1
00:00:04,910 --> 00:00:06,570
We are expecting a

2
00:00:06,570 --> 00:00:08,550
couple of more
commissioners.

3
00:00:08,550 --> 00:00:11,114
Our goal is to be
out of here by noon,

4
00:00:11,114 --> 00:00:12,734
so we're going
to get going

5
00:00:12,734 --> 00:00:15,524
and we have a short
agenda today.

6
00:00:15,524 --> 00:00:17,549
Our future agenda is
gonna be much longer,

7
00:00:17,549 --> 00:00:19,320
So we're gonna take
the opportunity

8
00:00:19,320 --> 00:00:21,705
to get out of
here early today.

9
00:00:21,705 --> 00:00:25,830
So we're going
to begin with

10
00:00:25,830 --> 00:00:27,390
Ron Lieber is
gonna give us

11
00:00:27,390 --> 00:00:31,530
a screech.
Present a speech.

12
00:00:31,530 --> 00:00:33,600
This is the, as

13
00:00:33,600 --> 00:00:34,980
many as most of you
in the audience know.

14
00:00:34,980 --> 00:00:37,319
This is the 25th
center of the tree.

15
00:00:37,319 --> 00:00:39,960
The program and
resident give us

16
00:00:39,960 --> 00:00:42,745
an appropriate
beginning to that.

17
00:00:42,745 --> 00:00:46,010
Mr. Chair, members
of the commission,

18
00:00:46,010 --> 00:00:48,889
I'd be jerking my
responsibility as

19
00:00:48,889 --> 00:00:50,630
the unofficial department

20
00:00:50,630 --> 00:00:51,770
historian if we didn't

21
00:00:51,770 --> 00:00:53,479
mark today's
Commission meeting

22
00:00:53,479 --> 00:00:56,189
and some of the
subsequent ones.

23
00:00:56,530 --> 00:00:58,730
This is as you've
mentioned,

24
00:00:58,730 --> 00:01:00,710
the first commission
meeting beginning

25
00:01:00,710 --> 00:01:04,640
the 25th year of
Senate Bill 100.

26
00:01:04,640 --> 00:01:06,379
We are told many

27
00:01:06,379 --> 00:01:08,225
times that if we
forget the past,

28
00:01:08,225 --> 00:01:09,934
we are condemned
to relive it.

29
00:01:09,934 --> 00:01:11,629
I think this is
an instance where

30
00:01:11,629 --> 00:01:13,520
we not only want to
remember the past,

31
00:01:13,520 --> 00:01:15,379
we enjoy re-living it.

32
00:01:15,379 --> 00:01:19,475
And Senate Bill 100
in large degree

33
00:01:19,475 --> 00:01:20,990
explains why
many of us are

34
00:01:20,990 --> 00:01:24,469
here and still working
on this program.

35
00:01:24,469 --> 00:01:26,480
Of course, Senator
and Macpherson

36
00:01:26,480 --> 00:01:28,519
had the twinkle
in his eye about

37
00:01:28,519 --> 00:01:29,659
Senate Bill 100 long

38
00:01:29,659 --> 00:01:33,094
before some of these
events unfolded.

39
00:01:33,094 --> 00:01:34,550
You have a little memo in

40
00:01:34,550 --> 00:01:37,460
your packet with regard
to what occurred

41
00:01:37,460 --> 00:01:39,319
about this time
25 years ago,

42
00:01:39,319 --> 00:01:41,840
both Governor McAuliffe,

43
00:01:41,840 --> 00:01:44,645
well-known speech
to the legislature,

44
00:01:44,645 --> 00:01:47,330
senators Macpherson
and halite introduced

45
00:01:47,330 --> 00:01:50,209
Senate Bill 100
early in January,

46
00:01:50,209 --> 00:01:53,630
followed by its referral
to Senate Committee,

47
00:01:53,630 --> 00:01:56,554
which began along Odyssey

48
00:01:56,554 --> 00:01:59,360
in the evolution
of that bill.

49
00:01:59,360 --> 00:02:01,819
And then later,

50
00:02:01,819 --> 00:02:05,510
the Governor provided
the legislature with

51
00:02:05,510 --> 00:02:08,525
a more detailed message
about his thoughts on

52
00:02:08,525 --> 00:02:10,249
land use planning
and those items

53
00:02:10,249 --> 00:02:13,294
are in your packet.

54
00:02:13,294 --> 00:02:15,710
There are other
events that will be

55
00:02:15,710 --> 00:02:18,184
occurring during
this year.

56
00:02:18,184 --> 00:02:20,595
Some are outlined on a on

57
00:02:20,595 --> 00:02:23,450
the memo to you
with regard to

58
00:02:23,450 --> 00:02:27,229
this anniversary up until

59
00:02:27,229 --> 00:02:28,850
some special events in

60
00:02:28,850 --> 00:02:30,260
May which will mark

61
00:02:30,260 --> 00:02:32,209
the actual 25th
anniversary

62
00:02:32,209 --> 00:02:34,714
of the signing
of the bill.

63
00:02:34,714 --> 00:02:36,200
For today, we
thought it would

64
00:02:36,200 --> 00:02:39,034
be appropriate to listen

65
00:02:39,034 --> 00:02:41,944
once again to former
Governor McCall

66
00:02:41,944 --> 00:02:43,625
and what he said then,

67
00:02:43,625 --> 00:02:46,175
and at least in

68
00:02:46,175 --> 00:02:50,284
the department size its
relevance for today.

69
00:02:50,284 --> 00:03:00,409
So let's enjoy here
this point here.

70
00:03:00,409 --> 00:03:03,544
Governor McAuliffe,
message 57,

71
00:03:03,544 --> 00:03:07,889
Legislative Assembly.
Tom McCall,

72
00:03:39,160 --> 00:03:43,859
Mr. Dresden, Mr. Speaker

73
00:03:44,830 --> 00:03:49,369
of the Legislative
Assembly.

74
00:03:49,369 --> 00:03:52,249
Other distinguished
guests.

75
00:03:52,249 --> 00:03:56,989
Good. And then
the departments

76
00:03:56,989 --> 00:03:59,495
of government that
my fellow citizens,

77
00:03:59,495 --> 00:04:02,059
oregon is an inspiration.

78
00:04:02,059 --> 00:04:05,464
Whether you come to it
or are born into it.

79
00:04:05,464 --> 00:04:07,610
You would come and try
to inspire our states

80
00:04:07,610 --> 00:04:11,100
building the opportunity
she affords.

81
00:04:11,100 --> 00:04:14,389
The independent
spirit ever says,

82
00:04:14,389 --> 00:04:16,729
guns as an inspiration,

83
00:04:16,729 --> 00:04:18,020
even to those who do not

84
00:04:18,020 --> 00:04:19,984
choose to come
here to live.

85
00:04:19,984 --> 00:04:22,580
The story of
the Wind River,

86
00:04:22,580 --> 00:04:24,740
ecological Eastern,

87
00:04:24,740 --> 00:04:28,565
as it moves around all
across the nation,

88
00:04:28,565 --> 00:04:31,170
distant parts
of the world.

89
00:04:31,510 --> 00:04:34,039
Along with the applause

90
00:04:34,039 --> 00:04:37,699
for lamentation for
other states where

91
00:04:37,699 --> 00:04:42,020
Aquinas swollen praise I'm

92
00:04:42,020 --> 00:04:43,610
installing is an
inspiration to

93
00:04:43,610 --> 00:04:44,870
all Americans

94
00:04:44,870 --> 00:04:46,339
who believe they
should be able to

95
00:04:46,339 --> 00:04:47,855
influence their government

96
00:04:47,855 --> 00:04:50,149
and their
lawmaking process.

97
00:04:50,149 --> 00:04:52,159
The most intense,
especially if

98
00:04:52,159 --> 00:04:53,989
this pressure ever brought

99
00:04:53,989 --> 00:04:55,819
to bear on this
legislature,

100
00:04:55,819 --> 00:04:57,830
was by the lobbyist
who came from

101
00:04:57,830 --> 00:04:59,810
a farm to the player

102
00:04:59,810 --> 00:05:03,124
that the model
will not pass.

103
00:05:03,124 --> 00:05:05,960
Because you and
your constituents

104
00:05:05,960 --> 00:05:07,520
were inspired by

105
00:05:07,520 --> 00:05:09,845
the log of the prediction

106
00:05:09,845 --> 00:05:12,389
and the beauty
of our home.

107
00:05:17,860 --> 00:05:20,780
Doing I shouldn't say

108
00:05:20,780 --> 00:05:23,765
more than anyone
else what that

109
00:05:23,765 --> 00:05:25,430
don't want their
guns as much as

110
00:05:25,430 --> 00:05:29,780
anyone wants today in
our deliberations.

111
00:05:29,780 --> 00:05:32,089
My screen from my
determination to

112
00:05:32,089 --> 00:05:36,844
keep going until maybe
even more livable.

113
00:05:36,844 --> 00:05:39,559
This is mastication,

114
00:05:39,559 --> 00:05:42,139
which I will stand
in this chamber

115
00:05:42,139 --> 00:05:44,704
before the newly
elected assembly

116
00:05:44,704 --> 00:05:47,510
asked me and I
comprehensive package of

117
00:05:47,510 --> 00:05:54,710
all I expect to rescue
again, widely idea.

118
00:05:54,710 --> 00:05:56,959
Listen to me in
the past but

119
00:05:56,959 --> 00:05:59,540
more than pro
forma tonight.

120
00:05:59,540 --> 00:06:01,699
We appreciate
the attention

121
00:06:01,699 --> 00:06:03,689
and you're
giving me today.

122
00:06:05,230 --> 00:06:08,180
There is a
shameless fresh in

123
00:06:08,180 --> 00:06:10,970
our environment as
a whole quality of

124
00:06:10,970 --> 00:06:12,499
our life is

125
00:06:12,499 --> 00:06:14,479
the pressure that's
pointing allow

126
00:06:14,479 --> 00:06:19,939
that sage brush up
division from the media.

127
00:06:19,939 --> 00:06:23,520
The Robert Graham
page of suburbia,

128
00:06:25,690 --> 00:06:28,040
origin status as

129
00:06:28,040 --> 00:06:30,499
the environmental
level of this nation,

130
00:06:30,499 --> 00:06:31,969
were dismayed that we

131
00:06:31,969 --> 00:06:33,559
have not stopped
mission for

132
00:06:33,559 --> 00:06:35,090
the way we choose

133
00:06:35,090 --> 00:06:37,860
our most active of
finite actually,

134
00:06:38,110 --> 00:06:41,510
slate and
disrespect was not

135
00:06:41,510 --> 00:06:43,070
taken care of in

136
00:06:43,070 --> 00:06:46,565
Salem because less
than a month ago, e.g.

137
00:06:46,565 --> 00:06:48,679
Jefferson County
Commissioners appeal

138
00:06:48,679 --> 00:06:49,910
to leave for a moratorium

139
00:06:49,910 --> 00:06:51,755
on subdivisions
in that topic

140
00:06:51,755 --> 00:06:53,734
because the speculate,

141
00:06:53,734 --> 00:06:55,834
the speculators have

142
00:06:55,834 --> 00:06:58,864
more capacity for
rational control,

143
00:06:58,864 --> 00:07:03,064
were in dire need of
state land use parcels.

144
00:07:03,064 --> 00:07:06,274
The IRD of new
subdivision law,

145
00:07:06,274 --> 00:07:08,119
standards for planning and

146
00:07:08,119 --> 00:07:09,560
zoning by the counties

147
00:07:09,560 --> 00:07:10,954
and cities of our state.

148
00:07:10,954 --> 00:07:13,459
Interests of Oregon was

149
00:07:13,459 --> 00:07:14,944
a day into the future,

150
00:07:14,944 --> 00:07:17,059
must be protected from

151
00:07:17,059 --> 00:07:19,475
being washed roads
of the land.

152
00:07:19,475 --> 00:07:21,139
We must affect another

153
00:07:21,139 --> 00:07:23,210
truism that hardly imitate

154
00:07:23,210 --> 00:07:25,760
an unregulated
growth needs

155
00:07:25,760 --> 00:07:27,485
an extra days
were lowered.

156
00:07:27,485 --> 00:07:30,545
By the end of this month.

157
00:07:30,545 --> 00:07:32,765
I will submit messages

158
00:07:32,765 --> 00:07:35,600
as many as 12 and
number around

159
00:07:35,600 --> 00:07:37,655
these and other principal
topics related to

160
00:07:37,655 --> 00:07:41,699
leaflet annual budget
now in your hands.

161
00:07:43,000 --> 00:07:45,409
I won't ask you
to submit to

162
00:07:45,409 --> 00:07:47,450
the people or proposal

163
00:07:47,450 --> 00:07:50,120
for reducing rigid if

164
00:07:50,120 --> 00:07:51,695
you go on Highway Trust,

165
00:07:51,695 --> 00:07:54,890
we sold refreshes our
ability to provide

166
00:07:54,890 --> 00:07:58,114
a truly integrated
transportation system.

167
00:07:58,114 --> 00:08:01,550
I will ask you to
authorize a 150.

168
00:08:01,550 --> 00:08:04,489
Again, our
foundation responds

169
00:08:04,489 --> 00:08:06,589
to overcome that
immense backlog.

170
00:08:06,589 --> 00:08:09,874
We have transportation
situation and audit.

171
00:08:09,874 --> 00:08:10,969
The details of

172
00:08:10,969 --> 00:08:12,529
this proposal
will be presented

173
00:08:12,529 --> 00:08:14,989
to you in an
extraordinary message

174
00:08:14,989 --> 00:08:16,219
that will reach your desk

175
00:08:16,219 --> 00:08:22,530
from our accomplishments
for the next day's.

176
00:08:22,600 --> 00:08:27,170
Know Spanish
before the labors

177
00:08:27,170 --> 00:08:29,854
of people who gave the
best of themselves.

178
00:08:29,854 --> 00:08:32,509
A public servants who work

179
00:08:32,509 --> 00:08:35,359
in the interests of
the people ahead of

180
00:08:35,359 --> 00:08:38,210
personal or
guardian will not

181
00:08:38,210 --> 00:08:40,309
accomplish
everything we came

182
00:08:40,309 --> 00:08:41,570
here to do as individuals,

183
00:08:41,570 --> 00:08:43,475
everything we
believe we should.

184
00:08:43,475 --> 00:08:48,815
Even though we do our
public expectation,

185
00:08:48,815 --> 00:08:51,139
there must be
conciliation, flexibility,

186
00:08:51,139 --> 00:08:54,650
and compromise plans
out of a comp reality.

187
00:08:54,650 --> 00:08:57,994
In this special,
56 years ago,

188
00:08:57,994 --> 00:08:59,660
Sam spoke of a state

189
00:08:59,660 --> 00:09:01,190
ribs good accomplishment.

190
00:09:01,190 --> 00:09:02,720
He spoke of an intelligent

191
00:09:02,720 --> 00:09:04,159
and prosperous people.

192
00:09:04,159 --> 00:09:06,020
Mistake towering
is history and

193
00:09:06,020 --> 00:09:10,159
scenic view is
idealism in 1917

194
00:09:10,159 --> 00:09:12,890
is equally at home
that ARE state

195
00:09:12,890 --> 00:09:16,409
renounce the world and
precious to us all.

196
00:09:16,409 --> 00:09:19,415
His strikes, his
legislative assembly.

197
00:09:19,415 --> 00:09:21,680
Sam upon expressed
his love

198
00:09:21,680 --> 00:09:23,270
for Massachusetts
and his words,

199
00:09:23,270 --> 00:09:26,729
certain expression,
you are my love.

200
00:09:28,210 --> 00:09:31,269
These other words rushed

201
00:09:31,269 --> 00:09:33,350
to tarnish the
luster of a theme.

202
00:09:33,350 --> 00:09:37,339
So spending would be
shameful. To diminish.

203
00:09:37,339 --> 00:09:40,280
It would be a
very great day to

204
00:09:40,280 --> 00:09:44,310
open it would
indeed the floor.

205
00:09:54,040 --> 00:09:56,809
Thank you. Ron.
Ceiling has

206
00:09:56,809 --> 00:09:58,099
a way with words,
didn't they?

207
00:09:58,099 --> 00:10:01,520
Yeah. I didn't know

208
00:10:01,520 --> 00:10:03,199
Jefferson County
was a county

209
00:10:03,199 --> 00:10:05,580
that spurred him
into that speech.

210
00:10:05,920 --> 00:10:07,759
Always new.

211
00:10:07,759 --> 00:10:11,160
Jefferson County was
full of grasping washed.

212
00:10:15,490 --> 00:10:19,010
With that. We'll go to
our first agenda item.

213
00:10:19,010 --> 00:10:20,959
Unless any commissioners
wanted to make

214
00:10:20,959 --> 00:10:23,810
any comments
before we I was

215
00:10:23,810 --> 00:10:28,624
wondering commissioner
Macpherson was

216
00:10:28,624 --> 00:10:31,159
was one of the sponsors

217
00:10:31,159 --> 00:10:32,240
of the Senate Bill 100,

218
00:10:32,240 --> 00:10:33,409
how it must feel to

219
00:10:33,409 --> 00:10:36,305
25 years later here
that same speak.

220
00:10:36,305 --> 00:10:38,959
Well, naturally

221
00:10:38,959 --> 00:10:41,044
I'm delighted that
it's still here.

222
00:10:41,044 --> 00:10:43,235
We've been up and down

223
00:10:43,235 --> 00:10:45,485
over the years and I
think maybe it'll last.

224
00:10:45,485 --> 00:10:47,854
Sometimes I've wondered
along the road.

225
00:10:47,854 --> 00:10:51,199
But it's a great feeling
of accomplishment.

226
00:10:51,199 --> 00:10:52,370
That's something
that really

227
00:10:52,370 --> 00:10:53,450
did make a difference,

228
00:10:53,450 --> 00:10:54,920
came out of what
we were doing.

229
00:10:54,920 --> 00:10:57,364
Then. There
were some of us

230
00:10:57,364 --> 00:10:59,089
thought we were
doing something that

231
00:10:59,089 --> 00:11:00,770
might have some
lasting impact,

232
00:11:00,770 --> 00:11:02,465
but we weren't too sure.

233
00:11:02,465 --> 00:11:06,349
And I think maybe
the best thing

234
00:11:06,349 --> 00:11:07,460
that came out of step or

235
00:11:07,460 --> 00:11:09,694
100 is we
developed a system

236
00:11:09,694 --> 00:11:11,480
not trying to tell

237
00:11:11,480 --> 00:11:12,679
Oregon where they
were gonna go,

238
00:11:12,679 --> 00:11:13,999
but develop the
system that could

239
00:11:13,999 --> 00:11:15,650
grow and change
over the years.

240
00:11:15,650 --> 00:11:17,330
And I think maybe
that's the secret of

241
00:11:17,330 --> 00:11:19,219
the fact that it
is still here

242
00:11:19,219 --> 00:11:20,930
is that it's adapted

243
00:11:20,930 --> 00:11:22,879
to the political realities

244
00:11:22,879 --> 00:11:24,230
along the road and,

245
00:11:24,230 --> 00:11:25,880
but it's still a battle.

246
00:11:25,880 --> 00:11:27,949
So I'm delighted that is

247
00:11:27,949 --> 00:11:30,230
here and remembering them.

248
00:11:30,230 --> 00:11:31,579
We never would have gotten

249
00:11:31,579 --> 00:11:32,630
it if we hadn't had men

250
00:11:32,630 --> 00:11:33,739
like Tom McCall that

251
00:11:33,739 --> 00:11:35,164
could bring the
people along.

252
00:11:35,164 --> 00:11:36,530
I was a technocrat

253
00:11:36,530 --> 00:11:38,704
and I helped put
the thing together.

254
00:11:38,704 --> 00:11:40,130
But I wasn't the kind of

255
00:11:40,130 --> 00:11:41,885
go out and sell it
the way Tom goods.

256
00:11:41,885 --> 00:11:43,009
So he did

257
00:11:43,009 --> 00:11:44,780
a wonderful job and
I'm delighted that

258
00:11:44,780 --> 00:11:46,040
he hear a little

259
00:11:46,040 --> 00:11:48,780
bit obvious words
again today.

260
00:11:51,820 --> 00:11:54,439
Let's go to the
first agenda item

261
00:11:54,439 --> 00:11:56,939
which is public comment.

262
00:11:57,760 --> 00:11:59,979
I have one person who's

263
00:11:59,979 --> 00:12:03,180
signed up, Wendy
Ellington.

264
00:12:09,400 --> 00:12:12,530
Good morning. I've
never done this before.

265
00:12:12,530 --> 00:12:13,955
Probably won't
ever do it again.

266
00:12:13,955 --> 00:12:15,755
I'm here totally
on my own behalf

267
00:12:15,755 --> 00:12:17,150
because of the concern of

268
00:12:17,150 --> 00:12:19,610
events a recent
weeks and perhaps

269
00:12:19,610 --> 00:12:21,140
a recent months watching

270
00:12:21,140 --> 00:12:22,850
the land use system go.

271
00:12:22,850 --> 00:12:24,980
I'm an attorney, but
first I'm a citizen.

272
00:12:24,980 --> 00:12:27,395
I live in the city
of Lake Oswego.

273
00:12:27,395 --> 00:12:29,870
I have been an attorney
for a long time.

274
00:12:29,870 --> 00:12:31,909
I started out as the
assistant legal counsel

275
00:12:31,909 --> 00:12:33,229
for Jackson County.

276
00:12:33,229 --> 00:12:35,389
I know those rural
issues 1983-1989.

277
00:12:35,389 --> 00:12:39,470
1989 to 1995.

278
00:12:39,470 --> 00:12:40,160
I was a member of

279
00:12:40,160 --> 00:12:41,659
the land use
Board of Appeals,

280
00:12:41,659 --> 00:12:44,209
serving as both a referee
and cheap referee.

281
00:12:44,209 --> 00:12:45,830
And since 1995, I

282
00:12:45,830 --> 00:12:48,230
have been in
private practice.

283
00:12:48,230 --> 00:12:50,374
In all those capacities.

284
00:12:50,374 --> 00:12:51,950
I watched the
importance of goal

285
00:12:51,950 --> 00:12:53,764
three and been dumbfounded

286
00:12:53,764 --> 00:12:54,844
by the role of gold.

287
00:12:54,844 --> 00:12:57,229
And what I want to
talk to you about

288
00:12:57,229 --> 00:12:59,209
today is the role of goal

289
00:12:59,209 --> 00:13:01,834
ten in the land use
planning process.

290
00:13:01,834 --> 00:13:03,185
I love this.

291
00:13:03,185 --> 00:13:05,735
I love this land use
planning system,

292
00:13:05,735 --> 00:13:08,000
and I see some real
threats to it right now.

293
00:13:08,000 --> 00:13:09,649
And I've got to tell
you about those.

294
00:13:09,649 --> 00:13:11,165
Has a care I don't know if

295
00:13:11,165 --> 00:13:12,140
anybody else would get up

296
00:13:12,140 --> 00:13:13,189
here and do this but me,

297
00:13:13,189 --> 00:13:15,295
but I'm gonna
do it anyway.

298
00:13:15,295 --> 00:13:18,065
Want encourage you to
look at the issue.

299
00:13:18,065 --> 00:13:20,690
What goal three is
to counties folks,

300
00:13:20,690 --> 00:13:22,819
goal ten is to cities.

301
00:13:22,819 --> 00:13:25,849
Whereas before the
pressure was on

302
00:13:25,849 --> 00:13:30,695
agricultural land and
the gas being wasteful,

303
00:13:30,695 --> 00:13:32,270
trying to devour it.

304
00:13:32,270 --> 00:13:34,340
Right now with our
booming economy,

305
00:13:34,340 --> 00:13:35,465
the pressure is on

306
00:13:35,465 --> 00:13:39,064
gold tint and events
in recent weeks,

307
00:13:39,064 --> 00:13:42,230
and especially this week
in our metro region,

308
00:13:42,230 --> 00:13:47,314
have led to the
potentiality

309
00:13:47,314 --> 00:13:50,780
that a metro city
is going to be able

310
00:13:50,780 --> 00:13:52,550
to opt out of gold

311
00:13:52,550 --> 00:13:54,590
ten compliance
because it wants

312
00:13:54,590 --> 00:13:56,780
to I want to tell you

313
00:13:56,780 --> 00:13:57,859
that I think that that is

314
00:13:57,859 --> 00:14:00,079
extremely offensive.

315
00:14:00,079 --> 00:14:03,575
No county, including
my own Jackson County,

316
00:14:03,575 --> 00:14:05,630
which I love, was ever

317
00:14:05,630 --> 00:14:08,015
able to opt out
of gold III.

318
00:14:08,015 --> 00:14:10,234
It didn't matter.
The folks wanted

319
00:14:10,234 --> 00:14:12,680
local control and folks

320
00:14:12,680 --> 00:14:15,245
thought they had enough
agricultural land.

321
00:14:15,245 --> 00:14:16,639
The important
thing was it was

322
00:14:16,639 --> 00:14:18,305
a state policy
and by golly,

323
00:14:18,305 --> 00:14:21,199
we work correctly
going to protect it.

324
00:14:21,199 --> 00:14:24,274
Similarly, gold
ten expresses

325
00:14:24,274 --> 00:14:26,239
housing resource and

326
00:14:26,239 --> 00:14:27,740
the corollary to go three,

327
00:14:27,740 --> 00:14:29,269
and it says, we're gonna

328
00:14:29,269 --> 00:14:31,444
have our housing
inside of cities.

329
00:14:31,444 --> 00:14:34,760
And cities are going to
comply with gold tan.

330
00:14:34,760 --> 00:14:36,350
They're going to
provide a range of

331
00:14:36,350 --> 00:14:38,974
housing types
for everybody.

332
00:14:38,974 --> 00:14:42,739
Nobody gets to opt out.

333
00:14:42,739 --> 00:14:45,199
And it's not just in
the Portland region.

334
00:14:45,199 --> 00:14:47,240
I've seen this in
private practice.

335
00:14:47,240 --> 00:14:49,010
I've seen it all
over the state.

336
00:14:49,010 --> 00:14:51,259
One city in Southern
Oregon even

337
00:14:51,259 --> 00:14:53,659
was the only
municipal sponsor of

338
00:14:53,659 --> 00:14:55,279
the anti-growth conference

339
00:14:55,279 --> 00:14:56,449
and recently amended

340
00:14:56,449 --> 00:14:58,459
its codes in contravention

341
00:14:58,459 --> 00:15:00,455
of its build
blends inventory.

342
00:15:00,455 --> 00:15:02,915
It's not a trifling issue.

343
00:15:02,915 --> 00:15:05,330
The commission's name
has been bandied

344
00:15:05,330 --> 00:15:07,699
about in the
recent debate.

345
00:15:07,699 --> 00:15:09,410
And I want you
to think about

346
00:15:09,410 --> 00:15:10,789
this issue
before you weigh

347
00:15:10,789 --> 00:15:13,655
in on one side
or the other.

348
00:15:13,655 --> 00:15:15,170
Think about perhaps the

349
00:15:15,170 --> 00:15:17,015
unintended consequences

350
00:15:17,015 --> 00:15:20,374
of letting the city
opt out of gold tan.

351
00:15:20,374 --> 00:15:22,669
And what that does
to first of all,

352
00:15:22,669 --> 00:15:23,869
the entire system and how

353
00:15:23,869 --> 00:15:25,250
county commissioners and

354
00:15:25,250 --> 00:15:26,929
counties are going
to feel about that.

355
00:15:26,929 --> 00:15:28,640
Whether they're
gonna get to opt out

356
00:15:28,640 --> 00:15:32,089
to think about
whether or not it

357
00:15:32,089 --> 00:15:34,549
achieves the vision
that you have for

358
00:15:34,549 --> 00:15:36,829
the land use planning
system that you

359
00:15:36,829 --> 00:15:39,529
just heard so
eloquently spoke about.

360
00:15:39,529 --> 00:15:41,345
Hi, Governor Tom McCall.

361
00:15:41,345 --> 00:15:42,859
I wish I could be so

362
00:15:42,859 --> 00:15:45,500
eloquent if there's
ever going to

363
00:15:45,500 --> 00:15:48,575
be an opportunity or

364
00:15:48,575 --> 00:15:49,939
a request that citizens

365
00:15:49,939 --> 00:15:51,350
participate in this issue.

366
00:15:51,350 --> 00:15:53,689
I will have a lot of time.

367
00:15:53,689 --> 00:15:55,370
I have kids and
all those things,

368
00:15:55,370 --> 00:15:56,824
but I feel
strongly about it.

369
00:15:56,824 --> 00:15:57,860
And if you want any help

370
00:15:57,860 --> 00:15:59,659
on it, I'd participate.

371
00:15:59,659 --> 00:16:02,420
So that's what I
wanted to say to you.

372
00:16:02,420 --> 00:16:03,949
I've been saying it
to so many people

373
00:16:03,949 --> 00:16:05,690
and nobody is really

374
00:16:05,690 --> 00:16:06,829
willing to say
it out loud.

375
00:16:06,829 --> 00:16:10,069
And so I thought I
would That's it.

376
00:16:10,069 --> 00:16:11,150
Don't go away because we

377
00:16:11,150 --> 00:16:13,115
might have some questions.

378
00:16:13,115 --> 00:16:18,815
But he want to come and
talk, ask questions.

379
00:16:18,815 --> 00:16:21,734
Which city and
what's their theory?

380
00:16:21,734 --> 00:16:22,795
I don't know.

381
00:16:22,795 --> 00:16:23,890
I don't know enough
about it yet.

382
00:16:23,890 --> 00:16:26,800
I know it's like
Oswego and I have been

383
00:16:26,800 --> 00:16:28,209
trying to find out
what's going on

384
00:16:28,209 --> 00:16:29,769
and really haven't
been able to.

385
00:16:29,769 --> 00:16:30,909
There was a
newspaper article

386
00:16:30,909 --> 00:16:32,845
and UV approach.

387
00:16:32,845 --> 00:16:35,094
Yeah. Yeah.

388
00:16:35,094 --> 00:16:37,570
Ever basis? Yes. What was

389
00:16:37,570 --> 00:16:41,020
the Southern Oregon
City that Ashland.

390
00:16:41,020 --> 00:16:43,269
Are we aware?

391
00:16:43,269 --> 00:16:45,550
We looked at we
review all of those.

392
00:16:45,550 --> 00:16:47,800
You actually add a letter
to the city telling

393
00:16:47,800 --> 00:16:49,030
them what they
were doing was

394
00:16:49,030 --> 00:16:50,290
of concern to you?

395
00:16:50,290 --> 00:16:51,820
We filed an
appeal at Lupo.

396
00:16:51,820 --> 00:16:52,899
We ask that you intervene,

397
00:16:52,899 --> 00:16:54,084
but I think you did not.

398
00:16:54,084 --> 00:16:55,135
Do.

399
00:16:55,135 --> 00:17:00,745
I really want to know.
They established

400
00:17:00,745 --> 00:17:03,660
a hillside protection
ordinance.

401
00:17:03,660 --> 00:17:06,350
Have a buildable
lands inventory that

402
00:17:06,350 --> 00:17:08,209
says that lands
up to 40% of

403
00:17:08,209 --> 00:17:10,400
buildable and created very

404
00:17:10,400 --> 00:17:11,840
onerous non my view,

405
00:17:11,840 --> 00:17:13,700
at least clear and
objective standards

406
00:17:13,700 --> 00:17:15,560
applicable
housing on slopes

407
00:17:15,560 --> 00:17:18,005
that 25% or greater

408
00:17:18,005 --> 00:17:20,870
and a prohibition on
land divisions over

409
00:17:20,870 --> 00:17:23,570
35% without going through

410
00:17:23,570 --> 00:17:25,110
the goal five processor

411
00:17:25,110 --> 00:17:26,119
or any of those things.

412
00:17:26,119 --> 00:17:27,800
The city also has
inclusionary zoning

413
00:17:27,800 --> 00:17:29,194
for an excellence,

414
00:17:29,194 --> 00:17:30,320
and I don't think it's

415
00:17:30,320 --> 00:17:31,610
possible to comply with

416
00:17:31,610 --> 00:17:33,050
both inclusionary
zoning and

417
00:17:33,050 --> 00:17:34,594
the hillside
Protection Ordinance,

418
00:17:34,594 --> 00:17:36,514
raise those issues and

419
00:17:36,514 --> 00:17:38,299
the city wasn't
interested.

420
00:17:38,299 --> 00:17:40,200
What we had to say.

421
00:17:41,200 --> 00:17:42,560
What's that?

422
00:17:42,560 --> 00:17:43,639
Luba right now, it

423
00:17:43,639 --> 00:17:46,784
is though, but
we'll decide.

424
00:17:46,784 --> 00:17:49,330
But it's just it's a
point that you all

425
00:17:49,330 --> 00:17:51,639
saw the the anti-growth
conference and what

426
00:17:51,639 --> 00:17:53,110
was there and a
lot of our friends

427
00:17:53,110 --> 00:17:54,999
and people who
participated in it

428
00:17:54,999 --> 00:17:56,500
was just a little
whole thing

429
00:17:56,500 --> 00:17:58,029
is pretty startling
to me because if

430
00:17:58,029 --> 00:18:01,750
you can't go outside and
you can't go inside,

431
00:18:01,750 --> 00:18:03,174
you can't go anywhere.

432
00:18:03,174 --> 00:18:05,424
And again, as a citizen,

433
00:18:05,424 --> 00:18:07,149
I find that
offensive and I

434
00:18:07,149 --> 00:18:09,639
represent a lot of
different people,

435
00:18:09,639 --> 00:18:11,230
but none of
them would want

436
00:18:11,230 --> 00:18:12,984
to have their name
and this causes

437
00:18:12,984 --> 00:18:19,974
a recession with you
probably go, okay.

438
00:18:19,974 --> 00:18:22,089
Well, you're
certainly raising

439
00:18:22,089 --> 00:18:24,579
an issue that I find
very disturbing as well.

440
00:18:24,579 --> 00:18:26,889
And you didn't mention
the annexation issue.

441
00:18:26,889 --> 00:18:27,999
It seems to me that that's

442
00:18:27,999 --> 00:18:29,790
the avenue that I see.

443
00:18:29,790 --> 00:18:31,415
I said he's taking to

444
00:18:31,415 --> 00:18:33,109
override what
we're trying to do

445
00:18:33,109 --> 00:18:34,490
and I know is that

446
00:18:34,490 --> 00:18:36,259
a part of what
you're mentioning?

447
00:18:36,259 --> 00:18:38,525
That's definitely
another concern I have.

448
00:18:38,525 --> 00:18:40,864
Absolutely. You're right.

449
00:18:40,864 --> 00:18:43,549
It's just the whole
idea that that's kinda,

450
00:18:43,549 --> 00:18:44,780
it seems kind
unfair to me,

451
00:18:44,780 --> 00:18:46,805
my very dear
friends and things

452
00:18:46,805 --> 00:18:48,349
really took a beating in

453
00:18:48,349 --> 00:18:50,029
Jackson County
over gold III,

454
00:18:50,029 --> 00:18:51,020
whether it was
right or wrong,

455
00:18:51,020 --> 00:18:51,709
they took a beating

456
00:18:51,709 --> 00:18:52,669
about it and they really

457
00:18:52,669 --> 00:18:53,870
thought they were
doing the right thing.

458
00:18:53,870 --> 00:18:55,429
I know they did. But they

459
00:18:55,429 --> 00:18:56,119
discovered that they

460
00:18:56,119 --> 00:18:57,395
weren't being
aggressive enough.

461
00:18:57,395 --> 00:18:58,670
And goal three,
compliance.

462
00:18:58,670 --> 00:19:00,394
And whereas on
the other hand,

463
00:19:00,394 --> 00:19:01,730
you have cities
who are supposed

464
00:19:01,730 --> 00:19:03,229
to take it inside
all of them.

465
00:19:03,229 --> 00:19:04,909
Each one of them has
a golden obligation.

466
00:19:04,909 --> 00:19:06,289
They say, no,
we're going to

467
00:19:06,289 --> 00:19:07,909
do it by popular vote.

468
00:19:07,909 --> 00:19:08,900
We're gonna decide whether

469
00:19:08,900 --> 00:19:10,115
we're going to index.

470
00:19:10,115 --> 00:19:11,510
Now if we want to opt out,

471
00:19:11,510 --> 00:19:13,070
we can Lake Oswego

472
00:19:13,070 --> 00:19:14,975
with just adopted
on the sixth.

473
00:19:14,975 --> 00:19:16,730
If we're we're gonna

474
00:19:16,730 --> 00:19:17,959
fight every step
of the way,

475
00:19:17,959 --> 00:19:19,370
how many to take growth
and we have two,

476
00:19:19,370 --> 00:19:20,719
it's going to have even

477
00:19:20,719 --> 00:19:22,129
folder full
cost of growth,

478
00:19:22,129 --> 00:19:22,669
which is going to

479
00:19:22,669 --> 00:19:24,050
make it extremely
expensive.

480
00:19:24,050 --> 00:19:25,610
And all of those efforts,

481
00:19:25,610 --> 00:19:26,720
you put them together.

482
00:19:26,720 --> 00:19:27,980
And at some point, I think

483
00:19:27,980 --> 00:19:29,570
the system is going to
follow its own weight.

484
00:19:29,570 --> 00:19:32,220
And I really don't want
to see that happen.

485
00:19:32,590 --> 00:19:34,820
We had a rousing debate

486
00:19:34,820 --> 00:19:36,020
down in Albany yesterday,

487
00:19:36,020 --> 00:19:37,279
and so I am very Refresh

488
00:19:37,279 --> 00:19:38,390
on this particular issue.

489
00:19:38,390 --> 00:19:40,759
So anyway, all but
he's going to fight it

490
00:19:40,759 --> 00:19:41,930
and I hope we can get

491
00:19:41,930 --> 00:19:43,100
that one turned
down there,

492
00:19:43,100 --> 00:19:44,389
but it'll be
the first time

493
00:19:44,389 --> 00:19:45,199
that the voters who have

494
00:19:45,199 --> 00:19:47,750
not accepted the
option of voting out,

495
00:19:47,750 --> 00:19:50,879
it's a huge concern
if we do, sir.

496
00:19:52,570 --> 00:19:55,580
The article that
you mentioned

497
00:19:55,580 --> 00:19:57,874
was in this week's Oregon?

498
00:19:57,874 --> 00:20:00,394
Yes, it was. That was
an interesting article.

499
00:20:00,394 --> 00:20:01,610
It's the first time Greg

500
00:20:01,610 --> 00:20:03,809
milks has done that to me.

501
00:20:03,820 --> 00:20:06,259
Mike McKee there
has been working

502
00:20:06,259 --> 00:20:08,839
on his own to

503
00:20:08,839 --> 00:20:10,789
try to bring some
resolution to

504
00:20:10,789 --> 00:20:13,714
the urban reserve
situation up there.

505
00:20:13,714 --> 00:20:17,404
And I was not involved
at all in that.

506
00:20:17,404 --> 00:20:19,849
And he said I

507
00:20:19,849 --> 00:20:22,924
was going to bring
if you hadn't come,

508
00:20:22,924 --> 00:20:23,930
I was going to bring that

509
00:20:23,930 --> 00:20:25,370
up because that's not

510
00:20:25,370 --> 00:20:27,065
an appropriate group role

511
00:20:27,065 --> 00:20:28,939
or somebody who sits
on this commission.

512
00:20:28,939 --> 00:20:30,619
Well, at some point
you're gonna be asked,

513
00:20:30,619 --> 00:20:31,970
I know as a commission,

514
00:20:31,970 --> 00:20:33,049
how you feel about it,

515
00:20:33,049 --> 00:20:34,009
and I just wanted
to let you

516
00:20:34,009 --> 00:20:35,239
know in advance
that there are

517
00:20:35,239 --> 00:20:37,910
a lot of other issues
to think about.

518
00:20:37,910 --> 00:20:40,669
What Stafford is
secondary lands mostly.

519
00:20:40,669 --> 00:20:44,449
Right. And I don't
understand why those

520
00:20:44,449 --> 00:20:45,649
wouldn't come in first

521
00:20:45,649 --> 00:20:49,190
before before
St. Mary's, e.g.

522
00:20:49,190 --> 00:20:50,629
I don't want to
ask you to get

523
00:20:50,629 --> 00:20:51,920
involved in then
take positions.

524
00:20:51,920 --> 00:20:53,150
I wouldn't ask
you to do that.

525
00:20:53,150 --> 00:20:55,220
I just want you to
understand that there's

526
00:20:55,220 --> 00:20:57,349
this concern about
goal ten out there.

527
00:20:57,349 --> 00:20:59,869
And again, I really
I loved the state,

528
00:20:59,869 --> 00:21:00,830
really loved this state

529
00:21:00,830 --> 00:21:01,639
of raise my kids here.

530
00:21:01,639 --> 00:21:03,589
I've had my kids here, and

531
00:21:03,589 --> 00:21:05,360
I loved the system
and I've been in it

532
00:21:05,360 --> 00:21:06,890
and I would just
hate to see it fall

533
00:21:06,890 --> 00:21:09,995
on such a the only thing.

534
00:21:09,995 --> 00:21:13,159
Is it your concern
that if cities opt

535
00:21:13,159 --> 00:21:14,210
out that the
counties would

536
00:21:14,210 --> 00:21:15,440
take that responsibility,

537
00:21:15,440 --> 00:21:17,870
in other words,
the county should

538
00:21:17,870 --> 00:21:19,174
provide for it
rather than the

539
00:21:19,174 --> 00:21:21,680
than than each
individual city?

540
00:21:21,680 --> 00:21:23,959
I'm not I'm not
sure what would

541
00:21:23,959 --> 00:21:26,210
happen if if
counties opt out.

542
00:21:26,210 --> 00:21:27,530
I mean, I really
I agree with

543
00:21:27,530 --> 00:21:29,060
the farm bureau that
they should be able

544
00:21:29,060 --> 00:21:31,370
to protect what
little land we

545
00:21:31,370 --> 00:21:32,885
have left with
little farmland

546
00:21:32,885 --> 00:21:33,905
that we have left.

547
00:21:33,905 --> 00:21:35,780
It's actually able
to produce crops

548
00:21:35,780 --> 00:21:37,760
for people and families.

549
00:21:37,760 --> 00:21:39,109
And so, but what
I think would

550
00:21:39,109 --> 00:21:40,850
be terribly unfair would

551
00:21:40,850 --> 00:21:42,110
be to ask as

552
00:21:42,110 --> 00:21:43,970
counties to sit there
looking at that burden,

553
00:21:43,970 --> 00:21:45,349
nobody can be inside of

554
00:21:45,349 --> 00:21:46,610
urban growth
boundaries anymore

555
00:21:46,610 --> 00:21:47,479
because cities are opting

556
00:21:47,479 --> 00:21:48,229
out all over the place.

557
00:21:48,229 --> 00:21:49,730
Whether explicitly
like what

558
00:21:49,730 --> 00:21:50,479
we saw in the paper

559
00:21:50,479 --> 00:21:51,919
Monday with Lake Oswego

560
00:21:51,919 --> 00:21:53,269
or through subterfuges,

561
00:21:53,269 --> 00:21:54,889
at least in my view,
we're seeing in

562
00:21:54,889 --> 00:21:56,899
Southern Oregon
and other places.

563
00:21:56,899 --> 00:21:58,429
And then counties as

564
00:21:58,429 --> 00:21:59,630
Randy nose hairs
are sitting

565
00:21:59,630 --> 00:22:00,740
there going and
airbase come,

566
00:22:00,740 --> 00:22:01,550
they're saying, well, why

567
00:22:01,550 --> 00:22:02,450
can't we develop here?

568
00:22:02,450 --> 00:22:03,290
We need to develop

569
00:22:03,290 --> 00:22:04,309
here we have
these problems,

570
00:22:04,309 --> 00:22:05,540
we need an exception,
we need this,

571
00:22:05,540 --> 00:22:07,280
that and the other
thing, once again,

572
00:22:07,280 --> 00:22:08,719
counties are sitting there

573
00:22:08,719 --> 00:22:10,895
explaining why they're not

574
00:22:10,895 --> 00:22:12,544
violating statewide
planning laws.

575
00:22:12,544 --> 00:22:14,255
I just don't
think it's fair.

576
00:22:14,255 --> 00:22:15,620
It's for me,
it's really sort

577
00:22:15,620 --> 00:22:16,640
of a fairness issue

578
00:22:16,640 --> 00:22:17,719
that translates into,

579
00:22:17,719 --> 00:22:18,949
I think if counties get

580
00:22:18,949 --> 00:22:20,704
mad enough about
this issue,

581
00:22:20,704 --> 00:22:22,070
they are going to
legitimately say

582
00:22:22,070 --> 00:22:24,095
this land use planning
system stinks.

583
00:22:24,095 --> 00:22:26,119
It's not for everybody,
It's only about

584
00:22:26,119 --> 00:22:29,220
us. I worry about that.

585
00:22:34,320 --> 00:22:38,649
You're raising a
problem has trouble

586
00:22:38,649 --> 00:22:40,059
actually has
troubled us and

587
00:22:40,059 --> 00:22:41,169
not as directly as

588
00:22:41,169 --> 00:22:42,009
your way you're
raising it,

589
00:22:42,009 --> 00:22:44,900
but always long time.

590
00:22:44,910 --> 00:22:46,660
I mean, I don't

591
00:22:46,660 --> 00:22:48,234
mean that you're
being too directly.

592
00:22:48,234 --> 00:22:50,845
But we have not had

593
00:22:50,845 --> 00:22:54,310
an example like Oswego
thing or maybe perhaps

594
00:22:54,310 --> 00:22:57,279
at the Ashland
thing quite as

595
00:22:57,279 --> 00:22:59,259
stark because the
growth pressure

596
00:22:59,259 --> 00:23:00,640
hasn't been that hasn't,

597
00:23:00,640 --> 00:23:02,050
it hasn't been as great.

598
00:23:02,050 --> 00:23:02,920
And so cities have kind

599
00:23:02,920 --> 00:23:04,180
of gotten a free ride.

600
00:23:04,180 --> 00:23:05,875
They've had an easy time.

601
00:23:05,875 --> 00:23:08,079
We've seen it coming
for a long time.

602
00:23:08,079 --> 00:23:09,969
And the annexation
thing has been

603
00:23:09,969 --> 00:23:12,504
the best manifestation
of this.

604
00:23:12,504 --> 00:23:15,260
And that's been
for a long time.

605
00:23:15,260 --> 00:23:16,580
It was only
Corvallis and now

606
00:23:16,580 --> 00:23:18,865
it's suddenly
become a disease.

607
00:23:18,865 --> 00:23:21,319
We could just round up and

608
00:23:21,319 --> 00:23:21,859
kill a bunch of

609
00:23:21,859 --> 00:23:23,210
chickens and solve
the disease.

610
00:23:23,210 --> 00:23:24,320
That would be
probably right, but

611
00:23:24,320 --> 00:23:27,035
unfortunately there
isn't a solution to it.

612
00:23:27,035 --> 00:23:28,640
Someone's going
to tell me,

613
00:23:28,640 --> 00:23:30,754
I know I'm going
to go back home.

614
00:23:30,754 --> 00:23:32,945
But we are watching
very carefully.

615
00:23:32,945 --> 00:23:36,350
And it

616
00:23:36,350 --> 00:23:36,500
is

617
00:23:36,500 --> 00:23:38,074
a major preoccupation
because you're right.

618
00:23:38,074 --> 00:23:40,519
It could collapse
the whole system if

619
00:23:40,519 --> 00:23:42,049
it ends up that growth

620
00:23:42,049 --> 00:23:43,969
can't go anywhere,
cities won't take it.

621
00:23:43,969 --> 00:23:45,259
Counties don't want to

622
00:23:45,259 --> 00:23:46,760
become municipal counties.

623
00:23:46,760 --> 00:23:48,589
Now. That is they have

624
00:23:48,589 --> 00:23:49,890
a choice and
O'clock misconduct

625
00:23:49,890 --> 00:23:50,839
looked hard at that.

626
00:23:50,839 --> 00:23:52,940
Washington County
basically is

627
00:23:52,940 --> 00:23:54,980
providing urban services

628
00:23:54,980 --> 00:23:56,675
for most of the county.

629
00:23:56,675 --> 00:23:58,505
The cities aren't
providing.

630
00:23:58,505 --> 00:24:00,215
So that is an option,

631
00:24:00,215 --> 00:24:02,465
but that's a big
burden for accounting

632
00:24:02,465 --> 00:24:04,099
and a big step for kind of

633
00:24:04,099 --> 00:24:05,779
take them as soon
as they tried to,

634
00:24:05,779 --> 00:24:06,980
you know, someone
will take them on.

635
00:24:06,980 --> 00:24:08,180
Then they got to
hire a lawyer

636
00:24:08,180 --> 00:24:10,729
in themselves and
you've got business.

637
00:24:10,729 --> 00:24:12,574
I don't want that
kind of business.

638
00:24:12,574 --> 00:24:13,609
I really don't.

639
00:24:13,609 --> 00:24:18,425
So you want to
have it at all?

640
00:24:18,425 --> 00:24:21,184
Well, I mean, our
discussion here about

641
00:24:21,184 --> 00:24:26,089
Ashley Lake Oswego has
been very imprecise.

642
00:24:26,089 --> 00:24:29,120
We've we did
write a letter in

643
00:24:29,120 --> 00:24:32,675
the Ashland situation
just to make the point

644
00:24:32,675 --> 00:24:34,010
that the city has

645
00:24:34,010 --> 00:24:36,020
an obligation if
it's going to

646
00:24:36,020 --> 00:24:40,069
declare a portion of
the city buildable.

647
00:24:40,069 --> 00:24:41,269
If that affects it's

648
00:24:41,269 --> 00:24:42,410
buildable lands inventory,

649
00:24:42,410 --> 00:24:44,030
it's going to have
to go back and

650
00:24:44,030 --> 00:24:45,289
make revisions to it's

651
00:24:45,289 --> 00:24:47,465
buildable lands inventory.

652
00:24:47,465 --> 00:24:49,550
I don't really know what's

653
00:24:49,550 --> 00:24:50,719
going on in Lake Oswego,

654
00:24:50,719 --> 00:24:52,820
but we do watch carefully,

655
00:24:52,820 --> 00:24:55,699
and Lake Oswego
has to follow

656
00:24:55,699 --> 00:24:58,309
the metro framework
plan and they are

657
00:24:58,309 --> 00:24:59,600
ultimately responsible

658
00:24:59,600 --> 00:25:01,430
for implementing
goal ten as well.

659
00:25:01,430 --> 00:25:04,475
So we'll we'll
be watching it.

660
00:25:04,475 --> 00:25:06,830
I'm not aware
of Lake Oswego

661
00:25:06,830 --> 00:25:10,289
opting out of gold tan
that's news to me.

662
00:25:10,300 --> 00:25:13,769
But we certainly
will be watching.

663
00:25:13,990 --> 00:25:18,469
In the urban growth
functional plan

664
00:25:18,469 --> 00:25:21,660
that was passed in the
compliance section.

665
00:25:21,700 --> 00:25:24,665
There's a section
that says you won't

666
00:25:24,665 --> 00:25:26,630
get any transportation
dollars

667
00:25:26,630 --> 00:25:28,294
if you don't comply.

668
00:25:28,294 --> 00:25:30,170
There is somewhat of

669
00:25:30,170 --> 00:25:32,760
a hammer connected
with them.

670
00:25:32,930 --> 00:25:35,135
Might say, Well, fine,

671
00:25:35,135 --> 00:25:38,195
I don't want you only want

672
00:25:38,195 --> 00:25:39,739
transportation dollars
if you want to

673
00:25:39,739 --> 00:25:41,719
grow and provide a
better transportation.

674
00:25:41,719 --> 00:25:45,229
So one other point
I guess they would

675
00:25:45,229 --> 00:25:47,750
make in a city club speech

676
00:25:47,750 --> 00:25:49,504
short time ago, I
didn't hear it.

677
00:25:49,504 --> 00:25:52,879
I only heard repeat
what was said at it,

678
00:25:52,879 --> 00:25:54,079
but by Mike Burton

679
00:25:54,079 --> 00:25:55,909
indicating that
it responding

680
00:25:55,909 --> 00:25:58,894
to concerns
expressed about

681
00:25:58,894 --> 00:26:00,740
the recall election
in Milwaukee,

682
00:26:00,740 --> 00:26:03,440
said, let's remember that

683
00:26:03,440 --> 00:26:05,059
most of the communities in

684
00:26:05,059 --> 00:26:06,350
the metropolitan area are

685
00:26:06,350 --> 00:26:07,610
doing their best and

686
00:26:07,610 --> 00:26:08,719
doing very well in

687
00:26:08,719 --> 00:26:11,164
implementing the
framework plan.

688
00:26:11,164 --> 00:26:14,420
And it is our impression,

689
00:26:14,420 --> 00:26:16,220
at least from my
vantage point.

690
00:26:16,220 --> 00:26:17,674
And certainly we don't see

691
00:26:17,674 --> 00:26:19,595
everything that goes
on around the state.

692
00:26:19,595 --> 00:26:23,569
That most communities
do try to

693
00:26:23,569 --> 00:26:26,300
implement goals and meet

694
00:26:26,300 --> 00:26:28,280
their responsibilities
under the goal,

695
00:26:28,280 --> 00:26:31,159
we do have to
keep a keen eye

696
00:26:31,159 --> 00:26:34,670
for situations that
arise here and there.

697
00:26:34,670 --> 00:26:36,559
And there are some Wendy

698
00:26:36,559 --> 00:26:38,720
indicates and
that's one reason

699
00:26:38,720 --> 00:26:40,950
why we have a statewide
planning problem.

700
00:26:42,100 --> 00:26:44,969
You have a burning.

701
00:26:56,350 --> 00:26:58,550
My name is Jim Johnson.

702
00:26:58,550 --> 00:26:59,569
I am current chair of the

703
00:26:59,569 --> 00:27:01,384
Lake Oswego Planning
Commission.

704
00:27:01,384 --> 00:27:03,230
I strongly disagree with

705
00:27:03,230 --> 00:27:04,579
the statements
that the city of

706
00:27:04,579 --> 00:27:05,720
Lake Oswego

707
00:27:05,720 --> 00:27:07,159
and what they have
currently done in

708
00:27:07,159 --> 00:27:08,510
their growth
management policies

709
00:27:08,510 --> 00:27:10,115
with violet and goal ten,

710
00:27:10,115 --> 00:27:11,629
a lot of the
statements and

711
00:27:11,629 --> 00:27:13,340
the growth management
policy that Ms. Keller

712
00:27:13,340 --> 00:27:15,020
LinkedIn is
probably referring

713
00:27:15,020 --> 00:27:15,919
to are just that

714
00:27:15,919 --> 00:27:17,840
policy statements
that refer to

715
00:27:17,840 --> 00:27:18,979
things that they
would like to work

716
00:27:18,979 --> 00:27:20,374
towards in the future.

717
00:27:20,374 --> 00:27:22,309
The city of Lake Oswego.

718
00:27:22,309 --> 00:27:23,870
As we are trying to do

719
00:27:23,870 --> 00:27:25,339
some of these growth
management policies are

720
00:27:25,339 --> 00:27:27,500
also recognizing
that there

721
00:27:27,500 --> 00:27:28,640
is state law in place

722
00:27:28,640 --> 00:27:29,209
and that we're going to

723
00:27:29,209 --> 00:27:29,900
have to plan for that.

724
00:27:29,900 --> 00:27:31,160
And we are in
the process of

725
00:27:31,160 --> 00:27:33,349
planning for the
Stafford base and

726
00:27:33,349 --> 00:27:34,970
in the case that we do

727
00:27:34,970 --> 00:27:35,779
have to develop and

728
00:27:35,779 --> 00:27:36,949
take control of that area,

729
00:27:36,949 --> 00:27:38,270
we don't like
it, but we are

730
00:27:38,270 --> 00:27:40,039
doing that
planning process.

731
00:27:40,039 --> 00:27:42,079
So say that
we're violating

732
00:27:42,079 --> 00:27:44,974
gold tan or opting
out of gold tan.

733
00:27:44,974 --> 00:27:46,879
That's that's
just not true.

734
00:27:46,879 --> 00:27:48,995
It may be a difference
of opinion.

735
00:27:48,995 --> 00:27:51,050
The city of Lake
Oswego is much

736
00:27:51,050 --> 00:27:53,089
more concerned
about the cost of

737
00:27:53,089 --> 00:27:54,019
providing services

738
00:27:54,019 --> 00:27:54,979
to that development
than they

739
00:27:54,979 --> 00:27:57,199
are of of stopping
development.

740
00:27:57,199 --> 00:27:58,820
And I think that's

741
00:27:58,820 --> 00:28:00,020
a different issue than

742
00:28:00,020 --> 00:28:02,300
saying the sweep
Lake Oswego, e.g.

743
00:28:02,300 --> 00:28:04,189
voted not to put

744
00:28:04,189 --> 00:28:05,929
annexation to the
vote of the people.

745
00:28:05,929 --> 00:28:07,429
The council's
already basically in

746
00:28:07,429 --> 00:28:08,330
the first step said we're

747
00:28:08,330 --> 00:28:09,589
not going to do that.

748
00:28:09,589 --> 00:28:13,279
So I basically
wanted to say I

749
00:28:13,279 --> 00:28:14,749
strongly disagree with
the statement that

750
00:28:14,749 --> 00:28:16,834
Lake Oswego is
opting out of gold.

751
00:28:16,834 --> 00:28:18,349
And we have our concerns

752
00:28:18,349 --> 00:28:19,099
with some of the things

753
00:28:19,099 --> 00:28:20,569
in growth
management issues

754
00:28:20,569 --> 00:28:21,350
in the metro area,

755
00:28:21,350 --> 00:28:22,099
but we have not

756
00:28:22,099 --> 00:28:23,390
opted out of gold
tint effect.

757
00:28:23,390 --> 00:28:25,520
We were one of the
first jurisdictions

758
00:28:25,520 --> 00:28:26,900
in the metro area to
start to implement

759
00:28:26,900 --> 00:28:31,699
some of the
framework plan that.

760
00:28:31,699 --> 00:28:33,365
So we don't get
into a debate.

761
00:28:33,365 --> 00:28:35,480
You haven't, and
you're saying we've

762
00:28:35,480 --> 00:28:38,240
heard from Wendy and we

763
00:28:38,240 --> 00:28:39,619
would be more than
happy to come and

764
00:28:39,619 --> 00:28:41,120
give you a presentation
on what we

765
00:28:41,120 --> 00:28:43,699
have adopted at anytime

766
00:28:43,699 --> 00:28:45,710
in the future, if
you'd like to do that.

767
00:28:45,710 --> 00:28:49,144
Good. I appreciate
your thing.

768
00:28:49,144 --> 00:28:50,990
I'm going to leave it
for the staff to watch.

769
00:28:50,990 --> 00:28:52,220
But I think it's

770
00:28:52,220 --> 00:28:53,780
still goes without
saying and I think

771
00:28:53,780 --> 00:28:55,489
you would agree from
your long history of

772
00:28:55,489 --> 00:28:57,485
us that we have a
concern about goals?

773
00:28:57,485 --> 00:28:59,375
Oh, I did hear about it or

774
00:28:59,375 --> 00:29:01,640
our interests does
medially well,

775
00:29:01,640 --> 00:29:03,380
I'll put my other
hat on as a as

776
00:29:03,380 --> 00:29:04,609
an agricultural
lands planet

777
00:29:04,609 --> 00:29:05,899
for the Department
of Agriculture,

778
00:29:05,899 --> 00:29:07,130
I'm definitely
concerned about

779
00:29:07,130 --> 00:29:08,690
what goes inside on,

780
00:29:08,690 --> 00:29:10,265
inside urban growth
numbers because

781
00:29:10,265 --> 00:29:12,169
efficient and
effective use inside

782
00:29:12,169 --> 00:29:14,359
a boundary ensures
that we don't have to

783
00:29:14,359 --> 00:29:16,789
expand that boundary
onto our best farmlands.

784
00:29:16,789 --> 00:29:18,260
And of course, we have
concerns about that

785
00:29:18,260 --> 00:29:20,269
if the Department of
Agriculture right.

786
00:29:20,269 --> 00:29:22,310
I'll send you the policy

787
00:29:22,310 --> 00:29:23,809
that he just talked
about and I'll

788
00:29:23,809 --> 00:29:26,119
send you the
article and send it

789
00:29:26,119 --> 00:29:27,380
to the Senate to
staff because

790
00:29:27,380 --> 00:29:28,700
I'm sure they're
gonna be watching it.

791
00:29:28,700 --> 00:29:32,090
And if there's any
reason to take action,

792
00:29:32,090 --> 00:29:34,084
we certainly will, but

793
00:29:34,084 --> 00:29:36,469
we'll see what happens.

794
00:29:36,469 --> 00:29:38,549
Thank you. Thank you both.

795
00:29:45,610 --> 00:29:47,359
Let's go to the minutes

796
00:29:47,359 --> 00:29:48,635
of the previous meeting

797
00:29:48,635 --> 00:29:51,049
which we don't have.

798
00:29:51,049 --> 00:29:53,120
So we will move right

799
00:29:53,120 --> 00:29:55,500
along to issues pending.

800
00:29:56,950 --> 00:29:59,029
You're going to
try to wind up

801
00:29:59,029 --> 00:30:01,309
your meeting
by noon today.

802
00:30:01,309 --> 00:30:03,169
It'll probably be
the last meeting in

803
00:30:03,169 --> 00:30:04,190
a long time that you have

804
00:30:04,190 --> 00:30:06,484
an opportunity to
have a short meeting.

805
00:30:06,484 --> 00:30:09,920
Because beginning at
the March meeting and

806
00:30:09,920 --> 00:30:11,959
then virtually
every meeting after

807
00:30:11,959 --> 00:30:14,090
that for a considerable
amount of time,

808
00:30:14,090 --> 00:30:15,920
we will have at least one

809
00:30:15,920 --> 00:30:18,260
rulemaking matter
ending before you,

810
00:30:18,260 --> 00:30:20,164
either a hearing,

811
00:30:20,164 --> 00:30:24,215
workshop or an actual
adoption proposal.

812
00:30:24,215 --> 00:30:26,899
You'll see on
the March agenda

813
00:30:26,899 --> 00:30:29,690
that on the second page,

814
00:30:29,690 --> 00:30:31,684
you'll be looking at the

815
00:30:31,684 --> 00:30:33,620
periodic review
rule amendment.

816
00:30:33,620 --> 00:30:35,780
That's a short one that

817
00:30:35,780 --> 00:30:38,194
comes out of legislation

818
00:30:38,194 --> 00:30:41,000
97 session that I had

819
00:30:41,000 --> 00:30:42,184
some flexibility to

820
00:30:42,184 --> 00:30:43,954
our periodic
review process.

821
00:30:43,954 --> 00:30:46,370
And then we'll
have a hearing on

822
00:30:46,370 --> 00:30:49,670
proposed amendments
to goals 3.4 that

823
00:30:49,670 --> 00:30:53,404
is largely also responsive
to changes made

824
00:30:53,404 --> 00:30:56,660
to statutes

825
00:30:56,660 --> 00:30:58,879
affecting farmland
and forest land.

826
00:30:58,879 --> 00:31:01,940
But we're probably also
going to bring to you

827
00:31:01,940 --> 00:31:06,170
some minor points that
we've become aware of.

828
00:31:06,170 --> 00:31:08,149
Implementation of
those two rules

829
00:31:08,149 --> 00:31:09,830
are particularly
goal three.

830
00:31:09,830 --> 00:31:12,290
And we will probably also

831
00:31:12,290 --> 00:31:14,630
make a proposal
to you about how

832
00:31:14,630 --> 00:31:17,240
to apply the 80,000
dollar test for

833
00:31:17,240 --> 00:31:18,890
fine dwellings in

834
00:31:18,890 --> 00:31:22,265
the high-value farmland
in the farm zone.

835
00:31:22,265 --> 00:31:23,930
An issue that's
been hanging

836
00:31:23,930 --> 00:31:26,389
around for awhile.

837
00:31:26,389 --> 00:31:29,780
So those are the
principal things.

838
00:31:29,780 --> 00:31:33,259
Also, we have
second item number

839
00:31:33,259 --> 00:31:34,654
six on page one,

840
00:31:34,654 --> 00:31:37,444
which is another
roommate waiver.

841
00:31:37,444 --> 00:31:39,439
The hospital the
very bottom yes.

842
00:31:39,439 --> 00:31:40,729
Age. That's only
tentatively

843
00:31:40,729 --> 00:31:41,719
identified as the second

844
00:31:41,719 --> 00:31:42,949
six on the final agenda.

845
00:31:42,949 --> 00:31:43,955
That will be number seven.

846
00:31:43,955 --> 00:31:45,080
Okay. Then we won't

847
00:31:45,080 --> 00:31:46,460
have to have five-star

848
00:31:46,460 --> 00:31:48,780
on the next page
either early enough.

849
00:31:50,740 --> 00:31:54,109
In every once in awhile.

850
00:31:54,109 --> 00:31:55,039
We haven't had one of

851
00:31:55,039 --> 00:31:56,269
these and several years,

852
00:31:56,269 --> 00:31:57,304
but you'll see items

853
00:31:57,304 --> 00:31:59,209
the first item
number five,

854
00:31:59,209 --> 00:32:04,279
proposal by Washoe
County to have

855
00:32:04,279 --> 00:32:06,319
a minimum parcel size
for the creation of

856
00:32:06,319 --> 00:32:07,670
new parcels in a form in

857
00:32:07,670 --> 00:32:09,829
a portion of
their farm lands,

858
00:32:09,829 --> 00:32:11,555
less than 80 acres.

859
00:32:11,555 --> 00:32:14,949
So it'll be a full agenda.

860
00:32:14,949 --> 00:32:25,160
Okay. Okay. Guandu to
Adam for briefing.

861
00:32:25,160 --> 00:32:30,600
This you're running
this on 14 project.

862
00:32:35,130 --> 00:32:37,179
Good morning,
chair blast or

863
00:32:37,179 --> 00:32:38,470
members of the
commission, I mean,

864
00:32:38,470 --> 00:32:44,154
lain Smith on the deal
CDS staff. This item.

865
00:32:44,154 --> 00:32:45,640
I found a certain point in

866
00:32:45,640 --> 00:32:47,409
C and listening
to the recording

867
00:32:47,409 --> 00:32:49,479
of Governor McCall before

868
00:32:49,479 --> 00:32:51,655
bringing this item to you.

869
00:32:51,655 --> 00:32:54,999
It really brought us
a feeling of pride in

870
00:32:54,999 --> 00:32:57,550
this program and what

871
00:32:57,550 --> 00:33:00,580
we've accomplished, what
you've accomplished.

872
00:33:00,580 --> 00:33:02,619
And it also made me

873
00:33:02,619 --> 00:33:06,024
realize how much you
still need to do.

874
00:33:06,024 --> 00:33:07,659
And that's what
I'm going to

875
00:33:07,659 --> 00:33:09,459
talk about today
with reference

876
00:33:09,459 --> 00:33:11,409
to urban growth
management and

877
00:33:11,409 --> 00:33:13,825
development inside urban
growth boundaries.

878
00:33:13,825 --> 00:33:15,745
This agenda item gives

879
00:33:15,745 --> 00:33:19,585
the commission an
opportunity to examine

880
00:33:19,585 --> 00:33:21,009
growth management
issues from

881
00:33:21,009 --> 00:33:22,825
the perspective of Gulf 14

882
00:33:22,825 --> 00:33:26,619
and the other urban
girls as we call them,

883
00:33:26,619 --> 00:33:28,900
and provide some
direction to

884
00:33:28,900 --> 00:33:34,150
staff regarding
addressing these issues.

885
00:33:34,150 --> 00:33:37,015
Dlc D staff,
the commission,

886
00:33:37,015 --> 00:33:38,440
and really the state as

887
00:33:38,440 --> 00:33:40,689
a whole in recent years,

888
00:33:40,689 --> 00:33:44,274
has become
increasingly aware

889
00:33:44,274 --> 00:33:46,749
that we need to
reconsider how growth

890
00:33:46,749 --> 00:33:49,429
occurs inside urban
growth boundaries.

891
00:33:49,429 --> 00:33:52,420
The commission
concluded in 1991 when

892
00:33:52,420 --> 00:33:56,110
it adopted the transportation
planning rule,

893
00:33:56,110 --> 00:34:00,055
that this issue needed
to be addressed.

894
00:34:00,055 --> 00:34:01,824
In this conclusion
is quoted

895
00:34:01,824 --> 00:34:04,899
on page two of
your staff report.

896
00:34:04,899 --> 00:34:08,574
That was made in
the context of

897
00:34:08,574 --> 00:34:10,479
improving the
efficiency of

898
00:34:10,479 --> 00:34:12,639
our transportation
systems.

899
00:34:12,639 --> 00:34:14,859
Of course, there
are other aspects

900
00:34:14,859 --> 00:34:16,300
of the states live
ability that are

901
00:34:16,300 --> 00:34:18,249
affected by the way
our communities

902
00:34:18,249 --> 00:34:20,575
grow with insider but
growth boundaries.

903
00:34:20,575 --> 00:34:22,029
One was just mentioned,

904
00:34:22,029 --> 00:34:24,519
the expansion
of the need to

905
00:34:24,519 --> 00:34:27,025
expand urban
growth boundaries

906
00:34:27,025 --> 00:34:30,145
and onto farm
or forest land.

907
00:34:30,145 --> 00:34:32,724
Others are reducing
air pollution,

908
00:34:32,724 --> 00:34:34,255
conserving energy,

909
00:34:34,255 --> 00:34:37,030
and maintaining the
overall quality

910
00:34:37,030 --> 00:34:39,444
of life or guardians.

911
00:34:39,444 --> 00:34:41,589
In the early 1990s,

912
00:34:41,589 --> 00:34:43,330
the task group on
development inside

913
00:34:43,330 --> 00:34:45,189
urban growth
boundaries made

914
00:34:45,189 --> 00:34:47,709
several recommendations
for tools to help

915
00:34:47,709 --> 00:34:50,170
local jurisdictions
manage growth

916
00:34:50,170 --> 00:34:52,450
inside the urban
growth boundaries.

917
00:34:52,450 --> 00:34:54,639
The few of the
recommendations were actually

918
00:34:54,639 --> 00:34:56,440
adopted by the
legislature.

919
00:34:56,440 --> 00:34:58,645
Those were urban
service agreements

920
00:34:58,645 --> 00:35:01,690
in special district
cooperative agreements.

921
00:35:01,690 --> 00:35:04,720
And they are required
of local governments.

922
00:35:04,720 --> 00:35:07,060
Now, for all of the tools,

923
00:35:07,060 --> 00:35:11,559
the TPM program has
invested considerably in

924
00:35:11,559 --> 00:35:14,664
technical and
financial resources

925
00:35:14,664 --> 00:35:16,599
to encourage
local governments

926
00:35:16,599 --> 00:35:18,100
to implement

927
00:35:18,100 --> 00:35:19,840
the urban growth
management tools

928
00:35:19,840 --> 00:35:22,970
that were developed
by that task group.

929
00:35:25,050 --> 00:35:29,559
Well, DLC def staff
feels that we've made

930
00:35:29,559 --> 00:35:32,229
some significant
progress in

931
00:35:32,229 --> 00:35:34,344
what we've done
in this area.

932
00:35:34,344 --> 00:35:37,344
We also feel that
there are some gaps.

933
00:35:37,344 --> 00:35:40,149
These gaps are apparent on

934
00:35:40,149 --> 00:35:42,610
a daily basis as we

935
00:35:42,610 --> 00:35:44,589
struggled to address
the plan amendments

936
00:35:44,589 --> 00:35:46,150
that come in our door,

937
00:35:46,150 --> 00:35:47,650
or to provide guidance

938
00:35:47,650 --> 00:35:49,944
on broader
planning efforts,

939
00:35:49,944 --> 00:35:52,780
such as accommodating
housing needs

940
00:35:52,780 --> 00:35:54,624
inside urban
growth boundary.

941
00:35:54,624 --> 00:35:57,294
We often feel that
were not adequately

942
00:35:57,294 --> 00:36:00,294
equipped to address
the matters.

943
00:36:00,294 --> 00:36:03,070
And some of the
problems that we

944
00:36:03,070 --> 00:36:05,845
see our continuation
of Strip Development,

945
00:36:05,845 --> 00:36:06,640
commercial and

946
00:36:06,640 --> 00:36:09,139
otherwise urban
growth boundary

947
00:36:09,139 --> 00:36:12,215
expansion proposals
without a real need.

948
00:36:12,215 --> 00:36:15,409
Because the local
jurisdiction,

949
00:36:15,409 --> 00:36:17,210
the city, hasn't used land

950
00:36:17,210 --> 00:36:20,120
efficiently in the
urban growth boundary.

951
00:36:20,120 --> 00:36:22,580
More development
at interchanges at

952
00:36:22,580 --> 00:36:24,260
the expense of
the existing

953
00:36:24,260 --> 00:36:26,089
community centers.

954
00:36:26,089 --> 00:36:27,965
Facilities chasing

955
00:36:27,965 --> 00:36:32,089
not leading
development policies

956
00:36:32,089 --> 00:36:33,694
and public facilities

957
00:36:33,694 --> 00:36:35,705
planning that
aren't clear.

958
00:36:35,705 --> 00:36:36,575
Different,

959
00:36:36,575 --> 00:36:38,300
they're different in
different places.

960
00:36:38,300 --> 00:36:40,610
The public facilities
don't really provide

961
00:36:40,610 --> 00:36:44,599
a clear background
backbone for growth.

962
00:36:44,599 --> 00:36:47,300
Existing plans.

963
00:36:47,300 --> 00:36:50,779
Who developed a lot
of them 20 years ago?

964
00:36:50,779 --> 00:36:52,339
Foster sprawl,

965
00:36:52,339 --> 00:36:54,860
foster or the type of
development that we

966
00:36:54,860 --> 00:36:57,740
really are trying
not to accomplish

967
00:36:57,740 --> 00:36:59,569
that aren't efficient for

968
00:36:59,569 --> 00:37:01,970
transportation
reasons and others.

969
00:37:01,970 --> 00:37:03,920
And continuation of

970
00:37:03,920 --> 00:37:07,070
low-density development
in urbanized areas,

971
00:37:07,070 --> 00:37:09,604
such as five-acre lots

972
00:37:09,604 --> 00:37:10,984
outside of cities and

973
00:37:10,984 --> 00:37:13,490
inside urban
growth boundaries.

974
00:37:13,490 --> 00:37:17,569
The attachment to the
report lists 12 issues

975
00:37:17,569 --> 00:37:18,709
pertaining to

976
00:37:18,709 --> 00:37:20,419
orderly and efficient
development

977
00:37:20,419 --> 00:37:21,769
within UNDP's.

978
00:37:21,769 --> 00:37:23,105
And if you like,

979
00:37:23,105 --> 00:37:25,189
I would be happy to
review the seven

980
00:37:25,189 --> 00:37:28,619
listed as the high
priority issues.

981
00:37:29,140 --> 00:37:32,269
The first one is

982
00:37:32,269 --> 00:37:34,789
coordination of
population projections.

983
00:37:34,789 --> 00:37:37,940
And this is something
that is key

984
00:37:37,940 --> 00:37:40,370
to coordinating
and managing

985
00:37:40,370 --> 00:37:42,784
growth throughout
the state.

986
00:37:42,784 --> 00:37:46,250
Or as 1905036,
which is adopted in

987
00:37:46,250 --> 00:37:50,794
1995 as part of that
House Bill 2709,

988
00:37:50,794 --> 00:37:53,089
says the coordinating body

989
00:37:53,089 --> 00:37:55,129
and that's metro
or the county.

990
00:37:55,129 --> 00:37:57,199
Unless you're in
metro or the Eugene,

991
00:37:57,199 --> 00:37:58,565
Springfield area.

992
00:37:58,565 --> 00:38:00,575
The coordinating body.

993
00:38:00,575 --> 00:38:02,240
Shall establish
and maintain

994
00:38:02,240 --> 00:38:04,940
a population forecast
for the entire area

995
00:38:04,940 --> 00:38:06,500
within its boundary
for use of

996
00:38:06,500 --> 00:38:09,410
maintaining and updating
comprehensive plans.

997
00:38:09,410 --> 00:38:11,510
And she'll coordinate
the forecast with

998
00:38:11,510 --> 00:38:14,540
the local governments
within its boundary.

999
00:38:14,540 --> 00:38:17,314
From a growth
management standpoint

1000
00:38:17,314 --> 00:38:18,709
and from the standpoint

1001
00:38:18,709 --> 00:38:23,644
of efficiently managing
state resources,

1002
00:38:23,644 --> 00:38:26,495
coordinating
population projections

1003
00:38:26,495 --> 00:38:28,775
is extremely important.

1004
00:38:28,775 --> 00:38:30,935
However, we
found this to be

1005
00:38:30,935 --> 00:38:33,574
a rather complex issue.

1006
00:38:33,574 --> 00:38:35,570
What's required
to coordinate

1007
00:38:35,570 --> 00:38:36,739
population projections?

1008
00:38:36,739 --> 00:38:38,030
There's lots of questions

1009
00:38:38,030 --> 00:38:38,885
that come up in this.

1010
00:38:38,885 --> 00:38:40,969
What process of
coordination

1011
00:38:40,969 --> 00:38:43,125
is effective
and reasonable?

1012
00:38:43,125 --> 00:38:44,709
What constitutes

1013
00:38:44,709 --> 00:38:47,544
an adequate adequate
factual base?

1014
00:38:47,544 --> 00:38:51,280
When should counties
complete this task?

1015
00:38:51,280 --> 00:38:54,220
What projections does
a city used when it is

1016
00:38:54,220 --> 00:38:57,310
conducting a major
major planning project,

1017
00:38:57,310 --> 00:38:59,289
such as a transportation
system plan

1018
00:38:59,289 --> 00:39:01,239
if the county
hasn't completed

1019
00:39:01,239 --> 00:39:02,829
this project and no

1020
00:39:02,829 --> 00:39:04,060
coordinated population

1021
00:39:04,060 --> 00:39:06,175
projections that
are available.

1022
00:39:06,175 --> 00:39:08,935
Clear procedures
and guidance are

1023
00:39:08,935 --> 00:39:11,860
needed on this
particular issue.

1024
00:39:11,860 --> 00:39:15,549
Second, we haven't
provided some guidance to

1025
00:39:15,549 --> 00:39:16,689
local jurisdictions

1026
00:39:16,689 --> 00:39:18,384
regarding the
determination

1027
00:39:18,384 --> 00:39:20,499
and accommodation
of commercial,

1028
00:39:20,499 --> 00:39:22,059
industrial, and
other employment

1029
00:39:22,059 --> 00:39:24,144
needs inside you GBs.

1030
00:39:24,144 --> 00:39:26,389
We've done this, I

1031
00:39:26,389 --> 00:39:28,670
think fairly well
for housing needs,

1032
00:39:28,670 --> 00:39:33,319
but we really haven't
provided a good way to

1033
00:39:33,319 --> 00:39:35,089
evaluate a proposal for

1034
00:39:35,089 --> 00:39:36,800
designating a large price

1035
00:39:36,800 --> 00:39:39,215
though this is an example.

1036
00:39:39,215 --> 00:39:41,150
Evaluate a proposal for

1037
00:39:41,150 --> 00:39:43,069
redesignated a large
parcel of land

1038
00:39:43,069 --> 00:39:44,960
from industrial
to commercial

1039
00:39:44,960 --> 00:39:46,939
or residential use.

1040
00:39:46,939 --> 00:39:49,760
How much commercial
land is needed,

1041
00:39:49,760 --> 00:39:51,679
how much industrial
land is needed,

1042
00:39:51,679 --> 00:39:53,465
how much is too much?

1043
00:39:53,465 --> 00:39:54,800
We don't have good answers

1044
00:39:54,800 --> 00:39:56,570
to these questions.

1045
00:39:56,570 --> 00:39:59,210
The third issue has to do

1046
00:39:59,210 --> 00:40:01,445
with the mixed
use designation,

1047
00:40:01,445 --> 00:40:03,919
and we like to
encourage this.

1048
00:40:03,919 --> 00:40:05,059
There are transportation

1049
00:40:05,059 --> 00:40:06,709
efficiencies
that are gained

1050
00:40:06,709 --> 00:40:11,210
from using mixed use in
the right place this.

1051
00:40:11,210 --> 00:40:13,220
But how do we
assure that there's

1052
00:40:13,220 --> 00:40:14,990
adequate land
available inside

1053
00:40:14,990 --> 00:40:16,760
a huge EGB for
each type of

1054
00:40:16,760 --> 00:40:17,989
land use when mixed

1055
00:40:17,989 --> 00:40:20,119
use designations
are applied,

1056
00:40:20,119 --> 00:40:22,609
a current administrative
rules make

1057
00:40:22,609 --> 00:40:23,989
application of mixed use

1058
00:40:23,989 --> 00:40:26,390
designations difficult.

1059
00:40:26,390 --> 00:40:31,650
For has to do with
factor three of goal 14.

1060
00:40:31,960 --> 00:40:34,864
Factor three says that

1061
00:40:34,864 --> 00:40:37,249
change of a UDP
Shelby based on

1062
00:40:37,249 --> 00:40:38,344
consideration of

1063
00:40:38,344 --> 00:40:40,370
orderly and
economic provision

1064
00:40:40,370 --> 00:40:42,380
for public facilities.

1065
00:40:42,380 --> 00:40:44,660
But we have no
clear guidance

1066
00:40:44,660 --> 00:40:45,769
regarding the level of

1067
00:40:45,769 --> 00:40:47,359
analysis and
planning needed

1068
00:40:47,359 --> 00:40:49,505
to amend an urban
growth boundary.

1069
00:40:49,505 --> 00:40:51,934
Do we require that

1070
00:40:51,934 --> 00:40:53,930
a local jurisdiction
simply look

1071
00:40:53,930 --> 00:40:55,864
at a feasibility analysis

1072
00:40:55,864 --> 00:40:58,414
for providing facilities
in the future.

1073
00:40:58,414 --> 00:41:01,730
Do we require a full
public facilities plan

1074
00:41:01,730 --> 00:41:02,779
at the time that an urban

1075
00:41:02,779 --> 00:41:04,415
growth boundary
is amended?

1076
00:41:04,415 --> 00:41:07,140
Or is it something
in-between?

1077
00:41:07,180 --> 00:41:10,550
Fifth factor
for go 14 says

1078
00:41:10,550 --> 00:41:13,010
that the change of a
UDP shall be based

1079
00:41:13,010 --> 00:41:15,679
on consideration of
maximum efficiency of

1080
00:41:15,679 --> 00:41:17,479
land uses within and
on the fringe of

1081
00:41:17,479 --> 00:41:20,210
the existing urban area.

1082
00:41:20,210 --> 00:41:22,700
Although the
department encourages

1083
00:41:22,700 --> 00:41:24,350
local jurisdictions
to adopt

1084
00:41:24,350 --> 00:41:26,630
tools such as interim
development standards

1085
00:41:26,630 --> 00:41:28,939
and minimum
density standards.

1086
00:41:28,939 --> 00:41:31,519
There is no clear guidance

1087
00:41:31,519 --> 00:41:34,175
to address this issue.

1088
00:41:34,175 --> 00:41:36,785
And the issue is
further complicated by

1089
00:41:36,785 --> 00:41:39,665
not having a definition
of urban area.

1090
00:41:39,665 --> 00:41:42,515
In the context
of that factor,

1091
00:41:42,515 --> 00:41:44,135
it sounds like
we're talking about

1092
00:41:44,135 --> 00:41:44,749
anything that's

1093
00:41:44,749 --> 00:41:46,069
inside the urban
growth boundary,

1094
00:41:46,069 --> 00:41:47,989
at least that's the way
I would interpret it.

1095
00:41:47,989 --> 00:41:50,194
But one of the
conversion factors

1096
00:41:50,194 --> 00:41:52,519
uses the same term
and it makes it sound

1097
00:41:52,519 --> 00:41:55,459
like we're really
talking about the area

1098
00:41:55,459 --> 00:41:56,944
that's pretty
much developed

1099
00:41:56,944 --> 00:41:58,639
inside an urban
growth boundary,

1100
00:41:58,639 --> 00:42:00,665
exclusive of
the developable

1101
00:42:00,665 --> 00:42:02,795
are urbanized double area.

1102
00:42:02,795 --> 00:42:05,525
Six, the conversion
factors are

1103
00:42:05,525 --> 00:42:09,169
only policy that directly

1104
00:42:09,169 --> 00:42:10,984
addresses how
growth occurs,

1105
00:42:10,984 --> 00:42:12,529
insider and growth
boundaries and

1106
00:42:12,529 --> 00:42:13,939
the TPR has touched

1107
00:42:13,939 --> 00:42:14,840
on this a little bit more.

1108
00:42:14,840 --> 00:42:17,240
I shouldn't say it's
the only policy.

1109
00:42:17,240 --> 00:42:21,800
But we really have
scanned direction in in

1110
00:42:21,800 --> 00:42:23,810
our policies
regarding managing

1111
00:42:23,810 --> 00:42:26,944
urban growth and the
urban form issue.

1112
00:42:26,944 --> 00:42:29,060
This lack of direction and

1113
00:42:29,060 --> 00:42:31,685
inattention to factor for

1114
00:42:31,685 --> 00:42:34,834
encouragement of
development with urban

1115
00:42:34,834 --> 00:42:37,490
within urban areas
before conversion

1116
00:42:37,490 --> 00:42:40,730
of urbanized areas has

1117
00:42:40,730 --> 00:42:44,280
contributed to sprawl
inside the uji bees.

1118
00:42:45,280 --> 00:42:48,800
Elaboration and
guidance on addressing

1119
00:42:48,800 --> 00:42:50,464
the conversion
factors could address

1120
00:42:50,464 --> 00:42:52,820
urban form and
efficiency issues.

1121
00:42:52,820 --> 00:42:54,229
Primarily the density and

1122
00:42:54,229 --> 00:42:56,014
pattern of growth issues,

1123
00:42:56,014 --> 00:42:59,210
and how growth occurs
inside the uji B's.

1124
00:42:59,210 --> 00:43:01,639
This relates directly
to the policy

1125
00:43:01,639 --> 00:43:03,680
adopted by the commission

1126
00:43:03,680 --> 00:43:05,930
in 1991 regarding how

1127
00:43:05,930 --> 00:43:08,149
growth occurs
inside the GBs.

1128
00:43:08,149 --> 00:43:10,160
And it has
significant overlap

1129
00:43:10,160 --> 00:43:11,509
with the work
that you're doing

1130
00:43:11,509 --> 00:43:15,709
now on TPR revisions.

1131
00:43:15,709 --> 00:43:17,719
Seventh, there are

1132
00:43:17,719 --> 00:43:19,129
some significant
procedural

1133
00:43:19,129 --> 00:43:20,359
interpretation issues

1134
00:43:20,359 --> 00:43:22,129
regarding
amending the UDP.

1135
00:43:22,129 --> 00:43:23,630
And I'll focus on I

1136
00:43:23,630 --> 00:43:25,639
think what are
the major two?

1137
00:43:25,639 --> 00:43:27,079
One is the requirement

1138
00:43:27,079 --> 00:43:28,310
to apply the
procedures and

1139
00:43:28,310 --> 00:43:31,699
requirements of the
acceptance process

1140
00:43:31,699 --> 00:43:33,964
and the exceptions
process.

1141
00:43:33,964 --> 00:43:35,990
It does provide
value in that it

1142
00:43:35,990 --> 00:43:37,909
requires us to or

1143
00:43:37,909 --> 00:43:39,845
local jurisdiction
to look at

1144
00:43:39,845 --> 00:43:42,635
alternatives to
expanding and UDP.

1145
00:43:42,635 --> 00:43:45,200
The exceptions process was

1146
00:43:45,200 --> 00:43:46,789
created to deal with

1147
00:43:46,789 --> 00:43:48,920
the situation where a
local government has

1148
00:43:48,920 --> 00:43:52,580
compelling reasons not
to comply with a goal.

1149
00:43:52,580 --> 00:43:56,029
Goal 14 expressly allows

1150
00:43:56,029 --> 00:43:59,659
or local jurisdictions
to expand UG bees.

1151
00:43:59,659 --> 00:44:01,610
Applications of
the exceptions

1152
00:44:01,610 --> 00:44:03,980
process to go 14,

1153
00:44:03,980 --> 00:44:07,280
change really requires
a certain amount

1154
00:44:07,280 --> 00:44:10,730
of what I would call
creative interpretation.

1155
00:44:10,730 --> 00:44:12,800
The other most
significant of

1156
00:44:12,800 --> 00:44:15,679
the four procedural
issues that are listed in

1157
00:44:15,679 --> 00:44:17,390
the staff report is

1158
00:44:17,390 --> 00:44:19,160
a question of the extent
to which the goal

1159
00:44:19,160 --> 00:44:21,499
14 factors must
be addressed when

1160
00:44:21,499 --> 00:44:24,989
expanding a UDP within
an urban reserve.

1161
00:44:24,989 --> 00:44:27,069
Because these
at least three

1162
00:44:27,069 --> 00:44:28,689
through seven factors are

1163
00:44:28,689 --> 00:44:30,130
addressed at the time that

1164
00:44:30,130 --> 00:44:32,890
an urban reserve is
established or sort of,

1165
00:44:32,890 --> 00:44:36,505
gee, how far do we
need to do this again?

1166
00:44:36,505 --> 00:44:39,790
In conclusion, some of

1167
00:44:39,790 --> 00:44:41,650
the issues I've
listed here are

1168
00:44:41,650 --> 00:44:44,380
substantive with
regard to providing

1169
00:44:44,380 --> 00:44:46,000
guidance on urban
growth management

1170
00:44:46,000 --> 00:44:47,770
inside UG bees.

1171
00:44:47,770 --> 00:44:50,140
Some are procedural
in nature,

1172
00:44:50,140 --> 00:44:53,110
some almost seem
housekeeping in nature.

1173
00:44:53,110 --> 00:44:55,195
But what's
important is that

1174
00:44:55,195 --> 00:44:57,504
all of them in one
way or another,

1175
00:44:57,504 --> 00:45:00,339
affect the ability of
local governments to

1176
00:45:00,339 --> 00:45:03,279
address urban growth
issues and the ability

1177
00:45:03,279 --> 00:45:06,684
of the state provide
clear guidance and

1178
00:45:06,684 --> 00:45:08,899
about IT expectations and

1179
00:45:08,899 --> 00:45:11,239
interests regarding
these issues.

1180
00:45:11,239 --> 00:45:13,490
All of them affect
the ability of

1181
00:45:13,490 --> 00:45:15,230
the state and local
governments to

1182
00:45:15,230 --> 00:45:17,000
provide orderly

1183
00:45:17,000 --> 00:45:19,954
and efficient
development inside GGB.

1184
00:45:19,954 --> 00:45:21,979
There are a
variety of ways

1185
00:45:21,979 --> 00:45:23,060
that we can address

1186
00:45:23,060 --> 00:45:24,800
these issues and
those are listed on

1187
00:45:24,800 --> 00:45:27,544
the bottom of page four
of your staff report.

1188
00:45:27,544 --> 00:45:29,794
You appropriate means for

1189
00:45:29,794 --> 00:45:33,004
identifying the
potential remedies.

1190
00:45:33,004 --> 00:45:34,429
And that's mentioned on

1191
00:45:34,429 --> 00:45:35,765
the first page, I think,

1192
00:45:35,765 --> 00:45:38,540
would be to work
this through with

1193
00:45:38,540 --> 00:45:42,814
a group or groups
of stakeholders.

1194
00:45:42,814 --> 00:45:46,265
And to look at ways

1195
00:45:46,265 --> 00:45:49,714
of applying are doing
different things.

1196
00:45:49,714 --> 00:45:51,725
Depending on
the situation,

1197
00:45:51,725 --> 00:45:54,185
the size of the
jurisdiction,

1198
00:45:54,185 --> 00:45:57,260
the region,
whether technical

1199
00:45:57,260 --> 00:46:00,815
assistance or some
other policies needed.

1200
00:46:00,815 --> 00:46:03,719
That concludes my report.

1201
00:46:06,910 --> 00:46:11,059
We have one person who
wanted to testify.

1202
00:46:11,059 --> 00:46:13,400
Why don't we take
that testimony and

1203
00:46:13,400 --> 00:46:14,359
then we'll come
back to you

1204
00:46:14,359 --> 00:46:15,845
and we'll have
a discussion.

1205
00:46:15,845 --> 00:46:19,054
Because what Phil,
Phil has to say might

1206
00:46:19,054 --> 00:46:20,720
help with our whole

1207
00:46:20,720 --> 00:46:22,129
question of the
discussion.

1208
00:46:22,129 --> 00:46:23,760
We want to have

1209
00:46:28,730 --> 00:46:29,999
Mr.

1210
00:46:29,999 --> 00:46:31,170
Chair, Commissioner
members.

1211
00:46:31,170 --> 00:46:32,370
I'm Philip fell
from the League

1212
00:46:32,370 --> 00:46:33,705
of Oregon City.

1213
00:46:33,705 --> 00:46:36,569
Thank you for the
opportunity to be here. Mr.

1214
00:46:36,569 --> 00:46:37,829
Chair, maybe you
just want to go

1215
00:46:37,829 --> 00:46:40,500
ahead and give
my comments.

1216
00:46:40,500 --> 00:46:43,289
We agree with many
of the problems

1217
00:46:43,289 --> 00:46:45,775
that have been identified
and the staff.

1218
00:46:45,775 --> 00:46:48,170
We think they're
legitimate problems.

1219
00:46:48,170 --> 00:46:52,085
We are not sure
where this is going.

1220
00:46:52,085 --> 00:46:55,204
I guess none of us are.

1221
00:46:55,204 --> 00:46:57,650
And I am here
once again on

1222
00:46:57,650 --> 00:46:59,390
behalf of local
governments to

1223
00:46:59,390 --> 00:47:00,499
say that if you

1224
00:47:00,499 --> 00:47:03,665
develop new procedural
requirements,

1225
00:47:03,665 --> 00:47:08,659
please keep in mind that
Marion County is not

1226
00:47:08,659 --> 00:47:10,429
Gresham is not due

1227
00:47:10,429 --> 00:47:14,129
for it is not
way and higher.

1228
00:47:14,530 --> 00:47:17,824
In most communities.

1229
00:47:17,824 --> 00:47:20,194
If they're
developing, then

1230
00:47:20,194 --> 00:47:21,350
the planners are spending

1231
00:47:21,350 --> 00:47:23,480
their time
issuing permits.

1232
00:47:23,480 --> 00:47:25,715
If they aren't developing.

1233
00:47:25,715 --> 00:47:28,205
Most of them are
already gone.

1234
00:47:28,205 --> 00:47:30,319
And to try to get them to

1235
00:47:30,319 --> 00:47:32,450
add new procedural
requirements

1236
00:47:32,450 --> 00:47:34,040
here is gonna be very

1237
00:47:34,040 --> 00:47:36,544
difficult for people
to comply with.

1238
00:47:36,544 --> 00:47:38,629
I think there are a
variety of options.

1239
00:47:38,629 --> 00:47:39,889
I think Ms. Smith is laid

1240
00:47:39,889 --> 00:47:41,509
a couple out that
we would like to

1241
00:47:41,509 --> 00:47:43,159
see some type of

1242
00:47:43,159 --> 00:47:46,459
trigger for growth
rate or size.

1243
00:47:46,459 --> 00:47:48,439
I think it's difficult to

1244
00:47:48,439 --> 00:47:50,030
decide how to recognize

1245
00:47:50,030 --> 00:47:52,700
community capacity
to comply

1246
00:47:52,700 --> 00:47:55,145
while still
achieving your goal.

1247
00:47:55,145 --> 00:47:56,539
But I would certainly

1248
00:47:56,539 --> 00:47:58,099
urge you to spend
a fair amount of

1249
00:47:58,099 --> 00:48:01,850
time looking
at that issue.

1250
00:48:01,850 --> 00:48:03,890
I will also express

1251
00:48:03,890 --> 00:48:06,169
some disappointment
that we were not

1252
00:48:06,169 --> 00:48:10,175
involved in this
process to this point.

1253
00:48:10,175 --> 00:48:11,764
And I hope that
you will use

1254
00:48:11,764 --> 00:48:12,950
either low Act or

1255
00:48:12,950 --> 00:48:16,429
some other vehicle
to encourage

1256
00:48:16,429 --> 00:48:17,629
cities and counties to

1257
00:48:17,629 --> 00:48:19,219
participate so we can lay

1258
00:48:19,219 --> 00:48:21,080
out our specific
difficulties

1259
00:48:21,080 --> 00:48:23,405
and work with
department staff.

1260
00:48:23,405 --> 00:48:27,694
You elaborate on
one thing as I

1261
00:48:27,694 --> 00:48:29,420
listened to manage
report and read

1262
00:48:29,420 --> 00:48:31,895
the report, that organ

1263
00:48:31,895 --> 00:48:35,480
Prepared, at least amongst

1264
00:48:35,480 --> 00:48:36,680
the high priority
issues and

1265
00:48:36,680 --> 00:48:39,155
even the ones of
secondary already.

1266
00:48:39,155 --> 00:48:42,305
What I got in there
was a large dose

1267
00:48:42,305 --> 00:48:46,024
of commentary
that the way we

1268
00:48:46,024 --> 00:48:47,749
are administering goal 14

1269
00:48:47,749 --> 00:48:49,939
now is actually creating
a greater burden for

1270
00:48:49,939 --> 00:48:51,739
cities than if we were to

1271
00:48:51,739 --> 00:48:54,065
clarify what we mean,

1272
00:48:54,065 --> 00:48:55,864
certain definitions
and so forth.

1273
00:48:55,864 --> 00:48:57,740
In other words, that
the way it is now is

1274
00:48:57,740 --> 00:48:58,789
about greater burden for

1275
00:48:58,789 --> 00:49:00,679
cities than it should be.

1276
00:49:00,679 --> 00:49:03,530
And that the thrust
of all this is to

1277
00:49:03,530 --> 00:49:04,849
make it easier rather than

1278
00:49:04,849 --> 00:49:06,619
create a new
layer of burden.

1279
00:49:06,619 --> 00:49:08,434
You seem to have
interpreted it though.

1280
00:49:08,434 --> 00:49:10,249
This is going to create

1281
00:49:10,249 --> 00:49:13,040
more work in
difficulty for

1282
00:49:13,040 --> 00:49:15,880
cities rather than less.

1283
00:49:15,880 --> 00:49:16,539
And maybe it's because

1284
00:49:16,539 --> 00:49:17,560
of long experience with

1285
00:49:17,560 --> 00:49:19,270
us and you don't trust us,

1286
00:49:19,270 --> 00:49:21,055
but I'm just
wondering not at all.

1287
00:49:21,055 --> 00:49:23,395
How you, if you read that,

1288
00:49:23,395 --> 00:49:25,945
led you to see this as

1289
00:49:25,945 --> 00:49:27,399
an answer to problems as

1290
00:49:27,399 --> 00:49:29,905
opposed to a creation
of more problems.

1291
00:49:29,905 --> 00:49:32,980
Mr. Chair, I sent
this document out to

1292
00:49:32,980 --> 00:49:34,570
about a dozen planning
directors from

1293
00:49:34,570 --> 00:49:37,309
different communities
around the state.

1294
00:49:37,650 --> 00:49:40,360
From some of them I heard,

1295
00:49:40,360 --> 00:49:42,130
this is a really
good idea we

1296
00:49:42,130 --> 00:49:44,035
need to work with
at the ambiguities,

1297
00:49:44,035 --> 00:49:46,210
rob them from others.

1298
00:49:46,210 --> 00:49:48,459
I heard the ambiguity,

1299
00:49:48,459 --> 00:49:50,529
isn't it a problem
that helps us deal

1300
00:49:50,529 --> 00:49:53,845
with unique local
circumstances?

1301
00:49:53,845 --> 00:49:57,579
From one person I just
heard no, no, no.

1302
00:49:57,579 --> 00:50:01,070
Which was not
helpful commentary.

1303
00:50:01,710 --> 00:50:03,789
I think it comes down to

1304
00:50:03,789 --> 00:50:06,700
the W now and that
the devil you don't.

1305
00:50:06,700 --> 00:50:07,989
And sometimes as we

1306
00:50:07,989 --> 00:50:09,429
try to achieve perfection,

1307
00:50:09,429 --> 00:50:10,690
we get so complex

1308
00:50:10,690 --> 00:50:14,740
that back until
they understand.

1309
00:50:14,740 --> 00:50:15,610
Because once we weight

1310
00:50:15,610 --> 00:50:16,419
into one of these things,

1311
00:50:16,419 --> 00:50:19,599
so sometimes we can

1312
00:50:19,599 --> 00:50:20,665
make it worse.
I understand.

1313
00:50:20,665 --> 00:50:24,130
Okay. When responding to

1314
00:50:24,130 --> 00:50:25,329
fill is concerned
about not

1315
00:50:25,329 --> 00:50:26,920
being involved
at this point,

1316
00:50:26,920 --> 00:50:30,835
this was intended to
be an in-house look,

1317
00:50:30,835 --> 00:50:33,790
and it's up to you to

1318
00:50:33,790 --> 00:50:35,049
decide whether you want to

1319
00:50:35,049 --> 00:50:36,760
pursue some of
these things.

1320
00:50:36,760 --> 00:50:38,814
And if you do, and

1321
00:50:38,814 --> 00:50:41,614
we recommend that you
tell us to do that,

1322
00:50:41,614 --> 00:50:43,729
that will commence a very

1323
00:50:43,729 --> 00:50:45,770
open in public process.

1324
00:50:45,770 --> 00:50:47,794
And we fully
recognize that

1325
00:50:47,794 --> 00:50:48,559
in order to get

1326
00:50:48,559 --> 00:50:50,345
anywhere with
these questions,

1327
00:50:50,345 --> 00:50:52,624
the cities and
counties and

1328
00:50:52,624 --> 00:50:54,199
other local governments
are going to

1329
00:50:54,199 --> 00:50:55,935
have to be part of it.

1330
00:50:55,935 --> 00:50:57,439
It doesn't work
without them.

1331
00:50:57,439 --> 00:50:59,509
So Phil's point
is a good one.

1332
00:50:59,509 --> 00:51:01,369
We got to make
sure it's open

1333
00:51:01,369 --> 00:51:04,054
and participatory effort
from here on out.

1334
00:51:04,054 --> 00:51:06,059
If we go ahead with it.

1335
00:51:06,160 --> 00:51:09,300
Other questions or fill.

1336
00:51:10,270 --> 00:51:14,539
Thanks. There is
one other person

1337
00:51:14,539 --> 00:51:17,220
I wanted to talk male,
mercantile McCurdy.

1338
00:51:22,710 --> 00:51:24,369
Good morning, Chairman,

1339
00:51:24,369 --> 00:51:25,179
members of the Commission.

1340
00:51:25,179 --> 00:51:26,469
My name is Mary
Kyle McCurdy

1341
00:51:26,469 --> 00:51:28,074
with 1,000 friends
of Oregon.

1342
00:51:28,074 --> 00:51:29,769
And I had a few
brief comments on

1343
00:51:29,769 --> 00:51:30,939
the report and
I'm not sure

1344
00:51:30,939 --> 00:51:32,994
my voice will even
hold out for that.

1345
00:51:32,994 --> 00:51:35,169
We found it an excellent
report and we really

1346
00:51:35,169 --> 00:51:36,310
compliment your staff and

1347
00:51:36,310 --> 00:51:37,480
the consultant
that you hired.

1348
00:51:37,480 --> 00:51:37,960
We think they did

1349
00:51:37,960 --> 00:51:39,250
an excellent
job of pointing

1350
00:51:39,250 --> 00:51:42,759
out some of the gaps
and issues in goal 14.

1351
00:51:42,759 --> 00:51:45,415
And they've laid out
a big menu of tasks.

1352
00:51:45,415 --> 00:51:46,899
And our organization would

1353
00:51:46,899 --> 00:51:47,469
certainly like to be

1354
00:51:47,469 --> 00:51:49,884
part of whatever process
goes on from here.

1355
00:51:49,884 --> 00:51:52,149
You may want to
divide up the task.

1356
00:51:52,149 --> 00:51:53,470
That's a really large menu

1357
00:51:53,470 --> 00:51:55,209
that's in front of, you.

1358
00:51:55,209 --> 00:51:57,399
Know, how to make
brief comments on

1359
00:51:57,399 --> 00:51:58,959
a couple of the
points that were

1360
00:51:58,959 --> 00:52:01,495
raised and not to

1361
00:52:01,495 --> 00:52:02,380
give an impression that we

1362
00:52:02,380 --> 00:52:03,370
don't care about
all the points,

1363
00:52:03,370 --> 00:52:05,234
but I just wanted to
touch on a few of them.

1364
00:52:05,234 --> 00:52:08,390
We definitely support
the need for a county

1365
00:52:08,390 --> 00:52:09,620
or regional coordination

1366
00:52:09,620 --> 00:52:11,345
of population projections,

1367
00:52:11,345 --> 00:52:12,890
which we believe if they

1368
00:52:12,890 --> 00:52:14,690
differ from the
state's projections,

1369
00:52:14,690 --> 00:52:16,444
should be actually
approved by

1370
00:52:16,444 --> 00:52:19,520
your department and
should take into account,

1371
00:52:19,520 --> 00:52:21,019
we hope a policy
of protection of

1372
00:52:21,019 --> 00:52:23,509
farmland and forest land.

1373
00:52:23,509 --> 00:52:25,130
We need to ensure that

1374
00:52:25,130 --> 00:52:27,050
the existing urban
land is being used

1375
00:52:27,050 --> 00:52:28,070
efficiently before

1376
00:52:28,070 --> 00:52:31,160
any urban growth boundary
expansions occur.

1377
00:52:31,160 --> 00:52:33,994
And as the report
accurately points out,

1378
00:52:33,994 --> 00:52:35,690
we've spent a lot of time

1379
00:52:35,690 --> 00:52:38,435
delineating where
a UGC is located,

1380
00:52:38,435 --> 00:52:39,920
but we haven't
spent much time

1381
00:52:39,920 --> 00:52:42,950
on how development
occurs inside a UCB.

1382
00:52:42,950 --> 00:52:44,839
And this implicates
not just factor

1383
00:52:44,839 --> 00:52:47,375
four of goal 14 and the
conversion factors.

1384
00:52:47,375 --> 00:52:51,349
House Bill 2709 has a
list of tools in it by

1385
00:52:51,349 --> 00:52:52,819
which local government can

1386
00:52:52,819 --> 00:52:55,160
monster Pelley
indicate or shell.

1387
00:52:55,160 --> 00:52:56,690
There's language I
don't have in front of

1388
00:52:56,690 --> 00:52:58,789
me that it is using

1389
00:52:58,789 --> 00:53:00,860
land efficiently and
doesn't need to expand

1390
00:53:00,860 --> 00:53:02,269
an urban growth
boundary tools

1391
00:53:02,269 --> 00:53:03,619
like infile redevelopment,

1392
00:53:03,619 --> 00:53:05,240
higher densities,
minimum densities,

1393
00:53:05,240 --> 00:53:06,650
density bonuses.

1394
00:53:06,650 --> 00:53:08,179
That's an option at

1395
00:53:08,179 --> 00:53:10,520
the moment that a
city can take if they

1396
00:53:10,520 --> 00:53:11,600
don't want to expand

1397
00:53:11,600 --> 00:53:12,769
their urban growth
boundary by

1398
00:53:12,769 --> 00:53:14,765
as much as they might
otherwise need to.

1399
00:53:14,765 --> 00:53:16,789
We think that
list of tools

1400
00:53:16,789 --> 00:53:18,664
should be mandatory
on every city.

1401
00:53:18,664 --> 00:53:19,940
That they should
demonstrate that

1402
00:53:19,940 --> 00:53:21,665
they have looked
at those tools

1403
00:53:21,665 --> 00:53:23,930
and have
adequately adopted

1404
00:53:23,930 --> 00:53:25,129
those to show
that they are

1405
00:53:25,129 --> 00:53:26,029
efficiently using

1406
00:53:26,029 --> 00:53:27,545
the existing
urban land supply

1407
00:53:27,545 --> 00:53:30,079
before expanding a UDP.

1408
00:53:30,079 --> 00:53:32,810
There is a need for
direction of the level of

1409
00:53:32,810 --> 00:53:34,339
public facilities
analysis needed

1410
00:53:34,339 --> 00:53:36,155
for UDP expansion,
including,

1411
00:53:36,155 --> 00:53:37,880
we would hope financing
projections and

1412
00:53:37,880 --> 00:53:38,600
requirements for

1413
00:53:38,600 --> 00:53:40,354
concurrency of
public services,

1414
00:53:40,354 --> 00:53:43,079
public service delivery
with development.

1415
00:53:46,210 --> 00:53:49,549
One of the recommendations
report made was

1416
00:53:49,549 --> 00:53:52,009
that this
commission should

1417
00:53:52,009 --> 00:53:53,810
establish a
requirement for

1418
00:53:53,810 --> 00:53:54,589
the number of years

1419
00:53:54,589 --> 00:53:55,730
that should be inside

1420
00:53:55,730 --> 00:53:57,455
an urban growth
boundary right now,

1421
00:53:57,455 --> 00:53:59,794
House Bill 2709 requires

1422
00:53:59,794 --> 00:54:02,089
a 20-year supply of
residential land

1423
00:54:02,089 --> 00:54:03,890
only it only refers
to residential land.

1424
00:54:03,890 --> 00:54:05,300
Inside the UVB is

1425
00:54:05,300 --> 00:54:07,040
a fast-growing
enlarge cities.

1426
00:54:07,040 --> 00:54:09,035
And it's been a policy
of this body to

1427
00:54:09,035 --> 00:54:11,344
otherwise require
a 20-year supply.

1428
00:54:11,344 --> 00:54:13,924
But rather than putting
a number in law,

1429
00:54:13,924 --> 00:54:15,304
we would hope
that you would

1430
00:54:15,304 --> 00:54:16,909
remain flexible
and give your

1431
00:54:16,909 --> 00:54:18,919
department the
ability to require

1432
00:54:18,919 --> 00:54:20,180
even less than 20 years

1433
00:54:20,180 --> 00:54:22,324
inappropriate
circumstances.

1434
00:54:22,324 --> 00:54:24,110
We would not like to

1435
00:54:24,110 --> 00:54:25,699
see something set
in stone that

1436
00:54:25,699 --> 00:54:28,129
doesn't give your
department the ability to

1437
00:54:28,129 --> 00:54:29,630
flexible and respond

1438
00:54:29,630 --> 00:54:31,579
to individual
circumstances.

1439
00:54:31,579 --> 00:54:33,290
Those are a few
brief comments

1440
00:54:33,290 --> 00:54:34,549
on some of the
points and we

1441
00:54:34,549 --> 00:54:35,914
would really like
to participate in

1442
00:54:35,914 --> 00:54:37,984
where this goes from
here. Thank you.

1443
00:54:37,984 --> 00:54:39,065
Thanks.

1444
00:54:39,065 --> 00:54:44,270
Questions are reco well,

1445
00:54:44,270 --> 00:54:46,129
I think since you're here,

1446
00:54:46,129 --> 00:54:48,740
I would like to ask how
you would respond to

1447
00:54:48,740 --> 00:54:50,390
the problems that I see

1448
00:54:50,390 --> 00:54:52,699
with the annexation
in utero,

1449
00:54:52,699 --> 00:54:54,320
the interplay between what

1450
00:54:54,320 --> 00:54:55,460
we're trying to do here

1451
00:54:55,460 --> 00:54:56,900
and what's taking place

1452
00:54:56,900 --> 00:54:58,235
on the land out there now,

1453
00:54:58,235 --> 00:54:59,720
with the possibility that

1454
00:54:59,720 --> 00:55:01,369
people can opt out of

1455
00:55:01,369 --> 00:55:05,549
allowing expansion up
to the urban growth.

1456
00:55:05,710 --> 00:55:08,419
I think the voting
and annexation issue,

1457
00:55:08,419 --> 00:55:10,500
it's a very complex issue.

1458
00:55:10,500 --> 00:55:15,085
And that for a
variety of reasons,

1459
00:55:15,085 --> 00:55:16,629
a lot of communities
have found

1460
00:55:16,629 --> 00:55:17,934
themselves in the position

1461
00:55:17,934 --> 00:55:20,079
of their citizens wanting

1462
00:55:20,079 --> 00:55:21,385
to vote on annexation.

1463
00:55:21,385 --> 00:55:23,590
And I think that
there's blame to

1464
00:55:23,590 --> 00:55:25,765
be shared for that
everywhere are.

1465
00:55:25,765 --> 00:55:27,250
My Board has adopted

1466
00:55:27,250 --> 00:55:28,674
position which
basically says,

1467
00:55:28,674 --> 00:55:32,064
we're not big fans of
voting on annexation.

1468
00:55:32,064 --> 00:55:33,849
And we think
that land inside

1469
00:55:33,849 --> 00:55:35,260
urban growth boundaries
should be available

1470
00:55:35,260 --> 00:55:36,955
for urban uses over time.

1471
00:55:36,955 --> 00:55:38,335
But what you are seeing,

1472
00:55:38,335 --> 00:55:41,560
I think that if you
fail to recognize this,

1473
00:55:41,560 --> 00:55:43,525
you will fail to address
the core problems.

1474
00:55:43,525 --> 00:55:45,280
Is it local citizens?

1475
00:55:45,280 --> 00:55:46,899
Over the course
of a lot of

1476
00:55:46,899 --> 00:55:48,835
legislative
sessions have seen

1477
00:55:48,835 --> 00:55:50,559
their ability to
participate in

1478
00:55:50,559 --> 00:55:52,710
a meaningful way at
their local government.

1479
00:55:52,710 --> 00:55:55,655
Growth issues be
whittled away

1480
00:55:55,655 --> 00:56:01,700
by procedural hurdles,
by increasing fees,

1481
00:56:01,700 --> 00:56:03,589
by threats to increase

1482
00:56:03,589 --> 00:56:05,645
fees or to assess
attorney fees,

1483
00:56:05,645 --> 00:56:08,450
a variety of reasons
and the lack of

1484
00:56:08,450 --> 00:56:09,860
any meaningful conflict of

1485
00:56:09,860 --> 00:56:11,509
interest standards
at the local level.

1486
00:56:11,509 --> 00:56:14,045
And we have horror
stories about

1487
00:56:14,045 --> 00:56:15,350
the conflicts of
interests that have

1488
00:56:15,350 --> 00:56:17,419
occurred in some
local communities.

1489
00:56:17,419 --> 00:56:19,249
And so I think
that you're seeing

1490
00:56:19,249 --> 00:56:20,839
that in many situations

1491
00:56:20,839 --> 00:56:23,029
citizens are grasping
for the one tool

1492
00:56:23,029 --> 00:56:25,684
they have remaining
to say call halt.

1493
00:56:25,684 --> 00:56:27,874
You have to pay
attention to us.

1494
00:56:27,874 --> 00:56:30,079
So without looking at

1495
00:56:30,079 --> 00:56:33,169
that full array of
citizen participation,

1496
00:56:33,169 --> 00:56:35,270
I think if we just hope

1497
00:56:35,270 --> 00:56:37,085
voting on annexation
goes away,

1498
00:56:37,085 --> 00:56:38,119
we're not dealing with

1499
00:56:38,119 --> 00:56:41,419
the core problem
and that there

1500
00:56:41,419 --> 00:56:43,849
will be a bursting

1501
00:56:43,849 --> 00:56:46,115
out of anger in
some other fashion.

1502
00:56:46,115 --> 00:56:47,915
So I think we really
have to deal with

1503
00:56:47,915 --> 00:56:50,119
what are the citizens
carrying about.

1504
00:56:50,119 --> 00:56:52,550
I think I sat through

1505
00:56:52,550 --> 00:56:53,930
all the hearings
at the legislature

1506
00:56:53,930 --> 00:56:56,105
on the Boolean and
annexation issue.

1507
00:56:56,105 --> 00:56:58,070
And I was really impressed

1508
00:56:58,070 --> 00:56:59,660
by testimony from
people in the city

1509
00:56:59,660 --> 00:57:00,770
of Corvallis who said

1510
00:57:00,770 --> 00:57:03,980
that the fact that they
vote on annexation

1511
00:57:03,980 --> 00:57:05,630
means that growth is

1512
00:57:05,630 --> 00:57:09,125
sort of a dinner table
topic in Corvallis.

1513
00:57:09,125 --> 00:57:10,280
And they know a lot

1514
00:57:10,280 --> 00:57:11,809
about what's going
on and what's

1515
00:57:11,809 --> 00:57:14,419
proposed in these
annexation request because

1516
00:57:14,419 --> 00:57:15,560
of the requirements that

1517
00:57:15,560 --> 00:57:17,299
a developer put
that all forward.

1518
00:57:17,299 --> 00:57:18,469
And in fact, most of

1519
00:57:18,469 --> 00:57:20,045
those annexation
had been approved.

1520
00:57:20,045 --> 00:57:21,170
And even in the
communities that

1521
00:57:21,170 --> 00:57:22,279
have recently
adopted this,

1522
00:57:22,279 --> 00:57:23,299
most of the annexation,

1523
00:57:23,299 --> 00:57:24,890
so I understand, has

1524
00:57:24,890 --> 00:57:27,695
been approved.
That's anecdotal.

1525
00:57:27,695 --> 00:57:30,740
So I think that we really

1526
00:57:30,740 --> 00:57:32,090
need to look at
the core things

1527
00:57:32,090 --> 00:57:33,844
motivating citizens.

1528
00:57:33,844 --> 00:57:36,050
It is not just a
straightforward issue

1529
00:57:36,050 --> 00:57:37,400
of voting on annexation,

1530
00:57:37,400 --> 00:57:39,529
a good idea or not urban
growth management.

1531
00:57:39,529 --> 00:57:40,729
We can't ignore

1532
00:57:40,729 --> 00:57:43,589
the citizen participation
aspect of it.

1533
00:57:43,630 --> 00:57:46,399
I guess I would like
to comment on that.

1534
00:57:46,399 --> 00:57:48,020
And what I see
out there is that

1535
00:57:48,020 --> 00:57:49,819
the very rules
that we're talking

1536
00:57:49,819 --> 00:57:50,959
about here are
the things that

1537
00:57:50,959 --> 00:57:52,400
are causing
people that don't

1538
00:57:52,400 --> 00:57:54,680
like road to simply
come in and vote

1539
00:57:54,680 --> 00:57:55,819
against things
that they might

1540
00:57:55,819 --> 00:57:57,424
otherwise if Florida,

1541
00:57:57,424 --> 00:57:58,790
I look at what happened

1542
00:57:58,790 --> 00:58:00,934
in Alice there
and of course,

1543
00:58:00,934 --> 00:58:02,510
commissioner bars here,

1544
00:58:02,510 --> 00:58:03,800
the defendant on this,

1545
00:58:03,800 --> 00:58:05,629
but the one that
they've turned

1546
00:58:05,629 --> 00:58:07,354
down that immediately they

1547
00:58:07,354 --> 00:58:08,659
even before the election,

1548
00:58:08,659 --> 00:58:11,299
the developer
and said, Well,

1549
00:58:11,299 --> 00:58:13,429
I'm going to put it
in five-acre lots

1550
00:58:13,429 --> 00:58:15,769
of them and develop
it that way.

1551
00:58:15,769 --> 00:58:17,269
Right on the edge of

1552
00:58:17,269 --> 00:58:18,479
Corvallis seems to me

1553
00:58:18,479 --> 00:58:19,595
that that's most
destructive,

1554
00:58:19,595 --> 00:58:21,380
that everything we're
trying to do here.

1555
00:58:21,380 --> 00:58:22,820
There isn't a
requirement that

1556
00:58:22,820 --> 00:58:25,050
the county allow
five-acre lots.

1557
00:58:25,050 --> 00:58:25,750
I mean,

1558
00:58:25,750 --> 00:58:27,760
that's a local decision,

1559
00:58:27,760 --> 00:58:29,935
Commissioner McPherson.

1560
00:58:29,935 --> 00:58:33,819
But I think we
can't look at

1561
00:58:33,819 --> 00:58:36,670
just the urban form issue

1562
00:58:36,670 --> 00:58:38,110
in the voting
on annexation.

1563
00:58:38,110 --> 00:58:40,750
And I really wanted
to emphasize

1564
00:58:40,750 --> 00:58:43,509
that because I think

1565
00:58:43,509 --> 00:58:44,710
that you then risk of

1566
00:58:44,710 --> 00:58:46,779
backlash against the
planning program if you

1567
00:58:46,779 --> 00:58:47,889
don't look at
those citizen

1568
00:58:47,889 --> 00:58:49,089
participation issues

1569
00:58:49,089 --> 00:58:53,769
to go for every,

1570
00:58:53,769 --> 00:58:55,299
for every horse
or you have on

1571
00:58:55,299 --> 00:58:57,970
citizen participation
being thwarted.

1572
00:58:57,970 --> 00:58:59,200
I can give you a
horror story and

1573
00:58:59,200 --> 00:59:00,249
more citizen participation

1574
00:59:00,249 --> 00:59:02,379
thwarted urban infill,
redevelopment,

1575
00:59:02,379 --> 00:59:03,400
increased density in any

1576
00:59:03,400 --> 00:59:04,645
number of other projects,

1577
00:59:04,645 --> 00:59:05,979
many of them fully
consistent with

1578
00:59:05,979 --> 00:59:07,800
the comprehensive
plan and my mind.

1579
00:59:07,800 --> 00:59:10,429
I see the opposite
as often,

1580
00:59:10,429 --> 00:59:11,270
if not more often

1581
00:59:11,270 --> 00:59:13,145
than what you're
suggesting.

1582
00:59:13,145 --> 00:59:15,770
How do we resolve
that problem

1583
00:59:15,770 --> 00:59:17,509
is recharged forward
with the notion

1584
00:59:17,509 --> 00:59:19,429
that you suggest that
we should require

1585
00:59:19,429 --> 00:59:21,889
local governments
minimum densities,

1586
00:59:21,889 --> 00:59:26,225
mandatory opsonins
fill higher densities.

1587
00:59:26,225 --> 00:59:27,769
In the face of a long,

1588
00:59:27,769 --> 00:59:31,535
long list of projects
that have been frankly,

1589
00:59:31,535 --> 00:59:34,099
either denied or
the developer

1590
00:59:34,099 --> 00:59:35,299
has been so frustrated

1591
00:59:35,299 --> 00:59:36,259
after two or three years

1592
00:59:36,259 --> 00:59:38,900
of battles over
private over issues in

1593
00:59:38,900 --> 00:59:40,250
many cases that had little

1594
00:59:40,250 --> 00:59:42,080
to do with the nature
of the project.

1595
00:59:42,080 --> 00:59:44,325
Then in fact, killed
exactly the direction

1596
00:59:44,325 --> 00:59:44,689
that urban

1597
00:59:44,689 --> 00:59:45,890
containment that
you're suggesting.

1598
00:59:45,890 --> 00:59:46,460
What do we do with

1599
00:59:46,460 --> 00:59:48,154
that problem in the
other direction?

1600
00:59:48,154 --> 00:59:49,820
Much to distribute
this patient.

1601
00:59:49,820 --> 00:59:51,274
We hear from a
lot of people

1602
00:59:51,274 --> 00:59:52,549
because we charge forward

1603
00:59:52,549 --> 00:59:55,220
with more intense
for Commissioner,

1604
00:59:55,220 --> 00:59:56,750
if I heard the horror
stories I was referring

1605
00:59:56,750 --> 00:59:58,459
to where the conflicts of

1606
00:59:58,459 --> 00:59:59,629
interests existing between

1607
00:59:59,629 --> 01:00:00,829
local elected and planning

1608
01:00:00,829 --> 01:00:02,120
commissioners and
the developments

1609
01:00:02,120 --> 01:00:03,635
that are appearing
before them.

1610
01:00:03,635 --> 01:00:05,390
Not a horror story in

1611
01:00:05,390 --> 01:00:06,529
the actual
development that

1612
01:00:06,529 --> 01:00:09,180
was proposed necessarily.

1613
01:00:09,340 --> 01:00:11,509
I think that is
something that will

1614
01:00:11,509 --> 01:00:12,890
always be with
us at tension,

1615
01:00:12,890 --> 01:00:14,179
that will always
be with us.

1616
01:00:14,179 --> 01:00:16,459
That citizen
participation,

1617
01:00:16,459 --> 01:00:17,360
meaningful citizen to

1618
01:00:17,360 --> 01:00:19,174
citizen participation

1619
01:00:19,174 --> 01:00:20,690
versus the potential that,

1620
01:00:20,690 --> 01:00:21,739
that may slow down or

1621
01:00:21,739 --> 01:00:23,525
thwart some
development proposals.

1622
01:00:23,525 --> 01:00:25,040
And I think we
just have to craft

1623
01:00:25,040 --> 01:00:26,674
the best way that we can.

1624
01:00:26,674 --> 01:00:28,070
But I don't
think trying to

1625
01:00:28,070 --> 01:00:30,035
snuff out voting
on annexation

1626
01:00:30,035 --> 01:00:31,969
without looking at
the bigger issues of

1627
01:00:31,969 --> 01:00:36,920
citizen participation
is the answer to that.

1628
01:00:36,920 --> 01:00:38,419
I think we have
to struggle with

1629
01:00:38,419 --> 01:00:40,429
the issues that
you raised and

1630
01:00:40,429 --> 01:00:42,649
that in the past
legislative session to

1631
01:00:42,649 --> 01:00:43,790
number of things
have been done to

1632
01:00:43,790 --> 01:00:46,174
do that House Bill 2709,

1633
01:00:46,174 --> 01:00:48,290
the limited land
use process,

1634
01:00:48,290 --> 01:00:50,329
the expedited
land use process.

1635
01:00:50,329 --> 01:00:52,249
And I agree that those

1636
01:00:52,249 --> 01:00:54,514
are issues that have
to be struggled with.

1637
01:00:54,514 --> 01:00:55,940
But there has to be

1638
01:00:55,940 --> 01:00:59,389
some meaningful
upfront planning

1639
01:00:59,389 --> 01:01:00,754
and periodic review.

1640
01:01:00,754 --> 01:01:01,940
There has to be meaningful

1641
01:01:01,940 --> 01:01:03,125
upfront planning
and proposed

1642
01:01:03,125 --> 01:01:04,835
urban growth
boundary expansions

1643
01:01:04,835 --> 01:01:06,769
where the citizens
and annexation,

1644
01:01:06,769 --> 01:01:08,539
I think where the
citizens are involved

1645
01:01:08,539 --> 01:01:11,210
in what's going to be
going on in that land.

1646
01:01:11,210 --> 01:01:13,309
And then I think

1647
01:01:13,309 --> 01:01:15,229
of development is
consistent with that.

1648
01:01:15,229 --> 01:01:17,360
Then we can look
at additional ways

1649
01:01:17,360 --> 01:01:19,190
to expedite that
development.

1650
01:01:19,190 --> 01:01:22,384
But so is it really
your perception that

1651
01:01:22,384 --> 01:01:24,229
the spread of
this disease is

1652
01:01:24,229 --> 01:01:26,660
Bill closet voting
on annexation.

1653
01:01:26,660 --> 01:01:30,230
It has more to do
with the erosion of

1654
01:01:30,230 --> 01:01:32,509
citizen participation
than it does have to

1655
01:01:32,509 --> 01:01:35,735
do with a backlash
against growth.

1656
01:01:35,735 --> 01:01:38,075
Change in these community.

1657
01:01:38,075 --> 01:01:39,769
They're related.
But I think

1658
01:01:39,769 --> 01:01:41,540
a lot of it, a citizen
participation,

1659
01:01:41,540 --> 01:01:42,590
I think a lot
of it is also

1660
01:01:42,590 --> 01:01:46,819
the perception that
I think it's real in

1661
01:01:46,819 --> 01:01:49,580
many places that
new development

1662
01:01:49,580 --> 01:01:50,780
is not adequately paying

1663
01:01:50,780 --> 01:01:53,195
its fair share of
public services.

1664
01:01:53,195 --> 01:01:55,250
And that the
community has bearing

1665
01:01:55,250 --> 01:01:57,259
on unfair burden on that.

1666
01:01:57,259 --> 01:01:59,720
And the governor,
I believe,

1667
01:01:59,720 --> 01:02:01,460
is going to be
looking into that.

1668
01:02:01,460 --> 01:02:03,995
I'm not certain quiet
what state that's in,

1669
01:02:03,995 --> 01:02:06,530
but that issue
of not having

1670
01:02:06,530 --> 01:02:09,889
inadequate voice in a say

1671
01:02:09,889 --> 01:02:12,394
in what goes on in
their communities.

1672
01:02:12,394 --> 01:02:15,020
The perception that
new development

1673
01:02:15,020 --> 01:02:16,325
is not paying its way.

1674
01:02:16,325 --> 01:02:19,205
And growth and
change are hard.

1675
01:02:19,205 --> 01:02:20,209
And there's been a lot of

1676
01:02:20,209 --> 01:02:21,470
growth and a lot of
these communities,

1677
01:02:21,470 --> 01:02:23,089
and that's certainly
part of it.

1678
01:02:23,089 --> 01:02:24,590
But again, I
don't think we

1679
01:02:24,590 --> 01:02:25,970
can just look at one part

1680
01:02:25,970 --> 01:02:29,489
of it without looking
at the big picture.

1681
01:02:33,210 --> 01:02:36,669
I'm pleased to hear

1682
01:02:36,669 --> 01:02:38,590
the testimony that
you've just given

1683
01:02:38,590 --> 01:02:42,145
because of the
complexity that

1684
01:02:42,145 --> 01:02:46,525
IC and your last
point on cost is

1685
01:02:46,525 --> 01:02:50,559
frequently
overlooked because I

1686
01:02:50,559 --> 01:02:53,860
believe the way in
which Corvallis is

1687
01:02:53,860 --> 01:02:56,170
proceeded to do a number

1688
01:02:56,170 --> 01:02:58,749
of things which I
regard as part of

1689
01:02:58,749 --> 01:03:02,274
a package which
are not done in

1690
01:03:02,274 --> 01:03:04,509
other communities as they

1691
01:03:04,509 --> 01:03:08,050
deal with their
growth issue present.

1692
01:03:08,050 --> 01:03:10,969
Just passing a
charter amendment

1693
01:03:11,700 --> 01:03:14,705
is an important factor.

1694
01:03:14,705 --> 01:03:18,020
But frankly, as long as

1695
01:03:18,020 --> 01:03:22,024
people who sit in
regulatory positions,

1696
01:03:22,024 --> 01:03:25,400
as we said, refer to

1697
01:03:25,400 --> 01:03:29,839
citizen voting
as a disease.

1698
01:03:29,839 --> 01:03:34,459
We've got real problems
because in fact,

1699
01:03:34,459 --> 01:03:39,365
there is a political
problem associated with

1700
01:03:39,365 --> 01:03:41,390
what's going on in

1701
01:03:41,390 --> 01:03:45,860
this state and in
individual communities.

1702
01:03:45,860 --> 01:03:49,700
I frankly think.

1703
01:03:49,700 --> 01:03:54,110
What worries me about
this discussion,

1704
01:03:54,110 --> 01:03:58,250
go 14 is the
excessive focus

1705
01:03:58,250 --> 01:04:02,720
on UG be
adjustments and not

1706
01:04:02,720 --> 01:04:06,500
sufficient focus is we've

1707
01:04:06,500 --> 01:04:09,289
talked about it to
this point where you

1708
01:04:09,289 --> 01:04:10,700
understand that
it's perfectly

1709
01:04:10,700 --> 01:04:12,889
possible to move
in a direction

1710
01:04:12,889 --> 01:04:17,420
which looks at
the urbanization

1711
01:04:17,420 --> 01:04:21,780
of land already
within urban growth.

1712
01:04:22,660 --> 01:04:29,314
But I think that if
we don't find ways to

1713
01:04:29,314 --> 01:04:33,470
address cost as well

1714
01:04:33,470 --> 01:04:38,014
as formed in a fashion
which doesn't.

1715
01:04:38,014 --> 01:04:41,104
Right? Communities is

1716
01:04:41,104 --> 01:04:44,375
involving state guidance,

1717
01:04:44,375 --> 01:04:50,119
meaning mandates to do
particular things will

1718
01:04:50,119 --> 01:04:51,949
find that it will be

1719
01:04:51,949 --> 01:04:54,605
the growth pressures today

1720
01:04:54,605 --> 01:04:57,500
will sabotage the
whole program.

1721
01:04:57,500 --> 01:05:01,924
Maybe not next session,
but three sessions.

1722
01:05:01,924 --> 01:05:06,695
Now, I don't
have a solution.

1723
01:05:06,695 --> 01:05:09,785
I have to defend

1724
01:05:09,785 --> 01:05:14,150
citizen participation
even through the vote.

1725
01:05:14,150 --> 01:05:18,529
But I know that the
votes in Corvallis,

1726
01:05:18,529 --> 01:05:22,055
except those most recently

1727
01:05:22,055 --> 01:05:26,670
on some very
well-designed annexation,

1728
01:05:26,710 --> 01:05:29,870
have not interfered with

1729
01:05:29,870 --> 01:05:32,015
the ability of the city to

1730
01:05:32,015 --> 01:05:34,790
acquire land

1731
01:05:34,790 --> 01:05:36,080
through the annexation

1732
01:05:36,080 --> 01:05:38,164
process and
support growth.

1733
01:05:38,164 --> 01:05:40,550
But I must also say

1734
01:05:40,550 --> 01:05:43,204
that I met with some
people yesterday

1735
01:05:43,204 --> 01:05:45,905
and I told them
that Corvallis is

1736
01:05:45,905 --> 01:05:50,254
economy has not changed
in the last 30 years.

1737
01:05:50,254 --> 01:05:54,630
In terms of job
housing imbalance.

1738
01:05:54,910 --> 01:05:57,124
University

1739
01:05:57,124 --> 01:05:59,554
dominated the academy
in the sixties.

1740
01:05:59,554 --> 01:06:01,189
And if we had zip codes,

1741
01:06:01,189 --> 01:06:03,169
then I am confident

1742
01:06:03,169 --> 01:06:06,725
30% to 40% of

1743
01:06:06,725 --> 01:06:09,724
the employees
lived outside

1744
01:06:09,724 --> 01:06:11,869
of Corvallis zip codes.

1745
01:06:11,869 --> 01:06:13,939
I know from studies

1746
01:06:13,939 --> 01:06:17,000
that had been
done since 1985,

1747
01:06:17,000 --> 01:06:22,609
35% approximately of
the OSU employees

1748
01:06:22,609 --> 01:06:26,434
in Corvallis live
outside those zip codes.

1749
01:06:26,434 --> 01:06:32,540
I know from studies done
of HP employees that

1750
01:06:32,540 --> 01:06:36,859
40% to 45% of

1751
01:06:36,859 --> 01:06:40,070
them live outside
Corvallis zip codes.

1752
01:06:40,070 --> 01:06:44,165
And that's a
major problem.

1753
01:06:44,165 --> 01:06:47,869
And I'm not trying to
cover anything up.

1754
01:06:47,869 --> 01:06:50,539
And in one sense,

1755
01:06:50,539 --> 01:06:52,999
you can say, one sense,

1756
01:06:52,999 --> 01:06:55,550
you can say that
it is voting on

1757
01:06:55,550 --> 01:06:58,864
annexation created
this imbalance.

1758
01:06:58,864 --> 01:07:01,790
But my point is,
you go back prior

1759
01:07:01,790 --> 01:07:04,849
to each B's arrival,

1760
01:07:04,849 --> 01:07:07,880
you will discover that
there was that jobs,

1761
01:07:07,880 --> 01:07:11,029
housing imbalance
because of

1762
01:07:11,029 --> 01:07:13,219
people's preferences
for where

1763
01:07:13,219 --> 01:07:14,705
they want to live,

1764
01:07:14,705 --> 01:07:16,370
where they can
get a good deal

1765
01:07:16,370 --> 01:07:19,079
on housing, etc.

1766
01:07:19,080 --> 01:07:22,480
We've got an
elaborate process

1767
01:07:22,480 --> 01:07:25,149
of updating our
comp plan underway.

1768
01:07:25,149 --> 01:07:27,700
At present. I would say

1769
01:07:27,700 --> 01:07:29,140
the community has

1770
01:07:29,140 --> 01:07:31,885
a level of citizen
involvement,

1771
01:07:31,885 --> 01:07:35,110
which you can I mean,

1772
01:07:35,110 --> 01:07:39,670
you properly alluded
fact that annexation,

1773
01:07:39,670 --> 01:07:41,919
as I discussed at
the dinner table,

1774
01:07:41,919 --> 01:07:44,140
I assure you that

1775
01:07:44,140 --> 01:07:45,550
there are hundreds
of people

1776
01:07:45,550 --> 01:07:48,010
involved looking
at the future

1777
01:07:48,010 --> 01:07:49,795
of the community
right now.

1778
01:07:49,795 --> 01:07:52,195
Which means that not

1779
01:07:52,195 --> 01:07:54,190
every annexation
proposed is

1780
01:07:54,190 --> 01:07:56,064
going to be approved
in the future.

1781
01:07:56,064 --> 01:07:57,939
On the other hand, I see

1782
01:07:57,939 --> 01:07:59,590
approval of a number

1783
01:07:59,590 --> 01:08:01,580
of things coming
out of them.

1784
01:08:01,580 --> 01:08:06,560
The final point, my
first involvement

1785
01:08:06,560 --> 01:08:12,540
is mirror in this building
was to defend SDC.

1786
01:08:13,750 --> 01:08:19,655
And I find what I read
in the newspaper.

1787
01:08:19,655 --> 01:08:21,814
I do not have the context.

1788
01:08:21,814 --> 01:08:26,419
I, once I find
the communities

1789
01:08:26,419 --> 01:08:31,789
that are most concerned
about communities,

1790
01:08:31,789 --> 01:08:34,009
I'm not talking about
political communities.

1791
01:08:34,009 --> 01:08:35,164
Cities.

1792
01:08:35,164 --> 01:08:38,510
Communities most
concerned are

1793
01:08:38,510 --> 01:08:39,829
ones which are not

1794
01:08:39,829 --> 01:08:41,900
willing to step forward

1795
01:08:41,900 --> 01:08:45,589
and really work
with the cost.

1796
01:08:45,589 --> 01:08:50,090
Efficiency in limb
development issues

1797
01:08:50,090 --> 01:08:52,759
in the communities
that are

1798
01:08:52,759 --> 01:08:56,219
voting to vote
on annexation.

1799
01:08:56,740 --> 01:08:58,864
That's my impression.

1800
01:08:58,864 --> 01:09:00,395
Maybe I'm wrong.

1801
01:09:00,395 --> 01:09:02,929
But as long as we don't

1802
01:09:02,929 --> 01:09:05,509
have any
partnerships between

1803
01:09:05,509 --> 01:09:07,130
the people who
benefit from

1804
01:09:07,130 --> 01:09:09,980
development and
the communities

1805
01:09:09,980 --> 01:09:12,200
in which it takes place.

1806
01:09:12,200 --> 01:09:15,874
We don't get approval.

1807
01:09:15,874 --> 01:09:18,559
I find it very

1808
01:09:18,559 --> 01:09:20,390
horrifying that a couple

1809
01:09:20,390 --> 01:09:21,710
of recent annexation is

1810
01:09:21,710 --> 01:09:24,139
in Corvallis
where the people

1811
01:09:24,139 --> 01:09:27,620
proposing the development
worked hard to

1812
01:09:27,620 --> 01:09:30,199
try in fashion
development that would be

1813
01:09:30,199 --> 01:09:32,239
good and hence lead to

1814
01:09:32,239 --> 01:09:35,045
the annexation
that they lost.

1815
01:09:35,045 --> 01:09:37,849
I felt city government

1816
01:09:37,849 --> 01:09:41,119
lost politically
when that occurred.

1817
01:09:41,119 --> 01:09:43,430
And it occurred
for a variety of

1818
01:09:43,430 --> 01:09:45,605
reasons and they're
unimportant.

1819
01:09:45,605 --> 01:09:49,640
But what I would
say is that, yes,

1820
01:09:49,640 --> 01:09:51,319
there will be
issues related

1821
01:09:51,319 --> 01:09:54,485
to traffic at an
intersection,

1822
01:09:54,485 --> 01:09:59,645
burdens of the city's
infrastructure,

1823
01:09:59,645 --> 01:10:03,530
as well as just
no change in

1824
01:10:03,530 --> 01:10:05,375
this community
that will lead

1825
01:10:05,375 --> 01:10:08,849
people to vote
against annexation.

1826
01:10:09,910 --> 01:10:16,744
What in fact, those
issues can be addressed?

1827
01:10:16,744 --> 01:10:18,529
They can be addressed by

1828
01:10:18,529 --> 01:10:22,079
a state legislature
that is supportive.

1829
01:10:22,540 --> 01:10:26,224
Associated with row.

1830
01:10:26,224 --> 01:10:29,405
They had the
state benefits

1831
01:10:29,405 --> 01:10:30,800
from in terms of getting

1832
01:10:30,800 --> 01:10:33,809
revenue which is not
shared with the locals.

1833
01:10:34,540 --> 01:10:38,014
He is also the case

1834
01:10:38,014 --> 01:10:41,779
that the locals
to be pushed by

1835
01:10:41,779 --> 01:10:44,550
the state to involve

1836
01:10:45,280 --> 01:10:49,744
people in a better
way than they do now.

1837
01:10:49,744 --> 01:10:52,910
Um, well, I was looking
for at this point,

1838
01:10:52,910 --> 01:10:56,220
was there anybody having
questions of America

1839
01:10:56,380 --> 01:10:58,039
rather than getting into

1840
01:10:58,039 --> 01:10:59,480
our discussion
because that's a

1841
01:10:59,480 --> 01:11:02,180
totally appropriate
for our discussion.

1842
01:11:02,180 --> 01:11:03,530
I want to want to leave
her sitting here.

1843
01:11:03,530 --> 01:11:04,970
I just wanted to
compliment her.

1844
01:11:04,970 --> 01:11:06,229
I was very her position

1845
01:11:06,229 --> 01:11:07,609
because it was very, uh,

1846
01:11:07,609 --> 01:11:08,765
to what you're seeing

1847
01:11:08,765 --> 01:11:12,860
explicated in your
organizations literature.

1848
01:11:12,860 --> 01:11:16,970
Any other questions?
I'd offer

1849
01:11:16,970 --> 01:11:20,165
a comment and
Ralph situation,

1850
01:11:20,165 --> 01:11:22,205
but it goes to
community college.

1851
01:11:22,205 --> 01:11:25,579
It has to do with this
notion of voting on

1852
01:11:25,579 --> 01:11:27,920
annexation and
somehow the result

1853
01:11:27,920 --> 01:11:29,359
of lack of citizen
participation.

1854
01:11:29,359 --> 01:11:30,650
One of the ironies
I've always found in

1855
01:11:30,650 --> 01:11:32,539
that argument is
that voting on

1856
01:11:32,539 --> 01:11:34,129
annexation is
actually antithetical

1857
01:11:34,129 --> 01:11:35,840
to citizen participation
in planning.

1858
01:11:35,840 --> 01:11:37,970
And the notion
that the city of

1859
01:11:37,970 --> 01:11:39,649
Corvallis is going forward

1860
01:11:39,649 --> 01:11:41,254
today with a revisit.

1861
01:11:41,254 --> 01:11:41,749
I don't know whether it's

1862
01:11:41,749 --> 01:11:42,710
a periodic review or

1863
01:11:42,710 --> 01:11:44,750
somehow on their
planning process.

1864
01:11:44,750 --> 01:11:46,700
Why would I as a citizen,

1865
01:11:46,700 --> 01:11:48,439
as I have in the past

1866
01:11:48,439 --> 01:11:49,939
and anybody else
would in the past

1867
01:11:49,939 --> 01:11:52,429
participate in
that process at

1868
01:11:52,429 --> 01:11:54,080
the legislative level to

1869
01:11:54,080 --> 01:11:56,254
direct the growth
of that community,

1870
01:11:56,254 --> 01:11:57,949
would be IT
infrastructure mapping

1871
01:11:57,949 --> 01:11:59,450
or anything in-between,

1872
01:11:59,450 --> 01:12:01,310
participate in
the adoption of

1873
01:12:01,310 --> 01:12:03,649
Map designation
and any number

1874
01:12:03,649 --> 01:12:05,329
of other plan elements,

1875
01:12:05,329 --> 01:12:08,030
only to find and
recognize that the end of

1876
01:12:08,030 --> 01:12:09,050
the day when though

1877
01:12:09,050 --> 01:12:10,985
that plan is due
to be implemented,

1878
01:12:10,985 --> 01:12:13,175
it can all be wiped out,

1879
01:12:13,175 --> 01:12:16,410
tossed aside by the
pure of a vote,

1880
01:12:16,410 --> 01:12:18,785
the populist based
on God knows what.

1881
01:12:18,785 --> 01:12:20,570
The point being with

1882
01:12:20,570 --> 01:12:22,850
the intrusion of
voting on annexation,

1883
01:12:22,850 --> 01:12:24,979
we've now lost the
ability to have

1884
01:12:24,979 --> 01:12:26,509
certainty in the
implementation

1885
01:12:26,509 --> 01:12:27,859
of that planning process,

1886
01:12:27,859 --> 01:12:29,075
which was where

1887
01:12:29,075 --> 01:12:30,110
all the citizens

1888
01:12:30,110 --> 01:12:32,090
Historically have
participated.

1889
01:12:32,090 --> 01:12:33,950
They have the
stakeholders meetings,

1890
01:12:33,950 --> 01:12:35,540
they have the roundtables,

1891
01:12:35,540 --> 01:12:36,859
they have the legislative

1892
01:12:36,859 --> 01:12:37,999
hearings on plan map,

1893
01:12:37,999 --> 01:12:39,770
adoption, adoption
of ordinances

1894
01:12:39,770 --> 01:12:41,105
to implement that plan.

1895
01:12:41,105 --> 01:12:42,619
Now, we have

1896
01:12:42,619 --> 01:12:44,060
a situation where
all that again,

1897
01:12:44,060 --> 01:12:45,140
can be wiped out in one

1898
01:12:45,140 --> 01:12:46,220
fell swoop because that

1899
01:12:46,220 --> 01:12:47,570
property cannot
be brought in

1900
01:12:47,570 --> 01:12:49,385
because of the biotic
and have a vote.

1901
01:12:49,385 --> 01:12:51,050
And so I've
actually believe

1902
01:12:51,050 --> 01:12:52,594
in that situation,
points it out.

1903
01:12:52,594 --> 01:12:53,300
I'm not going to go

1904
01:12:53,300 --> 01:12:54,410
to your legislative
hearing.

1905
01:12:54,410 --> 01:12:55,730
If I'm a resident
of Corvallis,

1906
01:12:55,730 --> 01:12:56,779
I'm not going
to participate

1907
01:12:56,779 --> 01:12:57,865
in the formation
of the plan,

1908
01:12:57,865 --> 01:12:58,400
the adoption of

1909
01:12:58,400 --> 01:12:59,644
the implementation
ordinances,

1910
01:12:59,644 --> 01:13:00,739
because there's no longer

1911
01:13:00,739 --> 01:13:01,610
any assurance there'll be

1912
01:13:01,610 --> 01:13:02,780
implemented in
the urbanized

1913
01:13:02,780 --> 01:13:04,520
area outside the limits.

1914
01:13:04,520 --> 01:13:05,929
It's off the table

1915
01:13:05,929 --> 01:13:06,859
and you'll never
know until

1916
01:13:06,859 --> 01:13:08,840
you hold the infamous
vote and vote,

1917
01:13:08,840 --> 01:13:10,549
I continue to
believe is based on

1918
01:13:10,549 --> 01:13:13,729
very little Planning
Input and frankly,

1919
01:13:13,729 --> 01:13:15,050
any number of
other factors

1920
01:13:15,050 --> 01:13:15,905
that have very little

1921
01:13:15,905 --> 01:13:17,179
to do with the
planning process

1922
01:13:17,179 --> 01:13:18,410
so that your Corvallis,

1923
01:13:18,410 --> 01:13:20,269
It brings to mind, you

1924
01:13:20,269 --> 01:13:21,769
may be in the middle
of the process began.

1925
01:13:21,769 --> 01:13:22,545
I think you're
going to find

1926
01:13:22,545 --> 01:13:23,510
voting on annexation in

1927
01:13:23,510 --> 01:13:24,979
this day and age neighbor

1928
01:13:24,979 --> 01:13:26,824
will chill out of
that participation.

1929
01:13:26,824 --> 01:13:27,920
You want to
comment on that?

1930
01:13:27,920 --> 01:13:29,119
And then we'll
Commissioner,

1931
01:13:29,119 --> 01:13:30,200
if I for I actually
don't think that

1932
01:13:30,200 --> 01:13:31,744
that's what's occurring

1933
01:13:31,744 --> 01:13:33,949
in various
communities that

1934
01:13:33,949 --> 01:13:35,630
have adopted voting
on annexation.

1935
01:13:35,630 --> 01:13:37,489
And I'll just
the first vote

1936
01:13:37,489 --> 01:13:38,839
on annexation
in Corvallis,

1937
01:13:38,839 --> 01:13:40,849
which which took place
after they adopted

1938
01:13:40,849 --> 01:13:41,929
the requirement that

1939
01:13:41,929 --> 01:13:43,280
you've bought
an annexation?

1940
01:13:43,280 --> 01:13:44,944
As has been told to me and

1941
01:13:44,944 --> 01:13:46,520
maybe commissioner
virus knows

1942
01:13:46,520 --> 01:13:48,185
this better than I.

1943
01:13:48,185 --> 01:13:50,089
The people who
are responsible

1944
01:13:50,089 --> 01:13:51,170
for gathering the
signatures to

1945
01:13:51,170 --> 01:13:52,490
put the requirement
on the ballot

1946
01:13:52,490 --> 01:13:54,004
for voting and annexation.

1947
01:13:54,004 --> 01:13:55,640
Got together with
a developer or

1948
01:13:55,640 --> 01:13:57,080
the first
annexation proposal

1949
01:13:57,080 --> 01:13:58,579
and worked with
that developer

1950
01:13:58,579 --> 01:14:00,274
to address the
traffic issues,

1951
01:14:00,274 --> 01:14:03,199
to address the SDC
issues and other things,

1952
01:14:03,199 --> 01:14:06,499
and supported that
first annexation vote

1953
01:14:06,499 --> 01:14:10,054
because they wanted
they wanted to show,

1954
01:14:10,054 --> 01:14:12,335
among other things
that this could work,

1955
01:14:12,335 --> 01:14:13,549
that if you get together

1956
01:14:13,549 --> 01:14:14,569
and you have
the information

1957
01:14:14,569 --> 01:14:15,320
upfront about what's

1958
01:14:15,320 --> 01:14:16,759
proposed in the community,

1959
01:14:16,759 --> 01:14:18,890
can respond to it
about maybe this isn't

1960
01:14:18,890 --> 01:14:20,330
the best place for
this intersection

1961
01:14:20,330 --> 01:14:21,950
or maybe we need
something else here.

1962
01:14:21,950 --> 01:14:24,200
We need a larger
contribution

1963
01:14:24,200 --> 01:14:26,330
from the developer and
the SDC is, et cetera.

1964
01:14:26,330 --> 01:14:28,700
We can all make this
work in each, I think,

1965
01:14:28,700 --> 01:14:29,929
has a motivation
to enter into

1966
01:14:29,929 --> 01:14:31,040
that discussion because of

1967
01:14:31,040 --> 01:14:32,119
the likelihood
that the vote

1968
01:14:32,119 --> 01:14:33,695
could go either way.

1969
01:14:33,695 --> 01:14:35,990
And most annexation
votes have passed.

1970
01:14:35,990 --> 01:14:38,449
I think my
experience is in

1971
01:14:38,449 --> 01:14:42,050
the local communities
that have adopted this.

1972
01:14:42,050 --> 01:14:43,730
There's a lot of
talking going on

1973
01:14:43,730 --> 01:14:45,590
before these
annexation votes go.

1974
01:14:45,590 --> 01:14:49,400
Again. My
organization is not

1975
01:14:49,400 --> 01:14:51,319
a fan of voting
on annexation

1976
01:14:51,319 --> 01:14:53,539
as a way to address
urban form.

1977
01:14:53,539 --> 01:14:56,345
But we cannot look
at it in isolation

1978
01:14:56,345 --> 01:14:57,379
from the other issues of

1979
01:14:57,379 --> 01:14:59,315
cost and citizen
participation.

1980
01:14:59,315 --> 01:15:00,634
Okay.

1981
01:15:00,634 --> 01:15:02,570
Thank you. And I'm not
going to ask anymore

1982
01:15:02,570 --> 01:15:03,860
commissioners for
comments at this point,

1983
01:15:03,860 --> 01:15:05,179
so we don't want to
have time for us

1984
01:15:05,179 --> 01:15:07,040
to discuss what we're
gonna do with this.

1985
01:15:07,040 --> 01:15:09,840
But thank you very much.

1986
01:15:10,240 --> 01:15:12,409
Let's now have

1987
01:15:12,409 --> 01:15:13,459
our discussion
about what we're

1988
01:15:13,459 --> 01:15:14,750
going to do with this
and what we're going to

1989
01:15:14,750 --> 01:15:17,160
ask the staff to do.

1990
01:15:17,200 --> 01:15:20,074
As far as carrying
this forward.

1991
01:15:20,074 --> 01:15:22,759
0 14 has been high in

1992
01:15:22,759 --> 01:15:24,439
our priorities for
couple of years

1993
01:15:24,439 --> 01:15:25,789
with respect to
our work program.

1994
01:15:25,789 --> 01:15:28,549
Addict, maybe you
want to There's

1995
01:15:28,549 --> 01:15:30,184
no recommendation
written warning ahead

1996
01:15:30,184 --> 01:15:32,869
and note of perspective.

1997
01:15:32,869 --> 01:15:35,599
Every once in a
while you get into

1998
01:15:35,599 --> 01:15:36,860
a major discussion in

1999
01:15:36,860 --> 01:15:37,834
the last couple of years,

2000
01:15:37,834 --> 01:15:39,094
a major discussion about

2001
01:15:39,094 --> 01:15:41,675
urban growth
management issues.

2002
01:15:41,675 --> 01:15:44,060
And you would hear us say

2003
01:15:44,060 --> 01:15:46,339
perhaps that
we've been trying

2004
01:15:46,339 --> 01:15:47,825
to turn the corner

2005
01:15:47,825 --> 01:15:50,855
from early
program emphasis

2006
01:15:50,855 --> 01:15:52,609
on protecting farm and

2007
01:15:52,609 --> 01:15:54,349
forest land and maybe

2008
01:15:54,349 --> 01:15:55,879
establishing urban
growth boundaries.

2009
01:15:55,879 --> 01:15:57,230
But we haven't paid
enough attention to

2010
01:15:57,230 --> 01:15:59,074
what's going on inside
urban growth boundary.

2011
01:15:59,074 --> 01:16:01,040
I don't say that anymore.

2012
01:16:01,040 --> 01:16:02,990
And I want to make sure
that you understand

2013
01:16:02,990 --> 01:16:05,075
that in the past
four or five years,

2014
01:16:05,075 --> 01:16:05,869
we've been spending

2015
01:16:05,869 --> 01:16:07,460
an enormous amount of time

2016
01:16:07,460 --> 01:16:09,350
on how development happens

2017
01:16:09,350 --> 01:16:11,344
inside urban growth bands.

2018
01:16:11,344 --> 01:16:13,400
But what I wanted
to point out to you

2019
01:16:13,400 --> 01:16:15,694
as a matter of strategy,

2020
01:16:15,694 --> 01:16:17,269
we could have decided,

2021
01:16:17,269 --> 01:16:19,190
you could have
decided perhaps

2022
01:16:19,190 --> 01:16:21,964
five or six years ago,
maybe even longer.

2023
01:16:21,964 --> 01:16:27,259
Come to dig deeply
into new policy,

2024
01:16:27,259 --> 01:16:30,075
amend, go 14,
perhaps adopt

2025
01:16:30,075 --> 01:16:31,099
a goal 14 rule

2026
01:16:31,099 --> 01:16:33,170
and establish
requirements, e.g.

2027
01:16:33,170 --> 01:16:34,414
you might have said,

2028
01:16:34,414 --> 01:16:35,839
no urban growth boundary

2029
01:16:35,839 --> 01:16:37,309
can be expanded until

2030
01:16:37,309 --> 01:16:39,320
a community has adopted

2031
01:16:39,320 --> 01:16:41,779
and implemented an
infill program.

2032
01:16:41,779 --> 01:16:43,249
You might have adopted

2033
01:16:43,249 --> 01:16:44,959
the adequate public
facilities focus

2034
01:16:44,959 --> 01:16:46,865
public investment
proposal that

2035
01:16:46,865 --> 01:16:48,200
was adopted by excuse me,

2036
01:16:48,200 --> 01:16:50,930
it was developed
by that taskforce,

2037
01:16:50,930 --> 01:16:53,285
late 80s, early 90s.

2038
01:16:53,285 --> 01:16:55,729
Instead, we
decided to pursue

2039
01:16:55,729 --> 01:16:58,069
some other strategies
and we have pursued in

2040
01:16:58,069 --> 01:17:00,020
very vigorously the
establishment of

2041
01:17:00,020 --> 01:17:01,129
the transportation
and grows

2042
01:17:01,129 --> 01:17:03,140
management program
jointly with Oda.

2043
01:17:03,140 --> 01:17:05,179
We've poured, I
think as Laney said,

2044
01:17:05,179 --> 01:17:07,115
an enormous amount
of effort into that.

2045
01:17:07,115 --> 01:17:08,539
And the fact that you

2046
01:17:08,539 --> 01:17:11,195
don't You didn't
adopt a policy,

2047
01:17:11,195 --> 01:17:12,470
saying that doesn't mean

2048
01:17:12,470 --> 01:17:13,865
that it isn't happening.

2049
01:17:13,865 --> 01:17:15,919
If you look at lots

2050
01:17:15,919 --> 01:17:17,255
of communities
around the state,

2051
01:17:17,255 --> 01:17:20,795
in the metro area
of Corvallis, bend,

2052
01:17:20,795 --> 01:17:23,479
Bedford, all
around the state

2053
01:17:23,479 --> 01:17:24,604
where communities
are growing,

2054
01:17:24,604 --> 01:17:27,109
you would see new
kinds of development

2055
01:17:27,109 --> 01:17:28,459
happening there
that weren't

2056
01:17:28,459 --> 01:17:30,140
happening five or
six years ago.

2057
01:17:30,140 --> 01:17:31,370
We obviously don't claim

2058
01:17:31,370 --> 01:17:32,690
credit for all of that,

2059
01:17:32,690 --> 01:17:34,429
but I do think

2060
01:17:34,429 --> 01:17:36,694
that we've helped
considerably.

2061
01:17:36,694 --> 01:17:38,510
We've also put a
lot of effort into

2062
01:17:38,510 --> 01:17:40,969
developing inner
agency strategies to

2063
01:17:40,969 --> 01:17:43,685
make sure that state
agency actions

2064
01:17:43,685 --> 01:17:46,575
work toward more compact,

2065
01:17:46,575 --> 01:17:49,554
mixed use, pedestrian
friendly development.

2066
01:17:49,554 --> 01:17:51,730
That has come a long way.

2067
01:17:51,730 --> 01:17:53,725
Governor kids cyber
just last month,

2068
01:17:53,725 --> 01:17:56,335
signed an executive
order that has within it

2069
01:17:56,335 --> 01:17:58,210
quality development
objectives that are

2070
01:17:58,210 --> 01:18:00,130
directed toward all
state agencies,

2071
01:18:00,130 --> 01:18:01,659
but particularly the
five that make up

2072
01:18:01,659 --> 01:18:03,159
the Community
Solutions team telling

2073
01:18:03,159 --> 01:18:04,959
them when they
take actions,

2074
01:18:04,959 --> 01:18:06,849
when they develop programs
to make sure that

2075
01:18:06,849 --> 01:18:09,249
they promote mixed use,

2076
01:18:09,249 --> 01:18:11,964
pedestrian friendly
compact development.

2077
01:18:11,964 --> 01:18:14,559
We've worked with
cities and counties,

2078
01:18:14,559 --> 01:18:17,515
not by adopting
new policies,

2079
01:18:17,515 --> 01:18:19,045
but working with them

2080
01:18:19,045 --> 01:18:21,474
through public education,

2081
01:18:21,474 --> 01:18:23,814
technical assistance
grants, etc.

2082
01:18:23,814 --> 01:18:27,834
My point is that we've
not been idle on this.

2083
01:18:27,834 --> 01:18:30,124
We have turned the corner.

2084
01:18:30,124 --> 01:18:32,314
What we are now doing

2085
01:18:32,314 --> 01:18:34,370
is catching up, I guess,

2086
01:18:34,370 --> 01:18:35,689
a bit, taking a look at

2087
01:18:35,689 --> 01:18:37,309
the actual
policies that we

2088
01:18:37,309 --> 01:18:39,184
have and looking for gaps,

2089
01:18:39,184 --> 01:18:40,430
is there a way that we can

2090
01:18:40,430 --> 01:18:43,039
reinforce the efforts
that we've had

2091
01:18:43,039 --> 01:18:45,019
underway in the
TCM program and

2092
01:18:45,019 --> 01:18:48,140
elsewhere by examining
the policies

2093
01:18:48,140 --> 01:18:48,619
to see if there are

2094
01:18:48,619 --> 01:18:50,089
things that are
interfering

2095
01:18:50,089 --> 01:18:51,769
with the good work
that's actually

2096
01:18:51,769 --> 01:18:54,245
happening without
you having

2097
01:18:54,245 --> 01:18:57,470
adopted a new regulation
requiring it.

2098
01:18:57,470 --> 01:19:00,410
But just wanted to
add that perspective.

2099
01:19:00,410 --> 01:19:02,300
Okay. Well, take us

2100
01:19:02,300 --> 01:19:05,029
the next one or two
more sentences,

2101
01:19:05,029 --> 01:19:06,604
which is what is

2102
01:19:06,604 --> 01:19:10,069
the staff
recommendation on

2103
01:19:10,069 --> 01:19:11,510
right now or maybe landing

2104
01:19:11,510 --> 01:19:13,589
wants to deliver that.

2105
01:19:13,720 --> 01:19:17,129
You can certainly
do that. Okay.

2106
01:19:18,400 --> 01:19:22,100
I would recommend that

2107
01:19:22,100 --> 01:19:25,384
you direct us to work with

2108
01:19:25,384 --> 01:19:28,474
a stakeholder
group or groups to

2109
01:19:28,474 --> 01:19:30,589
work through the
seven issues

2110
01:19:30,589 --> 01:19:32,000
that I reviewed.

2111
01:19:32,000 --> 01:19:35,479
And it may be

2112
01:19:35,479 --> 01:19:37,070
that that is more than

2113
01:19:37,070 --> 01:19:38,974
we want to tackle
right now.

2114
01:19:38,974 --> 01:19:42,379
And I would, if
you're interested,

2115
01:19:42,379 --> 01:19:45,080
have a shorter list than

2116
01:19:45,080 --> 01:19:46,309
the shortlist that I've

2117
01:19:46,309 --> 01:19:48,230
already provided to you.

2118
01:19:48,230 --> 01:19:51,559
But I think that we

2119
01:19:51,559 --> 01:19:53,660
can we should be looking

2120
01:19:53,660 --> 01:19:55,939
especially at the
urban form issue,

2121
01:19:55,939 --> 01:19:59,000
that substantive issue,
and dealing with

2122
01:19:59,000 --> 01:20:03,560
that in the
population issues.

2123
01:20:03,560 --> 01:20:07,319
Those are the two
big ones in my mind.

2124
01:20:08,200 --> 01:20:11,029
I make a comment on my

2125
01:20:11,029 --> 01:20:12,050
observations
would be this.

2126
01:20:12,050 --> 01:20:14,059
First of all, I think
it's a wonderful report

2127
01:20:14,059 --> 01:20:15,440
and very thorough.

2128
01:20:15,440 --> 01:20:18,830
It's the most
focused analysis of

2129
01:20:18,830 --> 01:20:21,590
the inherent
difficulties in

2130
01:20:21,590 --> 01:20:23,584
trying to implement 14.

2131
01:20:23,584 --> 01:20:25,370
I agree with Charles
that we need to

2132
01:20:25,370 --> 01:20:26,959
broaden the scope
beyond just amendments

2133
01:20:26,959 --> 01:20:29,150
and we are obviously
that I've seen

2134
01:20:29,150 --> 01:20:31,550
and it hits on
all along list

2135
01:20:31,550 --> 01:20:32,629
some of them incredibly

2136
01:20:32,629 --> 01:20:33,920
esoteric that
were nonetheless

2137
01:20:33,920 --> 01:20:35,930
picked up that you

2138
01:20:35,930 --> 01:20:37,460
run into as you try and
implement the thing.

2139
01:20:37,460 --> 01:20:38,540
And I think it's
a great start.

2140
01:20:38,540 --> 01:20:39,770
Secondly, I agree
with Mary Kyle.

2141
01:20:39,770 --> 01:20:41,134
The menu is large.

2142
01:20:41,134 --> 01:20:42,709
And then to the
extent that you

2143
01:20:42,709 --> 01:20:44,600
can narrow what I think
that makes sense.

2144
01:20:44,600 --> 01:20:46,475
Third, I noticed on the

2145
01:20:46,475 --> 01:20:47,270
I think it was
bullet number

2146
01:20:47,270 --> 01:20:48,454
two or item number two,

2147
01:20:48,454 --> 01:20:49,700
there's a reference to

2148
01:20:49,700 --> 01:20:51,470
an independent work
product dealing

2149
01:20:51,470 --> 01:20:53,584
with the Mixed
Use implications.

2150
01:20:53,584 --> 01:20:54,770
And I assume that's
going to run

2151
01:20:54,770 --> 01:20:57,169
parallel or somehow
interface with this.

2152
01:20:57,169 --> 01:20:57,829
Yes.

2153
01:20:57,829 --> 01:21:01,745
Somehow align maybe,
but it's neither,

2154
01:21:01,745 --> 01:21:03,859
yeah, run parallel or

2155
01:21:03,859 --> 01:21:05,600
get incorporated
into this.

2156
01:21:05,600 --> 01:21:06,380
And I think that's sort

2157
01:21:06,380 --> 01:21:07,609
of a strategic decision

2158
01:21:07,609 --> 01:21:10,889
that the department
can finally.

2159
01:21:12,550 --> 01:21:15,499
One of the
frustrations I had in

2160
01:21:15,499 --> 01:21:18,590
the past and one of our
rulemaking exercises,

2161
01:21:18,590 --> 01:21:19,879
which was the
rural communities

2162
01:21:19,879 --> 01:21:21,229
rule as it relates to

2163
01:21:21,229 --> 01:21:24,650
stakeholder groups was in

2164
01:21:24,650 --> 01:21:25,730
I know it was
shared by at least

2165
01:21:25,730 --> 01:21:27,185
one at that time.

2166
01:21:27,185 --> 01:21:29,300
Now former
commissioner was

2167
01:21:29,300 --> 01:21:31,415
when it arrived at
the Commission,

2168
01:21:31,415 --> 01:21:32,929
it was such a

2169
01:21:32,929 --> 01:21:36,170
carefully crafted
height product

2170
01:21:36,170 --> 01:21:37,789
that met much of

2171
01:21:37,789 --> 01:21:41,059
the direction had been
set as a result of

2172
01:21:41,059 --> 01:21:42,740
this very commendable and

2173
01:21:42,740 --> 01:21:44,764
appropriate stakeholder
discussion.

2174
01:21:44,764 --> 01:21:46,385
But when it arrived to us,

2175
01:21:46,385 --> 01:21:47,959
we were left
with basically

2176
01:21:47,959 --> 01:21:49,699
punctuation questions.

2177
01:21:49,699 --> 01:21:51,290
And should it be 30 mi or

2178
01:21:51,290 --> 01:21:52,189
20 mi away from

2179
01:21:52,189 --> 01:21:54,049
the intersection where
we put them hotels.

2180
01:21:54,049 --> 01:21:56,569
I came away from
that exercise very,

2181
01:21:56,569 --> 01:21:58,580
very frustrated
because the die

2182
01:21:58,580 --> 01:22:00,620
had basically been
cast on some of

2183
01:22:00,620 --> 01:22:03,110
the larger policy
direction issues

2184
01:22:03,110 --> 01:22:05,149
long before it
ever got to us.

2185
01:22:05,149 --> 01:22:07,190
And it was very
apparent it was very

2186
01:22:07,190 --> 01:22:09,965
difficult to change
direction at that point.

2187
01:22:09,965 --> 01:22:12,469
And at one point,
off the record,

2188
01:22:12,469 --> 01:22:13,549
I had a conversation with

2189
01:22:13,549 --> 01:22:15,259
somebody that were
I'd suggested that I

2190
01:22:15,259 --> 01:22:16,460
was interested in pursuing

2191
01:22:16,460 --> 01:22:17,720
an entirely
different direction

2192
01:22:17,720 --> 01:22:18,650
on one of the issues and I

2193
01:22:18,650 --> 01:22:20,554
was advised that we
shouldn't do that

2194
01:22:20,554 --> 01:22:23,000
because the stakeholder
group had been so

2195
01:22:23,000 --> 01:22:25,189
carefully crafted and it

2196
01:22:25,189 --> 01:22:27,050
had so thoroughly
considered the direction

2197
01:22:27,050 --> 01:22:29,329
that was presented to
us that would really be

2198
01:22:29,329 --> 01:22:30,619
ill-advised to go back and

2199
01:22:30,619 --> 01:22:32,524
start over in a
different direction.

2200
01:22:32,524 --> 01:22:34,429
And that's a very

2201
01:22:34,429 --> 01:22:37,549
strong in during
frustration.

2202
01:22:37,549 --> 01:22:38,660
And I'd like to make sure

2203
01:22:38,660 --> 01:22:39,919
that doesn't happen here.

2204
01:22:39,919 --> 01:22:41,300
So to that end, if you can

2205
01:22:41,300 --> 01:22:44,779
somehow Inner Mountain
intermittent basis

2206
01:22:44,779 --> 01:22:46,280
get back to us and

2207
01:22:46,280 --> 01:22:49,940
check in on those direction
questions so that

2208
01:22:49,940 --> 01:22:51,530
there may be a
situation where there's

2209
01:22:51,530 --> 01:22:53,959
no reason to suggest a
different direction.

2210
01:22:53,959 --> 01:22:55,069
And it may very
well be that

2211
01:22:55,069 --> 01:22:55,939
the stakeholder group

2212
01:22:55,939 --> 01:22:57,140
thoroughly
considered whatever

2213
01:22:57,140 --> 01:22:58,669
the alternate approach
was that I was

2214
01:22:58,669 --> 01:23:00,980
thinking of and rejected
it appropriately.

2215
01:23:00,980 --> 01:23:02,480
But you see
where I'm going

2216
01:23:02,480 --> 01:23:03,620
if you can somehow keep us

2217
01:23:03,620 --> 01:23:06,155
involved in the
process and early on.

2218
01:23:06,155 --> 01:23:08,060
And then finally,
I'd like to

2219
01:23:08,060 --> 01:23:09,860
be involved, at
least personally,

2220
01:23:09,860 --> 01:23:11,524
and I don't think it
would be a problem

2221
01:23:11,524 --> 01:23:13,819
in that stakeholder
group or at least be

2222
01:23:13,819 --> 01:23:15,020
notified of and maybe

2223
01:23:15,020 --> 01:23:16,099
all of us be notified out

2224
01:23:16,099 --> 01:23:18,634
so we can attend
as the time comes.

2225
01:23:18,634 --> 01:23:19,970
Because that
occurs to me in

2226
01:23:19,970 --> 01:23:21,484
retrospect as one way,

2227
01:23:21,484 --> 01:23:22,699
my frustration
could have been

2228
01:23:22,699 --> 01:23:24,020
avoided and I sat

2229
01:23:24,020 --> 01:23:25,130
in on some of
those meetings,

2230
01:23:25,130 --> 01:23:26,704
I would have seen
much of that debate

2231
01:23:26,704 --> 01:23:27,980
and it may very
well be that I

2232
01:23:27,980 --> 01:23:29,360
wouldn't have it any
reason to rethink

2233
01:23:29,360 --> 01:23:31,775
it because I know that
you guys already did.

2234
01:23:31,775 --> 01:23:34,160
So those would
be my comments.

2235
01:23:34,160 --> 01:23:35,570
And again, I'd
just like to be

2236
01:23:35,570 --> 01:23:37,010
on the list if
you could give us

2237
01:23:37,010 --> 01:23:38,900
notice that the stakeholder
meetings and the

2238
01:23:38,900 --> 01:23:41,990
attendees so that we
can attend as need be.

2239
01:23:41,990 --> 01:23:43,025
I don't know that
we need to be added

2240
01:23:43,025 --> 01:23:44,119
formally or informally,

2241
01:23:44,119 --> 01:23:45,739
but just somehow keep

2242
01:23:45,739 --> 01:23:47,209
us in the loop as
you move along as

2243
01:23:47,209 --> 01:23:48,709
opposed to bring it to
us a year later with

2244
01:23:48,709 --> 01:23:51,809
a product that's
very, very precise.

2245
01:23:54,250 --> 01:23:57,560
My account would be
that the process you

2246
01:23:57,560 --> 01:23:59,975
described is I think
the process we

2247
01:23:59,975 --> 01:24:01,219
tried to go through

2248
01:24:01,219 --> 01:24:03,829
and we try to
go through on

2249
01:24:03,829 --> 01:24:04,519
all these where we have

2250
01:24:04,519 --> 01:24:05,539
a stakeholders group and

2251
01:24:05,539 --> 01:24:07,699
we may fall falter.

2252
01:24:07,699 --> 01:24:09,920
And I think that
the goal 51

2253
01:24:09,920 --> 01:24:12,795
was a good example
where that did not.

2254
01:24:12,795 --> 01:24:14,090
I thought we did that in

2255
01:24:14,090 --> 01:24:15,290
the real communities
things too,

2256
01:24:15,290 --> 01:24:17,240
but my mind is
vague now he may

2257
01:24:17,240 --> 01:24:18,319
not sound as well as we

2258
01:24:18,319 --> 01:24:19,635
could put a real
communities.

2259
01:24:19,635 --> 01:24:21,664
It was so technical
in nature

2260
01:24:21,664 --> 01:24:23,540
that it didn't have

2261
01:24:23,540 --> 01:24:25,325
a lot of big policy
components to it.

2262
01:24:25,325 --> 01:24:26,749
I readily admit
that this one

2263
01:24:26,749 --> 01:24:28,549
doesn't lend itself.
Yeah, problem.

2264
01:24:28,549 --> 01:24:30,409
But clearly,

2265
01:24:30,409 --> 01:24:32,029
I think the staff has
been very good and

2266
01:24:32,029 --> 01:24:33,170
it does follow a policy of

2267
01:24:33,170 --> 01:24:34,909
bringing the big policy
issues as they're

2268
01:24:34,909 --> 01:24:36,409
evolving to the
commission and

2269
01:24:36,409 --> 01:24:37,310
having us have a chance

2270
01:24:37,310 --> 01:24:38,569
to restaurant with them.

2271
01:24:38,569 --> 01:24:40,759
So that because also

2272
01:24:40,759 --> 01:24:41,989
it's very frustrating for

2273
01:24:41,989 --> 01:24:44,270
the stakeholder
group to get way

2274
01:24:44,270 --> 01:24:45,379
down the road and find

2275
01:24:45,379 --> 01:24:46,805
out the commission
is not with them.

2276
01:24:46,805 --> 01:24:48,559
So it doesn't
work either way

2277
01:24:48,559 --> 01:24:50,509
for them to get

2278
01:24:50,509 --> 01:24:51,920
ahead of us, for us
to get ahead of them.

2279
01:24:51,920 --> 01:24:53,059
And so we'd need to have

2280
01:24:53,059 --> 01:24:57,259
that definitely
commissioner involvement

2281
01:24:57,259 --> 01:25:00,150
in those. Very welcome.

2282
01:25:01,720 --> 01:25:03,920
Any commissioners
and want to

2283
01:25:03,920 --> 01:25:05,420
be involved in any and all

2284
01:25:05,420 --> 01:25:08,284
of the meetings will
be 100% Welcome.

2285
01:25:08,284 --> 01:25:09,484
And the more the better.

2286
01:25:09,484 --> 01:25:12,005
Because just like we
saw with goal five,

2287
01:25:12,005 --> 01:25:13,100
we got a heck of a lot

2288
01:25:13,100 --> 01:25:13,850
better product because you

2289
01:25:13,850 --> 01:25:14,540
got to pay him spend

2290
01:25:14,540 --> 01:25:17,480
as much time as you did in

2291
01:25:17,480 --> 01:25:19,639
every one of those
long, lengthy meetings?

2292
01:25:19,639 --> 01:25:19,850
Yeah.

2293
01:25:19,850 --> 01:25:21,139
And I didn't mean it
to be a criticism,

2294
01:25:21,139 --> 01:25:22,789
more just a
suggestion that

2295
01:25:22,789 --> 01:25:25,640
we forgot to point
than one sentence.

2296
01:25:25,640 --> 01:25:27,995
Mary calls comment
about 2,709 and

2297
01:25:27,995 --> 01:25:30,529
the recommended
implementation measures

2298
01:25:30,529 --> 01:25:30,859
versus

2299
01:25:30,859 --> 01:25:32,360
mandatory has been
rolling around in

2300
01:25:32,360 --> 01:25:33,995
a lot of our minds
for a long time.

2301
01:25:33,995 --> 01:25:35,210
And that was one step.

2302
01:25:35,210 --> 01:25:37,655
And now she correctly
points out,

2303
01:25:37,655 --> 01:25:39,740
this may be the time

2304
01:25:39,740 --> 01:25:41,480
be it just in
certain communities,

2305
01:25:41,480 --> 01:25:43,640
high-growth only any
number of scenarios

2306
01:25:43,640 --> 01:25:46,025
where those shift
to a mandatory,

2307
01:25:46,025 --> 01:25:47,959
whether it'd be as
a pre condition

2308
01:25:47,959 --> 01:25:49,759
preceding the expanding
EGB or whatever.

2309
01:25:49,759 --> 01:25:51,889
I want. I know you are
thinking about that.

2310
01:25:51,889 --> 01:25:53,090
I would like to make sure

2311
01:25:53,090 --> 01:25:54,590
we consider and thoroughly

2312
01:25:54,590 --> 01:25:55,850
addressed whether
it'd be at

2313
01:25:55,850 --> 01:25:57,904
across the state or in
certain communities.

2314
01:25:57,904 --> 01:25:59,540
Those and maybe
other tools

2315
01:25:59,540 --> 01:26:00,979
out of 2709 shouldn't

2316
01:26:00,979 --> 01:26:03,079
be more obligatory as

2317
01:26:03,079 --> 01:26:04,324
opposed to just voluntary?

2318
01:26:04,324 --> 01:26:05,839
Yeah, I think you
probably will anyway,

2319
01:26:05,839 --> 01:26:07,609
but I like that notion.

2320
01:26:07,609 --> 01:26:10,280
Actually, I don't think

2321
01:26:10,280 --> 01:26:13,310
those are they're a little

2322
01:26:13,310 --> 01:26:15,919
more mandatory than
they appear to

2323
01:26:15,919 --> 01:26:19,175
be in that the
exceptions process,

2324
01:26:19,175 --> 01:26:22,340
we're amending an
urban growth boundary

2325
01:26:22,340 --> 01:26:24,964
requires consideration
of alternatives.

2326
01:26:24,964 --> 01:26:28,129
So that directs you
back to saying, well,

2327
01:26:28,129 --> 01:26:29,554
what tools should you be

2328
01:26:29,554 --> 01:26:31,399
using to or could you

2329
01:26:31,399 --> 01:26:34,370
use to avoid having

2330
01:26:34,370 --> 01:26:36,380
to expand the urban
growth boundary?

2331
01:26:36,380 --> 01:26:37,609
But as you point
out in your report,

2332
01:26:37,609 --> 01:26:40,340
even that alternatives
requirement is vague.

2333
01:26:40,340 --> 01:26:42,649
You interface too,
it's not as clear.

2334
01:26:42,649 --> 01:26:44,359
Maybe you have
at a minimum,

2335
01:26:44,359 --> 01:26:45,949
those alternatives
shall include

2336
01:26:45,949 --> 01:26:48,079
13.7 out of nine.

2337
01:26:48,079 --> 01:26:50,030
And yeah, I agree
with part of

2338
01:26:50,030 --> 01:26:52,430
the problem I
see too is that

2339
01:26:52,430 --> 01:26:54,739
by the time you get to
the point where you

2340
01:26:54,739 --> 01:26:56,809
have somebody
who's saying we

2341
01:26:56,809 --> 01:26:59,404
need to expand the
urban growth boundary,

2342
01:26:59,404 --> 01:27:02,659
you're behind the
eight ball in

2343
01:27:02,659 --> 01:27:04,189
that a lot of
development has

2344
01:27:04,189 --> 01:27:06,545
already taken place in,

2345
01:27:06,545 --> 01:27:08,389
without those
tools in place.

2346
01:27:08,389 --> 01:27:12,979
And so maybe it's
not as high density

2347
01:27:12,979 --> 01:27:16,100
are needed density that

2348
01:27:16,100 --> 01:27:18,860
it should be or pattern
of development.

2349
01:27:18,860 --> 01:27:21,469
And so we would be better

2350
01:27:21,469 --> 01:27:24,250
off at working through

2351
01:27:24,250 --> 01:27:25,930
the periodic
review process

2352
01:27:25,930 --> 01:27:27,999
or whatever process

2353
01:27:27,999 --> 01:27:30,999
to proactively look at

2354
01:27:30,999 --> 01:27:32,935
reconsidering
land use as we,

2355
01:27:32,935 --> 01:27:35,140
as we go along.

2356
01:27:35,140 --> 01:27:37,870
And of course, mandatory
minimum densities

2357
01:27:37,870 --> 01:27:39,100
gets at one of those

2358
01:27:39,100 --> 01:27:40,780
problems of
under building.

2359
01:27:40,780 --> 01:27:42,880
And my observation
has been

2360
01:27:42,880 --> 01:27:44,875
in the few communities
that have done that.

2361
01:27:44,875 --> 01:27:46,540
While there was a lot
of hue and cry at

2362
01:27:46,540 --> 01:27:47,589
the outset about how

2363
01:27:47,589 --> 01:27:48,669
the world was going
to fall apart.

2364
01:27:48,669 --> 01:27:50,230
If we did this, it's

2365
01:27:50,230 --> 01:27:51,474
actually worked
fairly well.

2366
01:27:51,474 --> 01:27:54,205
Yeah, I haven't seen
that be a problem.

2367
01:27:54,205 --> 01:27:55,810
At either end
of the spectrum

2368
01:27:55,810 --> 01:27:56,934
via the neighborhood

2369
01:27:56,934 --> 01:27:58,299
is going to be faced
with it or the

2370
01:27:58,299 --> 01:28:00,709
developer who's
forced implemented.

2371
01:28:03,240 --> 01:28:05,599
There have been a
number of people

2372
01:28:05,599 --> 01:28:06,829
loading this report and we

2373
01:28:06,829 --> 01:28:08,180
ought to acknowledge
the person

2374
01:28:08,180 --> 01:28:09,620
who did all the work.

2375
01:28:09,620 --> 01:28:10,835
Lindsey Davis is
sitting there

2376
01:28:10,835 --> 01:28:11,915
plus or other staff.

2377
01:28:11,915 --> 01:28:13,219
I assume there were
others besides

2378
01:28:13,219 --> 01:28:14,945
herself, but she
headed it up.

2379
01:28:14,945 --> 01:28:18,649
So I hope you
have been quietly

2380
01:28:18,649 --> 01:28:20,390
taking about
yourself because I

2381
01:28:20,390 --> 01:28:22,565
was a very nice job.

2382
01:28:22,565 --> 01:28:25,129
I've been looking
for the right space

2383
01:28:25,129 --> 01:28:27,199
in here to interrupt
to do that.

2384
01:28:27,199 --> 01:28:29,420
And I really want to

2385
01:28:29,420 --> 01:28:32,240
express my appreciation
for Linda.

2386
01:28:32,240 --> 01:28:34,910
She he really
put herself into

2387
01:28:34,910 --> 01:28:39,419
this and I think she
enjoyed it. Actually.

2388
01:28:39,490 --> 01:28:41,030
You could read.

2389
01:28:41,030 --> 01:28:42,479
I noticed.

2390
01:28:42,580 --> 01:28:45,260
And we had

2391
01:28:45,260 --> 01:28:47,759
a very good partnership
in doing this.

2392
01:28:47,759 --> 01:28:52,825
Well, I don't think

2393
01:28:52,825 --> 01:28:54,324
Laney answered
your question.

2394
01:28:54,324 --> 01:28:57,039
Well, quite yet. You have

2395
01:28:57,039 --> 01:29:01,644
a specific plan and a
schedule. I'm sorry.

2396
01:29:01,644 --> 01:29:03,340
I didn't come here with

2397
01:29:03,340 --> 01:29:05,245
this plan or schedule.

2398
01:29:05,245 --> 01:29:07,270
I would I guess I would

2399
01:29:07,270 --> 01:29:09,414
recommend that
we worked with

2400
01:29:09,414 --> 01:29:11,470
a subcommittee from
the commission

2401
01:29:11,470 --> 01:29:13,990
that as Steve said,

2402
01:29:13,990 --> 01:29:15,430
it would be good to get

2403
01:29:15,430 --> 01:29:18,009
the constant input and

2404
01:29:18,009 --> 01:29:19,885
the model that we've had

2405
01:29:19,885 --> 01:29:22,209
with working on
the TPR recently,

2406
01:29:22,209 --> 01:29:23,440
I think is a good one.

2407
01:29:23,440 --> 01:29:26,320
So whether it's
the same members

2408
01:29:26,320 --> 01:29:27,805
are some different ones.

2409
01:29:27,805 --> 01:29:30,644
I think it'd be really
helpful in then.

2410
01:29:30,644 --> 01:29:32,165
Also bring in

2411
01:29:32,165 --> 01:29:34,369
the appropriate
stakeholders

2412
01:29:34,369 --> 01:29:36,799
and listing those.

2413
01:29:36,799 --> 01:29:39,349
I haven't done that
yet because I wanted

2414
01:29:39,349 --> 01:29:41,900
to see specifically
which issues

2415
01:29:41,900 --> 01:29:43,910
we're going to focus on.

2416
01:29:43,910 --> 01:29:49,309
But depending on the
issues and the number of

2417
01:29:49,309 --> 01:29:51,889
people either
create a group

2418
01:29:51,889 --> 01:29:54,710
or more than one group
to deal with it.

2419
01:29:54,710 --> 01:29:57,299
Will you be the
staff lead?

2420
01:29:58,240 --> 01:30:02,000
So far I think
that's case.

2421
01:30:02,000 --> 01:30:04,880
Is the thought that
we would be trying

2422
01:30:04,880 --> 01:30:05,900
to I can't remember

2423
01:30:05,900 --> 01:30:07,100
what our overall
schedule was,

2424
01:30:07,100 --> 01:30:09,230
but then we were getting
to some rulemaking

2425
01:30:09,230 --> 01:30:11,600
by the end of the biennium

2426
01:30:11,600 --> 01:30:18,020
or actually the existing
rulemaking schedule

2427
01:30:18,020 --> 01:30:21,990
doesn't show
rulemaking arthritis.

2428
01:30:22,000 --> 01:30:26,570
We have a schedule that
will involve you in

2429
01:30:26,570 --> 01:30:29,644
rulemaking on 13 subjects

2430
01:30:29,644 --> 01:30:31,879
are maybe not
quite that many,

2431
01:30:31,879 --> 01:30:36,080
but it won't absorb
the entire biennium.

2432
01:30:36,080 --> 01:30:39,799
There would be
time at the end.

2433
01:30:39,799 --> 01:30:42,139
Once these things these
other things ranging

2434
01:30:42,139 --> 01:30:45,425
from looking again at 11,

2435
01:30:45,425 --> 01:30:47,869
following the mariners
village holding

2436
01:30:47,869 --> 01:30:50,299
to work leftover from

2437
01:30:50,299 --> 01:30:51,590
the goal five
rule Adoption.

2438
01:30:51,590 --> 01:30:53,749
Once we get through
those things,

2439
01:30:53,749 --> 01:30:55,430
there would be time for

2440
01:30:55,430 --> 01:30:57,019
the Commission to take up

2441
01:30:57,019 --> 01:30:59,780
any recommended
rulemaking or

2442
01:30:59,780 --> 01:31:00,799
goal amendments that would

2443
01:31:00,799 --> 01:31:02,509
come out of this effort.

2444
01:31:02,509 --> 01:31:06,319
This is when you had

2445
01:31:06,319 --> 01:31:09,410
your work session on

2446
01:31:09,410 --> 01:31:11,854
the strategic plan
for the biennium,

2447
01:31:11,854 --> 01:31:14,524
we walked you through
the list of rulemaking,

2448
01:31:14,524 --> 01:31:15,919
a lot of which
was responsive

2449
01:31:15,919 --> 01:31:17,209
to the legislature,

2450
01:31:17,209 --> 01:31:18,395
but some of it was

2451
01:31:18,395 --> 01:31:19,609
matters you
wanted to pursue

2452
01:31:19,609 --> 01:31:22,430
such as TPR changes.

2453
01:31:22,430 --> 01:31:25,939
So once we work through
that, and I actually,

2454
01:31:25,939 --> 01:31:27,800
I don't think we would
be prepared to make

2455
01:31:27,800 --> 01:31:28,879
recommendations to you

2456
01:31:28,879 --> 01:31:30,035
before you were
through that.

2457
01:31:30,035 --> 01:31:33,874
Anyway, there is time

2458
01:31:33,874 --> 01:31:35,029
in the biennium for you

2459
01:31:35,029 --> 01:31:37,849
to address these subjects.

2460
01:31:37,849 --> 01:31:39,980
If it comes to goal

2461
01:31:39,980 --> 01:31:41,660
amendment rule changes

2462
01:31:41,660 --> 01:31:43,624
toward the end
of the biennium.

2463
01:31:43,624 --> 01:31:46,579
It seems to me that
from what I see

2464
01:31:46,579 --> 01:31:47,869
here that the magnitude

2465
01:31:47,869 --> 01:31:48,845
of these issues,
and I know,

2466
01:31:48,845 --> 01:31:50,360
I just remember from all

2467
01:31:50,360 --> 01:31:52,669
of our previous rule
making things that

2468
01:31:52,669 --> 01:31:56,899
just the appearance of

2469
01:31:56,899 --> 01:31:58,804
simplicity is
very misleading.

2470
01:31:58,804 --> 01:32:00,709
And that these,

2471
01:32:00,709 --> 01:32:03,139
even this population
projection thing will be

2472
01:32:03,139 --> 01:32:05,479
a very complicated
figure out

2473
01:32:05,479 --> 01:32:07,399
how you're going
to coordinate

2474
01:32:07,399 --> 01:32:08,869
and who's gonna
be responsible

2475
01:32:08,869 --> 01:32:10,339
for what and what you

2476
01:32:10,339 --> 01:32:13,325
do in case a,
B, C, D, and E.

2477
01:32:13,325 --> 01:32:15,829
So I can see a
good six months of

2478
01:32:15,829 --> 01:32:18,349
work before it
could even come to

2479
01:32:18,349 --> 01:32:20,615
us for rulemaking or

2480
01:32:20,615 --> 01:32:23,610
will change if not longer.

2481
01:32:24,550 --> 01:32:26,045
I can.

2482
01:32:26,045 --> 01:32:27,845
I think it's just
gonna be important to

2483
01:32:27,845 --> 01:32:28,969
narrow down and decide

2484
01:32:28,969 --> 01:32:30,334
which ones you
really gotta do.

2485
01:32:30,334 --> 01:32:31,490
There may be
some that were,

2486
01:32:31,490 --> 01:32:33,154
there will be when you get

2487
01:32:33,154 --> 01:32:35,870
Phil's group and other
stakeholders involved.

2488
01:32:35,870 --> 01:32:39,020
There may be ready
consensus and we can sum,

2489
01:32:39,020 --> 01:32:40,070
because you actually
have a list

2490
01:32:40,070 --> 01:32:41,390
of 12 issues here.

2491
01:32:41,390 --> 01:32:42,710
Maybe some of the smaller

2492
01:32:42,710 --> 01:32:43,759
ones you can take care of

2493
01:32:43,759 --> 01:32:47,170
and they will be easy.

2494
01:32:47,170 --> 01:32:50,420
But I can just
see e.g. E. See

2495
01:32:50,520 --> 01:32:53,500
that could be years

2496
01:32:53,500 --> 01:32:55,370
trying to figure that out.

2497
01:32:57,930 --> 01:33:00,279
You're going to
need to narrow down

2498
01:33:00,279 --> 01:33:01,945
and take care of their
most critical ones.

2499
01:33:01,945 --> 01:33:03,445
And you've
already messier,

2500
01:33:03,445 --> 01:33:04,390
you already mentioned that

2501
01:33:04,390 --> 01:33:05,290
and you've already
said what you

2502
01:33:05,290 --> 01:33:07,450
think you're feeling
is they might be,

2503
01:33:07,450 --> 01:33:08,289
but I think we need to get

2504
01:33:08,289 --> 01:33:09,730
the stakeholders involved
and what they're

2505
01:33:09,730 --> 01:33:11,229
feeling is too about

2506
01:33:11,229 --> 01:33:13,510
what would help them
and not make it worse.

2507
01:33:13,510 --> 01:33:14,710
Because I'm real mindful

2508
01:33:14,710 --> 01:33:17,665
of Phil's comments
for us not to

2509
01:33:17,665 --> 01:33:18,879
get into this and actually

2510
01:33:18,879 --> 01:33:22,270
make life more
complicated,

2511
01:33:22,270 --> 01:33:24,570
harder for the cities

2512
01:33:24,570 --> 01:33:26,804
who want to focus
on other things.

2513
01:33:26,804 --> 01:33:27,869
And you know, one of
the things that's

2514
01:33:27,869 --> 01:33:28,770
going to happen bill,

2515
01:33:28,770 --> 01:33:30,119
is you're going to
get into this and

2516
01:33:30,119 --> 01:33:31,709
people are suddenly
going to shift from,

2517
01:33:31,709 --> 01:33:34,139
maybe we need to
tweak the rule to,

2518
01:33:34,139 --> 01:33:35,369
well, maybe we should just

2519
01:33:35,369 --> 01:33:37,259
revisit the goal language.

2520
01:33:37,259 --> 01:33:40,259
Then suddenly not only
expands the time,

2521
01:33:40,259 --> 01:33:42,959
but it also puts the
fields of the world and

2522
01:33:42,959 --> 01:33:45,089
his constituency
and even more panic

2523
01:33:45,089 --> 01:33:46,649
because now
we're not only,

2524
01:33:46,649 --> 01:33:47,879
I mean, we're
talking about

2525
01:33:47,879 --> 01:33:49,350
modifying goals so
that, you know,

2526
01:33:49,350 --> 01:33:50,850
that's where this debate
will go on some of

2527
01:33:50,850 --> 01:33:52,050
these points because of

2528
01:33:52,050 --> 01:33:53,475
the language
that's involved.

2529
01:33:53,475 --> 01:33:54,840
But something
that goal changes

2530
01:33:54,840 --> 01:33:55,935
may be it may help

2531
01:33:55,935 --> 01:33:58,649
minor just elevates
people's anxiety,

2532
01:33:58,649 --> 01:33:59,939
I suspect when you
start talking about

2533
01:33:59,939 --> 01:34:01,544
amending goal 14, right?

2534
01:34:01,544 --> 01:34:03,419
Well, if there are areas

2535
01:34:03,419 --> 01:34:05,474
where this is
already happening,

2536
01:34:05,474 --> 01:34:08,670
dick said, I would
hope we would spend

2537
01:34:08,670 --> 01:34:10,050
our time and other areas

2538
01:34:10,050 --> 01:34:13,440
where where things
aren't happening.

2539
01:34:13,440 --> 01:34:16,695
The question had talked to

2540
01:34:16,695 --> 01:34:20,249
last about an issue
with Goal 11.

2541
01:34:20,249 --> 01:34:23,370
Does this clean
up the situation

2542
01:34:23,370 --> 01:34:24,899
where some things are

2543
01:34:24,899 --> 01:34:26,690
approved by the
Commission?

2544
01:34:26,690 --> 01:34:31,350
Then you also have the
definition in Goal 11

2545
01:34:31,350 --> 01:34:32,609
was put together by

2546
01:34:32,609 --> 01:34:33,930
the staff but
not removed by

2547
01:34:33,930 --> 01:34:37,799
the is this cleanup
that discrepancy?

2548
01:34:37,799 --> 01:34:38,985
Again,

2549
01:34:38,985 --> 01:34:39,929
I'm not familiar with

2550
01:34:39,929 --> 01:34:40,710
what you're talking about.

2551
01:34:40,710 --> 01:34:43,229
The last do you want
to help me out here?

2552
01:34:43,229 --> 01:34:48,885
Definition of
the goals. Goal.

2553
01:34:48,885 --> 01:34:51,135
It's not include schools,

2554
01:34:51,135 --> 01:34:54,570
but there is a
definition that

2555
01:34:54,570 --> 01:34:56,369
includes schools that was

2556
01:34:56,369 --> 01:34:58,500
never approved by
the Commission.

2557
01:34:58,500 --> 01:35:00,629
I believe that
that definition

2558
01:35:00,629 --> 01:35:01,920
was approved by
the commissioners.

2559
01:35:01,920 --> 01:35:05,010
The definitions to
the goals that were

2560
01:35:05,010 --> 01:35:09,194
adopted as part
of the goals,

2561
01:35:09,194 --> 01:35:11,430
they're in the back
and they include

2562
01:35:11,430 --> 01:35:12,569
a definition of

2563
01:35:12,569 --> 01:35:14,760
public facilities
or key facilities.

2564
01:35:14,760 --> 01:35:15,480
I think that is

2565
01:35:15,480 --> 01:35:17,669
different definition
that's in

2566
01:35:17,669 --> 01:35:20,459
Goal 11 of public
facilities

2567
01:35:20,459 --> 01:35:21,629
and services as well.

2568
01:35:21,629 --> 01:35:23,895
I talked to one of
the inconsistencies

2569
01:35:23,895 --> 01:35:25,500
that the staff
had done that and

2570
01:35:25,500 --> 01:35:27,375
it sounded like it
had never come.

2571
01:35:27,375 --> 01:35:29,699
I apologize if I gave
you that impression.

2572
01:35:29,699 --> 01:35:30,929
I don t think
that's correct.

2573
01:35:30,929 --> 01:35:32,249
I think both of
these definitions

2574
01:35:32,249 --> 01:35:33,765
were adopted by
the commission.

2575
01:35:33,765 --> 01:35:34,110
It's

2576
01:35:34,110 --> 01:35:35,969
an inconsistency in
the definitions that's

2577
01:35:35,969 --> 01:35:37,185
pointed out in the

2578
01:35:37,185 --> 01:35:38,775
in the report that's
in front of you.

2579
01:35:38,775 --> 01:35:40,635
So potentially we
could resolve that.

2580
01:35:40,635 --> 01:35:42,389
You can resolve that when

2581
01:35:42,389 --> 01:35:45,480
because it's public
facilities and services

2582
01:35:45,480 --> 01:35:46,574
that are different
expressions

2583
01:35:46,574 --> 01:35:48,540
used and they don't always

2584
01:35:48,540 --> 01:35:52,305
include the same
string of service.

2585
01:35:52,305 --> 01:35:53,940
And so one of

2586
01:35:53,940 --> 01:35:56,340
the issues could be
to reconcile that and

2587
01:35:56,340 --> 01:35:59,129
make more sense of
it is currently in

2588
01:35:59,129 --> 01:36:01,290
the program that's listed

2589
01:36:01,290 --> 01:36:03,165
within the top seven.

2590
01:36:03,165 --> 01:36:04,605
No.

2591
01:36:04,605 --> 01:36:05,880
Go ahead.

2592
01:36:05,880 --> 01:36:08,310
I was just going to shift
gears a little bit.

2593
01:36:08,310 --> 01:36:10,650
What effect is a
governor's executive order

2594
01:36:10,650 --> 01:36:12,074
have on our commission?

2595
01:36:12,074 --> 01:36:14,460
I mean, he's in this
order that I read here.

2596
01:36:14,460 --> 01:36:16,619
He's laid out
some deadlines

2597
01:36:16,619 --> 01:36:18,134
for us is April 30th.

2598
01:36:18,134 --> 01:36:20,805
We have to prepare a
report by December 31st.

2599
01:36:20,805 --> 01:36:22,020
We need to have
some implementing

2600
01:36:22,020 --> 01:36:23,520
language on how to

2601
01:36:23,520 --> 01:36:26,804
develop quality
development objectives.

2602
01:36:26,804 --> 01:36:28,949
I mean, is that
going to speed

2603
01:36:28,949 --> 01:36:30,015
this process up?

2604
01:36:30,015 --> 01:36:31,379
And you're talking
about a biennium.

2605
01:36:31,379 --> 01:36:32,249
It sounds like
the governor

2606
01:36:32,249 --> 01:36:34,180
wants it this year.

2607
01:36:34,670 --> 01:36:37,350
The executive order
first time I've seen

2608
01:36:37,350 --> 01:36:40,469
an executive
order, I'm new.

2609
01:36:40,469 --> 01:36:43,590
The following are ready
in you're going to

2610
01:36:43,590 --> 01:36:46,860
address it as well.

2611
01:36:46,860 --> 01:36:48,239
Again, they'll probably be

2612
01:36:48,239 --> 01:36:49,769
running on the same track.

2613
01:36:49,769 --> 01:36:51,539
If you look at
the thing that

2614
01:36:51,539 --> 01:36:52,560
the executive order and

2615
01:36:52,560 --> 01:36:55,350
asks the five
agencies to do.

2616
01:36:55,350 --> 01:36:57,720
This is on page three
of the executive order.

2617
01:36:57,720 --> 01:36:59,835
It says no later
than April 30, 98,

2618
01:36:59,835 --> 01:37:01,365
each community
solutions team

2619
01:37:01,365 --> 01:37:02,834
agency, we are
one of them,

2620
01:37:02,834 --> 01:37:04,530
shall submit a report to

2621
01:37:04,530 --> 01:37:06,059
the Governor
explaining here

2622
01:37:06,059 --> 01:37:07,769
indicating how it
will implement

2623
01:37:07,769 --> 01:37:10,109
the quality development
agent objectives

2624
01:37:10,109 --> 01:37:11,280
through agency programs.

2625
01:37:11,280 --> 01:37:13,080
So one thing that

2626
01:37:13,080 --> 01:37:15,269
we would include
in that report

2627
01:37:15,269 --> 01:37:18,105
is what the Commission

2628
01:37:18,105 --> 01:37:21,029
in the department are
doing on this subject.

2629
01:37:21,029 --> 01:37:22,950
We would indicate
to him that

2630
01:37:22,950 --> 01:37:24,824
we have begun to implement

2631
01:37:24,824 --> 01:37:26,624
a departmental
work program

2632
01:37:26,624 --> 01:37:30,974
that analyzes the
gaps in go 14

2633
01:37:30,974 --> 01:37:34,454
and will involve possibly
commission action

2634
01:37:34,454 --> 01:37:35,760
later in the year where

2635
01:37:35,760 --> 01:37:37,919
later in the
biennium at least,

2636
01:37:37,919 --> 01:37:39,719
as well as other I mean,

2637
01:37:39,719 --> 01:37:40,620
that's just one thing

2638
01:37:40,620 --> 01:37:42,639
that we go in that report.

2639
01:37:48,110 --> 01:37:50,909
Well, does anybody
want to make

2640
01:37:50,909 --> 01:37:54,910
I mentioned a process
related things.

2641
01:37:55,580 --> 01:37:59,175
Wouldn't be
possible to have a

2642
01:37:59,175 --> 01:38:00,480
stakeholders

2643
01:38:00,480 --> 01:38:04,170
meeting members of
this commission.

2644
01:38:04,170 --> 01:38:08,175
It may involve
more than one.

2645
01:38:08,175 --> 01:38:14,235
Which following
staff could come

2646
01:38:14,235 --> 01:38:22,124
with a work plan that
addresses this issue.

2647
01:38:22,124 --> 01:38:25,590
We consider that in

2648
01:38:25,590 --> 01:38:27,360
light of the
inflammation that's been

2649
01:38:27,360 --> 01:38:28,679
developed from

2650
01:38:28,679 --> 01:38:30,359
the initial one or

2651
01:38:30,359 --> 01:38:34,269
more meetings with
stakeholders.

2652
01:38:34,820 --> 01:38:38,460
Because I think
there's too much for

2653
01:38:38,460 --> 01:38:41,309
us to kind of doing

2654
01:38:41,309 --> 01:38:47,549
everything by January
99 Proceeding.

2655
01:38:47,549 --> 01:38:50,909
But secondly,
I was prepared

2656
01:38:50,909 --> 01:38:54,449
to go into two or
three of the issues

2657
01:38:54,449 --> 01:38:57,640
that I would
put prominent.

2658
01:38:58,130 --> 01:39:01,169
One of them would
be the population

2659
01:39:01,169 --> 01:39:03,450
because I think
the first one,

2660
01:39:03,450 --> 01:39:05,204
because that's related to

2661
01:39:05,204 --> 01:39:07,110
the interests of the state

2662
01:39:07,110 --> 01:39:09,345
and doing some
things regionally.

2663
01:39:09,345 --> 01:39:12,315
Think that's entirely
appropriate.

2664
01:39:12,315 --> 01:39:15,579
But secondly, I think

2665
01:39:15,590 --> 01:39:18,645
two or three of
the other issues

2666
01:39:18,645 --> 01:39:20,370
would be ultimately

2667
01:39:20,370 --> 01:39:22,739
related to periodic
review and

2668
01:39:22,739 --> 01:39:23,610
the observation

2669
01:39:23,610 --> 01:39:26,729
that Commissioner
Pfeiffer was

2670
01:39:26,729 --> 01:39:30,630
making about Indian viewer

2671
01:39:30,630 --> 01:39:33,284
responded about

2672
01:39:33,284 --> 01:39:36,809
matters being
considered before,

2673
01:39:36,809 --> 01:39:38,580
prior to the point in

2674
01:39:38,580 --> 01:39:42,069
time when you
adjust the EGB?

2675
01:39:42,080 --> 01:39:46,214
I think that has
potential power.

2676
01:39:46,214 --> 01:39:48,749
I could cite some
examples in Corvallis

2677
01:39:48,749 --> 01:39:51,525
were some changes made,

2678
01:39:51,525 --> 01:39:53,939
even though we're
not discussing

2679
01:39:53,939 --> 01:39:56,310
the UVB that are entirely

2680
01:39:56,310 --> 01:39:58,770
related to things
which you might want

2681
01:39:58,770 --> 01:40:01,350
to mandate being
considered or you may not.

2682
01:40:01,350 --> 01:40:04,529
But I think that's the
sort of thing that

2683
01:40:04,529 --> 01:40:07,064
the Commission to

2684
01:40:07,064 --> 01:40:10,694
get through the
stakeholders.

2685
01:40:10,694 --> 01:40:13,440
Then if that we're done,

2686
01:40:13,440 --> 01:40:16,455
let's say three-month
period of time.

2687
01:40:16,455 --> 01:40:20,140
I think in April we be

2688
01:40:20,990 --> 01:40:24,779
optimistic to then narrow

2689
01:40:24,779 --> 01:40:28,090
the focus in Leon
will work plan.

2690
01:40:33,560 --> 01:40:38,234
Basically. What
you had in mind.

2691
01:40:38,234 --> 01:40:40,874
That sounds like a
good course of action.

2692
01:40:40,874 --> 01:40:42,554
I think we do need

2693
01:40:42,554 --> 01:40:46,019
these upfront input
from stakeholders

2694
01:40:46,019 --> 01:40:47,670
about their concerns and

2695
01:40:47,670 --> 01:40:48,839
what's important to them

2696
01:40:48,839 --> 01:40:52,230
before we go any further.

2697
01:40:52,230 --> 01:40:53,700
One thing it seemed to me,

2698
01:40:53,700 --> 01:40:56,550
I think you already
mentioned this is that if

2699
01:40:56,550 --> 01:40:57,659
most efficient way to get

2700
01:40:57,659 --> 01:41:00,150
through this, maybe to,

2701
01:41:00,150 --> 01:41:01,620
to get the stakeholders

2702
01:41:01,620 --> 01:41:03,600
as larger group as
you can together

2703
01:41:03,600 --> 01:41:05,909
and commissioners and then

2704
01:41:05,909 --> 01:41:08,099
decide on the priorities
and then breaking

2705
01:41:08,099 --> 01:41:08,999
it work groups and have

2706
01:41:08,999 --> 01:41:10,889
somebody for people go

2707
01:41:10,889 --> 01:41:12,179
off and it'll be
responsible for

2708
01:41:12,179 --> 01:41:13,830
coming back with
issue number one,

2709
01:41:13,830 --> 01:41:15,869
taken care of
so many months

2710
01:41:15,869 --> 01:41:17,879
and somebody
else goes works.

2711
01:41:17,879 --> 01:41:18,990
I should too, if S are

2712
01:41:18,990 --> 01:41:21,600
chosen rather than
a large group

2713
01:41:21,600 --> 01:41:23,740
trying to work
on all of them.

2714
01:41:25,880 --> 01:41:28,930
I think you already
mentioned that.

2715
01:41:32,060 --> 01:41:34,725
I don't think we
need a formal

2716
01:41:34,725 --> 01:41:36,660
oh, Randy, Sorry.

2717
01:41:36,660 --> 01:41:38,790
I was just going
to make a motion.

2718
01:41:38,790 --> 01:41:39,719
Go ahead.

2719
01:41:39,719 --> 01:41:41,459
I was going to I think

2720
01:41:41,459 --> 01:41:44,205
all the discussion fits
within the context of

2721
01:41:44,205 --> 01:41:46,229
the staff recommendation
included in

2722
01:41:46,229 --> 01:41:49,574
the written
material before us.

2723
01:41:49,574 --> 01:41:51,180
It adds a little
more detailed with

2724
01:41:51,180 --> 01:41:52,695
the staff said, but I
think it's consistent.

2725
01:41:52,695 --> 01:41:53,280
I just gonna move

2726
01:41:53,280 --> 01:41:55,599
approval staff
recommendation.

2727
01:41:56,780 --> 01:42:01,710
That further discussion.

2728
01:42:01,710 --> 01:42:03,344
All those in favor Aye.

2729
01:42:03,344 --> 01:42:04,215
Aye. Aye.

2730
01:42:04,215 --> 01:42:08,790
Was no caries. Nice
job, everybody.

2731
01:42:08,790 --> 01:42:11,835
And you have full
employment for

2732
01:42:11,835 --> 01:42:16,600
another year or two or
three or four or five.

2733
01:42:22,600 --> 01:42:27,680
Accounting? Rent lakes.

2734
01:42:27,680 --> 01:42:30,660
When I run to the
restroom acquainted.

2735
01:42:45,160 --> 01:42:48,305
Rent the morning.

2736
01:42:48,305 --> 01:42:49,880
The record I'm
Brent flight,

2737
01:42:49,880 --> 01:42:51,020
the field
representative with

2738
01:42:51,020 --> 01:42:53,400
the staff or
Eastern Oregon.

2739
01:42:53,950 --> 01:42:56,599
This issue has come before

2740
01:42:56,599 --> 01:42:59,635
the Commission,
both at there.

2741
01:42:59,635 --> 01:43:01,409
In the last two
meetings before

2742
01:43:01,409 --> 01:43:04,079
the commission and we

2743
01:43:04,079 --> 01:43:05,189
are bringing
this issue back.

2744
01:43:05,189 --> 01:43:06,945
We will be continuing

2745
01:43:06,945 --> 01:43:09,929
recommending that
you hear this issue

2746
01:43:09,929 --> 01:43:11,039
over the next
few months to

2747
01:43:11,039 --> 01:43:12,089
see how Cook County

2748
01:43:12,089 --> 01:43:15,540
does implement some of
the recommendations.

2749
01:43:15,540 --> 01:43:19,245
In our report that's
in your packet.

2750
01:43:19,245 --> 01:43:23,655
We have gone through
and summarize both what

2751
01:43:23,655 --> 01:43:26,685
occurred at the
October 24th meeting

2752
01:43:26,685 --> 01:43:29,069
and then the December
5th meeting,

2753
01:43:29,069 --> 01:43:30,839
and then brought
up what we're

2754
01:43:30,839 --> 01:43:31,860
recommending and what

2755
01:43:31,860 --> 01:43:33,090
we've found for today's,

2756
01:43:33,090 --> 01:43:34,619
we'll continue
to do that for

2757
01:43:34,619 --> 01:43:36,719
the Commission to upgrade
you at each report.

2758
01:43:36,719 --> 01:43:38,460
So one, you know
what's occurred in

2759
01:43:38,460 --> 01:43:39,329
the past and what is

2760
01:43:39,329 --> 01:43:41,579
happening in the
present time.

2761
01:43:41,579 --> 01:43:45,539
At the meeting
in December,

2762
01:43:45,539 --> 01:43:48,960
the commission
wanted to do

2763
01:43:48,960 --> 01:43:50,849
the department
and the county

2764
01:43:50,849 --> 01:43:53,655
to enter into a memorandum
of understanding.

2765
01:43:53,655 --> 01:43:57,044
We have that memorandum
nearly agreed to.

2766
01:43:57,044 --> 01:43:58,635
In your packet. There was

2767
01:43:58,635 --> 01:44:01,049
a memorandum sent out.

2768
01:44:01,049 --> 01:44:02,370
It has been sent
back to us.

2769
01:44:02,370 --> 01:44:03,660
We've revised it against

2770
01:44:03,660 --> 01:44:04,815
that back to the county.

2771
01:44:04,815 --> 01:44:06,900
Am I understanding
Wednesday night meeting

2772
01:44:06,900 --> 01:44:08,039
with Peter Shannon,

2773
01:44:08,039 --> 01:44:09,929
our other plenty of
director county council

2774
01:44:09,929 --> 01:44:11,850
who you met at the
last two meetings,

2775
01:44:11,850 --> 01:44:13,649
except for a couple
of minor words.

2776
01:44:13,649 --> 01:44:16,109
I think we have finally
reached an agreement.

2777
01:44:16,109 --> 01:44:17,819
And the only
changes to the one

2778
01:44:17,819 --> 01:44:19,859
that you have
in your packet

2779
01:44:19,859 --> 01:44:24,990
is under item three
with not selling units.

2780
01:44:24,990 --> 01:44:27,599
We clarify that
a little bit.

2781
01:44:27,599 --> 01:44:30,720
Basically to say that
the county could sell

2782
01:44:30,720 --> 01:44:32,145
some lands out there

2783
01:44:32,145 --> 01:44:34,499
if attract with an
adjacent ranch bar,

2784
01:44:34,499 --> 01:44:36,389
so outside the three
existing units

2785
01:44:36,389 --> 01:44:37,710
of Riverside ranch,
in other words,

2786
01:44:37,710 --> 01:44:39,210
of one of the ranchers
wanted to buy

2787
01:44:39,210 --> 01:44:41,204
a unit on the fringe.

2788
01:44:41,204 --> 01:44:43,049
We saw no problem
with that.

2789
01:44:43,049 --> 01:44:45,150
Attract with another track

2790
01:44:45,150 --> 01:44:46,679
where the dwelling
is already there.

2791
01:44:46,679 --> 01:44:48,629
They want to
buy a tractor,

2792
01:44:48,629 --> 01:44:51,090
emerge it into their
already existing

2793
01:44:51,090 --> 01:44:52,844
holding where there's
a residential unit.

2794
01:44:52,844 --> 01:44:53,985
Again, no problem.

2795
01:44:53,985 --> 01:44:56,670
And third one is
if the county owns

2796
01:44:56,670 --> 01:44:57,900
an entire track
with three or

2797
01:44:57,900 --> 01:44:59,655
four more parcels, fine.

2798
01:44:59,655 --> 01:45:01,634
If it's a large parcel.

2799
01:45:01,634 --> 01:45:03,584
Again, don't
see a problem.

2800
01:45:03,584 --> 01:45:04,890
But what we don't want is

2801
01:45:04,890 --> 01:45:06,149
the county solid five acre

2802
01:45:06,149 --> 01:45:07,890
parcels and then
somebody coming

2803
01:45:07,890 --> 01:45:10,049
in for an application.

2804
01:45:10,049 --> 01:45:12,239
And the I believe

2805
01:45:12,239 --> 01:45:14,400
the county has agreed
to that wording.

2806
01:45:14,400 --> 01:45:17,249
And then what the
county asked us under

2807
01:45:17,249 --> 01:45:20,250
the DCL DLC D
agrees to they want

2808
01:45:20,250 --> 01:45:22,335
us awarding on the
pile Butte area

2809
01:45:22,335 --> 01:45:24,720
and the department
would assist

2810
01:45:24,720 --> 01:45:26,940
with the county working
with accounting on

2811
01:45:26,940 --> 01:45:29,220
resolving that Powell
Butte study area,

2812
01:45:29,220 --> 01:45:30,419
which we've
never raised as

2813
01:45:30,419 --> 01:45:31,904
part of the
enforcement order,

2814
01:45:31,904 --> 01:45:33,239
but the county
wanted that,

2815
01:45:33,239 --> 01:45:35,369
so we were continuing
to do that.

2816
01:45:35,369 --> 01:45:36,450
We're working
with a county

2817
01:45:36,450 --> 01:45:37,844
on that study area.

2818
01:45:37,844 --> 01:45:39,539
And we will go again,

2819
01:45:39,539 --> 01:45:40,799
It's assist the
county and we

2820
01:45:40,799 --> 01:45:42,555
will continue to
work with them.

2821
01:45:42,555 --> 01:45:44,145
I think the memorandum of

2822
01:45:44,145 --> 01:45:45,719
we'll be in place and

2823
01:45:45,719 --> 01:45:46,949
will be totally signed and

2824
01:45:46,949 --> 01:45:48,690
agreed in very
short order,

2825
01:45:48,690 --> 01:45:50,429
probably within the next

2826
01:45:50,429 --> 01:45:52,784
Wednesday's Brooke
County meeting.

2827
01:45:52,784 --> 01:45:55,980
Okay. We have

2828
01:45:55,980 --> 01:45:57,389
one person who wants
to speak to us all,

2829
01:45:57,389 --> 01:45:59,520
so I don't want you
to go away while I'm

2830
01:45:59,520 --> 01:46:03,779
away or just good for
you, just stay there.

2831
01:46:03,779 --> 01:46:05,819
Blair, would you?
I don't know how

2832
01:46:05,819 --> 01:46:07,890
gym since you've player

2833
01:46:07,890 --> 01:46:09,120
is going to take care of

2834
01:46:09,120 --> 01:46:12,640
the water to go away.

2835
01:46:13,040 --> 01:46:16,020
I had one question
before Blair starts on

2836
01:46:16,020 --> 01:46:18,149
these Riverside ranch
consolidations,

2837
01:46:18,149 --> 01:46:19,109
you're going to
require that

2838
01:46:19,109 --> 01:46:21,029
those small lots at

2839
01:46:21,029 --> 01:46:22,829
the large people on
the edge or pick

2840
01:46:22,829 --> 01:46:25,990
up that that becomes
one parcel right?

2841
01:46:25,990 --> 01:46:28,850
Now. We very
clearly did not

2842
01:46:28,850 --> 01:46:31,100
intend for the county
as you continue.

2843
01:46:31,100 --> 01:46:31,939
So we're gonna be

2844
01:46:31,939 --> 01:46:33,230
working over the
next six months and

2845
01:46:33,230 --> 01:46:34,339
exactly how to work

2846
01:46:34,339 --> 01:46:36,110
this issue, how
to consolidate.

2847
01:46:36,110 --> 01:46:37,970
The county has
about 20% of

2848
01:46:37,970 --> 01:46:39,139
the land and those units

2849
01:46:39,139 --> 01:46:40,415
are in county ownership.

2850
01:46:40,415 --> 01:46:42,169
We just don't want the
county selling off

2851
01:46:42,169 --> 01:46:44,689
five acre parcels that
they did in the past.

2852
01:46:44,689 --> 01:46:46,429
I just want to
note though,

2853
01:46:46,429 --> 01:46:48,305
that there's
no requirement

2854
01:46:48,305 --> 01:46:51,514
that county not
sell these lots.

2855
01:46:51,514 --> 01:46:52,984
What we're
talking about is

2856
01:46:52,984 --> 01:46:56,300
an agreement that
they would not for

2857
01:46:56,300 --> 01:46:58,010
a time being unless except

2858
01:46:58,010 --> 01:47:00,019
under certain
circumstances as we try

2859
01:47:00,019 --> 01:47:02,329
to come to an agreement
with them about

2860
01:47:02,329 --> 01:47:05,820
a long-term solution
for that tough problem.

2861
01:47:08,630 --> 01:47:11,429
Good morning. My name
is Blair bats and I'm

2862
01:47:11,429 --> 01:47:13,604
representing 1,000
friends of Oregon.

2863
01:47:13,604 --> 01:47:16,140
As you know, 1,000
friends had urged

2864
01:47:16,140 --> 01:47:17,759
you at least twice

2865
01:47:17,759 --> 01:47:19,395
to adopt
Enforcement Order.

2866
01:47:19,395 --> 01:47:20,789
And you chose not to

2867
01:47:20,789 --> 01:47:21,930
adopt an enforcement order

2868
01:47:21,930 --> 01:47:22,620
because you thought it

2869
01:47:22,620 --> 01:47:24,209
would be more effective to

2870
01:47:24,209 --> 01:47:25,304
work with the county

2871
01:47:25,304 --> 01:47:26,729
outside of
enforcement order to

2872
01:47:26,729 --> 01:47:28,650
get the kind
of compliance.

2873
01:47:28,650 --> 01:47:29,789
In particular with

2874
01:47:29,789 --> 01:47:31,364
the non-pharm
dwelling criteria

2875
01:47:31,364 --> 01:47:33,765
and non farmland
division criteria.

2876
01:47:33,765 --> 01:47:35,939
I would like to
just sort of be

2877
01:47:35,939 --> 01:47:37,560
here as a watchdog
reminding

2878
01:47:37,560 --> 01:47:38,970
you of how and to what

2879
01:47:38,970 --> 01:47:41,309
extent your memorandum
of understanding,

2880
01:47:41,309 --> 01:47:42,360
which is what
you're really

2881
01:47:42,360 --> 01:47:43,409
pursuing in lieu of

2882
01:47:43,409 --> 01:47:45,495
an enforcement
order is working.

2883
01:47:45,495 --> 01:47:47,429
In our opinion, We're
very interested in

2884
01:47:47,429 --> 01:47:50,085
seeing it
followed closely.

2885
01:47:50,085 --> 01:47:52,890
First of all, you don't
have a memorandum of

2886
01:47:52,890 --> 01:47:54,539
understanding
yet that makes

2887
01:47:54,539 --> 01:47:55,770
us a little anxious.

2888
01:47:55,770 --> 01:47:57,630
Wants you to be
vigilant about

2889
01:47:57,630 --> 01:48:00,659
ensuring that that
does get into place.

2890
01:48:00,659 --> 01:48:03,480
But those items and you

2891
01:48:03,480 --> 01:48:05,624
can just go down
the list with me.

2892
01:48:05,624 --> 01:48:08,565
I'm quick, County has

2893
01:48:08,565 --> 01:48:12,119
mostly adopted the
proposed revisions.

2894
01:48:12,119 --> 01:48:14,099
That's a positive thing.

2895
01:48:14,099 --> 01:48:15,524
Yeah. A few revisions?

2896
01:48:15,524 --> 01:48:18,630
Yes. As as we've
testified before,

2897
01:48:18,630 --> 01:48:20,459
they had to comply
with those laws

2898
01:48:20,459 --> 01:48:22,499
already and they
hadn't been complying.

2899
01:48:22,499 --> 01:48:24,284
So we don't think
that's a panacea.

2900
01:48:24,284 --> 01:48:25,395
That's progress.

2901
01:48:25,395 --> 01:48:27,299
It's good, but it's not,

2902
01:48:27,299 --> 01:48:30,360
it doesn't answer
all of the problems.

2903
01:48:30,360 --> 01:48:32,370
We don't know yet whether

2904
01:48:32,370 --> 01:48:33,885
Crook County is applying

2905
01:48:33,885 --> 01:48:35,010
the applicable
standards of

2906
01:48:35,010 --> 01:48:36,029
the state standards or

2907
01:48:36,029 --> 01:48:36,540
the ones in

2908
01:48:36,540 --> 01:48:37,829
their ordinance
because they haven't

2909
01:48:37,829 --> 01:48:39,839
really dealt with any
non-farm dwellings or

2910
01:48:39,839 --> 01:48:42,975
land divisions since
your last meeting

2911
01:48:42,975 --> 01:48:44,129
at one was sent back,

2912
01:48:44,129 --> 01:48:45,765
but there's not
been a decision

2913
01:48:45,765 --> 01:48:47,130
where you can review it.

2914
01:48:47,130 --> 01:48:49,580
A bit anxious about that,

2915
01:48:49,580 --> 01:48:50,660
are wondering if there's a

2916
01:48:50,660 --> 01:48:51,755
waiting in the wings.

2917
01:48:51,755 --> 01:48:53,180
And all you can do is

2918
01:48:53,180 --> 01:48:55,699
continue to watch
and brands reporting

2919
01:48:55,699 --> 01:48:58,174
to you and is watching
and we urge you to

2920
01:48:58,174 --> 01:49:00,649
be vigilant and getting

2921
01:49:00,649 --> 01:49:03,034
reports from him
at each meeting.

2922
01:49:03,034 --> 01:49:05,179
I'm going to skip
over the issue of

2923
01:49:05,179 --> 01:49:07,204
selling the units
from Riverside ranch.

2924
01:49:07,204 --> 01:49:08,510
I'm Brent has addressed

2925
01:49:08,510 --> 01:49:12,439
that in terms of what
DLC D has agreed to do,

2926
01:49:12,439 --> 01:49:15,034
the monthly or

2927
01:49:15,034 --> 01:49:17,719
each meeting report
is occurring.

2928
01:49:17,719 --> 01:49:19,055
Brand is doing that now.

2929
01:49:19,055 --> 01:49:21,620
That's great. His
report is accurate.

2930
01:49:21,620 --> 01:49:23,479
What has not begun

2931
01:49:23,479 --> 01:49:25,310
that I would
encourage you to

2932
01:49:25,310 --> 01:49:26,960
encourage your staff to

2933
01:49:26,960 --> 01:49:29,569
do is to start developing
the program to

2934
01:49:29,569 --> 01:49:31,409
assist the
county improving

2935
01:49:31,409 --> 01:49:32,490
its land-use decisions and

2936
01:49:32,490 --> 01:49:34,380
local review process.

2937
01:49:34,380 --> 01:49:36,509
This Memorandum of
Understanding does not

2938
01:49:36,509 --> 01:49:37,709
include a provision that

2939
01:49:37,709 --> 01:49:39,059
I had asked for last time,

2940
01:49:39,059 --> 01:49:40,529
which is to clarify that

2941
01:49:40,529 --> 01:49:42,269
your legal counsel
be involved.

2942
01:49:42,269 --> 01:49:43,290
And I'm going to
tell you why.

2943
01:49:43,290 --> 01:49:44,834
I think that's important.

2944
01:49:44,834 --> 01:49:47,354
In my opinion. Right now.

2945
01:49:47,354 --> 01:49:48,870
You could not approve or

2946
01:49:48,870 --> 01:49:50,234
the county could
not approve

2947
01:49:50,234 --> 01:49:53,010
one single non-farm
dwelling and

2948
01:49:53,010 --> 01:49:56,145
the Riverside ranch
subdivision. Why is that?

2949
01:49:56,145 --> 01:49:58,709
Because the stability
analysis says you

2950
01:49:58,709 --> 01:50:01,815
have to do a build-out
analysis and

2951
01:50:01,815 --> 01:50:03,240
analyze what
the cumulative

2952
01:50:03,240 --> 01:50:04,634
impact of improving

2953
01:50:04,634 --> 01:50:06,720
that and all the other
non-farm dwellings

2954
01:50:06,720 --> 01:50:08,054
that could be
approved there.

2955
01:50:08,054 --> 01:50:09,269
Then you have to see if

2956
01:50:09,269 --> 01:50:10,499
all those approvals

2957
01:50:10,499 --> 01:50:12,855
would destabilise
the area?

2958
01:50:12,855 --> 01:50:14,505
Yes, it would.

2959
01:50:14,505 --> 01:50:15,854
Under the most
basic tests,

2960
01:50:15,854 --> 01:50:18,180
which has conversion
of the area from

2961
01:50:18,180 --> 01:50:19,409
predominantly agricultural

2962
01:50:19,409 --> 01:50:20,864
to predominantly
residential,

2963
01:50:20,864 --> 01:50:22,499
that would
certainly occur.

2964
01:50:22,499 --> 01:50:24,900
And even on less
sinuous test,

2965
01:50:24,900 --> 01:50:26,339
certainly destabilizing.

2966
01:50:26,339 --> 01:50:27,420
So I don't think that one

2967
01:50:27,420 --> 01:50:29,145
single house can
be approved.

2968
01:50:29,145 --> 01:50:31,965
I am not sure that

2969
01:50:31,965 --> 01:50:33,660
that message has been

2970
01:50:33,660 --> 01:50:35,550
communicated to
Crook County.

2971
01:50:35,550 --> 01:50:36,930
I am not entirely

2972
01:50:36,930 --> 01:50:38,399
sure that your staff
agrees with it.

2973
01:50:38,399 --> 01:50:39,809
I have talked
with Celeste,

2974
01:50:39,809 --> 01:50:41,520
I think that some clarity

2975
01:50:41,520 --> 01:50:43,140
and agreement
about what does

2976
01:50:43,140 --> 01:50:45,089
this standard really
mean and what would

2977
01:50:45,089 --> 01:50:47,444
it mean if these dwellings
were challenged?

2978
01:50:47,444 --> 01:50:49,305
Needs to be
communicated very

2979
01:50:49,305 --> 01:50:52,030
clearly to the county.

2980
01:50:53,540 --> 01:50:56,640
In addition,
the third item,

2981
01:50:56,640 --> 01:50:57,810
providing technical
assistance to

2982
01:50:57,810 --> 01:50:59,819
the county for resolution
of conflict between

2983
01:50:59,819 --> 01:51:01,980
future development of
Riverside ranch and

2984
01:51:01,980 --> 01:51:03,120
the protection
of adjacent and

2985
01:51:03,120 --> 01:51:05,145
they're nearby
ranch lands.

2986
01:51:05,145 --> 01:51:07,290
I think that part of
this resolution of

2987
01:51:07,290 --> 01:51:08,399
the conflict needs to be

2988
01:51:08,399 --> 01:51:10,289
a clear understanding
of the legality.

2989
01:51:10,289 --> 01:51:11,850
And there's another twist.

2990
01:51:11,850 --> 01:51:13,230
A lot of records,
dwellings are

2991
01:51:13,230 --> 01:51:14,955
another way that
you can get houses.

2992
01:51:14,955 --> 01:51:16,229
And we don't know
at this point,

2993
01:51:16,229 --> 01:51:18,209
I don't think your
staff knows at

2994
01:51:18,209 --> 01:51:19,320
this point how
many lots of

2995
01:51:19,320 --> 01:51:20,835
record houses
could be approved.

2996
01:51:20,835 --> 01:51:21,929
So we're not just talking

2997
01:51:21,929 --> 01:51:23,279
about non-pharm dwellings.

2998
01:51:23,279 --> 01:51:24,540
Some build-out
may be able to

2999
01:51:24,540 --> 01:51:27,434
do a lot of
record analysis.

3000
01:51:27,434 --> 01:51:29,280
I think that you
need to spend

3001
01:51:29,280 --> 01:51:31,155
a lot of time or
direct your staff

3002
01:51:31,155 --> 01:51:34,575
looking into the actual
underlying legality

3003
01:51:34,575 --> 01:51:36,465
of the Riverside
ranch subdivision.

3004
01:51:36,465 --> 01:51:39,180
We know that Ron has
a big pile of stuff.

3005
01:51:39,180 --> 01:51:40,680
He's been looking
through it. I imagine at

3006
01:51:40,680 --> 01:51:42,614
this point he's
somewhat exhausted.

3007
01:51:42,614 --> 01:51:45,279
We need to cheer him on

3008
01:51:46,370 --> 01:51:49,830
because there is a lot

3009
01:51:49,830 --> 01:51:51,674
of damage could occur
and we're not sure,

3010
01:51:51,674 --> 01:51:53,670
and it's it's quite
questionable.

3011
01:51:53,670 --> 01:51:54,914
There are some
questions raised.

3012
01:51:54,914 --> 01:51:56,880
They need to be pursued.

3013
01:51:56,880 --> 01:51:58,230
I don't know if that's too

3014
01:51:58,230 --> 01:51:59,580
expensive of a thing for

3015
01:51:59,580 --> 01:52:00,824
you to also ask your

3016
01:52:00,824 --> 01:52:02,040
legal counsel to
get involved,

3017
01:52:02,040 --> 01:52:03,449
but I think Ron
needs to keep

3018
01:52:03,449 --> 01:52:07,800
keep pursuing that that
whole subdivision.

3019
01:52:07,800 --> 01:52:11,379
Suspect in terms
of its legality.

3020
01:52:12,260 --> 01:52:14,354
Just want to
remind you that

3021
01:52:14,354 --> 01:52:15,449
there's a lot of
issues that are still

3022
01:52:15,449 --> 01:52:16,889
kind of hanging
out in Cook County

3023
01:52:16,889 --> 01:52:19,139
that you need to
be conscious.

3024
01:52:19,139 --> 01:52:21,480
The Pell Butte rezoning is

3025
01:52:21,480 --> 01:52:23,475
still just sort of
hanging out there.

3026
01:52:23,475 --> 01:52:25,515
Where is that? What's
going on with that?

3027
01:52:25,515 --> 01:52:27,940
What is your
involvement in that?

3028
01:52:27,940 --> 01:52:31,120
Let's move forward.

3029
01:52:31,730 --> 01:52:37,169
There hasn't that the
Dormant indecision

3030
01:52:37,169 --> 01:52:40,124
has happened which is
which run with Ashley,

3031
01:52:40,124 --> 01:52:41,490
Which Dick mentioned
in his report,

3032
01:52:41,490 --> 01:52:42,975
Brian had reported on it.

3033
01:52:42,975 --> 01:52:44,789
I want you to be
clear that that

3034
01:52:44,789 --> 01:52:46,260
is not a response

3035
01:52:46,260 --> 01:52:47,549
to all non-farm dwelling

3036
01:52:47,549 --> 01:52:49,259
and land division issues.

3037
01:52:49,259 --> 01:52:50,429
That says that you can't

3038
01:52:50,429 --> 01:52:51,899
further divide a parcel

3039
01:52:51,899 --> 01:52:53,684
that's smaller

3040
01:52:53,684 --> 01:52:55,859
than the minimum parcel
size for the area.

3041
01:52:55,859 --> 01:52:57,509
One of the big
problems we're seeing

3042
01:52:57,509 --> 01:52:59,310
in Cook County is actually

3043
01:52:59,310 --> 01:53:00,944
the division of
large parcels

3044
01:53:00,944 --> 01:53:02,850
into a series of
small parcels,

3045
01:53:02,850 --> 01:53:04,200
if 160 acre range of

3046
01:53:04,200 --> 01:53:05,910
50 acre parcels
and larger.

3047
01:53:05,910 --> 01:53:08,804
So Durbin, it isn't
a panacea either,

3048
01:53:08,804 --> 01:53:10,349
and it may not be
exactly the way

3049
01:53:10,349 --> 01:53:11,985
we all thought
things should go.

3050
01:53:11,985 --> 01:53:13,724
It's there, but
it's not really,

3051
01:53:13,724 --> 01:53:15,645
it doesn't answer
all the problems.

3052
01:53:15,645 --> 01:53:17,880
So I'm finally
I would like

3053
01:53:17,880 --> 01:53:21,675
to address your
upcoming rulemaking.

3054
01:53:21,675 --> 01:53:22,919
I didn't do it in
public hearings.

3055
01:53:22,919 --> 01:53:23,759
I wasn't quite really

3056
01:53:23,759 --> 01:53:25,119
sure where you're going.

3057
01:53:25,119 --> 01:53:26,659
Um, I do think

3058
01:53:26,659 --> 01:53:28,249
that the kinds of issues
we're seeing with

3059
01:53:28,249 --> 01:53:29,930
non-farm dwellings and
land divisions and

3060
01:53:29,930 --> 01:53:32,210
Cook County are not
limited to Crick County.

3061
01:53:32,210 --> 01:53:33,410
I do hope that you

3062
01:53:33,410 --> 01:53:36,454
will notice your
rule-making broad

3063
01:53:36,454 --> 01:53:37,880
enough so that
you can at least

3064
01:53:37,880 --> 01:53:39,980
consider optional
sufficient to

3065
01:53:39,980 --> 01:53:41,510
non-pharm dwellings?
I'm not sure.

3066
01:53:41,510 --> 01:53:42,949
I don't think your
staff is well sure

3067
01:53:42,949 --> 01:53:44,569
at this point or has made

3068
01:53:44,569 --> 01:53:46,310
a decision about
what items

3069
01:53:46,310 --> 01:53:48,409
they will recommend
you to consider.

3070
01:53:48,409 --> 01:53:49,880
I certainly hope
that you'll leave

3071
01:53:49,880 --> 01:53:50,990
non-farm dwellings
and land

3072
01:53:50,990 --> 01:53:53,240
divisions for
consideration.

3073
01:53:53,240 --> 01:53:55,069
In addition, I'd
hope that you would

3074
01:53:55,069 --> 01:53:56,674
leave a lot of
record dwellings

3075
01:53:56,674 --> 01:53:58,429
in consideration
in light of

3076
01:53:58,429 --> 01:54:00,260
your recent
court case loss.

3077
01:54:00,260 --> 01:54:02,134
That's something that
you can address.

3078
01:54:02,134 --> 01:54:03,230
I'll set a lot of record.

3079
01:54:03,230 --> 01:54:05,075
Dwellings are at issue
and Crick counting

3080
01:54:05,075 --> 01:54:07,555
other places, there
may be fixed.

3081
01:54:07,555 --> 01:54:09,060
And do that are consistent

3082
01:54:09,060 --> 01:54:10,244
with legislative intent?

3083
01:54:10,244 --> 01:54:11,309
We're not going
to ask you to

3084
01:54:11,309 --> 01:54:12,359
buck the legislature.

3085
01:54:12,359 --> 01:54:14,370
It's quite clear they
wanted these things,

3086
01:54:14,370 --> 01:54:17,535
but to implement
the intent

3087
01:54:17,535 --> 01:54:18,810
that we had understood
and we think

3088
01:54:18,810 --> 01:54:20,310
that you had understood of

3089
01:54:20,310 --> 01:54:22,154
one dwelling
when dream home

3090
01:54:22,154 --> 01:54:24,060
per track or family member

3091
01:54:24,060 --> 01:54:26,775
has been thwarted by
several court cases.

3092
01:54:26,775 --> 01:54:28,650
That's all of my comments.

3093
01:54:28,650 --> 01:54:29,999
Thank you very much.

3094
01:54:29,999 --> 01:54:31,769
Just on that last point,

3095
01:54:31,769 --> 01:54:34,380
will R Notice be

3096
01:54:34,380 --> 01:54:35,984
broad enough to
cover those issues

3097
01:54:35,984 --> 01:54:37,664
for the goal three? Yes.

3098
01:54:37,664 --> 01:54:39,220
Okay.

3099
01:54:40,940 --> 01:54:43,450
Okay.

3100
01:54:45,380 --> 01:54:47,799
Thank you.

3101
01:54:50,000 --> 01:54:52,829
Maybe I'm grasping,
but I noticed

3102
01:54:52,829 --> 01:54:58,139
a slight hint of
optimism or support,

3103
01:54:58,139 --> 01:54:59,400
at least for the
approach we're

3104
01:54:59,400 --> 01:55:03,390
taking in your comments

3105
01:55:03,390 --> 01:55:05,909
and that you
didn't say again,

3106
01:55:05,909 --> 01:55:06,840
please adopt

3107
01:55:06,840 --> 01:55:08,399
the enforcement
order right away.

3108
01:55:08,399 --> 01:55:11,320
I think it's resignation.

3109
01:55:13,190 --> 01:55:14,849
Resignation.

3110
01:55:14,849 --> 01:55:16,485
You have the same
kind of know.

3111
01:55:16,485 --> 01:55:17,789
How many times do you hit

3112
01:55:17,789 --> 01:55:18,839
your head against a wall,

3113
01:55:18,839 --> 01:55:21,075
right. Thank you.

3114
01:55:21,075 --> 01:55:22,510
Okay.

3115
01:55:22,580 --> 01:55:24,600
One thing that
does puzzle me

3116
01:55:24,600 --> 01:55:25,859
is this it has
been six weeks.

3117
01:55:25,859 --> 01:55:26,129
This is

3118
01:55:26,129 --> 01:55:28,469
a two-page memorandum
of understanding.

3119
01:55:28,469 --> 01:55:31,020
They raise this
whole issue about

3120
01:55:31,020 --> 01:55:33,419
being able to
selling lot issue.

3121
01:55:33,419 --> 01:55:35,130
When they were here
for six weeks ago,

3122
01:55:35,130 --> 01:55:36,555
they raised us
that they thought

3123
01:55:36,555 --> 01:55:38,520
we haven't needed
to modify that.

3124
01:55:38,520 --> 01:55:43,305
Why why six weeks to get

3125
01:55:43,305 --> 01:55:45,950
a two-page MOU signed

3126
01:55:45,950 --> 01:55:48,869
it evidence of their
dragging their feet.

3127
01:55:48,869 --> 01:55:50,099
And that's my
concern, would

3128
01:55:50,099 --> 01:55:53,070
be Mr.

3129
01:55:53,070 --> 01:55:55,304
Chairman Ron Lieber
for the department.

3130
01:55:55,304 --> 01:55:58,619
I don't believe so that
it's that evidence.

3131
01:55:58,619 --> 01:56:00,764
I think they've
just been busy with

3132
01:56:00,764 --> 01:56:02,279
getting the ordinance

3133
01:56:02,279 --> 01:56:04,754
adopted into the process,

3134
01:56:04,754 --> 01:56:08,129
dealing with the impact of

3135
01:56:08,129 --> 01:56:09,959
the door of an
end case and

3136
01:56:09,959 --> 01:56:12,300
a number of things that
rent will report on.

3137
01:56:12,300 --> 01:56:14,070
It went to the
Planning Commission

3138
01:56:14,070 --> 01:56:16,604
yesterday, Wednesday,

3139
01:56:16,604 --> 01:56:19,980
and just the fact
that the county

3140
01:56:19,980 --> 01:56:20,849
council and the planning

3141
01:56:20,849 --> 01:56:21,720
director or one and the

3142
01:56:21,720 --> 01:56:23,849
same and we had the
holidays alright.

3143
01:56:23,849 --> 01:56:27,089
Intervening. So once they

3144
01:56:27,089 --> 01:56:30,000
got back to us with
a couple of things,

3145
01:56:30,000 --> 01:56:31,259
we talked and we sent

3146
01:56:31,259 --> 01:56:32,610
something back on the MOU.

3147
01:56:32,610 --> 01:56:33,870
So we're expecting to wrap

3148
01:56:33,870 --> 01:56:36,660
that up very quickly.

3149
01:56:36,660 --> 01:56:40,664
I would add on the
Riverside ranch issue,

3150
01:56:40,664 --> 01:56:42,570
we will be getting
back to that.

3151
01:56:42,570 --> 01:56:44,730
I had a brief
conversation with Peter,

3152
01:56:44,730 --> 01:56:46,859
Sean our earlier
in the week

3153
01:56:46,859 --> 01:56:49,154
that we needed now
to move toward

3154
01:56:49,154 --> 01:56:51,570
developing this
program of figure

3155
01:56:51,570 --> 01:56:53,850
out what the issues
are that need to

3156
01:56:53,850 --> 01:56:55,439
be resolved out there

3157
01:56:55,439 --> 01:56:59,100
and agreed that that
was the next step.

3158
01:56:59,100 --> 01:57:00,209
We need to work on that.

3159
01:57:00,209 --> 01:57:02,100
And I also let them know

3160
01:57:02,100 --> 01:57:04,305
my concerns that
whether it's

3161
01:57:04,305 --> 01:57:06,239
a non-farm
dwelling proposal

3162
01:57:06,239 --> 01:57:07,530
out there or a lot of

3163
01:57:07,530 --> 01:57:09,809
record question
that before

3164
01:57:09,809 --> 01:57:11,279
any of that can
move forward,

3165
01:57:11,279 --> 01:57:13,650
There's some significant
issues about

3166
01:57:13,650 --> 01:57:17,069
the legality of those
parcels and even

3167
01:57:17,069 --> 01:57:19,710
determining when
the creation date

3168
01:57:19,710 --> 01:57:20,970
was for some of them is

3169
01:57:20,970 --> 01:57:24,929
gonna be a very
time-consuming process.

3170
01:57:24,929 --> 01:57:26,369
So he kind of

3171
01:57:26,369 --> 01:57:28,049
groaned a little
bit on the phone,

3172
01:57:28,049 --> 01:57:29,369
but I think he

3173
01:57:29,369 --> 01:57:32,910
recognizes that
problem because I gave

3174
01:57:32,910 --> 01:57:35,220
him a whole stack of
stuff that I had dug up

3175
01:57:35,220 --> 01:57:39,099
and he's aware that
it's complicated.

3176
01:57:40,700 --> 01:57:44,609
Are you guys as

3177
01:57:44,609 --> 01:57:45,719
the uncertainty of

3178
01:57:45,719 --> 01:57:49,170
new requirements
and this process

3179
01:57:49,170 --> 01:57:51,239
and the appeals that
have been filed and

3180
01:57:51,239 --> 01:57:55,364
all this dust in the air

3181
01:57:55,364 --> 01:57:57,809
slowed down the inflow

3182
01:57:57,809 --> 01:57:59,550
of applications
or the flow

3183
01:57:59,550 --> 01:58:01,229
of applications to
the department are

3184
01:58:01,229 --> 01:58:03,060
people actually stepping
back and saying,

3185
01:58:03,060 --> 01:58:04,440
let's let
everything settle

3186
01:58:04,440 --> 01:58:05,820
out before we
start applying,

3187
01:58:05,820 --> 01:58:07,530
or is it the opposite
of what we've seen,

3188
01:58:07,530 --> 01:58:08,639
an increase or decrease?

3189
01:58:08,639 --> 01:58:10,109
We're not seeing neither.

3190
01:58:10,109 --> 01:58:11,954
It's about staying
about the same.

3191
01:58:11,954 --> 01:58:13,470
They're hearing about for

3192
01:58:13,470 --> 01:58:14,520
the Planning
Commission's hearing

3193
01:58:14,520 --> 01:58:17,310
about for applications
every two weeks,

3194
01:58:17,310 --> 01:58:19,380
they meet twice
a month, and

3195
01:58:19,380 --> 01:58:21,074
that hasn't changed.

3196
01:58:21,074 --> 01:58:23,879
There are some people
that have backed away.

3197
01:58:23,879 --> 01:58:24,959
There were other
people that

3198
01:58:24,959 --> 01:58:27,014
have had backed
away that came

3199
01:58:27,014 --> 01:58:29,040
ask their application
to be brought

3200
01:58:29,040 --> 01:58:30,360
back before the
Planning Commission

3201
01:58:30,360 --> 01:58:31,110
at the last meeting.

3202
01:58:31,110 --> 01:58:32,925
So it's a combination,

3203
01:58:32,925 --> 01:58:34,890
but no work has not slowed

3204
01:58:34,890 --> 01:58:36,899
down but not nor
has it increased.

3205
01:58:36,899 --> 01:58:39,239
There's not yet a
big rush to get

3206
01:58:39,239 --> 01:58:42,854
in because it's
just not an issue.

3207
01:58:42,854 --> 01:58:44,610
There's been a
change in the

3208
01:58:44,610 --> 01:58:45,840
personnel on
the commission.

3209
01:58:45,840 --> 01:58:47,684
I know that as I recall.

3210
01:58:47,684 --> 01:58:49,079
As that change

3211
01:58:49,079 --> 01:58:50,865
there, the planning
permission, Yes.

3212
01:58:50,865 --> 01:58:51,840
I remember asking you

3213
01:58:51,840 --> 01:58:53,310
approvals in here that I

3214
01:58:53,310 --> 01:58:54,539
would have assumed
might've been

3215
01:58:54,539 --> 01:58:56,339
denials three months ago.

3216
01:58:56,339 --> 01:58:57,645
Okay. Yes.

3217
01:58:57,645 --> 01:58:59,100
Well, I denials.

3218
01:58:59,100 --> 01:59:00,764
It would have been
approvals. I think.

3219
01:59:00,764 --> 01:59:01,979
A better way to put it,

3220
01:59:01,979 --> 01:59:03,390
the Planning Commission
has changed in

3221
01:59:03,390 --> 01:59:04,590
the past 15 months

3222
01:59:04,590 --> 01:59:07,199
dramatically the
decisions they're making.

3223
01:59:07,199 --> 01:59:08,820
In fact, I will point
out when we get to

3224
01:59:08,820 --> 01:59:11,264
talking about what they
did last Wednesday,

3225
01:59:11,264 --> 01:59:14,505
very major changes and

3226
01:59:14,505 --> 01:59:16,440
in a very much the
right direction

3227
01:59:16,440 --> 01:59:18,014
of Planning
Commission's decision.

3228
01:59:18,014 --> 01:59:20,159
Their position is that

3229
01:59:20,159 --> 01:59:22,560
we may not always
agree with the state,

3230
01:59:22,560 --> 01:59:23,834
but if it's NR ordinance

3231
01:59:23,834 --> 01:59:25,110
or if it's in state law,

3232
01:59:25,110 --> 01:59:26,730
we must obey that.

3233
01:59:26,730 --> 01:59:28,050
And the problem where

3234
01:59:28,050 --> 01:59:29,099
we've had in the past is

3235
01:59:29,099 --> 01:59:30,330
the County Board
of Commissioners

3236
01:59:30,330 --> 01:59:31,334
with in this case,

3237
01:59:31,334 --> 01:59:33,059
the Cook County Court has

3238
01:59:33,059 --> 01:59:34,890
gone more to what we

3239
01:59:34,890 --> 01:59:36,944
feel and that's what
got us into this issue.

3240
01:59:36,944 --> 01:59:38,280
But the Planning
Commission over

3241
01:59:38,280 --> 01:59:39,719
the past 15
months has been

3242
01:59:39,719 --> 01:59:41,340
making some very
good decisions

3243
01:59:41,340 --> 01:59:42,989
and I'll talk about
that in a second.

3244
01:59:42,989 --> 01:59:44,130
Are they stalling?

3245
01:59:44,130 --> 01:59:45,930
They're controversial
decisions by putting

3246
01:59:45,930 --> 01:59:47,400
all these extensions
at the report

3247
01:59:47,400 --> 01:59:49,809
speaks about in I mean,

3248
01:59:50,090 --> 01:59:52,229
I don't think the
Planning Commission

3249
01:59:52,229 --> 01:59:53,580
normally when
they extend one,

3250
01:59:53,580 --> 01:59:54,599
is that the requests of

3251
01:59:54,599 --> 01:59:56,130
an applicant who
sees he's not gonna

3252
01:59:56,130 --> 01:59:57,300
get approval and he

3253
01:59:57,300 --> 01:59:59,220
backs up and gets
an extension.

3254
01:59:59,220 --> 02:00:00,959
My concern is that

3255
02:00:00,959 --> 02:00:02,879
the county court has

3256
02:00:02,879 --> 02:00:04,079
been delaying
some of those,

3257
02:00:04,079 --> 02:00:05,399
hoping that maybe we would

3258
02:00:05,399 --> 02:00:06,780
go away and things
would change,

3259
02:00:06,780 --> 02:00:08,114
that's not going
to happen.

3260
02:00:08,114 --> 02:00:10,739
And there are some major
decisions coming to

3261
02:00:10,739 --> 02:00:11,790
the county court in

3262
02:00:11,790 --> 02:00:12,749
the next two months that

3263
02:00:12,749 --> 02:00:13,890
they're going to
have to deal with.

3264
02:00:13,890 --> 02:00:15,179
And that's where we're

3265
02:00:15,179 --> 02:00:16,530
going to see if there's

3266
02:00:16,530 --> 02:00:17,939
a change in the
approach because

3267
02:00:17,939 --> 02:00:19,934
there was one at
the last meeting,

3268
02:00:19,934 --> 02:00:21,809
the Planning Commission
last Wednesday,

3269
02:00:21,809 --> 02:00:22,890
which again was tabled

3270
02:00:22,890 --> 02:00:24,390
at the request of
the applicant,

3271
02:00:24,390 --> 02:00:27,614
war or new information
that was brought.

3272
02:00:27,614 --> 02:00:29,010
But clearly, if

3273
02:00:29,010 --> 02:00:30,659
the Planning Commission
denies that one,

3274
02:00:30,659 --> 02:00:32,234
it will go up on appeal.

3275
02:00:32,234 --> 02:00:34,199
And it will be very
interesting to see what

3276
02:00:34,199 --> 02:00:35,189
the county court does with

3277
02:00:35,189 --> 02:00:36,525
those kind of
applications.

3278
02:00:36,525 --> 02:00:38,099
But as opposed
to continuous

3279
02:00:38,099 --> 02:00:39,525
is which you're
talking about.

3280
02:00:39,525 --> 02:00:40,320
Don't ever call

3281
02:00:40,320 --> 02:00:41,639
your report
written mentioning

3282
02:00:41,639 --> 02:00:44,369
these extensions of
prior approvals.

3283
02:00:44,369 --> 02:00:46,500
People are showing
up and asking for

3284
02:00:46,500 --> 02:00:48,479
this used to be in
all Peter says,

3285
02:00:48,479 --> 02:00:50,490
and now you're used to

3286
02:00:50,490 --> 02:00:51,960
that cognition was
actually people

3287
02:00:51,960 --> 02:00:53,565
who got a permit
and never built.

3288
02:00:53,565 --> 02:00:55,454
Now there's a new
window, right?

3289
02:00:55,454 --> 02:00:57,284
We've had one of those.

3290
02:00:57,284 --> 02:00:59,340
Again at the last
Wednesday meeting.

3291
02:00:59,340 --> 02:01:00,630
The Planning
Commission work

3292
02:01:00,630 --> 02:01:01,499
through that and made

3293
02:01:01,499 --> 02:01:03,030
the determination
that the applicant

3294
02:01:03,030 --> 02:01:04,200
had done so sad,

3295
02:01:04,200 --> 02:01:06,374
substantial development,

3296
02:01:06,374 --> 02:01:07,815
and that they felt
that the planning

3297
02:01:07,815 --> 02:01:09,375
the planning
department was aired.

3298
02:01:09,375 --> 02:01:11,130
But the planning
department has put in

3299
02:01:11,130 --> 02:01:13,049
a very good
application process.

3300
02:01:13,049 --> 02:01:15,299
They are now putting
on every application

3301
02:01:15,299 --> 02:01:16,679
you have one year.

3302
02:01:16,679 --> 02:01:18,630
This conditional use only

3303
02:01:18,630 --> 02:01:20,565
applies for one-year
rule allows

3304
02:01:20,565 --> 02:01:22,890
to Clark County only

3305
02:01:22,890 --> 02:01:24,420
has a one-year extension.

3306
02:01:24,420 --> 02:01:25,634
What intrigued me was your

3307
02:01:25,634 --> 02:01:26,940
sentence in the
department's view,

3308
02:01:26,940 --> 02:01:29,129
six of these extensions
through approvals

3309
02:01:29,129 --> 02:01:30,450
had expired prior to

3310
02:01:30,450 --> 02:01:31,619
the request for
an extension.

3311
02:01:31,619 --> 02:01:33,284
That I guess my
question was,

3312
02:01:33,284 --> 02:01:34,619
are they being forced

3313
02:01:34,619 --> 02:01:35,760
in those cases in
which there were

3314
02:01:35,760 --> 02:01:38,025
seven here in the
last month or two,

3315
02:01:38,025 --> 02:01:39,689
aren't they being
forced to come

3316
02:01:39,689 --> 02:01:41,460
in now with a new
application or

3317
02:01:41,460 --> 02:01:43,290
are they taking extensions

3318
02:01:43,290 --> 02:01:43,979
of old ones if they've

3319
02:01:43,979 --> 02:01:47,220
expired or the history
while they're there,

3320
02:01:47,220 --> 02:01:48,809
referring to the report

3321
02:01:48,809 --> 02:01:49,709
that was actually back in

3322
02:01:49,709 --> 02:01:51,120
December which
was reporting

3323
02:01:51,120 --> 02:01:52,349
on things back
in November.

3324
02:01:52,349 --> 02:01:55,019
There had been maybe
at that point,

3325
02:01:55,019 --> 02:01:56,550
some extensions
they were dealing

3326
02:01:56,550 --> 02:01:59,039
with that technically had

3327
02:01:59,039 --> 02:02:02,160
expired because the county

3328
02:02:02,160 --> 02:02:03,179
had not been giving

3329
02:02:03,179 --> 02:02:05,264
notification
to people that

3330
02:02:05,264 --> 02:02:07,740
they had to apply
before the exploration,

3331
02:02:07,740 --> 02:02:10,170
and it was just a very
informal process.

3332
02:02:10,170 --> 02:02:12,180
So at this point
we feel that has

3333
02:02:12,180 --> 02:02:14,490
stopped and
they formalized

3334
02:02:14,490 --> 02:02:15,300
process and they're

3335
02:02:15,300 --> 02:02:16,560
giving the
appropriate notice.

3336
02:02:16,560 --> 02:02:17,939
So I don t think we're

3337
02:02:17,939 --> 02:02:21,375
seeing now anybody
wandering in saying,

3338
02:02:21,375 --> 02:02:23,339
Oh, I forgot in getting

3339
02:02:23,339 --> 02:02:26,469
an extension? That
is not evident.

3340
02:02:29,000 --> 02:02:32,759
Yes. To two things.

3341
02:02:32,759 --> 02:02:35,939
The ordinance was adopted

3342
02:02:35,939 --> 02:02:38,669
by the by the Cook
County Court last week.

3343
02:02:38,669 --> 02:02:40,049
We have a signed copy

3344
02:02:40,049 --> 02:02:41,550
of that ordinance
revisions.

3345
02:02:41,550 --> 02:02:43,215
This is the
non-pharm ordinance.

3346
02:02:43,215 --> 02:02:45,539
Non-farm wardens,
very minor changes

3347
02:02:45,539 --> 02:02:48,464
to what you have
in your packets.

3348
02:02:48,464 --> 02:02:52,020
Just an ordinance
number was wrong

3349
02:02:52,020 --> 02:02:54,029
and another minor
change that they

3350
02:02:54,029 --> 02:02:54,779
agreed with and we

3351
02:02:54,779 --> 02:02:56,069
felt that needed
to be made.

3352
02:02:56,069 --> 02:02:57,300
So they have adopted

3353
02:02:57,300 --> 02:02:58,470
that ordinance and we have

3354
02:02:58,470 --> 02:03:00,660
a signed copy of
that ordinance.

3355
02:03:00,660 --> 02:03:03,930
With review of
non-pharm dwellings.

3356
02:03:03,930 --> 02:03:05,564
Since your last meeting,

3357
02:03:05,564 --> 02:03:07,784
there has been a
court decision

3358
02:03:07,784 --> 02:03:11,295
of door vein versus
Cook County.

3359
02:03:11,295 --> 02:03:13,349
We've talked
about that back

3360
02:03:13,349 --> 02:03:14,415
where I mentioned that.

3361
02:03:14,415 --> 02:03:17,249
Basically what that
says is you cannot

3362
02:03:17,249 --> 02:03:20,474
further divide a
substandard parcel in

3363
02:03:20,474 --> 02:03:23,490
the farm use zone
that is going to

3364
02:03:23,490 --> 02:03:25,905
have until and
four-year information

3365
02:03:25,905 --> 02:03:27,165
that's also on appeal.

3366
02:03:27,165 --> 02:03:28,409
The court counties
appealing

3367
02:03:28,409 --> 02:03:30,959
that to the Oregon
Court of Appeals.

3368
02:03:30,959 --> 02:03:33,389
Basically what
that decision

3369
02:03:33,389 --> 02:03:34,785
says that if you have

3370
02:03:34,785 --> 02:03:36,945
a parcel less
than 80 acres

3371
02:03:36,945 --> 02:03:39,044
in size and any
of you zone,

3372
02:03:39,044 --> 02:03:41,280
you cannot further
divide that parcel.

3373
02:03:41,280 --> 02:03:42,510
That is what
has been one of

3374
02:03:42,510 --> 02:03:44,264
the major things
in Cook County.

3375
02:03:44,264 --> 02:03:46,349
Somebody coming in
with a 40 acre parcel

3376
02:03:46,349 --> 02:03:47,760
that they say it
and it's not it's

3377
02:03:47,760 --> 02:03:49,289
a non-farm parcel and

3378
02:03:49,289 --> 02:03:51,465
break it into 33 parcels.

3379
02:03:51,465 --> 02:03:52,679
So while I agree,

3380
02:03:52,679 --> 02:03:54,120
that's not the only issue,

3381
02:03:54,120 --> 02:03:55,410
I agree with Boyer totally

3382
02:03:55,410 --> 02:03:57,089
that that's not
the only issue.

3383
02:03:57,089 --> 02:04:00,689
That clearly that
is a major one

3384
02:04:00,689 --> 02:04:02,429
until when until we

3385
02:04:02,429 --> 02:04:03,600
see what the
Court of Appeals

3386
02:04:03,600 --> 02:04:04,470
does with the decision.

3387
02:04:04,470 --> 02:04:05,729
But right now, we're

3388
02:04:05,729 --> 02:04:06,900
implementing it
as the department

3389
02:04:06,900 --> 02:04:07,709
involved in this one.

3390
02:04:07,709 --> 02:04:12,255
The real RBI. We're
not on this one.

3391
02:04:12,255 --> 02:04:14,279
We don't get the brief
and we're not going

3392
02:04:14,279 --> 02:04:15,330
to intervene as
we have the right

3393
02:04:15,330 --> 02:04:22,979
to the non-pharm division,

3394
02:04:22,979 --> 02:04:25,364
the Whopper division,
is that irrigated land?

3395
02:04:25,364 --> 02:04:27,480
Yes. Well well,

3396
02:04:27,480 --> 02:04:29,250
the the area which
he's trying to break

3397
02:04:29,250 --> 02:04:33,929
off is not it's
not irrigated.

3398
02:04:33,929 --> 02:04:35,685
He removed the
water rights

3399
02:04:35,685 --> 02:04:37,964
within the
Irrigation District.

3400
02:04:37,964 --> 02:04:38,940
He removed

3401
02:04:38,940 --> 02:04:40,349
the water rights
from the property,

3402
02:04:40,349 --> 02:04:42,315
transferred to other
parts of his property.

3403
02:04:42,315 --> 02:04:43,829
And technically,

3404
02:04:43,829 --> 02:04:46,979
he says it's not
irrigated firmly.

3405
02:04:46,979 --> 02:04:48,060
We believe it's a part

3406
02:04:48,060 --> 02:04:49,830
of an agricultural
operation,

3407
02:04:49,830 --> 02:04:51,600
and we've been battling

3408
02:04:51,600 --> 02:04:53,830
with that one
for a long time.

3409
02:04:54,260 --> 02:04:56,219
To me, that just shows

3410
02:04:56,219 --> 02:04:57,509
the county courts
reluctance

3411
02:04:57,509 --> 02:04:58,589
to follow the rules.

3412
02:04:58,589 --> 02:05:00,720
They I mean, they
don't want to say no,

3413
02:05:00,720 --> 02:05:02,220
they just send it back
to the Commission

3414
02:05:02,220 --> 02:05:03,720
and say study
study it further.

3415
02:05:03,720 --> 02:05:05,385
They need to say no.

3416
02:05:05,385 --> 02:05:07,170
And there's a
couple of more

3417
02:05:07,170 --> 02:05:08,640
than just denied this last

3418
02:05:08,640 --> 02:05:10,560
Wednesday that I'm sure

3419
02:05:10,560 --> 02:05:11,610
will go up on appeal and

3420
02:05:11,610 --> 02:05:13,110
they're gonna be
dressing that same issue

3421
02:05:13,110 --> 02:05:14,924
and they've got to
start saying no,

3422
02:05:14,924 --> 02:05:17,289
there's no question
about that.

3423
02:05:18,500 --> 02:05:23,309
When will they get
to the core? Month?

3424
02:05:23,309 --> 02:05:24,690
All prob probably

3425
02:05:24,690 --> 02:05:26,789
within a month,
month-and-a-half.

3426
02:05:26,789 --> 02:05:28,949
Usually on these today,

3427
02:05:28,949 --> 02:05:32,205
they request the
applicant to waver

3428
02:05:32,205 --> 02:05:34,260
120 day rule and
then the court

3429
02:05:34,260 --> 02:05:38,379
takes more time on
on these issues.

3430
02:05:43,040 --> 02:05:48,059
The last Planning
Commission meeting,

3431
02:05:48,059 --> 02:05:51,900
there were three
applications that were

3432
02:05:51,900 --> 02:05:53,579
old applications
that have been on

3433
02:05:53,579 --> 02:05:54,780
continuous abroad came

3434
02:05:54,780 --> 02:05:56,354
back to the Planning
Commission.

3435
02:05:56,354 --> 02:06:00,254
To one of those was
by Mr. embargo,

3436
02:06:00,254 --> 02:06:01,620
who we've already appealed

3437
02:06:01,620 --> 02:06:03,089
one of the approvals of

3438
02:06:03,089 --> 02:06:05,219
his partition
of 40 acre into

3439
02:06:05,219 --> 02:06:06,450
three smaller
parcels that's

3440
02:06:06,450 --> 02:06:08,489
before Luba at
the present time,

3441
02:06:08,489 --> 02:06:11,130
he was in for
137 acre parcel

3442
02:06:11,130 --> 02:06:13,725
to break off to ten acre
parcels off of that,

3443
02:06:13,725 --> 02:06:16,230
he brought in new
information At

3444
02:06:16,230 --> 02:06:17,879
the meeting and requested

3445
02:06:17,879 --> 02:06:18,960
the record remained open.

3446
02:06:18,960 --> 02:06:20,310
So planning commission
will not make

3447
02:06:20,310 --> 02:06:21,390
a final decision on

3448
02:06:21,390 --> 02:06:22,905
that until the
next meeting.

3449
02:06:22,905 --> 02:06:24,930
But another decision
was brought in with

3450
02:06:24,930 --> 02:06:28,409
a with a 242 acre parcel,

3451
02:06:28,409 --> 02:06:29,849
foreign parcel to break it

3452
02:06:29,849 --> 02:06:32,265
into a 232.2 fives.

3453
02:06:32,265 --> 02:06:33,600
There was testimony from

3454
02:06:33,600 --> 02:06:36,419
adjacent 160 acre
farm operation that

3455
02:06:36,419 --> 02:06:38,069
said this would have
a negative impact

3456
02:06:38,069 --> 02:06:39,659
on our farm operation.

3457
02:06:39,659 --> 02:06:42,720
And we also myself
objected to it

3458
02:06:42,720 --> 02:06:43,830
because we felt
it would change

3459
02:06:43,830 --> 02:06:46,439
the overall land use
pattern of the area.

3460
02:06:46,439 --> 02:06:48,389
And the Planning
Commission

3461
02:06:48,389 --> 02:06:50,019
denied that application.

3462
02:06:50,019 --> 02:06:51,765
Based upon that point,

3463
02:06:51,765 --> 02:06:54,540
that they felt that
the neighbors did show

3464
02:06:54,540 --> 02:06:55,620
clearly that
that would have

3465
02:06:55,620 --> 02:06:57,900
an adverse impact
on their operation.

3466
02:06:57,900 --> 02:07:00,420
It was going to be right
next to their fence.

3467
02:07:00,420 --> 02:07:02,909
And the Planning
Commission clearly

3468
02:07:02,909 --> 02:07:04,049
and the old changing

3469
02:07:04,049 --> 02:07:05,399
the overall land use
better the area.

3470
02:07:05,399 --> 02:07:06,599
So the Planning
Commission has been

3471
02:07:06,599 --> 02:07:08,414
making some very
good decision.

3472
02:07:08,414 --> 02:07:10,650
Also, they had a
decision up on

3473
02:07:10,650 --> 02:07:11,879
Wednesday night
with regard

3474
02:07:11,879 --> 02:07:13,769
to the Riverside rach,

3475
02:07:13,769 --> 02:07:15,990
it was a five acre
parcel in unit one.

3476
02:07:15,990 --> 02:07:17,399
And if you
remember, there was

3477
02:07:17,399 --> 02:07:19,769
three units Riverside
ranch for unit one,

3478
02:07:19,769 --> 02:07:21,030
which is right along

3479
02:07:21,030 --> 02:07:23,070
the host proline
a highway.

3480
02:07:23,070 --> 02:07:24,539
And then units 2.3 were

3481
02:07:24,539 --> 02:07:26,475
3 mi South of the highway.

3482
02:07:26,475 --> 02:07:28,050
And this was in unit one.

3483
02:07:28,050 --> 02:07:29,970
It accessed out
of the highway.

3484
02:07:29,970 --> 02:07:32,819
It was in the corner of
the area adjacent to

3485
02:07:32,819 --> 02:07:36,060
BLM property Planning
Commission denied

3486
02:07:36,060 --> 02:07:38,700
that application because
exactly the issues

3487
02:07:38,700 --> 02:07:39,959
of Blair mentioned to you

3488
02:07:39,959 --> 02:07:42,180
before that it would
have an impact

3489
02:07:42,180 --> 02:07:44,609
on the overall
land-use patterns,

3490
02:07:44,609 --> 02:07:46,035
the area of the
post Paulina,

3491
02:07:46,035 --> 02:07:47,774
which is cattle
operations,

3492
02:07:47,774 --> 02:07:50,279
and approving that
they felt very

3493
02:07:50,279 --> 02:07:52,769
strongly until
we that they'd

3494
02:07:52,769 --> 02:07:54,180
the planning commission
feels that they

3495
02:07:54,180 --> 02:07:56,040
cannot approve
any applications

3496
02:07:56,040 --> 02:07:57,944
in the Riverside
ranch until

3497
02:07:57,944 --> 02:08:00,749
it is clarified
until the state and

3498
02:08:00,749 --> 02:08:02,039
the county come
up with a way to

3499
02:08:02,039 --> 02:08:03,989
resolve that
issue of what is

3500
02:08:03,989 --> 02:08:05,100
the impacts and how are

3501
02:08:05,100 --> 02:08:07,695
the impacts on that
agricultural area.

3502
02:08:07,695 --> 02:08:10,140
So again, the
Planning Commission,

3503
02:08:10,140 --> 02:08:13,214
very, very good
decision in that point.

3504
02:08:13,214 --> 02:08:15,269
Again, I'm

3505
02:08:15,269 --> 02:08:16,755
very pleased with the
Planning Commission.

3506
02:08:16,755 --> 02:08:17,760
I think they've
been making

3507
02:08:17,760 --> 02:08:19,140
some very good decisions

3508
02:08:19,140 --> 02:08:21,479
and have continued to
make those in the past,

3509
02:08:21,479 --> 02:08:24,010
like I say, 15 months,

3510
02:08:24,530 --> 02:08:26,849
where our
recommendation to

3511
02:08:26,849 --> 02:08:28,889
the commission is for
us to continue to

3512
02:08:28,889 --> 02:08:31,229
report on a eight

3513
02:08:31,229 --> 02:08:33,149
at each of the meetings
because I think

3514
02:08:33,149 --> 02:08:34,080
we'll see some actions

3515
02:08:34,080 --> 02:08:35,130
by the county
court and the

3516
02:08:35,130 --> 02:08:38,445
recent in the recent
in the near future.

3517
02:08:38,445 --> 02:08:40,619
And we need to
continue to monitor

3518
02:08:40,619 --> 02:08:43,050
those and continue
to report back.

3519
02:08:43,050 --> 02:08:43,920
So at this time,

3520
02:08:43,920 --> 02:08:46,005
we're not recommending
and enforcement order,

3521
02:08:46,005 --> 02:08:47,790
but we are recommending
that you continue

3522
02:08:47,790 --> 02:08:49,995
to monitor this and we
continue to report.

3523
02:08:49,995 --> 02:08:51,300
And if we find
that there's

3524
02:08:51,300 --> 02:08:53,009
a need for that action,

3525
02:08:53,009 --> 02:08:54,375
we will recommend that at

3526
02:08:54,375 --> 02:08:58,030
a next meeting or meeting
subsequent results.

3527
02:08:58,870 --> 02:09:01,400
Good job brand at
the Commission

3528
02:09:01,400 --> 02:09:02,990
wants to buy you
a suit of armor,

3529
02:09:02,990 --> 02:09:05,630
I would recommend
we do so.

3530
02:09:05,630 --> 02:09:08,719
That's where this
gets pretty tough.

3531
02:09:08,719 --> 02:09:11,060
One question that comes
up with regard to

3532
02:09:11,060 --> 02:09:13,549
Ron's pile material
on rooms I'd ran,

3533
02:09:13,549 --> 02:09:16,039
what are we expecting
department to

3534
02:09:16,039 --> 02:09:18,140
do on this question

3535
02:09:18,140 --> 02:09:20,105
of is it legal, is it not?

3536
02:09:20,105 --> 02:09:22,025
I mean, I don't know.

3537
02:09:22,025 --> 02:09:23,480
Maybe maybe you guys

3538
02:09:23,480 --> 02:09:25,129
have a clear sense
of your direction,

3539
02:09:25,129 --> 02:09:26,300
but it's not clear to me

3540
02:09:26,300 --> 02:09:29,300
what what you're
going to do with

3541
02:09:29,300 --> 02:09:31,189
that whole
independent question

3542
02:09:31,189 --> 02:09:33,680
of not case-by-case
approvals,

3543
02:09:33,680 --> 02:09:34,699
but what do we have out

3544
02:09:34,699 --> 02:09:37,114
here and what can
be made of it?

3545
02:09:37,114 --> 02:09:40,015
I think there's two.

3546
02:09:40,015 --> 02:09:43,259
Aspects that hit me

3547
02:09:43,259 --> 02:09:45,690
on the Riverside
ranch situation, one,

3548
02:09:45,690 --> 02:09:48,059
I think up until
it came forward,

3549
02:09:48,059 --> 02:09:49,680
the county simply said,

3550
02:09:49,680 --> 02:09:52,380
it's an old pre-approved
subdivision.

3551
02:09:52,380 --> 02:09:54,809
They can and we
have no choice.

3552
02:09:54,809 --> 02:09:56,819
There's an implied
right to develop.

3553
02:09:56,819 --> 02:09:59,399
I think they may
still feel that,

3554
02:09:59,399 --> 02:10:00,810
but I think they
understand now

3555
02:10:00,810 --> 02:10:03,779
that from the
history of it,

3556
02:10:03,779 --> 02:10:06,179
that it's not a
subdivision and

3557
02:10:06,179 --> 02:10:08,910
that the
lawfulness of some

3558
02:10:08,910 --> 02:10:10,049
of the parcels
and when they

3559
02:10:10,049 --> 02:10:11,550
actually came into

3560
02:10:11,550 --> 02:10:15,749
creation by deed filings
is going to vary.

3561
02:10:15,749 --> 02:10:18,915
And so they look at that.

3562
02:10:18,915 --> 02:10:20,715
So that's an
understanding.

3563
02:10:20,715 --> 02:10:21,839
I think the second part

3564
02:10:21,839 --> 02:10:24,890
is they're recognizing
the conflict

3565
02:10:24,890 --> 02:10:27,199
that could emerge if a
lot of dwellings were

3566
02:10:27,199 --> 02:10:30,019
approved with the
neighboring ranchers.

3567
02:10:30,019 --> 02:10:32,269
And I suppose the
direction we're

3568
02:10:32,269 --> 02:10:34,730
looking for is how can we

3569
02:10:34,730 --> 02:10:37,099
reduce the number of
parcels out there

3570
02:10:37,099 --> 02:10:40,820
through aggregation
and consolidation?

3571
02:10:40,820 --> 02:10:42,905
The county, once we see

3572
02:10:42,905 --> 02:10:45,694
the exact holdings
that the county has,

3573
02:10:45,694 --> 02:10:47,929
what can they consolidate?

3574
02:10:47,929 --> 02:10:49,070
There's been a thought

3575
02:10:49,070 --> 02:10:53,375
that there could
possibly be some trades.

3576
02:10:53,375 --> 02:10:56,179
The county held
unit land in

3577
02:10:56,179 --> 02:10:59,120
certain units that
were less onerous.

3578
02:10:59,120 --> 02:11:00,575
They could trade with

3579
02:11:00,575 --> 02:11:02,495
property owners what
they owned for,

3580
02:11:02,495 --> 02:11:04,870
what someone else had.

3581
02:11:04,870 --> 02:11:07,080
There are some
significant issues about

3582
02:11:07,080 --> 02:11:09,599
the right-of-way
in the road

3583
02:11:09,599 --> 02:11:12,060
access into units 2.3.

3584
02:11:12,060 --> 02:11:13,710
So there's been
some thought of

3585
02:11:13,710 --> 02:11:16,650
possibly a different
access route might

3586
02:11:16,650 --> 02:11:17,879
have less of an impact

3587
02:11:17,879 --> 02:11:20,129
on the ranching community.

3588
02:11:20,129 --> 02:11:24,570
So reducing the density
and access in some of

3589
02:11:24,570 --> 02:11:26,460
those issues will be

3590
02:11:26,460 --> 02:11:29,174
explored as far as
we can go with it.

3591
02:11:29,174 --> 02:11:30,839
I guess the reason
for my question

3592
02:11:30,839 --> 02:11:32,700
is it occurs to me
that rather than

3593
02:11:32,700 --> 02:11:35,940
be in a position to
have to react to

3594
02:11:35,940 --> 02:11:37,859
what interpretation
they may offer on

3595
02:11:37,859 --> 02:11:39,000
a parcel by parcel or

3596
02:11:39,000 --> 02:11:40,770
approval by accrual basis.

3597
02:11:40,770 --> 02:11:42,839
It seems to me there's
some efficiencies

3598
02:11:42,839 --> 02:11:44,070
for us

3599
02:11:44,070 --> 02:11:45,314
to jump in front

3600
02:11:45,314 --> 02:11:47,550
and help foster
or broker that.

3601
02:11:47,550 --> 02:11:49,920
I think that's
the notion of

3602
02:11:49,920 --> 02:11:52,649
trying to get somewhere
that we know what,

3603
02:11:52,649 --> 02:11:54,600
what's on the table
and what it is.

3604
02:11:54,600 --> 02:11:56,759
So it isn't just
one-by-one for

3605
02:11:56,759 --> 02:11:59,235
the next 25 years.

3606
02:11:59,235 --> 02:12:00,809
One thing that I guess has

3607
02:12:00,809 --> 02:12:02,400
become clear to
us since we've

3608
02:12:02,400 --> 02:12:05,685
been involved in this
matter with the county,

3609
02:12:05,685 --> 02:12:08,789
is that the county
planning department itself

3610
02:12:08,789 --> 02:12:10,530
has limited
capability to do

3611
02:12:10,530 --> 02:12:13,005
the kind of digging that
we're talking about.

3612
02:12:13,005 --> 02:12:16,349
And we could, I suppose
walk away from it.

3613
02:12:16,349 --> 02:12:19,964
But what we are rather
inclined to do is to

3614
02:12:19,964 --> 02:12:24,524
interest the county
in our assistance.

3615
02:12:24,524 --> 02:12:26,699
And it would probably
be in the form

3616
02:12:26,699 --> 02:12:29,999
of small grant to

3617
02:12:29,999 --> 02:12:31,589
identify a person and

3618
02:12:31,589 --> 02:12:32,939
we would work with the
county to make sure

3619
02:12:32,939 --> 02:12:34,785
it's a person of
their choosing

3620
02:12:34,785 --> 02:12:36,330
and our choosing.

3621
02:12:36,330 --> 02:12:38,189
To do the research that

3622
02:12:38,189 --> 02:12:39,614
neither brands nor Ron

3623
02:12:39,614 --> 02:12:41,700
really has the time to do.

3624
02:12:41,700 --> 02:12:44,459
Once we get a sense, e.g.

3625
02:12:44,459 --> 02:12:46,590
how many of the
parcels out

3626
02:12:46,590 --> 02:12:48,705
there were legally
established,

3627
02:12:48,705 --> 02:12:50,730
how many were established

3628
02:12:50,730 --> 02:12:53,175
before the cutoff date

3629
02:12:53,175 --> 02:12:55,395
and a lot of
record law, etc.

3630
02:12:55,395 --> 02:12:58,079
How many parcels
the county itself

3631
02:12:58,079 --> 02:13:00,989
owns is as I understand,
I think for rent,

3632
02:13:00,989 --> 02:13:02,190
the county is about to

3633
02:13:02,190 --> 02:13:04,274
come into another chunk,

3634
02:13:04,274 --> 02:13:06,090
a small chunk
of the parcels

3635
02:13:06,090 --> 02:13:08,654
for nonpayment of
property taxes.

3636
02:13:08,654 --> 02:13:10,560
We and the county can

3637
02:13:10,560 --> 02:13:12,420
begin to put
together a strategy

3638
02:13:12,420 --> 02:13:14,280
that would be
aimed at reducing

3639
02:13:14,280 --> 02:13:16,110
the number of tracks and

3640
02:13:16,110 --> 02:13:18,150
consolidating as many
as possible with

3641
02:13:18,150 --> 02:13:21,600
surrounding
ranches that we

3642
02:13:21,600 --> 02:13:22,769
have to be active about

3643
02:13:22,769 --> 02:13:24,149
that because the county,

3644
02:13:24,149 --> 02:13:25,530
I don t think, has

3645
02:13:25,530 --> 02:13:28,184
the capability of
doing it on its own.

3646
02:13:28,184 --> 02:13:30,450
There's also just a lot

3647
02:13:30,450 --> 02:13:32,039
of missing documents I

3648
02:13:32,039 --> 02:13:33,285
was able to find

3649
02:13:33,285 --> 02:13:35,579
in the real estate
division files.

3650
02:13:35,579 --> 02:13:36,959
I copied everything that

3651
02:13:36,959 --> 02:13:39,345
was on county stationary.

3652
02:13:39,345 --> 02:13:41,189
Our understanding is that

3653
02:13:41,189 --> 02:13:42,209
there's a lot of stuff

3654
02:13:42,209 --> 02:13:43,469
that used to be at
the county that

3655
02:13:43,469 --> 02:13:45,690
simply got thrown away.

3656
02:13:45,690 --> 02:13:48,539
And there's some
question in

3657
02:13:48,539 --> 02:13:49,199
one period where

3658
02:13:49,199 --> 02:13:50,640
the county sort
of restricted

3659
02:13:50,640 --> 02:13:53,970
or conditionally
suspended the approvals

3660
02:13:53,970 --> 02:13:56,579
pending some
later actions,

3661
02:13:56,579 --> 02:13:58,109
and we have a
record of some of

3662
02:13:58,109 --> 02:13:59,940
those things being acted

3663
02:13:59,940 --> 02:14:01,889
on by the county,
but not others.

3664
02:14:01,889 --> 02:14:04,260
And I know some
of the gym would

3665
02:14:04,260 --> 02:14:07,199
And and Mr.
Wolverton are going

3666
02:14:07,199 --> 02:14:08,760
through the county court

3667
02:14:08,760 --> 02:14:11,205
minutes from that
period of time to see

3668
02:14:11,205 --> 02:14:13,229
if there's any record
of them acting

3669
02:14:13,229 --> 02:14:15,944
on some of these things
one way or the other.

3670
02:14:15,944 --> 02:14:18,360
There's also a
circuit court record

3671
02:14:18,360 --> 02:14:20,009
that dealt with some
of these questions and

3672
02:14:20,009 --> 02:14:21,960
they're going to look
to see whether or

3673
02:14:21,960 --> 02:14:26,805
not the circuit courts
archive has any files.

3674
02:14:26,805 --> 02:14:30,195
So a lot of it is
still, you know,

3675
02:14:30,195 --> 02:14:33,045
investigate a
investigative

3676
02:14:33,045 --> 02:14:34,710
exercise and trying to

3677
02:14:34,710 --> 02:14:36,990
reconstruct what
actually occurred out

3678
02:14:36,990 --> 02:14:40,215
there is part of
what's missing.

3679
02:14:40,215 --> 02:14:41,909
There just is no record of

3680
02:14:41,909 --> 02:14:44,384
the deed or the
creation of the parcel.

3681
02:14:44,384 --> 02:14:46,590
Well, some of
what that would

3682
02:14:46,590 --> 02:14:48,900
entail is going into the

3683
02:14:48,900 --> 02:14:50,999
county records
almost lot by

3684
02:14:50,999 --> 02:14:55,124
lot in tracking
the deed records.

3685
02:14:55,124 --> 02:14:56,519
Haven't done that
yet. We haven't

3686
02:14:56,519 --> 02:14:58,739
tried know that.
I know. Okay.

3687
02:14:58,739 --> 02:15:00,180
That would be an
admittance job

3688
02:15:00,180 --> 02:15:01,725
that we could not do.

3689
02:15:01,725 --> 02:15:03,824
The real estate
commission would just be

3690
02:15:03,824 --> 02:15:06,630
subdivision type
filings. Yeah.

3691
02:15:06,630 --> 02:15:09,570
But at the time they
had even though it

3692
02:15:09,570 --> 02:15:11,310
wasn't technically
a subdivision

3693
02:15:11,310 --> 02:15:12,750
because the parcels were.

3694
02:15:12,750 --> 02:15:14,535
Greater than five acres,

3695
02:15:14,535 --> 02:15:17,190
you could file
a survey or an

3696
02:15:17,190 --> 02:15:21,315
unrecorded because you
were selling the land,

3697
02:15:21,315 --> 02:15:22,784
you had to file

3698
02:15:22,784 --> 02:15:23,549
information with

3699
02:15:23,549 --> 02:15:24,780
a real estate
commission and they

3700
02:15:24,780 --> 02:15:27,884
issued a report
prior to any sales.

3701
02:15:27,884 --> 02:15:30,720
So that's why the real
estate commission has

3702
02:15:30,720 --> 02:15:36,075
so much information
on fun.

3703
02:15:36,075 --> 02:15:38,250
Where do we stand on
the pelvic study?

3704
02:15:38,250 --> 02:15:39,749
Was that finalized and now

3705
02:15:39,749 --> 02:15:40,844
the County of
San they wanted

3706
02:15:40,844 --> 02:15:42,345
additional help out there.

3707
02:15:42,345 --> 02:15:43,229
What's that going to work

3708
02:15:43,229 --> 02:15:44,265
direction that's
going to take

3709
02:15:44,265 --> 02:15:46,830
a copy of study is
still undergoing.

3710
02:15:46,830 --> 02:15:48,749
The mapping has been done.

3711
02:15:48,749 --> 02:15:50,535
They are in the process of

3712
02:15:50,535 --> 02:15:54,749
analyzing the areas
or exceptions

3713
02:15:54,749 --> 02:15:56,069
to the agriculture
because there is

3714
02:15:56,069 --> 02:15:57,569
a lot of class six soils

3715
02:15:57,569 --> 02:15:59,250
and some other class

3716
02:15:59,250 --> 02:16:00,825
forest soils in that area.

3717
02:16:00,825 --> 02:16:02,970
They are preparing
that the staff is

3718
02:16:02,970 --> 02:16:05,669
supposed to have those
exceptions documents

3719
02:16:05,669 --> 02:16:08,430
ready by mid
February and I think

3720
02:16:08,430 --> 02:16:10,080
that's I think is going to

3721
02:16:10,080 --> 02:16:12,015
be mid-March before
they have that.

3722
02:16:12,015 --> 02:16:14,009
And then we will
be looking at

3723
02:16:14,009 --> 02:16:16,169
that with them
to come up with

3724
02:16:16,169 --> 02:16:17,790
a recommendation to

3725
02:16:17,790 --> 02:16:20,115
the county court
on our approval

3726
02:16:20,115 --> 02:16:22,245
of a non resource area

3727
02:16:22,245 --> 02:16:24,915
that is not
agricultural lands.

3728
02:16:24,915 --> 02:16:26,699
There that may
be happening,

3729
02:16:26,699 --> 02:16:29,534
but that's a long
ways. I, I agree.

3730
02:16:29,534 --> 02:16:30,570
I don t think
we're going to

3731
02:16:30,570 --> 02:16:31,770
see any adoption by

3732
02:16:31,770 --> 02:16:35,054
before June that
we can all concur.

3733
02:16:35,054 --> 02:16:36,210
Now, the county's very

3734
02:16:36,210 --> 02:16:37,709
aware that were
involved in it.

3735
02:16:37,709 --> 02:16:39,269
We had kept us away from

3736
02:16:39,269 --> 02:16:40,860
the enforcement
order issue

3737
02:16:40,860 --> 02:16:42,209
of very purposeful because

3738
02:16:42,209 --> 02:16:43,305
nothing had been done.

3739
02:16:43,305 --> 02:16:45,809
The county recommended
that this be

3740
02:16:45,809 --> 02:16:47,400
added to the Memorandum
of Understanding

3741
02:16:47,400 --> 02:16:48,644
and that's fine with us.

3742
02:16:48,644 --> 02:16:50,729
But it is ongoing.

3743
02:16:50,729 --> 02:16:53,579
There. Like I said, the
mapping has dropped.

3744
02:16:53,579 --> 02:16:54,930
The mapping has been done.

3745
02:16:54,930 --> 02:16:56,490
A draft recommendation by

3746
02:16:56,490 --> 02:16:57,870
the Planning Commission
of the areas that

3747
02:16:57,870 --> 02:16:59,504
should be considered
has been done.

3748
02:16:59,504 --> 02:17:01,559
But now we're doing
the exception areas,

3749
02:17:01,559 --> 02:17:03,720
particularly the
adjacent lands,

3750
02:17:03,720 --> 02:17:05,084
were very interested.

3751
02:17:05,084 --> 02:17:06,660
If somebody has
got classic

3752
02:17:06,660 --> 02:17:08,805
soil in this area,

3753
02:17:08,805 --> 02:17:11,084
What's the what's the
agricultural operation

3754
02:17:11,084 --> 02:17:12,149
of that property,

3755
02:17:12,149 --> 02:17:13,409
as well as the adjacent

3756
02:17:13,409 --> 02:17:14,985
properties outside
of the study,

3757
02:17:14,985 --> 02:17:18,540
which may be a full
blown a farm operation.

3758
02:17:18,540 --> 02:17:20,280
And these lands are
very necessary to

3759
02:17:20,280 --> 02:17:22,530
continue that
agricultural operation.

3760
02:17:22,530 --> 02:17:23,819
So that is what

3761
02:17:23,819 --> 02:17:26,249
the county is doing.
They had a consultant.

3762
02:17:26,249 --> 02:17:28,230
They simply couldn't
afford him.

3763
02:17:28,230 --> 02:17:30,179
So they've turned one
of their staff people

3764
02:17:30,179 --> 02:17:31,724
totally into this project.

3765
02:17:31,724 --> 02:17:32,609
And that is one another

3766
02:17:32,609 --> 02:17:33,480
one of their problems.

3767
02:17:33,480 --> 02:17:34,500
That's that was half of

3768
02:17:34,500 --> 02:17:36,389
their staff that
actually did the work.

3769
02:17:36,389 --> 02:17:37,530
And the other one is doing

3770
02:17:37,530 --> 02:17:39,090
all the non-pharm
dwellings

3771
02:17:39,090 --> 02:17:40,229
and the other applications

3772
02:17:40,229 --> 02:17:42,149
that come before
the county.

3773
02:17:42,149 --> 02:17:45,134
One other issue
that Blair raised

3774
02:17:45,134 --> 02:17:48,194
is in an area
of assistance.

3775
02:17:48,194 --> 02:17:49,559
We are going to be

3776
02:17:49,559 --> 02:17:51,149
meeting with the
county to try and put

3777
02:17:51,149 --> 02:17:52,380
together some workshops on

3778
02:17:52,380 --> 02:17:54,495
findings and how you
do staff reports,

3779
02:17:54,495 --> 02:17:55,980
altering their
staff reports

3780
02:17:55,980 --> 02:17:57,059
and working with them.

3781
02:17:57,059 --> 02:17:59,820
Again, it's a problem
of timing on ours and

3782
02:17:59,820 --> 02:18:00,960
timing with the
County of just

3783
02:18:00,960 --> 02:18:02,534
trying to find some
time to do that,

3784
02:18:02,534 --> 02:18:03,779
but we will be
doing that in

3785
02:18:03,779 --> 02:18:05,310
the near future and
I hope to report

3786
02:18:05,310 --> 02:18:06,689
back if we have

3787
02:18:06,689 --> 02:18:08,190
not held those at
the next meeting,

3788
02:18:08,190 --> 02:18:11,200
at least a timeframe
that we've set up.

3789
02:18:13,100 --> 02:18:15,659
Sorry, I got so
many questions,

3790
02:18:15,659 --> 02:18:16,260
but how did

3791
02:18:16,260 --> 02:18:18,120
the Department of
Transportation in

3792
02:18:18,120 --> 02:18:19,769
their 22 million
dollar study

3793
02:18:19,769 --> 02:18:21,164
for the pelvic area,

3794
02:18:21,164 --> 02:18:22,499
how does that
inner thigh and

3795
02:18:22,499 --> 02:18:24,465
get into this situation?

3796
02:18:24,465 --> 02:18:26,069
Well, that was generated

3797
02:18:26,069 --> 02:18:28,454
because of the
concerns that

3798
02:18:28,454 --> 02:18:30,779
department transportation
was concerned

3799
02:18:30,779 --> 02:18:32,355
with this palette
Butte study and if

3800
02:18:32,355 --> 02:18:35,969
it was the original
draft was 17,000 acres.

3801
02:18:35,969 --> 02:18:37,920
If you broke that into the

3802
02:18:37,920 --> 02:18:40,575
county's recommended
five acres and worst,

3803
02:18:40,575 --> 02:18:42,735
strictly against that
kind of density.

3804
02:18:42,735 --> 02:18:44,549
But what would
be the maximum

3805
02:18:44,549 --> 02:18:46,680
effect of the area?

3806
02:18:46,680 --> 02:18:47,849
And that's what
the Department

3807
02:18:47,849 --> 02:18:49,349
transportation came
up with because

3808
02:18:49,349 --> 02:18:50,489
they were in the
process of doing

3809
02:18:50,489 --> 02:18:52,470
a transportation
systems plan.

3810
02:18:52,470 --> 02:18:54,599
And they came up with
the $22 million.

3811
02:18:54,599 --> 02:18:56,280
That's what it
would cost for full

3812
02:18:56,280 --> 02:18:58,559
build-out old
development of highway

3813
02:18:58,559 --> 02:19:03,375
126 with overpasses
at different places.

3814
02:19:03,375 --> 02:19:05,400
That's county fields.

3815
02:19:05,400 --> 02:19:06,825
That's more of a
50-year buildup

3816
02:19:06,825 --> 02:19:09,159
than a 20-year build-out.

3817
02:19:09,250 --> 02:19:11,689
Department
transportation did come

3818
02:19:11,689 --> 02:19:12,874
up with a maximum,

3819
02:19:12,874 --> 02:19:15,380
what would it cost if
you develop this area?

3820
02:19:15,380 --> 02:19:18,034
That's exactly what we
encourage them to do.

3821
02:19:18,034 --> 02:19:19,159
Come up with a maximum.

3822
02:19:19,159 --> 02:19:21,140
Now we'll start to
look at what what can

3823
02:19:21,140 --> 02:19:23,240
realistically they
don't take it.

3824
02:19:23,240 --> 02:19:24,350
The 22 million was

3825
02:19:24,350 --> 02:19:26,179
the cost of infrastructure,
not surprisingly,

3826
02:19:26,179 --> 02:19:28,099
study on other
infrastructure,

3827
02:19:28,099 --> 02:19:29,240
future infrastructures.

3828
02:19:29,240 --> 02:19:30,259
But I think there are some

3829
02:19:30,259 --> 02:19:32,644
of his study guide.

3830
02:19:32,644 --> 02:19:36,769
We're in the wrong
business. Wrong.

3831
02:19:36,769 --> 02:19:38,759
I already know that.

3832
02:19:40,270 --> 02:19:41,899
Right now.

3833
02:19:41,899 --> 02:19:44,150
That's the counties

3834
02:19:44,150 --> 02:19:45,470
not reason the
county is not here.

3835
02:19:45,470 --> 02:19:46,490
It's not lack of interest.

3836
02:19:46,490 --> 02:19:48,380
I can guarantee
you on this issue.

3837
02:19:48,380 --> 02:19:50,839
They are filing an
appeal on the door

3838
02:19:50,839 --> 02:19:51,949
Vin versus

3839
02:19:51,949 --> 02:19:53,270
Clark County to the
Court of Appeals,

3840
02:19:53,270 --> 02:19:54,199
which has to be in by

3841
02:19:54,199 --> 02:19:55,745
Tuesday morning
I understand.

3842
02:19:55,745 --> 02:19:57,139
Or Tuesday afternoon.

3843
02:19:57,139 --> 02:19:58,879
And they are the counties

3844
02:19:58,879 --> 02:20:00,515
filing that appeal
on working on that.

3845
02:20:00,515 --> 02:20:02,390
So we just felt

3846
02:20:02,390 --> 02:20:03,920
we recommend it to
them that there was

3847
02:20:03,920 --> 02:20:05,060
not a meet a need to be

3848
02:20:05,060 --> 02:20:06,529
here because we were
going to not be

3849
02:20:06,529 --> 02:20:08,689
recommended in any action
at this time other

3850
02:20:08,689 --> 02:20:12,209
than to continue to
monitor as we have done.

3851
02:20:13,060 --> 02:20:14,720
Alright.

3852
02:20:14,720 --> 02:20:16,789
So that I don't think
we have we don't have

3853
02:20:16,789 --> 02:20:20,340
to take any action
as a commission.

3854
02:20:21,100 --> 02:20:23,660
Thank you and thank
you for your vigilance

3855
02:20:23,660 --> 02:20:26,850
and all your diplomacy.

3856
02:20:28,480 --> 02:20:31,880
And convey. No, I

3857
02:20:31,880 --> 02:20:33,744
think you should
convey to the

3858
02:20:33,744 --> 02:20:36,195
Planning Commission
that were the same.

3859
02:20:36,195 --> 02:20:38,400
The commissioner
heard and as pleased

3860
02:20:38,400 --> 02:20:42,735
also with their
activities.

3861
02:20:42,735 --> 02:20:43,799
Actually, I will
carry that.

3862
02:20:43,799 --> 02:20:44,639
I'm not so sure that's

3863
02:20:44,639 --> 02:20:45,960
a good message for them.

3864
02:20:45,960 --> 02:20:47,639
Well, you should
think about

3865
02:20:47,639 --> 02:20:49,199
how you would want
to convey that.

3866
02:20:49,199 --> 02:20:49,889
I will carry to

3867
02:20:49,889 --> 02:20:51,074
the planning
commission chairman

3868
02:20:51,074 --> 02:20:52,694
strongly that that word.

3869
02:20:52,694 --> 02:20:54,074
And I do.

3870
02:20:54,074 --> 02:20:56,190
The other positive
light I see is

3871
02:20:56,190 --> 02:20:57,749
those planning
commissioners who you are

3872
02:20:57,749 --> 02:20:59,189
so impressed with were

3873
02:20:59,189 --> 02:21:00,750
appointed by men
and some of them,

3874
02:21:00,750 --> 02:21:02,520
as I recall, were
recent last six months,

3875
02:21:02,520 --> 02:21:04,229
those people were
appointed by this court?

3876
02:21:04,229 --> 02:21:08,349
Yes. So that's a
positive signal.

3877
02:21:08,570 --> 02:21:10,365
Okay.

3878
02:21:10,365 --> 02:21:10,979
Jen,

3879
02:21:10,979 --> 02:21:14,445
I'm six, Trish Daniel,
citizen involvement.

3880
02:21:14,445 --> 02:21:19,169
They can see
for vacancies.

3881
02:21:19,169 --> 02:21:21,060
I'll make this brief.

3882
02:21:21,060 --> 02:21:24,059
You already have in

3883
02:21:24,059 --> 02:21:27,585
your packet the
information about

3884
02:21:27,585 --> 02:21:30,269
the terms of force
TAC members that will

3885
02:21:30,269 --> 02:21:35,294
become will expire in
January or in 1998.

3886
02:21:35,294 --> 02:21:39,104
I have two requests today.

3887
02:21:39,104 --> 02:21:40,890
One is that you act on

3888
02:21:40,890 --> 02:21:42,374
Robert molten Howard's

3889
02:21:42,374 --> 02:21:44,310
appointment or
reappointment,

3890
02:21:44,310 --> 02:21:48,165
which expires in fact,
this month, January.

3891
02:21:48,165 --> 02:21:53,249
And the second is that
you either sign off

3892
02:21:53,249 --> 02:21:54,959
on the suggested
process for

3893
02:21:54,959 --> 02:21:57,104
filling remaining
vacancies

3894
02:21:57,104 --> 02:21:58,410
as we described it.

3895
02:21:58,410 --> 02:22:00,269
Or if you have
suggestions,

3896
02:22:00,269 --> 02:22:04,364
we can make them to me,
modify the process.

3897
02:22:04,364 --> 02:22:07,215
I spoke with Robert
molten Hauer

3898
02:22:07,215 --> 02:22:09,690
before the holidays
and he assured me he

3899
02:22:09,690 --> 02:22:12,029
was willing to continue
not only willing but

3900
02:22:12,029 --> 02:22:15,494
interested in
continuing to serve.

3901
02:22:15,494 --> 02:22:18,569
And it has been

3902
02:22:18,569 --> 02:22:20,205
your practice to reappoint

3903
02:22:20,205 --> 02:22:22,635
incumbent members who
want to continue.

3904
02:22:22,635 --> 02:22:24,599
Of course, you do
have the option of

3905
02:22:24,599 --> 02:22:27,419
deciding that you might
want to do otherwise.

3906
02:22:27,419 --> 02:22:29,970
If you should choose
not to reappoint him,

3907
02:22:29,970 --> 02:22:31,769
we would simply include

3908
02:22:31,769 --> 02:22:34,650
his his seat in

3909
02:22:34,650 --> 02:22:36,329
the recruitment
process that

3910
02:22:36,329 --> 02:22:38,799
I've described
to you already.

3911
02:22:39,890 --> 02:22:41,445
Okay.

3912
02:22:41,445 --> 02:22:43,020
Is there a motion
I would move that

3913
02:22:43,020 --> 02:22:46,769
we reappoint
Mr. Morton hour

3914
02:22:46,769 --> 02:22:51,479
and also endorsed the
selection process

3915
02:22:51,479 --> 02:22:52,380
on the backside of

3916
02:22:52,380 --> 02:22:55,050
the page memorandum
from staff.

3917
02:22:55,050 --> 02:22:56,924
And I scan the schedule

3918
02:22:56,924 --> 02:22:58,829
as well as the schedule.

3919
02:22:58,829 --> 02:23:00,629
The selection process is

3920
02:23:00,629 --> 02:23:01,769
Commissioner
with Robert and

3921
02:23:01,769 --> 02:23:03,360
then the corresponding

3922
02:23:03,360 --> 02:23:04,590
commission from
that district.

3923
02:23:04,590 --> 02:23:06,790
That's right.

3924
02:23:10,640 --> 02:23:14,999
Question or is there a
second? I'll second.

3925
02:23:14,999 --> 02:23:16,335
Okay.

3926
02:23:16,335 --> 02:23:19,109
Report says that
married Palmer is

3927
02:23:19,109 --> 02:23:20,340
willing to be reappointed

3928
02:23:20,340 --> 02:23:22,184
as well if you want.

3929
02:23:22,184 --> 02:23:27,059
Wooed her in that motion
or motion for her.

3930
02:23:27,059 --> 02:23:28,590
I think we should have

3931
02:23:28,590 --> 02:23:29,700
a second motion
by saying it's

3932
02:23:29,700 --> 02:23:31,949
not till it she's not
till July, do we?

3933
02:23:31,949 --> 02:23:32,579
Good. Okay.

3934
02:23:32,579 --> 02:23:34,529
We could act
now. I suppose.

3935
02:23:34,529 --> 02:23:37,410
It wouldn't be until
the term expires.

3936
02:23:37,410 --> 02:23:38,819
So it's starting to have

3937
02:23:38,819 --> 02:23:39,480
plenty of time to

3938
02:23:39,480 --> 02:23:40,590
think about
what's going on,

3939
02:23:40,590 --> 02:23:42,404
this one and then
let's take that up

3940
02:23:42,404 --> 02:23:45,790
because it's well,

3941
02:23:46,220 --> 02:23:49,110
any further discussion
on this motion?

3942
02:23:49,110 --> 02:23:50,474
Okay.

3943
02:23:50,474 --> 02:23:51,854
All those in favor Aye.

3944
02:23:51,854 --> 02:23:52,335
Aye.

3945
02:23:52,335 --> 02:23:53,789
Aye. Opposed no.

3946
02:23:53,789 --> 02:23:54,840
Staining.

3947
02:23:54,840 --> 02:23:56,144
So it's unanimous.

3948
02:23:56,144 --> 02:23:57,749
And then as you
want to make

3949
02:23:57,749 --> 02:23:59,190
one more motion, I move.

3950
02:23:59,190 --> 02:24:01,050
We reappoint
married Palmer,

3951
02:24:01,050 --> 02:24:04,440
our citizen involvement
Advisory Committee.

3952
02:24:04,440 --> 02:24:06,030
Second.

3953
02:24:06,030 --> 02:24:07,600
Second.

3954
02:24:07,880 --> 02:24:10,269
Mitch.

3955
02:24:19,880 --> 02:24:26,350
Yeah. Maybe they
thought they were.

3956
02:24:50,840 --> 02:24:54,120
Why is that,
Mr. Mildenhall,

3957
02:24:54,120 --> 02:24:55,500
it wouldn't feel
that someone in

3958
02:24:55,500 --> 02:24:57,419
his district feel
the same way.

3959
02:24:57,419 --> 02:24:59,460
It's been an advertised in

3960
02:24:59,460 --> 02:25:02,924
this district and
this memorandum.

3961
02:25:02,924 --> 02:25:05,110
Available

3962
02:25:25,130 --> 02:25:27,459
light.

3963
02:25:33,760 --> 02:25:38,089
I do need to add that
we did have one request

3964
02:25:38,089 --> 02:25:39,590
about Mr. molten Howard's

3965
02:25:39,590 --> 02:25:42,290
seat from somebody
in that district,

3966
02:25:42,290 --> 02:25:43,100
in other words,
someone who

3967
02:25:43,100 --> 02:25:44,555
would have been eligible.

3968
02:25:44,555 --> 02:25:48,079
And he asked us what
he simply said,

3969
02:25:48,079 --> 02:25:51,379
that he was not
willing to put forth

3970
02:25:51,379 --> 02:25:53,569
his name if the
current occupant

3971
02:25:53,569 --> 02:25:54,740
was willing to consider

3972
02:25:54,740 --> 02:25:55,969
who would simply wait.

3973
02:25:55,969 --> 02:25:58,910
So he this person was
informed of it well in

3974
02:25:58,910 --> 02:26:01,310
advance and simply chose

3975
02:26:01,310 --> 02:26:04,649
to leave leave it
the way it was.

3976
02:26:09,220 --> 02:26:12,474
Okay. Well, we do
have a motion unless.

3977
02:26:12,474 --> 02:26:14,430
Makers want to
just withdraw it.

3978
02:26:14,430 --> 02:26:16,185
We can just read
withdraw it.

3979
02:26:16,185 --> 02:26:17,760
I wanted to be for
what the motion was,

3980
02:26:17,760 --> 02:26:21,734
whether or not a
separate one for her.

3981
02:26:21,734 --> 02:26:22,394
Yeah.

3982
02:26:22,394 --> 02:26:23,940
We'll we'll

3983
02:26:23,940 --> 02:26:24,600
just withdraw it and

3984
02:26:24,600 --> 02:26:25,350
leave it on the table and

3985
02:26:25,350 --> 02:26:26,279
let it go let
her go through

3986
02:26:26,279 --> 02:26:28,200
the same processes
everybody else.

3987
02:26:28,200 --> 02:26:29,710
Okay.

3988
02:26:31,700 --> 02:26:39,700
Jurisdiction status
reports, nights. Much.

3989
02:26:40,400 --> 02:26:42,540
Jimmy is still
haven't gotten

3990
02:26:42,540 --> 02:26:44,590
rid of those lava beds.

3991
02:26:46,670 --> 02:26:48,869
Always laugh when
I see that when I

3992
02:26:48,869 --> 02:26:50,370
read the storming
during industrial.

3993
02:26:50,370 --> 02:26:52,064
Yeah, that's right there.

3994
02:26:52,064 --> 02:26:56,654
I will never happen there.

3995
02:26:56,654 --> 02:26:58,710
In each case, they've been

3996
02:26:58,710 --> 02:27:00,090
wrapped into the county's

3997
02:27:00,090 --> 02:27:02,110
periodic review work.

3998
02:27:02,840 --> 02:27:04,949
We're trying to jumpstart

3999
02:27:04,949 --> 02:27:08,864
these things are part
of larger issues,

4000
02:27:08,864 --> 02:27:10,199
goal five and

4001
02:27:10,199 --> 02:27:12,780
Hood River County
and goal nine,

4002
02:27:12,780 --> 02:27:15,059
working lemon issues and

4003
02:27:15,059 --> 02:27:16,980
hematoma hematoma County.

4004
02:27:16,980 --> 02:27:19,200
So we hope to

4005
02:27:19,200 --> 02:27:21,765
have some movement
on the McNerney one.

4006
02:27:21,765 --> 02:27:23,669
We have a letter
from the county,

4007
02:27:23,669 --> 02:27:25,259
but we're going
to send Bryan

4008
02:27:25,259 --> 02:27:26,940
out with this new suit of

4009
02:27:26,940 --> 02:27:28,470
armor to see if we

4010
02:27:28,470 --> 02:27:30,554
can make a little
more progress. There.

4011
02:27:30,554 --> 02:27:31,889
A couple of
general comments.

4012
02:27:31,889 --> 02:27:33,675
We have no axis
where you today.

4013
02:27:33,675 --> 02:27:34,979
Normally, we would bring

4014
02:27:34,979 --> 02:27:36,704
it to you at this meeting.

4015
02:27:36,704 --> 02:27:40,560
Revision to the
schedule and

4016
02:27:40,560 --> 02:27:42,330
current schedule of
jurisdictions to

4017
02:27:42,330 --> 02:27:45,315
get noticed, it's expired.

4018
02:27:45,315 --> 02:27:47,820
We give notice
three times a year,

4019
02:27:47,820 --> 02:27:49,694
March, July in November,

4020
02:27:49,694 --> 02:27:52,559
but we have no juristic
contempt present

4021
02:27:52,559 --> 02:27:55,359
that are at their
max statute.

4022
02:27:55,359 --> 02:27:56,720
And we're going to use

4023
02:27:56,720 --> 02:27:58,039
the next few
months to talk

4024
02:27:58,039 --> 02:28:01,489
internally to rethink who

4025
02:28:01,489 --> 02:28:02,750
should be brought
into the process,

4026
02:28:02,750 --> 02:28:03,470
as you can tell by

4027
02:28:03,470 --> 02:28:05,749
the numbers that
are real high.

4028
02:28:05,749 --> 02:28:10,009
And I've been talking
isn't here now,

4029
02:28:10,009 --> 02:28:13,085
but in terms of current
workload, yeah.

4030
02:28:13,085 --> 02:28:14,690
Basically using

4031
02:28:14,690 --> 02:28:16,549
the new authority
that's been given to

4032
02:28:16,549 --> 02:28:19,010
us by the legislature

4033
02:28:19,010 --> 02:28:21,095
which will come to
you next month.

4034
02:28:21,095 --> 02:28:23,915
Amendment to the PR rule.

4035
02:28:23,915 --> 02:28:25,310
We're going to be looking

4036
02:28:25,310 --> 02:28:29,329
at Work Programs
very carefully and

4037
02:28:29,329 --> 02:28:31,819
seeing where we
frankly can have

4038
02:28:31,819 --> 02:28:33,324
jurisdictions if they're

4039
02:28:33,324 --> 02:28:35,359
agreeable to request,

4040
02:28:35,359 --> 02:28:37,040
having some tasks
come off of

4041
02:28:37,040 --> 02:28:39,725
their work programs to

4042
02:28:39,725 --> 02:28:43,519
actually get work
that is either not

4043
02:28:43,519 --> 02:28:44,750
required by rules or

4044
02:28:44,750 --> 02:28:46,790
statutes or is otherwise

4045
02:28:46,790 --> 02:28:47,944
not determined to be,

4046
02:28:47,944 --> 02:28:49,040
excuse me, if necessary,

4047
02:28:49,040 --> 02:28:49,999
by the local government.

4048
02:28:49,999 --> 02:28:52,820
Basically delete
those because we need

4049
02:28:52,820 --> 02:28:55,744
to get through
this backlog.

4050
02:28:55,744 --> 02:28:56,900
We have obviously an

4051
02:28:56,900 --> 02:28:58,339
increasing direction from

4052
02:28:58,339 --> 02:28:59,779
the governor's office to

4053
02:28:59,779 --> 02:29:01,535
the ER that you mentioned.

4054
02:29:01,535 --> 02:29:03,799
Mr. Harris, to

4055
02:29:03,799 --> 02:29:06,260
focus on fast-growing
communities.

4056
02:29:06,260 --> 02:29:08,540
We hope by reducing

4057
02:29:08,540 --> 02:29:12,110
workload and some of the
smaller communities,

4058
02:29:12,110 --> 02:29:14,315
we can focus
more attention

4059
02:29:14,315 --> 02:29:16,560
on the fast-growing ones.

4060
02:29:16,600 --> 02:29:20,580
Easy to say, R to do.

4061
02:29:21,350 --> 02:29:24,360
Because you are talking

4062
02:29:24,360 --> 02:29:26,639
and under the goal
14 discussion,

4063
02:29:26,639 --> 02:29:28,814
even smaller
size communities

4064
02:29:28,814 --> 02:29:30,899
have important questions
for them about

4065
02:29:30,899 --> 02:29:33,164
how they manage their
urban growth areas

4066
02:29:33,164 --> 02:29:35,190
will need to be
very sensitive

4067
02:29:35,190 --> 02:29:37,440
to the kinds of
issues that we're

4068
02:29:37,440 --> 02:29:40,869
seeing are now somewhat
less important.

4069
02:29:40,880 --> 02:29:42,989
I don't want to, dick
was going to talk

4070
02:29:42,989 --> 02:29:45,850
anymore about some of
these general themes.

4071
02:29:45,890 --> 02:29:47,760
We're going to try to

4072
02:29:47,760 --> 02:29:49,079
use a little interval we

4073
02:29:49,079 --> 02:29:50,129
have before we come

4074
02:29:50,129 --> 02:29:52,064
back to you with
a new schedule.

4075
02:29:52,064 --> 02:29:55,900
One county that's
still working.

4076
02:29:56,090 --> 02:29:58,380
I think it's Lake County

4077
02:29:58,380 --> 02:30:01,124
whose they've just
gotten noticed.

4078
02:30:01,124 --> 02:30:03,719
The workflow evaluation

4079
02:30:03,719 --> 02:30:05,760
of any developed locally.

4080
02:30:05,760 --> 02:30:07,379
Was Jefferson done?

4081
02:30:07,379 --> 02:30:10,350
Well, they're still
in one of the 2091 on

4082
02:30:10,350 --> 02:30:13,364
the 29th gym on page two,

4083
02:30:13,364 --> 02:30:15,630
the this is just a
curiosity question and

4084
02:30:15,630 --> 02:30:18,179
the 788 posts acknowledging
Plan Amendments,

4085
02:30:18,179 --> 02:30:20,654
the deal CD participation
numbers for 78.

4086
02:30:20,654 --> 02:30:22,200
I don't remember over

4087
02:30:22,200 --> 02:30:23,699
time with that
pattern has been

4088
02:30:23,699 --> 02:30:25,379
is that a big number
or a normal numbers

4089
02:30:25,379 --> 02:30:26,715
but normal isn't really.

4090
02:30:26,715 --> 02:30:29,699
So two-thirds of
those plan amendment,

4091
02:30:29,699 --> 02:30:31,680
you guys are one
way or another.

4092
02:30:31,680 --> 02:30:32,744
Have any comments?

4093
02:30:32,744 --> 02:30:35,579
Yeah. Well, we tried
to comment where we

4094
02:30:35,579 --> 02:30:36,989
can to give some not

4095
02:30:36,989 --> 02:30:38,490
only goal related
assistance,

4096
02:30:38,490 --> 02:30:38,969
but also

4097
02:30:38,969 --> 02:30:40,739
other assistance or
other information.

4098
02:30:40,739 --> 02:30:43,424
So but that's
not unduly high.

4099
02:30:43,424 --> 02:30:46,695
No, although
amendments occupy,

4100
02:30:46,695 --> 02:30:48,675
I know a lot of
our region into n,

4101
02:30:48,675 --> 02:30:50,624
That's the thing
that it's so

4102
02:30:50,624 --> 02:30:52,395
hard to program in.

4103
02:30:52,395 --> 02:30:53,790
I mean, it's one
thing to say, well,

4104
02:30:53,790 --> 02:30:55,440
to establish and you're
good to go off and

4105
02:30:55,440 --> 02:30:57,644
work on this work program.

4106
02:30:57,644 --> 02:31:00,330
And he or she is
planning on doing that.

4107
02:31:00,330 --> 02:31:02,340
And all of a sudden,
a plan amendment

4108
02:31:02,340 --> 02:31:04,259
comes in from one of
their jurisdiction.

4109
02:31:04,259 --> 02:31:06,690
And that has a time limit

4110
02:31:06,690 --> 02:31:09,130
that we have to
comment or not.

4111
02:31:09,170 --> 02:31:12,525
And in some cases it
raises important issues.

4112
02:31:12,525 --> 02:31:15,780
And that's the
unpredictability aspect

4113
02:31:15,780 --> 02:31:17,009
of a plan
amendment process.

4114
02:31:17,009 --> 02:31:18,794
It does allow local
government to make

4115
02:31:18,794 --> 02:31:21,044
changes that are needed,

4116
02:31:21,044 --> 02:31:22,424
or at least to respond to

4117
02:31:22,424 --> 02:31:23,640
applications that come in.

4118
02:31:23,640 --> 02:31:25,559
But when you suggest,

4119
02:31:25,559 --> 02:31:27,504
as I'm sure you do to
that local government,

4120
02:31:27,504 --> 02:31:28,649
they might want
to fold that

4121
02:31:28,649 --> 02:31:30,209
into their
periodic review.

4122
02:31:30,209 --> 02:31:31,409
What's the typical answer?

4123
02:31:31,409 --> 02:31:34,004
We don't have time,
immediate need.

4124
02:31:34,004 --> 02:31:35,130
It varies.

4125
02:31:35,130 --> 02:31:36,585
I think part of that.

4126
02:31:36,585 --> 02:31:38,654
How much time you want
to get into somebody?

4127
02:31:38,654 --> 02:31:39,314
I was just curious.

4128
02:31:39,314 --> 02:31:40,789
I mean, I'm sure that we

4129
02:31:40,789 --> 02:31:42,330
we certainly try
to direct them

4130
02:31:42,330 --> 02:31:44,430
to their work programs

4131
02:31:44,430 --> 02:31:45,630
and the work they
have underway.

4132
02:31:45,630 --> 02:31:47,369
In fact, we're meeting
this afternoon

4133
02:31:47,369 --> 02:31:50,550
internally about mattress.

4134
02:31:50,550 --> 02:31:54,210
There's a plan amendment
involving their UDP.

4135
02:31:54,210 --> 02:31:55,559
We're poised to give them

4136
02:31:55,559 --> 02:31:57,479
a grant to help them to

4137
02:31:57,479 --> 02:31:58,830
their peer review
work which

4138
02:31:58,830 --> 02:32:01,530
involves their urban
growth boundary.

4139
02:32:01,530 --> 02:32:04,455
Clearly it makes no sense

4140
02:32:04,455 --> 02:32:07,289
for them to act on
an application until

4141
02:32:07,289 --> 02:32:09,810
they've done this on
the long-range planning

4142
02:32:09,810 --> 02:32:10,949
and maybe done
the billable

4143
02:32:10,949 --> 02:32:12,945
lands analysis,
etcetera, etcetera.

4144
02:32:12,945 --> 02:32:15,030
But oftentimes, these are

4145
02:32:15,030 --> 02:32:17,850
not locally generated
applications.

4146
02:32:17,850 --> 02:32:18,899
They come from others

4147
02:32:18,899 --> 02:32:21,149
on the outside landowners.

4148
02:32:21,149 --> 02:32:24,150
So it sends a system
completely sideways.

4149
02:32:24,150 --> 02:32:25,590
If the commission were to

4150
02:32:25,590 --> 02:32:27,539
adopt a rule
provision that said,

4151
02:32:27,539 --> 02:32:29,505
most acknowledge
and plan amendment,

4152
02:32:29,505 --> 02:32:30,600
which is the subject of

4153
02:32:30,600 --> 02:32:31,965
an approved word
count program,

4154
02:32:31,965 --> 02:32:33,594
must be deferred.

4155
02:32:33,594 --> 02:32:35,655
The periodic with
neighboring hall,

4156
02:32:35,655 --> 02:32:37,815
maybe it's not
illegal items list.

4157
02:32:37,815 --> 02:32:39,449
I guess I'm wondering
if there's anything we

4158
02:32:39,449 --> 02:32:41,099
could be doing to
facilitate that.

4159
02:32:41,099 --> 02:32:42,690
We're chuckling
because we we

4160
02:32:42,690 --> 02:32:44,099
went at this
issue real hired

4161
02:32:44,099 --> 02:32:47,490
a few years ago when we
amended the PR rule.

4162
02:32:47,490 --> 02:32:49,259
And the question was,

4163
02:32:49,259 --> 02:32:51,795
we shouldn't allow
certain amendments,

4164
02:32:51,795 --> 02:32:53,415
land amendments
during that,

4165
02:32:53,415 --> 02:32:55,409
I remember this
work program

4166
02:32:55,409 --> 02:32:57,224
and we went back and
forth, back and forth.

4167
02:32:57,224 --> 02:33:00,090
Council Advisors.
The commission

4168
02:33:00,090 --> 02:33:02,174
probably doesn't
have the authority

4169
02:33:02,174 --> 02:33:06,870
to limit the effect
of jurisdiction of

4170
02:33:06,870 --> 02:33:08,580
the ladies borders or

4171
02:33:08,580 --> 02:33:11,944
issues relating
to these matters.

4172
02:33:11,944 --> 02:33:13,469
It's more complicated
than that,

4173
02:33:13,469 --> 02:33:15,359
but we basically don't

4174
02:33:15,359 --> 02:33:17,385
have much control legally.

4175
02:33:17,385 --> 02:33:19,875
To tell you a
local government,

4176
02:33:19,875 --> 02:33:21,609
you cannot act on it

4177
02:33:21,609 --> 02:33:23,429
right hand Amendment
makes sense.

4178
02:33:23,429 --> 02:33:25,380
All we have is called
jewelry and maybe

4179
02:33:25,380 --> 02:33:28,660
the leverage of a
grant agreement.

4180
02:33:29,090 --> 02:33:32,819
It raises the department
in the course

4181
02:33:32,819 --> 02:33:36,510
for you to be an
interesting issue.

4182
02:33:36,510 --> 02:33:39,900
How much of
planning activity

4183
02:33:39,900 --> 02:33:41,130
out there do we
try to force

4184
02:33:41,130 --> 02:33:43,050
it? Periodic review.

4185
02:33:43,050 --> 02:33:47,039
We have a hell of
a time keeping up,

4186
02:33:47,039 --> 02:33:48,809
making periodic review

4187
02:33:48,809 --> 02:33:49,830
of that kind
of experience,

4188
02:33:49,830 --> 02:33:51,975
we idealize about it.

4189
02:33:51,975 --> 02:33:54,450
If you have 110
jurisdictions

4190
02:33:54,450 --> 02:33:55,620
in periodic review,

4191
02:33:55,620 --> 02:33:56,580
recognizing that

4192
02:33:56,580 --> 02:33:57,869
local governments
have been cutting

4193
02:33:57,869 --> 02:33:59,220
back their planning
departments in

4194
02:33:59,220 --> 02:34:00,840
response to the
ballot measures.

4195
02:34:00,840 --> 02:34:03,300
And this agency has

4196
02:34:03,300 --> 02:34:04,620
a handful of
people that we

4197
02:34:04,620 --> 02:34:06,434
can devote a
periodic review.

4198
02:34:06,434 --> 02:34:09,120
It it seems to

4199
02:34:09,120 --> 02:34:10,920
suggest that we
not try to force

4200
02:34:10,920 --> 02:34:12,120
everything in a
periodic review

4201
02:34:12,120 --> 02:34:13,649
because we just can't have

4202
02:34:13,649 --> 02:34:14,910
a quality periodic review

4203
02:34:14,910 --> 02:34:17,499
with 110 of them going on.

4204
02:34:17,570 --> 02:34:21,749
We, through the Community
Solutions team,

4205
02:34:21,749 --> 02:34:25,019
that is with
other agencies.

4206
02:34:25,019 --> 02:34:28,469
Five other agencies are
figuring out a way to

4207
02:34:28,469 --> 02:34:30,030
make periodic review

4208
02:34:30,030 --> 02:34:32,430
a more meaningful
experience for us,

4209
02:34:32,430 --> 02:34:34,845
the other agencies and
local governments.

4210
02:34:34,845 --> 02:34:39,180
And it's hard to
do that unless

4211
02:34:39,180 --> 02:34:42,689
we focus our periodic
review efforts

4212
02:34:42,689 --> 02:34:44,535
where they are
most needed.

4213
02:34:44,535 --> 02:34:50,009
And that works against
trying to funnel

4214
02:34:50,009 --> 02:34:54,285
every important local
government decision

4215
02:34:54,285 --> 02:34:56,355
in a periodic review.

4216
02:34:56,355 --> 02:34:58,379
I think you can
see the tension

4217
02:34:58,379 --> 02:34:59,879
that we find ourselves in.

4218
02:34:59,879 --> 02:35:01,799
We are more inclined

4219
02:35:01,799 --> 02:35:05,695
now to try to limit
periodic review,

4220
02:35:05,695 --> 02:35:07,400
both in number of issues

4221
02:35:07,400 --> 02:35:08,690
and number of
jurisdictions going

4222
02:35:08,690 --> 02:35:10,444
into it so that
we can have

4223
02:35:10,444 --> 02:35:11,630
a better periodic review

4224
02:35:11,630 --> 02:35:13,579
experience in the areas

4225
02:35:13,579 --> 02:35:14,870
that are fastest
growing around

4226
02:35:14,870 --> 02:35:16,700
the state to
uncover some cases.

4227
02:35:16,700 --> 02:35:18,050
It goes the
other way that I

4228
02:35:18,050 --> 02:35:19,715
suggested you
urging them to

4229
02:35:19,715 --> 02:35:22,400
narrow their work
program so that they can

4230
02:35:22,400 --> 02:35:25,369
focus more on appropriately
on fewer issues.

4231
02:35:25,369 --> 02:35:27,320
I'll go to examine the
overflow is becomes

4232
02:35:27,320 --> 02:35:29,210
a technology plan
amendment. You pick it up.

4233
02:35:29,210 --> 02:35:30,560
On the other hand,
that example

4234
02:35:30,560 --> 02:35:34,010
is you get here in the
mid Valley that had

4235
02:35:34,010 --> 02:35:37,189
historic resources
as a goal

4236
02:35:37,189 --> 02:35:39,200
five issue on their
work program.

4237
02:35:39,200 --> 02:35:41,179
And they came to
us and they wanted

4238
02:35:41,179 --> 02:35:44,929
to get funding
for their work.

4239
02:35:44,929 --> 02:35:49,129
And we basically we're
saying no because of

4240
02:35:49,129 --> 02:35:51,065
the changes about

4241
02:35:51,065 --> 02:35:53,089
notice requirements
and so forth,

4242
02:35:53,089 --> 02:35:54,559
that we believe is no

4243
02:35:54,559 --> 02:35:56,419
longer an issue
that we really

4244
02:35:56,419 --> 02:35:58,700
should invest time
and effort in

4245
02:35:58,700 --> 02:36:01,160
and they should neither
if they want to,

4246
02:36:01,160 --> 02:36:01,880
that's another matter,

4247
02:36:01,880 --> 02:36:03,720
but they should
pay for them.

4248
02:36:04,240 --> 02:36:06,619
I love your choice
of words, Dick,

4249
02:36:06,619 --> 02:36:08,270
about periodic
review being

4250
02:36:08,270 --> 02:36:10,474
meaningful experience.

4251
02:36:10,474 --> 02:36:12,920
This is where I wish I

4252
02:36:12,920 --> 02:36:15,020
can see that discussion
and all candor.

4253
02:36:15,020 --> 02:36:16,100
I wish we were, you know,

4254
02:36:16,100 --> 02:36:19,339
about 15 months ahead
now and just had

4255
02:36:19,339 --> 02:36:21,650
adopted new direction and

4256
02:36:21,650 --> 02:36:24,184
guidance about urban
growth boundary.

4257
02:36:24,184 --> 02:36:26,929
It's easy to see because
now we're going to

4258
02:36:26,929 --> 02:36:28,549
have this whole thing

4259
02:36:28,549 --> 02:36:31,059
of waiting a
couple of years.

4260
02:36:31,059 --> 02:36:33,150
When in fact, right
now is when we

4261
02:36:33,150 --> 02:36:35,519
need we have the
the Qdot is coming

4262
02:36:35,519 --> 02:36:38,324
into being the
executive order that is

4263
02:36:38,324 --> 02:36:39,900
and other initiatives
to try to

4264
02:36:39,900 --> 02:36:42,135
focus on fast-growing
communities.

4265
02:36:42,135 --> 02:36:44,190
We would like to
have that kind of

4266
02:36:44,190 --> 02:36:45,840
instruction and guidance,
whatever it is,

4267
02:36:45,840 --> 02:36:47,070
it could be a
whole range of

4268
02:36:47,070 --> 02:36:49,334
things available
to direct us.

4269
02:36:49,334 --> 02:36:50,609
And then going back and

4270
02:36:50,609 --> 02:36:52,349
looking at these
work programs,

4271
02:36:52,349 --> 02:36:54,404
particularly professional
and communities,

4272
02:36:54,404 --> 02:36:59,264
just to connect things
to other things.

4273
02:36:59,264 --> 02:37:00,539
Your discussion
this morning

4274
02:37:00,539 --> 02:37:01,905
about annexation,

4275
02:37:01,905 --> 02:37:06,855
the testimony of
security that from

4276
02:37:06,855 --> 02:37:08,760
her organization is
point of view you can't

4277
02:37:08,760 --> 02:37:11,430
separate the
annexation stuff

4278
02:37:11,430 --> 02:37:13,454
from the public
involvement.

4279
02:37:13,454 --> 02:37:15,329
Certainly one
way of looking

4280
02:37:15,329 --> 02:37:19,094
at this is Corvallis.

4281
02:37:19,094 --> 02:37:20,999
Because of the annexation

4282
02:37:20,999 --> 02:37:24,390
is census that citizens

4283
02:37:24,390 --> 02:37:26,249
are have a heightened
awareness of

4284
02:37:26,249 --> 02:37:27,749
growth in that community

4285
02:37:27,749 --> 02:37:29,309
because of the
annexation step.

4286
02:37:29,309 --> 02:37:30,720
Well, we would love

4287
02:37:30,720 --> 02:37:32,849
citizens in these
communities to have

4288
02:37:32,849 --> 02:37:33,870
a heightened awareness of

4289
02:37:33,870 --> 02:37:34,949
planning because they're

4290
02:37:34,949 --> 02:37:38,200
involved in a high-quality
periodic review.

4291
02:37:38,420 --> 02:37:44,114
We can't do that
in 240 city.

4292
02:37:44,114 --> 02:37:46,620
Unfortunately, for a
lot of communities,

4293
02:37:46,620 --> 02:37:49,394
they haven't had the
kind of attention

4294
02:37:49,394 --> 02:37:51,030
that brings citizens into

4295
02:37:51,030 --> 02:37:53,924
the process in a
number of years.

4296
02:37:53,924 --> 02:37:56,865
And we haven't
been able to

4297
02:37:56,865 --> 02:37:59,444
provide them with the
opportunity to do that.

4298
02:37:59,444 --> 02:38:02,159
It's unfortunate,
and I think it's

4299
02:38:02,159 --> 02:38:05,939
true that some of
the interest in

4300
02:38:05,939 --> 02:38:08,700
annexation provisions
in some communities is

4301
02:38:08,700 --> 02:38:12,330
a response to failure by

4302
02:38:12,330 --> 02:38:13,680
that community or us

4303
02:38:13,680 --> 02:38:15,839
to empower that
community to

4304
02:38:15,839 --> 02:38:19,979
have a real look at that
community's future.

4305
02:38:19,979 --> 02:38:23,760
That would ideally happen
in periodic review.

4306
02:38:23,760 --> 02:38:28,680
Somehow, we've got to
figure out a way to

4307
02:38:28,680 --> 02:38:31,319
enable a community to have

4308
02:38:31,319 --> 02:38:35,049
that kind of exercise
with their citizens.

4309
02:38:35,660 --> 02:38:38,549
We don't really have
the resources to do

4310
02:38:38,549 --> 02:38:41,189
it with 110 community.

4311
02:38:41,189 --> 02:38:43,320
We we have the
resources to do it

4312
02:38:43,320 --> 02:38:44,430
with a handful of

4313
02:38:44,430 --> 02:38:45,720
communities around
the state that,

4314
02:38:45,720 --> 02:38:46,980
that, that kind of

4315
02:38:46,980 --> 02:38:49,500
exercise is very
time consuming

4316
02:38:49,500 --> 02:38:50,640
and it's very experienced.

4317
02:38:50,640 --> 02:38:52,875
And these guys who
make Robert knows

4318
02:38:52,875 --> 02:38:55,769
that when the 2040
process got underway,

4319
02:38:55,769 --> 02:38:58,485
metro in the
constituent communities

4320
02:38:58,485 --> 02:39:00,974
had a very involved
in a very,

4321
02:39:00,974 --> 02:39:02,190
very time-consuming and

4322
02:39:02,190 --> 02:39:03,719
expensive experience that

4323
02:39:03,719 --> 02:39:06,975
brought the region to
a level that even now,

4324
02:39:06,975 --> 02:39:08,370
because it isn't
sustained at

4325
02:39:08,370 --> 02:39:10,590
Metro is we're beginning

4326
02:39:10,590 --> 02:39:12,420
to see Milwaukee in

4327
02:39:12,420 --> 02:39:14,594
a couple of other, the
other communities.

4328
02:39:14,594 --> 02:39:16,424
It's amazing how far it,

4329
02:39:16,424 --> 02:39:19,459
how fast it
dissipates level

4330
02:39:19,459 --> 02:39:22,925
of awareness by citizens.

4331
02:39:22,925 --> 02:39:25,580
You have to sustain it
in order to keep it at

4332
02:39:25,580 --> 02:39:29,000
a level where people
feel they are involved.

4333
02:39:29,000 --> 02:39:30,844
You know what? That's too.

4334
02:39:30,844 --> 02:39:32,210
I made a comment to

4335
02:39:32,210 --> 02:39:34,085
build a minute ago.
Jim was talking.

4336
02:39:34,085 --> 02:39:34,969
I noticed that two of

4337
02:39:34,969 --> 02:39:36,290
the cities that
are on the list

4338
02:39:36,290 --> 02:39:38,614
for the next
notice category,

4339
02:39:38,614 --> 02:39:40,609
next round to
notice is is May

4340
02:39:40,609 --> 02:39:42,589
would park in
Johnson City.

4341
02:39:42,589 --> 02:39:43,924
And my comment was that

4342
02:39:43,924 --> 02:39:46,309
such a wonderfully
egalitarian system

4343
02:39:46,309 --> 02:39:47,360
and it always amazes me.

4344
02:39:47,360 --> 02:39:47,869
I mean, here we

4345
02:39:47,869 --> 02:39:50,029
are putting these
cities through

4346
02:39:50,029 --> 02:39:52,009
the situation that is

4347
02:39:52,009 --> 02:39:53,404
Sherwood would be at
and it goes back,

4348
02:39:53,404 --> 02:39:55,070
your point goes
to the point we

4349
02:39:55,070 --> 02:39:56,209
had discussion when I

4350
02:39:56,209 --> 02:39:57,484
think about cobra or even,

4351
02:39:57,484 --> 02:39:58,730
which is should we be

4352
02:39:58,730 --> 02:40:01,345
prioritizing
periodic review?

4353
02:40:01,345 --> 02:40:03,419
And then you raise this

4354
02:40:03,419 --> 02:40:05,190
then should we be taking

4355
02:40:05,190 --> 02:40:06,540
some communities
have made would

4356
02:40:06,540 --> 02:40:08,789
park and holding
them and maybe

4357
02:40:08,789 --> 02:40:09,599
we obviously are to

4358
02:40:09,599 --> 02:40:10,739
some degree
holding them to

4359
02:40:10,739 --> 02:40:12,720
a lesser task than some of

4360
02:40:12,720 --> 02:40:14,939
the studies that are
having those cases.

4361
02:40:14,939 --> 02:40:15,990
We're going to
urge that they

4362
02:40:15,990 --> 02:40:19,875
not decided to
go with you.

4363
02:40:19,875 --> 02:40:22,410
Well, they have to
do an evaluation

4364
02:40:22,410 --> 02:40:23,940
as a law requires,

4365
02:40:23,940 --> 02:40:25,799
but then the result of
that evaluation may

4366
02:40:25,799 --> 02:40:28,529
be list of things
to be done,

4367
02:40:28,529 --> 02:40:29,640
but maybe there
are other ways to

4368
02:40:29,640 --> 02:40:31,350
accomplish that and
going into prereqs,

4369
02:40:31,350 --> 02:40:32,700
and so that's one
way to do it.

4370
02:40:32,700 --> 02:40:33,809
But this point
is that going to

4371
02:40:33,809 --> 02:40:35,579
Mullin and lots of
other ones too.

4372
02:40:35,579 --> 02:40:36,074
Yeah.

4373
02:40:36,074 --> 02:40:37,229
Yeah. I mean, you
know, it the other

4374
02:40:37,229 --> 02:40:38,639
day Brett was out in

4375
02:40:38,639 --> 02:40:40,245
Lake County and Paisley

4376
02:40:40,245 --> 02:40:41,294
he was mean with Paisley.

4377
02:40:41,294 --> 02:40:43,545
And we can look
at that list.

4378
02:40:43,545 --> 02:40:45,689
Lats can actually
look when they would

4379
02:40:45,689 --> 02:40:48,494
park Mullin, Johnson
City bonanza.

4380
02:40:48,494 --> 02:40:50,580
I'm sure you guys are

4381
02:40:50,580 --> 02:40:52,544
in a more subjective way,

4382
02:40:52,544 --> 02:40:55,275
not imposing the
same requirement

4383
02:40:55,275 --> 02:40:57,299
on some of the small
cities width, right?

4384
02:40:57,299 --> 02:40:58,814
That's right.

4385
02:40:58,814 --> 02:41:01,200
Hand again, that
sort of thing.

4386
02:41:01,200 --> 02:41:02,879
That's more here than
other places, right?

4387
02:41:02,879 --> 02:41:05,370
That from your
catbird seat here,

4388
02:41:05,370 --> 02:41:08,280
you don't often
see that. We do.

4389
02:41:08,280 --> 02:41:09,480
We look at a list of

4390
02:41:09,480 --> 02:41:10,859
communities and
say, well golly,

4391
02:41:10,859 --> 02:41:12,060
this is a small community,

4392
02:41:12,060 --> 02:41:13,229
it's probably not growing.

4393
02:41:13,229 --> 02:41:17,280
And then all of a
sudden, some developer

4394
02:41:17,280 --> 02:41:19,005
comes to town shady code.

4395
02:41:19,005 --> 02:41:22,319
As an example. Not to
forget the I5 quarter.

4396
02:41:22,319 --> 02:41:24,269
It's a small community,

4397
02:41:24,269 --> 02:41:27,869
but close enough to
the I5 corridor.

4398
02:41:27,869 --> 02:41:29,699
Somebody comes
to town with

4399
02:41:29,699 --> 02:41:31,889
a proposal to
sub-divide and create

4400
02:41:31,889 --> 02:41:36,825
300 watts in a community
of 1,100 people.

4401
02:41:36,825 --> 02:41:39,750
And maybe six months

4402
02:41:39,750 --> 02:41:41,310
earlier we made the
decision that they

4403
02:41:41,310 --> 02:41:43,230
ought not be
doing too much in

4404
02:41:43,230 --> 02:41:47,114
periodic review because
sleepy JD cove,

4405
02:41:47,114 --> 02:41:51,940
the world changes out
there fairly quickly.

4406
02:41:51,980 --> 02:41:54,840
We have to remain
we have to retain

4407
02:41:54,840 --> 02:42:00,539
our flexibility to
respond to dissipated.

4408
02:42:00,539 --> 02:42:02,429
It's not just so simple

4409
02:42:02,429 --> 02:42:03,929
as looking at the list

4410
02:42:03,929 --> 02:42:05,129
of communities and saying,

4411
02:42:05,129 --> 02:42:06,299
Well, here's a
community that's only

4412
02:42:06,299 --> 02:42:08,639
1,000 and let's just well,

4413
02:42:08,639 --> 02:42:11,564
when you bypass and
they elect to bypass,

4414
02:42:11,564 --> 02:42:12,899
did they fall into

4415
02:42:12,899 --> 02:42:14,684
another seven-year
cycle or can you

4416
02:42:14,684 --> 02:42:15,719
come back in a year

4417
02:42:15,719 --> 02:42:18,705
and then I don't know
the process well.

4418
02:42:18,705 --> 02:42:21,750
So you've got four years

4419
02:42:21,750 --> 02:42:22,829
before you could ask them

4420
02:42:22,829 --> 02:42:24,940
to come back to
the process.

4421
02:42:25,160 --> 02:42:28,019
Less than ME would
park is totally

4422
02:42:28,019 --> 02:42:30,450
built in Johnson City,

4423
02:42:30,450 --> 02:42:31,829
is in part why putting

4424
02:42:31,829 --> 02:42:34,499
them through the
process at all?

4425
02:42:34,499 --> 02:42:35,669
Well,

4426
02:42:35,669 --> 02:42:38,084
that's a statutory
change, commissioner.

4427
02:42:38,084 --> 02:42:39,965
Do it basically
exempt them?

4428
02:42:39,965 --> 02:42:43,319
I'm getting notice what
I said a moment ago.

4429
02:42:43,319 --> 02:42:44,939
We can actually
get them to

4430
02:42:44,939 --> 02:42:46,560
conclude that there
is no need to

4431
02:42:46,560 --> 02:42:48,899
have a work program and we

4432
02:42:48,899 --> 02:42:51,480
would compress
the evaluation.

4433
02:42:51,480 --> 02:42:53,189
So you're right.
I I used to be

4434
02:42:53,189 --> 02:42:53,969
a field rep for me

4435
02:42:53,969 --> 02:42:55,140
what Barack and I
know it's there.

4436
02:42:55,140 --> 02:42:56,489
It hasn't changed
since 25,

4437
02:42:56,489 --> 02:42:57,629
but then indicts analysis,

4438
02:42:57,629 --> 02:42:59,009
the casino
arrives the year

4439
02:42:59,009 --> 02:43:00,390
after they agree to her.

4440
02:43:00,390 --> 02:43:01,829
And then suddenly
we've got three years,

4441
02:43:01,829 --> 02:43:03,989
but mechano histamine,
that's another one.

4442
02:43:03,989 --> 02:43:04,800
And they get caught up in

4443
02:43:04,800 --> 02:43:05,774
the article and awards.

4444
02:43:05,774 --> 02:43:08,295
They have these foster
eyes about a UDP,

4445
02:43:08,295 --> 02:43:10,690
square miles or some

4446
02:43:10,970 --> 02:43:13,605
and for whatever reasons.

4447
02:43:13,605 --> 02:43:15,239
And so Brent was

4448
02:43:15,239 --> 02:43:16,739
out there the other
night and stare down

4449
02:43:16,739 --> 02:43:18,660
that city council said

4450
02:43:18,660 --> 02:43:20,579
many other conversations.

4451
02:43:20,579 --> 02:43:21,749
He might be
equivocal and say,

4452
02:43:21,749 --> 02:43:23,789
well, we'll look at the
US will consider it.

4453
02:43:23,789 --> 02:43:26,280
But he just flat
out said No way.

4454
02:43:26,280 --> 02:43:28,469
That's what we're
having to do is just

4455
02:43:28,469 --> 02:43:30,870
to inform some of these
local governments and

4456
02:43:30,870 --> 02:43:32,909
heavy grandiose ideas

4457
02:43:32,909 --> 02:43:34,049
that they can
just go ahead

4458
02:43:34,049 --> 02:43:36,780
and plan the heck out of

4459
02:43:36,780 --> 02:43:38,039
the landscape in terms of

4460
02:43:38,039 --> 02:43:39,840
their own little
community.

4461
02:43:39,840 --> 02:43:43,229
And again,

4462
02:43:43,229 --> 02:43:45,060
kilo Quinn can decide
to go forward.

4463
02:43:45,060 --> 02:43:46,290
And we would hope
that they would

4464
02:43:46,290 --> 02:43:48,810
not getting to

4465
02:43:48,810 --> 02:43:50,760
try to get them
local governments

4466
02:43:50,760 --> 02:43:53,355
to realize that
there are limits.

4467
02:43:53,355 --> 02:43:56,085
But as Jim said, I just
want to repeat it.

4468
02:43:56,085 --> 02:43:58,230
We are approaching
this from

4469
02:43:58,230 --> 02:44:00,570
a strategic sense with

4470
02:44:00,570 --> 02:44:03,135
the object of gathering

4471
02:44:03,135 --> 02:44:05,594
resources within
the department.

4472
02:44:05,594 --> 02:44:06,839
And we're gonna be
looking to other

4473
02:44:06,839 --> 02:44:07,949
agencies to do this too,

4474
02:44:07,949 --> 02:44:10,050
to devote to the

4475
02:44:10,050 --> 02:44:12,210
fastest-growing
jurisdictions

4476
02:44:12,210 --> 02:44:13,229
that are facing the most

4477
02:44:13,229 --> 02:44:15,375
significant
growth problems.

4478
02:44:15,375 --> 02:44:19,515
And it's really tough.

4479
02:44:19,515 --> 02:44:22,469
What we're trying to
do it result is going

4480
02:44:22,469 --> 02:44:25,439
to be some jurisdictions
out there,

4481
02:44:25,439 --> 02:44:27,330
smaller, slower growing or

4482
02:44:27,330 --> 02:44:28,874
not growing at all.

4483
02:44:28,874 --> 02:44:30,779
We will work with them to

4484
02:44:30,779 --> 02:44:32,294
trim back there
periodically,

4485
02:44:32,294 --> 02:44:35,070
their existing periodic
review work tasks

4486
02:44:35,070 --> 02:44:36,720
in their programs get get

4487
02:44:36,720 --> 02:44:38,920
them to agree
to drop them.

4488
02:44:40,280 --> 02:44:42,819
Tough work.

4489
02:44:43,430 --> 02:44:45,765
I had a question
on your report.

4490
02:44:45,765 --> 02:44:49,004
Is this like on this
section three on posts,

4491
02:44:49,004 --> 02:44:50,760
posted Management
Plan Amendments,

4492
02:44:50,760 --> 02:44:51,719
does that zeros out

4493
02:44:51,719 --> 02:44:52,800
at the end of
the year now,

4494
02:44:52,800 --> 02:44:55,230
if we've got a
report for January,

4495
02:44:55,230 --> 02:44:57,315
it would start
January 1, 98.

4496
02:44:57,315 --> 02:44:58,380
And those those those

4497
02:44:58,380 --> 02:45:00,225
amounts would
be a lot less.

4498
02:45:00,225 --> 02:45:01,770
You run a year-to-year and

4499
02:45:01,770 --> 02:45:03,044
zero it out at the
end of the year.

4500
02:45:03,044 --> 02:45:05,235
I have here, commissioners,
Is it correct?

4501
02:45:05,235 --> 02:45:07,499
Yes. So you have a twelv
month report here.

4502
02:45:07,499 --> 02:45:08,549
Who's this is a
first meeting

4503
02:45:08,549 --> 02:45:11,024
beyond the
exploration of 97.

4504
02:45:11,024 --> 02:45:13,289
Next month, you'll start

4505
02:45:13,289 --> 02:45:15,059
off with much
smaller numbers.

4506
02:45:15,059 --> 02:45:16,860
Were an annual report.

4507
02:45:16,860 --> 02:45:23,950
These numbers
are about Hey,

4508
02:45:24,050 --> 02:45:26,655
director's report.

4509
02:45:26,655 --> 02:45:29,579
I know you want to
get finished up here.

4510
02:45:29,579 --> 02:45:31,545
So I'm not going
to touch upon

4511
02:45:31,545 --> 02:45:33,299
anything is actually in

4512
02:45:33,299 --> 02:45:35,129
the written report
unless you asked me

4513
02:45:35,129 --> 02:45:36,300
about it and then
he wants to hear

4514
02:45:36,300 --> 02:45:37,529
about those two
court cases.

4515
02:45:37,529 --> 02:45:41,310
And Chairman,

4516
02:45:41,310 --> 02:45:42,660
I do have reported

4517
02:45:42,660 --> 02:45:43,889
under commissioners
and then oh,

4518
02:45:43,889 --> 02:45:45,494
it might be happy
to have this

4519
02:45:45,494 --> 02:45:47,924
come in first,
but I'm sorry.

4520
02:45:47,924 --> 02:45:49,200
Well, I need to

4521
02:45:49,200 --> 02:45:51,269
report on the fact that
I've been appointed

4522
02:45:51,269 --> 02:45:53,400
as the LCD see
representative on

4523
02:45:53,400 --> 02:45:56,309
the joint land
Joint Task Force on

4524
02:45:56,309 --> 02:45:58,439
landslides and
public safety

4525
02:45:58,439 --> 02:46:00,779
held our first meeting
and you should know a

4526
02:46:00,779 --> 02:46:01,859
little bit more about that

4527
02:46:01,859 --> 02:46:03,285
because that's
eventually going to

4528
02:46:03,285 --> 02:46:05,280
involve work on
this commission

4529
02:46:05,280 --> 02:46:06,660
probably throughout
the day.

4530
02:46:06,660 --> 02:46:08,865
Some of the things
that we're doing

4531
02:46:08,865 --> 02:46:12,029
to see that the
development that comes

4532
02:46:12,029 --> 02:46:14,639
in is prevented on

4533
02:46:14,639 --> 02:46:16,169
those areas that
are identified

4534
02:46:16,169 --> 02:46:18,285
as being in a hazard area.

4535
02:46:18,285 --> 02:46:19,950
This came about because

4536
02:46:19,950 --> 02:46:21,419
of the Senate bill 12,

4537
02:46:21,419 --> 02:46:23,879
11, which the legislature

4538
02:46:23,879 --> 02:46:25,425
passed and to do things,

4539
02:46:25,425 --> 02:46:26,670
it gave

4540
02:46:26,670 --> 02:46:30,225
the Department of
Forestry the problem of

4541
02:46:30,225 --> 02:46:32,024
looking at each area

4542
02:46:32,024 --> 02:46:33,239
out there for logging was

4543
02:46:33,239 --> 02:46:34,710
being proposed to see

4544
02:46:34,710 --> 02:46:36,405
whether your
proposed a hazard.

4545
02:46:36,405 --> 02:46:37,920
So currently now they have

4546
02:46:37,920 --> 02:46:42,929
a process in
place to do that.

4547
02:46:42,929 --> 02:46:44,309
And they've turned
some people down.

4548
02:46:44,309 --> 02:46:45,480
And I think
Celeste has been

4549
02:46:45,480 --> 02:46:47,175
involved in some of
these where they

4550
02:46:47,175 --> 02:46:50,024
say This is a
taking because of

4551
02:46:50,024 --> 02:46:51,089
the fact they're
not allowed

4552
02:46:51,089 --> 02:46:53,580
to log on timberland.

4553
02:46:53,580 --> 02:46:56,820
But they consider
to be a problem.

4554
02:46:56,820 --> 02:46:59,159
Well, anyway,

4555
02:46:59,159 --> 02:47:00,809
it's gonna be a very
contentious issue

4556
02:47:00,809 --> 02:47:02,760
because it involves
this taking issue and

4557
02:47:02,760 --> 02:47:03,839
how much can we do

4558
02:47:03,839 --> 02:47:05,114
and all this
kind of thing.

4559
02:47:05,114 --> 02:47:06,269
I should point out that

4560
02:47:06,269 --> 02:47:07,725
the members of the task,

4561
02:47:07,725 --> 02:47:09,795
there are four from
the legislature's

4562
02:47:09,795 --> 02:47:12,719
Senator Ken tie Torno.

4563
02:47:12,719 --> 02:47:14,654
Those senators and
representatives,

4564
02:47:14,654 --> 02:47:16,814
Jim Walsh and Cynthia.

4565
02:47:16,814 --> 02:47:18,480
Cynthia is one of

4566
02:47:18,480 --> 02:47:20,759
these term limited people
that's probably not

4567
02:47:20,759 --> 02:47:23,069
gonna be in the legislature
next time as it

4568
02:47:23,069 --> 02:47:25,020
kinda has also announced

4569
02:47:25,020 --> 02:47:26,355
that he's not rerunning.

4570
02:47:26,355 --> 02:47:28,739
That has nothing to do
with this except for

4571
02:47:28,739 --> 02:47:31,275
the fact that the wound

4572
02:47:31,275 --> 02:47:33,105
indicated at our
first meeting

4573
02:47:33,105 --> 02:47:34,259
that she would
want to look

4574
02:47:34,259 --> 02:47:37,529
at the landslide problem
in the urban areas.

4575
02:47:37,529 --> 02:47:40,649
So it may be that this
will stretch beyond

4576
02:47:40,649 --> 02:47:42,210
the logging area in

4577
02:47:42,210 --> 02:47:43,845
the problems
we have there.

4578
02:47:43,845 --> 02:47:46,170
Now, we have
the commissions

4579
02:47:46,170 --> 02:47:48,120
of transportation,
forestry,

4580
02:47:48,120 --> 02:47:49,590
and LCD see commissioners

4581
02:47:49,590 --> 02:47:50,910
from each one
of those three,

4582
02:47:50,910 --> 02:47:54,750
we have a staff person
from the gummy.

4583
02:47:54,750 --> 02:47:56,130
And then we have
Keith cubic

4584
02:47:56,130 --> 02:47:57,464
representing local Grb2.

4585
02:47:57,464 --> 02:47:59,745
And this is very
appropriate because the,

4586
02:47:59,745 --> 02:48:01,710
I think it's nine
people that were killed

4587
02:48:01,710 --> 02:48:05,760
in landslides back
in the 1960s,

4588
02:48:05,760 --> 02:48:08,099
storms were all
done in his area.

4589
02:48:08,099 --> 02:48:09,270
So our first meeting was

4590
02:48:09,270 --> 02:48:10,560
down there and part of

4591
02:48:10,560 --> 02:48:11,939
the meeting was going out

4592
02:48:11,939 --> 02:48:13,634
and looking at
landslide or isn't

4593
02:48:13,634 --> 02:48:14,910
Getting a feel for what

4594
02:48:14,910 --> 02:48:16,800
it looks like
on the ground.

4595
02:48:16,800 --> 02:48:19,619
Only thing that we've
really done yet is to

4596
02:48:19,619 --> 02:48:22,035
elect the chair
of that meeting.

4597
02:48:22,035 --> 02:48:24,389
I was very pleased to
get the electron and

4598
02:48:24,389 --> 02:48:27,870
the person that
I had promoted

4599
02:48:27,870 --> 02:48:30,839
and recommended by Carol

4600
02:48:30,839 --> 02:48:32,130
St. Louis and I
thought were really

4601
02:48:32,130 --> 02:48:33,960
ought to know that she had

4602
02:48:33,960 --> 02:48:35,819
worked for her and
I was a little

4603
02:48:35,819 --> 02:48:36,810
bit reluctant to put her

4604
02:48:36,810 --> 02:48:37,979
forward when I wasn't

4605
02:48:37,979 --> 02:48:38,789
sure that she was

4606
02:48:38,789 --> 02:48:40,140
interested in anything
like then she says,

4607
02:48:40,140 --> 02:48:42,209
well, she wouldn't
know, maybe she would.

4608
02:48:42,209 --> 02:48:46,049
So anyway, she is now

4609
02:48:46,049 --> 02:48:48,029
chair and has not
functioned because

4610
02:48:48,029 --> 02:48:49,049
she was just elected that

4611
02:48:49,049 --> 02:48:50,099
this one meeting
we've had,

4612
02:48:50,099 --> 02:48:52,124
we won't be
meeting again on

4613
02:48:52,124 --> 02:48:54,015
the first Monday of

4614
02:48:54,015 --> 02:48:55,830
the next three
months anyway.

4615
02:48:55,830 --> 02:48:57,510
And we'll be looking
at all this.

4616
02:48:57,510 --> 02:48:58,799
The forestry
department has

4617
02:48:58,799 --> 02:49:02,190
a major study going
on to give us some

4618
02:49:02,190 --> 02:49:05,340
studying what's happened
so far and what

4619
02:49:05,340 --> 02:49:06,840
I think the direction

4620
02:49:06,840 --> 02:49:08,655
that they would
recommend that we go.

4621
02:49:08,655 --> 02:49:10,710
I think that isn't
available yet.

4622
02:49:10,710 --> 02:49:12,975
I think it's January 29th.

4623
02:49:12,975 --> 02:49:14,340
Study comes out.

4624
02:49:14,340 --> 02:49:15,675
Anyway.

4625
02:49:15,675 --> 02:49:17,789
If you have concerns about

4626
02:49:17,789 --> 02:49:20,549
the landslide issue and

4627
02:49:20,549 --> 02:49:21,810
the fact that it
may come back and

4628
02:49:21,810 --> 02:49:24,000
involve work on the part
of this commission.

4629
02:49:24,000 --> 02:49:26,070
Why keep it and
I'll keep you

4630
02:49:26,070 --> 02:49:27,525
informed if there's things

4631
02:49:27,525 --> 02:49:28,739
I think you should
know about.

4632
02:49:28,739 --> 02:49:31,780
But anyway, that's
what's taking place.

4633
02:49:33,260 --> 02:49:35,580
Other commissioner
reports.

4634
02:49:35,580 --> 02:49:39,585
I have a question.

4635
02:49:39,585 --> 02:49:41,250
Sure. Do I do it now or

4636
02:49:41,250 --> 02:49:47,610
under other where? Where?

4637
02:49:47,610 --> 02:49:50,280
In our goals and
rules and so on.

4638
02:49:50,280 --> 02:49:55,020
Metrohealth. It's
in the collection

4639
02:49:55,020 --> 02:49:57,000
of rules and it's
a golden rule,

4640
02:49:57,000 --> 02:49:59,115
but it's, this goes down.

4641
02:49:59,115 --> 02:50:01,050
I was going to
raise them under

4642
02:50:01,050 --> 02:50:03,720
the discussion about
0 14 housing is

4643
02:50:03,720 --> 02:50:06,000
mentioned because
we're running

4644
02:50:06,000 --> 02:50:07,755
into situations and in

4645
02:50:07,755 --> 02:50:10,485
the metro area where

4646
02:50:10,485 --> 02:50:12,749
Walton and be written e.g.

4647
02:50:12,749 --> 02:50:15,779
their housing stock
is 52% apartment.

4648
02:50:15,779 --> 02:50:18,959
So under the metro
housing or do

4649
02:50:18,959 --> 02:50:20,159
they still then on

4650
02:50:20,159 --> 02:50:21,749
their vacant land
for residential,

4651
02:50:21,749 --> 02:50:24,929
have to have 50% of

4652
02:50:24,929 --> 02:50:28,544
it available for
apartments or the other.

4653
02:50:28,544 --> 02:50:29,985
When are you done?

4654
02:50:29,985 --> 02:50:32,669
That's the question
that's being asked.

4655
02:50:32,669 --> 02:50:35,955
Or do you have to maintain
the mix over time?

4656
02:50:35,955 --> 02:50:38,399
We have we have
some areas e.g.

4657
02:50:38,399 --> 02:50:40,810
that are up in
the seventies.

4658
02:50:41,330 --> 02:50:44,099
We want that in
certain areas,

4659
02:50:44,099 --> 02:50:46,544
but other areas
we don't want.

4660
02:50:46,544 --> 02:50:51,734
Have you ever discussed
that buildup?

4661
02:50:51,734 --> 02:50:53,760
So we have all that we

4662
02:50:53,760 --> 02:51:00,794
require density. Well,
there are two things.

4663
02:51:00,794 --> 02:51:03,749
One has to do

4664
02:51:03,749 --> 02:51:04,619
with the multiple,

4665
02:51:04,619 --> 02:51:06,915
multifamily,
single-family.

4666
02:51:06,915 --> 02:51:10,199
And it aims, I recall,

4667
02:51:10,199 --> 02:51:14,265
it aims at what's
actually built,

4668
02:51:14,265 --> 02:51:16,500
but what you provide

4669
02:51:16,500 --> 02:51:19,529
for in your vacant,
buildable land,

4670
02:51:19,529 --> 02:51:22,665
as long as B written

4671
02:51:22,665 --> 02:51:24,509
satisfies that

4672
02:51:24,509 --> 02:51:28,320
requirement for it's
buildable land.

4673
02:51:28,320 --> 02:51:32,355
As it approaches
build-out, it's safe.

4674
02:51:32,355 --> 02:51:34,829
I mean, it doesn't
have again,

4675
02:51:34,829 --> 02:51:36,810
the requirement isn't that

4676
02:51:36,810 --> 02:51:40,020
it's actual building stock

4677
02:51:40,020 --> 02:51:41,610
satisfy the requirement.

4678
02:51:41,610 --> 02:51:43,155
It's what it's
buildable land.

4679
02:51:43,155 --> 02:51:44,369
And obviously over time

4680
02:51:44,369 --> 02:51:45,389
It's bootable land keeps

4681
02:51:45,389 --> 02:51:48,430
getting smaller and
smaller and smaller.

4682
02:51:49,880 --> 02:51:54,824
Keeps getting higher
and higher and higher.

4683
02:51:54,824 --> 02:51:57,750
I don't know if
they've got 100 acres

4684
02:51:57,750 --> 02:51:59,729
left under that
thought and I

4685
02:51:59,729 --> 02:52:00,840
don't I didn't recall

4686
02:52:00,840 --> 02:52:01,800
that it was not stocked,

4687
02:52:01,800 --> 02:52:03,884
but rather what's
map is allowed.

4688
02:52:03,884 --> 02:52:05,310
This is what you I
think you're saying.

4689
02:52:05,310 --> 02:52:06,929
They've got 100
acres left.

4690
02:52:06,929 --> 02:52:08,760
The question is, are

4691
02:52:08,760 --> 02:52:10,680
they do they
have to maintain

4692
02:52:10,680 --> 02:52:14,609
that if that mix
over 100 acres?

4693
02:52:14,609 --> 02:52:15,989
I think the answer
is probably yes,

4694
02:52:15,989 --> 02:52:17,790
but they can mean
they can meet

4695
02:52:17,790 --> 02:52:20,145
that test by
simply allowing

4696
02:52:20,145 --> 02:52:22,739
both multifamily
or you believe in

4697
02:52:22,739 --> 02:52:26,175
single-family on
that hundred acres.

4698
02:52:26,175 --> 02:52:27,990
But why did they
need that for

4699
02:52:27,990 --> 02:52:30,464
industrial or commercial
or something else?

4700
02:52:30,464 --> 02:52:32,924
Well, then I think
it falls out of,

4701
02:52:32,924 --> 02:52:34,050
then it's no
longer needed.

4702
02:52:34,050 --> 02:52:35,850
Housing doesn't
map that way

4703
02:52:35,850 --> 02:52:36,630
at all and it falls out

4704
02:52:36,630 --> 02:52:37,769
of the mix altogether.

4705
02:52:37,769 --> 02:52:40,409
That's a lots of
separate held-out.

4706
02:52:40,409 --> 02:52:42,704
They got to shift
the use categories.

4707
02:52:42,704 --> 02:52:43,784
Yeah.

4708
02:52:43,784 --> 02:52:46,965
I thought I already had
it already resolved.

4709
02:52:46,965 --> 02:52:50,819
We can just
learn from that.

4710
02:52:50,819 --> 02:52:53,490
I'm not good enough
on that rule to

4711
02:52:53,490 --> 02:52:54,869
give you an off-the-cuff

4712
02:52:54,869 --> 02:52:56,070
answer to your question,

4713
02:52:56,070 --> 02:52:57,089
but it's something that we

4714
02:52:57,089 --> 02:52:59,460
could inquire with be

4715
02:52:59,460 --> 02:53:08,295
written in metro bill.

4716
02:53:08,295 --> 02:53:10,140
That a small report from

4717
02:53:10,140 --> 02:53:13,185
my district during my
confirmation hearing,

4718
02:53:13,185 --> 02:53:14,970
I ran up against
John Chandler

4719
02:53:14,970 --> 02:53:16,320
because he thought
my zeal for

4720
02:53:16,320 --> 02:53:18,374
farmland protection
would override

4721
02:53:18,374 --> 02:53:20,655
the expansion
and Yuji bees.

4722
02:53:20,655 --> 02:53:22,740
And the one interesting
note now from

4723
02:53:22,740 --> 02:53:25,170
my district is that
the city of Culver,

4724
02:53:25,170 --> 02:53:27,059
he said during my
confirmation hearing

4725
02:53:27,059 --> 02:53:28,140
and he said if you

4726
02:53:28,140 --> 02:53:29,579
understand color
that I'm probably

4727
02:53:29,579 --> 02:53:31,545
it so I'll drop
my objections.

4728
02:53:31,545 --> 02:53:36,435
And now now that he's
dropped my objects,

4729
02:53:36,435 --> 02:53:39,615
it'd be his objection,
objections to me.

4730
02:53:39,615 --> 02:53:42,000
It's kinda interesting
that the town he was

4731
02:53:42,000 --> 02:53:44,484
from cholera now is
going to have this.

4732
02:53:44,484 --> 02:53:46,379
They're they're gonna
put on the ballot,

4733
02:53:46,379 --> 02:53:49,694
the boat, the boat
annexation vote.

4734
02:53:49,694 --> 02:53:53,819
So in this instance

4735
02:53:53,819 --> 02:53:55,469
I culverts totally
surrounded by

4736
02:53:55,469 --> 02:53:56,790
high-value farmland and I

4737
02:53:56,790 --> 02:53:58,110
don't want to see
Kohlberg row either,

4738
02:53:58,110 --> 02:54:03,029
so I don't know.
I know that yet.

4739
02:54:03,029 --> 02:54:05,560
I don't know if
John knows admin.

4740
02:54:05,690 --> 02:54:07,830
World, Sandler and

4741
02:54:07,830 --> 02:54:11,409
memorial development,
strange bedfellows.

4742
02:54:12,350 --> 02:54:15,315
Maybe it's worth noting.

4743
02:54:15,315 --> 02:54:19,454
I think you've had this
discussion before,

4744
02:54:19,454 --> 02:54:21,689
but under the population

4745
02:54:21,689 --> 02:54:24,209
coordination responsibilities
and counties,

4746
02:54:24,209 --> 02:54:27,130
have you ever seen
being one of them?

4747
02:54:27,230 --> 02:54:30,839
Jefferson County,
let's say it's facing

4748
02:54:30,839 --> 02:54:34,065
50,000 person growth over

4749
02:54:34,065 --> 02:54:35,925
a period of 20 years.

4750
02:54:35,925 --> 02:54:39,465
Jefferson County could
decide that little

4751
02:54:39,465 --> 02:54:43,530
or none of that would
be allocated to Culver.

4752
02:54:43,530 --> 02:54:46,949
And instead,
Redmond, excuse me,

4753
02:54:46,949 --> 02:54:49,620
Redmond industry,
it's candy, Madras.

4754
02:54:49,620 --> 02:54:52,035
There were very few cities

4755
02:54:52,035 --> 02:54:54,134
in Jefferson County.

4756
02:54:54,134 --> 02:54:55,709
They could decide
that all of its

4757
02:54:55,709 --> 02:54:57,705
couldn't go to Madras.

4758
02:54:57,705 --> 02:55:03,014
And none of it, too cover.

4759
02:55:03,014 --> 02:55:06,099
Counties could make
that allocation.

4760
02:55:06,140 --> 02:55:08,249
So they could get
what does that

4761
02:55:08,249 --> 02:55:09,360
follow that thought
out of the county?

4762
02:55:09,360 --> 02:55:10,710
Does that what
does it mean

4763
02:55:10,710 --> 02:55:12,119
for our program in terms

4764
02:55:12,119 --> 02:55:14,940
of their obligations
to mean 0,

4765
02:55:14,940 --> 02:55:17,924
14 factors 1.2, e.g.

4766
02:55:17,924 --> 02:55:20,309
the knee. When
that happens and I

4767
02:55:20,309 --> 02:55:21,810
know we've talked about it

4768
02:55:21,810 --> 02:55:23,400
and not to point fingers,

4769
02:55:23,400 --> 02:55:24,989
but Randy's got a
problem like that.

4770
02:55:24,989 --> 02:55:28,019
And St. Paul, I know we

4771
02:55:28,019 --> 02:55:30,180
discussed with
the possibility

4772
02:55:30,180 --> 02:55:31,094
that account you
could do that.

4773
02:55:31,094 --> 02:55:33,520
What happens then
when that happens?

4774
02:55:34,130 --> 02:55:36,359
What does that
mean that they're

4775
02:55:36,359 --> 02:55:38,249
entitled The show
up and periodic

4776
02:55:38,249 --> 02:55:40,290
review and because of
that county action and

4777
02:55:40,290 --> 02:55:42,359
the allocation away from
their jurisdiction,

4778
02:55:42,359 --> 02:55:44,294
they could either
sees it up.

4779
02:55:44,294 --> 02:55:45,840
I mean, they're
20-year supply under

4780
02:55:45,840 --> 02:55:47,354
27.9, whatever.

4781
02:55:47,354 --> 02:55:48,645
We're going to go 14.

4782
02:55:48,645 --> 02:55:51,344
Does it just well,

4783
02:55:51,344 --> 02:55:53,730
is it that clean
the allocation

4784
02:55:53,730 --> 02:55:56,594
by Jefferson
County decision?

4785
02:55:56,594 --> 02:55:58,200
Jefferson County
says, Alright,

4786
02:55:58,200 --> 02:56:02,475
out of the 50,000
people were going to,

4787
02:56:02,475 --> 02:56:03,750
the county itself would

4788
02:56:03,750 --> 02:56:04,679
absorb some of it for,

4789
02:56:04,679 --> 02:56:05,580
I believe it's got

4790
02:56:05,580 --> 02:56:06,870
its Rural Residential
build-out,

4791
02:56:06,870 --> 02:56:09,824
but it sends
none to cover.

4792
02:56:09,824 --> 02:56:11,489
That doesn't
mean necessarily

4793
02:56:11,489 --> 02:56:13,750
that Culver doesn't grow.

4794
02:56:14,270 --> 02:56:16,844
Mr. And Mrs. Jones

4795
02:56:16,844 --> 02:56:18,794
may decide to
move to culture,

4796
02:56:18,794 --> 02:56:21,989
whether the county
allocated any land there,

4797
02:56:21,989 --> 02:56:24,494
any population
there or not.

4798
02:56:24,494 --> 02:56:27,960
But I think Jefferson
County would be

4799
02:56:27,960 --> 02:56:30,929
saying is that
we are going

4800
02:56:30,929 --> 02:56:34,769
to give effect to our
allocation decision by

4801
02:56:34,769 --> 02:56:37,140
not approving an
amendment and

4802
02:56:37,140 --> 02:56:39,615
expansion of the urban
growth boundary.

4803
02:56:39,615 --> 02:56:41,249
So whether it be in
periodic review or

4804
02:56:41,249 --> 02:56:42,839
post acknowledgements
since the county

4805
02:56:42,839 --> 02:56:44,220
has to sign off
the county to

4806
02:56:44,220 --> 02:56:45,629
implement that
allocation would

4807
02:56:45,629 --> 02:56:49,769
simply not support the
expansion of the EGB.

4808
02:56:49,769 --> 02:56:52,379
One essentially
could be seized up,

4809
02:56:52,379 --> 02:56:53,609
repairing or
they would make

4810
02:56:53,609 --> 02:56:55,319
a reallocation of
the population of

4811
02:56:55,319 --> 02:56:56,774
rejection and say

4812
02:56:56,774 --> 02:56:58,440
that in the course
or they say,

4813
02:56:58,440 --> 02:56:59,925
well, you know, it's
reconsider, this,

4814
02:56:59,925 --> 02:57:02,850
can take 10,000 Jefferson
wins for matters,

4815
02:57:02,850 --> 02:57:05,084
okay? And put
it in college.

4816
02:57:05,084 --> 02:57:07,779
Classrooms, can do that.

4817
02:57:08,960 --> 02:57:11,685
But how does that all fit?

4818
02:57:11,685 --> 02:57:14,204
The whole idea was
the whole idea was

4819
02:57:14,204 --> 02:57:16,094
there be some
public process

4820
02:57:16,094 --> 02:57:16,860
that would get out

4821
02:57:16,860 --> 02:57:19,019
in the open how this
was happening and

4822
02:57:19,019 --> 02:57:21,809
the three
jurisdictions wouldn't

4823
02:57:21,809 --> 02:57:23,714
all claim the
same population.

4824
02:57:23,714 --> 02:57:26,550
Metro has that
responsibility under when?

4825
02:57:26,550 --> 02:57:30,284
95, whatever it is for
the three county area,

4826
02:57:30,284 --> 02:57:32,070
the part that's in
metros jurisdiction.

4827
02:57:32,070 --> 02:57:34,800
So presumably in the
2040 growth concept,

4828
02:57:34,800 --> 02:57:36,029
the framework
plan or one of

4829
02:57:36,029 --> 02:57:37,980
the elements
functional plan

4830
02:57:37,980 --> 02:57:40,259
has made that allocation.

4831
02:57:40,259 --> 02:57:43,935
Lake Oswego has gotten
a certain allocation.

4832
02:57:43,935 --> 02:57:47,130
Allocation was 95
statute wasn't it?

4833
02:57:47,130 --> 02:57:49,169
Wasn't any responsibility.

4834
02:57:49,169 --> 02:57:50,175
The responsibility, yes.

4835
02:57:50,175 --> 02:57:52,079
So which counties
have held

4836
02:57:52,079 --> 02:57:53,880
that public hearing
where the cities

4837
02:57:53,880 --> 02:57:55,379
are invited to come in and

4838
02:57:55,379 --> 02:57:56,549
offer whether they should

4839
02:57:56,549 --> 02:57:57,779
get more or less or none.

4840
02:57:57,779 --> 02:57:59,039
Has anybody done this yet?

4841
02:57:59,039 --> 02:58:00,540
Well, the metro
is doing it.

4842
02:58:00,540 --> 02:58:01,560
We're getting closer.

4843
02:58:01,560 --> 02:58:02,970
Marion County is closed

4844
02:58:02,970 --> 02:58:03,779
because that ought to

4845
02:58:03,779 --> 02:58:05,054
be an interesting
dialogue.

4846
02:58:05,054 --> 02:58:07,910
Douglas County has tried

4847
02:58:07,910 --> 02:58:09,854
to work in my schedule,
so but not there.

4848
02:58:09,854 --> 02:58:11,079
No.

4849
02:58:11,360 --> 02:58:13,814
I thought it'd be
working on it.

4850
02:58:13,814 --> 02:58:14,549
I thought it'd be

4851
02:58:14,549 --> 02:58:15,720
an interesting
work tasks for

4852
02:58:15,720 --> 02:58:17,114
the Department of egg

4853
02:58:17,114 --> 02:58:18,720
to identify those cities,

4854
02:58:18,720 --> 02:58:22,574
enforced egg cities
in port cities,

4855
02:58:22,574 --> 02:58:24,374
or put them on a list.

4856
02:58:24,374 --> 02:58:26,310
That could possibly
the counties

4857
02:58:26,310 --> 02:58:28,719
could opt out
of the process.

4858
02:58:29,510 --> 02:58:32,145
Well, the cities,

4859
02:58:32,145 --> 02:58:33,869
counties could
opt the city out.

4860
02:58:33,869 --> 02:58:35,640
There can be no throat
because there could be

4861
02:58:35,640 --> 02:58:38,129
no grow cities and
allocate their words.

4862
02:58:38,129 --> 02:58:39,705
Have the Department of Ed,

4863
02:58:39,705 --> 02:58:41,040
get it out of our hands,

4864
02:58:41,040 --> 02:58:44,310
identify those rural
communities and possibly

4865
02:58:44,310 --> 02:58:45,559
the counties
could overlook

4866
02:58:45,559 --> 02:58:48,689
in this 2709 process?

4867
02:58:48,689 --> 02:58:50,400
I don't remember
the statute.

4868
02:58:50,400 --> 02:58:52,274
What are the criteria
the county has to use?

4869
02:58:52,274 --> 02:58:54,795
Are they wide-open
statewide planning goals?

4870
02:58:54,795 --> 02:58:55,140
Yeah.

4871
02:58:55,140 --> 02:58:56,400
I don't think
there's any way in

4872
02:58:56,400 --> 02:58:58,349
Lake Oswego wouldn't
be on that list,

4873
02:58:58,349 --> 02:58:59,745
but North planes might.

4874
02:58:59,745 --> 02:59:01,300
Brooks

4875
02:59:05,440 --> 02:59:08,849
Okay, a few counties
in America.

4876
02:59:09,460 --> 02:59:13,879
Well, we can spend

4877
02:59:13,879 --> 02:59:16,565
as little time or as
much time as you want.

4878
02:59:16,565 --> 02:59:18,709
I'm talking about
the executive order,

4879
02:59:18,709 --> 02:59:20,225
but it's in your packet.

4880
02:59:20,225 --> 02:59:21,919
You can take a look at it.

4881
02:59:21,919 --> 02:59:25,340
It was in the works
for quite awhile,

4882
02:59:25,340 --> 02:59:27,650
really within the
governor's office.

4883
02:59:27,650 --> 02:59:29,629
It applies to us

4884
02:59:29,629 --> 02:59:31,970
as well as to
other agencies.

4885
02:59:31,970 --> 02:59:34,849
We will begin to prepare

4886
02:59:34,849 --> 02:59:37,840
the report that is
required on April 30,

4887
02:59:37,840 --> 02:59:41,375
98, and make sure you
get a copy of that.

4888
02:59:41,375 --> 02:59:45,985
And I think there's
only one meetings.

4889
02:59:45,985 --> 02:59:47,910
Correct me if I'm wrong,

4890
02:59:47,910 --> 02:59:49,050
would be the March meeting

4891
02:59:49,050 --> 02:59:50,430
is the only
meeting between

4892
02:59:50,430 --> 02:59:51,719
now and the time
that we would

4893
02:59:51,719 --> 02:59:53,040
have to submit
that for it.

4894
02:59:53,040 --> 02:59:55,349
So I think we'll
put an item on

4895
02:59:55,349 --> 02:59:57,630
the agenda to let you

4896
02:59:57,630 --> 03:00:00,405
know how that
report is looking,

4897
03:00:00,405 --> 03:00:02,444
what's likely to be in it.

4898
03:00:02,444 --> 03:00:06,314
But just to give
you a preview,

4899
03:00:06,314 --> 03:00:08,354
it would be a report

4900
03:00:08,354 --> 03:00:09,270
to the governor's office

4901
03:00:09,270 --> 03:00:10,410
about the activities of

4902
03:00:10,410 --> 03:00:11,879
the department and
the permission

4903
03:00:11,879 --> 03:00:13,350
including rulemaking

4904
03:00:13,350 --> 03:00:18,630
that would involve
the application

4905
03:00:18,630 --> 03:00:20,564
of the community
development objectives.

4906
03:00:20,564 --> 03:00:22,410
I mean, we we would
want to be making

4907
03:00:22,410 --> 03:00:25,020
a demonstration
that whatever

4908
03:00:25,020 --> 03:00:26,489
work you do and go 14,

4909
03:00:26,489 --> 03:00:27,810
whatever work you do on

4910
03:00:27,810 --> 03:00:30,029
the transmitter
planning rule.

4911
03:00:30,029 --> 03:00:32,714
Any of the proposed rules,

4912
03:00:32,714 --> 03:00:34,290
we would want to
be able to make

4913
03:00:34,290 --> 03:00:35,954
a demonstration
that they are

4914
03:00:35,954 --> 03:00:37,620
working consistently

4915
03:00:37,620 --> 03:00:39,824
with the quality of
development objective.

4916
03:00:39,824 --> 03:00:42,270
But it isn't
just rulemaking.

4917
03:00:42,270 --> 03:00:44,294
We have a local
governments

4918
03:00:44,294 --> 03:00:47,325
grants program as well.

4919
03:00:47,325 --> 03:00:49,934
And we would want to
make sure is that

4920
03:00:49,934 --> 03:00:52,514
those grant programs also

4921
03:00:52,514 --> 03:00:56,199
promote the quality of
element objectives.

4922
03:00:57,860 --> 03:01:02,354
If we come to you with

4923
03:01:02,354 --> 03:01:04,319
a proposed change in

4924
03:01:04,319 --> 03:01:06,854
our periodic review
strategy, e.g.

4925
03:01:06,854 --> 03:01:09,569
we would want to be able
to demonstrate that

4926
03:01:09,569 --> 03:01:11,519
that consistent with and

4927
03:01:11,519 --> 03:01:14,280
promotes the quality
development objectives.

4928
03:01:14,280 --> 03:01:17,895
As the year wears on,

4929
03:01:17,895 --> 03:01:19,785
we begin to develop
our budget.

4930
03:01:19,785 --> 03:01:23,624
We begin to look at
legislative proposals.

4931
03:01:23,624 --> 03:01:25,499
We want to make
sure that as

4932
03:01:25,499 --> 03:01:26,849
well is consistent with

4933
03:01:26,849 --> 03:01:28,170
the quality development
objectives.

4934
03:01:28,170 --> 03:01:31,470
I mean, essentially
everything that we do.

4935
03:01:31,470 --> 03:01:34,994
The governor is directing
that we consider

4936
03:01:34,994 --> 03:01:36,120
when you consider

4937
03:01:36,120 --> 03:01:37,275
the quality development,

4938
03:01:37,275 --> 03:01:38,279
development objectives,

4939
03:01:38,279 --> 03:01:45,809
when we do those
things, depending

4940
03:01:45,809 --> 03:01:47,369
on how much time you
want to get into it.

4941
03:01:47,369 --> 03:01:48,420
I can I can tell you

4942
03:01:48,420 --> 03:01:49,740
about some other
activities

4943
03:01:49,740 --> 03:01:53,129
at the Community
Solutions team level.

4944
03:01:53,129 --> 03:01:56,789
Other agencies
are responding

4945
03:01:56,789 --> 03:01:59,265
to these some
way that we are.

4946
03:01:59,265 --> 03:02:01,320
The governor went to

4947
03:02:01,320 --> 03:02:04,320
the emergency board at
its last meeting in

4948
03:02:04,320 --> 03:02:07,259
December and
asked for release

4949
03:02:07,259 --> 03:02:09,674
of $300,000 that was

4950
03:02:09,674 --> 03:02:10,889
already budgeted for this,

4951
03:02:10,889 --> 03:02:14,145
but sent to the emergency
ward for review.

4952
03:02:14,145 --> 03:02:17,850
And the governor's office
got the $300,000 to

4953
03:02:17,850 --> 03:02:19,334
establish and

4954
03:02:19,334 --> 03:02:22,154
operate a Community
Development Office.

4955
03:02:22,154 --> 03:02:24,869
Of Community
Development Office is

4956
03:02:24,869 --> 03:02:29,234
staffed by one person
from each agency.

4957
03:02:29,234 --> 03:02:31,350
And the function of

4958
03:02:31,350 --> 03:02:32,940
the Community
Development Office is

4959
03:02:32,940 --> 03:02:35,019
to respond to this,

4960
03:02:35,019 --> 03:02:38,270
but to a number of
other things as well,

4961
03:02:38,270 --> 03:02:41,480
including working
with us on

4962
03:02:41,480 --> 03:02:42,680
periodic review to see

4963
03:02:42,680 --> 03:02:43,490
if we can make it a more

4964
03:02:43,490 --> 03:02:44,539
meaningful process and

4965
03:02:44,539 --> 03:02:46,219
faster growing
communities.

4966
03:02:46,219 --> 03:02:47,779
It includes the work

4967
03:02:47,779 --> 03:02:50,029
on transportation finance.

4968
03:02:50,029 --> 03:02:52,490
It includes guidance on

4969
03:02:52,490 --> 03:02:53,390
the transportation and

4970
03:02:53,390 --> 03:02:54,499
growth management program,

4971
03:02:54,499 --> 03:02:55,430
a lot of things.

4972
03:02:55,430 --> 03:02:58,520
But responding to the
executive order is

4973
03:02:58,520 --> 03:03:03,649
one way that we have
responded to it is Bob,

4974
03:03:03,649 --> 03:03:05,509
R&D on our department

4975
03:03:05,509 --> 03:03:06,740
is going to be
spending part of

4976
03:03:06,740 --> 03:03:08,720
his time now in the in

4977
03:03:08,720 --> 03:03:11,240
the community
development office,

4978
03:03:11,240 --> 03:03:12,920
working on a variety of

4979
03:03:12,920 --> 03:03:16,890
things including
periodic review.

4980
03:03:18,130 --> 03:03:22,969
Can I don't want to
drag you into too much

4981
03:03:22,969 --> 03:03:24,530
of a discussion of
this because I know

4982
03:03:24,530 --> 03:03:27,229
you do you want to keep
the meeting short?

4983
03:03:27,229 --> 03:03:28,909
But there is a lot going

4984
03:03:28,909 --> 03:03:30,440
on when we're going

4985
03:03:30,440 --> 03:03:32,639
to have to come over
and help you move.

4986
03:03:33,400 --> 03:03:35,599
I'd say, well, if

4987
03:03:35,599 --> 03:03:37,324
you've driven past
the building,

4988
03:03:37,324 --> 03:03:38,539
that looks like it's been

4989
03:03:38,539 --> 03:03:40,130
through a world war.

4990
03:03:40,130 --> 03:03:43,475
It's now in the
rebuilding mode.

4991
03:03:43,475 --> 03:03:45,800
Foundation has
been poured for

4992
03:03:45,800 --> 03:03:48,125
the extinction
of the building,

4993
03:03:48,125 --> 03:03:50,150
and there's also work

4994
03:03:50,150 --> 03:03:52,985
underway to establish
the third floor.

4995
03:03:52,985 --> 03:03:55,760
The schedule, as
I understand.

4996
03:03:55,760 --> 03:03:57,530
I understand it is that
it would be ready for

4997
03:03:57,530 --> 03:04:00,540
occupancy and a little
less than a year.

4998
03:04:03,940 --> 03:04:06,659
Christmas party.

4999
03:04:11,020 --> 03:04:13,649
Okay.

5000
03:04:14,980 --> 03:04:18,440
Well, that's all I would
draw your attention.

5001
03:04:18,440 --> 03:04:20,030
To my knowledge,
you've got questions

5002
03:04:20,030 --> 03:04:25,759
about well,

5003
03:04:25,759 --> 03:04:27,259
Mitch and Trish are both

5004
03:04:27,259 --> 03:04:29,164
spending a good
bit of time

5005
03:04:29,164 --> 03:04:34,129
on the activities
that are listed here.

5006
03:04:34,129 --> 03:04:37,909
As you move to the second
page, commissioner,

5007
03:04:37,909 --> 03:04:38,960
just wiped that
are already

5008
03:04:38,960 --> 03:04:40,159
in your schedules
you might want

5009
03:04:40,159 --> 03:04:45,120
to put on May 1
and May 29th.

5010
03:04:48,200 --> 03:04:55,110
What are you looking
at? You're running

5011
03:04:55,110 --> 03:04:57,340
my speech for APA.

5012
03:04:58,160 --> 03:05:00,465
The commission meetings on

5013
03:05:00,465 --> 03:05:02,590
schedule for the 29th.

5014
03:05:03,110 --> 03:05:07,359
So the day of the rest
will be here anyway.

5015
03:05:11,720 --> 03:05:16,179
Any other items to
come before us?

5016
03:05:22,040 --> 03:05:25,080
We're adjourned until you

5017
03:05:25,080 --> 03:05:27,129
start the heavy sweating.

5018
03:05:27,620 --> 03:05:30,280
Who will be paid for?