1
00:00:05,660 --> 00:00:09,150
We have a couple of
our members that are

2
00:00:09,150 --> 00:00:11,895
on the road in various
states of being late.

3
00:00:11,895 --> 00:00:13,349
But in the interests of

4
00:00:13,349 --> 00:00:14,865
since you're all on time,

5
00:00:14,865 --> 00:00:15,659
we're gonna go ahead and

6
00:00:15,659 --> 00:00:18,100
get started
taking testimony.

7
00:00:18,410 --> 00:00:20,310
I'm always reminded as

8
00:00:20,310 --> 00:00:21,239
we came into this room and

9
00:00:21,239 --> 00:00:23,790
This is a very
historic room.

10
00:00:23,790 --> 00:00:25,665
You may feel the aura

11
00:00:25,665 --> 00:00:27,000
of that as you're
testifying,

12
00:00:27,000 --> 00:00:28,020
this was the room
in which the

13
00:00:28,020 --> 00:00:30,344
goals were
originally adopted.

14
00:00:30,344 --> 00:00:32,579
So if you feel

15
00:00:32,579 --> 00:00:33,900
any presence
because of that,

16
00:00:33,900 --> 00:00:35,620
that's what it is.

17
00:00:35,840 --> 00:00:37,890
We have a number
of people that

18
00:00:37,890 --> 00:00:39,014
want to testify.

19
00:00:39,014 --> 00:00:40,979
I'd like to remind
everybody that

20
00:00:40,979 --> 00:00:43,654
the testimony limited to

21
00:00:43,654 --> 00:00:46,999
one issue related
to the rules

22
00:00:46,999 --> 00:00:50,165
and that is the farm
dwelling tests.

23
00:00:50,165 --> 00:00:52,129
We're not taking
testimony on the rest of

24
00:00:52,129 --> 00:00:54,829
the goal three-year goal

25
00:00:54,829 --> 00:00:57,874
for amendments that
we're considering.

26
00:00:57,874 --> 00:00:59,690
We will have a work
session tomorrow,

27
00:00:59,690 --> 00:01:00,980
which is of course
a public meeting.

28
00:01:00,980 --> 00:01:03,530
And you're all welcome
to listen to that.

29
00:01:03,530 --> 00:01:05,990
And as you well know
from the way we operate,

30
00:01:05,990 --> 00:01:08,480
we often ask
questions if folks in

31
00:01:08,480 --> 00:01:10,069
the audience during

32
00:01:10,069 --> 00:01:11,839
those sessions
this afternoon,

33
00:01:11,839 --> 00:01:14,639
we're just going
to take testimony.

34
00:01:14,650 --> 00:01:16,999
I'd like to begin

35
00:01:16,999 --> 00:01:18,409
before we start
taking testimony

36
00:01:18,409 --> 00:01:20,210
with asking dig
better to give us

37
00:01:20,210 --> 00:01:22,714
some background as
to where we are.

38
00:01:22,714 --> 00:01:24,690
Okay.

39
00:01:24,760 --> 00:01:27,380
I was asked by
the Chair of the

40
00:01:27,380 --> 00:01:29,210
Joint Legislative
Committee on land use to

41
00:01:29,210 --> 00:01:31,099
remind people
or help people

42
00:01:31,099 --> 00:01:32,149
who've may not have

43
00:01:32,149 --> 00:01:33,919
heard in our
interests is dead.

44
00:01:33,919 --> 00:01:35,404
The meeting of the

45
00:01:35,404 --> 00:01:37,009
Joint Legislative
Committee on land use,

46
00:01:37,009 --> 00:01:39,664
which was scheduled
for February 25th,

47
00:01:39,664 --> 00:01:41,480
has that meaning has
been canceled in

48
00:01:41,480 --> 00:01:44,539
the new date is March 7.

49
00:01:44,539 --> 00:01:45,740
So if you're interested in

50
00:01:45,740 --> 00:01:46,984
following the work
of that committee,

51
00:01:46,984 --> 00:01:50,100
should take note of
that meeting change?

52
00:01:50,950 --> 00:01:53,839
I thought it would
be helpful both

53
00:01:53,839 --> 00:01:55,880
for the commission
and folks in

54
00:01:55,880 --> 00:01:57,949
the audience to give
a bit of background

55
00:01:57,949 --> 00:02:01,670
about how we got to
this point here,

56
00:02:01,670 --> 00:02:04,189
when the commission is
holding a hearing on

57
00:02:04,189 --> 00:02:06,830
changing or
possibly changing

58
00:02:06,830 --> 00:02:09,599
the criteria for
farm dwellings.

59
00:02:09,910 --> 00:02:12,620
And I think most
of you have been

60
00:02:12,620 --> 00:02:14,150
following this issue with

61
00:02:14,150 --> 00:02:15,979
the condition
for some time.

62
00:02:15,979 --> 00:02:18,139
And this may not
be news to you,

63
00:02:18,139 --> 00:02:19,804
but for the rest of you,

64
00:02:19,804 --> 00:02:22,279
it's worth going back to

65
00:02:22,279 --> 00:02:25,894
the Commission's
rulemaking efforts in

66
00:02:25,894 --> 00:02:27,620
December of we're actually

67
00:02:27,620 --> 00:02:30,424
adopted in
December of 1992.

68
00:02:30,424 --> 00:02:32,660
Those were the rules which

69
00:02:32,660 --> 00:02:35,029
established small-scale
resource land,

70
00:02:35,029 --> 00:02:38,149
high-value farmland,
and changed

71
00:02:38,149 --> 00:02:39,680
a number of their
criteria for

72
00:02:39,680 --> 00:02:42,709
various farm uses,
including farm dwellings.

73
00:02:42,709 --> 00:02:45,814
What motivated
the Commission

74
00:02:45,814 --> 00:02:47,990
to look at the test for

75
00:02:47,990 --> 00:02:50,930
farm dwellings at
that time in the fall

76
00:02:50,930 --> 00:02:54,649
of 1972, were
several things.

77
00:02:54,649 --> 00:02:57,769
Principally, a
study that was done

78
00:02:57,769 --> 00:03:01,579
for the commission
in 1,990.19 91.

79
00:03:01,579 --> 00:03:03,260
This was a study
that was ordered by

80
00:03:03,260 --> 00:03:04,819
the Emergency Board
of the legislature

81
00:03:04,819 --> 00:03:06,319
between sessions

82
00:03:06,319 --> 00:03:09,110
on farming forest
land to see how

83
00:03:09,110 --> 00:03:12,424
the two goals were working
out on the ground.

84
00:03:12,424 --> 00:03:16,114
And among the results

85
00:03:16,114 --> 00:03:18,574
that came out
of that study,

86
00:03:18,574 --> 00:03:22,024
there was a focus
on farm dwellings.

87
00:03:22,024 --> 00:03:23,959
And the study indicated

88
00:03:23,959 --> 00:03:25,685
that conclusions
indicated that

89
00:03:25,685 --> 00:03:28,220
an awful lot of farm
dwellings were being

90
00:03:28,220 --> 00:03:31,430
approved in a
period of 85 to 87.

91
00:03:31,430 --> 00:03:34,280
And upon checking, it
was determined that

92
00:03:34,280 --> 00:03:37,414
some 75% of them or more,

93
00:03:37,414 --> 00:03:42,650
we're not generating
$10,000 in gross sales.

94
00:03:42,650 --> 00:03:45,109
And a very large majority

95
00:03:45,109 --> 00:03:47,899
of them were not
grossing as much as 40.

96
00:03:47,899 --> 00:03:51,215
That concerned the
commission that

97
00:03:51,215 --> 00:03:53,750
maybe an awful lot of
the dwellings that were

98
00:03:53,750 --> 00:03:55,940
being approved out
on farm ground.

99
00:03:55,940 --> 00:03:57,110
We're not really in

100
00:03:57,110 --> 00:04:00,335
conjunction with
commercial agriculture.

101
00:04:00,335 --> 00:04:02,960
So when the December when

102
00:04:02,960 --> 00:04:04,729
the Fall of 92 rulemaking

103
00:04:04,729 --> 00:04:05,914
effort got underway,

104
00:04:05,914 --> 00:04:07,910
the commission was
resolved to try to

105
00:04:07,910 --> 00:04:11,600
address the farm
dwelling criteria.

106
00:04:11,600 --> 00:04:14,029
In those months,

107
00:04:14,029 --> 00:04:16,024
the commission
was looking for

108
00:04:16,024 --> 00:04:18,319
a test or tests that

109
00:04:18,319 --> 00:04:20,944
could be clear
and objective,

110
00:04:20,944 --> 00:04:22,640
meaning that
you could read

111
00:04:22,640 --> 00:04:25,099
the test and have a
pretty good idea of

112
00:04:25,099 --> 00:04:27,200
whether a particular
application

113
00:04:27,200 --> 00:04:29,884
was gonna be approved
or not approved,

114
00:04:29,884 --> 00:04:32,120
that the test
could be applied

115
00:04:32,120 --> 00:04:34,714
by a county planning
departments

116
00:04:34,714 --> 00:04:36,920
without having to
do a great deal of

117
00:04:36,920 --> 00:04:40,610
research before it could
answer the question.

118
00:04:40,610 --> 00:04:42,439
The Commission found that

119
00:04:42,439 --> 00:04:43,459
to be very difficult,

120
00:04:43,459 --> 00:04:46,519
but it did adopt a
test that would be

121
00:04:46,519 --> 00:04:47,929
applied to what
it was calling it

122
00:04:47,929 --> 00:04:50,105
that time,
high-value farmland.

123
00:04:50,105 --> 00:04:51,935
And that test was that

124
00:04:51,935 --> 00:04:54,230
you could quantify
for farm dwelling if

125
00:04:54,230 --> 00:04:55,309
you could demonstrate that

126
00:04:55,309 --> 00:04:57,020
your farm had
been generating

127
00:04:57,020 --> 00:04:59,975
$40,000 in gross income

128
00:04:59,975 --> 00:05:02,869
over a period of
recent years.

129
00:05:02,869 --> 00:05:06,305
The commission
was not able to

130
00:05:06,305 --> 00:05:08,240
adopt a task or a set of

131
00:05:08,240 --> 00:05:11,059
criteria that they felt.

132
00:05:11,059 --> 00:05:13,490
Very confident about for

133
00:05:13,490 --> 00:05:14,899
the rest of farmland,

134
00:05:14,899 --> 00:05:16,880
that is land and
EF2 zones that

135
00:05:16,880 --> 00:05:19,189
did not qualify as
high-value farmland.

136
00:05:19,189 --> 00:05:21,425
The commission did revise

137
00:05:21,425 --> 00:05:23,809
the test that had been
used up to that time,

138
00:05:23,809 --> 00:05:24,860
but it concluded at

139
00:05:24,860 --> 00:05:26,030
the end of its
rulemaking that

140
00:05:26,030 --> 00:05:28,445
it was not entirely
happy with it.

141
00:05:28,445 --> 00:05:30,244
So it decided to establish

142
00:05:30,244 --> 00:05:32,404
a technical
resource committee.

143
00:05:32,404 --> 00:05:35,389
And it charged that
resource committee to do

144
00:05:35,389 --> 00:05:38,314
a number of things but
relevant today, use.

145
00:05:38,314 --> 00:05:41,210
It asked the resource
committee to review

146
00:05:41,210 --> 00:05:44,660
the PharmD willing
criteria and see if it

147
00:05:44,660 --> 00:05:46,790
could recommend
something to

148
00:05:46,790 --> 00:05:48,319
the commission which
would be better

149
00:05:48,319 --> 00:05:50,330
than what they
had written into

150
00:05:50,330 --> 00:05:53,089
the December 1992 rules.

151
00:05:53,089 --> 00:05:55,789
And in particular,
the commission

152
00:05:55,789 --> 00:05:56,929
asked that the technical

153
00:05:56,929 --> 00:05:58,100
resource committee
to look at

154
00:05:58,100 --> 00:06:00,380
a test that would be
based on a combination

155
00:06:00,380 --> 00:06:03,260
of capability to
produce income,

156
00:06:03,260 --> 00:06:06,260
investments in
farm machinery,

157
00:06:06,260 --> 00:06:09,869
etc, and farm
management itself.

158
00:06:10,270 --> 00:06:12,259
After those rules were

159
00:06:12,259 --> 00:06:13,714
adopted by the commission,

160
00:06:13,714 --> 00:06:17,600
the legislature
got involved in

161
00:06:17,600 --> 00:06:19,460
a large way and

162
00:06:19,460 --> 00:06:23,944
adopted or passed
House Bill 36, 61.

163
00:06:23,944 --> 00:06:26,165
A lot of record law.

164
00:06:26,165 --> 00:06:29,719
That law is long
and complicated,

165
00:06:29,719 --> 00:06:31,639
but I'll just highlight
two pieces of

166
00:06:31,639 --> 00:06:32,420
adhere that may be

167
00:06:32,420 --> 00:06:33,890
relevant to the
discussion.

168
00:06:33,890 --> 00:06:36,109
One thing it did
is it said on

169
00:06:36,109 --> 00:06:38,870
certain lots that are

170
00:06:38,870 --> 00:06:41,689
existing out there and
farm and four zones,

171
00:06:41,689 --> 00:06:43,565
dwellings could
be authorized.

172
00:06:43,565 --> 00:06:44,780
Lot of record dwellings

173
00:06:44,780 --> 00:06:45,980
could be authorized on

174
00:06:45,980 --> 00:06:50,255
those lots if they met
a set of standards.

175
00:06:50,255 --> 00:06:52,760
That bill also changed

176
00:06:52,760 --> 00:06:55,430
the law with respect to
non-pharm dwellings.

177
00:06:55,430 --> 00:06:58,354
With the end that in
many parts of the state,

178
00:06:58,354 --> 00:07:00,170
legislature made it easier

179
00:07:00,170 --> 00:07:03,419
to approve non-farm
dwellings.

180
00:07:03,460 --> 00:07:07,565
After the end of the
legislative session.

181
00:07:07,565 --> 00:07:09,964
The technical
resource committee

182
00:07:09,964 --> 00:07:12,050
was constituted.

183
00:07:12,050 --> 00:07:14,629
Its members began meeting

184
00:07:14,629 --> 00:07:17,569
in October in order
to respond to

185
00:07:17,569 --> 00:07:18,889
the charge from
the commission to

186
00:07:18,889 --> 00:07:20,269
see if they could look at

187
00:07:20,269 --> 00:07:21,919
the criteria for
formed dwellings,

188
00:07:21,919 --> 00:07:24,859
perhaps recommend
improvements.

189
00:07:24,859 --> 00:07:27,260
If you're interested
in the report

190
00:07:27,260 --> 00:07:28,669
of the technical
resource committee,

191
00:07:28,669 --> 00:07:30,110
there are copies of it on

192
00:07:30,110 --> 00:07:33,150
the table over
here to my right.

193
00:07:33,370 --> 00:07:36,559
You're going to
hear from members

194
00:07:36,559 --> 00:07:37,639
of the technical resource

195
00:07:37,639 --> 00:07:38,780
committee about
their work.

196
00:07:38,780 --> 00:07:41,750
So I won't I'll get into
any detail about it.

197
00:07:41,750 --> 00:07:43,639
But I would simply say

198
00:07:43,639 --> 00:07:46,219
that they met a
number of times,

199
00:07:46,219 --> 00:07:49,204
October, November,
December, and January,

200
00:07:49,204 --> 00:07:51,395
wrestling with this,

201
00:07:51,395 --> 00:07:53,689
they had all of the
difficulty that

202
00:07:53,689 --> 00:07:56,660
the commission has had
in trying to identify

203
00:07:56,660 --> 00:07:58,789
the best possible test for

204
00:07:58,789 --> 00:08:00,109
when farmed with a new

205
00:08:00,109 --> 00:08:02,045
farm dwellings ought
to be approved.

206
00:08:02,045 --> 00:08:05,390
And ultimately, the
committee came to

207
00:08:05,390 --> 00:08:07,340
a conclusion on that and

208
00:08:07,340 --> 00:08:09,950
made its recommendation
to the commission.

209
00:08:09,950 --> 00:08:11,689
And that is a part of

210
00:08:11,689 --> 00:08:13,969
the basis for
today's hearing.

211
00:08:13,969 --> 00:08:16,010
When we got started on

212
00:08:16,010 --> 00:08:19,220
this most recent
rulemaking exercise.

213
00:08:19,220 --> 00:08:22,810
It it started because 36,

214
00:08:22,810 --> 00:08:25,910
61 changed the
law with respect

215
00:08:25,910 --> 00:08:28,580
to exclusive
farm use zoning

216
00:08:28,580 --> 00:08:31,084
and when uses can
be authorized,

217
00:08:31,084 --> 00:08:32,750
land divisions
and all of that.

218
00:08:32,750 --> 00:08:36,335
And it directed the
commission to change

219
00:08:36,335 --> 00:08:39,110
its 1992 rules to

220
00:08:39,110 --> 00:08:42,620
be consistent with new
house bill 36, 61.

221
00:08:42,620 --> 00:08:44,659
So this rulemaking
exercise that we're

222
00:08:44,659 --> 00:08:47,089
involved in now has been

223
00:08:47,089 --> 00:08:49,459
underway since
early November

224
00:08:49,459 --> 00:08:52,895
when we first had
statewide hearings.

225
00:08:52,895 --> 00:08:55,609
As we were preparing
for those hearings,

226
00:08:55,609 --> 00:08:57,499
scheduling them
and whatnot.

227
00:08:57,499 --> 00:09:02,074
We tried to let
folks know that

228
00:09:02,074 --> 00:09:04,910
the farm dwelling
criteria were

229
00:09:04,910 --> 00:09:06,319
among the things
that the commission

230
00:09:06,319 --> 00:09:08,510
was gonna be looking at.

231
00:09:08,510 --> 00:09:10,399
The hearings
have been going

232
00:09:10,399 --> 00:09:11,600
on at the same time that

233
00:09:11,600 --> 00:09:13,729
the technical resource
committee has been

234
00:09:13,729 --> 00:09:16,280
meeting and struggling
with the test.

235
00:09:16,280 --> 00:09:18,290
So as information
has become

236
00:09:18,290 --> 00:09:19,340
available from the

237
00:09:19,340 --> 00:09:20,824
technical resource
committee,

238
00:09:20,824 --> 00:09:23,060
we have passed that on to

239
00:09:23,060 --> 00:09:24,455
the public so that

240
00:09:24,455 --> 00:09:25,985
it could be
commented upon.

241
00:09:25,985 --> 00:09:28,190
During the hearings,
the Commission

242
00:09:28,190 --> 00:09:31,100
held a hearing on
the overall rules.

243
00:09:31,100 --> 00:09:32,480
Early in December.

244
00:09:32,480 --> 00:09:34,340
The commission had
a second hearing on

245
00:09:34,340 --> 00:09:38,209
the overall rules
third week in January.

246
00:09:38,209 --> 00:09:39,829
And at that time,

247
00:09:39,829 --> 00:09:41,809
that was initially going

248
00:09:41,809 --> 00:09:43,459
to be the last hearing on

249
00:09:43,459 --> 00:09:45,140
the proposed rules
in order to meet

250
00:09:45,140 --> 00:09:46,400
a statutory deadline to

251
00:09:46,400 --> 00:09:48,485
finish the rules
by March 1st.

252
00:09:48,485 --> 00:09:50,270
But because the work of

253
00:09:50,270 --> 00:09:52,069
the technical resource
committee was not

254
00:09:52,069 --> 00:09:54,500
complete until late
in the process.

255
00:09:54,500 --> 00:09:56,854
At the January
21 workshop,

256
00:09:56,854 --> 00:09:59,150
the commission
decided to schedule

257
00:09:59,150 --> 00:10:01,789
a hearing that's
today just on

258
00:10:01,789 --> 00:10:03,260
the farm dwelling criteria

259
00:10:03,260 --> 00:10:04,490
so that people would have

260
00:10:04,490 --> 00:10:06,949
another opportunity
to make

261
00:10:06,949 --> 00:10:08,359
their views known
to the commission

262
00:10:08,359 --> 00:10:10,325
both orally and in writing

263
00:10:10,325 --> 00:10:13,010
about the PharmD
willing criteria.

264
00:10:13,010 --> 00:10:14,780
I think it's worth noting

265
00:10:14,780 --> 00:10:17,330
that the commission
has been

266
00:10:17,330 --> 00:10:19,805
thinking about farmed
willing criteria,

267
00:10:19,805 --> 00:10:21,724
probably from

268
00:10:21,724 --> 00:10:23,464
Several years after
the first go,

269
00:10:23,464 --> 00:10:26,060
after the goal was
first adopted in 1975,

270
00:10:26,060 --> 00:10:28,159
it's always been a
difficult issue.

271
00:10:28,159 --> 00:10:30,590
Under what circumstances
formed dwellings,

272
00:10:30,590 --> 00:10:32,464
new firms willing
Zona be approved.

273
00:10:32,464 --> 00:10:35,239
But definitely since
the fall of 1992,

274
00:10:35,239 --> 00:10:38,300
the commission has been
looking at this very,

275
00:10:38,300 --> 00:10:39,769
very seriously,
that there has been

276
00:10:39,769 --> 00:10:41,840
a tremendous
amount of exchange

277
00:10:41,840 --> 00:10:45,769
of views and debate
controversy about it.

278
00:10:45,769 --> 00:10:48,259
And the commission
hasn't stopped thinking

279
00:10:48,259 --> 00:10:51,664
about it really since
the fall of 1992,

280
00:10:51,664 --> 00:10:54,019
many, many ideas
have come forward

281
00:10:54,019 --> 00:10:56,465
about what an appropriate
test might be.

282
00:10:56,465 --> 00:10:58,459
A lot of those ideas
were advanced to

283
00:10:58,459 --> 00:11:01,970
the Commission in
the fall of 199021.

284
00:11:01,970 --> 00:11:04,429
Of the pieces that
you'll find over on

285
00:11:04,429 --> 00:11:07,489
this table is a
brief outline

286
00:11:07,489 --> 00:11:09,094
of some of those tests.

287
00:11:09,094 --> 00:11:11,809
And folks are still
advancing some

288
00:11:11,809 --> 00:11:13,309
of those tests and
the commission

289
00:11:13,309 --> 00:11:14,494
will be discussing them,

290
00:11:14,494 --> 00:11:18,019
considering them
and perhaps acting.

291
00:11:18,019 --> 00:11:19,070
So.

292
00:11:19,070 --> 00:11:20,659
I just want to
make sure that you

293
00:11:20,659 --> 00:11:22,775
understand that
this issue,

294
00:11:22,775 --> 00:11:25,430
the set of criteria
for formed dwellings,

295
00:11:25,430 --> 00:11:27,769
has been actively
discussed by

296
00:11:27,769 --> 00:11:31,499
this commission for
about two years.

297
00:11:31,600 --> 00:11:33,919
Just to make sure
that, you know,

298
00:11:33,919 --> 00:11:35,870
there are handouts on
this table over here.

299
00:11:35,870 --> 00:11:38,030
You can you can get
yourself a copy of

300
00:11:38,030 --> 00:11:39,530
the final report at

301
00:11:39,530 --> 00:11:41,360
the technical
resource committee.

302
00:11:41,360 --> 00:11:43,640
Over there,
you'll also find

303
00:11:43,640 --> 00:11:45,349
the departments most

304
00:11:45,349 --> 00:11:47,030
recent issues paper which

305
00:11:47,030 --> 00:11:49,354
the commission will
use tomorrow as it

306
00:11:49,354 --> 00:11:53,165
makes its final walk
through the draft rules.

307
00:11:53,165 --> 00:11:55,880
You will also
find copies of

308
00:11:55,880 --> 00:12:00,019
the draft rules from
earlier in January.

309
00:12:00,019 --> 00:12:01,820
You will find a copy of

310
00:12:01,820 --> 00:12:03,770
draft rules that the
Commission will be

311
00:12:03,770 --> 00:12:05,239
using as a basis
for their work

312
00:12:05,239 --> 00:12:07,654
tomorrow that has a
February 17th or years,

313
00:12:07,654 --> 00:12:09,515
those that reflects

314
00:12:09,515 --> 00:12:11,239
the comments that
have been coming

315
00:12:11,239 --> 00:12:12,695
into the commission has

316
00:12:12,695 --> 00:12:14,900
proposed changes
to the draft.

317
00:12:14,900 --> 00:12:16,264
So all of those things

318
00:12:16,264 --> 00:12:17,855
are available to
you over there.

319
00:12:17,855 --> 00:12:19,370
I would also
point out that if

320
00:12:19,370 --> 00:12:22,115
you're interested
in something,

321
00:12:22,115 --> 00:12:24,124
statistics are
some data about

322
00:12:24,124 --> 00:12:26,060
farm dwellings in Oregon

323
00:12:26,060 --> 00:12:27,920
or farmland in Oregon.

324
00:12:27,920 --> 00:12:29,465
There are some
sheets over there

325
00:12:29,465 --> 00:12:31,159
as well to help you get

326
00:12:31,159 --> 00:12:32,810
a picture of
where agriculture

327
00:12:32,810 --> 00:12:33,919
and what's been happening

328
00:12:33,919 --> 00:12:35,734
with farm dwellings.

329
00:12:35,734 --> 00:12:36,740
Mr.

330
00:12:36,740 --> 00:12:37,774
Chairman, that's
all I have.

331
00:12:37,774 --> 00:12:39,349
An introduction.

332
00:12:39,349 --> 00:12:42,500
I would suggest
that since we

333
00:12:42,500 --> 00:12:43,550
have several
members of the

334
00:12:43,550 --> 00:12:46,114
technical resource
committee here,

335
00:12:46,114 --> 00:12:48,680
it might be good
to have them come

336
00:12:48,680 --> 00:12:51,364
forward and in
brief fashion

337
00:12:51,364 --> 00:12:53,839
describe their
recommendation to

338
00:12:53,839 --> 00:12:55,040
the commission
so people in

339
00:12:55,040 --> 00:12:56,930
the audience
can know about

340
00:12:56,930 --> 00:12:59,555
that and it may may
affect their testimony.

341
00:12:59,555 --> 00:13:00,695
Mr. Chair?

342
00:13:00,695 --> 00:13:01,249
Yes.

343
00:13:01,249 --> 00:13:02,329
Before we get
started, I want to

344
00:13:02,329 --> 00:13:03,499
ask a couple of questions

345
00:13:03,499 --> 00:13:05,420
about same materials that

346
00:13:05,420 --> 00:13:07,490
we have here are
the OER 660,

347
00:13:07,490 --> 00:13:10,685
division six, and
the division 33.

348
00:13:10,685 --> 00:13:12,830
Are those the same
materials that

349
00:13:12,830 --> 00:13:14,599
we got in the
book or should we

350
00:13:14,599 --> 00:13:16,805
discard what
we received in

351
00:13:16,805 --> 00:13:20,555
the black notebook by
mail and use these?

352
00:13:20,555 --> 00:13:22,789
Well, the reason
you wouldn't want

353
00:13:22,789 --> 00:13:25,010
to discard what you've
got in the book.

354
00:13:25,010 --> 00:13:26,720
Is that the stuff

355
00:13:26,720 --> 00:13:28,385
that's in what you
were just handed

356
00:13:28,385 --> 00:13:31,159
has amendments
written into it

357
00:13:31,159 --> 00:13:33,409
that our
recommendations there

358
00:13:33,409 --> 00:13:34,939
nothing that you
have acted upon it.

359
00:13:34,939 --> 00:13:37,249
I mean, you remember
the actions that

360
00:13:37,249 --> 00:13:39,890
you took on the 21st
and your work session?

361
00:13:39,890 --> 00:13:42,499
Okay. Those changes are in

362
00:13:42,499 --> 00:13:45,710
the February 17th draft.

363
00:13:45,710 --> 00:13:49,820
But the February the
17th draft also has e.g.

364
00:13:49,820 --> 00:13:51,845
our recommendation
on the farm dwelling

365
00:13:51,845 --> 00:13:55,384
and some of the
issues paper,

366
00:13:55,384 --> 00:13:56,509
our recommendation on how

367
00:13:56,509 --> 00:13:57,500
to resolve those issues.

368
00:13:57,500 --> 00:13:59,660
So I would suggest you
hold onto them both,

369
00:13:59,660 --> 00:14:01,504
but for tomorrow, when

370
00:14:01,504 --> 00:14:03,335
we talk about the issues,

371
00:14:03,335 --> 00:14:05,494
if you want to
see the language

372
00:14:05,494 --> 00:14:07,730
that would correspond
to our recommendation,

373
00:14:07,730 --> 00:14:10,920
it'll be in the
February 17th draft.

374
00:14:13,420 --> 00:14:15,619
The issue paper different

375
00:14:15,619 --> 00:14:17,329
than what has
been circulated?

376
00:14:17,329 --> 00:14:18,830
The issue paper
in the notebook

377
00:14:18,830 --> 00:14:20,219
different from the
one that's been no.

378
00:14:20,219 --> 00:14:20,699
No.

379
00:14:20,699 --> 00:14:22,590
This is just the one.

380
00:14:27,910 --> 00:14:32,510
Okay. Let us hear
from the Hadley.

381
00:14:32,510 --> 00:14:33,710
You're going to handle
it, you're going

382
00:14:33,710 --> 00:14:36,725
to care of this.

383
00:14:36,725 --> 00:14:40,430
Now I'll lead
lead it. Now.

384
00:14:40,430 --> 00:14:42,259
I can't remember. Did have

385
00:14:42,259 --> 00:14:44,450
you guys turned it
in green slips too?

386
00:14:44,450 --> 00:14:46,520
Okay. Do you want
to testify in

387
00:14:46,520 --> 00:14:48,440
addition to yes. Okay.

388
00:14:48,440 --> 00:14:49,820
So I shouldn't
take them out of

389
00:14:49,820 --> 00:14:51,215
my out of here

390
00:14:51,215 --> 00:14:52,565
because you're up
here right now.

391
00:14:52,565 --> 00:14:55,865
We will try and tailor
our comments just to

392
00:14:55,865 --> 00:14:57,979
the consensus that
was reached by

393
00:14:57,979 --> 00:15:00,589
the technical resource
committee this point.

394
00:15:00,589 --> 00:15:02,240
And then speak for

395
00:15:02,240 --> 00:15:03,289
the other two buttons like

396
00:15:03,289 --> 00:15:04,774
an opportunity to alright.

397
00:15:04,774 --> 00:15:06,979
Individual comments.

398
00:15:06,979 --> 00:15:10,654
Chairman and
commission members.

399
00:15:10,654 --> 00:15:12,499
We started out on

400
00:15:12,499 --> 00:15:14,690
a technical
resource committee

401
00:15:14,690 --> 00:15:16,730
by identifying some
of our object.

402
00:15:16,730 --> 00:15:18,365
Can everybody in
the back hear him?

403
00:15:18,365 --> 00:15:21,290
Is it Chipotle and

404
00:15:21,290 --> 00:15:23,820
microphone overlooked
closer together.

405
00:15:24,070 --> 00:15:27,530
Okay. Okay.

406
00:15:27,910 --> 00:15:32,510
The objectives that we
identified in some of

407
00:15:32,510 --> 00:15:34,159
our initial
meetings that we

408
00:15:34,159 --> 00:15:36,740
had included a list
of five items.

409
00:15:36,740 --> 00:15:39,229
I'm going to go through
fairly quickly here.

410
00:15:39,229 --> 00:15:42,559
We tried to, we
felt that one of

411
00:15:42,559 --> 00:15:44,825
our objectives was to

412
00:15:44,825 --> 00:15:46,399
develop criteria

413
00:15:46,399 --> 00:15:48,455
that we're clear
and objective.

414
00:15:48,455 --> 00:15:50,660
That were quantifiable.

415
00:15:50,660 --> 00:15:53,509
And we also felt that

416
00:15:53,509 --> 00:15:56,149
there should be
options to being

417
00:15:56,149 --> 00:15:57,679
able to identify

418
00:15:57,679 --> 00:16:00,275
formulated dwellings

419
00:16:00,275 --> 00:16:03,229
for different
jurisdictions.

420
00:16:03,229 --> 00:16:04,550
We did not
believe there was

421
00:16:04,550 --> 00:16:07,099
such a thing as
one size fits all.

422
00:16:07,099 --> 00:16:09,919
We recognize that
there was a need to

423
00:16:09,919 --> 00:16:12,935
make the current
process more simple.

424
00:16:12,935 --> 00:16:14,494
And so that was

425
00:16:14,494 --> 00:16:16,070
also one of the
objectives that

426
00:16:16,070 --> 00:16:19,429
we tried to address
was to at least,

427
00:16:19,429 --> 00:16:21,904
if not in one,

428
00:16:21,904 --> 00:16:24,049
recognized that there was

429
00:16:24,049 --> 00:16:26,390
the need for simplicity in

430
00:16:26,390 --> 00:16:31,820
the overall issue of
identifying options.

431
00:16:31,820 --> 00:16:33,680
We also felt that it

432
00:16:33,680 --> 00:16:35,089
was important to maintain

433
00:16:35,089 --> 00:16:36,710
commercial
agricultural lands for

434
00:16:36,710 --> 00:16:38,660
continued agricultural
production.

435
00:16:38,660 --> 00:16:39,920
We did not want to try and

436
00:16:39,920 --> 00:16:42,259
jeopardize what
we felt was

437
00:16:42,259 --> 00:16:44,840
a major premise in

438
00:16:44,840 --> 00:16:46,850
the statewide
planning goals,

439
00:16:46,850 --> 00:16:49,400
and that we felt that
we were bound by

440
00:16:49,400 --> 00:16:51,320
satisfying the
statutory language

441
00:16:51,320 --> 00:16:53,555
that was currently
in the statutes.

442
00:16:53,555 --> 00:16:55,640
We looked at a number of

443
00:16:55,640 --> 00:16:57,815
ways to meet
those objectives.

444
00:16:57,815 --> 00:17:02,105
Some of those included
minimum lot sizes,

445
00:17:02,105 --> 00:17:04,760
grow sales based
on existing use,

446
00:17:04,760 --> 00:17:06,874
prudent investment,

447
00:17:06,874 --> 00:17:09,155
capability to produce

448
00:17:09,155 --> 00:17:11,104
and the density standard.

449
00:17:11,104 --> 00:17:14,120
Now obviously we didn't
select all of those.

450
00:17:14,120 --> 00:17:15,770
What we did select are

451
00:17:15,770 --> 00:17:18,799
the three options that
you have for you.

452
00:17:18,799 --> 00:17:21,530
And they do, in

453
00:17:21,530 --> 00:17:24,095
my mind, constitute
individual options.

454
00:17:24,095 --> 00:17:25,429
There is no obligation

455
00:17:25,429 --> 00:17:27,200
to meet more than one of

456
00:17:27,200 --> 00:17:30,080
those tests that are

457
00:17:30,080 --> 00:17:31,489
listed within

458
00:17:31,489 --> 00:17:33,560
the recommendation
that we've developed.

459
00:17:33,560 --> 00:17:35,615
There are some
common threads

460
00:17:35,615 --> 00:17:38,599
within those three tests.

461
00:17:38,599 --> 00:17:40,010
They include

462
00:17:40,010 --> 00:17:43,114
a requirement for
current employment,

463
00:17:43,114 --> 00:17:45,259
require that
there be no other

464
00:17:45,259 --> 00:17:48,334
dwelling located on
the subject tract.

465
00:17:48,334 --> 00:17:50,300
And they require that

466
00:17:50,300 --> 00:17:52,099
the tract is
large enough to

467
00:17:52,099 --> 00:17:54,110
represent a
commercial farm or

468
00:17:54,110 --> 00:17:57,140
ranch and not
a field size.

469
00:17:57,140 --> 00:17:59,794
Going through the
individual tests,

470
00:17:59,794 --> 00:18:02,569
the first one was the
one that we felt.

471
00:18:02,569 --> 00:18:05,000
The minimum lot
size threshold.

472
00:18:05,000 --> 00:18:07,925
That should be probably
the most simple,

473
00:18:07,925 --> 00:18:10,159
very clear,
straightforward

474
00:18:10,159 --> 00:18:11,584
to the general public.

475
00:18:11,584 --> 00:18:15,185
And what is

476
00:18:15,185 --> 00:18:19,220
characterized as
arbitrary figures,

477
00:18:19,220 --> 00:18:21,544
I believe is
probably accurate.

478
00:18:21,544 --> 00:18:26,255
We established 160 acre

479
00:18:26,255 --> 00:18:31,684
for agricultural lands
and 324 range lands

480
00:18:31,684 --> 00:18:33,905
as being large enough

481
00:18:33,905 --> 00:18:37,024
to assure that
commercial production

482
00:18:37,024 --> 00:18:39,604
would continue on
the subject tract

483
00:18:39,604 --> 00:18:43,680
and would qualify a
tract for a dwelling.

484
00:18:46,210 --> 00:18:48,409
We intended this test,

485
00:18:48,409 --> 00:18:50,255
as I said before,
to be simple.

486
00:18:50,255 --> 00:18:52,249
And essentially a

487
00:18:52,249 --> 00:18:56,754
non-discretionary
test track

488
00:18:56,754 --> 00:18:59,389
smaller than this
threshold are

489
00:18:59,389 --> 00:19:01,909
these two thresholds
would be able

490
00:19:01,909 --> 00:19:05,029
to qualify under test2,

491
00:19:05,029 --> 00:19:08,479
test3, recognizing
that not

492
00:19:08,479 --> 00:19:10,490
every tract
would be able to

493
00:19:10,490 --> 00:19:15,359
meet each of the
three tests.

494
00:19:15,760 --> 00:19:21,904
Tests, who is a productivity
capability test?

495
00:19:21,904 --> 00:19:24,725
The productivity
capability test

496
00:19:24,725 --> 00:19:28,414
uses two measures for
the subject tract.

497
00:19:28,414 --> 00:19:30,845
It does it by examining

498
00:19:30,845 --> 00:19:34,504
the tracks within an area,

499
00:19:34,504 --> 00:19:37,399
in this case, 1 mi

500
00:19:37,399 --> 00:19:40,819
around the perimeter
of the subject tract.

501
00:19:40,819 --> 00:19:44,120
And you do an
analysis where

502
00:19:44,120 --> 00:19:47,990
the median size and

503
00:19:47,990 --> 00:19:50,870
the median gross income
is calculated in

504
00:19:50,870 --> 00:19:52,430
the subject tract is

505
00:19:52,430 --> 00:19:54,889
compared against
that medium.

506
00:19:54,889 --> 00:19:58,859
In my mind, this is the
most difficult test

507
00:19:58,870 --> 00:20:02,225
to meet and to carry out.

508
00:20:02,225 --> 00:20:04,430
And I think we
felt that it

509
00:20:04,430 --> 00:20:06,830
should be a
little bit more

510
00:20:06,830 --> 00:20:08,690
rigorous because what
we were looking at

511
00:20:08,690 --> 00:20:11,615
here was a
productivity standard.

512
00:20:11,615 --> 00:20:14,359
And based on
capability rather

513
00:20:14,359 --> 00:20:17,495
than based on historic
usage, track.

514
00:20:17,495 --> 00:20:20,959
Number three was an
actual income test

515
00:20:20,959 --> 00:20:22,730
and it was based

516
00:20:22,730 --> 00:20:25,234
on historic use
of the tract,

517
00:20:25,234 --> 00:20:27,740
either the last two

518
00:20:27,740 --> 00:20:30,694
years or three of
the last five years.

519
00:20:30,694 --> 00:20:33,410
And there were wasn't

520
00:20:33,410 --> 00:20:36,739
indicated there was
an income of $80,000

521
00:20:36,739 --> 00:20:40,430
for high-value lands
that we identified and

522
00:20:40,430 --> 00:20:42,980
40,000 for all
other tracks

523
00:20:42,980 --> 00:20:45,019
that were in a
few designation.

524
00:20:45,019 --> 00:20:47,599
And that's a gross
annual sales figure

525
00:20:47,599 --> 00:20:49,505
that must be satisfied.

526
00:20:49,505 --> 00:20:51,739
Or the tract, the tract

527
00:20:51,739 --> 00:20:54,665
producing more than
that, grow sales.

528
00:20:54,665 --> 00:20:58,130
I'll turn it over to
team members that

529
00:20:58,130 --> 00:21:02,300
are with me for
additional comments.

530
00:21:02,300 --> 00:21:05,010
Do you have any questions?

531
00:21:07,210 --> 00:21:10,685
Chairman, Commissioners,
I'm Doug McLain,

532
00:21:10,685 --> 00:21:12,380
planner with
colliculus County.

533
00:21:12,380 --> 00:21:13,849
I don't have a lot to

534
00:21:13,849 --> 00:21:15,439
add by way of explanation,

535
00:21:15,439 --> 00:21:16,549
I'd like to just maybe

536
00:21:16,549 --> 00:21:18,829
stress a couple of things.

537
00:21:18,829 --> 00:21:21,739
You've been at this
for a long time

538
00:21:21,739 --> 00:21:22,849
and I'm sure you

539
00:21:22,849 --> 00:21:24,754
understand this was
not an easy task.

540
00:21:24,754 --> 00:21:26,090
I think it's fair to say

541
00:21:26,090 --> 00:21:27,919
that I'm trying to develop

542
00:21:27,919 --> 00:21:30,410
farmed willing criteria is

543
00:21:30,410 --> 00:21:31,670
like being in a whirlpool.

544
00:21:31,670 --> 00:21:34,069
And it seems like
at the bottom of

545
00:21:34,069 --> 00:21:35,660
that whirlpool is

546
00:21:35,660 --> 00:21:38,029
the definition of
commercial farm.

547
00:21:38,029 --> 00:21:39,635
And what you see

548
00:21:39,635 --> 00:21:41,930
in the three
different tests or

549
00:21:41,930 --> 00:21:44,029
different ways at trying

550
00:21:44,029 --> 00:21:46,564
to get at that definition.

551
00:21:46,564 --> 00:21:49,309
Um, the the,

552
00:21:49,309 --> 00:21:51,860
I think the TRC felt
very strongly that

553
00:21:51,860 --> 00:21:54,889
there is no way to
avoid trying to assign

554
00:21:54,889 --> 00:21:58,384
some value to that
commercial farm.

555
00:21:58,384 --> 00:22:02,240
And that's why you have
numbers like $40,000,

556
00:22:02,240 --> 00:22:04,234
like 160 acres,

557
00:22:04,234 --> 00:22:06,290
terms like the median size

558
00:22:06,290 --> 00:22:07,669
greater than 40,000,

559
00:22:07,669 --> 00:22:10,535
or farms greater
than $10,000.

560
00:22:10,535 --> 00:22:13,340
Those are all valued
judgments and I suppose

561
00:22:13,340 --> 00:22:14,599
it'll be a lot of
argument about

562
00:22:14,599 --> 00:22:16,639
whether those are
correct value.

563
00:22:16,639 --> 00:22:19,429
But it is it was

564
00:22:19,429 --> 00:22:23,029
the the committee's
attempt

565
00:22:23,029 --> 00:22:24,080
at least to come up

566
00:22:24,080 --> 00:22:26,300
with those kinds
of numbers.

567
00:22:26,300 --> 00:22:29,489
That's really all
I have to add.

568
00:22:31,300 --> 00:22:33,725
I guess being the third.

569
00:22:33,725 --> 00:22:35,179
I don't have much to

570
00:22:35,179 --> 00:22:36,619
add to what they've
said except

571
00:22:36,619 --> 00:22:38,450
that I think we
tried to bring

572
00:22:38,450 --> 00:22:40,444
you a broad range
of options here.

573
00:22:40,444 --> 00:22:42,005
Note your name
for the record.

574
00:22:42,005 --> 00:22:43,849
For the record, my
name is Kevin birds

575
00:22:43,849 --> 00:22:45,484
with the Department
of Forestry.

576
00:22:45,484 --> 00:22:47,180
I was one of
those that felt

577
00:22:47,180 --> 00:22:48,529
very strongly that you

578
00:22:48,529 --> 00:22:51,350
wanted to see a broad
range of options.

579
00:22:51,350 --> 00:22:52,820
And we brought you

580
00:22:52,820 --> 00:22:55,745
three different
options that have

581
00:22:55,745 --> 00:22:57,739
different ways
of trying to

582
00:22:57,739 --> 00:23:01,040
keep farmland
in production.

583
00:23:01,040 --> 00:23:04,850
And I don t think that
we had consensus on

584
00:23:04,850 --> 00:23:06,379
every one of these
that we should have

585
00:23:06,379 --> 00:23:09,035
brought every test
forward to you.

586
00:23:09,035 --> 00:23:11,284
I do think that we brought

587
00:23:11,284 --> 00:23:13,669
a good range of options
for you to consider.

588
00:23:13,669 --> 00:23:15,109
There are others
out there as well

589
00:23:15,109 --> 00:23:17,550
that I'm sure that
you'll look at

590
00:23:24,190 --> 00:23:25,670
questions.

591
00:23:25,670 --> 00:23:26,854
Any questions?

592
00:23:26,854 --> 00:23:28,999
Yes, I have a couple
of questions.

593
00:23:28,999 --> 00:23:30,260
Yes.

594
00:23:30,260 --> 00:23:32,059
I had two major problems

595
00:23:32,059 --> 00:23:33,530
of what I found
in your cast.

596
00:23:33,530 --> 00:23:34,579
And the first
is, I'd like to

597
00:23:34,579 --> 00:23:35,600
have you addressed
that effort goes

598
00:23:35,600 --> 00:23:38,554
the most important
one, the $10,000 test.

599
00:23:38,554 --> 00:23:40,070
Now here we had the
legislature just

600
00:23:40,070 --> 00:23:41,659
selected 20,000
and place a

601
00:23:41,659 --> 00:23:44,929
10,000 in your
number two test

602
00:23:44,929 --> 00:23:46,790
as the threshold to

603
00:23:46,790 --> 00:23:49,160
consider it to be
commercial agriculture.

604
00:23:49,160 --> 00:23:50,389
And it seems to me

605
00:23:50,389 --> 00:23:51,919
it takes some
justification.

606
00:23:51,919 --> 00:23:54,140
Go back to the
$10,000 Testament,

607
00:23:54,140 --> 00:23:55,279
particularly as
the Farm Bureau

608
00:23:55,279 --> 00:23:57,049
also came in with
testimony saying

609
00:23:57,049 --> 00:23:58,340
that 20,000 was

610
00:23:58,340 --> 00:23:59,659
a more realistic figure

611
00:23:59,659 --> 00:24:00,559
when you're talking about

612
00:24:00,559 --> 00:24:02,285
productivity as opposed to

613
00:24:02,285 --> 00:24:04,579
dollars per farm or
anything like that.

614
00:24:04,579 --> 00:24:05,539
You want to take that one

615
00:24:05,539 --> 00:24:07,025
before I throw
the other one K.

616
00:24:07,025 --> 00:24:09,949
Let me conceptualize
test too.

617
00:24:09,949 --> 00:24:12,065
I think it's a
misnomer to say

618
00:24:12,065 --> 00:24:15,079
farms greater than 10,000.

619
00:24:15,079 --> 00:24:19,354
What test tube does
is takes every parcel

620
00:24:19,354 --> 00:24:21,230
that's capability
is less than

621
00:24:21,230 --> 00:24:23,975
10,000 and throws it
out automatically says,

622
00:24:23,975 --> 00:24:25,310
we're not going
to take into

623
00:24:25,310 --> 00:24:27,740
account the small
parcels in the air.

624
00:24:27,740 --> 00:24:29,689
Recognizing that
we're going to

625
00:24:29,689 --> 00:24:31,070
look at the rest of those

626
00:24:31,070 --> 00:24:32,179
in an area that's fairly

627
00:24:32,179 --> 00:24:34,429
large at 2000 acre block.

628
00:24:34,429 --> 00:24:36,649
It's my feeling and

629
00:24:36,649 --> 00:24:38,389
I don't have a good
farm background.

630
00:24:38,389 --> 00:24:39,904
You do that.

631
00:24:39,904 --> 00:24:42,470
The farms in the
area are gonna be

632
00:24:42,470 --> 00:24:43,760
made up on core units

633
00:24:43,760 --> 00:24:45,394
on those larger parcels.

634
00:24:45,394 --> 00:24:46,879
And this throws
out the bottom

635
00:24:46,879 --> 00:24:48,999
parse the small parcels,

636
00:24:48,999 --> 00:24:50,464
takes the remainder,

637
00:24:50,464 --> 00:24:52,114
splits them in
half and says,

638
00:24:52,114 --> 00:24:54,530
only on those large
parcels in the area,

639
00:24:54,530 --> 00:24:55,715
are we going to allow

640
00:24:55,715 --> 00:24:57,919
dwellings and then
the other parcels are

641
00:24:57,919 --> 00:24:59,900
available for those to be

642
00:24:59,900 --> 00:25:01,520
accumulated with
those larger

643
00:25:01,520 --> 00:25:02,959
parcels in that area.

644
00:25:02,959 --> 00:25:06,019
And recognizing, I
hope that the scale of

645
00:25:06,019 --> 00:25:07,429
agriculture or the type of

646
00:25:07,429 --> 00:25:09,799
agriculture represented
in that area,

647
00:25:09,799 --> 00:25:12,305
that 2000 acre area
that we're looking at,

648
00:25:12,305 --> 00:25:14,254
that those larger
parcels would

649
00:25:14,254 --> 00:25:16,355
be the logical core units.

650
00:25:16,355 --> 00:25:18,439
And that's kinda how
I conceptualize it,

651
00:25:18,439 --> 00:25:22,910
not that it's a test
greater than 10,000.

652
00:25:22,910 --> 00:25:24,079
Well, I recognize you

653
00:25:24,079 --> 00:25:25,460
must have some
different logic than

654
00:25:25,460 --> 00:25:26,509
I was applying to it and I

655
00:25:26,509 --> 00:25:28,129
wanted to find out
just what that was.

656
00:25:28,129 --> 00:25:29,420
But let me
explain a little

657
00:25:29,420 --> 00:25:30,980
further than what I
think the problem

658
00:25:30,980 --> 00:25:32,689
with that may be and
that you may be in

659
00:25:32,689 --> 00:25:34,129
an area which is what we

660
00:25:34,129 --> 00:25:35,929
would call secondary land.

661
00:25:35,929 --> 00:25:37,399
In other words,
all the, all the

662
00:25:37,399 --> 00:25:39,860
units within that
particular group.

663
00:25:39,860 --> 00:25:44,480
Whether it's on high-value
or ordinary FU,

664
00:25:44,480 --> 00:25:47,329
may well be down close
to this border line.

665
00:25:47,329 --> 00:25:48,259
And in fact, I can

666
00:25:48,259 --> 00:25:49,834
foresee that
you might have

667
00:25:49,834 --> 00:25:51,740
some finger valleys
where you might not

668
00:25:51,740 --> 00:25:53,780
find a single one that
even made 10,000.

669
00:25:53,780 --> 00:25:55,159
I don't quite know
what to do there,

670
00:25:55,159 --> 00:25:57,919
but it seems to me that
when you use that,

671
00:25:57,919 --> 00:26:00,200
I'd like to have
you advance

672
00:26:00,200 --> 00:26:02,149
your thinking a
little further.

673
00:26:02,149 --> 00:26:04,370
And what would be

674
00:26:04,370 --> 00:26:07,639
the result if we use
$20,000 for that figure?

675
00:26:07,639 --> 00:26:08,960
Does that how does that

676
00:26:08,960 --> 00:26:09,919
skew the kinds of

677
00:26:09,919 --> 00:26:11,359
figures that are
going to come out?

678
00:26:11,359 --> 00:26:15,260
I think one of
the concerns is

679
00:26:15,260 --> 00:26:17,509
that 10,000 is

680
00:26:17,509 --> 00:26:19,969
representing a
commercial threshold,

681
00:26:19,969 --> 00:26:21,994
and I don't think
that was our intent.

682
00:26:21,994 --> 00:26:24,890
10,000 is this
floor at which

683
00:26:24,890 --> 00:26:28,084
we begin to look at
commercial tracks,

684
00:26:28,084 --> 00:26:30,335
the median that
you come up with,

685
00:26:30,335 --> 00:26:32,569
both in acreage
size as well

686
00:26:32,569 --> 00:26:35,149
as capability to produce.

687
00:26:35,149 --> 00:26:36,439
It's a capability tests.

688
00:26:36,439 --> 00:26:37,835
You look at the capability

689
00:26:37,835 --> 00:26:39,634
of all of the tracks.

690
00:26:39,634 --> 00:26:42,050
To produce a
certain income

691
00:26:42,050 --> 00:26:45,004
and also look at
their median size.

692
00:26:45,004 --> 00:26:46,219
And so it's the median

693
00:26:46,219 --> 00:26:47,599
that you come up with as

694
00:26:47,599 --> 00:26:49,100
a result of the analysis

695
00:26:49,100 --> 00:26:50,449
of all of those tracks,

696
00:26:50,449 --> 00:26:53,810
that becomes the threshold

697
00:26:53,810 --> 00:26:56,389
or the number at
which I believe

698
00:26:56,389 --> 00:26:58,579
you're looking for
to be commercial to

699
00:26:58,579 --> 00:27:00,799
compare the
subject tracked

700
00:27:00,799 --> 00:27:03,589
against the
10,000 is really

701
00:27:03,589 --> 00:27:04,639
just the floor
at which you

702
00:27:04,639 --> 00:27:06,844
begin the discussion
for commercial.

703
00:27:06,844 --> 00:27:09,379
And I think it's also
important to remember

704
00:27:09,379 --> 00:27:12,109
that this test has
two components.

705
00:27:12,109 --> 00:27:15,004
You also have the
calculations based

706
00:27:15,004 --> 00:27:17,780
on harvested acreage
so that you're

707
00:27:17,780 --> 00:27:19,235
very likely to end up with

708
00:27:19,235 --> 00:27:24,289
a fairly large
median lot size

709
00:27:24,289 --> 00:27:27,019
when you use
harvested acreage

710
00:27:27,019 --> 00:27:28,715
as the, as the basis.

711
00:27:28,715 --> 00:27:30,739
So it's not
only the median

712
00:27:30,739 --> 00:27:33,110
generation finger that
becomes important,

713
00:27:33,110 --> 00:27:35,525
it's also that harvested
acreage figure.

714
00:27:35,525 --> 00:27:37,429
Well, it may well
be. And I'm going to

715
00:27:37,429 --> 00:27:37,759
listen to

716
00:27:37,759 --> 00:27:39,080
the other testimony
that comes here.

717
00:27:39,080 --> 00:27:40,099
But it appears to

718
00:27:40,099 --> 00:27:41,119
me that if you're
in an area of

719
00:27:41,119 --> 00:27:44,570
this largely small
hobby type farms that

720
00:27:44,570 --> 00:27:46,189
could skew the results to

721
00:27:46,189 --> 00:27:47,509
allow a farm
dwelling in one of

722
00:27:47,509 --> 00:27:48,889
those areas that
would not get it

723
00:27:48,889 --> 00:27:50,299
in some other or even if

724
00:27:50,299 --> 00:27:53,315
it were a high-value
or report.

725
00:27:53,315 --> 00:27:55,414
Now let's get to the
other one that I

726
00:27:55,414 --> 00:27:57,049
had this particular
question

727
00:27:57,049 --> 00:27:58,160
raised with me when

728
00:27:58,160 --> 00:28:00,079
I presented this
particular test

729
00:28:00,079 --> 00:28:01,610
to the lung County
Farm Bureau recently

730
00:28:01,610 --> 00:28:05,644
and that was your 116
year 320 flat acreage.

731
00:28:05,644 --> 00:28:08,179
Now I'm sure that you,
as planners all know

732
00:28:08,179 --> 00:28:11,270
that Valley was divided

733
00:28:11,270 --> 00:28:12,470
up with divided up into

734
00:28:12,470 --> 00:28:15,065
48 0s and so on up to 320.

735
00:28:15,065 --> 00:28:16,820
But then the roads
were taken out.

736
00:28:16,820 --> 00:28:18,879
And so almost
everyone who has

737
00:28:18,879 --> 00:28:24,319
a partial or parcel
that was in the 320,

738
00:28:24,319 --> 00:28:26,149
say or 160 acre,

739
00:28:26,149 --> 00:28:27,619
had a road taken
off and probably

740
00:28:27,619 --> 00:28:29,075
it has an acre to
life than that.

741
00:28:29,075 --> 00:28:31,189
Did you look at this
particular problem when

742
00:28:31,189 --> 00:28:33,649
you were calculating
the test?

743
00:28:33,649 --> 00:28:35,449
Are you saying
that the tract

744
00:28:35,449 --> 00:28:37,459
is less than the 40

745
00:28:37,459 --> 00:28:39,245
or I'm saying that

746
00:28:39,245 --> 00:28:41,195
because of subtractions
for roads,

747
00:28:41,195 --> 00:28:42,710
write a partial but

748
00:28:42,710 --> 00:28:44,165
otherwise would have
made your tests,

749
00:28:44,165 --> 00:28:45,109
would not make it.

750
00:28:45,109 --> 00:28:46,819
And feeling what's there

751
00:28:46,819 --> 00:28:47,630
that there I can't

752
00:28:47,630 --> 00:28:48,740
speak for all of
the counties,

753
00:28:48,740 --> 00:28:49,760
but in Union County we

754
00:28:49,760 --> 00:28:52,444
treat 39 acre track that

755
00:28:52,444 --> 00:28:54,620
not 40 because of
road subtractions

756
00:28:54,620 --> 00:28:56,825
as if it were a 40
acre size tract?

757
00:28:56,825 --> 00:28:58,160
Well, I'm sure
you do, but I'm

758
00:28:58,160 --> 00:28:59,629
sure there are some
counties that don't,

759
00:28:59,629 --> 00:29:00,920
and I'd like
to see whether

760
00:29:00,920 --> 00:29:02,480
this problem is
taking care of you

761
00:29:02,480 --> 00:29:03,934
own to the center
of the road

762
00:29:03,934 --> 00:29:06,605
unless it's been a
lack of misconduct.

763
00:29:06,605 --> 00:29:08,840
We actually have an
ordinance provision that

764
00:29:08,840 --> 00:29:10,580
says that that says that

765
00:29:10,580 --> 00:29:12,169
you can if your
deed reads to

766
00:29:12,169 --> 00:29:13,219
the center line
of the road,

767
00:29:13,219 --> 00:29:14,345
you can count that.

768
00:29:14,345 --> 00:29:15,859
In calculating lot size.

769
00:29:15,859 --> 00:29:19,205
It's fair to say
though the TRC didn't

770
00:29:19,205 --> 00:29:21,110
address that issue
and we didn't

771
00:29:21,110 --> 00:29:24,120
think about that
particular problem.

772
00:29:24,580 --> 00:29:27,020
I have a caveat there

773
00:29:27,020 --> 00:29:28,520
unless it was dedicated.

774
00:29:28,520 --> 00:29:30,410
Did you say if

775
00:29:30,410 --> 00:29:32,584
you do not own to the
center of the road,

776
00:29:32,584 --> 00:29:34,279
then there's some reason

777
00:29:34,279 --> 00:29:36,079
why the states
either come in and

778
00:29:36,079 --> 00:29:39,170
purchase that
right-of-way and you no

779
00:29:39,170 --> 00:29:40,939
longer own it or railroad

780
00:29:40,939 --> 00:29:43,055
right-of-way owns
that right-of-way,

781
00:29:43,055 --> 00:29:45,245
and that's a
different situation.

782
00:29:45,245 --> 00:29:47,014
But most county roads

783
00:29:47,014 --> 00:29:49,174
are not acquired in fetal.

784
00:29:49,174 --> 00:29:50,525
Most county roads,

785
00:29:50,525 --> 00:29:52,699
you still own to the
center of the road.

786
00:29:52,699 --> 00:29:54,635
You've granted
an easement?

787
00:29:54,635 --> 00:29:56,149
I can say that in

788
00:29:56,149 --> 00:29:57,529
Lin County it's
not that way

789
00:29:57,529 --> 00:29:58,700
that we had to give

790
00:29:58,700 --> 00:30:00,184
up that particular
particle.

791
00:30:00,184 --> 00:30:02,990
So we would not have
to pay taxes on.

792
00:30:02,990 --> 00:30:04,700
The problem the farmer
had was he was paying

793
00:30:04,700 --> 00:30:06,140
taxes on that and he
didn't want that,

794
00:30:06,140 --> 00:30:07,580
so it was taken
off and now

795
00:30:07,580 --> 00:30:09,064
we actually own slept.

796
00:30:09,064 --> 00:30:10,130
Okay, well, let's
put that on

797
00:30:10,130 --> 00:30:11,089
our list of things
you need to

798
00:30:11,089 --> 00:30:13,325
look at that
extent of mine.

799
00:30:13,325 --> 00:30:15,305
I do want to have
a clarification.

800
00:30:15,305 --> 00:30:17,149
I just wanted to let

801
00:30:17,149 --> 00:30:19,609
commission members know
that when handling it

802
00:30:19,609 --> 00:30:21,649
gives his regular
testimony on

803
00:30:21,649 --> 00:30:24,485
behalf of Union County.

804
00:30:24,485 --> 00:30:27,440
He is going to
walk you through

805
00:30:27,440 --> 00:30:31,370
this production
capability tests and he's

806
00:30:31,370 --> 00:30:33,229
got some overheads
and that'll give you

807
00:30:33,229 --> 00:30:35,239
an opportunity to see
it in greater detail.

808
00:30:35,239 --> 00:30:38,179
So we didn't want
the TRC to spend

809
00:30:38,179 --> 00:30:39,949
too much time discussing

810
00:30:39,949 --> 00:30:41,300
the test at the outset

811
00:30:41,300 --> 00:30:42,409
because it's a
public hearing,

812
00:30:42,409 --> 00:30:43,129
want to make
sure everybody

813
00:30:43,129 --> 00:30:44,090
has a chance to testify,

814
00:30:44,090 --> 00:30:46,790
but he will he will
walk through that test.

815
00:30:46,790 --> 00:30:49,760
I wanted to ask a
clarifying question.

816
00:30:49,760 --> 00:30:50,539
I know whether
it should go to

817
00:30:50,539 --> 00:30:51,530
Hector or whether
it should

818
00:30:51,530 --> 00:30:53,840
go to handling and the
team at the table.

819
00:30:53,840 --> 00:30:57,560
Hector drew a parallel
between the 10,000 and

820
00:30:57,560 --> 00:30:59,750
presumably a 20,000 figure

821
00:30:59,750 --> 00:31:02,239
that must have
been in 3661.

822
00:31:02,239 --> 00:31:04,430
My understanding is in

823
00:31:04,430 --> 00:31:06,049
the context of
your answer,

824
00:31:06,049 --> 00:31:08,959
Those were essentially
two different kinds

825
00:31:08,959 --> 00:31:11,809
of figures and standards,
apples and oranges.

826
00:31:11,809 --> 00:31:14,405
They weren't,
weren't comparable.

827
00:31:14,405 --> 00:31:18,004
You want to maybe
respond to that?

828
00:31:18,004 --> 00:31:22,079
I think I can get the
number that's in 36,

829
00:31:22,079 --> 00:31:24,230
61 is the test for a farm

830
00:31:24,230 --> 00:31:27,230
dwelling in a marginal
lands County.

831
00:31:27,230 --> 00:31:29,840
The number as it's used by

832
00:31:29,840 --> 00:31:31,370
the technical
resource committee is

833
00:31:31,370 --> 00:31:33,799
an inventory tool
and it's used

834
00:31:33,799 --> 00:31:35,779
to distinguish
those parcels

835
00:31:35,779 --> 00:31:37,849
which are not likely to be

836
00:31:37,849 --> 00:31:40,249
contributing to commercial
farming from those

837
00:31:40,249 --> 00:31:42,814
that are not intended
to be a farm.

838
00:31:42,814 --> 00:31:45,079
It's tended to
it's intended to

839
00:31:45,079 --> 00:31:48,529
be a measuring device
for the parcel,

840
00:31:48,529 --> 00:31:50,359
which is probably
large enough to

841
00:31:50,359 --> 00:31:53,220
be contributing to
commercial agriculture.

842
00:31:54,970 --> 00:31:58,280
The questions I have

843
00:31:58,280 --> 00:32:00,814
one district by a
definition question.

844
00:32:00,814 --> 00:32:03,620
I see sprinkled through

845
00:32:03,620 --> 00:32:05,299
the cheat sheet
you gave us

846
00:32:05,299 --> 00:32:08,149
and your report
and so forth.

847
00:32:08,149 --> 00:32:10,009
A backwards and forwards

848
00:32:10,009 --> 00:32:12,080
use a parcel and tracked.

849
00:32:12,080 --> 00:32:13,549
And I wanted to make sure

850
00:32:13,549 --> 00:32:15,319
that those were
intentional.

851
00:32:15,319 --> 00:32:17,255
The words were clear,
carefully chosen,

852
00:32:17,255 --> 00:32:17,929
and I wanted to make

853
00:32:17,929 --> 00:32:18,799
sure everybody
in the audience

854
00:32:18,799 --> 00:32:20,630
understood what you mean

855
00:32:20,630 --> 00:32:23,550
when you say parcel
versus track.

856
00:32:23,680 --> 00:32:27,290
I think our intention
was to be uniform

857
00:32:27,290 --> 00:32:30,479
with the language
that's in 36,

858
00:32:30,479 --> 00:32:33,994
61 and your rules
for 3.4, okay?

859
00:32:33,994 --> 00:32:35,794
And you want
to explain it?

860
00:32:35,794 --> 00:32:37,430
I want make sure the
audience understands.

861
00:32:37,430 --> 00:32:40,265
And because it's sort
of an arcane peas lot,

862
00:32:40,265 --> 00:32:41,900
by definition is something

863
00:32:41,900 --> 00:32:44,315
which is formed
by subdivision.

864
00:32:44,315 --> 00:32:46,699
Parcel is a unit of

865
00:32:46,699 --> 00:32:48,725
land that's formed
by partition.

866
00:32:48,725 --> 00:32:50,314
Attract.

867
00:32:50,314 --> 00:32:52,759
It can be made up of lots.

868
00:32:52,759 --> 00:32:55,369
And parcels were
lots or parcels,

869
00:32:55,369 --> 00:32:58,399
but it's usually
more than one lot

870
00:32:58,399 --> 00:32:59,509
or parcel that are

871
00:32:59,509 --> 00:33:04,909
contiguous and under
the same ownership.

872
00:33:04,909 --> 00:33:05,629
Right?

873
00:33:05,629 --> 00:33:06,049
Okay.

874
00:33:06,049 --> 00:33:07,159
So in a kind of
contexts are

875
00:33:07,159 --> 00:33:09,035
we talking about attract?

876
00:33:09,035 --> 00:33:12,289
It means all the
land that someone

877
00:33:12,289 --> 00:33:15,379
owns that's contiguous.
That's correct.

878
00:33:15,379 --> 00:33:16,309
That's correct.

879
00:33:16,309 --> 00:33:17,044
Okay.

880
00:33:17,044 --> 00:33:18,650
So I'll make sure
everybody findings on

881
00:33:18,650 --> 00:33:19,370
that you didn't dress

882
00:33:19,370 --> 00:33:20,794
the same definition
in our rules.

883
00:33:20,794 --> 00:33:22,099
Check to make
sure everybody

884
00:33:22,099 --> 00:33:23,960
was I do a
process question.

885
00:33:23,960 --> 00:33:24,829
I would be curious

886
00:33:24,829 --> 00:33:26,975
the recommendations
that you forwarded,

887
00:33:26,975 --> 00:33:29,090
would you
characterize those as

888
00:33:29,090 --> 00:33:31,114
having been generated
by consensus

889
00:33:31,114 --> 00:33:32,990
where they generated by

890
00:33:32,990 --> 00:33:36,559
votes that were
characterized by division.

891
00:33:36,559 --> 00:33:39,109
If they were characterized
by division,

892
00:33:39,109 --> 00:33:40,969
how close were
those votes?

893
00:33:40,969 --> 00:33:44,015
Would be curious to
have an inside view of

894
00:33:44,015 --> 00:33:47,120
how decisions were arrived

895
00:33:47,120 --> 00:33:48,560
at and what that process

896
00:33:48,560 --> 00:33:50,899
within the TRC
looked like?

897
00:33:50,899 --> 00:33:53,074
That's a good question and

898
00:33:53,074 --> 00:33:54,740
I think the answer
is that we did it

899
00:33:54,740 --> 00:33:58,205
by consensus and
not by boat.

900
00:33:58,205 --> 00:34:01,129
I think the
Introductory report

901
00:34:01,129 --> 00:34:03,409
that was submitted
to you gives

902
00:34:03,409 --> 00:34:06,619
a fairly representative
description

903
00:34:06,619 --> 00:34:08,360
of some of the issues

904
00:34:08,360 --> 00:34:10,640
for which there were

905
00:34:10,640 --> 00:34:12,260
disagreements or with

906
00:34:12,260 --> 00:34:14,105
which they were
disagreement.

907
00:34:14,105 --> 00:34:15,920
There was a lot
of discussion

908
00:34:15,920 --> 00:34:18,440
about whether
or not we were

909
00:34:18,440 --> 00:34:20,629
trying to regulate who

910
00:34:20,629 --> 00:34:23,300
lived in the
dwelling as opposed

911
00:34:23,300 --> 00:34:26,075
to when

912
00:34:26,075 --> 00:34:28,565
when the dwelling permit
should be issued,

913
00:34:28,565 --> 00:34:29,539
when the permanent for

914
00:34:29,539 --> 00:34:31,279
the glowing
should be issued.

915
00:34:31,279 --> 00:34:34,955
But in general, from
a process standpoint,

916
00:34:34,955 --> 00:34:37,190
I don't remember
taking any boats.

917
00:34:37,190 --> 00:34:39,425
We did this by consensus.

918
00:34:39,425 --> 00:34:40,969
So you would characterize

919
00:34:40,969 --> 00:34:43,189
the product is
having consensus

920
00:34:43,189 --> 00:34:44,719
among the members of

921
00:34:44,719 --> 00:34:46,429
the technical
resource committee

922
00:34:46,429 --> 00:34:48,494
with one or two
abstentions,

923
00:34:48,494 --> 00:34:51,544
the exceptions that are
noted in the report.

924
00:34:51,544 --> 00:34:52,920
Okay.

925
00:34:54,730 --> 00:34:57,500
Well, we thank
you very much for

926
00:34:57,500 --> 00:34:59,614
your laborers and toil

927
00:34:59,614 --> 00:35:01,010
having been through
it ourselves.

928
00:35:01,010 --> 00:35:02,705
We know how hard
it was and we're

929
00:35:02,705 --> 00:35:03,979
very glad to
have some other

930
00:35:03,979 --> 00:35:05,780
minds working on it.

931
00:35:05,780 --> 00:35:07,159
So we'll hear what

932
00:35:07,159 --> 00:35:08,794
the audience
thinks of it now.

933
00:35:08,794 --> 00:35:10,589
Thank you.

934
00:35:26,290 --> 00:35:29,420
I've got at this 0.21

935
00:35:29,420 --> 00:35:31,579
people who've asked
to testify in there,

936
00:35:31,579 --> 00:35:33,890
a couple of more made
dribbling, I imagine.

937
00:35:33,890 --> 00:35:36,540
And that wasn't
referring to you, John.

938
00:35:40,750 --> 00:35:45,500
And dividing this and

939
00:35:45,500 --> 00:35:46,459
trying to figure
out how we can get

940
00:35:46,459 --> 00:35:47,479
out of here by five,

941
00:35:47,479 --> 00:35:49,805
which we had said
that was our goal.

942
00:35:49,805 --> 00:35:52,595
It looks like I can

943
00:35:52,595 --> 00:35:56,344
give 3 min per
person to testify.

944
00:35:56,344 --> 00:35:59,179
Although we may wish

945
00:35:59,179 --> 00:36:01,280
to decide to take
longer time with at

946
00:36:01,280 --> 00:36:03,349
least with Henley's
because we did ask

947
00:36:03,349 --> 00:36:05,780
him to do some
extra work to

948
00:36:05,780 --> 00:36:10,790
prepare his description
of the second test.

949
00:36:10,790 --> 00:36:12,814
So with that caveat,

950
00:36:12,814 --> 00:36:14,089
I'd like to just go
ahead and the order

951
00:36:14,089 --> 00:36:16,140
they were received.

952
00:36:17,260 --> 00:36:21,930
Donald login,
first one here.

953
00:36:33,070 --> 00:36:35,419
Good afternoon.

954
00:36:35,419 --> 00:36:38,580
Members of the commission.

955
00:36:42,400 --> 00:36:44,570
I am Don Logan,

956
00:36:44,570 --> 00:36:46,489
a farmer and a
tree farmer,

957
00:36:46,489 --> 00:36:49,400
located in northern
Washington County.

958
00:36:49,400 --> 00:36:52,910
1989, I was awarded

959
00:36:52,910 --> 00:36:55,219
agriculture's the air for

960
00:36:55,219 --> 00:36:59,450
Washington County 1969.

961
00:36:59,450 --> 00:37:02,060
I was awarded the
state tree farm or

962
00:37:02,060 --> 00:37:07,415
the Year Award is not
my responsibility

963
00:37:07,415 --> 00:37:11,869
here today to enact
any law or there I

964
00:37:11,869 --> 00:37:14,030
would hope in
some small way

965
00:37:14,030 --> 00:37:17,179
I can contribute
to your process.

966
00:37:17,179 --> 00:37:21,620
I farm men like
class 4.6 soils,

967
00:37:21,620 --> 00:37:23,435
and I make it produce

968
00:37:23,435 --> 00:37:26,135
many high-value crops
such as alfalfa,

969
00:37:26,135 --> 00:37:29,240
which produces five
tons to the acre.

970
00:37:29,240 --> 00:37:31,235
I raised a little wheat,

971
00:37:31,235 --> 00:37:35,479
which sometimes makes
100 bushel to the acre.

972
00:37:35,479 --> 00:37:38,630
And we raise some
Christmas trees

973
00:37:38,630 --> 00:37:42,000
which are reconsider
the best in the world.

974
00:37:42,700 --> 00:37:45,575
And we also have
some money.

975
00:37:45,575 --> 00:37:48,019
Acres of
high-value timber,

976
00:37:48,019 --> 00:37:50,644
all with no irrigation.

977
00:37:50,644 --> 00:37:53,630
And I asked where on
this planet earth can

978
00:37:53,630 --> 00:37:57,149
we find such a
wonderful combination?

979
00:37:57,160 --> 00:38:00,290
If we are to
continue farming and

980
00:38:00,290 --> 00:38:03,180
forestry into the future,

981
00:38:03,180 --> 00:38:05,225
will, we won't need

982
00:38:05,225 --> 00:38:08,195
to do two
essential things.

983
00:38:08,195 --> 00:38:12,874
Established farm sizes
as we can continue to,

984
00:38:12,874 --> 00:38:15,960
so we can continue
to compete.

985
00:38:17,740 --> 00:38:20,614
And ration the houses,

986
00:38:20,614 --> 00:38:21,739
housing permits,

987
00:38:21,739 --> 00:38:24,470
and our agriculture
on forested areas.

988
00:38:24,470 --> 00:38:25,639
You see people that

989
00:38:25,639 --> 00:38:26,839
don't have their heart and

990
00:38:26,839 --> 00:38:29,060
soul in the line and

991
00:38:29,060 --> 00:38:31,970
look at our modern
practices differently.

992
00:38:31,970 --> 00:38:34,655
They don't like our
sprays and dusk,

993
00:38:34,655 --> 00:38:36,905
and they don't
like our noise.

994
00:38:36,905 --> 00:38:38,855
And they tend to send our,

995
00:38:38,855 --> 00:38:41,960
set our forests on
fire once in a while.

996
00:38:41,960 --> 00:38:43,700
So we must look at

997
00:38:43,700 --> 00:38:46,174
these issues
very prudently.

998
00:38:46,174 --> 00:38:48,665
As I said in
the beginning.

999
00:38:48,665 --> 00:38:51,019
Alright, farms and
pretty poor soils

1000
00:38:51,019 --> 00:38:52,910
and Washington County.

1001
00:38:52,910 --> 00:38:55,370
And some would say

1002
00:38:55,370 --> 00:38:57,754
that probably
marginal lands.

1003
00:38:57,754 --> 00:39:00,019
But this is not the truth.

1004
00:39:00,019 --> 00:39:03,440
The truth is that
every inch of land

1005
00:39:03,440 --> 00:39:06,739
in Washington County
will produce something.

1006
00:39:06,739 --> 00:39:08,210
It might be filbert,

1007
00:39:08,210 --> 00:39:10,760
might be Christmas
trees, might be wheat,

1008
00:39:10,760 --> 00:39:12,230
it might be grass seed,

1009
00:39:12,230 --> 00:39:13,910
might be clover seed,

1010
00:39:13,910 --> 00:39:17,600
could be grapes,
but it'll produce.

1011
00:39:17,600 --> 00:39:19,280
And it will produce.

1012
00:39:19,280 --> 00:39:26,699
Well, I am told

1013
00:39:26,830 --> 00:39:31,009
that our hill soils
where I live were

1014
00:39:31,009 --> 00:39:32,269
blue in from

1015
00:39:32,269 --> 00:39:35,540
the Columbia Basin
centuries ago.

1016
00:39:35,540 --> 00:39:38,105
Now in 18 83,

1017
00:39:38,105 --> 00:39:41,569
my forefathers
homestead at our farm.

1018
00:39:41,569 --> 00:39:45,200
On the homestead papers,

1019
00:39:45,200 --> 00:39:47,705
they state this is

1020
00:39:47,705 --> 00:39:51,185
a very highly productive
farming forest land.

1021
00:39:51,185 --> 00:39:53,404
We can raise
anything here.

1022
00:39:53,404 --> 00:39:56,129
It's handwritten and ink.

1023
00:39:56,500 --> 00:39:58,549
So I say give us

1024
00:39:58,549 --> 00:40:02,675
a chance and we'll
make it produce.

1025
00:40:02,675 --> 00:40:04,910
But I think the point

1026
00:40:04,910 --> 00:40:08,309
that I want to leave
with you today,

1027
00:40:11,500 --> 00:40:16,859
I hear too much discussion
about lot size.

1028
00:40:17,770 --> 00:40:20,240
I wouldn't be here today

1029
00:40:20,240 --> 00:40:22,820
probably if it wasn't

1030
00:40:22,820 --> 00:40:26,809
for Farmers Home
Administration loan

1031
00:40:26,809 --> 00:40:28,859
many years ago.

1032
00:40:29,200 --> 00:40:33,290
They loaned me the
money to buy a farm

1033
00:40:33,290 --> 00:40:37,474
with because of my
ability to produce.

1034
00:40:37,474 --> 00:40:41,014
Not because I had a
lot of collateral,

1035
00:40:41,014 --> 00:40:43,399
but they seen
something out

1036
00:40:43,399 --> 00:40:45,619
there that I
could make go in

1037
00:40:45,619 --> 00:40:49,085
a farm community come
out and they reviewed

1038
00:40:49,085 --> 00:40:53,375
the situation and
give me the loan.

1039
00:40:53,375 --> 00:40:55,849
And I'm very grateful for

1040
00:40:55,849 --> 00:41:00,410
this part of our system
in the United States.

1041
00:41:00,410 --> 00:41:04,970
I see today some
young people

1042
00:41:04,970 --> 00:41:11,314
in our county that are
doing a very good job.

1043
00:41:11,314 --> 00:41:14,539
But they can't
build a house on

1044
00:41:14,539 --> 00:41:20,315
their property because
of restrictions,

1045
00:41:20,315 --> 00:41:22,860
lot size or something.

1046
00:41:23,440 --> 00:41:26,629
I think if we had
a committee in

1047
00:41:26,629 --> 00:41:30,035
the county to
review these people

1048
00:41:30,035 --> 00:41:31,819
and give them a
chance if they

1049
00:41:31,819 --> 00:41:33,754
have if they've planted

1050
00:41:33,754 --> 00:41:36,484
trees and prove that land

1051
00:41:36,484 --> 00:41:38,405
and made it produce,

1052
00:41:38,405 --> 00:41:40,520
they should be rewarded.

1053
00:41:40,520 --> 00:41:42,829
Not the phone Ne

1054
00:41:42,829 --> 00:41:46,519
$10,000 thing that
we've had in the past.

1055
00:41:46,519 --> 00:41:48,559
I see too much of
that around me.

1056
00:41:48,559 --> 00:41:52,040
But the guy that's
doing justice

1057
00:41:52,040 --> 00:41:55,295
to the land and
making it produce,

1058
00:41:55,295 --> 00:41:57,545
there should be a
provision for that.

1059
00:41:57,545 --> 00:41:59,570
Thank you. Thank you.

1060
00:41:59,570 --> 00:42:01,460
Any questions
for Mr. Logan?

1061
00:42:01,460 --> 00:42:03,589
I have a question.
Yeah. This may

1062
00:42:03,589 --> 00:42:05,509
be a technical kind

1063
00:42:05,509 --> 00:42:06,290
of question that you

1064
00:42:06,290 --> 00:42:07,579
haven't really engaged in.

1065
00:42:07,579 --> 00:42:10,009
And if you're not familiar
with the subject,

1066
00:42:10,009 --> 00:42:11,330
just say you're
not familiar

1067
00:42:11,330 --> 00:42:12,694
and we'll end it at that.

1068
00:42:12,694 --> 00:42:14,854
Washington
County is what's

1069
00:42:14,854 --> 00:42:17,045
known as a marginal
land county.

1070
00:42:17,045 --> 00:42:19,760
And if you're conversant

1071
00:42:19,760 --> 00:42:21,905
with what that
means, I'm curious,

1072
00:42:21,905 --> 00:42:24,800
if you think that

1073
00:42:24,800 --> 00:42:28,684
high-value
farmland kinds of

1074
00:42:28,684 --> 00:42:32,240
standard should apply
to Washington County,

1075
00:42:32,240 --> 00:42:36,349
which is a statutory
marginal and county,

1076
00:42:36,349 --> 00:42:38,029
are you conversant
with that whole thing?

1077
00:42:38,029 --> 00:42:42,154
And I am familiar with
your marginal lands.

1078
00:42:42,154 --> 00:42:43,669
My answer to that would

1079
00:42:43,669 --> 00:42:45,455
be the throat of
the thing out.

1080
00:42:45,455 --> 00:42:47,659
We don't have
marginal lands

1081
00:42:47,659 --> 00:42:50,255
in Washington County.

1082
00:42:50,255 --> 00:42:52,460
Maybe it's made
that way from

1083
00:42:52,460 --> 00:42:55,204
lot sizes or something
like that, but

1084
00:42:55,204 --> 00:42:57,724
I don't care what
the lot size is.

1085
00:42:57,724 --> 00:42:59,240
I can grow a tree on it

1086
00:42:59,240 --> 00:43:01,685
and I can make it produce.

1087
00:43:01,685 --> 00:43:04,310
Let me follow up
with one question.

1088
00:43:04,310 --> 00:43:06,260
The legislature
confronted that question

1089
00:43:06,260 --> 00:43:08,285
and House Bill 36, 61.

1090
00:43:08,285 --> 00:43:08,929
Yes.

1091
00:43:08,929 --> 00:43:10,579
And they decided to

1092
00:43:10,579 --> 00:43:13,670
retain foreign lands
for the two counties,

1093
00:43:13,670 --> 00:43:15,409
so we really don't
have the authority

1094
00:43:15,409 --> 00:43:18,739
to them to alter what
the legislature did,

1095
00:43:18,739 --> 00:43:20,449
but we do have
the authority

1096
00:43:20,449 --> 00:43:21,709
to make the decision that

1097
00:43:21,709 --> 00:43:25,010
the high-value farmland
standard should

1098
00:43:25,010 --> 00:43:26,629
apply in Washington County

1099
00:43:26,629 --> 00:43:28,730
even though there are
marginal and county.

1100
00:43:28,730 --> 00:43:30,710
So should I interpret
your testimony

1101
00:43:30,710 --> 00:43:32,600
to mean if you
can't throw it out,

1102
00:43:32,600 --> 00:43:35,390
at least the high-value
farmland criteria OK.

1103
00:43:35,390 --> 00:43:38,074
To apply is certainly
should be protected.

1104
00:43:38,074 --> 00:43:40,709
Yes. Okay.

1105
00:43:40,990 --> 00:43:43,235
Questions.

1106
00:43:43,235 --> 00:43:47,460
Thanks very much. You
bet. Kevin Harrison.

1107
00:43:50,860 --> 00:43:52,940
Just so that
everybody knows,

1108
00:43:52,940 --> 00:43:55,640
as you get to 1 min less
than your testimony,

1109
00:43:55,640 --> 00:43:57,590
I will put this thing
up here so you can see

1110
00:43:57,590 --> 00:44:02,224
it gives you an idea
about where you are.

1111
00:44:02,224 --> 00:44:04,235
Thanks very much.

1112
00:44:04,235 --> 00:44:05,554
My name is Kevin Harrison

1113
00:44:05,554 --> 00:44:06,845
from the shoots County.

1114
00:44:06,845 --> 00:44:08,270
And I have the pleasure of

1115
00:44:08,270 --> 00:44:10,680
representing the
county here today.

1116
00:44:10,900 --> 00:44:14,044
I'm not to be brief.

1117
00:44:14,044 --> 00:44:16,160
I know that you've
got a busy schedule.

1118
00:44:16,160 --> 00:44:17,839
The first point
I'd like to make

1119
00:44:17,839 --> 00:44:19,234
is that we object to

1120
00:44:19,234 --> 00:44:24,335
the acre thresholds and
the size thresholds,

1121
00:44:24,335 --> 00:44:26,869
acre and income thresholds

1122
00:44:26,869 --> 00:44:29,254
that were recommended
by the TRC.

1123
00:44:29,254 --> 00:44:31,850
We believe that
they're arbitrary.

1124
00:44:31,850 --> 00:44:35,390
And the key charge

1125
00:44:35,390 --> 00:44:37,519
or the basic
charge given to

1126
00:44:37,519 --> 00:44:39,424
the committee was to link

1127
00:44:39,424 --> 00:44:41,570
new farm dwellings to

1128
00:44:41,570 --> 00:44:43,835
a commercial scale
of agriculture.

1129
00:44:43,835 --> 00:44:45,199
And as far as we can tell,

1130
00:44:45,199 --> 00:44:46,279
there is no definition of

1131
00:44:46,279 --> 00:44:48,560
commercial scale
agriculture.

1132
00:44:48,560 --> 00:44:50,570
A definition of commercial

1133
00:44:50,570 --> 00:44:52,580
agriculture enterprise
in the rule.

1134
00:44:52,580 --> 00:44:54,094
And it talks about

1135
00:44:54,094 --> 00:44:55,159
those farmers making

1136
00:44:55,159 --> 00:44:56,390
a substantial contribution

1137
00:44:56,390 --> 00:44:58,039
to a local areas

1138
00:44:58,039 --> 00:45:00,304
existing agricultural
economy.

1139
00:45:00,304 --> 00:45:02,089
There's no documentation
to show how

1140
00:45:02,089 --> 00:45:03,559
these sizes are income

1141
00:45:03,559 --> 00:45:06,020
thresholds relate
to that definition.

1142
00:45:06,020 --> 00:45:07,910
So therefore,
these figures

1143
00:45:07,910 --> 00:45:10,085
are unconnected to

1144
00:45:10,085 --> 00:45:13,610
the definition of
commercial agriculture

1145
00:45:13,610 --> 00:45:15,305
and are therefore
arbitrary

1146
00:45:15,305 --> 00:45:16,939
and we object to that.

1147
00:45:16,939 --> 00:45:18,590
More importantly,

1148
00:45:18,590 --> 00:45:20,885
and perhaps more
objectionable is

1149
00:45:20,885 --> 00:45:23,329
the change made to

1150
00:45:23,329 --> 00:45:26,659
the TRC
recommendation which

1151
00:45:26,659 --> 00:45:29,640
talks about
temporary dwellings.

1152
00:45:30,430 --> 00:45:33,320
These changes came
at the last minute.

1153
00:45:33,320 --> 00:45:34,609
I believe that we receive

1154
00:45:34,609 --> 00:45:36,619
copies of them
two days ago.

1155
00:45:36,619 --> 00:45:38,480
To our knowledge,
there were not part of

1156
00:45:38,480 --> 00:45:40,220
the public discussion of

1157
00:45:40,220 --> 00:45:42,424
the farm going criteria.

1158
00:45:42,424 --> 00:45:45,440
These changes
recommend representing

1159
00:45:45,440 --> 00:45:46,639
a radical departure

1160
00:45:46,639 --> 00:45:48,440
from what the TRC had

1161
00:45:48,440 --> 00:45:50,479
recommended and what the,

1162
00:45:50,479 --> 00:45:51,649
how the program had been

1163
00:45:51,649 --> 00:45:53,600
implemented in the past.

1164
00:45:53,600 --> 00:45:55,399
We believe that adding

1165
00:45:55,399 --> 00:45:57,319
these adding

1166
00:45:57,319 --> 00:45:59,045
these provisions at
the last minute and

1167
00:45:59,045 --> 00:46:02,044
this kind of manner
or presents really

1168
00:46:02,044 --> 00:46:03,710
a complete breach
of trust and

1169
00:46:03,710 --> 00:46:05,540
the public
decision-making process.

1170
00:46:05,540 --> 00:46:06,890
And we also
believe that it's

1171
00:46:06,890 --> 00:46:08,119
bad public policy and the

1172
00:46:08,119 --> 00:46:10,439
Commission on a discarded.

1173
00:46:10,630 --> 00:46:14,300
Notwithstanding those
objections, I'd

1174
00:46:14,300 --> 00:46:17,330
like to talk about the

1175
00:46:17,330 --> 00:46:20,629
three the three
test methodology

1176
00:46:20,629 --> 00:46:22,130
and I guess the shoots
County supports

1177
00:46:22,130 --> 00:46:24,485
that that approach.

1178
00:46:24,485 --> 00:46:26,930
We lived as we believe
there's a great amount

1179
00:46:26,930 --> 00:46:28,759
of diversity in
agriculture in this state.

1180
00:46:28,759 --> 00:46:30,229
We see it in our
county and you

1181
00:46:30,229 --> 00:46:32,330
see it as you go from
county to county.

1182
00:46:32,330 --> 00:46:34,850
And there is
no single test

1183
00:46:34,850 --> 00:46:37,400
that will be sensitive
to that diversity.

1184
00:46:37,400 --> 00:46:39,469
The approach that the TRC

1185
00:46:39,469 --> 00:46:42,965
recommends is
flexible enough to,

1186
00:46:42,965 --> 00:46:44,944
to pick up variations

1187
00:46:44,944 --> 00:46:46,189
in the scale of

1188
00:46:46,189 --> 00:46:48,604
agriculture and
we support it.

1189
00:46:48,604 --> 00:46:50,209
It just so happens

1190
00:46:50,209 --> 00:46:51,410
that shoots
County has been

1191
00:46:51,410 --> 00:46:52,639
using a very
similar system

1192
00:46:52,639 --> 00:46:53,885
for the last year or so.

1193
00:46:53,885 --> 00:46:56,989
And we believe that
based on our experience,

1194
00:46:56,989 --> 00:46:59,494
this kind of
approach works.

1195
00:46:59,494 --> 00:47:02,870
The strength of
this approach

1196
00:47:02,870 --> 00:47:05,599
lies in having
the three tests.

1197
00:47:05,599 --> 00:47:08,269
And that if you have a
delete any one test,

1198
00:47:08,269 --> 00:47:11,060
that this
methodology would

1199
00:47:11,060 --> 00:47:12,920
not be as effective.

1200
00:47:12,920 --> 00:47:14,569
My last point is,

1201
00:47:14,569 --> 00:47:17,674
is that you may find
some resistance to

1202
00:47:17,674 --> 00:47:22,160
the detest to the
capability tests,

1203
00:47:22,160 --> 00:47:24,185
this radius test.

1204
00:47:24,185 --> 00:47:29,960
It involves several
new concepts

1205
00:47:29,960 --> 00:47:32,780
and reviewing
agricultural lands.

1206
00:47:32,780 --> 00:47:35,750
Primarily the use of
assessors data and

1207
00:47:35,750 --> 00:47:37,894
estimating potential
gross sales

1208
00:47:37,894 --> 00:47:39,829
based on assessors data.

1209
00:47:39,829 --> 00:47:42,665
And understand I
understand that

1210
00:47:42,665 --> 00:47:45,955
that the process appears

1211
00:47:45,955 --> 00:47:49,249
complicated and it's
unfamiliar to people.

1212
00:47:49,249 --> 00:47:51,560
And that may represent
a barrier to

1213
00:47:51,560 --> 00:47:54,710
people to adopt
such a system.

1214
00:47:54,710 --> 00:47:56,539
But again, the
shoots County

1215
00:47:56,539 --> 00:47:58,055
has been using
a database in

1216
00:47:58,055 --> 00:48:00,229
a system made up of

1217
00:48:00,229 --> 00:48:02,809
Assessors records for
the last year or so.

1218
00:48:02,809 --> 00:48:06,139
And we believe
the system works.

1219
00:48:06,139 --> 00:48:09,169
We can train our
planners how to use the,

1220
00:48:09,169 --> 00:48:10,925
the program, how to
use the database.

1221
00:48:10,925 --> 00:48:13,295
We can explain
the key elements.

1222
00:48:13,295 --> 00:48:15,529
Of the database or
the methodology

1223
00:48:15,529 --> 00:48:16,670
to people at the counter

1224
00:48:16,670 --> 00:48:18,274
and to our elected
officials.

1225
00:48:18,274 --> 00:48:20,344
And we can get a result

1226
00:48:20,344 --> 00:48:22,879
at our desk when we have

1227
00:48:22,879 --> 00:48:25,699
an inquiry within 30 min

1228
00:48:25,699 --> 00:48:27,769
or perhaps an
hour, the outside.

1229
00:48:27,769 --> 00:48:31,084
So we think the
system works.

1230
00:48:31,084 --> 00:48:33,680
We've tested it
and we supported.

1231
00:48:33,680 --> 00:48:34,340
Okay.

1232
00:48:34,340 --> 00:48:35,180
Thank you very much.

1233
00:48:35,180 --> 00:48:35,525
Okay.

1234
00:48:35,525 --> 00:48:36,050
Hold on.

1235
00:48:36,050 --> 00:48:38,430
Let me questions.

1236
00:48:39,340 --> 00:48:42,034
Would you clarify for me

1237
00:48:42,034 --> 00:48:43,939
this comment
about the breach

1238
00:48:43,939 --> 00:48:45,620
of faith and trust?

1239
00:48:45,620 --> 00:48:47,659
I want to know what
you're referring to.

1240
00:48:47,659 --> 00:48:49,910
Are you saying that
the staff changed

1241
00:48:49,910 --> 00:48:52,010
the technical
committees report

1242
00:48:52,010 --> 00:48:53,285
before they gave it to us.

1243
00:48:53,285 --> 00:48:54,740
We believe that
the addition of

1244
00:48:54,740 --> 00:48:56,179
the provisions
for temporary

1245
00:48:56,179 --> 00:48:57,050
but where is this?

1246
00:48:57,050 --> 00:49:00,544
In addition, we have

1247
00:49:00,544 --> 00:49:01,760
a state technical
and resource

1248
00:49:01,760 --> 00:49:02,899
committee report

1249
00:49:02,899 --> 00:49:05,219
that runs six pages long.

1250
00:49:05,260 --> 00:49:07,654
That Are you saying that

1251
00:49:07,654 --> 00:49:10,565
the staff change that
before that went to us?

1252
00:49:10,565 --> 00:49:12,440
Are you are you
talking about

1253
00:49:12,440 --> 00:49:14,030
the staff
recommendation to

1254
00:49:14,030 --> 00:49:17,329
us for apart from this,

1255
00:49:17,329 --> 00:49:18,439
I'm trying to
figure out what was

1256
00:49:18,439 --> 00:49:21,469
the what's the breaches
where as we were

1257
00:49:21,469 --> 00:49:26,030
following the the
communications

1258
00:49:26,030 --> 00:49:27,200
from the Technical
Resource

1259
00:49:27,200 --> 00:49:29,014
Committee to
the commission,

1260
00:49:29,014 --> 00:49:33,679
we we saw the
recommendation

1261
00:49:33,679 --> 00:49:35,869
for the three tests
system. Right.

1262
00:49:35,869 --> 00:49:37,594
And then falling that

1263
00:49:37,594 --> 00:49:41,450
was the addition of

1264
00:49:41,450 --> 00:49:43,160
this language for
temporary use dwelling.

1265
00:49:43,160 --> 00:49:45,450
And what document
are you talking?

1266
00:49:45,550 --> 00:49:48,154
In the step?

1267
00:49:48,154 --> 00:49:49,685
It's attached
to the staff?

1268
00:49:49,685 --> 00:49:50,540
February 11.

1269
00:49:50,540 --> 00:49:51,905
Is that okay?

1270
00:49:51,905 --> 00:49:53,884
So it's not so

1271
00:49:53,884 --> 00:49:56,480
this is the staff
recommendation to us.

1272
00:49:56,480 --> 00:49:57,275
That's right.

1273
00:49:57,275 --> 00:49:57,740
Okay.

1274
00:49:57,740 --> 00:49:58,909
That's not a I
just want to

1275
00:49:58,909 --> 00:50:00,230
say that's not a
breach of trust.

1276
00:50:00,230 --> 00:50:03,260
I mean, the staff, we
employ them to give us

1277
00:50:03,260 --> 00:50:06,665
their advice and
I'm concerned only,

1278
00:50:06,665 --> 00:50:08,659
I want to make sure
that we receive

1279
00:50:08,659 --> 00:50:10,175
the technical
advisory committees

1280
00:50:10,175 --> 00:50:11,479
report as they wrote it.

1281
00:50:11,479 --> 00:50:12,499
And I I think you're

1282
00:50:12,499 --> 00:50:13,775
saying we did
receive that.

1283
00:50:13,775 --> 00:50:15,695
There's no
alteration of that.

1284
00:50:15,695 --> 00:50:17,360
I guess we feel
like there wasn't

1285
00:50:17,360 --> 00:50:19,310
input on that
particular aspect.

1286
00:50:19,310 --> 00:50:19,790
Fine. Okay.

1287
00:50:19,790 --> 00:50:22,459
I can understand
that, but still,

1288
00:50:22,459 --> 00:50:25,039
we do ask the staff to
give us their counsel,

1289
00:50:25,039 --> 00:50:28,580
and so it's perfectly
proper form to do that.

1290
00:50:28,580 --> 00:50:30,500
I understand
your point too,

1291
00:50:30,500 --> 00:50:32,749
but I just didn't
want to leave it

1292
00:50:32,749 --> 00:50:35,554
that they had changed
your report somehow?

1293
00:50:35,554 --> 00:50:36,800
No, it didn't have I'm I'm

1294
00:50:36,800 --> 00:50:38,299
not I'm not saying that.

1295
00:50:38,299 --> 00:50:39,754
My concern is that

1296
00:50:39,754 --> 00:50:43,790
a very substantial
modification to

1297
00:50:43,790 --> 00:50:45,409
the to the
recommendation of

1298
00:50:45,409 --> 00:50:48,409
the TRC came in two days
before this hearing.

1299
00:50:48,409 --> 00:50:48,874
Okay.

1300
00:50:48,874 --> 00:50:50,630
But the staff didn't
represent to us that it

1301
00:50:50,630 --> 00:50:52,684
was the TRC is referent
recommendation.

1302
00:50:52,684 --> 00:50:53,359
Okay.

1303
00:50:53,359 --> 00:50:55,009
Alright. Thanks, Mr.

1304
00:50:55,009 --> 00:50:55,910
Chair.

1305
00:50:55,910 --> 00:50:57,559
Not the time to point

1306
00:50:57,559 --> 00:50:59,690
out conflicts of
interests or anything,

1307
00:50:59,690 --> 00:51:01,519
but I would like to
note for the record

1308
00:51:01,519 --> 00:51:04,054
that the testimony that

1309
00:51:04,054 --> 00:51:06,679
Kevin Harrison's
submitted does

1310
00:51:06,679 --> 00:51:10,320
have my signature on it
in another capacity.

1311
00:51:11,800 --> 00:51:14,630
Okay. Thanks.

1312
00:51:14,630 --> 00:51:17,369
Diana Gardner.

1313
00:51:34,440 --> 00:51:36,549
Good afternoon.

1314
00:51:36,549 --> 00:51:39,939
I'm Diana Gardner from
med for the reagan.

1315
00:51:39,939 --> 00:51:43,375
Mr. Chairman and staff
and Commissioners.

1316
00:51:43,375 --> 00:51:44,890
I'm glad to be here today.

1317
00:51:44,890 --> 00:51:47,409
I'm representing four
people actually in

1318
00:51:47,409 --> 00:51:50,664
speaking you to take
today, all farmers.

1319
00:51:50,664 --> 00:51:53,830
I want to summarize the
points that we have

1320
00:51:53,830 --> 00:51:54,760
an agreement and I

1321
00:51:54,760 --> 00:51:55,869
hope that you
will have time

1322
00:51:55,869 --> 00:51:57,130
to read all the documents

1323
00:51:57,130 --> 00:51:58,330
that I've given you.

1324
00:51:58,330 --> 00:52:00,610
I hope because one
of them is so very

1325
00:52:00,610 --> 00:52:03,144
impressive to read
a good part of it.

1326
00:52:03,144 --> 00:52:05,680
As part of my testimony

1327
00:52:05,680 --> 00:52:07,840
of the people that I am

1328
00:52:07,840 --> 00:52:09,490
speaking for in
Jackson County,

1329
00:52:09,490 --> 00:52:11,559
as I said, are all
farmers with acreage

1330
00:52:11,559 --> 00:52:14,250
is up to about
3,000 acres.

1331
00:52:14,250 --> 00:52:16,280
We agree that there is

1332
00:52:16,280 --> 00:52:20,300
an oversupply of housing
in rural areas in

1333
00:52:20,300 --> 00:52:22,519
Jackson County and that
this is threatening

1334
00:52:22,519 --> 00:52:25,264
to commercial
farming because

1335
00:52:25,264 --> 00:52:27,650
of conflicts that
it creates with

1336
00:52:27,650 --> 00:52:29,809
farming practices
and because of

1337
00:52:29,809 --> 00:52:32,794
the inflation of land
values that occurs,

1338
00:52:32,794 --> 00:52:34,850
which prevents the ability

1339
00:52:34,850 --> 00:52:37,429
to expand and even
dip startup farming.

1340
00:52:37,429 --> 00:52:40,234
We think that used
housing is a sensible,

1341
00:52:40,234 --> 00:52:42,350
imprudent thing for
a startup farmer

1342
00:52:42,350 --> 00:52:44,180
to choose to buy.

1343
00:52:44,180 --> 00:52:46,339
That because of his
high startup costs,

1344
00:52:46,339 --> 00:52:47,359
you probably can't afford

1345
00:52:47,359 --> 00:52:48,640
to the house as well.

1346
00:52:48,640 --> 00:52:51,100
And there's plenty
of houses out there.

1347
00:52:51,100 --> 00:52:53,079
We think that
adding houses is

1348
00:52:53,079 --> 00:52:55,299
contrary to the
goal three,

1349
00:52:55,299 --> 00:52:57,129
admonition to preserve

1350
00:52:57,129 --> 00:52:59,274
farmland performed uses.

1351
00:52:59,274 --> 00:53:00,849
This situation of

1352
00:53:00,849 --> 00:53:03,790
high density rural
housing already.

1353
00:53:03,790 --> 00:53:07,014
We think that tests to

1354
00:53:07,014 --> 00:53:10,135
invites non Bona
fide approvals

1355
00:53:10,135 --> 00:53:11,395
for farm dwellings,

1356
00:53:11,395 --> 00:53:13,569
that the media and the
use of a median with

1357
00:53:13,569 --> 00:53:16,625
the floor,
$10,000.10 acres.

1358
00:53:16,625 --> 00:53:20,789
Will greatly pull
down the acreage and

1359
00:53:20,789 --> 00:53:22,680
an income minimums so

1360
00:53:22,680 --> 00:53:23,969
that you'll end up loading

1361
00:53:23,969 --> 00:53:28,200
your your mid point
with small parcels.

1362
00:53:28,200 --> 00:53:30,209
We also believed
that you should

1363
00:53:30,209 --> 00:53:32,370
define temporary
for the counties if

1364
00:53:32,370 --> 00:53:34,604
you're going to use
temporary and test one

1365
00:53:34,604 --> 00:53:37,440
because counties can I

1366
00:53:37,440 --> 00:53:40,215
use a lot of
flexibility there.

1367
00:53:40,215 --> 00:53:42,569
Now, I would like to read

1368
00:53:42,569 --> 00:53:44,685
the letter from Mr. Henry,

1369
00:53:44,685 --> 00:53:46,859
who is an
impressive person

1370
00:53:46,859 --> 00:53:48,599
because he is
the manager of

1371
00:53:48,599 --> 00:53:50,310
all of the orchard
line for Harry

1372
00:53:50,310 --> 00:53:52,634
invaded Bear Creek
corporation.

1373
00:53:52,634 --> 00:53:53,955
I would suspect that's
going to take your

1374
00:53:53,955 --> 00:53:54,749
considerably more than

1375
00:53:54,749 --> 00:53:55,739
the minute you have left.

1376
00:53:55,739 --> 00:53:57,000
So you might want
to just summarize

1377
00:53:57,000 --> 00:53:58,185
his points.

1378
00:53:58,185 --> 00:54:00,974
1,900 acres in 20 parcels.

1379
00:54:00,974 --> 00:54:03,060
He's fighting
what he calls

1380
00:54:03,060 --> 00:54:05,250
the border conflicts
constantly

1381
00:54:05,250 --> 00:54:09,419
because of large movements

1382
00:54:09,419 --> 00:54:11,310
of people without
a rural point

1383
00:54:11,310 --> 00:54:13,350
of view into rural areas.

1384
00:54:13,350 --> 00:54:16,185
Because he believes that

1385
00:54:16,185 --> 00:54:18,570
these impacts
are threatening

1386
00:54:18,570 --> 00:54:22,200
his business and the
continued operation

1387
00:54:22,200 --> 00:54:23,429
of Harry and David in

1388
00:54:23,429 --> 00:54:25,780
the district
is threatened.

1389
00:54:26,210 --> 00:54:28,380
The corporation feels

1390
00:54:28,380 --> 00:54:29,909
very challenged by this,

1391
00:54:29,909 --> 00:54:30,959
and they feel
that they are

1392
00:54:30,959 --> 00:54:32,234
not being backed up

1393
00:54:32,234 --> 00:54:34,770
by the local
planning department.

1394
00:54:34,770 --> 00:54:36,299
In fact, they are often

1395
00:54:36,299 --> 00:54:37,229
working against

1396
00:54:37,229 --> 00:54:38,909
the local planning
department.

1397
00:54:38,909 --> 00:54:43,229
And Mr. Henry appeals
to the commission to

1398
00:54:43,229 --> 00:54:46,079
assist in their
continued operation

1399
00:54:46,079 --> 00:54:47,534
of these orchard lands.

1400
00:54:47,534 --> 00:54:50,429
He gives an example
which is really

1401
00:54:50,429 --> 00:54:53,130
disheartening of a walnut

1402
00:54:53,130 --> 00:54:56,170
and filbert phony
farm dwelling.

1403
00:54:57,290 --> 00:54:59,775
He finds that buffering

1404
00:54:59,775 --> 00:55:01,169
as required by
the county from

1405
00:55:01,169 --> 00:55:02,549
non-farm dwellings is not

1406
00:55:02,549 --> 00:55:04,499
required for
farm dwellings.

1407
00:55:04,499 --> 00:55:08,055
And that dwellings
that are not

1408
00:55:08,055 --> 00:55:10,335
sympathetic to farming
on the borders

1409
00:55:10,335 --> 00:55:13,094
will prevent the operation
of his orchards.

1410
00:55:13,094 --> 00:55:14,729
So he's very
concerned about

1411
00:55:14,729 --> 00:55:16,110
the decisions that
the commission

1412
00:55:16,110 --> 00:55:17,654
will make

1413
00:55:17,654 --> 00:55:21,074
regarding the farm
dwelling criteria.

1414
00:55:21,074 --> 00:55:22,949
I do hope you
have time to read

1415
00:55:22,949 --> 00:55:24,419
his letter and
also the relative

1416
00:55:24,419 --> 00:55:27,869
from me and my husband
and Mr. Coolidge.

1417
00:55:27,869 --> 00:55:28,649
Thank you.

1418
00:55:28,649 --> 00:55:29,354
Thank you.

1419
00:55:29,354 --> 00:55:30,900
Appreciate your coming
all the way from MIT

1420
00:55:30,900 --> 00:55:33,579
for any shouted
me on horses.

1421
00:55:33,620 --> 00:55:35,910
Questions.

1422
00:55:35,910 --> 00:55:37,814
Thank you. Thank
you very much.

1423
00:55:37,814 --> 00:55:42,880
Appreciate it.
Dave, Josie.

1424
00:55:49,400 --> 00:55:53,320
Dave, Josie,
Washington County.

1425
00:55:53,360 --> 00:55:56,399
I would be
interested in seeing

1426
00:55:56,399 --> 00:56:00,375
a restriction on
the placement

1427
00:56:00,375 --> 00:56:02,700
of the farm or
non-pharm dwellings on

1428
00:56:02,700 --> 00:56:07,125
parcels that are
part of tracks?

1429
00:56:07,125 --> 00:56:09,719
There's a number
of tracks in

1430
00:56:09,719 --> 00:56:12,764
my county that I
presently take care of.

1431
00:56:12,764 --> 00:56:15,840
That has been
partially years ago.

1432
00:56:15,840 --> 00:56:18,000
No dwellings are
on them yet.

1433
00:56:18,000 --> 00:56:20,280
But as the
dwellings go in,

1434
00:56:20,280 --> 00:56:21,930
the people are
allowed to prison,

1435
00:56:21,930 --> 00:56:23,250
to police those
dwellings wherever

1436
00:56:23,250 --> 00:56:25,890
they choose on
that partial,

1437
00:56:25,890 --> 00:56:29,820
which creates problems in

1438
00:56:29,820 --> 00:56:32,340
efficiency and
taking care of

1439
00:56:32,340 --> 00:56:33,569
the land that is left

1440
00:56:33,569 --> 00:56:35,670
after the dwelling
is placed.

1441
00:56:35,670 --> 00:56:39,374
And if this could
be incorporated,

1442
00:56:39,374 --> 00:56:41,939
I feel it would
be beneficial to

1443
00:56:41,939 --> 00:56:43,949
restrict where
the dwellings are

1444
00:56:43,949 --> 00:56:48,584
physically placed on
parcels within a tract.

1445
00:56:48,584 --> 00:56:49,905
Okay.

1446
00:56:49,905 --> 00:56:51,359
Because that follows with

1447
00:56:51,359 --> 00:56:53,670
the suggestion that
the previous one.

1448
00:56:53,670 --> 00:56:54,749
Okay. So that's good.

1449
00:56:54,749 --> 00:56:55,499
Thank you.

1450
00:56:55,499 --> 00:57:00,464
Other questions,
John? Yes.

1451
00:57:00,464 --> 00:57:02,339
I'd like to follow up with

1452
00:57:02,339 --> 00:57:04,304
a similar
question on that.

1453
00:57:04,304 --> 00:57:06,599
Commissioner
troop, ask one of

1454
00:57:06,599 --> 00:57:08,819
the previous people

1455
00:57:08,819 --> 00:57:10,109
about whether
or not you're

1456
00:57:10,109 --> 00:57:12,509
familiar with the
marginal lands County

1457
00:57:12,509 --> 00:57:15,329
and and how that
system works and

1458
00:57:15,329 --> 00:57:18,390
the definition of
high-value farmland

1459
00:57:18,390 --> 00:57:19,499
and how you feel about

1460
00:57:19,499 --> 00:57:22,030
that in Washington County?

1461
00:57:22,460 --> 00:57:25,229
If you're not, I'm

1462
00:57:25,229 --> 00:57:26,684
somewhat familiar
with it and

1463
00:57:26,684 --> 00:57:28,289
I farm what I believe they

1464
00:57:28,289 --> 00:57:30,375
are considered to
be marginal lands.

1465
00:57:30,375 --> 00:57:35,490
And the marginal
land definition

1466
00:57:35,490 --> 00:57:38,070
is extremely subjective.

1467
00:57:38,070 --> 00:57:40,860
My marginal land that I'm

1468
00:57:40,860 --> 00:57:43,349
formula is
considered marginal,

1469
00:57:43,349 --> 00:57:46,859
is very productive
in comparison

1470
00:57:46,859 --> 00:57:48,584
to marginal lands in

1471
00:57:48,584 --> 00:57:50,954
other parts of the
state as an example,

1472
00:57:50,954 --> 00:57:53,139
for other parts
of the world.

1473
00:57:53,540 --> 00:57:57,719
So the other problem
is the marginal lands

1474
00:57:57,719 --> 00:57:59,205
that they have identified

1475
00:57:59,205 --> 00:58:01,125
or in the
surrounding areas,

1476
00:58:01,125 --> 00:58:02,970
I believe,
generally speaking,

1477
00:58:02,970 --> 00:58:05,009
populated centers.

1478
00:58:05,009 --> 00:58:07,890
And so if you loosen
the restrictions on

1479
00:58:07,890 --> 00:58:09,299
building on these marginal

1480
00:58:09,299 --> 00:58:10,470
lands that have
been identified,

1481
00:58:10,470 --> 00:58:12,164
you're going to increase

1482
00:58:12,164 --> 00:58:14,400
the traffic problem
significantly

1483
00:58:14,400 --> 00:58:16,800
between where the
marginal lands

1484
00:58:16,800 --> 00:58:18,990
were placed and the
population centers,

1485
00:58:18,990 --> 00:58:21,719
which is going to
significantly,

1486
00:58:21,719 --> 00:58:23,540
significantly increased

1487
00:58:23,540 --> 00:58:26,805
the pollution problems
and so forth.

1488
00:58:26,805 --> 00:58:28,949
Let me just follow
up and ask you,

1489
00:58:28,949 --> 00:58:30,750
Do you think
there's adequate

1490
00:58:30,750 --> 00:58:32,250
protection right

1491
00:58:32,250 --> 00:58:36,760
now for farmlands and
Washington County?

1492
00:58:40,630 --> 00:58:43,624
In my particular instance,

1493
00:58:43,624 --> 00:58:47,060
I believe it's
been adequate,

1494
00:58:47,060 --> 00:58:48,889
but I'm worried that
their loosening

1495
00:58:48,889 --> 00:58:51,574
the restrictions
which will

1496
00:58:51,574 --> 00:58:54,620
allow more dwellings to be

1497
00:58:54,620 --> 00:58:57,829
placed than there has
been in the past,

1498
00:58:57,829 --> 00:58:59,465
which I believe is
what we're addressing

1499
00:58:59,465 --> 00:59:02,314
with this farm
drilling situation.

1500
00:59:02,314 --> 00:59:05,104
Okay. Thank you. Chairman.

1501
00:59:05,104 --> 00:59:05,525
Yeah.

1502
00:59:05,525 --> 00:59:07,715
I'd like to follow up
if you don't mind.

1503
00:59:07,715 --> 00:59:09,710
I am concerned that there

1504
00:59:09,710 --> 00:59:11,299
are how many
farm dwellings,

1505
00:59:11,299 --> 00:59:13,369
new farm dwellings did
we really need and

1506
00:59:13,369 --> 00:59:15,109
Washington County to take

1507
00:59:15,109 --> 00:59:16,999
care of the genuine
farm population,

1508
00:59:16,999 --> 00:59:18,109
people like
yourself that are

1509
00:59:18,109 --> 00:59:19,555
gonna go out and
make a living.

1510
00:59:19,555 --> 00:59:21,630
Now, can you think
back through

1511
00:59:21,630 --> 00:59:23,340
the last 20 years as

1512
00:59:23,340 --> 00:59:25,230
to the number of
people that you know,

1513
00:59:25,230 --> 00:59:26,220
that actually went out on

1514
00:59:26,220 --> 00:59:27,404
a bare piece of land,

1515
00:59:27,404 --> 00:59:29,489
built a house,
started up farming.

1516
00:59:29,489 --> 00:59:31,935
And even before they,

1517
00:59:31,935 --> 00:59:35,550
perhaps zoning had
something to do with it in

1518
00:59:35,550 --> 00:59:38,160
the last 20 years
are needed is

1519
00:59:38,160 --> 00:59:39,569
our additional
farm buildings in

1520
00:59:39,569 --> 00:59:42,340
Washington County
for genuine farmers.

1521
00:59:42,620 --> 00:59:45,974
There's very few
actual form dwellings

1522
00:59:45,974 --> 00:59:48,269
that are probably
really needed.

1523
00:59:48,269 --> 00:59:49,709
I was very
interested to read

1524
00:59:49,709 --> 00:59:52,274
your fact sheets
that I got today.

1525
00:59:52,274 --> 00:59:53,070
And I believe they're

1526
00:59:53,070 --> 00:59:54,570
very adequate or actress.

1527
00:59:54,570 --> 00:59:55,860
But as you say,

1528
00:59:55,860 --> 00:59:58,109
74% of the people
don't farm.

1529
00:59:58,109 --> 01:00:00,600
And the restrictions
are the criteria

1530
01:00:00,600 --> 01:00:02,069
that have been placed as

1531
01:00:02,069 --> 01:00:03,660
far as grossing to

1532
01:00:03,660 --> 01:00:06,195
$10.20 thousand on that
track and so forth.

1533
01:00:06,195 --> 01:00:07,920
That's very widely abused.

1534
01:00:07,920 --> 01:00:09,780
I believe the people plant

1535
01:00:09,780 --> 01:00:11,264
high-value crops

1536
01:00:11,264 --> 01:00:13,844
with no intentions when
they plant though,

1537
01:00:13,844 --> 01:00:15,689
they ever harvest them.

1538
01:00:15,689 --> 01:00:17,624
As soon as they
get the dwelling,

1539
01:00:17,624 --> 01:00:20,024
it's not followed up that

1540
01:00:20,024 --> 01:00:25,065
they actually
get production.

1541
01:00:25,065 --> 01:00:27,194
The only other poem I see,

1542
01:00:27,194 --> 01:00:28,905
or one other problem,

1543
01:00:28,905 --> 01:00:31,380
it could be worked
out and compromised.

1544
01:00:31,380 --> 01:00:33,059
And that's why I do

1545
01:00:33,059 --> 01:00:35,310
this 100 acre track that

1546
01:00:35,310 --> 01:00:38,309
was has been divided
into 20 acre parcels.

1547
01:00:38,309 --> 01:00:41,100
Presently, as
each person gets

1548
01:00:41,100 --> 01:00:43,200
a dwelling permit on

1549
01:00:43,200 --> 01:00:44,339
the 20th of partially each

1550
01:00:44,339 --> 01:00:46,360
have to meet
their criteria.

1551
01:00:47,180 --> 01:00:50,130
I would be interested
in seeing something

1552
01:00:50,130 --> 01:00:53,265
that if those people
would get together,

1553
01:00:53,265 --> 01:00:55,019
you could still
let them build

1554
01:00:55,019 --> 01:00:56,220
the house if they have to,

1555
01:00:56,220 --> 01:00:59,889
because that's a
pre-established partial.

1556
01:01:00,140 --> 01:01:02,969
But if they would put

1557
01:01:02,969 --> 01:01:04,079
the houses on one side of

1558
01:01:04,079 --> 01:01:05,700
the parcel isn't example.

1559
01:01:05,700 --> 01:01:07,859
I could continue
to take care of

1560
01:01:07,859 --> 01:01:08,910
the land that is

1561
01:01:08,910 --> 01:01:11,414
left if it's in
a contiguous,

1562
01:01:11,414 --> 01:01:14,309
reasonably laid out unit.

1563
01:01:14,309 --> 01:01:16,050
But when you have one
house on one side of

1564
01:01:16,050 --> 01:01:18,194
the parcel and the other
one the other one.

1565
01:01:18,194 --> 01:01:19,229
You're going like this,

1566
01:01:19,229 --> 01:01:20,415
trying to take care of it.

1567
01:01:20,415 --> 01:01:22,439
And you can't pick out
a wind direction to

1568
01:01:22,439 --> 01:01:23,609
spray because
you've got one else

1569
01:01:23,609 --> 01:01:24,884
on one side, one
on the other.

1570
01:01:24,884 --> 01:01:28,530
If they're all on one
side, you could eat,

1571
01:01:28,530 --> 01:01:30,524
it'll be more easily

1572
01:01:30,524 --> 01:01:34,185
taken care of for
those people.

1573
01:01:34,185 --> 01:01:36,119
You made your
point very clear,

1574
01:01:36,119 --> 01:01:37,379
I think and
then we farmers

1575
01:01:37,379 --> 01:01:39,600
know what you're
talking about.

1576
01:01:39,600 --> 01:01:40,905
Thank you.

1577
01:01:40,905 --> 01:01:41,429
Can I hope to

1578
01:01:41,429 --> 01:01:43,679
send it might be helpful
with Commissioner,

1579
01:01:43,679 --> 01:01:44,819
if you explain something

1580
01:01:44,819 --> 01:01:45,989
about your farm,
how big it is,

1581
01:01:45,989 --> 01:01:47,069
what you do,
whether it has

1582
01:01:47,069 --> 01:01:49,300
constituent parcels.

1583
01:01:50,090 --> 01:01:53,670
We presently farm
850 acres in

1584
01:01:53,670 --> 01:01:56,685
Washington Counties
consisting of

1585
01:01:56,685 --> 01:02:02,730
approximately 40
approximately 40 landowners.

1586
01:02:02,730 --> 01:02:04,140
A number of them are

1587
01:02:04,140 --> 01:02:06,104
these five acre
tracks that have,

1588
01:02:06,104 --> 01:02:08,594
houses have been built on.

1589
01:02:08,594 --> 01:02:12,570
And we raise
cereal grains,

1590
01:02:12,570 --> 01:02:15,315
clover seeds,
strawberries,

1591
01:02:15,315 --> 01:02:18,240
beef, cattle,
dairy heifers.

1592
01:02:18,240 --> 01:02:27,554
And we're trying to,

1593
01:02:27,554 --> 01:02:29,535
I guess you could say

1594
01:02:29,535 --> 01:02:31,949
if you can't fight
them, join them.

1595
01:02:31,949 --> 01:02:34,604
That's why we went into
the IUPAC business.

1596
01:02:34,604 --> 01:02:35,940
And we're

1597
01:02:35,940 --> 01:02:37,559
marketing the
strawberries you pick,

1598
01:02:37,559 --> 01:02:39,000
which is working
very well for us

1599
01:02:39,000 --> 01:02:40,500
because these people are

1600
01:02:40,500 --> 01:02:44,979
there doing very well.

1601
01:02:47,900 --> 01:02:51,879
I haven't got a
question that you

1602
01:02:51,980 --> 01:02:55,514
made me think of as you
were talking there.

1603
01:02:55,514 --> 01:02:57,420
One of the pieces of

1604
01:02:57,420 --> 01:02:59,189
testimony we
sometimes hear is

1605
01:02:59,189 --> 01:03:00,690
that a farmer has

1606
01:03:00,690 --> 01:03:02,280
got to live on
quote unquote,

1607
01:03:02,280 --> 01:03:03,929
his or her land.

1608
01:03:03,929 --> 01:03:07,304
And your comment was
there your form,

1609
01:03:07,304 --> 01:03:09,585
40 parcels in
two counties.

1610
01:03:09,585 --> 01:03:12,699
Clearly, you don't
live on every parcel.

1611
01:03:12,770 --> 01:03:14,204
Is it?

1612
01:03:14,204 --> 01:03:15,479
What do you think of
this argument that

1613
01:03:15,479 --> 01:03:17,339
a farmer has to
live on their land?

1614
01:03:17,339 --> 01:03:18,239
It sounds like you must

1615
01:03:18,239 --> 01:03:19,740
be moving
equipment around,

1616
01:03:19,740 --> 01:03:21,930
Around considerable
distances yourself,

1617
01:03:21,930 --> 01:03:24,480
but you're still
successfully farming.

1618
01:03:24,480 --> 01:03:27,179
These partials are,

1619
01:03:27,179 --> 01:03:29,820
many of them are
contiguous one to another.

1620
01:03:29,820 --> 01:03:31,950
Exactly like the
example I have here.

1621
01:03:31,950 --> 01:03:34,425
I have examples
exactly like this,

1622
01:03:34,425 --> 01:03:37,319
where the tract was
originally 100 acres

1623
01:03:37,319 --> 01:03:38,759
and but it was split for

1624
01:03:38,759 --> 01:03:41,234
years into 20
acre parcels.

1625
01:03:41,234 --> 01:03:46,049
One by one, the houses
are coming and it's

1626
01:03:46,049 --> 01:03:49,109
getting more
and more costly

1627
01:03:49,109 --> 01:03:50,939
to farm these as

1628
01:03:50,939 --> 01:03:52,875
the partials continue
to get smaller,

1629
01:03:52,875 --> 01:03:53,999
especially when
they bought

1630
01:03:53,999 --> 01:03:55,019
a house right in the
middle of it and

1631
01:03:55,019 --> 01:03:57,359
a driveway down
to that house.

1632
01:03:57,359 --> 01:03:59,849
And you still want
to take care of it.

1633
01:03:59,849 --> 01:04:00,959
And it needs to be taken

1634
01:04:00,959 --> 01:04:02,024
care of the additional.

1635
01:04:02,024 --> 01:04:03,674
Land with a house
is not that.

1636
01:04:03,674 --> 01:04:05,249
But you've got a
U-shaped field

1637
01:04:05,249 --> 01:04:07,095
now instead of
a nice squirm.

1638
01:04:07,095 --> 01:04:09,120
And the two
counties that we

1639
01:04:09,120 --> 01:04:11,685
form an order contiguous
one to another.

1640
01:04:11,685 --> 01:04:14,624
So I guess I'm getting
at though is as

1641
01:04:14,624 --> 01:04:16,994
a farmer, clearly
though you can,

1642
01:04:16,994 --> 01:04:19,500
you can, you're able
to farm on a number of

1643
01:04:19,500 --> 01:04:20,910
parcels without living on

1644
01:04:20,910 --> 01:04:23,040
all the parcels
is correct.

1645
01:04:23,040 --> 01:04:24,420
You can move equipment.

1646
01:04:24,420 --> 01:04:25,260
And do you have to

1647
01:04:25,260 --> 01:04:26,310
move equipment
over the road?

1648
01:04:26,310 --> 01:04:28,020
Are you able to go through

1649
01:04:28,020 --> 01:04:30,689
fields and stay off
the road all the time?

1650
01:04:30,689 --> 01:04:33,239
No. Very 99% of

1651
01:04:33,239 --> 01:04:34,695
the time we're on
the road movie.

1652
01:04:34,695 --> 01:04:36,420
You're on the road
moving equipment

1653
01:04:36,420 --> 01:04:38,609
over their own
these parcels.

1654
01:04:38,609 --> 01:04:39,719
Okay.

1655
01:04:39,719 --> 01:04:41,310
What's the total distance

1656
01:04:41,310 --> 01:04:42,359
that was the
farthest distance

1657
01:04:42,359 --> 01:04:45,615
you travel? 13 mi.

1658
01:04:45,615 --> 01:04:46,665
13 mi.

1659
01:04:46,665 --> 01:04:47,805
Okay. Thank you.

1660
01:04:47,805 --> 01:04:50,609
That's not very far.
Eastern Oregon.

1661
01:04:50,609 --> 01:04:54,149
That's your haplo sad part

1662
01:04:54,149 --> 01:04:55,259
when the wind I can

1663
01:04:55,259 --> 01:04:57,839
appreciate the conflicts
that you have.

1664
01:04:57,839 --> 01:04:59,520
Let me ask you
this question.

1665
01:04:59,520 --> 01:05:00,809
Where are you
you say you're

1666
01:05:00,809 --> 01:05:03,270
involved with
40 individuals.

1667
01:05:03,270 --> 01:05:05,295
Did I hear you
correctly on

1668
01:05:05,295 --> 01:05:06,419
the parcels that you

1669
01:05:06,419 --> 01:05:08,700
are farming?
That's correct.

1670
01:05:08,700 --> 01:05:10,889
Do the majority of

1671
01:05:10,889 --> 01:05:13,320
these individuals live on

1672
01:05:13,320 --> 01:05:16,479
these partials
that you form?

1673
01:05:16,970 --> 01:05:18,690
I think you could say

1674
01:05:18,690 --> 01:05:20,025
the majority
at this point.

1675
01:05:20,025 --> 01:05:22,649
Do they do they
help you in

1676
01:05:22,649 --> 01:05:25,694
a way in controlling
vandalism,

1677
01:05:25,694 --> 01:05:28,350
in crop damage and
that type of thing,

1678
01:05:28,350 --> 01:05:30,789
or are they more
of a hindrance?

1679
01:05:32,450 --> 01:05:37,150
I have a very good
set of landlords.

1680
01:05:37,150 --> 01:05:38,550
So the you could say,

1681
01:05:38,550 --> 01:05:40,334
we don't have very many.

1682
01:05:40,334 --> 01:05:42,884
There's only one
or two of the 40.

1683
01:05:42,884 --> 01:05:44,100
And it's always
the danger you

1684
01:05:44,100 --> 01:05:45,269
have that complaint about

1685
01:05:45,269 --> 01:05:49,634
Dustin smoke or dust
and noise and so forth.

1686
01:05:49,634 --> 01:05:50,610
And those are not

1687
01:05:50,610 --> 01:05:51,960
the landlords that
own the land that

1688
01:05:51,960 --> 01:05:54,674
you take care of, their
adjacent landowners.

1689
01:05:54,674 --> 01:05:56,520
So in essence,

1690
01:05:56,520 --> 01:05:58,724
those people that
own the land,

1691
01:05:58,724 --> 01:06:01,380
even though you're
farming are

1692
01:06:01,380 --> 01:06:03,390
living on and they're

1693
01:06:03,390 --> 01:06:04,740
helping you take
care of it.

1694
01:06:04,740 --> 01:06:05,924
Isn't that correct?

1695
01:06:05,924 --> 01:06:06,750
Yes.

1696
01:06:06,750 --> 01:06:08,100
And they're fully
understanding

1697
01:06:08,100 --> 01:06:09,480
of the practices

1698
01:06:09,480 --> 01:06:11,025
that are necessary to

1699
01:06:11,025 --> 01:06:12,540
take care of
that property.

1700
01:06:12,540 --> 01:06:15,689
It's people that
live adjacent to

1701
01:06:15,689 --> 01:06:19,079
the partials to have

1702
01:06:19,079 --> 01:06:21,810
the greatest potential
of causing a problem?

1703
01:06:21,810 --> 01:06:24,419
Well, this goes back
to an age-old argument

1704
01:06:24,419 --> 01:06:25,469
that the chairman

1705
01:06:25,469 --> 01:06:27,884
and how they help
you take care of it

1706
01:06:27,884 --> 01:06:29,099
because John asked you

1707
01:06:29,099 --> 01:06:30,435
that they help you
take care of it.

1708
01:06:30,435 --> 01:06:32,100
How did they help you
take care of him?

1709
01:06:32,100 --> 01:06:33,299
Patrol if they help

1710
01:06:33,299 --> 01:06:35,340
him watch after the crops,

1711
01:06:35,340 --> 01:06:37,109
if he's got machinery
park there,

1712
01:06:37,109 --> 01:06:37,830
they'll look after

1713
01:06:37,830 --> 01:06:39,630
the machinery
for ourselves.

1714
01:06:39,630 --> 01:06:41,560
Those types.

1715
01:06:41,660 --> 01:06:44,235
It can work both ways.

1716
01:06:44,235 --> 01:06:45,660
I mean, you have the lab,

1717
01:06:45,660 --> 01:06:46,770
the potential liability of

1718
01:06:46,770 --> 01:06:47,790
the children

1719
01:06:47,790 --> 01:06:49,199
crawling on the
equipment getting hurt.

1720
01:06:49,199 --> 01:06:51,059
You also have
the advantage

1721
01:06:51,059 --> 01:06:52,469
of the people being
there and so on.

1722
01:06:52,469 --> 01:06:53,880
Some outside person
would come in and

1723
01:06:53,880 --> 01:06:55,439
vandalize the piece
of equipment.

1724
01:06:55,439 --> 01:07:00,039
So you never you never
win that argument.

1725
01:07:00,710 --> 01:07:02,279
Thank you.

1726
01:07:02,279 --> 01:07:03,734
They can 15-minute recess.

1727
01:07:03,734 --> 01:07:07,809
Well, I could write burns.

1728
01:07:21,980 --> 01:07:23,670
Good afternoon.

1729
01:07:23,670 --> 01:07:25,620
For the record, my
name is Roy Burns.

1730
01:07:25,620 --> 01:07:28,229
I'm planning director
for Lane County.

1731
01:07:28,229 --> 01:07:31,170
I hadn't intended
to testify

1732
01:07:31,170 --> 01:07:33,615
on the farm related
dead dwellings,

1733
01:07:33,615 --> 01:07:36,480
but I will on
February 14th,

1734
01:07:36,480 --> 01:07:40,260
I received a
memorandum from

1735
01:07:40,260 --> 01:07:45,974
Ms. Doyle or
letter rather,

1736
01:07:45,974 --> 01:07:47,699
nothing symbolic
about the date.

1737
01:07:47,699 --> 01:07:49,095
It wasn't a Valentine,

1738
01:07:49,095 --> 01:07:51,299
but it was in
response to a meeting

1739
01:07:51,299 --> 01:07:53,984
that we had held
which disgust?

1740
01:07:53,984 --> 01:07:57,254
What the statute said
and did not say.

1741
01:07:57,254 --> 01:08:00,840
Also Brent Curtis who
could not be here today

1742
01:08:00,840 --> 01:08:02,400
because he was
operating under

1743
01:08:02,400 --> 01:08:04,590
the same reading
of the law,

1744
01:08:04,590 --> 01:08:07,380
has requested that you

1745
01:08:07,380 --> 01:08:12,914
consider reading
the law once again,

1746
01:08:12,914 --> 01:08:15,270
because we did
not feel that

1747
01:08:15,270 --> 01:08:17,759
the high-value standards
are applicable to

1748
01:08:17,759 --> 01:08:20,085
Washington and two
lane as a result

1749
01:08:20,085 --> 01:08:23,429
of the legislation itself,

1750
01:08:23,429 --> 01:08:25,890
which we believe to be
clear and unambiguous.

1751
01:08:25,890 --> 01:08:28,619
I will not go into

1752
01:08:28,619 --> 01:08:30,330
this rather
lengthy memorandum

1753
01:08:30,330 --> 01:08:31,350
and copies of the law.

1754
01:08:31,350 --> 01:08:35,595
I did fax it to Dick.

1755
01:08:35,595 --> 01:08:37,499
It is addressed to

1756
01:08:37,499 --> 01:08:40,379
chair banner or excuse
me, cherry blossom.

1757
01:08:40,379 --> 01:08:42,720
And I will give you
copies of that.

1758
01:08:42,720 --> 01:08:45,630
I attempted to get

1759
01:08:45,630 --> 01:08:46,230
it to some of

1760
01:08:46,230 --> 01:08:47,970
the other members
prior to this meeting,

1761
01:08:47,970 --> 01:08:49,379
but rather short
turnaround

1762
01:08:49,379 --> 01:08:51,255
time is rather difficult.

1763
01:08:51,255 --> 01:08:53,339
Both Brandon, I believe

1764
01:08:53,339 --> 01:08:54,630
that this issue
will need to

1765
01:08:54,630 --> 01:08:57,809
be discussed in further
detail tomorrow,

1766
01:08:57,809 --> 01:08:59,760
but our position
is clearly

1767
01:08:59,760 --> 01:09:02,579
that the law does not
grant you the power

1768
01:09:02,579 --> 01:09:04,409
as a commission to

1769
01:09:04,409 --> 01:09:05,999
override what

1770
01:09:05,999 --> 01:09:08,265
the legislature
has established.

1771
01:09:08,265 --> 01:09:11,549
Marginal lands are unique.

1772
01:09:11,549 --> 01:09:13,649
And they're not
familiar to

1773
01:09:13,649 --> 01:09:15,795
most of the
commission members.

1774
01:09:15,795 --> 01:09:17,370
The way we have been

1775
01:09:17,370 --> 01:09:19,529
operating under
the law is we are

1776
01:09:19,529 --> 01:09:23,055
actually mandated to apply

1777
01:09:23,055 --> 01:09:26,894
specific standards,
numeric standards.

1778
01:09:26,894 --> 01:09:28,199
How does this
relate to the farm

1779
01:09:28,199 --> 01:09:29,895
dwelling criteria
are beginning.

1780
01:09:29,895 --> 01:09:31,019
I don't believe
that the farm

1781
01:09:31,019 --> 01:09:32,159
dwelling criteria can be

1782
01:09:32,159 --> 01:09:34,139
applied and still be

1783
01:09:34,139 --> 01:09:36,900
consistent with 215 to 13.

1784
01:09:36,900 --> 01:09:38,009
Understand that?

1785
01:09:38,009 --> 01:09:38,669
Okay.

1786
01:09:38,669 --> 01:09:40,409
But we're trying to
take testimony on

1787
01:09:40,409 --> 01:09:42,855
just the criteria,
good or bad.

1788
01:09:42,855 --> 01:09:43,740
And you're right.

1789
01:09:43,740 --> 01:09:45,464
We will have to deal
with that issue and is

1790
01:09:45,464 --> 01:09:46,710
largely that's
why I'm not going

1791
01:09:46,710 --> 01:09:48,164
to go into it and okay.

1792
01:09:48,164 --> 01:09:51,099
And we'll be calling
on your ruins.

1793
01:09:51,290 --> 01:09:54,359
Your opening a
public hearing okay.

1794
01:09:54,359 --> 01:09:55,934
To get it in the
record. Okay.

1795
01:09:55,934 --> 01:09:57,989
Well, it's well
in the record.

1796
01:09:57,989 --> 01:10:00,465
Very definitely.
Thank you, Ryan.

1797
01:10:00,465 --> 01:10:02,609
I want to ask him
any questions.

1798
01:10:02,609 --> 01:10:03,660
Do let me know.

1799
01:10:03,660 --> 01:10:05,685
We really shouldn't
be getting I mean,

1800
01:10:05,685 --> 01:10:07,110
unless you have
a question about

1801
01:10:07,110 --> 01:10:09,719
the fire with Welling
criteria itself,

1802
01:10:09,719 --> 01:10:10,439
That's really all we're

1803
01:10:10,439 --> 01:10:11,684
taking testimony on Nath,

1804
01:10:11,684 --> 01:10:12,840
the pros and cons
or whether it

1805
01:10:12,840 --> 01:10:14,610
applies to a particular
event will be here

1806
01:10:14,610 --> 01:10:16,080
tomorrow and

1807
01:10:16,080 --> 01:10:17,639
bring Curtis in
Washington County.

1808
01:10:17,639 --> 01:10:19,125
And so both of
this can come up

1809
01:10:19,125 --> 01:10:21,539
and trained
your questions,

1810
01:10:21,539 --> 01:10:23,234
I believe let me
just ask this.

1811
01:10:23,234 --> 01:10:23,879
I'm curious.

1812
01:10:23,879 --> 01:10:24,960
The case that's
currently in

1813
01:10:24,960 --> 01:10:27,150
the Court of Appeals
is that deal with

1814
01:10:27,150 --> 01:10:28,710
issues that would relate

1815
01:10:28,710 --> 01:10:31,875
to farm dwelling criteria.

1816
01:10:31,875 --> 01:10:33,839
What is the status

1817
01:10:33,839 --> 01:10:35,189
given the fact
that there is

1818
01:10:35,189 --> 01:10:36,900
a connection between
that court case

1819
01:10:36,900 --> 01:10:38,550
and firm dwelling
criteria.

1820
01:10:38,550 --> 01:10:40,890
What is the status
of that case?

1821
01:10:40,890 --> 01:10:42,600
Right now that the case

1822
01:10:42,600 --> 01:10:44,835
has been held in abeyance.

1823
01:10:44,835 --> 01:10:47,460
The commission's
action on the new goal

1824
01:10:47,460 --> 01:10:49,590
three rules of whether

1825
01:10:49,590 --> 01:10:51,540
Lane County will go
forward with the case,

1826
01:10:51,540 --> 01:10:52,814
I think depends in part

1827
01:10:52,814 --> 01:10:54,960
on the content
of those rules.

1828
01:10:54,960 --> 01:10:57,899
But right now it's
just in limbo.

1829
01:10:57,899 --> 01:10:59,235
It's safe to say that

1830
01:10:59,235 --> 01:11:00,390
nothing is happening
right now.

1831
01:11:00,390 --> 01:11:03,300
We've been mutually
agreed to wait

1832
01:11:03,300 --> 01:11:07,799
until the outcome of
implementation of 36 61.

1833
01:11:07,799 --> 01:11:10,109
How was that decision made

1834
01:11:10,109 --> 01:11:12,464
at the Court of
Appeals level?

1835
01:11:12,464 --> 01:11:15,270
Have to defer
to? I believe

1836
01:11:15,270 --> 01:11:17,610
it was in December,

1837
01:11:17,610 --> 01:11:22,949
sometime early December,
when we correct.

1838
01:11:22,949 --> 01:11:27,700
Mutually agreed.
Wait and see.

1839
01:11:27,800 --> 01:11:30,989
We assumed we might
not need to continue

1840
01:11:30,989 --> 01:11:34,180
that rather
extensive efforts.

1841
01:11:34,220 --> 01:11:36,540
Mr. Chairman? Yes, I

1842
01:11:36,540 --> 01:11:38,250
understand that
the issues that

1843
01:11:38,250 --> 01:11:42,960
are raised here rather
than today. Yeah.

1844
01:11:42,960 --> 01:11:44,700
He's raising the
issue of whether the

1845
01:11:44,700 --> 01:11:47,324
criteria we should
apply to him or not.

1846
01:11:47,324 --> 01:11:48,089
I understand.

1847
01:11:48,089 --> 01:11:49,260
And we're just
taking testimony

1848
01:11:49,260 --> 01:11:50,565
on the criteria itself.

1849
01:11:50,565 --> 01:11:54,009
And I said No. Thanks.

1850
01:11:55,910 --> 01:11:59,970
I'm Henry Jenkins
handling that.

1851
01:11:59,970 --> 01:12:01,140
How much time he's
going to take for you

1852
01:12:01,140 --> 01:12:03,840
to give us this full
exposition so I

1853
01:12:03,840 --> 01:12:06,734
can why don't I
divide it into

1854
01:12:06,734 --> 01:12:09,944
3 min on comments
from Uni County.

1855
01:12:09,944 --> 01:12:13,200
And then if I may,

1856
01:12:13,200 --> 01:12:14,970
about five-minutes
that will

1857
01:12:14,970 --> 01:12:16,140
work on going through

1858
01:12:16,140 --> 01:12:19,005
the presentation
on okay. Alright.

1859
01:12:19,005 --> 01:12:21,400
Tell us three,
again, encountered

1860
01:12:21,860 --> 01:12:24,630
before he starts
handling or

1861
01:12:24,630 --> 01:12:29,369
you also dying testifying

1862
01:12:29,369 --> 01:12:31,650
for Diane and I'm
not sure that

1863
01:12:31,650 --> 01:12:32,999
relates specifically to

1864
01:12:32,999 --> 01:12:34,350
the farm dwelling
criteria.

1865
01:12:34,350 --> 01:12:37,110
I think that is probably
more related to

1866
01:12:37,110 --> 01:12:41,939
tomorrow's discussions
under goal 3.4.

1867
01:12:41,939 --> 01:12:45,929
So reserve that k.

1868
01:12:45,929 --> 01:12:48,644
Let me begin by saying,
I'm handling Jenkins,

1869
01:12:48,644 --> 01:12:50,129
you're representing
unique county is

1870
01:12:50,129 --> 01:12:51,825
Union County
Planning Director.

1871
01:12:51,825 --> 01:12:54,420
We support clear and
objective standards

1872
01:12:54,420 --> 01:12:55,980
for determining whether

1873
01:12:55,980 --> 01:12:57,059
farmed dwellings can be

1874
01:12:57,059 --> 01:13:00,615
established in
the ESU zones.

1875
01:13:00,615 --> 01:13:04,380
We believe the goal is to

1876
01:13:04,380 --> 01:13:06,390
maintain commercial
agricultural lands

1877
01:13:06,390 --> 01:13:09,015
for continued to
agricultural production.

1878
01:13:09,015 --> 01:13:11,415
We also believe that

1879
01:13:11,415 --> 01:13:13,350
this issue should
be expanded

1880
01:13:13,350 --> 01:13:15,269
to recognize the
need to have

1881
01:13:15,269 --> 01:13:17,549
clear and objective
standards for second,

1882
01:13:17,549 --> 01:13:19,695
third, fourth, farm
related dwellings.

1883
01:13:19,695 --> 01:13:21,330
And this is an
issue that was not

1884
01:13:21,330 --> 01:13:21,869
addressed by

1885
01:13:21,869 --> 01:13:23,534
the technical
resource committee.

1886
01:13:23,534 --> 01:13:24,359
And we believe it's

1887
01:13:24,359 --> 01:13:25,769
an issue that the
commission should

1888
01:13:25,769 --> 01:13:29,819
address and try and reach
some resolution on.

1889
01:13:29,819 --> 01:13:33,629
So we are prepared

1890
01:13:33,629 --> 01:13:35,820
to talk about
some concepts.

1891
01:13:35,820 --> 01:13:36,749
However, we do not have

1892
01:13:36,749 --> 01:13:38,340
any clear proposals for

1893
01:13:38,340 --> 01:13:40,649
you today and they'd

1894
01:13:40,649 --> 01:13:43,450
be willing to talk about
concepts tomorrow.

1895
01:13:46,130 --> 01:13:48,764
We cannot support

1896
01:13:48,764 --> 01:13:51,540
the temporary
farmed dwellings

1897
01:13:51,540 --> 01:13:53,580
that have been raised

1898
01:13:53,580 --> 01:13:55,920
as recommendations
by the staff.

1899
01:13:55,920 --> 01:13:58,320
We believe that
temporary form dwellings

1900
01:13:58,320 --> 01:14:00,164
would be a nightmare
for enforcement.

1901
01:14:00,164 --> 01:14:01,920
And the primary reason

1902
01:14:01,920 --> 01:14:03,149
being that the
people that would be

1903
01:14:03,149 --> 01:14:05,490
located in these
temporary dwellings have

1904
01:14:05,490 --> 01:14:08,505
an intention of
being there forever.

1905
01:14:08,505 --> 01:14:09,569
They have no intention

1906
01:14:09,569 --> 01:14:11,249
of removing
their dwellings.

1907
01:14:11,249 --> 01:14:13,050
They are not equivalent to

1908
01:14:13,050 --> 01:14:14,610
temporary dwellings
that we currently

1909
01:14:14,610 --> 01:14:16,829
establish as
hardship dwellings

1910
01:14:16,829 --> 01:14:18,389
where we're dealing
with people

1911
01:14:18,389 --> 01:14:20,219
that may be moving from

1912
01:14:20,219 --> 01:14:21,269
a temporary dwelling to

1913
01:14:21,269 --> 01:14:22,650
a nursing home
or so forth.

1914
01:14:22,650 --> 01:14:24,555
And so we feel
that circumstances

1915
01:14:24,555 --> 01:14:25,860
are substantially
different

1916
01:14:25,860 --> 01:14:27,779
and would be much
more difficult to

1917
01:14:27,779 --> 01:14:30,940
remove a temporary dwell
in that situation.

1918
01:14:31,580 --> 01:14:34,289
We do not support

1919
01:14:34,289 --> 01:14:37,409
temporary dwellings as
a way than to prove up

1920
01:14:37,409 --> 01:14:39,809
on a parcel as
to whether it

1921
01:14:39,809 --> 01:14:43,770
meets either test
to or I'm sorry,

1922
01:14:43,770 --> 01:14:46,110
test1 or test two that are

1923
01:14:46,110 --> 01:14:48,539
identified in
the materials

1924
01:14:48,539 --> 01:14:50,430
that you have
presented to you.

1925
01:14:50,430 --> 01:14:53,909
And we also believe that
this is contrary to

1926
01:14:53,909 --> 01:14:57,374
the current
Employment Standard.

1927
01:14:57,374 --> 01:14:59,160
Is the track is the

1928
01:14:59,160 --> 01:15:01,649
tracked currently
employed or is it not?

1929
01:15:01,649 --> 01:15:03,779
Is the real question.

1930
01:15:03,779 --> 01:15:05,820
Once the dwelling
is established,

1931
01:15:05,820 --> 01:15:08,430
it's unlikely that it
will ever be removed.

1932
01:15:08,430 --> 01:15:11,670
I don't believe state
or local policy

1933
01:15:11,670 --> 01:15:14,730
should try to
manage farmers,

1934
01:15:14,730 --> 01:15:17,294
determine who is a farmer.

1935
01:15:17,294 --> 01:15:21,975
As recommended by the
departments proposal,

1936
01:15:21,975 --> 01:15:24,165
the average,

1937
01:15:24,165 --> 01:15:28,649
the acreage test under
taste test one was not

1938
01:15:28,649 --> 01:15:31,394
designated to require
a need to meet and

1939
01:15:31,394 --> 01:15:34,500
income threshold
of 80% to $40,000.

1940
01:15:34,500 --> 01:15:36,180
This test was
designated to be

1941
01:15:36,180 --> 01:15:38,010
simple and tracks large

1942
01:15:38,010 --> 01:15:38,940
enough to maintain

1943
01:15:38,940 --> 01:15:40,260
commercial
agricultural lands

1944
01:15:40,260 --> 01:15:42,374
for continued
agricultural use.

1945
01:15:42,374 --> 01:15:44,970
Tracks reviewed
under this tasks

1946
01:15:44,970 --> 01:15:46,965
should be currently
employed.

1947
01:15:46,965 --> 01:15:49,260
Whether 25 head
of cattle are

1948
01:15:49,260 --> 01:15:53,234
140 head of cattle
should not be the issue.

1949
01:15:53,234 --> 01:15:55,020
Wow, that was fast, right?

1950
01:15:55,020 --> 01:15:56,399
3 min, 3 min. Go quickly.

1951
01:15:56,399 --> 01:15:58,480
Can you summarize up

1952
01:16:01,490 --> 01:16:06,869
1.1 additional
point under 3.1?

1953
01:16:06,869 --> 01:16:08,610
And I go to the
overhead to show this.

1954
01:16:08,610 --> 01:16:10,319
I think this will
be also helpful as

1955
01:16:10,319 --> 01:16:12,600
a part of this
testimony or

1956
01:16:12,600 --> 01:16:20,310
two works for test
number three,

1957
01:16:20,310 --> 01:16:25,629
week four on
high-value land.

1958
01:16:35,660 --> 01:16:38,919
$40,000. Test.

1959
01:16:47,630 --> 01:16:50,499
Stick together.

1960
01:16:57,860 --> 01:17:01,439
Well, I was curious
as to thousand

1961
01:17:01,439 --> 01:17:05,834
dollars on either
the best three.

1962
01:17:05,834 --> 01:17:08,609
If we haven't needed
$40,000 tests,

1963
01:17:08,609 --> 01:17:12,690
can you try to
apply that some of

1964
01:17:12,690 --> 01:17:14,144
the typical auditors

1965
01:17:14,144 --> 01:17:15,689
agricultural
commodities in

1966
01:17:15,689 --> 01:17:19,005
Union County live
under livestock.

1967
01:17:19,005 --> 01:17:22,304
But I tried to do is
calculate how many cat

1968
01:17:22,304 --> 01:17:27,044
can refuse any gear.
Thousand dollars.

1969
01:17:27,044 --> 01:17:30,299
Recognizing that it's
probably going to take

1970
01:17:30,299 --> 01:17:34,365
35 cows to 100 calves.

1971
01:17:34,365 --> 01:17:37,150
It's also going
to take five volt

1972
01:17:37,730 --> 01:17:40,709
with the Japanese
carrying capacity

1973
01:17:40,709 --> 01:17:43,050
of 140 animals,

1974
01:17:43,050 --> 01:17:50,010
property and onto
the very best soils

1975
01:17:50,010 --> 01:17:51,719
and Eaton County
that are used for

1976
01:17:51,719 --> 01:17:54,119
range land versus
valley bottoms,

1977
01:17:54,119 --> 01:17:58,784
well, too bad to crop
or livestock purposes.

1978
01:17:58,784 --> 01:18:02,834
That equals our forests

1979
01:18:02,834 --> 01:18:04,319
rangelands halls where we

1980
01:18:04,319 --> 01:18:07,544
have five acres per AUM.

1981
01:18:07,544 --> 01:18:16,479
Hockey, 900,
substantially large,

1982
01:18:16,760 --> 01:18:20,514
established that
there were 320.

1983
01:18:20,514 --> 01:18:24,550
Number one, crop lands,

1984
01:18:25,880 --> 01:18:31,409
$20,000 based on
extension services,

1985
01:18:31,409 --> 01:18:37,350
average annual yield based

1986
01:18:37,350 --> 01:18:40,319
on average sales
for wheat.

1987
01:18:40,319 --> 01:18:43,890
Talking 181 acres case.

1988
01:18:43,890 --> 01:18:46,320
I'm looking back at
what's occurring in

1989
01:18:46,320 --> 01:18:49,049
test number one threshold.

1990
01:18:49,049 --> 01:18:52,664
So for an average $40,000,

1991
01:18:52,664 --> 01:18:53,820
tests for wheat
is going to

1992
01:18:53,820 --> 01:18:59,639
exceed or near 188.

1993
01:18:59,639 --> 01:19:04,679
Barley, 267 acres
to be 40,000.

1994
01:19:04,679 --> 01:19:07,199
To peppermint.

1995
01:19:07,199 --> 01:19:09,495
Acres for 40,000.

1996
01:19:09,495 --> 01:19:11,055
For bluegrass.

1997
01:19:11,055 --> 01:19:15,434
It's 57 acres for fescue,

1998
01:19:15,434 --> 01:19:18,045
grass seed,
that's 95 acres

1999
01:19:18,045 --> 01:19:21,960
in red fescue, this 143.

2000
01:19:21,960 --> 01:19:25,170
That gave me some
concepts or $40,000.

2001
01:19:25,170 --> 01:19:27,060
And then also,

2002
01:19:27,060 --> 01:19:29,280
what I wanted to do
is look at some of

2003
01:19:29,280 --> 01:19:33,659
the highs and lows and
we'll talk about some

2004
01:19:33,659 --> 01:19:36,149
of the most productive
wheat lands

2005
01:19:36,149 --> 01:19:39,040
and they probably
are irrigated.

2006
01:19:40,040 --> 01:19:47,499
Figure of $3.50, $40,000
representing 100.

2007
01:19:49,430 --> 01:19:52,859
Best-case scenario,
maybe looking

2008
01:19:52,859 --> 01:19:56,520
at the worst-case
scenario.

2009
01:19:56,520 --> 01:20:00,879
Looking at 300 533,

2010
01:20:01,940 --> 01:20:07,830
who gave testimony
to what was first

2011
01:20:07,830 --> 01:20:11,100
explained to me
that I wasn't

2012
01:20:11,100 --> 01:20:13,904
sure I was going to be
grasped this or not.

2013
01:20:13,904 --> 01:20:16,769
What I did is I
broke it down into

2014
01:20:16,769 --> 01:20:19,979
two some categories as

2015
01:20:19,979 --> 01:20:22,170
to what somebody
responsibilities

2016
01:20:22,170 --> 01:20:24,374
are going to be
under this test.

2017
01:20:24,374 --> 01:20:27,554
Might choose to
try and pursue

2018
01:20:27,554 --> 01:20:29,625
an income capability test

2019
01:20:29,625 --> 01:20:31,394
for a subject track.

2020
01:20:31,394 --> 01:20:34,319
Generally, what you
have to show is

2021
01:20:34,319 --> 01:20:35,609
subject tract is greater

2022
01:20:35,609 --> 01:20:37,505
than or equal capability,

2023
01:20:37,505 --> 01:20:40,845
the median and the
median income.

2024
01:20:40,845 --> 01:20:43,394
Other qualifying
tracks within

2025
01:20:43,394 --> 01:20:45,060
and show that

2026
01:20:45,060 --> 01:20:47,145
some big tract is
currently employed.

2027
01:20:47,145 --> 01:20:48,899
Just for everybody's
clarification,

2028
01:20:48,899 --> 01:20:50,309
this is actually
this is test

2029
01:20:50,309 --> 01:20:52,170
to say test
three up there.

2030
01:20:52,170 --> 01:20:54,375
Yeah, The last
that's all right.

2031
01:20:54,375 --> 01:20:56,040
Just make sure
everybody knows to

2032
01:20:56,040 --> 01:20:59,430
change the numbers
and say too,

2033
01:20:59,430 --> 01:21:05,250
but was okay under
the size test.

2034
01:21:05,250 --> 01:21:07,214
The first,

2035
01:21:07,214 --> 01:21:09,630
what we're attempting
to demonstrate is

2036
01:21:09,630 --> 01:21:12,224
that the subject track

2037
01:21:12,224 --> 01:21:15,464
as a capable
as a calculate

2038
01:21:15,464 --> 01:21:18,255
the gross income
capability

2039
01:21:18,255 --> 01:21:20,909
of the tracks
within a 1 mi and

2040
01:21:20,909 --> 01:21:22,139
determine whether or not

2041
01:21:22,139 --> 01:21:23,369
they're greater
than or equal

2042
01:21:23,369 --> 01:21:26,519
to the $10,000
threshold detector.

2043
01:21:26,519 --> 01:21:28,335
Now we're talking
about are

2044
01:21:28,335 --> 01:21:31,170
they aren't greater
than 10,000 than

2045
01:21:31,170 --> 01:21:33,750
the old set that

2046
01:21:33,750 --> 01:21:37,454
we'll use to
make population.

2047
01:21:37,454 --> 01:21:43,000
Calculate the median
size of those tracks.

2048
01:21:43,040 --> 01:21:45,330
Size then is what you're

2049
01:21:45,330 --> 01:21:46,950
going to compare against.

2050
01:21:46,950 --> 01:21:53,069
Subject tract
will determine

2051
01:21:53,069 --> 01:21:54,960
whether or not the
subject tract is greater

2052
01:21:54,960 --> 01:21:59,400
than income
capability tests.

2053
01:21:59,400 --> 01:22:01,424
We take the same tracks

2054
01:22:01,424 --> 01:22:04,034
that you've identified
a period one hey,

2055
01:22:04,034 --> 01:22:04,949
those that are
greater than

2056
01:22:04,949 --> 01:22:08,549
10,000 income test for

2057
01:22:08,549 --> 01:22:10,260
those and determine
whether or

2058
01:22:10,260 --> 01:22:12,390
not your subject tract

2059
01:22:12,390 --> 01:22:14,789
is greater than
the median.

2060
01:22:14,789 --> 01:22:18,090
Then you do the current
use assessment.

2061
01:22:18,090 --> 01:22:20,490
The current use
assessment is based on

2062
01:22:20,490 --> 01:22:23,400
whether or not what is
currently producing,

2063
01:22:23,400 --> 01:22:25,020
regardless of what
the commodity

2064
01:22:25,020 --> 01:22:27,435
is currently producing,

2065
01:22:27,435 --> 01:22:29,999
what this median income

2066
01:22:29,999 --> 01:22:39,579
test size is based on.

2067
01:22:39,650 --> 01:22:43,980
Grain problem. There's no

2068
01:22:43,980 --> 01:22:46,245
other while I'm
on the tract.

2069
01:22:46,245 --> 01:22:48,974
And in Eastern Oregon,

2070
01:22:48,974 --> 01:22:50,624
the tract is greater than

2071
01:22:50,624 --> 01:22:52,770
or equal to 20
acres in size.

2072
01:22:52,770 --> 01:22:54,300
And Western Oregon, it's

2073
01:22:54,300 --> 01:22:57,210
telling me that's the kind

2074
01:22:57,210 --> 01:22:59,310
of boils down simplifies
a little bit,

2075
01:22:59,310 --> 01:23:00,600
but that those are not

2076
01:23:00,600 --> 01:23:03,459
the steps that
you go through.

2077
01:23:04,340 --> 01:23:08,020
Please try and go
through the steps.

2078
01:23:11,750 --> 01:23:14,909
Identify the
subject tract.

2079
01:23:14,909 --> 01:23:18,225
You draw a 1 mi
perimeter around

2080
01:23:18,225 --> 01:23:20,730
the line that is one model

2081
01:23:20,730 --> 01:23:23,085
from the perimeter
attract or rounded.

2082
01:23:23,085 --> 01:23:25,305
You identify
contiguous ownership

2083
01:23:25,305 --> 01:23:27,000
within those tracks.

2084
01:23:27,000 --> 01:23:30,299
You print out all
the land files

2085
01:23:30,299 --> 01:23:31,620
for those tax
lots that are

2086
01:23:31,620 --> 01:23:33,734
involved in the test area.

2087
01:23:33,734 --> 01:23:35,880
For each of those tracks,

2088
01:23:35,880 --> 01:23:38,489
you do a weighted sales

2089
01:23:38,489 --> 01:23:40,499
per acre and you
multiply that times

2090
01:23:40,499 --> 01:23:43,949
the percent of the
average land rent value

2091
01:23:43,949 --> 01:23:47,429
for each classification
within the tract.

2092
01:23:47,429 --> 01:23:48,780
And then that should equal

2093
01:23:48,780 --> 01:23:51,689
the estimated
financial aid or

2094
01:23:51,689 --> 01:23:56,069
you take the estimated
potential gross sales,

2095
01:23:56,069 --> 01:23:58,634
you multiply that times

2096
01:23:58,634 --> 01:24:01,989
the number of acres tract.

2097
01:24:02,540 --> 01:24:04,709
Add up the results from

2098
01:24:04,709 --> 01:24:07,660
the classifications
in those tracks.

2099
01:24:09,170 --> 01:24:13,529
Calculate the median of

2100
01:24:13,529 --> 01:24:16,260
the tracks size of the
immediate tract size,

2101
01:24:16,260 --> 01:24:19,800
and the meat and
potentially pair

2102
01:24:19,800 --> 01:24:22,179
that to your
subject track.

2103
01:24:22,460 --> 01:24:26,529
It takes three to
4 h to do that.

2104
01:24:29,600 --> 01:24:31,919
Substantial on the facts

2105
01:24:31,919 --> 01:24:33,269
that you have to look at.

2106
01:24:33,269 --> 01:24:36,620
The subject tract is
tax law eight to 0.70,

2107
01:24:36,620 --> 01:24:38,880
25 acres in size,

2108
01:24:38,880 --> 01:24:41,790
1 mi perimeter rounded.

2109
01:24:41,790 --> 01:24:46,989
Thing we did then
was we looked at

2110
01:24:54,230 --> 01:24:59,369
Being tracked.
This data is

2111
01:24:59,369 --> 01:25:01,859
data that identifies where

2112
01:25:01,859 --> 01:25:03,795
the tract is
in the county.

2113
01:25:03,795 --> 01:25:06,794
Why the assessor
the assessor

2114
01:25:06,794 --> 01:25:10,290
tells us Valley area.

2115
01:25:10,290 --> 01:25:15,194
It tells us that
it is dry land,

2116
01:25:15,194 --> 01:25:17,189
but it is with
the water, right?

2117
01:25:17,189 --> 01:25:19,064
So we're going to
call it irrigated

2118
01:25:19,064 --> 01:25:21,329
the class before soils

2119
01:25:21,329 --> 01:25:23,024
according to be assessor.

2120
01:25:23,024 --> 01:25:29,325
And it has a red
value then of $3.38.

2121
01:25:29,325 --> 01:25:33,239
And that
represents 190% of

2122
01:25:33,239 --> 01:25:35,744
the total of the
random value.

2123
01:25:35,744 --> 01:25:38,250
We've calculated.

2124
01:25:38,250 --> 01:25:41,894
What the total
productivity

2125
01:25:41,894 --> 01:25:44,429
of that tract could
potentially be.

2126
01:25:44,429 --> 01:25:49,455
$9,800, less than
the $10,000,

2127
01:25:49,455 --> 01:25:52,260
no longer did not pull out

2128
01:25:52,260 --> 01:25:56,609
and other subject
tracks rounded,

2129
01:25:56,609 --> 01:25:58,379
found that it was

2130
01:25:58,379 --> 01:26:00,374
less than the
$10,000 threshold.

2131
01:26:00,374 --> 01:26:01,980
What was the size
of that track?

2132
01:26:01,980 --> 01:26:03,429
I missed that 72.

2133
01:26:03,429 --> 01:26:04,169
72.

2134
01:26:04,169 --> 01:26:05,529
Thank you.

2135
01:26:19,730 --> 01:26:22,650
Subject tract tax law at

2136
01:26:22,650 --> 01:26:26,939
34001005139 acres in size.

2137
01:26:26,939 --> 01:26:28,605
See, there are a number

2138
01:26:28,605 --> 01:26:31,305
of large parcels
and rounded.

2139
01:26:31,305 --> 01:26:33,390
We do contiguous
ownership.

2140
01:26:33,390 --> 01:26:36,629
Those tracks, the tax
laws to come up with,

2141
01:26:36,629 --> 01:26:39,180
the tracks list all of

2142
01:26:39,180 --> 01:26:43,485
the tracks that are

2143
01:26:43,485 --> 01:26:48,044
partially or entirely
included within a 1 mi.

2144
01:26:48,044 --> 01:26:50,979
Part of our calculation.

2145
01:27:03,160 --> 01:27:08,340
The subject
tract, identical.

2146
01:27:08,740 --> 01:27:14,910
Active subject tract
did grows over time.

2147
01:27:15,790 --> 01:27:21,560
Went on and ask
him any acts,

2148
01:27:21,560 --> 01:27:27,499
lots and tracks that
were adjacent to came up

2149
01:27:27,499 --> 01:27:34,580
with he didn't acreage
size of 320 acres,

2150
01:27:34,580 --> 01:27:43,474
came up income
thousand $700 as

2151
01:27:43,474 --> 01:27:52,545
gross sales tract at

2152
01:27:52,545 --> 01:27:55,514
or above that
median anytime.

2153
01:27:55,514 --> 01:27:57,909
That tracks

2154
01:27:58,970 --> 01:28:08,444
qualified acreage size.

2155
01:28:08,444 --> 01:28:17,079
So it did not fall
on five acres.

2156
01:28:22,790 --> 01:28:26,835
Longer period.

2157
01:28:26,835 --> 01:28:32,040
Okay. Questions of

2158
01:28:32,040 --> 01:28:39,120
handling handling
sexually,

2159
01:28:39,120 --> 01:28:42,629
I think that it is it

2160
01:28:42,629 --> 01:28:44,610
gets at what we're
trying to identify.

2161
01:28:44,610 --> 01:28:47,234
We are trying to identify

2162
01:28:47,234 --> 01:28:51,600
a median that is based

2163
01:28:51,600 --> 01:28:55,125
on commercial productivity
of the surrounding

2164
01:28:55,125 --> 01:28:59,384
or nearby commercial and
cultural activities.

2165
01:28:59,384 --> 01:29:01,469
And I think that this

2166
01:29:01,469 --> 01:29:04,155
does a very good
job at doing that,

2167
01:29:04,155 --> 01:29:07,110
does eliminate

2168
01:29:07,110 --> 01:29:11,834
some concerns about
unique commodities.

2169
01:29:11,834 --> 01:29:15,330
Lamas, he moves also

2170
01:29:15,330 --> 01:29:17,970
eliminates the concern
that someone would

2171
01:29:17,970 --> 01:29:21,299
come in and use minute
per second, e.g.

2172
01:29:21,299 --> 01:29:23,820
counting as a
basis in which to

2173
01:29:23,820 --> 01:29:27,434
approval for the blowing.

2174
01:29:27,434 --> 01:29:28,529
Because what
you're doing is

2175
01:29:28,529 --> 01:29:29,699
you're looking at

2176
01:29:29,699 --> 01:29:34,859
an average of what's
going on around tract.

2177
01:29:34,859 --> 01:29:37,019
So I think it goes a
long way to solving

2178
01:29:37,019 --> 01:29:38,969
some of the historic
problems that

2179
01:29:38,969 --> 01:29:40,710
we've had in trying
to determine whether

2180
01:29:40,710 --> 01:29:42,450
or not a foreign
blowing shouldn't

2181
01:29:42,450 --> 01:29:46,380
be approved is B.

2182
01:29:46,380 --> 01:29:48,030
It's still
complicated, but it's

2183
01:29:48,030 --> 01:29:51,149
complex to be able to
explain to the public,

2184
01:29:51,149 --> 01:29:55,019
integrated in some ways
to make that simpler.

2185
01:29:55,019 --> 01:29:57,704
I think in the materials
that you have.

2186
01:29:57,704 --> 01:29:59,639
And I didn't
think it would

2187
01:29:59,639 --> 01:30:01,139
be time-consuming,

2188
01:30:01,139 --> 01:30:04,920
particularly for the
smaller officer's shoes

2189
01:30:04,920 --> 01:30:06,059
can has had some example

2190
01:30:06,059 --> 01:30:07,769
within Georgia talk about

2191
01:30:07,769 --> 01:30:10,275
that nursing
experience with it and

2192
01:30:10,275 --> 01:30:12,810
that they've
gotten it down to

2193
01:30:12,810 --> 01:30:16,215
around an hour per test.

2194
01:30:16,215 --> 01:30:18,329
We estimated in

2195
01:30:18,329 --> 01:30:19,920
the neighborhood
of three to 4 h,

2196
01:30:19,920 --> 01:30:21,810
but we may not
have our systems

2197
01:30:21,810 --> 01:30:22,890
Computerized to

2198
01:30:22,890 --> 01:30:25,209
the extent that
issue scanning.

2199
01:30:29,780 --> 01:30:32,590
George raped.

2200
01:30:41,540 --> 01:30:45,164
Mr. Chairman, members
of the commission.

2201
01:30:45,164 --> 01:30:47,849
I'd hope to come up
here and just focus

2202
01:30:47,849 --> 01:30:51,510
on the three tests.

2203
01:30:51,510 --> 01:30:55,380
And I think we in concept
support those tests

2204
01:30:55,380 --> 01:30:56,550
and shoots county
and I think

2205
01:30:56,550 --> 01:30:59,235
Kevin Harrison
express that however,

2206
01:30:59,235 --> 01:31:00,689
I've got to talk

2207
01:31:00,689 --> 01:31:02,625
a little bit about the
temporary dwellings.

2208
01:31:02,625 --> 01:31:05,310
I guess. A couple
of things that

2209
01:31:05,310 --> 01:31:06,809
I know we're

2210
01:31:06,809 --> 01:31:08,760
Kevin Kevin was
trying to express,

2211
01:31:08,760 --> 01:31:10,124
maybe didn't come across.

2212
01:31:10,124 --> 01:31:11,940
Imagine being
at the counter

2213
01:31:11,940 --> 01:31:14,039
next Tuesday morning
when you've adopted

2214
01:31:14,039 --> 01:31:17,910
rules that had a
temporary dwelling tests

2215
01:31:17,910 --> 01:31:20,010
that no one ever
heard of before.

2216
01:31:20,010 --> 01:31:22,259
And the plants for
your new house can be

2217
01:31:22,259 --> 01:31:23,370
thrown away because you

2218
01:31:23,370 --> 01:31:25,769
can't even apply
for two years.

2219
01:31:25,769 --> 01:31:28,889
Or if it's not
in production.

2220
01:31:28,889 --> 01:31:31,290
I think there's
some real problems

2221
01:31:31,290 --> 01:31:33,270
in that respect in
terms of what is fair

2222
01:31:33,270 --> 01:31:34,380
to the public and

2223
01:31:34,380 --> 01:31:36,584
how much time people
had to review

2224
01:31:36,584 --> 01:31:39,015
these temporary
dwellings standards that

2225
01:31:39,015 --> 01:31:40,080
they haven't been on

2226
01:31:40,080 --> 01:31:41,894
the board until recently.

2227
01:31:41,894 --> 01:31:46,845
Secondly, I guess in
the sheets County,

2228
01:31:46,845 --> 01:31:48,569
I believe that
this will work

2229
01:31:48,569 --> 01:31:51,389
contrary to the
Land Use Program,

2230
01:31:51,389 --> 01:31:54,150
in that if you have
to wait two years,

2231
01:31:54,150 --> 01:31:56,655
you're probably
going to look at

2232
01:31:56,655 --> 01:31:58,890
putting dwelling

2233
01:31:58,890 --> 01:31:59,070
on

2234
01:31:59,070 --> 01:32:01,275
your non-productive
piece of your farmland.

2235
01:32:01,275 --> 01:32:02,925
You can do that under

2236
01:32:02,925 --> 01:32:05,009
the Smith fix and 36, 61.

2237
01:32:05,009 --> 01:32:06,240
So you're probably just
going to locate it

2238
01:32:06,240 --> 01:32:07,620
non-farm going into
sheets County,

2239
01:32:07,620 --> 01:32:10,920
Most of the parcels
have non-farm portions.

2240
01:32:10,920 --> 01:32:12,780
There'll be the argument

2241
01:32:12,780 --> 01:32:15,134
that general
generally unsuitable.

2242
01:32:15,134 --> 01:32:16,289
Well, it will
meet that if the

2243
01:32:16,289 --> 01:32:17,850
rock outcropping
and one alter

2244
01:32:17,850 --> 01:32:19,380
the overall stability
land use pattern in

2245
01:32:19,380 --> 01:32:20,939
the area where we can
debate that forever.

2246
01:32:20,939 --> 01:32:22,409
But we're going to have
a lot of applications

2247
01:32:22,409 --> 01:32:24,495
that way, one
way or another.

2248
01:32:24,495 --> 01:32:26,460
And there's no
real purpose

2249
01:32:26,460 --> 01:32:27,870
and served,
served by that.

2250
01:32:27,870 --> 01:32:29,954
And finally,
in my opinion,

2251
01:32:29,954 --> 01:32:32,265
it discourages
farm dwellings

2252
01:32:32,265 --> 01:32:33,365
rather than encouraging

2253
01:32:33,365 --> 01:32:35,560
them for that very reason.

2254
01:32:36,260 --> 01:32:40,049
I think there's
adequate protection

2255
01:32:40,049 --> 01:32:41,310
by the investment required

2256
01:32:41,310 --> 01:32:42,150
to get a farm dwelling.

2257
01:32:42,150 --> 01:32:43,290
You have to
establish that to

2258
01:32:43,290 --> 01:32:44,760
build your barn,
build your fences,

2259
01:32:44,760 --> 01:32:46,139
get your livestock, set up

2260
01:32:46,139 --> 01:32:48,645
your formulas before
you can get a dwelling.

2261
01:32:48,645 --> 01:32:51,509
Actually under
your standards.

2262
01:32:51,509 --> 01:32:53,099
Tier number one, and

2263
01:32:53,099 --> 01:32:54,255
to look at the lot sizes,

2264
01:32:54,255 --> 01:32:55,680
there's a lot
size requirement.

2265
01:32:55,680 --> 01:32:57,420
This can't be
done unless you

2266
01:32:57,420 --> 01:32:59,714
meet the median lot
size in the area.

2267
01:32:59,714 --> 01:33:03,060
The lot size provides
the protection or

2268
01:33:03,060 --> 01:33:04,230
the 160 acres or

2269
01:33:04,230 --> 01:33:05,519
320 acres as the case

2270
01:33:05,519 --> 01:33:07,630
may be under number one.

2271
01:33:08,060 --> 01:33:10,320
So there's a lot of

2272
01:33:10,320 --> 01:33:11,849
built-in protection
that seems to

2273
01:33:11,849 --> 01:33:17,070
be provided with
regard to the $10,000.

2274
01:33:17,070 --> 01:33:18,299
Let me give you an
example, Hector,

2275
01:33:18,299 --> 01:33:19,680
and ask them
some questions

2276
01:33:19,680 --> 01:33:21,074
regarding what that meant.

2277
01:33:21,074 --> 01:33:22,559
Shoots county it means

2278
01:33:22,559 --> 01:33:24,030
for, let's say alfalfa,

2279
01:33:24,030 --> 01:33:25,380
we take away we don't

2280
01:33:25,380 --> 01:33:26,700
even look at all the
parcels that are

2281
01:33:26,700 --> 01:33:29,700
28 irrigated acres
unless we take them off,

2282
01:33:29,700 --> 01:33:31,589
we only look at the
larger parcels,

2283
01:33:31,589 --> 01:33:33,689
parcels larger than
that in determining

2284
01:33:33,689 --> 01:33:35,789
the median parcel size and

2285
01:33:35,789 --> 01:33:37,169
therefore the
median productive

2286
01:33:37,169 --> 01:33:39,540
productive capability
in the area.

2287
01:33:39,540 --> 01:33:41,279
So what you're doing is

2288
01:33:41,279 --> 01:33:43,500
throwing all those
under $10,000 out,

2289
01:33:43,500 --> 01:33:45,239
then you're looking
at what's left in

2290
01:33:45,239 --> 01:33:47,699
determining what the
median in the area is.

2291
01:33:47,699 --> 01:33:48,899
So it's a lot
different than

2292
01:33:48,899 --> 01:33:51,189
setting that as
a threshold.

2293
01:33:53,720 --> 01:33:55,649
This test,

2294
01:33:55,649 --> 01:33:57,569
the three approaches
recommended by

2295
01:33:57,569 --> 01:33:59,189
the farm committee
are very much

2296
01:33:59,189 --> 01:34:00,810
like the shoots counties
recommendations.

2297
01:34:00,810 --> 01:34:03,179
Initially, there's
a fixed test,

2298
01:34:03,179 --> 01:34:06,224
a flexible local
type test,

2299
01:34:06,224 --> 01:34:08,924
and then finally an
income production test

2300
01:34:08,924 --> 01:34:11,369
that doesn't have a lot
sides figure in it.

2301
01:34:11,369 --> 01:34:13,769
And we think it
provides the best,

2302
01:34:13,769 --> 01:34:15,840
broadest basis for making

2303
01:34:15,840 --> 01:34:17,204
that type of a decision.

2304
01:34:17,204 --> 01:34:19,949
The farm building
decisions in counties all

2305
01:34:19,949 --> 01:34:22,769
over the state. Thanks.

2306
01:34:22,769 --> 01:34:24,164
Thank you. Questions?

2307
01:34:24,164 --> 01:34:25,244
George?

2308
01:34:25,244 --> 01:34:29,379
George, you mentioned
the two-year wait.

2309
01:34:29,810 --> 01:34:31,665
What do you mean by that?

2310
01:34:31,665 --> 01:34:32,879
Well, as you know, most

2311
01:34:32,879 --> 01:34:33,990
of the agriculture
we're talking

2312
01:34:33,990 --> 01:34:36,464
about new shoots
County is livestock.

2313
01:34:36,464 --> 01:34:38,789
And if the livestock
aren't being raised at

2314
01:34:38,789 --> 01:34:39,989
the level that generates

2315
01:34:39,989 --> 01:34:42,554
income to get the
farm dwelling today.

2316
01:34:42,554 --> 01:34:43,710
You're gonna have to wait

2317
01:34:43,710 --> 01:34:44,490
two years and produce

2318
01:34:44,490 --> 01:34:46,109
that income or longer

2319
01:34:46,109 --> 01:34:48,015
perhaps or yeah,
or whenever.

2320
01:34:48,015 --> 01:34:49,755
Now, the problem is,

2321
01:34:49,755 --> 01:34:51,389
if you have a temporary
dwelling there

2322
01:34:51,389 --> 01:34:53,040
and you fail,
what happens?

2323
01:34:53,040 --> 01:34:54,839
Do we tell the
mobile home off

2324
01:34:54,839 --> 01:34:57,030
because your farm crop
failed that year?

2325
01:34:57,030 --> 01:34:58,785
It's a tough.

2326
01:34:58,785 --> 01:35:01,200
It's the same approach
that was used in

2327
01:35:01,200 --> 01:35:04,394
the forest rule from 1990.

2328
01:35:04,394 --> 01:35:07,934
Trees are a little more
assured of growing.

2329
01:35:07,934 --> 01:35:09,810
Agricultural may not be.

2330
01:35:09,810 --> 01:35:11,144
I guess I still
don't get it.

2331
01:35:11,144 --> 01:35:12,900
All three tests
require have

2332
01:35:12,900 --> 01:35:14,850
the currently employed
standard in them.

2333
01:35:14,850 --> 01:35:17,624
No problem. So
and they all

2334
01:35:17,624 --> 01:35:18,884
refer to a median or

2335
01:35:18,884 --> 01:35:20,549
a number or
something, right?

2336
01:35:20,549 --> 01:35:21,930
So what's the problem
for this person?

2337
01:35:21,930 --> 01:35:23,009
I mean, if they don't meet

2338
01:35:23,009 --> 01:35:26,669
the median or the
minimum number today,

2339
01:35:26,669 --> 01:35:28,439
you're not going to
issue to them anyway.

2340
01:35:28,439 --> 01:35:29,759
So why are they
suddenly delayed

2341
01:35:29,759 --> 01:35:31,770
to two years?

2342
01:35:31,770 --> 01:35:34,889
If you have the
livestock, right?

2343
01:35:34,889 --> 01:35:37,575
And if you have the
fences and the barn,

2344
01:35:37,575 --> 01:35:39,135
and now you're coming in

2345
01:35:39,135 --> 01:35:40,710
to get your
building permit.

2346
01:35:40,710 --> 01:35:42,240
And I have to
say no, sorry,

2347
01:35:42,240 --> 01:35:44,100
You can't you got to
have a mobile home until

2348
01:35:44,100 --> 01:35:46,725
you produce for two years.

2349
01:35:46,725 --> 01:35:47,489
Right.

2350
01:35:47,489 --> 01:35:49,679
But that's what test 12.3.

2351
01:35:49,679 --> 01:35:50,850
Where would
they get in and

2352
01:35:50,850 --> 01:35:51,780
out of that anyway,

2353
01:35:51,780 --> 01:35:54,450
where how does the
temporary dwelling effect

2354
01:35:54,450 --> 01:35:56,190
that on test 12.3

2355
01:35:56,190 --> 01:35:57,525
wouldn't let him
in there anyway?

2356
01:35:57,525 --> 01:35:58,514
Certainly.

2357
01:35:58,514 --> 01:36:00,329
Okay. Which one?

2358
01:36:00,329 --> 01:36:03,059
Test let's say test one.

2359
01:36:03,059 --> 01:36:04,889
There are 160 acres

2360
01:36:04,889 --> 01:36:06,584
so heated beyond
their test tube.

2361
01:36:06,584 --> 01:36:08,339
They currently employed
though I don't work.

2362
01:36:08,339 --> 01:36:11,234
I didn't read.
Currently employed to

2363
01:36:11,234 --> 01:36:12,630
what we're talking

2364
01:36:12,630 --> 01:36:14,474
about currently
employed today.

2365
01:36:14,474 --> 01:36:16,724
They are there, the
animals are there

2366
01:36:16,724 --> 01:36:18,150
versus having

2367
01:36:18,150 --> 01:36:20,114
a production history
of two years.

2368
01:36:20,114 --> 01:36:21,340
Okay.

2369
01:36:21,340 --> 01:36:23,280
Okay. That's right.

2370
01:36:23,280 --> 01:36:24,330
Test one and the

2371
01:36:24,330 --> 01:36:25,410
currently employed
doesn't have

2372
01:36:25,410 --> 01:36:27,839
$1 figure attached
to it, right.

2373
01:36:27,839 --> 01:36:29,700
Whereas the other two
do. So you're you're

2374
01:36:29,700 --> 01:36:31,890
worrying about
163 20 situation?

2375
01:36:31,890 --> 01:36:34,124
No, I am worried
about number two.

2376
01:36:34,124 --> 01:36:37,919
And that is if you have
those farm operation,

2377
01:36:37,919 --> 01:36:38,220
let's say it's

2378
01:36:38,220 --> 01:36:40,079
a horse operation
to choose county.

2379
01:36:40,079 --> 01:36:41,519
You have a horse
operation,

2380
01:36:41,519 --> 01:36:42,720
you've purchased
the horses,

2381
01:36:42,720 --> 01:36:43,379
you have the barn,

2382
01:36:43,379 --> 01:36:45,389
you have the
whole farm setup

2383
01:36:45,389 --> 01:36:46,379
that will produce whatever

2384
01:36:46,379 --> 01:36:47,670
the median income is,

2385
01:36:47,670 --> 01:36:48,719
which may in some of

2386
01:36:48,719 --> 01:36:50,789
our sub zones
be 60, $70,000.

2387
01:36:50,789 --> 01:36:51,810
It's there.

2388
01:36:51,810 --> 01:36:53,399
You have to live in
a mobile home for

2389
01:36:53,399 --> 01:36:55,860
two years until you

2390
01:36:55,860 --> 01:36:57,630
have the history
of production.

2391
01:36:57,630 --> 01:36:59,505
Okay. Get the
permanent dwelling.

2392
01:36:59,505 --> 01:37:01,659
I see what you're
getting at.

2393
01:37:06,500 --> 01:37:08,829
Okay.

2394
01:37:13,910 --> 01:37:16,809
George Pugh.

2395
01:37:22,520 --> 01:37:24,150
Good afternoon.

2396
01:37:24,150 --> 01:37:25,710
My name is George Pugh on

2397
01:37:25,710 --> 01:37:27,614
the grass seed
farmer from shed,

2398
01:37:27,614 --> 01:37:29,535
which is in Lin County.

2399
01:37:29,535 --> 01:37:31,469
The longer I've set here,

2400
01:37:31,469 --> 01:37:32,820
the more confused
I become.

2401
01:37:32,820 --> 01:37:34,544
So I'll just tell you
what I would like

2402
01:37:34,544 --> 01:37:35,970
and then I'm sure

2403
01:37:35,970 --> 01:37:38,139
you'll reach out
and do that.

2404
01:37:38,150 --> 01:37:41,985
I'm a fifth
generation farmer.

2405
01:37:41,985 --> 01:37:43,920
He hadn't shared and
third-generation

2406
01:37:43,920 --> 01:37:46,170
on the grass seed form.

2407
01:37:46,170 --> 01:37:48,720
I am looking for is

2408
01:37:48,720 --> 01:37:51,359
a system where
sustainable farms,

2409
01:37:51,359 --> 01:37:55,320
that is economically
viable farms can

2410
01:37:55,320 --> 01:37:56,744
be allowed to have

2411
01:37:56,744 --> 01:37:58,335
structures on them for

2412
01:37:58,335 --> 01:38:00,014
residents of the farmer.

2413
01:38:00,014 --> 01:38:03,164
But that not every lot,

2414
01:38:03,164 --> 01:38:05,879
Never Not every
area around

2415
01:38:05,879 --> 01:38:09,374
there can be broken up
into a smaller area,

2416
01:38:09,374 --> 01:38:13,319
a non-economic, a
viable piece of ground,

2417
01:38:13,319 --> 01:38:15,599
and have houses
put on them.

2418
01:38:15,599 --> 01:38:17,129
Currently, the practice in

2419
01:38:17,129 --> 01:38:18,960
our county extension agent

2420
01:38:18,960 --> 01:38:19,769
tells me it takes us

2421
01:38:19,769 --> 01:38:22,815
about 750 acres of

2422
01:38:22,815 --> 01:38:24,809
graph the ground to

2423
01:38:24,809 --> 01:38:27,759
be an economically
viable unit.

2424
01:38:29,000 --> 01:38:33,675
Our lowest paying crop

2425
01:38:33,675 --> 01:38:39,509
makes growth is about
$400 to $450 an acre.

2426
01:38:39,509 --> 01:38:42,690
So you can see we're
looking at something,

2427
01:38:42,690 --> 01:38:46,149
the area of 300,000,

2428
01:38:46,149 --> 01:38:50,490
$215,000 grows for a unit

2429
01:38:50,490 --> 01:38:52,515
to be an economically
viable unit,

2430
01:38:52,515 --> 01:38:58,770
has a grasp on the
limitations that are

2431
01:38:58,770 --> 01:39:00,850
expressed at $10,000 grows

2432
01:39:00,850 --> 01:39:04,860
speak 160 acre minimum.

2433
01:39:04,860 --> 01:39:06,809
And figures
like that don't

2434
01:39:06,809 --> 01:39:09,195
apply to an economic
unit in my hair.

2435
01:39:09,195 --> 01:39:11,760
Now I understand
I can only talk

2436
01:39:11,760 --> 01:39:12,810
about my area because

2437
01:39:12,810 --> 01:39:15,479
that's only
thing I know of.

2438
01:39:15,479 --> 01:39:17,744
I guess.

2439
01:39:17,744 --> 01:39:23,589
Number one eye as well,

2440
01:39:23,589 --> 01:39:25,319
it's it looks to me
like the acreage

2441
01:39:25,319 --> 01:39:27,810
is in test number
one or rather small.

2442
01:39:27,810 --> 01:39:30,329
Number two, I
completely confused

2443
01:39:30,329 --> 01:39:31,530
about and it wouldn't

2444
01:39:31,530 --> 01:39:33,044
even want to address that.

2445
01:39:33,044 --> 01:39:34,844
Number three has
some relevance.

2446
01:39:34,844 --> 01:39:38,490
Relevance. But $40,000
growth would not

2447
01:39:38,490 --> 01:39:43,259
begin to sustain farming
unit in our area.

2448
01:39:43,259 --> 01:39:46,140
Later on, I think you have

2449
01:39:46,140 --> 01:39:49,185
a reference to
Mr. Carnegie's

2450
01:39:49,185 --> 01:39:58,305
proposal for a 1040
based income directly,

2451
01:39:58,305 --> 01:40:00,480
that would look
to me to be

2452
01:40:00,480 --> 01:40:02,519
a fair wage and
determine what is

2453
01:40:02,519 --> 01:40:04,679
an economical
a viable farm

2454
01:40:04,679 --> 01:40:07,229
and when a unit
might be suitable.

2455
01:40:07,229 --> 01:40:09,585
But he placed
on a acreage.

2456
01:40:09,585 --> 01:40:12,209
Currently in our area.

2457
01:40:12,209 --> 01:40:14,820
There are very I
cannot think of

2458
01:40:14,820 --> 01:40:18,885
one brand new farm hole

2459
01:40:18,885 --> 01:40:20,519
there has been
built that did

2460
01:40:20,519 --> 01:40:22,845
not replace an
existing guava.

2461
01:40:22,845 --> 01:40:25,409
When my great, great
granddaddy got there,

2462
01:40:25,409 --> 01:40:27,419
I realized he got
to build something.

2463
01:40:27,419 --> 01:40:30,285
When my father decided
to replace his home,

2464
01:40:30,285 --> 01:40:32,190
he tore down the
old woman in-built.

2465
01:40:32,190 --> 01:40:33,749
I see.

2466
01:40:33,749 --> 01:40:35,580
I would hope that
we would put

2467
01:40:35,580 --> 01:40:38,880
the most restrictive
qualifications

2468
01:40:38,880 --> 01:40:41,010
on addition of new homes

2469
01:40:41,010 --> 01:40:43,680
and in purely
agricultural areas.

2470
01:40:43,680 --> 01:40:44,804
Thank you.

2471
01:40:44,804 --> 01:40:46,965
Thank you. A question.

2472
01:40:46,965 --> 01:40:50,264
You use the term
viable, you would need.

2473
01:40:50,264 --> 01:40:52,020
I think he said it
was either 315 or

2474
01:40:52,020 --> 01:40:53,909
$350,000 to be viable.

2475
01:40:53,909 --> 01:40:56,084
And what do you
mean by viable?

2476
01:40:56,084 --> 01:40:59,490
That would be a
unit to produce

2477
01:40:59,490 --> 01:41:02,160
enough income to maintain

2478
01:41:02,160 --> 01:41:03,569
the replacement
of equipment,

2479
01:41:03,569 --> 01:41:04,800
to pay the taxes,

2480
01:41:04,800 --> 01:41:09,524
to maintain the
credit worthiness,

2481
01:41:09,524 --> 01:41:11,835
to continue in
an operation.

2482
01:41:11,835 --> 01:41:13,424
Okay. Thank you.

2483
01:41:13,424 --> 01:41:16,109
Anything left over
to feed the family?

2484
01:41:16,109 --> 01:41:18,560
Fortunately, most of us in

2485
01:41:18,560 --> 01:41:21,970
farming community,
ruth, Rachel gardens.

2486
01:41:23,000 --> 01:41:25,919
What county is shedding?

2487
01:41:25,919 --> 01:41:27,539
Lynn when Kim.

2488
01:41:27,539 --> 01:41:29,109
Thank you.

2489
01:41:29,330 --> 01:41:30,600
Thank you.

2490
01:41:30,600 --> 01:41:32,280
Questions. Thanks.

2491
01:41:32,280 --> 01:41:34,749
Jeane Nath.

2492
01:41:49,930 --> 01:41:52,489
I live in the

2493
01:41:52,489 --> 01:41:54,199
urban growth boundary
of Corvallis

2494
01:41:54,199 --> 01:41:58,430
on a ten acre
piece of woodland.

2495
01:41:58,430 --> 01:42:00,200
I've been on the

2496
01:42:00,200 --> 01:42:01,729
Benton County Planning
Commission and

2497
01:42:01,729 --> 01:42:02,780
also served on

2498
01:42:02,780 --> 01:42:04,549
the Citizen Advisory
Committee to

2499
01:42:04,549 --> 01:42:08,960
the CDC and on

2500
01:42:08,960 --> 01:42:11,239
the recommendations
for foreign dwellings.

2501
01:42:11,239 --> 01:42:13,850
I would like to say
that Benton County

2502
01:42:13,850 --> 01:42:15,470
has some of the
highest value

2503
01:42:15,470 --> 01:42:17,254
farm land in the state.

2504
01:42:17,254 --> 01:42:19,340
According to the USGS maps

2505
01:42:19,340 --> 01:42:21,339
on soil capability.

2506
01:42:21,339 --> 01:42:23,970
And we are experiencing
the arrival of

2507
01:42:23,970 --> 01:42:25,590
many people drawn to

2508
01:42:25,590 --> 01:42:27,930
our area because of
the quality of life.

2509
01:42:27,930 --> 01:42:29,010
And many of them with

2510
01:42:29,010 --> 01:42:31,245
enough money to purchase

2511
01:42:31,245 --> 01:42:32,430
a large tract of

2512
01:42:32,430 --> 01:42:34,109
farm land on which

2513
01:42:34,109 --> 01:42:36,270
to put a non-farm
dwelling.

2514
01:42:36,270 --> 01:42:39,359
The ability to control
who lives in a house

2515
01:42:39,359 --> 01:42:42,359
on farmland is
understandably difficult.

2516
01:42:42,359 --> 01:42:46,169
And that's pointed
out in the test one.

2517
01:42:46,169 --> 01:42:50,264
In the TRC. However, I

2518
01:42:50,264 --> 01:42:51,899
disagree with
their observation

2519
01:42:51,899 --> 01:42:53,669
that farm size
alone should be

2520
01:42:53,669 --> 01:42:55,259
the total
justification for

2521
01:42:55,259 --> 01:42:57,915
a dwelling on
commercial farmland.

2522
01:42:57,915 --> 01:42:59,729
I would like to have

2523
01:42:59,729 --> 01:43:02,400
a production
capability test with

2524
01:43:02,400 --> 01:43:03,990
a temporary dwelling for

2525
01:43:03,990 --> 01:43:06,899
five years on
commercial farmland.

2526
01:43:06,899 --> 01:43:10,860
And actually,
they mentioned in

2527
01:43:10,860 --> 01:43:13,439
their comments
that they did

2528
01:43:13,439 --> 01:43:16,410
consider a
temporary dwelling.

2529
01:43:16,410 --> 01:43:19,559
They did they
didn't adopt that.

2530
01:43:19,559 --> 01:43:21,930
But the notes
say that they

2531
01:43:21,930 --> 01:43:23,130
did they did think

2532
01:43:23,130 --> 01:43:25,290
about that in
the beginning.

2533
01:43:25,290 --> 01:43:28,515
Also, I understand
that when you

2534
01:43:28,515 --> 01:43:34,229
build a house on
farmland these days,

2535
01:43:34,229 --> 01:43:38,700
that the whole farm
dwelling is not

2536
01:43:38,700 --> 01:43:43,320
taxed at anything
other than farm taxes,

2537
01:43:43,320 --> 01:43:47,384
whereas anybody
else on rural land,

2538
01:43:47,384 --> 01:43:48,990
it has to pay

2539
01:43:48,990 --> 01:43:51,749
Rural Residential tax on

2540
01:43:51,749 --> 01:43:54,374
the part that their
house is located on.

2541
01:43:54,374 --> 01:43:56,579
And I don't think
the county should be

2542
01:43:56,579 --> 01:43:59,294
subsidizing dwellings
in farmland.

2543
01:43:59,294 --> 01:44:01,859
On test two, Can
I interrupt them?

2544
01:44:01,859 --> 01:44:03,480
That will mess
up the time.

2545
01:44:03,480 --> 01:44:04,170
Maybe I should've asked

2546
01:44:04,170 --> 01:44:05,264
later once you hold it.

2547
01:44:05,264 --> 01:44:08,474
Okay. Now, test two,

2548
01:44:08,474 --> 01:44:09,750
which would
permit a dwelling

2549
01:44:09,750 --> 01:44:10,950
on land which
can grow those

2550
01:44:10,950 --> 01:44:12,180
10,000 or better per

2551
01:44:12,180 --> 01:44:14,429
year could easily be met.

2552
01:44:14,429 --> 01:44:16,200
And I agree with
the comments of Mr.

2553
01:44:16,200 --> 01:44:18,749
McCarthy in the
report regarding

2554
01:44:18,749 --> 01:44:20,640
the fact that it would
promote planting

2555
01:44:20,640 --> 01:44:22,679
high-value crops
in order to

2556
01:44:22,679 --> 01:44:24,569
justify a dwelling
in someone

2557
01:44:24,569 --> 01:44:27,269
else commented
on that also.

2558
01:44:27,269 --> 01:44:29,310
The formula for
determining

2559
01:44:29,310 --> 01:44:31,800
commercial scale is
indeed complicated,

2560
01:44:31,800 --> 01:44:36,494
as Mr. Henley
just showed us.

2561
01:44:36,494 --> 01:44:39,300
But raising the production
capability income

2562
01:44:39,300 --> 01:44:40,950
grows to a higher level,

2563
01:44:40,950 --> 01:44:42,599
makes more sense to me

2564
01:44:42,599 --> 01:44:44,129
and would certainly
be easier for

2565
01:44:44,129 --> 01:44:47,640
the counties to
administer tests three,

2566
01:44:47,640 --> 01:44:50,295
on girls, income on
high-value farmland

2567
01:44:50,295 --> 01:44:54,749
is too low under most
existing conditions.

2568
01:44:54,749 --> 01:44:57,420
The income test
could more easily be

2569
01:44:57,420 --> 01:44:59,009
administered by
the proposal

2570
01:44:59,009 --> 01:45:00,989
put forward by
Mr. Carnegie,

2571
01:45:00,989 --> 01:45:02,490
where a bank
would simply be

2572
01:45:02,490 --> 01:45:04,169
able to produce
figure showing

2573
01:45:04,169 --> 01:45:05,280
that the operation has

2574
01:45:05,280 --> 01:45:06,690
existed for five years or

2575
01:45:06,690 --> 01:45:08,220
more and is currently

2576
01:45:08,220 --> 01:45:10,200
generating enough
net income,

2577
01:45:10,200 --> 01:45:12,104
exclusive of rental income

2578
01:45:12,104 --> 01:45:14,475
to pay the mortgage
on a residence.

2579
01:45:14,475 --> 01:45:17,100
And I think the
whole point of

2580
01:45:17,100 --> 01:45:19,650
chest should be to
protect resource land,

2581
01:45:19,650 --> 01:45:22,739
keep non-farm dwellings
off of those lands.

2582
01:45:22,739 --> 01:45:24,269
And the goal is to

2583
01:45:24,269 --> 01:45:26,250
prevent them from
being built.

2584
01:45:26,250 --> 01:45:29,040
And with all the
creative ideas

2585
01:45:29,040 --> 01:45:30,809
that you can provide.

2586
01:45:30,809 --> 01:45:34,930
Did you have something
to ask me a question?

2587
01:45:34,930 --> 01:45:36,905
Understand you to say that

2588
01:45:36,905 --> 01:45:38,974
the home improvements were

2589
01:45:38,974 --> 01:45:39,919
your understanding was

2590
01:45:39,919 --> 01:45:41,030
the home improvements were

2591
01:45:41,030 --> 01:45:43,939
also taxed at firm value?

2592
01:45:43,939 --> 01:45:45,125
Yes.

2593
01:45:45,125 --> 01:45:46,700
The land is the land

2594
01:45:46,700 --> 01:45:48,319
I'm talking
about home side.

2595
01:45:48,319 --> 01:45:49,654
You're talking about
the improvements.

2596
01:45:49,654 --> 01:45:51,905
I'm talking about
the home site.

2597
01:45:51,905 --> 01:45:54,815
If you're building a home

2598
01:45:54,815 --> 01:45:59,489
alone on 160 acres of
land, for instance.

2599
01:45:59,560 --> 01:46:02,404
Now my understanding
is that that

2600
01:46:02,404 --> 01:46:07,610
is the current situation.

2601
01:46:07,610 --> 01:46:10,805
But actually people who
have a farm home on

2602
01:46:10,805 --> 01:46:15,975
a farm are paying just
the taxes that would.

2603
01:46:15,975 --> 01:46:18,205
Obtain on farmland.

2604
01:46:18,205 --> 01:46:19,300
Is that correct, Hector,

2605
01:46:19,300 --> 01:46:21,129
or do you pay
real residential

2606
01:46:21,129 --> 01:46:23,559
Not exactly the
legislature in your house.

2607
01:46:23,559 --> 01:46:25,269
The legislature mess
this thing all up

2608
01:46:25,269 --> 01:46:27,009
and put a specific
value on that.

2609
01:46:27,009 --> 01:46:29,110
So it is more than
one farmland,

2610
01:46:29,110 --> 01:46:30,579
but it represents the

2611
01:46:30,579 --> 01:46:32,109
septic tank and
the well on

2612
01:46:32,109 --> 01:46:33,759
these kinds of things
which are actually

2613
01:46:33,759 --> 01:46:36,025
improvements that are
out there on the site.

2614
01:46:36,025 --> 01:46:37,779
So but but
you're basically

2615
01:46:37,779 --> 01:46:39,714
right and that
the rest of it,

2616
01:46:39,714 --> 01:46:40,899
it's limited it's more

2617
01:46:40,899 --> 01:46:42,340
limited taxation
then you would

2618
01:46:42,340 --> 01:46:45,249
have on on Rural
Residential record,

2619
01:46:45,249 --> 01:46:46,494
a residential house. Okay.

2620
01:46:46,494 --> 01:46:47,559
Thanks.

2621
01:46:47,559 --> 01:46:48,715
Question.

2622
01:46:48,715 --> 01:46:49,659
Thank you.

2623
01:46:49,659 --> 01:46:51,890
Kelly Ross.

2624
01:46:59,910 --> 01:47:01,149
Mr.

2625
01:47:01,149 --> 01:47:03,070
Chairman, Commissioner
Kelly Ross

2626
01:47:03,070 --> 01:47:03,519
representing

2627
01:47:03,519 --> 01:47:05,544
the Oregon Association
of Realtors.

2628
01:47:05,544 --> 01:47:07,164
I'm not gonna go into

2629
01:47:07,164 --> 01:47:10,689
great deal of detail
on the proposal.

2630
01:47:10,689 --> 01:47:12,790
I think our position
with generally

2631
01:47:12,790 --> 01:47:13,960
reflect what you're
going to hear

2632
01:47:13,960 --> 01:47:15,460
from the county
planning directors.

2633
01:47:15,460 --> 01:47:17,110
But I would like
to take my time

2634
01:47:17,110 --> 01:47:19,540
to home in on
what I see is

2635
01:47:19,540 --> 01:47:21,339
a real problem with
the proposal on

2636
01:47:21,339 --> 01:47:25,344
the temporary dwelling
section of the rule.

2637
01:47:25,344 --> 01:47:27,189
There is a requirement in

2638
01:47:27,189 --> 01:47:28,630
that rule that
anyone wanting

2639
01:47:28,630 --> 01:47:29,829
a temporary
dwelling has to

2640
01:47:29,829 --> 01:47:31,810
post a performance bond.

2641
01:47:31,810 --> 01:47:34,689
And I think in
thinking back,

2642
01:47:34,689 --> 01:47:36,684
I think this is
the same language

2643
01:47:36,684 --> 01:47:37,779
that was proposed in

2644
01:47:37,779 --> 01:47:40,030
1989 when the goal

2645
01:47:40,030 --> 01:47:42,595
for rule was
being amended.

2646
01:47:42,595 --> 01:47:44,139
And at that time
the language

2647
01:47:44,139 --> 01:47:46,390
was rejected
because it was

2648
01:47:46,390 --> 01:47:47,799
discovered that those kind

2649
01:47:47,799 --> 01:47:49,390
of performance bonds are

2650
01:47:49,390 --> 01:47:50,589
just not available

2651
01:47:50,589 --> 01:47:52,764
from commercial
surety companies.

2652
01:47:52,764 --> 01:47:54,820
And if you'll look at
your goal for rule,

2653
01:47:54,820 --> 01:47:57,040
the way it turned out,
there was a menu,

2654
01:47:57,040 --> 01:47:58,600
a variety of options

2655
01:47:58,600 --> 01:48:01,825
allowed besides
performance bonds,

2656
01:48:01,825 --> 01:48:04,570
cash deposits, a
number of things.

2657
01:48:04,570 --> 01:48:06,369
So if the commission

2658
01:48:06,369 --> 01:48:08,619
does decide to go forward
with this proposal,

2659
01:48:08,619 --> 01:48:10,855
I hope that that change
would be made there.

2660
01:48:10,855 --> 01:48:13,779
You're not going
to see any of

2661
01:48:13,779 --> 01:48:15,729
these temporary
dwellings allowed

2662
01:48:15,729 --> 01:48:17,815
just because of
that failure.

2663
01:48:17,815 --> 01:48:20,080
Okay. Thank you.

2664
01:48:20,080 --> 01:48:22,584
Any questions of Kelly?

2665
01:48:22,584 --> 01:48:27,710
Thanks. Mr. Eager.

2666
01:48:37,610 --> 01:48:39,824
I'm Mark Nasir,

2667
01:48:39,824 --> 01:48:41,460
grassy farmer from

2668
01:48:41,460 --> 01:48:44,080
Lebanon area
in Lin County.

2669
01:48:45,080 --> 01:48:47,340
I tried to

2670
01:48:47,340 --> 01:48:49,815
understand these
proposals somewhat.

2671
01:48:49,815 --> 01:48:51,434
Proposal number one,

2672
01:48:51,434 --> 01:48:54,374
which what we're
trying to do here

2673
01:48:54,374 --> 01:48:56,729
is is allowed dwellings

2674
01:48:56,729 --> 01:48:58,949
to represent the
commercial agriculture.

2675
01:48:58,949 --> 01:49:01,965
I don't believe that's
a very good test.

2676
01:49:01,965 --> 01:49:04,470
All it takes us
two or $300,000

2677
01:49:04,470 --> 01:49:05,639
to buy a piece
of property,

2678
01:49:05,639 --> 01:49:07,409
to put a house on

2679
01:49:07,409 --> 01:49:09,329
a net doesn't take a
very big house if you're

2680
01:49:09,329 --> 01:49:11,040
coming from
Southern California

2681
01:49:11,040 --> 01:49:12,059
to come up here and

2682
01:49:12,059 --> 01:49:13,859
build a house and
we're having problems

2683
01:49:13,859 --> 01:49:14,459
with those type of

2684
01:49:14,459 --> 01:49:16,319
people that are
doing that.

2685
01:49:16,319 --> 01:49:18,249
Number two is, it's

2686
01:49:18,249 --> 01:49:19,330
not real clear
to me at all.

2687
01:49:19,330 --> 01:49:20,590
I'm not I'm not sure

2688
01:49:20,590 --> 01:49:22,765
what that is and I
didn't see it in there.

2689
01:49:22,765 --> 01:49:23,980
To me, it wasn't
clear that she even

2690
01:49:23,980 --> 01:49:25,929
had to be the
person farm and

2691
01:49:25,929 --> 01:49:28,449
the property to
meet that test

2692
01:49:28,449 --> 01:49:29,589
and maybe that was

2693
01:49:29,589 --> 01:49:31,209
in there, but I
didn't see it.

2694
01:49:31,209 --> 01:49:34,569
Number three, the
$40,000 gross.

2695
01:49:34,569 --> 01:49:36,490
That doesn't mean that

2696
01:49:36,490 --> 01:49:38,364
it's not a very good test.

2697
01:49:38,364 --> 01:49:40,300
I can custom farm and I do

2698
01:49:40,300 --> 01:49:41,739
some custom farming
for different people.

2699
01:49:41,739 --> 01:49:43,330
All you have to
do is come in,

2700
01:49:43,330 --> 01:49:44,620
have a piece of
ground and asked me

2701
01:49:44,620 --> 01:49:45,955
to custom farm
it for a year.

2702
01:49:45,955 --> 01:49:47,274
I'll charge you
so much for every

2703
01:49:47,274 --> 01:49:48,820
application I go
over the field.

2704
01:49:48,820 --> 01:49:50,859
You can grow as
$40,000 on a small,

2705
01:49:50,859 --> 01:49:53,094
small parcel of land
and envy a farmer.

2706
01:49:53,094 --> 01:49:54,655
And that's not,
that's not,

2707
01:49:54,655 --> 01:49:55,510
that doesn't represent

2708
01:49:55,510 --> 01:49:56,725
commercial agriculture.

2709
01:49:56,725 --> 01:49:59,919
I guess I should give
a little my history.

2710
01:49:59,919 --> 01:50:01,509
Third-generation farmer

2711
01:50:01,509 --> 01:50:04,104
on the home place
where I'm living,

2712
01:50:04,104 --> 01:50:07,075
been farming for
about 17 years.

2713
01:50:07,075 --> 01:50:10,329
I raised about 2,500

2714
01:50:10,329 --> 01:50:12,250
acres of ryegrass
and seed crops.

2715
01:50:12,250 --> 01:50:16,060
I've got 44, 45 different
landlords trying

2716
01:50:16,060 --> 01:50:17,950
to buy the house

2717
01:50:17,950 --> 01:50:20,334
and 40 acres on one
end of the home place,

2718
01:50:20,334 --> 01:50:21,790
a gross five to

2719
01:50:21,790 --> 01:50:24,205
600,000 a year over
the last five years.

2720
01:50:24,205 --> 01:50:27,849
And in net income on
ads only 20 to $25,000.

2721
01:50:27,849 --> 01:50:31,419
So these other things,
you're still pushing,

2722
01:50:31,419 --> 01:50:33,250
it's hard for

2723
01:50:33,250 --> 01:50:35,379
the bonafide farmer out
here to meet these.

2724
01:50:35,379 --> 01:50:37,659
I mean, it's to
compete with

2725
01:50:37,659 --> 01:50:39,040
these other people that
can come in and buy

2726
01:50:39,040 --> 01:50:41,215
these pieces of
ground and do this.

2727
01:50:41,215 --> 01:50:43,359
I farm up to 14 mi

2728
01:50:43,359 --> 01:50:46,149
away and a lot of
little parcels

2729
01:50:46,149 --> 01:50:51,744
and we have all
the farm dwellings

2730
01:50:51,744 --> 01:50:53,019
that we need
in Lin County.

2731
01:50:53,019 --> 01:50:54,504
We don't need anymore

2732
01:50:54,504 --> 01:50:56,125
farm dwellings out there.

2733
01:50:56,125 --> 01:50:58,000
There's enough there's
enough buildings

2734
01:50:58,000 --> 01:50:59,574
for people to live in.

2735
01:50:59,574 --> 01:51:00,835
That's not the problem.

2736
01:51:00,835 --> 01:51:03,699
And I really, there's
been some reference to

2737
01:51:03,699 --> 01:51:06,339
Cliff Carnegie
side proposal

2738
01:51:06,339 --> 01:51:08,290
and I think that's
a bonafide proposal

2739
01:51:08,290 --> 01:51:09,790
that farmers out there and

2740
01:51:09,790 --> 01:51:11,454
making a living
off the farm

2741
01:51:11,454 --> 01:51:13,525
that represent
commercial agriculture.

2742
01:51:13,525 --> 01:51:14,965
Most of them
have a banker.

2743
01:51:14,965 --> 01:51:16,359
If they don't, that

2744
01:51:16,359 --> 01:51:18,594
shouldn't be a problem
for him anyway.

2745
01:51:18,594 --> 01:51:20,739
That's not very
restricted.

2746
01:51:20,739 --> 01:51:23,109
Have you seen
that it shows

2747
01:51:23,109 --> 01:51:24,744
that your 1040 at
the end of the year

2748
01:51:24,744 --> 01:51:25,839
justifies that you can

2749
01:51:25,839 --> 01:51:28,959
afford to have a
House of that name,

2750
01:51:28,959 --> 01:51:30,250
to build a house
on that size.

2751
01:51:30,250 --> 01:51:32,139
I think that's a very
simple proposal.

2752
01:51:32,139 --> 01:51:33,579
If you'd look at
that seriously.

2753
01:51:33,579 --> 01:51:35,109
These others, they've got

2754
01:51:35,109 --> 01:51:37,210
too many loopholes and
that's what I believe

2755
01:51:37,210 --> 01:51:37,930
you're trying to do here

2756
01:51:37,930 --> 01:51:39,579
is kept the loopholes

2757
01:51:39,579 --> 01:51:47,035
out on I guess that's
that's enough.

2758
01:51:47,035 --> 01:51:49,149
Hold it.

2759
01:51:49,149 --> 01:51:51,160
A question for Mark.

2760
01:51:51,160 --> 01:51:52,104
Yes.

2761
01:51:52,104 --> 01:51:53,889
George Pugh testified
he comes from

2762
01:51:53,889 --> 01:51:55,270
not too many miles
from where you

2763
01:51:55,270 --> 01:51:56,995
are that he just
couldn't think back.

2764
01:51:56,995 --> 01:51:57,429
There had been

2765
01:51:57,429 --> 01:52:00,039
a single farmhouse
built anywhere

2766
01:52:00,039 --> 01:52:01,494
in his area that

2767
01:52:01,494 --> 01:52:03,670
hadn't replaced a
former dwelling.

2768
01:52:03,670 --> 01:52:05,614
Can it's your
memory pickup

2769
01:52:05,614 --> 01:52:07,240
that this is a common
thing anywhere.

2770
01:52:07,240 --> 01:52:09,579
Do you even know whether
it's ever happened?

2771
01:52:09,579 --> 01:52:11,545
I can think of two.

2772
01:52:11,545 --> 01:52:14,079
Since 1972, the
folks built

2773
01:52:14,079 --> 01:52:15,309
the house we're
living in the 17th

2774
01:52:15,309 --> 01:52:17,049
must be 73 or 74,

2775
01:52:17,049 --> 01:52:19,689
sine 360 acre parcel
that never had a house,

2776
01:52:19,689 --> 01:52:20,770
but it was my
grandfather's at

2777
01:52:20,770 --> 01:52:22,855
one time or another.

2778
01:52:22,855 --> 01:52:24,670
Well, no, the other one
replaced a house so I

2779
01:52:24,670 --> 01:52:27,520
can only think of one
in any other one.

2780
01:52:27,520 --> 01:52:29,499
So what is a very
common thing there

2781
01:52:29,499 --> 01:52:30,880
is it's not common at all.

2782
01:52:30,880 --> 01:52:31,885
Yeah. I don't know.

2783
01:52:31,885 --> 01:52:35,949
You know, it's not
my observation.

2784
01:52:35,949 --> 01:52:37,570
I don't see it. I don't
see it happening.

2785
01:52:37,570 --> 01:52:38,980
And that's why I say we've

2786
01:52:38,980 --> 01:52:40,375
got enough of those
things happening.

2787
01:52:40,375 --> 01:52:41,480
If you need a new house or

2788
01:52:41,480 --> 01:52:43,240
a lot of places to
build new houses,

2789
01:52:43,240 --> 01:52:44,965
there's little
houses out there.

2790
01:52:44,965 --> 01:52:47,349
But I would comment that
it's 80,000 that you

2791
01:52:47,349 --> 01:52:48,639
probably have to
meet in your area

2792
01:52:48,639 --> 01:52:50,079
because you're on
high-value land,

2793
01:52:50,079 --> 01:52:50,649
because you were in

2794
01:52:50,649 --> 01:52:52,000
grass seed and
grassy land,

2795
01:52:52,000 --> 01:52:53,769
most of that comes
out as high-value.

2796
01:52:53,769 --> 01:52:54,610
So you've got the

2797
01:52:54,610 --> 01:52:56,380
80,000 to worry
about instead of

2798
01:52:56,380 --> 01:53:00,410
just the 40 probably
say it's 500.

2799
01:53:01,860 --> 01:53:03,324
Okay.

2800
01:53:03,324 --> 01:53:04,375
Thanks very much.

2801
01:53:04,375 --> 01:53:04,779
Thank you.

2802
01:53:04,779 --> 01:53:06,499
Keith cubic.

2803
01:53:16,680 --> 01:53:19,224
Good afternoon,
commissioners.

2804
01:53:19,224 --> 01:53:21,369
I wonder if it's still
raining outside.

2805
01:53:21,369 --> 01:53:23,155
No windows down here.

2806
01:53:23,155 --> 01:53:26,350
The I'm Keith cubic from

2807
01:53:26,350 --> 01:53:27,579
Douglas County
and representing

2808
01:53:27,579 --> 01:53:28,450
the Douglas
County Board of

2809
01:53:28,450 --> 01:53:30,009
Commissioners today.

2810
01:53:30,009 --> 01:53:32,965
I submitted a memo
dated to 14 to you

2811
01:53:32,965 --> 01:53:36,040
concerning the forest
dwelling proposal.

2812
01:53:36,040 --> 01:53:37,869
I want to convey

2813
01:53:37,869 --> 01:53:39,339
that the Douglas
County Board of

2814
01:53:39,339 --> 01:53:40,464
Commissioners supports

2815
01:53:40,464 --> 01:53:43,419
a simple test for
farm dwellings.

2816
01:53:43,419 --> 01:53:44,980
And they would
propose that

2817
01:53:44,980 --> 01:53:46,540
simple tests should
just involve

2818
01:53:46,540 --> 01:53:48,069
current employment at

2819
01:53:48,069 --> 01:53:49,389
production capability of

2820
01:53:49,389 --> 01:53:52,029
$10,000 and a farm
management plan

2821
01:53:52,029 --> 01:53:55,160
based on soils and
our technical data.

2822
01:53:55,650 --> 01:53:58,510
With that said, I
would also like to

2823
01:53:58,510 --> 01:53:59,679
comment on the proposal

2824
01:53:59,679 --> 01:54:01,255
that you have before you.

2825
01:54:01,255 --> 01:54:05,229
And the proposal,
Douglas County could

2826
01:54:05,229 --> 01:54:07,239
support the three
alternatives for

2827
01:54:07,239 --> 01:54:09,295
foreign dwellings
with changes.

2828
01:54:09,295 --> 01:54:11,169
That's the
available today in

2829
01:54:11,169 --> 01:54:13,419
the handout and the
materials that you have.

2830
01:54:13,419 --> 01:54:15,489
And those proposals are

2831
01:54:15,489 --> 01:54:17,080
those changes to
the proposals?

2832
01:54:17,080 --> 01:54:18,699
I'd like to
first suggestion

2833
01:54:18,699 --> 01:54:21,445
test one, the
minimum size.

2834
01:54:21,445 --> 01:54:23,920
The commission
should consider

2835
01:54:23,920 --> 01:54:26,289
reducing the
acreage to 81,

2836
01:54:26,289 --> 01:54:30,685
60 acres consistent
with ORS to 15780,

2837
01:54:30,685 --> 01:54:32,049
and allow a local

2838
01:54:32,049 --> 01:54:33,759
justification of
a parcel sizes

2839
01:54:33,759 --> 01:54:35,619
below that
specified acreage

2840
01:54:35,619 --> 01:54:37,674
with LCD see review.

2841
01:54:37,674 --> 01:54:40,419
It is very important
that you not

2842
01:54:40,419 --> 01:54:42,909
do not establish a
conflicting lock

2843
01:54:42,909 --> 01:54:45,085
or parcel size system

2844
01:54:45,085 --> 01:54:46,599
like you have established

2845
01:54:46,599 --> 01:54:47,934
in the forest rules.

2846
01:54:47,934 --> 01:54:50,169
It's bad public
policy to tell

2847
01:54:50,169 --> 01:54:51,610
an individual you can

2848
01:54:51,610 --> 01:54:53,334
create an 80 acre parcel,

2849
01:54:53,334 --> 01:54:54,910
but you can't get
a building permit

2850
01:54:54,910 --> 01:54:56,904
unless you have 160 acres.

2851
01:54:56,904 --> 01:55:00,039
And so we asked serious
consideration of

2852
01:55:00,039 --> 01:55:02,665
that factor with that fact

2853
01:55:02,665 --> 01:55:05,290
in conjunction with test1.

2854
01:55:05,290 --> 01:55:07,720
A second change
that we'd like to

2855
01:55:07,720 --> 01:55:10,825
suggest is in Test3.

2856
01:55:10,825 --> 01:55:12,729
Douglas County
believes that

2857
01:55:12,729 --> 01:55:14,560
the income
threshold and test

2858
01:55:14,560 --> 01:55:18,820
three should be
reduced to $10,000.

2859
01:55:18,820 --> 01:55:20,320
You may hear
other proposals

2860
01:55:20,320 --> 01:55:22,585
today and $40,000,

2861
01:55:22,585 --> 01:55:25,540
or the mean income
over $10,000,

2862
01:55:25,540 --> 01:55:28,494
whichever is lower
for high-value lands.

2863
01:55:28,494 --> 01:55:31,899
The please note that
in Douglas County,

2864
01:55:31,899 --> 01:55:34,509
75% of our farms
make less than

2865
01:55:34,509 --> 01:55:37,540
$10,000.90 percent
of our farmers

2866
01:55:37,540 --> 01:55:39,685
make less than $40,000.

2867
01:55:39,685 --> 01:55:41,575
And it's the
commissioners would say

2868
01:55:41,575 --> 01:55:43,749
a one-size-fits-all
system does

2869
01:55:43,749 --> 01:55:45,744
not work in this state,

2870
01:55:45,744 --> 01:55:47,499
and especially
in our area,

2871
01:55:47,499 --> 01:55:48,850
our average
farm income and

2872
01:55:48,850 --> 01:55:52,010
Douglas County is $15,000.

2873
01:55:53,010 --> 01:55:57,399
Questions. I have a
couple more I'm sorry.

2874
01:55:57,399 --> 01:56:00,714
As overall and
concluding statements,

2875
01:56:00,714 --> 01:56:02,349
I'd also like to suggest

2876
01:56:02,349 --> 01:56:04,090
that Douglas County
are offered that

2877
01:56:04,090 --> 01:56:05,500
Douglas County does oppose

2878
01:56:05,500 --> 01:56:07,000
the temporary
dwelling provisions

2879
01:56:07,000 --> 01:56:08,994
added and proposed
by your staff,

2880
01:56:08,994 --> 01:56:10,599
their administrative
nightmares,

2881
01:56:10,599 --> 01:56:12,219
they're unreasonable
and they're

2882
01:56:12,219 --> 01:56:13,630
not the kind of thing
that we need to

2883
01:56:13,630 --> 01:56:15,774
have to administer
at the local level.

2884
01:56:15,774 --> 01:56:17,350
Also, you need to make

2885
01:56:17,350 --> 01:56:19,899
clear that there is
an authorization

2886
01:56:19,899 --> 01:56:22,720
for additional farm
dwellings consistent with

2887
01:56:22,720 --> 01:56:26,575
ORS to 15 to 88 oneth.

2888
01:56:26,575 --> 01:56:28,674
The current rule says

2889
01:56:28,674 --> 01:56:31,720
dwelling and
not dwellings,

2890
01:56:31,720 --> 01:56:32,680
and you need to deal with

2891
01:56:32,680 --> 01:56:35,090
the additional
dwellings issue.

2892
01:56:36,330 --> 01:56:38,815
Question No.

2893
01:56:38,815 --> 01:56:43,135
Keith, on your $15,000,

2894
01:56:43,135 --> 01:56:45,639
is that a net or
gross income?

2895
01:56:45,639 --> 01:56:46,405
Gross.

2896
01:56:46,405 --> 01:56:48,234
That's a gross
income? Yes, it is.

2897
01:56:48,234 --> 01:56:50,755
Are those full
full-time farmers?

2898
01:56:50,755 --> 01:56:54,400
The commercial
agricultural farming

2899
01:56:54,400 --> 01:56:56,499
in Douglas County
is not full-time.

2900
01:56:56,499 --> 01:56:58,539
Okay. So the majority

2901
01:56:58,539 --> 01:57:00,129
of them have an
outside job?

2902
01:57:00,129 --> 01:57:00,820
Yes.

2903
01:57:00,820 --> 01:57:04,060
Farming is a
supplemental thing.

2904
01:57:04,060 --> 01:57:05,529
No, they're outside job

2905
01:57:05,529 --> 01:57:07,879
is supplemental
to their farming.

2906
01:57:07,920 --> 01:57:10,580
Okay. Thanks.

2907
01:57:12,210 --> 01:57:14,530
They say that with
a straight face.

2908
01:57:14,530 --> 01:57:16,165
Yeah, absolutely.

2909
01:57:16,165 --> 01:57:18,985
Because the commercial
agricultural

2910
01:57:18,985 --> 01:57:21,715
commercial agriculture
in Douglas County

2911
01:57:21,715 --> 01:57:24,760
is not full-time farming
and it stopped make

2912
01:57:24,760 --> 01:57:25,960
the kind of
profits that are

2913
01:57:25,960 --> 01:57:27,654
anticipated in the
proposals here.

2914
01:57:27,654 --> 01:57:28,149
How do you call

2915
01:57:28,149 --> 01:57:29,650
a commercial
agriculture that,

2916
01:57:29,650 --> 01:57:31,690
because it is a low-income

2917
01:57:31,690 --> 01:57:32,815
commercial agriculture.

2918
01:57:32,815 --> 01:57:35,529
Our commercial
agriculture is not

2919
01:57:35,529 --> 01:57:36,819
the kind that is
characterized by

2920
01:57:36,819 --> 01:57:38,920
the incomes that are
proposed in these rules,

2921
01:57:38,920 --> 01:57:42,354
but it is commercial
in our area.

2922
01:57:42,354 --> 01:57:44,750
Thanks.

2923
01:57:45,120 --> 01:57:49,450
Okay. Other
questions. Thanks.

2924
01:57:49,450 --> 01:57:51,979
George horsemen.

2925
01:58:02,180 --> 01:58:05,025
My name is George
Flores, man.

2926
01:58:05,025 --> 01:58:08,594
I live in can be oregon
Clark, ms. County.

2927
01:58:08,594 --> 01:58:13,049
And my parents still
live out and Taggard,

2928
01:58:13,049 --> 01:58:15,299
which they start
forming out in 48,

2929
01:58:15,299 --> 01:58:18,915
which is now highlands
subdivision,

2930
01:58:18,915 --> 01:58:21,509
back into king city.

2931
01:58:21,509 --> 01:58:23,655
So I'm kinda
aware of where

2932
01:58:23,655 --> 01:58:25,634
early we're going
on to stuff.

2933
01:58:25,634 --> 01:58:30,239
And I have 31 acres
without a house on it.

2934
01:58:30,239 --> 01:58:34,530
Yeah. Key miles from
clack mask can be it's

2935
01:58:34,530 --> 01:58:35,729
1 mi away from

2936
01:58:35,729 --> 01:58:37,850
the proposed comprehensive

2937
01:58:37,850 --> 01:58:39,984
limits to the city.

2938
01:58:39,984 --> 01:58:42,100
And right now they can't

2939
01:58:42,100 --> 01:58:43,929
city it can be as
Terran up over

2940
01:58:43,929 --> 01:58:45,430
500 to 1,000 acres

2941
01:58:45,430 --> 01:58:46,930
of prime farmland
to put it

2942
01:58:46,930 --> 01:58:48,400
into houses so that

2943
01:58:48,400 --> 01:58:50,829
we can save
marginal farmlands.

2944
01:58:50,829 --> 01:58:53,709
And it's Klamath
County is holding up

2945
01:58:53,709 --> 01:58:55,450
marginal farm
ground That's not

2946
01:58:55,450 --> 01:58:58,330
economic and holding
up as prime farmland.

2947
01:58:58,330 --> 01:59:00,114
And this is the crime.

2948
01:59:00,114 --> 01:59:03,339
The, you are
asking people to

2949
01:59:03,339 --> 01:59:06,009
justify 1 mi radius

2950
01:59:06,009 --> 01:59:08,319
commercial farms,
clack miscounting.

2951
01:59:08,319 --> 01:59:09,595
It can't even identify

2952
01:59:09,595 --> 01:59:12,040
a commercial form
in the IRS damned.

2953
01:59:12,040 --> 01:59:13,779
Configured out how you can

2954
01:59:13,779 --> 01:59:16,539
identify what the
gross income or

2955
01:59:16,539 --> 01:59:18,790
something on a
nursery or on

2956
01:59:18,790 --> 01:59:21,190
a On truck garden farms

2957
01:59:21,190 --> 01:59:23,710
or stuff like this that
have irrigated Water,

2958
01:59:23,710 --> 01:59:26,410
have and have large
landmasses that

2959
01:59:26,410 --> 01:59:29,079
are beyond the contiguous
piece of your land

2960
01:59:29,079 --> 01:59:31,340
within a 1 mi disparate

2961
01:59:31,410 --> 01:59:33,550
1 mi limit goes

2962
01:59:33,550 --> 01:59:35,574
into the city
limits of candy.

2963
01:59:35,574 --> 01:59:38,469
I have out there I've
got truck Garden Farms,

2964
01:59:38,469 --> 01:59:40,749
I've got Cherokee know
it has 150 acres of

2965
01:59:40,749 --> 01:59:44,350
irrigated crops and right

2966
01:59:44,350 --> 01:59:46,179
beside me I've got
Deeds Sarah Park,

2967
01:59:46,179 --> 01:59:48,759
which is have
one acre lots

2968
01:59:48,759 --> 01:59:51,010
and to the west to
the north of me,

2969
01:59:51,010 --> 01:59:52,299
I got him another
subdivision

2970
01:59:52,299 --> 01:59:53,949
has got five acre lots.

2971
01:59:53,949 --> 01:59:56,365
And we have this
all around us.

2972
01:59:56,365 --> 01:59:58,810
In fact, there I have
this other piece of

2973
01:59:58,810 --> 02:00:01,820
ground is 20 acres
is a wave from it.

2974
02:00:01,820 --> 02:00:03,749
Last year, my car was

2975
02:00:03,749 --> 02:00:05,729
totally vandalized
on my property

2976
02:00:05,729 --> 02:00:07,634
because I left
at unintended

2977
02:00:07,634 --> 02:00:10,065
with nobody there
to back it up.

2978
02:00:10,065 --> 02:00:11,849
In five-years
ago, somebody

2979
02:00:11,849 --> 02:00:14,085
stole a disk off
my property.

2980
02:00:14,085 --> 02:00:15,840
This is the kind
of stuff that's

2981
02:00:15,840 --> 02:00:16,979
going on in our area.

2982
02:00:16,979 --> 02:00:18,120
And I say I'm
trying to build

2983
02:00:18,120 --> 02:00:19,410
a house out there now

2984
02:00:19,410 --> 02:00:22,470
so I can protect what
little property right.

2985
02:00:22,470 --> 02:00:24,705
I have left to
hold my property.

2986
02:00:24,705 --> 02:00:26,399
In the county right

2987
02:00:26,399 --> 02:00:27,810
now is busy
trying to make it

2988
02:00:27,810 --> 02:00:29,100
so that we can't
even build a house

2989
02:00:29,100 --> 02:00:30,809
on 31 acres of land.

2990
02:00:30,809 --> 02:00:32,910
I look at the definition
here and I said,

2991
02:00:32,910 --> 02:00:35,909
okay, Milan does
not have water.

2992
02:00:35,909 --> 02:00:38,520
Therefore, why MY
land being equated

2993
02:00:38,520 --> 02:00:41,549
to land has got
water rights.

2994
02:00:41,549 --> 02:00:47,980
The land he has got
class 12346 soils on it.

2995
02:00:47,980 --> 02:00:49,659
It's in 31 acres.

2996
02:00:49,659 --> 02:00:52,509
It lays out real odd
like I can't get

2997
02:00:52,509 --> 02:00:54,130
a Christmas tree farm
or in near to rent

2998
02:00:54,130 --> 02:00:57,265
the land because
it lays out wrong.

2999
02:00:57,265 --> 02:00:59,724
The, I can't get
anybody with

3000
02:00:59,724 --> 02:01:01,750
berries in it because
it doesn't have water.

3001
02:01:01,750 --> 02:01:02,889
And if it did have water,

3002
02:01:02,889 --> 02:01:04,809
the land is such that you

3003
02:01:04,809 --> 02:01:06,639
can't grow the crops

3004
02:01:06,639 --> 02:01:08,619
in this part of
the property.

3005
02:01:08,619 --> 02:01:10,660
And now you people are

3006
02:01:10,660 --> 02:01:12,814
coming around here
in saying that, Hey,

3007
02:01:12,814 --> 02:01:14,140
you're not telling
us what you're

3008
02:01:14,140 --> 02:01:15,610
gonna do with the farmland

3009
02:01:15,610 --> 02:01:17,049
doesn't meet your 10,000

3010
02:01:17,049 --> 02:01:19,179
or 20,000 daughter
criteria.

3011
02:01:19,179 --> 02:01:22,405
And if you have
five acres,

3012
02:01:22,405 --> 02:01:24,625
five tons per acre
of alfalfa hay,

3013
02:01:24,625 --> 02:01:26,410
which is the
good farmland,

3014
02:01:26,410 --> 02:01:27,670
the poorer foreign land,

3015
02:01:27,670 --> 02:01:29,080
you can't put alfalfa hay.

3016
02:01:29,080 --> 02:01:31,149
So on either 31 acres,

3017
02:01:31,149 --> 02:01:32,230
I got about ten acres.

3018
02:01:32,230 --> 02:01:33,399
I can put alfalfa hay

3019
02:01:33,399 --> 02:01:34,300
on it and the rest of it,

3020
02:01:34,300 --> 02:01:36,639
I gotta deal with
marginal crops.

3021
02:01:36,639 --> 02:01:39,070
Because in the county

3022
02:01:39,070 --> 02:01:40,209
turns around
and you people

3023
02:01:40,209 --> 02:01:41,020
are here sitting around,

3024
02:01:41,020 --> 02:01:42,519
you're holding it
up and say, Well,

3025
02:01:42,519 --> 02:01:43,839
you got to keep
that ground for

3026
02:01:43,839 --> 02:01:45,309
dwelling for not for

3027
02:01:45,309 --> 02:01:46,900
not having a
dwelling on it.

3028
02:01:46,900 --> 02:01:49,509
And yet the same
time the county is,

3029
02:01:49,509 --> 02:01:52,000
city is going out
there and tear on up.

3030
02:01:52,000 --> 02:01:54,189
And given a farmer's
for 50 acres,

3031
02:01:54,189 --> 02:01:56,350
$1 million for 50
acres of land,

3032
02:01:56,350 --> 02:01:57,640
and you're turning
it down because

3033
02:01:57,640 --> 02:01:59,094
it's not enough money.

3034
02:01:59,094 --> 02:02:00,939
And these farmers
are going to get it

3035
02:02:00,939 --> 02:02:02,710
because the city
it can be does not

3036
02:02:02,710 --> 02:02:05,439
bypass the prime
farmland and

3037
02:02:05,439 --> 02:02:06,580
bring the sewers out

3038
02:02:06,580 --> 02:02:08,515
to the nonprime farmland.

3039
02:02:08,515 --> 02:02:11,109
It's happening in
Washington County,

3040
02:02:11,109 --> 02:02:12,670
is happening in
Hillsborough.

3041
02:02:12,670 --> 02:02:14,365
You've got the
Dawson park,

3042
02:02:14,365 --> 02:02:16,299
industrial park, look at

3043
02:02:16,299 --> 02:02:19,149
NEC, looking at Intel,

3044
02:02:19,149 --> 02:02:21,940
intel, look at Nike,

3045
02:02:21,940 --> 02:02:23,724
look at all those vast

3046
02:02:23,724 --> 02:02:26,845
dust real complexes have
taken up prime form.

3047
02:02:26,845 --> 02:02:28,480
And you're down
here trying to

3048
02:02:28,480 --> 02:02:29,859
tell people now that

3049
02:02:29,859 --> 02:02:31,210
you've got the
marginal land

3050
02:02:31,210 --> 02:02:33,115
and you can't put
a house on it.

3051
02:02:33,115 --> 02:02:34,714
And I think there's
a crime to it.

3052
02:02:34,714 --> 02:02:36,009
And in section 36

3053
02:02:36,009 --> 02:02:38,050
over on with gut
the 20 acres,

3054
02:02:38,050 --> 02:02:40,690
the average lot
size in 1970,

3055
02:02:40,690 --> 02:02:44,979
9.640 acres was
10.3 acres.

3056
02:02:44,979 --> 02:02:46,975
You're trying to say now.

3057
02:02:46,975 --> 02:02:48,115
You're trying to
say, well, that's

3058
02:02:48,115 --> 02:02:49,180
EOQ formula

3059
02:02:49,180 --> 02:02:51,444
and it wasn't it
was Mrs. owned.

3060
02:02:51,444 --> 02:02:53,785
It should have never
been few farmland.

3061
02:02:53,785 --> 02:02:55,510
We tell them what
we should have

3062
02:02:55,510 --> 02:02:57,535
had out there
was rain belt.

3063
02:02:57,535 --> 02:02:59,260
If you were
farming land and

3064
02:02:59,260 --> 02:03:01,089
you were producing
the income from it,

3065
02:03:01,089 --> 02:03:02,904
you got the Green
Belt assessment.

3066
02:03:02,904 --> 02:03:04,989
You didn't get
EF use zoning.

3067
02:03:04,989 --> 02:03:06,489
You now you've come around

3068
02:03:06,489 --> 02:03:08,229
and prime land zone

3069
02:03:08,229 --> 02:03:09,369
all this land and calling

3070
02:03:09,369 --> 02:03:12,560
it he FU and it
really isn't.

3071
02:03:12,600 --> 02:03:14,140
Thank you.

3072
02:03:14,140 --> 02:03:16,464
Any questions? Of course
I have a question.

3073
02:03:16,464 --> 02:03:19,195
Or are you a
farmer yourself?

3074
02:03:19,195 --> 02:03:23,110
I formed part-time up

3075
02:03:23,110 --> 02:03:25,329
to 200 acres
around my area.

3076
02:03:25,329 --> 02:03:27,774
I had I own 90 acres.

3077
02:03:27,774 --> 02:03:29,260
I've sold off
40, 20 acres.

3078
02:03:29,260 --> 02:03:30,519
I was forced
to sell off to

3079
02:03:30,519 --> 02:03:32,169
the Farmers Home
Administration.

3080
02:03:32,169 --> 02:03:34,285
This is how land was
bought and sold.

3081
02:03:34,285 --> 02:03:36,100
It was forced off
you or he is so

3082
02:03:36,100 --> 02:03:37,299
forth off another person

3083
02:03:37,299 --> 02:03:39,130
because in the
urine status.

3084
02:03:39,130 --> 02:03:41,304
And what's going
on right now,

3085
02:03:41,304 --> 02:03:43,060
people are gonna be
selling their property

3086
02:03:43,060 --> 02:03:44,290
because you're
gonna be forced

3087
02:03:44,290 --> 02:03:46,419
to pay the
inheritance taxes.

3088
02:03:46,419 --> 02:03:50,979
On the one hand, I heard
you say that you had

3089
02:03:50,979 --> 02:03:53,529
your car pickup
or something

3090
02:03:53,529 --> 02:03:55,419
vandalized because you had

3091
02:03:55,419 --> 02:03:57,684
parked on a piece of
property that June?

3092
02:03:57,684 --> 02:03:58,990
I had done last year,

3093
02:03:58,990 --> 02:04:02,380
we have to keep

3094
02:04:02,380 --> 02:04:04,329
a vehicle for grabbing
back-and-forth.

3095
02:04:04,329 --> 02:04:06,160
Yeah. It turned out

3096
02:04:06,160 --> 02:04:07,899
I left it overnight

3097
02:04:07,899 --> 02:04:09,310
in the field
next morning and

3098
02:04:09,310 --> 02:04:10,599
come up there and
it was totally

3099
02:04:10,599 --> 02:04:12,235
trashed and
insurance wanted to

3100
02:04:12,235 --> 02:04:16,900
to to to total
the Colorado.

3101
02:04:16,900 --> 02:04:19,390
So this is is this
a piece of property

3102
02:04:19,390 --> 02:04:23,034
you're trying to
build a home loan?

3103
02:04:23,034 --> 02:04:26,859
What would you suggest
that we do to try

3104
02:04:26,859 --> 02:04:30,700
and protect the
better farmland?

3105
02:04:30,700 --> 02:04:34,315
First of all, we have
to identify ourselves

3106
02:04:34,315 --> 02:04:38,290
with what is the land

3107
02:04:38,290 --> 02:04:41,019
being capable of
doing right now.

3108
02:04:41,019 --> 02:04:42,699
They can be planning
department is

3109
02:04:42,699 --> 02:04:44,785
not recognizing
water rights.

3110
02:04:44,785 --> 02:04:46,420
Water rights in
this day and

3111
02:04:46,420 --> 02:04:48,130
age are various Central.

3112
02:04:48,130 --> 02:04:50,079
I went down to the
water master down

3113
02:04:50,079 --> 02:04:52,315
here and we found
out that land

3114
02:04:52,315 --> 02:04:55,179
lies between the
Malala River in

3115
02:04:55,179 --> 02:04:57,790
the in the
Willamette River

3116
02:04:57,790 --> 02:05:00,370
is classified as
non water use land.

3117
02:05:00,370 --> 02:05:01,449
You can get no more

3118
02:05:01,449 --> 02:05:03,729
irrigation permits
for that water.

3119
02:05:03,729 --> 02:05:06,175
The area that wasn't,

3120
02:05:06,175 --> 02:05:07,360
such as my array, was

3121
02:05:07,360 --> 02:05:09,219
not designated
as water, right.

3122
02:05:09,219 --> 02:05:11,214
One paired parcel
of property,

3123
02:05:11,214 --> 02:05:13,929
they can only get ten
gallons a minute wells.

3124
02:05:13,929 --> 02:05:16,119
If the neighbor went down

3125
02:05:16,119 --> 02:05:18,010
to and got 50
gallon a minute and

3126
02:05:18,010 --> 02:05:19,779
write down 350 ft

3127
02:05:19,779 --> 02:05:22,614
in five years later,
the well cavity.

3128
02:05:22,614 --> 02:05:24,310
So I can prove to

3129
02:05:24,310 --> 02:05:26,049
you with a
history of wells,

3130
02:05:26,049 --> 02:05:28,719
probably almost 50 or
60 wells in my area

3131
02:05:28,719 --> 02:05:30,174
within a mild my place

3132
02:05:30,174 --> 02:05:32,215
that there are
no water rights.

3133
02:05:32,215 --> 02:05:33,850
The question is then,

3134
02:05:33,850 --> 02:05:36,550
why are we holding
this ground hostage?

3135
02:05:36,550 --> 02:05:39,220
That it's prime
farmland when it's not

3136
02:05:39,220 --> 02:05:42,910
I can't be doing
compared to Mr.

3137
02:05:42,910 --> 02:05:44,335
Chair again oh,
who's running

3138
02:05:44,335 --> 02:05:47,155
150 acres and
he's got probably

3139
02:05:47,155 --> 02:05:50,515
$1,500 gross income
per acre using

3140
02:05:50,515 --> 02:05:52,075
radishes and cabinet in

3141
02:05:52,075 --> 02:05:54,024
other cauliflower
and stuff like this.

3142
02:05:54,024 --> 02:05:55,884
And then you say, well,

3143
02:05:55,884 --> 02:05:58,540
that's what you got to
compare yourself to.

3144
02:05:58,540 --> 02:06:00,355
And I said, I can't,
I don't have it,

3145
02:06:00,355 --> 02:06:02,920
but you want to exceed
the next person to you

3146
02:06:02,920 --> 02:06:06,549
is five acres.
That's wrong.

3147
02:06:06,549 --> 02:06:08,889
Inhabit a budding
to my property.

3148
02:06:08,889 --> 02:06:12,670
At the same time,
I sold 20 acres to

3149
02:06:12,670 --> 02:06:18,774
a my 20 acres that
was sold in 1986.

3150
02:06:18,774 --> 02:06:21,774
A contractor build a
house on it in 1991,

3151
02:06:21,774 --> 02:06:24,189
and he falsified a farm
management plan that

3152
02:06:24,189 --> 02:06:26,979
would produce
$500,000 of income

3153
02:06:26,979 --> 02:06:29,440
on his property in
the Klamath County

3154
02:06:29,440 --> 02:06:31,210
combined department
has not stopped

3155
02:06:31,210 --> 02:06:33,340
him in the furthermore,

3156
02:06:33,340 --> 02:06:34,480
it's in violation of

3157
02:06:34,480 --> 02:06:35,769
this farm management plan

3158
02:06:35,769 --> 02:06:36,850
that he was going
to do this.

3159
02:06:36,850 --> 02:06:38,770
He's not running
horses on it.

3160
02:06:38,770 --> 02:06:39,729
But again, they're not

3161
02:06:39,729 --> 02:06:40,795
doing anything about it.

3162
02:06:40,795 --> 02:06:42,249
In the meantime,
the man is

3163
02:06:42,249 --> 02:06:43,629
running a commercial
trucking,

3164
02:06:43,629 --> 02:06:45,099
running a

3165
02:06:45,099 --> 02:06:47,650
commercial construction
company offers blaze,

3166
02:06:47,650 --> 02:06:48,820
and nothing is being done

3167
02:06:48,820 --> 02:06:50,019
about it were
being harassed

3168
02:06:50,019 --> 02:06:51,220
by this by holding this

3169
02:06:51,220 --> 02:06:53,540
up is if you're zoning.

3170
02:06:53,610 --> 02:06:55,899
But thank you. Thank you.

3171
02:06:55,899 --> 02:06:57,339
Thanks.

3172
02:06:57,339 --> 02:07:00,850
Thanks very much. I want

3173
02:07:00,850 --> 02:07:01,810
to just let the
commissioners

3174
02:07:01,810 --> 02:07:02,680
know where we are.

3175
02:07:02,680 --> 02:07:05,050
We are about halfway

3176
02:07:05,050 --> 02:07:06,220
through the number of
people who want to

3177
02:07:06,220 --> 02:07:08,739
testify and the rate

3178
02:07:08,739 --> 02:07:10,404
we're going it'll be
six before we leave.

3179
02:07:10,404 --> 02:07:11,695
Just let everybody know.

3180
02:07:11,695 --> 02:07:12,985
They close it.

3181
02:07:12,985 --> 02:07:13,854
Okay.

3182
02:07:13,854 --> 02:07:15,460
Well, I just want to

3183
02:07:15,460 --> 02:07:18,084
let it means we can't
tell me. Shut up.

3184
02:07:18,084 --> 02:07:22,070
Yeah. Blair Batson,

3185
02:07:22,530 --> 02:07:31,309
workplace journey.

3186
02:07:35,250 --> 02:07:37,480
I just I'd say
right now to

3187
02:07:37,480 --> 02:07:39,355
that, I just stopped.

3188
02:07:39,355 --> 02:07:41,319
Accepting anymore
requests to

3189
02:07:41,319 --> 02:07:43,240
testify to. Thank you.

3190
02:07:43,240 --> 02:07:45,340
Good afternoon. My name
is Blair bats and I'm

3191
02:07:45,340 --> 02:07:47,440
representing 1,000
friends of Oregon.

3192
02:07:47,440 --> 02:07:48,550
Mindful of the need to

3193
02:07:48,550 --> 02:07:49,705
keep the comments short,

3194
02:07:49,705 --> 02:07:51,850
I'm going to direct
most of our comments

3195
02:07:51,850 --> 02:07:54,699
to test number three,

3196
02:07:54,699 --> 02:07:56,350
which we have the
greatest concerns about.

3197
02:07:56,350 --> 02:07:58,089
But upfront, I want
to let you know

3198
02:07:58,089 --> 02:08:01,059
that the proposed tests
performed dwellings.

3199
02:08:01,059 --> 02:08:02,799
We believe that the
test recommended

3200
02:08:02,799 --> 02:08:04,029
by clip Carnegie does

3201
02:08:04,029 --> 02:08:05,379
the best job within

3202
02:08:05,379 --> 02:08:07,899
a fine commercial
commercial farmers.

3203
02:08:07,899 --> 02:08:09,639
We would also
support tests

3204
02:08:09,639 --> 02:08:11,139
three recommended by

3205
02:08:11,139 --> 02:08:12,880
the technical
resource committee

3206
02:08:12,880 --> 02:08:14,460
set forth in February 10,

3207
02:08:14,460 --> 02:08:17,334
1994 memo from the
TRC to LCD see,

3208
02:08:17,334 --> 02:08:18,790
even though it
as gross income

3209
02:08:18,790 --> 02:08:20,215
levels or excessively low,

3210
02:08:20,215 --> 02:08:23,230
we think it will cut out
the vast majority of

3211
02:08:23,230 --> 02:08:24,910
abuses we're seeing
now and would like to

3212
02:08:24,910 --> 02:08:27,430
see it tested
on the ground.

3213
02:08:27,430 --> 02:08:29,169
We urge the Commission to

3214
02:08:29,169 --> 02:08:31,690
reject alternative
tests, 1.2,

3215
02:08:31,690 --> 02:08:33,009
either as recommended by

3216
02:08:33,009 --> 02:08:36,640
the TRC or as
modified by the LCD.

3217
02:08:36,640 --> 02:08:38,919
Our greatest concern
is with test

3218
02:08:38,919 --> 02:08:41,829
to the production
capabilities standard.

3219
02:08:41,829 --> 02:08:43,930
First of all, the
test is not seemed to

3220
02:08:43,930 --> 02:08:45,549
implement the existing

3221
02:08:45,549 --> 02:08:47,559
legislative policy
performed dwellings

3222
02:08:47,559 --> 02:08:48,429
and exclusive from you

3223
02:08:48,429 --> 02:08:50,379
since there's
nothing in test

3224
02:08:50,379 --> 02:08:52,600
to that requires the
dwelling applicant

3225
02:08:52,600 --> 02:08:53,994
to be farming
for a profit.

3226
02:08:53,994 --> 02:08:55,869
That's the
statutory policy.

3227
02:08:55,869 --> 02:08:57,369
There's also
nothing to prevent

3228
02:08:57,369 --> 02:08:59,530
the conversion of valuable
agricultural land.

3229
02:08:59,530 --> 02:09:01,330
Residential development.

3230
02:09:01,330 --> 02:09:03,579
Not every parcel
in the EF use m

3231
02:09:03,579 --> 02:09:05,664
will be eligible for
dwelling into this test,

3232
02:09:05,664 --> 02:09:07,719
but no one on
the TRC or in

3233
02:09:07,719 --> 02:09:10,104
the department
knows or can know

3234
02:09:10,104 --> 02:09:12,460
at this point how
many particles

3235
02:09:12,460 --> 02:09:14,694
are very fine
farmland and simply,

3236
02:09:14,694 --> 02:09:16,089
good farmland will be

3237
02:09:16,089 --> 02:09:17,740
converted to residential
development under

3238
02:09:17,740 --> 02:09:19,599
this test because they

3239
02:09:19,599 --> 02:09:21,474
have the highest
production capability,

3240
02:09:21,474 --> 02:09:22,750
the high-value lands, or

3241
02:09:22,750 --> 02:09:24,834
most of those under
this standard.

3242
02:09:24,834 --> 02:09:26,109
The limited testing that's

3243
02:09:26,109 --> 02:09:27,535
been done by Jim Ps,

3244
02:09:27,535 --> 02:09:29,679
and the testimony by
handling Jenkins,

3245
02:09:29,679 --> 02:09:31,135
I think confirms
this hunch.

3246
02:09:31,135 --> 02:09:32,349
It's the high-value lands

3247
02:09:32,349 --> 02:09:33,205
that are really at risk

3248
02:09:33,205 --> 02:09:34,330
because they have higher

3249
02:09:34,330 --> 02:09:35,785
production capability.

3250
02:09:35,785 --> 02:09:38,710
So why should you adopt
as pig and the Polk?

3251
02:09:38,710 --> 02:09:41,379
The limited testing
that has been

3252
02:09:41,379 --> 02:09:43,479
done by Jim peas
indicates that

3253
02:09:43,479 --> 02:09:45,609
the test tube has
potential to damage

3254
02:09:45,609 --> 02:09:47,229
commercial
agricultural land by

3255
02:09:47,229 --> 02:09:49,224
converting it to
residential use.

3256
02:09:49,224 --> 02:09:51,459
Gym tease provided
thousand friends

3257
02:09:51,459 --> 02:09:53,109
and I imagine you with

3258
02:09:53,109 --> 02:09:54,970
the results of tests
to as applied to

3259
02:09:54,970 --> 02:09:56,109
one tract of
land and Benton

3260
02:09:56,109 --> 02:09:57,340
County in one shot,

3261
02:09:57,340 --> 02:09:58,929
two gland o'clock
Ms. County.

3262
02:09:58,929 --> 02:10:00,849
And the clock in
this county example,

3263
02:10:00,849 --> 02:10:02,679
six of the 12
trucks in the area

3264
02:10:02,679 --> 02:10:03,550
that were tested would be

3265
02:10:03,550 --> 02:10:04,884
eligible for a dwelling.

3266
02:10:04,884 --> 02:10:07,089
This included a 17.30 acre

3267
02:10:07,089 --> 02:10:09,655
tract for 22.36
acre tract,

3268
02:10:09,655 --> 02:10:11,995
a 27.45 acre tract,

3269
02:10:11,995 --> 02:10:14,065
that 33.32 acre tract,

3270
02:10:14,065 --> 02:10:15,789
but 35.30 acreage tract.

3271
02:10:15,789 --> 02:10:17,725
And at 406 acre tract,

3272
02:10:17,725 --> 02:10:19,509
there's no
information about

3273
02:10:19,509 --> 02:10:21,340
what is occurring on
these tracks now.

3274
02:10:21,340 --> 02:10:22,870
Are they or could
they be owned or

3275
02:10:22,870 --> 02:10:24,534
leased as part of a
commercial operation?

3276
02:10:24,534 --> 02:10:25,750
Perhaps Mr. P. Is can help

3277
02:10:25,750 --> 02:10:27,354
you with that tomorrow.

3278
02:10:27,354 --> 02:10:29,380
Last summer,
thousand friends

3279
02:10:29,380 --> 02:10:30,729
gathered information
from farmers

3280
02:10:30,729 --> 02:10:33,040
across the state and
attempt to determine

3281
02:10:33,040 --> 02:10:34,180
spatial
characteristics for

3282
02:10:34,180 --> 02:10:35,439
Oregon commercial farms.

3283
02:10:35,439 --> 02:10:37,330
In other words, how
big are the farms,

3284
02:10:37,330 --> 02:10:38,530
what size parcels and

3285
02:10:38,530 --> 02:10:40,600
how many parcels
comprise the farms?

3286
02:10:40,600 --> 02:10:41,920
How close to
the parcels to

3287
02:10:41,920 --> 02:10:43,240
one another, the
Homestead Act,

3288
02:10:43,240 --> 02:10:44,829
et cetera, following up on

3289
02:10:44,829 --> 02:10:46,450
the kind of work that's
been done by v-not.

3290
02:10:46,450 --> 02:10:48,009
And in earlier years,

3291
02:10:48,009 --> 02:10:49,990
we interviewed
only farmers who

3292
02:10:49,990 --> 02:10:52,510
operated on annual
basis and rely on

3293
02:10:52,510 --> 02:10:55,570
their farm operations as

3294
02:10:55,570 --> 02:10:57,760
the sole source of income
for their families.

3295
02:10:57,760 --> 02:10:58,600
I want to just give you

3296
02:10:58,600 --> 02:10:59,679
the results have how this

3297
02:10:59,679 --> 02:11:00,370
would work in the clock

3298
02:11:00,370 --> 02:11:01,495
in this county example,

3299
02:11:01,495 --> 02:11:03,025
the clock in
this county farm

3300
02:11:03,025 --> 02:11:04,269
included in the survey was

3301
02:11:04,269 --> 02:11:07,180
a 447 acre mixed
Rosenfield crop

3302
02:11:07,180 --> 02:11:08,710
and Christmas
tree operation.

3303
02:11:08,710 --> 02:11:10,884
It's been in operation
since the mid 20s,

3304
02:11:10,884 --> 02:11:12,669
is now operated
by two brothers.

3305
02:11:12,669 --> 02:11:14,050
The soils have the same

3306
02:11:14,050 --> 02:11:15,339
high production
capabilities.

3307
02:11:15,339 --> 02:11:17,754
Those testify Jim, piece
o'clock, Ms. County,

3308
02:11:17,754 --> 02:11:19,840
the farm consists
of 17 tracks,

3309
02:11:19,840 --> 02:11:21,084
much of which released

3310
02:11:21,084 --> 02:11:23,050
the Lord's check
is 55 acres,

3311
02:11:23,050 --> 02:11:24,369
the smallest, it's five.

3312
02:11:24,369 --> 02:11:28,159
The breakdown is
555-044-5306 3330, 2072,

3313
02:11:28,159 --> 02:11:34,059
0720 6204, 2020
1915, 65.5 acres.

3314
02:11:34,059 --> 02:11:36,100
There's 14 separate
lease agreements with

3315
02:11:36,100 --> 02:11:38,920
different individuals
for total of 313 acres.

3316
02:11:38,920 --> 02:11:40,824
Some at least land
joins, they own land.

3317
02:11:40,824 --> 02:11:44,485
Most is 234,810.12
mi away.

3318
02:11:44,485 --> 02:11:46,734
Under results similar
to the piece test,

3319
02:11:46,734 --> 02:11:49,825
which is a very similar
type of land base.

3320
02:11:49,825 --> 02:11:51,999
All parcels 17
acres and larger,

3321
02:11:51,999 --> 02:11:53,545
would be eligible
for a new dwelling

3322
02:11:53,545 --> 02:11:55,360
under test to all

3323
02:11:55,360 --> 02:11:56,769
before the tracks
would qualify

3324
02:11:56,769 --> 02:11:59,440
for individual
farm dwellings,

3325
02:11:59,440 --> 02:12:00,640
the chin lease tracks for

3326
02:12:00,640 --> 02:12:01,749
which a foreign
dwelling could

3327
02:12:01,749 --> 02:12:03,369
qualify with each meet

3328
02:12:03,369 --> 02:12:04,179
the requirements for

3329
02:12:04,179 --> 02:12:05,619
a new dwelling
into this test,

3330
02:12:05,619 --> 02:12:07,269
if the dwelling
applicant planted

3331
02:12:07,269 --> 02:12:08,740
the requisite
minimum acreage

3332
02:12:08,740 --> 02:12:10,030
of a high-value crop.

3333
02:12:10,030 --> 02:12:12,684
If these tracks were
sold his home sites,

3334
02:12:12,684 --> 02:12:14,200
this would reduce
the existing farm,

3335
02:12:14,200 --> 02:12:17,574
447-13035 acres,

3336
02:12:17,574 --> 02:12:20,740
which would no longer
be an economic unit.

3337
02:12:20,740 --> 02:12:21,700
We think this is

3338
02:12:21,700 --> 02:12:23,785
a realistic possibility
for this app,

3339
02:12:23,785 --> 02:12:25,420
the application of
this test and clock in

3340
02:12:25,420 --> 02:12:27,909
this county and other
high-value areas

3341
02:12:27,909 --> 02:12:30,849
that are experiencing
the kind

3342
02:12:30,849 --> 02:12:31,840
of population growth that

3343
02:12:31,840 --> 02:12:33,040
clock in this county is,

3344
02:12:33,040 --> 02:12:35,589
we urge you not to
adopt this test,

3345
02:12:35,589 --> 02:12:37,495
particularly in
high-value ends.

3346
02:12:37,495 --> 02:12:39,444
Thank you. Thank you all.

3347
02:12:39,444 --> 02:12:41,509
Thank you for this.

3348
02:12:41,509 --> 02:12:43,899
You're referring to
the Anthony's analysis

3349
02:12:43,899 --> 02:12:44,710
and you've got three

3350
02:12:44,710 --> 02:12:46,854
different are
so different.

3351
02:12:46,854 --> 02:12:50,949
Anthony retires analysis
goes to the use

3352
02:12:50,949 --> 02:12:52,360
of the median as

3353
02:12:52,360 --> 02:12:54,175
an indicator of what's
typical in an area.

3354
02:12:54,175 --> 02:12:55,254
There simply isn't time,

3355
02:12:55,254 --> 02:12:56,649
obviously now to
go into that,

3356
02:12:56,649 --> 02:12:57,865
but we're too
to look at it.

3357
02:12:57,865 --> 02:13:00,054
We have concerns.
Thank you. Thank you.

3358
02:13:00,054 --> 02:13:02,569
Other questions?
Questions of blur.

3359
02:13:02,850 --> 02:13:05,560
Thanks. Thank you.

3360
02:13:05,560 --> 02:13:09,400
Cliff can ag you've

3361
02:13:09,400 --> 02:13:11,485
been quoted here
half a dozen times,

3362
02:13:11,485 --> 02:13:14,389
so maybe don't even
have to speak.

3363
02:13:14,550 --> 02:13:17,439
Next year, I won't
have to come.

3364
02:13:17,439 --> 02:13:19,854
I am cliff Carnegie
from Albany

3365
02:13:19,854 --> 02:13:21,249
responding to the February

3366
02:13:21,249 --> 02:13:23,125
Kim TRC recommendations.

3367
02:13:23,125 --> 02:13:24,699
The process where at any

3368
02:13:24,699 --> 02:13:26,410
identifying farm
glowing standards

3369
02:13:26,410 --> 02:13:27,400
can be thought of as being

3370
02:13:27,400 --> 02:13:28,525
at three different levels.

3371
02:13:28,525 --> 02:13:30,744
Philosophical, technical,
and political.

3372
02:13:30,744 --> 02:13:33,070
They philosophical
question, who

3373
02:13:33,070 --> 02:13:34,269
should build
farm dwellings

3374
02:13:34,269 --> 02:13:35,425
on you if you land?

3375
02:13:35,425 --> 02:13:38,094
None farmers know,
hobby farmers?

3376
02:13:38,094 --> 02:13:39,895
No. Part-time farmers.

3377
02:13:39,895 --> 02:13:41,154
Qualified yes.

3378
02:13:41,154 --> 02:13:43,960
Farmers, yes. The
technical question,

3379
02:13:43,960 --> 02:13:45,729
how can the above
to implemented

3380
02:13:45,729 --> 02:13:47,200
without being
unnecessarily

3381
02:13:47,200 --> 02:13:48,594
restrictive of farmers?

3382
02:13:48,594 --> 02:13:50,559
How can the none
farmers to be kept out

3383
02:13:50,559 --> 02:13:52,465
by letting the committed
commercial farmer

3384
02:13:52,465 --> 02:13:56,379
in unimpeded test1 and
to fail completely,

3385
02:13:56,379 --> 02:13:57,790
I believe they have

3386
02:13:57,790 --> 02:14:00,100
nothing to do with
foreign dwellings.

3387
02:14:00,100 --> 02:14:02,979
Rather, they are
loopholes for

3388
02:14:02,979 --> 02:14:06,190
those who can afford a
jumbo building site.

3389
02:14:06,190 --> 02:14:08,499
Test three has a bit
of integrity in that

3390
02:14:08,499 --> 02:14:10,810
it requires a minimum
level of activity.

3391
02:14:10,810 --> 02:14:12,160
Still, it has little to do

3392
02:14:12,160 --> 02:14:13,359
with farm dwellings.

3393
02:14:13,359 --> 02:14:15,880
It has more to do
with harassing.

3394
02:14:15,880 --> 02:14:18,400
That would be country
dwellers jumped through

3395
02:14:18,400 --> 02:14:21,115
the hoops and
you're in $40,000.

3396
02:14:21,115 --> 02:14:22,389
Gross income is typically

3397
02:14:22,389 --> 02:14:24,414
6,000 net net income.

3398
02:14:24,414 --> 02:14:26,425
That is below the
poverty level.

3399
02:14:26,425 --> 02:14:27,789
That level level of

3400
02:14:27,789 --> 02:14:30,279
income does not
build houses.

3401
02:14:30,279 --> 02:14:32,079
The bar graph on
the back of this

3402
02:14:32,079 --> 02:14:35,259
page visualize as the
cost of a modest home.

3403
02:14:35,259 --> 02:14:36,834
The lower portion
of the bar

3404
02:14:36,834 --> 02:14:39,264
represents $40,000
gross income.

3405
02:14:39,264 --> 02:14:41,274
The upper portion
represents

3406
02:14:41,274 --> 02:14:44,079
additional funds required
to build the house.

3407
02:14:44,079 --> 02:14:47,259
This doesn't look like
a farm dwelling to me.

3408
02:14:47,259 --> 02:14:50,064
If you'd increase the
gross income test,

3409
02:14:50,064 --> 02:14:52,165
the 250,000,

3410
02:14:52,165 --> 02:14:54,920
I could support
test number three.

3411
02:14:54,990 --> 02:14:57,924
Responding to the
February 11th,

3412
02:14:57,924 --> 02:14:59,935
the LCDs recommendation.

3413
02:14:59,935 --> 02:15:03,100
It appears to me that
reality finally broke

3414
02:15:03,100 --> 02:15:05,020
through and the
department is now

3415
02:15:05,020 --> 02:15:07,825
working at damage
control. Bless them.

3416
02:15:07,825 --> 02:15:09,415
The extensive amendments

3417
02:15:09,415 --> 02:15:11,394
do achieve some
litigation.

3418
02:15:11,394 --> 02:15:14,230
However, I think a fresh
start is justified.

3419
02:15:14,230 --> 02:15:16,854
The planners have played
this game so long,

3420
02:15:16,854 --> 02:15:18,340
they are stuck in a rut.

3421
02:15:18,340 --> 02:15:20,680
Fresh idea if you're
right past them.

3422
02:15:20,680 --> 02:15:22,779
In March 1985, I proposed

3423
02:15:22,779 --> 02:15:24,789
and net income
test based on

3424
02:15:24,789 --> 02:15:27,369
income tax form
1040 F C Attachment

3425
02:15:27,369 --> 02:15:31,165
be seven years
later in 1992,

3426
02:15:31,165 --> 02:15:33,399
I finally got the
attention of 1,000

3427
02:15:33,399 --> 02:15:35,335
friends when
Anthony Buddha

3428
02:15:35,335 --> 02:15:37,030
gave it a warm
endorsement.

3429
02:15:37,030 --> 02:15:39,684
Now after another
15 months,

3430
02:15:39,684 --> 02:15:41,499
it is achieved
recognition in

3431
02:15:41,499 --> 02:15:45,070
the February Tim TRC
report, page six.

3432
02:15:45,070 --> 02:15:47,785
I look forward to
the next ten years.

3433
02:15:47,785 --> 02:15:50,800
The 1040 F net income test

3434
02:15:50,800 --> 02:15:51,969
does not pick an

3435
02:15:51,969 --> 02:15:53,590
arbitrary that
dollar figure.

3436
02:15:53,590 --> 02:15:55,839
The free market
determines the figure.

3437
02:15:55,839 --> 02:15:57,520
It is clear and objective.

3438
02:15:57,520 --> 02:15:59,200
It would be
difficult to abuse.

3439
02:15:59,200 --> 02:16:00,474
It would be easily
implemented.

3440
02:16:00,474 --> 02:16:02,139
The planning
department, it

3441
02:16:02,139 --> 02:16:04,150
would eliminate farm
management plans.

3442
02:16:04,150 --> 02:16:05,935
The free market does that.

3443
02:16:05,935 --> 02:16:08,185
Net income is
the bottom line.

3444
02:16:08,185 --> 02:16:10,509
It is the most important
figure to the IRS,

3445
02:16:10,509 --> 02:16:12,039
to bankers and to farmers.

3446
02:16:12,039 --> 02:16:13,449
Farmers ignore it at

3447
02:16:13,449 --> 02:16:15,804
their own peril.
It is not set.

3448
02:16:15,804 --> 02:16:17,080
It fluctuates in the free

3449
02:16:17,080 --> 02:16:18,355
market to the farmer,

3450
02:16:18,355 --> 02:16:20,125
interacts, they are in.

3451
02:16:20,125 --> 02:16:22,330
Thousands of farmers
annually obtain

3452
02:16:22,330 --> 02:16:23,620
bank loans and the basis

3453
02:16:23,620 --> 02:16:25,419
of their net
income not drove.

3454
02:16:25,419 --> 02:16:27,219
Farmers pay net
income tax on

3455
02:16:27,219 --> 02:16:29,455
income not gross income.

3456
02:16:29,455 --> 02:16:31,059
Farmers finance houses on

3457
02:16:31,059 --> 02:16:32,680
net income might droves.

3458
02:16:32,680 --> 02:16:34,090
I believe the
planning process

3459
02:16:34,090 --> 02:16:35,199
is short-changing itself

3460
02:16:35,199 --> 02:16:36,429
and not taking
a serious look

3461
02:16:36,429 --> 02:16:37,960
at the net income test.

3462
02:16:37,960 --> 02:16:41,200
Net income test would
keep the farmer out.

3463
02:16:41,200 --> 02:16:43,104
It would keep
hobby farmer out.

3464
02:16:43,104 --> 02:16:44,875
It would let
the farmer in.

3465
02:16:44,875 --> 02:16:47,439
And they would let
some part-time farmers

3466
02:16:47,439 --> 02:16:49,795
then those
part-time farmers

3467
02:16:49,795 --> 02:16:52,149
who aspire to become
full-time but

3468
02:16:52,149 --> 02:16:53,320
automatically qualify

3469
02:16:53,320 --> 02:16:54,819
for a manufactured house.

3470
02:16:54,819 --> 02:16:58,135
At the point where
he's nip in net income

3471
02:16:58,135 --> 02:16:59,769
matched 50% of what is

3472
02:16:59,769 --> 02:17:01,930
needed to qualify
for a regular house.

3473
02:17:01,930 --> 02:17:03,549
Manufactured houses cost

3474
02:17:03,549 --> 02:17:06,040
just half the cost
of regular houses.

3475
02:17:06,040 --> 02:17:08,289
Or you're about
to wrap up.

3476
02:17:08,289 --> 02:17:10,825
I can just click
here. And now

3477
02:17:10,825 --> 02:17:12,954
you're going to read
the rest of it anyway.

3478
02:17:12,954 --> 02:17:13,974
Okay.

3479
02:17:13,974 --> 02:17:15,710
Questions.

3480
02:17:16,380 --> 02:17:17,609
Okay.

3481
02:17:17,609 --> 02:17:20,379
I can't talk.

3482
02:17:20,379 --> 02:17:21,550
And just all I
did was tell

3483
02:17:21,550 --> 02:17:22,885
you your question.

3484
02:17:22,885 --> 02:17:23,919
You're fine. No.

3485
02:17:23,919 --> 02:17:25,254
Okay.

3486
02:17:25,254 --> 02:17:27,010
I understand.

3487
02:17:27,010 --> 02:17:27,759
Thanks, Clark.

3488
02:17:27,759 --> 02:17:29,485
You're a farmer.

3489
02:17:29,485 --> 02:17:31,420
He's afraid of
the net income.

3490
02:17:31,420 --> 02:17:33,010
One, outstanding or

3491
02:17:33,010 --> 02:17:36,410
feeling Dorothy
coffee, old.

3492
02:17:51,600 --> 02:17:53,919
Dorothy Caufield
with Oregon.

3493
02:17:53,919 --> 02:17:55,300
It's an action.

3494
02:17:55,300 --> 02:17:56,799
I have a statement that's

3495
02:17:56,799 --> 02:17:58,360
being passed around.

3496
02:17:58,360 --> 02:18:01,194
We oppose all three tests.

3497
02:18:01,194 --> 02:18:02,530
We oppose them because

3498
02:18:02,530 --> 02:18:03,610
we believe that there's

3499
02:18:03,610 --> 02:18:05,500
no racial rational
basis for

3500
02:18:05,500 --> 02:18:06,639
restricting
foreign dwellings

3501
02:18:06,639 --> 02:18:08,049
based on this test.

3502
02:18:08,049 --> 02:18:09,355
The potatoes.

3503
02:18:09,355 --> 02:18:10,810
The proposed tests are

3504
02:18:10,810 --> 02:18:12,624
based on two
faulty premises.

3505
02:18:12,624 --> 02:18:14,259
One is that all farms must

3506
02:18:14,259 --> 02:18:15,834
be large to be productive,

3507
02:18:15,834 --> 02:18:17,769
and to get a
dwelling on a parcel

3508
02:18:17,769 --> 02:18:20,290
interferes with
its productivity.

3509
02:18:20,290 --> 02:18:21,940
Regarding the size issue,

3510
02:18:21,940 --> 02:18:23,845
the US Department
of Agriculture

3511
02:18:23,845 --> 02:18:25,719
has done studies and

3512
02:18:25,719 --> 02:18:27,699
shows that farms that are

3513
02:18:27,699 --> 02:18:30,430
1-9 acres are the
most productive,

3514
02:18:30,430 --> 02:18:31,869
four times more
productive than

3515
02:18:31,869 --> 02:18:34,210
farms over 100 acres.

3516
02:18:34,210 --> 02:18:35,259
And I put that
chart on the

3517
02:18:35,259 --> 02:18:36,760
back of my testimony

3518
02:18:36,760 --> 02:18:38,440
regarding the impacts
of the dwelling

3519
02:18:38,440 --> 02:18:39,909
on a farm parcel.

3520
02:18:39,909 --> 02:18:41,949
We know of no studies
that show that

3521
02:18:41,949 --> 02:18:45,625
dwelling itself
interferes with farming.

3522
02:18:45,625 --> 02:18:48,970
And we believe that
the proposed tests or

3523
02:18:48,970 --> 02:18:50,259
woolly out of step with

3524
02:18:50,259 --> 02:18:52,720
the objectives of the TRC,

3525
02:18:52,720 --> 02:18:54,385
which is to make
the criteria

3526
02:18:54,385 --> 02:18:56,935
understandable and
rational to the public,

3527
02:18:56,935 --> 02:18:58,885
protect resource,
land, land,

3528
02:18:58,885 --> 02:19:00,924
and not be overly
intrusive.

3529
02:19:00,924 --> 02:19:04,329
We believe that is
overly intrusive to make

3530
02:19:04,329 --> 02:19:05,919
people that want to get

3531
02:19:05,919 --> 02:19:07,899
a farm dwelling
on farmland,

3532
02:19:07,899 --> 02:19:10,240
meet minimum income
standards in

3533
02:19:10,240 --> 02:19:12,009
no other zoning that we

3534
02:19:12,009 --> 02:19:14,274
know of in the state of
Oregon or elsewhere,

3535
02:19:14,274 --> 02:19:16,239
did they require applicants
that are getting

3536
02:19:16,239 --> 02:19:18,249
any kind of permitting
on, let's say,

3537
02:19:18,249 --> 02:19:20,920
industrial land or
commercial land to have

3538
02:19:20,920 --> 02:19:23,964
to meet some kind of
minimum income standard.

3539
02:19:23,964 --> 02:19:25,239
I think you
would all agree

3540
02:19:25,239 --> 02:19:26,470
that that would
stop people from

3541
02:19:26,470 --> 02:19:28,420
beginning new businesses
just like this will

3542
02:19:28,420 --> 02:19:31,000
stop farmers from
starting new farms.

3543
02:19:31,000 --> 02:19:34,405
We believe that the
proposed tests are aimed

3544
02:19:34,405 --> 02:19:36,864
at securing
more open space

3545
02:19:36,864 --> 02:19:38,665
and prohibiting
rural living.

3546
02:19:38,665 --> 02:19:40,480
We propose a simple test

3547
02:19:40,480 --> 02:19:41,770
and one that we
believe that will

3548
02:19:41,770 --> 02:19:43,660
protect resource
land as well as

3549
02:19:43,660 --> 02:19:44,800
the individual's right to

3550
02:19:44,800 --> 02:19:46,284
live on his own farmland.

3551
02:19:46,284 --> 02:19:48,805
This on the second
page of my testimony,

3552
02:19:48,805 --> 02:19:50,769
our tests would
be a dwelling

3553
02:19:50,769 --> 02:19:52,329
may be considered
customarily

3554
02:19:52,329 --> 02:19:54,910
provided in conjunction
with farm use if

3555
02:19:54,910 --> 02:19:56,950
the subject tract is
currently employed for

3556
02:19:56,950 --> 02:19:59,779
farm use as
defined in RS 2.5,

3557
02:19:59,779 --> 02:20:01,989
0.203, be the applicant

3558
02:20:01,989 --> 02:20:03,040
mitigates the laws and

3559
02:20:03,040 --> 02:20:04,390
agricultural production on

3560
02:20:04,390 --> 02:20:06,399
the land taken
out of production

3561
02:20:06,399 --> 02:20:09,205
by the actual footprint
of the dwelling.

3562
02:20:09,205 --> 02:20:10,629
And they could do
more intensive

3563
02:20:10,629 --> 02:20:11,770
uses on the rest of

3564
02:20:11,770 --> 02:20:13,180
the farmland or foreign

3565
02:20:13,180 --> 02:20:15,144
something that isn't
currently being farmed.

3566
02:20:15,144 --> 02:20:16,539
And finally, the use meets

3567
02:20:16,539 --> 02:20:19,780
the standard AND
OR as 2.5, 0.296,

3568
02:20:19,780 --> 02:20:22,000
so that the dwelling or

3569
02:20:22,000 --> 02:20:23,065
the rural living doesn't

3570
02:20:23,065 --> 02:20:25,314
interfere with
farming practices.

3571
02:20:25,314 --> 02:20:27,230
Thank you.

3572
02:20:27,900 --> 02:20:30,379
Question.

3573
02:20:31,680 --> 02:20:36,490
One, gun, grief. When have

3574
02:20:36,490 --> 02:20:39,085
you looked at Mr.
Carnegie's proposal?

3575
02:20:39,085 --> 02:20:41,409
The one that has
you have to have

3576
02:20:41,409 --> 02:20:42,910
the tin 40th income

3577
02:20:42,910 --> 02:20:44,485
and get that.
Yes, we have.

3578
02:20:44,485 --> 02:20:45,324
Have you looked at that?

3579
02:20:45,324 --> 02:20:46,435
You don't like
that either?

3580
02:20:46,435 --> 02:20:48,519
Well, we still believe
that as I said,

3581
02:20:48,519 --> 02:20:49,915
that no other zoning

3582
02:20:49,915 --> 02:20:51,429
permitting and
any other kind of

3583
02:20:51,429 --> 02:20:52,960
zoning requires applicants

3584
02:20:52,960 --> 02:20:54,699
meet minimum
income standards.

3585
02:20:54,699 --> 02:20:56,290
We think it's
intrusive and so

3586
02:20:56,290 --> 02:20:58,969
we wouldn't support
that one either.

3587
02:21:01,320 --> 02:21:03,474
That question.

3588
02:21:03,474 --> 02:21:05,289
I finished
staff, didn't I?

3589
02:21:05,289 --> 02:21:05,710
Yeah.

3590
02:21:05,710 --> 02:21:07,045
That's beautiful.

3591
02:21:07,045 --> 02:21:09,170
Thank You.

3592
02:21:09,630 --> 02:21:18,949
Can barely Jacobson's
at all. Okay.

3593
02:21:19,320 --> 02:21:20,619
Okay.

3594
02:21:20,619 --> 02:21:22,929
So coming because
your name

3595
02:21:22,929 --> 02:21:23,530
is in there twice.

3596
02:21:23,530 --> 02:21:24,009
I was going to tell you

3597
02:21:24,009 --> 02:21:25,150
you can't testify twice,

3598
02:21:25,150 --> 02:21:27,310
but I see what
you're doing here.

3599
02:21:27,310 --> 02:21:29,650
So for three
of you are one

3600
02:21:29,650 --> 02:21:33,859
then three of us
are representing.

3601
02:21:34,590 --> 02:21:36,850
Good afternoon,
Mr. Chairman,

3602
02:21:36,850 --> 02:21:38,530
Commissioners staff.

3603
02:21:38,530 --> 02:21:43,794
The letter before you
was typed up 130-2.

3604
02:21:43,794 --> 02:21:45,444
I apologize for any typos

3605
02:21:45,444 --> 02:21:46,539
and things were
moving a little

3606
02:21:46,539 --> 02:21:48,549
quickly this morning
trying to get

3607
02:21:48,549 --> 02:21:51,099
14 counties to come

3608
02:21:51,099 --> 02:21:52,509
to some sort of
an agreement.

3609
02:21:52,509 --> 02:21:54,670
How we had five
eastern counties,

3610
02:21:54,670 --> 02:21:56,695
five Willamette
Valley counties,

3611
02:21:56,695 --> 02:21:57,940
to coastal counties, and

3612
02:21:57,940 --> 02:21:59,320
one Southern
Oregon County.

3613
02:21:59,320 --> 02:21:59,890
It represents

3614
02:21:59,890 --> 02:22:01,464
a tremendous amount
of diversity.

3615
02:22:01,464 --> 02:22:02,260
And we're, we're
looking at

3616
02:22:02,260 --> 02:22:03,144
these kind of criteria

3617
02:22:03,144 --> 02:22:04,855
that are going to
affect all of us.

3618
02:22:04,855 --> 02:22:06,220
It took some wrangling to

3619
02:22:06,220 --> 02:22:08,319
get what we have
here on the paper.

3620
02:22:08,319 --> 02:22:10,090
We're pleased that
we're looking at

3621
02:22:10,090 --> 02:22:12,145
farmed wine criteria
at this point.

3622
02:22:12,145 --> 02:22:14,004
I guess let me backup
for one moment.

3623
02:22:14,004 --> 02:22:14,800
I'm the president of

3624
02:22:14,800 --> 02:22:16,450
the plane Writers
Association

3625
02:22:16,450 --> 02:22:17,754
and my colleagues

3626
02:22:17,754 --> 02:22:19,779
arched Lachlan
Russ knee bone.

3627
02:22:19,779 --> 02:22:21,610
We're pleased to
be at this point,

3628
02:22:21,610 --> 02:22:22,869
we've asked for years for

3629
02:22:22,869 --> 02:22:24,520
farmed going criteria
that are clear and

3630
02:22:24,520 --> 02:22:27,309
objective and that
provide a capability

3631
02:22:27,309 --> 02:22:29,109
tests to allow new farmers

3632
02:22:29,109 --> 02:22:30,369
to establish a
form dwelling.

3633
02:22:30,369 --> 02:22:31,749
So we're pleased
to be here.

3634
02:22:31,749 --> 02:22:33,939
The purpose of this
memo is to provide

3635
02:22:33,939 --> 02:22:37,300
some opportunities
for you to

3636
02:22:37,300 --> 02:22:39,220
review that may you

3637
02:22:39,220 --> 02:22:40,975
may want to entertain
for changes.

3638
02:22:40,975 --> 02:22:43,014
The timeframe currently
is too short.

3639
02:22:43,014 --> 02:22:45,129
We all received her
information on Monday.

3640
02:22:45,129 --> 02:22:46,090
We don't feel
like we've had

3641
02:22:46,090 --> 02:22:47,604
a thorough time
for review.

3642
02:22:47,604 --> 02:22:48,669
As I mentioned, we had

3643
02:22:48,669 --> 02:22:50,020
14 counties trying to come

3644
02:22:50,020 --> 02:22:54,084
up some clear options
for you to work with.

3645
02:22:54,084 --> 02:22:56,199
And we feel that
these four days

3646
02:22:56,199 --> 02:22:58,389
have been too tight.

3647
02:22:58,389 --> 02:22:59,860
On test one.

3648
02:22:59,860 --> 02:23:01,390
There's a very strong
sentiment that

3649
02:23:01,390 --> 02:23:02,770
the test needs
to be amended to

3650
02:23:02,770 --> 02:23:04,029
allow jurisdictions
to vary

3651
02:23:04,029 --> 02:23:05,725
from the parcel
size standard,

3652
02:23:05,725 --> 02:23:07,360
allowing jurisdictions
to propose

3653
02:23:07,360 --> 02:23:08,409
a standard for farmed

3654
02:23:08,409 --> 02:23:11,095
willing using clear and
objective criteria.

3655
02:23:11,095 --> 02:23:12,220
This would recognize

3656
02:23:12,220 --> 02:23:13,420
the regional differences

3657
02:23:13,420 --> 02:23:15,369
that were represented,

3658
02:23:15,369 --> 02:23:17,155
particularly in
the room today.

3659
02:23:17,155 --> 02:23:18,999
We also plot the intent to

3660
02:23:18,999 --> 02:23:20,589
create simple,
clear criteria,

3661
02:23:20,589 --> 02:23:22,360
how he believed
that the criteria

3662
02:23:22,360 --> 02:23:23,529
needs to be
consistent with

3663
02:23:23,529 --> 02:23:25,179
the current
statute primarily

3664
02:23:25,179 --> 02:23:27,295
ORS to 500s 780,

3665
02:23:27,295 --> 02:23:28,890
which specifies the 81,

3666
02:23:28,890 --> 02:23:30,609
60 acre minimum lot

3667
02:23:30,609 --> 02:23:32,995
size for agricultural
land divisions.

3668
02:23:32,995 --> 02:23:36,730
Test two, we acknowledged
that it's complex,

3669
02:23:36,730 --> 02:23:39,760
yet it does provide
for the opportunity

3670
02:23:39,760 --> 02:23:41,650
for local jurisdiction
addictions

3671
02:23:41,650 --> 02:23:43,209
to look at local
circumstances.

3672
02:23:43,209 --> 02:23:45,655
And we applaud
that. We recommend

3673
02:23:45,655 --> 02:23:47,515
the three
following points.

3674
02:23:47,515 --> 02:23:50,245
When there is more than
one indicator crop,

3675
02:23:50,245 --> 02:23:51,999
use two or three

3676
02:23:51,999 --> 02:23:54,804
for both irrigated
and non irrigated.

3677
02:23:54,804 --> 02:23:57,099
This balances the
equation and is not skew

3678
02:23:57,099 --> 02:23:59,814
the gross income data to

3679
02:23:59,814 --> 02:24:01,240
the study area
be a minimum of

3680
02:24:01,240 --> 02:24:03,250
one half-mile
rather than a mile.

3681
02:24:03,250 --> 02:24:04,855
Have that the minimum.

3682
02:24:04,855 --> 02:24:06,430
This allows her
jurisdiction to

3683
02:24:06,430 --> 02:24:07,480
demonstrate what is

3684
02:24:07,480 --> 02:24:08,814
an appropriate study area,

3685
02:24:08,814 --> 02:24:10,060
allowing for the use of

3686
02:24:10,060 --> 02:24:13,045
a larger study area
if practicable.

3687
02:24:13,045 --> 02:24:16,555
And three, there was
considerable discussion

3688
02:24:16,555 --> 02:24:19,030
to delete one of test too.

3689
02:24:19,030 --> 02:24:20,694
Strong feelings
were voiced

3690
02:24:20,694 --> 02:24:22,180
that we should not

3691
02:24:22,180 --> 02:24:23,830
evaluate for compliance of

3692
02:24:23,830 --> 02:24:26,424
both tracks size and
production capability,

3693
02:24:26,424 --> 02:24:27,850
that the track
size test be

3694
02:24:27,850 --> 02:24:30,534
deleted as refers
to median size.

3695
02:24:30,534 --> 02:24:32,140
And we asked
you to closely

3696
02:24:32,140 --> 02:24:33,159
evaluate that again,

3697
02:24:33,159 --> 02:24:34,479
we were really
split on that,

3698
02:24:34,479 --> 02:24:35,680
but there was a
lot of concern

3699
02:24:35,680 --> 02:24:37,389
and there was a
lot of discussion.

3700
02:24:37,389 --> 02:24:39,129
On test three.

3701
02:24:39,129 --> 02:24:40,359
We recommend
that you change

3702
02:24:40,359 --> 02:24:42,639
the income thresholds
for 20,000 for

3703
02:24:42,639 --> 02:24:44,739
non high-value lands and

3704
02:24:44,739 --> 02:24:47,349
40,000 gross
annual income.

3705
02:24:47,349 --> 02:24:49,419
And I'm just
about through for

3706
02:24:49,419 --> 02:24:51,040
high-value or
the mid point of

3707
02:24:51,040 --> 02:24:53,425
the median for high-value.

3708
02:24:53,425 --> 02:24:56,425
This is consistent with

3709
02:24:56,425 --> 02:24:59,679
the current standards
statutes and

3710
02:24:59,679 --> 02:25:02,110
is consistent with
the adjustment

3711
02:25:02,110 --> 02:25:04,185
that the legislature
made for farm,

3712
02:25:04,185 --> 02:25:05,649
dwellings and
marginal lands.

3713
02:25:05,649 --> 02:25:08,050
There's one item I
failed to get in here,

3714
02:25:08,050 --> 02:25:10,149
and that was we
felt strongly about

3715
02:25:10,149 --> 02:25:13,750
deleting one sub
d of tests three,

3716
02:25:13,750 --> 02:25:15,970
we believe that
we're managing land,

3717
02:25:15,970 --> 02:25:18,160
we're not managing people.

3718
02:25:18,160 --> 02:25:20,829
On finally or second to

3719
02:25:20,829 --> 02:25:23,799
find the deal
CD staff report

3720
02:25:23,799 --> 02:25:25,869
suggests a dwelling be
temporary under test

3721
02:25:25,869 --> 02:25:27,460
1.2 and we are strongly

3722
02:25:27,460 --> 02:25:29,379
post with temporary
dwelling requirement.

3723
02:25:29,379 --> 02:25:30,100
And I think
you've heard from

3724
02:25:30,100 --> 02:25:31,195
many of the
other counties,

3725
02:25:31,195 --> 02:25:33,400
it's an administrative
nightmare.

3726
02:25:33,400 --> 02:25:35,830
And lastly, the rules
as proposed do not

3727
02:25:35,830 --> 02:25:37,044
allow for additional

3728
02:25:37,044 --> 02:25:38,500
accessory farmed
dwellings.

3729
02:25:38,500 --> 02:25:39,910
And we asked you to

3730
02:25:39,910 --> 02:25:42,860
clarify this
before adoption.

3731
02:25:42,900 --> 02:25:45,260
Okay.

3732
02:25:46,260 --> 02:25:47,530
Mr.

3733
02:25:47,530 --> 02:25:49,074
Chairman, members
of the commission.

3734
02:25:49,074 --> 02:25:52,060
For the record, my name
is Art Slack and I'm

3735
02:25:52,060 --> 02:25:53,544
here primarily today is

3736
02:25:53,544 --> 02:25:55,224
Polk County
Planning Director.

3737
02:25:55,224 --> 02:25:57,639
I would note that I

3738
02:25:57,639 --> 02:25:59,560
did facts out to the
land use committee of

3739
02:25:59,560 --> 02:26:05,574
AOC Material to ask
for their comments.

3740
02:26:05,574 --> 02:26:07,150
I would note for

3741
02:26:07,150 --> 02:26:08,830
your consideration that I

3742
02:26:08,830 --> 02:26:10,419
did not receive one fax

3743
02:26:10,419 --> 02:26:12,565
back from one
county commissioner

3744
02:26:12,565 --> 02:26:15,834
or judge support for

3745
02:26:15,834 --> 02:26:17,440
either the Technical

3746
02:26:17,440 --> 02:26:19,225
Advisory Committee
recommendations

3747
02:26:19,225 --> 02:26:20,440
as drafted or

3748
02:26:20,440 --> 02:26:22,719
the staff and also

3749
02:26:22,719 --> 02:26:24,190
the staff recommendation

3750
02:26:24,190 --> 02:26:26,749
for the temporary
dwellings.

3751
02:26:28,680 --> 02:26:31,674
As far as Polk
Counties concerned,

3752
02:26:31,674 --> 02:26:32,979
as you know the
last time I

3753
02:26:32,979 --> 02:26:34,990
testified at your
last meeting,

3754
02:26:34,990 --> 02:26:37,465
Polk County has a
tremendous amount

3755
02:26:37,465 --> 02:26:39,564
of high-value farmland.

3756
02:26:39,564 --> 02:26:42,310
We are concerned since

3757
02:26:42,310 --> 02:26:44,785
for the last, I will say,

3758
02:26:44,785 --> 02:26:46,599
number of years
we've had a

3759
02:26:46,599 --> 02:26:52,075
$40,000 income
capability test

3760
02:26:52,075 --> 02:26:54,489
in REF few districts.

3761
02:26:54,489 --> 02:26:58,030
And in that basically
has been justified on

3762
02:26:58,030 --> 02:27:01,645
a farm commercial
farms study

3763
02:27:01,645 --> 02:27:05,589
showing that on 80
acres that you could

3764
02:27:05,589 --> 02:27:10,690
justify that $40,000
threshold could be met.

3765
02:27:10,690 --> 02:27:17,184
Taking that to
$80,000 will make

3766
02:27:17,184 --> 02:27:20,140
a significant change in

3767
02:27:20,140 --> 02:27:24,640
how farmland has been
managed in Polk County.

3768
02:27:24,640 --> 02:27:26,110
And I would also
indicate that

3769
02:27:26,110 --> 02:27:28,165
the legislature
has established

3770
02:27:28,165 --> 02:27:30,400
near the acre
minimum lot size.

3771
02:27:30,400 --> 02:27:33,399
All those lots that have
been created it with

3772
02:27:33,399 --> 02:27:36,340
80 acre minimum lot size

3773
02:27:36,340 --> 02:27:38,004
under the current
rules at this point,

3774
02:27:38,004 --> 02:27:40,330
will not be able to
qualify for a dwelling.

3775
02:27:40,330 --> 02:27:43,915
I would urge you to delete

3776
02:27:43,915 --> 02:27:45,999
any references to
temporary dwellings

3777
02:27:45,999 --> 02:27:47,815
is recommended
by the staff.

3778
02:27:47,815 --> 02:27:50,110
My experience as
a planner is that

3779
02:27:50,110 --> 02:27:52,734
that is as my associate,

3780
02:27:52,734 --> 02:27:54,250
Jacobson, who said is

3781
02:27:54,250 --> 02:27:56,335
an administrative
nightmare,

3782
02:27:56,335 --> 02:27:58,089
those people that make

3783
02:27:58,089 --> 02:28:01,825
those investments
should not be faced

3784
02:28:01,825 --> 02:28:03,925
with the choice of placing

3785
02:28:03,925 --> 02:28:06,849
a temporary dwelling on
a piece of property.

3786
02:28:06,849 --> 02:28:09,534
I believe that under the
capability test with

3787
02:28:09,534 --> 02:28:12,879
sufficient investment
on the ground,

3788
02:28:12,879 --> 02:28:14,350
which will be
required before

3789
02:28:14,350 --> 02:28:16,885
the building
permit is issued,

3790
02:28:16,885 --> 02:28:19,224
that those people
should be able to build

3791
02:28:19,224 --> 02:28:21,009
a conventional stick built

3792
02:28:21,009 --> 02:28:22,659
house if that's
their choice.

3793
02:28:22,659 --> 02:28:24,250
I'd be happy to answer

3794
02:28:24,250 --> 02:28:26,420
any questions if
you have any.

3795
02:28:27,510 --> 02:28:30,325
Tick off. Save all
of our questions.

3796
02:28:30,325 --> 02:28:32,739
Once you go ahead,
Ross remembers

3797
02:28:32,739 --> 02:28:34,000
the commission recipe von,

3798
02:28:34,000 --> 02:28:36,190
Chief Planner for
Marion County.

3799
02:28:36,190 --> 02:28:38,349
I'm here to lend

3800
02:28:38,349 --> 02:28:39,520
support to the
Kennedy planning

3801
02:28:39,520 --> 02:28:41,244
director's position.

3802
02:28:41,244 --> 02:28:44,079
We're on to second
arts comment

3803
02:28:44,079 --> 02:28:45,459
about the
temporary dwelling

3804
02:28:45,459 --> 02:28:47,469
aspect being a problem.

3805
02:28:47,469 --> 02:28:49,329
I'm here to answer

3806
02:28:49,329 --> 02:28:50,889
any questions you
might have on

3807
02:28:50,889 --> 02:28:53,620
our recommendation about
the ability to use

3808
02:28:53,620 --> 02:28:55,180
a one-half mile radius

3809
02:28:55,180 --> 02:28:57,339
rather than 1
mi is proposed.

3810
02:28:57,339 --> 02:28:59,680
Marion County has
some experience

3811
02:28:59,680 --> 02:29:00,999
with administering

3812
02:29:00,999 --> 02:29:03,429
a one-half mile radius in

3813
02:29:03,429 --> 02:29:06,714
farmland with regard
to farm dwellings?

3814
02:29:06,714 --> 02:29:09,310
That ready to respond

3815
02:29:09,310 --> 02:29:13,869
to questions?
Questions, anybody?

3816
02:29:13,869 --> 02:29:15,789
Have you all
talked about cliff

3817
02:29:15,789 --> 02:29:18,859
Carnegie's concept?

3818
02:29:20,040 --> 02:29:23,425
There was some discussion.

3819
02:29:23,425 --> 02:29:25,359
It primarily
revolve around

3820
02:29:25,359 --> 02:29:27,550
the fact that it's not

3821
02:29:27,550 --> 02:29:30,070
entirely reasonable
because many farms

3822
02:29:30,070 --> 02:29:31,600
can be bought outright.

3823
02:29:31,600 --> 02:29:35,109
So there is no more
mortgage provision that

3824
02:29:35,109 --> 02:29:37,585
would be able
to be the nexus

3825
02:29:37,585 --> 02:29:39,280
to for that test.

3826
02:29:39,280 --> 02:29:40,839
But we didn't
spend a lot of

3827
02:29:40,839 --> 02:29:42,100
time discussing it other

3828
02:29:42,100 --> 02:29:44,050
than we discussed the TRC

3829
02:29:44,050 --> 02:29:46,490
and the staff's
recommendations.

3830
02:29:46,920 --> 02:29:50,319
Come again. The farm

3831
02:29:50,319 --> 02:29:53,079
could be bought and
doesn't meet the Nexus.

3832
02:29:53,079 --> 02:29:55,059
Know the way the way as I

3833
02:29:55,059 --> 02:29:57,039
understand it
that it is put

3834
02:29:57,039 --> 02:29:58,869
together is that a
loan officer would

3835
02:29:58,869 --> 02:30:00,639
demonstrate that
an individual

3836
02:30:00,639 --> 02:30:01,750
is proposing to
have a dwelling,

3837
02:30:01,750 --> 02:30:03,324
that the income,

3838
02:30:03,324 --> 02:30:05,544
the gross sales
off of there,

3839
02:30:05,544 --> 02:30:08,170
agricultural
crops, whatever,

3840
02:30:08,170 --> 02:30:10,195
could meet the
mortgage requirements

3841
02:30:10,195 --> 02:30:11,409
of the proposed dwelling.

3842
02:30:11,409 --> 02:30:12,039
Well, what if you

3843
02:30:12,039 --> 02:30:13,045
don't have mortgage
requirements?

3844
02:30:13,045 --> 02:30:14,454
What if you've purchased

3845
02:30:14,454 --> 02:30:15,729
the entire parcel
and are going

3846
02:30:15,729 --> 02:30:17,079
to build a home outright,

3847
02:30:17,079 --> 02:30:21,099
as we witnessed with
many individuals

3848
02:30:21,099 --> 02:30:21,789
who were moving up from

3849
02:30:21,789 --> 02:30:23,050
California or
you already have

3850
02:30:23,050 --> 02:30:23,799
the cash and you

3851
02:30:23,799 --> 02:30:25,284
don't need a
mortgage, right?

3852
02:30:25,284 --> 02:30:28,014
There's no nexus then
to make the test work.

3853
02:30:28,014 --> 02:30:30,340
But I think the
intent of the test

3854
02:30:30,340 --> 02:30:31,539
is that somebody who

3855
02:30:31,539 --> 02:30:33,145
is proposing to
build the house.

3856
02:30:33,145 --> 02:30:34,569
So there is

3857
02:30:34,569 --> 02:30:36,100
a house that they would
be running through

3858
02:30:36,100 --> 02:30:37,809
the formula and it
really is academic

3859
02:30:37,809 --> 02:30:38,469
whether the person is

3860
02:30:38,469 --> 02:30:40,540
actually applying
for mortgage.

3861
02:30:40,540 --> 02:30:43,270
You can still run
the test even though

3862
02:30:43,270 --> 02:30:46,015
the person pays cash
from the house.

3863
02:30:46,015 --> 02:30:48,430
It just says that you
have the capability

3864
02:30:48,430 --> 02:30:50,600
to pay off a mortgage.

3865
02:30:51,750 --> 02:30:53,649
I have a comment.

3866
02:30:53,649 --> 02:30:53,964
Yeah.

3867
02:30:53,964 --> 02:30:55,600
Did you look at
the advantages

3868
02:30:55,600 --> 02:30:56,650
of having a dose all

3869
02:30:56,650 --> 02:30:57,940
at the banker is
the gatekeeper

3870
02:30:57,940 --> 02:31:00,289
and rather than
you at the desk,

3871
02:31:00,540 --> 02:31:03,370
seems to me that
you've given off and

3872
02:31:03,370 --> 02:31:03,820
they've been one of

3873
02:31:03,820 --> 02:31:05,439
the most difficult
things that you've got.

3874
02:31:05,439 --> 02:31:06,804
There were
discussions that

3875
02:31:06,804 --> 02:31:07,945
bankers don't know

3876
02:31:07,945 --> 02:31:09,550
Planning hand
bankers don't

3877
02:31:09,550 --> 02:31:11,289
know farming
their bankers.

3878
02:31:11,289 --> 02:31:13,160
But they know what they're
going to loan out.

3879
02:31:13,160 --> 02:31:14,304
How much of mortgages,

3880
02:31:14,304 --> 02:31:15,969
But yeah, they
do no money.

3881
02:31:15,969 --> 02:31:17,589
Did I hear you
say that bankers

3882
02:31:17,589 --> 02:31:19,074
don't know, farming.

3883
02:31:19,074 --> 02:31:20,170
Bankers aren't

3884
02:31:20,170 --> 02:31:21,880
farmers and they're
not planners.

3885
02:31:21,880 --> 02:31:24,835
And so planters aren't
farmers either?

3886
02:31:24,835 --> 02:31:26,829
I wouldn't say
that. I know a lot

3887
02:31:26,829 --> 02:31:27,985
of planters who
are farmers.

3888
02:31:27,985 --> 02:31:29,300
I'm not gonna get
a discussion.

3889
02:31:29,300 --> 02:31:31,254
A lot of bank. Let me,

3890
02:31:31,254 --> 02:31:33,175
let me just tell you
that anybody that makes

3891
02:31:33,175 --> 02:31:36,160
agricultural loans
has pretty good idea

3892
02:31:36,160 --> 02:31:38,425
of what goes
on in farming.

3893
02:31:38,425 --> 02:31:41,125
I know that perfect.

3894
02:31:41,125 --> 02:31:43,720
True. Other questions.

3895
02:31:43,720 --> 02:31:44,889
One more question.

3896
02:31:44,889 --> 02:31:46,150
What was your
experience in

3897
02:31:46,150 --> 02:31:47,979
Marion County with the

3898
02:31:47,979 --> 02:31:50,450
half-mile radius smile.

3899
02:31:51,240 --> 02:31:54,340
Mr. Wiley. Marion
County has

3900
02:31:54,340 --> 02:31:57,264
not had a designated
minimum lot size.

3901
02:31:57,264 --> 02:31:59,439
And at the time we

3902
02:31:59,439 --> 02:32:00,639
came in for
acknowledgement

3903
02:32:00,639 --> 02:32:02,034
in the early '80s,

3904
02:32:02,034 --> 02:32:04,540
we proposed a
half-mile analysis

3905
02:32:04,540 --> 02:32:06,645
to determine the
minimum lot size.

3906
02:32:06,645 --> 02:32:08,560
The commission
staff were very

3907
02:32:08,560 --> 02:32:10,270
concerned because
as I recall,

3908
02:32:10,270 --> 02:32:11,320
there had been
a case done in

3909
02:32:11,320 --> 02:32:12,909
Benton County
and it had been

3910
02:32:12,909 --> 02:32:14,260
determined there
that they needed to

3911
02:32:14,260 --> 02:32:15,895
use a 1 mi radius.

3912
02:32:15,895 --> 02:32:17,770
We offered to go
back and we did

3913
02:32:17,770 --> 02:32:19,165
some random sampling of

3914
02:32:19,165 --> 02:32:21,745
different areas
in our EF zone

3915
02:32:21,745 --> 02:32:23,574
and did an assessment

3916
02:32:23,574 --> 02:32:24,909
of how much
difference there

3917
02:32:24,909 --> 02:32:26,980
we're in parcel sizes

3918
02:32:26,980 --> 02:32:28,405
and farm characteristics,

3919
02:32:28,405 --> 02:32:30,010
whether you base
the analysis on

3920
02:32:30,010 --> 02:32:32,260
a half-mile radius
or a 1 mi radius.

3921
02:32:32,260 --> 02:32:33,549
And for the
amount of extra

3922
02:32:33,549 --> 02:32:34,810
work that was involved,

3923
02:32:34,810 --> 02:32:37,164
the differences
were insignificant.

3924
02:32:37,164 --> 02:32:40,239
And on that basis, the
Commission agreed to

3925
02:32:40,239 --> 02:32:41,650
and acknowledged
our provision

3926
02:32:41,650 --> 02:32:43,540
using a one-half
mile radius.

3927
02:32:43,540 --> 02:32:45,414
It was our feeling that

3928
02:32:45,414 --> 02:32:47,559
some of the county
planners have said, hey,

3929
02:32:47,559 --> 02:32:48,670
sometimes you want to have

3930
02:32:48,670 --> 02:32:50,709
a mile because that brings

3931
02:32:50,709 --> 02:32:52,240
in more and maybe

3932
02:32:52,240 --> 02:32:54,280
your county would want
to do it that way.

3933
02:32:54,280 --> 02:32:55,990
I think counties
should have

3934
02:32:55,990 --> 02:32:58,495
the option of using a
half a mile or a mile,

3935
02:32:58,495 --> 02:32:59,230
and that's what we

3936
02:32:59,230 --> 02:33:01,490
would recommend
you consider.

3937
02:33:02,610 --> 02:33:05,784
Chair, the
three-minute format

3938
02:33:05,784 --> 02:33:08,410
hasn't really been
conducive to going

3939
02:33:08,410 --> 02:33:10,900
into much detail
about what you

3940
02:33:10,900 --> 02:33:12,879
folks who operate at

3941
02:33:12,879 --> 02:33:14,484
where the tire
meets the road,

3942
02:33:14,484 --> 02:33:16,450
feel it would be
like to implement

3943
02:33:16,450 --> 02:33:18,624
the temporary
dwelling provision.

3944
02:33:18,624 --> 02:33:21,415
You want to give

3945
02:33:21,415 --> 02:33:24,849
some additional response
on what you folks

3946
02:33:24,849 --> 02:33:27,820
representing 36
counties that

3947
02:33:27,820 --> 02:33:29,559
do the planning at
the local level

3948
02:33:29,559 --> 02:33:31,659
where the tire
meets the road,

3949
02:33:31,659 --> 02:33:33,759
how you feel that that

3950
02:33:33,759 --> 02:33:35,319
temporary dwelling
would be met

3951
02:33:35,319 --> 02:33:39,350
and how that would
work or not work.

3952
02:33:39,600 --> 02:33:41,995
How I mean,
there were many

3953
02:33:41,995 --> 02:33:43,359
war stories this
morning going

3954
02:33:43,359 --> 02:33:44,620
around and they
were all very

3955
02:33:44,620 --> 02:33:46,329
unanimous that
temporary dwellings,

3956
02:33:46,329 --> 02:33:47,680
we've all been exposed

3957
02:33:47,680 --> 02:33:48,910
to them to some degree or

3958
02:33:48,910 --> 02:33:50,469
another and they are

3959
02:33:50,469 --> 02:33:51,700
an administrative
nightmare.

3960
02:33:51,700 --> 02:33:52,990
It becomes enforcement.

3961
02:33:52,990 --> 02:33:54,174
That's the bottom end

3962
02:33:54,174 --> 02:33:55,750
of our responsibilities.

3963
02:33:55,750 --> 02:33:57,265
Therefore, it
doesn't happen.

3964
02:33:57,265 --> 02:34:00,189
So those temporary
dwellings go unchecked.

3965
02:34:00,189 --> 02:34:02,409
It's difficult to get
them out in the field.

3966
02:34:02,409 --> 02:34:03,099
One of the things
that we do

3967
02:34:03,099 --> 02:34:04,209
in Moscow County is

3968
02:34:04,209 --> 02:34:06,220
we try and limit them to

3969
02:34:06,220 --> 02:34:08,874
a one-year with a
one-year extension

3970
02:34:08,874 --> 02:34:10,959
so that they don't
get out of hand.

3971
02:34:10,959 --> 02:34:12,460
But quite frankly, we have

3972
02:34:12,460 --> 02:34:14,890
not reviewed
them since 1986.

3973
02:34:14,890 --> 02:34:17,829
And a manufactured home

3974
02:34:17,829 --> 02:34:19,600
is not exactly a
mobile home anymore.

3975
02:34:19,600 --> 02:34:20,680
And once they're placed,

3976
02:34:20,680 --> 02:34:21,550
there are a lot
more permanent

3977
02:34:21,550 --> 02:34:22,705
than you might think.

3978
02:34:22,705 --> 02:34:24,340
That's one
perspective and I

3979
02:34:24,340 --> 02:34:25,869
would leave it to art and

3980
02:34:25,869 --> 02:34:30,100
Russ to add to
administer troop.

3981
02:34:30,100 --> 02:34:33,580
Let me answer your
question in two parts.

3982
02:34:33,580 --> 02:34:35,409
First, I would not
recommend to my Board

3983
02:34:35,409 --> 02:34:37,299
of County
Commissioners that we

3984
02:34:37,299 --> 02:34:38,500
have a provision for

3985
02:34:38,500 --> 02:34:40,690
temporary foreign
dwellings if the rule is

3986
02:34:40,690 --> 02:34:42,340
provided it because I

3987
02:34:42,340 --> 02:34:44,799
believe that from a
management standpoint,

3988
02:34:44,799 --> 02:34:46,120
the administrative
standpoint

3989
02:34:46,120 --> 02:34:47,215
at the local level,

3990
02:34:47,215 --> 02:34:50,094
that this is a
can of worms.

3991
02:34:50,094 --> 02:34:51,819
It's kinda like
deed restrictions

3992
02:34:51,819 --> 02:34:52,330
and a whole bunch of

3993
02:34:52,330 --> 02:34:53,170
stuff you can get into

3994
02:34:53,170 --> 02:34:54,700
that It's not manageable,

3995
02:34:54,700 --> 02:34:56,890
not practical bubble and

3996
02:34:56,890 --> 02:34:59,209
manageable at
the local level.

3997
02:35:00,180 --> 02:35:02,769
If we did, if
the board still

3998
02:35:02,769 --> 02:35:05,840
wanted to go
forward with that,

3999
02:35:06,950 --> 02:35:09,909
we would do it we
could to implement it.

4000
02:35:09,909 --> 02:35:15,399
But it is just
my experience

4001
02:35:15,399 --> 02:35:17,500
that it is not
that manageable.

4002
02:35:17,500 --> 02:35:19,884
You just to try and
get them to remove,

4003
02:35:19,884 --> 02:35:21,879
even if we have bonds and

4004
02:35:21,879 --> 02:35:24,250
all these kinds of
things that issue,

4005
02:35:24,250 --> 02:35:27,100
I think is really
the dwelling

4006
02:35:27,100 --> 02:35:28,495
on the farmland
and I think

4007
02:35:28,495 --> 02:35:30,130
test one with the acreage,

4008
02:35:30,130 --> 02:35:31,824
whatever that acreage is

4009
02:35:31,824 --> 02:35:33,849
and the commitment
that it's in farm use,

4010
02:35:33,849 --> 02:35:35,289
if we're going to
use that and that

4011
02:35:35,289 --> 02:35:36,819
acreage is extremely high,

4012
02:35:36,819 --> 02:35:38,244
which has been
recommended,

4013
02:35:38,244 --> 02:35:39,549
that I don't believe

4014
02:35:39,549 --> 02:35:41,199
that the income shouldn't

4015
02:35:41,199 --> 02:35:44,620
necessarily be a nexus
for that acreage size.

4016
02:35:44,620 --> 02:35:47,049
And on test two

4017
02:35:47,049 --> 02:35:49,854
where you're dealing
with capability.

4018
02:35:49,854 --> 02:35:52,299
Back in when we
went through

4019
02:35:52,299 --> 02:35:56,530
the initial discussions on

4020
02:35:56,530 --> 02:35:57,850
the farm dwelling criteria

4021
02:35:57,850 --> 02:35:59,199
when the administrative
rules were

4022
02:35:59,199 --> 02:36:00,760
adopted by this commission

4023
02:36:00,760 --> 02:36:03,009
in December of 1992,

4024
02:36:03,009 --> 02:36:04,089
there was a lot
of discussion.

4025
02:36:04,089 --> 02:36:05,980
We were talking
about capabilities.

4026
02:36:05,980 --> 02:36:08,349
I can recall
discussions between

4027
02:36:08,349 --> 02:36:10,269
the county
planning directors

4028
02:36:10,269 --> 02:36:11,950
and Commissioner

4029
02:36:11,950 --> 02:36:14,665
Macpherson talking
about well,

4030
02:36:14,665 --> 02:36:16,659
capability would be in

4031
02:36:16,659 --> 02:36:18,564
I'd feel comfortable
with capability if

4032
02:36:18,564 --> 02:36:22,855
there was a little
bit more safe guard,

4033
02:36:22,855 --> 02:36:25,600
a little bit
more commitment

4034
02:36:25,600 --> 02:36:27,234
in terms of the act,

4035
02:36:27,234 --> 02:36:31,030
the improvements in
the farm activity

4036
02:36:31,030 --> 02:36:35,274
where the person had
no no track record,

4037
02:36:35,274 --> 02:36:37,479
in other words, where
you had not had

4038
02:36:37,479 --> 02:36:38,799
the farm income
that you could

4039
02:36:38,799 --> 02:36:40,915
justify over two
or three years.

4040
02:36:40,915 --> 02:36:42,400
When we start,
when we've taken

4041
02:36:42,400 --> 02:36:43,525
that capability tests.

4042
02:36:43,525 --> 02:36:47,155
Now we've gone not to
looking at track size.

4043
02:36:47,155 --> 02:36:49,029
We're looking at
the investment.

4044
02:36:49,029 --> 02:36:52,765
I believe that the
initial investment,

4045
02:36:52,765 --> 02:36:55,059
if you require that at

4046
02:36:55,059 --> 02:36:58,284
a higher level than

4047
02:36:58,284 --> 02:37:01,209
the income where you would

4048
02:37:01,209 --> 02:37:03,250
demonstrate a track
record would be

4049
02:37:03,250 --> 02:37:06,819
a sufficient
demonstration of

4050
02:37:06,819 --> 02:37:09,939
a commitment
because that has

4051
02:37:09,939 --> 02:37:11,049
to be there at the time

4052
02:37:11,049 --> 02:37:13,134
the building permit
is issued to meet IT.

4053
02:37:13,134 --> 02:37:14,469
Capability tests.
And I think

4054
02:37:14,469 --> 02:37:16,359
the capability tests could

4055
02:37:16,359 --> 02:37:17,560
be designed or should be

4056
02:37:17,560 --> 02:37:21,234
designed based on
that commitment

4057
02:37:21,234 --> 02:37:25,254
without regard to
attract analysis.

4058
02:37:25,254 --> 02:37:27,744
I'll stop there.

4059
02:37:27,744 --> 02:37:31,149
Did you want each
of you either

4060
02:37:31,149 --> 02:37:32,605
can or maybe does

4061
02:37:32,605 --> 02:37:34,329
already authorized
and your ear,

4062
02:37:34,329 --> 02:37:36,250
if you weren't insist
the location of

4063
02:37:36,250 --> 02:37:38,754
a temporary dwelling
for a hardship.

4064
02:37:38,754 --> 02:37:41,650
I remember when we had
an earlier meeting,

4065
02:37:41,650 --> 02:37:42,790
we talked about
that a little

4066
02:37:42,790 --> 02:37:44,140
bit because our
first draft,

4067
02:37:44,140 --> 02:37:46,735
as you recall, did
not authorize those.

4068
02:37:46,735 --> 02:37:48,850
And you urged to put that

4069
02:37:48,850 --> 02:37:50,110
back in the draft rules

4070
02:37:50,110 --> 02:37:51,504
because it was important.

4071
02:37:51,504 --> 02:37:53,139
So each of you must have

4072
02:37:53,139 --> 02:37:55,479
some experience with
temporary dwellings.

4073
02:37:55,479 --> 02:37:57,490
As matter of fact,
I think I remember

4074
02:37:57,490 --> 02:38:00,805
at least somebody in
that group saying that,

4075
02:38:00,805 --> 02:38:03,085
yes, they commonly do

4076
02:38:03,085 --> 02:38:05,650
authorize temporary
dwellings for hardships.

4077
02:38:05,650 --> 02:38:07,420
They're usually associated

4078
02:38:07,420 --> 02:38:08,905
with a medical hardship.

4079
02:38:08,905 --> 02:38:10,659
And they have
had considerable

4080
02:38:10,659 --> 02:38:12,549
experience in
removing them.

4081
02:38:12,549 --> 02:38:14,439
It hasn't always been easy

4082
02:38:14,439 --> 02:38:17,109
because sometimes
what they find is

4083
02:38:17,109 --> 02:38:19,359
that it isn't a person
with a hardship

4084
02:38:19,359 --> 02:38:20,199
that's in that dwelling

4085
02:38:20,199 --> 02:38:21,685
now, it's somebody else.

4086
02:38:21,685 --> 02:38:24,070
So they've had to take
and to enforce them,

4087
02:38:24,070 --> 02:38:25,720
but they have been able to

4088
02:38:25,720 --> 02:38:27,939
get the temporary
dwelling to be removed.

4089
02:38:27,939 --> 02:38:30,880
What is it about this
temporary dwelling?

4090
02:38:30,880 --> 02:38:33,490
That would be
the nightmare.

4091
02:38:33,490 --> 02:38:35,289
That it makes it
different from

4092
02:38:35,289 --> 02:38:38,119
your experience with
hardship dwellings?

4093
02:38:40,110 --> 02:38:44,920
From my perspective,
ms. Chairman Venter,

4094
02:38:44,920 --> 02:38:46,734
from our perspective,

4095
02:38:46,734 --> 02:38:47,739
there's a lot
of difference

4096
02:38:47,739 --> 02:38:49,764
between a medical hardship

4097
02:38:49,764 --> 02:38:52,135
and temporary dwelling
for a farm use.

4098
02:38:52,135 --> 02:38:53,980
It's a different concept.

4099
02:38:53,980 --> 02:38:56,619
You're on a different
set of circumstances.

4100
02:38:56,619 --> 02:38:59,679
You come in with a request
from a Dr. because

4101
02:38:59,679 --> 02:39:01,210
somebody has got an
ailing mother and they

4102
02:39:01,210 --> 02:39:03,190
need to have a dwelling
on the property,

4103
02:39:03,190 --> 02:39:04,505
take care of
their parents.

4104
02:39:04,505 --> 02:39:06,270
You're usually
looking, you know,

4105
02:39:06,270 --> 02:39:08,430
we we put timeframes
on those that are

4106
02:39:08,430 --> 02:39:11,369
manageable a year,
maybe two years.

4107
02:39:11,369 --> 02:39:13,049
And currently we also have

4108
02:39:13,049 --> 02:39:15,719
farm temporary dwellings
for farm uses,

4109
02:39:15,719 --> 02:39:16,844
you know it until they

4110
02:39:16,844 --> 02:39:18,390
make the production test.

4111
02:39:18,390 --> 02:39:19,860
And so we're
already doing that.

4112
02:39:19,860 --> 02:39:21,120
And what we're saying is

4113
02:39:21,120 --> 02:39:22,949
that they just
don't we don't

4114
02:39:22,949 --> 02:39:24,450
have the manpower
number one to go out

4115
02:39:24,450 --> 02:39:26,099
and check if they're
coming off the property.

4116
02:39:26,099 --> 02:39:28,695
I've not checked on
ours since 1986.

4117
02:39:28,695 --> 02:39:31,050
So the fact that the
potential for them to

4118
02:39:31,050 --> 02:39:33,629
be used as a second
dwelling is very high.

4119
02:39:33,629 --> 02:39:37,259
And secondly, there there

4120
02:39:37,259 --> 02:39:38,939
may be no motivation for

4121
02:39:38,939 --> 02:39:40,680
them to change out to
a permanent dwelling.

4122
02:39:40,680 --> 02:39:42,179
And I recognize
the intent here

4123
02:39:42,179 --> 02:39:44,129
is that for those
individuals who want.

4124
02:39:44,129 --> 02:39:46,035
Want more than
a modest home,

4125
02:39:46,035 --> 02:39:47,610
that the incentive
is that they'll

4126
02:39:47,610 --> 02:39:49,994
get the crops
into production.

4127
02:39:49,994 --> 02:39:51,690
But that's not always
going to be the case.

4128
02:39:51,690 --> 02:39:53,850
And so you're creating
a whole set of

4129
02:39:53,850 --> 02:39:57,764
circumstances to get at
one specific problem.

4130
02:39:57,764 --> 02:40:00,029
And I don't think it's
the most effective.

4131
02:40:00,029 --> 02:40:03,149
When you look at
the recommendation,

4132
02:40:03,149 --> 02:40:04,890
you would only
be eligible for

4133
02:40:04,890 --> 02:40:06,269
a temporary
dwelling if you had

4134
02:40:06,269 --> 02:40:08,055
satisfied one
of the tests.

4135
02:40:08,055 --> 02:40:10,080
And I think your
testimony has been that

4136
02:40:10,080 --> 02:40:12,480
those tests thresholds
are too high.

4137
02:40:12,480 --> 02:40:13,890
So we're only talking

4138
02:40:13,890 --> 02:40:15,060
about a temporary dwelling

4139
02:40:15,060 --> 02:40:17,880
being located when
it satisfies a test,

4140
02:40:17,880 --> 02:40:20,850
that would already be
a higher threshold.

4141
02:40:20,850 --> 02:40:22,830
And so you wouldn't be
having dwellings in

4142
02:40:22,830 --> 02:40:23,999
situations where
you've already

4143
02:40:23,999 --> 02:40:26,070
suggested that we
authorize them.

4144
02:40:26,070 --> 02:40:28,905
So I I'm I still don't

4145
02:40:28,905 --> 02:40:30,675
understand
exactly what the

4146
02:40:30,675 --> 02:40:32,685
what the real
difference is.

4147
02:40:32,685 --> 02:40:36,059
I don't know if
that means that.

4148
02:40:36,059 --> 02:40:38,610
What I'm saying is there
aren't gonna be that

4149
02:40:38,610 --> 02:40:40,769
many temporary
dwellings that

4150
02:40:40,769 --> 02:40:45,255
would qualify when you
apply the TRC tests.

4151
02:40:45,255 --> 02:40:46,889
It's not as though
you're gonna have

4152
02:40:46,889 --> 02:40:49,900
scores and scores of them.

4153
02:40:50,000 --> 02:40:53,550
In accounting. If I
may, Mr. Chairman,

4154
02:40:53,550 --> 02:40:55,169
I think we're
missing the point

4155
02:40:55,169 --> 02:40:56,490
when the county
planners came to

4156
02:40:56,490 --> 02:40:58,470
you and said we
need clear and

4157
02:40:58,470 --> 02:41:01,154
objective and we also
need a capability test.

4158
02:41:01,154 --> 02:41:02,849
It was not with the idea

4159
02:41:02,849 --> 02:41:04,200
that we would
get cold seat at

4160
02:41:04,200 --> 02:41:05,820
the last minute and only

4161
02:41:05,820 --> 02:41:08,459
allow them on a
temporary basis.

4162
02:41:08,459 --> 02:41:11,519
What's happening here
is the concept is

4163
02:41:11,519 --> 02:41:13,019
eroding and we're not

4164
02:41:13,019 --> 02:41:14,699
getting to where
we want it to be.

4165
02:41:14,699 --> 02:41:17,099
We think there's
a legitimate role

4166
02:41:17,099 --> 02:41:18,780
for a capability test.

4167
02:41:18,780 --> 02:41:20,130
And that test, if it's

4168
02:41:20,130 --> 02:41:21,510
related to income
standards,

4169
02:41:21,510 --> 02:41:24,059
can be higher than the
has produced test.

4170
02:41:24,059 --> 02:41:26,474
That's all we've said.
That's our position.

4171
02:41:26,474 --> 02:41:27,284
Now.

4172
02:41:27,284 --> 02:41:29,115
Medical hardships.

4173
02:41:29,115 --> 02:41:30,509
The mobile home is tied

4174
02:41:30,509 --> 02:41:32,070
into the existing
septic tank.

4175
02:41:32,070 --> 02:41:34,334
It's located next to
the existing house.

4176
02:41:34,334 --> 02:41:36,975
The financial commitment
is different.

4177
02:41:36,975 --> 02:41:39,209
In a farming set
of circumstances.

4178
02:41:39,209 --> 02:41:40,439
You're asking how
many people are

4179
02:41:40,439 --> 02:41:41,850
going to come to
the front counter

4180
02:41:41,850 --> 02:41:43,979
and be willing to live
in a manufactured home

4181
02:41:43,979 --> 02:41:45,270
for four or five years.

4182
02:41:45,270 --> 02:41:46,619
But the landscaping and

4183
02:41:46,619 --> 02:41:47,940
pull it off and then put

4184
02:41:47,940 --> 02:41:49,229
a conventional house back

4185
02:41:49,229 --> 02:41:50,939
in that same home site.

4186
02:41:50,939 --> 02:41:53,054
It is a different set
of circumstances.

4187
02:41:53,054 --> 02:41:54,540
It's not what
we envisioned

4188
02:41:54,540 --> 02:41:55,920
in terms of the
capability to

4189
02:41:55,920 --> 02:41:57,449
ask or in terms

4190
02:41:57,449 --> 02:41:59,849
of a minimum
parcel size test.

4191
02:41:59,849 --> 02:42:01,574
So you haven't
accomplished

4192
02:42:01,574 --> 02:42:02,310
what we wanted you

4193
02:42:02,310 --> 02:42:05,189
to accomplish and so
we're not satisfied.

4194
02:42:05,189 --> 02:42:06,645
Okay.

4195
02:42:06,645 --> 02:42:08,680
Questions.

4196
02:42:08,900 --> 02:42:10,979
Thanks.

4197
02:42:10,979 --> 02:42:13,650
11, short question.

4198
02:42:13,650 --> 02:42:18,510
I noticed in your proposal

4199
02:42:18,510 --> 02:42:19,530
here that you
were concerned

4200
02:42:19,530 --> 02:42:21,615
about outbidding as well.

4201
02:42:21,615 --> 02:42:23,040
Would you like
to make any kind

4202
02:42:23,040 --> 02:42:24,974
of a statement on that?

4203
02:42:24,974 --> 02:42:26,189
No.

4204
02:42:26,189 --> 02:42:27,719
We're concerned or

4205
02:42:27,719 --> 02:42:30,479
related related
farm buildings.

4206
02:42:30,479 --> 02:42:31,935
I guess I should
put it that way.

4207
02:42:31,935 --> 02:42:34,020
Farmed dwellings
that says Dwell,

4208
02:42:34,020 --> 02:42:35,235
accessory dwellings.

4209
02:42:35,235 --> 02:42:38,040
Oh, Accessory Dwelling,
farm dwellings on

4210
02:42:38,040 --> 02:42:40,050
a parcel have not

4211
02:42:40,050 --> 02:42:41,505
been addressed for
the hired man.

4212
02:42:41,505 --> 02:42:46,410
Alright. Yet my my
reading of 215283,

4213
02:42:46,410 --> 02:42:48,089
Mr. Chairman, is it says

4214
02:42:48,089 --> 02:42:49,649
dwellings in

4215
02:42:49,649 --> 02:42:52,049
conjunction with
farmers. It's plural.

4216
02:42:52,049 --> 02:42:55,679
The rule says
dwelling singular.

4217
02:42:55,679 --> 02:42:57,480
And there's wording in

4218
02:42:57,480 --> 02:42:59,129
the proposed rules
that suggest

4219
02:42:59,129 --> 02:43:01,049
all these tested tests

4220
02:43:01,049 --> 02:43:03,105
are geared to
one dwelling.

4221
02:43:03,105 --> 02:43:06,225
Wonderful. We have
the question of,

4222
02:43:06,225 --> 02:43:09,375
what about your
clear intent

4223
02:43:09,375 --> 02:43:12,584
to only allow one foreign
dwelling on a farm?

4224
02:43:12,584 --> 02:43:14,790
Or if you're
going to allow

4225
02:43:14,790 --> 02:43:16,725
a second and third
farm dwelling.

4226
02:43:16,725 --> 02:43:18,899
How did these criteria
relate to that?

4227
02:43:18,899 --> 02:43:20,775
And we just needed
that clarified.

4228
02:43:20,775 --> 02:43:22,799
And we will do that
tomorrow when we

4229
02:43:22,799 --> 02:43:25,619
get into our two
good point, Mr.

4230
02:43:25,619 --> 02:43:27,270
Chair, see, by the way,

4231
02:43:27,270 --> 02:43:28,739
as rest probably
knows from

4232
02:43:28,739 --> 02:43:30,765
having been to one
of the meetings,

4233
02:43:30,765 --> 02:43:33,810
got to the point where
they ran out of time.

4234
02:43:33,810 --> 02:43:35,190
They wanted to address

4235
02:43:35,190 --> 02:43:36,480
the second and third and

4236
02:43:36,480 --> 02:43:38,190
fourth farm
dwellings on a farm,

4237
02:43:38,190 --> 02:43:39,270
but they simply ran out of

4238
02:43:39,270 --> 02:43:40,500
time before they
needed to make

4239
02:43:40,500 --> 02:43:41,699
a report to
have any chance

4240
02:43:41,699 --> 02:43:43,170
of feeding into
this process.

4241
02:43:43,170 --> 02:43:46,755
They recognize that they
want to go back and,

4242
02:43:46,755 --> 02:43:48,764
and develop such a test.

4243
02:43:48,764 --> 02:43:50,534
Tomorrow when we
get into this,

4244
02:43:50,534 --> 02:43:51,809
will tell you what

4245
02:43:51,809 --> 02:43:53,520
our recommendation
is on it.

4246
02:43:53,520 --> 02:43:55,544
We came up with
three options

4247
02:43:55,544 --> 02:43:56,880
this morning in
our discussion,

4248
02:43:56,880 --> 02:43:58,199
so we will be around

4249
02:43:58,199 --> 02:43:59,790
tomorrow and
hopefully have

4250
02:43:59,790 --> 02:44:02,759
a chance to discuss
that with your dream.

4251
02:44:02,759 --> 02:44:05,009
Mr. Chairman, one quick
last point is you'll

4252
02:44:05,009 --> 02:44:07,680
remember in
January that we

4253
02:44:07,680 --> 02:44:08,999
had testified that
we would like

4254
02:44:08,999 --> 02:44:10,619
these both the
farm dwelling and

4255
02:44:10,619 --> 02:44:11,730
goal 34 amendments to

4256
02:44:11,730 --> 02:44:14,070
be packaged
together so that we

4257
02:44:14,070 --> 02:44:15,705
can handle them
in one lump

4258
02:44:15,705 --> 02:44:16,560
all when it comes down

4259
02:44:16,560 --> 02:44:17,729
to the local jurisdiction.

4260
02:44:17,729 --> 02:44:20,550
And because of
the comments

4261
02:44:20,550 --> 02:44:22,094
we've presented here,

4262
02:44:22,094 --> 02:44:23,520
we've somewhat changed

4263
02:44:23,520 --> 02:44:24,569
her mind and that
we would like

4264
02:44:24,569 --> 02:44:25,619
to see these
things resolved

4265
02:44:25,619 --> 02:44:26,790
with a PharmD dwelling.

4266
02:44:26,790 --> 02:44:30,270
If it means that goal
34 might move on and

4267
02:44:30,270 --> 02:44:32,190
somehow repackage
it down so that

4268
02:44:32,190 --> 02:44:34,365
you can meet your
March 1 deadline.

4269
02:44:34,365 --> 02:44:37,545
But we do have
significant concerns

4270
02:44:37,545 --> 02:44:40,989
on these farm
dwelling criteria.

4271
02:44:42,530 --> 02:44:46,319
Are you are you all
going to get together

4272
02:44:46,319 --> 02:44:50,579
again the this evening
or any time tomorrow?

4273
02:44:50,579 --> 02:44:51,870
I was just
wondering if there

4274
02:44:51,870 --> 02:44:54,399
were positive older offer.

4275
02:44:55,910 --> 02:45:03,760
Maybe a beer. I
was wondering if

4276
02:45:03,760 --> 02:45:05,310
there was a possibility

4277
02:45:05,310 --> 02:45:07,049
that you could
get some kind of

4278
02:45:07,049 --> 02:45:11,175
reaction to
Cliff Carnegies.

4279
02:45:11,175 --> 02:45:13,005
Proposal.

4280
02:45:13,005 --> 02:45:14,700
If you're
interested in doing

4281
02:45:14,700 --> 02:45:16,169
that, I for one,

4282
02:45:16,169 --> 02:45:18,060
would like to hear what

4283
02:45:18,060 --> 02:45:20,249
the counties have
to say about that.

4284
02:45:20,249 --> 02:45:21,689
I think there's
probably some

4285
02:45:21,689 --> 02:45:23,010
other members of
the commission that

4286
02:45:23,010 --> 02:45:26,610
would remain
chairman Right

4287
02:45:26,610 --> 02:45:28,004
now. I don't know.

4288
02:45:28,004 --> 02:45:31,125
It might help some of
us judge that proposal.

4289
02:45:31,125 --> 02:45:33,780
If we had some numbers

4290
02:45:33,780 --> 02:45:35,070
from bankers that kind of

4291
02:45:35,070 --> 02:45:37,110
indicated what
that test was

4292
02:45:37,110 --> 02:45:40,095
likely to mean in terms
of a bottom line,

4293
02:45:40,095 --> 02:45:42,270
the methodology
on its surface

4294
02:45:42,270 --> 02:45:43,859
seems to make sense.

4295
02:45:43,859 --> 02:45:46,710
But I have not had
that experience of

4296
02:45:46,710 --> 02:45:48,089
going to a banker
and finding

4297
02:45:48,089 --> 02:45:49,620
out what that
bottom line is.

4298
02:45:49,620 --> 02:45:53,400
I think get a handout

4299
02:45:53,400 --> 02:45:55,350
that shows you how
it would work if

4300
02:45:55,350 --> 02:45:58,110
you had a gross income
of approximately

4301
02:45:58,110 --> 02:46:02,715
$250,000 using the
28% rule of thumb?

4302
02:46:02,715 --> 02:46:04,739
Oh, yes. Net
income of yes.

4303
02:46:04,739 --> 02:46:07,334
I think it was
37,000 or 3,000.

4304
02:46:07,334 --> 02:46:08,595
Have you seen this?

4305
02:46:08,595 --> 02:46:10,380
Well, if it's a
quarter of $1 million,

4306
02:46:10,380 --> 02:46:12,569
I don t think
it's gonna be

4307
02:46:12,569 --> 02:46:14,865
worth the price of
beer to talk about it.

4308
02:46:14,865 --> 02:46:19,299
Well, that would
be an expense.

4309
02:46:20,210 --> 02:46:23,430
But could we get yes,

4310
02:46:23,430 --> 02:46:24,914
some kind of a reaction?

4311
02:46:24,914 --> 02:46:27,389
You might, you might
want to talk to people,

4312
02:46:27,389 --> 02:46:28,530
this thing I'll
give you my land,

4313
02:46:28,530 --> 02:46:31,454
you can take it and we
have other ones here.

4314
02:46:31,454 --> 02:46:33,570
He's got his calculation
on the backup on me,

4315
02:46:33,570 --> 02:46:35,190
yours and I can show you

4316
02:46:35,190 --> 02:46:36,749
just want to recognize
that some more

4317
02:46:36,749 --> 02:46:38,459
orange right there
is all kinds of now

4318
02:46:38,459 --> 02:46:41,199
you've got your own Okay.

4319
02:47:01,130 --> 02:47:02,730
Mr. Chairman,

4320
02:47:02,730 --> 02:47:04,529
members members of
the commission,

4321
02:47:04,529 --> 02:47:06,044
VIC asphalt or Tillman,

4322
02:47:06,044 --> 02:47:07,619
County Planning Director.

4323
02:47:07,619 --> 02:47:09,269
I have a strong
commitment to

4324
02:47:09,269 --> 02:47:10,305
the state program and

4325
02:47:10,305 --> 02:47:11,669
detecting
agricultural land,

4326
02:47:11,669 --> 02:47:12,869
and I hope you'll

4327
02:47:12,869 --> 02:47:15,059
enabled me to maintain
that commitment.

4328
02:47:15,059 --> 02:47:20,174
One of my primary
concerns is the process.

4329
02:47:20,174 --> 02:47:22,289
There hasn't been
enough time to give

4330
02:47:22,289 --> 02:47:23,550
adequate consideration to

4331
02:47:23,550 --> 02:47:26,174
the PharmD
dwelling criteria.

4332
02:47:26,174 --> 02:47:30,224
I got the information
on Monday and I was

4333
02:47:30,224 --> 02:47:30,749
I'm in the middle of

4334
02:47:30,749 --> 02:47:31,860
a budget process and it's

4335
02:47:31,860 --> 02:47:34,439
just a chance to look
at it last night.

4336
02:47:34,439 --> 02:47:36,314
And I'm really
concerned about that.

4337
02:47:36,314 --> 02:47:37,605
I would like to have

4338
02:47:37,605 --> 02:47:39,315
the opportunity
to sit down

4339
02:47:39,315 --> 02:47:41,400
and review this with

4340
02:47:41,400 --> 02:47:43,560
Tillman County
Creamery Association,

4341
02:47:43,560 --> 02:47:45,059
which is the producer

4342
02:47:45,059 --> 02:47:46,085
own cooperative
and tell them

4343
02:47:46,085 --> 02:47:47,775
a county that represents

4344
02:47:47,775 --> 02:47:49,169
all of the dairy industry,

4345
02:47:49,169 --> 02:47:51,075
like a sit down
with them next week

4346
02:47:51,075 --> 02:47:52,980
and talk about
these criteria,

4347
02:47:52,980 --> 02:47:55,199
including the
Carnegie proposal and

4348
02:47:55,199 --> 02:47:56,399
see how it works for dairy

4349
02:47:56,399 --> 02:47:57,885
farming and tell
them accounting.

4350
02:47:57,885 --> 02:47:59,370
I'm really concerned
that if we

4351
02:47:59,370 --> 02:48:01,005
don't have an
opportunity to do this,

4352
02:48:01,005 --> 02:48:03,194
there's significant
risks that we could

4353
02:48:03,194 --> 02:48:04,935
eliminate some
of the programs,

4354
02:48:04,935 --> 02:48:06,360
strongest supporters.

4355
02:48:06,360 --> 02:48:08,204
Our program
until my county

4356
02:48:08,204 --> 02:48:10,380
has been really based on

4357
02:48:10,380 --> 02:48:13,409
strong support from the
agricultural sector,

4358
02:48:13,409 --> 02:48:14,730
particularly
dairy industry.

4359
02:48:14,730 --> 02:48:16,784
And I don't want to
risk alienating that.

4360
02:48:16,784 --> 02:48:22,034
Just to talk briefly
about the criteria.

4361
02:48:22,034 --> 02:48:24,929
The test one,
minimum size,

4362
02:48:24,929 --> 02:48:26,759
hundred and 60 acres,

4363
02:48:26,759 --> 02:48:29,175
doesn't work at all
until my county.

4364
02:48:29,175 --> 02:48:33,540
Our typical dairy
farm is 8,160 acres,

4365
02:48:33,540 --> 02:48:35,159
with the largest
field size

4366
02:48:35,159 --> 02:48:37,034
being less than 80 acres.

4367
02:48:37,034 --> 02:48:38,610
You just don't have

4368
02:48:38,610 --> 02:48:39,750
the situation
where you would

4369
02:48:39,750 --> 02:48:43,634
qualify for a dwelling
with this criteria.

4370
02:48:43,634 --> 02:48:45,600
What I would like, what
I would offer to you,

4371
02:48:45,600 --> 02:48:46,680
it'd be the opportunity

4372
02:48:46,680 --> 02:48:48,660
to adopt a lower minimum

4373
02:48:48,660 --> 02:48:50,129
under this criteria if

4374
02:48:50,129 --> 02:48:52,005
we can justify
that with you.

4375
02:48:52,005 --> 02:48:54,314
And I would have that
be a high threshold.

4376
02:48:54,314 --> 02:48:55,889
And I would
involve our dairy

4377
02:48:55,889 --> 02:48:57,450
industry and
that very much.

4378
02:48:57,450 --> 02:48:59,249
But I think that
that would provide

4379
02:48:59,249 --> 02:49:01,619
an opportunity to utilize

4380
02:49:01,619 --> 02:49:03,330
that criteria as we
have in the past,

4381
02:49:03,330 --> 02:49:04,799
to be able to
continue to utilize

4382
02:49:04,799 --> 02:49:06,900
it in a way
that you can be

4383
02:49:06,900 --> 02:49:08,490
comfortable in
and we can be

4384
02:49:08,490 --> 02:49:09,600
comfortable until
the county with

4385
02:49:09,600 --> 02:49:11,160
our dairy industry on it.

4386
02:49:11,160 --> 02:49:14,639
That provision
was in 3661 with

4387
02:49:14,639 --> 02:49:17,369
respect to the minimum

4388
02:49:17,369 --> 02:49:18,825
lot size and
the farm zone.

4389
02:49:18,825 --> 02:49:20,279
And you don't have to have

4390
02:49:20,279 --> 02:49:21,630
the same language we
could come up with

4391
02:49:21,630 --> 02:49:22,829
something that you
felt comfortable

4392
02:49:22,829 --> 02:49:25,530
with with respect
to test to frankly,

4393
02:49:25,530 --> 02:49:26,609
I probably am not bright

4394
02:49:26,609 --> 02:49:28,545
enough to understand
that test.

4395
02:49:28,545 --> 02:49:30,825
Maybe with some additional

4396
02:49:30,825 --> 02:49:32,190
study and some coaching,

4397
02:49:32,190 --> 02:49:33,539
I could get a grasp of

4398
02:49:33,539 --> 02:49:35,279
what I would like
would be to have

4399
02:49:35,279 --> 02:49:36,209
Jim Johnson come over to

4400
02:49:36,209 --> 02:49:37,320
toma county perhaps as

4401
02:49:37,320 --> 02:49:39,389
soon as next week
and sit down

4402
02:49:39,389 --> 02:49:40,589
with some key members of

4403
02:49:40,589 --> 02:49:42,945
our agricultural sector

4404
02:49:42,945 --> 02:49:44,220
was cratering and others.

4405
02:49:44,220 --> 02:49:45,660
And explain that
test to them

4406
02:49:45,660 --> 02:49:46,769
and see how they
feel about it,

4407
02:49:46,769 --> 02:49:48,225
see if they feel it works.

4408
02:49:48,225 --> 02:49:49,739
And then finally, the test

4409
02:49:49,739 --> 02:49:51,585
three to income test.

4410
02:49:51,585 --> 02:49:53,715
Right now, I
think that would

4411
02:49:53,715 --> 02:49:55,259
probably work best
until my county,

4412
02:49:55,259 --> 02:49:58,605
the average farm in 87 was

4413
02:49:58,605 --> 02:50:00,749
making about $250,000 and

4414
02:50:00,749 --> 02:50:02,400
it's well over 300,000.

4415
02:50:02,400 --> 02:50:06,120
Now, I am rather
hesitant to, however,

4416
02:50:06,120 --> 02:50:07,830
to walk up to

4417
02:50:07,830 --> 02:50:10,034
the average Swiss
dairy farmer and

4418
02:50:10,034 --> 02:50:12,855
ask them how much money
they made last year.

4419
02:50:12,855 --> 02:50:13,980
I have a feeling
I might be

4420
02:50:13,980 --> 02:50:15,434
directed to their
liquid tank.

4421
02:50:15,434 --> 02:50:19,259
I would like to be
able to visit with

4422
02:50:19,259 --> 02:50:21,570
our dairy industry
again in terms of

4423
02:50:21,570 --> 02:50:22,665
their comfort level

4424
02:50:22,665 --> 02:50:24,734
in applying that standard.

4425
02:50:24,734 --> 02:50:27,824
Then finally, I have

4426
02:50:27,824 --> 02:50:28,829
concerns about

4427
02:50:28,829 --> 02:50:30,180
the temporary
drilling criteria.

4428
02:50:30,180 --> 02:50:31,319
Again, I'd like to visit

4429
02:50:31,319 --> 02:50:32,610
with the people that
that would effect

4430
02:50:32,610 --> 02:50:33,930
and the people are
committed to protecting

4431
02:50:33,930 --> 02:50:35,519
farmland and toma County,

4432
02:50:35,519 --> 02:50:38,039
we need to get the
additional dwellings

4433
02:50:38,039 --> 02:50:40,829
characterized because
these typical farms

4434
02:50:40,829 --> 02:50:41,880
that I talked
about until I'm

4435
02:50:41,880 --> 02:50:46,155
a county have two or
three fine dwellings on.

4436
02:50:46,155 --> 02:50:49,920
That's dairy farming
is relatively

4437
02:50:49,920 --> 02:50:52,649
labor-intensive
and you're going

4438
02:50:52,649 --> 02:50:54,315
to have to have some
additional dwellings.

4439
02:50:54,315 --> 02:50:55,620
And then finally, bottom

4440
02:50:55,620 --> 02:50:57,915
line, we need more time.

4441
02:50:57,915 --> 02:51:00,060
I don t think in
good conscience,

4442
02:51:00,060 --> 02:51:01,724
you can adopt
this tomorrow.

4443
02:51:01,724 --> 02:51:03,210
I think you can
separate it from

4444
02:51:03,210 --> 02:51:04,769
the rest of what
you're doing legally.

4445
02:51:04,769 --> 02:51:05,880
You don t have to resolve

4446
02:51:05,880 --> 02:51:07,694
this issue by March 1.

4447
02:51:07,694 --> 02:51:09,509
I just absolutely have

4448
02:51:09,509 --> 02:51:10,650
to have some
time to talk to

4449
02:51:10,650 --> 02:51:11,760
the people who
are affected by

4450
02:51:11,760 --> 02:51:13,200
this and toma
county, right.

4451
02:51:13,200 --> 02:51:15,750
I'm going to have
a lot of concern.

4452
02:51:15,750 --> 02:51:16,934
Thank you, Chairman.

4453
02:51:16,934 --> 02:51:18,614
I got one question
for you, Bill.

4454
02:51:18,614 --> 02:51:21,330
Have you how many
farmed dwellings

4455
02:51:21,330 --> 02:51:23,640
have you issued
to him and tell

4456
02:51:23,640 --> 02:51:25,410
him what county where
he started took

4457
02:51:25,410 --> 02:51:26,670
a bare piece of

4458
02:51:26,670 --> 02:51:27,720
land and

4459
02:51:27,720 --> 02:51:29,580
didn't turn on the
one down to build it.

4460
02:51:29,580 --> 02:51:31,080
I think that there
are relatively

4461
02:51:31,080 --> 02:51:33,329
few start-up
situations now.

4462
02:51:33,329 --> 02:51:35,700
There are some changing
circumstances.

4463
02:51:35,700 --> 02:51:37,410
There are people who are

4464
02:51:37,410 --> 02:51:39,654
getting out of farming
in California,

4465
02:51:39,654 --> 02:51:40,919
coming up and buying and

4466
02:51:40,919 --> 02:51:42,569
consolidating some
situations and tell

4467
02:51:42,569 --> 02:51:45,824
him a county that
are It's hard.

4468
02:51:45,824 --> 02:51:46,920
I'm seeing. One thing that

4469
02:51:46,920 --> 02:51:48,869
concerns me about
this is that I'm,

4470
02:51:48,869 --> 02:51:51,944
I'm seeing a lot of
a lot of static.

4471
02:51:51,944 --> 02:51:53,699
It's a very
static situation.

4472
02:51:53,699 --> 02:51:54,359
The dairy industry,

4473
02:51:54,359 --> 02:51:55,379
like a lot of
other things,

4474
02:51:55,379 --> 02:51:56,954
is subject to change.

4475
02:51:56,954 --> 02:51:59,309
I see some changes
in toma county,

4476
02:51:59,309 --> 02:52:00,579
some of which I'm
comfortable with so much.

4477
02:52:00,579 --> 02:52:01,980
I'm not moving
to feed lots,

4478
02:52:01,980 --> 02:52:05,010
which is even
more intensified.

4479
02:52:05,010 --> 02:52:06,719
I don t think we
can judge things

4480
02:52:06,719 --> 02:52:07,859
necessarily about
how they'd been in

4481
02:52:07,859 --> 02:52:09,105
the last ten or 20 acres.

4482
02:52:09,105 --> 02:52:11,340
I see some some
concerns that

4483
02:52:11,340 --> 02:52:12,990
some some resistance to

4484
02:52:12,990 --> 02:52:14,849
allowing even new people
coming into farming.

4485
02:52:14,849 --> 02:52:17,010
That concerns me. I think
we have to be open.

4486
02:52:17,010 --> 02:52:18,435
I need to talk again,

4487
02:52:18,435 --> 02:52:20,130
the people who are
doing this alone and

4488
02:52:20,130 --> 02:52:22,809
toma counting and see
what works for them.

4489
02:52:23,750 --> 02:52:25,829
I won't take
any more time,

4490
02:52:25,829 --> 02:52:26,519
but I wouldn't do want

4491
02:52:26,519 --> 02:52:27,300
to discuss it tomorrow.

4492
02:52:27,300 --> 02:52:27,825
Are you going to write?

4493
02:52:27,825 --> 02:52:29,069
There aren't a
lot. I'm not

4494
02:52:29,069 --> 02:52:31,110
gonna be able to
be here tomorrow.

4495
02:52:31,110 --> 02:52:32,969
There are not a lot

4496
02:52:32,969 --> 02:52:35,250
of there

4497
02:52:35,250 --> 02:52:37,680
isn't undeveloped
land until my county,

4498
02:52:37,680 --> 02:52:39,494
we used to go out
and find 100 acres

4499
02:52:39,494 --> 02:52:41,564
and put the first
house on it.

4500
02:52:41,564 --> 02:52:43,889
That's not how it works
and we all know that

4501
02:52:43,889 --> 02:52:45,239
it's no problem
as far as I'm

4502
02:52:45,239 --> 02:52:46,934
concerned in
Kilimo County.

4503
02:52:46,934 --> 02:52:51,239
Well, that doesn't that

4504
02:52:51,239 --> 02:52:52,380
doesn't answer all of it

4505
02:52:52,380 --> 02:52:53,159
because there's

4506
02:52:53,159 --> 02:52:54,539
the additional
dwelling criteria,

4507
02:52:54,539 --> 02:52:55,950
how that's going
to relate to

4508
02:52:55,950 --> 02:52:57,914
your your existing tests.

4509
02:52:57,914 --> 02:52:59,369
There's some serious
questions yet I

4510
02:52:59,369 --> 02:53:00,975
don't think you can
resolve by tomorrow.

4511
02:53:00,975 --> 02:53:03,480
Well, I want to solve
those problems.

4512
02:53:03,480 --> 02:53:05,159
I questioned what you need

4513
02:53:05,159 --> 02:53:07,169
any more dairy
farm dwellings

4514
02:53:07,169 --> 02:53:10,269
off there were there
was not a farm already.

4515
02:53:10,340 --> 02:53:13,530
There are some areas,
frankly, Hector,

4516
02:53:13,530 --> 02:53:15,540
where they're currently is

4517
02:53:15,540 --> 02:53:17,294
not dairy farming
going on.

4518
02:53:17,294 --> 02:53:20,174
That could be converted
to dairy farming.

4519
02:53:20,174 --> 02:53:22,050
That could involve
the placement

4520
02:53:22,050 --> 02:53:23,970
of that initial dwelling?

4521
02:53:23,970 --> 02:53:25,919
I know of those situations

4522
02:53:25,919 --> 02:53:26,700
and I think that would be

4523
02:53:26,700 --> 02:53:27,960
positive Potomac
counting if

4524
02:53:27,960 --> 02:53:30,009
that we're able to happen.

4525
02:53:31,640 --> 02:53:33,764
Questions.

4526
02:53:33,764 --> 02:53:35,190
Thank you for your time.

4527
02:53:35,190 --> 02:53:38,139
Thanks. Daniel columns

4528
02:53:43,880 --> 02:53:45,899
of Daniel Collins and

4529
02:53:45,899 --> 02:53:47,160
I'm here
representing the day

4530
02:53:47,160 --> 02:53:48,330
shoots county
sector or the

4531
02:53:48,330 --> 02:53:50,204
Central Oregon
Board of Realtors.

4532
02:53:50,204 --> 02:53:51,899
And I'm here to day

4533
02:53:51,899 --> 02:53:53,414
to tell you
that I support,

4534
02:53:53,414 --> 02:53:57,059
in principle, the
recommendation

4535
02:53:57,059 --> 02:53:58,800
put forth by the TRC.

4536
02:53:58,800 --> 02:54:00,719
I do take exception to

4537
02:54:00,719 --> 02:54:02,999
the income thresholds
provided therein.

4538
02:54:02,999 --> 02:54:04,800
I think that the
gentleman from

4539
02:54:04,800 --> 02:54:07,110
Union County with
is overhead.

4540
02:54:07,110 --> 02:54:12,329
Demonstration gave a
very compelling reason

4541
02:54:12,329 --> 02:54:14,309
as to why those income
thresholds don't

4542
02:54:14,309 --> 02:54:17,115
work in many areas
throughout the state.

4543
02:54:17,115 --> 02:54:19,319
I think that the
citizens are

4544
02:54:19,319 --> 02:54:21,149
entitled to
certainty and I

4545
02:54:21,149 --> 02:54:24,390
think that the
recommendations put forth by

4546
02:54:24,390 --> 02:54:26,625
the TRC are

4547
02:54:26,625 --> 02:54:29,204
a very good beginning
towards that certainty.

4548
02:54:29,204 --> 02:54:30,150
I think they addressed

4549
02:54:30,150 --> 02:54:32,639
the flexibility
that will address

4550
02:54:32,639 --> 02:54:34,920
the myriad of
circumstances

4551
02:54:34,920 --> 02:54:37,229
that exist throughout
the state.

4552
02:54:37,229 --> 02:54:38,820
I also believe
that we're at

4553
02:54:38,820 --> 02:54:41,639
the income thresholds
are concerned that, uh,

4554
02:54:41,639 --> 02:54:43,590
we need more flexibility,

4555
02:54:43,590 --> 02:54:45,180
again to relate to

4556
02:54:45,180 --> 02:54:48,135
the myriad of circumstances
that do exist.

4557
02:54:48,135 --> 02:54:50,639
I am concerned and

4558
02:54:50,639 --> 02:54:52,590
I see the concern here
from the members of

4559
02:54:52,590 --> 02:54:54,585
this body to preserve

4560
02:54:54,585 --> 02:54:57,195
large parcels of
a resource land.

4561
02:54:57,195 --> 02:54:58,965
And I applaud
that concern.

4562
02:54:58,965 --> 02:55:01,139
I think that we also have

4563
02:55:01,139 --> 02:55:03,390
many instances where
we have parcels

4564
02:55:03,390 --> 02:55:04,994
of VFC zoned land

4565
02:55:04,994 --> 02:55:07,019
throughout the state
that are significantly

4566
02:55:07,019 --> 02:55:09,179
smaller than can
be serviced by

4567
02:55:09,179 --> 02:55:12,195
the criteria
provided herein.

4568
02:55:12,195 --> 02:55:15,870
And I would very much
be disappointed to

4569
02:55:15,870 --> 02:55:18,690
see a lack of

4570
02:55:18,690 --> 02:55:21,135
encouragement of
productive use

4571
02:55:21,135 --> 02:55:23,490
of small parcels
and ESU zones.

4572
02:55:23,490 --> 02:55:25,260
And so I am here to

4573
02:55:25,260 --> 02:55:27,824
plead that this matter
is very important.

4574
02:55:27,824 --> 02:55:29,099
We need the certainty,

4575
02:55:29,099 --> 02:55:30,809
but I would also
really ask that you

4576
02:55:30,809 --> 02:55:32,730
take the time to assess

4577
02:55:32,730 --> 02:55:34,560
the criteria very
carefully before

4578
02:55:34,560 --> 02:55:35,549
you passed down to

4579
02:55:35,549 --> 02:55:36,944
judgment and
assessment here.

4580
02:55:36,944 --> 02:55:37,664
Thank you.

4581
02:55:37,664 --> 02:55:38,639
Thank you.

4582
02:55:38,639 --> 02:55:41,265
Questions, Mr. Collins?

4583
02:55:41,265 --> 02:55:46,300
Thank you for going
over lowest Carnegie.

4584
02:55:49,880 --> 02:55:53,535
The whiskey omega0 for
eggs or again, Albany.

4585
02:55:53,535 --> 02:55:56,220
I'm a farmer connected

4586
02:55:56,220 --> 02:55:58,800
with about 350 acres
of row crop land.

4587
02:55:58,800 --> 02:56:00,000
I'm tempted to read

4588
02:56:00,000 --> 02:56:01,740
my carefully
written testimony.

4589
02:56:01,740 --> 02:56:04,364
But I think
more than that,

4590
02:56:04,364 --> 02:56:05,880
I'd like to talk
just briefly

4591
02:56:05,880 --> 02:56:08,040
about the testimony
you've heard today.

4592
02:56:08,040 --> 02:56:09,959
And I think the
question Some

4593
02:56:09,959 --> 02:56:11,609
of us farmers
have been asking

4594
02:56:11,609 --> 02:56:14,099
is how strong Oregon's
commitment is to

4595
02:56:14,099 --> 02:56:17,205
support a strong
agricultural economy.

4596
02:56:17,205 --> 02:56:19,259
Our ag economy is
dependent upon

4597
02:56:19,259 --> 02:56:21,614
a very valuable land base.

4598
02:56:21,614 --> 02:56:24,359
And the pressures on

4599
02:56:24,359 --> 02:56:26,520
farmland are
tremendous right now,

4600
02:56:26,520 --> 02:56:28,590
you have expanding urban
growth boundaries.

4601
02:56:28,590 --> 02:56:30,629
You had Mr. Foresman
talking about can be

4602
02:56:30,629 --> 02:56:31,979
that sad story there

4603
02:56:31,979 --> 02:56:33,450
snippet here is
snippet there.

4604
02:56:33,450 --> 02:56:34,800
Aggregate extraction and

4605
02:56:34,800 --> 02:56:36,570
now even aggregate
stockpiling

4606
02:56:36,570 --> 02:56:38,279
and crushing on
high-value land.

4607
02:56:38,279 --> 02:56:39,825
You got roads
and highways,

4608
02:56:39,825 --> 02:56:41,730
lots of record
replacement of

4609
02:56:41,730 --> 02:56:43,530
old farm dwellings
by any non

4610
02:56:43,530 --> 02:56:45,690
former you have
rural homes.

4611
02:56:45,690 --> 02:56:47,459
And so today you're
making the decisions on

4612
02:56:47,459 --> 02:56:49,590
how to respond to one
of those pressures,

4613
02:56:49,590 --> 02:56:51,719
the pressures for a
rural home sites,

4614
02:56:51,719 --> 02:56:53,370
under what
circumstances in

4615
02:56:53,370 --> 02:56:55,559
the decades ahead
with a house be

4616
02:56:55,559 --> 02:56:57,660
considered a
farmhouse customarily

4617
02:56:57,660 --> 02:57:00,345
provided in conjunction
with farm use?

4618
02:57:00,345 --> 02:57:01,994
Excuse me.

4619
02:57:01,994 --> 02:57:04,199
Can the person who wants
a rural home site,

4620
02:57:04,199 --> 02:57:05,700
but it's not a
commercial farmer,

4621
02:57:05,700 --> 02:57:07,964
meet some criteria for
a foreign dwelling.

4622
02:57:07,964 --> 02:57:09,239
And you'll see
that's what I've

4623
02:57:09,239 --> 02:57:10,919
heard the planners
talking about.

4624
02:57:10,919 --> 02:57:11,729
That's what I hear

4625
02:57:11,729 --> 02:57:13,124
the realtors
talking about.

4626
02:57:13,124 --> 02:57:14,444
The farmers are saying,

4627
02:57:14,444 --> 02:57:16,515
if you want commercial
farming and Oregon,

4628
02:57:16,515 --> 02:57:17,789
you'd better make sure we

4629
02:57:17,789 --> 02:57:19,109
don't have more housing.

4630
02:57:19,109 --> 02:57:21,030
But the planners are
saying how can we

4631
02:57:21,030 --> 02:57:22,919
meet that person
at the desk?

4632
02:57:22,919 --> 02:57:24,780
And that's a question
you have to ask.

4633
02:57:24,780 --> 02:57:26,759
Are you trying to
make provisions for

4634
02:57:26,759 --> 02:57:30,749
the planners to have
people have rural homes,

4635
02:57:30,749 --> 02:57:33,179
homes side, or
you're really trying

4636
02:57:33,179 --> 02:57:35,325
to protect commercial
agriculture.

4637
02:57:35,325 --> 02:57:36,630
The biggest loophole or

4638
02:57:36,630 --> 02:57:37,980
the TRC criteria is

4639
02:57:37,980 --> 02:57:40,125
number two, production
capability.

4640
02:57:40,125 --> 02:57:42,150
I had about a two-minute
conversation with

4641
02:57:42,150 --> 02:57:43,500
Jim peas was disappointed

4642
02:57:43,500 --> 02:57:44,955
he wasn't going
to be here today.

4643
02:57:44,955 --> 02:57:47,055
I haven't seen the
testing he's done.

4644
02:57:47,055 --> 02:57:49,169
And I'm sorry
that after we

4645
02:57:49,169 --> 02:57:51,345
hear his his
testimony tomorrow,

4646
02:57:51,345 --> 02:57:52,769
there will be no point for

4647
02:57:52,769 --> 02:57:54,480
no opportunity for
public endpoint,

4648
02:57:54,480 --> 02:57:56,594
and I'm very
disappointed about that.

4649
02:57:56,594 --> 02:58:00,120
We do not see test to
as acceptable because

4650
02:58:00,120 --> 02:58:03,284
we do not see it as
consistent with gold III.

4651
02:58:03,284 --> 02:58:05,355
Test number one
has some problems.

4652
02:58:05,355 --> 02:58:06,810
It's likely that
never again will

4653
02:58:06,810 --> 02:58:08,459
a farmer be able
to own the land

4654
02:58:08,459 --> 02:58:09,870
if an expensive
house has been

4655
02:58:09,870 --> 02:58:11,400
put there to make

4656
02:58:11,400 --> 02:58:13,259
that land out of the
reach of the farmer

4657
02:58:13,259 --> 02:58:16,420
who would like to own
the land he farms.

4658
02:58:17,570 --> 02:58:20,460
Dropping down to the
middle of page two,

4659
02:58:20,460 --> 02:58:22,620
I'm sure you were
concerned about

4660
02:58:22,620 --> 02:58:23,820
not making it difficult

4661
02:58:23,820 --> 02:58:25,169
for young farmers
to start up.

4662
02:58:25,169 --> 02:58:26,430
Hector asked
the question of

4663
02:58:26,430 --> 02:58:27,854
some other people
who testify,

4664
02:58:27,854 --> 02:58:29,054
Do you know of,

4665
02:58:29,054 --> 02:58:30,809
of young farmers
who started out?

4666
02:58:30,809 --> 02:58:32,160
Yes. We have a neighbor

4667
02:58:32,160 --> 02:58:34,229
who has begun a
new operation,

4668
02:58:34,229 --> 02:58:35,729
purchased a piece
of land with

4669
02:58:35,729 --> 02:58:38,159
money he inherited
or from his in-laws,

4670
02:58:38,159 --> 02:58:40,889
has put up a
manufactured house on

4671
02:58:40,889 --> 02:58:44,040
that land and is doing
a viable operation.

4672
02:58:44,040 --> 02:58:46,019
That's the only
one and many,

4673
02:58:46,019 --> 02:58:49,830
many years of farming in

4674
02:58:49,830 --> 02:58:50,850
Benton County and being

4675
02:58:50,850 --> 02:58:51,630
familiar with farms in

4676
02:58:51,630 --> 02:58:53,864
Lin County also that
we can think of.

4677
02:58:53,864 --> 02:58:55,754
Some years ago,
I did a paper

4678
02:58:55,754 --> 02:58:57,720
on how young farmers
start farming.

4679
02:58:57,720 --> 02:58:59,609
And unfortunately
after two moves,

4680
02:58:59,609 --> 02:59:02,190
I have not been able
to resurrect that,

4681
02:59:02,190 --> 02:59:03,779
but I would be

4682
02:59:03,779 --> 02:59:05,579
happy to do a paper
for you when that some

4683
02:59:05,579 --> 02:59:07,769
time young farmers don't

4684
02:59:07,769 --> 02:59:08,849
get started farming by

4685
02:59:08,849 --> 02:59:10,410
putting their
money into house.

4686
02:59:10,410 --> 02:59:12,629
They start farming by

4687
02:59:12,629 --> 02:59:14,160
reading a piece
of land that

4688
02:59:14,160 --> 02:59:15,914
might have an old
farmhouse on.

4689
02:59:15,914 --> 02:59:18,794
They use a
temporary dwelling.

4690
02:59:18,794 --> 02:59:19,934
They live in town.

4691
02:59:19,934 --> 02:59:22,380
They do many kinds of
things to build up

4692
02:59:22,380 --> 02:59:23,909
some kind of equity

4693
02:59:23,909 --> 02:59:25,620
so they can
purchase them land.

4694
02:59:25,620 --> 02:59:27,180
And then when they
have enough equity

4695
02:59:27,180 --> 02:59:28,574
and enough extra growth,

4696
02:59:28,574 --> 02:59:30,060
I mean, extra net profit,

4697
02:59:30,060 --> 02:59:32,699
then they think about
building their house.

4698
02:59:32,699 --> 02:59:34,350
The TRC may have been

4699
02:59:34,350 --> 02:59:35,520
working out criteria for

4700
02:59:35,520 --> 02:59:38,039
the benefit of the
planters would be right.

4701
02:59:38,039 --> 02:59:39,420
I'm wrapping up who were

4702
02:59:39,420 --> 02:59:40,814
well represented
in the committee.

4703
02:59:40,814 --> 02:59:43,379
Jim piece is a
fine geographer.

4704
02:59:43,379 --> 02:59:45,975
Kevin birch is a
good Forrester.

4705
02:59:45,975 --> 02:59:48,899
Thorson and Weber
know about soils.

4706
02:59:48,899 --> 02:59:51,015
They do not, to
my knowledge,

4707
02:59:51,015 --> 02:59:52,290
have hands-on
experience in

4708
02:59:52,290 --> 02:59:54,705
farming and Weber didn't
know what a 1040,

4709
02:59:54,705 --> 02:59:56,505
somebody from the
Department of Ed.

4710
02:59:56,505 --> 02:59:57,509
They do not have

4711
02:59:57,509 --> 02:59:58,919
hands-on experience
in farming.

4712
02:59:58,919 --> 02:59:59,550
In spite of

4713
02:59:59,550 --> 03:00:00,989
their report that
committee members

4714
03:00:00,989 --> 03:00:03,359
have experience and
expertise in agriculture,

4715
03:00:03,359 --> 03:00:05,759
we need a strong
farm economy.

4716
03:00:05,759 --> 03:00:06,960
Farmers need to be able

4717
03:00:06,960 --> 03:00:08,039
to form without worrying

4718
03:00:08,039 --> 03:00:10,499
about even more new
non-farm neighbors.

4719
03:00:10,499 --> 03:00:12,044
Neighbors.

4720
03:00:12,044 --> 03:00:14,445
This commission has
the opportunity

4721
03:00:14,445 --> 03:00:15,449
and responsibility to make

4722
03:00:15,449 --> 03:00:17,039
a decision with
far-reaching impact

4723
03:00:17,039 --> 03:00:18,149
on growth management,

4724
03:00:18,149 --> 03:00:20,625
the Ag economy, and
future of young farmers.

4725
03:00:20,625 --> 03:00:21,479
We urge you to make

4726
03:00:21,479 --> 03:00:22,845
your decision on
behalf of Ag,

4727
03:00:22,845 --> 03:00:23,939
not on behalf
of the office

4728
03:00:23,939 --> 03:00:25,199
worker at the
planning department.

4729
03:00:25,199 --> 03:00:26,790
And incidentally,
I've high regard for

4730
03:00:26,790 --> 03:00:28,455
the skills of the
planners who are here.

4731
03:00:28,455 --> 03:00:29,670
They do a good job.

4732
03:00:29,670 --> 03:00:30,870
But keep in mind that

4733
03:00:30,870 --> 03:00:32,160
your job has to

4734
03:00:32,160 --> 03:00:33,599
do with commercial
agriculture,

4735
03:00:33,599 --> 03:00:36,179
not making the planning
departments jobs

4736
03:00:36,179 --> 03:00:38,459
that much easier.
Thank you very much.

4737
03:00:38,459 --> 03:00:40,359
Any questions?

4738
03:00:40,820 --> 03:00:43,140
Thanks, Lewis.

4739
03:00:43,140 --> 03:00:45,280
Peter Carnegie.

4740
03:00:51,620 --> 03:00:53,490
My name is Peter.

4741
03:00:53,490 --> 03:00:55,859
Can I live in Benton
County near Albany.

4742
03:00:55,859 --> 03:00:56,920
I'm also a member of

4743
03:00:56,920 --> 03:00:58,320
farm with my
father and I'm

4744
03:00:58,320 --> 03:00:59,399
also a member of the

4745
03:00:59,399 --> 03:01:00,809
Benton County
Planning Commission.

4746
03:01:00,809 --> 03:01:03,195
I'm not gonna say too
much other than that,

4747
03:01:03,195 --> 03:01:05,355
the report from the TRC,

4748
03:01:05,355 --> 03:01:06,720
they did a good
job when they were

4749
03:01:06,720 --> 03:01:09,089
working out their
objectives.

4750
03:01:09,089 --> 03:01:11,654
Protect the resource base.

4751
03:01:11,654 --> 03:01:15,120
For present and
future generations,

4752
03:01:15,120 --> 03:01:16,784
agriculture use.

4753
03:01:16,784 --> 03:01:18,389
Once they got beyond

4754
03:01:18,389 --> 03:01:19,770
that, they failed
miserably.

4755
03:01:19,770 --> 03:01:21,930
None of the three tests

4756
03:01:21,930 --> 03:01:23,909
do anything to
protect farm and

4757
03:01:23,909 --> 03:01:26,580
they're all ways to
get around those and

4758
03:01:26,580 --> 03:01:30,135
allowed non-farm
dwellings on farmland.

4759
03:01:30,135 --> 03:01:31,650
The one tool, if

4760
03:01:31,650 --> 03:01:34,125
the goal is to
protect farmland,

4761
03:01:34,125 --> 03:01:38,775
the 12 you have before
you is the regulation

4762
03:01:38,775 --> 03:01:41,175
of or the allowing
or not allowing

4763
03:01:41,175 --> 03:01:44,009
of houses on farmland.

4764
03:01:44,009 --> 03:01:45,840
And the only real
way you have

4765
03:01:45,840 --> 03:01:47,850
to protect farmland
here today

4766
03:01:47,850 --> 03:01:51,629
is to eliminate
the possibility of

4767
03:01:51,629 --> 03:01:56,069
more non-farm
housing on farmland.

4768
03:01:56,069 --> 03:01:58,124
That's all I'll say.

4769
03:01:58,124 --> 03:01:59,264
Okay, Hold on.

4770
03:01:59,264 --> 03:02:01,424
Any questions.

4771
03:02:01,424 --> 03:02:03,734
Thanks.

4772
03:02:03,734 --> 03:02:13,604
Ron Harris would see
Heinz, Kevin Henry.

4773
03:02:13,604 --> 03:02:15,224
There's no Y there.

4774
03:02:15,224 --> 03:02:17,219
Or you run Henry.

4775
03:02:17,219 --> 03:02:18,480
Yes.

4776
03:02:18,480 --> 03:02:20,280
I'm glad that's
and I'm going to

4777
03:02:20,280 --> 03:02:21,735
give Ron Henry's
testimony.

4778
03:02:21,735 --> 03:02:22,859
I'm Diana Gardner was

4779
03:02:22,859 --> 03:02:25,140
unaware of the practice at

4780
03:02:25,140 --> 03:02:27,299
this commission of
allowing someone else to

4781
03:02:27,299 --> 03:02:28,440
read written testimony

4782
03:02:28,440 --> 03:02:29,730
submitted by someone else.

4783
03:02:29,730 --> 03:02:31,184
So I'll do my best to get

4784
03:02:31,184 --> 03:02:32,925
Mr. Henry is
letter in 3 min.

4785
03:02:32,925 --> 03:02:33,749
He asked that it be read

4786
03:02:33,749 --> 03:02:36,000
aloud to the
commissioners.

4787
03:02:36,000 --> 03:02:37,559
Lcd see, I manage

4788
03:02:37,559 --> 03:02:38,610
the 1800s acres of

4789
03:02:38,610 --> 03:02:40,349
Tree Fruit Production
in Jackson County

4790
03:02:40,349 --> 03:02:42,570
comprising over 20
separate orchards

4791
03:02:42,570 --> 03:02:45,210
of 20 to 175 acres size.

4792
03:02:45,210 --> 03:02:47,220
And I'm unable to
travel today to

4793
03:02:47,220 --> 03:02:49,455
present testimony
in-person or appreciate.

4794
03:02:49,455 --> 03:02:50,849
Could you move the
mike over little

4795
03:02:50,849 --> 03:02:52,470
closer as you
read because you

4796
03:02:52,470 --> 03:02:54,270
have a copy of his stuff

4797
03:02:54,270 --> 03:02:56,474
in your Can you
hear me now?

4798
03:02:56,474 --> 03:02:58,619
And appreciate
you incorporating

4799
03:02:58,619 --> 03:03:00,644
this letter into the
record of proceedings.

4800
03:03:00,644 --> 03:03:02,474
And we already
have the letter.

4801
03:03:02,474 --> 03:03:04,649
Okay. While we'd really
fast them, okay,

4802
03:03:04,649 --> 03:03:06,630
I have divided 20 years
to the development

4803
03:03:06,630 --> 03:03:08,849
of these productive,
profitable orchards.

4804
03:03:08,849 --> 03:03:11,040
There have been many
changes over the span of

4805
03:03:11,040 --> 03:03:13,424
years which have challenged
our adaptability.

4806
03:03:13,424 --> 03:03:15,480
The recent surge
in population with

4807
03:03:15,480 --> 03:03:16,560
its negative impact on

4808
03:03:16,560 --> 03:03:18,449
our farming
operations raises

4809
03:03:18,449 --> 03:03:20,189
a critical strategic
business issue

4810
03:03:20,189 --> 03:03:21,300
for us as it

4811
03:03:21,300 --> 03:03:22,499
poses a real threat to

4812
03:03:22,499 --> 03:03:24,719
our continued operation
in this district.

4813
03:03:24,719 --> 03:03:26,250
Each week brings
a challenge

4814
03:03:26,250 --> 03:03:27,840
from new neighbors
who have settled

4815
03:03:27,840 --> 03:03:29,489
into rural areas and along

4816
03:03:29,489 --> 03:03:30,749
the periphery
of small valley

4817
03:03:30,749 --> 03:03:31,950
towns once easily

4818
03:03:31,950 --> 03:03:34,080
characterized his
rural now attracting

4819
03:03:34,080 --> 03:03:35,279
refugees from the problems

4820
03:03:35,279 --> 03:03:36,749
of urban life elsewhere.

4821
03:03:36,749 --> 03:03:38,850
These new arrivals
do not understand or

4822
03:03:38,850 --> 03:03:40,995
relate to agricultural
business needs.

4823
03:03:40,995 --> 03:03:42,390
When machines
run at night to

4824
03:03:42,390 --> 03:03:44,069
protect blossoms
from frost,

4825
03:03:44,069 --> 03:03:45,779
the use of agricultural
chemicals,

4826
03:03:45,779 --> 03:03:47,010
dust raised by movers

4827
03:03:47,010 --> 03:03:48,299
and cultivating equipment,

4828
03:03:48,299 --> 03:03:49,800
early morning
equipment use so

4829
03:03:49,800 --> 03:03:51,300
as to beat the
heat of the day.

4830
03:03:51,300 --> 03:03:53,040
These are practices which

4831
03:03:53,040 --> 03:03:54,374
they often object to.

4832
03:03:54,374 --> 03:03:56,759
In addition, increased
vandalism, trespass,

4833
03:03:56,759 --> 03:03:58,230
and brazen theft have us

4834
03:03:58,230 --> 03:04:00,239
behaving as a work
group under siege?

4835
03:04:00,239 --> 03:04:02,700
Our neighbor relations
work, once pleasant,

4836
03:04:02,700 --> 03:04:05,100
have become increasingly
contentious and jaws

4837
03:04:05,100 --> 03:04:06,750
is from our farm
management duties.

4838
03:04:06,750 --> 03:04:08,220
I have had an
attorney attending to

4839
03:04:08,220 --> 03:04:09,659
border conflict
issues almost

4840
03:04:09,659 --> 03:04:11,595
constantly for the
past two years.

4841
03:04:11,595 --> 03:04:14,790
I do not see this
changing, more worrisome.

4842
03:04:14,790 --> 03:04:16,140
I did not see
that the Jackson

4843
03:04:16,140 --> 03:04:18,254
County Planning and
Development Department

4844
03:04:18,254 --> 03:04:20,310
is consistently
able to attend to

4845
03:04:20,310 --> 03:04:21,330
enforcement at
the letter and

4846
03:04:21,330 --> 03:04:22,590
spirit of ordinances,

4847
03:04:22,590 --> 03:04:23,369
which are designed to

4848
03:04:23,369 --> 03:04:25,230
protect agriculture
from sprawl.

4849
03:04:25,230 --> 03:04:27,000
Municipalities
often do not become

4850
03:04:27,000 --> 03:04:28,109
involved in ag issues

4851
03:04:28,109 --> 03:04:29,459
and their urban
boundaries.

4852
03:04:29,459 --> 03:04:31,950
We are in an ever vigilant
defensive posture.

4853
03:04:31,950 --> 03:04:34,290
They increasingly
well-organized actions of

4854
03:04:34,290 --> 03:04:35,309
local real estate and

4855
03:04:35,309 --> 03:04:37,050
building interests
energized by

4856
03:04:37,050 --> 03:04:38,279
the huge market potential

4857
03:04:38,279 --> 03:04:40,259
created by the influx
of immigrants,

4858
03:04:40,259 --> 03:04:41,580
appears to be following

4859
03:04:41,580 --> 03:04:42,930
the same pattern which has

4860
03:04:42,930 --> 03:04:44,429
occurred in other
areas where

4861
03:04:44,429 --> 03:04:46,229
agriculture has
met its demise.

4862
03:04:46,229 --> 03:04:47,460
The rapid new retail

4863
03:04:47,460 --> 03:04:48,780
mall development foretells

4864
03:04:48,780 --> 03:04:49,860
plans to accommodate a

4865
03:04:49,860 --> 03:04:51,435
huge population influx,

4866
03:04:51,435 --> 03:04:53,714
which is generally
described as inevitable.

4867
03:04:53,714 --> 03:04:55,604
We must appeal to
the commission

4868
03:04:55,604 --> 03:04:56,789
is we have to our county

4869
03:04:56,789 --> 03:04:58,590
elected officials
to assist

4870
03:04:58,590 --> 03:05:00,135
in our continued
operation.

4871
03:05:00,135 --> 03:05:01,440
And so our contribution to

4872
03:05:01,440 --> 03:05:02,955
the local and
state economy.

4873
03:05:02,955 --> 03:05:04,440
Review of the
rules which define

4874
03:05:04,440 --> 03:05:06,330
the protections of
Goal three should be

4875
03:05:06,330 --> 03:05:08,280
viewed against the
backdrop of the history of

4876
03:05:08,280 --> 03:05:10,559
once bountiful
agricultural areas which

4877
03:05:10,559 --> 03:05:13,020
have been choked out
incrementally over time,

4878
03:05:13,020 --> 03:05:14,610
preceded by relaxation of

4879
03:05:14,610 --> 03:05:16,800
statutory protection
and the loosening

4880
03:05:16,800 --> 03:05:19,004
or non-enforcement
of local ordinances.

4881
03:05:19,004 --> 03:05:20,519
I would like to
address the matter of

4882
03:05:20,519 --> 03:05:21,629
farmed dwellings by citing

4883
03:05:21,629 --> 03:05:23,489
our recent experiences.

4884
03:05:23,489 --> 03:05:25,349
One means of
allowing residential

4885
03:05:25,349 --> 03:05:26,579
sprawl is the allowance

4886
03:05:26,579 --> 03:05:28,230
of non-pharm residential
construction

4887
03:05:28,230 --> 03:05:29,459
or resource lands.

4888
03:05:29,459 --> 03:05:31,710
Many of the old farmsteads
where parceled on

4889
03:05:31,710 --> 03:05:33,120
paper prior to the
effective date

4890
03:05:33,120 --> 03:05:34,680
of statewide
land-use planning.

4891
03:05:34,680 --> 03:05:35,909
Many local farms have

4892
03:05:35,909 --> 03:05:37,530
multiple parcels
that only the

4893
03:05:37,530 --> 03:05:39,060
original foreign
buildings and a single

4894
03:05:39,060 --> 03:05:41,100
undifferentiated from
you as a parent.

4895
03:05:41,100 --> 03:05:42,720
I urge you to
read the rest of

4896
03:05:42,720 --> 03:05:43,559
the letter which talks

4897
03:05:43,559 --> 03:05:44,700
about the ongoing
problems in

4898
03:05:44,700 --> 03:05:46,289
Jackson County and

4899
03:05:46,289 --> 03:05:48,809
the grave importance
of adopting

4900
03:05:48,809 --> 03:05:51,390
a farm dwelling standard
that identifies

4901
03:05:51,390 --> 03:05:53,145
commercial farms
rather than

4902
03:05:53,145 --> 03:05:55,779
non Farms. Thank you.

4903
03:05:57,920 --> 03:05:59,820
Questions.

4904
03:05:59,820 --> 03:06:01,570
Thank you.

4905
03:06:01,730 --> 03:06:06,489
Thank you. Ron David Nash.

4906
03:06:14,890 --> 03:06:17,285
I am Dave Van Ash.

4907
03:06:17,285 --> 03:06:18,590
I'm from
Washington County.

4908
03:06:18,590 --> 03:06:19,789
I'm a member of
Washington County

4909
03:06:19,789 --> 03:06:21,769
Farm Bureau and also
the wheat League.

4910
03:06:21,769 --> 03:06:23,810
I'm a fourth
generation farmer

4911
03:06:23,810 --> 03:06:25,235
in Washington County.

4912
03:06:25,235 --> 03:06:26,900
My farm consists of about

4913
03:06:26,900 --> 03:06:29,540
1,775 acres of grain,

4914
03:06:29,540 --> 03:06:31,805
grass seed and
clover seed.

4915
03:06:31,805 --> 03:06:34,969
We lease from about 30
different landlords or

4916
03:06:34,969 --> 03:06:38,389
average tax lot size
is about 43 acres.

4917
03:06:38,389 --> 03:06:42,514
Smallest is five,
the largest is 140.

4918
03:06:42,514 --> 03:06:43,969
According to

4919
03:06:43,969 --> 03:06:46,760
Washington County
Planning Department,

4920
03:06:46,760 --> 03:06:49,519
the average
grain grass seed

4921
03:06:49,519 --> 03:06:51,710
and then clover
seed farm in

4922
03:06:51,710 --> 03:06:54,684
Washington County
has about 450 acres.

4923
03:06:54,684 --> 03:06:56,880
I've kinda average that at

4924
03:06:56,880 --> 03:06:58,679
approximately
$500 an acre.

4925
03:06:58,679 --> 03:07:01,784
So the average farm size

4926
03:07:01,784 --> 03:07:05,955
is about $225,000
gross income per year.

4927
03:07:05,955 --> 03:07:07,559
So when I hear
these numbers of

4928
03:07:07,559 --> 03:07:10,245
10.20 thousand
is minimums,

4929
03:07:10,245 --> 03:07:12,239
I personally think
they're ridiculous.

4930
03:07:12,239 --> 03:07:14,520
You can't make a
living on a ten or

4931
03:07:14,520 --> 03:07:17,550
$20,000 of gross
income farm.

4932
03:07:17,550 --> 03:07:21,060
It just I mean,
it doesn't exist.

4933
03:07:21,060 --> 03:07:22,290
We're not talking
about net income,

4934
03:07:22,290 --> 03:07:23,924
we're talking about gross.

4935
03:07:23,924 --> 03:07:26,760
I farm in about
15 mile radius.

4936
03:07:26,760 --> 03:07:27,960
My biggest problem in

4937
03:07:27,960 --> 03:07:29,789
Washington County
is traffic,

4938
03:07:29,789 --> 03:07:31,739
commuter traffic
from one city

4939
03:07:31,739 --> 03:07:33,915
to another, or commuter,

4940
03:07:33,915 --> 03:07:35,339
a lot of commuter
traffic from

4941
03:07:35,339 --> 03:07:38,729
non-farm dwellings
that are located in

4942
03:07:38,729 --> 03:07:41,190
the US use zone
and in the forests

4943
03:07:41,190 --> 03:07:44,355
on my county farmers,

4944
03:07:44,355 --> 03:07:46,590
farmers and foresters
are not building

4945
03:07:46,590 --> 03:07:49,499
new homes except for
replacement dwellings.

4946
03:07:49,499 --> 03:07:50,910
Urban commuters

4947
03:07:50,910 --> 03:07:51,900
are the ones that
are building

4948
03:07:51,900 --> 03:07:54,269
new homes, non-farm
dwellings.

4949
03:07:54,269 --> 03:07:55,440
Some of them are called

4950
03:07:55,440 --> 03:07:56,639
Farm dwellings because of

4951
03:07:56,639 --> 03:07:59,684
the, the minimum criteria.

4952
03:07:59,684 --> 03:08:00,300
They go out and they

4953
03:08:00,300 --> 03:08:02,610
plant three acres
of strawberries or

4954
03:08:02,610 --> 03:08:03,989
peach trees or
whatever it takes

4955
03:08:03,989 --> 03:08:07,199
to make the minimum
income test.

4956
03:08:07,199 --> 03:08:09,825
I agree with
Mr. not singers

4957
03:08:09,825 --> 03:08:12,389
testimony and George
pews testimony.

4958
03:08:12,389 --> 03:08:13,529
They were grass
seed farmers

4959
03:08:13,529 --> 03:08:15,599
and Lynn County,
I believe.

4960
03:08:15,599 --> 03:08:19,425
And I support cliff
Carnegie's concept,

4961
03:08:19,425 --> 03:08:23,835
The Schedule F 1040
income tax form.

4962
03:08:23,835 --> 03:08:25,710
And I'm also convinced

4963
03:08:25,710 --> 03:08:26,999
that unless somebody can

4964
03:08:26,999 --> 03:08:28,560
convince me that
Washington County

4965
03:08:28,560 --> 03:08:30,539
has no secondary land,

4966
03:08:30,539 --> 03:08:33,399
that's all of my
testimony. Thank you.

4967
03:08:33,410 --> 03:08:36,074
Questions if Dave?

4968
03:08:36,074 --> 03:08:38,745
Dave, do you Mr. Chairman?

4969
03:08:38,745 --> 03:08:39,359
Sure.

4970
03:08:39,359 --> 03:08:42,329
Do you do you feel the
Washington County is

4971
03:08:42,329 --> 03:08:47,139
that Whitley protecting
Ag lands now,

4972
03:08:47,630 --> 03:08:50,250
I see a lot of
non-pharm what

4973
03:08:50,250 --> 03:08:52,379
I consider
non-farm dwellings

4974
03:08:52,379 --> 03:08:55,469
on smaller
parcels that are

4975
03:08:55,469 --> 03:08:57,030
still you look around

4976
03:08:57,030 --> 03:09:00,089
on not necessarily
on the valley floor,

4977
03:09:00,089 --> 03:09:03,769
but on the on the
transition zone,

4978
03:09:03,769 --> 03:09:04,910
I guess as I
would call it,

4979
03:09:04,910 --> 03:09:06,140
between the valley floor

4980
03:09:06,140 --> 03:09:08,900
and in areas like
we're Don Logan,

4981
03:09:08,900 --> 03:09:10,940
who testified
earlier live.

4982
03:09:10,940 --> 03:09:12,740
And there's still a lot of

4983
03:09:12,740 --> 03:09:14,419
parcels on five acres

4984
03:09:14,419 --> 03:09:17,419
or five acres are

4985
03:09:17,419 --> 03:09:20,149
good farm or fora
for us parcels.

4986
03:09:20,149 --> 03:09:21,650
But I don't know
whether it's because of

4987
03:09:21,650 --> 03:09:24,019
their size or or
what happens there.

4988
03:09:24,019 --> 03:09:25,430
But you see the

4989
03:09:25,430 --> 03:09:28,429
$500,000 dwelling
going up every day?

4990
03:09:28,429 --> 03:09:29,930
I don't know how many of

4991
03:09:29,930 --> 03:09:31,145
those sites are left,

4992
03:09:31,145 --> 03:09:32,540
but there's been a lot of

4993
03:09:32,540 --> 03:09:35,030
them built in the
last five years.

4994
03:09:35,030 --> 03:09:38,390
But it could
Washington County

4995
03:09:38,390 --> 03:09:40,324
is a marginal lands county

4996
03:09:40,324 --> 03:09:46,450
be from the high value
farmland provisions?

4997
03:09:46,850 --> 03:09:49,185
First of all, I
don't understand

4998
03:09:49,185 --> 03:09:51,675
the marginal the secondary
lands provision.

4999
03:09:51,675 --> 03:09:55,050
I personally don't
see any I mean,

5000
03:09:55,050 --> 03:09:56,519
I think I've heard

5001
03:09:56,519 --> 03:09:57,780
other counties say
that there are some

5002
03:09:57,780 --> 03:09:59,130
of the most productive
in the world.

5003
03:09:59,130 --> 03:10:00,540
In Washington
County as farmers,

5004
03:10:00,540 --> 03:10:02,024
we believe we own

5005
03:10:02,024 --> 03:10:03,930
the most productive
land in the world.

5006
03:10:03,930 --> 03:10:05,579
That doesn't make any
difference whether it's

5007
03:10:05,579 --> 03:10:08,940
1.2 and it's class 1.2
on the valley floor.

5008
03:10:08,940 --> 03:10:10,890
Or whether it's class

5009
03:10:10,890 --> 03:10:12,689
five or six in

5010
03:10:12,689 --> 03:10:13,920
the mountains because you

5011
03:10:13,920 --> 03:10:15,299
grow good timber up there.

5012
03:10:15,299 --> 03:10:18,269
So from a farmer's
perspective,

5013
03:10:18,269 --> 03:10:21,224
I mean, it may
not be classics.

5014
03:10:21,224 --> 03:10:23,039
Timur ground may not
be as productive

5015
03:10:23,039 --> 03:10:26,415
as Barry ground on
the valley floor.

5016
03:10:26,415 --> 03:10:27,210
But because of

5017
03:10:27,210 --> 03:10:28,679
the rainfall in
Washington County,

5018
03:10:28,679 --> 03:10:31,094
which is 35 to
40 " a year.

5019
03:10:31,094 --> 03:10:34,359
It's it's all
very productive.

5020
03:10:37,070 --> 03:10:39,540
Thank you. Thank you.

5021
03:10:39,540 --> 03:10:46,289
Roger Hamlin. Oh, Roger

5022
03:10:46,289 --> 03:10:48,179
were up here instead
of down there

5023
03:10:48,179 --> 03:10:51,705
and I spent too many
years up there.

5024
03:10:51,705 --> 03:10:53,710
I don't want this job.

5025
03:10:54,740 --> 03:10:57,899
I wasn't going to speak,

5026
03:10:57,899 --> 03:10:59,310
but I think just
a few comments

5027
03:10:59,310 --> 03:11:01,470
about some things
that have come up.

5028
03:11:01,470 --> 03:11:04,109
Deja vu sitting
back there.

5029
03:11:04,109 --> 03:11:06,465
Nothing new.
Same old stuff.

5030
03:11:06,465 --> 03:11:08,610
It's just all
these same issues,

5031
03:11:08,610 --> 03:11:11,250
same numbers, same things.

5032
03:11:11,250 --> 03:11:12,285
We always listen to.

5033
03:11:12,285 --> 03:11:13,380
Everybody's got
an argument

5034
03:11:13,380 --> 03:11:14,399
whether it should
be higher,

5035
03:11:14,399 --> 03:11:16,499
should be lower,
should be wider,

5036
03:11:16,499 --> 03:11:17,370
should be longer,
it should

5037
03:11:17,370 --> 03:11:18,359
be more, should be less.

5038
03:11:18,359 --> 03:11:19,545
All this kinda stuff.

5039
03:11:19,545 --> 03:11:21,810
But and I tackle

5040
03:11:21,810 --> 03:11:23,189
these for years
and years too.

5041
03:11:23,189 --> 03:11:24,389
And I know what
you're going

5042
03:11:24,389 --> 03:11:25,560
through and there's
just no answer.

5043
03:11:25,560 --> 03:11:26,459
There is no right number,

5044
03:11:26,459 --> 03:11:27,540
there's no right size,

5045
03:11:27,540 --> 03:11:28,649
there's no write anything.

5046
03:11:28,649 --> 03:11:30,030
And the other thing is,

5047
03:11:30,030 --> 03:11:31,320
and John and I have argued

5048
03:11:31,320 --> 03:11:32,370
for this for years,

5049
03:11:32,370 --> 03:11:33,809
is you can't compare
the east side

5050
03:11:33,809 --> 03:11:34,259
of the mountain, the

5051
03:11:34,259 --> 03:11:34,979
west side of the mountain.

5052
03:11:34,979 --> 03:11:37,289
They're not the same
thing. Like it or not.

5053
03:11:37,289 --> 03:11:39,224
That's just the way
it is, You know.

5054
03:11:39,224 --> 03:11:41,999
And and I guess I

5055
03:11:41,999 --> 03:11:45,270
described land uses
just like getting aids.

5056
03:11:45,270 --> 03:11:46,619
Nobody ever gets over

5057
03:11:46,619 --> 03:11:47,490
the recovery sram and

5058
03:11:47,490 --> 03:11:48,660
everybody's going
to die from it.

5059
03:11:48,660 --> 03:11:50,234
You know, effort,
land uses.

5060
03:11:50,234 --> 03:11:52,559
And I think this is
a good thing about

5061
03:11:52,559 --> 03:11:55,665
what this issue is here.

5062
03:11:55,665 --> 03:11:57,630
I've come to conclusion.

5063
03:11:57,630 --> 03:11:58,920
When I went on
the commission,

5064
03:11:58,920 --> 03:12:00,870
I knew exactly what
commercial farmland

5065
03:12:00,870 --> 03:12:01,919
is about.

5066
03:12:01,919 --> 03:12:03,794
A commercial farm
was when I went off,

5067
03:12:03,794 --> 03:12:05,415
I knew I didn't
know what it was.

5068
03:12:05,415 --> 03:12:06,629
And I've come
to a conclusion

5069
03:12:06,629 --> 03:12:07,740
now after all these years,

5070
03:12:07,740 --> 03:12:09,404
we'd never going
to define it.

5071
03:12:09,404 --> 03:12:12,135
And I think it's wise
to give up on it.

5072
03:12:12,135 --> 03:12:13,860
So I don't know how
to solve the problem,

5073
03:12:13,860 --> 03:12:15,450
but I was reading through

5074
03:12:15,450 --> 03:12:17,759
the 990s census
and some things

5075
03:12:17,759 --> 03:12:19,890
came out of that night.

5076
03:12:19,890 --> 03:12:20,669
Who senses I want to

5077
03:12:20,669 --> 03:12:21,509
share with you
for a minute.

5078
03:12:21,509 --> 03:12:22,589
I think that may give you

5079
03:12:22,589 --> 03:12:24,990
another perspective to
look at this problem.

5080
03:12:24,990 --> 03:12:28,769
That is at 25% of
the farms operated

5081
03:12:28,769 --> 03:12:32,969
as commercial,
over $50,000.

5082
03:12:32,969 --> 03:12:34,710
In other words,
only 25% of

5083
03:12:34,710 --> 03:12:36,600
those were operated
as commercial.

5084
03:12:36,600 --> 03:12:39,039
And of this 25,

5085
03:12:39,039 --> 03:12:42,525
50% of these
commercial farms

5086
03:12:42,525 --> 03:12:46,785
earned most of their
money off the farm.

5087
03:12:46,785 --> 03:12:49,169
Of the commercial
farms over

5088
03:12:49,169 --> 03:12:52,110
250,000 in sales in 1990

5089
03:12:52,110 --> 03:12:55,304
to 50% of their income

5090
03:12:55,304 --> 03:12:58,019
came from outside
of the farm.

5091
03:12:58,019 --> 03:13:01,859
Farms, grossing
50,000 or less.

5092
03:13:01,859 --> 03:13:06,075
In 1992, lost an
average of $817 an

5093
03:13:06,075 --> 03:13:09,330
acre and receive 80% of

5094
03:13:09,330 --> 03:13:12,599
their income from
off-farm source.

5095
03:13:12,599 --> 03:13:15,165
The average
commercial farm

5096
03:13:15,165 --> 03:13:20,114
had an investment
of $230,626.

5097
03:13:20,114 --> 03:13:24,509
However, 40% of
these incomes from

5098
03:13:24,509 --> 03:13:25,799
these people
operating in these

5099
03:13:25,799 --> 03:13:29,820
$230,626 investments,

5100
03:13:29,820 --> 03:13:31,680
40% of these received

5101
03:13:31,680 --> 03:13:34,484
an income below
the poverty line.

5102
03:13:34,484 --> 03:13:40,019
The summary of this
is it only 12.5% of

5103
03:13:40,019 --> 03:13:42,930
the total farms
under $50,000 in

5104
03:13:42,930 --> 03:13:46,559
gross sales lived
off farm incomes,

5105
03:13:46,559 --> 03:13:49,574
and 40% of those people

5106
03:13:49,574 --> 03:13:51,705
returned to the operator.

5107
03:13:51,705 --> 03:13:54,555
Incomes below the
poverty line.

5108
03:13:54,555 --> 03:13:57,209
Only 50% of the farms,

5109
03:13:57,209 --> 03:13:59,519
over 250,000 were able to

5110
03:13:59,519 --> 03:14:03,000
survive from farm income.

5111
03:14:03,000 --> 03:14:07,859
So that to me was
very shocking.

5112
03:14:07,859 --> 03:14:09,780
You put that together

5113
03:14:09,780 --> 03:14:11,189
with what I think
it looks like

5114
03:14:11,189 --> 03:14:12,900
the only workable
proposal that

5115
03:14:12,900 --> 03:14:15,465
has a chance and that's
cliffs proposal.

5116
03:14:15,465 --> 03:14:17,310
Because then you're really

5117
03:14:17,310 --> 03:14:19,109
talking about what
we're talking about.

5118
03:14:19,109 --> 03:14:20,909
That's a farm related

5119
03:14:20,909 --> 03:14:23,549
dwelling in a
farm operation.

5120
03:14:23,549 --> 03:14:26,459
If the person is
one of these few,

5121
03:14:26,459 --> 03:14:28,949
12.5% that can really

5122
03:14:28,949 --> 03:14:31,710
take the resource
and make it work.

5123
03:14:31,710 --> 03:14:33,509
And then they need

5124
03:14:33,509 --> 03:14:36,734
a form home to
continue to do this.

5125
03:14:36,734 --> 03:14:38,549
But if they're not
really out there

5126
03:14:38,549 --> 03:14:40,664
to accentuate
that resource,

5127
03:14:40,664 --> 03:14:42,239
then I don t
think it's really

5128
03:14:42,239 --> 03:14:44,009
necessary and
should be allowed.

5129
03:14:44,009 --> 03:14:46,695
Because we got to
remember in this state,

5130
03:14:46,695 --> 03:14:51,599
30% of the jobs in this
state rely on that,

5131
03:14:51,599 --> 03:14:55,769
12.5% of that 25% that

5132
03:14:55,769 --> 03:14:57,209
are making this
resource go

5133
03:14:57,209 --> 03:14:58,844
and producing
these products.

5134
03:14:58,844 --> 03:15:02,205
And another 20% of our
jobs in this state

5135
03:15:02,205 --> 03:15:04,799
indirectly rely
on the production

5136
03:15:04,799 --> 03:15:07,349
of that agricultural
resource.

5137
03:15:07,349 --> 03:15:08,970
I don't know how many
people know that

5138
03:15:08,970 --> 03:15:10,860
half of the jobs
and the port of

5139
03:15:10,860 --> 03:15:12,285
Portland or dependent

5140
03:15:12,285 --> 03:15:15,369
on commercial
agriculture production.

5141
03:15:15,710 --> 03:15:18,449
That's really all
I have to say.

5142
03:15:18,449 --> 03:15:20,354
I'll entertain
any questions

5143
03:15:20,354 --> 03:15:22,305
any questions from
anybody but John?

5144
03:15:22,305 --> 03:15:24,224
Yeah, No, John does.

5145
03:15:24,224 --> 03:15:26,759
Not gonna get to ask
a question here.

5146
03:15:26,759 --> 03:15:27,330
I got enough.

5147
03:15:27,330 --> 03:15:28,680
Colon has only condition

5148
03:15:28,680 --> 03:15:30,884
that's trying to
beat up on it.

5149
03:15:30,884 --> 03:15:31,889
Oh, no, I wasn't either.

5150
03:15:31,889 --> 03:15:33,939
You just didn't
understand?

5151
03:15:34,310 --> 03:15:37,930
I understood. Do well.

5152
03:15:38,120 --> 03:15:42,524
The understanding?
Yep. Any questions?

5153
03:15:42,524 --> 03:15:44,820
Have you have
you got any land

5154
03:15:44,820 --> 03:15:48,194
in Washington County
or Lane County? No.

5155
03:15:48,194 --> 03:15:50,100
You don't? No. I think I

5156
03:15:50,100 --> 03:15:50,699
don't have to answer

5157
03:15:50,699 --> 03:15:53,024
your questions on
marginal land.

5158
03:15:53,024 --> 03:15:54,780
I had to live with

5159
03:15:54,780 --> 03:15:55,890
that sucker for a
number of years.

5160
03:15:55,890 --> 03:15:58,604
I know what you know
all about that.

5161
03:15:58,604 --> 03:16:00,840
I don't have any
land and worser link

5162
03:16:00,840 --> 03:16:08,924
any problem.

5163
03:16:08,924 --> 03:16:11,940
Nice to say, Residence be

5164
03:16:11,940 --> 03:16:14,910
only available
or true farmers.

5165
03:16:14,910 --> 03:16:15,930
But the big
question is, how

5166
03:16:15,930 --> 03:16:17,010
do we do identify him?

5167
03:16:17,010 --> 03:16:18,060
I think that's well,

5168
03:16:18,060 --> 03:16:19,904
I think this solution

5169
03:16:19,904 --> 03:16:22,005
come up with this is
the best one I've seen.

5170
03:16:22,005 --> 03:16:23,159
That's the best
one you have.

5171
03:16:23,159 --> 03:16:24,300
Okay, that's realistic.

5172
03:16:24,300 --> 03:16:26,730
It's simple and
it's objective and

5173
03:16:26,730 --> 03:16:27,929
the economy is the one

5174
03:16:27,929 --> 03:16:29,669
that's going to
drive that issue.

5175
03:16:29,669 --> 03:16:31,620
Basically, I'm
interestingly enough,

5176
03:16:31,620 --> 03:16:33,090
what cliffs ends up being

5177
03:16:33,090 --> 03:16:34,980
is that you'd have to
have about a third of

5178
03:16:34,980 --> 03:16:36,704
your total gross income

5179
03:16:36,704 --> 03:16:39,029
coming from the
farm to afford it.

5180
03:16:39,029 --> 03:16:40,319
But you know, the
other thing is,

5181
03:16:40,319 --> 03:16:42,345
is the Communist state.

5182
03:16:42,345 --> 03:16:45,060
The economy of the
state can't survive on

5183
03:16:45,060 --> 03:16:47,835
farmers losing
$117 a year.

5184
03:16:47,835 --> 03:16:50,340
They can't survive
on people.

5185
03:16:50,340 --> 03:16:52,020
You know, you can't expect

5186
03:16:52,020 --> 03:16:53,160
an operator of a farm is

5187
03:16:53,160 --> 03:16:54,645
living below the
poverty line.

5188
03:16:54,645 --> 03:16:56,175
To be a continuing thing.

5189
03:16:56,175 --> 03:16:58,139
It's important
to this state to

5190
03:16:58,139 --> 03:17:00,210
have the preservation
of the continuation

5191
03:17:00,210 --> 03:17:02,159
of commercial
agricultural production

5192
03:17:02,159 --> 03:17:02,910
is the amount of

5193
03:17:02,910 --> 03:17:04,230
jobs in the amount of

5194
03:17:04,230 --> 03:17:06,960
people who rely on that
in this statement,

5195
03:17:06,960 --> 03:17:09,089
Rogers, it seems to me

5196
03:17:09,089 --> 03:17:12,269
that but you've
really pointed out is

5197
03:17:12,269 --> 03:17:13,949
that a lot of our
production is not coming

5198
03:17:13,949 --> 03:17:16,080
from full-time
farmers that

5199
03:17:16,080 --> 03:17:17,610
are early making
the money off that

5200
03:17:17,610 --> 03:17:19,289
it's the wife has
the job off the farm

5201
03:17:19,289 --> 03:17:21,090
or people are subsidizing

5202
03:17:21,090 --> 03:17:23,310
it by what they do
and it really isn't.

5203
03:17:23,310 --> 03:17:25,980
A lot of that production
is coming from

5204
03:17:25,980 --> 03:17:28,500
people that are subsidizing
their farm thing.

5205
03:17:28,500 --> 03:17:30,015
And that's important.

5206
03:17:30,015 --> 03:17:32,730
If I read what
you're telling us.

5207
03:17:32,730 --> 03:17:35,160
As long as they have
enough disposable income

5208
03:17:35,160 --> 03:17:36,210
to be able to
throw it away on

5209
03:17:36,210 --> 03:17:37,424
a farm operation.

5210
03:17:37,424 --> 03:17:38,880
Well, right. They either

5211
03:17:38,880 --> 03:17:40,199
have to have made
it somewhere else

5212
03:17:40,199 --> 03:17:42,179
or they have to be
married it or the wife

5213
03:17:42,179 --> 03:17:44,459
works offer or
investments.

5214
03:17:44,459 --> 03:17:46,560
Whatever, what happens
when the day comes and

5215
03:17:46,560 --> 03:17:48,510
we have this
non-compatible formulas

5216
03:17:48,510 --> 03:17:50,279
out there and that
disposable income is not

5217
03:17:50,279 --> 03:17:52,889
adequate to continue to
subsidize that form,

5218
03:17:52,889 --> 03:17:55,079
then what happens is
that the ability of

5219
03:17:55,079 --> 03:17:56,160
that resource to be

5220
03:17:56,160 --> 03:17:57,390
a productive commercial

5221
03:17:57,390 --> 03:17:59,249
agricultural operation.

5222
03:17:59,249 --> 03:18:01,109
Well, somebody else comes

5223
03:18:01,109 --> 03:18:03,149
along and we, fortunately,

5224
03:18:03,149 --> 03:18:04,410
I guess there are a
lot of these people

5225
03:18:04,410 --> 03:18:05,549
that would like to
invest money in

5226
03:18:05,549 --> 03:18:07,589
farms and never get
a pen exactly what

5227
03:18:07,589 --> 03:18:08,520
we'd been doing it to

5228
03:18:08,520 --> 03:18:09,659
some extent and another,

5229
03:18:09,659 --> 03:18:10,830
but calling in
another way.

5230
03:18:10,830 --> 03:18:11,969
But if we continue
to do this

5231
03:18:11,969 --> 03:18:13,200
and create more and

5232
03:18:13,200 --> 03:18:16,034
more of these non-compatible
uses out there.

5233
03:18:16,034 --> 03:18:17,100
How much longer is

5234
03:18:17,100 --> 03:18:18,359
a farm going to be
able to continue,

5235
03:18:18,359 --> 03:18:19,649
continue with those
kind of problems.

5236
03:18:19,649 --> 03:18:20,339
I mean, I could go into

5237
03:18:20,339 --> 03:18:21,059
all the horror stories,

5238
03:18:21,059 --> 03:18:22,410
all the problems I've
had over the years with

5239
03:18:22,410 --> 03:18:25,929
non-compatible uses.
We all know this.

5240
03:18:26,450 --> 03:18:29,339
Let me ask you a
policy question.

5241
03:18:29,339 --> 03:18:30,630
Given your experience,

5242
03:18:30,630 --> 03:18:33,719
should dwellings
be tied to

5243
03:18:33,719 --> 03:18:37,199
large income
producing net income

5244
03:18:37,199 --> 03:18:40,754
producing farm operations?

5245
03:18:40,754 --> 03:18:42,630
Or should
dwellings be tied

5246
03:18:42,630 --> 03:18:47,384
to typical farm
operations for an area?

5247
03:18:47,384 --> 03:18:49,829
Recognizing that there's
different kinds of

5248
03:18:49,829 --> 03:18:52,740
agriculture in different
parts of the state,

5249
03:18:52,740 --> 03:18:54,929
should it be tied to
the large farms that

5250
03:18:54,929 --> 03:18:57,495
produce high levels
of net income?

5251
03:18:57,495 --> 03:18:58,994
Or should it be
tied to people like

5252
03:18:58,994 --> 03:19:02,355
typical agriculture
in an area? And why?

5253
03:19:02,355 --> 03:19:04,650
It should be tied
to people that can

5254
03:19:04,650 --> 03:19:07,079
operate an operation in

5255
03:19:07,079 --> 03:19:08,969
a profitable way and as

5256
03:19:08,969 --> 03:19:11,250
a viable interest and

5257
03:19:11,250 --> 03:19:13,470
is a viable operation
down the road.

5258
03:19:13,470 --> 03:19:16,995
Because we're
kidding ourselves.

5259
03:19:16,995 --> 03:19:19,260
If you think you
can continue

5260
03:19:19,260 --> 03:19:22,019
in a subsidized kind of
a situation forever,

5261
03:19:22,019 --> 03:19:25,830
which somebody is
subsidizing that at farm.

5262
03:19:25,830 --> 03:19:27,690
If we're really interested

5263
03:19:27,690 --> 03:19:29,880
in this industry
in the state,

5264
03:19:29,880 --> 03:19:31,290
are going to have to think

5265
03:19:31,290 --> 03:19:33,120
about the nature
of the thing.

5266
03:19:33,120 --> 03:19:34,859
And these figures bear

5267
03:19:34,859 --> 03:19:36,210
out what's happened in

5268
03:19:36,210 --> 03:19:37,529
agriculture
five years ago.

5269
03:19:37,529 --> 03:19:39,510
These kind of figures
were unthinkable.

5270
03:19:39,510 --> 03:19:41,385
If a node five years,

5271
03:19:41,385 --> 03:19:43,859
we continue to have to
go down the road to

5272
03:19:43,859 --> 03:19:45,180
compete with foreign
countries and

5273
03:19:45,180 --> 03:19:46,680
the production of
agriculture commodities.

5274
03:19:46,680 --> 03:19:48,480
This may be this
much worse.

5275
03:19:48,480 --> 03:19:50,159
My point is we're
going to have

5276
03:19:50,159 --> 03:19:56,070
to continue to
enhance and to

5277
03:19:56,070 --> 03:19:57,704
continue to

5278
03:19:57,704 --> 03:20:03,060
promote the
agricultural operations

5279
03:20:03,060 --> 03:20:04,560
that can do it and

5280
03:20:04,560 --> 03:20:06,600
be profitable
at and viable.

5281
03:20:06,600 --> 03:20:08,669
And put ourselves
into thinking

5282
03:20:08,669 --> 03:20:09,990
that these ones that

5283
03:20:09,990 --> 03:20:11,354
lose money are
going to continue.

5284
03:20:11,354 --> 03:20:13,409
Let me do a follow-up
question to that.

5285
03:20:13,409 --> 03:20:14,489
So for an area that

5286
03:20:14,489 --> 03:20:16,049
doesn't have
the capability

5287
03:20:16,049 --> 03:20:17,280
for one reason or another

5288
03:20:17,280 --> 03:20:19,275
to do what you're
describing.

5289
03:20:19,275 --> 03:20:22,785
Those areas should
either be unbelievable

5290
03:20:22,785 --> 03:20:24,360
or be forced to

5291
03:20:24,360 --> 03:20:27,045
completely convert
to non-pharm.

5292
03:20:27,045 --> 03:20:27,989
I know what you're coming

5293
03:20:27,989 --> 03:20:29,069
from and I agree
they ought to

5294
03:20:29,069 --> 03:20:31,470
be nothing but houses,
dishes County.

5295
03:20:31,470 --> 03:20:33,855
As long as you come
up with the services,

5296
03:20:33,855 --> 03:20:35,520
as long as you can
get the services.

5297
03:20:35,520 --> 03:20:37,904
I mean, let's face
facts. If it's not.

5298
03:20:37,904 --> 03:20:40,080
I mean, if it's not,

5299
03:20:40,080 --> 03:20:42,015
instead of building homes

5300
03:20:42,015 --> 03:20:43,620
between wood-burning
important and we

5301
03:20:43,620 --> 03:20:46,349
already build
them in the mail

5302
03:20:46,349 --> 03:20:49,425
here County ensuring
County in Lake County.

5303
03:20:49,425 --> 03:20:51,105
Because the land,

5304
03:20:51,105 --> 03:20:52,530
the productivity
of the land

5305
03:20:52,530 --> 03:20:53,220
and those areas are

5306
03:20:53,220 --> 03:20:55,034
significantly different
than you're seeing

5307
03:20:55,034 --> 03:20:58,395
lands and these other
kinds of areas.

5308
03:20:58,395 --> 03:21:01,109
Let me let me follow up
on that a little bit.

5309
03:21:01,109 --> 03:21:02,220
Take some areas.

5310
03:21:02,220 --> 03:21:03,450
We heard some testimony

5311
03:21:03,450 --> 03:21:05,280
from Douglas
County earlier,

5312
03:21:05,280 --> 03:21:07,169
which I guess is on
the south end of

5313
03:21:07,169 --> 03:21:07,830
the valley or the

5314
03:21:07,830 --> 03:21:09,030
Northern and
Southern Oregon,

5315
03:21:09,030 --> 03:21:10,080
depending on how
you're looking at

5316
03:21:10,080 --> 03:21:11,369
its southern Oregon,

5317
03:21:11,369 --> 03:21:12,570
Central Oregon,

5318
03:21:12,570 --> 03:21:14,670
possibly parts of
Eastern Oregon.

5319
03:21:14,670 --> 03:21:17,130
There are areas that

5320
03:21:17,130 --> 03:21:19,680
do not have the soils,
the parcel size,

5321
03:21:19,680 --> 03:21:21,090
the climate
conditions to be

5322
03:21:21,090 --> 03:21:24,255
able to produce fulltime,

5323
03:21:24,255 --> 03:21:27,689
no net income producing
farm operations.

5324
03:21:27,689 --> 03:21:29,399
So should we
write those areas

5325
03:21:29,399 --> 03:21:30,629
off as agriculture

5326
03:21:30,629 --> 03:21:32,970
altogether and force them

5327
03:21:32,970 --> 03:21:34,859
to convert to non-farm?

5328
03:21:34,859 --> 03:21:37,635
Or should we
be encouraging

5329
03:21:37,635 --> 03:21:39,000
the kind of agriculture

5330
03:21:39,000 --> 03:21:40,604
that those areas
can produce?

5331
03:21:40,604 --> 03:21:41,910
Or we should be
encouraging that kind

5332
03:21:41,910 --> 03:21:43,530
of agriculture,
those produced.

5333
03:21:43,530 --> 03:21:45,044
Because you put together

5334
03:21:45,044 --> 03:21:46,799
a number of those lats.

5335
03:21:46,799 --> 03:21:48,810
And you can put

5336
03:21:48,810 --> 03:21:50,190
together a farm
as a viable

5337
03:21:50,190 --> 03:21:51,794
operation and farm it.

5338
03:21:51,794 --> 03:21:53,549
And I said, I still
think there's

5339
03:21:53,549 --> 03:21:54,269
a possibility there's

5340
03:21:54,269 --> 03:21:55,784
more things than
just plant.

5341
03:21:55,784 --> 03:21:57,615
You've got
grazing situation

5342
03:21:57,615 --> 03:21:59,744
and an animal production,

5343
03:21:59,744 --> 03:22:00,885
these kind of things
you don't want.

5344
03:22:00,885 --> 03:22:02,549
There's a lot of
different ways it can be

5345
03:22:02,549 --> 03:22:05,234
a productive kind
of an operation.

5346
03:22:05,234 --> 03:22:07,469
But when you constrain

5347
03:22:07,469 --> 03:22:09,660
the size of the farm
to acreage sizes

5348
03:22:09,660 --> 03:22:10,530
and limits so much

5349
03:22:10,530 --> 03:22:11,459
that there's not
enough there

5350
03:22:11,459 --> 03:22:14,025
to make it viable
farm out of it.

5351
03:22:14,025 --> 03:22:15,299
Economically, I don t

5352
03:22:15,299 --> 03:22:17,010
think you can
ever make it go.

5353
03:22:17,010 --> 03:22:20,954
And that's in those areas.

5354
03:22:20,954 --> 03:22:22,560
Unfortunately,
the way the law

5355
03:22:22,560 --> 03:22:23,865
and practices
have gone on,

5356
03:22:23,865 --> 03:22:25,800
they develop a situation
that can be very

5357
03:22:25,800 --> 03:22:26,849
difficult to put them back

5358
03:22:26,849 --> 03:22:28,125
into agricultural
production.

5359
03:22:28,125 --> 03:22:29,310
So there's only
one kind of

5360
03:22:29,310 --> 03:22:30,480
acceptable farming and

5361
03:22:30,480 --> 03:22:34,064
Oregon and that's
full-time farming.

5362
03:22:34,064 --> 03:22:36,044
That isn't subsidized.

5363
03:22:36,044 --> 03:22:37,619
People generate
all of their net

5364
03:22:37,619 --> 03:22:39,510
income off the farm?

5365
03:22:39,510 --> 03:22:41,669
Say it was, that was

5366
03:22:41,669 --> 03:22:43,439
the only acceptable time.

5367
03:22:43,439 --> 03:22:45,030
But I think from a
realistic standpoint,

5368
03:22:45,030 --> 03:22:47,310
if you expect to
continue this economy in

5369
03:22:47,310 --> 03:22:50,339
our state to support
these kind of jobs,

5370
03:22:50,339 --> 03:22:52,170
you're going to have
to look at where the

5371
03:22:52,170 --> 03:22:53,670
People are that are

5372
03:22:53,670 --> 03:22:55,275
producing this in
what they're doing.

5373
03:22:55,275 --> 03:22:57,119
If you're going
to continue this.

5374
03:22:57,119 --> 03:22:58,920
Agriculture is one
of the few things in

5375
03:22:58,920 --> 03:23:01,229
the states have continued
to grow every year,

5376
03:23:01,229 --> 03:23:02,999
year after year
after year.

5377
03:23:02,999 --> 03:23:05,324
And if you don't
continue to see,

5378
03:23:05,324 --> 03:23:06,600
It's a big, important

5379
03:23:06,600 --> 03:23:08,220
part of the economy
of the state.

5380
03:23:08,220 --> 03:23:09,750
I'm talking about
only when it

5381
03:23:09,750 --> 03:23:11,115
comes to the creation

5382
03:23:11,115 --> 03:23:15,149
and the siting of a
farm related willing.

5383
03:23:15,149 --> 03:23:18,299
Let me just tell you
what my struggle is.

5384
03:23:18,299 --> 03:23:21,030
I look in a county
that I know best,

5385
03:23:21,030 --> 03:23:22,575
five years in a row,

5386
03:23:22,575 --> 03:23:25,319
agriculture has
been the heart,

5387
03:23:25,319 --> 03:23:28,064
the largest
growth industry.

5388
03:23:28,064 --> 03:23:31,619
And years ago it
wasn't even screen.

5389
03:23:31,619 --> 03:23:34,509
Now it's a, it's a
viable industry.

5390
03:23:34,509 --> 03:23:38,450
People who are engaged
in farming operations,

5391
03:23:38,450 --> 03:23:39,260
very few of them

5392
03:23:39,260 --> 03:23:41,240
are full-time
commercial farmers

5393
03:23:41,240 --> 03:23:43,805
who generate 100% of
their net income.

5394
03:23:43,805 --> 03:23:44,945
Arm.

5395
03:23:44,945 --> 03:23:47,495
Should we just
discount that,

5396
03:23:47,495 --> 03:23:49,414
that kind of agriculture?

5397
03:23:49,414 --> 03:23:52,069
Should we require
all of land to

5398
03:23:52,069 --> 03:23:54,560
be converted to
non-pharm and

5399
03:23:54,560 --> 03:23:55,849
take all the incentives

5400
03:23:55,849 --> 03:23:57,634
out of it that
they're probably

5401
03:23:57,634 --> 03:24:00,950
in part responsible
for increasing

5402
03:24:00,950 --> 03:24:03,050
the productivity of
some of these lands and

5403
03:24:03,050 --> 03:24:04,460
increasing the agriculture

5404
03:24:04,460 --> 03:24:05,824
sector of the economy.

5405
03:24:05,824 --> 03:24:07,730
I'm really struggling with

5406
03:24:07,730 --> 03:24:09,080
what people are saying.

5407
03:24:09,080 --> 03:24:10,774
There's only one
kind of farming.

5408
03:24:10,774 --> 03:24:12,589
And it's my kind

5409
03:24:12,589 --> 03:24:13,909
of farming or it
didn't farming.

5410
03:24:13,909 --> 03:24:15,169
I'm not talking about any

5411
03:24:15,169 --> 03:24:16,355
certain kind of farming.

5412
03:24:16,355 --> 03:24:17,729
I'm just trying to figure

5413
03:24:17,729 --> 03:24:18,779
out a way that it can be

5414
03:24:18,779 --> 03:24:20,789
a profitable
farm operation

5415
03:24:20,789 --> 03:24:22,875
and it can be sustainable.

5416
03:24:22,875 --> 03:24:25,139
There's no reason that
a person can farm land

5417
03:24:25,139 --> 03:24:28,240
is not sown for
exclusively the farm use.

5418
03:24:28,520 --> 03:24:31,620
So and and this is

5419
03:24:31,620 --> 03:24:33,870
probably what you're
referring to.

5420
03:24:33,870 --> 03:24:35,460
I'm talking about only for

5421
03:24:35,460 --> 03:24:37,125
a farm related
dwelling here.

5422
03:24:37,125 --> 03:24:38,699
This is what we're
discussing today.

5423
03:24:38,699 --> 03:24:39,930
There's no reason
why people in

5424
03:24:39,930 --> 03:24:41,790
rural residential areas
can still continue

5425
03:24:41,790 --> 03:24:47,474
to farm it. Okay.

5426
03:24:47,474 --> 03:24:48,090
Thanks.

5427
03:24:48,090 --> 03:24:50,459
Can I just comment?

5428
03:24:50,459 --> 03:24:51,479
Comments?

5429
03:24:51,479 --> 03:24:53,099
And I'd like to say that

5430
03:24:53,099 --> 03:24:54,719
all the time that I served

5431
03:24:54,719 --> 03:24:56,009
with Roger on
the commission,

5432
03:24:56,009 --> 03:24:59,009
that was an
interesting less than

5433
03:24:59,009 --> 03:25:02,804
than in agriculture from

5434
03:25:02,804 --> 03:25:05,070
his perspective down
here in the valley.

5435
03:25:05,070 --> 03:25:06,660
And M, We did,
we did get in

5436
03:25:06,660 --> 03:25:09,090
several arguments about
East versus West,

5437
03:25:09,090 --> 03:25:12,914
but we usually
somehow agreed.

5438
03:25:12,914 --> 03:25:15,539
Well, sometimes,
and I really

5439
03:25:15,539 --> 03:25:17,219
appreciated working
with him and

5440
03:25:17,219 --> 03:25:19,020
he's a very
knowledgeable guy,

5441
03:25:19,020 --> 03:25:26,009
even though he may
not think I am done.

5442
03:25:26,009 --> 03:25:27,119
I got a lot of
trouble together.

5443
03:25:27,119 --> 03:25:27,870
That's for darn sure.

5444
03:25:27,870 --> 03:25:29,099
In fact, I even got in

5445
03:25:29,099 --> 03:25:31,839
trouble with John when
I wasn't even there.

5446
03:25:32,630 --> 03:25:34,980
Well, we want to
hear about some of

5447
03:25:34,980 --> 03:25:37,439
the extra curricular
exploits.

5448
03:25:37,439 --> 03:25:39,910
Yes, John?

5449
03:25:42,400 --> 03:25:45,240
Yes.

5450
03:25:47,860 --> 03:25:50,314
Mr. Chairman,
Commissioners,

5451
03:25:50,314 --> 03:25:51,785
again, I'm Kim Jacobson.

5452
03:25:51,785 --> 03:25:53,389
This hat is as
planning director

5453
03:25:53,389 --> 03:25:55,340
with Washoe County and

5454
03:25:55,340 --> 03:25:56,450
just in defense of

5455
03:25:56,450 --> 03:25:57,710
sherman county and in

5456
03:25:57,710 --> 03:25:59,495
response to Mr.
Hamlin's comment,

5457
03:25:59,495 --> 03:26:00,949
they probably
wouldn't want to

5458
03:26:00,949 --> 03:26:02,629
see all the development
go to sherman county.

5459
03:26:02,629 --> 03:26:03,620
Sent Sherman County is

5460
03:26:03,620 --> 03:26:04,969
the biggest we producer,

5461
03:26:04,969 --> 03:26:07,114
I believe in the
continental United States.

5462
03:26:07,114 --> 03:26:09,349
They average about 3,000
acre farm out there.

5463
03:26:09,349 --> 03:26:10,580
So they're probably
not real excited

5464
03:26:10,580 --> 03:26:13,160
about high level
of development.

5465
03:26:13,160 --> 03:26:15,139
I want to stress and I

5466
03:26:15,139 --> 03:26:16,594
think Mr. Hamilton
did as well,

5467
03:26:16,594 --> 03:26:18,184
again, the regional
diversity.

5468
03:26:18,184 --> 03:26:20,524
And we see the importance

5469
03:26:20,524 --> 03:26:21,859
of being able to
demonstrate at

5470
03:26:21,859 --> 03:26:24,689
the local level
the criteria

5471
03:26:24,689 --> 03:26:25,109
that are going to

5472
03:26:25,109 --> 03:26:27,750
fit the local
circumstances.

5473
03:26:27,750 --> 03:26:29,219
And we're also County

5474
03:26:29,219 --> 03:26:32,534
is a good example of
that in and of itself.

5475
03:26:32,534 --> 03:26:35,850
Regarding the test
three, the income test,

5476
03:26:35,850 --> 03:26:39,210
the $80,000 is
not a problem.

5477
03:26:39,210 --> 03:26:42,299
As an income test,
our high-value land

5478
03:26:42,299 --> 03:26:43,694
has cherry crops.

5479
03:26:43,694 --> 03:26:45,450
$80,000 represents

5480
03:26:45,450 --> 03:26:47,280
about 15 acres of
production there,

5481
03:26:47,280 --> 03:26:50,009
about $5,000 an acre
crop, it's a 29,

5482
03:26:50,009 --> 03:26:53,685
almost a $30,000,000
sales per year.

5483
03:26:53,685 --> 03:26:55,769
It's a very lucrative,

5484
03:26:55,769 --> 03:26:57,960
it represents about 51% of

5485
03:26:57,960 --> 03:27:00,044
our agricultural
commodities.

5486
03:27:00,044 --> 03:27:01,650
So that's not necessarily

5487
03:27:01,650 --> 03:27:03,180
a problem unless you get

5488
03:27:03,180 --> 03:27:04,440
into new farmers
and then you'd

5489
03:27:04,440 --> 03:27:06,195
move into the
capability test.

5490
03:27:06,195 --> 03:27:07,979
The problem with the
income test is a

5491
03:27:07,979 --> 03:27:09,270
40,000 because
anything and

5492
03:27:09,270 --> 03:27:10,924
Ross can that's
not high-value.

5493
03:27:10,924 --> 03:27:13,650
We fall away off
the other end.

5494
03:27:13,650 --> 03:27:16,305
Everything south of
our orchard area

5495
03:27:16,305 --> 03:27:19,590
is only suitable for
alfalfa at best.

5496
03:27:19,590 --> 03:27:22,559
I know of one special
circumstance.

5497
03:27:22,559 --> 03:27:24,900
160 acres of
alfalfa produces

5498
03:27:24,900 --> 03:27:27,690
$27,000 annual
gross income.

5499
03:27:27,690 --> 03:27:29,579
That is definitely
poverty level.

5500
03:27:29,579 --> 03:27:31,740
But for people who
are producing alfalfa

5501
03:27:31,740 --> 03:27:32,940
in the South
County farmers

5502
03:27:32,940 --> 03:27:34,259
who, that's all they do.

5503
03:27:34,259 --> 03:27:37,530
They have an organic
farm. That's realistic.

5504
03:27:37,530 --> 03:27:39,510
So the 40,000 income
test doesn't work

5505
03:27:39,510 --> 03:27:42,014
for an alfalfa farmer
in our south area.

5506
03:27:42,014 --> 03:27:44,940
So if you go to the test
tube capability test

5507
03:27:44,940 --> 03:27:47,565
in say an orchard farmer,

5508
03:27:47,565 --> 03:27:51,195
dairy farmer who
wants to start up,

5509
03:27:51,195 --> 03:27:53,130
he may get 20 acres or

5510
03:27:53,130 --> 03:27:55,035
maybe an existing
20 acre parcel.

5511
03:27:55,035 --> 03:27:57,539
He's not going to
make the income test

5512
03:27:57,539 --> 03:27:59,789
of 80,000 because
they really don't

5513
03:27:59,789 --> 03:28:00,779
start making income until

5514
03:28:00,779 --> 03:28:02,445
about five Year five

5515
03:28:02,445 --> 03:28:04,574
when they start getting
some tree fruit

5516
03:28:04,574 --> 03:28:05,820
if it's a new orchard.

5517
03:28:05,820 --> 03:28:07,740
So they're not going to
make the income test.

5518
03:28:07,740 --> 03:28:09,330
And they're going to be
pretty tough to make

5519
03:28:09,330 --> 03:28:11,040
the capability test if
you start looking at

5520
03:28:11,040 --> 03:28:13,350
the median parcel size and

5521
03:28:13,350 --> 03:28:15,690
the median gross
sales because

5522
03:28:15,690 --> 03:28:16,980
the median orchard size is

5523
03:28:16,980 --> 03:28:18,779
50 acres in our county

5524
03:28:18,779 --> 03:28:22,695
and the gross sales
is very high.

5525
03:28:22,695 --> 03:28:23,399
So they're not going to

5526
03:28:23,399 --> 03:28:25,530
make that
capability tests.

5527
03:28:25,530 --> 03:28:26,400
And so they're left with

5528
03:28:26,400 --> 03:28:28,020
a minimum acreage test

5529
03:28:28,020 --> 03:28:29,099
and they're not going
to make that either.

5530
03:28:29,099 --> 03:28:30,944
So it's gonna
be a tough lot

5531
03:28:30,944 --> 03:28:33,180
for people who
want to get into

5532
03:28:33,180 --> 03:28:35,039
the orchard
business who are

5533
03:28:35,039 --> 03:28:38,399
offspring of an
existing orchard,

5534
03:28:38,399 --> 03:28:39,780
you know, any of
those that are

5535
03:28:39,780 --> 03:28:41,190
currently in the
business and are

5536
03:28:41,190 --> 03:28:42,930
trying to break off
from their family

5537
03:28:42,930 --> 03:28:46,004
and expand their
operation.

5538
03:28:46,004 --> 03:28:48,539
So there are some
difficulties that

5539
03:28:48,539 --> 03:28:49,590
even we have within

5540
03:28:49,590 --> 03:28:50,849
our county with
the criteria.

5541
03:28:50,849 --> 03:28:52,140
And I stress the ability

5542
03:28:52,140 --> 03:28:53,280
to maybe set a range of

5543
03:28:53,280 --> 03:28:54,659
criteria and let us

5544
03:28:54,659 --> 03:28:57,224
demonstrate at the local
level how they fit.

5545
03:28:57,224 --> 03:28:59,985
And I will
summarize quickly.

5546
03:28:59,985 --> 03:29:02,009
I think it would
behoove you to

5547
03:29:02,009 --> 03:29:03,630
give us additional
time and request

5548
03:29:03,630 --> 03:29:05,399
specific case examples of

5549
03:29:05,399 --> 03:29:07,679
how the criteria
fit each county.

5550
03:29:07,679 --> 03:29:09,435
I think that would
give you some very

5551
03:29:09,435 --> 03:29:12,309
good material
to work with.

5552
03:29:12,470 --> 03:29:15,240
And that pretty
much covers it.

5553
03:29:15,240 --> 03:29:17,040
Questions.

5554
03:29:17,040 --> 03:29:19,620
One example you
were giving about

5555
03:29:19,620 --> 03:29:21,090
the person who I

5556
03:29:21,090 --> 03:29:22,409
can't remember the
number of acres you use.

5557
03:29:22,409 --> 03:29:23,520
Maybe it was 20 acres.

5558
03:29:23,520 --> 03:29:25,724
Who would like to get
into cherry orchard?

5559
03:29:25,724 --> 03:29:27,479
Do you think that
person not being

5560
03:29:27,479 --> 03:29:29,460
able to meet
the test as you

5561
03:29:29,460 --> 03:29:30,960
walk through them
would be interested in

5562
03:29:30,960 --> 03:29:32,059
a temporary dwelling on

5563
03:29:32,059 --> 03:29:34,479
an opportunity
to get started.

5564
03:29:36,830 --> 03:29:39,389
My involvement with
the farm bureau

5565
03:29:39,389 --> 03:29:40,995
and growers who

5566
03:29:40,995 --> 03:29:42,345
are about my age have

5567
03:29:42,345 --> 03:29:44,819
2.3 kids. At this point.

5568
03:29:44,819 --> 03:29:46,439
They'd been in
they'd been under

5569
03:29:46,439 --> 03:29:48,614
their parents or
treating business

5570
03:29:48,614 --> 03:29:50,400
a temporary
they're willing

5571
03:29:50,400 --> 03:29:53,369
to try and make it work.

5572
03:29:53,369 --> 03:29:55,574
When I went over

5573
03:29:55,574 --> 03:29:56,790
temporary dwellings
with them,

5574
03:29:56,790 --> 03:29:58,470
they didn't jump at it.

5575
03:29:58,470 --> 03:30:00,539
And I talked to the
farm bureau last week

5576
03:30:00,539 --> 03:30:02,714
about what I
may start out.

5577
03:30:02,714 --> 03:30:04,439
They can have a
temporary dwellings

5578
03:30:04,439 --> 03:30:05,639
and they make
other provision,

5579
03:30:05,639 --> 03:30:07,379
they just live
someplace else,

5580
03:30:07,379 --> 03:30:10,529
or it's common to
lease the land, right?

5581
03:30:10,529 --> 03:30:12,180
So what's wrong with
living someplace

5582
03:30:12,180 --> 03:30:13,694
else when you get
the thing started?

5583
03:30:13,694 --> 03:30:15,299
Because their
family just like

5584
03:30:15,299 --> 03:30:16,649
anybody else and they
want to get settled in,

5585
03:30:16,649 --> 03:30:17,729
they wanted to go and
they don't want to

5586
03:30:17,729 --> 03:30:19,065
waste their
time in trivia.

5587
03:30:19,065 --> 03:30:20,310
They just, they
know what they're

5588
03:30:20,310 --> 03:30:22,230
doing and they
want to convince

5589
03:30:22,230 --> 03:30:23,280
you and they're
insulted by

5590
03:30:23,280 --> 03:30:24,510
the fact that you
don't believe

5591
03:30:24,510 --> 03:30:25,830
that they're really
going to be committed

5592
03:30:25,830 --> 03:30:27,195
to that process.

5593
03:30:27,195 --> 03:30:29,220
And when they
represent 51% of

5594
03:30:29,220 --> 03:30:30,810
our agricultural
sales at $30 million,

5595
03:30:30,810 --> 03:30:32,955
it's pretty tough to
insult that industry.

5596
03:30:32,955 --> 03:30:35,145
We have to be
pretty careful.

5597
03:30:35,145 --> 03:30:38,770
They're very
powerful lobby.

5598
03:30:40,640 --> 03:30:43,004
We're going to be
able to get her.

5599
03:30:43,004 --> 03:30:44,774
Okay. Thank you very much.

5600
03:30:44,774 --> 03:30:45,930
Thank you.

5601
03:30:45,930 --> 03:30:48,929
What are we gonna be
able to get our cars?

5602
03:30:48,929 --> 03:30:50,370
Maybe we could
read as well.

5603
03:30:50,370 --> 03:30:52,514
Yeah. We're done
over there.

5604
03:30:52,514 --> 03:30:53,624
Okay.

5605
03:30:53,624 --> 03:30:59,279
And so we reconvene
tomorrow at 09:00.

5606
03:30:59,279 --> 03:31:00,959
Do you know if people

5607
03:31:00,959 --> 03:31:03,069
can leave their
papers here?

5608
03:31:05,630 --> 03:31:09,880
Since about the time.