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Hi everyone.

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And greetings from
Portland, Oregon.

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Thank you so much
for joining us

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this evening for
this video lecture

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sponsored by the
friends of history

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and the Department
of History

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at Portland State
University.

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My name is John Ott.

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I'm the chair of
that department

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and I'm pleased

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to welcome people from all

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over the state of Oregon,

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the Pacific Northwest,
and beyond.

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Portland State is a large,

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diverse and
vibrant university

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located in the heart
of downtown Portland.

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We are fortunate to have

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an equally vibrant
department,

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which is home to
20 faculty and

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roughly 250 majors
and minors,

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as well as an outstanding

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cohort of masters
students.

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We hope you'll
take a moment

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and look us up online

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at pdx.edu slash history.

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Our tireless
departmental staff,

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Andrea Janda
and Jeff Brown,

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have helped coordinate
publicity for

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this event and manage
its transmission

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in coordination with
the Dean's office

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of the College of Liberal
Arts and Sciences.

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They have made it
possible to share

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this talk with a
large audience.

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It is being recorded and

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we hope to post
the recording on

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the department website

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soon after its conclusion.

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Tonight's talk will last

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approximately 45
minutes and will be

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followed by a
moderated Q&A period

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lasting about 15
to 20 minutes,

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we should wrap up
about 615 or so.

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If you have a question
for our speaker,

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you can put it
at anytime into

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the Q and A
function of zoom.

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Note that the Q
and A function

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is not the same as
the chat function.

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In the Q and A function,

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you can also like
questions others

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have asked and effectively

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push them up the queue.

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I hope we'll get,

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and I'm sure we'll

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get many interesting
questions

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tonight for our speaker.

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Will get to as
many of them

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as we can in the
time that we have.

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So with that, I will turn

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the video over
to John Stephens,

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the president of

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the PSU History
Department,

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friends of history.

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John.

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Thank you, John, on behalf

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of the PSU's friends
of history,

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I'd like to welcome you to

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Professor Harold Cook's
lecture movements

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of Chinese medicine and
the first global age.

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We're very excited
to have him

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here with us
and we are also

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glad to have all
of you with us

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here today as well.

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Prince of history at PSU

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has been around
for decades,

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but it experienced
to rebirth

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in 2012 as a result of

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faculty efforts and
particularly the vision

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of professor can rough.

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Friends of history
has been sponsored,

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has sponsored over 25
lectures like this one.

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And I should, this is

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our third of
four this year.

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And our fourth one is
going to be May 12th.

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And that will be the
rise and fall of

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classical themes
and sacred band.

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And that will be
Professor James wrong

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from, from Bard College.

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I hope you'll
be able to join

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us for that one as well.

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In addition to funding

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lectures like this one.

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And we also help fund
faculty run colloquia,

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faculty and
student research

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and travel and
other assistance.

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Our goal is to promote

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excellence in teaching
and the study of

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history and to share
the universities

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collective
historical knowledge

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with the wider community.

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We'd love to have
you as a member

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if you aren't
already joined,

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go to the History
department webs site.

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Click on the Friends
of history at the top,

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click on Join FOH,

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scroll down and select
the appropriate form.

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With that, I'll
turn things over

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to Professor
Richard bile or who

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will give Professor

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Cook a proper
introduction.

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Thank you.

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Yes, Good evening
everyone.

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We're very pleased to have

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with us this evening.

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Professor how Cook.

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He's the John Nichols
Professor of History at

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Brown University
and before

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that taught at Wisconsin,

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Harvard University
College, London,

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where he was also
the director of

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the wireless Trust Center

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for history of medicine.

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And to kind of, I think

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a good overview of his
work I can give by

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reading some of the titles

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of monographs and
edited volumes.

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And you'll see the
themes emerging.

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Trials of an
ordinary doctor,

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you're honest,
grew and developed

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in 17th century London.

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Matters of exchange,

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commerce, medicine
and science,

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and the Dutch golden age,

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which won the
prize or award in

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the history of science
society in 2009.

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Another reason to
be grateful to

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Pfizer are appreciative
of their work.

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As some of us have

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personal notions of
that these days.

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Global movements,
local concerns,

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medicine and health
and Southeast Asia.

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Assessing the truth,
correspondents

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and information at the
end of the Golden Age.

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Ways of making and knowing

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the material culture of
empirical knowledge.

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The young Descartes,
nobility, rumor and war,

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which kind of reads
like a detective story.

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In some ways, I
had no idea that

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young Descartes's
life was so wash

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buckling and

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most recently
translation at work,

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Chinese medicine in
the first golden age.

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And in these titles
you see a couple

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of themes that have

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really been motivating
the history

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of science field in

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the last few years in

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which Professor Cook
has been a pioneer.

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And I can sum
them up with it

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titled another
article of his

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moving about and
finding things out.

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Moving about.

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Knowledge production
in movement,

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in motion, in migration
and border crossing.

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In the context of

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colonialism and
empire building.

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In the context
of translation.

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And the thickness of

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the material culture of
knowledge production.

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And the way that
it's embedded

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in trade, money,
capitalism,

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commerce, and the sort of

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ordinary material
life that

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all of us experience.

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So I think that's

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a general picture
of his work.

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And this evening,
as we heard,

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were going to be
hearing about

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movements of
Chinese medicine,

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the first global age.

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Thank you so
much. Let me just

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first try to share
my screen here.

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And to make sure
that that's working.

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That's working. All right.

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You can see the slides.

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Okay. So first of all,

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thank you very
much for the honor

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of inviting me here.

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Some of you may
know that I have

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some family and in

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the Portland area
and my mother

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was there until
she had recently,

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but I know that

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some members of
the Friends of

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history were friends
of hers too.

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And so it's a
particular honor,

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but personal honor to

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be with all of you
today and thank you so

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much for that very kind
introduction where

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you captured

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my interests much
better than I

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could capture that
myself, I think so.

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I appreciate that. Let me

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begin by saying that

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I never quite know

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who's in the audience
these days with Zoom,

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but I'm sure that

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some of you may be
here because of

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your personal
interest in what is

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now commonly
call traditional

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Chinese medicine,

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or TCM for short.

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It's an important
part of the range

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of medical practices on

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offer today in
the United States

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and elsewhere
in the world.

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It's often called an
alternative medicine,

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medical practice or
a complimentary one,

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which implicitly
identifies biomedicine

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as the norm by

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which other medical
ways are judged.

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But you will also find

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traditional
Chinese medicine

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being practiced just about

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everywhere in the world as

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a method of
understanding nature

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and the body in a way that

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creates some frictions
with biomedicine.

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In a moment, I
will tell you

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a bit about how
something similar

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was happening even in
the first global age,

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in the 16th and
17th centuries.

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But given the variety
of backgrounds that

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audiences for this
subject bring with them,

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let me begin with a
few preliminaries

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about more recent
events before

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I return for
further back in

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time for some of
those earlier echoes.

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For most of us,

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the word traditional
hearkens

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back to a time
immemorial when

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our ancestors
formulated ways of

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life and thought
that were robust

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enough to be handed down

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to generations
like our own.

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But traditions have
been invented to.

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As a historian, I

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remember how the
invention of

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tradition came into
view for me anyway,

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when a distinguished
British historian,

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Eric Hobsbawm
made the point

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that Scottish
Highland traditions,

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as they were called,

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had been established
in the 19th century.

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A famous example being
that development

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of the clan
patterns on kills.

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And in a volume that
he, there we go, good.

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In a volume he edited
with Terence Ranger.

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Other historians also
drew attention to how

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British royal rituals were

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elaborated in the 19th
and 20th centuries.

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Imperial rituals in
British India and

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Africa were
invented all the

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way to more recent
attempts to

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develop counter traditions
like folk music.

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I say this not to

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mock any so-called
tradition,

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only to note
that traditions

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which seemed
timeless sometimes

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actually have
histories and many

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of them have emerged.

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More recently than
we expect when we

272
00:10:29,629 --> 00:10:31,100
consider the
many traditional

273
00:10:31,100 --> 00:10:32,255
medical practices

274
00:10:32,255 --> 00:10:34,370
that exist all
over the globe.

275
00:10:34,370 --> 00:10:36,090
Therefore.

276
00:10:38,080 --> 00:10:40,310
Great. Okay, I'm

277
00:10:40,310 --> 00:10:42,390
going to click
on the screens.

278
00:10:42,400 --> 00:10:46,220
It may be worth
pointing out that

279
00:10:46,220 --> 00:10:49,325
that term,
traditional medicine,

280
00:10:49,325 --> 00:10:51,530
was recognized
only as recently

281
00:10:51,530 --> 00:10:53,810
as 970 eight went to

282
00:10:53,810 --> 00:10:55,910
WHO conference was held in

283
00:10:55,910 --> 00:10:58,729
Alma Ata in Kazakhstan.

284
00:10:58,729 --> 00:11:01,804
Before then, we
had folk medicine.

285
00:11:01,804 --> 00:11:04,729
There was unscientific
or quack medicine.

286
00:11:04,729 --> 00:11:08,330
There was non-Western
medicine, so forth.

287
00:11:08,330 --> 00:11:11,149
But you'll see where
I'm going with this.

288
00:11:11,149 --> 00:11:12,860
What we now call
traditional

289
00:11:12,860 --> 00:11:15,589
Chinese medicine, or TCM,

290
00:11:15,589 --> 00:11:16,969
is part of an ever

291
00:11:16,969 --> 00:11:19,445
changing medical
landscape,

292
00:11:19,445 --> 00:11:21,424
appearing in
different forms,

293
00:11:21,424 --> 00:11:24,680
in different moments,
in different places.

294
00:11:24,680 --> 00:11:27,259
I'm persuaded by
the argument of

295
00:11:27,259 --> 00:11:31,745
chon C. I'm Lynn lays
relatively recent book,

296
00:11:31,745 --> 00:11:33,679
neither donkey nor horse

297
00:11:33,679 --> 00:11:35,060
medicine in the struggle

298
00:11:35,060 --> 00:11:37,069
over China's modernity

299
00:11:37,069 --> 00:11:40,249
that earlier
versions of TCM were

300
00:11:40,249 --> 00:11:43,040
formulated by medical
practitioners in

301
00:11:43,040 --> 00:11:46,610
China as a response
to the efforts being

302
00:11:46,610 --> 00:11:47,839
made by the late imperial

303
00:11:47,839 --> 00:11:49,295
and Republican governments

304
00:11:49,295 --> 00:11:51,019
to modernize the country.

305
00:11:51,019 --> 00:11:52,820
Those modernizing efforts

306
00:11:52,820 --> 00:11:53,990
included support for

307
00:11:53,990 --> 00:11:56,074
the kinds of public
health measures,

308
00:11:56,074 --> 00:11:57,500
laboratory research,

309
00:11:57,500 --> 00:12:00,799
hospital infrastructure,
educational reforms,

310
00:12:00,799 --> 00:12:02,704
professional
qualifications,

311
00:12:02,704 --> 00:12:03,620
all those things that we

312
00:12:03,620 --> 00:12:05,569
now associate
with biomedicine.

313
00:12:05,569 --> 00:12:09,470
So as the Chinese
government began to give

314
00:12:09,470 --> 00:12:11,450
advantages to
those modern kinds

315
00:12:11,450 --> 00:12:13,355
of activities and
practitioners.

316
00:12:13,355 --> 00:12:15,499
Many of the people who
had been brought up

317
00:12:15,499 --> 00:12:17,449
in other medical ways and

318
00:12:17,449 --> 00:12:19,160
lineages began to

319
00:12:19,160 --> 00:12:21,544
organize themselves
in response.

320
00:12:21,544 --> 00:12:23,599
In the course of
which they had

321
00:12:23,599 --> 00:12:25,759
to gather together they're

322
00:12:25,759 --> 00:12:29,360
common principles
and practices into

323
00:12:29,360 --> 00:12:32,690
a grouping that today

324
00:12:32,690 --> 00:12:35,030
we would call a
medical system.

325
00:12:35,030 --> 00:12:37,655
Which was extremely
difficult

326
00:12:37,655 --> 00:12:39,529
given the wide variety
of practices and

327
00:12:39,529 --> 00:12:42,260
views among the
practitioners of

328
00:12:42,260 --> 00:12:47,610
such a diverse place as
the region of China.

329
00:12:47,740 --> 00:12:51,260
Some of those
same processes

330
00:12:51,260 --> 00:12:53,750
can be observed all
over the globe.

331
00:12:53,750 --> 00:12:56,284
In the late 19th,
early 20th century.

332
00:12:56,284 --> 00:12:58,219
In South Asia,
for example,

333
00:12:58,219 --> 00:13:01,159
historians like
Kavita, Shiva,

334
00:13:01,159 --> 00:13:03,874
Rama Krishna on guy
add to our project.

335
00:13:03,874 --> 00:13:06,814
Mukherjee and
others have noted

336
00:13:06,814 --> 00:13:08,690
how in order
to stand up to

337
00:13:08,690 --> 00:13:10,609
the medical ways
of the British,

338
00:13:10,609 --> 00:13:12,230
are you beta and you

339
00:13:12,230 --> 00:13:15,770
90 tip where redefined
by their practitioners

340
00:13:15,770 --> 00:13:18,830
into coherent medical
systems rather than

341
00:13:18,830 --> 00:13:20,779
adaptable repositories

342
00:13:20,779 --> 00:13:22,399
of multifarious
intellectual,

343
00:13:22,399 --> 00:13:24,995
spiritual, and
material resources.

344
00:13:24,995 --> 00:13:26,689
Other historians of

345
00:13:26,689 --> 00:13:28,910
recent Chinese
medical history,

346
00:13:28,910 --> 00:13:31,310
like Kim Taylor and
vocal shied and

347
00:13:31,310 --> 00:13:33,979
also noted that in China,

348
00:13:33,979 --> 00:13:35,209
what became known as

349
00:13:35,209 --> 00:13:37,250
traditional Chinese
medicine got

350
00:13:37,250 --> 00:13:39,199
a further boost during

351
00:13:39,199 --> 00:13:41,285
the early years of the
People's Republic.

352
00:13:41,285 --> 00:13:42,770
When Chairman Mao, it's

353
00:13:42,770 --> 00:13:44,719
a tongue aim to establish

354
00:13:44,719 --> 00:13:46,640
the so-called
cooperation of

355
00:13:46,640 --> 00:13:49,319
Chinese and Western
medical doctors.

356
00:13:49,319 --> 00:13:52,284
In other words,
what we now call

357
00:13:52,284 --> 00:13:55,119
TCM has been shaped by

358
00:13:55,119 --> 00:13:56,560
the historical
experiences of

359
00:13:56,560 --> 00:13:57,580
people in China and

360
00:13:57,580 --> 00:14:00,490
elsewhere over
many generations,

361
00:14:00,490 --> 00:14:03,730
but particularly
recent ones.

362
00:14:03,730 --> 00:14:07,509
So the first thing many

363
00:14:07,509 --> 00:14:08,770
of us will think of

364
00:14:08,770 --> 00:14:10,720
today when we
hear that phrase,

365
00:14:10,720 --> 00:14:12,579
traditional
Chinese medicine,

366
00:14:12,579 --> 00:14:16,840
or TCM, is acupuncture.

367
00:14:16,840 --> 00:14:20,499
Clearly, this is because
of the way it was

368
00:14:20,499 --> 00:14:22,194
made known to
recent generations

369
00:14:22,194 --> 00:14:24,430
of white, middle-class
Americans.

370
00:14:24,430 --> 00:14:26,680
As some of you
will remember,

371
00:14:26,680 --> 00:14:29,184
in advance of President
Nixon's famous trip,

372
00:14:29,184 --> 00:14:32,174
trip to China in 1971,

373
00:14:32,174 --> 00:14:34,519
james Scotty Reston,

374
00:14:34,519 --> 00:14:36,589
reporter for the
New York Times,

375
00:14:36,589 --> 00:14:38,150
prepared to
cover the visit

376
00:14:38,150 --> 00:14:39,860
by traveling to Beijing,

377
00:14:39,860 --> 00:14:43,279
where he fell ill
with appendicitis.

378
00:14:43,279 --> 00:14:45,740
He was hospitalized
for surgery.

379
00:14:45,740 --> 00:14:49,054
And post operatively,
his pain was

380
00:14:49,054 --> 00:14:51,499
treated enlarge part with

381
00:14:51,499 --> 00:14:53,450
the application
of needles.

382
00:14:53,450 --> 00:14:55,865
And he thought
quite successfully

383
00:14:55,865 --> 00:14:58,009
his report about
his experience.

384
00:14:58,009 --> 00:14:59,060
And here I show the second

385
00:14:59,060 --> 00:15:00,140
page of that report in

386
00:15:00,140 --> 00:15:01,340
the New York Times
just because it's

387
00:15:01,340 --> 00:15:03,664
got the photograph
to go with it.

388
00:15:03,664 --> 00:15:06,379
His report about
that experience

389
00:15:06,379 --> 00:15:07,580
in the Times created

390
00:15:07,580 --> 00:15:08,960
a wave of publicity about

391
00:15:08,960 --> 00:15:11,839
the mysterious powers
of acupuncture.

392
00:15:11,839 --> 00:15:13,910
Many studies
were launched to

393
00:15:13,910 --> 00:15:15,650
examine the pain
relieving effects

394
00:15:15,650 --> 00:15:18,559
of acupuncture and
to investigate

395
00:15:18,559 --> 00:15:20,344
whether it
offered benefits

396
00:15:20,344 --> 00:15:22,399
in other conditions
as well.

397
00:15:22,399 --> 00:15:25,054
New clinics put down
roots in Germany,

398
00:15:25,054 --> 00:15:28,009
the United States, and
many other countries.

399
00:15:28,009 --> 00:15:30,140
Growing public
interests further

400
00:15:30,140 --> 00:15:31,670
lead to the founding
of a number of

401
00:15:31,670 --> 00:15:33,229
formal schools
for teaching

402
00:15:33,229 --> 00:15:35,720
TCM and the formation
of a number of

403
00:15:35,720 --> 00:15:38,630
professional organizations
which supplemented

404
00:15:38,630 --> 00:15:40,009
the more informal Medical

405
00:15:40,009 --> 00:15:41,149
Group groupings that had

406
00:15:41,149 --> 00:15:44,615
arisen among practitioners
whose families

407
00:15:44,615 --> 00:15:48,395
heterogen originated
in East Asia.

408
00:15:48,395 --> 00:15:52,340
Now, given Scotty Reston
historical moment,

409
00:15:52,340 --> 00:15:55,010
TCM was often folded into

410
00:15:55,010 --> 00:15:58,250
the counterculture
of the day.

411
00:15:58,250 --> 00:15:59,480
That was thinking more

412
00:15:59,480 --> 00:16:02,240
holistic ways of
life and thought.

413
00:16:02,240 --> 00:16:04,519
That was especially
true because of

414
00:16:04,519 --> 00:16:06,785
the key term that began
to be talked about,

415
00:16:06,785 --> 00:16:08,329
which was used
to explain many

416
00:16:08,329 --> 00:16:09,769
phenomena embodies

417
00:16:09,769 --> 00:16:11,239
in the world
more generally,

418
00:16:11,239 --> 00:16:15,559
accompanying
TCM, key or key.

419
00:16:15,559 --> 00:16:18,410
It's often given as
simplified translation

420
00:16:18,410 --> 00:16:20,959
of vital energy or
something similar.

421
00:16:20,959 --> 00:16:22,730
At the same time,

422
00:16:22,730 --> 00:16:24,529
sentiment about
the mysteries

423
00:16:24,529 --> 00:16:26,075
of the real China

424
00:16:26,075 --> 00:16:27,889
continued to be shaped

425
00:16:27,889 --> 00:16:30,439
not only by Cold
War politics,

426
00:16:30,439 --> 00:16:32,030
but by the legacies

427
00:16:32,030 --> 00:16:33,589
of Christian missionaries,

428
00:16:33,589 --> 00:16:35,285
such as Perl bucks,

429
00:16:35,285 --> 00:16:37,639
the good earth,
published in 930 one,

430
00:16:37,639 --> 00:16:39,080
but still being what read

431
00:16:39,080 --> 00:16:41,435
widely in
following decades.

432
00:16:41,435 --> 00:16:43,819
I remember her
as an author

433
00:16:43,819 --> 00:16:46,730
admired by my mother,
for instance.

434
00:16:46,730 --> 00:16:49,354
Moreover, on
the West Coast,

435
00:16:49,354 --> 00:16:52,910
Taoism and Zen Buddhism
served to inspire

436
00:16:52,910 --> 00:16:55,370
the philosophy of
Alan Watts and

437
00:16:55,370 --> 00:16:58,414
the ecological poetry
of Gary Snyder.

438
00:16:58,414 --> 00:17:01,609
The poet Kenneth Rex Roth.

439
00:17:01,609 --> 00:17:03,200
On the left here, one of

440
00:17:03,200 --> 00:17:04,519
the founders of

441
00:17:04,519 --> 00:17:06,455
the San Francisco
Renaissance.

442
00:17:06,455 --> 00:17:08,435
Good friend of
Lawrence for length

443
00:17:08,435 --> 00:17:11,850
Getty who passed
away recently.

444
00:17:11,860 --> 00:17:14,915
Hey, Rex Roth took

445
00:17:14,915 --> 00:17:17,420
Chinese and Japanese
poetry to heart and

446
00:17:17,420 --> 00:17:20,314
translated some of
it into English.

447
00:17:20,314 --> 00:17:22,264
And let's not forget

448
00:17:22,264 --> 00:17:26,015
the popularity
of Li Zui phon,

449
00:17:26,015 --> 00:17:27,799
otherwise known
as Bruce Lee,

450
00:17:27,799 --> 00:17:29,810
who's advocacy of karate,

451
00:17:29,810 --> 00:17:31,834
also popularized
concepts like

452
00:17:31,834 --> 00:17:34,085
Yin and Yang and CI.

453
00:17:34,085 --> 00:17:36,859
And by the way,
I just recently

454
00:17:36,859 --> 00:17:39,440
found this nice summary of

455
00:17:39,440 --> 00:17:40,640
the history of acupuncture

456
00:17:40,640 --> 00:17:41,750
in the modern
United States

457
00:17:41,750 --> 00:17:44,390
that you can see in
that title here,

458
00:17:44,390 --> 00:17:46,055
which you can
probably read,

459
00:17:46,055 --> 00:17:48,110
identifies birth,

460
00:17:48,110 --> 00:17:49,549
a vacuum pump puncture,

461
00:17:49,549 --> 00:17:51,470
and then the Institute
for Taoist Studies

462
00:17:51,470 --> 00:17:52,880
in the national
acupuncture.

463
00:17:52,880 --> 00:17:56,195
So, so acupuncture
and Daoism,

464
00:17:56,195 --> 00:17:58,264
that's where I'm
going with this,

465
00:17:58,264 --> 00:18:01,950
not just for the
medical practices.

466
00:18:01,960 --> 00:18:05,419
So for many Americans,

467
00:18:05,419 --> 00:18:07,820
acupuncture was not
associated with

468
00:18:07,820 --> 00:18:09,559
the so-called China towns

469
00:18:09,559 --> 00:18:10,999
of their own cities,

470
00:18:10,999 --> 00:18:12,710
but with echoes of

471
00:18:12,710 --> 00:18:15,859
a formerly great and
mysterious civilization

472
00:18:15,859 --> 00:18:17,179
far away that

473
00:18:17,179 --> 00:18:18,710
continue to be admired

474
00:18:18,710 --> 00:18:20,449
in the counterculture for

475
00:18:20,449 --> 00:18:22,040
philosophy stemming

476
00:18:22,040 --> 00:18:24,420
from a pre-scientific age.

477
00:18:24,420 --> 00:18:28,224
Mao's Cultural
Revolution of 960,

478
00:18:28,224 --> 00:18:30,370
676 also made

479
00:18:30,370 --> 00:18:32,889
the barefoot
doctors famous

480
00:18:32,889 --> 00:18:34,900
and inspired young members

481
00:18:34,900 --> 00:18:36,699
of the American
counter-culture,

482
00:18:36,699 --> 00:18:38,589
like Ted catch up,

483
00:18:38,589 --> 00:18:40,389
a book he published
on the left.

484
00:18:40,389 --> 00:18:43,749
And then Ben Ski to the
two of them traveling

485
00:18:43,749 --> 00:18:45,279
together to East
Asia in search

486
00:18:45,279 --> 00:18:47,410
of an education in TCM,

487
00:18:47,410 --> 00:18:48,879
which in a period before

488
00:18:48,879 --> 00:18:51,460
the opening of the
People's Republic,

489
00:18:51,460 --> 00:18:54,969
they found that
teaching about in

490
00:18:54,969 --> 00:18:58,689
Macau than a colony
of Portugal.

491
00:18:58,689 --> 00:19:01,179
But also remember,
ted kept

492
00:19:01,179 --> 00:19:03,969
Chuck in the early
1980s speaking

493
00:19:03,969 --> 00:19:05,919
about the legislative
confusions

494
00:19:05,919 --> 00:19:07,894
in California
when the state

495
00:19:07,894 --> 00:19:10,174
attempted to regulate TCM

496
00:19:10,174 --> 00:19:11,899
almost immediately after

497
00:19:11,899 --> 00:19:14,030
the initial publicity,

498
00:19:14,030 --> 00:19:16,819
that is in Israeli is 972.

499
00:19:16,819 --> 00:19:19,129
The publicity in 1971,

500
00:19:19,129 --> 00:19:21,050
acupuncturist
were placed under

501
00:19:21,050 --> 00:19:22,549
the jurisdiction of

502
00:19:22,549 --> 00:19:24,424
the Board of
Medical Examiners,

503
00:19:24,424 --> 00:19:26,119
but no further agreement

504
00:19:26,119 --> 00:19:27,589
could be reached about

505
00:19:27,589 --> 00:19:29,509
co-constituted
the practitioners

506
00:19:29,509 --> 00:19:31,144
of TCM generally.

507
00:19:31,144 --> 00:19:35,210
So in 980, the decision
was made to grant to

508
00:19:35,210 --> 00:19:37,580
the acupuncturist
the ability

509
00:19:37,580 --> 00:19:39,875
to include in
their practices.

510
00:19:39,875 --> 00:19:42,844
And I'm quoting here,
electro acupuncture,

511
00:19:42,844 --> 00:19:44,615
cupping and moxibustion,

512
00:19:44,615 --> 00:19:48,814
and Asian massage,
exercise,

513
00:19:48,814 --> 00:19:51,860
and they call herbs
for nutrition.

514
00:19:51,860 --> 00:19:54,349
These were all put within

515
00:19:54,349 --> 00:19:58,025
the acupuncturist
scope of practice.

516
00:19:58,025 --> 00:20:02,390
Now, the most widespread
interest in TCM,

517
00:20:02,390 --> 00:20:03,830
United States,
and Europe was

518
00:20:03,830 --> 00:20:06,605
therefore quite
obviously acupuncture.

519
00:20:06,605 --> 00:20:09,590
But knowledge about
it was not as new as

520
00:20:09,590 --> 00:20:13,084
the story about Scotty
Reston would have it.

521
00:20:13,084 --> 00:20:14,690
There was already

522
00:20:14,690 --> 00:20:16,729
a medical and surgical
line of practicing it

523
00:20:16,729 --> 00:20:18,350
in Western medicine that

524
00:20:18,350 --> 00:20:20,660
went back to the
17th century.

525
00:20:20,660 --> 00:20:22,819
As Linda Barnes has shown,

526
00:20:22,819 --> 00:20:24,440
shadowy rumors about

527
00:20:24,440 --> 00:20:26,555
the Chinese use
of needling

528
00:20:26,555 --> 00:20:28,565
as a healing therapy

529
00:20:28,565 --> 00:20:30,860
had reached Europe
even earlier.

530
00:20:30,860 --> 00:20:33,364
But it was in 19, sorry,

531
00:20:33,364 --> 00:20:37,700
61683 when a
Dutch physician

532
00:20:37,700 --> 00:20:38,899
who had spent two years in

533
00:20:38,899 --> 00:20:40,909
Japan belonged to Ryan,

534
00:20:40,909 --> 00:20:43,864
I produced the first
real medical treatise

535
00:20:43,864 --> 00:20:47,179
on a subject for a
European audience.

536
00:20:47,179 --> 00:20:50,194
And his book publication.

537
00:20:50,194 --> 00:20:53,299
The district Tatyana,
are three-tiered.

538
00:20:53,299 --> 00:20:55,610
A part of it dealing with

539
00:20:55,610 --> 00:20:57,980
acupuncture was
underwritten by

540
00:20:57,980 --> 00:20:59,749
the Royal Society
of London,

541
00:20:59,749 --> 00:21:03,049
that famous early
scientific society.

542
00:21:03,049 --> 00:21:06,335
1009. It had
also encouraged

543
00:21:06,335 --> 00:21:08,150
a Dutch Reformed minister

544
00:21:08,150 --> 00:21:10,850
in Batavia, now Jakarta,

545
00:21:10,850 --> 00:21:12,800
the capital than
the capital

546
00:21:12,800 --> 00:21:14,720
of the Dutch East Indies,

547
00:21:14,720 --> 00:21:16,864
to publish on moxibustion,

548
00:21:16,864 --> 00:21:19,805
which he did,
although in Dutch.

549
00:21:19,805 --> 00:21:22,100
But that practice also

550
00:21:22,100 --> 00:21:26,194
found much interest
in Northern Europe,

551
00:21:26,194 --> 00:21:29,255
especially in Germanic
speaking lands.

552
00:21:29,255 --> 00:21:34,355
I've written more
about 10 Vajrayana,

553
00:21:34,355 --> 00:21:37,115
acupuncture and
moxibustion elsewhere.

554
00:21:37,115 --> 00:21:39,620
This is an example of
one of the diagrams

555
00:21:39,620 --> 00:21:43,310
included in his book
on acupuncture.

556
00:21:43,310 --> 00:21:46,789
And you can see some of
the meridian channels

557
00:21:46,789 --> 00:21:48,829
that he's,

558
00:21:48,829 --> 00:21:51,859
he's getting from his
sources in Japan.

559
00:21:51,859 --> 00:21:54,500
And this is, I just

560
00:21:54,500 --> 00:21:56,390
wanted to show you
this slide coming

561
00:21:56,390 --> 00:21:59,120
from some work published

562
00:21:59,120 --> 00:22:02,330
by Wolfgang gang Mikkel.

563
00:22:02,330 --> 00:22:05,690
It was a real expert
on 10 RNA and

564
00:22:05,690 --> 00:22:07,504
a Professor Emeritus of

565
00:22:07,504 --> 00:22:10,429
Kyoto University
in Fukuoka.

566
00:22:10,429 --> 00:22:13,549
The additional
studies of way you

567
00:22:13,549 --> 00:22:16,324
want one weighing TA1 and

568
00:22:16,324 --> 00:22:18,829
Margaret Garber appear in

569
00:22:18,829 --> 00:22:20,420
that edited collection on

570
00:22:20,420 --> 00:22:22,160
Chinese medicine that was

571
00:22:22,160 --> 00:22:25,500
mentioned briefly in
the introduction.

572
00:22:25,750 --> 00:22:29,389
The publicity
about acupuncture

573
00:22:29,389 --> 00:22:32,090
in the time lead to
brief fashion for

574
00:22:32,090 --> 00:22:34,910
acupuncture and moxibustion
as treatments for

575
00:22:34,910 --> 00:22:38,330
gout, particularly
in France.

576
00:22:38,330 --> 00:22:40,970
Saint Sebastian
martyred by

577
00:22:40,970 --> 00:22:42,320
being stuck
full of arrows,

578
00:22:42,320 --> 00:22:43,969
as you probably know,

579
00:22:43,969 --> 00:22:46,909
became the patron
saint for acupuncture.

580
00:22:46,909 --> 00:22:48,740
And the practice had

581
00:22:48,740 --> 00:22:50,960
a brief renewed
efflorescence.

582
00:22:50,960 --> 00:22:53,854
Efflorescence in the
mid 19th century

583
00:22:53,854 --> 00:22:55,655
in Europe and America to,

584
00:22:55,655 --> 00:22:59,160
before again going quiet.

585
00:22:59,160 --> 00:23:04,180
Now, the California
statute of 1980 also

586
00:23:04,180 --> 00:23:05,440
mentioned almost in

587
00:23:05,440 --> 00:23:08,380
passing herbs
for nutrition,

588
00:23:08,380 --> 00:23:10,329
as they said in
that statute,

589
00:23:10,329 --> 00:23:13,044
said to be would want to

590
00:23:13,044 --> 00:23:14,619
authorize nonmedical
people to

591
00:23:14,619 --> 00:23:16,809
be prescribing
medical drugs.

592
00:23:16,809 --> 00:23:18,519
So they're, they're,
they're described is

593
00:23:18,519 --> 00:23:20,860
for nutrition and soup

594
00:23:20,860 --> 00:23:23,770
therapies and other
kinds of medicines have

595
00:23:23,770 --> 00:23:24,789
long been associated with

596
00:23:24,789 --> 00:23:26,979
TCM in the minds
of many people.

597
00:23:26,979 --> 00:23:29,829
Also, again, the first
sustained period of

598
00:23:29,829 --> 00:23:34,060
contact with
East Asia shows

599
00:23:34,060 --> 00:23:35,739
excitement from

600
00:23:35,739 --> 00:23:37,900
European merchants
and physicians and

601
00:23:37,900 --> 00:23:39,895
other people about
their encounters

602
00:23:39,895 --> 00:23:42,754
with Chinese
pharmacy, botany.

603
00:23:42,754 --> 00:23:45,365
Perhaps one of the
most famous remedies

604
00:23:45,365 --> 00:23:48,560
from the region
was China root,

605
00:23:48,560 --> 00:23:50,465
a 19th century
illustration

606
00:23:50,465 --> 00:23:51,559
on your left there.

607
00:23:51,559 --> 00:23:54,290
It was imported in
large amounts in

608
00:23:54,290 --> 00:23:55,520
the 16th century through

609
00:23:55,520 --> 00:23:57,875
Portuguese connections,
mainly from Goa.

610
00:23:57,875 --> 00:23:59,870
And even prescribed for

611
00:23:59,870 --> 00:24:01,970
Emperor Charles
the fifth by

612
00:24:01,970 --> 00:24:04,759
the famous anatomist
and dress with sale

613
00:24:04,759 --> 00:24:06,649
is whose title page

614
00:24:06,649 --> 00:24:08,704
for his letter on
China route is there?

615
00:24:08,704 --> 00:24:11,670
In that Latin title page.

616
00:24:12,940 --> 00:24:15,349
Many historical
studies have

617
00:24:15,349 --> 00:24:17,060
therefore begun to explore

618
00:24:17,060 --> 00:24:18,290
the rich history
of Chinese

619
00:24:18,290 --> 00:24:20,434
pharmacy in recent years,

620
00:24:20,434 --> 00:24:21,829
from the likes of

621
00:24:21,829 --> 00:24:24,109
Paul uncial to the
more recent studies,

622
00:24:24,109 --> 00:24:27,665
NAT be, agile, young
and Ming Chan.

623
00:24:27,665 --> 00:24:30,350
Beatriz point a
balanced stereos.

624
00:24:30,350 --> 00:24:32,960
And hey, beyond.

625
00:24:32,960 --> 00:24:35,389
A recent penetrating study

626
00:24:35,389 --> 00:24:36,844
buying martyr
Hansen and Janet.

627
00:24:36,844 --> 00:24:39,560
Janet Parramatta
also examines

628
00:24:39,560 --> 00:24:41,840
a 17th century
translation of

629
00:24:41,840 --> 00:24:44,734
Chinese medical
recipes into Latin,

630
00:24:44,734 --> 00:24:46,699
pointing to the
many similarities

631
00:24:46,699 --> 00:24:48,425
in the descriptive
structures

632
00:24:48,425 --> 00:24:51,469
expected in the two
linguistic traditions

633
00:24:51,469 --> 00:24:53,945
that made that
translation possible.

634
00:24:53,945 --> 00:24:55,489
As well as pointing
out some of

635
00:24:55,489 --> 00:24:57,439
the differences
between them,

636
00:24:57,439 --> 00:24:59,000
such as the
verse form that

637
00:24:59,000 --> 00:25:02,029
many Asian recipes took.

638
00:25:02,029 --> 00:25:04,250
But for last few minutes

639
00:25:04,250 --> 00:25:06,109
of this formal
presentation,

640
00:25:06,109 --> 00:25:09,500
I want to return to
thinking further about

641
00:25:09,500 --> 00:25:11,719
yet another aspect
of the making of

642
00:25:11,719 --> 00:25:14,375
tradition in the
early modern period,

643
00:25:14,375 --> 00:25:15,889
which I think may
have something to

644
00:25:15,889 --> 00:25:17,329
do with the way
Europeans and

645
00:25:17,329 --> 00:25:20,074
European descended people
have interpreted in

646
00:25:20,074 --> 00:25:21,830
Chinese medicine as

647
00:25:21,830 --> 00:25:24,695
a hint about
ancient wisdom.

648
00:25:24,695 --> 00:25:26,630
The history of
medicine in China

649
00:25:26,630 --> 00:25:29,989
itself is not about
one line of thought,

650
00:25:29,989 --> 00:25:32,239
but a rich and
varied range

651
00:25:32,239 --> 00:25:34,310
of responses to
health and healing.

652
00:25:34,310 --> 00:25:35,689
Ranging from family and

653
00:25:35,689 --> 00:25:38,240
Village tradition's
to consultations

654
00:25:38,240 --> 00:25:40,325
with oracle bones and

655
00:25:40,325 --> 00:25:41,599
worries about
the dangerous

656
00:25:41,599 --> 00:25:43,234
interventions of ghosts,

657
00:25:43,234 --> 00:25:44,420
ancestors or

658
00:25:44,420 --> 00:25:47,630
personal rivals to
traveling medics.

659
00:25:47,630 --> 00:25:49,550
Rich history of
pharmaceuticals

660
00:25:49,550 --> 00:25:50,929
and other substances.

661
00:25:50,929 --> 00:25:53,690
To the earliest
evidence of alchemy,

662
00:25:53,690 --> 00:25:55,475
to the shifting diagnostic

663
00:25:55,475 --> 00:25:57,080
categories of
diseases from

664
00:25:57,080 --> 00:26:00,274
cold damage to warm
damage and on and on.

665
00:26:00,274 --> 00:26:01,700
There's obviously
a very rich

666
00:26:01,700 --> 00:26:03,259
history to the history of

667
00:26:03,259 --> 00:26:06,260
medicine anywhere in
the world and very,

668
00:26:06,260 --> 00:26:08,240
very well documented
in China.

669
00:26:08,240 --> 00:26:10,940
And quite diverse as well.

670
00:26:10,940 --> 00:26:14,224
It's quite fascinating.
In recent years.

671
00:26:14,224 --> 00:26:15,980
Many historians have also

672
00:26:15,980 --> 00:26:17,210
noted the presence in

673
00:26:17,210 --> 00:26:20,705
China of many aspects

674
00:26:20,705 --> 00:26:22,624
of the medicine of Persia,

675
00:26:22,624 --> 00:26:24,380
the medicine
of South Asia,

676
00:26:24,380 --> 00:26:26,210
and many other places too.

677
00:26:26,210 --> 00:26:27,649
While others have
written about

678
00:26:27,649 --> 00:26:29,809
how people in
nearby regions.

679
00:26:29,809 --> 00:26:31,549
Such as Korea, Japan,

680
00:26:31,549 --> 00:26:33,440
and Vietnam engaged with

681
00:26:33,440 --> 00:26:36,650
various elements of
Chinese medicine also.

682
00:26:36,650 --> 00:26:38,389
But if there is

683
00:26:38,389 --> 00:26:41,135
no single essence to
Chinese medicine,

684
00:26:41,135 --> 00:26:43,609
if it's diverse, why do

685
00:26:43,609 --> 00:26:46,460
we today see it as
a unified feel?

686
00:26:46,460 --> 00:26:50,884
Unified field is a style

687
00:26:50,884 --> 00:26:52,610
that we think of as

688
00:26:52,610 --> 00:26:56,510
a holistic alternative
to modern biomedicine.

689
00:26:56,510 --> 00:26:59,120
Obviously, that's
a huge question.

690
00:26:59,120 --> 00:27:01,504
But I want to draw
your attention

691
00:27:01,504 --> 00:27:03,020
as part of the answer to

692
00:27:03,020 --> 00:27:04,489
that only partial answer.

693
00:27:04,489 --> 00:27:05,660
But I want to draw
your attention

694
00:27:05,660 --> 00:27:09,200
to the aims of the
first translators of

695
00:27:09,200 --> 00:27:12,080
Chinese medical texts into

696
00:27:12,080 --> 00:27:17,000
the European scholarly
language of Latin.

697
00:27:17,000 --> 00:27:18,379
And they were

698
00:27:18,379 --> 00:27:22,775
Jesuit missionaries
working in China.

699
00:27:22,775 --> 00:27:28,475
Between 16711686.

700
00:27:28,475 --> 00:27:30,859
You can see three books
here that these are

701
00:27:30,859 --> 00:27:33,109
the three books of
the 17th century

702
00:27:33,109 --> 00:27:35,030
that introduced
European readers

703
00:27:35,030 --> 00:27:37,775
to the medical
ways of China.

704
00:27:37,775 --> 00:27:40,789
They all originated from
Jesuit missionaries

705
00:27:40,789 --> 00:27:43,579
working with literati
colleagues or pupil.

706
00:27:43,579 --> 00:27:46,759
We often, often now

707
00:27:46,759 --> 00:27:48,170
best referred
to as literati.

708
00:27:48,170 --> 00:27:52,605
But I grew up thinking
they were Mandarins.

709
00:27:52,605 --> 00:27:55,939
Case people working
for the civil service,

710
00:27:55,939 --> 00:27:57,995
very well educated
people who are

711
00:27:57,995 --> 00:28:01,829
in conversation
with the Jesuits.

712
00:28:02,500 --> 00:28:05,930
And some other Europeans
were involved in

713
00:28:05,930 --> 00:28:09,109
this translation project
to the new works

714
00:28:09,109 --> 00:28:10,969
gave substance to hints

715
00:28:10,969 --> 00:28:13,070
and rumors that
it's circulate for

716
00:28:13,070 --> 00:28:15,845
centuries about how
medical practitioners

717
00:28:15,845 --> 00:28:18,979
in the celestial
empire could interpret

718
00:28:18,979 --> 00:28:20,059
the living state of

719
00:28:20,059 --> 00:28:22,669
human bodies from
subtle movements

720
00:28:22,669 --> 00:28:24,260
and signs that were

721
00:28:24,260 --> 00:28:26,690
unknown to European
diagnosticians.

722
00:28:26,690 --> 00:28:27,950
Many of them felt

723
00:28:27,950 --> 00:28:30,709
at what we would
call the pulse.

724
00:28:30,709 --> 00:28:33,485
It is also
notable, however,

725
00:28:33,485 --> 00:28:35,509
the three medical
translations

726
00:28:35,509 --> 00:28:38,915
here and
commentaries on them

727
00:28:38,915 --> 00:28:42,020
appeared more or less
at the same time that

728
00:28:42,020 --> 00:28:44,270
Confucius is
being introduced

729
00:28:44,270 --> 00:28:46,429
to Europe in a
magnificently set,

730
00:28:46,429 --> 00:28:49,085
printed set of
translations that

731
00:28:49,085 --> 00:28:55,325
Confucius CRM
philosophies of 16 A7.

732
00:28:55,325 --> 00:28:57,574
And you'll see, I've,

733
00:28:57,574 --> 00:29:00,829
I've highlighted the name

734
00:29:00,829 --> 00:29:03,439
for the COO play
who's associated both

735
00:29:03,439 --> 00:29:06,650
with one of those so-called
medical works and

736
00:29:06,650 --> 00:29:13,895
the Confucius
translation could play,

737
00:29:13,895 --> 00:29:15,769
had returned to Europe,

738
00:29:15,769 --> 00:29:17,600
defend the Jesuit
mission in

739
00:29:17,600 --> 00:29:19,159
the various
deliberations going

740
00:29:19,159 --> 00:29:21,124
on about it in Rome
and elsewhere,

741
00:29:21,124 --> 00:29:24,544
which at the time
threatened its activities.

742
00:29:24,544 --> 00:29:26,390
And he brought back with

743
00:29:26,390 --> 00:29:28,160
him the Latin version of

744
00:29:28,160 --> 00:29:30,650
Confucius and at least one

745
00:29:30,650 --> 00:29:33,079
of these medical
translations.

746
00:29:33,079 --> 00:29:35,059
In other words,
I think that

747
00:29:35,059 --> 00:29:38,750
Chinese medicine at that
time, 17th century,

748
00:29:38,750 --> 00:29:40,640
was being introduced as

749
00:29:40,640 --> 00:29:43,009
a companion project
to the efforts of

750
00:29:43,009 --> 00:29:44,795
the Jesuits to convince

751
00:29:44,795 --> 00:29:47,495
European audiences
of the importance

752
00:29:47,495 --> 00:29:48,995
of what they were
doing China,

753
00:29:48,995 --> 00:29:51,800
largely because
of their interest

754
00:29:51,800 --> 00:29:54,440
in what we might call
Chinese philosophy.

755
00:29:54,440 --> 00:29:57,095
And that project
helps to explain

756
00:29:57,095 --> 00:30:00,019
why they selected certain
medical works for

757
00:30:00,019 --> 00:30:02,749
translation rather
than other works

758
00:30:02,749 --> 00:30:06,409
that they might have
chosen for that process.

759
00:30:06,409 --> 00:30:08,899
So the medical
texts sent to

760
00:30:08,899 --> 00:30:10,969
Europe can
therefore be best

761
00:30:10,969 --> 00:30:12,860
understood as

762
00:30:12,860 --> 00:30:14,405
revealing the ancient

763
00:30:14,405 --> 00:30:16,294
natural philosophy
of China,

764
00:30:16,294 --> 00:30:17,750
which expanded on

765
00:30:17,750 --> 00:30:20,614
the understanding of
Confucian ethics.

766
00:30:20,614 --> 00:30:25,040
The Jesuit missionaries
presume that both,

767
00:30:25,040 --> 00:30:28,040
let's call it Natural
Philosophy in China

768
00:30:28,040 --> 00:30:33,559
and moral philosophy
of Confucius.

769
00:30:33,559 --> 00:30:37,190
That they presumed that
both were examples of

770
00:30:37,190 --> 00:30:39,799
an original
intuition about

771
00:30:39,799 --> 00:30:41,884
the true shape
of the universe.

772
00:30:41,884 --> 00:30:45,305
Indeed, at that moment,
the term right,

773
00:30:45,305 --> 00:30:47,525
reason had a
technical meaning

774
00:30:47,525 --> 00:30:48,980
in European philosophy.

775
00:30:48,980 --> 00:30:50,359
It met the
understanding that

776
00:30:50,359 --> 00:30:52,729
flowed from the
single logos.

777
00:30:52,729 --> 00:30:55,654
Greek term, the logos

778
00:30:55,654 --> 00:30:57,829
that ordered all
of creation.

779
00:30:57,829 --> 00:30:59,509
To simplify.

780
00:30:59,509 --> 00:31:02,675
The logos is a statement
that has meaning.

781
00:31:02,675 --> 00:31:05,849
It has meaning
because it's orderly.

782
00:31:07,450 --> 00:31:10,700
Logos is translated in

783
00:31:10,700 --> 00:31:12,049
the King James version of

784
00:31:12,049 --> 00:31:14,659
the New Testament as word,

785
00:31:14,659 --> 00:31:16,460
as in the famous
passage in

786
00:31:16,460 --> 00:31:18,904
the beginning was
the word I E,

787
00:31:18,904 --> 00:31:20,584
In the beginning
was the Logos.

788
00:31:20,584 --> 00:31:22,730
These days, we
might associate

789
00:31:22,730 --> 00:31:25,145
the word logos with logic,

790
00:31:25,145 --> 00:31:27,665
or all those subjects
that end in ology,

791
00:31:27,665 --> 00:31:29,239
which imply subject based

792
00:31:29,239 --> 00:31:31,234
on natural law and reason.

793
00:31:31,234 --> 00:31:33,379
But for the early Jesuits

794
00:31:33,379 --> 00:31:34,564
and their contemporaries,

795
00:31:34,564 --> 00:31:37,879
logos implied more than
the laws of nature.

796
00:31:37,879 --> 00:31:41,690
Since as the original
source of all meaning,

797
00:31:41,690 --> 00:31:45,485
the logos was also the
source of all truth.

798
00:31:45,485 --> 00:31:48,620
And it gave solid
foundation to

799
00:31:48,620 --> 00:31:50,014
moral philosophy

800
00:31:50,014 --> 00:31:52,954
as well as natural
philosophy.

801
00:31:52,954 --> 00:31:55,700
At the time.
However, there were

802
00:31:55,700 --> 00:31:58,040
philosophers like
Thomas Hobbes

803
00:31:58,040 --> 00:32:00,319
who rejected right
reason in favor of

804
00:32:00,319 --> 00:32:03,064
reasoning rightly or
reasoning correctly.

805
00:32:03,064 --> 00:32:03,949
In other words.

806
00:32:03,949 --> 00:32:06,829
Hobbes in his like,
we're proposing,

807
00:32:06,829 --> 00:32:08,630
that all knowledge
came not from

808
00:32:08,630 --> 00:32:11,389
any innate intuition
of the logos,

809
00:32:11,389 --> 00:32:13,790
but from what our five
senses told us about

810
00:32:13,790 --> 00:32:15,259
the material world and

811
00:32:15,259 --> 00:32:17,795
the application of
proper reasoning to it.

812
00:32:17,795 --> 00:32:19,879
Put another way for

813
00:32:19,879 --> 00:32:21,875
the hobbes is
of the world.

814
00:32:21,875 --> 00:32:25,145
Moral philosophy had
to be naturalized,

815
00:32:25,145 --> 00:32:26,780
rooted in what we
would now call

816
00:32:26,780 --> 00:32:28,790
the sciences and
laws of nature.

817
00:32:28,790 --> 00:32:30,229
Things that you
would today

818
00:32:30,229 --> 00:32:32,940
see in bookstores.

819
00:32:34,360 --> 00:32:38,000
The evolution of ethics,

820
00:32:38,000 --> 00:32:39,335
those sorts of things that

821
00:32:39,335 --> 00:32:42,079
an evolutionary view
or a genetic view,

822
00:32:42,079 --> 00:32:45,020
or a neurological
view might help us

823
00:32:45,020 --> 00:32:46,489
understand why

824
00:32:46,489 --> 00:32:48,695
humans behave in
the way we do,

825
00:32:48,695 --> 00:32:51,425
which is a naturalistic
way of understanding.

826
00:32:51,425 --> 00:32:53,360
What used to be called
moral philosophy

827
00:32:53,360 --> 00:32:54,560
is not the same
thing obviously,

828
00:32:54,560 --> 00:32:58,820
but so naturalize in
moral philosophy is

829
00:32:58,820 --> 00:33:00,440
what many people in

830
00:33:00,440 --> 00:33:03,559
the 17th century were
certainly after.

831
00:33:03,559 --> 00:33:07,370
But that is not the
intuitive or revel,

832
00:33:07,370 --> 00:33:08,569
a toy grasp of

833
00:33:08,569 --> 00:33:11,360
the rightness of the
living universe.

834
00:33:11,360 --> 00:33:13,370
For the Jesuits,

835
00:33:13,370 --> 00:33:15,590
the ancient natural
revolution,

836
00:33:15,590 --> 00:33:18,080
revelation that they
thought they had

837
00:33:18,080 --> 00:33:20,795
found granted to China.

838
00:33:20,795 --> 00:33:23,795
And that was kept alive
over the centuries.

839
00:33:23,795 --> 00:33:25,999
Meant that the
empire needed

840
00:33:25,999 --> 00:33:28,189
only the little addition
of a tincture of

841
00:33:28,189 --> 00:33:30,950
the more modern
revelation of Christ to

842
00:33:30,950 --> 00:33:32,209
see the full light

843
00:33:32,209 --> 00:33:34,039
enjoying the
universal church.

844
00:33:34,039 --> 00:33:35,210
So this is also part

845
00:33:35,210 --> 00:33:37,429
of their missionary
efforts.

846
00:33:37,429 --> 00:33:41,120
So to come back to
that confusion and

847
00:33:41,120 --> 00:33:44,374
medical texts
for the Jesuits,

848
00:33:44,374 --> 00:33:47,240
they together
represented confirmation

849
00:33:47,240 --> 00:33:50,449
from a distance but rich
and powerful empire.

850
00:33:50,449 --> 00:33:53,060
That other
philosophical systems

851
00:33:53,060 --> 00:33:56,104
also crest the true logos,

852
00:33:56,104 --> 00:33:58,489
which was granted
to humans not long

853
00:33:58,489 --> 00:34:03,020
after they were put on
earth by the Creator.

854
00:34:03,020 --> 00:34:06,125
Human health and illness

855
00:34:06,125 --> 00:34:08,345
cannot therefore
be explained,

856
00:34:08,345 --> 00:34:11,855
explained by physical
analysis alone.

857
00:34:11,855 --> 00:34:14,029
And this is subtle phys,

858
00:34:14,029 --> 00:34:16,895
physical analysis of
the Chinese doctors

859
00:34:16,895 --> 00:34:20,450
looking for something
further out there,

860
00:34:20,450 --> 00:34:24,020
you might say then
just touching is

861
00:34:24,020 --> 00:34:26,000
what is so
intriguing about

862
00:34:26,000 --> 00:34:28,489
the pulse diagnosis
that as we call it,

863
00:34:28,489 --> 00:34:30,200
which you'll see here

864
00:34:30,200 --> 00:34:32,239
in these, these
representations.

865
00:34:32,239 --> 00:34:35,720
And that view that
Chinese medicine was

866
00:34:35,720 --> 00:34:37,609
more than just a set of

867
00:34:37,609 --> 00:34:40,140
techniques or
physical methods.

868
00:34:40,140 --> 00:34:42,940
I would even
be advanced in

869
00:34:42,940 --> 00:34:44,590
the greatest work of
the Enlightenment,

870
00:34:44,590 --> 00:34:45,925
the Encyclopedie.

871
00:34:45,925 --> 00:34:47,769
And I'll mention that in

872
00:34:47,769 --> 00:34:50,184
slightly more detail
just a second.

873
00:34:50,184 --> 00:34:52,510
One other wrinkle
should be

874
00:34:52,510 --> 00:34:55,029
added to the reasons
why the Jesuits might

875
00:34:55,029 --> 00:34:56,109
have been willing
to go through

876
00:34:56,109 --> 00:34:58,030
the enormous difficulties
of translating

877
00:34:58,030 --> 00:35:00,294
selected Chinese
medical texts

878
00:35:00,294 --> 00:35:02,709
for European audience.

879
00:35:02,709 --> 00:35:06,129
They chose to translate
passages from one of

880
00:35:06,129 --> 00:35:07,659
the chief medical works

881
00:35:07,659 --> 00:35:10,734
applauded by their
literati counterparts.

882
00:35:10,734 --> 00:35:13,210
The Huang Di Nei Jing.

883
00:35:13,210 --> 00:35:17,439
The Huangdi is often

884
00:35:17,439 --> 00:35:20,110
translated into English as

885
00:35:20,110 --> 00:35:22,619
under the title The
Yellow Emperors,

886
00:35:22,619 --> 00:35:25,430
a classic of
Internal Medicine.

887
00:35:25,430 --> 00:35:27,154
I want to point out,

888
00:35:27,154 --> 00:35:30,350
particularly given
racist incidents of

889
00:35:30,350 --> 00:35:34,849
recent weeks and months,

890
00:35:34,849 --> 00:35:37,729
that yellow here has

891
00:35:37,729 --> 00:35:40,369
nothing to do with modern
racial categories.

892
00:35:40,369 --> 00:35:45,455
Yellow is the color
of the imperial,

893
00:35:45,455 --> 00:35:46,940
of the empire
and the imperial

894
00:35:46,940 --> 00:35:48,320
robes were in yellow.

895
00:35:48,320 --> 00:35:50,675
So the Yellow Emperor,
the first emperor.

896
00:35:50,675 --> 00:35:52,130
So this is his,

897
00:35:52,130 --> 00:35:54,289
the First
Emperor's classic

898
00:35:54,289 --> 00:35:55,609
of Internal Medicine,

899
00:35:55,609 --> 00:35:58,279
is how we would
translate it.

900
00:35:58,279 --> 00:36:02,945
And it itself offered
proof of a kind of

901
00:36:02,945 --> 00:36:04,894
ancient natural revelation

902
00:36:04,894 --> 00:36:07,115
is imparted to China.

903
00:36:07,115 --> 00:36:09,440
In other words, if
you are looking for

904
00:36:09,440 --> 00:36:10,610
the historical source of

905
00:36:10,610 --> 00:36:12,980
natural revelation
in China,

906
00:36:12,980 --> 00:36:14,705
as the Jesuits were,

907
00:36:14,705 --> 00:36:17,929
you would turn to
the ancient animals

908
00:36:17,929 --> 00:36:21,784
going back to the
early periods of,

909
00:36:21,784 --> 00:36:24,334
of China looking for
that first revelation.

910
00:36:24,334 --> 00:36:25,880
And there you would find

911
00:36:25,880 --> 00:36:27,559
the first emperor,
Huang-di.

912
00:36:27,559 --> 00:36:30,065
And he had also become

913
00:36:30,065 --> 00:36:32,900
a medical author as
we call them today.

914
00:36:32,900 --> 00:36:34,730
So let me offer an example

915
00:36:34,730 --> 00:36:36,259
that might tie together

916
00:36:36,259 --> 00:36:38,374
these kinds of
abstractions.

917
00:36:38,374 --> 00:36:40,174
Little bit further.

918
00:36:40,174 --> 00:36:42,185
Talking just briefly
about Phillipe,

919
00:36:42,185 --> 00:36:43,970
who play the editor of

920
00:36:43,970 --> 00:36:46,070
the works, both
of Confucius.

921
00:36:46,070 --> 00:36:49,940
I've Huang-di could play
it been a student at

922
00:36:49,940 --> 00:36:51,784
the University of Louvain

923
00:36:51,784 --> 00:36:53,810
in what's now Belgium.

924
00:36:53,810 --> 00:36:56,974
When he was inspired
by a lecture given by

925
00:36:56,974 --> 00:36:59,209
a recently returned
pro curator

926
00:36:59,209 --> 00:37:00,290
of the Jesuit mission.

927
00:37:00,290 --> 00:37:01,580
This, this kind
of chief of

928
00:37:01,580 --> 00:37:04,220
the Jesuit mission
sent back to Europe

929
00:37:04,220 --> 00:37:05,885
from time to time to

930
00:37:05,885 --> 00:37:08,960
always a different person
to deal with Rome.

931
00:37:08,960 --> 00:37:11,419
And the Pope
curator that he

932
00:37:11,419 --> 00:37:15,719
heard at the university
was Martin Martini.

933
00:37:16,540 --> 00:37:19,984
Martini became widely
known in Europe,

934
00:37:19,984 --> 00:37:21,455
not only for publishing

935
00:37:21,455 --> 00:37:24,055
an atlas of China,
all these maps.

936
00:37:24,055 --> 00:37:27,075
For his study of
Chinese chronology,

937
00:37:27,075 --> 00:37:29,834
along with
another student,

938
00:37:29,834 --> 00:37:31,695
Francois to Rouge mole,

939
00:37:31,695 --> 00:37:34,919
Cu play embarked on

940
00:37:34,919 --> 00:37:36,599
the process of following

941
00:37:36,599 --> 00:37:38,354
in martini his footsteps.

942
00:37:38,354 --> 00:37:41,459
He obviously
taken with what

943
00:37:41,459 --> 00:37:45,209
my team was saying
about the mission to.

944
00:37:45,209 --> 00:37:49,110
So Cu plate enters

945
00:37:49,110 --> 00:37:50,790
becoming a
missionary himself

946
00:37:50,790 --> 00:37:53,039
along with a fellow
student who's wrong.

947
00:37:53,039 --> 00:37:58,995
He embarks from
Lisbon in 656,

948
00:37:58,995 --> 00:38:00,600
travels with
rouge wall and

949
00:38:00,600 --> 00:38:02,819
a few other novices
sailing for us to

950
00:38:02,819 --> 00:38:08,015
go around africa and
then on to Macau.

951
00:38:08,015 --> 00:38:09,650
For most of the
journey, he was

952
00:38:09,650 --> 00:38:10,939
an accompany of an older

953
00:38:10,939 --> 00:38:12,409
member of the society,

954
00:38:12,409 --> 00:38:14,240
my Michael Boyle, who

955
00:38:14,240 --> 00:38:16,654
originated in what's
now the Ukraine,

956
00:38:16,654 --> 00:38:20,974
who was returning
to China after

957
00:38:20,974 --> 00:38:23,180
his own mission
back to Europe on

958
00:38:23,180 --> 00:38:25,595
behalf of the last
Ming emperor,

959
00:38:25,595 --> 00:38:28,039
who had been fighting
the last losing battles

960
00:38:28,039 --> 00:38:30,499
against the new group,

961
00:38:30,499 --> 00:38:32,629
the Manchus who
took over China as

962
00:38:32,629 --> 00:38:35,720
the Qing dynasty
just at that time.

963
00:38:35,720 --> 00:38:38,180
And boys storage is
also quite interesting,

964
00:38:38,180 --> 00:38:39,724
but I'll leave it
aside for the moment.

965
00:38:39,724 --> 00:38:42,320
He had already been

966
00:38:42,320 --> 00:38:45,319
translating a text on
the pulse into Latin.

967
00:38:45,319 --> 00:38:47,420
So buoyant had
already entered

968
00:38:47,420 --> 00:38:49,610
into this interest in

969
00:38:49,610 --> 00:38:53,179
translating pulse texts

970
00:38:53,179 --> 00:38:55,279
for a European audience.

971
00:38:55,279 --> 00:38:58,009
And COO play is

972
00:38:58,009 --> 00:39:01,384
spending years
traveling with Boyne,

973
00:39:01,384 --> 00:39:05,000
heading back for China
for various reasons.

974
00:39:05,000 --> 00:39:08,180
The whole trip for CU
plate took three years,

975
00:39:08,180 --> 00:39:11,360
but could play Rouge
mall and another

976
00:39:11,360 --> 00:39:14,195
novice Prospero
into a chat DA,

977
00:39:14,195 --> 00:39:17,539
finally arrived in 1659

978
00:39:17,539 --> 00:39:19,325
and could play in
into a cheetah,

979
00:39:19,325 --> 00:39:21,185
were then posted to Jiang,

980
00:39:21,185 --> 00:39:23,119
Jiang to help with
the mission and

981
00:39:23,119 --> 00:39:25,355
to become fluent
in Chinese.

982
00:39:25,355 --> 00:39:28,099
The Jesuits had much
earlier decided that

983
00:39:28,099 --> 00:39:29,930
Confucius was the key to

984
00:39:29,930 --> 00:39:31,999
understanding wisdom
of the literati.

985
00:39:31,999 --> 00:39:33,409
Indeed, the most famous

986
00:39:33,409 --> 00:39:34,865
early member of
the mission,

987
00:39:34,865 --> 00:39:37,009
Matteo Ricci,
even declared

988
00:39:37,009 --> 00:39:39,950
that Kongzi, Confucius,

989
00:39:39,950 --> 00:39:42,815
his official title
of Shang Ren,

990
00:39:42,815 --> 00:39:46,084
was best rendered
in the Italian

991
00:39:46,084 --> 00:39:49,834
as Santo were saint
rather than separate,

992
00:39:49,834 --> 00:39:54,299
separate sub p, anti-stigma
or most wise man.

993
00:39:54,430 --> 00:39:56,734
To help the new recruits

994
00:39:56,734 --> 00:39:58,490
with their study
of Confucius,

995
00:39:58,490 --> 00:40:00,424
the saint in China.

996
00:40:00,424 --> 00:40:02,840
In Chinese into
our chat to,

997
00:40:02,840 --> 00:40:05,644
and his teacher
Ignacio de Costa,

998
00:40:05,644 --> 00:40:07,865
translated and
printed from

999
00:40:07,865 --> 00:40:10,264
wooden blocks using
the Chinese method.

1000
00:40:10,264 --> 00:40:13,789
Two of printing in,
in Latin characters.

1001
00:40:13,789 --> 00:40:17,285
Two of the four chief
Confucius texts,

1002
00:40:17,285 --> 00:40:18,335
the Analects,

1003
00:40:18,335 --> 00:40:20,195
Analects, and the
great learning.

1004
00:40:20,195 --> 00:40:22,895
In 1662. And a
few years later,

1005
00:40:22,895 --> 00:40:24,439
all the Jesuits were

1006
00:40:24,439 --> 00:40:26,599
confined under
house arrest

1007
00:40:26,599 --> 00:40:28,640
because of
unpleasantness at

1008
00:40:28,640 --> 00:40:31,189
the court in Beijing.

1009
00:40:31,189 --> 00:40:33,259
They were confined
at her house arrest

1010
00:40:33,259 --> 00:40:34,520
in Guangzhou or

1011
00:40:34,520 --> 00:40:40,055
Canton for six years
from 1665 to 1671.

1012
00:40:40,055 --> 00:40:42,140
And during that
very long period of

1013
00:40:42,140 --> 00:40:44,734
time when they're
all living together.

1014
00:40:44,734 --> 00:40:46,790
Another, the
books attributed

1015
00:40:46,790 --> 00:40:48,455
to Confucius himself,

1016
00:40:48,455 --> 00:40:50,930
the Doctrine of the
Mean was translated

1017
00:40:50,930 --> 00:40:53,735
and printed by
into a cheetah.

1018
00:40:53,735 --> 00:40:56,479
So those three
texts are three of

1019
00:40:56,479 --> 00:40:59,285
the four chief classics

1020
00:40:59,285 --> 00:41:02,150
that x0, x2 of Confucius.

1021
00:41:02,150 --> 00:41:07,249
And that last translation
was also done.

1022
00:41:07,249 --> 00:41:09,575
While they were
living together.

1023
00:41:09,575 --> 00:41:11,540
That text is the Mencius,

1024
00:41:11,540 --> 00:41:13,550
which is a text not by

1025
00:41:13,550 --> 00:41:16,610
Confucius himself but
his chief disciple.

1026
00:41:16,610 --> 00:41:20,809
And all of those four
books associated with

1027
00:41:20,809 --> 00:41:22,909
Confucius would
later be published

1028
00:41:22,909 --> 00:41:25,294
in Europe as the
great addition and,

1029
00:41:25,294 --> 00:41:27,665
and translation
of Confucius

1030
00:41:27,665 --> 00:41:29,704
that coup play is
associated with.

1031
00:41:29,704 --> 00:41:33,350
So thanks to the work
of tier may not,

1032
00:41:33,350 --> 00:41:35,389
we have a very
good insight also

1033
00:41:35,389 --> 00:41:37,519
into the methods that
the Jesuits were

1034
00:41:37,519 --> 00:41:41,000
using to work out
these translations in

1035
00:41:41,000 --> 00:41:42,530
discussions among
themselves and with

1036
00:41:42,530 --> 00:41:45,364
your Chinese colleagues
during that period.

1037
00:41:45,364 --> 00:41:48,350
So basically, what I'm
saying is could play

1038
00:41:48,350 --> 00:41:49,400
was involved in these

1039
00:41:49,400 --> 00:41:51,425
translations of Confucius.

1040
00:41:51,425 --> 00:41:53,089
Everybody under
house arrest,

1041
00:41:53,089 --> 00:41:54,889
and he brings
those translations

1042
00:41:54,889 --> 00:41:56,044
back with him to Europe,

1043
00:41:56,044 --> 00:41:58,474
publishes them for
a European audience

1044
00:41:58,474 --> 00:42:01,129
as the works of Confucius.

1045
00:42:01,129 --> 00:42:05,659
Now, the missionaries
were also working

1046
00:42:05,659 --> 00:42:07,444
on editing and translating

1047
00:42:07,444 --> 00:42:09,889
the medical texts
at that same time.

1048
00:42:09,889 --> 00:42:13,850
The work published
in French in 1671.

1049
00:42:13,850 --> 00:42:16,925
Secrets of
Chinese medicine

1050
00:42:16,925 --> 00:42:20,329
contains a preface
that is written

1051
00:42:20,329 --> 00:42:22,729
by an unnamed Jesuit
that was dated from

1052
00:42:22,729 --> 00:42:25,220
Canton in 1668 during

1053
00:42:25,220 --> 00:42:27,049
that period of
house arrest.

1054
00:42:27,049 --> 00:42:31,010
Perhaps that's a
French translation

1055
00:42:31,010 --> 00:42:32,555
of the Latin

1056
00:42:32,555 --> 00:42:34,520
where that boy was

1057
00:42:34,520 --> 00:42:37,834
hoping to publish.
We don't yet know.

1058
00:42:37,834 --> 00:42:40,549
But in any case that
the missionaries,

1059
00:42:40,549 --> 00:42:42,799
after they were
all released

1060
00:42:42,799 --> 00:42:44,689
from house arrest,

1061
00:42:44,689 --> 00:42:46,490
go to other places in

1062
00:42:46,490 --> 00:42:48,319
China to continue
the mission.

1063
00:42:48,319 --> 00:42:50,990
Crew play returns
to Jing Yan

1064
00:42:50,990 --> 00:42:53,794
for a decade of
successful proselytizing.

1065
00:42:53,794 --> 00:42:56,240
Before he is then sent
back to Europe as

1066
00:42:56,240 --> 00:43:00,590
pure pro curator of
the mission in 1681,

1067
00:43:00,590 --> 00:43:03,799
like martini had
done before him.

1068
00:43:03,799 --> 00:43:06,440
So he really isn't
Marty's footsteps

1069
00:43:06,440 --> 00:43:08,705
here. On the way back.

1070
00:43:08,705 --> 00:43:10,460
He stopped over for

1071
00:43:10,460 --> 00:43:11,870
a year in the capital

1072
00:43:11,870 --> 00:43:13,579
of the Dutch East Indies,

1073
00:43:13,579 --> 00:43:17,899
Batavia, where
among other things,

1074
00:43:17,899 --> 00:43:18,950
he collected
together some of the

1075
00:43:18,950 --> 00:43:20,750
Chinese medical
material he had earlier

1076
00:43:20,750 --> 00:43:22,160
sent to the head of

1077
00:43:22,160 --> 00:43:23,585
the Dutch medical
station there,

1078
00:43:23,585 --> 00:43:24,860
Andreas Claire.

1079
00:43:24,860 --> 00:43:26,419
And I've highlighted
his name

1080
00:43:26,419 --> 00:43:28,205
on this slide so
that you can see

1081
00:43:28,205 --> 00:43:30,379
that the translation work

1082
00:43:30,379 --> 00:43:32,734
that Claire is
associated with,

1083
00:43:32,734 --> 00:43:34,355
but also coming through

1084
00:43:34,355 --> 00:43:36,169
Jesuit hands
first and being,

1085
00:43:36,169 --> 00:43:40,474
I think we re-edited
and in Batavia,

1086
00:43:40,474 --> 00:43:43,189
the upshot of
all this is that

1087
00:43:43,189 --> 00:43:45,904
after coup play
returned to Europe,

1088
00:43:45,904 --> 00:43:47,990
he became known as
the chief editor

1089
00:43:47,990 --> 00:43:50,030
and translator of
the four works of

1090
00:43:50,030 --> 00:43:52,339
Confucius that had
been work done by

1091
00:43:52,339 --> 00:43:53,630
the group during
that period

1092
00:43:53,630 --> 00:43:55,324
under house
arrest in Canton,

1093
00:43:55,324 --> 00:43:58,399
and which he carried
back with him.

1094
00:43:58,399 --> 00:44:00,260
They were printed in a

1095
00:44:00,260 --> 00:44:02,584
beautiful edition
in Paris.

1096
00:44:02,584 --> 00:44:07,894
Do the patronage of
Louis the 14th in 1687.

1097
00:44:07,894 --> 00:44:11,719
But note too that the year

1098
00:44:11,719 --> 00:44:18,244
before Crew play head

1099
00:44:18,244 --> 00:44:20,629
published another
coedited work,

1100
00:44:20,629 --> 00:44:23,705
which is that medical
work to Clavius Medica.

1101
00:44:23,705 --> 00:44:25,370
The medical key to the

1102
00:44:25,370 --> 00:44:27,904
Chinese doctrine
on the pulse,

1103
00:44:27,904 --> 00:44:31,400
which was published
in Germany.

1104
00:44:31,400 --> 00:44:33,259
And there's other details

1105
00:44:33,259 --> 00:44:35,284
there that you
don't care about.

1106
00:44:35,284 --> 00:44:36,979
Don't need to know that.

1107
00:44:36,979 --> 00:44:38,510
The point is, this is it,

1108
00:44:38,510 --> 00:44:39,680
this becomes a European

1109
00:44:39,680 --> 00:44:41,120
project at the European,

1110
00:44:41,120 --> 00:44:44,915
and also less noticed

1111
00:44:44,915 --> 00:44:46,760
is yet one other work who

1112
00:44:46,760 --> 00:44:49,789
play publishes in 686,

1113
00:44:49,789 --> 00:44:52,370
which I've now added
to the system works,

1114
00:44:52,370 --> 00:44:55,954
which is a
chronological table

1115
00:44:55,954 --> 00:44:59,884
of the Empire of China.

1116
00:44:59,884 --> 00:45:02,390
It says updating of

1117
00:45:02,390 --> 00:45:04,099
the chronologies
of the empire that

1118
00:45:04,099 --> 00:45:05,704
martini and others had

1119
00:45:05,704 --> 00:45:07,969
worked on for
a few decades.

1120
00:45:07,969 --> 00:45:09,349
And Martini had brought

1121
00:45:09,349 --> 00:45:10,400
back an earlier version

1122
00:45:10,400 --> 00:45:14,060
of that with him few
decades earlier as well.

1123
00:45:14,060 --> 00:45:17,539
So here's the problem

1124
00:45:17,539 --> 00:45:19,519
that the people concerned

1125
00:45:19,519 --> 00:45:21,065
about chronology
are working on.

1126
00:45:21,065 --> 00:45:22,730
When martini
had returned to

1127
00:45:22,730 --> 00:45:25,804
Europe in the
mid 16 fifties,

1128
00:45:25,804 --> 00:45:27,500
he had brought
along evidence from

1129
00:45:27,500 --> 00:45:29,269
the Chinese animals that

1130
00:45:29,269 --> 00:45:31,280
confirmed that the empire

1131
00:45:31,280 --> 00:45:33,185
had an unbroken lineage.

1132
00:45:33,185 --> 00:45:35,060
That when matched up with

1133
00:45:35,060 --> 00:45:37,084
biblical chronologies,

1134
00:45:37,084 --> 00:45:42,719
extended back 484 years
before Noah's flood.

1135
00:45:42,910 --> 00:45:44,765
A problem.

1136
00:45:44,765 --> 00:45:46,880
The recently discovered
Greek version

1137
00:45:46,880 --> 00:45:48,979
of the Hebrew Bible,
the Septuagint,

1138
00:45:48,979 --> 00:45:50,330
which came from

1139
00:45:50,330 --> 00:45:53,464
the third or
second century BC,

1140
00:45:53,464 --> 00:45:55,759
Egypt for centuries before

1141
00:45:55,759 --> 00:45:57,154
the first secure date

1142
00:45:57,154 --> 00:45:58,609
for the mass erratic text,

1143
00:45:58,609 --> 00:45:59,689
the Hebrew version of

1144
00:45:59,689 --> 00:46:02,344
the Bible that had
been in common use.

1145
00:46:02,344 --> 00:46:05,870
This new, this
new version of

1146
00:46:05,870 --> 00:46:08,089
the Bible presented

1147
00:46:08,089 --> 00:46:10,924
a longer early chronology.

1148
00:46:10,924 --> 00:46:12,154
So if one took

1149
00:46:12,154 --> 00:46:15,050
that Septuagint
version and identify

1150
00:46:15,050 --> 00:46:17,420
the biblical patriarchs as

1151
00:46:17,420 --> 00:46:19,160
the same people as

1152
00:46:19,160 --> 00:46:22,864
the first emperors in
Chinese chronologies.

1153
00:46:22,864 --> 00:46:25,159
You could just to
squeeze everything

1154
00:46:25,159 --> 00:46:28,115
into that post flood era.

1155
00:46:28,115 --> 00:46:30,949
But a well known
Jesuit Scholar,

1156
00:46:30,949 --> 00:46:33,155
Athanasius Kircher,

1157
00:46:33,155 --> 00:46:35,960
argue that from my
teenage records,

1158
00:46:35,960 --> 00:46:37,550
it would be necessary

1159
00:46:37,550 --> 00:46:39,499
even pushed the
date of creation

1160
00:46:39,499 --> 00:46:42,349
itself back Eight
thousand years

1161
00:46:42,349 --> 00:46:46,234
before his own time
to about 6500 BC.

1162
00:46:46,234 --> 00:46:48,860
The eminently
learned Isaac

1163
00:46:48,860 --> 00:46:50,645
Vesuvius from the
low countries,

1164
00:46:50,645 --> 00:46:51,949
went even further and

1165
00:46:51,949 --> 00:46:54,109
used Martinez
calculations to

1166
00:46:54,109 --> 00:46:55,669
argue that for an even

1167
00:46:55,669 --> 00:46:58,235
lengthier chronology
for humankind,

1168
00:46:58,235 --> 00:46:59,630
the eminent
historian of our

1169
00:46:59,630 --> 00:47:01,640
own generation,
Tony Grafton,

1170
00:47:01,640 --> 00:47:03,350
has summed up
the impact of

1171
00:47:03,350 --> 00:47:04,489
Marty's evidence

1172
00:47:04,489 --> 00:47:06,394
about the Chinese
chronicles.

1173
00:47:06,394 --> 00:47:09,200
Therefore, in this
way, marching,

1174
00:47:09,200 --> 00:47:10,459
he did more than any other

1175
00:47:10,459 --> 00:47:11,870
single writer on China to

1176
00:47:11,870 --> 00:47:14,810
attack the certainties
of the chronologies,

1177
00:47:14,810 --> 00:47:17,315
forcing even
pious historians

1178
00:47:17,315 --> 00:47:18,664
to extend history

1179
00:47:18,664 --> 00:47:20,599
beyond the period
allowed by

1180
00:47:20,599 --> 00:47:23,819
the Hebrew text of
the Old Testament.

1181
00:47:24,670 --> 00:47:27,755
One last thing
to add here,

1182
00:47:27,755 --> 00:47:29,645
and that's thanks
to the work

1183
00:47:29,645 --> 00:47:31,340
of Nicholas Stoddart.

1184
00:47:31,340 --> 00:47:35,150
We also know that during
the Canton exile who

1185
00:47:35,150 --> 00:47:36,380
play had been
working on bringing

1186
00:47:36,380 --> 00:47:38,990
my Chinese chronology
up-to-date,

1187
00:47:38,990 --> 00:47:41,104
which resulted in
its own publication

1188
00:47:41,104 --> 00:47:45,094
of 1686, was on that list.

1189
00:47:45,094 --> 00:47:49,055
And he now, this is from
KU place chronology.

1190
00:47:49,055 --> 00:47:50,960
He's now placing
the birth of

1191
00:47:50,960 --> 00:47:54,545
Confucius at 550 one BCE,

1192
00:47:54,545 --> 00:47:55,970
where he remains today.

1193
00:47:55,970 --> 00:47:58,340
Further back, he situated

1194
00:47:58,340 --> 00:48:00,949
the deepest past with

1195
00:48:00,949 --> 00:48:04,580
the legendary reign
of Emperor Fu see,

1196
00:48:04,580 --> 00:48:06,259
tentatively credited
with founding

1197
00:48:06,259 --> 00:48:07,369
the Emperor empire of

1198
00:48:07,369 --> 00:48:12,409
China in 2952 BCE.

1199
00:48:12,409 --> 00:48:15,079
But the first
firmly dated and

1200
00:48:15,079 --> 00:48:17,600
Emperor where the
historical records

1201
00:48:17,600 --> 00:48:22,475
begin is Kuang
Di Qu plate.

1202
00:48:22,475 --> 00:48:26,165
David Huangdi's
rain to 200.

1203
00:48:26,165 --> 00:48:31,114
1697 BCE on the
Christian calendar.

1204
00:48:31,114 --> 00:48:34,159
To compare, note that

1205
00:48:34,159 --> 00:48:37,279
archbishop up,
Archbishop ushers,

1206
00:48:37,279 --> 00:48:40,489
well-known to your
English-speaking audience

1207
00:48:40,489 --> 00:48:44,465
is ushers
calculations about

1208
00:48:44,465 --> 00:48:47,014
using a mass erratic text.

1209
00:48:47,014 --> 00:48:53,495
Place the flood at, sorry,

1210
00:48:53,495 --> 00:48:54,920
the creation
at just before

1211
00:48:54,920 --> 00:49:00,769
4000 BCE and the
flood at 2350 BCE,

1212
00:49:00,769 --> 00:49:03,049
which obviously would
put the reign of

1213
00:49:03,049 --> 00:49:06,754
Huangdi about 300 years
before the flood.

1214
00:49:06,754 --> 00:49:09,979
But Huangdi was also
credited in place

1215
00:49:09,979 --> 00:49:13,160
system with two other
important innovations.

1216
00:49:13,160 --> 00:49:15,470
He built a temple.

1217
00:49:15,470 --> 00:49:17,239
Huangdi is supposed
to have built

1218
00:49:17,239 --> 00:49:20,330
a temple to
Lord of heaven,

1219
00:49:20,330 --> 00:49:24,989
which the Europeans
translated as God.

1220
00:49:25,180 --> 00:49:31,729
And sometime
after 2631 BCE,

1221
00:49:31,729 --> 00:49:34,640
Huang-di also produced
the medical text,

1222
00:49:34,640 --> 00:49:37,565
which includes the
texts on a pulse.

1223
00:49:37,565 --> 00:49:39,664
So in other words,

1224
00:49:39,664 --> 00:49:41,180
why D was not only a first

1225
00:49:41,180 --> 00:49:43,385
firmly established
Emperor of China

1226
00:49:43,385 --> 00:49:46,144
ruling from a period
before the flood.

1227
00:49:46,144 --> 00:49:47,630
But he had had and

1228
00:49:47,630 --> 00:49:51,200
natural revelation
so powerful that it

1229
00:49:51,200 --> 00:49:53,675
caused him to build
a temple to God

1230
00:49:53,675 --> 00:49:57,589
and to write a text on
nature and the body,

1231
00:49:57,589 --> 00:49:59,749
which we now call
a medical text.

1232
00:49:59,749 --> 00:50:03,154
When Jesuits
scholars looked into

1233
00:50:03,154 --> 00:50:04,909
the ancient
wisdom of China

1234
00:50:04,909 --> 00:50:07,280
from which
Confucius emerged,

1235
00:50:07,280 --> 00:50:10,175
they ran into Juan de.

1236
00:50:10,175 --> 00:50:13,070
No wonder this
blast of a kind of

1237
00:50:13,070 --> 00:50:15,740
original natural
revelation was

1238
00:50:15,740 --> 00:50:17,030
so provocative to them

1239
00:50:17,030 --> 00:50:19,279
and other European
scholars.

1240
00:50:19,279 --> 00:50:21,050
It helped to support

1241
00:50:21,050 --> 00:50:22,849
a growing interest in

1242
00:50:22,849 --> 00:50:24,890
Europe of the landscapes,

1243
00:50:24,890 --> 00:50:26,599
costumes, garden
plants and

1244
00:50:26,599 --> 00:50:28,295
furnishings of East Asia.

1245
00:50:28,295 --> 00:50:30,515
Not least in enduring

1246
00:50:30,515 --> 00:50:32,749
and obviously with

1247
00:50:32,749 --> 00:50:35,705
enduring importance,
tea drinking.

1248
00:50:35,705 --> 00:50:40,340
But all of these
curiosities about China,

1249
00:50:40,340 --> 00:50:42,380
interest in China
gave rise to

1250
00:50:42,380 --> 00:50:45,649
a popular fashion
known as Xin was a re,

1251
00:50:45,649 --> 00:50:48,349
a quick final word about

1252
00:50:48,349 --> 00:50:49,369
the impact of

1253
00:50:49,369 --> 00:50:51,350
the Chinese medical
translations.

1254
00:50:51,350 --> 00:50:54,590
One of the problems
for the Jesuits was

1255
00:50:54,590 --> 00:50:58,430
their grave concern
about key. To them.

1256
00:50:58,430 --> 00:50:59,690
It meant a kind of

1257
00:50:59,690 --> 00:51:02,060
very fine material
substance.

1258
00:51:02,060 --> 00:51:04,070
So they thought
that the Chinese

1259
00:51:04,070 --> 00:51:06,410
were in this respect
materialists.

1260
00:51:06,410 --> 00:51:08,495
In a specimen
for instance,

1261
00:51:08,495 --> 00:51:12,094
they had translated
key or CI,

1262
00:51:12,094 --> 00:51:15,004
as chaos or mixed matter,

1263
00:51:15,004 --> 00:51:16,880
a kind of primordial stuff

1264
00:51:16,880 --> 00:51:18,245
or the quintessence.

1265
00:51:18,245 --> 00:51:20,255
They did not wish to use.

1266
00:51:20,255 --> 00:51:23,164
In translation the Latin
word spirit to us,

1267
00:51:23,164 --> 00:51:24,559
which might
lead readers to

1268
00:51:24,559 --> 00:51:26,240
think that it was
something soul

1269
00:51:26,240 --> 00:51:28,429
like net would turn it

1270
00:51:28,429 --> 00:51:30,800
into a theological problem

1271
00:51:30,800 --> 00:51:32,525
and they wanted
to avoid this.

1272
00:51:32,525 --> 00:51:35,629
And indeed, CI is

1273
00:51:35,629 --> 00:51:37,294
not quite the same

1274
00:51:37,294 --> 00:51:39,754
as what Christians
call the soul.

1275
00:51:39,754 --> 00:51:42,154
So there are obvious

1276
00:51:42,154 --> 00:51:44,210
the other difficulties
with translating

1277
00:51:44,210 --> 00:51:45,469
Chinese medical terms into

1278
00:51:45,469 --> 00:51:46,835
any European language.

1279
00:51:46,835 --> 00:51:49,010
Nevertheless, despite

1280
00:51:49,010 --> 00:51:50,809
confusions on the
part of readers

1281
00:51:50,809 --> 00:51:55,024
because of these
translation questions,

1282
00:51:55,024 --> 00:51:58,025
the translations
made an impression.

1283
00:51:58,025 --> 00:52:00,320
So last thing I want
to leave you with

1284
00:52:00,320 --> 00:52:02,255
is the French
Enlightenment.

1285
00:52:02,255 --> 00:52:03,470
One of the historians,

1286
00:52:03,470 --> 00:52:04,849
the French Enlightenment,

1287
00:52:04,849 --> 00:52:08,600
who works in Japan,
motto HE, terracotta,

1288
00:52:08,600 --> 00:52:09,920
has recently looked into

1289
00:52:09,920 --> 00:52:10,880
the medical entries in

1290
00:52:10,880 --> 00:52:13,580
the famous
Encyclopedie and

1291
00:52:13,580 --> 00:52:16,085
he noted something
very significant.

1292
00:52:16,085 --> 00:52:18,799
The entries were
commissioned by detail,

1293
00:52:18,799 --> 00:52:21,020
but they're written
by medical professor.

1294
00:52:21,020 --> 00:52:22,400
Professors associated
with them.

1295
00:52:22,400 --> 00:52:24,260
Won't PVA medical school,

1296
00:52:24,260 --> 00:52:26,585
which was known at the
time for advocating

1297
00:52:26,585 --> 00:52:30,035
the philosophy of vitalism
against mechanism.

1298
00:52:30,035 --> 00:52:33,110
That is, the Montpellier
physicians mainly

1299
00:52:33,110 --> 00:52:34,790
thought that the
material substances

1300
00:52:34,790 --> 00:52:37,009
that made up the elements
of the human body,

1301
00:52:37,009 --> 00:52:38,989
we're not inert by

1302
00:52:38,989 --> 00:52:42,950
possessed innate powers
of motion or life.

1303
00:52:42,950 --> 00:52:45,230
To explain their position,

1304
00:52:45,230 --> 00:52:47,269
they drew on examples from

1305
00:52:47,269 --> 00:52:48,830
Chinese medicine as they

1306
00:52:48,830 --> 00:52:50,764
read it from the
translations.

1307
00:52:50,764 --> 00:52:52,670
So they saw
Chinese medicine

1308
00:52:52,670 --> 00:52:54,230
as a resource they
could employ in

1309
00:52:54,230 --> 00:52:57,290
their medical

1310
00:52:57,290 --> 00:53:00,065
philosophical
battles in Europe.

1311
00:53:00,065 --> 00:53:02,660
And they were
greatly impressed by

1312
00:53:02,660 --> 00:53:05,090
the ability of Chinese
physicians to feel

1313
00:53:05,090 --> 00:53:07,010
the activities of
the inner organs of

1314
00:53:07,010 --> 00:53:08,539
the body by touching

1315
00:53:08,539 --> 00:53:10,220
and movements
at the wrist.

1316
00:53:10,220 --> 00:53:11,780
What the Chinese
called Mole,

1317
00:53:11,780 --> 00:53:13,145
what we call a pulse.

1318
00:53:13,145 --> 00:53:14,779
Diagnosing the health and

1319
00:53:14,779 --> 00:53:17,540
illness using
the senses in

1320
00:53:17,540 --> 00:53:19,429
a way that was unknown in

1321
00:53:19,429 --> 00:53:22,414
Europe, but clearly
regulatory.

1322
00:53:22,414 --> 00:53:24,109
The most important
metaphor

1323
00:53:24,109 --> 00:53:26,450
they pulled from
the Chinese texts,

1324
00:53:26,450 --> 00:53:27,830
which they thought echoed

1325
00:53:27,830 --> 00:53:30,319
the ancient Hippocratic
idea of sympathy,

1326
00:53:30,319 --> 00:53:32,119
was that the structures of

1327
00:53:32,119 --> 00:53:34,430
the body are like a lute.

1328
00:53:34,430 --> 00:53:36,649
When any string
is plucked,

1329
00:53:36,649 --> 00:53:39,619
the rest of the strings
resonate with it.

1330
00:53:39,619 --> 00:53:42,499
The real life, the body
could not therefore

1331
00:53:42,499 --> 00:53:46,340
be accounted for at,

1332
00:53:46,340 --> 00:53:49,144
without other powers

1333
00:53:49,144 --> 00:53:50,570
being taken into account,

1334
00:53:50,570 --> 00:53:51,860
something other
than simply

1335
00:53:51,860 --> 00:53:53,525
the material substance.

1336
00:53:53,525 --> 00:53:56,000
We can conclude therefore,

1337
00:53:56,000 --> 00:53:57,784
that Chinese medicine.

1338
00:53:57,784 --> 00:53:59,104
Did not become known

1339
00:53:59,104 --> 00:54:01,369
in the West as we
call it today.

1340
00:54:01,369 --> 00:54:03,514
Only just a few
decades ago.

1341
00:54:03,514 --> 00:54:06,379
But has a much longer
history of reception.

1342
00:54:06,379 --> 00:54:08,299
Must have that history.

1343
00:54:08,299 --> 00:54:10,669
Much of that history
was embedded in

1344
00:54:10,669 --> 00:54:13,024
a larger European
interest in the rich,

1345
00:54:13,024 --> 00:54:16,984
powerful, and well-governed
celestial empire.

1346
00:54:16,984 --> 00:54:20,240
Knowledge about Chinese
medicine was mainly

1347
00:54:20,240 --> 00:54:21,529
deeply buried among

1348
00:54:21,529 --> 00:54:23,660
a few physicians
and orient lists.

1349
00:54:23,660 --> 00:54:25,684
But it is recognizable

1350
00:54:25,684 --> 00:54:27,410
if we listen to a
new generation of

1351
00:54:27,410 --> 00:54:30,290
historians who are
in our own day

1352
00:54:30,290 --> 00:54:31,969
offering a less
linear view

1353
00:54:31,969 --> 00:54:33,860
of how we got
to be modern.

1354
00:54:33,860 --> 00:54:37,655
In any case, for Jesuits
and French vitalist,

1355
00:54:37,655 --> 00:54:39,020
it held out a view of

1356
00:54:39,020 --> 00:54:41,540
nature and bodies that we

1357
00:54:41,540 --> 00:54:43,924
can honestly
term alternative

1358
00:54:43,924 --> 00:54:45,379
even in the 17th century,

1359
00:54:45,379 --> 00:54:46,745
a view that was different

1360
00:54:46,745 --> 00:54:48,199
from that of
the new science

1361
00:54:48,199 --> 00:54:49,340
and quite intentionally

1362
00:54:49,340 --> 00:54:51,514
so which stress thick?

1363
00:54:51,514 --> 00:54:53,690
And it's stressed
the new science

1364
00:54:53,690 --> 00:54:55,879
stressed the careful
investigation

1365
00:54:55,879 --> 00:54:57,230
of material structures.

1366
00:54:57,230 --> 00:55:02,749
But another way of
describing this is that

1367
00:55:02,749 --> 00:55:04,069
the invention of

1368
00:55:04,069 --> 00:55:05,989
the tradition
of interpreting

1369
00:55:05,989 --> 00:55:10,949
Chinese medicine as
containing evidence of,

1370
00:55:12,720 --> 00:55:19,495
of something not
materialistic is.

1371
00:55:19,495 --> 00:55:20,619
One way of thinking

1372
00:55:20,619 --> 00:55:21,670
about that is
that there have

1373
00:55:21,670 --> 00:55:24,115
long been counter
cultures.

1374
00:55:24,115 --> 00:55:26,740
And often enough, they

1375
00:55:26,740 --> 00:55:28,989
found resources
for imagining

1376
00:55:28,989 --> 00:55:31,794
their worlds in new ways

1377
00:55:31,794 --> 00:55:33,669
by looking to other ways

1378
00:55:33,669 --> 00:55:35,845
of knowing as examples.

1379
00:55:35,845 --> 00:55:38,230
For many modern
westerners,

1380
00:55:38,230 --> 00:55:40,179
Chinese medicine has
therefore played

1381
00:55:40,179 --> 00:55:42,955
the role not have a
therapeutic resource,

1382
00:55:42,955 --> 00:55:44,830
but of a philosophy

1383
00:55:44,830 --> 00:55:46,749
that opens
unexpected doors,

1384
00:55:46,749 --> 00:55:48,789
too mysterious forces
that cannot be

1385
00:55:48,789 --> 00:55:50,950
captured by our
current science,

1386
00:55:50,950 --> 00:55:54,059
but seemed to have
real effects on us.

1387
00:55:54,059 --> 00:55:57,095
For some. It's
deep antiquity

1388
00:55:57,095 --> 00:55:58,849
continues to lend it and

1389
00:55:58,849 --> 00:56:00,949
enduring value and
perhaps even a

1390
00:56:00,949 --> 00:56:04,324
glimpse of a
natural revelation.

1391
00:56:04,324 --> 00:56:08,045
There's more to the
movement of ideas.

1392
00:56:08,045 --> 00:56:10,759
Then power, commerce
or science.

1393
00:56:10,759 --> 00:56:13,835
Keeping an eye out
for the strange

1394
00:56:13,835 --> 00:56:17,929
and unknown is also a
powerful motivator.

1395
00:56:17,929 --> 00:56:20,930
The Jesuits wanted us
to see the Huangdi

1396
00:56:20,930 --> 00:56:24,439
not as a medical text,

1397
00:56:24,439 --> 00:56:26,374
but a philosophical one.

1398
00:56:26,374 --> 00:56:29,374
And we sometimes still do.

1399
00:56:29,374 --> 00:56:30,990
Thank you.

1400
00:56:33,010 --> 00:56:35,510
Thank you very much.

1401
00:56:35,510 --> 00:56:38,254
How for that
engaging talk.

1402
00:56:38,254 --> 00:56:40,909
And for those of you

1403
00:56:40,909 --> 00:56:43,819
who are watching and
listening at home,

1404
00:56:43,819 --> 00:56:46,849
please enter questions you

1405
00:56:46,849 --> 00:56:49,594
may have in the Q
and a function,

1406
00:56:49,594 --> 00:56:51,634
we already have a
couple of queued up.

1407
00:56:51,634 --> 00:56:52,835
Note that you can

1408
00:56:52,835 --> 00:56:55,190
like the questions
that have

1409
00:56:55,190 --> 00:56:57,229
already been asked as well

1410
00:56:57,229 --> 00:56:59,914
if they resonate with you.

1411
00:56:59,914 --> 00:57:03,350
So with that, I'll
turn to the first of

1412
00:57:03,350 --> 00:57:04,430
our questions and

1413
00:57:04,430 --> 00:57:05,450
hope that others
of you will

1414
00:57:05,450 --> 00:57:08,090
soon join the
conversation.

1415
00:57:08,090 --> 00:57:11,060
So the first question that

1416
00:57:11,060 --> 00:57:13,954
we have is, is asking,

1417
00:57:13,954 --> 00:57:16,564
does traditional
Chinese medicine

1418
00:57:16,564 --> 00:57:20,000
use modern technology?

1419
00:57:20,000 --> 00:57:21,589
And I assume that

1420
00:57:21,589 --> 00:57:25,415
means as it's
practiced today.

1421
00:57:25,415 --> 00:57:28,520
I'm not sure if
that's a question.

1422
00:57:28,520 --> 00:57:31,010
That's up your
alley or not,

1423
00:57:31,010 --> 00:57:34,684
but well, let me
briefly say that.

1424
00:57:34,684 --> 00:57:38,854
Of course I'm not a
practitioner of TCM.

1425
00:57:38,854 --> 00:57:40,639
I've had colleagues who

1426
00:57:40,639 --> 00:57:42,559
are taking Vivian Lo

1427
00:57:42,559 --> 00:57:45,020
here from my
days in London.

1428
00:57:45,020 --> 00:57:46,489
But two things to

1429
00:57:46,489 --> 00:57:47,600
say about modern
technology.

1430
00:57:47,600 --> 00:57:49,609
One is that the
needles today are

1431
00:57:49,609 --> 00:57:50,960
much different
than needles

1432
00:57:50,960 --> 00:57:52,400
a few centuries ago.

1433
00:57:52,400 --> 00:57:54,874
Much thinner in all that.

1434
00:57:54,874 --> 00:57:56,570
Um, but I think maybe

1435
00:57:56,570 --> 00:57:58,565
the question is looking
for something like,

1436
00:57:58,565 --> 00:58:01,460
do Chinese
medical practices

1437
00:58:01,460 --> 00:58:06,410
or medicines get tested
in a scientific way?

1438
00:58:06,410 --> 00:58:08,974
And yes, sometimes
they do.

1439
00:58:08,974 --> 00:58:11,780
There's still quite a lot

1440
00:58:11,780 --> 00:58:14,030
of concern about not
yet being able to

1441
00:58:14,030 --> 00:58:16,429
identify this key
thing on any type

1442
00:58:16,429 --> 00:58:19,700
of a scientific
instrument.

1443
00:58:19,700 --> 00:58:26,090
But a famous recent
example is artemisinin,

1444
00:58:26,090 --> 00:58:28,579
which is now
first-line drug in

1445
00:58:28,579 --> 00:58:30,125
the fight against malaria

1446
00:58:30,125 --> 00:58:32,014
coming out of China.

1447
00:58:32,014 --> 00:58:36,500
The Nobel Prize a few
years ago went to you.

1448
00:58:36,500 --> 00:58:40,550
You too, I think
is her name,

1449
00:58:40,550 --> 00:58:43,099
who was head of a
project in China to

1450
00:58:43,099 --> 00:58:45,140
develop a
anti-malarial drugs

1451
00:58:45,140 --> 00:58:46,985
during the Vietnam War

1452
00:58:46,985 --> 00:58:48,454
to help their allies

1453
00:58:48,454 --> 00:58:51,169
in North Vietnam against
the Americans who

1454
00:58:51,169 --> 00:58:52,775
were producing

1455
00:58:52,775 --> 00:58:55,669
kind of chemical
antimalarials.

1456
00:58:55,669 --> 00:58:59,990
But it's now been
verified as very useful.

1457
00:58:59,990 --> 00:59:03,425
This artemisinin
coming from

1458
00:59:03,425 --> 00:59:07,429
earlier Chinese
pharmaceutical texts.

1459
00:59:07,429 --> 00:59:08,960
But then being verified

1460
00:59:08,960 --> 00:59:09,950
in a scientific manner has

1461
00:59:09,950 --> 00:59:10,610
not produced by

1462
00:59:10,610 --> 00:59:12,410
modern pharmaceutical
companies as well.

1463
00:59:12,410 --> 00:59:13,789
So that's often taken as

1464
00:59:13,789 --> 00:59:15,440
an example of
something coming from

1465
00:59:15,440 --> 00:59:17,720
the ancient Chinese
medicine ways

1466
00:59:17,720 --> 00:59:19,280
that still has some.

1467
00:59:19,280 --> 00:59:22,889
Let's call it
scientific validity.

1468
00:59:23,080 --> 00:59:26,644
Thank you for that.
It looks like

1469
00:59:26,644 --> 00:59:30,110
our next question is
from Margaret delay.

1470
00:59:30,110 --> 00:59:31,820
See who writes?

1471
00:59:31,820 --> 00:59:33,770
I am curious about
the apparent lack

1472
00:59:33,770 --> 00:59:35,689
of Western comments about

1473
00:59:35,689 --> 00:59:40,639
Chinese inflation for
smallpox before 1700,

1474
00:59:40,639 --> 00:59:42,470
where they really lacking

1475
00:59:42,470 --> 00:59:43,864
or have we missed
something?

1476
00:59:43,864 --> 00:59:46,235
Why, when Western
observers mentioned this,

1477
00:59:46,235 --> 00:59:50,389
Alicia grant suggests
it was widespread.

1478
00:59:50,389 --> 00:59:54,170
Thank you so much for
the question, Margaret,

1479
00:59:54,170 --> 00:59:57,230
and I'm not sure

1480
00:59:57,230 --> 00:59:59,299
because I haven't
studied this.

1481
00:59:59,299 --> 01:00:05,959
I'm I'm I would say that
I think that we have

1482
01:00:05,959 --> 01:00:08,824
yet to understand

1483
01:00:08,824 --> 01:00:10,504
the mysterious

1484
01:00:10,504 --> 01:00:13,520
Central Asia part
of the problem.

1485
01:00:13,520 --> 01:00:19,580
But yes, that Chinese
practitioners are

1486
01:00:19,580 --> 01:00:22,174
developing these methods

1487
01:00:22,174 --> 01:00:24,949
of inoculating
for smallpox,

1488
01:00:24,949 --> 01:00:28,280
which gives you a mild
case of the disease.

1489
01:00:28,280 --> 01:00:30,560
And when that gets to

1490
01:00:30,560 --> 01:00:31,370
the Mediterranean as you

1491
01:00:31,370 --> 01:00:32,454
know better than
anyone else,

1492
01:00:32,454 --> 01:00:34,399
it, it gets
transformed a bit.

1493
01:00:34,399 --> 01:00:36,110
So instead of taking it

1494
01:00:36,110 --> 01:00:38,434
through the nose
as a powder, it,

1495
01:00:38,434 --> 01:00:40,039
it gets put
under the skin,

1496
01:00:40,039 --> 01:00:43,309
but inoculation
some decades later

1497
01:00:43,309 --> 01:00:45,395
becomes vaccination
as we know it.

1498
01:00:45,395 --> 01:00:47,104
So this is a really

1499
01:00:47,104 --> 01:00:48,440
interesting and
important problem.

1500
01:00:48,440 --> 01:00:49,805
But I, I just,

1501
01:00:49,805 --> 01:00:51,904
I, I just can't answer.

1502
01:00:51,904 --> 01:00:54,890
Well, how it got from

1503
01:00:54,890 --> 01:00:56,300
China to

1504
01:00:56,300 --> 01:00:59,240
the Mediterranean without
further commentary.

1505
01:00:59,240 --> 01:01:00,590
But there may be

1506
01:01:00,590 --> 01:01:03,590
some records we've
not looked at yet.

1507
01:01:03,590 --> 01:01:05,419
But yeah, I think

1508
01:01:05,419 --> 01:01:08,250
those mysteries lying
Central Asia somewhere.

1509
01:01:08,290 --> 01:01:10,280
I thank you.

1510
01:01:10,280 --> 01:01:12,109
And before we get to
the next questions,

1511
01:01:12,109 --> 01:01:13,820
I just apologize
in advance if I

1512
01:01:13,820 --> 01:01:16,445
mispronounce
anybody's names here.

1513
01:01:16,445 --> 01:01:19,669
Jeffrey Kingsley
asks, be that

1514
01:01:19,669 --> 01:01:22,609
Western dualism
seeing spirit versus

1515
01:01:22,609 --> 01:01:25,039
materiality caused
the Jesuits

1516
01:01:25,039 --> 01:01:26,389
and others to interpret

1517
01:01:26,389 --> 01:01:27,455
she and

1518
01:01:27,455 --> 01:01:30,845
other Chinese concepts
as non material.

1519
01:01:30,845 --> 01:01:33,259
Possibly contrary
to Chinese views

1520
01:01:33,259 --> 01:01:36,365
that spirit and
material we're unified.

1521
01:01:36,365 --> 01:01:38,855
Very good
question and yes,

1522
01:01:38,855 --> 01:01:44,420
so that dualism
goes way back.

1523
01:01:44,420 --> 01:01:47,044
In Western philosophy.

1524
01:01:47,044 --> 01:01:49,610
The Jesuits,
like others of

1525
01:01:49,610 --> 01:01:52,790
their generation in
the 17th century,

1526
01:01:52,790 --> 01:01:54,830
are wrestling with
these problems.

1527
01:01:54,830 --> 01:01:56,510
And they are quite

1528
01:01:56,510 --> 01:01:58,609
worried about the
implications of

1529
01:01:58,609 --> 01:02:02,119
g. And so they do,
they're, they're,

1530
01:02:02,119 --> 01:02:03,049
they're basically

1531
01:02:03,049 --> 01:02:05,029
concerned that
it doesn't sort

1532
01:02:05,029 --> 01:02:09,680
of pool into things
that are immaterial,

1533
01:02:09,680 --> 01:02:11,600
which would fall into

1534
01:02:11,600 --> 01:02:13,970
the category of
soul like things.

1535
01:02:13,970 --> 01:02:16,580
So they're
mostly concerned

1536
01:02:16,580 --> 01:02:18,500
to keep it
something material

1537
01:02:18,500 --> 01:02:20,659
and we're just not
that different

1538
01:02:20,659 --> 01:02:23,030
as I understand it
from from my readings.

1539
01:02:23,030 --> 01:02:26,870
Again, not being an
expert in this but falls

1540
01:02:26,870 --> 01:02:28,849
into something like
what the Chinese

1541
01:02:28,849 --> 01:02:31,979
were saying about
she at the time.

1542
01:02:33,100 --> 01:02:35,855
But yes, I think dualism

1543
01:02:35,855 --> 01:02:37,790
is one of those
classical problems.

1544
01:02:37,790 --> 01:02:38,570
I would just say it

1545
01:02:38,570 --> 01:02:39,860
doesn't start
with Descartes.

1546
01:02:39,860 --> 01:02:41,719
I think Descartes
is trying to

1547
01:02:41,719 --> 01:02:44,510
push mind and body
back together again,

1548
01:02:44,510 --> 01:02:45,829
but that he of course

1549
01:02:45,829 --> 01:02:47,330
gets blamed for
setting up dualism,

1550
01:02:47,330 --> 01:02:49,460
but it's really a problem.

1551
01:02:49,460 --> 01:02:51,590
And the Jesuits quite
aware of it and it does

1552
01:02:51,590 --> 01:02:52,729
very much effect with

1553
01:02:52,729 --> 01:02:55,984
the translate
these, these texts.

1554
01:02:55,984 --> 01:02:58,160
Thank you for that.

1555
01:02:58,160 --> 01:03:01,129
The next question
is from GUN

1556
01:03:01,129 --> 01:03:02,419
dying and I get I

1557
01:03:02,419 --> 01:03:04,565
apologize if I'm
mispronouncing your name.

1558
01:03:04,565 --> 01:03:06,200
How do you comment
on the fact that

1559
01:03:06,200 --> 01:03:08,270
many Chinese and
non-Chinese scientists

1560
01:03:08,270 --> 01:03:10,189
question and deny
the validity

1561
01:03:10,189 --> 01:03:13,189
of TCM,
particularly herbs?

1562
01:03:13,189 --> 01:03:16,610
Yes. So I was

1563
01:03:16,610 --> 01:03:19,850
just in my brief
introductory part,

1564
01:03:19,850 --> 01:03:22,849
maybe more than just
brief commenting about

1565
01:03:22,849 --> 01:03:24,830
the American reception of

1566
01:03:24,830 --> 01:03:28,385
this practice that
is now called TCM.

1567
01:03:28,385 --> 01:03:32,089
I certainly know that
it's controversial.

1568
01:03:32,089 --> 01:03:33,440
Not just in the
United States,

1569
01:03:33,440 --> 01:03:35,885
not just another so-called
Western countries.

1570
01:03:35,885 --> 01:03:40,220
It's, it's
criticized heavily

1571
01:03:40,220 --> 01:03:44,390
for very good reasons
by anybody in

1572
01:03:44,390 --> 01:03:45,755
the biomedical
system because

1573
01:03:45,755 --> 01:03:47,284
it doesn't fit with

1574
01:03:47,284 --> 01:03:50,780
the biomedical methods
of investigation

1575
01:03:50,780 --> 01:03:52,670
except in some
of these cases

1576
01:03:52,670 --> 01:03:54,799
like artemisinin.

1577
01:03:54,799 --> 01:03:56,840
So the Chinese government,

1578
01:03:56,840 --> 01:03:58,249
as I understand it is,

1579
01:03:58,249 --> 01:03:59,960
has in recent
decades been heavily

1580
01:03:59,960 --> 01:04:03,020
invested in investing
in biomedicine.

1581
01:04:03,020 --> 01:04:04,969
And so that's part of

1582
01:04:04,969 --> 01:04:08,089
the long standing
modernization process

1583
01:04:08,089 --> 01:04:09,259
that's been going
on in China

1584
01:04:09,259 --> 01:04:10,849
form for many,
many decades.

1585
01:04:10,849 --> 01:04:15,305
And do it. I know I've,

1586
01:04:15,305 --> 01:04:16,669
I've heard one
person say you could

1587
01:04:16,669 --> 01:04:18,349
probably find more
practitioners of

1588
01:04:18,349 --> 01:04:20,839
TCM on the West Coast of

1589
01:04:20,839 --> 01:04:22,295
the United States then

1590
01:04:22,295 --> 01:04:24,469
in many parts
of China today.

1591
01:04:24,469 --> 01:04:27,049
Although people I know who

1592
01:04:27,049 --> 01:04:29,359
are Chinese or
Chinese descent say

1593
01:04:29,359 --> 01:04:31,580
that many of their
relatives are

1594
01:04:31,580 --> 01:04:33,800
still interested in
these things too.

1595
01:04:33,800 --> 01:04:35,180
So I don't exactly

1596
01:04:35,180 --> 01:04:36,469
know what's going
on in China today

1597
01:04:36,469 --> 01:04:38,749
except that it
is certainly

1598
01:04:38,749 --> 01:04:40,669
being criticized
as well as

1599
01:04:40,669 --> 01:04:43,380
some people
continued to use it.

1600
01:04:44,020 --> 01:04:47,914
Okay, Our next
question, Xin Suan Li.

1601
01:04:47,914 --> 01:04:49,309
I am wondering during

1602
01:04:49,309 --> 01:04:51,410
the 17th and
18th centuries,

1603
01:04:51,410 --> 01:04:53,390
were the missionaries
the primary

1604
01:04:53,390 --> 01:04:55,880
group to introduce
TCM to Europe.

1605
01:04:55,880 --> 01:04:57,319
Did any other groups also

1606
01:04:57,319 --> 01:04:59,539
transmitted TCM from China

1607
01:04:59,539 --> 01:05:01,860
to Europe at
the same time?

1608
01:05:01,930 --> 01:05:05,659
So very good question
and yes it is.

1609
01:05:05,659 --> 01:05:06,739
The Jesuits were doing

1610
01:05:06,739 --> 01:05:08,239
that translation
work because

1611
01:05:08,239 --> 01:05:09,815
they were fluent in China.

1612
01:05:09,815 --> 01:05:10,954
Working in China.

1613
01:05:10,954 --> 01:05:13,520
There were other people,

1614
01:05:13,520 --> 01:05:14,870
the Portuguese,
especially the

1615
01:05:14,870 --> 01:05:16,399
Dutch, who interests me.

1616
01:05:16,399 --> 01:05:18,919
And that's how
I get a kind of

1617
01:05:18,919 --> 01:05:22,715
stumbled across this
subject from the Clare,

1618
01:05:22,715 --> 01:05:24,650
personal side of
these translations.

1619
01:05:24,650 --> 01:05:25,999
Who's, who's in Batavia

1620
01:05:25,999 --> 01:05:27,559
and in contact
with the Jesuits.

1621
01:05:27,559 --> 01:05:31,369
So the introduction,
as I mentioned,

1622
01:05:31,369 --> 01:05:34,489
of acupuncture is
coming through

1623
01:05:34,489 --> 01:05:37,069
the Dutch activities
in Japan and then

1624
01:05:37,069 --> 01:05:40,145
back into Europe through
the Dutch route.

1625
01:05:40,145 --> 01:05:41,809
And so that's one of

1626
01:05:41,809 --> 01:05:43,640
the reasons that
I am a little bit

1627
01:05:43,640 --> 01:05:45,529
reluctant to call this TCM

1628
01:05:45,529 --> 01:05:47,165
in the 17th century.

1629
01:05:47,165 --> 01:05:49,955
It's not quite TCM
as we understand it.

1630
01:05:49,955 --> 01:05:53,839
But the Jesuits
translations that

1631
01:05:53,839 --> 01:05:55,100
the texts that
they choose to

1632
01:05:55,100 --> 01:05:58,609
translate are not
the acupuncture.

1633
01:05:58,609 --> 01:06:00,620
Acupuncture texts there,

1634
01:06:00,620 --> 01:06:03,595
the text about
pulse diagnosis,

1635
01:06:03,595 --> 01:06:05,694
taking mouth,
feeling them all.

1636
01:06:05,694 --> 01:06:08,514
Also on the tongue.

1637
01:06:08,514 --> 01:06:12,250
There's been recent
PhD thesis in

1638
01:06:12,250 --> 01:06:17,590
London about that
tongue diagnosis.

1639
01:06:17,590 --> 01:06:18,729
Part of these texts

1640
01:06:18,729 --> 01:06:19,690
that they're
translating to,

1641
01:06:19,690 --> 01:06:21,684
which is another ancient

1642
01:06:21,684 --> 01:06:23,649
medical practice in
China that was being

1643
01:06:23,649 --> 01:06:25,810
revived in the late 16th

1644
01:06:25,810 --> 01:06:27,939
and early 17th century
as I understand it.

1645
01:06:27,939 --> 01:06:30,249
But those kind of
texts which are not

1646
01:06:30,249 --> 01:06:32,394
about acupuncture but
about, let's call it,

1647
01:06:32,394 --> 01:06:34,390
diagnostic methods

1648
01:06:34,390 --> 01:06:36,730
are the ones
that fit into,

1649
01:06:36,730 --> 01:06:38,290
Let's call it
Natural Philosophy

1650
01:06:38,290 --> 01:06:40,885
best rather than
medical practice best.

1651
01:06:40,885 --> 01:06:42,159
And those are the
ones that, that

1652
01:06:42,159 --> 01:06:44,840
Jesuits are going
for to translate.

1653
01:06:45,840 --> 01:06:49,495
Germain a war Canton asks,

1654
01:06:49,495 --> 01:06:51,039
was there a tension in

1655
01:06:51,039 --> 01:06:52,539
the 17th century between

1656
01:06:52,539 --> 01:06:54,459
the Chinese
Medicine in which

1657
01:06:54,459 --> 01:06:56,350
the Jesuits were
interested and

1658
01:06:56,350 --> 01:06:57,804
the galactic medicine

1659
01:06:57,804 --> 01:07:00,129
still with some
reputation,

1660
01:07:00,129 --> 01:07:01,899
Galen wrote about the
pulse, of course,

1661
01:07:01,899 --> 01:07:03,670
but I have forgotten
whether this

1662
01:07:03,670 --> 01:07:05,559
was one of his
works that survive.

1663
01:07:05,559 --> 01:07:07,660
So attention between
Chinese medicine

1664
01:07:07,660 --> 01:07:09,339
and the Atlantic medicine.

1665
01:07:09,339 --> 01:07:11,680
Thanks. Another
excellent question.

1666
01:07:11,680 --> 01:07:15,654
And yes, so
post-diagnosis was,

1667
01:07:15,654 --> 01:07:17,919
was certainly a
thing in the Europe

1668
01:07:17,919 --> 01:07:22,614
that the 17th century.

1669
01:07:22,614 --> 01:07:26,070
It does go back to
Galen and earlier.

1670
01:07:26,070 --> 01:07:30,079
But there were ongoing
debates in Europe

1671
01:07:30,079 --> 01:07:33,769
about pulse diagnosis
and how to employ it.

1672
01:07:33,769 --> 01:07:35,074
And one of the people

1673
01:07:35,074 --> 01:07:39,529
who famously is in
most intrigued by

1674
01:07:39,529 --> 01:07:43,039
the translations of
Chinese pulse diagnosis

1675
01:07:43,039 --> 01:07:47,209
is Sir John flyer in
England who takes

1676
01:07:47,209 --> 01:07:50,809
it as a hint of

1677
01:07:50,809 --> 01:07:52,519
something really ancient
that he wants to

1678
01:07:52,519 --> 01:07:53,630
investigate and he comes

1679
01:07:53,630 --> 01:07:54,800
up with something
completely different,

1680
01:07:54,800 --> 01:07:55,999
which is to, to

1681
01:07:55,999 --> 01:07:57,199
check the beats
and the pulse.

1682
01:07:57,199 --> 01:07:58,489
So he invents
the pulse lot

1683
01:07:58,489 --> 01:07:59,959
so you can count the
number of beats,

1684
01:07:59,959 --> 01:08:01,504
which is not
the same thing

1685
01:08:01,504 --> 01:08:03,755
as Chinese post-diagnosis.

1686
01:08:03,755 --> 01:08:07,985
But so, yeah, yes,

1687
01:08:07,985 --> 01:08:10,010
it does fall into
those debates

1688
01:08:10,010 --> 01:08:11,449
about the pulse which

1689
01:08:11,449 --> 01:08:13,820
many people in the
new science of

1690
01:08:13,820 --> 01:08:16,970
the time were disputing.

1691
01:08:16,970 --> 01:08:18,905
But less than say,

1692
01:08:18,905 --> 01:08:20,209
when the Jesuits are

1693
01:08:20,209 --> 01:08:24,169
translating these Chinese
texts into Latin,

1694
01:08:24,169 --> 01:08:27,679
they're adopting
many words

1695
01:08:27,679 --> 01:08:30,799
that are used for
galactic texts. Also.

1696
01:08:30,799 --> 01:08:32,720
Galen writing in Greek,

1697
01:08:32,720 --> 01:08:34,864
but the Latin equivalent.

1698
01:08:34,864 --> 01:08:36,815
There had been used in

1699
01:08:36,815 --> 01:08:39,350
medieval scholastic
medicine and

1700
01:08:39,350 --> 01:08:40,909
is still there
in 17th century.

1701
01:08:40,909 --> 01:08:42,229
And that, so I think if

1702
01:08:42,229 --> 01:08:44,150
anybody had read
these translations,

1703
01:08:44,150 --> 01:08:48,095
they would've seen some
of the vocabulary as,

1704
01:08:48,095 --> 01:08:51,380
oh, this is something
like galactic medicine.

1705
01:08:51,380 --> 01:08:52,909
There's something else.

1706
01:08:52,909 --> 01:08:54,829
It's earlier,
it's regulatory,

1707
01:08:54,829 --> 01:08:58,399
but it's a bit like
ancient medicine.

1708
01:08:58,399 --> 01:09:01,489
And yep, So, so I think

1709
01:09:01,489 --> 01:09:04,100
That's why when
these things

1710
01:09:04,100 --> 01:09:05,210
get debated by
the ancients,

1711
01:09:05,210 --> 01:09:07,400
moderns of the
later 17th century.

1712
01:09:07,400 --> 01:09:09,380
These Chinese texts are

1713
01:09:09,380 --> 01:09:12,209
definitely put on the
side of the ancients.

1714
01:09:13,660 --> 01:09:16,654
Martha Hanson asks,

1715
01:09:16,654 --> 01:09:18,410
I'm quite interested
in the link you've

1716
01:09:18,410 --> 01:09:19,805
made between the Jesuits

1717
01:09:19,805 --> 01:09:21,709
interested in
Confucian texts

1718
01:09:21,709 --> 01:09:23,240
and how that related
to their work

1719
01:09:23,240 --> 01:09:25,369
on translating
medical texts.

1720
01:09:25,369 --> 01:09:27,469
Do you think a scholar
should explore how

1721
01:09:27,469 --> 01:09:29,900
could play etc, at all?

1722
01:09:29,900 --> 01:09:32,600
Confucian publication
used medicine and how

1723
01:09:32,600 --> 01:09:33,919
the medical ones
may have been

1724
01:09:33,919 --> 01:09:37,040
thought to instantiate
Confucianism.

1725
01:09:37,040 --> 01:09:40,024
And I'm happy to repeat
that if you'd like.

1726
01:09:40,024 --> 01:09:41,465
Yeah, yeah. So
so that's great.

1727
01:09:41,465 --> 01:09:43,609
I do think so.

1728
01:09:43,609 --> 01:09:46,940
One of the great experts
on and she and Gian,

1729
01:09:46,940 --> 01:09:48,244
a permanent I mentioned in

1730
01:09:48,244 --> 01:09:50,210
an article that
they published

1731
01:09:50,210 --> 01:09:54,889
in the history of
science journal isis.

1732
01:09:54,889 --> 01:09:56,540
And they also published

1733
01:09:56,540 --> 01:09:59,629
a fantastic article in

1734
01:09:59,629 --> 01:10:02,149
the volume that I
edited recently.

1735
01:10:02,149 --> 01:10:03,710
They're the real
experts on this,

1736
01:10:03,710 --> 01:10:06,019
but I wanted to give
this presentation.

1737
01:10:06,019 --> 01:10:07,325
I didn't, no matter who
is going to be here

1738
01:10:07,325 --> 01:10:09,110
to make that connection.

1739
01:10:09,110 --> 01:10:10,429
And so I think
that's something

1740
01:10:10,429 --> 01:10:12,019
I've been thinking
a lot more about.

1741
01:10:12,019 --> 01:10:15,950
And I'm not sure exactly

1742
01:10:15,950 --> 01:10:18,710
how you could show

1743
01:10:18,710 --> 01:10:20,615
it in the translations
themselves,

1744
01:10:20,615 --> 01:10:23,599
but I think that that
would be possible.

1745
01:10:23,599 --> 01:10:24,319
That's something I've been

1746
01:10:24,319 --> 01:10:25,835
interested in
for some time.

1747
01:10:25,835 --> 01:10:27,650
And that's something
that I would like

1748
01:10:27,650 --> 01:10:29,449
to work in, work
on further.

1749
01:10:29,449 --> 01:10:30,890
And when I get some time,

1750
01:10:30,890 --> 01:10:32,239
maybe the summer
I'll be in touch

1751
01:10:32,239 --> 01:10:34,355
about that. Thank
you so much.

1752
01:10:34,355 --> 01:10:36,274
Thanks, Marty.

1753
01:10:36,274 --> 01:10:38,330
And I think we
may have time for

1754
01:10:38,330 --> 01:10:41,359
one more here so we
can wrap about 615.

1755
01:10:41,359 --> 01:10:43,699
Was I was asked Could you

1756
01:10:43,699 --> 01:10:46,220
elaborate on the
role the TCP has in

1757
01:10:46,220 --> 01:10:47,659
either promoting
our downplaying

1758
01:10:47,659 --> 01:10:49,759
TCM as it pertains to

1759
01:10:49,759 --> 01:10:51,709
their narrative
of nationalism a

1760
01:10:51,709 --> 01:10:54,299
whole this here into
the present, I think.

1761
01:10:54,299 --> 01:11:00,190
Yeah. So again, what I
understand of this is

1762
01:11:00,190 --> 01:11:04,045
that at least one
version of TCM

1763
01:11:04,045 --> 01:11:08,740
is strong supported
by Nazi tomb.

1764
01:11:08,740 --> 01:11:14,349
And he is lacking
resources in, in,

1765
01:11:14,349 --> 01:11:18,489
in the sixties and
trying to mobilize

1766
01:11:18,489 --> 01:11:21,610
traditional practices
for the health

1767
01:11:21,610 --> 01:11:23,620
and well-being of the
Chinese population.

1768
01:11:23,620 --> 01:11:25,269
But he's trying to

1769
01:11:25,269 --> 01:11:27,279
make it as scientific
as possible.

1770
01:11:27,279 --> 01:11:29,185
So he's looking
for this merger of

1771
01:11:29,185 --> 01:11:32,124
traditional Chinese
medicine and science.

1772
01:11:32,124 --> 01:11:35,380
And that has a big effect

1773
01:11:35,380 --> 01:11:38,375
on what comes
out of China.

1774
01:11:38,375 --> 01:11:43,219
After 1971 and the
opening of China.

1775
01:11:43,219 --> 01:11:45,320
And so much of what's in

1776
01:11:45,320 --> 01:11:47,659
the United States
would come from,

1777
01:11:47,659 --> 01:11:52,460
have lineages
connecting to that era.

1778
01:11:52,460 --> 01:11:55,279
So yes, there is

1779
01:11:55,279 --> 01:11:58,219
definitely a connection to

1780
01:11:58,219 --> 01:11:59,960
the Chinese
Communist Party.

1781
01:11:59,960 --> 01:12:01,205
On the other hand,

1782
01:12:01,205 --> 01:12:03,199
the modern Chinese
Communist Party,

1783
01:12:03,199 --> 01:12:04,415
as I understand it,

1784
01:12:04,415 --> 01:12:07,864
has more or less
stepped away from

1785
01:12:07,864 --> 01:12:10,460
TCM and invested
its resources

1786
01:12:10,460 --> 01:12:12,950
in biomass and
scientific medicine.

1787
01:12:12,950 --> 01:12:14,450
So I think that there's,

1788
01:12:14,450 --> 01:12:16,400
there's a modern
politics of this

1789
01:12:16,400 --> 01:12:18,979
in China which I don't
quite understand.

1790
01:12:18,979 --> 01:12:21,244
It's a really
good question.

1791
01:12:21,244 --> 01:12:22,819
I'm going to
throw in one more

1792
01:12:22,819 --> 01:12:24,350
just because it's
been uploaded several

1793
01:12:24,350 --> 01:12:26,839
times from Brenda
Hood who asks

1794
01:12:26,839 --> 01:12:30,304
parts of Lehi then
grand materia medica,

1795
01:12:30,304 --> 01:12:32,449
or translated into
European languages

1796
01:12:32,449 --> 01:12:34,550
around the time of the
other translations.

1797
01:12:34,550 --> 01:12:35,390
I was told that

1798
01:12:35,390 --> 01:12:37,040
this translation
had an influence

1799
01:12:37,040 --> 01:12:39,530
on Linnaeus in his
system of organization.

1800
01:12:39,530 --> 01:12:41,969
Do you have a
comment on this?

1801
01:12:42,010 --> 01:12:44,570
So very good question.

1802
01:12:44,570 --> 01:12:46,700
Yeah. So, so again,

1803
01:12:46,700 --> 01:12:48,529
martyr Hansen and
angina Pomona

1804
01:12:48,529 --> 01:12:50,509
have written about
that translation

1805
01:12:50,509 --> 01:12:56,990
of a part of a herbal,
as we would call them.

1806
01:12:56,990 --> 01:13:00,049
I don't know of any
translation of leashes

1807
01:13:00,049 --> 01:13:03,500
ends text in this moment.

1808
01:13:03,500 --> 01:13:07,820
And so I'm not

1809
01:13:07,820 --> 01:13:09,560
sure there are other kinds

1810
01:13:09,560 --> 01:13:11,225
of medical practices,

1811
01:13:11,225 --> 01:13:13,385
practices in
pharmaceutical texts

1812
01:13:13,385 --> 01:13:16,070
from South Asia and other

1813
01:13:16,070 --> 01:13:18,424
places around the
world that are being

1814
01:13:18,424 --> 01:13:19,819
brought into the European

1815
01:13:19,819 --> 01:13:21,485
canon in this
period of time.

1816
01:13:21,485 --> 01:13:23,989
They certainly are
well-known to linnaeus.

1817
01:13:23,989 --> 01:13:25,550
Linnaeus is looking for

1818
01:13:25,550 --> 01:13:26,824
all kinds of information,

1819
01:13:26,824 --> 01:13:29,239
but there is a
serious debate

1820
01:13:29,239 --> 01:13:30,709
about whether
any of those,

1821
01:13:30,709 --> 01:13:33,320
let's call them on
non-European systems of

1822
01:13:33,320 --> 01:13:36,155
classification had any
effect on Linnaeus.

1823
01:13:36,155 --> 01:13:37,309
There have been arguments

1824
01:13:37,309 --> 01:13:38,569
made in that direction.

1825
01:13:38,569 --> 01:13:40,460
I don't think
they're entirely

1826
01:13:40,460 --> 01:13:42,905
persuasive, I think.

1827
01:13:42,905 --> 01:13:45,860
But certainly
that's called

1828
01:13:45,860 --> 01:13:47,554
the information in them

1829
01:13:47,554 --> 01:13:49,070
is being appropriated
by Linnaeus.

1830
01:13:49,070 --> 01:13:50,569
So I'm a little unsure

1831
01:13:50,569 --> 01:13:55,759
about the text you're

1832
01:13:55,759 --> 01:13:58,820
referring to about
whether the vents,

1833
01:13:58,820 --> 01:14:00,739
our tradition is affecting

1834
01:14:00,739 --> 01:14:03,169
Linnaeus in any
definite way.

1835
01:14:03,169 --> 01:14:04,519
But he's certainly aware

1836
01:14:04,519 --> 01:14:06,930
of those sorts of
things out there.

1837
01:14:07,390 --> 01:14:11,344
Okay. Well, in order
to keep to time,

1838
01:14:11,344 --> 01:14:13,369
I want to first of all,

1839
01:14:13,369 --> 01:14:15,319
thank Professor Cook and

1840
01:14:15,319 --> 01:14:16,340
the friends of history for

1841
01:14:16,340 --> 01:14:17,870
sponsoring his
talk this evening.

1842
01:14:17,870 --> 01:14:18,950
And thank you all for

1843
01:14:18,950 --> 01:14:20,959
spending some of
your time with us.

1844
01:14:20,959 --> 01:14:22,999
We hope we'll
see you again

1845
01:14:22,999 --> 01:14:24,360
in another one of
these events night.

1846
01:14:24,360 --> 01:14:25,490
I know I speak for all of

1847
01:14:25,490 --> 01:14:27,635
us when I want to
say thank you for

1848
01:14:27,635 --> 01:14:29,224
really engaging
talking and

1849
01:14:29,224 --> 01:14:31,819
engaging conversation
this evening.

1850
01:14:31,819 --> 01:14:33,439
Thank you all for your
wonderful questions.

1851
01:14:33,439 --> 01:14:36,079
So wish everyone a
very good night,

1852
01:14:36,079 --> 01:14:37,490
and I hope we'll
see you at

1853
01:14:37,490 --> 01:14:38,629
another Friends of history

1854
01:14:38,629 --> 01:14:40,220
event here in the future.

1855
01:14:40,220 --> 01:14:41,240
Take care.

1856
01:14:41,240 --> 01:14:43,050
Thank you.