1
00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:01,409
And they just chose not

2
00:00:01,409 --> 00:00:02,460
to do the work themselves,

3
00:00:02,460 --> 00:00:03,719
but they have someone
else doing it.

4
00:00:03,719 --> 00:00:06,540
And to me that's
still, that's fine.

5
00:00:06,540 --> 00:00:08,024
It doesn't the
American way

6
00:00:08,024 --> 00:00:10,004
doesn't bother
me. That doesn't.

7
00:00:10,004 --> 00:00:12,540
So the other thing

8
00:00:12,540 --> 00:00:14,549
that I'm driven by
looking at the fact

9
00:00:14,549 --> 00:00:18,045
that even though
nationally

10
00:00:18,045 --> 00:00:19,440
there are fewer and fewer

11
00:00:19,440 --> 00:00:21,404
farms being defined,

12
00:00:21,404 --> 00:00:23,760
we keep approving
farmed dwellings

13
00:00:23,760 --> 00:00:25,049
and I can't believe,

14
00:00:25,049 --> 00:00:26,805
but most of these are not

15
00:00:26,805 --> 00:00:28,289
true commercial farms by

16
00:00:28,289 --> 00:00:30,234
any stretch of
the imagination.

17
00:00:30,234 --> 00:00:33,065
Particularly after
yesterday's testimony

18
00:00:33,065 --> 00:00:34,684
from all the
farmers we heard,

19
00:00:34,684 --> 00:00:36,245
they couldn't think of

20
00:00:36,245 --> 00:00:38,119
a legitimate farm
dwelling that had

21
00:00:38,119 --> 00:00:39,619
really been built in

22
00:00:39,619 --> 00:00:42,094
their areas, in
their memory.

23
00:00:42,094 --> 00:00:44,060
And they also said,

24
00:00:44,060 --> 00:00:47,164
I think it was lowest

25
00:00:47,164 --> 00:00:49,070
Carnegie that
virtually all farmers,

26
00:00:49,070 --> 00:00:49,459
as she know,

27
00:00:49,459 --> 00:00:51,500
young farmers start out
by renting a place,

28
00:00:51,500 --> 00:00:52,880
leasing and
working their way

29
00:00:52,880 --> 00:00:55,940
up or they get it inherited
or whatever else.

30
00:00:55,940 --> 00:00:57,240
I know that's
why I started I

31
00:00:57,240 --> 00:00:59,149
started in a rented
place and didn't have

32
00:00:59,149 --> 00:01:00,980
any trouble finding or
rented dwelling out in

33
00:01:00,980 --> 00:01:01,879
the country
because there are

34
00:01:01,879 --> 00:01:03,989
lots of them already.

35
00:01:04,030 --> 00:01:07,819
So let me just close

36
00:01:07,819 --> 00:01:08,959
all this
philosophical stuff

37
00:01:08,959 --> 00:01:09,860
by coming down of what

38
00:01:09,860 --> 00:01:12,875
I think where
we ought to be.

39
00:01:12,875 --> 00:01:15,439
I find test1 doesn't fit

40
00:01:15,439 --> 00:01:17,660
any of my criteria
because it

41
00:01:17,660 --> 00:01:19,370
purely based on
Akers has nothing to

42
00:01:19,370 --> 00:01:21,260
do with commercial
size and I just

43
00:01:21,260 --> 00:01:26,824
don't see 160 or 320 is
getting us anywhere.

44
00:01:26,824 --> 00:01:29,764
Plus at least
the cheat sheet

45
00:01:29,764 --> 00:01:31,459
I got doesn't even have

46
00:01:31,459 --> 00:01:34,580
the criteria of
the ownership

47
00:01:34,580 --> 00:01:36,905
is principally directed
toward farming,

48
00:01:36,905 --> 00:01:39,665
which I think is an
important factor.

49
00:01:39,665 --> 00:01:45,035
Test two seems to meet
just a tortured way

50
00:01:45,035 --> 00:01:50,090
of trying to get small
non commercial farms,

51
00:01:50,090 --> 00:01:55,504
basically hobby
farms approved.

52
00:01:55,504 --> 00:01:58,730
And so I am left
with test three,

53
00:01:58,730 --> 00:02:00,439
which seems to me the
one legitimate one.

54
00:02:00,439 --> 00:02:01,070
And I agree with

55
00:02:01,070 --> 00:02:02,180
Hector that way
I think we can

56
00:02:02,180 --> 00:02:04,324
get to the same place
a cliff wants to get.

57
00:02:04,324 --> 00:02:06,739
By having a gross
value thing.

58
00:02:06,739 --> 00:02:08,750
We don't need to
get to the net net

59
00:02:08,750 --> 00:02:11,494
one that cliff
is coming after.

60
00:02:11,494 --> 00:02:15,259
I guess I come down to
saying that the number

61
00:02:15,259 --> 00:02:19,864
ought to be for
both 80,000.

62
00:02:19,864 --> 00:02:21,755
I just would put
80,000 in there.

63
00:02:21,755 --> 00:02:25,835
And to me, the
80,000 number says

64
00:02:25,835 --> 00:02:27,530
that about a third of

65
00:02:27,530 --> 00:02:28,760
a if you're looking at

66
00:02:28,760 --> 00:02:30,409
cliffs thing
as an example,

67
00:02:30,409 --> 00:02:32,600
rebuilds $100,000
house and

68
00:02:32,600 --> 00:02:33,980
it takes a net income,

69
00:02:33,980 --> 00:02:35,735
farm income of 40,000.

70
00:02:35,735 --> 00:02:37,280
If we say that 40,000 is

71
00:02:37,280 --> 00:02:39,829
a good net farm income,

72
00:02:39,829 --> 00:02:42,350
and that you can spend
about a third of

73
00:02:42,350 --> 00:02:44,434
that income on
paying for a house.

74
00:02:44,434 --> 00:02:48,950
Then you take his
240000/3, you got 80,000.

75
00:02:48,950 --> 00:02:51,079
So I guess what
I'd be saying,

76
00:02:51,079 --> 00:02:52,624
my underlying thing was,

77
00:02:52,624 --> 00:02:54,470
if you can with

78
00:02:54,470 --> 00:02:56,600
a third of your third
of the farm income,

79
00:02:56,600 --> 00:02:59,599
pay for the house,
which is about 80,000,

80
00:02:59,599 --> 00:03:01,280
then you can get
two-thirds urine come

81
00:03:01,280 --> 00:03:02,960
off the farm and
that's fine with me.

82
00:03:02,960 --> 00:03:05,570
So I guess what I'm
coming down to is if

83
00:03:05,570 --> 00:03:08,600
the standard kind
of means that

84
00:03:08,600 --> 00:03:10,639
about a third of
a person's income

85
00:03:10,639 --> 00:03:11,959
would come off the farm.

86
00:03:11,959 --> 00:03:13,580
And assuming that
this is talking

87
00:03:13,580 --> 00:03:15,604
about a $40,000 income,

88
00:03:15,604 --> 00:03:18,410
net income, I'm willing

89
00:03:18,410 --> 00:03:20,239
to just say that's
commercial.

90
00:03:20,239 --> 00:03:23,254
So the 80,000 tests,

91
00:03:23,254 --> 00:03:25,760
it seems to me that's
a legitimate one

92
00:03:25,760 --> 00:03:27,929
and I have throughout
all the others.

93
00:03:28,690 --> 00:03:31,430
You would check
test three with

94
00:03:31,430 --> 00:03:33,395
an $80,000 standard. Yeah.

95
00:03:33,395 --> 00:03:34,684
I think it's fair.

96
00:03:34,684 --> 00:03:36,050
It's doesn't
imply that you

97
00:03:36,050 --> 00:03:37,609
have to be 100% farming.

98
00:03:37,609 --> 00:03:40,219
It's, it means that it's
currently employed,

99
00:03:40,219 --> 00:03:41,240
that you are
legitimate, that

100
00:03:41,240 --> 00:03:43,039
you've done something.

101
00:03:43,039 --> 00:03:46,209
And I think there's

102
00:03:46,209 --> 00:03:47,645
so many dwellings out
there already that

103
00:03:47,645 --> 00:03:48,560
there are a lot of places

104
00:03:48,560 --> 00:03:49,519
for people to get started.

105
00:03:49,519 --> 00:03:53,270
That when I get
started, I want to

106
00:03:53,270 --> 00:03:54,875
agree with what
Bill said that and

107
00:03:54,875 --> 00:03:57,050
certainly I'm I'm in
favor of tests three,

108
00:03:57,050 --> 00:03:58,730
and I think that's
the direction to go.

109
00:03:58,730 --> 00:04:00,004
However, I have

110
00:04:00,004 --> 00:04:02,360
one concern that
he doesn't have,

111
00:04:02,360 --> 00:04:03,200
is it I think there

112
00:04:03,200 --> 00:04:04,220
really ought to
be a difference

113
00:04:04,220 --> 00:04:07,249
between ESU and
high-value.

114
00:04:07,249 --> 00:04:08,270
I don t think we all have

115
00:04:08,270 --> 00:04:09,709
the same test both places.

116
00:04:09,709 --> 00:04:10,940
I think if we're going to

117
00:04:10,940 --> 00:04:12,860
encourage the
part-time farmer,

118
00:04:12,860 --> 00:04:14,360
we ought to be
encouraging him on

119
00:04:14,360 --> 00:04:16,370
the lower value land,

120
00:04:16,370 --> 00:04:17,779
which would be
the view land.

121
00:04:17,779 --> 00:04:20,134
And so I genuinely

122
00:04:20,134 --> 00:04:22,624
like the tests that
were put in the thing,

123
00:04:22,624 --> 00:04:24,230
in the test three,

124
00:04:24,230 --> 00:04:25,625
the 40 and the AD,

125
00:04:25,625 --> 00:04:28,130
making the distinction
between those two.

126
00:04:28,130 --> 00:04:30,260
And I think we
made something of

127
00:04:30,260 --> 00:04:32,929
a promise to
Eastern Oregon

128
00:04:32,929 --> 00:04:33,470
that they were going to

129
00:04:33,470 --> 00:04:34,999
be treated somewhat more

130
00:04:34,999 --> 00:04:36,230
leniently than those of

131
00:04:36,230 --> 00:04:37,490
us here in the valley.

132
00:04:37,490 --> 00:04:38,719
And so the certainly the

133
00:04:38,719 --> 00:04:40,879
40 is better than the 80.

134
00:04:40,879 --> 00:04:42,439
So if we're
going to choose

135
00:04:42,439 --> 00:04:43,790
just one test
or even if we

136
00:04:43,790 --> 00:04:45,620
do decide to accept

137
00:04:45,620 --> 00:04:47,254
some of these other tests,

138
00:04:47,254 --> 00:04:49,519
I really would
like to have

139
00:04:49,519 --> 00:04:53,000
40,000 CFU on
the 80,000 on

140
00:04:53,000 --> 00:04:55,009
high-value to make
a distinction

141
00:04:55,009 --> 00:04:56,090
there that I think

142
00:04:56,090 --> 00:04:57,619
everybody can
understand and I think

143
00:04:57,619 --> 00:04:59,435
we are putting our
stamp on that.

144
00:04:59,435 --> 00:05:01,880
Okay. If you've, you're
making bringing in

145
00:05:01,880 --> 00:05:05,000
this kind of money
from your operation.

146
00:05:05,000 --> 00:05:06,694
You are definitely
commercial.

147
00:05:06,694 --> 00:05:08,449
Now, I don't want to tell

148
00:05:08,449 --> 00:05:11,480
fill award that he
doesn't have and I

149
00:05:11,480 --> 00:05:13,370
would have liked to
have asked him exactly

150
00:05:13,370 --> 00:05:14,599
how many dollars
he can bring in

151
00:05:14,599 --> 00:05:16,219
office 12 acres
because I think there

152
00:05:16,219 --> 00:05:19,280
are some times that
he can bring that in.

153
00:05:19,280 --> 00:05:20,960
Even maybe I'm sure he

154
00:05:20,960 --> 00:05:21,979
could bring the 40,000,

155
00:05:21,979 --> 00:05:23,389
but I don't think he
could bring the ADN

156
00:05:23,389 --> 00:05:25,279
probably on each 12
week or two juries,

157
00:05:25,279 --> 00:05:28,145
although some years
they do pretty well.

158
00:05:28,145 --> 00:05:34,310
This chair, I think

159
00:05:34,310 --> 00:05:36,440
I think we're missing
an issue that I'd like

160
00:05:36,440 --> 00:05:38,929
to toss out for
consideration.

161
00:05:38,929 --> 00:05:41,059
And it is more of a
philosophical issue

162
00:05:41,059 --> 00:05:43,370
before we get down to
the specific numbers.

163
00:05:43,370 --> 00:05:45,110
If you look at the
different regions of

164
00:05:45,110 --> 00:05:47,599
the state, all
over the state,

165
00:05:47,599 --> 00:05:50,060
the predominant
agriculture in

166
00:05:50,060 --> 00:05:52,760
individual regions
is different.

167
00:05:52,760 --> 00:05:54,379
There's not just one kind

168
00:05:54,379 --> 00:05:56,539
of agriculture and Oregon.

169
00:05:56,539 --> 00:05:58,580
And I think we have
the potential if

170
00:05:58,580 --> 00:06:00,770
we set a standard,

171
00:06:00,770 --> 00:06:03,500
if we if we establish
the criteria

172
00:06:03,500 --> 00:06:06,500
based on a single
test, tests three,

173
00:06:06,500 --> 00:06:09,905
and we establish a
number of, let's say,

174
00:06:09,905 --> 00:06:14,329
$80,000 that may be
low in some areas,

175
00:06:14,329 --> 00:06:17,900
that may be high
and other areas.

176
00:06:17,900 --> 00:06:20,449
But I think a
philosophical point

177
00:06:20,449 --> 00:06:22,474
that we need to come
to grips with is,

178
00:06:22,474 --> 00:06:25,309
do we want to
recognize and try to

179
00:06:25,309 --> 00:06:27,335
protect predominant
agriculture

180
00:06:27,335 --> 00:06:28,655
in some regions?

181
00:06:28,655 --> 00:06:30,650
That maybe doesn't fit

182
00:06:30,650 --> 00:06:31,970
that some
people's model of

183
00:06:31,970 --> 00:06:33,484
what full-time or

184
00:06:33,484 --> 00:06:36,004
third time commercial
agriculture is?

185
00:06:36,004 --> 00:06:37,309
Or do we want to come up

186
00:06:37,309 --> 00:06:38,539
with a single
definition of

187
00:06:38,539 --> 00:06:40,699
agriculture and try to

188
00:06:40,699 --> 00:06:42,515
make everything
conform to it.

189
00:06:42,515 --> 00:06:45,170
And if egg, if all
agriculture doesn't

190
00:06:45,170 --> 00:06:48,200
conform to that one
definition we have,

191
00:06:48,200 --> 00:06:51,034
then we automatically
convert,

192
00:06:51,034 --> 00:06:53,329
converted essentially
that the non-pharm

193
00:06:53,329 --> 00:06:54,680
I want to give you
an example just to

194
00:06:54,680 --> 00:06:59,150
take bills number
into shoots County,

195
00:06:59,150 --> 00:07:01,820
which is possibly
somewhat representative

196
00:07:01,820 --> 00:07:03,724
of a Central
Oregon County.

197
00:07:03,724 --> 00:07:06,710
If we use the 80,000
number and we take

198
00:07:06,710 --> 00:07:10,639
the what's the
term for it,

199
00:07:10,639 --> 00:07:12,620
the predominant crop,

200
00:07:12,620 --> 00:07:15,199
I forget what the
indicator, indicator crop.

201
00:07:15,199 --> 00:07:18,440
Now let's use alpha
that averages about,

202
00:07:18,440 --> 00:07:20,210
let's say 300 acre.

203
00:07:20,210 --> 00:07:25,295
That takes 270
irrigated acres

204
00:07:25,295 --> 00:07:29,269
in order to get
a farm dwelling.

205
00:07:29,269 --> 00:07:30,920
There's not a
single sub zone.

206
00:07:30,920 --> 00:07:33,514
We have seven sub zones
into shoots County.

207
00:07:33,514 --> 00:07:35,179
There's not a
single sub zone

208
00:07:35,179 --> 00:07:36,859
into shoots
county that has

209
00:07:36,859 --> 00:07:41,524
a median acreage size
of 270 irrigated acres.

210
00:07:41,524 --> 00:07:43,880
So I think what the
effect would be in

211
00:07:43,880 --> 00:07:46,340
at least one
county would be

212
00:07:46,340 --> 00:07:49,909
for essentially
the entire zone

213
00:07:49,909 --> 00:07:52,744
to be converted
to non-pharm.

214
00:07:52,744 --> 00:07:56,600
And essentially we'd have

215
00:07:56,600 --> 00:07:58,534
a non-farm ESU zone.

216
00:07:58,534 --> 00:07:59,854
And then at some point,

217
00:07:59,854 --> 00:08:02,375
you've probably looked
at that and say Zf,

218
00:08:02,375 --> 00:08:05,224
use zoning proper for

219
00:08:05,224 --> 00:08:07,939
a zone that's
basically non-farm,

220
00:08:07,939 --> 00:08:09,980
so it may necessitate
some rezoning

221
00:08:09,980 --> 00:08:12,994
of those lands in
that zone altogether.

222
00:08:12,994 --> 00:08:15,229
So essentially you create

223
00:08:15,229 --> 00:08:17,539
a standard that
is so high,

224
00:08:17,539 --> 00:08:18,784
it doesn't resemble

225
00:08:18,784 --> 00:08:21,065
the predominant
agriculture and an area,

226
00:08:21,065 --> 00:08:23,900
you convert the entire
area to non-pharm.

227
00:08:23,900 --> 00:08:26,060
And again, I think
we need to try to

228
00:08:26,060 --> 00:08:28,130
put some methods in place.

229
00:08:28,130 --> 00:08:29,479
And I think
that's what the

230
00:08:29,479 --> 00:08:31,759
TRC was attempting to do,

231
00:08:31,759 --> 00:08:34,790
was to give the
opportunity to

232
00:08:34,790 --> 00:08:37,099
identify and

233
00:08:37,099 --> 00:08:40,354
protect predominant
agriculture in an area,

234
00:08:40,354 --> 00:08:41,630
rather than trying to come

235
00:08:41,630 --> 00:08:42,829
up with a single standard

236
00:08:42,829 --> 00:08:45,814
and to try to make
everything conform to it.

237
00:08:45,814 --> 00:08:48,979
I would clearly
support test

238
00:08:48,979 --> 00:08:52,310
to as a means
to do that and

239
00:08:52,310 --> 00:08:54,139
would adamantly

240
00:08:54,139 --> 00:08:58,715
oppose any attempt
to establish

241
00:08:58,715 --> 00:09:01,039
a single criteria
that doesn't reflect

242
00:09:01,039 --> 00:09:02,689
some individual
differences and

243
00:09:02,689 --> 00:09:04,159
predominant agriculture

244
00:09:04,159 --> 00:09:06,899
in various regions
of the state.

245
00:09:06,940 --> 00:09:10,759
Chairman, in light of

246
00:09:10,759 --> 00:09:12,800
what Hector said
and in light

247
00:09:12,800 --> 00:09:14,389
of what Tom said,

248
00:09:14,389 --> 00:09:16,250
i'm I'm going to ask
handling to come

249
00:09:16,250 --> 00:09:18,139
up and give a
little perspective

250
00:09:18,139 --> 00:09:20,369
if that's alright with you

251
00:09:20,620 --> 00:09:23,194
from how that might affect

252
00:09:23,194 --> 00:09:25,949
the Eastern
Oregon counties.

253
00:09:26,950 --> 00:09:29,929
Can I ask John Dewey
status question?

254
00:09:29,929 --> 00:09:31,429
I was just going
to ask for

255
00:09:31,429 --> 00:09:34,489
your perspective on
how you feel about

256
00:09:34,489 --> 00:09:37,560
these different
tests and how

257
00:09:37,990 --> 00:09:41,449
Hector supporting
tests three times

258
00:09:41,449 --> 00:09:44,180
sporting test to now,

259
00:09:44,180 --> 00:09:45,769
do you feel about

260
00:09:45,769 --> 00:09:48,664
either one or
both of those?

261
00:09:48,664 --> 00:09:52,770
Or which tests do
you favor, if any?

262
00:09:54,580 --> 00:09:57,425
Okay. Haley Jenkins,
for the record,

263
00:09:57,425 --> 00:10:00,110
the As a member

264
00:10:00,110 --> 00:10:03,499
from the Technical
Resource Committee,

265
00:10:03,499 --> 00:10:05,810
I concurred with consensus

266
00:10:05,810 --> 00:10:07,309
of the committee
that there should

267
00:10:07,309 --> 00:10:08,809
be the three tests

268
00:10:08,809 --> 00:10:10,909
available to the
different communities.

269
00:10:10,909 --> 00:10:13,040
I guess I can support
what Tom is saying

270
00:10:13,040 --> 00:10:16,530
about diversity
within the state.

271
00:10:16,570 --> 00:10:20,360
$80,000 for all e

272
00:10:20,360 --> 00:10:22,639
a few zones I

273
00:10:22,639 --> 00:10:24,259
showed you yesterday
and can show

274
00:10:24,259 --> 00:10:28,370
you again today what
$40,000 means in

275
00:10:28,370 --> 00:10:30,124
Union County for

276
00:10:30,124 --> 00:10:33,469
the predominant crops
that are produced.

277
00:10:33,469 --> 00:10:37,010
And you would then
simply double

278
00:10:37,010 --> 00:10:39,320
those figures to represent

279
00:10:39,320 --> 00:10:41,389
what that acreage is.

280
00:10:41,389 --> 00:10:43,219
In Uni County,
and I can tell

281
00:10:43,219 --> 00:10:46,279
you that for wheat,

282
00:10:46,279 --> 00:10:48,560
barley and with
the exception

283
00:10:48,560 --> 00:10:50,314
of grass seed and mint,

284
00:10:50,314 --> 00:10:53,570
those figures at $40,000

285
00:10:53,570 --> 00:10:56,509
are close to the
160 acre figure.

286
00:10:56,509 --> 00:10:59,390
And obviously you'd
have to double that

287
00:10:59,390 --> 00:11:02,689
for the $80,000 figure.

288
00:11:02,689 --> 00:11:05,795
We do have a substantial
amount of land

289
00:11:05,795 --> 00:11:08,794
that is included in a
high-value designation.

290
00:11:08,794 --> 00:11:11,989
And so the split of

291
00:11:11,989 --> 00:11:14,180
40 80 is going

292
00:11:14,180 --> 00:11:16,579
to be significant
for Union County.

293
00:11:16,579 --> 00:11:18,784
There will be a
substantial amount of land

294
00:11:18,784 --> 00:11:21,994
then would have to
meet the $80,000 test.

295
00:11:21,994 --> 00:11:25,535
However, that was
the agreement

296
00:11:25,535 --> 00:11:27,890
that or the consensus that

297
00:11:27,890 --> 00:11:30,409
the technical resource
committee had reached

298
00:11:30,409 --> 00:11:33,200
and the agricultural
representative

299
00:11:33,200 --> 00:11:35,584
that we had from
Union County,

300
00:11:35,584 --> 00:11:41,585
mary jane West supported
the 80, 40 split.

301
00:11:41,585 --> 00:11:44,210
So but that was

302
00:11:44,210 --> 00:11:48,170
also recognized that
that was one of

303
00:11:48,170 --> 00:11:50,690
three potential options
that was available

304
00:11:50,690 --> 00:11:54,829
to the county for

305
00:11:54,829 --> 00:11:56,899
examining whether or not

306
00:11:56,899 --> 00:11:58,549
a PharmD dwelling could be

307
00:11:58,549 --> 00:12:02,599
established on
EF new lands,

308
00:12:02,599 --> 00:12:05,239
recognizing the
high-value designation

309
00:12:05,239 --> 00:12:06,320
was going to include

310
00:12:06,320 --> 00:12:08,630
those areas that
were within

311
00:12:08,630 --> 00:12:13,019
the legislative
definition of high-value.

312
00:12:13,720 --> 00:12:18,214
So you can lay question.

313
00:12:18,214 --> 00:12:18,769
Yeah.

314
00:12:18,769 --> 00:12:19,084
Go ahead.

315
00:12:19,084 --> 00:12:20,719
Well, I was just kind
of follow up suit.

316
00:12:20,719 --> 00:12:23,000
So you're you're in favor

317
00:12:23,000 --> 00:12:25,880
of all three approaches
being available.

318
00:12:25,880 --> 00:12:28,475
The three
approaches give you

319
00:12:28,475 --> 00:12:32,030
a easy standard and
test number one,

320
00:12:32,030 --> 00:12:33,679
it is high and I

321
00:12:33,679 --> 00:12:35,479
think it's intended
to be high.

322
00:12:35,479 --> 00:12:37,940
I think the he was

323
00:12:37,940 --> 00:12:40,610
trying to do was
the committee was

324
00:12:40,610 --> 00:12:46,145
trying to identify
what is commercial.

325
00:12:46,145 --> 00:12:47,899
And I think what
the committee was

326
00:12:47,899 --> 00:12:49,774
trying to do
was to look at

327
00:12:49,774 --> 00:12:51,499
commercial
agricultural lands

328
00:12:51,499 --> 00:12:53,690
from a long-term
perspective.

329
00:12:53,690 --> 00:12:55,985
The committee
was trying to

330
00:12:55,985 --> 00:12:58,280
establish standards
that would

331
00:12:58,280 --> 00:13:02,240
regulate continued
agricultural be

332
00:13:02,240 --> 00:13:03,260
the continuation of

333
00:13:03,260 --> 00:13:04,849
commercial
agricultural lands

334
00:13:04,849 --> 00:13:07,054
for continued
agricultural production.

335
00:13:07,054 --> 00:13:08,149
I don t think we were

336
00:13:08,149 --> 00:13:10,370
trying to
regulate farmers.

337
00:13:10,370 --> 00:13:12,080
I don't think we
were trying to

338
00:13:12,080 --> 00:13:15,259
determine who should
qualify for a dwelling,

339
00:13:15,259 --> 00:13:18,244
but what land should
qualify for a dwelling.

340
00:13:18,244 --> 00:13:20,359
And we felt three tests

341
00:13:20,359 --> 00:13:23,699
provided the options
to be able to do that.

342
00:13:24,340 --> 00:13:26,820
Thanks.

343
00:13:27,130 --> 00:13:34,669
Burden test to the
production capability.

344
00:13:34,669 --> 00:13:36,784
First part of all of that

345
00:13:36,784 --> 00:13:42,049
is that basically the

346
00:13:42,049 --> 00:13:44,390
same as the first
part of the three,

347
00:13:44,390 --> 00:13:45,559
except the ones working

348
00:13:45,559 --> 00:13:46,940
prospectively in one's

349
00:13:46,940 --> 00:13:49,249
basing it unexperienced.

350
00:13:49,249 --> 00:13:51,395
When you come
down the income,

351
00:13:51,395 --> 00:13:52,490
gross annual income of

352
00:13:52,490 --> 00:13:53,809
at least the
midpoint between

353
00:13:53,809 --> 00:13:56,810
income range of gross
annual zooms farms?

354
00:13:56,810 --> 00:13:58,399
Well, that's in the
county rather than

355
00:13:58,399 --> 00:14:00,109
in the 1 mi perimeter?

356
00:14:00,109 --> 00:14:05,090
Yes. The test
two is basing

357
00:14:05,090 --> 00:14:08,929
the determination
of whether or not

358
00:14:08,929 --> 00:14:11,180
the subject tract
can qualify

359
00:14:11,180 --> 00:14:13,849
for a farm dwelling
on what is occurring,

360
00:14:13,849 --> 00:14:16,639
both on the acreage size,

361
00:14:16,639 --> 00:14:18,230
the median acreage size,

362
00:14:18,230 --> 00:14:19,759
as well as the
median income.

363
00:14:19,759 --> 00:14:22,519
You have to be able
to meet both of

364
00:14:22,519 --> 00:14:23,900
those in order to

365
00:14:23,900 --> 00:14:26,120
qualify for a dwelling
on the subject tract.

366
00:14:26,120 --> 00:14:28,070
And the two examples I
showed you yesterday

367
00:14:28,070 --> 00:14:30,140
was a 72 acre parcel and

368
00:14:30,140 --> 00:14:32,209
105 acre parcel that did

369
00:14:32,209 --> 00:14:35,329
not qualify
that we tested.

370
00:14:35,329 --> 00:14:37,490
You also showed some
that were down in

371
00:14:37,490 --> 00:14:40,640
the 45 range
but did qualify

372
00:14:40,640 --> 00:14:42,935
those era those those were

373
00:14:42,935 --> 00:14:46,775
the tracks that were
within the 1 mi

374
00:14:46,775 --> 00:14:50,405
that were analyzed and

375
00:14:50,405 --> 00:14:52,219
used in the
calculation to come

376
00:14:52,219 --> 00:14:54,320
up with the median figure.

377
00:14:54,320 --> 00:14:57,800
They were not tracks
that we tested.

378
00:14:57,800 --> 00:14:59,059
They were the ones that we

379
00:14:59,059 --> 00:15:00,709
used in the test to

380
00:15:00,709 --> 00:15:02,659
determine whether or
not the subject tract

381
00:15:02,659 --> 00:15:04,679
could qualify.

382
00:15:06,370 --> 00:15:10,079
Why they were part
of the non-pharm.

383
00:15:10,330 --> 00:15:13,729
Why can't the non-pharm
provision split off

384
00:15:13,729 --> 00:15:16,219
a piece of property
that's farmland.

385
00:15:16,219 --> 00:15:18,319
Why can't that
satisfy the need for

386
00:15:18,319 --> 00:15:21,080
somebody who wants
to 20 acre farm

387
00:15:21,080 --> 00:15:24,350
in Eastern
Oregon that will

388
00:15:24,350 --> 00:15:27,754
resolve some of the
issues in Eastern Oregon.

389
00:15:27,754 --> 00:15:29,299
Obviously, that's
not something that's

390
00:15:29,299 --> 00:15:32,189
available to Western
Oregon counties.

391
00:15:32,860 --> 00:15:35,029
Couldn't be. Okay.

392
00:15:35,029 --> 00:15:38,614
It's what we're
interested in,

393
00:15:38,614 --> 00:15:41,015
in Eastern Oregon though
is the true farm.

394
00:15:41,015 --> 00:15:43,369
And as I mentioned
to you yesterday,

395
00:15:43,369 --> 00:15:46,459
We still feel that a
part of this equation is

396
00:15:46,459 --> 00:15:47,660
dealing with
the second and

397
00:15:47,660 --> 00:15:49,129
third farm related
dwellings,

398
00:15:49,129 --> 00:15:51,214
which we see quite a few
applications for it.

399
00:15:51,214 --> 00:15:52,340
That's an extra issue that

400
00:15:52,340 --> 00:15:54,360
we have yet to bring up.

401
00:15:56,350 --> 00:15:58,280
Comment this point.

402
00:15:58,280 --> 00:15:59,825
I don't see why.

403
00:15:59,825 --> 00:16:01,759
It appears to me
that test two comes

404
00:16:01,759 --> 00:16:03,889
along way to what
you would like.

405
00:16:03,889 --> 00:16:07,309
Can we make that available
in eastern Oregon

406
00:16:07,309 --> 00:16:10,310
and keep my high-value
Willamette Valley.

407
00:16:10,310 --> 00:16:12,139
Well, all the other
law high byte,

408
00:16:12,139 --> 00:16:15,199
have to be based on
high-value with only test

409
00:16:15,199 --> 00:16:20,180
3's and make us do and
even test one eye.

410
00:16:20,180 --> 00:16:21,590
I could accept that on

411
00:16:21,590 --> 00:16:23,449
the EF view and in
Eastern Oregon,

412
00:16:23,449 --> 00:16:24,050
this kind of thing,

413
00:16:24,050 --> 00:16:25,189
as long as I protect well,

414
00:16:25,189 --> 00:16:28,370
I think this is the
core agriculture,

415
00:16:28,370 --> 00:16:30,500
Mary and the
state, which is

416
00:16:30,500 --> 00:16:32,119
high-value here in
the Willamette Valley

417
00:16:32,119 --> 00:16:33,409
that I only wanted
I really know.

418
00:16:33,409 --> 00:16:37,700
Well, that's a
thought handily,

419
00:16:37,700 --> 00:16:41,089
would that be a
workable scenario?

420
00:16:41,089 --> 00:16:44,315
Do you feel TO
Oregon County,

421
00:16:44,315 --> 00:16:45,410
you know, obviously I have

422
00:16:45,410 --> 00:16:48,050
a bias. No, I don't.

423
00:16:48,050 --> 00:16:49,740
Yeah.

424
00:16:52,870 --> 00:16:55,759
I guess in that
type of a question,

425
00:16:55,759 --> 00:17:00,590
I would I would hope
that you would take

426
00:17:00,590 --> 00:17:02,270
the Western Oregon
perspective

427
00:17:02,270 --> 00:17:03,890
into consideration
as well and

428
00:17:03,890 --> 00:17:04,969
possibly address some of

429
00:17:04,969 --> 00:17:06,379
the other county planners

430
00:17:06,379 --> 00:17:08,629
that are here from
Western Oregon, Canada.

431
00:17:08,629 --> 00:17:11,450
Jim, are you appointing?
Well, I just

432
00:17:11,450 --> 00:17:14,015
wanted to make a
clarification on test three.

433
00:17:14,015 --> 00:17:17,210
Test three is based not
on Indicator crops,

434
00:17:17,210 --> 00:17:18,829
it's based on
actual production.

435
00:17:18,829 --> 00:17:19,909
So you get a situation in

436
00:17:19,909 --> 00:17:21,199
Central Oregon
where somebody has

437
00:17:21,199 --> 00:17:23,854
got ten acres with
five E moves on it,

438
00:17:23,854 --> 00:17:26,190
they might meet that test.

439
00:17:26,920 --> 00:17:29,540
He moves are going
pretty high right now.

440
00:17:29,540 --> 00:17:32,849
So llamas used to be.

441
00:17:34,570 --> 00:17:36,694
But I think you
all should,

442
00:17:36,694 --> 00:17:38,660
should note that the
language that is

443
00:17:38,660 --> 00:17:40,249
proposed requires that you

444
00:17:40,249 --> 00:17:42,335
have a historical pattern.

445
00:17:42,335 --> 00:17:43,909
The last two years or

446
00:17:43,909 --> 00:17:45,410
three of the
last five years.

447
00:17:45,410 --> 00:17:49,025
And usually the situation

448
00:17:49,025 --> 00:17:52,820
is more related to a well,

449
00:17:52,820 --> 00:17:56,599
I'm going to kind of
test capability test.

450
00:17:56,599 --> 00:17:58,129
And we've tried to

451
00:17:58,129 --> 00:18:00,155
develop under
test number two,

452
00:18:00,155 --> 00:18:03,470
a methodology
that excludes

453
00:18:03,470 --> 00:18:07,564
the opportunity to
use exotic animals or

454
00:18:07,564 --> 00:18:11,539
exotic agricultural
practices that would

455
00:18:11,539 --> 00:18:15,995
qualify a tract under
a capability test.

456
00:18:15,995 --> 00:18:17,270
That was the problem that

457
00:18:17,270 --> 00:18:19,610
Doug McLain was
experiencing in

458
00:18:19,610 --> 00:18:21,260
Clark and Miss
county under

459
00:18:21,260 --> 00:18:23,120
the system that
they currently use

460
00:18:23,120 --> 00:18:24,559
is that dwellings
were being

461
00:18:24,559 --> 00:18:27,154
qualified for by
using exotics.

462
00:18:27,154 --> 00:18:29,930
The test that you
have before you,

463
00:18:29,930 --> 00:18:31,970
which Jim peas can explain

464
00:18:31,970 --> 00:18:34,700
more accurately in
detail than I can,

465
00:18:34,700 --> 00:18:39,150
excludes the
recognition of exotics.

466
00:18:39,460 --> 00:18:42,109
Can you tie it to
the definition

467
00:18:42,109 --> 00:18:43,474
of livestock in
the statute,

468
00:18:43,474 --> 00:18:45,829
which I don't
believe in an E mu

469
00:18:45,829 --> 00:18:48,799
is statutorily considered
livestock, is it?

470
00:18:48,799 --> 00:18:52,369
Whereas a horse, cow,

471
00:18:52,369 --> 00:18:54,689
even ulama would be?

472
00:18:56,320 --> 00:18:58,580
I'm trying to think
of the definition

473
00:18:58,580 --> 00:19:00,154
of livestock statue,

474
00:19:00,154 --> 00:19:03,320
but farm use is not
limited to livestock.

475
00:19:03,320 --> 00:19:04,850
It includes
animal husbandry

476
00:19:04,850 --> 00:19:06,319
or any combination
thereof.

477
00:19:06,319 --> 00:19:09,260
And so the exotics
all come in that way,

478
00:19:09,260 --> 00:19:11,464
but the test
counterbalance each other.

479
00:19:11,464 --> 00:19:13,009
Maybe my point is trying

480
00:19:13,009 --> 00:19:14,584
to establish a policy

481
00:19:14,584 --> 00:19:19,834
on i e move phobia is,

482
00:19:19,834 --> 00:19:22,709
in my opinion, ludicrous.

483
00:19:27,670 --> 00:19:30,200
I'd like to hear

484
00:19:30,200 --> 00:19:32,540
from Blair as to
what her come.

485
00:19:32,540 --> 00:19:33,860
We've asked handling
his comments

486
00:19:33,860 --> 00:19:34,924
on these tests.

487
00:19:34,924 --> 00:19:38,119
I liked, particularly
as Blair about test2.

488
00:19:38,119 --> 00:19:39,710
That's the one
that troubles me

489
00:19:39,710 --> 00:19:41,759
the most of all on.

490
00:19:41,860 --> 00:19:43,969
You also typically, we

491
00:19:43,969 --> 00:19:45,349
also have Dr. Jim piece

492
00:19:45,349 --> 00:19:49,145
here was the individual
who designed it.

493
00:19:49,145 --> 00:19:50,570
And I think we
should hear from

494
00:19:50,570 --> 00:19:52,370
him extensively
because I think

495
00:19:52,370 --> 00:19:54,544
there is a great deal
of misunderstanding

496
00:19:54,544 --> 00:19:58,040
about what those
two is. Okay.

497
00:19:58,040 --> 00:19:59,689
Thank you. Blur bats,

498
00:19:59,689 --> 00:20:01,219
1,000 friends of Oregon,

499
00:20:01,219 --> 00:20:03,710
as I testified yesterday

500
00:20:03,710 --> 00:20:06,260
and as we submitted
written comments,

501
00:20:06,260 --> 00:20:08,345
our greatest concern
about test two

502
00:20:08,345 --> 00:20:10,700
is that the uncertainty.

503
00:20:10,700 --> 00:20:12,829
I don't think that
anyone can say

504
00:20:12,829 --> 00:20:15,725
now exactly how
it will play out.

505
00:20:15,725 --> 00:20:17,779
Because it's
essentially a track

506
00:20:17,779 --> 00:20:19,369
by track decision
because you're going to

507
00:20:19,369 --> 00:20:21,064
have to make
determinations

508
00:20:21,064 --> 00:20:23,464
on a 1 mi radius
around each tracked.

509
00:20:23,464 --> 00:20:25,220
You can get some
idea of how

510
00:20:25,220 --> 00:20:27,049
it may operate in
certain areas,

511
00:20:27,049 --> 00:20:29,300
but it's going
to change a lot.

512
00:20:29,300 --> 00:20:31,520
Jim P's provided us with

513
00:20:31,520 --> 00:20:34,520
the chest as it was
played out on two tracks.

514
00:20:34,520 --> 00:20:36,815
When in Benton County,
01:00 Ms. County.

515
00:20:36,815 --> 00:20:39,379
That's pretty small
testing to sort of try to

516
00:20:39,379 --> 00:20:42,485
speculate how it's going
to apply throughout.

517
00:20:42,485 --> 00:20:46,370
Our concern is that e.g.
in the clock of Ms.

518
00:20:46,370 --> 00:20:47,929
Counties situation, all of

519
00:20:47,929 --> 00:20:49,970
the tracks that
were 17 acres

520
00:20:49,970 --> 00:20:54,109
and larger would be
eligible for dwellings.

521
00:20:54,109 --> 00:20:56,314
Now, I don't know about
that particular area,

522
00:20:56,314 --> 00:20:57,949
but as we pointed
out in our example

523
00:20:57,949 --> 00:20:59,150
of commercial farms were

524
00:20:59,150 --> 00:21:00,199
familiar with and clock in

525
00:21:00,199 --> 00:21:02,494
this county and also
in Washington County.

526
00:21:02,494 --> 00:21:04,550
That would mean that

527
00:21:04,550 --> 00:21:06,844
the majority of

528
00:21:06,844 --> 00:21:08,405
those forums and more
of the majority,

529
00:21:08,405 --> 00:21:10,714
75% of the farms,

530
00:21:10,714 --> 00:21:14,269
would end up getting
dwellings and all of

531
00:21:14,269 --> 00:21:16,549
the individual
constituent tracks

532
00:21:16,549 --> 00:21:17,749
that make up the farm.

533
00:21:17,749 --> 00:21:19,144
We think that's
a negative.

534
00:21:19,144 --> 00:21:21,620
Outcome, telling,
talking about

535
00:21:21,620 --> 00:21:25,200
Anthony retards farmed
rolling standard.

536
00:21:26,350 --> 00:21:29,075
Now actually what I gave
to you as testimony

537
00:21:29,075 --> 00:21:31,490
and there's there's
discussion.

538
00:21:31,490 --> 00:21:32,794
I'm sorry, I didn't
bring it up here.

539
00:21:32,794 --> 00:21:34,384
I think on page three

540
00:21:34,384 --> 00:21:36,469
about the farm and
clock in this county,

541
00:21:36,469 --> 00:21:37,805
and it shows that

542
00:21:37,805 --> 00:21:39,349
it's made up of a
number of tracks.

543
00:21:39,349 --> 00:21:40,369
I can't remember
now think it's

544
00:21:40,369 --> 00:21:44,014
17 ranging 5-55 acres.

545
00:21:44,014 --> 00:21:45,500
So you would reduce

546
00:21:45,500 --> 00:21:47,179
the total overall
farm size.

547
00:21:47,179 --> 00:21:49,685
I think it was
447 acres to

548
00:21:49,685 --> 00:21:51,440
a little over 100 acres if

549
00:21:51,440 --> 00:21:52,865
all those
constituents tracks

550
00:21:52,865 --> 00:21:54,514
would be eligible
for dwellings.

551
00:21:54,514 --> 00:21:55,309
That's the kind of

552
00:21:55,309 --> 00:21:56,525
thing we're
concerned about,

553
00:21:56,525 --> 00:21:58,850
is the type of farm
operations that we

554
00:21:58,850 --> 00:21:59,899
know exist in clock

555
00:21:59,899 --> 00:22:01,369
miss in Washington County,

556
00:22:01,369 --> 00:22:04,055
which are made up
of many tracks

557
00:22:04,055 --> 00:22:06,020
of varying sizes,

558
00:22:06,020 --> 00:22:10,219
2-3 to four to 12 mi
apart from each other.

559
00:22:10,219 --> 00:22:12,065
If each one were eligible

560
00:22:12,065 --> 00:22:14,284
for a dwelling
under this test,

561
00:22:14,284 --> 00:22:16,039
what would that
ultimate effect

562
00:22:16,039 --> 00:22:17,870
be on those commercial
operations?

563
00:22:17,870 --> 00:22:20,044
Would you be breaking
them up by allowing

564
00:22:20,044 --> 00:22:22,159
each individual
constituent part of

565
00:22:22,159 --> 00:22:23,689
the form operation to be

566
00:22:23,689 --> 00:22:25,924
considered a farm
with a dwelling.

567
00:22:25,924 --> 00:22:28,039
And in fact,
those lands maybe

568
00:22:28,039 --> 00:22:30,545
become available for
rural home sites.

569
00:22:30,545 --> 00:22:33,139
If if that opportunity

570
00:22:33,139 --> 00:22:34,745
to do to build a house,

571
00:22:34,745 --> 00:22:36,184
is there a new home,

572
00:22:36,184 --> 00:22:38,524
It's were somewhat
concerned about that.

573
00:22:38,524 --> 00:22:42,979
Anthony's memo goes into
the issue of is the

574
00:22:42,979 --> 00:22:45,319
median the correct
determinant of

575
00:22:45,319 --> 00:22:48,394
what's typical farm
unit in the area.

576
00:22:48,394 --> 00:22:50,764
And I think that the
technical committee

577
00:22:50,764 --> 00:22:52,460
recognized that
this may be

578
00:22:52,460 --> 00:22:55,969
a problem in that
if you have an area

579
00:22:55,969 --> 00:22:57,949
that where I think
the example that

580
00:22:57,949 --> 00:22:58,999
Anthony gave and I wish he

581
00:22:58,999 --> 00:23:00,065
would come up here.

582
00:23:00,065 --> 00:23:04,139
There was yelled at him.
Address this issue.

583
00:23:06,130 --> 00:23:08,449
Before you go on,
can you let me

584
00:23:08,449 --> 00:23:09,865
know whether this area
and collect them,

585
00:23:09,865 --> 00:23:11,359
Scotty would likely
be high-value

586
00:23:11,359 --> 00:23:12,485
or whether it's you,

587
00:23:12,485 --> 00:23:13,594
which way are we
looking at here?

588
00:23:13,594 --> 00:23:15,140
It would be high-value.

589
00:23:15,140 --> 00:23:16,979
Definitely.

590
00:23:17,530 --> 00:23:21,320
The question is this
comes as, I guess,

591
00:23:21,320 --> 00:23:25,550
introductory
statistics to this

592
00:23:25,550 --> 00:23:29,810
comes into a point
of using the median.

593
00:23:29,810 --> 00:23:34,324
In this test is Professor
pieces proposed.

594
00:23:34,324 --> 00:23:35,870
He proposes using

595
00:23:35,870 --> 00:23:37,970
the median tract
in an area.

596
00:23:37,970 --> 00:23:42,139
And tracks are not land
units as a problem,

597
00:23:42,139 --> 00:23:44,809
they are, there are
administrative units.

598
00:23:44,809 --> 00:23:46,700
They are lines
drawn on a map.

599
00:23:46,700 --> 00:23:49,699
The unit that we

600
00:23:49,699 --> 00:23:53,120
use to describe an
area is the acre.

601
00:23:53,120 --> 00:23:55,504
We describe income
and it's $1.

602
00:23:55,504 --> 00:23:57,409
But in this case,

603
00:23:57,409 --> 00:23:59,449
I looked at
these situations

604
00:23:59,449 --> 00:24:01,085
and got very
concerned because I

605
00:24:01,085 --> 00:24:01,969
noticed that when you

606
00:24:01,969 --> 00:24:03,664
have several
smaller tracks

607
00:24:03,664 --> 00:24:05,330
that pushes down
the median,

608
00:24:05,330 --> 00:24:07,954
which is just the
midpoint tract.

609
00:24:07,954 --> 00:24:08,869
Some of the tracks are

610
00:24:08,869 --> 00:24:10,339
large, some are smaller,

611
00:24:10,339 --> 00:24:13,475
and it tends to skew
the results downward.

612
00:24:13,475 --> 00:24:14,795
Now this is recognized

613
00:24:14,795 --> 00:24:17,029
when Professor
Pease looked

614
00:24:17,029 --> 00:24:18,979
at developing

615
00:24:18,979 --> 00:24:21,470
gross income statistics
for soil types.

616
00:24:21,470 --> 00:24:23,270
He is a weighted average.

617
00:24:23,270 --> 00:24:25,399
And I think that you need

618
00:24:25,399 --> 00:24:26,690
to understand why you

619
00:24:26,690 --> 00:24:27,920
had to use a
weighted average.

620
00:24:27,920 --> 00:24:29,469
And that is that

621
00:24:29,469 --> 00:24:31,579
some crops which
are grown in

622
00:24:31,579 --> 00:24:33,785
very small areas may
be very high value,

623
00:24:33,785 --> 00:24:35,330
they would skew
the results.

624
00:24:35,330 --> 00:24:38,254
Likewise, several
small tracks

625
00:24:38,254 --> 00:24:39,800
will skew the results.

626
00:24:39,800 --> 00:24:43,039
So what I've
proposed here and

627
00:24:43,039 --> 00:24:44,390
discuss is the use of

628
00:24:44,390 --> 00:24:46,399
what is called
the median acre.

629
00:24:46,399 --> 00:24:49,010
This effectively
weights it,

630
00:24:49,010 --> 00:24:50,810
accomplishes the same.

631
00:24:50,810 --> 00:24:52,580
And what you would do
is you would look at

632
00:24:52,580 --> 00:24:55,249
that acre that's
right in the middle.

633
00:24:55,249 --> 00:24:57,410
And you look at the parcel

634
00:24:57,410 --> 00:25:00,169
associated with that
acre and you would say,

635
00:25:00,169 --> 00:25:02,269
what is that typical?
I don't know.

636
00:25:02,269 --> 00:25:03,830
This is this is a question

637
00:25:03,830 --> 00:25:05,000
that you had to
grapple with,

638
00:25:05,000 --> 00:25:06,565
but if you're using
the median as it,

639
00:25:06,565 --> 00:25:09,814
as an indicator of
something that's typical.

640
00:25:09,814 --> 00:25:12,110
I think you should
use the median acre.

641
00:25:12,110 --> 00:25:14,914
Acre being the unit
of measure for

642
00:25:14,914 --> 00:25:16,759
area rather than

643
00:25:16,759 --> 00:25:19,985
the median tract,
which is a,

644
00:25:19,985 --> 00:25:21,875
an administrative
unit with

645
00:25:21,875 --> 00:25:24,289
all the land and
the area is in

646
00:25:24,289 --> 00:25:26,570
tracks that are larger
than that size or

647
00:25:26,570 --> 00:25:27,709
smaller than that size as

648
00:25:27,709 --> 00:25:29,030
opposed to looking
at the track.

649
00:25:29,030 --> 00:25:30,620
So you're trying
to figure out

650
00:25:30,620 --> 00:25:32,779
what track size its
characteristics

651
00:25:32,779 --> 00:25:34,490
are typical of an area.

652
00:25:34,490 --> 00:25:36,619
You look at what half

653
00:25:36,619 --> 00:25:39,170
of the landmass
is in inches,

654
00:25:39,170 --> 00:25:40,730
what size trachs they
are instead of just

655
00:25:40,730 --> 00:25:42,859
how what the number
of tracks has.

656
00:25:42,859 --> 00:25:44,749
And that's, I think
if you just look at

657
00:25:44,749 --> 00:25:46,759
the example
that's attached

658
00:25:46,759 --> 00:25:48,425
to Anthony's memo
and the back,

659
00:25:48,425 --> 00:25:50,225
you see what happens
when you use

660
00:25:50,225 --> 00:25:53,465
the median track size,

661
00:25:53,465 --> 00:25:55,909
that you have a group
of small parcels that

662
00:25:55,909 --> 00:25:58,369
make up our attracts
excuse me, that makeup,

663
00:25:58,369 --> 00:26:00,079
I think it was
less than 14% of

664
00:26:00,079 --> 00:26:01,550
the total area being

665
00:26:01,550 --> 00:26:03,334
the determination of
what the medium was.

666
00:26:03,334 --> 00:26:06,250
Whereas, you know, 60,

667
00:26:06,250 --> 00:26:08,599
74% of the whole landmass

668
00:26:08,599 --> 00:26:09,874
was a much larger tracks.

669
00:26:09,874 --> 00:26:11,029
So you get skewed.

670
00:26:11,029 --> 00:26:13,624
Results are 84%.
Sorry my math is off.

671
00:26:13,624 --> 00:26:14,179
Yeah.

672
00:26:14,179 --> 00:26:15,859
In the case of,

673
00:26:15,859 --> 00:26:17,689
in the case of
example one chart,

674
00:26:17,689 --> 00:26:20,495
one you can see
the median falls,

675
00:26:20,495 --> 00:26:21,709
the median tract, which is

676
00:26:21,709 --> 00:26:23,239
half the tracks are
larger, have to track.

677
00:26:23,239 --> 00:26:25,790
So for small folds at

678
00:26:25,790 --> 00:26:28,235
the 24% area where

679
00:26:28,235 --> 00:26:31,354
24% of the
acreage is less,

680
00:26:31,354 --> 00:26:33,874
71% of the
acreage is more.

681
00:26:33,874 --> 00:26:35,254
It's not the
balanced point.

682
00:26:35,254 --> 00:26:36,349
It's not a, it's not

683
00:26:36,349 --> 00:26:38,120
a good balance point for

684
00:26:38,120 --> 00:26:40,385
finding what's
typical in an area.

685
00:26:40,385 --> 00:26:42,244
And the the the,

686
00:26:42,244 --> 00:26:44,630
the acre tract
associated with

687
00:26:44,630 --> 00:26:48,064
the median acre
would be that that

688
00:26:48,064 --> 00:26:50,599
tractors were
half the acreage

689
00:26:50,599 --> 00:26:52,429
is half the acreage is

690
00:26:52,429 --> 00:26:54,379
in tracts of that
size or larger,

691
00:26:54,379 --> 00:26:55,790
half the tracks
or an acreage

692
00:26:55,790 --> 00:26:58,429
is that size and smaller.

693
00:26:58,429 --> 00:27:00,290
I'm looking, I see
some puzzled faces

694
00:27:00,290 --> 00:27:02,375
and welcome
some questions.

695
00:27:02,375 --> 00:27:03,890
Basically the
difference there

696
00:27:03,890 --> 00:27:05,059
I'm looking at
your sample one

697
00:27:05,059 --> 00:27:07,009
is that the taking

698
00:27:07,009 --> 00:27:08,314
the media and the way
it's written now,

699
00:27:08,314 --> 00:27:11,810
you've got a 72 acre
average track size.

700
00:27:11,810 --> 00:27:12,890
So when you take
your definition

701
00:27:12,890 --> 00:27:14,705
here of 112, yes.

702
00:27:14,705 --> 00:27:17,360
It's actually a 7,079.59.

703
00:27:17,360 --> 00:27:23,120
Thank you. And
in the next one,

704
00:27:23,120 --> 00:27:29,164
you have a shark to

705
00:27:29,164 --> 00:27:36,665
have a median is going
to flip through a few.

706
00:27:36,665 --> 00:27:38,525
The median is actually on

707
00:27:38,525 --> 00:27:40,159
the median acre
is actually

708
00:27:40,159 --> 00:27:43,250
on the largest holding
in that operation.

709
00:27:43,250 --> 00:27:44,794
And that's because
that whole thing,

710
00:27:44,794 --> 00:27:48,110
that single farm
is about 400.406

711
00:27:48,110 --> 00:27:52,309
acres and represents
a majority

712
00:27:52,309 --> 00:27:54,544
of that area
like it or not.

713
00:27:54,544 --> 00:27:56,795
In this case, as I,

714
00:27:56,795 --> 00:27:58,864
as I noted in my texts,

715
00:27:58,864 --> 00:28:00,380
the area is
surrounded either by

716
00:28:00,380 --> 00:28:05,734
woodlot or or
residential urban areas.

717
00:28:05,734 --> 00:28:06,529
So it's actually

718
00:28:06,529 --> 00:28:07,729
a smaller area
than you would

719
00:28:07,729 --> 00:28:10,370
normally get within
a 1 mi radius,

720
00:28:10,370 --> 00:28:12,845
which is 2011 acres.

721
00:28:12,845 --> 00:28:14,540
I think you're getting
to a point that's

722
00:28:14,540 --> 00:28:15,920
been bothered me for

723
00:28:15,920 --> 00:28:17,719
a long time
with the use of

724
00:28:17,719 --> 00:28:19,640
the median in any
circumstances,

725
00:28:19,640 --> 00:28:23,810
it seems that it
has the result

726
00:28:23,810 --> 00:28:25,909
inevitably of
driving down over

727
00:28:25,909 --> 00:28:28,729
time the farm size.

728
00:28:28,729 --> 00:28:30,289
And if we're talking

729
00:28:30,289 --> 00:28:32,030
about long-term
preservation,

730
00:28:32,030 --> 00:28:33,260
we should be talking at

731
00:28:33,260 --> 00:28:36,274
the 75 percentile
level or something.

732
00:28:36,274 --> 00:28:38,314
Or maybe use a different,

733
00:28:38,314 --> 00:28:39,799
a different definition of

734
00:28:39,799 --> 00:28:41,360
median as you're
suggesting here.

735
00:28:41,360 --> 00:28:42,559
But we shouldn't be

736
00:28:42,559 --> 00:28:44,600
going for a lowest
common denominator.

737
00:28:44,600 --> 00:28:45,995
We should be
trying to preserve

738
00:28:45,995 --> 00:28:48,290
long-term commercial
viability and not

739
00:28:48,290 --> 00:28:50,569
trying to
encourage driving

740
00:28:50,569 --> 00:28:52,984
down and the
size over time.

741
00:28:52,984 --> 00:28:56,314
Anyway, that was
the final concern.

742
00:28:56,314 --> 00:28:58,969
I think not the
final concern,

743
00:28:58,969 --> 00:29:00,785
but another concern is
simply with this test

744
00:29:00,785 --> 00:29:03,005
is There's been so
much discussion

745
00:29:03,005 --> 00:29:04,130
about a desire for

746
00:29:04,130 --> 00:29:06,409
the Commission to
have regulations that

747
00:29:06,409 --> 00:29:07,729
are comprehensible to the

748
00:29:07,729 --> 00:29:09,919
public and clear
and understandable.

749
00:29:09,919 --> 00:29:12,035
This is an objective test

750
00:29:12,035 --> 00:29:13,250
and it's something
that the counties

751
00:29:13,250 --> 00:29:14,839
can figure out and
understand and

752
00:29:14,839 --> 00:29:16,819
apply with the
commission's assistance.

753
00:29:16,819 --> 00:29:18,875
I think it would meet
those requirements.

754
00:29:18,875 --> 00:29:20,689
But it is terribly
complicated

755
00:29:20,689 --> 00:29:21,769
and it's very difficult to

756
00:29:21,769 --> 00:29:23,690
understand what
policy it's

757
00:29:23,690 --> 00:29:25,789
promoting. The
public looks at it.

758
00:29:25,789 --> 00:29:26,389
It's the kind of

759
00:29:26,389 --> 00:29:28,040
thing where I think
the state gets

760
00:29:28,040 --> 00:29:29,779
a tremendous amount
of criticism

761
00:29:29,779 --> 00:29:31,129
because it just,

762
00:29:31,129 --> 00:29:32,540
it's just
difficult to make

763
00:29:32,540 --> 00:29:34,294
sense or heads
or tails of it.

764
00:29:34,294 --> 00:29:36,319
Because we're
often defending

765
00:29:36,319 --> 00:29:38,525
you and defending
the program.

766
00:29:38,525 --> 00:29:40,819
It's difficult to
defend this kind of

767
00:29:40,819 --> 00:29:43,579
regulation. It really is.

768
00:29:43,579 --> 00:29:45,289
It's another public policy

769
00:29:45,289 --> 00:29:46,340
considerations separate

770
00:29:46,340 --> 00:29:49,040
from the ground
impacts of the test.

771
00:29:49,040 --> 00:29:50,869
We should we should
reject easy.

772
00:29:50,869 --> 00:29:52,730
So here for peace.
Okay, thank you.

773
00:29:52,730 --> 00:29:54,630
Thank you.

774
00:30:09,370 --> 00:30:13,249
I do. I always get them
for 30 times slot.

775
00:30:13,249 --> 00:30:14,929
Refresh your classes are

776
00:30:14,929 --> 00:30:16,249
scheduled and we put the

777
00:30:16,249 --> 00:30:21,090
tough yeah, you
set that up.

778
00:30:28,810 --> 00:30:30,950
You didn't have to
sit here all day

779
00:30:30,950 --> 00:30:33,119
waiting to get to 430.

780
00:30:33,820 --> 00:30:36,839
We're going to pass out.

781
00:30:55,660 --> 00:30:58,790
I wasn't intending to
get into the third one.

782
00:30:58,790 --> 00:31:04,020
I'm less desire to
have the information.

783
00:31:08,320 --> 00:31:12,229
My work, this is the
this is the area

784
00:31:12,229 --> 00:31:21,989
that was passed around.

785
00:31:25,090 --> 00:31:36,335
Math here. I would
like to mention

786
00:31:36,335 --> 00:31:41,315
that the

787
00:31:41,315 --> 00:31:49,320
agricultural work culture.

788
00:31:55,420 --> 00:32:06,660
Error handling example
in your slides room.

789
00:32:07,420 --> 00:32:10,669
No. Two tests are

790
00:32:10,669 --> 00:32:12,485
two tracks that
I showed you.

791
00:32:12,485 --> 00:32:22,025
You have to ask,

792
00:32:22,025 --> 00:32:23,405
I can't see this gym.

793
00:32:23,405 --> 00:32:24,170
So you're going to have

794
00:32:24,170 --> 00:32:24,950
to tell us what it is.

795
00:32:24,950 --> 00:32:26,599
You're looking at the

796
00:32:26,599 --> 00:32:27,830
first page of the handout?

797
00:32:27,830 --> 00:32:29,120
Benton County. Okay.

798
00:32:29,120 --> 00:32:30,560
Okay.

799
00:32:30,560 --> 00:32:32,615
Veteran County.

800
00:32:32,615 --> 00:32:37,520
Oh, okay.

801
00:32:37,520 --> 00:32:40,730
I got it now, anyway.

802
00:32:40,730 --> 00:32:45,749
And we simply took apart
this parcel of air,

803
00:32:48,730 --> 00:32:51,140
parcel of miles
to the west

804
00:32:51,140 --> 00:32:53,599
of Bellefonte,
Airport Road.

805
00:32:53,599 --> 00:32:58,835
In this scenario,

806
00:32:58,835 --> 00:33:02,629
mixed agriculture is a
lot of small parcels.

807
00:33:02,629 --> 00:33:08,820
Some wires parcels
from a rural area.

808
00:33:09,460 --> 00:33:13,890
This particular 1 mi
area that we looked at.

809
00:33:18,670 --> 00:33:24,695
In fact, a lot of
articles that were 5-28,

810
00:33:24,695 --> 00:33:28,564
that was on VFD,
on tax deferral.

811
00:33:28,564 --> 00:33:31,130
Dropped off so they
don't show up on

812
00:33:31,130 --> 00:33:39,290
a roll out or dropped out.

813
00:33:39,290 --> 00:33:41,885
So as you can see,

814
00:33:41,885 --> 00:33:45,125
the are still here.

815
00:33:45,125 --> 00:33:51,274
Particle size buried
for the smallest size,

816
00:33:51,274 --> 00:34:00,809
walk by $4,000
threshold up to 258.

817
00:34:01,690 --> 00:34:05,780
And Rosales varied
from about $10,000 up

818
00:34:05,780 --> 00:34:14,734
to the median was about
eight years, 79.59.

819
00:34:14,734 --> 00:34:21,690
By 30,880 gross sales.

820
00:34:24,340 --> 00:34:27,019
I don't think this
is difficult for

821
00:34:27,019 --> 00:34:29,149
anybody to grasp in
terms of concept.

822
00:34:29,149 --> 00:34:30,815
You're looking at an area

823
00:34:30,815 --> 00:34:37,380
around within a mile
comparing this tract.

824
00:34:38,470 --> 00:34:41,029
Rest of the time
that has to be a

825
00:34:41,029 --> 00:34:45,089
metanarrative.
That's the idea.

826
00:34:46,090 --> 00:34:48,230
Particularly African had

827
00:34:48,230 --> 00:34:54,620
a 34 acres are irrigated.

828
00:34:54,620 --> 00:35:00,139
And so the numbers
came up with $12,000.

829
00:35:00,139 --> 00:35:02,239
Ventral gross sales
officer doesn't

830
00:35:02,239 --> 00:35:06,780
qualify for the permit.

831
00:35:07,390 --> 00:35:10,414
Have these 80 acres
and be able to

832
00:35:10,414 --> 00:35:14,310
roll over 31,000
qualified.

833
00:35:16,030 --> 00:35:18,379
That's the bed count test.

834
00:35:18,379 --> 00:35:22,010
When you come on in offer.

835
00:35:22,010 --> 00:35:24,650
Quite different
compliant with respect

836
00:35:24,650 --> 00:35:28,039
to what area it looks at.

837
00:35:28,039 --> 00:35:31,684
Agriculture is
certainly not.

838
00:35:31,684 --> 00:35:34,024
Because I asked
you a question.

839
00:35:34,024 --> 00:35:36,049
You said 12 acres,

840
00:35:36,049 --> 00:35:37,579
you say quoting proportion

841
00:35:37,579 --> 00:35:40,805
with what you said?

842
00:35:40,805 --> 00:35:43,199
Unimpeded?

843
00:35:43,750 --> 00:35:45,784
88.

844
00:35:45,784 --> 00:35:47,749
I just misunderstood you.

845
00:35:47,749 --> 00:35:50,700
I thank you. Okay.

846
00:35:53,380 --> 00:35:55,819
Blackman's counted,
as you can see from

847
00:35:55,819 --> 00:35:58,530
the bathroom passed
around here,

848
00:36:00,190 --> 00:36:05,119
that particular parcel was

849
00:36:05,119 --> 00:36:08,509
a parcel that actually
had applied for

850
00:36:08,509 --> 00:36:12,920
affirmative parcels
argument the process.

851
00:36:12,920 --> 00:36:15,110
So that was interesting
to look at it,

852
00:36:15,110 --> 00:36:18,529
see how this
procedure compared to

853
00:36:18,529 --> 00:36:25,310
the county as
actually an area

854
00:36:25,310 --> 00:36:27,560
almost entirely
of dairy farming

855
00:36:27,560 --> 00:36:30,360
and horticulture
bottoms higher.

856
00:36:30,490 --> 00:36:34,174
Intensive farming
on small parcels.

857
00:36:34,174 --> 00:36:35,944
Most of the parcels
in that area

858
00:36:35,944 --> 00:36:37,880
are in fact small.

859
00:36:37,880 --> 00:36:40,070
And most of them I

860
00:36:40,070 --> 00:36:43,049
think Doug said
before he left,

861
00:36:43,870 --> 00:36:49,529
nearly all the wires.
Have houses on.

862
00:36:51,130 --> 00:36:53,659
Anyway, the media
and it came out

863
00:36:53,659 --> 00:36:55,939
here, the median size.

864
00:36:55,939 --> 00:36:58,309
Well, we started up here.

865
00:36:58,309 --> 00:37:00,860
In contrast to
Benton County,

866
00:37:00,860 --> 00:37:01,670
where are you
going to have

867
00:37:01,670 --> 00:37:03,079
over 20 acres needed to

868
00:37:03,079 --> 00:37:05,825
be able to girls
thousand dollars.

869
00:37:05,825 --> 00:37:10,219
Particular area,
this area parcel of

870
00:37:10,219 --> 00:37:16,020
4.92 acres at a potential
of grossing 13,800.

871
00:37:17,710 --> 00:37:20,569
That was that was
a size that was

872
00:37:20,569 --> 00:37:23,255
used as the smallest side.

873
00:37:23,255 --> 00:37:26,779
And then the largest
track was 106.

874
00:37:26,779 --> 00:37:31,859
So the median
was 15.75 acres.

875
00:37:33,580 --> 00:37:36,649
Girls Snell's law report

876
00:37:36,649 --> 00:37:41,989
$1,000 applicant
at 37 acres

877
00:37:41,989 --> 00:37:48,829
irrigated and girls sales

878
00:37:48,829 --> 00:37:50,870
and you not to be
about $111,000.

879
00:37:50,870 --> 00:37:53,750
Subtract. If you look
at the history of that.

880
00:37:53,750 --> 00:37:55,489
In fact, I had a little
bit of a glimpse

881
00:37:55,489 --> 00:37:57,499
into that because
the applicant I

882
00:37:57,499 --> 00:38:00,425
did have a copy of
the application

883
00:38:00,425 --> 00:38:03,530
versus turned in
on the application

884
00:38:03,530 --> 00:38:06,889
that he had shown that
that parcel had been

885
00:38:06,889 --> 00:38:12,450
varies a bit crossing
90,000 here, marries.

886
00:38:12,700 --> 00:38:15,604
He was converting
it to horticulture.

887
00:38:15,604 --> 00:38:17,060
He was asked what he was

888
00:38:17,060 --> 00:38:21,270
going across.
Thousand dollars.

889
00:38:23,680 --> 00:38:28,625
So I think what
this test does is

890
00:38:28,625 --> 00:38:35,600
it basically
allows process,

891
00:38:35,600 --> 00:38:38,900
but look at particular
circumstances.

892
00:38:38,900 --> 00:38:41,090
Either a part of
what county are

893
00:38:41,090 --> 00:38:45,470
different counties
in state standards,

894
00:38:45,470 --> 00:38:47,044
those kinds of
comparisons,

895
00:38:47,044 --> 00:38:48,649
I said by wanted

896
00:38:48,649 --> 00:38:51,090
to actually exist
on the ground.

897
00:38:53,970 --> 00:38:57,159
Now, as far as how
we get the data,

898
00:38:57,159 --> 00:38:59,065
I wasn't gonna get
into that today.

899
00:38:59,065 --> 00:39:00,310
We really want
to hear this.

900
00:39:00,310 --> 00:39:04,120
I can walk through
it. Frankly, it's

901
00:39:04,120 --> 00:39:05,724
more complicated
to explain.

902
00:39:05,724 --> 00:39:07,015
This will apply.

903
00:39:07,015 --> 00:39:12,439
And simply, simple
idea is that

904
00:39:13,200 --> 00:39:16,419
that we were trying

905
00:39:16,419 --> 00:39:18,340
to set up a standardized
procedure to get

906
00:39:18,340 --> 00:39:19,930
some numbers that
were based on

907
00:39:19,930 --> 00:39:23,109
stable indicator crops,
not exotic crops.

908
00:39:23,109 --> 00:39:24,805
And they were based on

909
00:39:24,805 --> 00:39:28,359
your chose three
indicator crops

910
00:39:28,359 --> 00:39:31,400
for irrigated lands and
non irrigated lands.

911
00:39:31,740 --> 00:39:34,330
And the indicated crops

912
00:39:34,330 --> 00:39:37,055
were chosen basis
of acreage.

913
00:39:37,055 --> 00:39:39,049
That is, those that had

914
00:39:39,049 --> 00:39:40,340
the highest
eighth roots were

915
00:39:40,340 --> 00:39:42,455
chosen for the
indicator crops.

916
00:39:42,455 --> 00:39:45,230
Idea that wants
to represent

917
00:39:45,230 --> 00:39:47,645
the pattern of land

918
00:39:47,645 --> 00:39:48,979
used in agriculture that's

919
00:39:48,979 --> 00:39:50,764
actually going
on in the area,

920
00:39:50,764 --> 00:39:52,295
rather than choosing

921
00:39:52,295 --> 00:39:53,824
exactly the case
performance.

922
00:39:53,824 --> 00:39:55,099
In fact, in
this county, we

923
00:39:55,099 --> 00:39:56,765
did not use watercolor

924
00:39:56,765 --> 00:40:02,030
because that was not a
wasn't enough acres.

925
00:40:02,030 --> 00:40:04,519
Even though
horticulture is as far

926
00:40:04,519 --> 00:40:06,245
away as valuable property,

927
00:40:06,245 --> 00:40:09,859
like the indicator
prompts,

928
00:40:09,859 --> 00:40:17,190
there are festivals,
areas, orchards.

929
00:40:22,420 --> 00:40:25,580
Hey case that.
The other thing I

930
00:40:25,580 --> 00:40:27,859
wanted to mention
was that I did

931
00:40:27,859 --> 00:40:29,809
send the questionnaire
questionnaire out

932
00:40:29,809 --> 00:40:33,454
to assessors
around the state.

933
00:40:33,454 --> 00:40:35,404
I was trying to find out

934
00:40:35,404 --> 00:40:37,520
all counties apply

935
00:40:37,520 --> 00:40:39,145
this test to be
some problems.

936
00:40:39,145 --> 00:40:41,789
Some counties and trying
to apply the test.

937
00:40:42,010 --> 00:40:45,529
Because the test uses
two sorts of beta.

938
00:40:45,529 --> 00:40:46,760
One is this source and

939
00:40:46,760 --> 00:40:49,895
lay with the extension
annual reports.

940
00:40:49,895 --> 00:40:53,819
Any other source is
the assessment data.

941
00:40:54,310 --> 00:40:57,139
By state law,
the assessors

942
00:40:57,139 --> 00:40:59,315
have to keep records
of every tract

943
00:40:59,315 --> 00:41:05,870
in by soil type
of rotation.

944
00:41:05,870 --> 00:41:08,210
So if you look up at
anytime even stage,

945
00:41:08,210 --> 00:41:12,590
if you look up the track

946
00:41:12,590 --> 00:41:14,629
that's getting
tax deferral,

947
00:41:14,629 --> 00:41:16,219
assessment data
has to show

948
00:41:16,219 --> 00:41:18,034
all the cell types
but assure again,

949
00:41:18,034 --> 00:41:22,129
not very specific
to the track.

950
00:41:22,129 --> 00:41:24,650
And so we use

951
00:41:24,650 --> 00:41:26,180
that data source
along with

952
00:41:26,180 --> 00:41:29,430
this one here to make
the data science.

953
00:41:31,390 --> 00:41:35,700
So I don't have to
answer your questions.

954
00:41:35,710 --> 00:41:38,120
Well, I guess
that I looked at

955
00:41:38,120 --> 00:41:39,530
these two tracks and if

956
00:41:39,530 --> 00:41:41,044
you've been
limited only to

957
00:41:41,044 --> 00:41:42,965
your test number three,

958
00:41:42,965 --> 00:41:44,509
each would have
come out the same

959
00:41:44,509 --> 00:41:46,414
your flack from us county,

960
00:41:46,414 --> 00:41:48,260
hundred and 11,000 he
could have grossed

961
00:41:48,260 --> 00:41:50,209
is 80,000 that we've

962
00:41:50,209 --> 00:41:51,739
been discussing
for a high-value

963
00:41:51,739 --> 00:41:53,390
and Benton County

964
00:41:53,390 --> 00:41:54,575
one could not have

965
00:41:54,575 --> 00:41:56,960
achieved it. Is
that correct?

966
00:41:56,960 --> 00:41:58,560
Right.

967
00:42:04,810 --> 00:42:07,475
Same result. Same
result. Fine.

968
00:42:07,475 --> 00:42:10,970
Except that the
committee came

969
00:42:10,970 --> 00:42:12,320
up with a menu rather than

970
00:42:12,320 --> 00:42:14,960
the single test three,

971
00:42:14,960 --> 00:42:18,559
was that the committee's
recommendation

972
00:42:18,559 --> 00:42:20,900
wireframes that

973
00:42:20,900 --> 00:42:22,939
the applicant

974
00:42:22,939 --> 00:42:25,669
actually have
raised the prompts

975
00:42:25,669 --> 00:42:31,639
two years or two
consecutive years.

976
00:42:31,639 --> 00:42:33,719
And throughout
the three years.

977
00:42:36,850 --> 00:42:39,695
There's another
difference too.

978
00:42:39,695 --> 00:42:41,630
Under the test, the Dr.

979
00:42:41,630 --> 00:42:43,489
piece is describing there

980
00:42:43,489 --> 00:42:45,109
are no circumstances
under which

981
00:42:45,109 --> 00:42:47,135
that 80 acres
would qualify.

982
00:42:47,135 --> 00:42:48,649
But the person
who has that

983
00:42:48,649 --> 00:42:51,094
80 80 acres could put in

984
00:42:51,094 --> 00:42:54,770
a high-value crop and
after several years,

985
00:42:54,770 --> 00:42:57,389
meet the $80,000 tests.

986
00:42:58,360 --> 00:43:00,499
Mr. Chair.

987
00:43:00,499 --> 00:43:03,095
One of the witnesses

988
00:43:03,095 --> 00:43:06,860
alleged that this is
difficult to understand,

989
00:43:06,860 --> 00:43:09,679
difficult to administer
in mind boggling for

990
00:43:09,679 --> 00:43:12,020
the public was wondering

991
00:43:12,020 --> 00:43:14,330
if Jim might want
to respond to it.

992
00:43:14,330 --> 00:43:15,980
And I know the Commission

993
00:43:15,980 --> 00:43:17,870
has acknowledged
this approach and

994
00:43:17,870 --> 00:43:20,494
it's in operation and
at least one county in

995
00:43:20,494 --> 00:43:23,854
Oregon and possibly
two counties.

996
00:43:23,854 --> 00:43:27,140
With the experience in
those two counties,

997
00:43:27,140 --> 00:43:29,180
maybe Jim might be

998
00:43:29,180 --> 00:43:30,770
able to say how
it's working

999
00:43:30,770 --> 00:43:31,999
in those two counties or

1000
00:43:31,999 --> 00:43:33,200
possibly if people are

1001
00:43:33,200 --> 00:43:34,520
here from those
two counties,

1002
00:43:34,520 --> 00:43:37,280
they can talk about
how it's working

1003
00:43:37,280 --> 00:43:41,189
and how understandable
it is to the public.

1004
00:43:42,550 --> 00:43:44,555
I should have clarified

1005
00:43:44,555 --> 00:43:45,424
when they started that.

1006
00:43:45,424 --> 00:43:46,700
I don't want really

1007
00:43:46,700 --> 00:43:47,359
personally to be in

1008
00:43:47,359 --> 00:43:49,560
a position of
advocating this.

1009
00:43:49,990 --> 00:43:55,189
I remember the help

1010
00:43:55,189 --> 00:43:56,780
them come up with
objective ways

1011
00:43:56,780 --> 00:43:59,944
to test that with

1012
00:43:59,944 --> 00:44:02,869
different missions

1013
00:44:02,869 --> 00:44:04,579
throughout the
state of Florida,

1014
00:44:04,579 --> 00:44:09,419
not share unrelated to
advocate this test.

1015
00:44:15,700 --> 00:44:18,545
I know that
several counties

1016
00:44:18,545 --> 00:44:22,024
look back over the
last 1015 years.

1017
00:44:22,024 --> 00:44:24,454
Many companies
have applied

1018
00:44:24,454 --> 00:44:25,684
some kind of test.

1019
00:44:25,684 --> 00:44:29,340
Looking at the area
around 1 mi area.

1020
00:44:29,560 --> 00:44:33,769
We're renewing firearm
permit applications

1021
00:44:33,769 --> 00:44:36,870
on a case-by-case basis
is a fairly common.

1022
00:44:37,240 --> 00:44:39,290
It gets to be very time

1023
00:44:39,290 --> 00:44:40,700
consuming for staff to

1024
00:44:40,700 --> 00:44:42,709
gather data

1025
00:44:42,709 --> 00:44:45,184
individually on each
of these tracks.

1026
00:44:45,184 --> 00:44:47,900
Example, Blackmun's
County currently

1027
00:44:47,900 --> 00:44:51,065
uses 1 mi area,

1028
00:44:51,065 --> 00:44:52,610
but they have
different way

1029
00:44:52,610 --> 00:44:54,215
to develop a database.

1030
00:44:54,215 --> 00:44:58,565
And Doug says that takes
us to a minor above

1031
00:44:58,565 --> 00:45:08,524
by assembling this test.

1032
00:45:08,524 --> 00:45:12,260
Once, once the numbers
are degenerated,

1033
00:45:12,260 --> 00:45:14,569
the Blackmun's
counting numbers

1034
00:45:14,569 --> 00:45:17,100
are generated
for each county.

1035
00:45:17,560 --> 00:45:21,589
Probably be speaking a
matter of a few hours,

1036
00:45:21,589 --> 00:45:26,600
5 h. Noting their
assembly of

1037
00:45:26,600 --> 00:45:31,400
math in terms of
efficiency of staff time,

1038
00:45:31,400 --> 00:45:36,989
I think not a
difficult festival.

1039
00:45:40,840 --> 00:45:43,579
Scotty is using a
similar procedure

1040
00:45:43,579 --> 00:45:46,234
now as mundane tasks.

1041
00:45:46,234 --> 00:45:52,040
Active seniors, they
are quite happy with

1042
00:45:52,040 --> 00:45:58,010
the fact that people

1043
00:45:58,010 --> 00:46:00,349
can understand what

1044
00:46:00,349 --> 00:46:02,419
they're being compared to.

1045
00:46:02,419 --> 00:46:05,489
They spoke very positive.

1046
00:46:08,800 --> 00:46:11,445
What kind of results
were coming out,

1047
00:46:11,445 --> 00:46:12,390
are coming out and just

1048
00:46:12,390 --> 00:46:13,310
choose county as far as

1049
00:46:13,310 --> 00:46:16,250
the size of partial
productivity

1050
00:46:16,250 --> 00:46:17,960
and so on is it must

1051
00:46:17,960 --> 00:46:19,700
be figures that are
all below what we

1052
00:46:19,700 --> 00:46:21,679
see in black
mascot in probably

1053
00:46:21,679 --> 00:46:23,749
less than that
because there's,

1054
00:46:23,749 --> 00:46:25,799
there's a man who
couldn't hear.

1055
00:46:26,320 --> 00:46:28,910
I have them. I'll just
give the numbers.

1056
00:46:28,910 --> 00:46:29,989
Right. Yeah.

1057
00:46:29,989 --> 00:46:32,315
You heard the sub zones

1058
00:46:32,315 --> 00:46:35,194
before when we went
through our process.

1059
00:46:35,194 --> 00:46:38,419
The 10,000 just moves
are what we drop out.

1060
00:46:38,419 --> 00:46:40,609
The lower threshold up

1061
00:46:40,609 --> 00:46:43,190
that TRB, that subsystem,

1062
00:46:43,190 --> 00:46:44,840
that's all kind
of little pieces

1063
00:46:44,840 --> 00:46:46,310
would go to 36 acres,

1064
00:46:46,310 --> 00:46:49,325
that the dollar test
would be around 129.

1065
00:46:49,325 --> 00:46:50,210
Of course, this varies,

1066
00:46:50,210 --> 00:46:51,230
but this is just taking

1067
00:46:51,230 --> 00:46:52,714
the aggregating the
whole sub zone.

1068
00:46:52,714 --> 00:46:53,269
What do you say?

1069
00:46:53,269 --> 00:46:54,290
36 acres.

1070
00:46:54,290 --> 00:46:55,639
Is that irrigated?

1071
00:46:55,639 --> 00:46:57,265
Irrigated acres, right.

1072
00:46:57,265 --> 00:46:59,524
Could be an
attractive. 400 acres

1073
00:46:59,524 --> 00:47:01,940
will take three were
approved with 23,

1074
00:47:01,940 --> 00:47:03,470
But this would
take 10,000,

1075
00:47:03,470 --> 00:47:03,889
would take it to

1076
00:47:03,889 --> 00:47:07,295
36 irrigated
irrigated acres.

1077
00:47:07,295 --> 00:47:10,309
The alfalfa
subs on was 36.

1078
00:47:10,309 --> 00:47:14,839
It would go to 48
irrigated acres to get up.

1079
00:47:14,839 --> 00:47:18,034
Under this test, $17,280.

1080
00:47:18,034 --> 00:47:19,730
Sisters Coverdell would go

1081
00:47:19,730 --> 00:47:21,545
from 63 irrigated acres to

1082
00:47:21,545 --> 00:47:23,599
102 irrigated acres with

1083
00:47:23,599 --> 00:47:26,840
36,000 plus or
minus dollars.

1084
00:47:26,840 --> 00:47:28,549
Lower bridge would
stay the same.

1085
00:47:28,549 --> 00:47:30,139
It's 130 under

1086
00:47:30,139 --> 00:47:32,270
our present median.
Nothing drops out.

1087
00:47:32,270 --> 00:47:36,304
So I can stay 130
acres with 50 to $100.

1088
00:47:36,304 --> 00:47:38,854
That should give
you an idea.

1089
00:47:38,854 --> 00:47:40,895
Your answer was,

1090
00:47:40,895 --> 00:47:43,445
what's the test tube

1091
00:47:43,445 --> 00:47:45,395
will change and what
you're doing right now.

1092
00:47:45,395 --> 00:47:45,874
Yeah.

1093
00:47:45,874 --> 00:47:46,880
Great question though is

1094
00:47:46,880 --> 00:47:47,805
what's been approved?

1095
00:47:47,805 --> 00:47:48,620
What kinds of things

1096
00:47:48,620 --> 00:47:49,999
have been being approved?

1097
00:47:49,999 --> 00:47:52,549
I'm being approved using

1098
00:47:52,549 --> 00:47:54,619
the smaller numbers
that you talked about.

1099
00:47:54,619 --> 00:47:56,929
Well, we have a
smaller number

1100
00:47:56,929 --> 00:47:58,894
now which is 80 to 80,

1101
00:47:58,894 --> 00:48:00,815
and we don't have

1102
00:48:00,815 --> 00:48:02,179
a minimum lot
size standards,

1103
00:48:02,179 --> 00:48:02,809
so this would add

1104
00:48:02,809 --> 00:48:04,745
a minimum lot
size standard.

1105
00:48:04,745 --> 00:48:06,590
Didn't approve
the new marker

1106
00:48:06,590 --> 00:48:08,720
with smaller lot size?

1107
00:48:08,720 --> 00:48:10,595
I think the question is,

1108
00:48:10,595 --> 00:48:11,870
can you know what

1109
00:48:11,870 --> 00:48:14,014
the experience has been
for farmed dwellings?

1110
00:48:14,014 --> 00:48:16,819
Under your
acknowledged maybe

1111
00:48:16,819 --> 00:48:18,725
I wasn't asked
Georgia question.

1112
00:48:18,725 --> 00:48:20,825
We got record in our
office right now.

1113
00:48:20,825 --> 00:48:22,100
We've been getting
some calls on

1114
00:48:22,100 --> 00:48:23,779
an appeal that was
approved under

1115
00:48:23,779 --> 00:48:24,889
this process that approved

1116
00:48:24,889 --> 00:48:26,690
a three acre
raspberry farm

1117
00:48:26,690 --> 00:48:28,189
and it was denied.
Oh, it's okay.

1118
00:48:28,189 --> 00:48:30,199
But there was an appeal on

1119
00:48:30,199 --> 00:48:32,390
that and maybe that's
a good example.

1120
00:48:32,390 --> 00:48:35,369
It wasn't appeal,
was denied.

1121
00:48:39,190 --> 00:48:41,929
Raspberries or a
high-value crop.

1122
00:48:41,929 --> 00:48:44,209
You have that the
Tableau Ben Redmond zone

1123
00:48:44,209 --> 00:48:47,164
with no minimum lot
size at this point,

1124
00:48:47,164 --> 00:48:49,520
raspberries as
they submitted

1125
00:48:49,520 --> 00:48:51,844
their thing, would
produce $8,200.

1126
00:48:51,844 --> 00:48:53,464
That was denied.
We reviewed it.

1127
00:48:53,464 --> 00:48:57,049
It was denied. The appeal

1128
00:48:57,049 --> 00:48:58,070
was they were appealing

1129
00:48:58,070 --> 00:48:59,210
the decision that
up to the hearings,

1130
00:48:59,210 --> 00:49:01,894
officer, I'm I don t
know about the appeal.

1131
00:49:01,894 --> 00:49:02,539
We add a letter,

1132
00:49:02,539 --> 00:49:04,400
an opposition, but
it was denied.

1133
00:49:04,400 --> 00:49:07,169
It didn't meet
the standards.

1134
00:49:08,260 --> 00:49:09,920
Okay.

1135
00:49:09,920 --> 00:49:11,510
So what the heck

1136
00:49:11,510 --> 00:49:13,685
this question, what's
being approved?

1137
00:49:13,685 --> 00:49:16,789
Well, right now we have

1138
00:49:16,789 --> 00:49:19,129
$1 standard based
upon a medium that

1139
00:49:19,129 --> 00:49:21,800
would change what would
be approved would

1140
00:49:21,800 --> 00:49:24,139
be a different set

1141
00:49:24,139 --> 00:49:26,989
of level of approval
because we're changing,

1142
00:49:26,989 --> 00:49:29,700
we're raising
at about 50%.

1143
00:49:30,340 --> 00:49:32,989
But what has been
approved since

1144
00:49:32,989 --> 00:49:35,660
we've approved under
the old numbers,

1145
00:49:35,660 --> 00:49:37,490
the shoots County is we

1146
00:49:37,490 --> 00:49:38,899
have various sub zones.

1147
00:49:38,899 --> 00:49:40,220
We have a big range.

1148
00:49:40,220 --> 00:49:41,780
We have farmed dwellings

1149
00:49:41,780 --> 00:49:43,969
with 50, 60, $70,000.

1150
00:49:43,969 --> 00:49:45,259
We have farmed
dwellings in

1151
00:49:45,259 --> 00:49:48,859
that one sub zone with
less this would allow

1152
00:49:48,859 --> 00:49:50,959
that to occur in
that areas within

1153
00:49:50,959 --> 00:49:53,120
a mile that have
small parcels

1154
00:49:53,120 --> 00:49:55,949
would probably still
be approved with

1155
00:49:56,350 --> 00:49:58,549
smaller amounts

1156
00:49:58,549 --> 00:50:01,835
of production
capability necessary.

1157
00:50:01,835 --> 00:50:03,289
What this does is adds

1158
00:50:03,289 --> 00:50:05,285
a minimum lot
size to that.

1159
00:50:05,285 --> 00:50:07,100
Georgia think you're
missing the question.

1160
00:50:07,100 --> 00:50:09,125
Let me see if I
understand the question.

1161
00:50:09,125 --> 00:50:11,089
I think you're
missing it entirely.

1162
00:50:11,089 --> 00:50:12,410
I think the question

1163
00:50:12,410 --> 00:50:14,269
is it shoots
County is one of

1164
00:50:14,269 --> 00:50:19,355
two counties that has
this test in place.

1165
00:50:19,355 --> 00:50:23,299
It isn't established
with the same numbers.

1166
00:50:23,299 --> 00:50:25,670
It's established with
numbers that produce

1167
00:50:25,670 --> 00:50:27,950
a slightly lower threshold

1168
00:50:27,950 --> 00:50:29,165
and it shoots County.

1169
00:50:29,165 --> 00:50:31,010
But given the
thresholds that

1170
00:50:31,010 --> 00:50:33,169
this Commission
acknowledged into

1171
00:50:33,169 --> 00:50:36,590
shoots County is
administering what kinds of

1172
00:50:36,590 --> 00:50:40,250
farm parcels are getting
dwelling approvals.

1173
00:50:40,250 --> 00:50:42,035
It was just acreage.

1174
00:50:42,035 --> 00:50:44,104
What's the smallest
you've approved?

1175
00:50:44,104 --> 00:50:47,269
Makers. Don't look at

1176
00:50:47,269 --> 00:50:48,500
what's being proposed and

1177
00:50:48,500 --> 00:50:50,940
look at your experience.

1178
00:50:51,880 --> 00:50:53,449
Is that the one with

1179
00:50:53,449 --> 00:50:54,439
the zero minimum lot size?

1180
00:50:54,439 --> 00:50:54,799
Yeah.

1181
00:50:54,799 --> 00:50:56,510
Well, we have a
minimum lot size,

1182
00:50:56,510 --> 00:50:58,565
but quite frankly,
I don't know.

1183
00:50:58,565 --> 00:51:00,469
I mean, we have
a whole range.

1184
00:51:00,469 --> 00:51:03,199
We've had a couple of
dozen in last year,

1185
00:51:03,199 --> 00:51:04,819
a couple of dozen
dwellings ranging

1186
00:51:04,819 --> 00:51:06,619
in size from a couple of

1187
00:51:06,619 --> 00:51:08,285
hundred acres down to

1188
00:51:08,285 --> 00:51:09,949
maybe something with eight

1189
00:51:09,949 --> 00:51:11,210
or ten irrigated acres

1190
00:51:11,210 --> 00:51:14,239
with I believe we

1191
00:51:14,239 --> 00:51:16,895
had one that was
an emu operation.

1192
00:51:16,895 --> 00:51:18,409
However, they had to

1193
00:51:18,409 --> 00:51:19,550
have it investment
and put in

1194
00:51:19,550 --> 00:51:22,055
an incubator with
$10,000 of cost him,

1195
00:51:22,055 --> 00:51:22,385
you know,

1196
00:51:22,385 --> 00:51:24,455
there's a lot of
investment upfront,

1197
00:51:24,455 --> 00:51:26,660
but there's a big range.

1198
00:51:26,660 --> 00:51:29,344
I can't I can't
pull them out.

1199
00:51:29,344 --> 00:51:31,549
I think the important
thing is this sets

1200
00:51:31,549 --> 00:51:33,110
a minimum lot size
where we don't have

1201
00:51:33,110 --> 00:51:36,545
one today? Ten acres?

1202
00:51:36,545 --> 00:51:37,835
No no.

1203
00:51:37,835 --> 00:51:40,340
36 irrigated acres.

1204
00:51:40,340 --> 00:51:43,610
Okay. One other
thing you drop

1205
00:51:43,610 --> 00:51:44,959
out for that 10,000 is

1206
00:51:44,959 --> 00:51:46,760
everything below 28
irrigated acres.

1207
00:51:46,760 --> 00:51:48,589
You can't even consider
anything that has

1208
00:51:48,589 --> 00:51:49,970
less than 28 irrigated

1209
00:51:49,970 --> 00:51:51,724
acres under this proposal.

1210
00:51:51,724 --> 00:51:54,680
Doesn't it drops
right off.

1211
00:51:54,680 --> 00:51:58,295
You think is
the indicator?

1212
00:51:58,295 --> 00:52:01,130
Yeah. We don't have

1213
00:52:01,130 --> 00:52:03,140
any other indicator
crops really,

1214
00:52:03,140 --> 00:52:05,989
so it's simpler for us.

1215
00:52:05,989 --> 00:52:08,735
How's, how's it working
with the public?

1216
00:52:08,735 --> 00:52:10,969
Is that mind-boggling
for the public?

1217
00:52:10,969 --> 00:52:12,665
Is there some level
of understanding?

1218
00:52:12,665 --> 00:52:14,600
It's extremely simple.

1219
00:52:14,600 --> 00:52:16,430
And that's honest.

1220
00:52:16,430 --> 00:52:17,539
We can do one of

1221
00:52:17,539 --> 00:52:19,830
these things in
a half an hour.

1222
00:52:21,100 --> 00:52:23,539
We have an upfront fee.

1223
00:52:23,539 --> 00:52:24,650
Somebody comes
in and praise

1224
00:52:24,650 --> 00:52:26,629
it pays a fee at $60.

1225
00:52:26,629 --> 00:52:29,580
We run the numbers and
give it back to them.

1226
00:52:30,550 --> 00:52:33,710
Okay. I guess
the thing that

1227
00:52:33,710 --> 00:52:36,080
continues to
bother me on the

1228
00:52:36,080 --> 00:52:38,659
whole on test two is

1229
00:52:38,659 --> 00:52:42,200
the issue of potential
versus actuality.

1230
00:52:42,200 --> 00:52:45,785
I just see too
much potential for

1231
00:52:45,785 --> 00:52:46,999
artful fraud and

1232
00:52:46,999 --> 00:52:50,434
I don't artful
creative stuff.

1233
00:52:50,434 --> 00:52:52,819
When you do with
the potential or

1234
00:52:52,819 --> 00:52:54,469
capability when
data are rather

1235
00:52:54,469 --> 00:52:56,404
than what has
actually happened.

1236
00:52:56,404 --> 00:52:58,939
And I, I think

1237
00:52:58,939 --> 00:53:00,020
the staff maybe do

1238
00:53:00,020 --> 00:53:00,845
the right thing
and saying,

1239
00:53:00,845 --> 00:53:02,210
okay, well, let
the potential ones

1240
00:53:02,210 --> 00:53:04,830
have it but only a
temporary dwelling.

1241
00:53:04,900 --> 00:53:07,565
But I agree with
the counties that

1242
00:53:07,565 --> 00:53:08,089
administering

1243
00:53:08,089 --> 00:53:09,830
a temporary dwelling
thing is a nightmare.

1244
00:53:09,830 --> 00:53:12,140
So that's why I come
to the conclusion of

1245
00:53:12,140 --> 00:53:13,640
just illuminating test 1.2

1246
00:53:13,640 --> 00:53:14,990
and stay with tree.

1247
00:53:14,990 --> 00:53:15,919
Because, you know, it's

1248
00:53:15,919 --> 00:53:16,760
people who really done

1249
00:53:16,760 --> 00:53:19,130
it in that people who are

1250
00:53:19,130 --> 00:53:20,299
imagining they
will do it or

1251
00:53:20,299 --> 00:53:21,814
could do it or
might do it if

1252
00:53:21,814 --> 00:53:25,710
they get around to
it or whatever.

1253
00:53:30,040 --> 00:53:33,469
Mr. Chairman,
you have to go,

1254
00:53:33,469 --> 00:53:38,119
um, I don't I

1255
00:53:38,119 --> 00:53:41,550
gather there's probably
not a possibility.

1256
00:53:41,620 --> 00:53:43,760
I wouldn't gather that.

1257
00:53:43,760 --> 00:53:44,479
I don't know
what the rest of

1258
00:53:44,479 --> 00:53:45,350
the Commission
wants to do,

1259
00:53:45,350 --> 00:53:46,685
but before you leave,

1260
00:53:46,685 --> 00:53:49,159
why don't we at

1261
00:53:49,159 --> 00:53:56,089
least have a motion to
adopt everything else.

1262
00:53:56,089 --> 00:53:57,379
But you can be here to

1263
00:53:57,379 --> 00:53:58,279
have your name on it saves

1264
00:53:58,279 --> 00:54:01,309
your part of the
Mr. Chairman.

1265
00:54:01,309 --> 00:54:03,470
Victim? Yes. There
was one other issue

1266
00:54:03,470 --> 00:54:06,019
that that was the
Jefferson County farmland,

1267
00:54:06,019 --> 00:54:07,309
high-value
farming, and we do

1268
00:54:07,309 --> 00:54:09,184
have data on that now.

1269
00:54:09,184 --> 00:54:11,280
Okay.

1270
00:54:15,140 --> 00:54:20,849
I think we got we go then.

1271
00:54:23,620 --> 00:54:26,990
The question was is that
person who testifies

1272
00:54:26,990 --> 00:54:28,459
land include

1273
00:54:28,459 --> 00:54:30,874
protected under the
high-value definition?

1274
00:54:30,874 --> 00:54:34,759
No. The the soils
that are irrigated,

1275
00:54:34,759 --> 00:54:38,494
their their class 3.4
soils in Cook County,

1276
00:54:38,494 --> 00:54:39,259
there were there were

1277
00:54:39,259 --> 00:54:40,369
actually two of them that

1278
00:54:40,369 --> 00:54:42,500
would be considered prime,

1279
00:54:42,500 --> 00:54:44,719
but the overwhelming
majority

1280
00:54:44,719 --> 00:54:46,084
of them would not.

1281
00:54:46,084 --> 00:54:48,964
And so if you
wanted to include

1282
00:54:48,964 --> 00:54:50,360
that land in

1283
00:54:50,360 --> 00:54:51,890
Jefferson County,
It's irrigated.

1284
00:54:51,890 --> 00:54:53,675
We have the soils

1285
00:54:53,675 --> 00:54:59,059
listed names for
class 3.4 and they

1286
00:54:59,059 --> 00:55:00,439
could be described to be

1287
00:55:00,439 --> 00:55:02,269
those that are North of

1288
00:55:02,269 --> 00:55:05,329
the Crockett river
class to reinforce

1289
00:55:05,329 --> 00:55:08,690
soils irrigated
using our definition

1290
00:55:08,690 --> 00:55:10,519
for those soil types.

1291
00:55:10,519 --> 00:55:12,739
Mr. Chair, this strikes me

1292
00:55:12,739 --> 00:55:15,019
as a relatively
bizarre way to make

1293
00:55:15,019 --> 00:55:17,390
public policy
decisions is based on

1294
00:55:17,390 --> 00:55:18,590
one witness coming in

1295
00:55:18,590 --> 00:55:20,600
and saying on
a phone call,

1296
00:55:20,600 --> 00:55:23,374
yeah, these soils
ought to be part of

1297
00:55:23,374 --> 00:55:27,089
some kind of a decision.

1298
00:59:04,720 --> 00:59:06,949
The reason I raised it

1299
00:59:06,949 --> 00:59:08,180
as I didn't think
it was one witness.

1300
00:59:08,180 --> 00:59:09,620
I thought my
recollection was that

1301
00:59:09,620 --> 00:59:10,639
the three farmers from

1302
00:59:10,639 --> 00:59:12,920
Jefferson County
came and asked her.

1303
00:59:12,920 --> 00:59:14,570
There are it'd
be included.

1304
00:59:14,570 --> 00:59:17,930
And so I it

1305
00:59:17,930 --> 00:59:21,199
seemed seemed a little

1306
00:59:21,199 --> 00:59:22,475
reason not to include it,

1307
00:59:22,475 --> 00:59:25,130
but if it can be

1308
00:59:25,130 --> 00:59:29,735
identified and can
I say something?

1309
00:59:29,735 --> 00:59:31,730
The reason we
were particularly

1310
00:59:31,730 --> 00:59:33,380
interested and the
testimony from

1311
00:59:33,380 --> 00:59:34,939
the folks in Jefferson
County is that

1312
00:59:34,939 --> 00:59:37,115
we have been told
again and again,

1313
00:59:37,115 --> 00:59:39,380
not to worry about the
irrigated lands in

1314
00:59:39,380 --> 00:59:41,269
Eastern Oregon because
the ones that we were

1315
00:59:41,269 --> 00:59:42,949
concerned about
with most probably

1316
00:59:42,949 --> 00:59:46,399
be prime unique class
1.2 when irrigated.

1317
00:59:46,399 --> 00:59:47,869
And the only way

1318
00:59:47,869 --> 00:59:48,859
that we need to
sort of check

1319
00:59:48,859 --> 00:59:49,759
that out is to find

1320
00:59:49,759 --> 00:59:51,139
the farmers that
we're familiar with.

1321
00:59:51,139 --> 00:59:51,529
And we knew

1322
00:59:51,529 --> 00:59:53,395
Leslie Elliott and
Mickey Killingsworth,

1323
00:59:53,395 --> 00:59:54,929
those folks
Jefferson County,

1324
00:59:54,929 --> 00:59:56,400
who were very
reputable, successful

1325
00:59:56,400 --> 00:59:57,869
farmers that we
can rely on.

1326
00:59:57,869 --> 00:59:59,279
So we thought, is that

1327
00:59:59,279 --> 01:00:00,720
true when your situation,

1328
01:00:00,720 --> 01:00:02,415
and it ends up,
it's not true.

1329
01:00:02,415 --> 01:00:04,334
We don't know how much

1330
01:00:04,334 --> 01:00:06,525
other agricultural land
and Eastern Oregon

1331
01:00:06,525 --> 01:00:08,415
that is valuable
crop producing

1332
01:00:08,415 --> 01:00:10,769
that may be threatened
is not protected.

1333
01:00:10,769 --> 01:00:12,404
That's the issue.

1334
01:00:12,404 --> 01:00:14,620
We're very
concerned about it.

1335
01:00:14,620 --> 01:00:16,310
And there's a number

1336
01:00:16,310 --> 01:00:17,449
of different
ways you can go.

1337
01:00:17,449 --> 01:00:19,430
I mean, Commissioner
Macpherson

1338
01:00:19,430 --> 01:00:20,720
talked about maybe
doing the class

1339
01:00:20,720 --> 01:00:22,610
three soils when
irrigated in

1340
01:00:22,610 --> 01:00:23,870
Eastern Oregon that would

1341
01:00:23,870 --> 01:00:25,040
seem to avoid getting it.

1342
01:00:25,040 --> 01:00:26,450
The soils that handily

1343
01:00:26,450 --> 01:00:28,474
thought should
not be protected.

1344
01:00:28,474 --> 01:00:29,435
Rather than saying

1345
01:00:29,435 --> 01:00:31,025
everything in
Eastern Oregon,

1346
01:00:31,025 --> 01:00:32,495
Commissioner make
theorists and I think

1347
01:00:32,495 --> 01:00:33,559
also made a good case for

1348
01:00:33,559 --> 01:00:34,579
why it wouldn't work to

1349
01:00:34,579 --> 01:00:36,020
say all irrigated lands,

1350
01:00:36,020 --> 01:00:37,100
because they're
irrigated lands in

1351
01:00:37,100 --> 01:00:38,869
the valley that should
not be protected.

1352
01:00:38,869 --> 01:00:41,014
But we have a very real
concern about this.

1353
01:00:41,014 --> 01:00:42,709
And as you all know
and have discussed,

1354
01:00:42,709 --> 01:00:43,910
is the irrigated lands in

1355
01:00:43,910 --> 01:00:45,170
Eastern Oregon that are

1356
01:00:45,170 --> 01:00:48,080
producing the
high-value crops.

1357
01:00:48,080 --> 01:00:48,920
Mr.

1358
01:00:48,920 --> 01:00:50,899
Chair, I agree
with the concern,

1359
01:00:50,899 --> 01:00:52,189
and I think
that's probably

1360
01:00:52,189 --> 01:00:56,159
a live issue. If
we look at it.

1361
01:00:56,860 --> 01:01:00,919
An overall geographic
basis as opposed to

1362
01:01:00,919 --> 01:01:05,480
one individual
landowner's tract.

1363
01:01:05,480 --> 01:01:07,520
It strikes me that

1364
01:01:07,520 --> 01:01:09,260
if we're going to do
something like this,

1365
01:01:09,260 --> 01:01:11,389
it's going to take
us a fair amount

1366
01:01:11,389 --> 01:01:13,849
of research into what
the implications are.

1367
01:01:13,849 --> 01:01:15,139
We just can't decide

1368
01:01:15,139 --> 01:01:16,130
today that we're
going to add

1369
01:01:16,130 --> 01:01:19,280
class three and
class four or,

1370
01:01:19,280 --> 01:01:23,164
and, or class
for last-minute.

1371
01:01:23,164 --> 01:01:24,649
Put that in without having

1372
01:01:24,649 --> 01:01:27,560
some idea of what
the impacts are.

1373
01:01:27,560 --> 01:01:30,184
If we're if we're
interested in doing that,

1374
01:01:30,184 --> 01:01:33,469
we possibly ought to
defer decision-making

1375
01:01:33,469 --> 01:01:36,230
or adopt and consider

1376
01:01:36,230 --> 01:01:37,579
this issue and
come back with

1377
01:01:37,579 --> 01:01:39,184
subsequent amendments.

1378
01:01:39,184 --> 01:01:41,629
My comment about
being bizarre was

1379
01:01:41,629 --> 01:01:43,969
focused on one
single parcel as

1380
01:01:43,969 --> 01:01:45,365
opposed to looking at how

1381
01:01:45,365 --> 01:01:46,430
difficult would it be to

1382
01:01:46,430 --> 01:01:49,925
get a sense of the
magnitude of the issue?

1383
01:01:49,925 --> 01:01:52,850
Class III lands keep
producing that level

1384
01:01:52,850 --> 01:01:56,149
of crops these mountains.

1385
01:01:56,149 --> 01:01:58,909
I believe commissioner
Pfeiffer,

1386
01:01:58,909 --> 01:02:01,610
that with discussions
with the SCS,

1387
01:02:01,610 --> 01:02:03,170
we could come back with

1388
01:02:03,170 --> 01:02:05,719
some precise acreage is as

1389
01:02:05,719 --> 01:02:07,339
to what's
irrigated in which

1390
01:02:07,339 --> 01:02:11,374
soil types are
most involved.

1391
01:02:11,374 --> 01:02:14,240
The individuals
involved here

1392
01:02:14,240 --> 01:02:16,130
we're able to call
SES and Portland and

1393
01:02:16,130 --> 01:02:20,915
get confirmation
as to which ones.

1394
01:02:20,915 --> 01:02:22,384
We're valuable.

1395
01:02:22,384 --> 01:02:25,879
And we have on computer
disc and are getting

1396
01:02:25,879 --> 01:02:27,050
some updated data from

1397
01:02:27,050 --> 01:02:28,309
SCS for

1398
01:02:28,309 --> 01:02:30,170
all the known soil
types in the state.

1399
01:02:30,170 --> 01:02:32,539
And we can be able to get

1400
01:02:32,539 --> 01:02:34,339
some solid information.

1401
01:02:34,339 --> 01:02:35,659
And there's
really, there's

1402
01:02:35,659 --> 01:02:36,740
really two issues here.

1403
01:02:36,740 --> 01:02:39,350
It's not just class
three soils that are

1404
01:02:39,350 --> 01:02:42,110
irrigated as we as

1405
01:02:42,110 --> 01:02:43,460
staff did and its
recommendation,

1406
01:02:43,460 --> 01:02:44,990
we were looking at
areas that have

1407
01:02:44,990 --> 01:02:47,180
existing high-value
crops that

1408
01:02:47,180 --> 01:02:48,499
are under some
growth pressure.

1409
01:02:48,499 --> 01:02:50,239
And from what I hear,

1410
01:02:50,239 --> 01:02:51,350
Jefferson County
and starting

1411
01:02:51,350 --> 01:02:52,429
to be undergrowth
pressure,

1412
01:02:52,429 --> 01:02:54,049
it's the next bedroom

1413
01:02:54,049 --> 01:02:55,745
community to
Central Oregon.

1414
01:02:55,745 --> 01:02:57,650
That last component
that I was

1415
01:02:57,650 --> 01:02:59,765
hoping would be more
difficult for first.

1416
01:02:59,765 --> 01:03:01,820
First is an
inventory exercise.

1417
01:03:01,820 --> 01:03:04,189
That last one is
the high-value

1418
01:03:04,189 --> 01:03:05,329
yet that's a positive,

1419
01:03:05,329 --> 01:03:06,409
but the high-value crops,

1420
01:03:06,409 --> 01:03:08,150
there's no doubt
in my mind that

1421
01:03:08,150 --> 01:03:08,390
there are

1422
01:03:08,390 --> 01:03:10,100
high-value crops in
Jefferson County.

1423
01:03:10,100 --> 01:03:12,424
When you look at
garlic seed that's

1424
01:03:12,424 --> 01:03:15,334
capable of producing
$4,000 per acre.

1425
01:03:15,334 --> 01:03:17,270
When you're
looking at some of

1426
01:03:17,270 --> 01:03:18,590
the Mint crops and some of

1427
01:03:18,590 --> 01:03:19,970
the other seed crops
that are there.

1428
01:03:19,970 --> 01:03:21,169
There's no doubt
in my mind

1429
01:03:21,169 --> 01:03:22,939
they're high-value crops.

1430
01:03:22,939 --> 01:03:25,370
Can you find when
inventory all

1431
01:03:25,370 --> 01:03:28,834
those those side of
Jefferson County, e.g.

1432
01:03:28,834 --> 01:03:31,729
well, just in my knowledge
of Eastern Oregon,

1433
01:03:31,729 --> 01:03:33,019
you're not talking,
you're not.

1434
01:03:33,019 --> 01:03:35,210
As far as these
outside of perennials,

1435
01:03:35,210 --> 01:03:35,960
there really aren't that

1436
01:03:35,960 --> 01:03:37,775
many areas, trays
your belly.

1437
01:03:37,775 --> 01:03:40,684
Maybe Klamath County
with the potatoes,

1438
01:03:40,684 --> 01:03:42,980
Central Oregon, some
of these areas and

1439
01:03:42,980 --> 01:03:44,660
maybe something up around
Milton free water,

1440
01:03:44,660 --> 01:03:48,080
but you can get the
every county has

1441
01:03:48,080 --> 01:03:49,700
these commodity
data sheets

1442
01:03:49,700 --> 01:03:51,979
that Dr. P's was
referring to,

1443
01:03:51,979 --> 01:03:54,229
and they will give
very precise acreage

1444
01:03:54,229 --> 01:03:56,854
is reported for what's
been harvested,

1445
01:03:56,854 --> 01:03:58,130
what the value
of production

1446
01:03:58,130 --> 01:04:00,364
is so that data
can be gathered.

1447
01:04:00,364 --> 01:04:02,810
It sounds like what
we're saying here is

1448
01:04:02,810 --> 01:04:04,849
maybe asking
staff to look at

1449
01:04:04,849 --> 01:04:06,200
this and bring it back as

1450
01:04:06,200 --> 01:04:08,929
a potential amendment will

1451
01:04:08,929 --> 01:04:10,820
make to these and
a future meeting.

1452
01:04:10,820 --> 01:04:12,229
If you want to reconsider

1453
01:04:12,229 --> 01:04:15,530
this class II class
for in Eastern Oregon,

1454
01:04:15,530 --> 01:04:20,240
be added as high-value.
My understanding.

1455
01:04:20,240 --> 01:04:22,429
This, we can wipe
everything else up

1456
01:04:22,429 --> 01:04:24,529
and come back to this
without jeopardizing.

1457
01:04:24,529 --> 01:04:28,189
Okay. Okay. Okay.

1458
01:04:28,189 --> 01:04:29,555
Tell me tell me again,

1459
01:04:29,555 --> 01:04:34,380
why wasn't that
area SCS prime,

1460
01:04:34,450 --> 01:04:38,060
the soils become crime

1461
01:04:38,060 --> 01:04:39,380
because of the inherent

1462
01:04:39,380 --> 01:04:41,090
characteristics
and some soils

1463
01:04:41,090 --> 01:04:43,880
will move in their
classification to

1464
01:04:43,880 --> 01:04:47,075
your prime rating based
on irrigation water.

1465
01:04:47,075 --> 01:04:48,140
There are others that get

1466
01:04:48,140 --> 01:04:49,879
irrigated and maybe
very good soils.

1467
01:04:49,879 --> 01:04:51,980
But for one reason
or another,

1468
01:04:51,980 --> 01:04:53,539
in my guests in
Eastern Oregon,

1469
01:04:53,539 --> 01:04:54,725
it may be climatic,

1470
01:04:54,725 --> 01:04:57,589
will not move to

1471
01:04:57,589 --> 01:04:59,059
the Prime category is

1472
01:04:59,059 --> 01:05:00,755
the prime category
is based,

1473
01:05:00,755 --> 01:05:02,690
it's a national standard

1474
01:05:02,690 --> 01:05:05,450
for quality and
growing seasons.

1475
01:05:05,450 --> 01:05:06,529
I suspect it's
got something

1476
01:05:06,529 --> 01:05:07,640
to do with growing season.

1477
01:05:07,640 --> 01:05:08,809
That's why the
harbor bench

1478
01:05:08,809 --> 01:05:12,469
soils don't
make the prime.

1479
01:05:12,469 --> 01:05:13,970
They have all the
characteristics,

1480
01:05:13,970 --> 01:05:15,049
but there's a climatic

1481
01:05:15,049 --> 01:05:16,279
problem there that limits

1482
01:05:16,279 --> 01:05:17,945
the growing season in

1483
01:05:17,945 --> 01:05:19,219
the coastal influence and

1484
01:05:19,219 --> 01:05:21,125
so they don't
quite get there.

1485
01:05:21,125 --> 01:05:22,400
I guess what I don't I

1486
01:05:22,400 --> 01:05:23,719
guess what's confusing me

1487
01:05:23,719 --> 01:05:25,249
and maybe I can
sit down with

1488
01:05:25,249 --> 01:05:27,305
you at some point
and look at this.

1489
01:05:27,305 --> 01:05:30,829
That's Class II soils
that isn't prime.

1490
01:05:30,829 --> 01:05:33,500
2 mi away in a different
county you have

1491
01:05:33,500 --> 01:05:36,575
class 45.6 soils
that are prime.

1492
01:05:36,575 --> 01:05:39,770
And I don't understand.
It would be okay.

1493
01:05:39,770 --> 01:05:41,450
Well, understand. We
can we can talk to

1494
01:05:41,450 --> 01:05:44,015
SES and try and get
that clarified.

1495
01:05:44,015 --> 01:05:45,229
Let's hold on.

1496
01:05:45,229 --> 01:05:47,180
So you understand
the direction

1497
01:05:47,180 --> 01:05:48,829
is that we'd like
to see whether

1498
01:05:48,829 --> 01:05:50,300
that high-value out
to be expanded in

1499
01:05:50,300 --> 01:05:51,499
Eastern Oregon to include

1500
01:05:51,499 --> 01:05:53,270
some of these other soils.

1501
01:05:53,270 --> 01:05:54,875
Okay.

1502
01:05:54,875 --> 01:05:56,660
Now, can we have

1503
01:05:56,660 --> 01:05:59,490
John's still
here hanging on.

1504
01:05:59,920 --> 01:06:03,110
Lasers aren't
until seven or 730

1505
01:06:03,110 --> 01:06:09,379
or 30. Beside point.

1506
01:06:09,379 --> 01:06:13,310
I'm going to
lose their job.

1507
01:06:13,310 --> 01:06:15,090
Philadelphia.

1508
01:06:15,940 --> 01:06:17,869
Would somebody
like to make

1509
01:06:17,869 --> 01:06:19,789
a motion to adopt?

1510
01:06:19,789 --> 01:06:25,159
Is there a way to term
this motion properly?

1511
01:06:25,159 --> 01:06:26,930
No. Graph.

1512
01:06:26,930 --> 01:06:28,760
I suppose it wasn't
over b would be

1513
01:06:28,760 --> 01:06:31,325
the February 17th draft

1514
01:06:31,325 --> 01:06:35,330
of both documents with

1515
01:06:35,330 --> 01:06:38,989
amendments as amended
as symmetric as they're

1516
01:06:38,989 --> 01:06:39,980
just two documents were

1517
01:06:39,980 --> 01:06:41,284
talking about or is it

1518
01:06:41,284 --> 01:06:42,814
include the goals to

1519
01:06:42,814 --> 01:06:44,584
do we have to adopt those?

1520
01:06:44,584 --> 01:06:46,295
33.

1521
01:06:46,295 --> 01:06:54,740
We've proved February

1522
01:06:54,740 --> 01:06:58,475
7th graphs

1523
01:06:58,475 --> 01:07:00,920
for agricultural land.

1524
01:07:00,920 --> 01:07:04,400
Worst land was subject

1525
01:07:04,400 --> 01:07:09,394
to reserving the
issue of definitions,

1526
01:07:09,394 --> 01:07:11,720
criteria, and
we're leaving

1527
01:07:11,720 --> 01:07:13,339
open for future amendment.

1528
01:07:13,339 --> 01:07:18,359
This issue of the lamb
reviewed Holy Land,

1529
01:07:18,359 --> 01:07:20,240
been discussing
in Eastern Oregon

1530
01:07:20,240 --> 01:07:21,980
has included

1531
01:07:21,980 --> 01:07:24,379
all the amendments we've
made today, right?

1532
01:07:24,379 --> 01:07:28,099
Okay. Is there a second
Second Discussion?

1533
01:07:28,099 --> 01:07:31,594
Wasn't a favor. I know.

1534
01:07:31,594 --> 01:07:33,170
Carries unanimously.

1535
01:07:33,170 --> 01:07:34,549
Now, do we need to
adopt the drought

1536
01:07:34,549 --> 01:07:36,709
January 4 draft
of the goals?

1537
01:07:36,709 --> 01:07:39,049
You need to adopt
the goal amendments.

1538
01:07:39,049 --> 01:07:41,779
Okay. So I need a motion
on the January 4.

1539
01:07:41,779 --> 01:07:43,774
We don't have a
February 17th draft.

1540
01:07:43,774 --> 01:07:44,240
All right.

1541
01:07:44,240 --> 01:07:46,979
That wasn't no no
fiddling with them.

1542
01:07:47,470 --> 01:07:50,509
You have a chain. Don't
start. No, no change.

1543
01:07:50,509 --> 01:07:51,859
We were just discussing
what are the goals

1544
01:07:51,859 --> 01:07:53,940
should be adopted first?

1545
01:07:53,950 --> 01:07:56,250
Adopt.

1546
01:07:56,680 --> 01:07:59,329
Either interpret
what you haven't

1547
01:07:59,329 --> 01:08:01,370
pointed clarification.

1548
01:08:01,370 --> 01:08:03,200
What did we adopt with

1549
01:08:03,200 --> 01:08:05,000
regard to the farm
drilling standards?

1550
01:08:05,000 --> 01:08:06,799
We haven't we didn't,
so we carved out,

1551
01:08:06,799 --> 01:08:07,489
we adopted everything

1552
01:08:07,489 --> 01:08:09,649
but the fundamental issue

1553
01:08:09,649 --> 01:08:11,045
that class three sweat.

1554
01:08:11,045 --> 01:08:12,290
But particularly
the answer

1555
01:08:12,290 --> 01:08:14,900
we should adopt the goals,

1556
01:08:14,900 --> 01:08:19,250
which is the
January 4 draft

1557
01:08:19,250 --> 01:08:23,120
motion will also move.

1558
01:08:23,120 --> 01:08:25,864
Second Discussion.

1559
01:08:25,864 --> 01:08:28,895
I was very Rye
I suppose no.

1560
01:08:28,895 --> 01:08:30,710
Carries unanimously.

1561
01:08:30,710 --> 01:08:31,535
Okay.

1562
01:08:31,535 --> 01:08:33,620
So the only issue left

1563
01:08:33,620 --> 01:08:34,639
on the table right now is

1564
01:08:34,639 --> 01:08:36,290
still a farm dwelling.

1565
01:08:36,290 --> 01:08:42,090
Then this eastern
Oregon soils issue.

1566
01:08:42,490 --> 01:08:44,659
Mr. Chairman? Yes.

1567
01:08:44,659 --> 01:08:46,220
I think it was an
admirable goal

1568
01:08:46,220 --> 01:08:48,049
to try to resolve

1569
01:08:48,049 --> 01:08:50,599
the farm dwelling
criteria concurrent with

1570
01:08:50,599 --> 01:08:53,510
the rest of these
administrative rules.

1571
01:08:53,510 --> 01:08:54,860
But I think it
becomes obvious

1572
01:08:54,860 --> 01:08:57,290
that It's not practical

1573
01:08:57,290 --> 01:08:58,925
and we've got to
carry that over.

1574
01:08:58,925 --> 01:09:01,684
And I guess I have some
question for staff.

1575
01:09:01,684 --> 01:09:03,290
I'm sure you are
anticipating

1576
01:09:03,290 --> 01:09:05,300
that that was
a possibility.

1577
01:09:05,300 --> 01:09:06,949
Given that, what do you

1578
01:09:06,949 --> 01:09:08,269
suggest to us in terms

1579
01:09:08,269 --> 01:09:10,609
of process and timelines

1580
01:09:10,609 --> 01:09:13,294
for resolving
that component?

1581
01:09:13,294 --> 01:09:17,300
Well, no, we weren't
anticipating that.

1582
01:09:17,300 --> 01:09:19,520
We took you at your urging

1583
01:09:19,520 --> 01:09:21,815
from several
meetings ago that

1584
01:09:21,815 --> 01:09:23,810
the farmed willing
test ought to

1585
01:09:23,810 --> 01:09:26,929
be the criteria ought

1586
01:09:26,929 --> 01:09:28,865
to be incorporated
and these rules.

1587
01:09:28,865 --> 01:09:30,800
So we really haven't given

1588
01:09:30,800 --> 01:09:33,244
thought to what to
do at this point.

1589
01:09:33,244 --> 01:09:34,609
If you decide
you don't want

1590
01:09:34,609 --> 01:09:38,104
to deal with the PharmD
willing criteria.

1591
01:09:38,104 --> 01:09:41,075
Simply direct, it's
what you want us to do.

1592
01:09:41,075 --> 01:09:42,109
You want us to go back to

1593
01:09:42,109 --> 01:09:43,369
a technical
resource committee?

1594
01:09:43,369 --> 01:09:46,260
Do you want us to follow
some other process?

1595
01:09:47,020 --> 01:09:49,460
I guess my sense is

1596
01:09:49,460 --> 01:09:51,890
that you're probably
not going to

1597
01:09:51,890 --> 01:09:54,380
get much that's
new or different

1598
01:09:54,380 --> 01:09:55,610
from another shot with

1599
01:09:55,610 --> 01:09:57,500
the technical
resource committee.

1600
01:09:57,500 --> 01:09:59,419
Over the years, you've had

1601
01:09:59,419 --> 01:10:03,275
so many different
formulations of the test.

1602
01:10:03,275 --> 01:10:05,644
What you're likely
to get back from us.

1603
01:10:05,644 --> 01:10:07,235
It's just another
laundry list

1604
01:10:07,235 --> 01:10:10,320
of possible tests.

1605
01:10:10,600 --> 01:10:13,505
I really widths and

1606
01:10:13,505 --> 01:10:16,430
what else to suggest
for you because

1607
01:10:16,430 --> 01:10:19,220
the hearings process
really has not

1608
01:10:19,220 --> 01:10:20,869
generated something

1609
01:10:20,869 --> 01:10:23,329
that is new and different.

1610
01:10:23,329 --> 01:10:25,310
So you may simply

1611
01:10:25,310 --> 01:10:28,279
want want to postpone

1612
01:10:28,279 --> 01:10:30,230
it and take it up at
the March meeting.

1613
01:10:30,230 --> 01:10:32,630
I'm prepared to go forward

1614
01:10:32,630 --> 01:10:35,405
with test three alone.

1615
01:10:35,405 --> 01:10:37,340
Like to make move
that afternoon.

1616
01:10:37,340 --> 01:10:38,870
I would move that we adopt

1617
01:10:38,870 --> 01:10:47,119
the Test3 as the
interior points.

1618
01:10:47,119 --> 01:10:49,624
Now, you're
nodding, including

1619
01:10:49,624 --> 01:10:51,409
temporary dwellings in
that you're testing

1620
01:10:51,409 --> 01:10:55,009
that S3 as suggested
by the suggested

1621
01:10:55,009 --> 01:10:58,099
by technical is test

1622
01:10:58,099 --> 01:10:59,644
three that
you're proposing

1623
01:10:59,644 --> 01:11:01,865
in the motion AT 40.

1624
01:11:01,865 --> 01:11:03,559
That's the way it came out

1625
01:11:03,559 --> 01:11:05,939
and people resources
committed.

1626
01:11:07,390 --> 01:11:10,640
Commissioners, we would
encourage you to look

1627
01:11:10,640 --> 01:11:13,550
at the test three as put

1628
01:11:13,550 --> 01:11:14,510
forward by the staff

1629
01:11:14,510 --> 01:11:15,499
because we have addressed

1630
01:11:15,499 --> 01:11:17,719
the marginal lands
issue in that now we're

1631
01:11:17,719 --> 01:11:20,165
gonna get into a whole
Pandora's box here.

1632
01:11:20,165 --> 01:11:22,309
Well, not just test3,

1633
01:11:22,309 --> 01:11:23,750
not not the
temporary dwellings,

1634
01:11:23,750 --> 01:11:25,820
but we have put into that

1635
01:11:25,820 --> 01:11:28,129
the marginal lands
provisions on

1636
01:11:28,129 --> 01:11:30,320
the 9th, non-harm
high-value land.

1637
01:11:30,320 --> 01:11:32,209
You're talking about
attachment one?

1638
01:11:32,209 --> 01:11:34,100
Yes. May I understand that

1639
01:11:34,100 --> 01:11:37,655
in our notebook here,

1640
01:11:37,655 --> 01:11:40,610
the attachment
departmental criteria

1641
01:11:40,610 --> 01:11:44,510
where three tests 12.3.

1642
01:11:44,510 --> 01:11:49,055
The third one States is

1643
01:11:49,055 --> 01:11:52,594
$40,000 or gross
annual income

1644
01:11:52,594 --> 01:11:53,449
of a lease or you're

1645
01:11:53,449 --> 01:11:54,560
looking in the
same document.

1646
01:11:54,560 --> 01:11:56,405
I'm looking at the revised

1647
01:11:56,405 --> 01:11:57,650
upon talking to legal

1648
01:11:57,650 --> 01:11:58,880
counsel and the
marginal lands is

1649
01:11:58,880 --> 01:12:00,769
should we have a
revised recommendation

1650
01:12:00,769 --> 01:12:03,140
attached to the February
draft of the rules?

1651
01:12:03,140 --> 01:12:04,250
And if you look
on the back, the

1652
01:12:04,250 --> 01:12:06,005
very back page of that,

1653
01:12:06,005 --> 01:12:09,179
you'll see sub v,

1654
01:12:09,220 --> 01:12:11,705
at least the mid
point of the median.

1655
01:12:11,705 --> 01:12:13,910
What sub-pieces on
a lot or parcel

1656
01:12:13,910 --> 01:12:16,429
not identified as
high-value farmlands in

1657
01:12:16,429 --> 01:12:17,029
counties that have

1658
01:12:17,029 --> 01:12:18,439
adopted marginal
lands under

1659
01:12:18,439 --> 01:12:22,009
ORS 1 972-471-9901
addition

1660
01:12:22,009 --> 01:12:23,870
before January when 1983,

1661
01:12:23,870 --> 01:12:24,770
if it meets the standards

1662
01:12:24,770 --> 01:12:25,909
or requirements of RS

1663
01:12:25,909 --> 01:12:28,460
to 15 to 13 to a or B.

1664
01:12:28,460 --> 01:12:30,289
That's the marginal
lands test.

1665
01:12:30,289 --> 01:12:32,494
I looked at the wrong nine

1666
01:12:32,494 --> 01:12:36,260
to 18 94 attachment one.

1667
01:12:36,260 --> 01:12:37,739
Yeah, it's not that one.

1668
01:12:37,739 --> 01:12:38,899
No. You're looking
at something that

1669
01:12:38,899 --> 01:12:40,100
wasn't attached
to the back of

1670
01:12:40,100 --> 01:12:41,569
the February to be

1671
01:12:41,569 --> 01:12:44,074
helped if you act
on the test first

1672
01:12:44,074 --> 01:12:46,250
and then consider the

1673
01:12:46,250 --> 01:12:49,114
marginal am
going to share.

1674
01:12:49,114 --> 01:12:49,789
Was there a second?

1675
01:12:49,789 --> 01:12:51,619
I know we were

1676
01:12:51,619 --> 01:12:52,955
trying to make sure
what the motion was.

1677
01:12:52,955 --> 01:12:54,829
Yeah. So you're referring

1678
01:12:54,829 --> 01:12:58,400
to are you referring

1679
01:12:58,400 --> 01:13:00,334
to the test three
on the bottom,

1680
01:13:00,334 --> 01:13:01,580
on the last page,

1681
01:13:01,580 --> 01:13:04,970
page attachment
one page 55.6.

1682
01:13:04,970 --> 01:13:08,735
Yes. Seven second
one day to 21694.

1683
01:13:08,735 --> 01:13:14,150
Yes. Yes. Not the one

1684
01:13:14,150 --> 01:13:16,429
they had to 11
where we got

1685
01:13:16,429 --> 01:13:19,740
the memo we're referring
to in the middle.

1686
01:13:19,900 --> 01:13:26,299
We have got to find
February 17 drive off to

1687
01:13:26,299 --> 01:13:29,540
the last page is last

1688
01:13:29,540 --> 01:13:33,259
sheet is page 5.6
of attachment one.

1689
01:13:33,259 --> 01:13:35,070
If you turn to page six,

1690
01:13:35,070 --> 01:13:36,739
attachment way
at the bottom

1691
01:13:36,739 --> 01:13:39,049
left corner,
There's 21694.

1692
01:13:39,049 --> 01:13:42,425
That's the right one.
Right? That's correct.

1693
01:13:42,425 --> 01:13:44,734
So what are we
referring to?

1694
01:13:44,734 --> 01:13:47,239
Well, what what I
was referring to as

1695
01:13:47,239 --> 01:13:49,520
you've looked
at sub B there,

1696
01:13:49,520 --> 01:13:50,915
that is a that is

1697
01:13:50,915 --> 01:13:54,275
a criterion that
legal counsel and I

1698
01:13:54,275 --> 01:13:56,254
drafted to address

1699
01:13:56,254 --> 01:13:59,134
the non high-value
farmlands

1700
01:13:59,134 --> 01:14:00,559
in a marginal land County,

1701
01:14:00,559 --> 01:14:02,120
not the high-value
farmlands,

1702
01:14:02,120 --> 01:14:03,875
the non high-value
farmlands.

1703
01:14:03,875 --> 01:14:04,429
And if it was,

1704
01:14:04,429 --> 01:14:06,410
if it was a non
high-value track,

1705
01:14:06,410 --> 01:14:07,160
then you would apply

1706
01:14:07,160 --> 01:14:08,390
the farm growing standards

1707
01:14:08,390 --> 01:14:09,950
in the marginal
land statutes.

1708
01:14:09,950 --> 01:14:11,795
So they would not
have the 40 80,

1709
01:14:11,795 --> 01:14:13,654
they would not have
the 40 80 they leave.

1710
01:14:13,654 --> 01:14:15,950
They had 80,000
on high-value

1711
01:14:15,950 --> 01:14:18,244
and the marginal lands
test on all others.

1712
01:14:18,244 --> 01:14:21,480
20,000, basically,
the whole test.

1713
01:14:23,470 --> 01:14:26,450
Okay. So your motion

1714
01:14:26,450 --> 01:14:27,770
that is to a
top test three

1715
01:14:27,770 --> 01:14:32,180
as in attachment
one, page 5.6.

1716
01:14:32,180 --> 01:14:34,830
Okay. Is there a
second to that motion?

1717
01:14:36,190 --> 01:14:38,839
I'll second it I

1718
01:14:38,839 --> 01:14:40,250
think I can legally
do that just to

1719
01:14:40,250 --> 01:14:44,059
kind of discuss
under discussion,

1720
01:14:44,059 --> 01:14:45,784
I'd like to discuss
that a little bit.

1721
01:14:45,784 --> 01:14:47,900
I I'm entirely in

1722
01:14:47,900 --> 01:14:49,789
favor with that for
high-value farmland,

1723
01:14:49,789 --> 01:14:51,604
but I think we've got
to take another look at

1724
01:14:51,604 --> 01:14:54,890
what we might want to
do on the E a few land.

1725
01:14:54,890 --> 01:14:56,329
Now, if I if I

1726
01:14:56,329 --> 01:14:59,089
proposed modification
to the Doesn't

1727
01:14:59,089 --> 01:15:01,280
this cover that this

1728
01:15:01,280 --> 01:15:04,050
has 40,000 on you.
You have few land.

1729
01:15:05,620 --> 01:15:09,425
Yes, that's right. There
would be an $80,000.

1730
01:15:09,425 --> 01:15:09,934
Yeah.

1731
01:15:09,934 --> 01:15:11,240
But I'm wondering about

1732
01:15:11,240 --> 01:15:14,149
Test2 for places
like diffuse County.

1733
01:15:14,149 --> 01:15:16,174
I'd like to have a
chance to look at that.

1734
01:15:16,174 --> 01:15:17,524
Maybe we can't look at it.

1735
01:15:17,524 --> 01:15:19,115
If we have, if
we adopt this,

1736
01:15:19,115 --> 01:15:20,585
this is it, right?

1737
01:15:20,585 --> 01:15:23,105
We're not going to
come back again

1738
01:15:23,105 --> 01:15:24,890
and examine that part

1739
01:15:24,890 --> 01:15:25,955
of the issue any further.

1740
01:15:25,955 --> 01:15:28,309
We could we could

1741
01:15:28,309 --> 01:15:30,289
we could adopt this
today and say the March,

1742
01:15:30,289 --> 01:15:31,865
we're going to
consider test 2.3.

1743
01:15:31,865 --> 01:15:32,975
Well, that I wanted to

1744
01:15:32,975 --> 01:15:34,100
that would be
my preference,

1745
01:15:34,100 --> 01:15:37,295
but maybe I wouldn't I
wouldn't prefer that.

1746
01:15:37,295 --> 01:15:38,914
I don't want to
get it done now.

1747
01:15:38,914 --> 01:15:41,000
And if we're going to
put the entire thing to

1748
01:15:41,000 --> 01:15:42,140
address the
concerns that I

1749
01:15:42,140 --> 01:15:43,999
think Thomas
reason and others.

1750
01:15:43,999 --> 01:15:45,530
My own mind, I
haven't done

1751
01:15:45,530 --> 01:15:46,580
the compelling reason to

1752
01:15:46,580 --> 01:15:48,605
Y2 shouldn't be added
back to the menu.

1753
01:15:48,605 --> 01:15:50,255
What about one?

1754
01:15:50,255 --> 01:15:52,700
There hasn't been a lot
of discussion on one,

1755
01:15:52,700 --> 01:15:54,125
I guess I would
start with two,

1756
01:15:54,125 --> 01:15:55,520
seems to be on the menu

1757
01:15:55,520 --> 01:15:57,694
and weird decimal
anything?

1758
01:15:57,694 --> 01:15:59,269
Well, handily again
was the last one

1759
01:15:59,269 --> 01:16:00,560
to speak again to

1760
01:16:00,560 --> 01:16:02,044
the reasons for
the full menu.

1761
01:16:02,044 --> 01:16:03,259
But I guess my only point

1762
01:16:03,259 --> 01:16:04,580
Hector, is if we're
going to do it,

1763
01:16:04,580 --> 01:16:08,315
I would do it now or
or not do anything.

1764
01:16:08,315 --> 01:16:09,829
I wouldn't do
anything with

1765
01:16:09,829 --> 01:16:10,669
the expectation
we're going

1766
01:16:10,669 --> 01:16:11,659
to come back later.

1767
01:16:11,659 --> 01:16:13,099
Meaning, put it.

1768
01:16:13,099 --> 01:16:14,840
Well, my, my problem is

1769
01:16:14,840 --> 01:16:18,410
that I'm sympathetic to

1770
01:16:18,410 --> 01:16:19,609
the concerns raised by

1771
01:16:19,609 --> 01:16:21,440
counting like to
shoots County,

1772
01:16:21,440 --> 01:16:23,479
but I'm not sure that

1773
01:16:23,479 --> 01:16:26,989
the two tests doesn't
do what Bill is

1774
01:16:26,989 --> 01:16:28,040
concerned about in terms

1775
01:16:28,040 --> 01:16:29,509
of having the effect over

1776
01:16:29,509 --> 01:16:32,449
time of lowering
the parcel size.

1777
01:16:32,449 --> 01:16:33,769
And in fact, I
thought that

1778
01:16:33,769 --> 01:16:36,769
the solution proposed by

1779
01:16:36,769 --> 01:16:39,350
thousand Friends was
a step toward that,

1780
01:16:39,350 --> 01:16:43,125
although admittedly,
very hard to explain.

1781
01:16:43,125 --> 01:16:44,180
So maybe we have
to throw it

1782
01:16:44,180 --> 01:16:45,860
out because of
that on its face.

1783
01:16:45,860 --> 01:16:47,555
I don't know, but
it seems like

1784
01:16:47,555 --> 01:16:48,589
there's room for

1785
01:16:48,589 --> 01:16:49,910
something to
happen with too,

1786
01:16:49,910 --> 01:16:52,159
that might be a
middle ground,

1787
01:16:52,159 --> 01:16:53,555
but we don't know what
that is right now.

1788
01:16:53,555 --> 01:16:54,590
I'm not sure we
can work it out

1789
01:16:54,590 --> 01:16:58,490
and we didn't give Jim PZ

1790
01:16:58,490 --> 01:17:01,040
opportunity to respond
to that ratcheting

1791
01:17:01,040 --> 01:17:04,430
down issue and
effect question.

1792
01:17:04,430 --> 01:17:07,160
I wonder if it might
not be appropriate to

1793
01:17:07,160 --> 01:17:11,430
see his responses to
that at some point.

1794
01:17:11,760 --> 01:17:14,380
Using a measuring

1795
01:17:14,380 --> 01:17:15,639
the meeting in a
different way,

1796
01:17:15,639 --> 01:17:20,949
know whether whether
tests to results and

1797
01:17:20,949 --> 01:17:23,589
ratcheting down the parcel

1798
01:17:23,589 --> 01:17:27,140
sizes in an area where
that test is applied.

1799
01:17:33,420 --> 01:17:36,399
Well, I can see
another 2 h

1800
01:17:36,399 --> 01:17:38,919
who discussion,
That's my problem.

1801
01:17:38,919 --> 01:17:41,215
I had no problem
with that.

1802
01:17:41,215 --> 01:17:42,549
I'd like to find
out where the rest

1803
01:17:42,549 --> 01:17:43,960
of the commission
is on this thing.

1804
01:17:43,960 --> 01:17:45,519
Well, other people see,

1805
01:17:45,519 --> 01:17:48,700
I think I heard
from Pfeiffer

1806
01:17:48,700 --> 01:17:50,920
that he wanted to test

1807
01:17:50,920 --> 01:17:53,415
1.2 to apply everywhere.

1808
01:17:53,415 --> 01:17:56,179
Actually, my
immediate thinking

1809
01:17:56,179 --> 01:17:57,785
is 2.3 everywhere.

1810
01:17:57,785 --> 01:18:00,329
One is more troubling.

1811
01:18:00,329 --> 01:18:01,250
My first company.

1812
01:18:01,250 --> 01:18:03,305
It was more of a
procedural one.

1813
01:18:03,305 --> 01:18:05,779
I'm concerned that if
we come back and look

1814
01:18:05,779 --> 01:18:06,679
for a solution to

1815
01:18:06,679 --> 01:18:08,765
this remaining
problem area,

1816
01:18:08,765 --> 01:18:10,670
having adopted three, yes,

1817
01:18:10,670 --> 01:18:13,190
it's true we could go
back and modify three,

1818
01:18:13,190 --> 01:18:15,634
but I think we ought
to do it in one swoop,

1819
01:18:15,634 --> 01:18:17,149
fell swoop as a
comprehensive.

1820
01:18:17,149 --> 01:18:19,010
Yeah, I wouldn't support

1821
01:18:19,010 --> 01:18:20,809
doing three now and
something else later.

1822
01:18:20,809 --> 01:18:22,400
We should do it.
Either not do it

1823
01:18:22,400 --> 01:18:24,689
now or do it now, or
do the whole menu.

1824
01:18:24,689 --> 01:18:27,469
I would be in favor
of the whole menu.

1825
01:18:27,469 --> 01:18:31,865
I simply can't
support number two on

1826
01:18:31,865 --> 01:18:37,669
high-value when the
volley well, in 1.3.

1827
01:18:37,669 --> 01:18:39,154
No.

1828
01:18:39,154 --> 01:18:41,389
I I can I can support

1829
01:18:41,389 --> 01:18:43,970
three every high-value
everywhere.

1830
01:18:43,970 --> 01:18:48,049
And I would support
1.2 are or two or four

1831
01:18:48,049 --> 01:18:50,059
in the EFC without

1832
01:18:50,059 --> 01:18:52,670
including the
high-value when Mr. Mr.

1833
01:18:52,670 --> 01:18:54,619
Chair, I'd I'd like to
get a sense of are we

1834
01:18:54,619 --> 01:18:56,944
going to seriously
consider this motion?

1835
01:18:56,944 --> 01:18:58,099
And it's I mean, do we

1836
01:18:58,099 --> 01:18:59,119
really want to debate it

1837
01:18:59,119 --> 01:19:01,910
out or do we want to
decide fundamentally,

1838
01:19:01,910 --> 01:19:05,780
are we going to differ?

1839
01:19:05,780 --> 01:19:07,400
Um, you know, do you want

1840
01:19:07,400 --> 01:19:08,900
to spend the time
to debate it out

1841
01:19:08,900 --> 01:19:10,579
right now or do you mean

1842
01:19:10,579 --> 01:19:12,229
we do have a motion
and a second.

1843
01:19:12,229 --> 01:19:14,150
And could we get

1844
01:19:14,150 --> 01:19:15,259
some sense of
the commission?

1845
01:19:15,259 --> 01:19:16,609
I we've heard from

1846
01:19:16,609 --> 01:19:18,739
Steve and we've
heard from Pam and I

1847
01:19:18,739 --> 01:19:19,940
concur that I think that's

1848
01:19:19,940 --> 01:19:21,260
three people are that are

1849
01:19:21,260 --> 01:19:24,499
saying if the motion
is what we've got,

1850
01:19:24,499 --> 01:19:26,030
we're no votes because we

1851
01:19:26,030 --> 01:19:27,380
have not evolved
to the point of

1852
01:19:27,380 --> 01:19:32,374
being able to use the
fourth one, okay?

1853
01:19:32,374 --> 01:19:34,069
So maybe we don't need

1854
01:19:34,069 --> 01:19:37,894
to engage ecoli
and debate yet.

1855
01:19:37,894 --> 01:19:40,430
You can call emotion

1856
01:19:40,430 --> 01:19:43,594
and call for the
question. Okay.

1857
01:19:43,594 --> 01:19:44,839
Well, explained to me

1858
01:19:44,839 --> 01:19:46,159
and emotional
one more time.

1859
01:19:46,159 --> 01:19:53,430
Does it want to adopt
tests three to 16?

1860
01:19:55,330 --> 01:20:01,114
Attachment level of
test2 and test3.

1861
01:20:01,114 --> 01:20:03,709
Test3 only 40.

1862
01:20:03,709 --> 01:20:05,434
Treatment for
marginal lands

1863
01:20:05,434 --> 01:20:06,994
non-hybrid going
to go down.

1864
01:20:06,994 --> 01:20:08,240
Well, that doesn't
offend me.

1865
01:20:08,240 --> 01:20:09,845
I can vote for that.

1866
01:20:09,845 --> 01:20:11,524
Okay.

1867
01:20:11,524 --> 01:20:13,565
All those in favor or

1868
01:20:13,565 --> 01:20:15,499
Chairman, Before
you do that,

1869
01:20:15,499 --> 01:20:17,000
it makes me a
little bit nervous

1870
01:20:17,000 --> 01:20:19,580
not voting on the motion

1871
01:20:19,580 --> 01:20:21,289
before we have
some discussion

1872
01:20:21,289 --> 01:20:24,449
unless we know that
it's going to go down.

1873
01:20:24,640 --> 01:20:27,049
Well, seriously, I mean,

1874
01:20:27,049 --> 01:20:30,545
do we want to
take the hour or

1875
01:20:30,545 --> 01:20:32,660
So that it's going to
take to really fully

1876
01:20:32,660 --> 01:20:35,119
hash it out before we
would call a vote?

1877
01:20:35,119 --> 01:20:37,070
Or do we want to
agree to differ?

1878
01:20:37,070 --> 01:20:39,200
Or is it real clear before

1879
01:20:39,200 --> 01:20:41,494
we take the vote that
it's not going to pass.

1880
01:20:41,494 --> 01:20:43,369
But I think we've got
to have some sense

1881
01:20:43,369 --> 01:20:45,980
of how we're
proceeding here.

1882
01:20:45,980 --> 01:20:47,030
If we're seriously
going to

1883
01:20:47,030 --> 01:20:48,289
take an up or down vote on

1884
01:20:48,289 --> 01:20:51,245
this and it has some
likelihood of passing.

1885
01:20:51,245 --> 01:20:53,879
I want a full
debate on it.

1886
01:20:56,020 --> 01:20:58,069
Well, how would you go

1887
01:20:58,069 --> 01:21:00,359
for tabling the motion?

1888
01:21:01,450 --> 01:21:06,059
Well, okay. So that's
not debatable.

1889
01:21:06,550 --> 01:21:09,889
There's a second to
it. I'll second it.

1890
01:21:09,889 --> 01:21:11,569
Okay. All those in favor

1891
01:21:11,569 --> 01:21:13,640
of tabling the motion?

1892
01:21:13,640 --> 01:21:18,469
I figured for eyes,

1893
01:21:18,469 --> 01:21:20,375
I've abstain so far.

1894
01:21:20,375 --> 01:21:22,835
But did I here
to over here?

1895
01:21:22,835 --> 01:21:24,440
To over there? Yes. Okay.

1896
01:21:24,440 --> 01:21:26,120
Motion to table.

1897
01:21:26,120 --> 01:21:28,430
Clifton going to
call it quickly.

1898
01:21:28,430 --> 01:21:29,599
I moved up here right

1899
01:21:29,599 --> 01:21:32,509
before to make your
Johnson made his motion,

1900
01:21:32,509 --> 01:21:35,585
which I found lot of
relief in its motion.

1901
01:21:35,585 --> 01:21:37,399
Subsequent discussion

1902
01:21:37,399 --> 01:21:38,960
as really discouraged me.

1903
01:21:38,960 --> 01:21:40,220
The reason I
moved up here,

1904
01:21:40,220 --> 01:21:44,914
I thought I saw an
opening for the kind of

1905
01:21:44,914 --> 01:21:47,719
technical resource
committee that would have

1906
01:21:47,719 --> 01:21:50,120
the the number of

1907
01:21:50,120 --> 01:21:51,754
farmers in it that
shouldn't be in it.

1908
01:21:51,754 --> 01:21:53,060
This technical resource

1909
01:21:53,060 --> 01:21:54,559
committee had to farmers,

1910
01:21:54,559 --> 01:21:57,590
none from the valley,
one from Hood River,

1911
01:21:57,590 --> 01:22:00,150
by rancher from
Eastern Oregon.

1912
01:22:00,350 --> 01:22:04,835
The net income approach,

1913
01:22:04,835 --> 01:22:06,890
I was able to present

1914
01:22:06,890 --> 01:22:09,364
the paper to them at
their third meeting.

1915
01:22:09,364 --> 01:22:11,330
It wasn't discussed until

1916
01:22:11,330 --> 01:22:13,880
at the very end of
their fifth meeting.

1917
01:22:13,880 --> 01:22:16,490
And I'm not sure
how much time

1918
01:22:16,490 --> 01:22:18,800
they spent discussing and

1919
01:22:18,800 --> 01:22:20,630
I told you maybe
five or 10 min.

1920
01:22:20,630 --> 01:22:21,799
He said, Well,
he thinks it was

1921
01:22:21,799 --> 01:22:24,304
a half-hour mixed in
with some other stuff.

1922
01:22:24,304 --> 01:22:25,160
Dick would maybe have

1923
01:22:25,160 --> 01:22:27,200
some other
information on that.

1924
01:22:27,200 --> 01:22:29,970
And I say on the
basis of that that

1925
01:22:29,970 --> 01:22:33,755
the award I don't want
to criticize to award,

1926
01:22:33,755 --> 01:22:36,830
but he said the Ag
department supports

1927
01:22:36,830 --> 01:22:40,339
the technical resource
committee's decision.

1928
01:22:40,339 --> 01:22:44,300
Now, I see their
decision to support

1929
01:22:44,300 --> 01:22:48,934
that more as loyalty,
the process. Okay.

1930
01:22:48,934 --> 01:22:52,789
I think that's what
we need to decide

1931
01:22:52,789 --> 01:22:54,319
what we're going to
keep talking about this

1932
01:22:54,319 --> 01:22:55,339
tonight or whether
we're going to put

1933
01:22:55,339 --> 01:22:56,690
it off or what
we're gonna do.

1934
01:22:56,690 --> 01:22:57,799
We've looked at and we can

1935
01:22:57,799 --> 01:22:58,789
decide whether
we want to have

1936
01:22:58,789 --> 01:23:01,829
another technical
remedy or what ever.

1937
01:23:02,560 --> 01:23:05,060
But my own,

1938
01:23:05,060 --> 01:23:07,400
you just perception is
that you're going to

1939
01:23:07,400 --> 01:23:09,170
we're going to
see a solution of

1940
01:23:09,170 --> 01:23:11,720
all the various options

1941
01:23:11,720 --> 01:23:14,254
when we start debating
and discussing,

1942
01:23:14,254 --> 01:23:15,859
what would you do I

1943
01:23:15,859 --> 01:23:17,090
preferences
would be either

1944
01:23:17,090 --> 01:23:18,080
now or later time,

1945
01:23:18,080 --> 01:23:19,430
we certainly debate among

1946
01:23:19,430 --> 01:23:21,080
ourselves rather
than go placenta it

1947
01:23:21,080 --> 01:23:22,520
back to a
committee in that

1948
01:23:22,520 --> 01:23:24,440
I think we talked it out.

1949
01:23:24,440 --> 01:23:26,719
We're going to come
to a consensus here.

1950
01:23:26,719 --> 01:23:28,984
And I don't know if we
can do that tonight,

1951
01:23:28,984 --> 01:23:30,290
but I'd rather do

1952
01:23:30,290 --> 01:23:33,149
that and send it back
to some committee.

1953
01:23:33,250 --> 01:23:35,149
I would agree with art.

1954
01:23:35,149 --> 01:23:38,300
I think we have
information

1955
01:23:38,300 --> 01:23:40,130
for us as long as we have

1956
01:23:40,130 --> 01:23:42,979
the resources to to

1957
01:23:42,979 --> 01:23:46,039
provide technical
expertise to

1958
01:23:46,039 --> 01:23:47,945
us as we go through
deliberation.

1959
01:23:47,945 --> 01:23:49,520
I agree entirely with

1960
01:23:49,520 --> 01:23:51,379
art that there's
probably not much

1961
01:23:51,379 --> 01:23:53,000
more than
externally we need

1962
01:23:53,000 --> 01:23:55,399
that need to come to
grips with the issue.

1963
01:23:55,399 --> 01:24:00,275
And I don't just go get
dinner and come back,

1964
01:24:00,275 --> 01:24:02,120
do it right now or put it

1965
01:24:02,120 --> 01:24:03,920
off to our March 3rd,

1966
01:24:03,920 --> 01:24:06,829
4th meeting where we
don't have an island.

1967
01:24:06,829 --> 01:24:08,299
We'd have to change
the agenda for

1968
01:24:08,299 --> 01:24:09,770
that because, you know,

1969
01:24:09,770 --> 01:24:12,620
you have the goal five
work session on the

1970
01:24:12,620 --> 01:24:13,970
third and then a full

1971
01:24:13,970 --> 01:24:16,249
day's worth of work
on the fourth.

1972
01:24:16,249 --> 01:24:19,310
So we'd have to
do some juggling.

1973
01:24:19,310 --> 01:24:22,085
Do you want to so

1974
01:24:22,085 --> 01:24:24,274
you can have a
special meeting?

1975
01:24:24,274 --> 01:24:28,834
We have The golf five
workshop all day.

1976
01:24:28,834 --> 01:24:30,210
Yeah.

1977
01:24:30,880 --> 01:24:33,079
So we'd be six weeks out

1978
01:24:33,079 --> 01:24:34,789
without a special amino.

1979
01:24:34,789 --> 01:24:37,160
Does it have to be
all-day meeting

1980
01:24:37,160 --> 01:24:40,715
is four-fifths, five.

1981
01:24:40,715 --> 01:24:45,469
Oh, that's pretty
cool, right?

1982
01:24:45,469 --> 01:24:48,380
Trial those two days
almost certainly on

1983
01:24:48,380 --> 01:24:53,870
maybe I'm prepared to

1984
01:24:53,870 --> 01:24:54,889
do it tonight rather

1985
01:24:54,889 --> 01:24:56,089
than printed
out six weeks.

1986
01:24:56,089 --> 01:24:57,470
Do I actually have a list

1987
01:24:57,470 --> 01:24:59,014
of my throat
onto something?

1988
01:24:59,014 --> 01:25:00,949
Started talking
right before I

1989
01:25:00,949 --> 01:25:03,049
decided we needed to
deal with the emotion.

1990
01:25:03,049 --> 01:25:06,029
Maybe we should
start there.

1991
01:25:06,760 --> 01:25:09,724
Taking two to non
high-value. Well, we can.

1992
01:25:09,724 --> 01:25:11,000
Let's go six and see

1993
01:25:11,000 --> 01:25:12,664
where that would
be my preference.

1994
01:25:12,664 --> 01:25:13,895
Okay.

1995
01:25:13,895 --> 01:25:17,524
Hector, Do you want
to drag you see well,

1996
01:25:17,524 --> 01:25:20,105
my proposal is
simply that we

1997
01:25:20,105 --> 01:25:22,489
accept what's

1998
01:25:22,489 --> 01:25:24,619
been proposed already
for high-value.

1999
01:25:24,619 --> 01:25:27,049
But then we go
for all EF view

2000
01:25:27,049 --> 01:25:29,974
we accept proposition to,

2001
01:25:29,974 --> 01:25:33,200
I guess it is on
our agenda here.

2002
01:25:33,200 --> 01:25:36,470
Just to I think
that's what I heard.

2003
01:25:36,470 --> 01:25:41,330
Support two is for only
for non high value,

2004
01:25:41,330 --> 01:25:44,524
high value, high value.

2005
01:25:44,524 --> 01:25:49,265
Test three for all
high-value or not.

2006
01:25:49,265 --> 01:25:52,010
Yeah. So that couldn't
be applied to

2007
01:25:52,010 --> 01:25:54,860
either a menu there.

2008
01:25:54,860 --> 01:26:01,114
Just to for PFU

2009
01:26:01,114 --> 01:26:04,639
wherever the Valley
or anywhere.

2010
01:26:04,639 --> 01:26:05,839
Is there any reason

2011
01:26:05,839 --> 01:26:06,785
why you wouldn't
want to make

2012
01:26:06,785 --> 01:26:09,410
test three available? No.

2013
01:26:09,410 --> 01:26:11,029
I think we we

2014
01:26:11,029 --> 01:26:12,759
make tests three
available everywhere.

2015
01:26:12,759 --> 01:26:15,274
And three all ag land

2016
01:26:15,274 --> 01:26:18,259
to only two non
high-value real Hecker,

2017
01:26:18,259 --> 01:26:19,160
I guess I'd have to ask

2018
01:26:19,160 --> 01:26:20,060
you if for no
other reason than

2019
01:26:20,060 --> 01:26:22,340
the technical
resource committees

2020
01:26:22,340 --> 01:26:23,945
interesting interest.

2021
01:26:23,945 --> 01:26:25,654
Why not one?

2022
01:26:25,654 --> 01:26:29,070
Maybe one.

2023
01:26:32,370 --> 01:26:34,990
I don't have a
good argument

2024
01:26:34,990 --> 01:26:36,414
for not putting
one accepted.

2025
01:26:36,414 --> 01:26:40,030
It. It's very simple.
Straightforward.

2026
01:26:40,030 --> 01:26:43,764
Does preserve the
agricultural base.

2027
01:26:43,764 --> 01:26:46,629
And I didn't hear

2028
01:26:46,629 --> 01:26:48,459
anyone thinking

2029
01:26:48,459 --> 01:26:49,870
that was particularly
desirable.

2030
01:26:49,870 --> 01:26:50,415
I don t think that

2031
01:26:50,415 --> 01:26:51,834
helps folks here
in the valley.

2032
01:26:51,834 --> 01:26:53,919
Maybe it helps folks
across the mountain.

2033
01:26:53,919 --> 01:26:56,319
So I think Hamlet spoke

2034
01:26:56,319 --> 01:26:59,290
to the fact that
it would be more

2035
01:26:59,290 --> 01:27:02,140
desirable for
him than test

2036
01:27:02,140 --> 01:27:05,410
who would be although
he wanted Test3.

2037
01:27:05,410 --> 01:27:06,279
Test3.

2038
01:27:06,279 --> 01:27:08,439
But if he had
his druthers,

2039
01:27:08,439 --> 01:27:13,000
it was one or two or
three first and then

2040
01:27:13,000 --> 01:27:15,090
1.3 if he could

2041
01:27:15,090 --> 01:27:17,900
you still work even
under test one,

2042
01:27:17,900 --> 01:27:18,920
you still have to meet

2043
01:27:18,920 --> 01:27:20,060
the requirements in

2044
01:27:20,060 --> 01:27:22,095
the statute that you know,

2045
01:27:22,095 --> 01:27:22,700
it doesn't have

2046
01:27:22,700 --> 01:27:25,160
the principally
directed requirement.

2047
01:27:25,160 --> 01:27:27,859
It's still as
prospective person

2048
01:27:27,859 --> 01:27:29,134
could promise to do it.

2049
01:27:29,134 --> 01:27:30,875
Maybe I maybe I can

2050
01:27:30,875 --> 01:27:32,180
have a couple
of comments on

2051
01:27:32,180 --> 01:27:33,260
why we recommended test.

2052
01:27:33,260 --> 01:27:34,490
One is a temporary
use in some

2053
01:27:34,490 --> 01:27:36,364
of our concerns on it.

2054
01:27:36,364 --> 01:27:38,599
The principally directed
it's really not

2055
01:27:38,599 --> 01:27:40,130
a statutory requirement

2056
01:27:40,130 --> 01:27:41,585
that was in our rules,

2057
01:27:41,585 --> 01:27:44,059
but we were concerned
about the element of

2058
01:27:44,059 --> 01:27:45,169
this that talks about

2059
01:27:45,169 --> 01:27:46,745
current currently
employed.

2060
01:27:46,745 --> 01:27:48,350
There is no It just says

2061
01:27:48,350 --> 01:27:50,090
160 acres and
currently employed.

2062
01:27:50,090 --> 01:27:52,250
How much currently
employed?

2063
01:27:52,250 --> 01:27:54,860
Who who is living and
we are concerned,

2064
01:27:54,860 --> 01:27:56,420
even though it's not a
statutory provision,

2065
01:27:56,420 --> 01:27:59,165
we are concerns where
we differ from the TRC.

2066
01:27:59,165 --> 01:28:00,110
We are concerned who

2067
01:28:00,110 --> 01:28:01,415
is living in
that dwelling?

2068
01:28:01,415 --> 01:28:03,229
Somebody that has
the wherewithal

2069
01:28:03,229 --> 01:28:03,800
could go out and

2070
01:28:03,800 --> 01:28:06,169
buy 160 or 320 acres.

2071
01:28:06,169 --> 01:28:07,759
Somebody else could
be farming it it's

2072
01:28:07,759 --> 01:28:09,964
currently employed.
They've got a dwelling.

2073
01:28:09,964 --> 01:28:11,900
The TRC felt that
was fine because it

2074
01:28:11,900 --> 01:28:14,195
protects the land
base staff as

2075
01:28:14,195 --> 01:28:15,725
we are concerned
about that

2076
01:28:15,725 --> 01:28:17,464
because somebody
with the wherewithal

2077
01:28:17,464 --> 01:28:18,964
might not be
even farming it.

2078
01:28:18,964 --> 01:28:21,259
What's your answer
to this tRNA when

2079
01:28:21,259 --> 01:28:23,779
they farmed dwelling
or non-pharm.

2080
01:28:23,779 --> 01:28:25,879
But if the purpose
is not to regulate

2081
01:28:25,879 --> 01:28:28,370
which individual gets
to live out there,

2082
01:28:28,370 --> 01:28:29,420
but to preserve land

2083
01:28:29,420 --> 01:28:31,190
and relatively
large blocks.

2084
01:28:31,190 --> 01:28:32,914
Why is there a
staff concerned?

2085
01:28:32,914 --> 01:28:34,490
Well, that is our concern.

2086
01:28:34,490 --> 01:28:36,349
We believe that we don't
have that purpose.

2087
01:28:36,349 --> 01:28:37,910
That's the TRC purpose not

2088
01:28:37,910 --> 01:28:39,529
to regulate who's
living on the drawing.

2089
01:28:39,529 --> 01:28:41,449
We are concerned
that is a problem.

2090
01:28:41,449 --> 01:28:43,460
Wait a second.
Isn't it true

2091
01:28:43,460 --> 01:28:46,760
that any of these
tests would

2092
01:28:46,760 --> 01:28:49,310
have the statutory
requirement

2093
01:28:49,310 --> 01:28:50,389
about customarily

2094
01:28:50,389 --> 01:28:51,800
provided in
conjunction with farm?

2095
01:28:51,800 --> 01:28:53,015
Yeah, that's correct.

2096
01:28:53,015 --> 01:28:57,500
So why would the audio
test not apply to

2097
01:28:57,500 --> 01:28:58,669
the one-sixth when you're

2098
01:28:58,669 --> 01:29:00,259
trying to
determine how much

2099
01:29:00,259 --> 01:29:04,114
of the round would
be in farm use?

2100
01:29:04,114 --> 01:29:07,639
Again, 160 acre test
is a minimum parcel,

2101
01:29:07,639 --> 01:29:10,609
so it doesn't say that
it's 160 acres of no,

2102
01:29:10,609 --> 01:29:15,064
I realized that it
does still apply.

2103
01:29:15,064 --> 01:29:17,044
I mean, something
has to be planted.

2104
01:29:17,044 --> 01:29:18,769
And what what's

2105
01:29:18,769 --> 01:29:20,510
the latest ruling
and a blue ball

2106
01:29:20,510 --> 01:29:24,619
on what it takes to
satisfy in farm use.

2107
01:29:24,619 --> 01:29:27,064
One of the two of
you must know, well,

2108
01:29:27,064 --> 01:29:31,100
it had to be at a specified
level and it uses

2109
01:29:31,100 --> 01:29:32,390
the key to what was

2110
01:29:32,390 --> 01:29:34,819
considered a
commercial level.

2111
01:29:34,819 --> 01:29:36,710
So if you had a
standard that you had

2112
01:29:36,710 --> 01:29:39,439
to produce a
certain amount or

2113
01:29:39,439 --> 01:29:41,269
be it a commercial
scale because that's

2114
01:29:41,269 --> 01:29:43,610
the existing rule language

2115
01:29:43,610 --> 01:29:45,004
that's in place now,

2116
01:29:45,004 --> 01:29:47,059
you had to have
enough operating

2117
01:29:47,059 --> 01:29:48,890
on the ground in

2118
01:29:48,890 --> 01:29:50,509
current employment
to reach

2119
01:29:50,509 --> 01:29:51,889
that commercial
scale or be

2120
01:29:51,889 --> 01:29:53,944
capable of that
commercial scale.

2121
01:29:53,944 --> 01:29:56,930
Test one is proposed
by the TRC,

2122
01:29:56,930 --> 01:29:58,940
removes that
issue of scale.

2123
01:29:58,940 --> 01:29:59,990
It just says if you have

2124
01:29:59,990 --> 01:30:02,120
160 acres and it's

2125
01:30:02,120 --> 01:30:03,859
currently employed
at any level,

2126
01:30:03,859 --> 01:30:05,809
which in Oregon law is

2127
01:30:05,809 --> 01:30:08,344
very low to meet that
minimum threshold.

2128
01:30:08,344 --> 01:30:10,759
There was no
connection between

2129
01:30:10,759 --> 01:30:13,879
the the the land

2130
01:30:13,879 --> 01:30:15,470
and the dwelling
and the farmer.

2131
01:30:15,470 --> 01:30:17,569
It has been the
department's position and

2132
01:30:17,569 --> 01:30:19,759
it's in the current
rule that farmed

2133
01:30:19,759 --> 01:30:21,410
dwellings or for farmers

2134
01:30:21,410 --> 01:30:23,210
and that it is a person

2135
01:30:23,210 --> 01:30:26,749
or persons is principally
engaged in farming.

2136
01:30:26,749 --> 01:30:28,969
And that is why we made

2137
01:30:28,969 --> 01:30:31,460
the recommendation
to modify

2138
01:30:31,460 --> 01:30:33,770
the TRC report to say

2139
01:30:33,770 --> 01:30:36,770
a temporary dwelling,
we wanted something.

2140
01:30:36,770 --> 01:30:40,340
The only actual
way to determine

2141
01:30:40,340 --> 01:30:42,620
that someone is a farmer

2142
01:30:42,620 --> 01:30:43,864
as an applicant is

2143
01:30:43,864 --> 01:30:45,829
if they have
actually farmed.

2144
01:30:45,829 --> 01:30:49,924
And at least it's
clear and objective.

2145
01:30:49,924 --> 01:30:51,590
We could go back

2146
01:30:51,590 --> 01:30:52,939
if you don't like
temporary dwellings,

2147
01:30:52,939 --> 01:30:54,680
you can go back to the
language that's in

2148
01:30:54,680 --> 01:30:56,659
the rule now that
has the county

2149
01:30:56,659 --> 01:30:58,880
say 160 acres and

2150
01:30:58,880 --> 01:31:01,879
the person or persons
is principally engaged.

2151
01:31:01,879 --> 01:31:03,560
Then we believe you meet

2152
01:31:03,560 --> 01:31:04,909
the statutory standard

2153
01:31:04,909 --> 01:31:06,379
that the dwelling
is customarily

2154
01:31:06,379 --> 01:31:08,029
provided in conjunction
with farm use,

2155
01:31:08,029 --> 01:31:10,475
then what would TRC
is response to that?

2156
01:31:10,475 --> 01:31:11,809
Why did they
pick that out?

2157
01:31:11,809 --> 01:31:13,265
Why did they not included?

2158
01:31:13,265 --> 01:31:14,929
I believe their reasoning

2159
01:31:14,929 --> 01:31:16,760
was that the objective
of goal three

2160
01:31:16,760 --> 01:31:18,740
was to maintain
the land base and

2161
01:31:18,740 --> 01:31:21,889
that the goal and
the statute don't

2162
01:31:21,889 --> 01:31:25,459
require that the
dwelling before

2163
01:31:25,459 --> 01:31:27,619
the farmer and
that's where

2164
01:31:27,619 --> 01:31:31,145
the department parts
company with the TRC.

2165
01:31:31,145 --> 01:31:34,370
Also. There were
three things

2166
01:31:34,370 --> 01:31:36,484
that Phil said where
their objectives.

2167
01:31:36,484 --> 01:31:38,630
One was preserved,
protected land base,

2168
01:31:38,630 --> 01:31:40,715
and so maybe the
160 does that.

2169
01:31:40,715 --> 01:31:42,979
But the second one
he had was minimized

2170
01:31:42,979 --> 01:31:45,260
conflicts with I have

2171
01:31:45,260 --> 01:31:47,569
non-farm uses with
commercial pharmacist

2172
01:31:47,569 --> 01:31:50,270
and that one is
not satisfied.

2173
01:31:50,270 --> 01:31:51,739
If anybody who can afford

2174
01:31:51,739 --> 01:31:52,730
hundred and 60
acres can go

2175
01:31:52,730 --> 01:31:54,244
build a house out there.

2176
01:31:54,244 --> 01:31:55,580
And that's what we heard

2177
01:31:55,580 --> 01:31:57,604
from the farmers
yesterday.

2178
01:31:57,604 --> 01:32:00,380
Their concern was
people who really

2179
01:32:00,380 --> 01:32:01,580
weren't farmers
were the ones

2180
01:32:01,580 --> 01:32:02,884
that were complaining.

2181
01:32:02,884 --> 01:32:04,850
So just the presence
of a dwelling without

2182
01:32:04,850 --> 01:32:08,479
an old-fashioned need
showing where you

2183
01:32:08,479 --> 01:32:10,759
could have 160
or plus acres

2184
01:32:10,759 --> 01:32:11,930
of agricultural activity

2185
01:32:11,930 --> 01:32:13,730
without a dwelling by

2186
01:32:13,730 --> 01:32:15,469
allowing it to be a
freestanding dwelling,

2187
01:32:15,469 --> 01:32:18,050
not directly related
to the let's look.

2188
01:32:18,050 --> 01:32:20,000
Far means we're
losing something.

2189
01:32:20,000 --> 01:32:22,550
Your game, you're inviting

2190
01:32:22,550 --> 01:32:24,605
conflict uses to go.

2191
01:32:24,605 --> 01:32:26,179
Maybe people who
are wealthy,

2192
01:32:26,179 --> 01:32:27,949
you can build
houses to get

2193
01:32:27,949 --> 01:32:30,679
their hands dirty in
the farming exercises.

2194
01:32:30,679 --> 01:32:32,689
I think I don't like

2195
01:32:32,689 --> 01:32:35,300
the whole thing
because I don t

2196
01:32:35,300 --> 01:32:37,010
think even the principally

2197
01:32:37,010 --> 01:32:40,069
involved erected
is worth much.

2198
01:32:40,069 --> 01:32:41,510
But at least it's
better than just

2199
01:32:41,510 --> 01:32:43,099
saying if you can
afford 160 acres,

2200
01:32:43,099 --> 01:32:44,389
you can have a house so
they're white and put

2201
01:32:44,389 --> 01:32:45,814
that back in,
according to Rosalind,

2202
01:32:45,814 --> 01:32:47,389
do we have do we have

2203
01:32:47,389 --> 01:32:49,730
a TRC representative
still hear

2204
01:32:49,730 --> 01:32:52,294
speak to us on
the merits of

2205
01:32:52,294 --> 01:32:54,109
adding the language
principally

2206
01:32:54,109 --> 01:32:56,129
engaged or whatever it is.

2207
01:32:57,670 --> 01:33:02,970
Upon hearing about
impedance impedance,

2208
01:33:04,510 --> 01:33:07,189
once I asked I
asked Jim if

2209
01:33:07,189 --> 01:33:09,499
he feels comfortable
who was on it,

2210
01:33:09,499 --> 01:33:11,960
women respond to
that question.

2211
01:33:11,960 --> 01:33:13,764
Ed's gun warn everybody.

2212
01:33:13,764 --> 01:33:19,350
I guess I hadn't hung
around too long.

2213
01:33:23,800 --> 01:33:27,630
I'm trying to remember
the direction

2214
01:33:27,630 --> 01:33:30,500
and intent of our
discussion on that issue.

2215
01:33:30,500 --> 01:33:32,180
And there was a
great deal of

2216
01:33:32,180 --> 01:33:34,669
discussion about
that whole matter.

2217
01:33:34,669 --> 01:33:37,489
And I think it was
my understanding of

2218
01:33:37,489 --> 01:33:41,825
that they want 160 acres

2219
01:33:41,825 --> 01:33:44,569
was considered
large enough,

2220
01:33:44,569 --> 01:33:48,660
support most types
of agriculture.

2221
01:33:49,570 --> 01:33:52,924
And it preserved
the land base,

2222
01:33:52,924 --> 01:33:55,490
which was the
first concern

2223
01:33:55,490 --> 01:33:58,339
that the farmer or

2224
01:33:58,339 --> 01:34:01,730
the applicant would have

2225
01:34:01,730 --> 01:34:04,459
to be using the land

2226
01:34:04,459 --> 01:34:05,540
for agriculture
in order to

2227
01:34:05,540 --> 01:34:07,745
meet the statutory
requirements.

2228
01:34:07,745 --> 01:34:13,100
But that the
committee was mostly

2229
01:34:13,100 --> 01:34:15,320
concerned with
getting away from

2230
01:34:15,320 --> 01:34:16,850
a two-year test
or two out of

2231
01:34:16,850 --> 01:34:19,590
three or test issue.

2232
01:34:21,280 --> 01:34:26,060
Now, as far as
adding back in

2233
01:34:26,060 --> 01:34:31,295
a principally engaged
provision in there,

2234
01:34:31,295 --> 01:34:33,019
I'm not sure I could speak

2235
01:34:33,019 --> 01:34:34,775
for the committee on that.

2236
01:34:34,775 --> 01:34:37,789
I think some of
the planners at

2237
01:34:37,789 --> 01:34:41,659
Rhonda committee
had some concerns

2238
01:34:41,659 --> 01:34:44,014
about that that language

2239
01:34:44,014 --> 01:34:46,009
being difficult
to administer,

2240
01:34:46,009 --> 01:34:47,509
I think is what they
were concerned.

2241
01:34:47,509 --> 01:34:48,709
We're not clear on object.

2242
01:34:48,709 --> 01:34:49,879
It's not clear
and objective.

2243
01:34:49,879 --> 01:34:51,230
It's difficult
to administer

2244
01:34:51,230 --> 01:34:52,534
and all handling.

2245
01:34:52,534 --> 01:34:54,110
Several times there says

2246
01:34:54,110 --> 01:34:56,630
that set at the
committee meeting

2247
01:34:56,630 --> 01:34:59,240
that that you can't

2248
01:34:59,240 --> 01:35:01,039
manage the intent
of the farmer,

2249
01:35:01,039 --> 01:35:02,840
the person can
turnaround the next day

2250
01:35:02,840 --> 01:35:04,730
and sell it to somebody
from San Diego.

2251
01:35:04,730 --> 01:35:07,280
And so why are we
trying to do this?

2252
01:35:07,280 --> 01:35:09,440
As long as we've got
a land block large

2253
01:35:09,440 --> 01:35:11,599
enough to support
a firearm

2254
01:35:11,599 --> 01:35:13,130
regardless of
who's farming it

2255
01:35:13,130 --> 01:35:14,750
then and that it

2256
01:35:14,750 --> 01:35:16,099
is in some type of

2257
01:35:16,099 --> 01:35:17,330
agriculture as required

2258
01:35:17,330 --> 01:35:18,919
under statutory rules.

2259
01:35:18,919 --> 01:35:21,470
Then beyond that point,

2260
01:35:21,470 --> 01:35:23,584
he didn't feel I

2261
01:35:23,584 --> 01:35:25,940
needed to regulate
it further.

2262
01:35:25,940 --> 01:35:27,860
That's consistent with
my recollection too,

2263
01:35:27,860 --> 01:35:31,070
and I recall some of
the reasoning. Okay.

2264
01:35:31,070 --> 01:35:32,899
Suppose somebody
from California

2265
01:35:32,899 --> 01:35:34,579
with a lot of
equity comes up in,

2266
01:35:34,579 --> 01:35:37,100
buys 160 acres or 320,

2267
01:35:37,100 --> 01:35:38,674
and it puts a house on it.

2268
01:35:38,674 --> 01:35:40,339
That tract of land.

2269
01:35:40,339 --> 01:35:41,825
The balance of that land

2270
01:35:41,825 --> 01:35:44,479
is certainly
large enough to

2271
01:35:44,479 --> 01:35:46,399
be leased and be

2272
01:35:46,399 --> 01:35:49,355
a constituent portion
of somebody's land.

2273
01:35:49,355 --> 01:35:51,440
And yes, it's true

2274
01:35:51,440 --> 01:35:52,460
that you may
get somebody in

2275
01:35:52,460 --> 01:35:53,719
the dwelling who
is in farming.

2276
01:35:53,719 --> 01:35:54,829
But it is also true

2277
01:35:54,829 --> 01:35:56,839
that even if you
have a test that

2278
01:35:56,839 --> 01:35:58,039
guarantees that
the person is

2279
01:35:58,039 --> 01:35:58,910
farming when he or

2280
01:35:58,910 --> 01:36:00,094
she gets into
the dwelling,

2281
01:36:00,094 --> 01:36:02,524
they may quit farming
one year later.

2282
01:36:02,524 --> 01:36:04,040
For n, it's a

2283
01:36:04,040 --> 01:36:05,959
wild goose chase
in a sense to try,

2284
01:36:05,959 --> 01:36:08,450
to try to ensure

2285
01:36:08,450 --> 01:36:10,190
that only a farmer
lives there.

2286
01:36:10,190 --> 01:36:11,704
On the other hand,

2287
01:36:11,704 --> 01:36:13,384
the argument is, well,

2288
01:36:13,384 --> 01:36:16,685
if you require an
income history,

2289
01:36:16,685 --> 01:36:19,160
then you're unlikely to be

2290
01:36:19,160 --> 01:36:20,554
identifying a person

2291
01:36:20,554 --> 01:36:22,504
who's serious
about farming.

2292
01:36:22,504 --> 01:36:24,724
And even the
people who are,

2293
01:36:24,724 --> 01:36:26,480
the people who
advocate that,

2294
01:36:26,480 --> 01:36:28,009
I don t think would argue

2295
01:36:28,009 --> 01:36:29,329
that it's
foolproof because

2296
01:36:29,329 --> 01:36:30,770
a person could
find foreign

2297
01:36:30,770 --> 01:36:32,420
for two years
and then quit.

2298
01:36:32,420 --> 01:36:35,285
But at least if the
person had a record,

2299
01:36:35,285 --> 01:36:37,070
there's a greater
likelihood

2300
01:36:37,070 --> 01:36:38,600
that that person
is going to keep

2301
01:36:38,600 --> 01:36:40,280
farming than the
person who just comes

2302
01:36:40,280 --> 01:36:43,050
up from California on
the one-sixteenth.

2303
01:36:44,200 --> 01:36:47,360
If I might, Mr. chair.

2304
01:36:47,360 --> 01:36:49,654
As that, I think Jim

2305
01:36:49,654 --> 01:36:51,169
correctly characterize

2306
01:36:51,169 --> 01:36:53,629
this discussion
before the TRC.

2307
01:36:53,629 --> 01:36:56,030
Some of the concerns
that were also

2308
01:36:56,030 --> 01:36:59,524
raised in that discussion
regarding Yes,

2309
01:36:59,524 --> 01:37:03,515
The 160 acres or 320 is
a large enough block

2310
01:37:03,515 --> 01:37:05,569
and certainly
large enough to

2311
01:37:05,569 --> 01:37:08,509
be used for
agricultural purposes.

2312
01:37:08,509 --> 01:37:12,410
But we saw some slides
where there were

2313
01:37:12,410 --> 01:37:14,869
situations where you
get 160 acre track and

2314
01:37:14,869 --> 01:37:16,040
someone plops the dwelling

2315
01:37:16,040 --> 01:37:17,810
right out in the middle.

2316
01:37:17,810 --> 01:37:19,489
And if it's someone who

2317
01:37:19,489 --> 01:37:21,529
is not connected
to farming,

2318
01:37:21,529 --> 01:37:24,169
it makes it harder
for farmers to

2319
01:37:24,169 --> 01:37:26,764
lease that land if
that is their intent.

2320
01:37:26,764 --> 01:37:29,254
From an operational
standpoint.

2321
01:37:29,254 --> 01:37:31,399
It also creates a land

2322
01:37:31,399 --> 01:37:33,200
market where people can

2323
01:37:33,200 --> 01:37:34,790
simply know that they can

2324
01:37:34,790 --> 01:37:36,650
get 160 acre
tracks and build,

2325
01:37:36,650 --> 01:37:38,644
build a house on it.

2326
01:37:38,644 --> 01:37:41,209
The last Legislature added

2327
01:37:41,209 --> 01:37:43,685
in replacement dwellings

2328
01:37:43,685 --> 01:37:46,265
As a much easier
standard than

2329
01:37:46,265 --> 01:37:49,309
the pre-existing
non-conforming use standard.

2330
01:37:49,309 --> 01:37:51,290
And so someone who
has a lot of money,

2331
01:37:51,290 --> 01:37:52,579
who wants to live
out in the country,

2332
01:37:52,579 --> 01:37:54,620
they can find
any size track

2333
01:37:54,620 --> 01:37:56,089
with the preexisting
dwelling,

2334
01:37:56,089 --> 01:37:57,724
tear it down and build

2335
01:37:57,724 --> 01:37:59,555
the house of their dreams.

2336
01:37:59,555 --> 01:38:02,449
But as a replacement
dwelling.

2337
01:38:02,449 --> 01:38:05,449
And so the countervailing
concern that yes,

2338
01:38:05,449 --> 01:38:06,560
the tract is large enough,

2339
01:38:06,560 --> 01:38:08,270
but it creates a
land market and if

2340
01:38:08,270 --> 01:38:10,429
the dwelling is
improperly cited,

2341
01:38:10,429 --> 01:38:14,749
just perpetuates that
conflict situation.

2342
01:38:14,749 --> 01:38:16,700
Oh, excuse me. So I
was just going to

2343
01:38:16,700 --> 01:38:18,050
say the committee
did struggle

2344
01:38:18,050 --> 01:38:21,409
with it and landed
where they did,

2345
01:38:21,409 --> 01:38:24,455
but they was discussed
rather extensively.

2346
01:38:24,455 --> 01:38:25,760
You're saying most
counties don't

2347
01:38:25,760 --> 01:38:27,139
have citing criteria for

2348
01:38:27,139 --> 01:38:29,360
dwellings on land to

2349
01:38:29,360 --> 01:38:33,290
farm dwelling adults
do not that far side.

2350
01:38:33,290 --> 01:38:34,999
And I think that's

2351
01:38:34,999 --> 01:38:37,620
a great idea,
but most do not.

2352
01:38:38,200 --> 01:38:40,865
That's news to me too.

2353
01:38:40,865 --> 01:38:44,060
I mean, you could put
something in you up

2354
01:38:44,060 --> 01:38:45,590
the dwelling had
to be cited close

2355
01:38:45,590 --> 01:38:47,180
to erode or something,

2356
01:38:47,180 --> 01:38:48,290
but it gets more

2357
01:38:48,290 --> 01:38:50,580
complicated when
you do that.

2358
01:38:54,850 --> 01:38:58,800
So did I hear

2359
01:38:59,020 --> 01:39:01,940
Hector was moving towards
cramming emotion.

2360
01:39:01,940 --> 01:39:03,050
I think well, I
was trying to

2361
01:39:03,050 --> 01:39:04,339
find out where
we were at here

2362
01:39:04,339 --> 01:39:05,929
because I want
to get a motion

2363
01:39:05,929 --> 01:39:07,549
that has a chance of
going through there,

2364
01:39:07,549 --> 01:39:09,889
and I actually
could accept

2365
01:39:09,889 --> 01:39:16,730
12.3 for nephew and
high-value only three?

2366
01:39:16,730 --> 01:39:19,699
No. That's where
you're pointing at me.

2367
01:39:19,699 --> 01:39:21,500
You're the one
that was called.

2368
01:39:21,500 --> 01:39:22,520
The only question
I would have

2369
01:39:22,520 --> 01:39:24,320
is how we resolve

2370
01:39:24,320 --> 01:39:27,604
the one issue with
regard to, I mean,

2371
01:39:27,604 --> 01:39:29,695
I personally accept in,

2372
01:39:29,695 --> 01:39:31,790
can accept the notion that

2373
01:39:31,790 --> 01:39:33,619
preserving the
resource base is

2374
01:39:33,619 --> 01:39:35,375
not the only
concern on one.

2375
01:39:35,375 --> 01:39:37,909
And so bronze
language that

2376
01:39:37,909 --> 01:39:40,969
comes out of the existing
rule to maintain

2377
01:39:40,969 --> 01:39:46,219
the active farmer
resident makes sense to

2378
01:39:46,219 --> 01:39:48,394
me and to the extent that

2379
01:39:48,394 --> 01:39:49,820
I'm called upon
to give mine

2380
01:39:49,820 --> 01:39:51,079
in Miami thinking on it,

2381
01:39:51,079 --> 01:39:52,099
I could I could accept

2382
01:39:52,099 --> 01:39:53,359
one if that were the case.

2383
01:39:53,359 --> 01:39:54,560
In all honesty, Hector,

2384
01:39:54,560 --> 01:39:56,044
the reason I raised
one is because

2385
01:39:56,044 --> 01:39:59,584
I'm the TRC put a bunch
of time into that.

2386
01:39:59,584 --> 01:40:01,099
They produced a menu.

2387
01:40:01,099 --> 01:40:03,635
It obviously involves
a lot of people.

2388
01:40:03,635 --> 01:40:05,930
And if we're going to
toss one of those off,

2389
01:40:05,930 --> 01:40:06,799
it just seemed to me

2390
01:40:06,799 --> 01:40:07,940
that we ought to
be prepared to

2391
01:40:07,940 --> 01:40:09,169
explain to the world

2392
01:40:09,169 --> 01:40:10,654
why we chose to reject it.

2393
01:40:10,654 --> 01:40:13,699
So my thought is I
can take one with

2394
01:40:13,699 --> 01:40:15,470
that language added back

2395
01:40:15,470 --> 01:40:17,194
into address
Ron's concern.

2396
01:40:17,194 --> 01:40:19,370
Two, unknown high value,

2397
01:40:19,370 --> 01:40:23,135
and then three, of
course, the remainder.

2398
01:40:23,135 --> 01:40:23,780
If that's,

2399
01:40:23,780 --> 01:40:26,310
then that's I think
where you were going.

2400
01:40:26,310 --> 01:40:29,374
For for high-value, for

2401
01:40:29,374 --> 01:40:32,940
non high-value
only in one.

2402
01:40:33,370 --> 01:40:36,139
Mr. Chairman,
before we have

2403
01:40:36,139 --> 01:40:37,925
Hector is going
to make a motion.

2404
01:40:37,925 --> 01:40:40,189
What do we do about
the table motion?

2405
01:40:40,189 --> 01:40:41,764
It just sits there.

2406
01:40:41,764 --> 01:40:44,209
Disappears, isn't
it this period,

2407
01:40:44,209 --> 01:40:45,785
we don't have to
bring it back.

2408
01:40:45,785 --> 01:40:47,120
We didn't act on what you

2409
01:40:47,120 --> 01:40:48,784
want to make a motion
to bring out the table.

2410
01:40:48,784 --> 01:40:50,669
I can have it.

2411
01:40:51,070 --> 01:40:54,529
Proposal before you
make the motion.

2412
01:40:54,529 --> 01:40:58,130
Could be somebody clarify

2413
01:40:58,130 --> 01:40:59,830
just to make sure
we're all tracking.

2414
01:40:59,830 --> 01:41:01,219
I'm trapped and what I

2415
01:41:01,219 --> 01:41:02,689
think I'm hearing
here and what I

2416
01:41:02,689 --> 01:41:05,270
think I can suffer
is that we accept

2417
01:41:05,270 --> 01:41:09,380
the menu approach in
that we have 12.3,

2418
01:41:09,380 --> 01:41:13,684
but we allow 12.3
only on EF view,

2419
01:41:13,684 --> 01:41:17,420
we allow only three
high-value, high-value.

2420
01:41:17,420 --> 01:41:21,065
And why and one
is much too.

2421
01:41:21,065 --> 01:41:23,120
To put back in

2422
01:41:23,120 --> 01:41:26,120
the requirement
about principally,

2423
01:41:26,120 --> 01:41:30,469
principally, I'd like
you to the applicants.

2424
01:41:30,469 --> 01:41:32,390
Work is principally
directed

2425
01:41:32,390 --> 01:41:33,560
toward whatever we've

2426
01:41:33,560 --> 01:41:36,959
had before listing rule
language existing.

2427
01:41:37,060 --> 01:41:40,024
Could I ask one
clarifying question

2428
01:41:40,024 --> 01:41:42,050
on the use of tests?

2429
01:41:42,050 --> 01:41:43,850
Three, are you saying,

2430
01:41:43,850 --> 01:41:44,959
Commissioner Macpherson,

2431
01:41:44,959 --> 01:41:47,120
that only applies
to high-value,

2432
01:41:47,120 --> 01:41:48,649
meaning that part of it,

2433
01:41:48,649 --> 01:41:50,599
that's the $80,000 test,

2434
01:41:50,599 --> 01:41:52,805
not because Test3
as written,

2435
01:41:52,805 --> 01:41:55,940
tests three can
apply to all three.

2436
01:41:55,940 --> 01:41:59,944
All three apply. The
40,000 can apply.

2437
01:41:59,944 --> 01:42:02,270
Out of test3 to other
high-value lamps,

2438
01:42:02,270 --> 01:42:03,860
what you're
saying, the 40,000

2439
01:42:03,860 --> 01:42:05,720
would apply to
the EMF due.

2440
01:42:05,720 --> 01:42:09,754
So but if your high-value,

2441
01:42:09,754 --> 01:42:12,290
you go to the 80,000
and that only applies

2442
01:42:12,290 --> 01:42:15,064
and that applies
to all high value.

2443
01:42:15,064 --> 01:42:16,969
Well, that's test3
has written it

2444
01:42:16,969 --> 01:42:19,339
has that dichotomy
entity has

2445
01:42:19,339 --> 01:42:20,449
a high value in

2446
01:42:20,449 --> 01:42:22,339
a non high-value component

2447
01:42:22,339 --> 01:42:25,169
built into the
test itself.

2448
01:42:25,960 --> 01:42:29,585
And then test 2.1

2449
01:42:29,585 --> 01:42:32,134
are only on non
high-value, right?

2450
01:42:32,134 --> 01:42:32,929
Okay.

2451
01:42:32,929 --> 01:42:35,509
And then one is
modified, correct?

2452
01:42:35,509 --> 01:42:37,639
I'd be I'd be
interested in

2453
01:42:37,639 --> 01:42:40,249
hearing from if we could.

2454
01:42:40,249 --> 01:42:42,439
I would like to
get some reactions

2455
01:42:42,439 --> 01:42:45,139
about what the reaction

2456
01:42:45,139 --> 01:42:46,220
is from people
who are going to

2457
01:42:46,220 --> 01:42:47,749
administer this
on the ground.

2458
01:42:47,749 --> 01:42:49,040
Is that something doable?

2459
01:42:49,040 --> 01:42:50,840
Not necessarily from
the perspective

2460
01:42:50,840 --> 01:42:52,520
of what their
testimony was,

2461
01:42:52,520 --> 01:42:55,100
but possibly from
the perspective

2462
01:42:55,100 --> 01:42:59,429
of the TRC recommendation
versus this motion.

2463
01:43:00,040 --> 01:43:03,020
Is this doable, maybe
hear from counties,

2464
01:43:03,020 --> 01:43:04,279
maybe hear from Blair,

2465
01:43:04,279 --> 01:43:06,109
and get a sense of is this

2466
01:43:06,109 --> 01:43:08,615
something that's
manageable and doable?

2467
01:43:08,615 --> 01:43:10,339
Doable again,
they've already

2468
01:43:10,339 --> 01:43:11,419
testified all of
them if they could

2469
01:43:11,419 --> 01:43:14,284
do it already. So
what's the difference?

2470
01:43:14,284 --> 01:43:17,430
I want to ask the question
or I'm a no vote.

2471
01:43:18,130 --> 01:43:21,709
I want to understand
from the perspective of

2472
01:43:21,709 --> 01:43:23,300
people who are going to

2473
01:43:23,300 --> 01:43:25,370
be administering
this decision,

2474
01:43:25,370 --> 01:43:27,469
what their reaction is to,

2475
01:43:27,469 --> 01:43:29,989
how what their reaction

2476
01:43:29,989 --> 01:43:32,719
is to if it's
administered.

2477
01:43:33,220 --> 01:43:36,080
Maybe you can
clarify. You can ask

2478
01:43:36,080 --> 01:43:38,420
anybody want me it's
free for any compiler.

2479
01:43:38,420 --> 01:43:41,869
Somebody asked for
a representative

2480
01:43:41,869 --> 01:43:43,850
from counties and also ask

2481
01:43:43,850 --> 01:43:45,710
Blair to come up

2482
01:43:45,710 --> 01:43:47,509
and I'd be curious
to hear what

2483
01:43:47,509 --> 01:43:49,955
your reactions are to

2484
01:43:49,955 --> 01:43:53,399
this proposal and
how you think.

2485
01:43:53,980 --> 01:43:55,820
I guess what you think of

2486
01:43:55,820 --> 01:43:58,970
the public policy
implications.

2487
01:43:58,970 --> 01:44:00,649
I make missionary
trip that

2488
01:44:00,649 --> 01:44:01,970
would help me the most

2489
01:44:01,970 --> 01:44:03,169
since we're out
in the audience

2490
01:44:03,169 --> 01:44:05,119
trying to pick up
on the motion.

2491
01:44:05,119 --> 01:44:06,950
If we could take each test

2492
01:44:06,950 --> 01:44:08,449
per this handout that

2493
01:44:08,449 --> 01:44:10,204
we've just gotten

2494
01:44:10,204 --> 01:44:12,425
and discuss them
individually.

2495
01:44:12,425 --> 01:44:14,854
It's my understanding
that test one

2496
01:44:14,854 --> 01:44:17,599
is going to apply
where under

2497
01:44:17,599 --> 01:44:19,369
your Molly FU
land other than

2498
01:44:19,369 --> 01:44:23,060
high-value thing with test

2499
01:44:23,060 --> 01:44:26,825
to my first comment

2500
01:44:26,825 --> 01:44:29,675
would be that were
temporary comes out of it.

2501
01:44:29,675 --> 01:44:30,770
We're not temporary.

2502
01:44:30,770 --> 01:44:31,789
That was one point.

2503
01:44:31,789 --> 01:44:32,404
You're not talking about

2504
01:44:32,404 --> 01:44:32,989
he's not talking about

2505
01:44:32,989 --> 01:44:35,014
temporary
dwellings, are you?

2506
01:44:35,014 --> 01:44:36,979
I will be acceptable to

2507
01:44:36,979 --> 01:44:39,199
the counties if you

2508
01:44:39,199 --> 01:44:40,309
took a different approach,

2509
01:44:40,309 --> 01:44:42,229
which I think is more
consistent with what

2510
01:44:42,229 --> 01:44:44,764
the legislature
did in 36, 61.

2511
01:44:44,764 --> 01:44:47,479
And that is the more
conservative in

2512
01:44:47,479 --> 01:44:49,010
the Willamette Valley and

2513
01:44:49,010 --> 01:44:51,050
less conservative and
elsewhere in the state.

2514
01:44:51,050 --> 01:44:52,789
And not necessarily
break it on

2515
01:44:52,789 --> 01:44:54,709
the high-value,
low-value issue.

2516
01:44:54,709 --> 01:44:58,189
I would propose
the test one apply

2517
01:44:58,189 --> 01:45:02,795
everywhere except in
the Willamette Valley

2518
01:45:02,795 --> 01:45:05,209
and in the Willamette
Valley period.

2519
01:45:05,209 --> 01:45:07,339
Just take it
out of the one,

2520
01:45:07,339 --> 01:45:08,659
but make it available

2521
01:45:08,659 --> 01:45:10,499
to the rest of the state.

2522
01:45:13,930 --> 01:45:16,430
What about east
of the Cascades?

2523
01:45:16,430 --> 01:45:17,870
Is that that's the rest

2524
01:45:17,870 --> 01:45:20,190
of this the rest
of the state.

2525
01:45:20,200 --> 01:45:22,265
Eastern South.

2526
01:45:22,265 --> 01:45:24,575
And there's a
code and code,

2527
01:45:24,575 --> 01:45:28,310
as well as Western Oregon.

2528
01:45:28,310 --> 01:45:31,340
He just didn't laugh
around 36, 61.

2529
01:45:31,340 --> 01:45:33,064
I'm really limited

2530
01:45:33,064 --> 01:45:34,955
non-farm loans
in the Valley.

2531
01:45:34,955 --> 01:45:36,590
I think the question
is, dwelling

2532
01:45:36,590 --> 01:45:37,849
in the valley is

2533
01:45:37,849 --> 01:45:39,199
one that anybody
in this room can

2534
01:45:39,199 --> 01:45:41,179
stand up and say is
a critical issue.

2535
01:45:41,179 --> 01:45:42,890
So I understand maybe

2536
01:45:42,890 --> 01:45:44,029
why there's
concerned about

2537
01:45:44,029 --> 01:45:47,090
test1 in the vowel.

2538
01:45:47,090 --> 01:45:49,309
I think the committee's
work needs to be

2539
01:45:49,309 --> 01:45:50,749
recognized and
that it could be

2540
01:45:50,749 --> 01:45:52,940
applied the rest
of the state.

2541
01:45:52,940 --> 01:45:54,155
And I would propose it

2542
01:45:54,155 --> 01:45:55,309
rather than breaking it

2543
01:45:55,309 --> 01:45:57,740
on a high-value,
low-value basis.

2544
01:45:57,740 --> 01:45:59,179
So the net effect
of that would

2545
01:45:59,179 --> 01:46:01,310
be it would apply

2546
01:46:01,310 --> 01:46:03,230
elsewhere if you're
trading off,

2547
01:46:03,230 --> 01:46:04,280
it doesn't apply even in

2548
01:46:04,280 --> 01:46:06,259
non high-value Valley,

2549
01:46:06,259 --> 01:46:07,700
but it would apply a phi

2550
01:46:07,700 --> 01:46:09,365
value elsewhere
in the state.

2551
01:46:09,365 --> 01:46:10,399
That's correct.

2552
01:46:10,399 --> 01:46:11,779
Because I'm sure there's

2553
01:46:11,779 --> 01:46:15,079
that much non high
value in the valley.

2554
01:46:15,079 --> 01:46:17,134
That's good. I think
there isn't a whole lot.

2555
01:46:17,134 --> 01:46:18,394
That's right.
That's part of it.

2556
01:46:18,394 --> 01:46:20,179
But I don't see

2557
01:46:20,179 --> 01:46:21,170
any reason why tell

2558
01:46:21,170 --> 01:46:22,249
him what county
the high-value

2559
01:46:22,249 --> 01:46:22,999
and tell them what county

2560
01:46:22,999 --> 01:46:24,260
shouldn't abide by
the same kind of

2561
01:46:24,260 --> 01:46:27,395
rules that we have
here in the valley.

2562
01:46:27,395 --> 01:46:29,809
There. Let's make is

2563
01:46:29,809 --> 01:46:32,369
proposing that we
can debate this.

2564
01:46:33,370 --> 01:46:37,200
With regard to test to

2565
01:46:37,570 --> 01:46:40,759
my understanding is
that you're going

2566
01:46:40,759 --> 01:46:43,834
to apply it just
to the low value.

2567
01:46:43,834 --> 01:46:46,625
Not high-value, right?

2568
01:46:46,625 --> 01:46:48,319
Stay well, I would propose

2569
01:46:48,319 --> 01:46:50,240
the same thing there
that you allow

2570
01:46:50,240 --> 01:46:52,519
that test to apply

2571
01:46:52,519 --> 01:46:54,020
everywhere in the state on

2572
01:46:54,020 --> 01:46:55,310
both high and low value,

2573
01:46:55,310 --> 01:46:56,629
but not in the Willamette

2574
01:46:56,629 --> 01:46:58,770
Valley on high-value.

2575
01:46:59,050 --> 01:47:04,985
Okay. And then
what about 33?

2576
01:47:04,985 --> 01:47:07,445
And were not happy
about the numbers.

2577
01:47:07,445 --> 01:47:09,589
But the 80,000
on high-value

2578
01:47:09,589 --> 01:47:12,245
when the 40,000
on the low value.

2579
01:47:12,245 --> 01:47:15,980
This is what we
will live with.

2580
01:47:15,980 --> 01:47:19,259
It's better than
plus proposal.

2581
01:47:20,590 --> 01:47:23,734
But I want I'm
trying to achieve

2582
01:47:23,734 --> 01:47:26,330
is we were interested
in the capability test.

2583
01:47:26,330 --> 01:47:29,614
Item two is really the
only capability test.

2584
01:47:29,614 --> 01:47:31,220
If there's concern about

2585
01:47:31,220 --> 01:47:33,050
that capability tests on

2586
01:47:33,050 --> 01:47:35,134
high-value in the valley,

2587
01:47:35,134 --> 01:47:37,369
then apply it
everywhere else.

2588
01:47:37,369 --> 01:47:38,929
Use it for a
couple of years

2589
01:47:38,929 --> 01:47:40,610
and those other
circumstances.

2590
01:47:40,610 --> 01:47:42,079
And then we can
argue whether

2591
01:47:42,079 --> 01:47:43,549
or not it would
work in the valley

2592
01:47:43,549 --> 01:47:47,700
on high-value
are not blurred.

2593
01:47:48,550 --> 01:47:50,915
It turns out test1,

2594
01:47:50,915 --> 01:47:53,000
our main concern
is we just

2595
01:47:53,000 --> 01:47:55,039
don't see how
it implements

2596
01:47:55,039 --> 01:47:56,795
the state policy of

2597
01:47:56,795 --> 01:47:58,279
determining whether
it's a commercial

2598
01:47:58,279 --> 01:47:59,330
farm extensively,

2599
01:47:59,330 --> 01:48:01,925
the relevance of the
parcel size at all,

2600
01:48:01,925 --> 01:48:03,229
even though clearly it's

2601
01:48:03,229 --> 01:48:04,669
a limitation on density,

2602
01:48:04,669 --> 01:48:07,085
you've added
additional test,

2603
01:48:07,085 --> 01:48:08,570
but we're

2604
01:48:08,570 --> 01:48:09,799
not really sure why it
should have monkeying

2605
01:48:09,799 --> 01:48:10,730
around with
something that's

2606
01:48:10,730 --> 01:48:11,930
not really going to

2607
01:48:11,930 --> 01:48:12,964
the issue of is this

2608
01:48:12,964 --> 01:48:14,360
a commercial
farm operations?

2609
01:48:14,360 --> 01:48:16,985
So we just don't think
it's further policy.

2610
01:48:16,985 --> 01:48:17,720
But I'm not going to

2611
01:48:17,720 --> 01:48:18,769
say that we think
it's going to have

2612
01:48:18,769 --> 01:48:19,939
a disastrous
result because

2613
01:48:19,939 --> 01:48:22,144
clearly the densities
will be limited.

2614
01:48:22,144 --> 01:48:24,799
Remember, vectors
proposal was

2615
01:48:24,799 --> 01:48:26,974
that we put back in the
principally director.

2616
01:48:26,974 --> 01:48:28,475
I understand that.
I think that's

2617
01:48:28,475 --> 01:48:32,149
a very tame improvement.

2618
01:48:32,149 --> 01:48:34,025
I think so.

2619
01:48:34,025 --> 01:48:34,534
Okay.

2620
01:48:34,534 --> 01:48:35,764
In terms of test

2621
01:48:35,764 --> 01:48:38,599
to the production
capability,

2622
01:48:38,599 --> 01:48:40,999
I think that
it is correct.

2623
01:48:40,999 --> 01:48:43,609
Commissioner fibers
argument that

2624
01:48:43,609 --> 01:48:45,289
there hasn't been we

2625
01:48:45,289 --> 01:48:46,370
haven't been
able to show and

2626
01:48:46,370 --> 01:48:47,389
it hasn't been tested

2627
01:48:47,389 --> 01:48:49,610
well outside
the high-value.

2628
01:48:49,610 --> 01:48:50,690
Our biggest concern, as

2629
01:48:50,690 --> 01:48:51,890
we've stated consistently,

2630
01:48:51,890 --> 01:48:53,869
is with the
high-value lands for

2631
01:48:53,869 --> 01:48:55,789
the very obvious natural
reason that they

2632
01:48:55,789 --> 01:48:58,160
have the highest
production capability.

2633
01:48:58,160 --> 01:48:59,870
The most parcels
will be able to

2634
01:48:59,870 --> 01:49:01,789
qualify for tests and

2635
01:49:01,789 --> 01:49:02,929
they're also the
most valuable.

2636
01:49:02,929 --> 01:49:04,564
So you have sort of
an ironic twist.

2637
01:49:04,564 --> 01:49:06,469
We're most concerned
about the high value.

2638
01:49:06,469 --> 01:49:08,510
And we think the high-value
lands outside of

2639
01:49:08,510 --> 01:49:11,240
the Valley should
also be protected on.

2640
01:49:11,240 --> 01:49:12,079
No one really knows how

2641
01:49:12,079 --> 01:49:12,920
this is going to operate.

2642
01:49:12,920 --> 01:49:14,629
We're really
concerned about it.

2643
01:49:14,629 --> 01:49:17,299
So we would support
the motion.

2644
01:49:17,299 --> 01:49:18,470
That's an overstatement.

2645
01:49:18,470 --> 01:49:19,849
We love to see you
get rid of this test,

2646
01:49:19,849 --> 01:49:21,440
but we're not as
concerned about it.

2647
01:49:21,440 --> 01:49:23,329
If it only limits
if it's only

2648
01:49:23,329 --> 01:49:26,065
limited to non high-value.

2649
01:49:26,065 --> 01:49:27,620
Before you go to
three and you

2650
01:49:27,620 --> 01:49:29,090
comment on the
trade-off that Russ

2651
01:49:29,090 --> 01:49:30,650
points out which
is given back to

2652
01:49:30,650 --> 01:49:32,510
high-value
statewide butt take

2653
01:49:32,510 --> 01:49:34,264
it out of the
valley as a whole.

2654
01:49:34,264 --> 01:49:35,899
Does too.

2655
01:49:35,899 --> 01:49:38,329
What I understood.
What you said,

2656
01:49:38,329 --> 01:49:39,289
something different
than what

2657
01:49:39,289 --> 01:49:40,069
I thought I heard Russ

2658
01:49:40,069 --> 01:49:42,019
say was we would have

2659
01:49:42,019 --> 01:49:47,119
the production capability
outside the valley,

2660
01:49:47,119 --> 01:49:49,399
everywhere, nowhere
in the valley.

2661
01:49:49,399 --> 01:49:50,795
That's the trade
off, but I

2662
01:49:50,795 --> 01:49:53,030
prefer the motion
as it stands,

2663
01:49:53,030 --> 01:49:55,384
protecting the
high-value land.

2664
01:49:55,384 --> 01:49:56,720
What?

2665
01:49:56,720 --> 01:49:57,589
Yes.

2666
01:49:57,589 --> 01:50:00,574
Yes. Because the way
the test operates.

2667
01:50:00,574 --> 01:50:03,169
Test three, we have

2668
01:50:03,169 --> 01:50:04,850
endorsed that
tests in the past.

2669
01:50:04,850 --> 01:50:06,545
I think you have
plenty of testimony

2670
01:50:06,545 --> 01:50:08,269
from farmers
yesterday that shows

2671
01:50:08,269 --> 01:50:11,090
that this income
standard is not

2672
01:50:11,090 --> 01:50:14,014
a full-time commercial
farm operation,

2673
01:50:14,014 --> 01:50:14,914
which you've talked about.

2674
01:50:14,914 --> 01:50:17,495
It would definitely
be supported by

2675
01:50:17,495 --> 01:50:22,984
small portion of
a farm income.

2676
01:50:22,984 --> 01:50:24,500
But we have supported

2677
01:50:24,500 --> 01:50:25,654
that will consistently
supported.

2678
01:50:25,654 --> 01:50:27,140
We think when
the high-value,

2679
01:50:27,140 --> 01:50:27,770
we're going to see

2680
01:50:27,770 --> 01:50:29,270
dramatic improvement
in terms of

2681
01:50:29,270 --> 01:50:30,379
what's been happening
now and we would

2682
01:50:30,379 --> 01:50:31,399
love to see it tested,

2683
01:50:31,399 --> 01:50:34,529
so we think that
that is fine.

2684
01:50:36,790 --> 01:50:38,300
Russ, are you having

2685
01:50:38,300 --> 01:50:39,755
second thoughts
some seconds.

2686
01:50:39,755 --> 01:50:44,000
I heard you must want
the temporary Well,

2687
01:50:44,000 --> 01:50:45,379
my conscience back here,

2688
01:50:45,379 --> 01:50:50,120
so there's concern about
my proposal with the

2689
01:50:50,120 --> 01:50:52,865
capability tests
not applying

2690
01:50:52,865 --> 01:50:56,099
the high-value
land in Nevada.

2691
01:50:57,370 --> 01:50:59,780
We're going to continue
to debate this

2692
01:50:59,780 --> 01:51:02,659
for people may go

2693
01:51:02,659 --> 01:51:03,740
to the legislature
and want

2694
01:51:03,740 --> 01:51:04,970
to talk about
it some more.

2695
01:51:04,970 --> 01:51:06,379
I understand the
commission's

2696
01:51:06,379 --> 01:51:08,539
intent with distinctive
bed for now.

2697
01:51:08,539 --> 01:51:10,309
And I think in terms of

2698
01:51:10,309 --> 01:51:12,050
the commission
going back to

2699
01:51:12,050 --> 01:51:13,640
the legislature
and saying we've

2700
01:51:13,640 --> 01:51:16,040
tried to be as

2701
01:51:16,040 --> 01:51:17,690
much in line and
consistent with

2702
01:51:17,690 --> 01:51:18,979
the philosophy that seemed

2703
01:51:18,979 --> 01:51:20,520
to be reflected than 36,

2704
01:51:20,520 --> 01:51:24,079
61, that the in the
valley and out of

2705
01:51:24,079 --> 01:51:26,509
the valley factor
needs to be injected

2706
01:51:26,509 --> 01:51:27,860
into this discussion as

2707
01:51:27,860 --> 01:51:28,940
much as the high value.

2708
01:51:28,940 --> 01:51:31,114
And that's what
I'm trying to,

2709
01:51:31,114 --> 01:51:33,439
I think John pointed

2710
01:51:33,439 --> 01:51:34,849
out that Emily would like

2711
01:51:34,849 --> 01:51:38,644
to have test number
one in Union County.

2712
01:51:38,644 --> 01:51:40,940
And this would do that
everywhere out of

2713
01:51:40,940 --> 01:51:41,899
the Willamette
Valley would

2714
01:51:41,899 --> 01:51:43,189
have test number one,

2715
01:51:43,189 --> 01:51:44,480
if there's a
problem with it,

2716
01:51:44,480 --> 01:51:46,009
after a couple of
years of reporting,

2717
01:51:46,009 --> 01:51:47,269
you can make
amendments to it.

2718
01:51:47,269 --> 01:51:50,270
But I'm not going to get

2719
01:51:50,270 --> 01:51:51,799
this basically
because most

2720
01:51:51,799 --> 01:51:52,640
of what he's talking

2721
01:51:52,640 --> 01:51:53,435
about where he wanted it,

2722
01:51:53,435 --> 01:51:55,175
wasn't it on the land that

2723
01:51:55,175 --> 01:51:57,289
was not high value?

2724
01:51:57,289 --> 01:51:59,165
I can answer. Yeah.

2725
01:51:59,165 --> 01:52:02,179
I wasn't on the
committee, So Mr.

2726
01:52:02,179 --> 01:52:03,770
Chair, I have
someone else.

2727
01:52:03,770 --> 01:52:05,870
I'd like to ask a
question about GMP's.

2728
01:52:05,870 --> 01:52:08,480
I think I think we need
to hear Jim respond

2729
01:52:08,480 --> 01:52:12,440
to the what was
it referred to?

2730
01:52:12,440 --> 01:52:14,910
Ratcheting down effect of

2731
01:52:14,980 --> 01:52:18,559
Test2 on parcel sizes

2732
01:52:18,559 --> 01:52:21,209
in areas where
it's applied.

2733
01:52:21,580 --> 01:52:23,450
Okay.

2734
01:52:23,450 --> 01:52:26,359
On that point, I I'm

2735
01:52:26,359 --> 01:52:28,805
not I'm not sure how that

2736
01:52:28,805 --> 01:52:30,304
would have a
ratcheting down effect

2737
01:52:30,304 --> 01:52:31,729
because you're

2738
01:52:31,729 --> 01:52:33,619
talking about
existing parcels

2739
01:52:33,619 --> 01:52:34,595
that are already there.

2740
01:52:34,595 --> 01:52:36,109
It's not a land
division standard.

2741
01:52:36,109 --> 01:52:37,955
It's you're looking at

2742
01:52:37,955 --> 01:52:40,460
the size of parcels
that are already there.

2743
01:52:40,460 --> 01:52:43,609
So I don't I guess
I'm not following

2744
01:52:43,609 --> 01:52:45,124
the logic here on how that

2745
01:52:45,124 --> 01:52:47,254
ratcheted down the media.

2746
01:52:47,254 --> 01:52:50,299
Maybe, maybe I was

2747
01:52:50,299 --> 01:52:54,005
looking at was the
example with that.

2748
01:52:54,005 --> 01:52:56,329
The list that came
out of your exam.

2749
01:52:56,329 --> 01:52:58,025
Thank them. Examples
that you ran in

2750
01:52:58,025 --> 01:53:01,730
Clark County where by

2751
01:53:01,730 --> 01:53:04,354
using the median number,

2752
01:53:04,354 --> 01:53:07,819
we we ended up with
their example,

2753
01:53:07,819 --> 01:53:10,475
one of the 72 acre parcel

2754
01:53:10,475 --> 01:53:12,650
as being the cutoff

2755
01:53:12,650 --> 01:53:14,704
or maybe an 80
acre parcel.

2756
01:53:14,704 --> 01:53:17,300
But that only
comprises 24% of

2757
01:53:17,300 --> 01:53:20,915
the land in that area.

2758
01:53:20,915 --> 01:53:23,060
So what I'm getting
at there is

2759
01:53:23,060 --> 01:53:25,715
that we're, we're, we're,

2760
01:53:25,715 --> 01:53:30,155
we're letting a 24%
of the land rat

2761
01:53:30,155 --> 01:53:32,090
be the determinant of what

2762
01:53:32,090 --> 01:53:34,984
becomes an acceptable
farm size there.

2763
01:53:34,984 --> 01:53:36,829
Rather than
looking at those

2764
01:53:36,829 --> 01:53:38,419
larger farms
that are really

2765
01:53:38,419 --> 01:53:42,690
the where the bulk
of the land basis.

2766
01:53:42,850 --> 01:53:45,244
And that's what I mean.
We're, we're, we're,

2767
01:53:45,244 --> 01:53:46,369
we're going to
a lower common

2768
01:53:46,369 --> 01:53:48,124
denominator each time.

2769
01:53:48,124 --> 01:53:52,130
I think that's a
conceptual dilemma on how

2770
01:53:52,130 --> 01:53:53,675
you visualize the

2771
01:53:53,675 --> 01:53:55,849
applying a
uniform standard.

2772
01:53:55,849 --> 01:53:57,500
Whether it's
double the number

2773
01:53:57,500 --> 01:53:59,300
of parcels you're
looking at or two,

2774
01:53:59,300 --> 01:54:01,775
total acreage is
Anthony has proposed.

2775
01:54:01,775 --> 01:54:04,040
There is another point
that I'd like to

2776
01:54:04,040 --> 01:54:09,169
bring up that that

2777
01:54:09,169 --> 01:54:09,739
came up in

2778
01:54:09,739 --> 01:54:12,350
some discussions
with the committee

2779
01:54:12,350 --> 01:54:15,050
and also with
some discussions

2780
01:54:15,050 --> 01:54:17,180
I've had with
extension agents.

2781
01:54:17,180 --> 01:54:19,190
I don't know how

2782
01:54:19,190 --> 01:54:20,209
this would affect
your thinking,

2783
01:54:20,209 --> 01:54:21,905
but it is a
concern that is

2784
01:54:21,905 --> 01:54:23,479
those examples
that I showed

2785
01:54:23,479 --> 01:54:25,864
in class limits
County e.g.

2786
01:54:25,864 --> 01:54:27,904
are pretty small parcels

2787
01:54:27,904 --> 01:54:29,464
in that particular area

2788
01:54:29,464 --> 01:54:31,160
because that area
that area is

2789
01:54:31,160 --> 01:54:33,289
characterized basically
by small parcels,

2790
01:54:33,289 --> 01:54:35,870
lot of rural
residential use

2791
01:54:35,870 --> 01:54:37,444
around there and so forth.

2792
01:54:37,444 --> 01:54:41,795
Anyway, the concern
that came up was that

2793
01:54:41,795 --> 01:54:45,020
the horticulture
industry and

2794
01:54:45,020 --> 01:54:48,919
intensive agriculture,
berries or whatever.

2795
01:54:48,919 --> 01:54:50,630
With a type of agriculture

2796
01:54:50,630 --> 01:54:53,224
that requires
somebody there.

2797
01:54:53,224 --> 01:54:56,494
The land monitoring
what's going on.

2798
01:54:56,494 --> 01:54:58,759
Very high investment has

2799
01:54:58,759 --> 01:55:00,679
a great deal of concern
about theft and

2800
01:55:00,679 --> 01:55:04,469
vandalism occurring
on the parcel

2801
01:55:06,610 --> 01:55:11,420
to if if the standard e.g.

2802
01:55:11,420 --> 01:55:14,749
were adopted it
in for Klockner

2803
01:55:14,749 --> 01:55:16,429
most commonly
that that would

2804
01:55:16,429 --> 01:55:18,850
be high value of that
particular area.

2805
01:55:18,850 --> 01:55:21,605
The standard,
we're $80,000

2806
01:55:21,605 --> 01:55:26,180
with the test to

2807
01:55:26,180 --> 01:55:27,979
show two years
production before

2808
01:55:27,979 --> 01:55:30,395
you can apply for
the building permit.

2809
01:55:30,395 --> 01:55:33,214
The concern that was
expressed to me was

2810
01:55:33,214 --> 01:55:36,200
that this would freeze

2811
01:55:36,200 --> 01:55:39,080
the growth of the
horticultural industry

2812
01:55:39,080 --> 01:55:44,089
and the intensive
agriculture represented

2813
01:55:44,089 --> 01:55:48,095
by berries and others
that have to be

2814
01:55:48,095 --> 01:55:49,639
on the land in terms of

2815
01:55:49,639 --> 01:55:50,674
management and

2816
01:55:50,674 --> 01:55:53,160
monitoring what's
going on there.

2817
01:55:54,220 --> 01:55:57,619
So I just wanted to
bring that concern up.

2818
01:55:57,619 --> 01:56:00,454
The idea was that

2819
01:56:00,454 --> 01:56:03,350
those parcels a noise
we didn't few thousand

2820
01:56:03,350 --> 01:56:04,745
friends testimony and

2821
01:56:04,745 --> 01:56:06,260
their assumption is that

2822
01:56:06,260 --> 01:56:08,510
those parcels would
be going from more

2823
01:56:08,510 --> 01:56:09,889
productive to
less productive

2824
01:56:09,889 --> 01:56:11,450
with the home site on it.

2825
01:56:11,450 --> 01:56:13,549
And I think you need

2826
01:56:13,549 --> 01:56:14,930
to think about

2827
01:56:14,930 --> 01:56:16,760
that assumption
because in fact,

2828
01:56:16,760 --> 01:56:19,384
there are many examples

2829
01:56:19,384 --> 01:56:21,169
up there where it's
gone the other

2830
01:56:21,169 --> 01:56:25,565
way from very
poorly used land to

2831
01:56:25,565 --> 01:56:28,430
intensively managed in

2832
01:56:28,430 --> 01:56:30,979
terms of high-value crops.

2833
01:56:30,979 --> 01:56:32,689
So that is a concern

2834
01:56:32,689 --> 01:56:33,380
there in terms of how

2835
01:56:33,380 --> 01:56:34,835
the tests would work out.

2836
01:56:34,835 --> 01:56:38,150
We achieved that or we
posed that problem by

2837
01:56:38,150 --> 01:56:39,920
eliminating high value

2838
01:56:39,920 --> 01:56:43,169
from the income
capability.

2839
01:56:43,510 --> 01:56:45,829
How would you solve
that problem if that

2840
01:56:45,829 --> 01:56:48,409
were shared that concern?

2841
01:56:48,409 --> 01:56:51,364
Well, what's on
the table now?

2842
01:56:51,364 --> 01:56:54,740
I guess the reasoning is

2843
01:56:54,740 --> 01:56:58,115
that by eliminating that
test from that area,

2844
01:56:58,115 --> 01:56:59,540
the only option there

2845
01:56:59,540 --> 01:57:00,860
to get the dwelling would

2846
01:57:00,860 --> 01:57:03,710
be three $8,000, right?

2847
01:57:03,710 --> 01:57:05,750
I didn't leave
just interrupting

2848
01:57:05,750 --> 01:57:07,459
the industrial giant
reminded me that

2849
01:57:07,459 --> 01:57:09,275
everybody has got
cars over at Ollie's.

2850
01:57:09,275 --> 01:57:11,359
He leaves at 06:00.

2851
01:57:11,359 --> 01:57:13,279
And so if you don't
have your keys,

2852
01:57:13,279 --> 01:57:18,169
your eye, he has my keys.

2853
01:57:18,169 --> 01:57:19,519
I don't have mine.

2854
01:57:19,519 --> 01:57:21,179
Mine.

2855
01:57:21,190 --> 01:57:22,700
Mine.

2856
01:57:22,700 --> 01:57:24,469
And maybe take a quick
break and go get

2857
01:57:24,469 --> 01:57:27,095
our keys and then
come back here.

2858
01:57:27,095 --> 01:57:30,029
Otherwise, we're
here forever

2859
01:57:33,520 --> 01:57:35,720
to send somebody over to

2860
01:57:35,720 --> 01:57:37,170
get all the kings or can

2861
01:57:37,170 --> 01:57:41,060
somebody get all the keys?

2862
01:57:41,060 --> 01:57:42,740
I mean, there tampa there

2863
01:57:42,740 --> 01:57:44,780
that I can just
give you so many Gs

2864
01:57:44,780 --> 01:57:49,339
because we don't
want somebody.

2865
01:57:49,339 --> 01:57:51,680
Mitch, can we give you $6?

2866
01:57:51,680 --> 01:57:53,130
Okay.

2867
01:57:53,620 --> 01:57:56,120
You can pay.

2868
01:57:56,120 --> 01:57:58,400
Good idea in
dictionary knows

2869
01:57:58,400 --> 01:58:05,540
what the attorneys are

2870
01:58:05,540 --> 01:58:07,800
you with Mike and
here's my ticket.

2871
01:58:11,560 --> 01:58:13,610
I don't want to
lose this point

2872
01:58:13,610 --> 01:58:14,975
him some parking
lot, right?

2873
01:58:14,975 --> 01:58:16,819
I don't want to lose
that point Going

2874
01:58:16,819 --> 01:58:18,545
right to Hector's issue.

2875
01:58:18,545 --> 01:58:21,214
There's an ally
didn't take

2876
01:58:21,214 --> 01:58:22,819
in Blair's concerns.

2877
01:58:22,819 --> 01:58:26,099
On the other hand,
if you take two out,

2878
01:58:26,690 --> 01:58:29,585
if you eliminate
two pi value,

2879
01:58:29,585 --> 01:58:31,520
you eliminate that
theoretical option

2880
01:58:31,520 --> 01:58:33,529
at least going
into higher value,

2881
01:58:33,529 --> 01:58:34,879
the dwelling unit
right now, I mean,

2882
01:58:34,879 --> 01:58:35,090
I don't know

2883
01:58:35,090 --> 01:58:35,360
whether

2884
01:58:35,360 --> 01:58:45,289
it's I

2885
01:58:45,289 --> 01:58:48,559
think it's important
to be very happy

2886
01:58:48,559 --> 01:58:53,659
if I'd like to ask a
quick question of cliff,

2887
01:58:53,659 --> 01:58:55,190
a Carnegie Cliff,

2888
01:58:55,190 --> 01:58:56,600
you're the only farmer
left in the room other

2889
01:58:56,600 --> 01:58:59,209
than or the table

2890
01:58:59,209 --> 01:59:01,559
and the acceptance
of the commission.

2891
01:59:01,780 --> 01:59:04,070
This issue keeps getting

2892
01:59:04,070 --> 01:59:06,005
raised by the
horticultural.

2893
01:59:06,005 --> 01:59:08,089
And Jim P is just
mentioned that,

2894
01:59:08,089 --> 01:59:09,110
that the
horticultural people

2895
01:59:09,110 --> 01:59:10,339
said it would
be the death of

2896
01:59:10,339 --> 01:59:12,229
the horticultural
industry if

2897
01:59:12,229 --> 01:59:13,985
they couldn't live
on their place.

2898
01:59:13,985 --> 01:59:17,039
Now you grow strawberries.

2899
01:59:17,650 --> 01:59:19,759
Well, I suppose
it's everything

2900
01:59:19,759 --> 01:59:20,809
that falls into
horticulture.

2901
01:59:20,809 --> 01:59:27,830
So it'd be
berries, cherries.

2902
01:59:27,830 --> 01:59:32,315
Yeah. I mean, you
had come up here.

2903
01:59:32,315 --> 01:59:34,400
I've contended
for a long time,

2904
01:59:34,400 --> 01:59:35,569
but that's baloney, but

2905
01:59:35,569 --> 01:59:37,920
I'd like to hear
from somebody else.

2906
01:59:40,870 --> 01:59:44,239
I'm Cliff Carnegie
For the record.

2907
01:59:44,239 --> 01:59:46,860
Years ago.