1
00:00:04,110 --> 00:00:08,200
Familiar, the restrooms,
vending machines,

2
00:00:08,200 --> 00:00:12,320
phone or across
way over there?

3
00:00:18,630 --> 00:00:22,940
Over there out there
on the outside.

4
00:00:23,130 --> 00:00:26,094
Working on that's
where it is.

5
00:00:26,094 --> 00:00:28,689
Or Commissioners.

6
00:00:28,689 --> 00:00:32,230
This gizmo here right
in front of you.

7
00:00:32,230 --> 00:00:34,509
And Kara reminds me

8
00:00:34,509 --> 00:00:37,794
that don't rustle
papers in front of it,

9
00:00:37,794 --> 00:00:39,580
because that is
what goes out to

10
00:00:39,580 --> 00:00:42,250
the people in the audience

11
00:00:42,250 --> 00:00:43,079
and all their games.

12
00:00:43,079 --> 00:00:48,379
Rustling papers,
rustle, microphone,

13
00:00:48,379 --> 00:00:49,580
the microphone on and

14
00:00:49,580 --> 00:00:50,870
off that little
switch and proud

15
00:00:50,870 --> 00:00:58,350
of your comes time.

16
00:00:59,530 --> 00:01:05,870
First agenda item
we have is for

17
00:01:05,870 --> 00:01:08,059
anybody who
wishes to address

18
00:01:08,059 --> 00:01:09,649
the commission on
an item that's

19
00:01:09,649 --> 00:01:11,660
not otherwise
on our agenda.

20
00:01:11,660 --> 00:01:16,440
Is there anybody okay.

21
00:01:16,930 --> 00:01:19,790
Let's go then
to the minutes

22
00:01:19,790 --> 00:01:21,979
of the last meeting.

23
00:01:21,979 --> 00:01:24,290
Is there a motion to
approve those minutes?

24
00:01:24,290 --> 00:01:25,655
So moved.

25
00:01:25,655 --> 00:01:26,675
An emotion.

26
00:01:26,675 --> 00:01:28,714
Further displaying
discussion.

27
00:01:28,714 --> 00:01:32,329
Opposed In favor I know.

28
00:01:32,329 --> 00:01:40,085
Carries. Agenda item
three is pending issues.

29
00:01:40,085 --> 00:01:42,379
And really all
is involved.

30
00:01:42,379 --> 00:01:45,275
There's just a notice
of our June meeting.

31
00:01:45,275 --> 00:01:46,760
Susan, is there
anything further

32
00:01:46,760 --> 00:01:48,109
you wanted to
know if there's

33
00:01:48,109 --> 00:01:52,970
an agenda item for

34
00:01:52,970 --> 00:01:56,370
jurisdiction status
report, Jim system.

35
00:01:59,380 --> 00:02:01,730
I guess this is
working. Yeah.

36
00:02:01,730 --> 00:02:02,299
Mr.

37
00:02:02,299 --> 00:02:04,264
Chairman, members
of the commission.

38
00:02:04,264 --> 00:02:05,960
This is Jim Sitz bone

39
00:02:05,960 --> 00:02:06,980
from the staff reporting

40
00:02:06,980 --> 00:02:09,874
under the jurisdiction
status summary.

41
00:02:09,874 --> 00:02:11,870
You have materials in

42
00:02:11,870 --> 00:02:14,150
your packet on this
issue and let me just

43
00:02:14,150 --> 00:02:17,210
summarize the three
recommendations

44
00:02:17,210 --> 00:02:18,470
that are before you.

45
00:02:18,470 --> 00:02:21,559
One has to do with
establishing a July 31st,

46
00:02:21,559 --> 00:02:26,540
91 date for the
shoots county with

47
00:02:26,540 --> 00:02:28,940
regard to the tooth
surface mining sites that

48
00:02:28,940 --> 00:02:32,464
were continued at
the March meeting.

49
00:02:32,464 --> 00:02:34,340
The second
recommendation is to

50
00:02:34,340 --> 00:02:37,430
establish August
2 and July 31st

51
00:02:37,430 --> 00:02:40,490
dates for compliance
by Lynn County and

52
00:02:40,490 --> 00:02:41,960
Washoe County on

53
00:02:41,960 --> 00:02:43,639
their acknowledgement
issues.

54
00:02:43,639 --> 00:02:46,355
And the third
recommendation

55
00:02:46,355 --> 00:02:49,220
has to do with a
work program in

56
00:02:49,220 --> 00:02:51,529
schedule for
Jackson County

57
00:02:51,529 --> 00:02:53,540
to complete some work

58
00:02:53,540 --> 00:02:55,940
under a periodic
review and to

59
00:02:55,940 --> 00:02:58,069
deal with some of the
issues surrounding

60
00:02:58,069 --> 00:03:00,289
the question of non form

61
00:03:00,289 --> 00:03:02,810
and non-forced permits and

62
00:03:02,810 --> 00:03:04,310
dwellings that had been

63
00:03:04,310 --> 00:03:05,869
lent within the county.

64
00:03:05,869 --> 00:03:08,434
In regard to that item?

65
00:03:08,434 --> 00:03:10,999
The chair, the
Jackson County Board,

66
00:03:10,999 --> 00:03:14,600
sukha pilus and Laurel
Perry Koons from

67
00:03:14,600 --> 00:03:16,460
the planning staff are
here and we would like

68
00:03:16,460 --> 00:03:18,409
to address the commission

69
00:03:18,409 --> 00:03:20,149
with regard to that topic.

70
00:03:20,149 --> 00:03:22,954
I would only add from

71
00:03:22,954 --> 00:03:24,470
the material
that's here in

72
00:03:24,470 --> 00:03:27,185
our conversation
and the precession.

73
00:03:27,185 --> 00:03:29,389
Now that we have agreed

74
00:03:29,389 --> 00:03:32,540
to adjust the schedule
is presented to

75
00:03:32,540 --> 00:03:35,150
you from November
to December of

76
00:03:35,150 --> 00:03:36,469
this year for
the completion

77
00:03:36,469 --> 00:03:38,030
of the work on exceptions,

78
00:03:38,030 --> 00:03:40,040
that one additional
month in there.

79
00:03:40,040 --> 00:03:41,870
With that, I'd
like to make

80
00:03:41,870 --> 00:03:42,949
available the opportunity

81
00:03:42,949 --> 00:03:47,969
for sukha pilus and
Laurel Koontz to speak.

82
00:04:15,570 --> 00:04:19,149
Good morning. Good
afternoon, commissioners.

83
00:04:19,149 --> 00:04:20,919
I want to thank
you staff for

84
00:04:20,919 --> 00:04:22,929
their diligent effort
in working with

85
00:04:22,929 --> 00:04:24,220
Jackson County to

86
00:04:24,220 --> 00:04:26,574
resolve some
longstanding problems.

87
00:04:26,574 --> 00:04:28,329
We have with both
our resource

88
00:04:28,329 --> 00:04:29,560
and non-recourse lands in

89
00:04:29,560 --> 00:04:33,820
Jackson County Work
Program, I think,

90
00:04:33,820 --> 00:04:36,475
provides us with
a fair time frame

91
00:04:36,475 --> 00:04:39,970
to implement changes
in our zoning which

92
00:04:39,970 --> 00:04:42,339
will accurately reflect
the state law and

93
00:04:42,339 --> 00:04:44,650
provide preservation of r

94
00:04:44,650 --> 00:04:46,780
prime and secondary
resource lands,

95
00:04:46,780 --> 00:04:48,370
as well as recognizing

96
00:04:48,370 --> 00:04:50,589
those lands which
are non resource.

97
00:04:50,589 --> 00:04:53,350
The county has concerns

98
00:04:53,350 --> 00:04:56,000
with Item number three,

99
00:04:56,000 --> 00:04:58,189
which is at the
top of page to

100
00:04:58,189 --> 00:05:00,049
Work Program to
be completed

101
00:05:00,049 --> 00:05:03,599
by February 28 of 1992.

102
00:05:03,850 --> 00:05:06,229
It indicates that
we should adopt

103
00:05:06,229 --> 00:05:08,359
revisions to form
enforce standards

104
00:05:08,359 --> 00:05:11,029
reflecting the
revised goal for and

105
00:05:11,029 --> 00:05:14,090
goal for rule or S to

106
00:05:14,090 --> 00:05:17,390
15 and applicable
court decisions apply

107
00:05:17,390 --> 00:05:19,640
these standards to
the forest resource

108
00:05:19,640 --> 00:05:20,929
and exclusive formulas.

109
00:05:20,929 --> 00:05:22,160
Districts in

110
00:05:22,160 --> 00:05:24,230
Jackson County or forest
resource district

111
00:05:24,230 --> 00:05:25,520
is our forest zone.

112
00:05:25,520 --> 00:05:26,989
It is r prime
for sound and

113
00:05:26,989 --> 00:05:28,550
we have absolutely
no qualms

114
00:05:28,550 --> 00:05:30,755
about implementing
the forest rule

115
00:05:30,755 --> 00:05:32,645
on that zone.

116
00:05:32,645 --> 00:05:34,310
The tune that
will even do it

117
00:05:34,310 --> 00:05:36,899
two years before
we really need to.

118
00:05:37,330 --> 00:05:39,560
Our problem comes with e,

119
00:05:39,560 --> 00:05:41,420
If you District in
Jackson County,

120
00:05:41,420 --> 00:05:43,849
we have approximately
250,000

121
00:05:43,849 --> 00:05:46,639
acres zoned for
exclusive foreign use.

122
00:05:46,639 --> 00:05:50,960
Only 52,000 of those
acres are irrigated.

123
00:05:50,960 --> 00:05:54,289
Which for Jackson County
means only 52,000 of

124
00:05:54,289 --> 00:05:57,529
those acres really can
be put prime farm use.

125
00:05:57,529 --> 00:05:59,884
In talking with
Mr. Sysmon,

126
00:05:59,884 --> 00:06:03,320
we have discussed a
compromise on that,

127
00:06:03,320 --> 00:06:05,585
sort of an honesty
and zoning

128
00:06:05,585 --> 00:06:08,870
where we would
designate on a map for

129
00:06:08,870 --> 00:06:10,475
the commission those areas

130
00:06:10,475 --> 00:06:12,950
which have irrigation
or employing farm use

131
00:06:12,950 --> 00:06:16,579
and deserve and require
the protection that

132
00:06:16,579 --> 00:06:20,300
the district should give
them on those zones.

133
00:06:20,300 --> 00:06:22,399
We will adopt
on those lands,

134
00:06:22,399 --> 00:06:25,745
we will adopt the
changes that had been

135
00:06:25,745 --> 00:06:27,755
come from the court cases

136
00:06:27,755 --> 00:06:31,054
and provide compliance
with Chapter 215.

137
00:06:31,054 --> 00:06:33,020
We would like to move

138
00:06:33,020 --> 00:06:34,925
nine months down the line.

139
00:06:34,925 --> 00:06:36,530
The other, approximately

140
00:06:36,530 --> 00:06:39,199
200,000 acres of land,

141
00:06:39,199 --> 00:06:41,179
some of that
land actually,

142
00:06:41,179 --> 00:06:43,159
I imagine a good
portion of it will fall

143
00:06:43,159 --> 00:06:46,475
out as non resource films.

144
00:06:46,475 --> 00:06:49,189
As a non resource
owned land.

145
00:06:49,189 --> 00:06:51,830
Some of it may come
out of exception.

146
00:06:51,830 --> 00:06:53,420
Some of it may end up

147
00:06:53,420 --> 00:06:55,384
as a secondary
resource zone.

148
00:06:55,384 --> 00:06:58,490
But for that nine
month period of time,

149
00:06:58,490 --> 00:07:00,229
I would rather
not have to face

150
00:07:00,229 --> 00:07:02,435
the public or Jackson
County and say,

151
00:07:02,435 --> 00:07:03,529
gee, we're gonna apply

152
00:07:03,529 --> 00:07:04,520
these standards
even though

153
00:07:04,520 --> 00:07:05,360
we know and you know,

154
00:07:05,360 --> 00:07:07,290
they don't apply to you.

155
00:07:07,810 --> 00:07:10,610
So that is our
request at this time.

156
00:07:10,610 --> 00:07:12,860
We have no
problems applying

157
00:07:12,860 --> 00:07:15,560
by February 28th is
a forest rule to

158
00:07:15,560 --> 00:07:18,560
the forest resource
land or the Chapter

159
00:07:18,560 --> 00:07:20,479
215 in court decisions

160
00:07:20,479 --> 00:07:22,790
to the irrigated
ie a few land.

161
00:07:22,790 --> 00:07:25,170
Do you have any questions?

162
00:07:33,300 --> 00:07:36,580
Specifically
you're requesting?

163
00:07:36,580 --> 00:07:39,129
Stated. Okay. A
modification to

164
00:07:39,129 --> 00:07:42,414
the work program
in items 3.4.

165
00:07:42,414 --> 00:07:46,839
The modification would be

166
00:07:46,839 --> 00:07:49,269
to the adopting
the revisions to

167
00:07:49,269 --> 00:07:52,869
the farm zone to
reflect ORS to 15 and

168
00:07:52,869 --> 00:07:54,655
the applicable
court decisions

169
00:07:54,655 --> 00:07:57,024
and apply those to
the e a few district.

170
00:07:57,024 --> 00:07:58,839
We would like to
apply those only to

171
00:07:58,839 --> 00:08:00,939
the irrigated
commercial lands in

172
00:08:00,939 --> 00:08:04,749
Jackson County and not to

173
00:08:04,749 --> 00:08:06,070
our vast acres of

174
00:08:06,070 --> 00:08:10,429
non irrigated non
resource lands.

175
00:08:11,130 --> 00:08:17,800
We would like to move
implementation of

176
00:08:17,800 --> 00:08:21,654
the revised standards on

177
00:08:21,654 --> 00:08:25,360
the other areas down
to number four,

178
00:08:25,360 --> 00:08:27,429
where we essentially
will be working

179
00:08:27,429 --> 00:08:30,549
with different areas
in Jackson County and

180
00:08:30,549 --> 00:08:33,250
providing them
with alternatives,

181
00:08:33,250 --> 00:08:36,085
zoning alternatives,
openings.

182
00:08:36,085 --> 00:08:37,479
The county is working on

183
00:08:37,479 --> 00:08:39,099
adopting a non
resource zone.

184
00:08:39,099 --> 00:08:40,149
We're working on adopting

185
00:08:40,149 --> 00:08:43,539
a mixed agriculture
forest zone,

186
00:08:43,539 --> 00:08:45,159
which will provide other

187
00:08:45,159 --> 00:08:46,990
avenues and would better

188
00:08:46,990 --> 00:08:48,610
reflect some of the
property we currently

189
00:08:48,610 --> 00:08:51,290
have zoned as
exclusive farm use.

190
00:08:56,860 --> 00:09:02,459
50, 52,000 acres? Yes.

191
00:09:02,590 --> 00:09:04,760
200,000 acres.

192
00:09:04,760 --> 00:09:10,654
About when you say
non-irrigated,

193
00:09:10,654 --> 00:09:13,280
is this non erodible,

194
00:09:13,280 --> 00:09:16,370
ie that it does not
have access to water.

195
00:09:16,370 --> 00:09:17,780
They do not have any

196
00:09:17,780 --> 00:09:19,535
water rights
for irrigation.

197
00:09:19,535 --> 00:09:21,409
And they do not
are not within in

198
00:09:21,409 --> 00:09:22,459
Irrigation District which

199
00:09:22,459 --> 00:09:24,630
can provide irrigation.

200
00:09:26,320 --> 00:09:28,699
And in Jackson County,

201
00:09:28,699 --> 00:09:29,945
as I think we've
been telling you,

202
00:09:29,945 --> 00:09:34,649
without irrigation, you
don't have farm use.

203
00:09:56,740 --> 00:09:59,269
I think the other 200,000

204
00:09:59,269 --> 00:10:00,574
need to be evaluated.

205
00:10:00,574 --> 00:10:01,970
A good portion of them,

206
00:10:01,970 --> 00:10:03,860
my gut feeling
is should not be

207
00:10:03,860 --> 00:10:04,969
exclusive forum use if

208
00:10:04,969 --> 00:10:06,589
we're talking by
exclusive foreign,

209
00:10:06,589 --> 00:10:07,849
this resource land from

210
00:10:07,849 --> 00:10:09,334
which you can
make an income.

211
00:10:09,334 --> 00:10:14,044
When we did the
rezoning In 1982,

212
00:10:14,044 --> 00:10:18,530
to gain acknowledgment,
a number of

213
00:10:18,530 --> 00:10:22,459
areas were thrown into
the exclusive form,

214
00:10:22,459 --> 00:10:24,829
use stone more as
a holding pattern.

215
00:10:24,829 --> 00:10:27,799
They had neither
farm assessment had

216
00:10:27,799 --> 00:10:29,150
never been farmed
and didn't

217
00:10:29,150 --> 00:10:30,770
have the ability
to be farmed.

218
00:10:30,770 --> 00:10:33,035
And it's those lands

219
00:10:33,035 --> 00:10:34,790
that I think I'm
most concerned with

220
00:10:34,790 --> 00:10:37,879
and we have that's

221
00:10:37,879 --> 00:10:39,815
where you're seeing your
non-pharm dwelling.

222
00:10:39,815 --> 00:10:41,869
That's where our
reporting is coming in.

223
00:10:41,869 --> 00:10:43,655
And I think rather than

224
00:10:43,655 --> 00:10:45,390
perpetrating the lives,

225
00:10:45,390 --> 00:10:46,400
that theory, if you,

226
00:10:46,400 --> 00:10:47,629
we need to rezone them

227
00:10:47,629 --> 00:10:48,890
to a district which more

228
00:10:48,890 --> 00:10:49,999
accurately reflects

229
00:10:49,999 --> 00:10:52,920
the capability
of those lands.

230
00:11:02,140 --> 00:11:04,490
No, I'm not
saying that, sir.

231
00:11:04,490 --> 00:11:07,220
There's a there's a
portion that isn't.

232
00:11:07,220 --> 00:11:16,670
But if you know,

233
00:11:16,670 --> 00:11:19,040
but I could get that
information for you.

234
00:11:19,040 --> 00:11:21,485
I do not have it
in not today.

235
00:11:21,485 --> 00:11:23,959
I can have it for
you next week.

236
00:11:23,959 --> 00:11:26,434
If you if you have

237
00:11:26,434 --> 00:11:29,584
a couple of cattle that
you bring in feed,

238
00:11:29,584 --> 00:11:32,879
you can have a
farm assessment.

239
00:11:34,270 --> 00:11:36,800
So what are we
talking about?

240
00:11:36,800 --> 00:11:38,000
The assessment through the

241
00:11:38,000 --> 00:11:39,020
assessors office does

242
00:11:39,020 --> 00:11:43,009
not necessarily say that

243
00:11:43,009 --> 00:11:45,935
the law of the
land is farmable.

244
00:11:45,935 --> 00:11:47,840
I mean, there
are ways to get

245
00:11:47,840 --> 00:11:49,310
the assessment like we

246
00:11:49,310 --> 00:11:51,660
don't want to get
into that discussion.

247
00:12:10,930 --> 00:12:14,160
Is it inform US?

248
00:12:26,010 --> 00:12:29,469
I'm saying that
the majority of

249
00:12:29,469 --> 00:12:33,909
the parcels that
I am looking at

250
00:12:33,909 --> 00:12:36,220
that will fall out of

251
00:12:36,220 --> 00:12:37,989
the E of U District
are part of this

252
00:12:37,989 --> 00:12:40,810
200,000 acres and are

253
00:12:40,810 --> 00:12:44,005
broken up already
into 20 acre parcels.

254
00:12:44,005 --> 00:12:45,849
Subdivisions
that occurred in

255
00:12:45,849 --> 00:12:49,044
the early sixties
and early seventies.

256
00:12:49,044 --> 00:12:50,919
We're not talking about

257
00:12:50,919 --> 00:12:53,749
the large ranching
operations.

258
00:12:53,820 --> 00:12:57,130
Those lands
already exist as

259
00:12:57,130 --> 00:12:59,695
a unit and division and
development on them,

260
00:12:59,695 --> 00:13:03,379
other than farmed dwellings
are not an issue.

261
00:13:06,430 --> 00:13:08,705
For many of these.

262
00:13:08,705 --> 00:13:12,290
Potential acres
is 200,000 acre,

263
00:13:12,290 --> 00:13:16,370
potentially. Secondary.

264
00:13:16,370 --> 00:13:19,860
Secondary is a
resource land.

265
00:13:22,300 --> 00:13:27,890
And so the 200,000,

266
00:13:27,890 --> 00:13:31,024
I would say that for
exception areas,

267
00:13:31,024 --> 00:13:37,655
we're looking at
approximately what,

268
00:13:37,655 --> 00:13:39,439
maybe a quarter.

269
00:13:39,439 --> 00:13:41,434
And that's worked
at the Department

270
00:13:41,434 --> 00:13:43,399
is what your department
is working on

271
00:13:43,399 --> 00:13:45,350
right now with
Jackson County

272
00:13:45,350 --> 00:13:47,090
identifying those
exception areas,

273
00:13:47,090 --> 00:13:48,230
it really should
have been taken

274
00:13:48,230 --> 00:13:51,170
out in the early eighties.

275
00:13:51,170 --> 00:13:53,795
I'd say a good half of it

276
00:13:53,795 --> 00:13:56,570
is going to come out
as non resource land.

277
00:13:56,570 --> 00:14:00,004
And the remaining quarter

278
00:14:00,004 --> 00:14:03,934
is up for discussion.

279
00:14:03,934 --> 00:14:09,650
We would have areas
that maybe secondary.

280
00:14:09,650 --> 00:14:11,880
I don't feel they would be

281
00:14:11,920 --> 00:14:14,944
because it's secondary
is resource.

282
00:14:14,944 --> 00:14:15,709
If you're going to get

283
00:14:15,709 --> 00:14:16,789
production off of land,

284
00:14:16,789 --> 00:14:18,810
you need the irrigation,

285
00:14:19,240 --> 00:14:23,329
with the exception
of the cattle,

286
00:14:23,329 --> 00:14:25,820
the grazing operations,
but those are already

287
00:14:25,820 --> 00:14:27,559
large units that are

288
00:14:27,559 --> 00:14:28,700
not I don't think under

289
00:14:28,700 --> 00:14:30,635
this discussion today,

290
00:14:30,635 --> 00:14:33,109
any session,

291
00:14:33,109 --> 00:14:35,749
areas within these lands

292
00:14:35,749 --> 00:14:37,069
that you're talking about?

293
00:14:37,069 --> 00:14:38,990
Not areas for which
we have already

294
00:14:38,990 --> 00:14:41,674
taken an exception
now, are they?

295
00:14:41,674 --> 00:14:43,669
If that's what you're
asking, if you're

296
00:14:43,669 --> 00:14:45,679
saying this area which is

297
00:14:45,679 --> 00:14:47,330
zone generally ESU does

298
00:14:47,330 --> 00:14:49,325
it have exceptionalities
within it?

299
00:14:49,325 --> 00:14:51,560
The answer is
yes. Areas for

300
00:14:51,560 --> 00:14:53,880
which we have taken
an exception.

301
00:14:55,120 --> 00:14:57,004
Sometimes it looks like

302
00:14:57,004 --> 00:14:59,345
chickenpox and you
look at the map.

303
00:14:59,345 --> 00:15:05,279
There is one
more question.

304
00:15:05,350 --> 00:15:08,149
You say there is no water

305
00:15:08,149 --> 00:15:10,699
available for irrigation,

306
00:15:10,699 --> 00:15:15,269
but also in deep wells.

307
00:15:15,460 --> 00:15:18,139
From the water
Master's office,

308
00:15:18,139 --> 00:15:20,360
you can get a water
right for up to one

309
00:15:20,360 --> 00:15:23,240
acre around your
home with your well,

310
00:15:23,240 --> 00:15:25,335
in Jackson County has

311
00:15:25,335 --> 00:15:28,669
a problem with
groundwater resources.

312
00:15:28,669 --> 00:15:30,889
That's one of the
mini limiting

313
00:15:30,889 --> 00:15:33,200
factors for development in

314
00:15:33,200 --> 00:15:35,360
the county and something
that we're working

315
00:15:35,360 --> 00:15:38,495
with in another program.

316
00:15:38,495 --> 00:15:40,729
But as far as getting
water rights from

317
00:15:40,729 --> 00:15:42,950
groundwater to
irrigate fields,

318
00:15:42,950 --> 00:15:48,229
no surface water
rights are taken.

319
00:15:48,229 --> 00:15:50,720
They are not issuing
new water rights in

320
00:15:50,720 --> 00:15:53,224
Jackson County
for streams and

321
00:15:53,224 --> 00:15:55,789
irrigation
districts are at

322
00:15:55,789 --> 00:15:57,649
this time full and

323
00:15:57,649 --> 00:15:59,615
not issuing new
water rights.

324
00:15:59,615 --> 00:16:03,500
Is there any particular
water water strata

325
00:16:03,500 --> 00:16:04,610
there that's suitable

326
00:16:04,610 --> 00:16:07,939
for large volumes
production

327
00:16:07,939 --> 00:16:10,199
of water deepwater.

328
00:16:10,570 --> 00:16:13,130
Know the geology of

329
00:16:13,130 --> 00:16:16,369
Jackson County is such
that we don't have at

330
00:16:16,369 --> 00:16:23,959
this point deep
groundwater caverns,

331
00:16:23,959 --> 00:16:25,400
so to speak, something
that I'm used

332
00:16:25,400 --> 00:16:27,169
to from other areas.

333
00:16:27,169 --> 00:16:29,570
What they find when
groundwater is

334
00:16:29,570 --> 00:16:34,730
predominantly
cracks and within

335
00:16:34,730 --> 00:16:38,249
the bedrock where they
pull the groundwater.

336
00:16:43,030 --> 00:16:46,099
I was interested
in the possibility

337
00:16:46,099 --> 00:16:47,840
of you're getting

338
00:16:47,840 --> 00:16:49,730
some of the land
that was 200,000

339
00:16:49,730 --> 00:16:51,829
acres into a non
resource category.

340
00:16:51,829 --> 00:16:52,550
And if you set it,

341
00:16:52,550 --> 00:16:53,959
I didn't follow
what you said.

342
00:16:53,959 --> 00:16:55,249
Is there some of that will

343
00:16:55,249 --> 00:16:56,830
come out as non resource?

344
00:16:56,830 --> 00:16:58,760
Yeah, absolutely.
I think about half

345
00:16:58,760 --> 00:17:01,070
of it will come out
as non resource land.

346
00:17:01,070 --> 00:17:02,870
And are you pursuing

347
00:17:02,870 --> 00:17:05,120
that aspect immediately or

348
00:17:05,120 --> 00:17:06,574
is this to be delayed?

349
00:17:06,574 --> 00:17:08,930
Nothing has to be delayed.

350
00:17:08,930 --> 00:17:10,985
I think implementation.

351
00:17:10,985 --> 00:17:13,970
I have a great
fear of going out

352
00:17:13,970 --> 00:17:17,179
to the public every
six months saying,

353
00:17:17,179 --> 00:17:18,709
I've got this new program

354
00:17:18,709 --> 00:17:19,519
and we're going
to apply it

355
00:17:19,519 --> 00:17:20,539
on some of the pieces and

356
00:17:20,539 --> 00:17:21,740
then come back
another six months,

357
00:17:21,740 --> 00:17:23,614
say, hey, I got
another new program.

358
00:17:23,614 --> 00:17:25,385
I sort of believe
in planning.

359
00:17:25,385 --> 00:17:27,064
I'd like to take
the Applegate area.

360
00:17:27,064 --> 00:17:28,579
I'd like to go into it,

361
00:17:28,579 --> 00:17:31,039
gets citizens
involved and say,

362
00:17:31,039 --> 00:17:32,675
Okay, this is my
bag of tricks.

363
00:17:32,675 --> 00:17:35,255
We've got these types
of zones available.

364
00:17:35,255 --> 00:17:36,815
They take this land,

365
00:17:36,815 --> 00:17:39,080
this type of criteria
to implement them.

366
00:17:39,080 --> 00:17:41,209
Let's sit down and figure
out what works for

367
00:17:41,209 --> 00:17:42,829
the Applegate Valley and

368
00:17:42,829 --> 00:17:45,274
plan the valley as a unit,

369
00:17:45,274 --> 00:17:48,734
instead of doing it
piecemeal county-wide.

370
00:17:48,734 --> 00:17:50,920
Developing the
implementation

371
00:17:50,920 --> 00:17:52,465
strategies for that.

372
00:17:52,465 --> 00:17:53,979
I see taking us

373
00:17:53,979 --> 00:17:58,419
until the beginning
of summer of 92.

374
00:17:58,419 --> 00:18:00,339
So I'm asking
for about a year

375
00:18:00,339 --> 00:18:02,590
to get strategies
developed,

376
00:18:02,590 --> 00:18:04,089
to get ordinances adopted

377
00:18:04,089 --> 00:18:05,469
so that we can
go out and start

378
00:18:05,469 --> 00:18:07,840
implementing all
of the programs

379
00:18:07,840 --> 00:18:10,729
on an area by area basis.

380
00:18:11,790 --> 00:18:13,929
I don't have a problem

381
00:18:13,929 --> 00:18:15,309
with implementing
the changes to

382
00:18:15,309 --> 00:18:16,599
the forest resource soon

383
00:18:16,599 --> 00:18:19,000
because that is our
primary forest zone.

384
00:18:19,000 --> 00:18:20,500
We're already
implementing them

385
00:18:20,500 --> 00:18:22,990
without having adopted
specific language,

386
00:18:22,990 --> 00:18:24,550
we can adopt a
specific language.

387
00:18:24,550 --> 00:18:26,515
It doesn't
change anything.

388
00:18:26,515 --> 00:18:28,734
We do have a concern with

389
00:18:28,734 --> 00:18:30,550
adopting specific
language any of

390
00:18:30,550 --> 00:18:33,289
you and applying it

391
00:18:33,289 --> 00:18:34,399
to all the land because it

392
00:18:34,399 --> 00:18:36,454
really doesn't apply
to all the land.

393
00:18:36,454 --> 00:18:39,140
I'm not deleting anything.

394
00:18:39,140 --> 00:18:41,659
Rather, I see the
county putting

395
00:18:41,659 --> 00:18:45,305
together a
program and then

396
00:18:45,305 --> 00:18:48,350
developing the
citizen involvement

397
00:18:48,350 --> 00:18:49,879
and support for
that program

398
00:18:49,879 --> 00:18:51,739
on an area by area
basis and getting it

399
00:18:51,739 --> 00:18:53,959
implemented on an
area by area basis.

400
00:18:53,959 --> 00:18:56,569
So when we say
November of 92,

401
00:18:56,569 --> 00:18:58,700
I imagined that
we will have

402
00:18:58,700 --> 00:19:00,679
many areas developed and

403
00:19:00,679 --> 00:19:02,884
adopted sooner than that.

404
00:19:02,884 --> 00:19:05,735
But it will come
in area by area.

405
00:19:05,735 --> 00:19:08,060
We won't do the whole
county it wants.

406
00:19:08,060 --> 00:19:11,360
I'm sure you're aware
of where you are and

407
00:19:11,360 --> 00:19:13,340
the reports on if

408
00:19:13,340 --> 00:19:15,709
you farm and forced
to dwellings.

409
00:19:15,709 --> 00:19:16,520
And of course,
I think that

410
00:19:16,520 --> 00:19:17,720
raises great concern with

411
00:19:17,720 --> 00:19:18,529
us and probably with

412
00:19:18,529 --> 00:19:19,880
other people in the state.

413
00:19:19,880 --> 00:19:22,309
And I'm wondering what
steps we can take to

414
00:19:22,309 --> 00:19:23,359
make you not be at

415
00:19:23,359 --> 00:19:25,219
the top of the list
for this next year.

416
00:19:25,219 --> 00:19:27,500
And I guess my
specific question is,

417
00:19:27,500 --> 00:19:30,019
how are you addressing
the Supreme Court

418
00:19:30,019 --> 00:19:32,195
to whether the
court test anyway,

419
00:19:32,195 --> 00:19:33,829
which indicated
that you couldn't

420
00:19:33,829 --> 00:19:35,929
split off part of
the parcel and

421
00:19:35,929 --> 00:19:39,859
call it non-pharm
and leave the rest.

422
00:19:39,859 --> 00:19:43,715
Any FU is this being
addressed? Now?

423
00:19:43,715 --> 00:19:46,579
I have two
answers for that.

424
00:19:46,579 --> 00:19:48,139
You're speaking of Smith

425
00:19:48,139 --> 00:19:49,340
versus Clark
and Ms. County,

426
00:19:49,340 --> 00:19:50,479
which said that in order

427
00:19:50,479 --> 00:19:51,829
to approve a non
firm dwelling,

428
00:19:51,829 --> 00:19:53,420
you have to apply

429
00:19:53,420 --> 00:19:54,919
the generally
unsuitable test to

430
00:19:54,919 --> 00:19:57,080
the tire property.
All right.

431
00:19:57,080 --> 00:19:59,825
Okay. Jackson County
is implementing that.

432
00:19:59,825 --> 00:20:02,329
We do apply the generally

433
00:20:02,329 --> 00:20:05,480
unsuitable to the entire
piece of property.

434
00:20:05,480 --> 00:20:08,750
We're still creating
the non-pharm parcel

435
00:20:08,750 --> 00:20:09,770
and disqualifying

436
00:20:09,770 --> 00:20:11,720
the 123 acres around
the home site.

437
00:20:11,720 --> 00:20:13,250
But we make the
finding for

438
00:20:13,250 --> 00:20:15,214
the entire piece
of property.

439
00:20:15,214 --> 00:20:17,510
That's something that we

440
00:20:17,510 --> 00:20:19,700
are working with
your staff on,

441
00:20:19,700 --> 00:20:22,459
that is an issue
and that's one

442
00:20:22,459 --> 00:20:23,600
of the things
that they would

443
00:20:23,600 --> 00:20:25,040
like to see addressed me.

444
00:20:25,040 --> 00:20:27,349
It's something
we're working on.

445
00:20:27,349 --> 00:20:30,169
I guess I just really have

446
00:20:30,169 --> 00:20:33,514
a problem applying that
to non resource land.

447
00:20:33,514 --> 00:20:35,000
And permanently saying you

448
00:20:35,000 --> 00:20:36,275
can never have
pharmacists, man,

449
00:20:36,275 --> 00:20:39,050
even if you take the
time and the effort to

450
00:20:39,050 --> 00:20:40,460
start raising animals on

451
00:20:40,460 --> 00:20:42,574
your land, to
bring in the feed.

452
00:20:42,574 --> 00:20:44,344
I mean, that happens on

453
00:20:44,344 --> 00:20:46,910
residential land and
they get the pharmacist.

454
00:20:46,910 --> 00:20:50,075
Why are we seeing these
people are different?

455
00:20:50,075 --> 00:20:52,070
My problem, of course, is

456
00:20:52,070 --> 00:20:53,824
simply that I
would like to have

457
00:20:53,824 --> 00:20:54,980
some indication

458
00:20:54,980 --> 00:20:56,179
that maybe next year
you wouldn't be

459
00:20:56,179 --> 00:20:57,350
at the top of
the list or be

460
00:20:57,350 --> 00:20:58,669
somewhere down at
least in the middle.

461
00:20:58,669 --> 00:21:00,500
And I was wondering
what steps are

462
00:21:00,500 --> 00:21:02,420
coming along in the
next year which would

463
00:21:02,420 --> 00:21:03,650
make bring down

464
00:21:03,650 --> 00:21:07,009
this apparent
discrepancy county

465
00:21:07,009 --> 00:21:08,029
has in relation
to the rest of

466
00:21:08,029 --> 00:21:09,200
the state within

467
00:21:09,200 --> 00:21:12,259
the next year and we're
talking about what?

468
00:21:12,259 --> 00:21:15,410
May of 92. We will
have completed

469
00:21:15,410 --> 00:21:18,695
the exceptions
procedure and

470
00:21:18,695 --> 00:21:19,909
finalized at least at

471
00:21:19,909 --> 00:21:22,970
the county level
by December of 91,

472
00:21:22,970 --> 00:21:26,629
recognizing areas
as exceptions

473
00:21:26,629 --> 00:21:28,865
that we'll take
lands out of.

474
00:21:28,865 --> 00:21:30,949
Exclusive farm
use district,

475
00:21:30,949 --> 00:21:32,404
the woman resource
district,

476
00:21:32,404 --> 00:21:34,399
and the open space
reserve district within

477
00:21:34,399 --> 00:21:37,265
resource and open space
reserve are reported.

478
00:21:37,265 --> 00:21:39,870
As for sounds,

479
00:21:40,090 --> 00:21:43,040
most of the open space
reserve district,

480
00:21:43,040 --> 00:21:46,220
I feel when we draft
the non resource

481
00:21:46,220 --> 00:21:47,809
soon will fall
into it because

482
00:21:47,809 --> 00:21:49,400
in order to be open
space reserve,

483
00:21:49,400 --> 00:21:51,140
you can't grow agriculture

484
00:21:51,140 --> 00:21:52,504
and you can't grow trees.

485
00:21:52,504 --> 00:21:56,254
But it's still
a forest zone.

486
00:21:56,254 --> 00:21:59,149
So we're taking steps

487
00:21:59,149 --> 00:22:01,649
that will occur
by December.

488
00:22:02,880 --> 00:22:06,850
As far as the

489
00:22:06,850 --> 00:22:10,089
agricultural reviewing
home sites money,

490
00:22:10,089 --> 00:22:12,280
if you land, we

491
00:22:12,280 --> 00:22:15,830
are evaluating the
entire property.

492
00:22:15,960 --> 00:22:20,095
We are reviewing more
farmed dwellings now,

493
00:22:20,095 --> 00:22:24,070
according to both our
ordinance and statute.

494
00:22:24,070 --> 00:22:26,919
So we think in the
next reporting period,

495
00:22:26,919 --> 00:22:29,720
you will see a
substantial drop.

496
00:22:29,970 --> 00:22:32,980
I guess my comment
is that I like

497
00:22:32,980 --> 00:22:34,270
the direction
you're going and

498
00:22:34,270 --> 00:22:35,860
I and I hope it
works out that way.

499
00:22:35,860 --> 00:22:37,239
And I think you
have faced up to

500
00:22:37,239 --> 00:22:38,859
the problems that
obviously the rest of

501
00:22:38,859 --> 00:22:40,660
us see down there from

502
00:22:40,660 --> 00:22:42,310
the statistics that
will come out.

503
00:22:42,310 --> 00:22:43,879
And I guess my concern

504
00:22:43,879 --> 00:22:45,139
was simply whether
maybe you're

505
00:22:45,139 --> 00:22:47,479
going to be able to
address all of these fast

506
00:22:47,479 --> 00:22:48,590
enough if maybe
some of these

507
00:22:48,590 --> 00:22:49,970
couldn't have come
along a little faster,

508
00:22:49,970 --> 00:22:53,209
but I think we've got
to recognize that

509
00:22:53,209 --> 00:22:55,010
the county has a problem

510
00:22:55,010 --> 00:22:55,909
out there and
it's going to

511
00:22:55,909 --> 00:22:56,839
be a bit chromatic.

512
00:22:56,839 --> 00:22:58,009
I think for some, people

513
00:22:58,009 --> 00:22:59,224
have been able to
do some things

514
00:22:59,224 --> 00:23:00,469
out there that
they're going to

515
00:23:00,469 --> 00:23:01,880
be more limited
on in the future.

516
00:23:01,880 --> 00:23:04,369
And I think that
the commission and

517
00:23:04,369 --> 00:23:05,840
certainly the department
wants to work with

518
00:23:05,840 --> 00:23:07,535
you and solving
these problems.

519
00:23:07,535 --> 00:23:08,300
As I've said,

520
00:23:08,300 --> 00:23:09,560
the Department's gone
out of their way

521
00:23:09,560 --> 00:23:11,450
so far to assist us
in this program.

522
00:23:11,450 --> 00:23:13,760
They're doing
the brand over

523
00:23:13,760 --> 00:23:16,279
the research at the moment

524
00:23:16,279 --> 00:23:18,229
on the exceptions process,

525
00:23:18,229 --> 00:23:20,330
which is what is
enabling us to say yes,

526
00:23:20,330 --> 00:23:23,900
it will be completed
in a timely manner.

527
00:23:23,900 --> 00:23:26,960
Jackson County fields that

528
00:23:26,960 --> 00:23:30,305
we are preserving the
primary source land.

529
00:23:30,305 --> 00:23:32,060
We've had a steady done on

530
00:23:32,060 --> 00:23:36,425
our EOQ decisions 84-89.

531
00:23:36,425 --> 00:23:38,989
They looked at over

532
00:23:38,989 --> 00:23:41,690
500 decisions
and they said,

533
00:23:41,690 --> 00:23:44,789
We think you made
a mistake on one.

534
00:23:44,890 --> 00:23:47,494
We think you made
a mistake on one.

535
00:23:47,494 --> 00:23:50,135
We think one, yeah.
Actually cited home site.

536
00:23:50,135 --> 00:23:52,400
That wasn't quite in

537
00:23:52,400 --> 00:23:53,989
keeping with
the state law,

538
00:23:53,989 --> 00:23:57,484
but on the other
499, you did.

539
00:23:57,484 --> 00:23:58,820
And so we really

540
00:23:58,820 --> 00:24:00,440
think we are and
we're trying

541
00:24:00,440 --> 00:24:05,749
to keep that up
and improve that.

542
00:24:05,749 --> 00:24:07,130
Right?

543
00:24:07,130 --> 00:24:08,659
We're not interested in

544
00:24:08,659 --> 00:24:09,650
residential development

545
00:24:09,650 --> 00:24:11,614
throughout Jackson
County, that won't work.

546
00:24:11,614 --> 00:24:14,059
One of our
abiding concerns

547
00:24:14,059 --> 00:24:16,670
with respect to
preservation of

548
00:24:16,670 --> 00:24:19,025
primary farmland is

549
00:24:19,025 --> 00:24:22,325
that adjacent non
prime farmland,

550
00:24:22,325 --> 00:24:23,630
secondary land,
non resource

551
00:24:23,630 --> 00:24:25,070
land of what goes on there

552
00:24:25,070 --> 00:24:28,340
can have dramatic effects
on that farmland.

553
00:24:28,340 --> 00:24:31,819
So that if you
had a 500 acres

554
00:24:31,819 --> 00:24:33,230
of prime farmland
and you put

555
00:24:33,230 --> 00:24:35,119
houses on the border
all the way around it.

556
00:24:35,119 --> 00:24:37,759
It could effectively
sterilize

557
00:24:37,759 --> 00:24:40,069
that prime farmland
just because

558
00:24:40,069 --> 00:24:43,010
of the conflicts
that come up.

559
00:24:43,010 --> 00:24:45,425
And the, basically
the farmer

560
00:24:45,425 --> 00:24:47,104
just can't I can't farm.

561
00:24:47,104 --> 00:24:49,040
He is he has put
out of business,

562
00:24:49,040 --> 00:24:50,300
but the business
just because of

563
00:24:50,300 --> 00:24:52,670
the harassment and
all the problems,

564
00:24:52,670 --> 00:24:54,350
What are you doing to

565
00:24:54,350 --> 00:24:56,269
prevent that
from happening?

566
00:24:56,269 --> 00:24:58,130
We have that's
what we've used

567
00:24:58,130 --> 00:24:59,690
our open space
reserve district for.

568
00:24:59,690 --> 00:25:01,549
Primarily, it is
a buffering zone.

569
00:25:01,549 --> 00:25:02,779
It's not resource land

570
00:25:02,779 --> 00:25:04,040
although falls
under your goal

571
00:25:04,040 --> 00:25:07,639
for and is reported
as forest dwellings.

572
00:25:07,639 --> 00:25:11,284
It's a very large
lot, 20 acres zone.

573
00:25:11,284 --> 00:25:13,909
Property owners who
build on it have to

574
00:25:13,909 --> 00:25:16,909
keep 200 ft from
any resource.

575
00:25:16,909 --> 00:25:20,044
Zone B, it timbre
or agriculture.

576
00:25:20,044 --> 00:25:21,905
But that is used
as our buffering.

577
00:25:21,905 --> 00:25:24,364
I think it's been
said by Mel Lucas,

578
00:25:24,364 --> 00:25:25,819
Jackson County is
more concerned with

579
00:25:25,819 --> 00:25:28,444
buffering than any other
counties dealt with.

580
00:25:28,444 --> 00:25:30,649
On residential zone lands,

581
00:25:30,649 --> 00:25:32,974
the residences must
be at least 200 ft.

582
00:25:32,974 --> 00:25:33,829
They have to record

583
00:25:33,829 --> 00:25:35,090
a covenant
stating that they

584
00:25:35,090 --> 00:25:36,680
realized they're either in

585
00:25:36,680 --> 00:25:37,880
a farmer forest zone,

586
00:25:37,880 --> 00:25:40,714
depending upon
the circumstance

587
00:25:40,714 --> 00:25:43,295
that they are accepting

588
00:25:43,295 --> 00:25:45,304
by placement of
the residents,

589
00:25:45,304 --> 00:25:47,929
that they will suffer

590
00:25:47,929 --> 00:25:49,729
the normal and customary,

591
00:25:49,729 --> 00:25:52,775
either farming or
forestry activities.

592
00:25:52,775 --> 00:25:54,935
We advise them.

593
00:25:54,935 --> 00:25:57,649
It goes with a deed
to the Latin land on

594
00:25:57,649 --> 00:26:00,440
the residential land and
new property owners.

595
00:26:00,440 --> 00:26:02,360
It comes up in
their title report.

596
00:26:02,360 --> 00:26:04,849
Is it is it really
a deed recording

597
00:26:04,849 --> 00:26:05,899
because we have those in

598
00:26:05,899 --> 00:26:07,174
some other
counties in there.

599
00:26:07,174 --> 00:26:08,825
They're signed
and all that.

600
00:26:08,825 --> 00:26:10,775
But they aren't really
a deed restriction,

601
00:26:10,775 --> 00:26:12,259
purchases a deed
restriction.

602
00:26:12,259 --> 00:26:14,359
It's sine notarized
and recorded with

603
00:26:14,359 --> 00:26:17,690
the county clerk and

604
00:26:17,690 --> 00:26:20,014
shows up on the title
reports from their own.

605
00:26:20,014 --> 00:26:23,255
As you've probably seen,

606
00:26:23,255 --> 00:26:24,515
because you guys
have been following

607
00:26:24,515 --> 00:26:26,960
the secondary
lands process that

608
00:26:26,960 --> 00:26:28,490
the forestry department

609
00:26:28,490 --> 00:26:29,675
at least is recommending

610
00:26:29,675 --> 00:26:31,310
a half-mile setback from

611
00:26:31,310 --> 00:26:32,974
forest areas, at least.

612
00:26:32,974 --> 00:26:35,284
What does your
reaction on that?

613
00:26:35,284 --> 00:26:36,680
That's the buffer
they feel is

614
00:26:36,680 --> 00:26:38,929
adequate to
prevent impacts.

615
00:26:38,929 --> 00:26:41,165
Actually, I'm going to

616
00:26:41,165 --> 00:26:44,149
answer that by
sort of long way

617
00:26:44,149 --> 00:26:47,059
around Saturday I had
the opportunity to

618
00:26:47,059 --> 00:26:48,574
tour the Applegate
Valley with

619
00:26:48,574 --> 00:26:50,360
the Oregon
border forestry,

620
00:26:50,360 --> 00:26:51,439
the Department
of Forestry,

621
00:26:51,439 --> 00:26:53,780
US Forest
Service, and BLM.

622
00:26:53,780 --> 00:26:56,029
I was a sacrificial lamb.

623
00:26:56,029 --> 00:26:59,390
And they look at
it and he said,

624
00:26:59,390 --> 00:27:01,280
Hey, you guys are proved

625
00:27:01,280 --> 00:27:03,319
188 dwellings
and forest land.

626
00:27:03,319 --> 00:27:05,460
What do you think
you're doing?

627
00:27:05,530 --> 00:27:08,525
And I pointed the
hillside and I said

628
00:27:08,525 --> 00:27:10,190
that's where 181 of

629
00:27:10,190 --> 00:27:11,614
them were or that
type of land.

630
00:27:11,614 --> 00:27:13,249
It scrub oak,

631
00:27:13,249 --> 00:27:15,349
some mud drone
at times there

632
00:27:15,349 --> 00:27:17,255
may be pine, her conifer.

633
00:27:17,255 --> 00:27:20,704
It is lowland.

634
00:27:20,704 --> 00:27:22,550
Well, the guy from
the Department

635
00:27:22,550 --> 00:27:23,780
of Forestry
said it's junk,

636
00:27:23,780 --> 00:27:24,829
we don't care about that.

637
00:27:24,829 --> 00:27:25,459
Where are you putting

638
00:27:25,459 --> 00:27:26,959
the dwellings in
the forest land.

639
00:27:26,959 --> 00:27:28,654
Well, we did
eight of those.

640
00:27:28,654 --> 00:27:29,900
That's in our
forest resource.

641
00:27:29,900 --> 00:27:34,679
So you asked me about
the half-mile buffer.

642
00:27:35,860 --> 00:27:38,929
It depends on how it
gets implemented.

643
00:27:38,929 --> 00:27:40,370
If we're talking about

644
00:27:40,370 --> 00:27:42,200
a half-mile buffer from

645
00:27:42,200 --> 00:27:44,000
the woodland
resource soon.

646
00:27:44,000 --> 00:27:46,699
I don't think we're
talking the same thing.

647
00:27:46,699 --> 00:27:48,410
If we're talking a
half-mile buffer

648
00:27:48,410 --> 00:27:52,969
to prime Timberland that

649
00:27:52,969 --> 00:27:54,289
is being managed
for timber.

650
00:27:54,289 --> 00:27:55,895
I don't have
problems with that.

651
00:27:55,895 --> 00:27:57,979
Or for crime or E

652
00:27:57,979 --> 00:28:00,679
a few land or
agricultural land.

653
00:28:00,679 --> 00:28:02,389
I'd have to sit
down and look at

654
00:28:02,389 --> 00:28:03,199
the valley floor and

655
00:28:03,199 --> 00:28:04,340
figure out what
we're talking about.

656
00:28:04,340 --> 00:28:05,540
Because when we
talk about prime

657
00:28:05,540 --> 00:28:07,400
agricultural land
in Jackson County,

658
00:28:07,400 --> 00:28:10,170
we're talking the
valley floor,

659
00:28:10,330 --> 00:28:13,984
which has
developed already.

660
00:28:13,984 --> 00:28:15,560
When we look at the
non-pharm dwellings,

661
00:28:15,560 --> 00:28:16,250
we're not talking

662
00:28:16,250 --> 00:28:17,239
about non-pharm
dwellings and

663
00:28:17,239 --> 00:28:19,235
the valley floor
at this time.

664
00:28:19,235 --> 00:28:21,944
We're talking about the
non-pharm dwellings

665
00:28:21,944 --> 00:28:24,119
occurring on
the foothills.

666
00:28:24,310 --> 00:28:28,100
So I'd need to
sit down with

667
00:28:28,100 --> 00:28:30,019
maps and give you a
very specific answer

668
00:28:30,019 --> 00:28:31,459
to it if we're
talking about crime,

669
00:28:31,459 --> 00:28:33,500
forest land, my
answer is it

670
00:28:33,500 --> 00:28:34,879
not a problem as far as

671
00:28:34,879 --> 00:28:37,560
Jackson County is
concerned at this time?

672
00:28:38,380 --> 00:28:40,849
I simply would like
to comment that I

673
00:28:40,849 --> 00:28:42,560
think the most vivid
story that I've heard

674
00:28:42,560 --> 00:28:44,300
recently on the
conflict problem was

675
00:28:44,300 --> 00:28:46,789
came from Jackson County,
Homer down there,

676
00:28:46,789 --> 00:28:48,830
when the women come in

677
00:28:48,830 --> 00:28:50,539
and said he'd just
been turned in by

678
00:28:50,539 --> 00:28:52,249
his California
and neighbors on

679
00:28:52,249 --> 00:28:53,510
his cattle operation there

680
00:28:53,510 --> 00:28:55,295
because it was
weaning time.

681
00:28:55,295 --> 00:28:57,469
And he was turned in
for having star of

682
00:28:57,469 --> 00:29:00,289
these poor calves out
there bawling and well,

683
00:29:00,289 --> 00:29:01,309
anybody who's
lived next to

684
00:29:01,309 --> 00:29:03,289
a woman knows that
there's a one period

685
00:29:03,289 --> 00:29:04,369
of time when
you can expect

686
00:29:04,369 --> 00:29:06,830
at least 48 h is
steady balling.

687
00:29:06,830 --> 00:29:07,699
Here.

688
00:29:07,699 --> 00:29:08,839
This is the kind
of thing we would

689
00:29:08,839 --> 00:29:10,055
like to avoid
in the future.

690
00:29:10,055 --> 00:29:13,564
I realized that and yeah,

691
00:29:13,564 --> 00:29:15,439
Jim Miller has
that problem

692
00:29:15,439 --> 00:29:17,150
about two or three
times a year for

693
00:29:17,150 --> 00:29:20,420
various atrocities that he

694
00:29:20,420 --> 00:29:21,859
perpetuates on his land,

695
00:29:21,859 --> 00:29:24,300
such as separate
and their cattle.

696
00:29:25,300 --> 00:29:28,535
Other questions
or commissioners?

697
00:29:28,535 --> 00:29:30,319
I have one more question

698
00:29:30,319 --> 00:29:31,489
before emotion anyway,

699
00:29:31,489 --> 00:29:34,280
I have one question.

700
00:29:34,280 --> 00:29:36,710
I this case we referred to

701
00:29:36,710 --> 00:29:38,119
about black
commas County and

702
00:29:38,119 --> 00:29:40,865
the practice in
Jackson County.

703
00:29:40,865 --> 00:29:42,139
I'd like to hear more.

704
00:29:42,139 --> 00:29:44,705
I don't understand
what you do

705
00:29:44,705 --> 00:29:48,140
in those kinds
of issues is

706
00:29:48,140 --> 00:29:52,145
that large block of land

707
00:29:52,145 --> 00:29:54,905
and you actually spin

708
00:29:54,905 --> 00:29:58,830
that with an acre
or two around it.

709
00:30:02,320 --> 00:30:04,489
Remainder of that goes

710
00:30:04,489 --> 00:30:05,900
to a different ownership?

711
00:30:05,900 --> 00:30:08,135
No, it does not go to
a different ownership.

712
00:30:08,135 --> 00:30:09,319
That's one of
the things that

713
00:30:09,319 --> 00:30:10,474
we've been criticized for.

714
00:30:10,474 --> 00:30:12,020
Walk me through
the process.

715
00:30:12,020 --> 00:30:15,365
Okay. You have 20
acres, it's dry land.

716
00:30:15,365 --> 00:30:16,384
It's exit when low.

717
00:30:16,384 --> 00:30:18,320
You can't put
a plow in it.

718
00:30:18,320 --> 00:30:19,999
You have farm assessment

719
00:30:19,999 --> 00:30:23,464
because there is a month.

720
00:30:23,464 --> 00:30:26,999
It's you run a couple
of cattle on it.

721
00:30:27,160 --> 00:30:30,469
So you have farm
assessment,

722
00:30:30,469 --> 00:30:34,535
20 acres exit when low,

723
00:30:34,535 --> 00:30:36,800
does not have a soil
capability rating

724
00:30:36,800 --> 00:30:38,225
for irrigated land.

725
00:30:38,225 --> 00:30:40,925
For non irrigated,
it's class seven.

726
00:30:40,925 --> 00:30:42,920
We look at your 20 acres

727
00:30:42,920 --> 00:30:44,540
and it is generally
unsuitable for

728
00:30:44,540 --> 00:30:45,709
agriculture except for

729
00:30:45,709 --> 00:30:47,105
about two or three weeks

730
00:30:47,105 --> 00:30:49,339
when you can run Carolina.

731
00:30:49,339 --> 00:30:52,070
We would evaluate
that property

732
00:30:52,070 --> 00:30:53,390
is being generally
unsuitable for

733
00:30:53,390 --> 00:30:55,790
agriculture because
we're talking

734
00:30:55,790 --> 00:30:57,469
about 50 weeks of
the year when you

735
00:30:57,469 --> 00:30:59,300
can't do anything with
it unless you bring in

736
00:30:59,300 --> 00:31:02,669
water and bring in feet.

737
00:31:02,920 --> 00:31:05,509
The application comes in

738
00:31:05,509 --> 00:31:07,339
according to our land
development ordinance,

739
00:31:07,339 --> 00:31:08,854
which is acknowledged for

740
00:31:08,854 --> 00:31:10,369
non-farm dwelling and

741
00:31:10,369 --> 00:31:12,635
for the non-pharm parcel,

742
00:31:12,635 --> 00:31:14,660
we make the findings that

743
00:31:14,660 --> 00:31:17,975
properties generally
unsuitable for farm use.

744
00:31:17,975 --> 00:31:21,829
We then make the findings
on the property,

745
00:31:21,829 --> 00:31:24,124
on the area where
the home side

746
00:31:24,124 --> 00:31:25,189
will be the one to three

747
00:31:25,189 --> 00:31:27,110
acre area designated.

748
00:31:27,110 --> 00:31:29,660
We make the same
findings for that area.

749
00:31:29,660 --> 00:31:31,579
We approve the
non-pharm dwelling,

750
00:31:31,579 --> 00:31:33,500
then we approve
the parcel and

751
00:31:33,500 --> 00:31:36,749
require disqualification
on that parcel,

752
00:31:36,940 --> 00:31:39,349
but no disqualification on

753
00:31:39,349 --> 00:31:41,089
the other 18 acres now.

754
00:31:41,089 --> 00:31:47,150
And that is
with a covenant

755
00:31:47,150 --> 00:31:51,020
that's with a covenant

756
00:31:51,020 --> 00:31:52,339
that says that it cannot

757
00:31:52,339 --> 00:31:55,949
be sold separately
from the residual.

758
00:32:01,690 --> 00:32:04,759
It's been in
our regulations

759
00:32:04,759 --> 00:32:07,265
since we were
acknowledged and

760
00:32:07,265 --> 00:32:10,579
83 and it's a practice

761
00:32:10,579 --> 00:32:13,399
that we have completed.

762
00:32:13,399 --> 00:32:15,080
It is one of the
issues that we're

763
00:32:15,080 --> 00:32:18,304
discussing through
periodic review.

764
00:32:18,304 --> 00:32:20,149
What I assumed that

765
00:32:20,149 --> 00:32:21,859
the reason for that
is that you want

766
00:32:21,859 --> 00:32:24,500
the only real rationale
for it is to allow

767
00:32:24,500 --> 00:32:25,579
the individual to keep

768
00:32:25,579 --> 00:32:28,325
their farm assessment
on that other 18 acres.

769
00:32:28,325 --> 00:32:31,129
It actually 3 " them
to do something with

770
00:32:31,129 --> 00:32:32,720
the other 18
acres rather than

771
00:32:32,720 --> 00:32:34,969
allowing it to become
a fire hazard? Yes.

772
00:32:34,969 --> 00:32:36,559
Why would it become
a fire hazard if

773
00:32:36,559 --> 00:32:39,270
they didn't have the
assembly can't grow it.

774
00:32:39,400 --> 00:32:40,940
I guess.

775
00:32:40,940 --> 00:32:42,260
Well, I wouldn't change

776
00:32:42,260 --> 00:32:44,399
it for them other
than the cost.

777
00:32:44,970 --> 00:32:47,305
If they're not
managing it,

778
00:32:47,305 --> 00:32:48,669
if they're not
working the land

779
00:32:48,669 --> 00:32:49,975
in some fashion.

780
00:32:49,975 --> 00:32:51,909
I understand that.
But why would them

781
00:32:51,909 --> 00:32:54,130
losing their farms
assessment on the other 18

782
00:32:54,130 --> 00:32:55,989
caused them to
change their mind

783
00:32:55,989 --> 00:32:58,555
about how they're
going to deal with it.

784
00:32:58,555 --> 00:33:00,714
I don't think they can
live in the country.

785
00:33:00,714 --> 00:33:02,365
Are we wouldn't
live out there.

786
00:33:02,365 --> 00:33:04,704
I don't know that
I could say that.

787
00:33:04,704 --> 00:33:07,780
But you're talking
and economic issues,

788
00:33:07,780 --> 00:33:09,340
should they be paying on

789
00:33:09,340 --> 00:33:11,844
20 acres of residential
land at taxes

790
00:33:11,844 --> 00:33:14,230
if state law allows

791
00:33:14,230 --> 00:33:16,599
them to have a pharmacist,

792
00:33:16,599 --> 00:33:18,835
if they were
appropriately zoned.

793
00:33:18,835 --> 00:33:20,229
And I think it
comes back to this.

794
00:33:20,229 --> 00:33:21,699
If we recognize them as

795
00:33:21,699 --> 00:33:24,205
non resource on which
they really are,

796
00:33:24,205 --> 00:33:26,594
they be allowed to
have the pharmacist.

797
00:33:26,594 --> 00:33:28,459
But because there's only a

798
00:33:28,459 --> 00:33:31,204
few, they can't have it.

799
00:33:31,204 --> 00:33:33,830
I think I think
the issue is

800
00:33:33,830 --> 00:33:36,169
that it's not that it's
not a legal issue.

801
00:33:36,169 --> 00:33:37,609
It's the largest

802
00:33:37,609 --> 00:33:39,440
side-by-side
philosophical issue is

803
00:33:39,440 --> 00:33:41,480
this the legislature is
wrestling with right

804
00:33:41,480 --> 00:33:42,049
now and they may

805
00:33:42,049 --> 00:33:43,744
resolve it here in
the next two months.

806
00:33:43,744 --> 00:33:45,050
But it's the question of

807
00:33:45,050 --> 00:33:46,265
what was the intention

808
00:33:46,265 --> 00:33:48,965
of giving up in a farm
deferral for people?

809
00:33:48,965 --> 00:33:51,320
And Hector who can tell
us since he was there

810
00:33:51,320 --> 00:33:54,005
when it was adopted,
the intention was,

811
00:33:54,005 --> 00:33:55,880
I think that you

812
00:33:55,880 --> 00:33:58,009
would give a benefit
to people who were

813
00:33:58,009 --> 00:34:00,110
serious farmers to have to

814
00:34:00,110 --> 00:34:02,960
compensate them
for having E,

815
00:34:02,960 --> 00:34:05,149
a few zoning,
compensate them

816
00:34:05,149 --> 00:34:06,859
for not being able to

817
00:34:06,859 --> 00:34:07,579
do as much with

818
00:34:07,579 --> 00:34:09,604
their properties
they would like to.

819
00:34:09,604 --> 00:34:12,545
To keep land in actual
active farming,

820
00:34:12,545 --> 00:34:13,910
not as a way of giving

821
00:34:13,910 --> 00:34:15,200
a tax deferral for people

822
00:34:15,200 --> 00:34:16,490
who basically
just want to have

823
00:34:16,490 --> 00:34:18,094
a house in the
country, rural farms.

824
00:34:18,094 --> 00:34:19,310
So there's an equity issue

825
00:34:19,310 --> 00:34:21,109
there because you
realize of course

826
00:34:21,109 --> 00:34:22,220
the other people in

827
00:34:22,220 --> 00:34:24,259
med fruit and the
people in Ashland

828
00:34:24,259 --> 00:34:26,749
are paying are subsidizing

829
00:34:26,749 --> 00:34:29,104
those people for
living out there.

830
00:34:29,104 --> 00:34:31,160
And so it's a question

831
00:34:31,160 --> 00:34:32,269
that philosophical
question for

832
00:34:32,269 --> 00:34:34,039
your county
commissioners and

833
00:34:34,039 --> 00:34:36,320
for you as staff in
terms of advising them,

834
00:34:36,320 --> 00:34:38,150
what do you think
that's fair,

835
00:34:38,150 --> 00:34:40,520
regardless of what
the law says?

836
00:34:40,520 --> 00:34:43,024
To be encouraging
people to

837
00:34:43,024 --> 00:34:44,659
basically violate
the intent

838
00:34:44,659 --> 00:34:45,950
of the law, maybe
not the letter.

839
00:34:45,950 --> 00:34:46,520
I understand.

840
00:34:46,520 --> 00:34:48,080
That's not the
letter of the law.

841
00:34:48,080 --> 00:34:49,940
The whether that is

842
00:34:49,940 --> 00:34:52,144
philosophically something
you think is good.

843
00:34:52,144 --> 00:34:53,404
Okay.

844
00:34:53,404 --> 00:34:55,829
Yeah. I make a comment.

845
00:34:56,080 --> 00:34:58,910
If I understand
you correctly,

846
00:34:58,910 --> 00:35:05,669
to say that when the
three acres goes out?

847
00:35:06,100 --> 00:35:07,805
Yes.

848
00:35:07,805 --> 00:35:11,810
So only the residual
stays on farm?

849
00:35:11,810 --> 00:35:12,605
Yes.

850
00:35:12,605 --> 00:35:15,440
If it qualifies the
18 acres stays on,

851
00:35:15,440 --> 00:35:17,525
there may be an incentive

852
00:35:17,525 --> 00:35:20,090
for that to happen from

853
00:35:20,090 --> 00:35:22,519
the standpoint
of if it can be

854
00:35:22,519 --> 00:35:26,120
used for two or three
years for pasture?

855
00:35:26,120 --> 00:35:29,089
Only out was
there for ten.

856
00:35:29,089 --> 00:35:30,275
Keeps them catalogued.

857
00:35:30,275 --> 00:35:31,970
Please keep your
grades down,

858
00:35:31,970 --> 00:35:33,139
which in turn would help

859
00:35:33,139 --> 00:35:34,220
with fire protection,

860
00:35:34,220 --> 00:35:35,104
those kinds of things.

861
00:35:35,104 --> 00:35:36,920
Now, maybe that's
the right.

862
00:35:36,920 --> 00:35:38,329
That's what she said.

863
00:35:38,329 --> 00:35:39,470
But I asked her
the question.

864
00:35:39,470 --> 00:35:40,895
If they didn't
get the farm

865
00:35:40,895 --> 00:35:43,085
assessments on
that other 18,

866
00:35:43,085 --> 00:35:45,229
why would they still not
run the two Academy?

867
00:35:45,229 --> 00:35:45,499
Yeah.

868
00:35:45,499 --> 00:35:47,359
They can sell a parcel.

869
00:35:47,359 --> 00:35:49,279
So I understand that
unless and it's all

870
00:35:49,279 --> 00:35:51,290
sold it 20 acre block.

871
00:35:51,290 --> 00:35:51,559
Yeah.

872
00:35:51,559 --> 00:35:53,060
So the question
is, why would they

873
00:35:53,060 --> 00:35:54,739
not run the cattle
out there if

874
00:35:54,739 --> 00:35:56,299
they didn't get
pharmacists can get

875
00:35:56,299 --> 00:35:58,459
the farm deferral on.

876
00:35:58,459 --> 00:36:03,140
It, acts as a as
a total unit.

877
00:36:03,140 --> 00:36:07,489
It would take away the
insanity, be fine,

878
00:36:07,489 --> 00:36:08,689
keep the pasture down,

879
00:36:08,689 --> 00:36:09,500
make a little off

880
00:36:09,500 --> 00:36:10,430
that be why would
it take away

881
00:36:10,430 --> 00:36:13,170
the incentive to take
away the incentive?

882
00:36:13,170 --> 00:36:15,684
Because it frees
the taxes.

883
00:36:15,684 --> 00:36:16,990
They would be taxed as

884
00:36:16,990 --> 00:36:18,669
a as 238 years

885
00:36:18,669 --> 00:36:21,234
is what it becomes
a home site, Mr.

886
00:36:21,234 --> 00:36:22,389
Chair. Alright. Alright.

887
00:36:22,389 --> 00:36:23,935
Point right there.

888
00:36:23,935 --> 00:36:25,570
There's even a
bigger point here.

889
00:36:25,570 --> 00:36:28,119
When they go non-farm
on their house,

890
00:36:28,119 --> 00:36:29,200
they're going to
pay more taxes

891
00:36:29,200 --> 00:36:30,400
than they would have
if they whole thing,

892
00:36:30,400 --> 00:36:32,470
it's stayed on ESU
because you lose

893
00:36:32,470 --> 00:36:34,629
that preference for the
acre under the house,

894
00:36:34,629 --> 00:36:35,260
which is going to raise

895
00:36:35,260 --> 00:36:36,520
the tax farmer and they're

896
00:36:36,520 --> 00:36:38,500
going to win by
getting their,

897
00:36:38,500 --> 00:36:41,319
their small acreage in
the FU, this outside.

898
00:36:41,319 --> 00:36:43,570
So we want to put a house.

899
00:36:43,570 --> 00:36:45,609
So they're
willing, they're

900
00:36:45,609 --> 00:36:47,710
willing to pay
the higher taxes.

901
00:36:47,710 --> 00:36:49,360
The thing that's your
thing is difficult

902
00:36:49,360 --> 00:36:50,770
is that the
county has made

903
00:36:50,770 --> 00:36:53,439
a determination that
the whole parsable

904
00:36:53,439 --> 00:36:55,769
is unsuitable for farming.

905
00:36:55,769 --> 00:36:59,300
That's the determination
has been made yet.

906
00:36:59,300 --> 00:37:01,265
Then they turn
around and say,

907
00:37:01,265 --> 00:37:02,539
we're going to
get let you keep

908
00:37:02,539 --> 00:37:04,144
farm deferral on the 1800s

909
00:37:04,144 --> 00:37:06,709
because there's some under

910
00:37:06,709 --> 00:37:08,884
a legal quirk of the law,

911
00:37:08,884 --> 00:37:10,249
they can get
farmed deferral.

912
00:37:10,249 --> 00:37:11,660
And that's the
question I'm having.

913
00:37:11,660 --> 00:37:12,409
They've made it they

914
00:37:12,409 --> 00:37:13,790
have made a determination.

915
00:37:13,790 --> 00:37:15,110
It is the whole parcel

916
00:37:15,110 --> 00:37:16,879
is unsuitable for farming.

917
00:37:16,879 --> 00:37:18,455
That's what they've
determined.

918
00:37:18,455 --> 00:37:20,029
Is that in fact correct?

919
00:37:20,029 --> 00:37:21,094
You determine yes.

920
00:37:21,094 --> 00:37:23,450
Parcel is unsuitable
for farming,

921
00:37:23,450 --> 00:37:28,730
your assessor continuous
special assessment?

922
00:37:28,730 --> 00:37:30,065
That's correct.

923
00:37:30,065 --> 00:37:32,000
Justify that. How can the

924
00:37:32,000 --> 00:37:37,759
count it is considered

925
00:37:37,759 --> 00:37:40,620
members asking thank you.

926
00:37:44,920 --> 00:37:47,090
Sue will answered
Are there any

927
00:37:47,090 --> 00:37:48,499
other questions for me?

928
00:37:48,499 --> 00:37:50,584
Perhaps, but
don't go away.

929
00:37:50,584 --> 00:37:52,859
We like to talk to you.

930
00:37:55,360 --> 00:37:59,300
We have a problem that has

931
00:37:59,300 --> 00:38:02,884
evolved over the last
ten years, okay?

932
00:38:02,884 --> 00:38:09,559
And as we unravel
the whole puzzle,

933
00:38:09,559 --> 00:38:11,689
I think Carrie
Lee wrote you

934
00:38:11,689 --> 00:38:14,000
a memo that
outlined the steps.

935
00:38:14,000 --> 00:38:15,439
I wasn't involved in

936
00:38:15,439 --> 00:38:17,119
this process
ten years ago.

937
00:38:17,119 --> 00:38:18,440
And so I really can't.

938
00:38:18,440 --> 00:38:21,154
Tell you a specific
issue by issue,

939
00:38:21,154 --> 00:38:23,449
how this thing got
into the naught

940
00:38:23,449 --> 00:38:26,374
without having the
script in front of me.

941
00:38:26,374 --> 00:38:31,865
But I do know that the
miss zoning occurred.

942
00:38:31,865 --> 00:38:35,329
It was sort of a trade-off
because basically,

943
00:38:35,329 --> 00:38:38,045
as I understand or
acknowledgment,

944
00:38:38,045 --> 00:38:39,739
LCDs who was concerned

945
00:38:39,739 --> 00:38:41,569
with the numbers
of acres that

946
00:38:41,569 --> 00:38:45,019
were any of you who went
to the CAC process?

947
00:38:45,019 --> 00:38:47,150
We came out with
about 50 to

948
00:38:47,150 --> 00:38:53,509
75,000 acres that were
actually a few land.

949
00:38:53,509 --> 00:38:56,480
Brought it to LCD see.

950
00:38:56,480 --> 00:38:59,179
And they said, No,

951
00:38:59,179 --> 00:39:00,665
we won't acknowledge you.

952
00:39:00,665 --> 00:39:02,434
With only those few acres,

953
00:39:02,434 --> 00:39:05,000
you must meet at
least this percentage

954
00:39:05,000 --> 00:39:07,319
of your land ESU.

955
00:39:07,780 --> 00:39:11,044
So in order to
get acknowledged,

956
00:39:11,044 --> 00:39:12,934
there were some trade-offs
that were made.

957
00:39:12,934 --> 00:39:15,064
They said, Okay, Okay.

958
00:39:15,064 --> 00:39:17,059
If you say, we

959
00:39:17,059 --> 00:39:19,069
must have this
much in EF view,

960
00:39:19,069 --> 00:39:22,939
we know that that isn't
really farmable land.

961
00:39:22,939 --> 00:39:25,040
But maybe, maybe
the incentive

962
00:39:25,040 --> 00:39:26,569
will be for people
to go out there

963
00:39:26,569 --> 00:39:28,280
and use it as foreign
land if they get

964
00:39:28,280 --> 00:39:30,559
sun it with some kind
of a tax break on it.

965
00:39:30,559 --> 00:39:32,449
So the trade-off is okay,

966
00:39:32,449 --> 00:39:33,770
we'll call it e FU,

967
00:39:33,770 --> 00:39:35,854
but we have to be
allowed to do something.

968
00:39:35,854 --> 00:39:38,990
Some of these
manipulations, uh,

969
00:39:38,990 --> 00:39:41,329
to still allow
people because this

970
00:39:41,329 --> 00:39:42,590
limits what
people can do on

971
00:39:42,590 --> 00:39:44,765
their land when
you rezone it ESU.

972
00:39:44,765 --> 00:39:48,169
So then the trade-off
is we have to

973
00:39:48,169 --> 00:39:50,029
do some convolutions to

974
00:39:50,029 --> 00:39:51,830
make all this workout.

975
00:39:51,830 --> 00:39:53,479
It was kind of a
bottom-line issue.

976
00:39:53,479 --> 00:39:54,560
Okay. If we're
going to restrict

977
00:39:54,560 --> 00:39:55,759
what they do
on their land,

978
00:39:55,759 --> 00:39:57,169
we still have to have

979
00:39:57,169 --> 00:39:58,369
some method of allowing

980
00:39:58,369 --> 00:40:00,719
them to do
something on it.

981
00:40:02,620 --> 00:40:05,569
It actually has worked.

982
00:40:05,569 --> 00:40:07,715
If you drive around and
look at these places,

983
00:40:07,715 --> 00:40:10,355
I personally know
of a lot of people

984
00:40:10,355 --> 00:40:14,404
that are living that
once the rural life,

985
00:40:14,404 --> 00:40:16,280
that if they didn't have

986
00:40:16,280 --> 00:40:18,709
the Green Belt
special assessment,

987
00:40:18,709 --> 00:40:20,659
they would not bother

988
00:40:20,659 --> 00:40:24,049
with any of their
intensive farm practices.

989
00:40:24,049 --> 00:40:25,429
Now, I don't know how many

990
00:40:25,429 --> 00:40:26,419
of you are farmers.

991
00:40:26,419 --> 00:40:29,119
I know Hector is and
I know John, yes.

992
00:40:29,119 --> 00:40:32,075
But it's a hard life.

993
00:40:32,075 --> 00:40:33,949
And if you have animals
and everything,

994
00:40:33,949 --> 00:40:35,389
you're out there and

995
00:40:35,389 --> 00:40:37,039
you're wrestling
with this and it is

996
00:40:37,039 --> 00:40:39,259
inconvenient to
a lifestyle when

997
00:40:39,259 --> 00:40:40,519
you have to work
an eight hour

998
00:40:40,519 --> 00:40:42,035
job on top of it.

999
00:40:42,035 --> 00:40:43,489
There are an awful
lot of people in

1000
00:40:43,489 --> 00:40:44,749
Jackson County that are

1001
00:40:44,749 --> 00:40:45,950
farming right now because

1002
00:40:45,950 --> 00:40:47,449
they get special
assessment.

1003
00:40:47,449 --> 00:40:49,130
They're living in
the rural lands and

1004
00:40:49,130 --> 00:40:50,299
their farming
because they get

1005
00:40:50,299 --> 00:40:51,394
special assessment,

1006
00:40:51,394 --> 00:40:53,030
it's been the incentive

1007
00:40:53,030 --> 00:40:55,160
to really keep
that farmland.

1008
00:40:55,160 --> 00:40:57,319
So that part of
it's working.

1009
00:40:57,319 --> 00:40:58,819
You're saying
it's dishonest?

1010
00:40:58,819 --> 00:41:00,379
Well, it the whole

1011
00:41:00,379 --> 00:41:01,880
thing was dishonest
the way it was

1012
00:41:01,880 --> 00:41:03,695
zone because we
were trying to meet

1013
00:41:03,695 --> 00:41:06,679
a target amount of
land for EF few.

1014
00:41:06,679 --> 00:41:08,779
That did not really
describe what

1015
00:41:08,779 --> 00:41:11,105
our land was. Well, Okay.

1016
00:41:11,105 --> 00:41:12,470
Hector wants us
to move through

1017
00:41:12,470 --> 00:41:14,180
this process faster and

1018
00:41:14,180 --> 00:41:15,440
nobody can agree
with you more,

1019
00:41:15,440 --> 00:41:16,579
Hector, I'm real tired of

1020
00:41:16,579 --> 00:41:18,680
being beat up
over the numbers.

1021
00:41:18,680 --> 00:41:22,069
But when you have a ten
to 15 year problem,

1022
00:41:22,069 --> 00:41:24,889
you don't just turn
it around overnight.

1023
00:41:24,889 --> 00:41:26,944
Land-use planning,
as you know,

1024
00:41:26,944 --> 00:41:28,130
every time you get an idea

1025
00:41:28,130 --> 00:41:29,209
of something
you want to do,

1026
00:41:29,209 --> 00:41:31,520
well, it's true of the
whole bureaucracy.

1027
00:41:31,520 --> 00:41:33,770
You think of a
really good idea

1028
00:41:33,770 --> 00:41:35,899
to do and you're
at least two years

1029
00:41:35,899 --> 00:41:40,474
till you get it implemented
at a fast rate.

1030
00:41:40,474 --> 00:41:42,349
So we've been
working on this for

1031
00:41:42,349 --> 00:41:44,120
a year or longer.

1032
00:41:44,120 --> 00:41:45,199
You're talking
to the person

1033
00:41:45,199 --> 00:41:46,279
who proposed that
we ought to be able

1034
00:41:46,279 --> 00:41:48,860
to do the whole thing
in one year after 1973.

1035
00:41:48,860 --> 00:41:50,434
And obviously that
didn't happen.

1036
00:41:50,434 --> 00:41:52,775
I know. You really know,

1037
00:41:52,775 --> 00:41:54,860
and we really
will work hard.

1038
00:41:54,860 --> 00:41:57,035
We're very committed
to this process.

1039
00:41:57,035 --> 00:41:58,250
Now we're thrilled that

1040
00:41:58,250 --> 00:41:59,870
we have a plan
to work with

1041
00:41:59,870 --> 00:42:02,089
and we're absolutely going

1042
00:42:02,089 --> 00:42:03,454
to be committed to this,

1043
00:42:03,454 --> 00:42:04,819
are planners that stand at

1044
00:42:04,819 --> 00:42:06,860
the counter every
day dealing

1045
00:42:06,860 --> 00:42:08,569
with these problems
are the ones

1046
00:42:08,569 --> 00:42:09,319
who are really going to

1047
00:42:09,319 --> 00:42:10,370
think it's in
the long run.

1048
00:42:10,370 --> 00:42:12,080
And Orlando nurse, we have

1049
00:42:12,080 --> 00:42:13,340
more applications
this year

1050
00:42:13,340 --> 00:42:14,314
than we've ever had.

1051
00:42:14,314 --> 00:42:16,099
You'll be sorry to hear.

1052
00:42:16,099 --> 00:42:18,109
So we're going crazy.

1053
00:42:18,109 --> 00:42:21,899
What would happen when
somebody came in?

1054
00:42:22,930 --> 00:42:33,964
I think you're kind of
off and on the 20th,

1055
00:42:33,964 --> 00:42:37,939
farming was

1056
00:42:37,939 --> 00:42:41,489
the whole parcel
went all off-farm.

1057
00:42:43,900 --> 00:42:48,454
The assessment and
planning are two separate.

1058
00:42:48,454 --> 00:42:52,830
We don't determine that
whole thing come off.

1059
00:42:52,930 --> 00:42:56,089
They have to pay ten
years back taxes.

1060
00:42:56,089 --> 00:42:57,499
Well, whatever,
that's very

1061
00:42:57,499 --> 00:42:59,880
unfair to the person.

1062
00:43:02,560 --> 00:43:05,599
If it's, if it's
marginal land,

1063
00:43:05,599 --> 00:43:08,615
if it's secondary
land or non resource.

1064
00:43:08,615 --> 00:43:11,315
If it's missed on land,

1065
00:43:11,315 --> 00:43:12,980
I just tell him to

1066
00:43:12,980 --> 00:43:15,299
wait until we get
it corrected.

1067
00:43:16,450 --> 00:43:21,769
See if there are too
many problems in that.

1068
00:43:21,769 --> 00:43:24,649
We don't determine
what's assessed,

1069
00:43:24,649 --> 00:43:27,769
what we don't make
those determinations.

1070
00:43:27,769 --> 00:43:29,989
So you're talking
to a department.

1071
00:43:29,989 --> 00:43:31,819
I mean, we have no
control over that.

1072
00:43:31,819 --> 00:43:33,689
I think.

1073
00:43:34,120 --> 00:43:36,680
For this finding is that

1074
00:43:36,680 --> 00:43:39,365
the whole parcel come
off a farm assessment,

1075
00:43:39,365 --> 00:43:42,079
whatever it is
under the house?

1076
00:43:42,079 --> 00:43:45,020
I wouldn't want to
say that if fair

1077
00:43:45,020 --> 00:43:48,649
and in the county that
I'm involved with,

1078
00:43:48,649 --> 00:43:51,560
if we approve a
non-farm dwelling,

1079
00:43:51,560 --> 00:43:53,179
that entire
parcel comes off

1080
00:43:53,179 --> 00:43:59,539
and the community
development department,

1081
00:43:59,539 --> 00:44:00,980
which has the
Planning Division and

1082
00:44:00,980 --> 00:44:02,150
the assessors
department and

1083
00:44:02,150 --> 00:44:03,049
work hand in hand.

1084
00:44:03,049 --> 00:44:05,014
There aren't those
inconsistencies.

1085
00:44:05,014 --> 00:44:06,560
So to say that if you're

1086
00:44:06,560 --> 00:44:08,255
completely independent
of it isn't,

1087
00:44:08,255 --> 00:44:09,860
isn't really true because

1088
00:44:09,860 --> 00:44:11,435
we've been trying to
make it work together.

1089
00:44:11,435 --> 00:44:14,939
Those are part of the
same jurisdiction.

1090
00:44:15,760 --> 00:44:18,290
The problem is that
we're dealing with

1091
00:44:18,290 --> 00:44:20,300
a system that was screwed

1092
00:44:20,300 --> 00:44:23,374
up ten years ago
for us to make

1093
00:44:23,374 --> 00:44:25,520
an immediate policy
change without

1094
00:44:25,520 --> 00:44:27,889
doing going through
this process.

1095
00:44:27,889 --> 00:44:30,965
I guess I'm unwilling
to really look at that.

1096
00:44:30,965 --> 00:44:34,340
I think that you're well,

1097
00:44:34,340 --> 00:44:35,990
you lose a lot
of credibility

1098
00:44:35,990 --> 00:44:37,220
with your public because

1099
00:44:37,220 --> 00:44:38,600
all of a sudden there one

1100
00:44:38,600 --> 00:44:40,354
thing and now there
another thing.

1101
00:44:40,354 --> 00:44:41,570
We've done that before,

1102
00:44:41,570 --> 00:44:43,009
and that's why
they really don't

1103
00:44:43,009 --> 00:44:45,019
like LCD sea or
land use planning

1104
00:44:45,019 --> 00:44:47,210
because so many times
things have been

1105
00:44:47,210 --> 00:44:48,889
changed without any public

1106
00:44:48,889 --> 00:44:50,090
input into the process.

1107
00:44:50,090 --> 00:44:51,799
They all of a
sudden find out

1108
00:44:51,799 --> 00:44:53,240
some outrageous
thing happens

1109
00:44:53,240 --> 00:44:54,559
that yesterday
it was this,

1110
00:44:54,559 --> 00:44:56,764
this way and today
it's this way.

1111
00:44:56,764 --> 00:45:01,430
And it's there's

1112
00:45:01,430 --> 00:45:03,155
just no consistency
in policy.

1113
00:45:03,155 --> 00:45:04,615
What I think we
have to do is go

1114
00:45:04,615 --> 00:45:06,170
through a process
to change it to

1115
00:45:06,170 --> 00:45:08,180
this logical process and

1116
00:45:08,180 --> 00:45:09,994
not try to change
it overnight.

1117
00:45:09,994 --> 00:45:12,499
The Supreme Court
decision has

1118
00:45:12,499 --> 00:45:13,850
changed the way
we do business

1119
00:45:13,850 --> 00:45:16,009
now in a big way.

1120
00:45:16,009 --> 00:45:18,859
But we're trying to
work through a process.

1121
00:45:18,859 --> 00:45:20,254
And I guess what
you're asking,

1122
00:45:20,254 --> 00:45:22,310
I'm saying that the

1123
00:45:22,310 --> 00:45:26,539
people that are subject
to our policies,

1124
00:45:26,539 --> 00:45:29,570
I think these real
fast policy changes

1125
00:45:29,570 --> 00:45:31,474
to start simply unfair,

1126
00:45:31,474 --> 00:45:32,569
willing to look at

1127
00:45:32,569 --> 00:45:33,905
this issue that
we're raising.

1128
00:45:33,905 --> 00:45:37,325
Totally I totally
agree with the issue.

1129
00:45:37,325 --> 00:45:39,770
In fact, I've been
the one protesting

1130
00:45:39,770 --> 00:45:42,034
all along that our whole
system is dishonest.

1131
00:45:42,034 --> 00:45:44,854
And the minute I
came into office,

1132
00:45:44,854 --> 00:45:46,430
I said, I don't
see how we can

1133
00:45:46,430 --> 00:45:48,140
deal with a system
that works this way.

1134
00:45:48,140 --> 00:45:50,314
We just can't deal
with it anymore.

1135
00:45:50,314 --> 00:45:51,620
Then came the supreme

1136
00:45:51,620 --> 00:45:53,029
court decisions
and of course,

1137
00:45:53,029 --> 00:45:56,989
the the letter from
Susan that said,

1138
00:45:56,989 --> 00:45:59,689
We think you're
operating illegally,

1139
00:45:59,689 --> 00:46:02,405
but we had already
determined by then

1140
00:46:02,405 --> 00:46:03,380
we were going
to go through

1141
00:46:03,380 --> 00:46:04,865
a process to
straighten it out.

1142
00:46:04,865 --> 00:46:05,660
No matter what, we're

1143
00:46:05,660 --> 00:46:06,799
going to devote the time,

1144
00:46:06,799 --> 00:46:08,270
the energy that miles on

1145
00:46:08,270 --> 00:46:09,500
the freeway to do whatever

1146
00:46:09,500 --> 00:46:10,819
we have to do to
straighten it out.

1147
00:46:10,819 --> 00:46:11,959
And I'm really
happy to say

1148
00:46:11,959 --> 00:46:13,339
that the department

1149
00:46:13,339 --> 00:46:15,920
has been more than
helpful and listening,

1150
00:46:15,920 --> 00:46:17,659
and I don't know if
it's a new board or if

1151
00:46:17,659 --> 00:46:19,730
it's the you know,

1152
00:46:19,730 --> 00:46:22,070
what it is, but the
whole situation

1153
00:46:22,070 --> 00:46:23,299
has come together to

1154
00:46:23,299 --> 00:46:24,679
make us change
the process.

1155
00:46:24,679 --> 00:46:26,360
And I think it's
for the best.

1156
00:46:26,360 --> 00:46:28,385
Credit goes to your staff.

1157
00:46:28,385 --> 00:46:30,140
They're wonderful.

1158
00:46:30,140 --> 00:46:32,660
Well, we're not asking

1159
00:46:32,660 --> 00:46:34,160
these questions way
of beating you up,

1160
00:46:34,160 --> 00:46:35,525
but I understand that

1161
00:46:35,525 --> 00:46:43,220
your problem is not all,

1162
00:46:43,220 --> 00:46:45,064
but a lot of our
questions are because

1163
00:46:45,064 --> 00:46:47,464
we're trying to work
through these issues.

1164
00:46:47,464 --> 00:46:50,119
I could give you
another hour.

1165
00:46:50,119 --> 00:46:53,195
I give you another
hour on on

1166
00:46:53,195 --> 00:46:55,700
us trying to maintain
water systems and

1167
00:46:55,700 --> 00:46:56,959
so we can keep at least

1168
00:46:56,959 --> 00:47:01,039
52,300 acres
in irrigation.

1169
00:47:01,039 --> 00:47:05,284
And this whole process
has to work together.

1170
00:47:05,284 --> 00:47:06,470
And it's just a matter

1171
00:47:06,470 --> 00:47:07,459
of trying to
straighten out

1172
00:47:07,459 --> 00:47:08,870
a whole bunch of
things and so we can

1173
00:47:08,870 --> 00:47:10,909
actually get into the
planning process.

1174
00:47:10,909 --> 00:47:13,730
Mr. Chairman, earlier,
was the comment

1175
00:47:13,730 --> 00:47:21,530
made 200,000 acres really

1176
00:47:21,530 --> 00:47:23,615
shake out as exceptions?

1177
00:47:23,615 --> 00:47:25,264
No.

1178
00:47:25,264 --> 00:47:28,489
Non resource
and exception.

1179
00:47:28,489 --> 00:47:31,950
And there was there was
one little piece that

1180
00:47:32,290 --> 00:47:39,124
falls between resource
and secondary.

1181
00:47:39,124 --> 00:47:42,780
Secondary resource
marginal.

1182
00:47:43,450 --> 00:47:46,535
So what falls between

1183
00:47:46,535 --> 00:47:49,489
force and exception error?

1184
00:47:49,489 --> 00:47:51,680
What's a non resource?

1185
00:47:51,680 --> 00:47:52,909
But she said
there were there

1186
00:47:52,909 --> 00:47:54,050
were 200,000 acres,

1187
00:47:54,050 --> 00:47:56,929
roughly a quarter of it
would be exceptions.

1188
00:47:56,929 --> 00:47:59,210
F would be non resource.

1189
00:47:59,210 --> 00:48:00,860
Order was up
for discussion.

1190
00:48:00,860 --> 00:48:02,549
Is that what you said?

1191
00:48:02,560 --> 00:48:06,304
Both secondary
or what part?

1192
00:48:06,304 --> 00:48:12,110
Part of my question is
the half that would be

1193
00:48:12,110 --> 00:48:14,345
non resource it's
not secondary

1194
00:48:14,345 --> 00:48:16,429
versus primary resource is

1195
00:48:16,429 --> 00:48:18,139
not exceptional,
or what is it?

1196
00:48:18,139 --> 00:48:18,980
Okay.

1197
00:48:18,980 --> 00:48:20,450
Here's, here's
the piece that

1198
00:48:20,450 --> 00:48:21,740
I was going to
get familiar with

1199
00:48:21,740 --> 00:48:23,659
non resource to helping
somebody helped

1200
00:48:23,659 --> 00:48:26,000
me understand what
non resources is.

1201
00:48:26,000 --> 00:48:28,819
Plus seven soils
non-irrigated.

1202
00:48:28,819 --> 00:48:30,425
You can't do anything.

1203
00:48:30,425 --> 00:48:31,640
There is a procedure for

1204
00:48:31,640 --> 00:48:32,855
getting non resource.

1205
00:48:32,855 --> 00:48:34,940
It's been used very
rarely in the program,

1206
00:48:34,940 --> 00:48:36,230
but I think either
Jim or Craig

1207
00:48:36,230 --> 00:48:37,879
could tell you briefly
if you want to

1208
00:48:37,879 --> 00:48:40,340
take them after
after or I want

1209
00:48:40,340 --> 00:48:41,599
to tell you about
little piece that

1210
00:48:41,599 --> 00:48:43,114
Laurel didn't
tell you about.

1211
00:48:43,114 --> 00:48:46,010
We have 22,500 acres that

1212
00:48:46,010 --> 00:48:49,235
our croplands that are
not non-irrigated.

1213
00:48:49,235 --> 00:48:50,419
This is a short-term

1214
00:48:50,419 --> 00:48:51,800
crop that grows
in the spring.

1215
00:48:51,800 --> 00:48:54,904
It's like a spring
wheat grass seed crop.

1216
00:48:54,904 --> 00:48:56,689
22,500 acres.

1217
00:48:56,689 --> 00:48:59,210
So that would
probably fall in

1218
00:48:59,210 --> 00:49:02,029
our secondary secondary
resource category,

1219
00:49:02,029 --> 00:49:03,230
but it is non-irrigated.

1220
00:49:03,230 --> 00:49:04,429
And I really wanted you

1221
00:49:04,429 --> 00:49:05,720
to hear that little
piece because

1222
00:49:05,720 --> 00:49:06,860
it's important
to know that we

1223
00:49:06,860 --> 00:49:09,169
do have some of that.

1224
00:49:09,169 --> 00:49:11,135
It just happens to be flat

1225
00:49:11,135 --> 00:49:15,260
and a better
class of soil.

1226
00:49:15,260 --> 00:49:17,690
One. Go ahead, John.

1227
00:49:17,690 --> 00:49:20,930
I'd like to bring

1228
00:49:20,930 --> 00:49:22,925
us to some kind of
a summary here.

1229
00:49:22,925 --> 00:49:25,115
If I would like to ask

1230
00:49:25,115 --> 00:49:29,554
staff and ask to Laurel,

1231
00:49:29,554 --> 00:49:31,399
how far apart are we

1232
00:49:31,399 --> 00:49:34,264
here with staff
recommendations?

1233
00:49:34,264 --> 00:49:36,949
As far as you're
concerned?

1234
00:49:36,949 --> 00:49:39,229
That was one piece
that had to do

1235
00:49:39,229 --> 00:49:43,444
with Prime
resource nephew.

1236
00:49:43,444 --> 00:49:46,100
And when we establish

1237
00:49:46,100 --> 00:49:48,440
the stiffer
regulations on that,

1238
00:49:48,440 --> 00:49:49,760
and we've asked that

1239
00:49:49,760 --> 00:49:51,470
that fall within the scope

1240
00:49:51,470 --> 00:49:54,230
of one-way the part

1241
00:49:54,230 --> 00:49:56,660
of the plan when we do

1242
00:49:56,660 --> 00:49:58,669
the other
designations that

1243
00:49:58,669 --> 00:50:00,725
we do that primary source,

1244
00:50:00,725 --> 00:50:04,759
if you land,
then otherwise,

1245
00:50:04,759 --> 00:50:07,099
if we do it now or

1246
00:50:07,099 --> 00:50:10,144
before we sort out
the other categories,

1247
00:50:10,144 --> 00:50:12,589
then we will be again,

1248
00:50:12,589 --> 00:50:14,689
applying that to a lot of

1249
00:50:14,689 --> 00:50:16,940
land that it shouldn't
be applied to.

1250
00:50:16,940 --> 00:50:18,499
So it's just that time

1251
00:50:18,499 --> 00:50:20,405
sequence that we're
looking to ask.

1252
00:50:20,405 --> 00:50:21,890
Well, let's try

1253
00:50:21,890 --> 00:50:23,044
but before you
come to that gym

1254
00:50:23,044 --> 00:50:24,439
because I'd like to

1255
00:50:24,439 --> 00:50:26,869
ask Sue while she's
still our question.

1256
00:50:26,869 --> 00:50:31,790
Let's pretend that all
250,000 of this EF,

1257
00:50:31,790 --> 00:50:36,120
few land was rotten
farmland, no irrigation.

1258
00:50:37,270 --> 00:50:43,265
What, whether,

1259
00:50:43,265 --> 00:50:44,749
what sort of development

1260
00:50:44,749 --> 00:50:46,889
should be allowed on it.

1261
00:50:46,960 --> 00:50:49,190
Farming doesn't
mean that it's good

1262
00:50:49,190 --> 00:50:51,244
for growing houses, right?

1263
00:50:51,244 --> 00:50:56,210
What are the regulations
are in place with

1264
00:50:56,210 --> 00:51:02,330
respect to the the costs,

1265
00:51:02,330 --> 00:51:03,410
the other costs that are

1266
00:51:03,410 --> 00:51:05,480
imposed on the
county roads,

1267
00:51:05,480 --> 00:51:09,079
schools, water system
issues, but run,

1268
00:51:09,079 --> 00:51:11,704
there's no
groundwater because

1269
00:51:11,704 --> 00:51:13,399
people can't get a loan

1270
00:51:13,399 --> 00:51:14,809
if you don't
have water well,

1271
00:51:14,809 --> 00:51:16,370
but let me let
me add that to

1272
00:51:16,370 --> 00:51:18,940
my question about
what is planned well,

1273
00:51:18,940 --> 00:51:21,120
what are the uses?

1274
00:51:21,250 --> 00:51:23,509
Secondary lands,
we call this

1275
00:51:23,509 --> 00:51:25,054
the buildable
serviceable issue.

1276
00:51:25,054 --> 00:51:25,744
Yeah.

1277
00:51:25,744 --> 00:51:28,730
Laura will be familiar
with that argument.

1278
00:51:28,730 --> 00:51:30,349
Ml. So you understand

1279
00:51:30,349 --> 00:51:32,450
those conflicts and
brew with some of

1280
00:51:32,450 --> 00:51:35,750
the cities in your
county because they feel

1281
00:51:35,750 --> 00:51:39,170
like your accounting may

1282
00:51:39,170 --> 00:51:43,294
be grading
nuisances around

1283
00:51:43,294 --> 00:51:45,709
the cities of
small lots that

1284
00:51:45,709 --> 00:51:49,474
prevent for rational
urban expansion.

1285
00:51:49,474 --> 00:51:51,049
And also just the

1286
00:51:51,049 --> 00:51:52,189
energy while

1287
00:51:52,189 --> 00:51:53,749
commuting all these
long distances

1288
00:51:53,749 --> 00:51:55,550
out far reaches of

1289
00:51:55,550 --> 00:51:58,580
the county, so
on and so forth.

1290
00:51:58,580 --> 00:52:01,160
What from your point of
view is there because

1291
00:52:01,160 --> 00:52:03,590
the right way to
plan those lands.

1292
00:52:03,590 --> 00:52:06,199
What jurists,
but let me tell

1293
00:52:06,199 --> 00:52:08,360
you the other issues that

1294
00:52:08,360 --> 00:52:10,190
impact this that I
think have to be

1295
00:52:10,190 --> 00:52:11,720
separated from
secondary latch

1296
00:52:11,720 --> 00:52:12,920
on to the build ability,

1297
00:52:12,920 --> 00:52:15,320
the wildfire and
wildlife issues.

1298
00:52:15,320 --> 00:52:17,945
We have wildlife overlays

1299
00:52:17,945 --> 00:52:19,910
preclude heavy
development in

1300
00:52:19,910 --> 00:52:21,110
most of these areas,

1301
00:52:21,110 --> 00:52:23,570
we have a lot of deer
and elk when arrange

1302
00:52:23,570 --> 00:52:25,130
that the minimum acreage

1303
00:52:25,130 --> 00:52:26,914
you can have 40 acre.

1304
00:52:26,914 --> 00:52:30,199
Okay. So if you have in

1305
00:52:30,199 --> 00:52:32,090
your mind a vision of

1306
00:52:32,090 --> 00:52:34,099
subdivisions out in
the rural lands,

1307
00:52:34,099 --> 00:52:36,274
it's simply won't happen.

1308
00:52:36,274 --> 00:52:37,820
The minimum
acreage that we're

1309
00:52:37,820 --> 00:52:40,160
talking about on
the most densely

1310
00:52:40,160 --> 00:52:42,050
populated out
in rural lands

1311
00:52:42,050 --> 00:52:43,849
where there's
already a lot

1312
00:52:43,849 --> 00:52:47,824
of subdivision and
impact on the area.

1313
00:52:47,824 --> 00:52:49,159
The minimum lot
we're looking

1314
00:52:49,159 --> 00:52:50,659
at as a 20 acre.

1315
00:52:50,659 --> 00:52:51,559
Okay.

1316
00:52:51,559 --> 00:52:54,049
So this is not a
subdivision and this is

1317
00:52:54,049 --> 00:52:56,960
on our least
desirable land.

1318
00:52:56,960 --> 00:52:59,644
This would not be on
our agriculture land.

1319
00:52:59,644 --> 00:53:01,399
It would be an areas that

1320
00:53:01,399 --> 00:53:04,039
already have we
already talked

1321
00:53:04,039 --> 00:53:06,380
about build ability
issues of whether it

1322
00:53:06,380 --> 00:53:08,930
has access to roads
and things like that.

1323
00:53:08,930 --> 00:53:10,760
We're very conscious
of that we

1324
00:53:10,760 --> 00:53:12,530
have we work real

1325
00:53:12,530 --> 00:53:14,479
closely with public
works that has

1326
00:53:14,479 --> 00:53:15,560
a planner that works with

1327
00:53:15,560 --> 00:53:16,640
the planning department.

1328
00:53:16,640 --> 00:53:18,874
This is a rather
new thing for us.

1329
00:53:18,874 --> 00:53:21,559
And they just put

1330
00:53:21,559 --> 00:53:23,179
the Nixon something
if we don't

1331
00:53:23,179 --> 00:53:25,190
have access to
roads out there.

1332
00:53:25,190 --> 00:53:28,610
So the other thing is
that Laura was got into

1333
00:53:28,610 --> 00:53:30,379
a little bit that
we've run into with

1334
00:53:30,379 --> 00:53:32,660
a lot of our applications.

1335
00:53:32,660 --> 00:53:37,039
And the fact that we
are two years into

1336
00:53:37,039 --> 00:53:38,390
a USGS study on

1337
00:53:38,390 --> 00:53:39,889
groundwater is
the fact that we

1338
00:53:39,889 --> 00:53:43,295
have a very fractured
sub strata.

1339
00:53:43,295 --> 00:53:46,925
And so it's extremely
unpredictable.

1340
00:53:46,925 --> 00:53:48,469
Neighbors that live
beside each other,

1341
00:53:48,469 --> 00:53:50,735
one can get 30
gallons per minute.

1342
00:53:50,735 --> 00:53:53,089
The other one barely
two gallons per minute.

1343
00:53:53,089 --> 00:53:54,560
We have a lot of

1344
00:53:54,560 --> 00:53:56,659
those kinds of issues
where people simply

1345
00:53:56,659 --> 00:53:58,640
can't even get a permit

1346
00:53:58,640 --> 00:54:00,680
to build because of that.

1347
00:54:00,680 --> 00:54:03,049
We're also into a
seven-year drought and I

1348
00:54:03,049 --> 00:54:05,449
could tell you
volumes about

1349
00:54:05,449 --> 00:54:07,460
that in what we're

1350
00:54:07,460 --> 00:54:09,499
trying to do to
overcome all of

1351
00:54:09,499 --> 00:54:11,480
these particular
issues just on

1352
00:54:11,480 --> 00:54:13,010
our irrigated
land and some

1353
00:54:13,010 --> 00:54:14,885
of our already
developed plan.

1354
00:54:14,885 --> 00:54:17,105
We don't in any way see

1355
00:54:17,105 --> 00:54:18,319
heavy development out in

1356
00:54:18,319 --> 00:54:19,730
those lands
because of that.

1357
00:54:19,730 --> 00:54:21,394
That's one of the reasons

1358
00:54:21,394 --> 00:54:24,410
that we feel we can.

1359
00:54:24,410 --> 00:54:27,154
We can straighten
out the Reece

1360
00:54:27,154 --> 00:54:30,380
the zoning issues
themselves,

1361
00:54:30,380 --> 00:54:33,440
separate from these,
and deal with all of

1362
00:54:33,440 --> 00:54:34,625
these as they come

1363
00:54:34,625 --> 00:54:36,289
up at the counter
separately,

1364
00:54:36,289 --> 00:54:37,520
it's going to be a lot

1365
00:54:37,520 --> 00:54:40,079
less confusing for people.

1366
00:54:40,120 --> 00:54:42,245
Did Did I get it?

1367
00:54:42,245 --> 00:54:44,099
Did I answer that?

1368
00:54:54,460 --> 00:54:57,030
Absolutely.

1369
00:55:14,730 --> 00:55:19,119
Oh, yeah. They could

1370
00:55:19,119 --> 00:55:21,115
never be sold separately.

1371
00:55:21,115 --> 00:55:23,604
That's ironclad. Yeah.

1372
00:55:23,604 --> 00:55:24,594
Yeah.

1373
00:55:24,594 --> 00:55:27,430
They're mapped
separately, but there

1374
00:55:27,430 --> 00:55:29,289
is a deed restrict

1375
00:55:29,289 --> 00:55:30,640
written right
into the deed,

1376
00:55:30,640 --> 00:55:32,260
a covenant that says
that you cannot

1377
00:55:32,260 --> 00:55:34,030
sell those two
parcels separately.

1378
00:55:34,030 --> 00:55:35,259
There's an
understanding that

1379
00:55:35,259 --> 00:55:36,880
signed by all parties.

1380
00:55:36,880 --> 00:55:38,470
Are they actually
broken into

1381
00:55:38,470 --> 00:55:40,609
two different tax law?

1382
00:55:42,330 --> 00:55:44,800
This is a problem
for us too.

1383
00:55:44,800 --> 00:55:45,954
I want to admit to you,

1384
00:55:45,954 --> 00:55:47,859
I can't tell you
how many surveyors

1385
00:55:47,859 --> 00:55:49,430
they on individuals,
you know,

1386
00:55:49,430 --> 00:55:50,690
how much it costs
to get a survey

1387
00:55:50,690 --> 00:55:52,084
done now, I mean,

1388
00:55:52,084 --> 00:55:54,589
they have to have
this surveyed out to

1389
00:55:54,589 --> 00:55:57,545
get the lines
meets imbalanced.

1390
00:55:57,545 --> 00:55:59,510
They used to call this
a mortgage partition.

1391
00:55:59,510 --> 00:56:00,740
That's the old phrase

1392
00:56:00,740 --> 00:56:03,575
and I had it done
on my place.

1393
00:56:03,575 --> 00:56:06,455
Yeah. Well, I did.

1394
00:56:06,455 --> 00:56:11,060
Except we have farm were
a foreign residents,

1395
00:56:11,060 --> 00:56:15,350
but there are so many
problems with that.

1396
00:56:15,350 --> 00:56:16,760
We have more interests

1397
00:56:16,760 --> 00:56:18,289
than you do and
straightening that mess

1398
00:56:18,289 --> 00:56:19,909
out that has caused

1399
00:56:19,909 --> 00:56:21,559
this nothing but
headaches and I can

1400
00:56:21,559 --> 00:56:23,300
guarantee you
that one out or

1401
00:56:23,300 --> 00:56:24,920
99 people on the face of

1402
00:56:24,920 --> 00:56:28,049
this earth even
understand that issue.

1403
00:56:46,380 --> 00:56:48,700
Generally acres.

1404
00:56:48,700 --> 00:56:50,920
I know they're about
300 thousands that are

1405
00:56:50,920 --> 00:56:53,934
actually considered
agricultural lands.

1406
00:56:53,934 --> 00:56:56,244
Of all different
descriptions.

1407
00:56:56,244 --> 00:56:58,749
You want to know
how many acres

1408
00:56:58,749 --> 00:57:02,269
of private resources
owned lands there are.

1409
00:57:04,140 --> 00:57:06,549
There wouldn't
be any handouts.

1410
00:57:06,549 --> 00:57:10,069
I usually piece
about 800,000 acres.

1411
00:57:10,080 --> 00:57:12,639
We have here we go,

1412
00:57:12,639 --> 00:57:18,255
The Numbers 305711
acres in rural zoning.

1413
00:57:18,255 --> 00:57:23,729
We have 31,500
acres that are yes.

1414
00:57:23,729 --> 00:57:27,045
We have 35,000 acres
and exceptionalities.

1415
00:57:27,045 --> 00:57:30,090
We have 31,500 acres

1416
00:57:30,090 --> 00:57:31,349
within city limits and

1417
00:57:31,349 --> 00:57:33,060
urban growth boundaries.

1418
00:57:33,060 --> 00:57:37,020
The remaining 1,802,880

1419
00:57:37,020 --> 00:57:41,099
acres are resource zoned.

1420
00:57:41,099 --> 00:57:45,289
And some a good portion

1421
00:57:45,289 --> 00:57:48,560
of those that are in
public ownership.

1422
00:57:48,560 --> 00:58:04,339
52%, 1,802,880

1423
00:58:04,339 --> 00:58:06,934
acres of federal land.

1424
00:58:06,934 --> 00:58:10,040
That includes Yeah,
That includes private.

1425
00:58:10,040 --> 00:58:11,510
There's 800 total private

1426
00:58:11,510 --> 00:58:13,339
35.30 to come out

1427
00:58:13,339 --> 00:58:14,779
for real residential
and urban.

1428
00:58:14,779 --> 00:58:18,934
So that leaves 763
private resource zone.

1429
00:58:18,934 --> 00:58:20,779
You're at 52% or

1430
00:58:20,779 --> 00:58:25,739
something publicly on
the federal government.

1431
00:58:32,980 --> 00:58:35,419
If the private
land that is

1432
00:58:35,419 --> 00:58:36,920
currently zoned
as resource.

1433
00:58:36,920 --> 00:58:38,720
But we hope soon

1434
00:58:38,720 --> 00:58:41,969
to be more honest in
her zoning with him.

1435
00:58:47,110 --> 00:58:53,270
1,486,447 acres.

1436
00:58:53,270 --> 00:58:56,300
How much does as
private implies

1437
00:58:56,300 --> 00:58:58,985
you've got the number 52%.

1438
00:58:58,985 --> 00:59:00,349
I didn't only
applies to no,

1439
00:59:00,349 --> 00:59:02,990
no, no, much
less than that.

1440
00:59:02,990 --> 00:59:06,020
Why did we come up
out of the 800?

1441
00:59:06,020 --> 00:59:06,934
How much is forest?

1442
00:59:06,934 --> 00:59:09,215
How much is okay.

1443
00:59:09,215 --> 00:59:13,924
Oh, the 800 or
400.50250 thousand CFU.

1444
00:59:13,924 --> 00:59:17,900
So remember we have 2,597,

1445
00:59:17,900 --> 00:59:19,129
that is aggregate
resources.

1446
00:59:19,129 --> 00:59:21,274
So everything else is
under the forest zone.

1447
00:59:21,274 --> 00:59:22,639
For school.

1448
00:59:22,639 --> 00:59:25,580
About 500,000,
little over 500,000

1449
00:59:25,580 --> 00:59:30,680
is 04, is private owned.

1450
00:59:30,680 --> 00:59:33,420
Gold for private
own goal four.

1451
00:59:40,330 --> 00:59:44,960
Order isn't 50 is the

1452
00:59:44,960 --> 00:59:51,919
total EMF few here,

1453
00:59:51,919 --> 00:59:52,535
but he's, you know,

1454
00:59:52,535 --> 00:59:53,540
you know, what
I'd suggest is,

1455
00:59:53,540 --> 00:59:55,519
since it isn't it
isn't critical

1456
00:59:55,519 --> 00:59:56,749
to know exactly
those numbers

1457
00:59:56,749 --> 00:59:57,664
for your action today.

1458
00:59:57,664 --> 00:59:58,790
It'd be a gym

1459
00:59:58,790 --> 01:00:00,229
could easily work
with Laurel and get

1460
01:00:00,229 --> 01:00:01,610
you a one-page
sheets so that

1461
01:00:01,610 --> 01:00:03,109
you have that I think
it'd be used to Mr.

1462
01:00:03,109 --> 01:00:05,854
Chairman, can we can we
get Jim backup here?

1463
01:00:05,854 --> 01:00:10,399
It's like a gym and
we can make sure this

1464
01:00:10,399 --> 01:00:14,059
is what they've asked

1465
01:00:14,059 --> 01:00:16,185
for, an amendment
in addition.

1466
01:00:16,185 --> 01:00:20,230
But as you're feeling
about their well,

1467
01:00:20,230 --> 01:00:21,879
first of all, during

1468
01:00:21,879 --> 01:00:23,920
the course of the
ensuing conversation,

1469
01:00:23,920 --> 01:00:26,830
Laurel and I have
actually come up with,

1470
01:00:26,830 --> 01:00:28,419
I think one that responds

1471
01:00:28,419 --> 01:00:30,444
to Hector's interests,

1472
01:00:30,444 --> 01:00:32,290
that may be
different than what

1473
01:00:32,290 --> 01:00:34,419
they suggested that
I'll throw out first.

1474
01:00:34,419 --> 01:00:36,880
And that is if you look
at your schedule and

1475
01:00:36,880 --> 01:00:39,535
the second page and
the memo from Susan,

1476
01:00:39,535 --> 01:00:42,749
item four shows that
by November 30,

1477
01:00:42,749 --> 01:00:44,620
92, they would deal

1478
01:00:44,620 --> 01:00:47,470
with the non resource
land question.

1479
01:00:47,470 --> 01:00:50,440
Item three above that
has a mixture of

1480
01:00:50,440 --> 01:00:53,065
goal for and goal
three items in it.

1481
01:00:53,065 --> 01:00:55,660
An alternative here
would be to establish

1482
01:00:55,660 --> 01:00:58,549
a new June 30th date and

1483
01:00:58,549 --> 01:01:00,860
move that non
resource activity

1484
01:01:00,860 --> 01:01:02,569
up to the June 30th,

1485
01:01:02,569 --> 01:01:05,734
and move the e a
few items from

1486
01:01:05,734 --> 01:01:07,504
figures from item three

1487
01:01:07,504 --> 01:01:09,499
down to that
June 30th days.

1488
01:01:09,499 --> 01:01:12,199
So the February date

1489
01:01:12,199 --> 01:01:13,130
would be the time to deal

1490
01:01:13,130 --> 01:01:17,074
with goal for on the
woodland resource,

1491
01:01:17,074 --> 01:01:20,569
one-sixth prime
forest land.

1492
01:01:20,569 --> 01:01:22,129
And then the June
date would be

1493
01:01:22,129 --> 01:01:23,675
the time to deal
with all the e If

1494
01:01:23,675 --> 01:01:27,455
you including the non
resource question.

1495
01:01:27,455 --> 01:01:31,309
So we're gaining
about five months

1496
01:01:31,309 --> 01:01:33,500
on that nor non
resource issue,

1497
01:01:33,500 --> 01:01:36,109
but the differing from

1498
01:01:36,109 --> 01:01:39,749
February to June on
the E a few states.

1499
01:01:43,230 --> 01:01:45,279
Finally, your

1500
01:01:45,279 --> 01:01:49,999
central facts and
county request.

1501
01:01:52,560 --> 01:01:55,465
A lemonade June
clarity and replace

1502
01:01:55,465 --> 01:01:58,465
or eliminate for
30 mega June 3rd.

1503
01:01:58,465 --> 01:01:59,619
New one.

1504
01:01:59,619 --> 01:02:00,714
We're adding a
three-and-a-half.

1505
01:02:00,714 --> 01:02:03,710
We're adding three
three-and-a-half right.

1506
01:02:03,810 --> 01:02:06,879
From the Jackson County

1507
01:02:06,879 --> 01:02:09,549
is earlier comment today,

1508
01:02:09,549 --> 01:02:12,310
which was two in
number three,

1509
01:02:12,310 --> 01:02:14,740
make it make those
standards applied to

1510
01:02:14,740 --> 01:02:18,009
the irrigated E F
due in February?

1511
01:02:18,009 --> 01:02:20,605
My suggestion
now would be to

1512
01:02:20,605 --> 01:02:22,914
defer that to
the June time,

1513
01:02:22,914 --> 01:02:24,590
but There's a combination

1514
01:02:24,590 --> 01:02:25,640
I suppose you can
have in there

1515
01:02:25,640 --> 01:02:29,344
as the LLI That
non-irrigated E FU

1516
01:02:29,344 --> 01:02:32,495
irrigated ESU at February

1517
01:02:32,495 --> 01:02:34,820
and add the June thing
that we're talking

1518
01:02:34,820 --> 01:02:38,959
about or from November
30 to June 30

1519
01:02:38,959 --> 01:02:42,094
and then pull
up the ESU 3-4.

1520
01:02:42,094 --> 01:02:44,719
Floral. Mr. Chairman,

1521
01:02:44,719 --> 01:02:46,804
let her get up
there with Jim.

1522
01:02:46,804 --> 01:02:48,679
Well, I just wanted to

1523
01:02:48,679 --> 01:02:50,790
having some hesitation.

1524
01:02:52,420 --> 01:02:54,830
Yeah, this was this was

1525
01:02:54,830 --> 01:02:57,035
a suggestion that
Jim and I worked on

1526
01:02:57,035 --> 01:02:59,449
the issue of dealing

1527
01:02:59,449 --> 01:03:02,670
with ESU and non
resource separately.

1528
01:03:03,460 --> 01:03:06,019
What it entails from

1529
01:03:06,019 --> 01:03:08,360
a county planning
perspective is we're going

1530
01:03:08,360 --> 01:03:10,040
back to the issue of

1531
01:03:10,040 --> 01:03:11,480
taking individual items

1532
01:03:11,480 --> 01:03:12,650
out to the public saying,

1533
01:03:12,650 --> 01:03:13,729
Hey, I've got a
new car here,

1534
01:03:13,729 --> 01:03:15,019
I want to sell
you this week

1535
01:03:15,019 --> 01:03:16,669
and then go back
six months,

1536
01:03:16,669 --> 01:03:17,960
three months later
and say, hey,

1537
01:03:17,960 --> 01:03:19,039
I got another
new car, I want

1538
01:03:19,039 --> 01:03:21,299
you to buy this
one instead.

1539
01:03:24,100 --> 01:03:26,225
I don t think it does

1540
01:03:26,225 --> 01:03:27,770
the commission,
the Department,

1541
01:03:27,770 --> 01:03:28,939
or the county, a lot of

1542
01:03:28,939 --> 01:03:30,709
good to do it
in that manner.

1543
01:03:30,709 --> 01:03:33,139
I would still prefer

1544
01:03:33,139 --> 01:03:34,820
my preferences
with Jim and

1545
01:03:34,820 --> 01:03:36,680
I were talking about
before the meeting,

1546
01:03:36,680 --> 01:03:42,169
which is the 200 or
so thousand acres

1547
01:03:42,169 --> 01:03:44,599
and that number is
not in concrete.

1548
01:03:44,599 --> 01:03:46,040
I think Jim and I
are going to be

1549
01:03:46,040 --> 01:03:48,860
meeting next Friday
and we can sit

1550
01:03:48,860 --> 01:03:50,359
down with maps and discuss

1551
01:03:50,359 --> 01:03:52,070
exactly what we're
talking about

1552
01:03:52,070 --> 01:03:53,959
because I need to pull
out the maps that show

1553
01:03:53,959 --> 01:03:55,820
the irrigated area and

1554
01:03:55,820 --> 01:03:58,939
the area that's in
prime agricultural use.

1555
01:03:58,939 --> 01:04:01,160
And then we'll
have something

1556
01:04:01,160 --> 01:04:02,720
concrete to talk about to

1557
01:04:02,720 --> 01:04:05,569
apply the more restrictive

1558
01:04:05,569 --> 01:04:07,595
be a few standards to.

1559
01:04:07,595 --> 01:04:10,699
I would still like
to do that in

1560
01:04:10,699 --> 01:04:12,410
the forest resource at

1561
01:04:12,410 --> 01:04:15,079
the same time in February,

1562
01:04:15,079 --> 01:04:18,080
develop the bag of
tricks, so to speak,

1563
01:04:18,080 --> 01:04:20,809
to work with the
communities and valleys in

1564
01:04:20,809 --> 01:04:23,839
the county as a
whole program

1565
01:04:23,839 --> 01:04:25,789
to solve all their needs

1566
01:04:25,789 --> 01:04:27,304
instead of coming to them

1567
01:04:27,304 --> 01:04:33,079
independently with
new cars to set fire,

1568
01:04:33,079 --> 01:04:36,125
to keep the dates
as we have them.

1569
01:04:36,125 --> 01:04:38,660
But an irrigated lands

1570
01:04:38,660 --> 01:04:40,655
in the ESU and
number three,

1571
01:04:40,655 --> 01:04:43,355
and defer everything else

1572
01:04:43,355 --> 01:04:48,964
to the November day,
another 669 months.

1573
01:04:48,964 --> 01:04:51,020
With the
understanding that

1574
01:04:51,020 --> 01:04:52,069
it's public hearings and

1575
01:04:52,069 --> 01:04:53,599
the adoption will on

1576
01:04:53,599 --> 01:04:55,399
some areas curve much
sooner than that.

1577
01:04:55,399 --> 01:04:58,100
But by November
30th of 92,

1578
01:04:58,100 --> 01:05:00,980
we anticipate having
the entire county.

1579
01:05:00,980 --> 01:05:03,889
Taking care of
question Mr.

1580
01:05:03,889 --> 01:05:05,900
Chair, inherent and then

1581
01:05:05,900 --> 01:05:07,400
November 30th
date then are we

1582
01:05:07,400 --> 01:05:10,110
saying we would no
longer do that?

1583
01:05:11,860 --> 01:05:14,749
Well, I'm going 123, a

1584
01:05:14,749 --> 01:05:25,115
remainder of 30 1992,

1585
01:05:25,115 --> 01:05:27,469
November 30s car salesman,

1586
01:05:27,469 --> 01:05:28,999
Jim says, I'm
supposed to say yes.

1587
01:05:28,999 --> 01:05:31,130
My answer is, by
November 30th,

1588
01:05:31,130 --> 01:05:32,330
1992 will be in

1589
01:05:32,330 --> 01:05:34,340
full compliance
with the state law.

1590
01:05:34,340 --> 01:05:35,990
And the goal reuse, which

1591
01:05:35,990 --> 01:05:38,430
is the same thing
as saying yes.

1592
01:05:38,470 --> 01:05:42,365
But well, both
answers were yes.

1593
01:05:42,365 --> 01:05:43,880
Yes. By November 30th and

1594
01:05:43,880 --> 01:05:45,620
92 will be in
full compliance,

1595
01:05:45,620 --> 01:05:47,359
both with the goal for

1596
01:05:47,359 --> 01:05:49,670
rules on all land
under the goal for

1597
01:05:49,670 --> 01:05:51,649
real requirement
and the goal

1598
01:05:51,649 --> 01:05:52,910
three rules for
all n that's

1599
01:05:52,910 --> 01:05:54,290
centered the goal
three requirement.

1600
01:05:54,290 --> 01:05:56,719
And then we will
have other lands

1601
01:05:56,719 --> 01:05:59,150
segregated off
which don't fall

1602
01:05:59,150 --> 01:06:01,790
under either those
reporting categories

1603
01:06:01,790 --> 01:06:03,170
or those criteria

1604
01:06:03,170 --> 01:06:04,430
that will be dealt with

1605
01:06:04,430 --> 01:06:08,370
as good planning dictates.

1606
01:06:18,960 --> 01:06:21,745
What do you mean by that?

1607
01:06:21,745 --> 01:06:24,369
Because if we're saying

1608
01:06:24,369 --> 01:06:26,199
that this is prime
agricultural land,

1609
01:06:26,199 --> 01:06:27,550
we're not going to
be in a position

1610
01:06:27,550 --> 01:06:29,874
of approving a
non-farm on it.

1611
01:06:29,874 --> 01:06:31,959
If it's primary
and all you're

1612
01:06:31,959 --> 01:06:33,220
gonna get as a
farm dwelling and

1613
01:06:33,220 --> 01:06:35,229
there is no
nonconformity between

1614
01:06:35,229 --> 01:06:39,114
the assessment and the
land use decisions.

1615
01:06:39,114 --> 01:06:41,470
It's the only other land.
What if what if you

1616
01:06:41,470 --> 01:06:49,599
have just pull out

1617
01:06:49,599 --> 01:06:52,850
who I assume it would
be converted to?

1618
01:06:57,840 --> 01:07:00,729
On a non resource zone,

1619
01:07:00,729 --> 01:07:02,680
you would not build
a non-farm dwelling.

1620
01:07:02,680 --> 01:07:04,150
On a non resource zone,

1621
01:07:04,150 --> 01:07:05,875
you would build
a residence.

1622
01:07:05,875 --> 01:07:09,159
And then it's not
a question of

1623
01:07:09,159 --> 01:07:11,560
the planning
department and making

1624
01:07:11,560 --> 01:07:12,700
any statement on what

1625
01:07:12,700 --> 01:07:14,515
the assessment
will or won't be.

1626
01:07:14,515 --> 01:07:16,090
It will be the
assessors office

1627
01:07:16,090 --> 01:07:17,320
following the rules of

1628
01:07:17,320 --> 01:07:19,360
the Department of
Revenue regarding

1629
01:07:19,360 --> 01:07:21,805
how you assess rural land.

1630
01:07:21,805 --> 01:07:24,715
But in this case it's
not an exception area.

1631
01:07:24,715 --> 01:07:27,355
It's not high density.

1632
01:07:27,355 --> 01:07:31,224
One to five acres AT
is a 20 acre parcel.

1633
01:07:31,224 --> 01:07:34,405
That is just not a
resource designation,

1634
01:07:34,405 --> 01:07:42,544
which in every case well,
no, I see they can.

1635
01:07:42,544 --> 01:07:44,420
The thing the hook here

1636
01:07:44,420 --> 01:07:46,399
is like going to
non resource.

1637
01:07:46,399 --> 01:07:48,019
They just have
to qualify under

1638
01:07:48,019 --> 01:07:49,550
500 dollar income
thing and they

1639
01:07:49,550 --> 01:07:51,920
can keep the income test.

1640
01:07:51,920 --> 01:07:54,769
It's a 500 dollar
annual income.

1641
01:07:54,769 --> 01:07:58,079
Then they can keep
their firearm deferral.

1642
01:07:58,360 --> 01:08:01,859
Even though they're
non resource land.

1643
01:08:03,310 --> 01:08:06,710
Not a non-farm
dwelling anymore,

1644
01:08:06,710 --> 01:08:08,120
it's a resonance because

1645
01:08:08,120 --> 01:08:10,055
the whole thing is
not in recent years.

1646
01:08:10,055 --> 01:08:13,339
It's not defined as
agricultural land.

1647
01:08:13,339 --> 01:08:14,869
It is rural
land, just like

1648
01:08:14,869 --> 01:08:17,479
those lands within the
exception areas where

1649
01:08:17,479 --> 01:08:20,449
people receiving
farm tax deferral

1650
01:08:20,449 --> 01:08:21,739
because of the activities

1651
01:08:21,739 --> 01:08:22,939
that are occurring
on the land.

1652
01:08:22,939 --> 01:08:24,260
It's still an
exception area

1653
01:08:24,260 --> 01:08:25,699
from a zoning standpoint,

1654
01:08:25,699 --> 01:08:27,349
committed to
residential areas.

1655
01:08:27,349 --> 01:08:30,214
Mr. Chairman,
great question.

1656
01:08:30,214 --> 01:08:33,334
Do they or do they not
pay their back taxes?

1657
01:08:33,334 --> 01:08:36,530
If the zoning is changed?

1658
01:08:36,530 --> 01:08:38,419
Do they pay back
taxes? You're not.

1659
01:08:38,419 --> 01:08:40,144
I think that if the county

1660
01:08:40,144 --> 01:08:41,974
reasons the property,

1661
01:08:41,974 --> 01:08:44,915
the property owners do
not face the penalty,

1662
01:08:44,915 --> 01:08:47,539
the 10-year back taxes
if we rezone it,

1663
01:08:47,539 --> 01:08:50,690
if they initiate

1664
01:08:50,690 --> 01:08:52,399
the rezoning
than they do pay

1665
01:08:52,399 --> 01:08:54,919
the tenure back tax is
the same as they paid

1666
01:08:54,919 --> 01:08:56,389
when they placed

1667
01:08:56,389 --> 01:08:58,529
the non-pharm
dwelling on it.

1668
01:09:04,600 --> 01:09:08,159
We didn't have to
pay the back taxes.

1669
01:09:09,850 --> 01:09:12,769
The county does
not receive

1670
01:09:12,769 --> 01:09:14,210
a very substantial
amount of

1671
01:09:14,210 --> 01:09:16,564
money in taxes,
property taxes.

1672
01:09:16,564 --> 01:09:17,090
Mr.

1673
01:09:17,090 --> 01:09:21,244
Chairman, the
problem yeah.

1674
01:09:21,244 --> 01:09:21,575
Yeah.

1675
01:09:21,575 --> 01:09:24,320
That's where I'm trying
to head for her or

1676
01:09:24,320 --> 01:09:29,069
we staff feel comfortable.

1677
01:09:32,500 --> 01:09:34,084
Alright.

1678
01:09:34,084 --> 01:09:36,005
I would like to move that

1679
01:09:36,005 --> 01:09:43,984
we like to move
that we adopt

1680
01:09:43,984 --> 01:09:49,595
staff recommendations
with Jackson County is

1681
01:09:49,595 --> 01:09:52,939
associated within
the last 2 h.

1682
01:09:52,939 --> 01:09:56,390
I don't know how
else I can do that.

1683
01:09:56,390 --> 01:09:57,629
They're

1684
01:10:07,120 --> 01:10:08,300
just

1685
01:10:08,300 --> 01:10:12,540
say that will apply to.

1686
01:10:14,320 --> 01:10:16,969
And other areas has agreed

1687
01:10:16,969 --> 01:10:20,879
to. Next two weeks.

1688
01:10:23,830 --> 01:10:26,540
We'll cover the
remainder of

1689
01:10:26,540 --> 01:10:31,289
land. That's my motion.

1690
01:10:34,510 --> 01:10:35,854
Now.

1691
01:10:35,854 --> 01:10:37,790
Is that agreeable
with county?

1692
01:10:37,790 --> 01:10:40,415
We are we in
agreement here?

1693
01:10:40,415 --> 01:10:41,809
Absolutely.

1694
01:10:41,809 --> 01:10:43,159
From staff, but
I'll let you

1695
01:10:43,159 --> 01:10:46,459
speak the boss. Yeah.

1696
01:10:46,459 --> 01:10:49,700
This really we feel
that we can meet

1697
01:10:49,700 --> 01:10:51,409
these timelines
and we feel that

1698
01:10:51,409 --> 01:10:53,239
this is going to be
a workable plan.

1699
01:10:53,239 --> 01:10:55,260
Thank you very much.

1700
01:11:01,660 --> 01:11:05,670
Now. Good.

1701
01:11:06,640 --> 01:11:10,850
Restart. I apologize
to those of you in

1702
01:11:10,850 --> 01:11:11,869
the audience who had

1703
01:11:11,869 --> 01:11:15,154
to sit with us through
the Jackson County.

1704
01:11:15,154 --> 01:11:17,210
It was we needed
the education

1705
01:11:17,210 --> 01:11:18,710
and it was very
helpful for us

1706
01:11:18,710 --> 01:11:20,990
and we had not

1707
01:11:20,990 --> 01:11:23,029
originally intended to
take that much time.

1708
01:11:23,029 --> 01:11:25,189
But sometimes we need

1709
01:11:25,189 --> 01:11:28,999
to debate these longer

1710
01:11:28,999 --> 01:11:31,144
than it would seem
normally necessary.

1711
01:11:31,144 --> 01:11:33,739
Let's move on with
this same agenda item

1712
01:11:33,739 --> 01:11:35,915
and complete it.

1713
01:11:35,915 --> 01:11:41,474
And Jim, are you ready?

1714
01:11:41,474 --> 01:11:44,579
Go. What do you think?

1715
01:11:45,490 --> 01:11:52,340
We need to separate
out? Okay.

1716
01:11:52,340 --> 01:11:57,244
We've done Jackson County.

1717
01:11:57,244 --> 01:11:59,659
Why don't we take up on

1718
01:11:59,659 --> 01:12:01,460
page one of our
memo on this,

1719
01:12:01,460 --> 01:12:06,095
the attention
of continuing

1720
01:12:06,095 --> 01:12:07,399
the continuance deadlines

1721
01:12:07,399 --> 01:12:09,499
for linen, Washoe County.

1722
01:12:09,499 --> 01:12:11,540
We pick that up
as a separate.

1723
01:12:11,540 --> 01:12:13,709
We have a motion on that.

1724
01:12:18,160 --> 01:12:20,914
I would second Okay.

1725
01:12:20,914 --> 01:12:22,129
Discussion.

1726
01:12:22,129 --> 01:12:23,540
Those in favor Aye.

1727
01:12:23,540 --> 01:12:25,204
Aye. Opposed. No.

1728
01:12:25,204 --> 01:12:27,649
Okay. Let's take
up the issue

1729
01:12:27,649 --> 01:12:29,959
then on shoots County.

1730
01:12:29,959 --> 01:12:31,370
First of all, let me just

1731
01:12:31,370 --> 01:12:33,334
qualify myself as
having a conflict.

1732
01:12:33,334 --> 01:12:34,159
Okay.

1733
01:12:34,159 --> 01:12:35,750
Is there a motion
on the shoots

1734
01:12:35,750 --> 01:12:39,410
county acknowledgment
continuation there.

1735
01:12:39,410 --> 01:12:42,739
So moved. Second.

1736
01:12:42,739 --> 01:12:45,440
Now, under
discussion, May I

1737
01:12:45,440 --> 01:12:48,140
ask if Commissioner
troupe has any comments?

1738
01:12:48,140 --> 01:12:52,369
Can he can he make
any comments on

1739
01:12:52,369 --> 01:12:55,369
this particular
ride on her

1740
01:12:55,369 --> 01:12:56,599
in total agreement

1741
01:12:56,599 --> 01:12:58,820
with putting on
the county hat,

1742
01:12:58,820 --> 01:12:59,870
we're in total
agreement with the

1743
01:12:59,870 --> 01:13:02,660
staff laid out here in

1744
01:13:02,660 --> 01:13:04,789
their recommendations
were in total accord

1745
01:13:04,789 --> 01:13:07,790
with wasn't even hardly
any negotiation.

1746
01:13:07,790 --> 01:13:09,845
That was just an
immediate okay.

1747
01:13:09,845 --> 01:13:12,364
Covert question,
discussion.

1748
01:13:12,364 --> 01:13:13,660
All those in favor Aye.

1749
01:13:13,660 --> 01:13:15,739
Aye. Was no. Okay.

1750
01:13:15,739 --> 01:13:21,529
Now, we're to
blame county.

1751
01:13:21,529 --> 01:13:31,159
5.1. Mr. Chair, members

1752
01:13:31,159 --> 01:13:33,589
of the commission in 1984,

1753
01:13:33,589 --> 01:13:35,044
this Commission
acknowledged

1754
01:13:35,044 --> 01:13:36,619
Lane County and that

1755
01:13:36,619 --> 01:13:38,119
acknowledgment
included six about

1756
01:13:38,119 --> 01:13:40,954
69,000 acres of
exception areas.

1757
01:13:40,954 --> 01:13:45,125
That acknowledgement
was appealed in 1988,

1758
01:13:45,125 --> 01:13:46,280
the Supreme Court remanded

1759
01:13:46,280 --> 01:13:48,409
a large portion of
the acknowledged plan

1760
01:13:48,409 --> 01:13:50,825
and including all 69,000

1761
01:13:50,825 --> 01:13:52,550
of those exception areas.

1762
01:13:52,550 --> 01:13:54,799
Also where demanded were

1763
01:13:54,799 --> 01:13:56,060
major elements
of the counties

1764
01:13:56,060 --> 01:13:57,664
farm and forest zones.

1765
01:13:57,664 --> 01:13:59,180
It's been a long road

1766
01:13:59,180 --> 01:14:01,669
back with

1767
01:14:01,669 --> 01:14:03,799
some interesting
detours along the way,

1768
01:14:03,799 --> 01:14:05,839
including a new
goal for rule in

1769
01:14:05,839 --> 01:14:08,780
response to that
Supreme Court ruling.

1770
01:14:08,780 --> 01:14:11,990
We have seen or
you have seen all

1771
01:14:11,990 --> 01:14:15,965
69,000 acres of the
exception areas.

1772
01:14:15,965 --> 01:14:19,549
And you have sent back
some of those and

1773
01:14:19,549 --> 01:14:20,674
acknowledge some of those

1774
01:14:20,674 --> 01:14:23,615
in several
individual actions.

1775
01:14:23,615 --> 01:14:26,689
The acknowledgment is
now complete for all

1776
01:14:26,689 --> 01:14:29,615
of the county except for

1777
01:14:29,615 --> 01:14:31,579
the because I
understand it

1778
01:14:31,579 --> 01:14:35,270
It's approximately
2,900 acres

1779
01:14:35,270 --> 01:14:37,370
that are before you today

1780
01:14:37,370 --> 01:14:41,765
that those properties
were sent back for

1781
01:14:41,765 --> 01:14:43,610
either rezoning to

1782
01:14:43,610 --> 01:14:45,320
resource use or
for the county

1783
01:14:45,320 --> 01:14:48,530
to better justify
their recommendation

1784
01:14:48,530 --> 01:14:50,285
that they are
exception areas.

1785
01:14:50,285 --> 01:14:53,705
And the county
has submitted

1786
01:14:53,705 --> 01:14:56,060
1,700 acres that have been

1787
01:14:56,060 --> 01:14:59,060
rezoned for farming
for us to use.

1788
01:14:59,060 --> 01:15:00,860
The remaining area in

1789
01:15:00,860 --> 01:15:03,424
a county can correct me
when they're up here.

1790
01:15:03,424 --> 01:15:04,249
If these are I think

1791
01:15:04,249 --> 01:15:05,600
these are
approximately about

1792
01:15:05,600 --> 01:15:09,109
I calculate 1198 acres.

1793
01:15:09,109 --> 01:15:11,509
That includes
additional information

1794
01:15:11,509 --> 01:15:13,579
to demonstrate
commitment to

1795
01:15:13,579 --> 01:15:15,859
uses that preclude
farm use.

1796
01:15:15,859 --> 01:15:17,630
Department has reviewed.

1797
01:15:17,630 --> 01:15:20,285
These, were recommending
acknowledgment

1798
01:15:20,285 --> 01:15:23,119
for all the areas that
had been rezoned,

1799
01:15:23,119 --> 01:15:25,250
for all the
exception areas,

1800
01:15:25,250 --> 01:15:28,504
except for approximately
129 acres.

1801
01:15:28,504 --> 01:15:30,230
Those are areas for

1802
01:15:30,230 --> 01:15:31,865
which we have
an objection.

1803
01:15:31,865 --> 01:15:35,855
And upon careful evaluation
in light of that.

1804
01:15:35,855 --> 01:15:39,949
Staff believes that the
county does not have

1805
01:15:39,949 --> 01:15:41,584
a sustainable
case that these

1806
01:15:41,584 --> 01:15:44,315
are or should be
zoned as exceptions.

1807
01:15:44,315 --> 01:15:47,044
We are recommending that

1808
01:15:47,044 --> 01:15:50,764
the county rezone these
also to resource use,

1809
01:15:50,764 --> 01:15:52,880
and we recommend that

1810
01:15:52,880 --> 01:15:54,289
the commission issue

1811
01:15:54,289 --> 01:15:56,795
a separate order
that would be

1812
01:15:56,795 --> 01:15:59,929
it would authorize
the director to sign

1813
01:15:59,929 --> 01:16:01,850
the Acknowledgement
Order upon

1814
01:16:01,850 --> 01:16:03,934
the rezoning of these
hundred and 29 acres.

1815
01:16:03,934 --> 01:16:06,244
And if that recommendation
is accepted,

1816
01:16:06,244 --> 01:16:07,999
all of Lean County will be

1817
01:16:07,999 --> 01:16:09,110
acknowledged

1818
01:16:09,110 --> 01:16:10,880
except those hundred
and 29 acres,

1819
01:16:10,880 --> 01:16:11,479
and they would be

1820
01:16:11,479 --> 01:16:12,919
acknowledged at
a later date,

1821
01:16:12,919 --> 01:16:14,810
but would not have
to come before you.

1822
01:16:14,810 --> 01:16:16,234
So essentially
this will be

1823
01:16:16,234 --> 01:16:17,929
your final look at

1824
01:16:17,929 --> 01:16:20,164
the acknowledgment
of Lean County?

1825
01:16:20,164 --> 01:16:22,175
I don't have any.

1826
01:16:22,175 --> 01:16:23,840
That's just an overview

1827
01:16:23,840 --> 01:16:25,160
we're going to hear today.

1828
01:16:25,160 --> 01:16:28,549
I think that the
objector is not here.

1829
01:16:28,549 --> 01:16:30,919
I don't see a
member of 1,000

1830
01:16:30,919 --> 01:16:33,679
friends property owners or

1831
01:16:33,679 --> 01:16:36,229
the 129 acres will
be testifying.

1832
01:16:36,229 --> 01:16:39,245
I'll turn it over
to Doug to give you

1833
01:16:39,245 --> 01:16:40,760
a quick description of

1834
01:16:40,760 --> 01:16:42,650
the three exceptions areas

1835
01:16:42,650 --> 01:16:44,764
that I think will
be the issue.

1836
01:16:44,764 --> 01:16:46,580
Before you go just

1837
01:16:46,580 --> 01:16:47,915
to understand what
we need to do,

1838
01:16:47,915 --> 01:16:49,969
would there be with
the proper procedure

1839
01:16:49,969 --> 01:16:52,115
for us b3 motions,

1840
01:16:52,115 --> 01:16:56,629
one to acknowledge
as exceptions,

1841
01:16:56,629 --> 01:17:00,165
areas the excess
amount of land.

1842
01:17:00,165 --> 01:17:03,129
Second Motion
to acknowledge

1843
01:17:03,129 --> 01:17:05,619
the rezoning or dirt
or even need to

1844
01:17:05,619 --> 01:17:06,699
do anything about
the reasons

1845
01:17:06,699 --> 01:17:07,150
why I think that

1846
01:17:07,150 --> 01:17:09,565
the 11 acknowledgement
one motion

1847
01:17:09,565 --> 01:17:11,859
acknowledged the
rezoning areas and

1848
01:17:11,859 --> 01:17:12,880
the exception
areas that we

1849
01:17:12,880 --> 01:17:14,349
believe are justified.

1850
01:17:14,349 --> 01:17:16,810
And then a second
motion then on

1851
01:17:16,810 --> 01:17:19,329
the 126 or 2029,
whatever it is,

1852
01:17:19,329 --> 01:17:21,399
acres authorizing
the director

1853
01:17:21,399 --> 01:17:25,675
to handle that once
they're rezoned, correct?

1854
01:17:25,675 --> 01:17:28,360
If that's our decision.
Yes. That's correct.

1855
01:17:28,360 --> 01:17:30,685
As two orders. Alright.

1856
01:17:30,685 --> 01:17:32,944
Mr. Chairman, members
of the commission.

1857
01:17:32,944 --> 01:17:33,760
I'm Doug wipe.

1858
01:17:33,760 --> 01:17:34,960
The department staff would

1859
01:17:34,960 --> 01:17:36,219
like to briefly
do two things.

1860
01:17:36,219 --> 01:17:37,989
I'd like to go
through your packet

1861
01:17:37,989 --> 01:17:39,460
and what information
you have,

1862
01:17:39,460 --> 01:17:40,810
and I'd like to
just briefly hit

1863
01:17:40,810 --> 01:17:42,489
on what the issues
are regarding

1864
01:17:42,489 --> 01:17:45,949
the property to 126
acres of concern.

1865
01:17:45,949 --> 01:17:47,480
First of all,
in your packet,

1866
01:17:47,480 --> 01:17:49,309
you'll have a cover letter

1867
01:17:49,309 --> 01:17:52,984
identifying the issues
of staff report.

1868
01:17:52,984 --> 01:17:56,075
Attached to the
staff report is

1869
01:17:56,075 --> 01:17:57,349
an attachment on the legal

1870
01:17:57,349 --> 01:17:58,999
standard for an exception.

1871
01:17:58,999 --> 01:18:01,355
Also attached report is

1872
01:18:01,355 --> 01:18:03,020
a list of the
plot maps that

1873
01:18:03,020 --> 01:18:04,760
we're recommending
be acknowledged.

1874
01:18:04,760 --> 01:18:06,260
And it lists the tax law.

1875
01:18:06,260 --> 01:18:07,729
So we're recommending
the rezoned

1876
01:18:07,729 --> 01:18:09,155
to farm and forests use.

1877
01:18:09,155 --> 01:18:10,850
The objection
letters submitted

1878
01:18:10,850 --> 01:18:12,589
from 1,000 friends
of Oregon and

1879
01:18:12,589 --> 01:18:15,079
the comments regarding
the three areas

1880
01:18:15,079 --> 01:18:16,985
of issue is attached.

1881
01:18:16,985 --> 01:18:20,584
I've also, at the
request of the county,

1882
01:18:20,584 --> 01:18:22,939
based on their
March 15th letter,

1883
01:18:22,939 --> 01:18:25,189
included a complete copy

1884
01:18:25,189 --> 01:18:26,869
of the county findings

1885
01:18:26,869 --> 01:18:27,290
regarding

1886
01:18:27,290 --> 01:18:28,820
the three exception
areas and that's

1887
01:18:28,820 --> 01:18:30,935
attached to your packet.

1888
01:18:30,935 --> 01:18:33,289
And the last bit
of information are

1889
01:18:33,289 --> 01:18:36,079
the three timely
exception letters that we

1890
01:18:36,079 --> 01:18:40,715
received from
property owners.

1891
01:18:40,715 --> 01:18:43,310
You should have three

1892
01:18:43,310 --> 01:18:45,274
copies of those letters.

1893
01:18:45,274 --> 01:18:49,639
I have for you, I have
aerial photographs of

1894
01:18:49,639 --> 01:18:51,949
126 acres and I'd like to

1895
01:18:51,949 --> 01:18:54,814
just briefly identify
what the issue is.

1896
01:18:54,814 --> 01:18:56,209
The county provided

1897
01:18:56,209 --> 01:18:57,559
information on these areas

1898
01:18:57,559 --> 01:19:00,424
regarding the problems
with the soils,

1899
01:19:00,424 --> 01:19:02,344
the high clay content,

1900
01:19:02,344 --> 01:19:04,460
rocky soils, and some of

1901
01:19:04,460 --> 01:19:06,920
the problems with
water and so on.

1902
01:19:06,920 --> 01:19:08,660
And we recognize that

1903
01:19:08,660 --> 01:19:10,100
these properties are

1904
01:19:10,100 --> 01:19:12,095
how some limitations,
however,

1905
01:19:12,095 --> 01:19:13,340
the property does not

1906
01:19:13,340 --> 01:19:15,019
satisfy the
standard that we

1907
01:19:15,019 --> 01:19:16,279
have to evaluate that

1908
01:19:16,279 --> 01:19:17,930
evaluate these
properties against,

1909
01:19:17,930 --> 01:19:20,539
and that's the
exception requirements.

1910
01:19:20,539 --> 01:19:22,339
The land is not physically

1911
01:19:22,339 --> 01:19:23,930
developed and the
county has not

1912
01:19:23,930 --> 01:19:26,120
provided findings
to show why it's

1913
01:19:26,120 --> 01:19:27,769
impracticable to

1914
01:19:27,769 --> 01:19:31,109
apply gold III to
these properties.

1915
01:19:31,360 --> 01:19:34,729
That's basically yet
they just haven't met

1916
01:19:34,729 --> 01:19:36,799
the standard that
we have to evaluate

1917
01:19:36,799 --> 01:19:37,880
this land against
and that's

1918
01:19:37,880 --> 01:19:40,379
the exception
requirements.

1919
01:19:40,690 --> 01:19:42,859
I will mention that one

1920
01:19:42,859 --> 01:19:43,910
of the exception letters

1921
01:19:43,910 --> 01:19:47,434
had some photographs
included with that.

1922
01:19:47,434 --> 01:19:49,190
I made copies
for your books.

1923
01:19:49,190 --> 01:19:50,750
I have the originals here.

1924
01:19:50,750 --> 01:19:52,055
If you'd like
to see those,

1925
01:19:52,055 --> 01:19:53,989
you get a little bit
of clear picture

1926
01:19:53,989 --> 01:19:56,359
of the other profit.

1927
01:19:56,359 --> 01:19:57,875
This is from the

1928
01:19:57,875 --> 01:19:59,734
odor guards in
reorder point,

1929
01:19:59,734 --> 01:20:05,780
which is 25022?

1930
01:20:05,780 --> 01:20:11,420
Yes. Photographs.
I've also got

1931
01:20:11,420 --> 01:20:13,805
three aerial photographs
and I've labeled

1932
01:20:13,805 --> 01:20:16,430
the properties
the location

1933
01:20:16,430 --> 01:20:18,649
of the property
in question,

1934
01:20:18,649 --> 01:20:20,224
some of the
surrounding zoning

1935
01:20:20,224 --> 01:20:21,440
and in black, like I said,

1936
01:20:21,440 --> 01:20:22,849
I have the owner

1937
01:20:22,849 --> 01:20:24,170
listed here and you
can go ahead and

1938
01:20:24,170 --> 01:20:27,199
take a look at
the properties

1939
01:20:27,199 --> 01:20:28,220
on aerial photographs.

1940
01:20:28,220 --> 01:20:32,399
These were flown in 1986.

1941
01:20:47,290 --> 01:20:49,370
You don't have any
more questions.

1942
01:20:49,370 --> 01:20:50,570
I'll just turn it over

1943
01:20:50,570 --> 01:20:52,294
to the county who has has

1944
01:20:52,294 --> 01:20:55,290
Short presentation
they'd like to make.

1945
01:20:56,050 --> 01:20:58,640
Air blast or members
of the commission.

1946
01:20:58,640 --> 01:21:00,949
For the record, I
named Roy Burns,

1947
01:21:00,949 --> 01:21:02,884
planning director
for Lane County

1948
01:21:02,884 --> 01:21:04,729
to assist the
Commission in

1949
01:21:04,729 --> 01:21:06,440
addition to the
aerial photographs

1950
01:21:06,440 --> 01:21:09,005
provided by your staff,

1951
01:21:09,005 --> 01:21:11,930
I would like to
give you a copy of

1952
01:21:11,930 --> 01:21:14,660
the computer-generated
map which

1953
01:21:14,660 --> 01:21:16,279
shows the development
pattern in

1954
01:21:16,279 --> 01:21:18,109
the area that is
part of the record.

1955
01:21:18,109 --> 01:21:19,939
So that you can then
match that against

1956
01:21:19,939 --> 01:21:21,289
aerial photograph
to give you

1957
01:21:21,289 --> 01:21:23,180
some understanding.

1958
01:21:23,180 --> 01:21:25,760
In some cases, a
computer-generated map

1959
01:21:25,760 --> 01:21:27,469
shows structures and

1960
01:21:27,469 --> 01:21:29,075
other developments
that are not

1961
01:21:29,075 --> 01:21:33,139
clearly evident from
the aerial photograph.

1962
01:21:33,139 --> 01:21:37,729
Mr. Hoagland is the
associate planner

1963
01:21:37,729 --> 01:21:40,430
on my staff who has spent

1964
01:21:40,430 --> 01:21:44,090
the last two years of
his life generating

1965
01:21:44,090 --> 01:21:45,440
vast reams

1966
01:21:45,440 --> 01:21:49,229
of information
regarding this matter.

1967
01:21:49,360 --> 01:21:52,130
Mr. Haldeman came
from the City

1968
01:21:52,130 --> 01:21:54,154
of Portland as an
urban planner,

1969
01:21:54,154 --> 01:21:57,199
and it seemed
only appropriate

1970
01:21:57,199 --> 01:22:01,024
to assign him this
task for evaluation.

1971
01:22:01,024 --> 01:22:04,550
Rvs standards
were that he was

1972
01:22:04,550 --> 01:22:08,150
to achieve 100%
acknowledgment,

1973
01:22:08,150 --> 01:22:10,159
developed and committed
exception areas.

1974
01:22:10,159 --> 01:22:13,384
He has not made
that standard.

1975
01:22:13,384 --> 01:22:15,275
I'm right now.

1976
01:22:15,275 --> 01:22:18,020
Should you take action

1977
01:22:18,020 --> 01:22:19,924
consistent with
your staff?

1978
01:22:19,924 --> 01:22:24,079
He will only have a
97.5% approval rate.

1979
01:22:24,079 --> 01:22:26,600
And therefore
his evaluation

1980
01:22:26,600 --> 01:22:29,129
will reflect that failure.

1981
01:22:29,200 --> 01:22:31,609
The Snoop know he

1982
01:22:31,609 --> 01:22:34,229
was getting such
a cruel boss.

1983
01:22:34,420 --> 01:22:36,560
I didn't select him.

1984
01:22:36,560 --> 01:22:38,329
He didn't know for
whom he was working

1985
01:22:38,329 --> 01:22:39,560
specifically until

1986
01:22:39,560 --> 01:22:41,375
he was assigned
this project.

1987
01:22:41,375 --> 01:22:42,830
My senior planner hired

1988
01:22:42,830 --> 01:22:45,840
him and I'm not
sure he knew that.

1989
01:22:48,010 --> 01:22:52,399
The the interesting thing
and I would like to

1990
01:22:52,399 --> 01:22:54,199
emphasize this to you at

1991
01:22:54,199 --> 01:22:56,885
this time is full circle.

1992
01:22:56,885 --> 01:22:59,180
We're almost right back to

1993
01:22:59,180 --> 01:23:01,370
where we were in 1984 when

1994
01:23:01,370 --> 01:23:03,230
the land conservation
and development

1995
01:23:03,230 --> 01:23:06,544
commissioning
knowledge, Lane County.

1996
01:23:06,544 --> 01:23:10,505
It's been not a
rewarding exercise.

1997
01:23:10,505 --> 01:23:12,799
I'm very upset
that we have

1998
01:23:12,799 --> 01:23:15,304
wasted a great deal
of time and effort

1999
01:23:15,304 --> 01:23:18,110
in minutiae that
has not proven to

2000
01:23:18,110 --> 01:23:21,899
be a benefit to the
state or the county.

2001
01:23:22,960 --> 01:23:26,599
To end up with a
limited number of

2002
01:23:26,599 --> 01:23:29,689
areas and the limited
number of acres and

2003
01:23:29,689 --> 01:23:31,460
this acknowledgment
process that

2004
01:23:31,460 --> 01:23:32,719
we're not bound to meet

2005
01:23:32,719 --> 01:23:34,129
a very rigid standard is

2006
01:23:34,129 --> 01:23:37,100
very distressing thing
for me personally.

2007
01:23:37,100 --> 01:23:38,600
I think the suit was

2008
01:23:38,600 --> 01:23:41,209
frivolous and I think
it was unnecessary.

2009
01:23:41,209 --> 01:23:42,410
And I think if 1,000

2010
01:23:42,410 --> 01:23:44,389
friends had done their
job to start with,

2011
01:23:44,389 --> 01:23:46,085
as offered by your staff,

2012
01:23:46,085 --> 01:23:47,464
we would not have wasted

2013
01:23:47,464 --> 01:23:48,979
a significant amount
of money that

2014
01:23:48,979 --> 01:23:51,170
we've wasted in
this process.

2015
01:23:51,170 --> 01:23:52,895
I would like
to get back to

2016
01:23:52,895 --> 01:23:55,370
planning and get off

2017
01:23:55,370 --> 01:24:01,070
this legal hobby horse
that were on ROI.

2018
01:24:01,070 --> 01:24:02,779
Excuse me for
interrupting you,

2019
01:24:02,779 --> 01:24:04,340
but along those
same thoughts,

2020
01:24:04,340 --> 01:24:05,704
do you have any idea of

2021
01:24:05,704 --> 01:24:09,874
the economic costs
over the years?

2022
01:24:09,874 --> 01:24:12,289
Yes, I do.

2023
01:24:12,289 --> 01:24:15,319
For this specific
product project,

2024
01:24:15,319 --> 01:24:19,319
we have spent in
excess of $700,000.

2025
01:24:21,660 --> 01:24:25,374
What you have
before you is,

2026
01:24:25,374 --> 01:24:28,464
as with so many
major efforts,

2027
01:24:28,464 --> 01:24:29,979
it's kind of a whimper,

2028
01:24:29,979 --> 01:24:33,220
the final ending
of the process.

2029
01:24:33,220 --> 01:24:34,869
And we would hope
that you had

2030
01:24:34,869 --> 01:24:36,985
seriously considered
the items before you.

2031
01:24:36,985 --> 01:24:40,419
There are citizens here

2032
01:24:40,419 --> 01:24:42,069
who are impacted
by this decision

2033
01:24:42,069 --> 01:24:44,500
who do wish to testify
on both Harvey and

2034
01:24:44,500 --> 01:24:47,110
myself will be available
to answer questions.

2035
01:24:47,110 --> 01:24:49,794
Should you have them
after the public comment

2036
01:24:49,794 --> 01:24:51,614
on this issue?

2037
01:24:51,614 --> 01:24:54,745
You and I 126

2038
01:24:54,745 --> 01:24:57,925
to 129 acres is not
a significant issue.

2039
01:24:57,925 --> 01:24:59,440
These individuals?

2040
01:24:59,440 --> 01:25:01,159
It is.

2041
01:25:05,160 --> 01:25:07,569
All right. Let's
let us here we

2042
01:25:07,569 --> 01:25:09,819
have two green slips.

2043
01:25:09,819 --> 01:25:13,585
First, Susan Hamilton
and make Gibson.

2044
01:25:13,585 --> 01:25:14,890
Did you want to
come up together?

2045
01:25:14,890 --> 01:25:17,779
I know both names are
on the same slip.

2046
01:25:22,920 --> 01:25:27,290
Is there a microphone
that can be moved down?

2047
01:25:27,290 --> 01:25:29,169
That can be moved
back and move down.

2048
01:25:29,169 --> 01:25:29,440
Yeah.

2049
01:25:29,440 --> 01:25:30,129
Okay.

2050
01:25:30,129 --> 01:25:31,639
Wonderful.

2051
01:25:32,610 --> 01:25:34,480
Let me don't hold onto it.

2052
01:25:34,480 --> 01:25:36,500
Does it whip backup?

2053
01:25:42,150 --> 01:25:45,079
We start now.

2054
01:25:45,150 --> 01:25:48,010
Just as a matter
of introduction,

2055
01:25:48,010 --> 01:25:49,450
I have to apologize

2056
01:25:49,450 --> 01:25:50,980
and that the
response to Doug

2057
01:25:50,980 --> 01:25:52,419
whites letter we just

2058
01:25:52,419 --> 01:25:54,250
received at about
three days ago.

2059
01:25:54,250 --> 01:25:55,719
So you don't have written

2060
01:25:55,719 --> 01:25:58,195
materials to
review beforehand,

2061
01:25:58,195 --> 01:26:01,674
although I will provide
that to you now.

2062
01:26:01,674 --> 01:26:03,399
I noticed says the Cloud

2063
01:26:03,399 --> 01:26:05,169
carries heavier
within the state,

2064
01:26:05,169 --> 01:26:06,520
there's more bodies are

2065
01:26:06,520 --> 01:26:08,004
more people on this body.

2066
01:26:08,004 --> 01:26:10,089
I think you only have
enough for seven.

2067
01:26:10,089 --> 01:26:11,800
So Mr. Knudsen,

2068
01:26:11,800 --> 01:26:13,555
do you mind if you
don't get a copy?

2069
01:26:13,555 --> 01:26:14,559
Okay.

2070
01:26:14,559 --> 01:26:15,849
There's no there's

2071
01:26:15,849 --> 01:26:17,020
no problem with
us accepting.

2072
01:26:17,020 --> 01:26:18,999
This is not a contestant
case situation,

2073
01:26:18,999 --> 01:26:20,440
so we're not a problem and

2074
01:26:20,440 --> 01:26:21,730
receiving as far as

2075
01:26:21,730 --> 01:26:24,054
what the record
is and so forth.

2076
01:26:24,054 --> 01:26:28,340
Decision needs to be
based upon the record.

2077
01:26:32,160 --> 01:26:35,209
Episode or objective two.

2078
01:26:35,880 --> 01:26:38,809
Arguments here.

2079
01:26:39,510 --> 01:26:41,589
Activities there.

2080
01:26:41,589 --> 01:26:44,680
I don't know how I

2081
01:26:44,680 --> 01:26:46,165
don't know what
we've got here.

2082
01:26:46,165 --> 01:26:47,769
This is not new evidence.

2083
01:26:47,769 --> 01:26:48,909
It's clarification and

2084
01:26:48,909 --> 01:26:50,200
additional documentation

2085
01:26:50,200 --> 01:26:51,774
to support our case.

2086
01:26:51,774 --> 01:26:53,815
Well, I just want
to make sure that

2087
01:26:53,815 --> 01:26:56,109
the reason I'm asking
is not to be hard,

2088
01:26:56,109 --> 01:26:58,060
but I don't want
us to receive

2089
01:26:58,060 --> 01:27:00,339
something here that gives

2090
01:27:00,339 --> 01:27:01,300
an avenue for somebody to

2091
01:27:01,300 --> 01:27:02,649
appeal on the basis that

2092
01:27:02,649 --> 01:27:04,060
we got new evidence

2093
01:27:04,060 --> 01:27:05,259
that wasn't in the
record and I'm sorry,

2094
01:27:05,259 --> 01:27:06,670
you want to take
them on trying to

2095
01:27:06,670 --> 01:27:08,275
protect you as
much as anything.

2096
01:27:08,275 --> 01:27:09,489
I Orland justice.

2097
01:27:09,489 --> 01:27:12,469
You go ahead and
here's his testimony.

2098
01:27:13,200 --> 01:27:16,460
Alright. If it's
not relevant.

2099
01:27:18,270 --> 01:27:20,484
Okay.

2100
01:27:20,484 --> 01:27:22,719
Thank you. Mr. Knutson.

2101
01:27:22,719 --> 01:27:24,189
My name is Susan ham

2102
01:27:24,189 --> 01:27:25,180
and then I've represented

2103
01:27:25,180 --> 01:27:27,039
ME Gibson on two
other occasions

2104
01:27:27,039 --> 01:27:28,060
regarding your property,

2105
01:27:28,060 --> 01:27:30,699
and she currently owns
and has owned for

2106
01:27:30,699 --> 01:27:32,949
40 years at 22.27

2107
01:27:32,949 --> 01:27:35,425
acre parcel out
in Pleasant Hill.

2108
01:27:35,425 --> 01:27:38,290
What I'm going
to do is give

2109
01:27:38,290 --> 01:27:38,380
you

2110
01:27:38,380 --> 01:27:40,645
a little background
information very briefly.

2111
01:27:40,645 --> 01:27:42,474
I am not a
land-use planner.

2112
01:27:42,474 --> 01:27:44,245
I'm not a land-use
attorney,

2113
01:27:44,245 --> 01:27:45,999
and I don't think
it's necessary that

2114
01:27:45,999 --> 01:27:47,829
may should have to
go out and hire one.

2115
01:27:47,829 --> 01:27:49,749
I'm a friend and
a former neighbor

2116
01:27:49,749 --> 01:27:51,700
and my expertise
is nursing.

2117
01:27:51,700 --> 01:27:53,589
But what I've done
is tried to gather

2118
01:27:53,589 --> 01:27:55,695
information relevant
to her case.

2119
01:27:55,695 --> 01:27:57,320
Let you know also that

2120
01:27:57,320 --> 01:27:59,780
her testimony has
kind of come at

2121
01:27:59,780 --> 01:28:01,850
the tail end of this
process because when

2122
01:28:01,850 --> 01:28:03,094
the first notice
is when out

2123
01:28:03,094 --> 01:28:04,729
almost two years ago,

2124
01:28:04,729 --> 01:28:06,559
I believe she
and her husband

2125
01:28:06,559 --> 01:28:08,359
both were in frail health

2126
01:28:08,359 --> 01:28:09,755
and put in a nursing home,

2127
01:28:09,755 --> 01:28:11,749
and she was not
knowledgeable of what was

2128
01:28:11,749 --> 01:28:14,120
taking place on her
property rezoning.

2129
01:28:14,120 --> 01:28:15,800
If you look before you,

2130
01:28:15,800 --> 01:28:18,050
I've tried to condense
today what's been in

2131
01:28:18,050 --> 01:28:20,749
the record before and
what you'll find.

2132
01:28:20,749 --> 01:28:21,949
And I'd like to make

2133
01:28:21,949 --> 01:28:24,680
some reference here
to some materials.

2134
01:28:24,680 --> 01:28:27,859
You should have
a verbatim copy

2135
01:28:27,859 --> 01:28:29,090
of what I'm going
to informally

2136
01:28:29,090 --> 01:28:30,634
addressed to
you my letter.

2137
01:28:30,634 --> 01:28:33,274
You will also have
some attachments.

2138
01:28:33,274 --> 01:28:35,659
The first
attachment I will

2139
01:28:35,659 --> 01:28:38,224
refer to is
county exhibit H,

2140
01:28:38,224 --> 01:28:39,965
which was a
supplemental findings

2141
01:28:39,965 --> 01:28:42,679
of Lane County in regards
to this property.

2142
01:28:42,679 --> 01:28:45,139
And specifically a letter

2143
01:28:45,139 --> 01:28:47,059
that I wrote in
defense of maize

2144
01:28:47,059 --> 01:28:48,439
stand on her property

2145
01:28:48,439 --> 01:28:53,120
rezoning dated ten
December 1990.

2146
01:28:53,120 --> 01:28:55,519
Additionally, I'm
going to give you

2147
01:28:55,519 --> 01:28:58,009
new evidence today,
which was quote,

2148
01:28:58,009 --> 01:29:01,940
lacking from
the report and

2149
01:29:01,940 --> 01:29:03,695
was an argument made by

2150
01:29:03,695 --> 01:29:06,065
Mr. whites group
at the LCD see,

2151
01:29:06,065 --> 01:29:08,059
which further
substantiates

2152
01:29:08,059 --> 01:29:09,769
the anomalies
of the land and

2153
01:29:09,769 --> 01:29:11,659
the soil that
really do render

2154
01:29:11,659 --> 01:29:13,954
it impracticable
for farm usage.

2155
01:29:13,954 --> 01:29:15,650
That is new information,

2156
01:29:15,650 --> 01:29:17,314
but it just substantiated

2157
01:29:17,314 --> 01:29:18,560
evidence I've
already given in

2158
01:29:18,560 --> 01:29:20,760
testimony in this case.

2159
01:29:21,070 --> 01:29:25,129
Additionally, let
me clarify here.

2160
01:29:25,129 --> 01:29:26,539
There were three
arguments at

2161
01:29:26,539 --> 01:29:28,339
the LCD see made

2162
01:29:28,339 --> 01:29:30,229
against the
landowner who is

2163
01:29:30,229 --> 01:29:32,645
attempting to keep the
rural resignation,

2164
01:29:32,645 --> 01:29:33,949
Rural Residential

2165
01:29:33,949 --> 01:29:35,840
five-acre minimum
designation.

2166
01:29:35,840 --> 01:29:38,119
Those arguments are that

2167
01:29:38,119 --> 01:29:39,230
missing from
the record was

2168
01:29:39,230 --> 01:29:40,969
the expert testimony from

2169
01:29:40,969 --> 01:29:43,819
the soils or regarding

2170
01:29:43,819 --> 01:29:45,485
the soils and
land anomalies.

2171
01:29:45,485 --> 01:29:47,600
Second, that the
county had failed to

2172
01:29:47,600 --> 01:29:49,970
show that adjacent
lands had

2173
01:29:49,970 --> 01:29:52,309
been irrevocably
committed to

2174
01:29:52,309 --> 01:29:53,510
other uses and

2175
01:29:53,510 --> 01:29:55,594
therefore made farming
impracticable.

2176
01:29:55,594 --> 01:29:57,860
And the third
argument was when

2177
01:29:57,860 --> 01:30:00,064
the county raise
their objection that

2178
01:30:00,064 --> 01:30:02,480
if it were more
extensively farm

2179
01:30:02,480 --> 01:30:04,565
to try to make this
farm profitable,

2180
01:30:04,565 --> 01:30:07,159
that adjacent landowners
were likely to

2181
01:30:07,159 --> 01:30:09,980
complain of more
extensive farming,

2182
01:30:09,980 --> 01:30:12,109
I E, chemical
applications,

2183
01:30:12,109 --> 01:30:15,005
organic fertilizers,
farm equipment.

2184
01:30:15,005 --> 01:30:17,629
I am going to give you
additional information

2185
01:30:17,629 --> 01:30:18,710
today very briefly that

2186
01:30:18,710 --> 01:30:20,074
addresses those issues.

2187
01:30:20,074 --> 01:30:24,439
And I think you'll

2188
01:30:24,439 --> 01:30:26,359
find from the record
that I present it will

2189
01:30:26,359 --> 01:30:28,339
contradict the
picture that the LCD.

2190
01:30:28,339 --> 01:30:29,435
So he has presented that

2191
01:30:29,435 --> 01:30:31,760
the argument does
not exist that

2192
01:30:31,760 --> 01:30:34,534
this land meets the model

2193
01:30:34,534 --> 01:30:38,310
for finding that it does
meet the exception.

2194
01:30:39,990 --> 01:30:43,089
In the highlighted
areas on my letter,

2195
01:30:43,089 --> 01:30:46,374
exhibit H, its attachment
13 to the record.

2196
01:30:46,374 --> 01:30:47,680
There's just a few things

2197
01:30:47,680 --> 01:30:48,550
highlighted that you might

2198
01:30:48,550 --> 01:30:50,509
want to take a look at.

2199
01:30:51,990 --> 01:30:54,520
The next most important
thing will be

2200
01:30:54,520 --> 01:30:56,319
the letter from Mr.
Ross pinhole again,

2201
01:30:56,319 --> 01:30:56,620
and he's

2202
01:30:56,620 --> 01:30:58,704
the Oregon State University
Extension agent.

2203
01:30:58,704 --> 01:31:01,030
He's been in the area
number of times.

2204
01:31:01,030 --> 01:31:03,190
He's consultant with
adjacent landowners

2205
01:31:03,190 --> 01:31:04,420
regarding difficulties

2206
01:31:04,420 --> 01:31:06,189
they've had with
orchard maintenance.

2207
01:31:06,189 --> 01:31:09,069
And he substantiates
the two types

2208
01:31:09,069 --> 01:31:10,510
of soil because of

2209
01:31:10,510 --> 01:31:13,210
underlying clay
deposits and

2210
01:31:13,210 --> 01:31:16,959
a high water table are
subject to flooding.

2211
01:31:16,959 --> 01:31:18,699
And in this
particular parcel,

2212
01:31:18,699 --> 01:31:20,590
I presented pictures taken

2213
01:31:20,590 --> 01:31:22,605
last November, I believe,

2214
01:31:22,605 --> 01:31:24,799
which showed
extensive areas of

2215
01:31:24,799 --> 01:31:26,780
the only access
road which is

2216
01:31:26,780 --> 01:31:29,254
a graph of ln shared
by approximately,

2217
01:31:29,254 --> 01:31:33,379
I'm going to say six
landowners underwater,

2218
01:31:33,379 --> 01:31:35,299
the land itself
underwater.

2219
01:31:35,299 --> 01:31:36,485
And as a result,

2220
01:31:36,485 --> 01:31:37,699
they've had difficulty on

2221
01:31:37,699 --> 01:31:39,620
this land keeping
it in orchard in

2222
01:31:39,620 --> 01:31:43,220
the orchard was abandoned
May 20 years ago.

2223
01:31:43,220 --> 01:31:46,529
The pulled fruit
off your orchard?

2224
01:31:47,650 --> 01:31:50,600
Well, it's been
many years ago

2225
01:31:50,600 --> 01:31:53,790
since you had active
orchard growing there?

2226
01:31:57,670 --> 01:32:00,410
It's it's been a
number of years.

2227
01:32:00,410 --> 01:32:04,369
They planted some
additional orchard in 1950.

2228
01:32:04,369 --> 01:32:06,260
And you'll see for Mr.

2229
01:32:06,260 --> 01:32:07,490
Ross been
hooligans letter,

2230
01:32:07,490 --> 01:32:09,620
he substantiates
the type of soils.

2231
01:32:09,620 --> 01:32:11,780
He makes reference
to the soils and

2232
01:32:11,780 --> 01:32:15,140
conservation district
map and further states.

2233
01:32:15,140 --> 01:32:16,610
There will be
a problem with

2234
01:32:16,610 --> 01:32:17,869
growing the three
crops that are

2235
01:32:17,869 --> 01:32:19,130
recommended by the LCD

2236
01:32:19,130 --> 01:32:22,010
see pasture which is
currently planted in.

2237
01:32:22,010 --> 01:32:23,464
And because of the soil

2238
01:32:23,464 --> 01:32:24,679
condition and the water,

2239
01:32:24,679 --> 01:32:26,389
they can only
get in one grass

2240
01:32:26,389 --> 01:32:28,114
cutting a year.

2241
01:32:28,114 --> 01:32:30,469
That land for 40 years has

2242
01:32:30,469 --> 01:32:33,560
yielded one cutting
of grass hay,

2243
01:32:33,560 --> 01:32:36,470
period, 1,700
bales last year,

2244
01:32:36,470 --> 01:32:39,619
$2 a bail, and it's
been sharecroppers.

2245
01:32:39,619 --> 01:32:43,835
And last year, Mrs.
Gibson's profit was $70.

2246
01:32:43,835 --> 01:32:46,295
The taxes are 2,100.

2247
01:32:46,295 --> 01:32:48,499
The second
recommendation is

2248
01:32:48,499 --> 01:32:50,179
it can be planted
back in filbert.

2249
01:32:50,179 --> 01:32:52,880
And before she
bought it in 1953,

2250
01:32:52,880 --> 01:32:55,384
it was planted in
an old filbert.

2251
01:32:55,384 --> 01:32:57,739
It was a failing
filbert orchard in

2252
01:32:57,739 --> 01:33:00,544
order to make it
marketable for filbert,

2253
01:33:00,544 --> 01:33:01,940
the recommendation
now is that you have

2254
01:33:01,940 --> 01:33:03,559
50 to 100 acres

2255
01:33:03,559 --> 01:33:06,500
planted and filbert
to make expenses.

2256
01:33:06,500 --> 01:33:08,539
The third item
is that it could

2257
01:33:08,539 --> 01:33:10,114
be planted in wheat,

2258
01:33:10,114 --> 01:33:11,839
but because of
the problems

2259
01:33:11,839 --> 01:33:13,550
again with the soil
and the water,

2260
01:33:13,550 --> 01:33:16,654
you can only plant a
summer variety tweet.

2261
01:33:16,654 --> 01:33:18,889
You can only go in there,

2262
01:33:18,889 --> 01:33:21,185
get it planted
and get it out.

2263
01:33:21,185 --> 01:33:23,599
Again. He shows
this statistics

2264
01:33:23,599 --> 01:33:24,500
economically to show

2265
01:33:24,500 --> 01:33:26,480
that it's not profitable.

2266
01:33:26,480 --> 01:33:28,610
The last argument was

2267
01:33:28,610 --> 01:33:34,480
that the argument wasn't

2268
01:33:34,480 --> 01:33:35,829
convincing enough to prove

2269
01:33:35,829 --> 01:33:38,095
that adjacent landowners

2270
01:33:38,095 --> 01:33:40,029
were likely to
complain if it was

2271
01:33:40,029 --> 01:33:42,294
more extensively farm
to make it profitable.

2272
01:33:42,294 --> 01:33:43,359
And I want you to keep in

2273
01:33:43,359 --> 01:33:44,650
mind and make
it profitable.

2274
01:33:44,650 --> 01:33:46,494
It is not an
irrigated farm.

2275
01:33:46,494 --> 01:33:49,690
It is not fence for
pasture or livestock.

2276
01:33:49,690 --> 01:33:51,204
For 40 years.

2277
01:33:51,204 --> 01:33:53,529
It's been a nice
little oasis of grass,

2278
01:33:53,529 --> 01:33:55,344
hay and that's
all it's been.

2279
01:33:55,344 --> 01:33:57,849
What you'll find, is
that also an attachment?

2280
01:33:57,849 --> 01:34:00,520
I believe it's marked
attachment number

2281
01:34:00,520 --> 01:34:02,470
two or three,

2282
01:34:02,470 --> 01:34:04,360
and it's a letter from

2283
01:34:04,360 --> 01:34:06,414
the adjacent landowners.

2284
01:34:06,414 --> 01:34:08,019
And of all of

2285
01:34:08,019 --> 01:34:10,510
the owners that I
approached last night,

2286
01:34:10,510 --> 01:34:12,850
none of them none

2287
01:34:12,850 --> 01:34:14,830
of them said that
they were willing to

2288
01:34:14,830 --> 01:34:17,050
see that extensively
farmed if

2289
01:34:17,050 --> 01:34:20,095
it meant pesticide
application,

2290
01:34:20,095 --> 01:34:22,780
organic fertilizers
being on

2291
01:34:22,780 --> 01:34:26,540
the property and sprayed.

2292
01:34:28,590 --> 01:34:30,999
And I'd like to add here,

2293
01:34:30,999 --> 01:34:32,725
and this is
personal testimony,

2294
01:34:32,725 --> 01:34:34,419
but I'm a mother of
a four-year-old son

2295
01:34:34,419 --> 01:34:36,770
who's multiple
handicapped,

2296
01:34:36,840 --> 01:34:39,445
most likely attributed

2297
01:34:39,445 --> 01:34:41,245
to pesticide application,

2298
01:34:41,245 --> 01:34:42,789
household pesticides

2299
01:34:42,789 --> 01:34:44,529
used during my pregnancy.

2300
01:34:44,529 --> 01:34:47,679
I don't want you to
take that lightly.

2301
01:34:47,679 --> 01:34:50,350
The last thing I'm
gonna do to wrap up in

2302
01:34:50,350 --> 01:34:51,399
defense of this property's

2303
01:34:51,399 --> 01:34:52,929
current zoning is if you

2304
01:34:52,929 --> 01:34:56,510
will look at the sitemap
and there it's been

2305
01:34:56,510 --> 01:34:58,339
updated what I've given
you as a copy because

2306
01:34:58,339 --> 01:34:59,479
some additional
dwellings have

2307
01:34:59,479 --> 01:35:01,054
been built
within the area.

2308
01:35:01,054 --> 01:35:02,750
But this particular
exception

2309
01:35:02,750 --> 01:35:04,355
area is very dense.

2310
01:35:04,355 --> 01:35:06,305
All around this little 20

2311
01:35:06,305 --> 01:35:08,164
acre oasis of grass hay.

2312
01:35:08,164 --> 01:35:10,070
You have one to
five acre parcels.

2313
01:35:10,070 --> 01:35:12,870
They are all
family residences.

2314
01:35:13,180 --> 01:35:16,069
And it seems to

2315
01:35:16,069 --> 01:35:17,959
me very difficult
to understand how

2316
01:35:17,959 --> 01:35:20,269
this body would
not find that it

2317
01:35:20,269 --> 01:35:23,089
is irrevocably committed
to other uses.

2318
01:35:23,089 --> 01:35:25,160
It's a small community

2319
01:35:25,160 --> 01:35:27,020
that has developed over
30 years period of

2320
01:35:27,020 --> 01:35:29,975
time that our Rural
Residential landowners

2321
01:35:29,975 --> 01:35:32,809
and may would like to
speak to you today.

2322
01:35:32,809 --> 01:35:34,220
She's been in
ill-health and not able

2323
01:35:34,220 --> 01:35:35,975
to come to any of
the other hearings.

2324
01:35:35,975 --> 01:35:37,790
Just a dress with you.

2325
01:35:37,790 --> 01:35:39,470
Why this is
important to her

2326
01:35:39,470 --> 01:35:42,454
and keeping her rural
residential zoning.

2327
01:35:42,454 --> 01:35:44,494
And I would like to
turn it over to her.

2328
01:35:44,494 --> 01:35:46,039
Let her speak
from your heart.

2329
01:35:46,039 --> 01:35:47,930
There's also a
written letter,

2330
01:35:47,930 --> 01:35:51,125
a one-page letter
that I exerted

2331
01:35:51,125 --> 01:35:52,940
yesterday from

2332
01:35:52,940 --> 01:35:55,775
a verbatim interview
I had with her,

2333
01:35:55,775 --> 01:35:57,919
basically trying
to state her case.

2334
01:35:57,919 --> 01:35:59,300
She and her husband
have tried to

2335
01:35:59,300 --> 01:36:00,575
farm it for 40 years.

2336
01:36:00,575 --> 01:36:02,615
It's not been a
profitable farm.

2337
01:36:02,615 --> 01:36:03,890
And she would like

2338
01:36:03,890 --> 01:36:05,059
you to find in
her favor and

2339
01:36:05,059 --> 01:36:08,430
retain the Rural
Residential A5 designation?

2340
01:36:32,040 --> 01:36:34,569
Right. What I want to
let you know on that

2341
01:36:34,569 --> 01:36:36,100
just to clarify,
originally,

2342
01:36:36,100 --> 01:36:39,819
this farm was
approximately 28 acres

2343
01:36:39,819 --> 01:36:41,169
and I don't know the exact

2344
01:36:41,169 --> 01:36:42,699
dates the county
records would show it,

2345
01:36:42,699 --> 01:36:43,840
but nearest I
can tell from

2346
01:36:43,840 --> 01:36:46,929
her history is
about in 1987.

2347
01:36:46,929 --> 01:36:48,969
They partitioned
off five acres

2348
01:36:48,969 --> 01:36:51,519
legally and sold it to
an adjoining neighbor.

2349
01:36:51,519 --> 01:36:53,740
At that time, they were
hoping to sell off

2350
01:36:53,740 --> 01:36:55,869
all the adjacent land on

2351
01:36:55,869 --> 01:36:58,944
the farm because they
were 80 years old,

2352
01:36:58,944 --> 01:37:02,940
almost mid-80s, and
just keep the home.

2353
01:37:02,940 --> 01:37:05,179
The surrounding land
that's been developed,

2354
01:37:05,179 --> 01:37:06,814
which is approximately
two acres,

2355
01:37:06,814 --> 01:37:08,629
which brings you
right down to

2356
01:37:08,629 --> 01:37:11,284
20 acre minimum
practicable farming.

2357
01:37:11,284 --> 01:37:13,790
And the county told
them you can't

2358
01:37:13,790 --> 01:37:16,085
do it because of
this lawsuit.

2359
01:37:16,085 --> 01:37:17,554
We can't let you sell it

2360
01:37:17,554 --> 01:37:19,744
except as a 20 acre farm.

2361
01:37:19,744 --> 01:37:21,620
So what you see there

2362
01:37:21,620 --> 01:37:24,064
was part of the
original 28 acres.

2363
01:37:24,064 --> 01:37:26,210
It's been partitioned
off legally.

2364
01:37:26,210 --> 01:37:27,889
There is a
proposed home site

2365
01:37:27,889 --> 01:37:28,940
where that landowner,

2366
01:37:28,940 --> 01:37:30,860
Mr. Petsko, Cki intense,

2367
01:37:30,860 --> 01:37:32,929
I believe it's him
to build on it.

2368
01:37:32,929 --> 01:37:35,149
And I penciled in some
additional homes.

2369
01:37:35,149 --> 01:37:36,530
There's one in
blue, I believe

2370
01:37:36,530 --> 01:37:37,984
a cross Marriott Lane,

2371
01:37:37,984 --> 01:37:40,325
which was just
built in 1988.

2372
01:37:40,325 --> 01:37:42,739
But it's again, I
present this to

2373
01:37:42,739 --> 01:37:43,820
you because you
can't see it

2374
01:37:43,820 --> 01:37:45,019
from aerial photographs.

2375
01:37:45,019 --> 01:37:46,249
You can't see
it unless you

2376
01:37:46,249 --> 01:37:47,599
live in the
neighborhood like Man,

2377
01:37:47,599 --> 01:37:48,979
I have for years.

2378
01:37:48,979 --> 01:37:50,629
It is a very densely

2379
01:37:50,629 --> 01:37:53,524
populated, rural,
residential community.

2380
01:37:53,524 --> 01:37:54,830
And Marriott lane is

2381
01:37:54,830 --> 01:37:56,599
a public bus stop for
schools, children,

2382
01:37:56,599 --> 01:37:58,565
and it's the
only ingress and

2383
01:37:58,565 --> 01:38:02,190
egress for farm equipment
onto the property?

2384
01:38:13,450 --> 01:38:15,650
I am not sure whether it

2385
01:38:15,650 --> 01:38:17,449
is a separate parcel.

2386
01:38:17,449 --> 01:38:18,470
I do know that
it isn't the

2387
01:38:18,470 --> 01:38:19,760
same ownership as a

2388
01:38:19,760 --> 01:38:23,464
20 has a lower big
piece of property.

2389
01:38:23,464 --> 01:38:27,199
It shows it as well as
a lot of number 801.

2390
01:38:27,199 --> 01:38:28,760
So it is a
separate parts of

2391
01:38:28,760 --> 01:38:30,740
the parcels
legally divide it,

2392
01:38:30,740 --> 01:38:31,820
but they don't
have a right to

2393
01:38:31,820 --> 01:38:33,049
build on it because of

2394
01:38:33,049 --> 01:38:35,825
this other issue. They're
held up right now.

2395
01:38:35,825 --> 01:38:42,244
Building on the
five acre parcel

2396
01:38:42,244 --> 01:38:44,449
was still unapproved as

2397
01:38:44,449 --> 01:38:46,879
of this last go
around and it has,

2398
01:38:46,879 --> 01:38:48,844
according to this
recommendation,

2399
01:38:48,844 --> 01:38:50,060
is going to be approved

2400
01:38:50,060 --> 01:38:51,290
so that one is out
of the picture.

2401
01:38:51,290 --> 01:38:53,645
It's now simply the
22 acre parcel.

2402
01:38:53,645 --> 01:38:56,014
And what's what's
at stake here

2403
01:38:56,014 --> 01:38:58,370
is there is a house on
the property already.

2404
01:38:58,370 --> 01:38:59,450
What's at stake is whether

2405
01:38:59,450 --> 01:39:00,739
there would be
the right to

2406
01:39:00,739 --> 01:39:04,204
divide the property
further weight.

2407
01:39:04,204 --> 01:39:09,134
There's a house on
the 22's bigger? Yes.

2408
01:39:09,134 --> 01:39:11,409
Just a tax law.

2409
01:39:11,409 --> 01:39:12,489
800. 800.

2410
01:39:12,489 --> 01:39:13,849
Yes.

2411
01:39:42,510 --> 01:39:45,019
They've got to do

2412
01:40:01,690 --> 01:40:02,929
which

2413
01:40:02,929 --> 01:40:05,459
is the separate personal

2414
01:40:20,650 --> 01:40:23,149
and I believe it's
the purple one

2415
01:40:23,149 --> 01:40:24,665
with the little
black square,

2416
01:40:24,665 --> 01:40:26,090
which is immediately
to the East.

2417
01:40:26,090 --> 01:40:29,190
That was the home that
was built in 1988.

2418
01:40:33,430 --> 01:40:37,939
It's a legal parcel
partitioned off in 1979.

2419
01:40:37,939 --> 01:40:40,955
It was granted exception
under this rule,

2420
01:40:40,955 --> 01:40:42,590
and it enjoys the ability

2421
01:40:42,590 --> 01:40:44,000
to go ahead and
build a home site,

2422
01:40:44,000 --> 01:40:46,460
which I believe is
their intention.

2423
01:40:46,460 --> 01:40:48,920
Excuse me, that's
actually recommended

2424
01:40:48,920 --> 01:40:50,240
for your action today.

2425
01:40:50,240 --> 01:40:53,010
It's among the properties.

2426
01:40:53,920 --> 01:40:56,509
This diagram of yours
that you handed

2427
01:40:56,509 --> 01:40:59,810
us shows 801 as being
part of the exception.

2428
01:40:59,810 --> 01:41:00,349
Yes.

2429
01:41:00,349 --> 01:41:02,884
Yes. It's part of
the exception arrows

2430
01:41:02,884 --> 01:41:04,429
shows that as part
of what is being

2431
01:41:04,429 --> 01:41:06,019
refused to be an
exception. Yes.

2432
01:41:06,019 --> 01:41:08,314
And that's obsolete.
It's only 800 right now.

2433
01:41:08,314 --> 01:41:16,830
Okay. So this is
wrong. All right.

2434
01:41:20,640 --> 01:41:23,470
Pink parcel lot tax law

2435
01:41:23,470 --> 01:41:26,874
800 parcel to the
known by May Gibson,

2436
01:41:26,874 --> 01:41:29,575
an existing norm on
the person you're

2437
01:41:29,575 --> 01:41:30,819
writing lower right-hand

2438
01:41:30,819 --> 01:41:32,469
corner shows in existence?

2439
01:41:32,469 --> 01:41:33,954
That's correct.

2440
01:41:33,954 --> 01:41:35,530
This has been
their family home

2441
01:41:35,530 --> 01:41:36,759
since they bought
the property.

2442
01:41:36,759 --> 01:41:38,560
They lived in a trailer
for awhile and built

2443
01:41:38,560 --> 01:41:40,839
on it in 1960 or 61,

2444
01:41:40,839 --> 01:41:43,285
and that is an existing
family dwelling.

2445
01:41:43,285 --> 01:41:45,550
Although it's
been abandoned,

2446
01:41:45,550 --> 01:41:46,930
vacated for two years

2447
01:41:46,930 --> 01:41:49,400
while they've been in
nursing home care.

2448
01:42:14,700 --> 01:42:17,509
Here's a map of the

2449
01:42:37,380 --> 01:42:41,690
fearfully they
stand still.

2450
01:42:56,050 --> 01:42:58,220
I had my eight-year-old
daughter

2451
01:42:58,220 --> 01:42:59,330
color those last night,

2452
01:42:59,330 --> 01:43:00,769
so I hope you don't have

2453
01:43:00,769 --> 01:43:03,630
irregular colored areas.

2454
01:43:20,980 --> 01:43:23,630
Well, we got we
got a discrepancy,

2455
01:43:23,630 --> 01:43:24,889
I guess in the
objection, we got

2456
01:43:24,889 --> 01:43:26,705
a list of tax law to 800,

2457
01:43:26,705 --> 01:43:28,385
and then we've got a map

2458
01:43:28,385 --> 01:43:29,720
showing the area
outlined in

2459
01:43:29,720 --> 01:43:32,705
black that includes
both tax law.

2460
01:43:32,705 --> 01:43:42,260
So it's the findings

2461
01:43:42,260 --> 01:43:45,725
were based on the area
of maps identified.

2462
01:43:45,725 --> 01:43:50,840
Well, is 801, in
fact, legal tax law?

2463
01:43:50,840 --> 01:43:53,089
It is illegal tax law.

2464
01:43:53,089 --> 01:43:55,140
Right. Okay.

2465
01:43:56,110 --> 01:43:58,999
Well, one as well as we

2466
01:43:58,999 --> 01:44:01,069
need clarification
from the objectors

2467
01:44:01,069 --> 01:44:04,685
whether they met
just Tax lot 800 or

2468
01:44:04,685 --> 01:44:06,485
both or the map

2469
01:44:06,485 --> 01:44:09,050
description which
includes both tasks lots.

2470
01:44:09,050 --> 01:44:10,400
Is there a discrepancy in

2471
01:44:10,400 --> 01:44:14,679
the objection letter
that states well,

2472
01:44:14,679 --> 01:44:16,240
then they're not
objecting and

2473
01:44:16,240 --> 01:44:19,850
their map shows a11 also.

2474
01:44:22,470 --> 01:44:25,149
Map was generated months

2475
01:44:25,149 --> 01:44:27,654
ago because of a
previous objection.

2476
01:44:27,654 --> 01:44:29,470
And my understanding
when I read

2477
01:44:29,470 --> 01:44:30,999
their letter was that they

2478
01:44:30,999 --> 01:44:32,500
recognized that that was

2479
01:44:32,500 --> 01:44:34,599
a separate parcel in
separate ownership.

2480
01:44:34,599 --> 01:44:37,930
There's a
subsurface sewage

2481
01:44:37,930 --> 01:44:39,895
disposal system
in the ground.

2482
01:44:39,895 --> 01:44:42,189
And my understanding of

2483
01:44:42,189 --> 01:44:43,299
their letter was
that they were

2484
01:44:43,299 --> 01:44:45,294
dropping the objection
to that property.

2485
01:44:45,294 --> 01:44:46,719
Well, we're we're gonna go

2486
01:44:46,719 --> 01:44:48,235
by the written record.

2487
01:44:48,235 --> 01:44:49,735
That's fine. That's fine.

2488
01:44:49,735 --> 01:44:54,139
I wouldn't a11 who
has been sold?

2489
01:44:57,330 --> 01:44:59,740
I can't tell you
when it was sold.

2490
01:44:59,740 --> 01:45:01,240
I know it was
divided legally in

2491
01:45:01,240 --> 01:45:02,769
1979 and it's not

2492
01:45:02,769 --> 01:45:04,255
it's in separate
ownership here.

2493
01:45:04,255 --> 01:45:05,814
Separate ownership, yes.

2494
01:45:05,814 --> 01:45:07,419
That's correct.
From a Gibson,

2495
01:45:07,419 --> 01:45:09,070
the patch your
hotkeys are the ones

2496
01:45:09,070 --> 01:45:10,749
who own the adjacent lot.

2497
01:45:10,749 --> 01:45:12,279
And 801 was partitioned

2498
01:45:12,279 --> 01:45:13,750
off and sold by
Lynn and may

2499
01:45:13,750 --> 01:45:15,999
Gibson whenever it was

2500
01:45:15,999 --> 01:45:17,739
legally partitioned
in 1979,

2501
01:45:17,739 --> 01:45:19,789
according to county maps?

2502
01:45:20,940 --> 01:45:24,819
Yes, she would like
to. Thank you.

2503
01:45:24,819 --> 01:45:27,010
I'd like you to
understand too,

2504
01:45:27,010 --> 01:45:30,979
that her husband passed
away in January.

2505
01:45:41,100 --> 01:45:43,840
I don't quite understand

2506
01:45:43,840 --> 01:45:46,209
much about this
and less now

2507
01:45:46,209 --> 01:45:49,149
than ever before because

2508
01:45:49,149 --> 01:45:52,119
before my husband
passed away,

2509
01:45:52,119 --> 01:45:54,490
whenever we had in
the legal business,

2510
01:45:54,490 --> 01:45:57,160
he was the one
who took care of

2511
01:45:57,160 --> 01:46:01,825
land and the outside
while I did the inside.

2512
01:46:01,825 --> 01:46:08,199
So but they want

2513
01:46:08,199 --> 01:46:09,789
me to lead up to how

2514
01:46:09,789 --> 01:46:12,590
why we bought
the property.

2515
01:46:19,260 --> 01:46:24,935
No, it hasn't. We've
never sold anything.

2516
01:46:24,935 --> 01:46:27,950
I then then the
hay crop and

2517
01:46:27,950 --> 01:46:33,380
that's for sharing it.

2518
01:46:33,380 --> 01:46:35,600
Two-thirds to

2519
01:46:35,600 --> 01:46:39,410
the other person
and one-third we

2520
01:46:39,410 --> 01:46:42,800
got and that's that's

2521
01:46:42,800 --> 01:46:45,740
all it has ever
been taken on it.

2522
01:46:45,740 --> 01:46:47,029
There hasn't even been

2523
01:46:47,029 --> 01:46:50,194
$0.05 worth of
anything taken off.

2524
01:46:50,194 --> 01:46:52,759
We had plenty to give.

2525
01:46:52,759 --> 01:46:57,800
My husband wanted the
home because he he,

2526
01:46:57,800 --> 01:46:59,820
um, he's a builder.

2527
01:46:59,820 --> 01:47:03,124
We came from Salt
Lake City and

2528
01:47:03,124 --> 01:47:07,220
his app sister lived up in

2529
01:47:07,220 --> 01:47:09,919
low and they wrote

2530
01:47:09,919 --> 01:47:11,929
down and told us
about the dam.

2531
01:47:11,929 --> 01:47:13,925
The two dam is going in,

2532
01:47:13,925 --> 01:47:20,345
the Point Lookout and
the texture regulation

2533
01:47:20,345 --> 01:47:24,440
than my husband came

2534
01:47:24,440 --> 01:47:25,880
up to say about it and he

2535
01:47:25,880 --> 01:47:27,829
decided to come up

2536
01:47:27,829 --> 01:47:31,655
and be able to
trailer park,

2537
01:47:31,655 --> 01:47:35,970
which was alpine
villa trailer park.

2538
01:47:37,240 --> 01:47:42,485
And we owned and
operated that.

2539
01:47:42,485 --> 01:47:46,714
The four of us,
Mr. Mrs. Evans,

2540
01:47:46,714 --> 01:47:49,505
most Evans and ester,

2541
01:47:49,505 --> 01:47:52,984
and myself and my husband.

2542
01:47:52,984 --> 01:47:57,020
And we operated it

2543
01:47:57,020 --> 01:47:59,029
fully all through
the time that

2544
01:47:59,029 --> 01:48:00,770
they were working
on the dam.

2545
01:48:00,770 --> 01:48:04,175
And then when the
damn close finished,

2546
01:48:04,175 --> 01:48:09,935
everything was completed
for the two dams.

2547
01:48:09,935 --> 01:48:13,069
Then we've moved
from up in

2548
01:48:13,069 --> 01:48:14,719
Lowell and bought

2549
01:48:14,719 --> 01:48:17,375
the property and
Pleasant Hill.

2550
01:48:17,375 --> 01:48:20,389
And my husband had

2551
01:48:20,389 --> 01:48:22,459
always wanted a
piece of land,

2552
01:48:22,459 --> 01:48:25,769
more like as
an investment.

2553
01:48:27,370 --> 01:48:31,369
Later years. So I

2554
01:48:31,369 --> 01:48:38,369
think I'm sorry.
Please forgive me.

2555
01:48:39,490 --> 01:48:42,590
It makes a big difference.

2556
01:48:42,590 --> 01:48:47,059
One's life. So he
always did this.

2557
01:48:47,059 --> 01:48:51,530
And this is his
way, his work.

2558
01:48:51,530 --> 01:48:58,040
And of course I'd be
a good excuse me,

2559
01:48:58,040 --> 01:49:02,390
on the business part of
speaking about land,

2560
01:49:02,390 --> 01:49:04,610
but I would like
to make a plea

2561
01:49:04,610 --> 01:49:07,235
that if at all possible,

2562
01:49:07,235 --> 01:49:11,710
I would load the have
the land shows that we

2563
01:49:11,710 --> 01:49:17,560
were in the area.

2564
01:49:17,560 --> 01:49:20,395
We could do what we want.

2565
01:49:20,395 --> 01:49:24,460
Then is we
principles that we

2566
01:49:24,460 --> 01:49:26,709
bought that
purchased the land

2567
01:49:26,709 --> 01:49:27,999
for Mr. Mrs. rate,

2568
01:49:27,999 --> 01:49:35,064
a bar, and he wanted to
build a home for us.

2569
01:49:35,064 --> 01:49:40,900
And so he bad news

2570
01:49:40,900 --> 01:49:42,820
for the work that was

2571
01:49:42,820 --> 01:49:45,130
the building of the home.

2572
01:49:45,130 --> 01:49:48,580
And then he also

2573
01:49:48,580 --> 01:49:52,674
wanted to always
have a garden,

2574
01:49:52,674 --> 01:49:56,320
a vegetable garden
especially.

2575
01:49:56,320 --> 01:49:58,870
And he wanted about one of

2576
01:49:58,870 --> 01:50:02,900
everything that
we, everybody.

2577
01:50:02,900 --> 01:50:04,810
And he wanted
to plant one,

2578
01:50:04,810 --> 01:50:07,000
Let's see here how
he came out on it.

2579
01:50:07,000 --> 01:50:09,799
And he did have a very,

2580
01:50:09,990 --> 01:50:13,359
very wonderful
vegetable garden.

2581
01:50:13,359 --> 01:50:16,134
But as for the
fruit trees,

2582
01:50:16,134 --> 01:50:17,860
we bought about, oh,

2583
01:50:17,860 --> 01:50:20,860
I don't know
exactly how many,

2584
01:50:20,860 --> 01:50:30,294
but it was 20-25
or 31 of each of

2585
01:50:30,294 --> 01:50:32,680
the various kind that

2586
01:50:32,680 --> 01:50:35,169
he was venture
some he liked to

2587
01:50:35,169 --> 01:50:37,760
see what plant
something and then

2588
01:50:37,760 --> 01:50:40,999
how it turns out and
see what it has to say.

2589
01:50:40,999 --> 01:50:44,975
So we put in almonds,

2590
01:50:44,975 --> 01:50:46,609
and the almond
tree came to

2591
01:50:46,609 --> 01:50:51,770
a beautiful flush of

2592
01:50:51,770 --> 01:50:56,149
flowers once the
spring the first time.

2593
01:50:56,149 --> 01:51:00,934
And hadn't many
almonds on it.

2594
01:51:00,934 --> 01:51:05,314
But it froze Just after
the leaves come out,

2595
01:51:05,314 --> 01:51:09,530
are the flowers came
there, went the almonds.

2596
01:51:09,530 --> 01:51:11,360
We may never
do that again.

2597
01:51:11,360 --> 01:51:13,234
Never bloomed, began.

2598
01:51:13,234 --> 01:51:15,499
Several things in there,

2599
01:51:15,499 --> 01:51:18,050
took one tree
after another.

2600
01:51:18,050 --> 01:51:20,584
And Core Suite
thought, well,

2601
01:51:20,584 --> 01:51:22,430
I suppose food isn't for

2602
01:51:22,430 --> 01:51:24,260
us because we can
make it turned

2603
01:51:24,260 --> 01:51:25,879
out the pear tree had

2604
01:51:25,879 --> 01:51:28,385
one pair on that and
the other one had two.

2605
01:51:28,385 --> 01:51:30,200
So we just thought we

2606
01:51:30,200 --> 01:51:33,859
weren't born
to be farmers.

2607
01:51:33,859 --> 01:51:37,685
Farmers who were actually
born and not made.

2608
01:51:37,685 --> 01:51:41,930
So that was the fruit out,

2609
01:51:41,930 --> 01:51:45,680
but he did have
wonderful vegetables of

2610
01:51:45,680 --> 01:51:47,089
every kind and

2611
01:51:47,089 --> 01:51:50,509
beautiful and Jubilee
corn sweetcorn.

2612
01:51:50,509 --> 01:51:51,980
He loved that.

2613
01:51:51,980 --> 01:51:54,439
That was always been

2614
01:51:54,439 --> 01:51:56,450
a childish desire of his

2615
01:51:56,450 --> 01:51:59,044
so that he could
have this garden.

2616
01:51:59,044 --> 01:52:00,950
So he planned to that.

2617
01:52:00,950 --> 01:52:04,205
And then his sister,

2618
01:52:04,205 --> 01:52:06,649
her husband
passed away too,

2619
01:52:06,649 --> 01:52:09,800
and she lived down
in Springfield

2620
01:52:09,800 --> 01:52:15,125
where there is Gibson,

2621
01:52:15,125 --> 01:52:18,620
I think I think

2622
01:52:18,620 --> 01:52:20,510
we understand
that the farming

2623
01:52:20,510 --> 01:52:23,390
situation with a
property and I think

2624
01:52:23,390 --> 01:52:25,429
unless commissioners
Commissioners have

2625
01:52:25,429 --> 01:52:26,840
any other questions, ms.

2626
01:52:26,840 --> 01:52:30,590
Gibson? Les
issue, you have

2627
01:52:30,590 --> 01:52:31,519
a few more things
you'd like

2628
01:52:31,519 --> 01:52:32,630
to say and I just

2629
01:52:32,630 --> 01:52:35,315
like to tell you
about weirdo low.

2630
01:52:35,315 --> 01:52:38,660
So his sister, the word

2631
01:52:38,660 --> 01:52:41,869
that he had taken
orange boxes,

2632
01:52:41,869 --> 01:52:45,079
the big boxes and fill
them with as many.

2633
01:52:45,079 --> 01:52:46,849
There were six
widows there and

2634
01:52:46,849 --> 01:52:49,579
his sister was one
that made seven.

2635
01:52:49,579 --> 01:52:51,319
So he would feel

2636
01:52:51,319 --> 01:52:54,770
these boxes and take
them down and one for

2637
01:52:54,770 --> 01:52:56,990
one box for each leaf

2638
01:52:56,990 --> 01:52:59,150
and that is just your
house and she would

2639
01:52:59,150 --> 01:53:01,730
call up each of them
and tell them that they

2640
01:53:01,730 --> 01:53:03,859
were the vegetables there

2641
01:53:03,859 --> 01:53:05,555
and they'd come
down and get it.

2642
01:53:05,555 --> 01:53:08,314
But he always call
that widows road.

2643
01:53:08,314 --> 01:53:10,400
He had to have some
for widows road.

2644
01:53:10,400 --> 01:53:12,455
But never a penny.

2645
01:53:12,455 --> 01:53:14,600
Never ever take
anything for

2646
01:53:14,600 --> 01:53:17,150
it other than
just I thank you.

2647
01:53:17,150 --> 01:53:18,170
Thank you.

2648
01:53:18,170 --> 01:53:21,409
Let's questions from
the commission.

2649
01:53:21,409 --> 01:53:23,629
I think that that helps us

2650
01:53:23,629 --> 01:53:25,610
understand the situation
with the property

2651
01:53:25,610 --> 01:53:29,300
very well. Thank you.

2652
01:53:29,300 --> 01:53:32,870
It is certainly
the one thing

2653
01:53:32,870 --> 01:53:35,450
that we haven't I
haven't said Oh,

2654
01:53:35,450 --> 01:53:36,800
you told though about

2655
01:53:36,800 --> 01:53:38,480
limb passing
away, didn't you?

2656
01:53:38,480 --> 01:53:43,564
Yes. You did
on 28 January.

2657
01:53:43,564 --> 01:53:45,149
Thank you.

2658
01:53:45,250 --> 01:53:47,750
And with that,
just in closing,

2659
01:53:47,750 --> 01:53:49,669
what she was trying
to convey I think is

2660
01:53:49,669 --> 01:53:52,039
that since Linnaeus
passed away,

2661
01:53:52,039 --> 01:53:53,344
It's important to her,

2662
01:53:53,344 --> 01:53:54,619
her family is considering

2663
01:53:54,619 --> 01:53:55,850
having her move down to

2664
01:53:55,850 --> 01:53:57,439
Salt Lake and
getting this thing

2665
01:53:57,439 --> 01:53:59,704
settled once and for all.

2666
01:53:59,704 --> 01:54:01,579
Thank you for considering
the testimony,

2667
01:54:01,579 --> 01:54:03,899
for helping with
a testimony.

2668
01:54:08,410 --> 01:54:11,400
Julius Benedick.

2669
01:54:11,950 --> 01:54:13,940
Chairman? Yes.

2670
01:54:13,940 --> 01:54:15,664
Oh, yeah.

2671
01:54:15,664 --> 01:54:16,685
Yeah.

2672
01:54:16,685 --> 01:54:18,319
I just want to make
sure what we do with

2673
01:54:18,319 --> 01:54:21,140
these documents will allow

2674
01:54:21,140 --> 01:54:24,959
us to take testimony.