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The Portland
State University

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oral history project

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focuses on Oregon's

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land-use planning program.

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It provides the
opportunity for

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key participants
to recount

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stories and
anecdotes regarding

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how this unique
program was developed,

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implemented, and
evolved over it's

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more than 4.5 decades
in existence.

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It is October 23rd, 2019.

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My name is Michael Brown.

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I'm a former member
of the Department of

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land conservation
and development.

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Before that, a
staff member with

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the Douglas County,

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oregon Planning
Department,

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I will be interviewing
Kurt Schneider,

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who was the concept

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County Planning Director
for many years.

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And Kurt work for
several other counties

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and also worked
for the city

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of sales planning
department.

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Welcome, Curt.

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And thanks to Bree.

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Thanks.

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Thank you for
being invited.

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Reason END. Let's start

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off with giving a brief
personal background

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about your settlement
enlightened Oregon.

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I was born almost 7.5
back Portland, oregon.

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And I grew up in a lot of

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Illinois neighborhood
which is

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southeast Portland.

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82nd avenue rapidly
went to grade school,

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high school, Madison
High School.

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Upon graduation, went
to Portland State,

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graduated there and 68.

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Spent two years in
the Peace Corps.

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West Africa, came back

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back and forth mistake and

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Urban Studies
Certificate then went to

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the University of Oregon

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in Urban and Regional
Planning Department.

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And from there,

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my first position was in

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Columbia County and
then on to clots.

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Okay. Okay.

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How long will you combine?

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One year.

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One year.

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Okay.

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And then how do you
transition to the class?

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What are they looking for?

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A planner, planning
director was

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interesting
because I really

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wasn't looking for a job,

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just happened to look

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and Sunday are going in.

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And here's
planning director

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for klutzy can say
did a bunch of

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research on it best

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he could at that time
with that cell phones.

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I myself, the Internet
the Internet.

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Internet for shared and

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learned that they
had interviewed

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several people
and at a number

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of planning directors in

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a short period of time.

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So do I really
want to do this?

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What you're what
you're 701975.

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Okay. And thought,

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hey, what have
we got diluted?

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Nurse I can say is no.

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Well, interestingly
enough by applied,

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but let's be interviewed.

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And then we got

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the whole County Board
of Commissioners and

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the whole planning
commission

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and board meeting room.

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Wow.

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With your interview.

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The interview
because there

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was no county manager,

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that kind of staff person

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at that particular time.

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And long behold,

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they ended it, ended
the interview.

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They wanted to know and
I can start I guess

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they weren't going
to check what kind

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of person I

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want to copy county
or whatever.

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I'm sure they did research

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prior to that sharing.

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But let's see, well,

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timed out here and
check with the family

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and I checked with
the local government,

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which was glad to
tell them Look,

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intergovernmental
council and tuck

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and folks there went

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back and well, yes.

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And so I commuted from
St. Helens to Astoria.

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Oh, wow.

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Her for three times a

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week or whatever or
wise for about a month.

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And so kind of officially,

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I was begin full-time

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sometime in September 75

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and went

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through the whole
all planning process

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with the statewide
planning goals

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in place, with clouds.

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Gani did the
inventory, did that.

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Right around the time
you took the position.

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This first 1414 goals

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were adopted by
the commission.

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And like me and Douglas
County at the time,

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were probably
trying to figure

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out what all this means.

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The coastal gold hadn't
been adopted yet.

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Correct.

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So nor will ever
agree way, correct?

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Yeah.

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Which wouldn't have
applied to you?

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Well, maybe yeah.

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Why do you even
Columbia County to

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that point of agreement?

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And I don't think so.

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They said of the
muscle a channel.

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I think I didn't include

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the end now get the Salem.

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Yes. Anyway, so you

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you basically started
your planning process.

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Trying to apply or

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apply with complied with

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the goals that you're
trying to well,

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actually, I started with

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Columbia County July
1st to 74. Okay.

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And right after that,

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the silvers ropes
outreach by

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the department of
that particular time

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occurred and one of

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those outreach
meetings was in class.

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Can I Northeast

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very small community,
probably 1500.

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So those presentation
there as

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well as so got a
lot of information.

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The goals, that
whole process,

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that kind of your
first introduction to

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the goals with that
meeting. Sound, sir?

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Um, he knew of
the adoptive goal

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of adaptive goals and

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application because
in grad school,

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the legislature,

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Tom a call and
Macpherson et al,

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right, put a program

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together is I
would call it,

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and ultimately a
legislature passed,

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a governor signed it,
created the departs.

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So you've got an

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understanding of
the framework.

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Uh, yes, ma'am.

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Alright.

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But plants can I

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might have been
your new deduction.

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Well, the staff
and who was

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going to try to
implement the program.

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And more, far more detail
of what the goal of

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a light glitter
that goals and

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they will expand
be expected.

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Yeah, local government.

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It was very good. That
was good outreach.

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And not just in Portland
or Astoria or EEG,

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the class, a small city?

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Yeah. I thought that
was very positive.

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Yeah. I remember at
the time I was with

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Douglas County and I

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remember leading
up to the goals.

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We had sessions and unpack

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community college with
staff coming down and

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talking about
what the goals

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should be and what
are the issues

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that are important
to our audience with

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respect to
planning, so on.

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And I think that
was leading up

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to the preparation
of the goals.

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And then of course, they

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ultimately got adopted.

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And that's when a
local planters had

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the kind of what's
an exception?

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That's where we're going

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with this. Yeah, though.

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Let's see, Senate
Bill 100 created or

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framework for land use

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planning across the state.

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Based on this legislation,

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the statewide planning
goals are drafted as

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an expression of
state policies

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interest in
local planning.

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Do you believe the
land conservation

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development
commission correctly

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addressed the
objectives of SB

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100 through the
creation of the State?

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900s, they went money go.

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Short. Answer is yes.

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Yes. They are
provided for in

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legislation and public
outreach in Oregon,

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like I just mentioned
regarding class,

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can I provide that
framework but solicited

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folks ideas on

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how best the goals
and guidelines

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that were to be
implemented.

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Which as we know,

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it was fun and games.

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And I'm referring to goals

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12, 14 because right.

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Vehicles can layer.

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What I thought was I

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think was the best
decision made

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was when when the
goals were out,

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there was a list.

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But they weren't listed

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in priority because
there wasn't any.

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But when it came
out from print,

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number 1 was citizen
involvement.

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And to me, that's
the key to

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the whole program
and still is.

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I mean, we have

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to reflect as a state
law here and you

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can't just take a
baseball bat swing at

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the state law when

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urea Citizens
Advisory Committee,

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all of that happened is we

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both but there is a lie

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and provide
education, et cetera.

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So it was done and I think

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done very well
in that kind of

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helped set the base
for the program and

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away having
people engaged?

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Yes.

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On any issue.

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I remember Douglas County,

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we set up multiple

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planning advisory
committees.

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In fact, to be honest,

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too many and I was

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citizen Involvement

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Coordinator for
the county.

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I was going meeting
night after night.

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Whichever share your
in-class up as well.

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But it really help
ground the program.

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I mean, we, a
lot of the folks

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out there became

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Planning
Commissioners later.

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Some of them became
activists in

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support of planning
in general,

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even when they
didn't agree

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with the county.
They yeah.

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We did have one that
took the county.

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Luba weren't finding to

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the chagrin of the board,

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but but it was

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all based on citizen
involvement and

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their understanding
and planning

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as we had survived.

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Citizen advisory
committees by area?

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Yes, they of
course, closet

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County probably
fits into rows.

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Bird metro.

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I'm glad we had 17
or sunset. Yeah.

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Yeah.

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It was while we
were all others.

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But we add oh gosh,

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always six to nine members

275
00:11:04,189 --> 00:11:05,899
on those community.

276
00:11:05,899 --> 00:11:08,180
And they would
be there week

277
00:11:08,180 --> 00:11:10,564
after week meeting
after meeting,

278
00:11:10,564 --> 00:11:13,969
and no holds barred,

279
00:11:13,969 --> 00:11:16,294
but it wasn't
something personal.

280
00:11:16,294 --> 00:11:17,929
I mean, yeah.

281
00:11:17,929 --> 00:11:21,530
People were engaged
and wanting to

282
00:11:21,530 --> 00:11:25,580
be informed and
think it through.

283
00:11:25,580 --> 00:11:27,890
We got resources.

284
00:11:27,890 --> 00:11:30,110
What was the old adage

285
00:11:30,110 --> 00:11:33,980
it something to the effect

286
00:11:33,980 --> 00:11:36,470
that if you don't
plan, you failed?

287
00:11:36,470 --> 00:11:38,210
When they heard AS yeah.

288
00:11:38,210 --> 00:11:38,900
Yeah.

289
00:11:38,900 --> 00:11:40,550
If you fail to plan,

290
00:11:40,550 --> 00:11:41,629
you plan to fail.

291
00:11:41,629 --> 00:11:43,234
Yeah, that's what it is.

292
00:11:43,234 --> 00:11:44,674
They got that.

293
00:11:44,674 --> 00:11:45,649
Yeah.

294
00:11:45,649 --> 00:11:47,030
I agree.

295
00:11:47,030 --> 00:11:48,289
We had folks become

296
00:11:48,289 --> 00:11:50,479
Planning Commission
members and

297
00:11:50,479 --> 00:11:52,460
one become a county
commissioner

298
00:11:52,460 --> 00:11:54,350
at least while
I was there.

299
00:11:54,350 --> 00:11:56,299
I don't know now.

300
00:11:56,299 --> 00:12:00,394
But yes.

301
00:12:00,394 --> 00:12:02,179
Yeah, no, it
really ends up

302
00:12:02,179 --> 00:12:04,189
being the basis for

303
00:12:04,189 --> 00:12:05,719
a lot of governmental
activity.

304
00:12:05,719 --> 00:12:09,049
The sine model I
was, yeah, yes.

305
00:12:09,160 --> 00:12:10,624
Yes.

306
00:12:10,624 --> 00:12:13,070
And so that was
a real key to,

307
00:12:13,070 --> 00:12:14,449
I think the
program success

308
00:12:14,449 --> 00:12:16,279
initially visitors
in a moment.

309
00:12:16,279 --> 00:12:20,330
Well, recollection
is correct.

310
00:12:20,330 --> 00:12:22,369
A lot of these came out of

311
00:12:22,369 --> 00:12:24,949
the predecessor to
the Oregon coast of

312
00:12:24,949 --> 00:12:27,034
conservation and
development commission,

313
00:12:27,034 --> 00:12:29,600
one of its form for
glucose because they got

314
00:12:29,600 --> 00:12:32,205
a lot of their
goals from there.

315
00:12:32,205 --> 00:12:33,454
Yeah, hello,
there had been

316
00:12:33,454 --> 00:12:35,659
some precursor to that.

317
00:12:35,659 --> 00:12:36,695
The bigger program.

318
00:12:36,695 --> 00:12:38,255
Yeah, I think that
really helped.

319
00:12:38,255 --> 00:12:39,874
Yeah. Yeah.

320
00:12:39,874 --> 00:12:41,690
You'll get a chance
you should look at

321
00:12:41,690 --> 00:12:43,580
Bob Bailey's
interview when you

322
00:12:43,580 --> 00:12:46,954
get on the website
as Bob went through

323
00:12:46,954 --> 00:12:49,580
and detailed a lot of how

324
00:12:49,580 --> 00:12:51,259
the coastal goals
gotten developed

325
00:12:51,259 --> 00:12:53,969
from OCC and DC work.

326
00:12:54,820 --> 00:12:57,470
In my capacity,
Douglas County,

327
00:12:57,470 --> 00:12:59,480
I was at many of
the OCC of the law.

328
00:12:59,480 --> 00:12:59,960
Yeah.

329
00:12:59,960 --> 00:13:04,160
I'm from thrown by
the ocean to Idaho.

330
00:13:04,160 --> 00:13:05,089
Okay.

331
00:13:05,089 --> 00:13:07,444
To give the
crater lake? Yes.

332
00:13:07,444 --> 00:13:11,629
Anyway, of the 19
statewide planning goals,

333
00:13:11,629 --> 00:13:13,249
which do you believe

334
00:13:13,249 --> 00:13:14,570
have been the most
important thing

335
00:13:14,570 --> 00:13:16,010
in accomplishing
the objectives

336
00:13:16,010 --> 00:13:17,810
of the state land
use programs.

337
00:13:17,810 --> 00:13:19,369
And which ones do you feel

338
00:13:19,369 --> 00:13:21,155
have been the
least important?

339
00:13:21,155 --> 00:13:27,770
Okay, I think goals 34
are talking in terms

340
00:13:27,770 --> 00:13:35,030
of significant
importance and success.

341
00:13:35,030 --> 00:13:41,029
And I base that on
the goals specified,

342
00:13:41,029 --> 00:13:44,675
specific standards,
Class 3,

343
00:13:44,675 --> 00:13:47,044
forest land or
for protecting ed

344
00:13:47,044 --> 00:13:50,689
for acting at him
forest lands exactly.

345
00:13:50,689 --> 00:13:55,504
And strict application
and enforce.

346
00:13:55,504 --> 00:13:58,610
Course. That's a 28.
So on that we'll talk

347
00:13:58,610 --> 00:14:01,775
about that a
little bit later.

348
00:14:01,775 --> 00:14:04,770
Urbanization.

349
00:14:08,230 --> 00:14:12,395
Well, probably big, huge

350
00:14:12,395 --> 00:14:16,400
part of that was
setting standards.

351
00:14:16,400 --> 00:14:18,994
How much growth can
be accommodating?

352
00:14:18,994 --> 00:14:21,289
Gotta put some
density with that.

353
00:14:21,289 --> 00:14:23,960
And given that there's

354
00:14:23,960 --> 00:14:27,244
a line there and
desired boundary?

355
00:14:27,244 --> 00:14:29,059
Yeah. Yeah.

356
00:14:29,059 --> 00:14:31,099
And postal sure.

357
00:14:31,099 --> 00:14:33,020
Lands, goal,

358
00:14:33,020 --> 00:14:34,669
beaches and doing skull.

359
00:14:34,669 --> 00:14:36,289
And again, there are

360
00:14:36,289 --> 00:14:38,840
specific landscapes

361
00:14:38,840 --> 00:14:41,119
and resources
there to preserve.

362
00:14:41,119 --> 00:14:43,354
And as an example,

363
00:14:43,354 --> 00:14:44,630
prohibitions of

364
00:14:44,630 --> 00:14:46,580
development in some
of those areas,

365
00:14:46,580 --> 00:14:50,399
like active do areas and

366
00:14:51,790 --> 00:14:56,149
just good stuff and
measuring erosion rates

367
00:14:56,149 --> 00:14:57,950
and alerting people to

368
00:14:57,950 --> 00:14:59,030
the fact that if you want

369
00:14:59,030 --> 00:15:00,110
to build on that cliff,

370
00:15:00,110 --> 00:15:01,940
you may not be or
five years from now.

371
00:15:01,940 --> 00:15:02,959
Yeah, because
it's eroding.

372
00:15:02,959 --> 00:15:03,785
Yeah.

373
00:15:03,785 --> 00:15:09,124
So those five I think big.

374
00:15:09,124 --> 00:15:10,775
Now this county planner,

375
00:15:10,775 --> 00:15:14,240
urban folks may look
at, you know, sure.

376
00:15:14,240 --> 00:15:17,539
Public facilities
and transportation

377
00:15:17,539 --> 00:15:20,540
and our big housing
now housing

378
00:15:20,540 --> 00:15:23,269
is yes you so they stem

379
00:15:23,269 --> 00:15:26,885
for that maybe really
start to think

380
00:15:26,885 --> 00:15:31,235
and came up with
interestingly,

381
00:15:31,235 --> 00:15:33,500
recreation lands.

382
00:15:33,500 --> 00:15:36,380
And this probably
comes more

383
00:15:36,380 --> 00:15:41,660
from working for
the city of Salem.

384
00:15:41,660 --> 00:15:43,924
And then in retirement,

385
00:15:43,924 --> 00:15:45,919
living in the
St. John's Area,

386
00:15:45,919 --> 00:15:48,654
Portland for a
bunch of years in

387
00:15:48,654 --> 00:15:51,650
B St. John's neighborhood

388
00:15:51,650 --> 00:15:53,090
community and a cathedral

389
00:15:53,090 --> 00:15:55,159
Park neighborhood
community and working

390
00:15:55,159 --> 00:16:00,179
on North Pole and
Greenway Trail,

391
00:16:00,280 --> 00:16:03,364
which was a private
non-profit,

392
00:16:03,364 --> 00:16:05,300
but an input to

393
00:16:05,300 --> 00:16:08,450
the City of Portland
on revising

394
00:16:08,450 --> 00:16:10,835
their Willamette
River Greenway

395
00:16:10,835 --> 00:16:16,384
element that also work.

396
00:16:16,384 --> 00:16:18,904
Before I move on.

397
00:16:18,904 --> 00:16:22,460
Current Portland
Project Revising,

398
00:16:22,460 --> 00:16:27,665
there are multiple
dwelling unit zone.

399
00:16:27,665 --> 00:16:32,015
That's where I think
recreational land.

400
00:16:32,015 --> 00:16:35,119
Lacked when

401
00:16:35,119 --> 00:16:39,659
develop multifamily
development occur.

402
00:16:39,850 --> 00:16:43,910
As a kid, I would
have gone crazy.

403
00:16:43,910 --> 00:16:45,080
Great.

404
00:16:45,080 --> 00:16:46,429
I got a five foot setback

405
00:16:46,429 --> 00:16:47,584
next to my apartment.

406
00:16:47,584 --> 00:16:49,009
Boy, what can I shouldn't

407
00:16:49,009 --> 00:16:51,919
there some kind of area,

408
00:16:51,919 --> 00:16:52,999
anyone else on
the community?

409
00:16:52,999 --> 00:16:56,689
It was said, Hey,

410
00:16:56,689 --> 00:16:59,299
we need some
decent sized areas

411
00:16:59,299 --> 00:17:01,460
and these developments
of the kids can build

412
00:17:01,460 --> 00:17:03,739
tree forwards
or thoughts or

413
00:17:03,739 --> 00:17:07,145
whatever that it can
range around it.

414
00:17:07,145 --> 00:17:10,789
And that's a tough
nut to crack.

415
00:17:10,789 --> 00:17:14,090
The require person
age and provide

416
00:17:14,090 --> 00:17:16,789
their person B or can you

417
00:17:16,789 --> 00:17:21,154
somehow get one between
a, B, C, and D?

418
00:17:21,154 --> 00:17:24,079
So I know it's not easy.

419
00:17:24,079 --> 00:17:25,880
Struggling. Yeah.

420
00:17:25,880 --> 00:17:28,070
So then it backs up.

421
00:17:28,070 --> 00:17:32,884
How does how do the
goals pertain to that?

422
00:17:32,884 --> 00:17:34,654
I don't have an
answer. Sorry.

423
00:17:34,654 --> 00:17:38,284
Yeah. No. I I I know
even in the department,

424
00:17:38,284 --> 00:17:40,685
we wrestle with
recreation.

425
00:17:40,685 --> 00:17:42,739
When I came here. And I

426
00:17:42,739 --> 00:17:44,179
remember in
Douglas County,

427
00:17:44,179 --> 00:17:45,919
we had I remember

428
00:17:45,919 --> 00:17:47,405
one subdivision
on the culture.

429
00:17:47,405 --> 00:17:49,115
We had somebody
that was real

430
00:17:49,115 --> 00:17:51,559
adamant to try to

431
00:17:51,559 --> 00:17:53,269
develop a subdivision
right out,

432
00:17:53,269 --> 00:17:55,940
reads port and realizing

433
00:17:55,940 --> 00:17:57,499
eventually it
would be and reads

434
00:17:57,499 --> 00:17:58,790
for it because I
think it was in

435
00:17:58,790 --> 00:18:00,650
the UVB or would
it be it will

436
00:18:00,650 --> 00:18:05,029
be knowing where my
MBA will be, how huge.

437
00:18:05,029 --> 00:18:07,700
Yeah, we got land use
cases on that going.

438
00:18:07,700 --> 00:18:09,529
So we actually got

439
00:18:09,529 --> 00:18:10,910
the developer
to put a park

440
00:18:10,910 --> 00:18:13,399
in because I forgot

441
00:18:13,399 --> 00:18:14,689
how many lots he

442
00:18:14,689 --> 00:18:17,180
didn't crea because
of a yellow.

443
00:18:17,180 --> 00:18:19,249
Part of it had to
do with access.

444
00:18:19,249 --> 00:18:20,749
He didn't have great use

445
00:18:20,749 --> 00:18:21,889
of that particular land.

446
00:18:21,889 --> 00:18:23,374
He had a lot of
development,

447
00:18:23,374 --> 00:18:25,534
a planet around this area.

448
00:18:25,534 --> 00:18:26,539
And I think there probably

449
00:18:26,539 --> 00:18:27,770
was a drainage issue

450
00:18:27,770 --> 00:18:29,299
and the thing so he
was having trouble

451
00:18:29,299 --> 00:18:32,209
getting direct
adequate access

452
00:18:32,209 --> 00:18:33,319
to these other lots in

453
00:18:33,319 --> 00:18:34,490
the back and we
said why don't

454
00:18:34,490 --> 00:18:36,500
you make that
part do you have

455
00:18:36,500 --> 00:18:38,630
one at one access to

456
00:18:38,630 --> 00:18:41,029
the area and then

457
00:18:41,029 --> 00:18:43,520
keeping the other
development around.

458
00:18:43,520 --> 00:18:45,650
And he and he actually
agree and did

459
00:18:45,650 --> 00:18:48,125
it saved him and
bundling money,

460
00:18:48,125 --> 00:18:50,120
not having to
try and develop.

461
00:18:50,120 --> 00:18:51,934
Are you retaining wall?

462
00:18:51,934 --> 00:18:53,929
Exactly the drain each
and figuring out.

463
00:18:53,929 --> 00:18:55,640
Yeah. So there's
advantages

464
00:18:55,640 --> 00:18:58,055
testing rates part
where it rains.

465
00:18:58,055 --> 00:18:58,909
Yeah. Yeah.

466
00:18:58,909 --> 00:19:01,280
Just a little
bit that anyway,

467
00:19:01,280 --> 00:19:03,259
but it was the right it

468
00:19:03,259 --> 00:19:05,450
was very hard to
get people to come

469
00:19:05,450 --> 00:19:09,154
in and look at recreation
as something that

470
00:19:09,154 --> 00:19:10,400
is equal to

471
00:19:10,400 --> 00:19:11,689
all the other things
they're trying to

472
00:19:11,689 --> 00:19:14,059
accomplish in an area.

473
00:19:14,059 --> 00:19:16,354
So and we tried
to work with

474
00:19:16,354 --> 00:19:20,359
with department of Parks

475
00:19:20,359 --> 00:19:22,475
and Recreation
at the time.

476
00:19:22,475 --> 00:19:23,780
And they were real active

477
00:19:23,780 --> 00:19:25,070
early in the
program to try.

478
00:19:25,070 --> 00:19:26,885
They've kinda exact

479
00:19:26,885 --> 00:19:28,580
certain types
of percentages

480
00:19:28,580 --> 00:19:30,260
of what they need and

481
00:19:30,260 --> 00:19:32,090
plans to show they're
going to do that.

482
00:19:32,090 --> 00:19:33,440
But whether how they got

483
00:19:33,440 --> 00:19:35,675
implemented was
always a weak spot.

484
00:19:35,675 --> 00:19:39,679
So while the other
one, ironically,

485
00:19:39,679 --> 00:19:41,720
I put in terms of

486
00:19:41,720 --> 00:19:44,824
least important
urbanization,

487
00:19:44,824 --> 00:19:46,579
not from the standpoint of

488
00:19:46,579 --> 00:19:48,230
an urban growth boundary.

489
00:19:48,230 --> 00:19:51,680
But I suppose
Damascus is probably

490
00:19:51,680 --> 00:19:54,380
the best example where

491
00:19:54,380 --> 00:19:57,499
you have a need,
expressed need.

492
00:19:57,499 --> 00:20:01,879
And in that
case, Old City.

493
00:20:01,879 --> 00:20:06,799
Yes. We had the yeas
and Nate still going.

494
00:20:06,799 --> 00:20:07,489
All right.

495
00:20:07,489 --> 00:20:11,165
But how do you
fund create that?

496
00:20:11,165 --> 00:20:12,994
The need for sung

497
00:20:12,994 --> 00:20:16,594
get Mandy's to
state up front

498
00:20:16,594 --> 00:20:21,230
with each building permit

499
00:20:21,230 --> 00:20:23,930
pay helping pay back
that or whatever.

500
00:20:23,930 --> 00:20:27,214
I don't I don't know
the tool, but yeah.

501
00:20:27,214 --> 00:20:29,360
I think that's

502
00:20:29,360 --> 00:20:32,360
a lost opportunity
with goal setting.

503
00:20:32,360 --> 00:20:35,360
As far as the fact
that especially with

504
00:20:35,360 --> 00:20:37,864
Cascadia Subduction
Zone now yeah.

505
00:20:37,864 --> 00:20:41,150
Kind of hovering
over as I found out

506
00:20:41,150 --> 00:20:45,559
that our last acknowledge
plan was in 1986,

507
00:20:45,559 --> 00:20:48,020
which was the year
the geologist

508
00:20:48,020 --> 00:20:49,639
discovered Cascadia.

509
00:20:49,639 --> 00:20:52,759
And so go seven never
really addressed maybe

510
00:20:52,759 --> 00:20:54,380
the biggest issue

511
00:20:54,380 --> 00:20:56,645
that's confronting
Western Oregon.

512
00:20:56,645 --> 00:20:58,070
They're going down again,

513
00:20:58,070 --> 00:21:00,395
ocean resources was there.

514
00:21:00,395 --> 00:21:01,220
Yes.

515
00:21:01,220 --> 00:21:03,920
But the point is still,

516
00:21:03,920 --> 00:21:05,689
if you didn't
figure it out

517
00:21:05,689 --> 00:21:09,349
until 86 or
whatever, Right?

518
00:21:09,349 --> 00:21:09,979
Yeah.

519
00:21:09,979 --> 00:21:11,269
There are a lot of yeah,

520
00:21:11,269 --> 00:21:14,189
they're already
pretty much done.

521
00:21:15,310 --> 00:21:18,560
As you look back over
the last 40 years,

522
00:21:18,560 --> 00:21:20,570
which are the state's
natural resources.

523
00:21:20,570 --> 00:21:22,594
Do you believe the
state planning program

524
00:21:22,594 --> 00:21:24,109
has been the most
successful in

525
00:21:24,109 --> 00:21:31,019
protecting found
on forest lands.

526
00:21:33,760 --> 00:21:36,334
Also think that a

527
00:21:36,334 --> 00:21:39,920
greater emphasis
and what ordered

528
00:21:39,920 --> 00:21:47,029
funding a transit plans
and systems design.

529
00:21:47,029 --> 00:21:52,024
Huge. And I think
back in I think yeah.

530
00:21:52,024 --> 00:21:55,520
Well, I wouldn't
have worked

531
00:21:55,520 --> 00:21:59,119
in architecture or
on the human scale

532
00:21:59,119 --> 00:22:01,970
back then because
that important part

533
00:22:01,970 --> 00:22:05,960
was preserving Ag
and forest land,

534
00:22:05,960 --> 00:22:08,150
right, crane urban areas.

535
00:22:08,150 --> 00:22:09,559
But if I work now,

536
00:22:09,559 --> 00:22:11,494
that's what I
would want to do,

537
00:22:11,494 --> 00:22:13,909
is work on the detail,

538
00:22:13,909 --> 00:22:18,620
the the personal
aspects of space.

539
00:22:18,620 --> 00:22:22,080
But back to the
transportation thing.

540
00:22:24,220 --> 00:22:27,589
Exclusive. Lanes.

541
00:22:27,589 --> 00:22:30,529
Don't get buses piled in

542
00:22:30,529 --> 00:22:34,560
trying to get back
out into traffic.

543
00:22:35,560 --> 00:22:42,034
And how is that goals
deal with that?

544
00:22:42,034 --> 00:22:43,580
I'm not sure. I mean,

545
00:22:43,580 --> 00:22:45,410
you got the department
of transportation,

546
00:22:45,410 --> 00:22:46,865
but they seem to be

547
00:22:46,865 --> 00:22:49,009
to me my impression again,

548
00:22:49,009 --> 00:22:51,919
more concrete and rail,

549
00:22:51,919 --> 00:22:54,125
not not so much

550
00:22:54,125 --> 00:22:56,284
the system you
have say, yeah.

551
00:22:56,284 --> 00:22:59,610
So detail on the system

552
00:23:01,210 --> 00:23:04,250
now has been one
of my pet peeves

553
00:23:04,250 --> 00:23:07,445
is plans out to be a
100 years, not 20.

554
00:23:07,445 --> 00:23:08,479
Yeah.

555
00:23:08,479 --> 00:23:11,000
Hey, based on this,

556
00:23:11,000 --> 00:23:13,250
I've probably gone
through three plans.

557
00:23:13,250 --> 00:23:15,779
The fact that
still out there.

558
00:23:16,390 --> 00:23:22,220
I mean, I I realize
we when we were doing

559
00:23:22,220 --> 00:23:24,394
our plan and 75 that

560
00:23:24,394 --> 00:23:28,309
Cascadia Subduction
earthquake wasn't there,

561
00:23:28,309 --> 00:23:30,440
weren't talking
about climate change

562
00:23:30,440 --> 00:23:31,864
particularly, right?

563
00:23:31,864 --> 00:23:35,359
Right. But no matter

564
00:23:35,359 --> 00:23:37,954
what plan you got
assumptions and you

565
00:23:37,954 --> 00:23:39,709
review those assumptions

566
00:23:39,709 --> 00:23:40,760
that are regular time

567
00:23:40,760 --> 00:23:44,089
but trying to
focus on Do you

568
00:23:44,089 --> 00:23:49,009
want to Hillsboro
to emerge

569
00:23:49,009 --> 00:23:54,904
with the Glendale
or or yeah.

570
00:23:54,904 --> 00:23:57,035
You're almost looking at

571
00:23:57,035 --> 00:23:59,450
planning not only a
100 year but a longer

572
00:23:59,450 --> 00:24:02,630
range and the sense
of anticipating where

573
00:24:02,630 --> 00:24:06,469
it should go exactly
and triggers,

574
00:24:06,469 --> 00:24:08,360
for example, down
Little Lamb at Valley,

575
00:24:08,360 --> 00:24:09,499
I forgot there talking to

576
00:24:09,499 --> 00:24:11,240
projections of how
many people will

577
00:24:11,240 --> 00:24:12,919
ultimately be in Oregon

578
00:24:12,919 --> 00:24:14,974
within the next decade,

579
00:24:14,974 --> 00:24:17,089
will be in the
multi-millions

580
00:24:17,089 --> 00:24:18,860
more than what
they've got now,

581
00:24:18,860 --> 00:24:21,365
we're still relatively
a small state

582
00:24:21,365 --> 00:24:27,004
and fairly comfortable
in the sense of

583
00:24:27,004 --> 00:24:29,719
where population
is dispersed

584
00:24:29,719 --> 00:24:31,970
enough that you
don't get the sense

585
00:24:31,970 --> 00:24:37,204
that we're an urban or
an urbanizing state.

586
00:24:37,204 --> 00:24:39,424
We are slowly.

587
00:24:39,424 --> 00:24:41,780
So you're talking
about trying to do

588
00:24:41,780 --> 00:24:44,209
long range maybe
Portland to

589
00:24:44,209 --> 00:24:45,709
Eugene core doors and

590
00:24:45,709 --> 00:24:48,455
things in focusing
on I mean,

591
00:24:48,455 --> 00:24:50,570
say I'm going to the
suburban Portland.

592
00:24:50,570 --> 00:24:51,709
Yeah, you gotta do

593
00:24:51,709 --> 00:24:53,660
is look at the
housing prices.

594
00:24:53,660 --> 00:24:54,740
You can tell it's starting

595
00:24:54,740 --> 00:24:57,604
to Biola and try driving?

596
00:24:57,604 --> 00:24:59,914
Yeah. Either
way? Yeah. Fmn.

597
00:24:59,914 --> 00:25:01,055
Most of the day.

598
00:25:01,055 --> 00:25:03,965
Wilson though? Yes.

599
00:25:03,965 --> 00:25:05,464
Yes. Yes.

600
00:25:05,464 --> 00:25:06,110
No.

601
00:25:06,110 --> 00:25:06,935
And upset.

602
00:25:06,935 --> 00:25:11,120
I mean, you think

603
00:25:11,120 --> 00:25:13,519
if it's say

604
00:25:13,519 --> 00:25:16,129
school graduate or
whatever course,

605
00:25:16,129 --> 00:25:20,100
we would look at maybe
the English system.

606
00:25:20,230 --> 00:25:25,160
Grocers and Green
Belt in-between.

607
00:25:25,160 --> 00:25:29,465
Wagon forest lands
do help do that.

608
00:25:29,465 --> 00:25:32,689
We call that de
facto or whatever.

609
00:25:32,689 --> 00:25:36,155
Yeah, I think that's it.

610
00:25:36,155 --> 00:25:40,955
That's what had
been designated.

611
00:25:40,955 --> 00:25:45,244
And don't don't put

612
00:25:45,244 --> 00:25:48,660
me as the farmer
and the position.

613
00:25:48,910 --> 00:25:54,469
Well, I live long enough.

614
00:25:54,469 --> 00:25:57,260
This will become
rural lands or

615
00:25:57,260 --> 00:26:01,264
urban lands and
pits me against

616
00:26:01,264 --> 00:26:05,674
whatever our
designated concentrate

617
00:26:05,674 --> 00:26:10,259
fun metro or say lumber.

618
00:26:10,390 --> 00:26:13,325
Now it's probably too
late you go Portland,

619
00:26:13,325 --> 00:26:15,140
save them and
keep away from

620
00:26:15,140 --> 00:26:17,210
Eugene Cornell's
Albany or something.

621
00:26:17,210 --> 00:26:18,890
But yeah, I think

622
00:26:18,890 --> 00:26:20,869
the boundaries are
holding reasonably well.

623
00:26:20,869 --> 00:26:23,030
You would burn,
certainly growing.

624
00:26:23,030 --> 00:26:25,400
You can see good AG,

625
00:26:25,400 --> 00:26:27,620
land converted the
apartments or something,

626
00:26:27,620 --> 00:26:31,055
but maybe it's back to
transportation again.

627
00:26:31,055 --> 00:26:32,390
Well, transferred out.

628
00:26:32,390 --> 00:26:35,644
Certainly critical
to I know everything

629
00:26:35,644 --> 00:26:36,049
against

630
00:26:36,049 --> 00:26:39,230
the Oregon Department
of Transportation has

631
00:26:39,230 --> 00:26:42,290
addressed the
rail aspect from

632
00:26:42,290 --> 00:26:46,369
AND gene I'd say
be addressed

633
00:26:46,369 --> 00:26:51,200
in the same route and
Rabia little upgrade.

634
00:26:51,200 --> 00:26:53,179
And what are you
going to say?

635
00:26:53,179 --> 00:26:56,045
Ten minutes.
Come on. Yeah.

636
00:26:56,045 --> 00:26:57,785
Sorry.

637
00:26:57,785 --> 00:27:00,859
Lots of a Oregon
Transportation Commission,

638
00:27:00,859 --> 00:27:01,474
etc.

639
00:27:01,474 --> 00:27:03,420
You're not the
first person.

640
00:27:03,420 --> 00:27:05,585
I think.

641
00:27:05,585 --> 00:27:09,620
Sorry, Mike. Are there

642
00:27:09,620 --> 00:27:10,939
any land use policy

643
00:27:10,939 --> 00:27:12,289
subjects or
topics that are

644
00:27:12,289 --> 00:27:14,870
missing from
comprehensive plans that

645
00:27:14,870 --> 00:27:16,189
LCD through the goals

646
00:27:16,189 --> 00:27:18,229
should require local
governments address.

647
00:27:18,229 --> 00:27:20,209
And you kind
of mentioned a

648
00:27:20,209 --> 00:27:24,629
few already. In
the sense of.

649
00:27:25,030 --> 00:27:29,195
People in space and
maybe looking at, it.

650
00:27:29,195 --> 00:27:31,130
Seemed like the
program started

651
00:27:31,130 --> 00:27:32,449
looking at protecting

652
00:27:32,449 --> 00:27:33,995
resource lambs and then

653
00:27:33,995 --> 00:27:37,069
UV bees and everything's
emanated from there.

654
00:27:37,069 --> 00:27:39,559
And I get the sense from

655
00:27:39,559 --> 00:27:41,644
initial comment that you

656
00:27:41,644 --> 00:27:42,829
might have approached

657
00:27:42,829 --> 00:27:43,969
it slightly differently,

658
00:27:43,969 --> 00:27:47,750
but it still doesn't,

659
00:27:47,750 --> 00:27:49,639
you know, the
frameworks there.

660
00:27:49,639 --> 00:27:51,860
And it's fairly
sound and it's

661
00:27:51,860 --> 00:27:55,069
been successful for you.

662
00:27:55,069 --> 00:27:56,959
I know number 5, the back

663
00:27:56,959 --> 00:27:59,435
half of number
5, question 5.

664
00:27:59,435 --> 00:28:01,174
I thought I got
through it.

665
00:28:01,174 --> 00:28:03,599
Yeah, that happens.

666
00:28:06,190 --> 00:28:08,779
Protection of foreign
and forest lands.

667
00:28:08,779 --> 00:28:10,294
And then the
other than me,

668
00:28:10,294 --> 00:28:12,439
yet just ending
this transition

669
00:28:12,439 --> 00:28:13,520
to a 100 viewpoint.

670
00:28:13,520 --> 00:28:14,240
That's why I said, yeah,

671
00:28:14,240 --> 00:28:16,769
the MLK Park
was the origin.

672
00:28:17,170 --> 00:28:21,000
Let's see. I'll go
on to number 6 here.

673
00:28:22,090 --> 00:28:23,990
We've kind of talked about

674
00:28:23,990 --> 00:28:25,805
this a little bit already.

675
00:28:25,805 --> 00:28:29,900
In 1974, L CDC and
DLC the undertook

676
00:28:29,900 --> 00:28:31,700
an unprecedented
public outreach

677
00:28:31,700 --> 00:28:34,940
involved in adoption
of the first 14 goals.

678
00:28:34,940 --> 00:28:37,400
And as you indicated,
was it worth doing?

679
00:28:37,400 --> 00:28:39,785
I think you've already
mentioned it was.

680
00:28:39,785 --> 00:28:43,040
And how, if at all,

681
00:28:43,040 --> 00:28:44,899
did it affect your
thinking and b,

682
00:28:44,899 --> 00:28:48,650
so this is the citizen
moment question.

683
00:28:48,650 --> 00:28:51,559
And actually the
next one is as well.

684
00:28:51,559 --> 00:28:54,215
So we can kind of
combine nouns.

685
00:28:54,215 --> 00:28:56,915
Based on your comments,
your anatomy,

686
00:28:56,915 --> 00:28:58,189
supporters of them at

687
00:28:58,189 --> 00:29:00,664
Walmart and I think
it's critical.

688
00:29:00,664 --> 00:29:03,289
Yeah, absolutely.

689
00:29:03,289 --> 00:29:06,949
100%. I mean, we
adhere Express she had

690
00:29:06,949 --> 00:29:10,340
17 citizen advisory
communities

691
00:29:10,340 --> 00:29:11,884
in Douglas County.

692
00:29:11,884 --> 00:29:14,525
We had the six.

693
00:29:14,525 --> 00:29:16,099
And like you said,

694
00:29:16,099 --> 00:29:21,030
we met weekly or twice
a month or whatever.

695
00:29:22,600 --> 00:29:26,285
But what a great
opportunity to

696
00:29:26,285 --> 00:29:30,065
invite people to
their location,

697
00:29:30,065 --> 00:29:34,594
not to the county
courthouse or whatever.

698
00:29:34,594 --> 00:29:37,760
Work with them in
their setting and

699
00:29:37,760 --> 00:29:41,489
use examples
in their area.

700
00:29:42,490 --> 00:29:47,764
Just far more
understandable

701
00:29:47,764 --> 00:29:50,150
as to what that
impact would be.

702
00:29:50,150 --> 00:29:54,695
For them, luckily,
your area,

703
00:29:54,695 --> 00:29:57,244
your six areas are
relatively diverse,

704
00:29:57,244 --> 00:29:59,240
even though your
small coastal county,

705
00:29:59,240 --> 00:30:01,834
north coast
accounting, right?

706
00:30:01,834 --> 00:30:04,205
You've had so what we

707
00:30:04,205 --> 00:30:06,589
will what we
are six areas,

708
00:30:06,589 --> 00:30:08,450
all the nurses
that was one.

709
00:30:08,450 --> 00:30:10,174
So I'm Miles the LCM.

710
00:30:10,174 --> 00:30:11,644
That's okay.

711
00:30:11,644 --> 00:30:15,379
That would be like
Southeast area

712
00:30:15,379 --> 00:30:18,379
of the county called
LC joule is what Okay.

713
00:30:18,379 --> 00:30:19,820
Folks called it. Yeah.

714
00:30:19,820 --> 00:30:22,850
So all you had
were elderberry in

715
00:30:22,850 --> 00:30:26,870
and and restaurants
and Highway 26,

716
00:30:26,870 --> 00:30:29,825
fish hatchery,
timber galore.

717
00:30:29,825 --> 00:30:30,229
Right.

718
00:30:30,229 --> 00:30:34,430
And some class
for farmland.

719
00:30:34,430 --> 00:30:36,574
I mean, we had really

720
00:30:36,574 --> 00:30:38,689
very little for on yeah.

721
00:30:38,689 --> 00:30:40,640
Guidelines with it.

722
00:30:40,640 --> 00:30:41,480
No.

723
00:30:41,480 --> 00:30:43,339
No active farms
in that area?

724
00:30:43,339 --> 00:30:44,660
Yes. That were
either your work

725
00:30:44,660 --> 00:30:46,069
but hey, okay.

726
00:30:46,069 --> 00:30:50,839
Not Gary was
long gone. Okay.

727
00:30:50,839 --> 00:30:53,090
Racing a little bit or no?

728
00:30:53,090 --> 00:30:54,289
Yes. Okay.

729
00:30:54,289 --> 00:30:56,700
Raising the elk.

730
00:30:57,310 --> 00:31:03,049
That value was people
Northeast where

731
00:31:03,049 --> 00:31:06,259
the nap and Swensen

732
00:31:06,259 --> 00:31:08,479
small but are now
rural communities,

733
00:31:08,479 --> 00:31:10,459
I believe the big one,

734
00:31:10,459 --> 00:31:14,209
a male progeny of

735
00:31:14,209 --> 00:31:17,989
the rural areas,
the most inhabited.

736
00:31:17,989 --> 00:31:22,339
Again, ag land,
Columbia River sharp

737
00:31:22,339 --> 00:31:28,910
sharp lands, Highway 32.

738
00:31:28,910 --> 00:31:31,234
Big access to
that area? Yes.

739
00:31:31,234 --> 00:31:34,220
Excoriate to
class. Goodnight.

740
00:31:34,220 --> 00:31:36,800
I had the area
where four classic

741
00:31:36,800 --> 00:31:39,440
was two major rivers.

742
00:31:39,440 --> 00:31:40,550
They're younger and older.

743
00:31:40,550 --> 00:31:42,395
Lewis and Clark liver,

744
00:31:42,395 --> 00:31:46,799
probably the bulk
of farming there.

745
00:31:47,890 --> 00:31:50,074
And that's a real-world,

746
00:31:50,074 --> 00:31:52,549
not incorporated
city hearing.

747
00:31:52,549 --> 00:31:54,425
So the heat side
of one-on-one,

748
00:31:54,425 --> 00:31:57,649
I will decide or
one-on-one and the

749
00:31:57,649 --> 00:32:03,124
first foothills of
the coast range.

750
00:32:03,124 --> 00:32:04,114
Okay.

751
00:32:04,114 --> 00:32:06,499
It gets down to
the rivers and

752
00:32:06,499 --> 00:32:09,680
then you can close
range further east,

753
00:32:09,680 --> 00:32:11,570
you go to the north,

754
00:32:11,570 --> 00:32:13,415
you got Young's Bay and

755
00:32:13,415 --> 00:32:16,679
Astoria across the
bridge from there.

756
00:32:17,200 --> 00:32:20,960
You go west, south.
That would warrant.

757
00:32:20,960 --> 00:32:24,259
And you got the class
and planes in that

758
00:32:24,259 --> 00:32:28,549
probably got Gerhart to

759
00:32:28,549 --> 00:32:30,109
the South warrant into

760
00:32:30,109 --> 00:32:32,959
the North rolling
dunes act.

761
00:32:32,959 --> 00:32:34,159
The condition

762
00:32:34,159 --> 00:32:36,200
stable the whole nine

763
00:32:36,200 --> 00:32:37,549
yards when it
comes to that,

764
00:32:37,549 --> 00:32:39,380
lots of issues of

765
00:32:39,380 --> 00:32:43,740
how far west Can
I be alright.

766
00:32:45,130 --> 00:32:48,860
Further south around
tell him I can reach us

767
00:32:48,860 --> 00:32:52,205
out the seaside,
Northern Canada beach.

768
00:32:52,205 --> 00:32:53,719
And to the east to

769
00:32:53,719 --> 00:32:57,079
the LC jeweler is
called seaside world.

770
00:32:57,079 --> 00:33:00,320
And pretty much
exclusively

771
00:33:00,320 --> 00:33:02,795
timber and rural
residence is along

772
00:33:02,795 --> 00:33:09,650
Highway 26 and allow
Cove on the kill him.

773
00:33:09,650 --> 00:33:13,129
Pacific Ocean
straddling 101

774
00:33:13,129 --> 00:33:16,609
is Southwest Coastal,

775
00:33:16,609 --> 00:33:18,870
which was arched cape.

776
00:33:19,360 --> 00:33:21,545
And south of

777
00:33:21,545 --> 00:33:23,150
the orange cape
tunnel on your head.

778
00:33:23,150 --> 00:33:25,310
Cold beach wishes
to add erosion

779
00:33:25,310 --> 00:33:28,189
now arched KP is
unincorporated cart bronchi,

780
00:33:28,189 --> 00:33:29,884
so County manage them.

781
00:33:29,884 --> 00:33:31,580
Well, yeah.

782
00:33:31,580 --> 00:33:32,840
And that's
basically urban,

783
00:33:32,840 --> 00:33:35,210
but yet well, I mean,

784
00:33:35,210 --> 00:33:38,419
where do we what do we
what do we submitted

785
00:33:38,419 --> 00:33:42,274
our our plan originally.

786
00:33:42,274 --> 00:33:43,579
We said that being is a

787
00:33:43,579 --> 00:33:45,065
separate urban
growth boundary.

788
00:33:45,065 --> 00:33:45,664
Yeah.

789
00:33:45,664 --> 00:33:47,255
Well, sorry.

790
00:33:47,255 --> 00:33:49,399
Click on the snap
down because I'm

791
00:33:49,399 --> 00:33:52,189
not there's no incorporated
city back right.

792
00:33:52,189 --> 00:33:54,905
So we went through the
exception process,

793
00:33:54,905 --> 00:33:56,869
exception Priuses
and basically

794
00:33:56,869 --> 00:33:58,820
called it a city
in terms of yes.

795
00:33:58,820 --> 00:34:00,440
Standards. Yeah.

796
00:34:00,440 --> 00:34:02,540
Anyway, it was good
learning unless yeah,

797
00:34:02,540 --> 00:34:03,620
For both sides, a and B

798
00:34:03,620 --> 00:34:04,924
are accurate DLC deal.

799
00:34:04,924 --> 00:34:06,269
Yeah.

800
00:34:09,550 --> 00:34:13,699
And I think the
success and I think

801
00:34:13,699 --> 00:34:15,049
clot that can definitely a

802
00:34:15,049 --> 00:34:17,344
success and how
we got the plan.

803
00:34:17,344 --> 00:34:18,275
Yes.

804
00:34:18,275 --> 00:34:21,530
Was the citizen
advisory committees

805
00:34:21,530 --> 00:34:24,950
the information
provided both ways.

806
00:34:24,950 --> 00:34:29,329
And when the
CACs got there,

807
00:34:29,329 --> 00:34:32,089
got to the point
of a plan,

808
00:34:32,089 --> 00:34:34,699
we kept those plans to

809
00:34:34,699 --> 00:34:38,465
the local newspaper
and had them print

810
00:34:38,465 --> 00:34:42,109
that on newsprint
sufficient

811
00:34:42,109 --> 00:34:45,320
to mail each person
in the County.

812
00:34:45,320 --> 00:34:47,164
Wow, a copy.

813
00:34:47,164 --> 00:34:54,664
And the good was well,
it was all good.

814
00:34:54,664 --> 00:34:56,749
On the side who
kept a list

815
00:34:56,749 --> 00:34:58,624
of everybody that
we mail it to.

816
00:34:58,624 --> 00:35:00,469
So when they
told us they did

817
00:35:00,469 --> 00:35:02,509
not get this and while

818
00:35:02,509 --> 00:35:06,320
we emailed us out on
then and had very,

819
00:35:06,320 --> 00:35:11,899
very few complaints
relative to that.

820
00:35:11,899 --> 00:35:16,564
But I mean, we had
10, 12 pages yeah.

821
00:35:16,564 --> 00:35:19,174
Sip sheets,
Newspaper go wow.

822
00:35:19,174 --> 00:35:21,949
Tailored to each
planning area.

823
00:35:21,949 --> 00:35:23,280
Yeah.

824
00:35:24,430 --> 00:35:27,499
It really minimize
the amount in

825
00:35:27,499 --> 00:35:30,725
controversy at the
Planning Commission

826
00:35:30,725 --> 00:35:33,034
and county
commission lower.

827
00:35:33,034 --> 00:35:35,764
Now, That was very good.

828
00:35:35,764 --> 00:35:37,879
Yeah. Yeah. I can say I

829
00:35:37,879 --> 00:35:40,459
did a lot of the
reviewing with you.

830
00:35:40,459 --> 00:35:44,090
Back them and
lots of county

831
00:35:44,090 --> 00:35:47,495
was one of the best
carries we worked with.

832
00:35:47,495 --> 00:35:48,170
Thank you.

833
00:35:48,170 --> 00:35:49,040
A lot of it had to do

834
00:35:49,040 --> 00:35:50,179
probably with
your approach to

835
00:35:50,179 --> 00:35:52,460
things and your county
manager was supported?

836
00:35:52,460 --> 00:35:56,090
I think while
he was there?

837
00:35:56,090 --> 00:35:58,579
I'm not sure.

838
00:35:58,579 --> 00:36:00,470
I have to look back,
but I'm not sure yet.

839
00:36:00,470 --> 00:36:01,970
Accounting manager,
when we got

840
00:36:01,970 --> 00:36:04,265
acknowledged, always
average is 84.

841
00:36:04,265 --> 00:36:05,450
Okay.

842
00:36:05,450 --> 00:36:07,760
If we did, the plans had

843
00:36:07,760 --> 00:36:09,904
already been scheduled
for the board, yeah.

844
00:36:09,904 --> 00:36:12,889
Et cetera. Yeah. Why do

845
00:36:12,889 --> 00:36:13,925
you politically event,

846
00:36:13,925 --> 00:36:15,359
convert to do
what you did?

847
00:36:15,359 --> 00:36:16,520
Maybe, maybe because of

848
00:36:16,520 --> 00:36:19,350
citizen involvement.
You've got the folks.

849
00:36:20,260 --> 00:36:22,520
And in your
approach must have

850
00:36:22,520 --> 00:36:23,900
been really get
to because we

851
00:36:23,900 --> 00:36:25,249
would we would do

852
00:36:25,249 --> 00:36:26,600
reviews and
other candidates

853
00:36:26,600 --> 00:36:30,545
and I don't know
what obviously,

854
00:36:30,545 --> 00:36:32,900
the more rural residential
land you have,

855
00:36:32,900 --> 00:36:34,850
the more small woodland

856
00:36:34,850 --> 00:36:35,930
Owners that thought
they should

857
00:36:35,930 --> 00:36:37,129
be Rural Residential.

858
00:36:37,129 --> 00:36:39,484
I mean, there are points
of controversy that

859
00:36:39,484 --> 00:36:41,180
somehow either ML that you

860
00:36:41,180 --> 00:36:43,205
avoided that that
should minimize them.

861
00:36:43,205 --> 00:36:48,095
Well, I look at the
demographics of

862
00:36:48,095 --> 00:36:49,999
clouds have cavity
and two-thirds

863
00:36:49,999 --> 00:36:52,940
of our urban in the city.

864
00:36:52,940 --> 00:36:53,839
Yeah.

865
00:36:53,839 --> 00:36:56,750
You had a very
progressive,

866
00:36:56,750 --> 00:36:59,150
in my opinion, newspaper

867
00:36:59,150 --> 00:37:01,099
that is going to
get to that too.

868
00:37:01,099 --> 00:37:02,900
As well as that was

869
00:37:02,900 --> 00:37:06,319
a great experience
with planning prior to

870
00:37:06,319 --> 00:37:08,435
the more detailed
plan that

871
00:37:08,435 --> 00:37:10,159
the statewide
planning goals and

872
00:37:10,159 --> 00:37:12,050
guidelines provided.

873
00:37:12,050 --> 00:37:17,330
So they were back
to like 960,

874
00:37:17,330 --> 00:37:21,364
at least in terms of
its zoning ordinance.

875
00:37:21,364 --> 00:37:22,760
That's a good point.

876
00:37:22,760 --> 00:37:24,875
Senate bill Tim,
you might recall,

877
00:37:24,875 --> 00:37:27,530
was the forerunner
to the 100

878
00:37:27,530 --> 00:37:29,329
and had class have done

879
00:37:29,329 --> 00:37:31,399
a better job working
with Senate Bill town.

880
00:37:31,399 --> 00:37:33,874
I remember in Douglas
we were struggling and

881
00:37:33,874 --> 00:37:37,699
y first we are

882
00:37:37,699 --> 00:37:40,490
first foray into dealing
with the public on

883
00:37:40,490 --> 00:37:42,755
zoning was the
zone forest land

884
00:37:42,755 --> 00:37:44,239
at five-acre minimums.

885
00:37:44,239 --> 00:37:45,845
And we were just I mean,

886
00:37:45,845 --> 00:37:47,329
they people are
coming out of

887
00:37:47,329 --> 00:37:49,669
the woodwork after a
five acre. That's all.

888
00:37:49,669 --> 00:37:49,954
Yeah.

889
00:37:49,954 --> 00:37:52,640
They were just what
are you communist?

890
00:37:52,640 --> 00:37:57,409
No, I think not only
the cognitive bot and I

891
00:37:57,409 --> 00:38:02,614
never heard that that
issue raised in class.

892
00:38:02,614 --> 00:38:05,660
I mean, I didn't hear
people convulsing over

893
00:38:05,660 --> 00:38:08,360
all this plot by
the government

894
00:38:08,360 --> 00:38:11,720
to take my land and
that kind of stuff.

895
00:38:11,720 --> 00:38:12,994
Yeah, I know what

896
00:38:12,994 --> 00:38:14,719
the newspaper had a
lot to do with it.

897
00:38:14,719 --> 00:38:17,195
They you've had a
very good editor.

898
00:38:17,195 --> 00:38:18,515
Forster?

899
00:38:18,515 --> 00:38:19,175
Yes.

900
00:38:19,175 --> 00:38:20,960
But four by fours.

901
00:38:20,960 --> 00:38:22,445
Who got it?

902
00:38:22,445 --> 00:38:24,200
I mean, he understood he

903
00:38:24,200 --> 00:38:25,505
was on the commission.

904
00:38:25,505 --> 00:38:26,419
Oh, that's right.

905
00:38:26,419 --> 00:38:27,334
That's right.

906
00:38:27,334 --> 00:38:29,600
If you didn't vote for
our acknowledgement

907
00:38:29,600 --> 00:38:34,025
of our plant aside.

908
00:38:34,025 --> 00:38:36,530
But he had this
concern that

909
00:38:36,530 --> 00:38:39,935
DO he he sees diagram?

910
00:38:39,935 --> 00:38:41,150
Yeah, absolutely.

911
00:38:41,150 --> 00:38:43,670
He understood
the big picture

912
00:38:43,670 --> 00:38:45,619
of what the eye to
be accomplished in

913
00:38:45,619 --> 00:38:47,645
credit to him and embed
it into the candy

914
00:38:47,645 --> 00:38:50,405
that you guys got
through acknowledgment.

915
00:38:50,405 --> 00:38:52,009
I mean, not to say it

916
00:38:52,009 --> 00:38:54,574
wasn't painful because
we all have pain.

917
00:38:54,574 --> 00:38:57,514
But you did a really
good job at me.

918
00:38:57,514 --> 00:38:59,389
I just don't remember that

919
00:38:59,389 --> 00:39:01,280
the range of controversy,

920
00:39:01,280 --> 00:39:03,485
a class that I experienced

921
00:39:03,485 --> 00:39:05,764
law again, many
other demographics.

922
00:39:05,764 --> 00:39:06,844
Yeah.

923
00:39:06,844 --> 00:39:09,540
Uh, when you have

924
00:39:11,290 --> 00:39:16,714
I think from a
soils standpoint,

925
00:39:16,714 --> 00:39:18,920
roughly 90 percent
of the counties

926
00:39:18,920 --> 00:39:21,485
forest land soil, yeah.

927
00:39:21,485 --> 00:39:24,604
Well, of that, probably

928
00:39:24,604 --> 00:39:28,354
75% of its own by Crown,

929
00:39:28,354 --> 00:39:31,099
State Forestry and
whatnot. Right?

930
00:39:31,099 --> 00:39:35,120
And they're in the
business to preserve land.

931
00:39:35,120 --> 00:39:36,229
Yeah. I mean, yeah,

932
00:39:36,229 --> 00:39:38,210
we might want a
destination resort

933
00:39:38,210 --> 00:39:39,905
here and there, whatever.

934
00:39:39,905 --> 00:39:44,799
But if you had a built-in
constituency that

935
00:39:44,799 --> 00:39:46,990
included folks that
worked for them

936
00:39:46,990 --> 00:39:50,770
that largely lived in
a rural area right.

937
00:39:50,770 --> 00:39:53,004
Now. That didn't mean

938
00:39:53,004 --> 00:39:54,970
that they didn't
want to protect

939
00:39:54,970 --> 00:39:57,520
their forest tract for

940
00:39:57,520 --> 00:40:00,025
their three kids
or whatever.

941
00:40:00,025 --> 00:40:02,335
But had a lot of

942
00:40:02,335 --> 00:40:05,230
built-in very
positive factors like

943
00:40:05,230 --> 00:40:08,425
now as to where we're
kinda the planet?

944
00:40:08,425 --> 00:40:10,855
Yes. Yeah, For sure.

945
00:40:10,855 --> 00:40:13,539
Yeah, I'm sure they
could see the value in

946
00:40:13,539 --> 00:40:14,769
protecting forests
land because

947
00:40:14,769 --> 00:40:16,509
their livelihood
depended on it.

948
00:40:16,509 --> 00:40:17,500
And you also have

949
00:40:17,500 --> 00:40:18,835
the best forest
land and the state.

950
00:40:18,835 --> 00:40:20,635
I mean, nobody
could debate

951
00:40:20,635 --> 00:40:24,405
other parts of the lesson.

952
00:40:24,405 --> 00:40:25,819
This isn't good for us.

953
00:40:25,819 --> 00:40:27,829
We had a lot of
discussion about

954
00:40:27,829 --> 00:40:30,260
the quality of the land,

955
00:40:30,260 --> 00:40:31,670
whether it was going
through your goal

956
00:40:31,670 --> 00:40:33,470
for women, that applied.

957
00:40:33,470 --> 00:40:37,650
Military was really
never an issue goal for.

958
00:40:39,370 --> 00:40:41,570
Well, I've got jagged line

959
00:40:41,570 --> 00:40:42,799
isn't worth
anything anyway,

960
00:40:42,799 --> 00:40:44,119
go ahead and put
it in an IEP.

961
00:40:44,119 --> 00:40:46,909
You so maybe that's fine.

962
00:40:46,909 --> 00:40:51,030
Line is not in dispute.

963
00:40:51,310 --> 00:40:54,200
I was disputed, but if

964
00:40:54,200 --> 00:40:56,584
we have to do it,
how they died.

965
00:40:56,584 --> 00:40:59,749
Yet to me, if you
have the while,

966
00:40:59,749 --> 00:41:02,014
I was also floodplain,

967
00:41:02,014 --> 00:41:05,254
so they knew they
could be anything.

968
00:41:05,254 --> 00:41:08,009
And who joined
it anyway? Yeah.

969
00:41:11,500 --> 00:41:13,520
Okay.

970
00:41:13,520 --> 00:41:15,514
I'm done, number eight.

971
00:41:15,514 --> 00:41:16,369
Okay.

972
00:41:16,369 --> 00:41:17,210
Do you believe

973
00:41:17,210 --> 00:41:18,590
the statewide
planning goals strike

974
00:41:18,590 --> 00:41:20,750
the balance between
state and local control

975
00:41:20,750 --> 00:41:26,190
that LCD see intended
in 1974. Yes.

976
00:41:26,470 --> 00:41:29,360
I think it's
critical to have

977
00:41:29,360 --> 00:41:32,999
a strong state president,

978
00:41:34,480 --> 00:41:40,499
especially establishing
standards, the goals.

979
00:41:41,380 --> 00:41:44,074
Class 1 through 4,

980
00:41:44,074 --> 00:41:46,774
farmland in
psych class for,

981
00:41:46,774 --> 00:41:50,749
for forest land
and even to

982
00:41:50,749 --> 00:41:55,369
the point of defining
at the dune areas,

983
00:41:55,369 --> 00:41:59,644
make a heck of
a lot easier on

984
00:41:59,644 --> 00:42:03,020
local folks to educate

985
00:42:03,020 --> 00:42:05,074
folks when you
guys standard,

986
00:42:05,074 --> 00:42:06,709
as opposed to
trying to put

987
00:42:06,709 --> 00:42:10,070
that standard gathering
taking months,

988
00:42:10,070 --> 00:42:13,920
years, people lose
interests, etc.

989
00:42:16,350 --> 00:42:18,490
And in your
county there was

990
00:42:18,490 --> 00:42:20,454
probably a little
less controversy.

991
00:42:20,454 --> 00:42:22,089
Because like

992
00:42:22,089 --> 00:42:23,710
forest land, that
wasn't a debate.

993
00:42:23,710 --> 00:42:25,629
Everybody knows
good quality force

994
00:42:25,629 --> 00:42:27,279
up so that you

995
00:42:27,279 --> 00:42:31,930
had can't
remember the name

996
00:42:31,930 --> 00:42:34,764
of the forest group.

997
00:42:34,764 --> 00:42:39,189
But she had Soil
Conservation Service there.

998
00:42:39,189 --> 00:42:41,725
They'd come out
and advocate,

999
00:42:41,725 --> 00:42:45,159
preserve this as farmland
or that is force

1000
00:42:45,159 --> 00:42:46,330
now that they've provided

1001
00:42:46,330 --> 00:42:48,819
that technical
information exactly.

1002
00:42:48,819 --> 00:42:53,050
People to make
a judgment on.

1003
00:42:53,050 --> 00:42:54,970
You can go get
the soil survey

1004
00:42:54,970 --> 00:42:56,650
and it would say
it's good for us?

1005
00:42:56,650 --> 00:42:57,189
Yes.

1006
00:42:57,189 --> 00:42:58,014
Exactly. Yeah.

1007
00:42:58,014 --> 00:43:07,100
It wouldn't.
Extension service

1008
00:43:07,100 --> 00:43:09,509
in class your county had?

1009
00:43:09,850 --> 00:43:12,529
About the same as my body.

1010
00:43:12,529 --> 00:43:13,039
Yes.

1011
00:43:13,039 --> 00:43:17,180
I'm I met Mike who was
really into that any

1012
00:43:17,180 --> 00:43:20,345
really introduce
Christmas tree farming

1013
00:43:20,345 --> 00:43:22,070
as an option for,

1014
00:43:22,070 --> 00:43:28,879
for folks at small areas
that still were very

1015
00:43:28,879 --> 00:43:32,240
conducive to growing
christianity surrounded

1016
00:43:32,240 --> 00:43:37,440
on three sides by big
forest tracks. And

1017
00:43:38,150 --> 00:43:40,950
I haven't seen
for decades,

1018
00:43:40,950 --> 00:43:43,470
but I recall he telling

1019
00:43:43,470 --> 00:43:46,320
me something to the effect

1020
00:43:46,320 --> 00:43:52,679
that if you had
don't quote me,

1021
00:43:52,679 --> 00:43:55,050
four acres of all
their course,

1022
00:43:55,050 --> 00:43:58,650
all other and moist
areas clients of county.

1023
00:43:58,650 --> 00:44:00,630
If you had four acres

1024
00:44:00,630 --> 00:44:05,004
of all the ring
you managed it,

1025
00:44:05,004 --> 00:44:07,189
he would have a never

1026
00:44:07,189 --> 00:44:08,314
ending supply of thought,

1027
00:44:08,314 --> 00:44:13,804
firewood, anything even
sell some of which.

1028
00:44:13,804 --> 00:44:15,799
Well, yeah.

1029
00:44:15,799 --> 00:44:18,679
It's a standard to
somebody who can

1030
00:44:18,679 --> 00:44:21,694
build by telling you
how productive yeah.

1031
00:44:21,694 --> 00:44:22,700
Exactly.

1032
00:44:22,700 --> 00:44:24,559
You're doing
that. Now, the

1033
00:44:24,559 --> 00:44:26,495
other part of the a yes.

1034
00:44:26,495 --> 00:44:33,005
Is the state had the
power to enforce it.

1035
00:44:33,005 --> 00:44:37,799
We edit enforcement order
to get our ag land.

1036
00:44:37,960 --> 00:44:43,249
That was probably the

1037
00:44:43,249 --> 00:44:45,530
most difficult
of all the ones

1038
00:44:45,530 --> 00:44:46,924
we really did deal with.

1039
00:44:46,924 --> 00:44:48,239
Yeah.

1040
00:44:49,120 --> 00:44:52,745
Getting your memory
really fortunate enough,

1041
00:44:52,745 --> 00:44:54,769
maybe or maybe threatened.

1042
00:44:54,769 --> 00:44:55,789
Okay.

1043
00:44:55,789 --> 00:44:57,620
I remember appearing at

1044
00:44:57,620 --> 00:45:02,269
the commission
meeting and I

1045
00:45:02,269 --> 00:45:04,160
think at that time we had

1046
00:45:04,160 --> 00:45:06,859
one commissioner who was

1047
00:45:06,859 --> 00:45:09,409
against Sony
was Thank God,

1048
00:45:09,409 --> 00:45:11,194
motherhood and
apple pie, right?

1049
00:45:11,194 --> 00:45:11,645
Yeah.

1050
00:45:11,645 --> 00:45:13,969
He was the one that
led the charge

1051
00:45:13,969 --> 00:45:16,429
to know we're not
gonna do this.

1052
00:45:16,429 --> 00:45:18,050
And he appeared at

1053
00:45:18,050 --> 00:45:24,470
the commission meeting
and didn't prevail,

1054
00:45:24,470 --> 00:45:27,935
so we did go
back and apply.

1055
00:45:27,935 --> 00:45:29,475
Okay.

1056
00:45:29,475 --> 00:45:33,789
I was part of

1057
00:45:33,789 --> 00:45:36,159
that with the class of
dunes area because I

1058
00:45:36,159 --> 00:45:37,719
remember Ron and I had

1059
00:45:37,719 --> 00:45:41,739
that discussion in the
office about was there

1060
00:45:41,739 --> 00:45:42,969
such a thing as lands

1061
00:45:42,969 --> 00:45:44,499
that go three
or four didn't

1062
00:45:44,499 --> 00:45:47,589
apply to and I coming
from Douglas County,

1063
00:45:47,589 --> 00:45:49,239
I found some and Douglas

1064
00:45:49,239 --> 00:45:53,000
didn't apply Ry hall.

1065
00:45:53,610 --> 00:45:57,430
There's several
on a couple

1066
00:45:57,430 --> 00:45:59,604
of 100 acre tract
and aquatic plant.

1067
00:45:59,604 --> 00:46:03,669
Yeah. I think you

1068
00:46:03,669 --> 00:46:04,690
got the non you've

1069
00:46:04,690 --> 00:46:06,385
got them designates
non-bold,

1070
00:46:06,385 --> 00:46:09,160
three non go for
eventually. Yeah.

1071
00:46:09,160 --> 00:46:10,670
Yes.

1072
00:46:11,740 --> 00:46:15,289
Hey, I'm not remembering

1073
00:46:15,289 --> 00:46:18,829
how the acknowledgment
process went through.

1074
00:46:18,829 --> 00:46:21,019
That was one of

1075
00:46:21,019 --> 00:46:22,880
the last things
kind of cliche.

1076
00:46:22,880 --> 00:46:24,710
But I remember sitting

1077
00:46:24,710 --> 00:46:26,929
down with RON and
talking through

1078
00:46:26,929 --> 00:46:28,549
that process
because I think

1079
00:46:28,549 --> 00:46:31,670
that concept at
the agency from

1080
00:46:31,670 --> 00:46:33,949
the beginning was you're
either go through

1081
00:46:33,949 --> 00:46:35,354
your outside at UCB

1082
00:46:35,354 --> 00:46:37,189
to have to be one
or the other.

1083
00:46:37,189 --> 00:46:40,099
And of course, as
a local planner,

1084
00:46:40,099 --> 00:46:42,559
our job was to
find things.

1085
00:46:42,559 --> 00:46:44,659
We came from a different
perspective, yeah.

1086
00:46:44,659 --> 00:46:46,100
Right. And so you

1087
00:46:46,100 --> 00:46:47,780
try to apply these
and you said,

1088
00:46:47,780 --> 00:46:50,405
Well, that doesn't
really fit here.

1089
00:46:50,405 --> 00:46:52,310
And as you look at other,

1090
00:46:52,310 --> 00:46:53,794
look at the other goals,

1091
00:46:53,794 --> 00:46:55,760
me, in our experience,

1092
00:46:55,760 --> 00:46:57,200
we went back and
looked at goal

1093
00:46:57,200 --> 00:46:58,955
five and other
things because gold

1094
00:46:58,955 --> 00:47:00,980
three talked about
other end goal

1095
00:47:00,980 --> 00:47:01,819
for our talked about

1096
00:47:01,819 --> 00:47:03,395
habitat and other things.

1097
00:47:03,395 --> 00:47:04,759
You'd have to
go through and

1098
00:47:04,759 --> 00:47:06,199
apply all aspects of

1099
00:47:06,199 --> 00:47:08,779
the goal in detail
to this layout.

1100
00:47:08,779 --> 00:47:10,189
Then if it's still
didn't apply,

1101
00:47:10,189 --> 00:47:11,180
then you've had a case.

1102
00:47:11,180 --> 00:47:13,879
And so one the one

1103
00:47:13,879 --> 00:47:16,880
that we really love
Gateway beaches and do.

1104
00:47:16,880 --> 00:47:17,600
Okay.

1105
00:47:17,600 --> 00:47:21,590
And it was in clots
or county you had

1106
00:47:21,590 --> 00:47:27,170
if you remember the
arc that the group,

1107
00:47:27,170 --> 00:47:29,179
but yet a special district

1108
00:47:29,179 --> 00:47:32,299
created like
the 20s or 30s,

1109
00:47:32,299 --> 00:47:36,080
1920, 30s because the area

1110
00:47:36,080 --> 00:47:38,300
which is inundated
with sand.

1111
00:47:38,300 --> 00:47:40,490
And so you had a history

1112
00:47:40,490 --> 00:47:44,194
establish beach dune
and stabilized.

1113
00:47:44,194 --> 00:47:46,099
They do I say, wow,

1114
00:47:46,099 --> 00:47:49,010
and there was like from
101 all the way west.

1115
00:47:49,010 --> 00:47:49,774
Yeah.

1116
00:47:49,774 --> 00:47:52,415
And so the argument was,

1117
00:47:52,415 --> 00:47:55,130
if you put intensive
agriculture on

1118
00:47:55,130 --> 00:47:59,629
there or try it,

1119
00:47:59,629 --> 00:48:02,719
you got the chance
of going back to

1120
00:48:02,719 --> 00:48:06,290
stripping this
stabilizing soil

1121
00:48:06,290 --> 00:48:08,510
from the dunes in
creating more,

1122
00:48:08,510 --> 00:48:09,829
do I mean creating more?

1123
00:48:09,829 --> 00:48:10,460
I think.

1124
00:48:10,460 --> 00:48:11,990
Yeah. Yeah.

1125
00:48:11,990 --> 00:48:14,899
I think that was kind
of our argument.

1126
00:48:14,899 --> 00:48:15,334
Yeah.

1127
00:48:15,334 --> 00:48:16,894
Added that to
the discussion.

1128
00:48:16,894 --> 00:48:20,059
Anyway, they ended
up because I

1129
00:48:20,059 --> 00:48:23,480
think one of those
100 acre tracts

1130
00:48:23,480 --> 00:48:25,685
in fact was in

1131
00:48:25,685 --> 00:48:29,269
farm zoning outlets south

1132
00:48:29,269 --> 00:48:32,689
of his story Country

1133
00:48:32,689 --> 00:48:34,925
Club or Sunset
Beach Road south,

1134
00:48:34,925 --> 00:48:38,464
like a gear her
immediately West,

1135
00:48:38,464 --> 00:48:43,174
which was active
grazing far. Okay.

1136
00:48:43,174 --> 00:48:44,959
They didn't make
their money there?

1137
00:48:44,959 --> 00:48:47,119
Yeah. No, for sure.

1138
00:48:47,119 --> 00:48:54,724
And I think besides
enforcement capability,

1139
00:48:54,724 --> 00:48:59,974
is the ability of

1140
00:48:59,974 --> 00:49:02,435
outside groups
to participate.

1141
00:49:02,435 --> 00:49:05,720
Whether they be
1000 friends

1142
00:49:05,720 --> 00:49:08,510
of Oregon or I'm trying

1143
00:49:08,510 --> 00:49:11,270
to think of who the
group on the coast

1144
00:49:11,270 --> 00:49:14,915
was that was very
pro development.

1145
00:49:14,915 --> 00:49:16,670
Came and went
several times,

1146
00:49:16,670 --> 00:49:19,385
but I can't remember.

1147
00:49:19,385 --> 00:49:21,770
So you somewhat had

1148
00:49:21,770 --> 00:49:25,295
a balance there
but not really.

1149
00:49:25,295 --> 00:49:26,600
Because you got

1150
00:49:26,600 --> 00:49:28,069
the adult brain
still battalion.

1151
00:49:28,069 --> 00:49:28,729
Thank you.

1152
00:49:28,729 --> 00:49:30,439
Oregon shores and
some others were

1153
00:49:30,439 --> 00:49:32,659
conservation groups
like Intel or

1154
00:49:32,659 --> 00:49:35,689
several of their
legal women

1155
00:49:35,689 --> 00:49:37,115
voters who are
very active.

1156
00:49:37,115 --> 00:49:39,185
I think they were
they weren't so much

1157
00:49:39,185 --> 00:49:41,599
in cloth or can they
were like, yeah.

1158
00:49:41,599 --> 00:49:43,369
I'm not sure now
because we were so

1159
00:49:43,369 --> 00:49:44,900
good at doing well,

1160
00:49:44,900 --> 00:49:46,874
you actually huge one

1161
00:49:46,874 --> 00:49:54,065
for question nine from
your perspective,

1162
00:49:54,065 --> 00:49:55,400
how have prominent state

1163
00:49:55,400 --> 00:49:57,079
and local elected
officials,

1164
00:49:57,079 --> 00:49:58,459
ballot measures,
actions by

1165
00:49:58,459 --> 00:50:01,115
the legislature in
key court rulings.

1166
00:50:01,115 --> 00:50:02,779
The advanced or undercut

1167
00:50:02,779 --> 00:50:04,520
the original purposes
and Senate Bill

1168
00:50:04,520 --> 00:50:06,710
100 and drafting and

1169
00:50:06,710 --> 00:50:09,480
implementing the
plan and goals.

1170
00:50:10,240 --> 00:50:14,539
Well, I guess it's

1171
00:50:14,539 --> 00:50:16,010
pretty hard to
come up with

1172
00:50:16,010 --> 00:50:18,529
anybody better than
gathered and recall and,

1173
00:50:18,529 --> 00:50:20,375
and heparin and fears,

1174
00:50:20,375 --> 00:50:23,179
terms, liters and a

1175
00:50:23,179 --> 00:50:26,569
passion for what
Oregon wise,

1176
00:50:26,569 --> 00:50:29,300
where they and their
families grew up

1177
00:50:29,300 --> 00:50:33,890
and seeing what
was transpiring.

1178
00:50:33,890 --> 00:50:41,579
And advocates for
strong planning.

1179
00:50:41,650 --> 00:50:44,779
I guess, pretty tough.

1180
00:50:44,779 --> 00:50:50,329
Or made it easier to
have somebody who was

1181
00:50:50,329 --> 00:50:53,495
a news broadcaster call

1182
00:50:53,495 --> 00:50:56,915
yep, state exposure
recognition.

1183
00:50:56,915 --> 00:51:06,799
Now, charismatic,
bombastic of course.

1184
00:51:06,799 --> 00:51:09,830
But to the human,

1185
00:51:09,830 --> 00:51:13,340
you may or may not
remember Israel spiel

1186
00:51:13,340 --> 00:51:17,539
of sprawling with
coastal condominium.

1187
00:51:17,539 --> 00:51:20,900
You seen that
speech many times.

1188
00:51:20,900 --> 00:51:24,169
If I already
look at that now

1189
00:51:24,169 --> 00:51:25,669
many years later
is that and

1190
00:51:25,669 --> 00:51:28,250
we read call it added up.

1191
00:51:28,250 --> 00:51:31,129
So I still remember
him and channel

1192
00:51:31,129 --> 00:51:34,070
a walking in the
Willamette River

1193
00:51:34,070 --> 00:51:36,290
and pulling up trash

1194
00:51:36,290 --> 00:51:37,520
that had been
thrown in there

1195
00:51:37,520 --> 00:51:38,839
and it also on

1196
00:51:38,839 --> 00:51:41,209
the LQR some place
efficient blackface.

1197
00:51:41,209 --> 00:51:42,485
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Sure.

1198
00:51:42,485 --> 00:51:45,919
Kids soccer as well,
but yeah. Yeah.

1199
00:51:45,919 --> 00:51:47,599
Now he was a
great spokesman,

1200
00:51:47,599 --> 00:51:49,459
plot the vision of what

1201
00:51:49,459 --> 00:51:51,559
he wanted to pretend
for Morgan for

1202
00:51:51,559 --> 00:51:54,515
or against the
S's really and

1203
00:51:54,515 --> 00:51:56,360
even wanted to I plan

1204
00:51:56,360 --> 00:51:58,489
was threatened by
ballot measures.

1205
00:51:58,489 --> 00:52:01,130
He came back in.

1206
00:52:01,130 --> 00:52:03,935
I think his presence
had a lot to do

1207
00:52:03,935 --> 00:52:05,464
with all of the

1208
00:52:05,464 --> 00:52:07,130
not all of them
because he passed,

1209
00:52:07,130 --> 00:52:09,409
I think before the
last point, yeah.

1210
00:52:09,409 --> 00:52:12,169
But at a big influence

1211
00:52:12,169 --> 00:52:14,584
on why those ballot
measures fail.

1212
00:52:14,584 --> 00:52:15,929
Yeah.

1213
00:52:16,630 --> 00:52:20,119
Yeah. Frankly, we don't

1214
00:52:20,119 --> 00:52:21,934
have those
leaders now know.

1215
00:52:21,934 --> 00:52:27,079
And there's
another question

1216
00:52:27,079 --> 00:52:29,509
that we'll deal
with that I know.

1217
00:52:29,509 --> 00:52:33,199
Something I was going
to ask you is back

1218
00:52:33,199 --> 00:52:36,290
in those days to check,

1219
00:52:36,290 --> 00:52:37,040
I'm going to talk with

1220
00:52:37,040 --> 00:52:38,059
that, solid them again,

1221
00:52:38,059 --> 00:52:40,024
an interview about
facade good,

1222
00:52:40,024 --> 00:52:42,080
Pisano and Baker
vs. Milwaukee.

1223
00:52:42,080 --> 00:52:43,970
I don't know how
you remember those,

1224
00:52:43,970 --> 00:52:47,299
but I remember those
in Douglas County.

1225
00:52:47,299 --> 00:52:48,350
Those probably had

1226
00:52:48,350 --> 00:52:52,429
as much prominence
in shaping

1227
00:52:52,429 --> 00:52:55,505
our land-use activities as

1228
00:52:55,505 --> 00:52:58,669
the one on the statewide
planning goals

1229
00:52:58,669 --> 00:52:59,855
did yeah.

1230
00:52:59,855 --> 00:53:01,880
I was thinking
of the facade.

1231
00:53:01,880 --> 00:53:04,355
No decision on
this question.

1232
00:53:04,355 --> 00:53:07,339
Yeah. And my
brain went was

1233
00:53:07,339 --> 00:53:11,254
that before the
goals adaptive?

1234
00:53:11,254 --> 00:53:12,380
I mean, it was right

1235
00:53:12,380 --> 00:53:13,490
around the time they were,

1236
00:53:13,490 --> 00:53:15,260
right, I think,
but as I recall,

1237
00:53:15,260 --> 00:53:16,864
It's a zygote
and said, Hey,

1238
00:53:16,864 --> 00:53:19,744
the land use planning
supreme to zoning.

1239
00:53:19,744 --> 00:53:21,605
Well, actually
Baker did that.

1240
00:53:21,605 --> 00:53:22,369
Baker did that.

1241
00:53:22,369 --> 00:53:23,780
Asana set up the

1242
00:53:23,780 --> 00:53:26,015
legislative and
quasi judicial.

1243
00:53:26,015 --> 00:53:27,034
That's right.

1244
00:53:27,034 --> 00:53:30,890
That that was earth-shaking
for us because at

1245
00:53:30,890 --> 00:53:35,300
the time our planning
commission oftentimes

1246
00:53:35,300 --> 00:53:37,429
met in the basement
of the courtroom,

1247
00:53:37,429 --> 00:53:38,900
we were the
only ones there

1248
00:53:38,900 --> 00:53:40,820
with the Planning
Commission,

1249
00:53:40,820 --> 00:53:42,470
and they'd have done that.

1250
00:53:42,470 --> 00:53:43,969
An applicant
would come in and

1251
00:53:43,969 --> 00:53:46,129
they one of our two
measures will roll

1252
00:53:46,129 --> 00:53:47,660
up the masker map that had

1253
00:53:47,660 --> 00:53:50,600
all the names of
property owners on it.

1254
00:53:50,600 --> 00:53:53,540
And I remember
Lin, Lin Berkeley,

1255
00:53:53,540 --> 00:53:55,189
I think was a
nice guy real

1256
00:53:55,189 --> 00:53:57,064
after the new every piece.

1257
00:53:57,064 --> 00:53:58,055
Of course.

1258
00:53:58,055 --> 00:53:59,569
And he'd say, okay,

1259
00:53:59,569 --> 00:54:01,130
I think you're over here,

1260
00:54:01,130 --> 00:54:04,969
point the parcels
and your mom and dad

1261
00:54:04,969 --> 00:54:06,199
on this and
they want to do

1262
00:54:06,199 --> 00:54:09,094
this in red the dice
and let's do it.

1263
00:54:09,094 --> 00:54:10,729
Yeah, or the
guy would say,

1264
00:54:10,729 --> 00:54:12,439
well, I'm buying
that place,

1265
00:54:12,439 --> 00:54:14,974
I can california and shift

1266
00:54:14,974 --> 00:54:18,215
use that word
classical planning.

1267
00:54:18,215 --> 00:54:20,389
She would say, well, I

1268
00:54:20,389 --> 00:54:21,200
don't think that's in

1269
00:54:21,200 --> 00:54:23,029
the interest of
the counter.

1270
00:54:23,029 --> 00:54:24,079
Okay.

1271
00:54:24,079 --> 00:54:26,449
So here for auto
and Baker, I mean,

1272
00:54:26,449 --> 00:54:28,594
pesante comes along
and it just sets out

1273
00:54:28,594 --> 00:54:31,130
the whole process
and find Oh,

1274
00:54:31,130 --> 00:54:32,660
we got to rearrange
everything.

1275
00:54:32,660 --> 00:54:34,579
That was really yeah.

1276
00:54:34,579 --> 00:54:37,490
I agree to the better,
but earth shattering.

1277
00:54:37,490 --> 00:54:39,030
Yes.

1278
00:54:39,610 --> 00:54:41,705
Really.

1279
00:54:41,705 --> 00:54:45,335
Parameters on the
hearing price? Yes.

1280
00:54:45,335 --> 00:54:49,399
In what you you
can't willy-nilly

1281
00:54:49,399 --> 00:54:51,079
pick out a year from

1282
00:54:51,079 --> 00:54:53,980
Florida or or California?

1283
00:54:53,980 --> 00:54:54,664
Denied.

1284
00:54:54,664 --> 00:54:56,660
Based on my hand
on the book.

1285
00:54:56,660 --> 00:54:57,485
You find it?

1286
00:54:57,485 --> 00:54:58,609
Yeah. You can't walk up

1287
00:54:58,609 --> 00:55:01,474
an ex parte contact
and add that.

1288
00:55:01,474 --> 00:55:03,620
If you talk to
anybody and we had

1289
00:55:03,620 --> 00:55:05,224
two or three
religions on them

1290
00:55:05,224 --> 00:55:07,550
commission at the
time and they Well,

1291
00:55:07,550 --> 00:55:08,599
I'll talk to him about

1292
00:55:08,599 --> 00:55:09,725
that. I can't mold on it.

1293
00:55:09,725 --> 00:55:13,220
I mean, they literally
to their credit,

1294
00:55:13,220 --> 00:55:16,490
they took it seriously
and we ended up having

1295
00:55:16,490 --> 00:55:18,904
a much different
process that I think

1296
00:55:18,904 --> 00:55:21,965
was obviously was
much fair to people.

1297
00:55:21,965 --> 00:55:24,560
And by every
appearance it was

1298
00:55:24,560 --> 00:55:27,274
major brain will process.

1299
00:55:27,274 --> 00:55:30,035
And then separating
the process in that

1300
00:55:30,035 --> 00:55:31,819
legislative comprehensive

1301
00:55:31,819 --> 00:55:32,990
plans were legislated.

1302
00:55:32,990 --> 00:55:34,189
But this other
stuff he got

1303
00:55:34,189 --> 00:55:36,500
an invalid
judicially right.

1304
00:55:36,500 --> 00:55:38,420
And it made a
big difference.

1305
00:55:38,420 --> 00:55:40,430
Really 10 percent.

1306
00:55:40,430 --> 00:55:42,890
How do you think Oregon's
land-use program

1307
00:55:42,890 --> 00:55:45,439
2019 compares with what

1308
00:55:45,439 --> 00:55:48,239
was envisioned
for decades ago?

1309
00:55:48,850 --> 00:55:56,164
Well, in talking with

1310
00:55:56,164 --> 00:55:59,599
people where I
where I live,

1311
00:55:59,599 --> 00:56:02,299
they want to know
what did you do for

1312
00:56:02,299 --> 00:56:04,775
a living and all
that kind of stuff.

1313
00:56:04,775 --> 00:56:08,540
And you start clocking

1314
00:56:08,540 --> 00:56:11,645
in any kind of
specifics about it.

1315
00:56:11,645 --> 00:56:16,489
And don't really think

1316
00:56:16,489 --> 00:56:20,824
there's an awareness
of specificity.

1317
00:56:20,824 --> 00:56:22,474
They get that preserve

1318
00:56:22,474 --> 00:56:25,380
farmland, forests, land.

1319
00:56:26,830 --> 00:56:32,899
So on the same side

1320
00:56:32,899 --> 00:56:34,610
of that quarter is

1321
00:56:34,610 --> 00:56:37,159
they kind of take
it for granted.

1322
00:56:37,159 --> 00:56:41,825
That there is,
there are controls.

1323
00:56:41,825 --> 00:56:49,880
And certainly in
the seventies,

1324
00:56:49,880 --> 00:56:52,729
the eighties and nineties,

1325
00:56:52,729 --> 00:56:54,034
I think that was say,

1326
00:56:54,034 --> 00:56:57,680
more awareness because
the plants are

1327
00:56:57,680 --> 00:56:58,700
getting going through

1328
00:56:58,700 --> 00:57:02,449
the hearing process
and getting adopted.

1329
00:57:02,449 --> 00:57:05,825
Quite frankly, I aside

1330
00:57:05,825 --> 00:57:10,170
from taking it for
granted, comment,

1331
00:57:10,180 --> 00:57:13,085
I don't know how
much is taught in

1332
00:57:13,085 --> 00:57:14,719
elementary school
or high school

1333
00:57:14,719 --> 00:57:16,340
regarding that,

1334
00:57:16,340 --> 00:57:19,279
I knew when the recycling
locking into place,

1335
00:57:19,279 --> 00:57:21,410
there was some dealing

1336
00:57:21,410 --> 00:57:22,879
with that because I did

1337
00:57:22,879 --> 00:57:29,159
so in grade school or
whatnot in Astoria.

1338
00:57:29,260 --> 00:57:35,219
How do I think
we could help

1339
00:57:36,760 --> 00:57:39,289
get that across to

1340
00:57:39,289 --> 00:57:41,374
people at there is
that program would

1341
00:57:41,374 --> 00:57:44,060
be and maybe it's

1342
00:57:44,060 --> 00:57:45,709
being done and I'm
just not a letter.

1343
00:57:45,709 --> 00:57:47,404
Yeah, that's the
problem I have.

1344
00:57:47,404 --> 00:57:49,190
Is I just far
enough removed now?

1345
00:57:49,190 --> 00:57:50,495
Yes. Hunted.

1346
00:57:50,495 --> 00:57:55,054
But go back to 74.

1347
00:57:55,054 --> 00:57:56,674
Yeah. Okay.

1348
00:57:56,674 --> 00:58:01,879
And say, Okay, we've
added 2 million people.

1349
00:58:01,879 --> 00:58:04,669
Wow, if we kept

1350
00:58:04,669 --> 00:58:07,910
on that plan that
we were in 74.

1351
00:58:07,910 --> 00:58:11,419
Let's see. Your
commute time

1352
00:58:11,419 --> 00:58:15,409
from the Coast Range

1353
00:58:15,409 --> 00:58:19,055
to the tab for that
would be yeah.

1354
00:58:19,055 --> 00:58:22,550
And no urban growth,

1355
00:58:22,550 --> 00:58:24,770
but it's a good way
to look at what

1356
00:58:24,770 --> 00:58:25,970
would it be like
if we hadn't

1357
00:58:25,970 --> 00:58:27,110
had the program, right.

1358
00:58:27,110 --> 00:58:29,675
If you could
aerial photograph.

1359
00:58:29,675 --> 00:58:30,919
Here it is. Yeah.

1360
00:58:30,919 --> 00:58:33,020
And projected that day.

1361
00:58:33,020 --> 00:58:35,404
And they've done
some of that where

1362
00:58:35,404 --> 00:58:36,619
Washington comparing

1363
00:58:36,619 --> 00:58:39,140
growth in
Washington, Oregon.

1364
00:58:39,140 --> 00:58:41,450
I know Gary let
men who used

1365
00:58:41,450 --> 00:58:43,669
to work for the
Department of Forestry

1366
00:58:43,669 --> 00:58:46,235
doesn't ring a bell from

1367
00:58:46,235 --> 00:58:48,769
Pacific Northwest
range and

1368
00:58:48,769 --> 00:58:50,299
Experiment Station
as important.

1369
00:58:50,299 --> 00:58:52,490
And when I first
got to deal CD,

1370
00:58:52,490 --> 00:58:55,279
we helped put up
parameters for them to do

1371
00:58:55,279 --> 00:58:57,410
measuring and land-use
changes because

1372
00:58:57,410 --> 00:59:00,214
they had to do it
anyway for forest land.

1373
00:59:00,214 --> 00:59:03,364
For both be alignment
for US Forest Service.

1374
00:59:03,364 --> 00:59:05,359
And they've been
publishing studies for

1375
00:59:05,359 --> 00:59:10,910
years where they try to
compare lens changes,

1376
00:59:10,910 --> 00:59:13,835
basically a range
of dots and

1377
00:59:13,835 --> 00:59:15,560
see if the conversion of

1378
00:59:15,560 --> 00:59:17,630
the dots over time
it's happened.

1379
00:59:17,630 --> 00:59:20,300
And so it's been
pretty good.

1380
00:59:20,300 --> 00:59:22,609
I leave their own forest
to other use, yes.

1381
00:59:22,609 --> 00:59:24,439
Okay. And actually we

1382
00:59:24,439 --> 00:59:25,759
haven't that egg
and everything,

1383
00:59:25,759 --> 00:59:28,219
so they just basically
plotted their dots

1384
00:59:28,219 --> 00:59:29,419
on the ground
and then they

1385
00:59:29,419 --> 00:59:31,324
go back and look
at those dots.

1386
00:59:31,324 --> 00:59:33,319
After so many years.

1387
00:59:33,319 --> 00:59:35,600
And they've done that
Washington and we've

1388
00:59:35,600 --> 00:59:37,880
had comparative
studies where we've

1389
00:59:37,880 --> 00:59:39,365
done really well on a cart

1390
00:59:39,365 --> 00:59:41,419
counties kind of a vision

1391
00:59:41,419 --> 00:59:43,430
of what you would expect

1392
00:59:43,430 --> 00:59:44,510
Oregon to be if we

1393
00:59:44,510 --> 00:59:46,294
didn't have the
Land Use Program.

1394
00:59:46,294 --> 00:59:47,314
It's working on it.

1395
00:59:47,314 --> 00:59:48,349
Yeah.

1396
00:59:48,349 --> 00:59:50,194
Battleground.

1397
00:59:50,194 --> 00:59:51,394
But

1398
00:59:51,394 --> 00:59:53,105
In class County.

1399
00:59:53,105 --> 00:59:55,129
And you had I think it was

1400
00:59:55,129 --> 00:59:58,080
40 acres of BLM and may,

1401
00:59:58,300 --> 01:00:01,309
I don't know, maybe
transferred to see

1402
01:00:01,309 --> 01:00:04,084
forced us to say
that there was yeah.

1403
01:00:04,084 --> 01:00:06,230
Didn't have them
to look at.

1404
01:00:06,230 --> 01:00:07,909
Yeah, that'll work
as a resource.

1405
01:00:07,909 --> 01:00:09,679
You may they may
still have done this.

1406
01:00:09,679 --> 01:00:11,325
The plotting of
the dots though.

1407
01:00:11,325 --> 01:00:12,740
I don't remember
how I think

1408
01:00:12,740 --> 01:00:14,480
we can all Western Oregon.

1409
01:00:14,480 --> 01:00:15,560
Okay.

1410
01:00:15,560 --> 01:00:17,030
I needed probably some

1411
01:00:17,030 --> 01:00:17,934
of Eastern because they

1412
01:00:17,934 --> 01:00:20,839
had another charge
was very broad.

1413
01:00:20,839 --> 01:00:24,050
But anyway,

1414
01:00:24,050 --> 01:00:25,969
yeah, ought to pull some
of those out there.

1415
01:00:25,969 --> 01:00:29,669
They probably up here.
You'll see the office.

1416
01:00:30,560 --> 01:00:32,449
I guess the other
thing I was

1417
01:00:32,449 --> 01:00:33,590
going to add was

1418
01:00:33,590 --> 01:00:37,489
that and this is kind
of a pro or con thing.

1419
01:00:37,489 --> 01:00:39,499
The Land Use Program

1420
01:00:39,499 --> 01:00:41,000
I think is kind
of stabilized.

1421
01:00:41,000 --> 01:00:42,350
I don't get the sense.

1422
01:00:42,350 --> 01:00:43,850
I don't read us
in the paper

1423
01:00:43,850 --> 01:00:45,049
all the time by August.

1424
01:00:45,049 --> 01:00:46,189
Rarely, they're not at

1425
01:00:46,189 --> 01:00:47,269
the legislature all the

1426
01:00:47,269 --> 01:00:49,654
time like these to be.

1427
01:00:49,654 --> 01:00:51,739
But on the other hand,

1428
01:00:51,739 --> 01:00:53,360
we've got an influx
of I don't know

1429
01:00:53,360 --> 01:00:55,100
how many more
people in the state

1430
01:00:55,100 --> 01:00:57,569
that weren't here in 1974?

1431
01:00:57,569 --> 01:00:58,565
Don't know.

1432
01:00:58,565 --> 01:01:00,139
Like you were saying, they

1433
01:01:00,139 --> 01:01:02,014
have accepted the rules,

1434
01:01:02,014 --> 01:01:03,109
that they probably
don't know

1435
01:01:03,109 --> 01:01:04,594
any thing about them.

1436
01:01:04,594 --> 01:01:06,725
And I don't know if
that's good or bad.

1437
01:01:06,725 --> 01:01:10,204
Whether willing are
they in areas that are

1438
01:01:10,204 --> 01:01:12,020
most there were
no doubt in areas

1439
01:01:12,020 --> 01:01:14,884
that are
controversial, Yes.

1440
01:01:14,884 --> 01:01:17,434
In cities yet established

1441
01:01:17,434 --> 01:01:19,790
rural service
area or wherever.

1442
01:01:19,790 --> 01:01:22,729
And or they go to the
planning department,

1443
01:01:22,729 --> 01:01:24,499
they get a permit and
they just say these are

1444
01:01:24,499 --> 01:01:26,360
the roles you have
divide by now.

1445
01:01:26,360 --> 01:01:28,684
Well, nobody asked, well,

1446
01:01:28,684 --> 01:01:29,720
how did those rules get

1447
01:01:29,720 --> 01:01:31,160
their drugs, should
they change?

1448
01:01:31,160 --> 01:01:32,239
And so we're kind of in

1449
01:01:32,239 --> 01:01:34,639
the stabilized format.

1450
01:01:34,639 --> 01:01:36,200
I like I guess
that's good.

1451
01:01:36,200 --> 01:01:37,670
I mean, it's good in

1452
01:01:37,670 --> 01:01:39,770
the sense that as I
mentioned to you,

1453
01:01:39,770 --> 01:01:41,059
I work with fema and so

1454
01:01:41,059 --> 01:01:42,769
I'm around the other
parts of the country.

1455
01:01:42,769 --> 01:01:44,689
Yeah, I can I could see

1456
01:01:44,689 --> 01:01:47,509
the differences when
you go to other places.

1457
01:01:47,509 --> 01:01:50,059
Definitely can see
that while that

1458
01:01:50,059 --> 01:01:54,679
may maybe a guy too.

1459
01:01:54,679 --> 01:01:57,065
Overlay of 70 for

1460
01:01:57,065 --> 01:01:58,580
Washington County
are marrying

1461
01:01:58,580 --> 01:02:00,799
camera wherever and what

1462
01:02:00,799 --> 01:02:03,019
that would be in 2019.

1463
01:02:03,019 --> 01:02:06,079
But also, hey, we
already got these book.

1464
01:02:06,079 --> 01:02:08,270
We always use LA.

1465
01:02:08,270 --> 01:02:11,539
But the truth of
the matter is LA,

1466
01:02:11,539 --> 01:02:14,359
the city has
greater density

1467
01:02:14,359 --> 01:02:16,684
in the city apartment,
square mile?

1468
01:02:16,684 --> 01:02:17,449
Yeah.

1469
01:02:17,449 --> 01:02:18,679
Oh, okay.

1470
01:02:18,679 --> 01:02:20,585
Well, anyway, that's a
whole another story.

1471
01:02:20,585 --> 01:02:25,939
Yes. Okay. Let's see.
I'm on number 11.

1472
01:02:25,939 --> 01:02:26,615
Okay.

1473
01:02:26,615 --> 01:02:28,880
Are there any changes
or additions you'd like

1474
01:02:28,880 --> 01:02:31,264
to see though are planning
laws in the state,

1475
01:02:31,264 --> 01:02:33,320
white goals to
enable origins land.

1476
01:02:33,320 --> 01:02:34,220
He's probably in the face

1477
01:02:34,220 --> 01:02:36,570
the challenges
of the future.

1478
01:02:37,690 --> 01:02:39,604
Well, I didn't mentioned

1479
01:02:39,604 --> 01:02:42,575
earlier in terms that

1480
01:02:42,575 --> 01:02:47,779
80 goals that needed or

1481
01:02:47,779 --> 01:02:49,699
least important
goals are why

1482
01:02:49,699 --> 01:02:56,250
I think a greater
emphasis on

1483
01:02:57,880 --> 01:03:05,660
achieving sustainable
energy source

1484
01:03:05,660 --> 01:03:10,639
versus using
non-renewable translated.

1485
01:03:10,639 --> 01:03:12,814
It's so easy to
drive everywhere.

1486
01:03:12,814 --> 01:03:14,249
Yeah.

1487
01:03:16,180 --> 01:03:21,629
That one which also
impacts climate change,

1488
01:03:22,060 --> 01:03:25,579
things that the state
has tried in terms of

1489
01:03:25,579 --> 01:03:29,389
compact, livable
growth areas.

1490
01:03:29,389 --> 01:03:37,410
That particular goal
needs some teeth.

1491
01:03:38,140 --> 01:03:41,764
Secondly, there.

1492
01:03:41,764 --> 01:03:44,899
And if you were mentioning

1493
01:03:44,899 --> 01:03:47,270
how many people
have we added in

1494
01:03:47,270 --> 01:03:50,900
the last whatever
years, right.

1495
01:03:50,900 --> 01:03:52,879
Like when you and I, we're

1496
01:03:52,879 --> 01:03:55,234
probably in early
grade school,

1497
01:03:55,234 --> 01:03:56,629
population of warring with

1498
01:03:56,629 --> 01:04:01,565
1 million are
now 4.2 million.

1499
01:04:01,565 --> 01:04:04,624
And I have to

1500
01:04:04,624 --> 01:04:06,890
figure out what that
means per year.

1501
01:04:06,890 --> 01:04:11,570
But I think now
it's 1% a year.

1502
01:04:11,570 --> 01:04:14,430
That's 10 percent.

1503
01:04:15,310 --> 01:04:19,804
1% growth is Devils
every 70 years.

1504
01:04:19,804 --> 01:04:22,895
Yeah, Something
along that rate.

1505
01:04:22,895 --> 01:04:26,914
Well, do we need that?

1506
01:04:26,914 --> 01:04:29,000
Well, you've got realtors,

1507
01:04:29,000 --> 01:04:31,790
You got a lot of
economic folks.

1508
01:04:31,790 --> 01:04:35,119
We jobs folks need

1509
01:04:35,119 --> 01:04:36,815
to really take
a look at that.

1510
01:04:36,815 --> 01:04:39,499
The growth ethic, alright?

1511
01:04:39,499 --> 01:04:41,510
Carrying capacity is

1512
01:04:41,510 --> 01:04:43,534
a question, of
course it was.

1513
01:04:43,534 --> 01:04:46,820
That term is spread
throughout the goals and

1514
01:04:46,820 --> 01:04:49,729
yet I don't think it
was ever develop that.

1515
01:04:49,729 --> 01:04:51,170
Well, I mean,
even I know here

1516
01:04:51,170 --> 01:04:52,670
in the department
when I was here,

1517
01:04:52,670 --> 01:04:56,360
they had a hard time
getting our arms around.

1518
01:04:56,360 --> 01:04:58,400
What exactly
does that mean?

1519
01:04:58,400 --> 01:04:59,839
What standards
should emanate

1520
01:04:59,839 --> 01:05:01,490
from that concept?

1521
01:05:01,490 --> 01:05:04,290
But you look at water,

1522
01:05:04,570 --> 01:05:07,790
you look at
certain types of

1523
01:05:07,790 --> 01:05:09,559
weld transportations
dealing with it

1524
01:05:09,559 --> 01:05:10,730
now they're Portland's

1525
01:05:10,730 --> 01:05:12,500
having trouble with yes.

1526
01:05:12,500 --> 01:05:13,999
I'm going to
start charging

1527
01:05:13,999 --> 01:05:15,050
people on the free way,

1528
01:05:15,050 --> 01:05:16,459
maybe to come
back and forth at

1529
01:05:16,459 --> 01:05:17,809
different times
of the big chunks

1530
01:05:17,809 --> 01:05:19,144
of the world or
are you doing?

1531
01:05:19,144 --> 01:05:19,684
Oh, yeah.

1532
01:05:19,684 --> 01:05:23,010
Yeah. How many
many places are

1533
01:05:23,410 --> 01:05:25,429
So that's a cop, maybe

1534
01:05:25,429 --> 01:05:26,749
that's a concept
still that,

1535
01:05:26,749 --> 01:05:28,429
that's a good one to
get it developed.

1536
01:05:28,429 --> 01:05:29,509
They used it in

1537
01:05:29,509 --> 01:05:30,979
certain circumstances

1538
01:05:30,979 --> 01:05:33,050
when the closet
planes yeah.

1539
01:05:33,050 --> 01:05:35,389
Major groundwater okay.

1540
01:05:35,389 --> 01:05:36,829
Areas for a steady

1541
01:05:36,829 --> 01:05:39,979
then I could use

1542
01:05:39,979 --> 01:05:42,394
a conventional
septic system.

1543
01:05:42,394 --> 01:05:44,569
And it dissipates

1544
01:05:44,569 --> 01:05:48,049
difficultly enough
that he one acre

1545
01:05:48,049 --> 01:05:50,179
with Pamela, 70 k.

1546
01:05:50,179 --> 01:05:50,794
Yeah.

1547
01:05:50,794 --> 01:05:52,700
We also had either to

1548
01:05:52,700 --> 01:05:54,919
other rural
areas one where

1549
01:05:54,919 --> 01:05:58,819
the water system you
want one acre lot

1550
01:05:58,819 --> 01:06:02,944
well, plugging that out.

1551
01:06:02,944 --> 01:06:04,550
Can afford to him.

1552
01:06:04,550 --> 01:06:06,305
Wow. Yeah.

1553
01:06:06,305 --> 01:06:09,859
Only had one community,
call it the lake,

1554
01:06:09,859 --> 01:06:10,909
which had its own sewer

1555
01:06:10,909 --> 01:06:12,080
system which was put in

1556
01:06:12,080 --> 01:06:15,510
before the statewide
goals, etc, etc.

1557
01:06:17,170 --> 01:06:19,639
I think when I
left there were

1558
01:06:19,639 --> 01:06:21,980
two possible
hookups lead you

1559
01:06:21,980 --> 01:06:23,779
had folks that
wanted to add to

1560
01:06:23,779 --> 01:06:26,569
it but didn't want
to pay for sure.

1561
01:06:26,569 --> 01:06:30,034
So it's usable.

1562
01:06:30,034 --> 01:06:33,259
Yeah. That carrying
capacity and works. Yeah.

1563
01:06:33,259 --> 01:06:37,670
Because people think
that pocketbook yeah.

1564
01:06:37,670 --> 01:06:39,290
That's probably tell him I

1565
01:06:39,290 --> 01:06:40,399
think that
apartment wished

1566
01:06:40,399 --> 01:06:43,129
we been able to do more
with but it's hard.

1567
01:06:43,129 --> 01:06:44,360
I mean, overall trend

1568
01:06:44,360 --> 01:06:47,879
of you guys were
working or spaghetti.

1569
01:06:49,600 --> 01:06:53,119
Which pieces Dewey
cake and eat and which

1570
01:06:53,119 --> 01:06:54,649
one's your kid can't read

1571
01:06:54,649 --> 01:06:57,124
because that's too much.

1572
01:06:57,124 --> 01:06:58,984
Yeah.

1573
01:06:58,984 --> 01:07:02,090
Some organ land use
observers believe that

1574
01:07:02,090 --> 01:07:03,919
the approval of SB 100 was

1575
01:07:03,919 --> 01:07:05,060
possible because of the

1576
01:07:05,060 --> 01:07:06,740
time period in
which we live,

1577
01:07:06,740 --> 01:07:08,660
the 1970s and the

1578
01:07:08,660 --> 01:07:10,580
birth of the
environmental movement.

1579
01:07:10,580 --> 01:07:12,290
The enactment
occur because of

1580
01:07:12,290 --> 01:07:17,210
the converters
for key factors,

1581
01:07:17,210 --> 01:07:20,870
vision, leadership,
federal money, I'm Luck.

1582
01:07:20,870 --> 01:07:22,009
What do you think?

1583
01:07:22,009 --> 01:07:22,700
Do you agree or

1584
01:07:22,700 --> 01:07:24,410
disagree or do you
believe there were

1585
01:07:24,410 --> 01:07:26,389
other factors that were

1586
01:07:26,389 --> 01:07:28,955
critical to the
passage MSB 100,

1587
01:07:28,955 --> 01:07:32,509
the touchstone a
little before,

1588
01:07:32,509 --> 01:07:34,894
especially the leadership
are yeah, we do,

1589
01:07:34,894 --> 01:07:37,040
we do that call whatnot,

1590
01:07:37,040 --> 01:07:44,434
but helium is a
perfect time.

1591
01:07:44,434 --> 01:07:45,800
You had.

1592
01:07:45,800 --> 01:07:48,260
And he had a vision.

1593
01:07:48,260 --> 01:07:50,840
We had the oil embargo,

1594
01:07:50,840 --> 01:07:53,839
which made people think

1595
01:07:53,839 --> 01:07:58,625
about gas and oil
where we got it.

1596
01:07:58,625 --> 01:08:00,890
And what are
alternate guess.

1597
01:08:00,890 --> 01:08:02,060
I mean, I don't know that

1598
01:08:02,060 --> 01:08:03,049
we learned a lesson.

1599
01:08:03,049 --> 01:08:04,099
Well, we at
least we thought

1600
01:08:04,099 --> 01:08:05,749
more globally then got

1601
01:08:05,749 --> 01:08:08,629
side of our little
shells of daily life.

1602
01:08:08,629 --> 01:08:12,994
I know I didn't
care to drag

1603
01:08:12,994 --> 01:08:15,590
the little Volkswagen
Bug and sit

1604
01:08:15,590 --> 01:08:16,759
half a block down and

1605
01:08:16,759 --> 01:08:18,269
why everybody
was filling up.

1606
01:08:18,269 --> 01:08:20,284
So walk and bike?

1607
01:08:20,284 --> 01:08:21,689
Yeah.

1608
01:08:22,390 --> 01:08:25,550
So maybe that's
the luck part.

1609
01:08:25,550 --> 01:08:30,544
Yeah. But, you know,
federal funding.

1610
01:08:30,544 --> 01:08:32,030
Absolutely.

1611
01:08:32,030 --> 01:08:33,934
Because as you know,

1612
01:08:33,934 --> 01:08:36,425
department ID benefited by

1613
01:08:36,425 --> 01:08:39,664
planning grants
and whatnot. Okay.

1614
01:08:39,664 --> 01:08:42,049
Local government
could not.

1615
01:08:42,049 --> 01:08:43,789
Especially the
cups, posters

1616
01:08:43,789 --> 01:08:45,364
done, pebble brands?

1617
01:08:45,364 --> 01:08:46,970
Yes. Well, they're very

1618
01:08:46,970 --> 01:08:48,770
much so as the
department I mean,

1619
01:08:48,770 --> 01:08:51,709
I know leadership you've

1620
01:08:51,709 --> 01:08:53,644
touched on certainly
was critical.

1621
01:08:53,644 --> 01:08:57,005
We are really lucky
with not only

1622
01:08:57,005 --> 01:09:00,559
having Governor
McCall take the lead,

1623
01:09:00,559 --> 01:09:02,359
we've been really
successful with

1624
01:09:02,359 --> 01:09:05,089
the governors that
followed bys wrong.

1625
01:09:05,089 --> 01:09:06,830
Vic a TIA wasn't

1626
01:09:06,830 --> 01:09:08,389
a real supporter
of the program,

1627
01:09:08,389 --> 01:09:10,880
but didn't want to damage
the program either.

1628
01:09:10,880 --> 01:09:15,845
He was just outstanding
individual person.

1629
01:09:15,845 --> 01:09:17,030
Yeah.

1630
01:09:17,030 --> 01:09:21,920
And the all the governors,
George Roberts,

1631
01:09:21,920 --> 01:09:23,674
him they were kids,

1632
01:09:23,674 --> 01:09:25,834
are supportive of pizza.

1633
01:09:25,834 --> 01:09:27,019
Yeah.

1634
01:09:27,019 --> 01:09:28,505
Douglas Gabby.

1635
01:09:28,505 --> 01:09:28,985
Yeah.

1636
01:09:28,985 --> 01:09:31,850
It's very hard to
get more rural.

1637
01:09:31,850 --> 01:09:34,160
What the issue is
the Douglas County?

1638
01:09:34,160 --> 01:09:38,700
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So yes.

1639
01:09:40,570 --> 01:09:43,160
There's I'll just
point out there's

1640
01:09:43,160 --> 01:09:46,924
a video interview,
Ted howling.

1641
01:09:46,924 --> 01:09:48,020
Okay.

1642
01:09:48,020 --> 01:09:52,190
I'll have to share
with you were in fact,

1643
01:09:52,190 --> 01:09:54,545
I'm trying to get it
on the oral history.

1644
01:09:54,545 --> 01:09:57,620
It's absolutely under
the legislature.

1645
01:09:57,620 --> 01:09:59,465
Oregon legislature has

1646
01:09:59,465 --> 01:10:02,450
Program interviews people.

1647
01:10:02,450 --> 01:10:04,490
But you want to
see it? It's okay.

1648
01:10:04,490 --> 01:10:06,589
It's a real good name.

1649
01:10:06,589 --> 01:10:08,960
Yeah. He's yeah,
that one path.

1650
01:10:08,960 --> 01:10:10,175
He had Hector Macpherson?

1651
01:10:10,175 --> 01:10:10,924
Yes.

1652
01:10:10,924 --> 01:10:13,309
I read Hector being

1653
01:10:13,309 --> 01:10:15,779
the diplomatic
one tethers.

1654
01:10:16,000 --> 01:10:18,860
And their e-mail
the day, yes.

1655
01:10:18,860 --> 01:10:19,430
Yeah.

1656
01:10:19,430 --> 01:10:20,359
Yeah.

1657
01:10:20,359 --> 01:10:21,929
Yeah.

1658
01:10:23,470 --> 01:10:27,469
Okay. So the companion
question to that is,

1659
01:10:27,469 --> 01:10:29,149
do you think it
possible that LSB

1660
01:10:29,149 --> 01:10:30,739
101 would be approved

1661
01:10:30,739 --> 01:10:32,974
today by the Oregon
legislature?

1662
01:10:32,974 --> 01:10:33,710
No.

1663
01:10:33,710 --> 01:10:33,980
No.

1664
01:10:33,980 --> 01:10:39,540
And no way to polarized.

1665
01:10:46,030 --> 01:10:48,814
Not the leadership
mouth division.

1666
01:10:48,814 --> 01:10:52,234
While I'm thinking,
I'm thinking, Yeah.

1667
01:10:52,234 --> 01:10:55,999
Do we really have
moderate folks?

1668
01:10:55,999 --> 01:10:59,015
I mean, Republicans were

1669
01:10:59,015 --> 01:11:02,044
pretty much at my memory.

1670
01:11:02,044 --> 01:11:02,960
Lag.

1671
01:11:02,960 --> 01:11:05,749
Senate Bill 100,
Macpherson.

1672
01:11:05,749 --> 01:11:06,860
Yeah.

1673
01:11:06,860 --> 01:11:10,850
Farmers,
conservative side.

1674
01:11:10,850 --> 01:11:13,639
Lad saw the need for it.

1675
01:11:13,639 --> 01:11:16,070
I don't see much
moderation here.

1676
01:11:16,070 --> 01:11:18,530
I see that
polarization and

1677
01:11:18,530 --> 01:11:21,590
ideas and I
think that what

1678
01:11:21,590 --> 01:11:23,690
was the bill that

1679
01:11:23,690 --> 01:11:25,579
certain legislators
went to

1680
01:11:25,579 --> 01:11:26,660
a different state because

1681
01:11:26,660 --> 01:11:28,145
they weren't going
to vote on it.

1682
01:11:28,145 --> 01:11:29,569
Oh, yeah.

1683
01:11:29,569 --> 01:11:30,289
Yeah.

1684
01:11:30,289 --> 01:11:32,495
Climate change or
that carbon tax.

1685
01:11:32,495 --> 01:11:34,984
Carbon test them by name.

1686
01:11:34,984 --> 01:11:36,469
And we've got issues.

1687
01:11:36,469 --> 01:11:37,670
Yeah. Yeah.

1688
01:11:37,670 --> 01:11:42,200
And I'll be darned
if I name that.

1689
01:11:42,200 --> 01:11:44,690
I'll be darned
if I'm going

1690
01:11:44,690 --> 01:11:49,895
to do what's
required of me,

1691
01:11:49,895 --> 01:11:51,245
I'm going to run
out of state.

1692
01:11:51,245 --> 01:11:53,435
Yeah. There I won't go

1693
01:11:53,435 --> 01:11:56,450
much for your timeshare.

1694
01:11:56,450 --> 01:11:57,500
The Democrats have done

1695
01:11:57,500 --> 01:11:59,030
the same thing in a layer,

1696
01:11:59,030 --> 01:12:02,690
so on certain issues or

1697
01:12:02,690 --> 01:12:07,159
whatever, but there okay.

1698
01:12:07,159 --> 01:12:08,569
Is the state
lend-lease program

1699
01:12:08,569 --> 01:12:09,829
equipped to address and

1700
01:12:09,829 --> 01:12:12,724
properly respond to
major changes in Oregon.

1701
01:12:12,724 --> 01:12:15,755
We talked a little
bit about population,

1702
01:12:15,755 --> 01:12:18,139
climate change,

1703
01:12:18,139 --> 01:12:21,239
affordable housing
or issues still.

1704
01:12:21,250 --> 01:12:24,410
And we're going to be,

1705
01:12:24,410 --> 01:12:27,185
there'll be an
influx of population

1706
01:12:27,185 --> 01:12:29,240
here again in the
next 30 to 40 years.

1707
01:12:29,240 --> 01:12:30,410
Do you think we're
ready for it?

1708
01:12:30,410 --> 01:12:34,354
Because the program well,

1709
01:12:34,354 --> 01:12:35,929
the items I put here,

1710
01:12:35,929 --> 01:12:39,170
You population growth
we talked about,

1711
01:12:39,170 --> 01:12:41,974
I think was about 11.

1712
01:12:41,974 --> 01:12:45,650
Climate change
me to broadly,

1713
01:12:45,650 --> 01:12:47,869
I took it on.

1714
01:12:47,869 --> 01:12:50,929
But that still points to

1715
01:12:50,929 --> 01:12:57,199
cheap energy source
and carbon aspect.

1716
01:12:57,199 --> 01:12:58,130
How, how's that going to

1717
01:12:58,130 --> 01:13:00,289
affect clouds of county?

1718
01:13:00,289 --> 01:13:03,329
See rice going
to be an issue?

1719
01:13:03,520 --> 01:13:05,344
Yes.

1720
01:13:05,344 --> 01:13:07,205
We know seesaw.
I know that.

1721
01:13:07,205 --> 01:13:08,915
And then the
Cascadia course,

1722
01:13:08,915 --> 01:13:11,359
your your county
particularly

1723
01:13:11,359 --> 01:13:12,709
might be at the harvester.

1724
01:13:12,709 --> 01:13:14,250
Certainly.

1725
01:13:16,030 --> 01:13:18,170
Well, you have a lot of

1726
01:13:18,170 --> 01:13:20,390
low lying
population areas.

1727
01:13:20,390 --> 01:13:25,070
Well, one of my field
trips that I took at

1728
01:13:25,070 --> 01:13:28,874
one time near near

1729
01:13:28,874 --> 01:13:32,434
tar me charts and
children County.

1730
01:13:32,434 --> 01:13:35,825
And it may have

1731
01:13:35,825 --> 01:13:38,240
I don't I don't remember
who conducted it,

1732
01:13:38,240 --> 01:13:41,315
but we went to the beach.

1733
01:13:41,315 --> 01:13:45,694
And the guy says,
There's three feet.

1734
01:13:45,694 --> 01:13:52,205
In 1700, that was
three feet lower.

1735
01:13:52,205 --> 01:13:55,624
And on some January date,

1736
01:13:55,624 --> 01:14:00,859
the Japanese wrote down

1737
01:14:00,859 --> 01:14:03,004
that they had a
major earthquake,

1738
01:14:03,004 --> 01:14:05,209
tsunami or that there

1739
01:14:05,209 --> 01:14:07,204
was a major earthquake
and tsunami.

1740
01:14:07,204 --> 01:14:08,584
Quake hit Japan.

1741
01:14:08,584 --> 01:14:09,815
Yeah.

1742
01:14:09,815 --> 01:14:12,619
It hit there, but here,

1743
01:14:12,619 --> 01:14:15,119
yeah, the land dropped.

1744
01:14:15,250 --> 01:14:18,635
Or rows three
feet. Excuse me.

1745
01:14:18,635 --> 01:14:22,909
So you could see what
was there in 1700?

1746
01:14:22,909 --> 01:14:24,270
Yeah.

1747
01:14:25,930 --> 01:14:29,525
So the erosion, climate

1748
01:14:29,525 --> 01:14:33,785
change that the
earthquake.

1749
01:14:33,785 --> 01:14:37,729
How do you plan
for an event

1750
01:14:37,729 --> 01:14:42,539
that's 300 in 19 years?

1751
01:14:43,360 --> 01:14:47,479
I mean, you how do you

1752
01:14:47,479 --> 01:14:52,069
assess that for
the tank farm

1753
01:14:52,069 --> 01:14:54,994
in North Portland where

1754
01:14:54,994 --> 01:15:00,049
the number 1 virtually
only or the tank.

1755
01:15:00,049 --> 01:15:01,969
So I have 90 watts
antiquark fuel?

1756
01:15:01,969 --> 01:15:02,599
Yes.

1757
01:15:02,599 --> 01:15:05,089
Is this adored? And
the pipeline is

1758
01:15:05,089 --> 01:15:08,314
there and not in
a floodplain,

1759
01:15:08,314 --> 01:15:11,030
but some liquefied soils,

1760
01:15:11,030 --> 01:15:13,579
of course. Yes, exactly.

1761
01:15:13,579 --> 01:15:16,970
Yeah. I mean, I scare

1762
01:15:16,970 --> 01:15:21,839
everybody and say I move
to Sandy or you go.

1763
01:15:23,710 --> 01:15:26,939
I don't know the answer.

1764
01:15:29,740 --> 01:15:32,270
Yeah. Well, that
may be more of

1765
01:15:32,270 --> 01:15:35,330
that determinant
determinant or

1766
01:15:35,330 --> 01:15:37,670
even population coming
into the state.

1767
01:15:37,670 --> 01:15:40,204
Well, we're going to
have driverless cars.

1768
01:15:40,204 --> 01:15:42,109
Yeah. Are you talking

1769
01:15:42,109 --> 01:15:45,589
about individual
flying machines?

1770
01:15:45,589 --> 01:15:49,939
I mean, is is

1771
01:15:49,939 --> 01:15:56,570
o or a Portland Department
of Transportation

1772
01:15:56,570 --> 01:15:59,399
or say alum or whatever.

1773
01:15:59,650 --> 01:16:03,620
I mean, we joke around
but where where is

1774
01:16:03,620 --> 01:16:05,330
technology going to take

1775
01:16:05,330 --> 01:16:07,969
us in that direction?

1776
01:16:07,969 --> 01:16:10,459
And age old question,

1777
01:16:10,459 --> 01:16:12,639
have you, how do you
plan for the unexpected?

1778
01:16:12,639 --> 01:16:16,339
Yeah. Yeah. Just heard

1779
01:16:16,339 --> 01:16:21,080
the I go to some
type I'm here,

1780
01:16:21,080 --> 01:16:23,780
I go to the OS path
between switches or you

1781
01:16:23,780 --> 01:16:25,085
can save the seismic

1782
01:16:25,085 --> 01:16:26,659
policy advisory committee.

1783
01:16:26,659 --> 01:16:28,009
Okay.

1784
01:16:28,009 --> 01:16:30,440
And one of the meetings

1785
01:16:30,440 --> 01:16:33,020
they talked about science

1786
01:16:33,020 --> 01:16:37,550
injecting something
in the underneath

1787
01:16:37,550 --> 01:16:39,799
the tanks of actually

1788
01:16:39,799 --> 01:16:42,364
having to take away
some in the paper.

1789
01:16:42,364 --> 01:16:43,010
Okay. Yes.

1790
01:16:43,010 --> 01:16:43,774
Okay.

1791
01:16:43,774 --> 01:16:44,960
Yeah. News blurb,

1792
01:16:44,960 --> 01:16:45,980
they're not they're
writing was

1793
01:16:45,980 --> 01:16:47,209
something that
they can actually

1794
01:16:47,209 --> 01:16:49,324
inject to reduce
the water,

1795
01:16:49,324 --> 01:16:51,514
take it out
unstabilized soil,

1796
01:16:51,514 --> 01:16:54,590
which might be the best
solution because I,

1797
01:16:54,590 --> 01:16:56,300
my understanding
is a lot of

1798
01:16:56,300 --> 01:16:57,500
the oil companies that

1799
01:16:57,500 --> 01:16:59,120
own those aren't
they don't,

1800
01:16:59,120 --> 01:17:01,459
they haven't been
engaging in this at all.

1801
01:17:01,459 --> 01:17:03,365
It's never been a
problem for them.

1802
01:17:03,365 --> 01:17:04,805
And of course,
their back east,

1803
01:17:04,805 --> 01:17:06,980
they don't they don't
think about it in

1804
01:17:06,980 --> 01:17:09,424
the same terms we
do or Houston.

1805
01:17:09,424 --> 01:17:10,940
So yeah.

1806
01:17:10,940 --> 01:17:14,749
Anyway, solving the
problem ourselves with

1807
01:17:14,749 --> 01:17:16,729
help important
state science might

1808
01:17:16,729 --> 01:17:20,089
be a better solution,
more proactive.

1809
01:17:20,089 --> 01:17:22,130
Well, I'm sorry, I'm

1810
01:17:22,130 --> 01:17:25,610
going a different belief.

1811
01:17:25,610 --> 01:17:28,430
See what can I come up and

1812
01:17:28,430 --> 01:17:30,169
environmentally that stuff

1813
01:17:30,169 --> 01:17:31,445
you're pumping in there?

1814
01:17:31,445 --> 01:17:31,835
Yeah.

1815
01:17:31,835 --> 01:17:34,250
It's going to pollute
the link into

1816
01:17:34,250 --> 01:17:37,100
the river and I'd be like

1817
01:17:37,100 --> 01:17:39,575
long way and
there's going to be

1818
01:17:39,575 --> 01:17:44,465
a huge outcry from all
before we get there.

1819
01:17:44,465 --> 01:17:47,104
But they're
thinking, yeah,

1820
01:17:47,104 --> 01:17:49,949
yeah, they're looking
for a solution.

1821
01:17:53,500 --> 01:17:56,400
Okay, Let's see.

1822
01:17:56,620 --> 01:17:59,150
What is your view about

1823
01:17:59,150 --> 01:18:01,399
the future of Oregon's
Land Use Program.

1824
01:18:01,399 --> 01:18:02,180
Do you believe we're going

1825
01:18:02,180 --> 01:18:03,079
to use have accepted

1826
01:18:03,079 --> 01:18:04,850
the states claim
this program.

1827
01:18:04,850 --> 01:18:06,350
I will continue
buying cities and

1828
01:18:06,350 --> 01:18:08,119
counties to plan for

1829
01:18:08,119 --> 01:18:09,620
growth and
protect resources

1830
01:18:09,620 --> 01:18:10,940
for the comprehensive
planning and

1831
01:18:10,940 --> 01:18:12,979
zoning laws like they have

1832
01:18:12,979 --> 01:18:16,139
for the last 45 years.

1833
01:18:16,630 --> 01:18:19,550
Well, we kind of done

1834
01:18:19,550 --> 01:18:21,800
most of that all the way

1835
01:18:21,800 --> 01:18:25,100
from 100-year plans to

1836
01:18:25,100 --> 01:18:29,040
people or take
it for granted.

1837
01:18:29,110 --> 01:18:32,390
Except when they
want to change it,

1838
01:18:32,390 --> 01:18:34,025
when it affects
them personally,

1839
01:18:34,025 --> 01:18:35,569
may want to change

1840
01:18:35,569 --> 01:18:38,000
that planning and
zoning and then if

1841
01:18:38,000 --> 01:18:40,955
there's big
bureaucratic credit,

1842
01:18:40,955 --> 01:18:44,280
expensive process, yeah.

1843
01:18:45,460 --> 01:18:48,470
So it's going to

1844
01:18:48,470 --> 01:18:50,390
be here is going
to continue.

1845
01:18:50,390 --> 01:18:52,174
And thank goodness.

1846
01:18:52,174 --> 01:18:53,165
Yeah.

1847
01:18:53,165 --> 01:18:54,334
Good.

1848
01:18:54,334 --> 01:18:56,210
Okay. Last question.

1849
01:18:56,210 --> 01:18:57,709
If you were again
involved in

1850
01:18:57,709 --> 01:18:59,974
such an undertaking
and had the chance to

1851
01:18:59,974 --> 01:19:01,489
influence the
development of

1852
01:19:01,489 --> 01:19:02,389
a new comprehensive

1853
01:19:02,389 --> 01:19:04,069
land use planning program.

1854
01:19:04,069 --> 01:19:05,690
What lessons learned from

1855
01:19:05,690 --> 01:19:07,669
Oregon's approach
would you borrow?

1856
01:19:07,669 --> 01:19:08,929
And what aspects of

1857
01:19:08,929 --> 01:19:12,149
Oregon's Land Use
Program might you avoid?

1858
01:19:14,710 --> 01:19:22,109
Well, our leaders
projected a need,

1859
01:19:22,600 --> 01:19:29,224
saw issue, sprawl,
losing and forest land.

1860
01:19:29,224 --> 01:19:35,824
So that's where he
got his start with

1861
01:19:35,824 --> 01:19:40,249
the information
base to support

1862
01:19:40,249 --> 01:19:44,795
that need not just we
need this and I mean,

1863
01:19:44,795 --> 01:19:47,839
like climate change,
yeah, whatever.

1864
01:19:47,839 --> 01:19:50,179
Or I like 400 parts

1865
01:19:50,179 --> 01:19:52,625
per million carbon
in the air.

1866
01:19:52,625 --> 01:19:57,724
950 were 200 or 250.

1867
01:19:57,724 --> 01:20:00,709
Well, people are
disagreeing about

1868
01:20:00,709 --> 01:20:04,710
VM tab in them for
our units, whatever.

1869
01:20:08,110 --> 01:20:12,709
Somebody's gotta
come forward and

1870
01:20:12,709 --> 01:20:17,930
take that info and
either examples

1871
01:20:17,930 --> 01:20:25,340
here of where that
issue is paramount and

1872
01:20:25,340 --> 01:20:29,434
cause concerns that we've

1873
01:20:29,434 --> 01:20:34,354
lost species because
at that yeah,

1874
01:20:34,354 --> 01:20:37,085
you could measure their
hand Arctic ice or

1875
01:20:37,085 --> 01:20:43,259
and rising sea
level and whatnot.

1876
01:20:44,260 --> 01:20:50,345
But you need an issue
to get people around,

1877
01:20:50,345 --> 01:20:53,300
get the public's attention,
public attention.

1878
01:20:53,300 --> 01:20:56,540
And we talked about
the knowledge base

1879
01:20:56,540 --> 01:21:00,480
and disseminating info.

1880
01:21:01,060 --> 01:21:03,559
I just read
yesterday about

1881
01:21:03,559 --> 01:21:07,400
a tribe up in Alaska that

1882
01:21:07,400 --> 01:21:09,335
have have to move

1883
01:21:09,335 --> 01:21:13,429
because the flooding
now the toners thawed.

1884
01:21:13,429 --> 01:21:17,104
And they'd been up
there for centuries.

1885
01:21:17,104 --> 01:21:18,815
Nomadic and they're

1886
01:21:18,815 --> 01:21:21,605
probably tens
of centuries.

1887
01:21:21,605 --> 01:21:23,209
Hundreds.

1888
01:21:23,209 --> 01:21:25,129
And I actually,
I did work with

1889
01:21:25,129 --> 01:21:27,214
fema up there one summer.

1890
01:21:27,214 --> 01:21:30,335
And the reason
that they had

1891
01:21:30,335 --> 01:21:32,270
stabilized living areas

1892
01:21:32,270 --> 01:21:34,580
was because school
requirement.

1893
01:21:34,580 --> 01:21:36,889
They had to build
schools for their kids.

1894
01:21:36,889 --> 01:21:38,719
And so they built houses

1895
01:21:38,719 --> 01:21:40,669
and things around school.

1896
01:21:40,669 --> 01:21:43,700
And now the one
Belege literally is.

1897
01:21:43,700 --> 01:21:46,355
This is sinking.

1898
01:21:46,355 --> 01:21:48,409
I mean, everything
is thought out

1899
01:21:48,409 --> 01:21:50,570
and the area that

1900
01:21:50,570 --> 01:21:51,934
they're used and
he can't cry.

1901
01:21:51,934 --> 01:21:52,999
Yeah, it's hard to drive

1902
01:21:52,999 --> 01:21:54,949
a MAC exact basically

1903
01:21:54,949 --> 01:21:57,139
mark and so they've
got a movement.

1904
01:21:57,139 --> 01:21:58,820
There's your I mean,

1905
01:21:58,820 --> 01:22:00,799
there's the example
of these locally.

1906
01:22:00,799 --> 01:22:03,100
They got Bangladesh,
you got yeah,

1907
01:22:03,100 --> 01:22:06,035
uncivic islands
counter known

1908
01:22:06,035 --> 01:22:07,894
for that, but yeah.

1909
01:22:07,894 --> 01:22:11,720
What's the education
occurring on it?

1910
01:22:11,720 --> 01:22:15,320
I mean, if you want
to look at well,

1911
01:22:15,320 --> 01:22:16,999
then you have
this information

1912
01:22:16,999 --> 01:22:18,965
now which is the
bat before it

1913
01:22:18,965 --> 01:22:21,289
wasn't usually if you

1914
01:22:21,289 --> 01:22:22,370
looked at an
issue and there

1915
01:22:22,370 --> 01:22:23,809
wasn't an aside to

1916
01:22:23,809 --> 01:22:26,479
totally trying
to discredit.

1917
01:22:26,479 --> 01:22:30,365
Wow, we had some but
had a major scientific.

1918
01:22:30,365 --> 01:22:32,420
Now I'm not trying to
claim that it is now.

1919
01:22:32,420 --> 01:22:33,965
Yes, it's harder to

1920
01:22:33,965 --> 01:22:35,990
maybe that's the
answer to the question

1921
01:22:35,990 --> 01:22:37,610
to be so much harder

1922
01:22:37,610 --> 01:22:40,594
to get something started.

1923
01:22:40,594 --> 01:22:44,104
Because of the
energy to do,

1924
01:22:44,104 --> 01:22:46,265
to move a program forward,

1925
01:22:46,265 --> 01:22:48,469
to do what everybody views

1926
01:22:48,469 --> 01:22:51,304
as something really
paramount to everybody.

1927
01:22:51,304 --> 01:22:54,650
And yet, not
everybody will,

1928
01:22:54,650 --> 01:22:57,455
there'll be an
antithesis, right?

1929
01:22:57,455 --> 01:22:59,735
Force that will kinda
just go ask for

1930
01:22:59,735 --> 01:23:01,549
resources that
we didn't have

1931
01:23:01,549 --> 01:23:03,349
back bam, like
the Internet.

1932
01:23:03,349 --> 01:23:04,534
Yes.

1933
01:23:04,534 --> 01:23:08,299
I I got on
Facebook but it is

1934
01:23:08,299 --> 01:23:13,039
is a way of information
dissemination.

1935
01:23:13,039 --> 01:23:14,885
Yes. Both ways, yes.

1936
01:23:14,885 --> 01:23:17,580
Credited, discredited.

1937
01:23:18,160 --> 01:23:21,709
But there are some
tools that can help,

1938
01:23:21,709 --> 01:23:26,375
but it up bigger task,

1939
01:23:26,375 --> 01:23:28,429
my, you know, I know
I'm going to live to

1940
01:23:28,429 --> 01:23:30,710
be actually where I live.

1941
01:23:30,710 --> 01:23:32,599
We have a guy
that's a 108.

1942
01:23:32,599 --> 01:23:33,665
Oh, wow.

1943
01:23:33,665 --> 01:23:36,184
Is the oldest guy
in Oregon for sure.

1944
01:23:36,184 --> 01:23:39,515
And 15th and the
US supposedly.

1945
01:23:39,515 --> 01:23:43,429
And I figured it out.

1946
01:23:43,429 --> 01:23:45,964
If I live to be
a 100 and age,

1947
01:23:45,964 --> 01:23:49,469
I still have 1
third of my life.

1948
01:23:49,690 --> 01:23:52,099
So maybe I should start

1949
01:23:52,099 --> 01:23:54,155
standing up an issue the

1950
01:23:54,155 --> 01:23:56,659
more go back and

1951
01:23:56,659 --> 01:23:59,564
be another voice
that you're here.

1952
01:23:59,564 --> 01:24:00,604
Why?

1953
01:24:00,604 --> 01:24:02,760
I've mentioned Iraq.

1954
01:24:05,560 --> 01:24:08,720
Well, and you think I

1955
01:24:08,720 --> 01:24:10,910
want to close with
just that back

1956
01:24:10,910 --> 01:24:16,219
to this and the
traffic aspect

1957
01:24:16,219 --> 01:24:18,244
that mean that their
answers there.

1958
01:24:18,244 --> 01:24:19,145
Yeah.

1959
01:24:19,145 --> 01:24:22,499
I mean, Holland, I mean,

1960
01:24:22,870 --> 01:24:26,240
we have issues with equity

1961
01:24:26,240 --> 01:24:28,909
in terms as congestion,

1962
01:24:28,909 --> 01:24:32,570
taxing, but there
are solutions.

1963
01:24:32,570 --> 01:24:38,660
I got a subsidized
folks that can't

1964
01:24:38,660 --> 01:24:42,920
afford driving to work

1965
01:24:42,920 --> 01:24:45,889
because of the
congestion tax.

1966
01:24:45,889 --> 01:24:48,000
Okay.

1967
01:24:52,000 --> 01:24:54,859
Something that's
probably a nap and

1968
01:24:54,859 --> 01:24:57,110
that democracy

1969
01:24:57,110 --> 01:25:04,624
is somehow forcing folks

1970
01:25:04,624 --> 01:25:06,469
to live near where
they weren't.

1971
01:25:06,469 --> 01:25:13,655
Yeah, so kind of
program incentives,

1972
01:25:13,655 --> 01:25:15,515
the way we would call it.

1973
01:25:15,515 --> 01:25:17,719
Well, one of
the last things

1974
01:25:17,719 --> 01:25:19,309
that happened with

1975
01:25:19,309 --> 01:25:21,320
the lens program was

1976
01:25:21,320 --> 01:25:23,780
trying to get
mixed use active.

1977
01:25:23,780 --> 01:25:26,075
Yes. I think it

1978
01:25:26,075 --> 01:25:27,919
was fairly successful
in many places.

1979
01:25:27,919 --> 01:25:29,300
Many neighborhoods are

1980
01:25:29,300 --> 01:25:31,310
much more mixed-use
than they used to be.

1981
01:25:31,310 --> 01:25:33,229
So I I agree.

1982
01:25:33,229 --> 01:25:35,675
Work government
in Portland

1983
01:25:35,675 --> 01:25:40,640
and around
transit stations

1984
01:25:40,640 --> 01:25:44,070
and right on but again,

1985
01:25:46,630 --> 01:25:50,044
funding assisting
that down.

1986
01:25:50,044 --> 01:25:54,949
But oh, well, folks,

1987
01:25:54,949 --> 01:25:56,329
it can already
a forehead are

1988
01:25:56,329 --> 01:25:58,579
going to move there, etc.

1989
01:25:58,579 --> 01:26:00,275
I don't have an answer to

1990
01:26:00,275 --> 01:26:02,975
how equity part issues

1991
01:26:02,975 --> 01:26:04,940
here and really
talk much about it,

1992
01:26:04,940 --> 01:26:08,600
but it's tantamount to

1993
01:26:08,600 --> 01:26:11,209
know that and requiring

1994
01:26:11,209 --> 01:26:12,709
housing for makes uses,

1995
01:26:12,709 --> 01:26:17,494
whether it's mobile
homes or whatnot.

1996
01:26:17,494 --> 01:26:19,564
Still got a ways to go.

1997
01:26:19,564 --> 01:26:22,445
Yeah, tough being
unpopular state.

1998
01:26:22,445 --> 01:26:24,874
When jazz got
really up there,

1999
01:26:24,874 --> 01:26:27,049
the valley top five,

2000
01:26:27,049 --> 01:26:29,100
move because of
aids or whatever,

2001
01:26:29,100 --> 01:26:31,550
again, somewhere in there.

2002
01:26:31,550 --> 01:26:34,624
But that raises the
housing prices too.

2003
01:26:34,624 --> 01:26:37,684
When you sell, I guess.

2004
01:26:37,684 --> 01:26:38,899
Thanks.

2005
01:26:38,899 --> 01:26:41,045
Tried turn around and buy.

2006
01:26:41,045 --> 01:26:42,440
Yeah.

2007
01:26:42,440 --> 01:26:44,630
We've all been
there. Yeah.

2008
01:26:44,630 --> 01:26:45,620
Okay.

2009
01:26:45,620 --> 01:26:47,570
Well, I'll finish
up here on

2010
01:26:47,570 --> 01:26:49,640
behalf of Portland
State University and

2011
01:26:49,640 --> 01:26:50,854
those of us involved in

2012
01:26:50,854 --> 01:26:52,160
oral history project of

2013
01:26:52,160 --> 01:26:54,094
Oregon flames
planning program.

2014
01:26:54,094 --> 01:26:56,584
I'd like to thank
you for allowing me.

2015
01:26:56,584 --> 01:26:59,660
Well, thank you and have
been an honor to be

2016
01:26:59,660 --> 01:27:02,479
asked to do this
enough clarity.

2017
01:27:02,479 --> 01:27:04,249
We're certainly
at the forefront

2018
01:27:04,249 --> 01:27:06,690
of planning and Oregon.

2019
01:27:07,450 --> 01:27:09,689
Yes.