1
00:00:01,500 --> 00:00:07,510
Is that going out
over the airwaves?

2
00:00:07,510 --> 00:00:09,760
Is that is that

3
00:00:09,760 --> 00:00:11,874
is anybody getting
any magnification.

4
00:00:11,874 --> 00:00:13,240
You're hearing?
Something like that.

5
00:00:13,240 --> 00:00:14,710
Usually here a little echo

6
00:00:14,710 --> 00:00:17,090
or something,
tell lights on.

7
00:00:18,150 --> 00:00:21,769
We're gonna go ahead
and get started.

8
00:00:22,140 --> 00:00:25,045
We're going to
modify our agenda,

9
00:00:25,045 --> 00:00:26,440
the order of our
agenda slightly

10
00:00:26,440 --> 00:00:27,669
in order to accommodate
the fact that

11
00:00:27,669 --> 00:00:30,579
two of our members
are not yet here.

12
00:00:30,579 --> 00:00:31,930
One ran into a guard

13
00:00:31,930 --> 00:00:33,549
rail jogging this morning.

14
00:00:33,549 --> 00:00:34,870
And is it the

15
00:00:34,870 --> 00:00:37,720
emergency getting
stitched or something?

16
00:00:37,720 --> 00:00:42,374
So Ginni as they're
attending to

17
00:00:42,374 --> 00:00:45,679
the wounded member
and we do you know

18
00:00:45,679 --> 00:00:48,965
any letter any new
information? Okay.

19
00:00:48,965 --> 00:00:51,530
Well, we weren't expecting
them to be here,

20
00:00:51,530 --> 00:00:53,465
but except it's a heck

21
00:00:53,465 --> 00:00:55,790
of a way to
either get or not

22
00:00:55,790 --> 00:00:57,649
get a vote on

23
00:00:57,649 --> 00:00:59,000
the condition that she

24
00:00:59,000 --> 00:01:00,184
pushed him into
the guard rail.

25
00:01:00,184 --> 00:01:04,595
I'm wondering Carroll,

26
00:01:04,595 --> 00:01:06,334
the button the switch

27
00:01:06,334 --> 00:01:07,909
in front of right
in front of us,

28
00:01:07,909 --> 00:01:13,940
which is a red light,

29
00:01:13,940 --> 00:01:15,650
means it's on me.

30
00:01:15,650 --> 00:01:16,940
Share this link, you know,

31
00:01:16,940 --> 00:01:21,200
the Supreme can control.

32
00:01:21,200 --> 00:01:22,159
You see the red lighter,

33
00:01:22,159 --> 00:01:24,319
but we know it's alright.

34
00:01:24,319 --> 00:01:27,170
Um, let's take
up we're going

35
00:01:27,170 --> 00:01:29,239
to just in terms

36
00:01:29,239 --> 00:01:31,190
of an announcement
for the audience.

37
00:01:31,190 --> 00:01:32,630
Agenda item eight, we

38
00:01:32,630 --> 00:01:34,279
are going to postpone
for a little bit,

39
00:01:34,279 --> 00:01:35,870
and there will be
public comment on

40
00:01:35,870 --> 00:01:38,400
that if anybody
wishes to comment.

41
00:01:39,040 --> 00:01:41,570
But let's take up
agenda item nine,

42
00:01:41,570 --> 00:01:44,359
Department of Energy
certification.

43
00:01:44,359 --> 00:01:50,224
Jim, do you want
a good morning?

44
00:01:50,224 --> 00:01:51,890
I'm Jim died
from the staff.

45
00:01:51,890 --> 00:01:53,465
This is item nine,

46
00:01:53,465 --> 00:01:55,129
SAC certification

47
00:01:55,129 --> 00:01:56,645
for the Department
of Energy.

48
00:01:56,645 --> 00:01:57,830
This morning we have with

49
00:01:57,830 --> 00:01:59,269
us from the department,

50
00:01:59,269 --> 00:02:01,084
like rainy,
Deputy Director

51
00:02:01,084 --> 00:02:03,409
and legal counsel
Walter Perry.

52
00:02:03,409 --> 00:02:05,090
You have the report and

53
00:02:05,090 --> 00:02:07,280
the cover memo
in your books.

54
00:02:07,280 --> 00:02:09,619
The agency has done

55
00:02:09,619 --> 00:02:12,320
a good job in analyzing
its programs.

56
00:02:12,320 --> 00:02:14,840
And you will
see as you read

57
00:02:14,840 --> 00:02:17,360
the report that
the agency has

58
00:02:17,360 --> 00:02:18,709
conclusion which we concur

59
00:02:18,709 --> 00:02:20,360
with as I did not have

60
00:02:20,360 --> 00:02:22,954
any problems
affecting land use

61
00:02:22,954 --> 00:02:25,730
as the SAC process
defines it.

62
00:02:25,730 --> 00:02:28,655
However, we have
provided you

63
00:02:28,655 --> 00:02:30,110
an extended
discussion about

64
00:02:30,110 --> 00:02:30,560
the role of

65
00:02:30,560 --> 00:02:32,239
the energy facility
siting Council,

66
00:02:32,239 --> 00:02:33,709
which is the state's

67
00:02:33,709 --> 00:02:35,060
special siting process for

68
00:02:35,060 --> 00:02:38,120
major energy facilities
and installations.

69
00:02:38,120 --> 00:02:41,869
And they threw their
special process do have

70
00:02:41,869 --> 00:02:44,300
procedures to take into

71
00:02:44,300 --> 00:02:45,350
account to the
extent that they're

72
00:02:45,350 --> 00:02:46,700
legally authorized,

73
00:02:46,700 --> 00:02:49,220
land-use considerations
and include

74
00:02:49,220 --> 00:02:51,904
some dressing the goals
when appropriate.

75
00:02:51,904 --> 00:02:53,210
We don't really have

76
00:02:53,210 --> 00:02:54,740
any questions
or comments or

77
00:02:54,740 --> 00:02:57,739
objections from
our notice.

78
00:02:57,739 --> 00:02:59,450
And maybe we'd like

79
00:02:59,450 --> 00:03:01,639
to have Mike or
Walter speak.

80
00:03:01,639 --> 00:03:03,330
Here.

81
00:03:05,920 --> 00:03:15,890
We recommend
certification. Thank you.

82
00:03:15,890 --> 00:03:17,554
Mr. Chairman, members
of the commission,

83
00:03:17,554 --> 00:03:18,890
I might grainy,
Deputy Director

84
00:03:18,890 --> 00:03:19,939
of the Department
of Energy,

85
00:03:19,939 --> 00:03:21,334
and with me is
Walter Perry

86
00:03:21,334 --> 00:03:22,969
or Assistant
Attorney General,

87
00:03:22,969 --> 00:03:25,414
just wanted to make
a few remarks.

88
00:03:25,414 --> 00:03:27,320
Really the address what's

89
00:03:27,320 --> 00:03:29,824
not in the
agreement because

90
00:03:29,824 --> 00:03:32,000
of I wanted to
emphasize today

91
00:03:32,000 --> 00:03:33,380
how important the
Department of

92
00:03:33,380 --> 00:03:35,180
Energy and the
energy facilities,

93
00:03:35,180 --> 00:03:38,479
citing council feel
about land use planning,

94
00:03:38,479 --> 00:03:40,160
were very supportive of

95
00:03:40,160 --> 00:03:42,589
the process and
of your efforts?

96
00:03:42,589 --> 00:03:49,085
The department under
Lynn Frank in 1983,

97
00:03:49,085 --> 00:03:49,670
head one of

98
00:03:49,670 --> 00:03:51,289
the earliest
coordination agreements

99
00:03:51,289 --> 00:03:52,880
and it was one that we
were very proud of.

100
00:03:52,880 --> 00:03:54,560
It was a very
comprehensive one.

101
00:03:54,560 --> 00:03:57,620
We've also worked with
your staff when a

102
00:03:57,620 --> 00:03:59,180
number of key issues

103
00:03:59,180 --> 00:04:01,519
such as ocean
resource planning,

104
00:04:01,519 --> 00:04:04,955
geographic information
mapping work.

105
00:04:04,955 --> 00:04:07,759
And we've, we've provided

106
00:04:07,759 --> 00:04:10,460
in all of our
programs that

107
00:04:10,460 --> 00:04:14,060
provide incentives for
energy conservation,

108
00:04:14,060 --> 00:04:15,455
renewable resources,

109
00:04:15,455 --> 00:04:18,799
or requirement that before

110
00:04:18,799 --> 00:04:21,215
those incentives
are provided,

111
00:04:21,215 --> 00:04:23,269
that the applicant
must comply

112
00:04:23,269 --> 00:04:25,609
with and prove that it's

113
00:04:25,609 --> 00:04:27,590
received all local

114
00:04:27,590 --> 00:04:29,899
and state permits
requirement

115
00:04:29,899 --> 00:04:30,469
that we've had for

116
00:04:30,469 --> 00:04:32,030
a long time and
that in fact,

117
00:04:32,030 --> 00:04:34,325
we encouraged
other agencies,

118
00:04:34,325 --> 00:04:36,679
such as the PUC
to adopt in

119
00:04:36,679 --> 00:04:39,449
their own rules which
they did as well.

120
00:04:39,850 --> 00:04:42,349
I think it's
important also to

121
00:04:42,349 --> 00:04:45,515
emphasize that
looking ahead,

122
00:04:45,515 --> 00:04:48,140
we see the role of

123
00:04:48,140 --> 00:04:50,060
land-use planning as being

124
00:04:50,060 --> 00:04:51,350
critical to a successful

125
00:04:51,350 --> 00:04:53,030
energy policy
in the future.

126
00:04:53,030 --> 00:04:55,564
I provided with you
today copies of

127
00:04:55,564 --> 00:04:59,359
our energy plan that
we do every two years.

128
00:04:59,359 --> 00:05:01,069
It gives an assessment of

129
00:05:01,069 --> 00:05:03,650
the long-range needs and

130
00:05:03,650 --> 00:05:05,525
energy resources
at the state.

131
00:05:05,525 --> 00:05:07,370
And one of the issues
in there that we

132
00:05:07,370 --> 00:05:09,575
highlight in our
two-year action plan

133
00:05:09,575 --> 00:05:11,614
is the need to

134
00:05:11,614 --> 00:05:14,869
integrate transportation
planning,

135
00:05:14,869 --> 00:05:16,910
land-use planning with

136
00:05:16,910 --> 00:05:18,499
environmental
considerations

137
00:05:18,499 --> 00:05:20,179
and with energy
considerations.

138
00:05:20,179 --> 00:05:22,814
Because we think land use.

139
00:05:22,814 --> 00:05:24,864
And transportation
drive energy,

140
00:05:24,864 --> 00:05:26,169
not the other way around.

141
00:05:26,169 --> 00:05:28,614
And the decisions
you make,

142
00:05:28,614 --> 00:05:30,294
the work you're doing on

143
00:05:30,294 --> 00:05:31,885
transportation rules

144
00:05:31,885 --> 00:05:33,880
are very important
to having

145
00:05:33,880 --> 00:05:36,550
an effective
energy policy and

146
00:05:36,550 --> 00:05:38,469
having effective
energy use

147
00:05:38,469 --> 00:05:40,119
patterns in our state.

148
00:05:40,119 --> 00:05:42,925
This is a top priority of

149
00:05:42,925 --> 00:05:45,879
my director David A1's
were very anxious

150
00:05:45,879 --> 00:05:49,090
to work with the commission
as you deal with

151
00:05:49,090 --> 00:05:51,069
those issues and we

152
00:05:51,069 --> 00:05:52,734
want to support you
any way we can.

153
00:05:52,734 --> 00:05:57,129
So our agreement that

154
00:05:57,129 --> 00:05:58,150
we have before
you today is

155
00:05:58,150 --> 00:05:59,485
really just the tip
of the iceberg,

156
00:05:59,485 --> 00:06:01,240
I guess, in terms
of what I view as

157
00:06:01,240 --> 00:06:03,595
our relationship and
our responsibilities,

158
00:06:03,595 --> 00:06:05,414
it covers the legal
requirements.

159
00:06:05,414 --> 00:06:09,709
But we see your
mission as being very,

160
00:06:09,709 --> 00:06:10,729
very important and we're

161
00:06:10,729 --> 00:06:12,334
very supportive of it.

162
00:06:12,334 --> 00:06:15,274
We want to help
any way we can.

163
00:06:15,274 --> 00:06:17,840
I'd be happy to go

164
00:06:17,840 --> 00:06:19,459
into detail if there's
any questions about

165
00:06:19,459 --> 00:06:24,140
the agreement and
determine any questions.

166
00:06:24,140 --> 00:06:25,234
Mr. Chairman?

167
00:06:25,234 --> 00:06:28,580
Yeah, I might
comment a little.

168
00:06:28,580 --> 00:06:32,210
And then as much as I'm
on the commissions,

169
00:06:32,210 --> 00:06:33,799
energy facility,
not energy

170
00:06:33,799 --> 00:06:35,000
facilities, I
didn't counsel,

171
00:06:35,000 --> 00:06:38,615
but the major facility
siting Council,

172
00:06:38,615 --> 00:06:40,130
which the energy is

173
00:06:40,130 --> 00:06:41,359
the one thing that
is cranked up

174
00:06:41,359 --> 00:06:42,680
and actually operate
in of course,

175
00:06:42,680 --> 00:06:44,899
d shell that was on
that is a member of

176
00:06:44,899 --> 00:06:46,130
this group with which I'm

177
00:06:46,130 --> 00:06:48,229
working on the consulting.

178
00:06:48,229 --> 00:06:50,210
But if you go in

179
00:06:50,210 --> 00:06:52,294
just a little bit
to explain how

180
00:06:52,294 --> 00:06:55,940
that process dovetails
in with our process.

181
00:06:55,940 --> 00:06:58,474
Now, I think
it'd be helpful.

182
00:06:58,474 --> 00:07:00,860
The energy
facilities citing

183
00:07:00,860 --> 00:07:02,465
council process was

184
00:07:02,465 --> 00:07:05,119
established as a one-stop,

185
00:07:05,119 --> 00:07:06,409
centralized permitting

186
00:07:06,409 --> 00:07:08,075
process under state law,

187
00:07:08,075 --> 00:07:10,700
so that the
sighting council

188
00:07:10,700 --> 00:07:13,220
is responsible
for assuring,

189
00:07:13,220 --> 00:07:16,024
Coordination and
involvement of

190
00:07:16,024 --> 00:07:20,105
all appropriate state
and local agencies.

191
00:07:20,105 --> 00:07:23,029
Moreover, the
site and counsel

192
00:07:23,029 --> 00:07:25,820
must make a
determination of

193
00:07:25,820 --> 00:07:29,825
compliance with
the land-use goals

194
00:07:29,825 --> 00:07:33,349
and establishes for
each energy facility,

195
00:07:33,349 --> 00:07:36,379
a committee comprised of

196
00:07:36,379 --> 00:07:38,344
the local government
officials

197
00:07:38,344 --> 00:07:39,830
in the area that
would be affected

198
00:07:39,830 --> 00:07:41,075
by that energy facility.

199
00:07:41,075 --> 00:07:44,689
And the findings of

200
00:07:44,689 --> 00:07:46,520
that committee
then are used by

201
00:07:46,520 --> 00:07:47,750
the sighting
Council in making

202
00:07:47,750 --> 00:07:49,384
these determinations.

203
00:07:49,384 --> 00:07:53,869
Are citing, council
also has timelines for

204
00:07:53,869 --> 00:07:55,190
each type of
energy facilities

205
00:07:55,190 --> 00:07:55,729
that are written into

206
00:07:55,729 --> 00:07:58,220
statute in which it
must make a decision.

207
00:07:58,220 --> 00:07:59,959
And then there are

208
00:07:59,959 --> 00:08:02,239
in the event there
are appeals to court,

209
00:08:02,239 --> 00:08:05,029
there's an expedited
review process,

210
00:08:05,029 --> 00:08:07,520
a directory view to
the Supreme Court.

211
00:08:07,520 --> 00:08:09,709
So all in all,

212
00:08:09,709 --> 00:08:12,784
it's been an effective
licensing process.

213
00:08:12,784 --> 00:08:16,370
And in fact, the
council has approved,

214
00:08:16,370 --> 00:08:17,750
although frequently with

215
00:08:17,750 --> 00:08:19,115
significant conditions,

216
00:08:19,115 --> 00:08:22,160
most of the applications
that has received,

217
00:08:22,160 --> 00:08:24,110
the one most
notable exception

218
00:08:24,110 --> 00:08:24,530
of one that was

219
00:08:24,530 --> 00:08:25,189
turned down was

220
00:08:25,189 --> 00:08:27,750
the pebble springs
nuclear plant.

221
00:08:32,290 --> 00:08:39,095
Other questions.
Is there a motion?

222
00:08:39,095 --> 00:08:41,239
I would move adoption is

223
00:08:41,239 --> 00:08:42,889
the coordination

224
00:08:42,889 --> 00:08:45,005
Programs Department
of Energy.

225
00:08:45,005 --> 00:08:49,789
Second discussion.
Wasn't favor Aye.

226
00:08:49,789 --> 00:08:50,629
Aye.

227
00:08:50,629 --> 00:08:54,949
Opposed. No. Staining.
It's unanimous.

228
00:08:54,949 --> 00:08:56,449
Thank you. Thank
you. Thank you.

229
00:08:56,449 --> 00:08:57,155
That's true.

230
00:08:57,155 --> 00:08:58,519
I've already got
one of these.

231
00:08:58,519 --> 00:09:00,559
If you want to waste

232
00:09:00,559 --> 00:09:03,540
any paper you can give
to somebody else.

233
00:09:06,520 --> 00:09:08,930
Then it, then
it comes back

234
00:09:08,930 --> 00:09:12,029
and approve the science.

235
00:09:12,610 --> 00:09:15,245
Why don't we
take up item 11?

236
00:09:15,245 --> 00:09:16,459
Can we take up item 11?

237
00:09:16,459 --> 00:09:17,764
Do we have staff here?

238
00:09:17,764 --> 00:09:22,439
We do. The same thing.

239
00:09:23,470 --> 00:09:29,255
A few reporting
approval of our 89, 90.

240
00:09:29,255 --> 00:09:32,010
You have few
Forrester report.

241
00:09:33,640 --> 00:09:36,569
Craig into that. Okay.

242
00:09:47,110 --> 00:09:49,399
Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

243
00:09:49,399 --> 00:09:50,240
Craig Greenleaf,

244
00:09:50,240 --> 00:09:52,625
Deputy Director for
the department.

245
00:09:52,625 --> 00:09:55,370
We have this report

246
00:09:55,370 --> 00:09:57,920
made a number
of revisions to

247
00:09:57,920 --> 00:10:00,679
the way in which
we've conveyed

248
00:10:00,679 --> 00:10:04,489
the data about farm
enforce decisions.

249
00:10:04,489 --> 00:10:06,290
This represents the
very first time

250
00:10:06,290 --> 00:10:07,555
that we have in fact,

251
00:10:07,555 --> 00:10:11,105
had a complete report
with respect to forest.

252
00:10:11,105 --> 00:10:13,309
Land is decision-making.

253
00:10:13,309 --> 00:10:15,709
At the time that we mailed

254
00:10:15,709 --> 00:10:17,779
you the commission books,

255
00:10:17,779 --> 00:10:20,645
we still had not
received comments from

256
00:10:20,645 --> 00:10:23,060
those local
governments who

257
00:10:23,060 --> 00:10:23,870
are concerned about

258
00:10:23,870 --> 00:10:24,979
the contents
of the report.

259
00:10:24,979 --> 00:10:26,465
And since that time we've

260
00:10:26,465 --> 00:10:29,209
We've had received
initial comments.

261
00:10:29,209 --> 00:10:31,700
Those we receive comments
from Lane County,

262
00:10:31,700 --> 00:10:34,220
Polk County, Hood
River counties,

263
00:10:34,220 --> 00:10:36,140
and we had some
telephone contacts are

264
00:10:36,140 --> 00:10:37,880
Benton County
over the contents

265
00:10:37,880 --> 00:10:40,139
of this particular report.

266
00:10:41,800 --> 00:10:45,244
We have made a number
of suggestions.

267
00:10:45,244 --> 00:10:47,224
These were provided in

268
00:10:47,224 --> 00:10:48,470
the yellow hand carry

269
00:10:48,470 --> 00:10:50,629
packet that we
provided to you.

270
00:10:50,629 --> 00:10:52,280
We wanted to
make it clear in

271
00:10:52,280 --> 00:10:53,510
the report first of all,

272
00:10:53,510 --> 00:10:56,510
that the new
forest skull and

273
00:10:56,510 --> 00:10:58,880
rule has not yet been

274
00:10:58,880 --> 00:11:00,125
reflected in the local

275
00:11:00,125 --> 00:11:01,759
government
decision-making.

276
00:11:01,759 --> 00:11:02,719
Associated with

277
00:11:02,719 --> 00:11:05,250
this particular
reporting period.

278
00:11:05,710 --> 00:11:09,169
We are encouraging people

279
00:11:09,169 --> 00:11:10,820
to understand that there

280
00:11:10,820 --> 00:11:13,010
are land use
decisions that

281
00:11:13,010 --> 00:11:14,390
occur in some cases

282
00:11:14,390 --> 00:11:17,075
on relatively
large parcels,

283
00:11:17,075 --> 00:11:19,744
which we are trying to

284
00:11:19,744 --> 00:11:22,849
convey that those
kinds of uses

285
00:11:22,849 --> 00:11:26,375
are happening in a
way that we know

286
00:11:26,375 --> 00:11:28,069
the amount of
land area that's

287
00:11:28,069 --> 00:11:30,485
taken out from production.

288
00:11:30,485 --> 00:11:31,969
But in some cases it's

289
00:11:31,969 --> 00:11:33,800
difficult to report e.g.

290
00:11:33,800 --> 00:11:36,899
on a query that may only
consume a portion of

291
00:11:36,899 --> 00:11:38,929
his attacks lot
but gets reported

292
00:11:38,929 --> 00:11:42,245
as part of a 600
acre parcel, e.g.

293
00:11:42,245 --> 00:11:44,780
but we do suggest

294
00:11:44,780 --> 00:11:45,920
that we add some

295
00:11:45,920 --> 00:11:47,300
additional information
in so that

296
00:11:47,300 --> 00:11:48,710
we can continue to

297
00:11:48,710 --> 00:11:50,360
evaluate those land use

298
00:11:50,360 --> 00:11:51,770
decisions that
are other than

299
00:11:51,770 --> 00:11:53,660
farming for us dwellings

300
00:11:53,660 --> 00:11:55,370
and the land divisions

301
00:11:55,370 --> 00:11:57,695
associated with
those dwellings.

302
00:11:57,695 --> 00:12:00,050
We have included and

303
00:12:00,050 --> 00:12:01,519
will continue to
include after

304
00:12:01,519 --> 00:12:03,485
this reporting
period information

305
00:12:03,485 --> 00:12:06,500
on expansions of urban
growth boundary so

306
00:12:06,500 --> 00:12:07,609
that we can begin getting

307
00:12:07,609 --> 00:12:09,289
a more complete picture of

308
00:12:09,289 --> 00:12:11,000
the whole range of

309
00:12:11,000 --> 00:12:12,499
land use activities
that are occurring

310
00:12:12,499 --> 00:12:15,049
relative to farm
in forest lands.

311
00:12:15,049 --> 00:12:17,089
And we have included

312
00:12:17,089 --> 00:12:20,209
some data from the
Agricultural Census.

313
00:12:20,209 --> 00:12:22,700
And we will
continue to work

314
00:12:22,700 --> 00:12:25,220
on capturing that data,

315
00:12:25,220 --> 00:12:26,809
which is relevant to

316
00:12:26,809 --> 00:12:28,670
the time period that

317
00:12:28,670 --> 00:12:29,570
we're talking about for

318
00:12:29,570 --> 00:12:31,145
each of these reports.

319
00:12:31,145 --> 00:12:33,530
It is difficult
to get because

320
00:12:33,530 --> 00:12:35,540
of the timing of
these reports and

321
00:12:35,540 --> 00:12:37,729
the relative
infrequency of some of

322
00:12:37,729 --> 00:12:39,980
the census data
collection to get

323
00:12:39,980 --> 00:12:45,829
exact correlation between
the two databases.

324
00:12:45,829 --> 00:12:47,479
But we nonetheless
think it's important

325
00:12:47,479 --> 00:12:50,159
to try and keep
working at that issue.

326
00:12:51,220 --> 00:12:54,200
We are using this report

327
00:12:54,200 --> 00:12:56,780
to help us analyze
at the time of

328
00:12:56,780 --> 00:12:59,450
periodic review
the actions

329
00:12:59,450 --> 00:13:02,269
that various jurisdictions
have been taking.

330
00:13:02,269 --> 00:13:04,699
We also, from time-to-time

331
00:13:04,699 --> 00:13:06,319
or use the
information gathered

332
00:13:06,319 --> 00:13:08,120
from this data collection

333
00:13:08,120 --> 00:13:11,450
to work with county
on various kinds of

334
00:13:11,450 --> 00:13:14,824
enforcement
issues which are

335
00:13:14,824 --> 00:13:17,570
there where are made

336
00:13:17,570 --> 00:13:19,865
evident by the
reporting process.

337
00:13:19,865 --> 00:13:23,750
And we also use
this, of course,

338
00:13:23,750 --> 00:13:24,859
in the data collection

339
00:13:24,859 --> 00:13:25,939
that we have
associated with

340
00:13:25,939 --> 00:13:27,469
the pharmacophore a study

341
00:13:27,469 --> 00:13:29,840
as part of a more
broad scale and

342
00:13:29,840 --> 00:13:32,104
overall evaluation
of the protections

343
00:13:32,104 --> 00:13:34,699
associated with
pharma forest lands.

344
00:13:34,699 --> 00:13:36,965
We are recommending
that you

345
00:13:36,965 --> 00:13:38,179
convey this report to

346
00:13:38,179 --> 00:13:39,680
the legislative assembly.

347
00:13:39,680 --> 00:13:42,769
And that's the only action

348
00:13:42,769 --> 00:13:45,509
that we're asking
you to take today.

349
00:13:47,170 --> 00:13:50,179
The only other thing I'd
add is that there is

350
00:13:50,179 --> 00:13:53,195
a draft memo to
the legislature

351
00:13:53,195 --> 00:13:58,100
from you in the the
most recent package

352
00:13:58,100 --> 00:13:59,930
of information we
gave you on this.

353
00:13:59,930 --> 00:14:02,180
And so we might want to,

354
00:14:02,180 --> 00:14:03,710
if you haven't already
take a look at

355
00:14:03,710 --> 00:14:05,389
that and see if
that conveys

356
00:14:05,389 --> 00:14:07,400
what you do want to
convey to the legislature

357
00:14:07,400 --> 00:14:10,069
and your folders and

358
00:14:10,069 --> 00:14:11,270
the wife was in

359
00:14:11,270 --> 00:14:16,559
the yellow folder
under alignment.

360
00:14:18,070 --> 00:14:20,750
One question I would ask

361
00:14:20,750 --> 00:14:23,579
as far as I'm reading
that letter is whether

362
00:14:26,410 --> 00:14:29,420
I have some concern
that the report

363
00:14:29,420 --> 00:14:31,445
shows that there
are some counties

364
00:14:31,445 --> 00:14:33,590
that have the
appear to be having

365
00:14:33,590 --> 00:14:36,605
significant problems
figuring out

366
00:14:36,605 --> 00:14:41,104
what the law is and

367
00:14:41,104 --> 00:14:42,769
that perhaps it
would be out of

368
00:14:42,769 --> 00:14:44,180
the Commission
on to ask staff

369
00:14:44,180 --> 00:14:46,760
to do some work to
focus on those and then

370
00:14:46,760 --> 00:14:49,400
come back with a
recommendation

371
00:14:49,400 --> 00:14:50,390
as to whether
we need to move

372
00:14:50,390 --> 00:14:53,390
to enforcement order there

373
00:14:53,390 --> 00:14:54,499
or whether it's
some other kind of

374
00:14:54,499 --> 00:14:55,879
negotiated settlement

375
00:14:55,879 --> 00:14:58,640
might bring about change.

376
00:14:58,640 --> 00:14:59,810
And I think we've
already done

377
00:14:59,810 --> 00:15:00,830
that with Jackson County.

378
00:15:00,830 --> 00:15:01,699
I think we negotiated

379
00:15:01,699 --> 00:15:03,035
something yesterday
that we think

380
00:15:03,035 --> 00:15:05,569
will result in
good efforts,

381
00:15:05,569 --> 00:15:06,589
but there are

382
00:15:06,589 --> 00:15:07,670
at least two
other counties

383
00:15:07,670 --> 00:15:08,390
that I noticed that

384
00:15:08,390 --> 00:15:09,889
our concern me one

385
00:15:09,889 --> 00:15:11,915
is Jamil, ones
clock amiss.

386
00:15:11,915 --> 00:15:14,329
And I wonder if

387
00:15:14,329 --> 00:15:16,639
we might not want
to indicate in

388
00:15:16,639 --> 00:15:21,020
a letter to letter
to the legislature.

389
00:15:21,020 --> 00:15:21,709
I don't I don't
know whether

390
00:15:21,709 --> 00:15:22,580
that's appropriate or not

391
00:15:22,580 --> 00:15:24,319
to say that we noticed

392
00:15:24,319 --> 00:15:26,089
these three in particular
and we're going

393
00:15:26,089 --> 00:15:28,640
to take a closer
look at them.

394
00:15:28,640 --> 00:15:30,140
I don't know.

395
00:15:30,140 --> 00:15:31,430
Or maybe we
just want to do

396
00:15:31,430 --> 00:15:32,659
that apart from
the letter.

397
00:15:32,659 --> 00:15:34,730
I think that it's

398
00:15:34,730 --> 00:15:35,899
clearly appropriate
for you to

399
00:15:35,899 --> 00:15:37,459
give direction to staff,

400
00:15:37,459 --> 00:15:40,880
to spend more time with

401
00:15:40,880 --> 00:15:42,679
those particular
counties and to report

402
00:15:42,679 --> 00:15:45,035
back to you on efforts
that we're making.

403
00:15:45,035 --> 00:15:49,190
And what if there
continued to be problems

404
00:15:49,190 --> 00:15:50,930
then to bring that
to your attention

405
00:15:50,930 --> 00:15:51,980
and allow you to

406
00:15:51,980 --> 00:15:54,659
consider some
further action.

407
00:15:55,270 --> 00:15:57,259
I have mixed feelings

408
00:15:57,259 --> 00:15:58,190
about whether you put it

409
00:15:58,190 --> 00:16:00,830
in the memo to the
legislature, just that.

410
00:16:00,830 --> 00:16:04,609
You might have some
particular feedback

411
00:16:04,609 --> 00:16:04,789
from

412
00:16:04,789 --> 00:16:06,680
certain legislators
that might be negative.

413
00:16:06,680 --> 00:16:08,849
I don't know, maybe
that's not a problem.

414
00:16:10,180 --> 00:16:12,289
But I do think I do

415
00:16:12,289 --> 00:16:14,149
think I agree that
you should be giving

416
00:16:14,149 --> 00:16:15,829
us direction to
especially look at

417
00:16:15,829 --> 00:16:17,765
those two additional
counties in it.

418
00:16:17,765 --> 00:16:19,744
Besides Jackson.

419
00:16:19,744 --> 00:16:22,939
We must have some
comments on that,

420
00:16:22,939 --> 00:16:24,380
particularly I I'm sure

421
00:16:24,380 --> 00:16:25,670
that the staff has
already aware of that

422
00:16:25,670 --> 00:16:27,575
I've been very interested
in the relationship

423
00:16:27,575 --> 00:16:30,469
of where these dwellings,

424
00:16:30,469 --> 00:16:32,300
particularly in the EFQM,

425
00:16:32,300 --> 00:16:33,575
the foreigner
in the forest

426
00:16:33,575 --> 00:16:34,880
are being located.

427
00:16:34,880 --> 00:16:36,140
We have on page 14,

428
00:16:36,140 --> 00:16:37,940
we have this zoning table,

429
00:16:37,940 --> 00:16:40,594
but it gets very

430
00:16:40,594 --> 00:16:42,590
inadequate to
my estimation

431
00:16:42,590 --> 00:16:44,239
because it doesn't
all the counties.

432
00:16:44,239 --> 00:16:45,920
And I'm sure if this
goes to the legislature,

433
00:16:45,920 --> 00:16:49,775
each legislator is going
to look in his area.

434
00:16:49,775 --> 00:16:51,815
And I would like to
have them be aware

435
00:16:51,815 --> 00:16:54,140
that we have this
kind of data

436
00:16:54,140 --> 00:16:56,165
and have it also
for the poorest or

437
00:16:56,165 --> 00:16:58,745
has that been sorted
out at this point?

438
00:16:58,745 --> 00:17:00,110
Or does this include that

439
00:17:00,110 --> 00:17:02,449
perhaps what you have
for the poor counties?

440
00:17:02,449 --> 00:17:04,639
But I would like to stay

441
00:17:04,639 --> 00:17:05,870
on the tabulation

442
00:17:05,870 --> 00:17:07,309
here that's
readily apparent.

443
00:17:07,309 --> 00:17:08,810
That gives us

444
00:17:08,810 --> 00:17:10,430
relationship for
all the counties,

445
00:17:10,430 --> 00:17:12,830
not just the that

446
00:17:12,830 --> 00:17:14,255
particular county
is doing fine.

447
00:17:14,255 --> 00:17:14,660
Great.

448
00:17:14,660 --> 00:17:17,300
But obviously we have
a lot more problems in

449
00:17:17,300 --> 00:17:18,649
certain zones

450
00:17:18,649 --> 00:17:21,125
within some counties
than we do and others.

451
00:17:21,125 --> 00:17:23,179
And I think that this
should be a part of

452
00:17:23,179 --> 00:17:24,229
the debate that we have

453
00:17:24,229 --> 00:17:25,805
when we're discussing
secondary.

454
00:17:25,805 --> 00:17:27,589
How much of this
kind of land is

455
00:17:27,589 --> 00:17:29,030
going to come out
as secondary,

456
00:17:29,030 --> 00:17:31,130
I think is important.

457
00:17:31,130 --> 00:17:33,619
Commissioner
Macpherson, we do

458
00:17:33,619 --> 00:17:35,750
have a report the

459
00:17:35,750 --> 00:17:39,409
following table or yes.

460
00:17:39,409 --> 00:17:41,374
Table N, which is,

461
00:17:41,374 --> 00:17:42,680
it's actually
turns the other

462
00:17:42,680 --> 00:17:44,825
direction on the page,

463
00:17:44,825 --> 00:17:49,070
which does indicate
the kinds of

464
00:17:49,070 --> 00:17:50,900
actions which
counties are taking

465
00:17:50,900 --> 00:17:52,834
it are listed by zone.

466
00:17:52,834 --> 00:17:56,759
It's page 814.

467
00:17:56,830 --> 00:18:00,904
Right after April
pay 14, right.

468
00:18:00,904 --> 00:18:03,545
Well, I'm looking I'm 19.

469
00:18:03,545 --> 00:18:05,015
It's the one
that's correct.

470
00:18:05,015 --> 00:18:08,699
Table and it's labeled b1.

471
00:18:12,420 --> 00:18:17,379
Actually runs
the node B or D,

472
00:18:17,379 --> 00:18:19,630
B as in B.

473
00:18:19,630 --> 00:18:23,110
And it runs this direction

474
00:18:23,110 --> 00:18:25,885
on the page to help
you to find that.

475
00:18:25,885 --> 00:18:30,310
But it's it's it's

476
00:18:30,310 --> 00:18:33,410
before you get to
the Forrest report.

477
00:18:35,790 --> 00:18:38,259
So it's sandwiched
there is

478
00:18:38,259 --> 00:18:41,349
the last attachment
on the next to

479
00:18:41,349 --> 00:18:50,335
last attachment to the
farm reporting back.

480
00:18:50,335 --> 00:18:52,930
Why is n before
GO because it's

481
00:18:52,930 --> 00:18:56,890
formed maybe is a
better way of going up.

482
00:18:56,890 --> 00:19:07,879
Sorry. No, I said Why?

483
00:19:23,010 --> 00:19:31,789
She actually
district section.

484
00:19:33,730 --> 00:19:36,319
What fears of the
information is here.

485
00:19:36,319 --> 00:19:37,879
It's just so buried.

486
00:19:37,879 --> 00:19:41,194
Going to legislators
find that regular.

487
00:19:41,194 --> 00:19:43,279
Assume that probably
this put it

488
00:19:43,279 --> 00:19:45,439
over already to
the point it

489
00:19:45,439 --> 00:19:47,270
can't be altered
to make it more

490
00:19:47,270 --> 00:19:49,564
expensive for,
isn't we can,

491
00:19:49,564 --> 00:19:52,340
we can try and select out

492
00:19:52,340 --> 00:19:55,820
that particular table
and put it together and

493
00:19:55,820 --> 00:19:57,799
with a different
configuration

494
00:19:57,799 --> 00:19:58,880
so that it is
a little more

495
00:19:58,880 --> 00:20:00,410
accessible so that we

496
00:20:00,410 --> 00:20:03,064
can report actions
by counties.

497
00:20:03,064 --> 00:20:05,569
It is. This is a piece of

498
00:20:05,569 --> 00:20:09,779
information that has
been very important.

499
00:20:10,090 --> 00:20:13,849
Counties have found
it important to

500
00:20:13,849 --> 00:20:17,560
the way in which there
actions are occurring.

501
00:20:17,560 --> 00:20:19,930
They have typically
appeared before you and

502
00:20:19,930 --> 00:20:23,379
explain that some
of there in quotes,

503
00:20:23,379 --> 00:20:25,630
secondary zones
within the county

504
00:20:25,630 --> 00:20:27,354
are the areas in which

505
00:20:27,354 --> 00:20:29,469
most of these actions
are occurring and that

506
00:20:29,469 --> 00:20:31,869
the larger
minimum lot size,

507
00:20:31,869 --> 00:20:34,269
the more commercial
zoning districts

508
00:20:34,269 --> 00:20:36,070
that they have
applied in the county

509
00:20:36,070 --> 00:20:38,424
have much less frequency

510
00:20:38,424 --> 00:20:40,734
of land use decisions.

511
00:20:40,734 --> 00:20:42,955
So that it is

512
00:20:42,955 --> 00:20:45,340
an issue that is of
some significance

513
00:20:45,340 --> 00:20:47,500
and we can use a
different format

514
00:20:47,500 --> 00:20:48,549
for reporting this data

515
00:20:48,549 --> 00:20:50,320
if it would be helpful.

516
00:20:50,320 --> 00:20:52,449
I'm still not reading
it to give me

517
00:20:52,449 --> 00:20:55,600
the new farm
forest inherits

518
00:20:55,600 --> 00:20:58,789
this this particular
table is only deals with

519
00:20:58,789 --> 00:21:02,614
the farm use actions.

520
00:21:02,614 --> 00:21:04,370
I believe we have

521
00:21:04,370 --> 00:21:06,980
a similar table in

522
00:21:06,980 --> 00:21:08,930
the back of the
forests report that

523
00:21:08,930 --> 00:21:12,469
also does land-use actions

524
00:21:12,469 --> 00:21:16,805
by by zoning district?

525
00:21:16,805 --> 00:21:17,990
Yes.

526
00:21:17,990 --> 00:21:19,685
It's right after.

527
00:21:19,685 --> 00:21:23,210
In fact, that is
relative to Lynn county.

528
00:21:23,210 --> 00:21:24,799
That is where the

529
00:21:24,799 --> 00:21:27,739
the farm forest
zoning actions

530
00:21:27,739 --> 00:21:31,589
are reported within
that forest table.

531
00:21:32,290 --> 00:21:34,880
In the next to
the last table

532
00:21:34,880 --> 00:21:37,290
under that particular tab.

533
00:21:39,610 --> 00:21:43,380
What you see is for land,

534
00:21:44,050 --> 00:21:46,414
it's got the F F is known.

535
00:21:46,414 --> 00:21:49,289
Is that that's correct.

536
00:21:51,310 --> 00:21:54,005
I'm aware that
Bloom County is

537
00:21:54,005 --> 00:21:56,450
reporting what used to
report on your hip,

538
00:21:56,450 --> 00:21:58,145
you're dividing the Dewan

539
00:21:58,145 --> 00:22:00,560
and Mexico much
further down the list.

540
00:22:00,560 --> 00:22:02,330
Right. But they also
were doing, I think,

541
00:22:02,330 --> 00:22:03,290
a far better job than

542
00:22:03,290 --> 00:22:04,340
they had were a few years

543
00:22:04,340 --> 00:22:07,279
ago when they were near
the top of the list.

544
00:22:07,279 --> 00:22:10,439
If you call them.

545
00:22:12,940 --> 00:22:14,540
Do you need some help

546
00:22:14,540 --> 00:22:15,724
finding that
Hector, did you?

547
00:22:15,724 --> 00:22:17,760
No, I haven't. Okay.

548
00:22:22,510 --> 00:22:24,919
We have one piece
of testimony.

549
00:22:24,919 --> 00:22:26,119
If you wanted one person

550
00:22:26,119 --> 00:22:27,724
wanted to ask to testify,

551
00:22:27,724 --> 00:22:29,329
I would probably
I hear that.

552
00:22:29,329 --> 00:22:32,549
And then we continue
discussing the gym man.

553
00:22:40,870 --> 00:22:43,294
Commission members.

554
00:22:43,294 --> 00:22:45,289
Thank you for
this opportunity

555
00:22:45,289 --> 00:22:48,814
to speak on the
ESU report.

556
00:22:48,814 --> 00:22:52,354
And I'd like
to acknowledge

557
00:22:52,354 --> 00:22:56,884
the April 24th,
the LCD response.

558
00:22:56,884 --> 00:22:58,940
And we're pleased to note

559
00:22:58,940 --> 00:23:01,490
that many of the
changes that we've

560
00:23:01,490 --> 00:23:04,760
recommended for the
EF view reporting are

561
00:23:04,760 --> 00:23:08,539
going to be incorporated
into the report.

562
00:23:08,539 --> 00:23:10,685
But there are still

563
00:23:10,685 --> 00:23:12,829
a couple of changes
that we would like

564
00:23:12,829 --> 00:23:15,770
to comment on that
we think should be

565
00:23:15,770 --> 00:23:17,525
included in the report

566
00:23:17,525 --> 00:23:19,820
which are not included.

567
00:23:19,820 --> 00:23:24,845
And as a introduction
to that,

568
00:23:24,845 --> 00:23:26,660
I would like to explain in

569
00:23:26,660 --> 00:23:28,790
a little bit more
detail where

570
00:23:28,790 --> 00:23:31,175
Lane County is coming

571
00:23:31,175 --> 00:23:33,830
in our comments
on the report.

572
00:23:33,830 --> 00:23:35,750
I think that Lane County

573
00:23:35,750 --> 00:23:37,475
is probably unique from

574
00:23:37,475 --> 00:23:39,740
other counties and
the approaches

575
00:23:39,740 --> 00:23:41,179
that we've taken to r,

576
00:23:41,179 --> 00:23:44,000
e, f, u, and our
forest zones.

577
00:23:44,000 --> 00:23:47,959
We were acknowledged
back in 1984 and more

578
00:23:47,959 --> 00:23:52,249
recently For our
minimum parcel size

579
00:23:52,249 --> 00:23:53,825
and the EF zone,

580
00:23:53,825 --> 00:23:55,580
we are one of the marginal

581
00:23:55,580 --> 00:23:58,250
lands counties
in the state.

582
00:23:58,250 --> 00:24:01,550
And we're often referred
to as having taken

583
00:24:01,550 --> 00:24:04,370
a more restrictive
approach

584
00:24:04,370 --> 00:24:06,154
on our EF use zoning,

585
00:24:06,154 --> 00:24:09,305
but also in our EF zone,

586
00:24:09,305 --> 00:24:13,355
we have a specific
minimum parcel size

587
00:24:13,355 --> 00:24:16,579
and farm unit size.

588
00:24:16,579 --> 00:24:19,535
And for our forest zoning,

589
00:24:19,535 --> 00:24:21,695
we may be one of
the few counties

590
00:24:21,695 --> 00:24:23,855
in the state that has

591
00:24:23,855 --> 00:24:25,909
substantially adopted

592
00:24:25,909 --> 00:24:28,490
the new forest
rule standards

593
00:24:28,490 --> 00:24:29,675
into our zoning.

594
00:24:29,675 --> 00:24:33,274
And we have one
unique thing

595
00:24:33,274 --> 00:24:36,500
with our forest zoning
and Lane County,

596
00:24:36,500 --> 00:24:38,209
probably in the state.

597
00:24:38,209 --> 00:24:40,429
We're the only ones
that have taken

598
00:24:40,429 --> 00:24:42,724
the approach that for

599
00:24:42,724 --> 00:24:45,980
our industrial
forest lands and

600
00:24:45,980 --> 00:24:47,164
those lands that are

601
00:24:47,164 --> 00:24:49,879
predominantly in
public ownerships,

602
00:24:49,879 --> 00:24:53,615
we do not permit
dwellings on those lands.

603
00:24:53,615 --> 00:24:55,804
And that's a recognition

604
00:24:55,804 --> 00:24:58,189
that traditionally
that's the way

605
00:24:58,189 --> 00:25:00,320
those lands had
been manage

606
00:25:00,320 --> 00:25:01,819
that dwelling is not

607
00:25:01,819 --> 00:25:04,474
really needed for
those purposes.

608
00:25:04,474 --> 00:25:07,069
So we approach
the EF U and

609
00:25:07,069 --> 00:25:09,770
the forest port from

610
00:25:09,770 --> 00:25:11,870
our own experience and

611
00:25:11,870 --> 00:25:14,330
we make two
recommendations.

612
00:25:14,330 --> 00:25:17,870
The first recommendation
is that we

613
00:25:17,870 --> 00:25:22,114
believe the
report ought to

614
00:25:22,114 --> 00:25:26,029
do more analysis of

615
00:25:26,029 --> 00:25:28,564
the different
approaches that

616
00:25:28,564 --> 00:25:30,319
various counties are

617
00:25:30,319 --> 00:25:32,600
using throughout
the state.

618
00:25:32,600 --> 00:25:35,359
Because since
acknowledgment,

619
00:25:35,359 --> 00:25:38,645
there are a lot of
different standards.

620
00:25:38,645 --> 00:25:40,909
And when you look
at the numbers

621
00:25:40,909 --> 00:25:43,415
of approvals or denials,

622
00:25:43,415 --> 00:25:45,635
you do not get

623
00:25:45,635 --> 00:25:49,549
the perspective of where
those approvals are.

624
00:25:49,549 --> 00:25:51,229
Denials are coming from.

625
00:25:51,229 --> 00:25:52,879
If a county has

626
00:25:52,879 --> 00:25:56,719
a EF zone that was
adopted in AD2,

627
00:25:56,719 --> 00:25:59,389
they're going through
periodic review now

628
00:25:59,389 --> 00:26:02,000
and they haven't made
any changes to that.

629
00:26:02,000 --> 00:26:03,710
If they don't
have a minimum

630
00:26:03,710 --> 00:26:05,945
parcel size and they've

631
00:26:05,945 --> 00:26:08,480
issued so many approvals

632
00:26:08,480 --> 00:26:11,090
and you compare them
to laying county,

633
00:26:11,090 --> 00:26:13,145
then those things,

634
00:26:13,145 --> 00:26:16,400
those unique
differences are lost.

635
00:26:16,400 --> 00:26:18,410
And we think perhaps too,

636
00:26:18,410 --> 00:26:19,669
that you might learn

637
00:26:19,669 --> 00:26:22,250
something from looking
at the differences

638
00:26:22,250 --> 00:26:24,409
in the counties approaches

639
00:26:24,409 --> 00:26:27,950
to EF view and
farm decisions.

640
00:26:27,950 --> 00:26:29,570
If you looked
at whether they

641
00:26:29,570 --> 00:26:32,119
have performance
standards or

642
00:26:32,119 --> 00:26:33,545
whether they had

643
00:26:33,545 --> 00:26:37,114
specific minimum
parcel sizes.

644
00:26:37,114 --> 00:26:41,600
The second and I must
say add on that that

645
00:26:41,600 --> 00:26:45,259
the staff response was

646
00:26:45,259 --> 00:26:47,690
and we could probably
appreciate this,

647
00:26:47,690 --> 00:26:51,860
that they do not
have the staff right

648
00:26:51,860 --> 00:26:54,169
now to do that level

649
00:26:54,169 --> 00:26:56,975
of analysis for
this report.

650
00:26:56,975 --> 00:27:00,380
But that analysis is
done at the time of

651
00:27:00,380 --> 00:27:04,204
periodic review
or as a review,

652
00:27:04,204 --> 00:27:06,349
a number of decisions

653
00:27:06,349 --> 00:27:08,765
through what what
other means.

654
00:27:08,765 --> 00:27:10,909
And we acknowledged.

655
00:27:10,909 --> 00:27:13,715
That problem with
the staffing.

656
00:27:13,715 --> 00:27:15,814
But we do think
it would be

657
00:27:15,814 --> 00:27:17,600
a valuable level of

658
00:27:17,600 --> 00:27:20,690
analysis to include
in this report,

659
00:27:20,690 --> 00:27:23,405
staffing or not, it
should be in there.

660
00:27:23,405 --> 00:27:26,134
The other thing that
we've commented on

661
00:27:26,134 --> 00:27:29,810
is during this past
reporting period,

662
00:27:29,810 --> 00:27:32,540
we kept track of
the number of

663
00:27:32,540 --> 00:27:36,454
citizen inquiries for
farming forest uses.

664
00:27:36,454 --> 00:27:38,209
As you've seen, we

665
00:27:38,209 --> 00:27:40,940
base basically
indicated in

666
00:27:40,940 --> 00:27:42,589
our report that
we had maybe

667
00:27:42,589 --> 00:27:46,894
650 per farm and forest.

668
00:27:46,894 --> 00:27:49,745
Those were
predominantly for

669
00:27:49,745 --> 00:27:53,330
dwellings and our farm
and forest zones.

670
00:27:53,330 --> 00:27:55,100
And the result of

671
00:27:55,100 --> 00:27:57,814
those contacts
was primarily

672
00:27:57,814 --> 00:28:04,070
8.5% resulted in
applications.

673
00:28:04,070 --> 00:28:06,169
And what we
think the report

674
00:28:06,169 --> 00:28:07,580
needs to reflect.

675
00:28:07,580 --> 00:28:09,050
And I know other
counties have

676
00:28:09,050 --> 00:28:11,345
commented on this
in the past.

677
00:28:11,345 --> 00:28:14,630
Is it a substantial
portion of

678
00:28:14,630 --> 00:28:16,040
the county's efforts to

679
00:28:16,040 --> 00:28:19,969
comply with the farm
and forest mandates

680
00:28:19,969 --> 00:28:20,960
of the goals and

681
00:28:20,960 --> 00:28:23,870
our comprehensive
plans occurs

682
00:28:23,870 --> 00:28:26,959
not in the approval

683
00:28:26,959 --> 00:28:29,855
or the denial of
the applications,

684
00:28:29,855 --> 00:28:32,629
but it had it occurs at

685
00:28:32,629 --> 00:28:36,814
the front counter in
Roy Burns is made the

686
00:28:36,814 --> 00:28:39,619
point in this memo that

687
00:28:39,619 --> 00:28:42,710
the statistics
on approvals and

688
00:28:42,710 --> 00:28:46,054
denials are somewhat
meaningless.

689
00:28:46,054 --> 00:28:48,019
He went interpret that.

690
00:28:48,019 --> 00:28:50,675
If we had all approvals,

691
00:28:50,675 --> 00:28:51,920
we might be doing

692
00:28:51,920 --> 00:28:54,410
our job because if

693
00:28:54,410 --> 00:28:56,914
we were having
denials coming in,

694
00:28:56,914 --> 00:28:58,894
you might want to
interpret that.

695
00:28:58,894 --> 00:29:00,680
We were encouraging people

696
00:29:00,680 --> 00:29:02,330
to go through
the system that

697
00:29:02,330 --> 00:29:04,550
shouldn't even get in

698
00:29:04,550 --> 00:29:06,019
there in the first place.

699
00:29:06,019 --> 00:29:07,340
That's what you do with

700
00:29:07,340 --> 00:29:09,949
your front
counter contacts.

701
00:29:09,949 --> 00:29:12,049
That's where there
is substantial

702
00:29:12,049 --> 00:29:13,789
work occurs.

703
00:29:13,789 --> 00:29:15,845
It's the first contact.

704
00:29:15,845 --> 00:29:18,500
And so we'd like
to conclude

705
00:29:18,500 --> 00:29:21,155
by saying that in
future reports,

706
00:29:21,155 --> 00:29:23,959
we do think that
the shortcoming of

707
00:29:23,959 --> 00:29:26,599
the report yet is
it doesn't look

708
00:29:26,599 --> 00:29:28,580
at the unique differences

709
00:29:28,580 --> 00:29:30,920
between the counties
and it doesn't

710
00:29:30,920 --> 00:29:33,815
look at the things that

711
00:29:33,815 --> 00:29:35,570
occur at the
front counter and

712
00:29:35,570 --> 00:29:37,340
what occurs at the
front counter.

713
00:29:37,340 --> 00:29:39,140
We understand
if that's to be

714
00:29:39,140 --> 00:29:41,480
incorporated
into the report,

715
00:29:41,480 --> 00:29:42,904
it would appear to

716
00:29:42,904 --> 00:29:45,619
require an amendment
to the ORS,

717
00:29:45,619 --> 00:29:47,614
but we need to strive

718
00:29:47,614 --> 00:29:50,524
at improvements
in the report.

719
00:29:50,524 --> 00:29:52,565
Were in the report,
does it show

720
00:29:52,565 --> 00:29:56,220
the percentage of
applications approved?

721
00:29:57,040 --> 00:30:00,095
Oh, I'm we're
in our report,

722
00:30:00,095 --> 00:30:01,279
does it you're you're

723
00:30:01,279 --> 00:30:03,479
arguing that we shouldn't

724
00:30:04,420 --> 00:30:06,619
presentations in front of

725
00:30:06,619 --> 00:30:08,525
legislature abuse

726
00:30:08,525 --> 00:30:10,924
these percentage
approval. Yes.

727
00:30:10,924 --> 00:30:12,200
I'm not wearing
our report.

728
00:30:12,200 --> 00:30:13,565
Do we even
indicate what the

729
00:30:13,565 --> 00:30:15,574
percentage I
don't believe I

730
00:30:15,574 --> 00:30:20,255
said presentations abuse
these percentages.

731
00:30:20,255 --> 00:30:21,440
Your letter the percentage

732
00:30:21,440 --> 00:30:22,759
approval rate
is frequently

733
00:30:22,759 --> 00:30:26,045
abused and
legislators well,

734
00:30:26,045 --> 00:30:29,600
in the letter, it's
not necessarily.

735
00:30:29,600 --> 00:30:33,020
Where in your report
it said when you

736
00:30:33,020 --> 00:30:36,530
put the statistics
in a report format.

737
00:30:36,530 --> 00:30:39,244
And we're not
saying DLC D,

738
00:30:39,244 --> 00:30:40,670
where in our report do we

739
00:30:40,670 --> 00:30:43,679
show percentage
approval rates?

740
00:30:43,870 --> 00:30:46,460
Where would the
statistics?

741
00:30:46,460 --> 00:30:48,170
I think you showed

742
00:30:48,170 --> 00:30:50,449
denials and approval where

743
00:30:50,449 --> 00:30:51,754
I'm just absolutely
wearing.

744
00:30:51,754 --> 00:30:54,845
Just think Craig me.
What pages of algebra?

745
00:30:54,845 --> 00:30:57,900
It's in table a diploid.

746
00:31:06,280 --> 00:31:08,959
We don't have total
applications that are

747
00:31:08,959 --> 00:31:10,520
doing that

748
00:31:10,520 --> 00:31:12,164
doesn't show
applications, does it?

749
00:31:12,164 --> 00:31:13,609
It shows approvals and

750
00:31:13,609 --> 00:31:15,214
denial. That's
all it shows.

751
00:31:15,214 --> 00:31:23,000
Right? I'm joined here
by Lloyd Chapman,

752
00:31:23,000 --> 00:31:24,229
who is the author to this.

753
00:31:24,229 --> 00:31:25,309
And he can point you to

754
00:31:25,309 --> 00:31:26,689
the more specific
language in

755
00:31:26,689 --> 00:31:29,974
the report texts
where that occurs.

756
00:31:29,974 --> 00:31:33,889
We don't. For instance,

757
00:31:33,889 --> 00:31:34,999
thousand friends has often

758
00:31:34,999 --> 00:31:37,550
put an approval
percentage of

759
00:31:37,550 --> 00:31:39,439
88 or 90% approval
rights and we

760
00:31:39,439 --> 00:31:40,579
tend have not

761
00:31:40,579 --> 00:31:42,259
included that kind
of information.

762
00:31:42,259 --> 00:31:43,459
Each of the tables,

763
00:31:43,459 --> 00:31:46,790
the base tables have
number of denials in

764
00:31:46,790 --> 00:31:50,690
there and in the number
of applications.

765
00:31:50,690 --> 00:31:52,324
There, is there any
place that says

766
00:31:52,324 --> 00:31:53,405
number of applications,

767
00:31:53,405 --> 00:31:57,395
number of approvals,
number of denials? No.

768
00:31:57,395 --> 00:32:00,709
So we we never we don't

769
00:32:00,709 --> 00:32:03,890
see them if they are
not approved or denied,

770
00:32:03,890 --> 00:32:06,230
so we simply report
approved and denied.

771
00:32:06,230 --> 00:32:09,200
Do we do report?

772
00:32:09,200 --> 00:32:12,290
If you show number
of denials,

773
00:32:12,290 --> 00:32:16,219
then you can give

774
00:32:16,219 --> 00:32:19,565
me withdrawn too.
Yeah. That's true.

775
00:32:19,565 --> 00:32:19,835
Yeah.

776
00:32:19,835 --> 00:32:21,484
The person could start
along in the process.

777
00:32:21,484 --> 00:32:23,120
It's not gonna make
it and withdrawn.

778
00:32:23,120 --> 00:32:24,529
And so you wouldn't
know what the real

779
00:32:24,529 --> 00:32:26,165
total number of
applications.

780
00:32:26,165 --> 00:32:28,909
There is also
large numbers

781
00:32:28,909 --> 00:32:31,295
of cavities that do
not report denials.

782
00:32:31,295 --> 00:32:33,785
I mean, as part of
their reporting system,

783
00:32:33,785 --> 00:32:35,540
or they just simply
don't include

784
00:32:35,540 --> 00:32:37,999
that information at the
time that they file.

785
00:32:37,999 --> 00:32:40,535
Their information
with the department.

786
00:32:40,535 --> 00:32:43,129
Do any of the
counties actually

787
00:32:43,129 --> 00:32:45,620
report total
applications or

788
00:32:45,620 --> 00:32:47,120
total people that come to

789
00:32:47,120 --> 00:32:49,670
the counter seeking
information

790
00:32:49,670 --> 00:32:51,589
that may be turned away.

791
00:32:51,589 --> 00:32:53,359
I would say probably about

792
00:32:53,359 --> 00:32:54,980
even filling out
an application,

793
00:32:54,980 --> 00:32:56,840
probably one or
two counties

794
00:32:56,840 --> 00:32:58,370
a year report
in much the way

795
00:32:58,370 --> 00:33:00,080
that Lane County has.

796
00:33:00,080 --> 00:33:01,730
Maybe not in as
much detail,

797
00:33:01,730 --> 00:33:04,040
but tend to say We're
just like you to know,

798
00:33:04,040 --> 00:33:05,209
I know Douglas County,

799
00:33:05,209 --> 00:33:10,069
I think did it a year
or so ago saying we had

800
00:33:10,069 --> 00:33:11,779
45 pre application

801
00:33:11,779 --> 00:33:13,385
conferences which
resulted in

802
00:33:13,385 --> 00:33:15,769
12 applications or
some such thing

803
00:33:15,769 --> 00:33:18,169
to indicate that same
kind of information,

804
00:33:18,169 --> 00:33:21,830
but not in a regular way.

805
00:33:21,830 --> 00:33:23,419
Just to get back to

806
00:33:23,419 --> 00:33:24,649
one other point
that denial is,

807
00:33:24,649 --> 00:33:26,390
for instance, on under
farmed dwellings.

808
00:33:26,390 --> 00:33:28,175
On page four
of the report,

809
00:33:28,175 --> 00:33:30,859
the the last line
indicates that there

810
00:33:30,859 --> 00:33:31,970
were three to
farm and farm

811
00:33:31,970 --> 00:33:33,694
related dwellings
were denied.

812
00:33:33,694 --> 00:33:35,629
That's the type of
information that we

813
00:33:35,629 --> 00:33:38,609
provide in the text of
the report as well.

814
00:33:39,820 --> 00:33:41,660
But we don't really

815
00:33:41,660 --> 00:33:42,559
know if that's
how many were

816
00:33:42,559 --> 00:33:43,699
denied since a lot of

817
00:33:43,699 --> 00:33:44,914
counties don't
report tonight.

818
00:33:44,914 --> 00:33:49,129
That's how many
miles were reported.

819
00:33:49,129 --> 00:33:53,940
It's alright.
Well, excuse me.

820
00:33:54,100 --> 00:33:56,734
Chairman blas, or what
you're getting at

821
00:33:56,734 --> 00:33:59,629
is that we don't really

822
00:33:59,629 --> 00:34:02,030
know how many people
are turned away

823
00:34:02,030 --> 00:34:04,370
without having
filed because

824
00:34:04,370 --> 00:34:06,724
they were told
before they filed.

825
00:34:06,724 --> 00:34:09,964
There was a point that
I've just trying Yeah.

826
00:34:09,964 --> 00:34:12,680
I know and we need
the data was in here.

827
00:34:12,680 --> 00:34:14,239
I'm not trying to
argue, I'm just trying

828
00:34:14,239 --> 00:34:16,609
to explain the table
that showed that.

829
00:34:16,609 --> 00:34:19,610
It doesn't I just

830
00:34:19,610 --> 00:34:21,499
we need that
information. I'm sorry.

831
00:34:21,499 --> 00:34:23,524
Well, I just wanted
to point out that

832
00:34:23,524 --> 00:34:26,390
the point we make an
arm memo to you is

833
00:34:26,390 --> 00:34:29,330
that the statute
clearly requires

834
00:34:29,330 --> 00:34:31,129
us to report
certain things

835
00:34:31,129 --> 00:34:32,735
which we have reported.

836
00:34:32,735 --> 00:34:35,210
And we do have
some sentences in

837
00:34:35,210 --> 00:34:37,310
our introduction that talk

838
00:34:37,310 --> 00:34:38,959
a little bit
about this issue.

839
00:34:38,959 --> 00:34:40,760
And what we're
proposing to do

840
00:34:40,760 --> 00:34:43,039
here is to strengthen
that discussion.

841
00:34:43,039 --> 00:34:44,629
But beginning to
point out that

842
00:34:44,629 --> 00:34:46,310
this As I understand

843
00:34:46,310 --> 00:34:47,479
what Lloyds saying to you,

844
00:34:47,479 --> 00:34:49,609
to point out that
this that we

845
00:34:49,609 --> 00:34:52,249
do have situations
where there

846
00:34:52,249 --> 00:34:54,049
are applications
that really

847
00:34:54,049 --> 00:34:56,420
never become applications

848
00:34:56,420 --> 00:34:58,880
because the applicant is

849
00:34:58,880 --> 00:35:00,109
discouraged through a pre

850
00:35:00,109 --> 00:35:01,159
application conference.

851
00:35:01,159 --> 00:35:02,840
And I think we can
clearly do that in

852
00:35:02,840 --> 00:35:04,969
our introduction and
strengthen that.

853
00:35:04,969 --> 00:35:08,450
And it assists, I think,
Link counties point.

854
00:35:08,450 --> 00:35:10,414
But our point is that

855
00:35:10,414 --> 00:35:12,919
beyond that for this
reporting where we

856
00:35:12,919 --> 00:35:15,139
don't think we didn't

857
00:35:15,139 --> 00:35:17,299
we be difficult to

858
00:35:17,299 --> 00:35:18,380
go further because
we wouldn't you

859
00:35:18,380 --> 00:35:19,429
want on page four,

860
00:35:19,429 --> 00:35:20,719
just say where
you're safe.

861
00:35:20,719 --> 00:35:22,370
32 farm and Pharma,

862
00:35:22,370 --> 00:35:24,020
their dwellings
were denied.

863
00:35:24,020 --> 00:35:26,704
Once you want to say
someplace in there,

864
00:35:26,704 --> 00:35:28,520
we only receive reports

865
00:35:28,520 --> 00:35:30,500
on denials from
half the counties.

866
00:35:30,500 --> 00:35:32,720
So this may either

867
00:35:32,720 --> 00:35:35,990
maybe I don't want
accurate number

868
00:35:35,990 --> 00:35:41,285
of actual number of
denial or whatever.

869
00:35:41,285 --> 00:35:42,440
I don't have a number.

870
00:35:42,440 --> 00:35:43,880
I can't tell you
how many counties

871
00:35:43,880 --> 00:35:45,080
do not report denials.

872
00:35:45,080 --> 00:35:46,160
If they don't
report them, it

873
00:35:46,160 --> 00:35:47,390
may be because
there aren't any or

874
00:35:47,390 --> 00:35:48,034
it may be could be

875
00:35:48,034 --> 00:35:50,404
because they don't
report them.

876
00:35:50,404 --> 00:35:52,729
Maybe we got to say
that. You don't

877
00:35:52,729 --> 00:35:54,469
know whether counties
were accurately

878
00:35:54,469 --> 00:36:00,395
reporting denial.
All right.

879
00:36:00,395 --> 00:36:06,200
Well, I think I
feel that this is

880
00:36:06,200 --> 00:36:07,489
an important part and I

881
00:36:07,489 --> 00:36:09,140
think this is where
lean County is

882
00:36:09,140 --> 00:36:12,290
coming from because
if we print that,

883
00:36:12,290 --> 00:36:14,570
this is what's all
this happening

884
00:36:14,570 --> 00:36:16,309
without something to say,

885
00:36:16,309 --> 00:36:17,389
Well, we don't
know if this

886
00:36:17,389 --> 00:36:18,799
is an accurate number.

887
00:36:18,799 --> 00:36:21,890
These things can
be misconstrued.

888
00:36:21,890 --> 00:36:23,630
And that's where they're

889
00:36:23,630 --> 00:36:25,219
coming up with
these percentages.

890
00:36:25,219 --> 00:36:27,004
And and you know,

891
00:36:27,004 --> 00:36:28,159
later down the
road, they go

892
00:36:28,159 --> 00:36:29,434
back to this
report with you.

893
00:36:29,434 --> 00:36:32,719
You've got a only a
denial rate of this,

894
00:36:32,719 --> 00:36:34,309
that's a certain
percentage which

895
00:36:34,309 --> 00:36:36,755
is a fictitious number.

896
00:36:36,755 --> 00:36:38,810
I feel that it is

897
00:36:38,810 --> 00:36:40,880
probably important
to try to

898
00:36:40,880 --> 00:36:42,379
these numbers or at least

899
00:36:42,379 --> 00:36:45,664
clarify before we
arrived at that number.

900
00:36:45,664 --> 00:36:48,200
And I'm I'm very
appreciative of

901
00:36:48,200 --> 00:36:49,580
the fact that Lane
County went through

902
00:36:49,580 --> 00:36:51,079
this effort,
but basically,

903
00:36:51,079 --> 00:36:52,580
I I find it as

904
00:36:52,580 --> 00:36:54,140
relatively
meaningless kind of

905
00:36:54,140 --> 00:36:55,249
information that I don't

906
00:36:55,249 --> 00:36:56,840
see how that
would influence

907
00:36:56,840 --> 00:36:58,805
us in what we do.

908
00:36:58,805 --> 00:37:00,499
I don t think I want

909
00:37:00,499 --> 00:37:02,629
the planters
across the state

910
00:37:02,629 --> 00:37:04,085
taking their time to

911
00:37:04,085 --> 00:37:05,869
log all this and report

912
00:37:05,869 --> 00:37:07,399
it in all the
book work that

913
00:37:07,399 --> 00:37:08,870
must go along
with this kind

914
00:37:08,870 --> 00:37:11,105
of report for
every county.

915
00:37:11,105 --> 00:37:12,949
So I I certainly wouldn't

916
00:37:12,949 --> 00:37:14,840
want to spend
much effort on

917
00:37:14,840 --> 00:37:16,789
Mr. this is kind

918
00:37:16,789 --> 00:37:18,019
of information
that's particularly

919
00:37:18,019 --> 00:37:21,379
helpful and therefore,
I wasted time.

920
00:37:21,379 --> 00:37:24,319
Mr. Chairman, I don't
know that it would

921
00:37:24,319 --> 00:37:25,700
be that big of a problem

922
00:37:25,700 --> 00:37:27,485
for the planners
to do that.

923
00:37:27,485 --> 00:37:29,330
Hector, if they have

924
00:37:29,330 --> 00:37:31,535
those people coming to
the counter anyway,

925
00:37:31,535 --> 00:37:32,569
I would like to
hear a little

926
00:37:32,569 --> 00:37:34,384
more from some
of the planners.

927
00:37:34,384 --> 00:37:35,900
I mean, they're
going to do

928
00:37:35,900 --> 00:37:37,069
the pre-planning thing.

929
00:37:37,069 --> 00:37:38,300
They can either
mark it down,

930
00:37:38,300 --> 00:37:40,729
that the guy went
away because he felt

931
00:37:40,729 --> 00:37:42,080
after they talked
to him that he

932
00:37:42,080 --> 00:37:44,495
wasn't gonna be
able to do it.

933
00:37:44,495 --> 00:37:46,670
Or they went ahead.

934
00:37:46,670 --> 00:37:48,214
And it's no wonder that

935
00:37:48,214 --> 00:37:50,600
organizations like
thousand friends,

936
00:37:50,600 --> 00:37:52,939
like Commissioner
Kerr was saying can

937
00:37:52,939 --> 00:37:55,879
take these and
construe them

938
00:37:55,879 --> 00:37:57,980
because the
counties are trying

939
00:37:57,980 --> 00:37:59,869
to make sure that

940
00:37:59,869 --> 00:38:01,849
the people that they
do go ahead and

941
00:38:01,849 --> 00:38:05,135
accept the
application from R1.

942
00:38:05,135 --> 00:38:07,355
Probably be proved at

943
00:38:07,355 --> 00:38:09,350
least that would be the
sensible thing to do.

944
00:38:09,350 --> 00:38:10,760
And in my mind,

945
00:38:10,760 --> 00:38:11,600
and I think most of you

946
00:38:11,600 --> 00:38:13,009
please try and do that.

947
00:38:13,009 --> 00:38:14,899
I would like to
see that kind

948
00:38:14,899 --> 00:38:16,669
of information included in

949
00:38:16,669 --> 00:38:21,080
the report so
that when people,

950
00:38:21,080 --> 00:38:22,639
the legislative teacher or

951
00:38:22,639 --> 00:38:24,290
whoever looks
at this thing,

952
00:38:24,290 --> 00:38:26,690
they can get an
accurate idea of

953
00:38:26,690 --> 00:38:28,100
actually how
many people in

954
00:38:28,100 --> 00:38:30,184
this state are
trying to do this,

955
00:38:30,184 --> 00:38:31,489
whatever they're
trying to do

956
00:38:31,489 --> 00:38:33,365
building the farmer
Forest Lane.

957
00:38:33,365 --> 00:38:35,030
I can I can

958
00:38:35,030 --> 00:38:36,469
greet him with you
to this extent,

959
00:38:36,469 --> 00:38:37,580
there's one
thing that I see

960
00:38:37,580 --> 00:38:39,050
This would do this
but give them

961
00:38:39,050 --> 00:38:40,850
some indication
of the level of

962
00:38:40,850 --> 00:38:42,079
activity that people

963
00:38:42,079 --> 00:38:43,190
would like to
have out there.

964
00:38:43,190 --> 00:38:44,570
So there maybe there is

965
00:38:44,570 --> 00:38:46,010
some argument

966
00:38:46,010 --> 00:38:47,945
against my own
position at this point

967
00:38:47,945 --> 00:38:49,460
because perhaps there is

968
00:38:49,460 --> 00:38:51,769
some use for this
kind of information

969
00:38:51,769 --> 00:38:53,239
that people will
come to the counter

970
00:38:53,239 --> 00:38:55,835
and decide not
to do anything.

971
00:38:55,835 --> 00:38:57,949
I agree with you that
it shouldn't take

972
00:38:57,949 --> 00:39:00,050
a lot of time or waste
a lot of effort,

973
00:39:00,050 --> 00:39:01,160
but I don't know

974
00:39:01,160 --> 00:39:02,539
that it would be
a big problem.

975
00:39:02,539 --> 00:39:03,620
I'd like to hear from the

976
00:39:03,620 --> 00:39:05,179
counties to see
what they have to

977
00:39:05,179 --> 00:39:08,850
say about that. Gentler.

978
00:39:13,180 --> 00:39:16,595
This is this is the
six-year speech.

979
00:39:16,595 --> 00:39:19,654
Every time we
produce this report,

980
00:39:19,654 --> 00:39:22,010
can we prepare this
for the legislature?

981
00:39:22,010 --> 00:39:24,230
We say now what

982
00:39:24,230 --> 00:39:26,585
we really need we or
someone else says,

983
00:39:26,585 --> 00:39:30,409
not just us, but
someone says number,

984
00:39:30,409 --> 00:39:32,464
it really doesn't
convey the right thing.

985
00:39:32,464 --> 00:39:33,799
We really need to get

986
00:39:33,799 --> 00:39:35,375
this piece of information.

987
00:39:35,375 --> 00:39:36,589
We go through this kind of

988
00:39:36,589 --> 00:39:38,149
thing and then we say,

989
00:39:38,149 --> 00:39:39,709
we don't have
the staff people

990
00:39:39,709 --> 00:39:40,549
to dedicate to it,

991
00:39:40,549 --> 00:39:41,809
but at some point in

992
00:39:41,809 --> 00:39:43,985
the future, we'll do this.

993
00:39:43,985 --> 00:39:47,809
And I have to say
that at this point,

994
00:39:47,809 --> 00:39:49,970
it's a little bit dancing

995
00:39:49,970 --> 00:39:50,989
on the head of a pin.

996
00:39:50,989 --> 00:39:52,594
No, no disrespect to

997
00:39:52,594 --> 00:39:53,810
any of the valid points

998
00:39:53,810 --> 00:39:54,904
that have been
raised here.

999
00:39:54,904 --> 00:39:57,245
What we need to do is,

1000
00:39:57,245 --> 00:39:58,820
I think is we're going to

1001
00:39:58,820 --> 00:40:00,515
get the fireman
for a study done.

1002
00:40:00,515 --> 00:40:01,189
I have to show

1003
00:40:01,189 --> 00:40:03,080
John Brzezinski these
two things, right?

1004
00:40:03,080 --> 00:40:04,024
I saw I saw those.

1005
00:40:04,024 --> 00:40:05,459
I'm sorry.

1006
00:40:05,560 --> 00:40:07,969
This isn't what this

1007
00:40:07,969 --> 00:40:09,754
produced was another
round of well,

1008
00:40:09,754 --> 00:40:10,849
the question we
really need to

1009
00:40:10,849 --> 00:40:13,279
ask is and what

1010
00:40:13,279 --> 00:40:17,075
I think we need to do
is take this document,

1011
00:40:17,075 --> 00:40:19,310
get it to the legislature
in a timely manner.

1012
00:40:19,310 --> 00:40:20,869
But the really
important part

1013
00:40:20,869 --> 00:40:24,185
is there needs to
be some analysis,

1014
00:40:24,185 --> 00:40:29,810
finite analysis of what
we're looking for,

1015
00:40:29,810 --> 00:40:32,359
how we get it,
when we get it,

1016
00:40:32,359 --> 00:40:34,504
and probably would
it cost to get it.

1017
00:40:34,504 --> 00:40:36,619
But what I would

1018
00:40:36,619 --> 00:40:37,849
propose is that we get

1019
00:40:37,849 --> 00:40:39,845
this information
legislature,

1020
00:40:39,845 --> 00:40:41,210
we finish up the farming

1021
00:40:41,210 --> 00:40:42,769
forest land
research project.

1022
00:40:42,769 --> 00:40:44,134
Then we schedule like

1023
00:40:44,134 --> 00:40:45,830
a three-hour work session

1024
00:40:45,830 --> 00:40:48,874
including the Department
of Agriculture,

1025
00:40:48,874 --> 00:40:51,169
including the farm bureau,

1026
00:40:51,169 --> 00:40:52,744
including some
of the other,

1027
00:40:52,744 --> 00:40:54,319
the timber people vitally

1028
00:40:54,319 --> 00:40:56,224
interested in this stuff.

1029
00:40:56,224 --> 00:40:57,725
And just say, let's,

1030
00:40:57,725 --> 00:40:59,780
let's quit refining what

1031
00:40:59,780 --> 00:41:01,834
we've been trying to
refine for six years.

1032
00:41:01,834 --> 00:41:04,100
Why do we need to know
how do we get it?

1033
00:41:04,100 --> 00:41:05,030
What's the best way to

1034
00:41:05,030 --> 00:41:06,409
get the counties to get it

1035
00:41:06,409 --> 00:41:10,805
and then go on from there.

1036
00:41:10,805 --> 00:41:13,984
I have to say I was
now working on my farm

1037
00:41:13,984 --> 00:41:16,955
last weekend and
working, really working.

1038
00:41:16,955 --> 00:41:20,774
And there are two
new structures.

1039
00:41:20,774 --> 00:41:23,755
I'm visible.

1040
00:41:23,755 --> 00:41:25,555
One of which is a an

1041
00:41:25,555 --> 00:41:28,240
8,000 square
foot farmhouse,

1042
00:41:28,240 --> 00:41:31,120
the largest farmhouse
I've ever seen.

1043
00:41:31,120 --> 00:41:33,654
And I see these
things happening.

1044
00:41:33,654 --> 00:41:35,454
I see this development
occurring.

1045
00:41:35,454 --> 00:41:37,209
Then we're talking
about, but what

1046
00:41:37,209 --> 00:41:38,770
we need is this piece
of information.

1047
00:41:38,770 --> 00:41:39,759
I'm not saying
we don't need

1048
00:41:39,759 --> 00:41:40,884
those pieces of
information.

1049
00:41:40,884 --> 00:41:42,190
I'm just saying
it's time for

1050
00:41:42,190 --> 00:41:44,320
a clearinghouse where
we kind of say,

1051
00:41:44,320 --> 00:41:45,879
why do we got, why

1052
00:41:45,879 --> 00:41:47,470
don't we have
how do we get

1053
00:41:47,470 --> 00:41:48,760
it and go on because

1054
00:41:48,760 --> 00:41:50,604
we're not getting
anywhere.

1055
00:41:50,604 --> 00:41:52,420
Taking these
incremental steps and

1056
00:41:52,420 --> 00:41:54,965
trying to improve this
one little piece.

1057
00:41:54,965 --> 00:41:57,600
Another way to say

1058
00:41:57,600 --> 00:41:59,220
that somewhat the same
thing and I agree

1059
00:41:59,220 --> 00:42:01,409
entirely is that we

1060
00:42:01,409 --> 00:42:02,879
don't really care what
these numbers are,

1061
00:42:02,879 --> 00:42:04,844
how many non-farm
dwellings, fire dwellings,

1062
00:42:04,844 --> 00:42:06,630
percentage of
denials, approvals,

1063
00:42:06,630 --> 00:42:07,815
and so on. That's
all baloney.

1064
00:42:07,815 --> 00:42:09,240
What we really
wanna know is

1065
00:42:09,240 --> 00:42:11,415
how many legal
approvals were there?

1066
00:42:11,415 --> 00:42:13,200
How many illegal
approvals where

1067
00:42:13,200 --> 00:42:16,470
there is every county

1068
00:42:16,470 --> 00:42:18,629
applying the same
set of standards,

1069
00:42:18,629 --> 00:42:20,400
which comes to your point,

1070
00:42:20,400 --> 00:42:21,449
they may be all
in there maybe

1071
00:42:21,449 --> 00:42:22,589
applying different
standards.

1072
00:42:22,589 --> 00:42:24,779
So five approvals
in one county

1073
00:42:24,779 --> 00:42:25,919
may result in zero

1074
00:42:25,919 --> 00:42:27,509
approvals and
another county.

1075
00:42:27,509 --> 00:42:29,489
And we could ask

1076
00:42:29,489 --> 00:42:31,094
them, are you
obeying the law?

1077
00:42:31,094 --> 00:42:32,219
But I don't know if

1078
00:42:32,219 --> 00:42:33,539
that would get
us very far.

1079
00:42:33,539 --> 00:42:38,039
So what we just
got, the thing is

1080
00:42:38,039 --> 00:42:39,119
the law being obeyed

1081
00:42:39,119 --> 00:42:40,199
if they're being alone and

1082
00:42:40,199 --> 00:42:41,294
we shouldn't care how many

1083
00:42:41,294 --> 00:42:43,479
non-farm drawling Sarah.

1084
00:42:44,900 --> 00:42:47,580
And I think part
of that is,

1085
00:42:47,580 --> 00:42:50,549
is it became
apparent early on

1086
00:42:50,549 --> 00:42:51,149
in the farm and

1087
00:42:51,149 --> 00:42:53,759
forest land research
project that

1088
00:42:53,759 --> 00:42:56,189
there is a cost of

1089
00:42:56,189 --> 00:42:58,229
all the counties
keeping track of

1090
00:42:58,229 --> 00:43:00,824
data in different
ways and it may be,

1091
00:43:00,824 --> 00:43:02,880
and I'm optimistic
that we can save the

1092
00:43:02,880 --> 00:43:05,189
county's a lot of time

1093
00:43:05,189 --> 00:43:07,410
and money and effort by

1094
00:43:07,410 --> 00:43:11,164
simplifying getting
to the nuts

1095
00:43:11,164 --> 00:43:12,614
of what we're after.

1096
00:43:12,614 --> 00:43:14,579
And to some extent

1097
00:43:14,579 --> 00:43:15,315
not having

1098
00:43:15,315 --> 00:43:16,739
all these different
kinds of I mean,

1099
00:43:16,739 --> 00:43:18,180
we have all these
different reporting

1100
00:43:18,180 --> 00:43:19,305
and we still don't get.

1101
00:43:19,305 --> 00:43:20,685
What we want to answer it.

1102
00:43:20,685 --> 00:43:23,040
So I just think
there's now's the time

1103
00:43:23,040 --> 00:43:26,504
to with these two
pieces to stop.

1104
00:43:26,504 --> 00:43:27,869
Look at what we need, what

1105
00:43:27,869 --> 00:43:28,979
we don't have and go on.

1106
00:43:28,979 --> 00:43:30,240
Well-mixed solution
with respect to

1107
00:43:30,240 --> 00:43:33,640
these misspellings,
you must stop sharing.

1108
00:43:33,650 --> 00:43:36,150
You're saying we
should stop and do

1109
00:43:36,150 --> 00:43:38,175
something right now today?

1110
00:43:38,175 --> 00:43:38,685
Yes.

1111
00:43:38,685 --> 00:43:39,960
Well, not right
this minute.

1112
00:43:39,960 --> 00:43:41,644
We're not finished
with this piece of it.

1113
00:43:41,644 --> 00:43:43,140
I know, but should

1114
00:43:43,140 --> 00:43:46,649
we we incorporate
something here?

1115
00:43:46,649 --> 00:43:47,729
As far as I think in

1116
00:43:47,729 --> 00:43:49,020
the letter to
the legislator,

1117
00:43:49,020 --> 00:43:51,029
I would make a
motion that we send

1118
00:43:51,029 --> 00:43:53,760
the report on
with the letter,

1119
00:43:53,760 --> 00:43:55,380
but that we say
in that letter

1120
00:43:55,380 --> 00:43:56,640
that we think
it is time to

1121
00:43:56,640 --> 00:43:57,990
stop and look at

1122
00:43:57,990 --> 00:44:00,000
the different
reporting mechanisms

1123
00:44:00,000 --> 00:44:01,274
in the various counties.

1124
00:44:01,274 --> 00:44:03,330
Look at the research
framework that

1125
00:44:03,330 --> 00:44:04,379
we look at these issues

1126
00:44:04,379 --> 00:44:05,459
and make improvements.

1127
00:44:05,459 --> 00:44:06,510
And then we incorporate

1128
00:44:06,510 --> 00:44:07,950
into that
improvement process

1129
00:44:07,950 --> 00:44:10,770
the Criddle, critically
interested parties,

1130
00:44:10,770 --> 00:44:11,789
which I would include the

1131
00:44:11,789 --> 00:44:13,919
industry's most effected,

1132
00:44:13,919 --> 00:44:15,419
the interests groups,

1133
00:44:15,419 --> 00:44:17,339
the counties, et cetera.

1134
00:44:17,339 --> 00:44:19,004
I went second emotion

1135
00:44:19,004 --> 00:44:20,955
and that we look at that.

1136
00:44:20,955 --> 00:44:22,290
We also and I

1137
00:44:22,290 --> 00:44:23,669
do think it's
appropriate to say to

1138
00:44:23,669 --> 00:44:25,740
the legislature that we

1139
00:44:25,740 --> 00:44:27,750
have these two counties
that there seems to

1140
00:44:27,750 --> 00:44:29,790
be some major issues
and we've directed

1141
00:44:29,790 --> 00:44:30,839
staff to look at those

1142
00:44:30,839 --> 00:44:32,220
two counties
in particular,

1143
00:44:32,220 --> 00:44:33,660
immediate to see what

1144
00:44:33,660 --> 00:44:36,929
the issues are
immediately. Right.

1145
00:44:36,929 --> 00:44:39,390
You think we go to
our director said

1146
00:44:39,390 --> 00:44:40,079
she wasn't so sure

1147
00:44:40,079 --> 00:44:41,190
we want to put
that in a letter,

1148
00:44:41,190 --> 00:44:42,420
but you think we ought
to put in a letter

1149
00:44:42,420 --> 00:44:45,300
that there are the
report shows that

1150
00:44:45,300 --> 00:44:46,529
there may be problems

1151
00:44:46,529 --> 00:44:47,849
in a couple of I
don't think we I

1152
00:44:47,849 --> 00:44:49,649
think we want to say
that the report shows we

1153
00:44:49,649 --> 00:44:51,750
need to look intensively
at these counties.

1154
00:44:51,750 --> 00:44:53,610
I think problems is

1155
00:44:53,610 --> 00:44:54,809
I've been looking at

1156
00:44:54,809 --> 00:44:56,429
these reports long
enough to think.

1157
00:44:56,429 --> 00:44:58,964
Maybe that's
overstatement, maybe not.

1158
00:44:58,964 --> 00:45:00,749
It might be good
if you're going to

1159
00:45:00,749 --> 00:45:02,189
put that into
the letter to

1160
00:45:02,189 --> 00:45:03,449
acknowledge that
you are already

1161
00:45:03,449 --> 00:45:05,490
working with those
counties because that's

1162
00:45:05,490 --> 00:45:06,300
what we were pointing out

1163
00:45:06,300 --> 00:45:07,229
in our briefing session

1164
00:45:07,229 --> 00:45:08,580
yesterday that
we've actually

1165
00:45:08,580 --> 00:45:09,929
reached an
agreement with jet.

1166
00:45:09,929 --> 00:45:11,189
You did an agreement

1167
00:45:11,189 --> 00:45:12,810
with Jackson
Browne yesterday

1168
00:45:12,810 --> 00:45:15,989
about we reached an
agreement with Jackson.

1169
00:45:15,989 --> 00:45:17,640
We didn't include Jackson.

1170
00:45:17,640 --> 00:45:18,975
I always including
the other.

1171
00:45:18,975 --> 00:45:21,690
Then in terms of and
I think that you'd

1172
00:45:21,690 --> 00:45:22,829
have to say if
you are going to

1173
00:45:22,829 --> 00:45:24,270
point out the other
two counties,

1174
00:45:24,270 --> 00:45:25,290
you'd have to
say something

1175
00:45:25,290 --> 00:45:26,549
about Jackson
because it's so

1176
00:45:26,549 --> 00:45:27,599
obvious for reading with

1177
00:45:27,599 --> 00:45:30,030
a report that but
that would be okay.

1178
00:45:30,030 --> 00:45:32,920
Then I think that

1179
00:45:33,410 --> 00:45:35,580
and then saying something

1180
00:45:35,580 --> 00:45:37,140
like and in
addition to that,

1181
00:45:37,140 --> 00:45:40,619
you've directed
staff to work with

1182
00:45:40,619 --> 00:45:43,050
both yam heal and
clack most counties

1183
00:45:43,050 --> 00:45:45,389
to try to identify
what's happened,

1184
00:45:45,389 --> 00:45:46,590
what's happening
there, and

1185
00:45:46,590 --> 00:45:47,909
then I think
that would that

1186
00:45:47,909 --> 00:45:49,110
would I think that kind of

1187
00:45:49,110 --> 00:45:51,165
language would work
in the cover memo.

1188
00:45:51,165 --> 00:45:53,070
I just wanted to
say one other thing

1189
00:45:53,070 --> 00:45:55,260
that is I think that I

1190
00:45:55,260 --> 00:45:57,329
absolutely agree with
what we're saying

1191
00:45:57,329 --> 00:45:59,759
about the need
to back and say,

1192
00:45:59,759 --> 00:46:01,199
Okay, what does
this data mean?

1193
00:46:01,199 --> 00:46:03,315
Is it really giving
us what we want?

1194
00:46:03,315 --> 00:46:05,040
I think that if we're put

1195
00:46:05,040 --> 00:46:06,569
that in the letter
to the legislature,

1196
00:46:06,569 --> 00:46:07,889
what we ought to
be committing

1197
00:46:07,889 --> 00:46:09,030
to is actually making

1198
00:46:09,030 --> 00:46:11,460
some recommendations
back to the legislature

1199
00:46:11,460 --> 00:46:13,739
because he's
reporting requirement

1200
00:46:13,739 --> 00:46:15,420
exists in state statutes.

1201
00:46:15,420 --> 00:46:16,800
So think what we might

1202
00:46:16,800 --> 00:46:18,585
want to say is that
the commission

1203
00:46:18,585 --> 00:46:20,549
would like to do this work

1204
00:46:20,549 --> 00:46:21,749
with these
different groups

1205
00:46:21,749 --> 00:46:22,769
and then actually make

1206
00:46:22,769 --> 00:46:25,199
a report in 93 legislature

1207
00:46:25,199 --> 00:46:27,839
on whether the
statute itself should

1208
00:46:27,839 --> 00:46:29,940
be amended or
other refinements

1209
00:46:29,940 --> 00:46:31,140
should be made to improve

1210
00:46:31,140 --> 00:46:32,250
the reporting system

1211
00:46:32,250 --> 00:46:33,629
and then you
would officially

1212
00:46:33,629 --> 00:46:35,519
put it on your
work program

1213
00:46:35,519 --> 00:46:37,530
for the next biennium

1214
00:46:37,530 --> 00:46:39,855
so a concerted effort
could be made.

1215
00:46:39,855 --> 00:46:42,090
Then the other thing

1216
00:46:42,090 --> 00:46:44,279
I'd say is that I do think

1217
00:46:44,279 --> 00:46:46,425
that there have been

1218
00:46:46,425 --> 00:46:48,390
some real significant
improvements

1219
00:46:48,390 --> 00:46:49,559
made in the report.

1220
00:46:49,559 --> 00:46:52,260
And I think that the even

1221
00:46:52,260 --> 00:46:53,489
though the custom of

1222
00:46:53,489 --> 00:46:54,989
the basic questions
absolutely

1223
00:46:54,989 --> 00:46:55,920
need to be asked,

1224
00:46:55,920 --> 00:46:57,569
I think that some

1225
00:46:57,569 --> 00:46:59,189
of the suggestions
that link count,

1226
00:46:59,189 --> 00:47:00,780
I'd like to acknowledge
that a lot of

1227
00:47:00,780 --> 00:47:02,549
the suggestions made
by Lane County,

1228
00:47:02,549 --> 00:47:05,429
especially over the
last year-and-a-half,

1229
00:47:05,429 --> 00:47:07,649
has given us some
really good ideas

1230
00:47:07,649 --> 00:47:08,699
about things to add

1231
00:47:08,699 --> 00:47:09,990
which we have
incorporated.

1232
00:47:09,990 --> 00:47:11,820
And I think that
report is definitely

1233
00:47:11,820 --> 00:47:14,099
getting better and
easier to use.

1234
00:47:14,099 --> 00:47:17,069
Because you
Chairman? Yes. I I

1235
00:47:17,069 --> 00:47:19,740
am not so interested in
putting the names of

1236
00:47:19,740 --> 00:47:22,245
these counties in as I am

1237
00:47:22,245 --> 00:47:26,160
this this commission
reflecting to

1238
00:47:26,160 --> 00:47:28,949
the legislature that
there is actually

1239
00:47:28,949 --> 00:47:33,089
a need for a change
in every year.

1240
00:47:33,089 --> 00:47:35,190
As as Lynn said,

1241
00:47:35,190 --> 00:47:38,354
we go through the
same scenario.

1242
00:47:38,354 --> 00:47:40,440
Saying that we need
to change this.

1243
00:47:40,440 --> 00:47:41,849
Saying I'm interested in

1244
00:47:41,849 --> 00:47:43,950
seeing is as well as
there are a lot of

1245
00:47:43,950 --> 00:47:46,454
other people in the
state that these things

1246
00:47:46,454 --> 00:47:49,320
accurately reflect
what's going on.

1247
00:47:49,320 --> 00:47:51,435
And there has
been a constant

1248
00:47:51,435 --> 00:47:55,709
I'm kind of upheaval that

1249
00:47:55,709 --> 00:47:59,279
these reports don't and
I think we even agree

1250
00:47:59,279 --> 00:48:00,960
here on the commission
that they don't

1251
00:48:00,960 --> 00:48:03,315
because we've had
the same discussion,

1252
00:48:03,315 --> 00:48:05,849
if I remember correctly
about every year,

1253
00:48:05,849 --> 00:48:07,200
that when this thing

1254
00:48:07,200 --> 00:48:09,029
comes up to go to
the legislature,

1255
00:48:09,029 --> 00:48:10,695
that there's
problems with it.

1256
00:48:10,695 --> 00:48:12,720
We need to change
it, so let's do it.

1257
00:48:12,720 --> 00:48:14,399
Let's put in there that

1258
00:48:14,399 --> 00:48:16,139
we're going to
do something.

1259
00:48:16,139 --> 00:48:17,970
Don't I don't think we
would want to say that

1260
00:48:17,970 --> 00:48:19,964
we're going to do is we
want to do something.

1261
00:48:19,964 --> 00:48:21,120
Well, we want
to figure out

1262
00:48:21,120 --> 00:48:22,410
whether we ought
to do so, right?

1263
00:48:22,410 --> 00:48:23,429
Exactly. Because I don t

1264
00:48:23,429 --> 00:48:24,569
know that I agree
with you that there's

1265
00:48:24,569 --> 00:48:25,815
any problem with
the data here

1266
00:48:25,815 --> 00:48:27,209
because I think what
we're searching

1267
00:48:27,209 --> 00:48:28,830
for is something that

1268
00:48:28,830 --> 00:48:30,509
we can't ever get
out of the data.

1269
00:48:30,509 --> 00:48:34,020
Which is, are these
approvals proper or not?

1270
00:48:34,020 --> 00:48:35,354
Are they legal?

1271
00:48:35,354 --> 00:48:37,275
Well, who's to
make that, judge?

1272
00:48:37,275 --> 00:48:38,280
Well, that's why
I say you can't

1273
00:48:38,280 --> 00:48:39,435
get that out of data.

1274
00:48:39,435 --> 00:48:41,565
All the data does is
give you an indicator,

1275
00:48:41,565 --> 00:48:44,954
but the data is not
totally for yourself.

1276
00:48:44,954 --> 00:48:46,320
Maybe something's
going on there,

1277
00:48:46,320 --> 00:48:47,699
we'd better analyze it.

1278
00:48:47,699 --> 00:48:49,589
You go and you have
to do with the staff

1279
00:48:49,589 --> 00:48:52,080
does take every one
of the 500 approvals,

1280
00:48:52,080 --> 00:48:53,310
look at every one
of them and and

1281
00:48:53,310 --> 00:48:55,439
analyzed it against
the law and so forth.

1282
00:48:55,439 --> 00:48:58,709
But a report will never
give you that answer.

1283
00:48:58,709 --> 00:49:00,749
Report is gives
you indicators of

1284
00:49:00,749 --> 00:49:04,380
activity causes early
early warning system.

1285
00:49:04,380 --> 00:49:06,090
I guess I guess my concern

1286
00:49:06,090 --> 00:49:08,159
is is there's more
information out there

1287
00:49:08,159 --> 00:49:11,490
that could make the
report better reflective

1288
00:49:11,490 --> 00:49:13,259
of what actually
is going on

1289
00:49:13,259 --> 00:49:15,584
that isn't included
in the report.

1290
00:49:15,584 --> 00:49:17,700
I am. One of those

1291
00:49:17,700 --> 00:49:19,560
is the number of
people that actually

1292
00:49:19,560 --> 00:49:21,210
come to the counter
and that are turned

1293
00:49:21,210 --> 00:49:24,000
away and see what's
going on out there.

1294
00:49:24,000 --> 00:49:24,959
That could be one of

1295
00:49:24,959 --> 00:49:26,774
the most spurious numbers.

1296
00:49:26,774 --> 00:49:28,560
Statistically, that
would be just about

1297
00:49:28,560 --> 00:49:30,359
as far as anything else.

1298
00:49:30,359 --> 00:49:31,589
But that's why
we need to have

1299
00:49:31,589 --> 00:49:33,915
the discussion.

1300
00:49:33,915 --> 00:49:35,879
The other thing
is I'm getting

1301
00:49:35,879 --> 00:49:38,640
I'm getting concerned
about commissioner,

1302
00:49:38,640 --> 00:49:39,660
true.

1303
00:49:39,660 --> 00:49:41,640
We know that he's okay

1304
00:49:41,640 --> 00:49:44,415
and well, he said
he was okay.

1305
00:49:44,415 --> 00:49:47,880
But the Ginny said
that he was okay.

1306
00:49:47,880 --> 00:49:50,969
They were going to she

1307
00:49:50,969 --> 00:49:52,770
didn't say what they're
taking a while.

1308
00:49:52,770 --> 00:49:53,669
There could be somebody

1309
00:49:53,669 --> 00:49:54,270
out there with a heart

1310
00:49:54,270 --> 00:49:56,414
attack and they've
gotten incident there.

1311
00:49:56,414 --> 00:49:59,145
Okay. Can I make
one other comment?

1312
00:49:59,145 --> 00:50:00,299
I have spoken with

1313
00:50:00,299 --> 00:50:02,609
both Polk and Hood
River counties

1314
00:50:02,609 --> 00:50:03,870
about their letters which

1315
00:50:03,870 --> 00:50:05,370
raise some questions
about the numbers,

1316
00:50:05,370 --> 00:50:06,599
and they both concur in

1317
00:50:06,599 --> 00:50:08,340
the numbers that
are in the report,

1318
00:50:08,340 --> 00:50:11,380
that they are in
fact accurate.

1319
00:50:12,080 --> 00:50:14,130
We've had a
little discussion

1320
00:50:14,130 --> 00:50:14,999
on whether we
ought to include

1321
00:50:14,999 --> 00:50:16,319
names of counties
and I think it

1322
00:50:16,319 --> 00:50:17,909
would be inappropriate
to include

1323
00:50:17,909 --> 00:50:19,200
glaucoma said you have

1324
00:50:19,200 --> 00:50:21,509
to be ultimately shoots.

1325
00:50:21,509 --> 00:50:22,500
Obviously you look at

1326
00:50:22,500 --> 00:50:25,994
them in the same category.

1327
00:50:25,994 --> 00:50:27,510
Names, we already
covered them,

1328
00:50:27,510 --> 00:50:28,619
but I guess I think

1329
00:50:28,619 --> 00:50:30,780
I need to I

1330
00:50:30,780 --> 00:50:31,440
think maybe it's

1331
00:50:31,440 --> 00:50:32,654
inappropriate to
mention names,

1332
00:50:32,654 --> 00:50:33,719
mentioned the one we're

1333
00:50:33,719 --> 00:50:35,039
working with specifically,

1334
00:50:35,039 --> 00:50:37,319
but say we're looking
at the rest of the

1335
00:50:37,319 --> 00:50:39,030
bigger we don't need to

1336
00:50:39,030 --> 00:50:40,800
put names in the
legislature.

1337
00:50:40,800 --> 00:50:41,910
I just want us to be clear

1338
00:50:41,910 --> 00:50:42,960
to staff which ones

1339
00:50:42,960 --> 00:50:45,825
were saying deserve
further attention.

1340
00:50:45,825 --> 00:50:48,554
You've articulated

1341
00:50:48,554 --> 00:50:49,799
the proposed change you

1342
00:50:49,799 --> 00:50:51,435
would like in the leather.

1343
00:50:51,435 --> 00:50:53,339
That part of
your motion that

1344
00:50:53,339 --> 00:50:55,409
proposed change in the
letter would be that

1345
00:50:55,409 --> 00:50:58,019
we include a statement

1346
00:50:58,019 --> 00:50:59,790
that we're looking
at the counties,

1347
00:50:59,790 --> 00:51:01,530
that we think
there might be

1348
00:51:01,530 --> 00:51:02,669
some questions and
we're gonna look

1349
00:51:02,669 --> 00:51:03,989
at them in more detail.

1350
00:51:03,989 --> 00:51:05,070
We've asked staff to look

1351
00:51:05,070 --> 00:51:06,584
at them in more detail.

1352
00:51:06,584 --> 00:51:09,180
And that upon conclusion

1353
00:51:09,180 --> 00:51:11,565
of the farm and forest
research project,

1354
00:51:11,565 --> 00:51:14,069
we are going to pursue

1355
00:51:14,069 --> 00:51:17,219
convening interested
parties to look at

1356
00:51:17,219 --> 00:51:19,035
ways to get at

1357
00:51:19,035 --> 00:51:20,940
the information that
we are seeking,

1358
00:51:20,940 --> 00:51:23,310
which is whether
the land use law

1359
00:51:23,310 --> 00:51:25,919
in this area is working
as it should work.

1360
00:51:25,919 --> 00:51:28,559
And that we would like
to report back to

1361
00:51:28,559 --> 00:51:32,669
the 990s three legislative
session on with

1362
00:51:32,669 --> 00:51:35,744
a proposal for how to make

1363
00:51:35,744 --> 00:51:37,649
sure that the
land-use laws

1364
00:51:37,649 --> 00:51:39,540
working the way it's
supposed to be working.

1365
00:51:39,540 --> 00:51:41,924
So we're leaving out
the names of the canon.

1366
00:51:41,924 --> 00:51:43,620
And that's still second to

1367
00:51:43,620 --> 00:51:45,135
pull on your
secondary to that.

1368
00:51:45,135 --> 00:51:46,214
Yes. Yes.

1369
00:51:46,214 --> 00:51:50,130
That's a long run over
along motion later.

1370
00:51:50,130 --> 00:51:50,984
Hope you remember.

1371
00:51:50,984 --> 00:51:52,574
We're submitting
the report.

1372
00:51:52,574 --> 00:51:54,134
We're submitting
a letter which

1373
00:51:54,134 --> 00:51:55,634
we're going to
revise as you said,

1374
00:51:55,634 --> 00:51:57,599
Would you when they
get the letter

1375
00:51:57,599 --> 00:52:00,390
revise but you look at
and see whether sure.

1376
00:52:00,390 --> 00:52:02,430
You run it run a
letter by land

1377
00:52:02,430 --> 00:52:04,724
delivered looking
at oh, yeah, sure.

1378
00:52:04,724 --> 00:52:05,685
Okay.

1379
00:52:05,685 --> 00:52:06,795
Question.

1380
00:52:06,795 --> 00:52:09,480
Further discussion.
Wasn't favor aye.

1381
00:52:09,480 --> 00:52:10,139
Aye.

1382
00:52:10,139 --> 00:52:12,630
Any oppose? No. Okay.

1383
00:52:12,630 --> 00:52:14,694
It's a little look
at your letter.

1384
00:52:14,694 --> 00:52:17,250
When you get to go

1385
00:52:17,250 --> 00:52:19,779
to a farm forest
research study.

1386
00:52:42,140 --> 00:52:44,219
For the record,
Mr. Chairman,

1387
00:52:44,219 --> 00:52:45,419
my name is Jim hope.

1388
00:52:45,419 --> 00:52:47,354
I'm the project
coordinator.

1389
00:52:47,354 --> 00:52:49,514
We've submitted both

1390
00:52:49,514 --> 00:52:51,570
the pre-publication copies

1391
00:52:51,570 --> 00:52:54,030
of the task one and
test three report,

1392
00:52:54,030 --> 00:52:56,919
as well as the
status report.

1393
00:52:57,050 --> 00:52:58,800
What we want to try and

1394
00:52:58,800 --> 00:52:59,789
make you aware as one,

1395
00:52:59,789 --> 00:53:01,049
we're working
quite closely

1396
00:53:01,049 --> 00:53:01,920
with the authors of

1397
00:53:01,920 --> 00:53:04,860
these two reports
to make sure,

1398
00:53:04,860 --> 00:53:06,810
particularly in the
executive summary,

1399
00:53:06,810 --> 00:53:08,354
that their findings are

1400
00:53:08,354 --> 00:53:10,380
clearly stated in
a way that aren't

1401
00:53:10,380 --> 00:53:12,945
subject to
misinterpretation and

1402
00:53:12,945 --> 00:53:14,759
hopefully the
information that

1403
00:53:14,759 --> 00:53:16,200
they are conveying or

1404
00:53:16,200 --> 00:53:19,200
both Stan public scrutiny
and be helpful in

1405
00:53:19,200 --> 00:53:20,070
the discussions that are

1406
00:53:20,070 --> 00:53:20,999
underway right now in

1407
00:53:20,999 --> 00:53:23,760
the legislature and
amongst the commission.

1408
00:53:23,760 --> 00:53:25,709
A question that would

1409
00:53:25,709 --> 00:53:27,209
be helpful to get
guidance from

1410
00:53:27,209 --> 00:53:29,369
the Commission on we have

1411
00:53:29,369 --> 00:53:31,545
received a
preliminary draft

1412
00:53:31,545 --> 00:53:33,509
of the test to report.

1413
00:53:33,509 --> 00:53:36,599
The final version
of that is due

1414
00:53:36,599 --> 00:53:37,680
to be submitted to

1415
00:53:37,680 --> 00:53:39,705
the Department
next Friday.

1416
00:53:39,705 --> 00:53:42,450
The question before you

1417
00:53:42,450 --> 00:53:44,520
would be would you like us

1418
00:53:44,520 --> 00:53:45,749
to proceed on submitting

1419
00:53:45,749 --> 00:53:46,904
these two reports

1420
00:53:46,904 --> 00:53:49,164
early next week to
the legislature.

1421
00:53:49,164 --> 00:53:50,899
Given that we are
already behind

1422
00:53:50,899 --> 00:53:52,594
schedule on the project,

1423
00:53:52,594 --> 00:53:54,860
or would it be
preferable from

1424
00:53:54,860 --> 00:53:57,139
the commission's
perspective to

1425
00:53:57,139 --> 00:54:00,605
submit all three
reports together?

1426
00:54:00,605 --> 00:54:04,849
I'm sorry? I was
not tracking.

1427
00:54:04,849 --> 00:54:08,120
What did you just ask
as we proposed to

1428
00:54:08,120 --> 00:54:09,619
submit task one
and task three

1429
00:54:09,619 --> 00:54:11,419
to the legislature
early next week,

1430
00:54:11,419 --> 00:54:12,604
right. With the
cover letter.

1431
00:54:12,604 --> 00:54:15,154
Right. I'm just making
you aware that there's

1432
00:54:15,154 --> 00:54:16,880
the third report is

1433
00:54:16,880 --> 00:54:18,529
due from the consultant

1434
00:54:18,529 --> 00:54:20,045
at the end of next week.

1435
00:54:20,045 --> 00:54:22,100
So there is the
opportunity

1436
00:54:22,100 --> 00:54:24,170
if the commission
feels appropriate

1437
00:54:24,170 --> 00:54:26,809
to delay an additional
ten days and submit

1438
00:54:26,809 --> 00:54:29,600
all three consultant
reports together.

1439
00:54:29,600 --> 00:54:35,039
Oh. Originally, we had
thought there would be

1440
00:54:35,039 --> 00:54:38,280
a larger time
period between two

1441
00:54:38,280 --> 00:54:42,329
and so that that is
what raised that issue.

1442
00:54:42,329 --> 00:54:46,379
There is there is

1443
00:54:46,379 --> 00:54:47,969
something to say
for submitting all

1444
00:54:47,969 --> 00:54:49,740
three at once and
saying it's done.

1445
00:54:49,740 --> 00:54:51,525
So that's what
James Madison,

1446
00:54:51,525 --> 00:54:53,400
I think I would
concur with.

1447
00:54:53,400 --> 00:54:56,580
Waiting waiting for
the for all three.

1448
00:54:56,580 --> 00:54:58,139
Have we heard Oh,

1449
00:54:58,139 --> 00:54:59,549
well, let me give it

1450
00:54:59,549 --> 00:55:00,540
an argument on
the other side.

1451
00:55:00,540 --> 00:55:01,950
And that is the week.

1452
00:55:01,950 --> 00:55:04,620
There's an patients
and the legislature

1453
00:55:04,620 --> 00:55:08,829
of get some
results from us.

1454
00:55:09,560 --> 00:55:11,400
We would be showing

1455
00:55:11,400 --> 00:55:13,694
some progress
assemblies to them.

1456
00:55:13,694 --> 00:55:15,329
Say, we're
getting it to you

1457
00:55:15,329 --> 00:55:16,710
as fast as we can
and we're not

1458
00:55:16,710 --> 00:55:18,329
holding something
back that you may

1459
00:55:18,329 --> 00:55:20,489
find useful just
in order to be

1460
00:55:20,489 --> 00:55:24,300
able to get more mileage

1461
00:55:24,300 --> 00:55:26,295
by just giving them
to them and saying,

1462
00:55:26,295 --> 00:55:27,599
we're turning
them into you

1463
00:55:27,599 --> 00:55:29,589
as fast as they're done.

1464
00:55:30,440 --> 00:55:33,180
Yield to your human.

1465
00:55:33,180 --> 00:55:35,654
And that is the staff
recommendation.

1466
00:55:35,654 --> 00:55:37,739
The other issues
should be aware

1467
00:55:37,739 --> 00:55:39,780
of approximately
one month ago,

1468
00:55:39,780 --> 00:55:40,979
the director myself met

1469
00:55:40,979 --> 00:55:43,260
with the various
interest groups and

1470
00:55:43,260 --> 00:55:44,640
the technical committee
involved with

1471
00:55:44,640 --> 00:55:47,969
this project to consider
the summary report.

1472
00:55:47,969 --> 00:55:49,844
You will recall that

1473
00:55:49,844 --> 00:55:52,739
the intention and the
department has been to

1474
00:55:52,739 --> 00:55:54,449
summarize the results from

1475
00:55:54,449 --> 00:55:55,679
all three data gathering

1476
00:55:55,679 --> 00:55:58,950
and analysis efforts
into a very succinct,

1477
00:55:58,950 --> 00:56:02,430
policy-oriented
summary report that

1478
00:56:02,430 --> 00:56:03,749
would identify both water

1479
00:56:03,749 --> 00:56:05,774
policy implications
arising

1480
00:56:05,774 --> 00:56:07,934
from these
research efforts

1481
00:56:07,934 --> 00:56:09,660
and working closely with

1482
00:56:09,660 --> 00:56:11,339
a joint commission
legislative

1483
00:56:11,339 --> 00:56:13,665
Steering Committee
in that report,

1484
00:56:13,665 --> 00:56:15,539
identify various
options that

1485
00:56:15,539 --> 00:56:17,100
are available both to

1486
00:56:17,100 --> 00:56:18,929
the legislature
and the commission

1487
00:56:18,929 --> 00:56:21,629
to respond to
these issues.

1488
00:56:21,629 --> 00:56:24,150
Again, a concern
has been how

1489
00:56:24,150 --> 00:56:26,220
quickly could that
report be produced?

1490
00:56:26,220 --> 00:56:27,539
To what degree could

1491
00:56:27,539 --> 00:56:28,859
the departments of
agriculture and

1492
00:56:28,859 --> 00:56:31,499
forestry participate
and assist

1493
00:56:31,499 --> 00:56:32,999
the department
in getting a, a,

1494
00:56:32,999 --> 00:56:34,710
a document in front

1495
00:56:34,710 --> 00:56:36,255
of particularly the
steering committee,

1496
00:56:36,255 --> 00:56:37,530
and then back to
the Commission

1497
00:56:37,530 --> 00:56:39,045
for it's June meeting,

1498
00:56:39,045 --> 00:56:42,119
departments of forestry
and agriculture for

1499
00:56:42,119 --> 00:56:43,589
creed to make that work

1500
00:56:43,589 --> 00:56:45,794
a high priority during
the month of May.

1501
00:56:45,794 --> 00:56:47,730
So what is our intention?

1502
00:56:47,730 --> 00:56:50,910
That following the
next meeting of

1503
00:56:50,910 --> 00:56:51,960
the steering
committee where the

1504
00:56:51,960 --> 00:56:53,130
principal investigators

1505
00:56:53,130 --> 00:56:55,080
will highlight
their findings,

1506
00:56:55,080 --> 00:56:57,945
that we would then
work on a set of

1507
00:56:57,945 --> 00:57:00,675
policy implications
and recommendations

1508
00:57:00,675 --> 00:57:03,939
arising from last
year's work.

1509
00:57:05,060 --> 00:57:07,619
So there's nothing
that you need from us.

1510
00:57:07,619 --> 00:57:09,149
I don't know. So there's

1511
00:57:09,149 --> 00:57:10,394
no action at this point.

1512
00:57:10,394 --> 00:57:11,565
I'm just making you aware

1513
00:57:11,565 --> 00:57:13,034
of where we are
in the process.

1514
00:57:13,034 --> 00:57:14,700
Next Steering Committee

1515
00:57:14,700 --> 00:57:16,604
preceding the
commission meeting,

1516
00:57:16,604 --> 00:57:18,659
what I hope Lynn is
actually to work with you

1517
00:57:18,659 --> 00:57:20,955
and Susan to
schedule that today.

1518
00:57:20,955 --> 00:57:23,114
It has a date
hasn't been said.

1519
00:57:23,114 --> 00:57:25,169
Well, we'd we'd
want to do because

1520
00:57:25,169 --> 00:57:27,165
the commission
meeting is June 14th.

1521
00:57:27,165 --> 00:57:28,409
Right. We want to have it

1522
00:57:28,409 --> 00:57:32,310
actually probably the
third week in May.

1523
00:57:32,310 --> 00:57:34,335
I mean, it would
be fairly soon,

1524
00:57:34,335 --> 00:57:36,419
not much later than that.

1525
00:57:36,419 --> 00:57:42,839
Because the the only
other thing is that

1526
00:57:42,839 --> 00:57:46,319
we still plan on
having the tasks to

1527
00:57:46,319 --> 00:57:48,719
report out to
the legislature

1528
00:57:48,719 --> 00:57:49,859
by the 10th of May.

1529
00:57:49,859 --> 00:57:54,329
So one other issue

1530
00:57:54,329 --> 00:57:56,039
just it'd be helpful
to get some direction

1531
00:57:56,039 --> 00:57:57,630
from the commission given

1532
00:57:57,630 --> 00:57:59,039
the level of debate
currently in

1533
00:57:59,039 --> 00:58:03,165
the legislature on
farm enforce policy.

1534
00:58:03,165 --> 00:58:05,100
We do want to try and be

1535
00:58:05,100 --> 00:58:07,380
strategic and when
these policies,

1536
00:58:07,380 --> 00:58:08,609
policy recommendations

1537
00:58:08,609 --> 00:58:10,050
might be made available.

1538
00:58:10,050 --> 00:58:11,699
So the committee may want

1539
00:58:11,699 --> 00:58:14,129
to consider looking at

1540
00:58:14,129 --> 00:58:16,619
the draft report
in June and

1541
00:58:16,619 --> 00:58:18,630
recommending we
delay submission

1542
00:58:18,630 --> 00:58:20,504
to the legislature on it.

1543
00:58:20,504 --> 00:58:22,889
Let me just comment that I

1544
00:58:22,889 --> 00:58:24,780
really think that
we when we sat down

1545
00:58:24,780 --> 00:58:26,009
with the technical
committee and

1546
00:58:26,009 --> 00:58:27,659
decided that the
earliest that

1547
00:58:27,659 --> 00:58:30,300
we could produce the
policy options report

1548
00:58:30,300 --> 00:58:31,230
was in time for

1549
00:58:31,230 --> 00:58:33,194
the commission's
June 14th meeting.

1550
00:58:33,194 --> 00:58:34,379
We acknowledged that

1551
00:58:34,379 --> 00:58:35,429
we weren't going
to be able to

1552
00:58:35,429 --> 00:58:37,980
make that available
to the legislature.

1553
00:58:37,980 --> 00:58:40,259
I mean, the legislative
session is very

1554
00:58:40,259 --> 00:58:43,379
likely to come to a
close by July 1st.

1555
00:58:43,379 --> 00:58:44,655
I really think so.

1556
00:58:44,655 --> 00:58:46,410
So that I don't

1557
00:58:46,410 --> 00:58:48,239
really think
that's the I'm not

1558
00:58:48,239 --> 00:58:49,890
that isn't really
the question

1559
00:58:49,890 --> 00:58:51,899
that I think that we made.

1560
00:58:51,899 --> 00:58:53,340
We want to let
the commission

1561
00:58:53,340 --> 00:58:54,870
know that we don't
believe that

1562
00:58:54,870 --> 00:58:56,669
it is possible to give

1563
00:58:56,669 --> 00:58:58,620
a policy options documents

1564
00:58:58,620 --> 00:58:59,100
in front of

1565
00:58:59,100 --> 00:59:01,724
the legislature
before adjournment.

1566
00:59:01,724 --> 00:59:04,905
Assuming that you
as a commission.

1567
00:59:04,905 --> 00:59:07,019
Changes be made
to the report

1568
00:59:07,019 --> 00:59:09,090
as a result of your
June 14th meeting,

1569
00:59:09,090 --> 00:59:10,259
then we would need
to make those

1570
00:59:10,259 --> 00:59:12,449
changes before
they were done.

1571
00:59:12,449 --> 00:59:14,790
We fit that is why

1572
00:59:14,790 --> 00:59:16,770
we felt that it was
important to move

1573
00:59:16,770 --> 00:59:18,374
ahead with distributing

1574
00:59:18,374 --> 00:59:20,820
the three prime contractor

1575
00:59:20,820 --> 00:59:21,959
reports ahead of that.

1576
00:59:21,959 --> 00:59:23,640
So the legislature,
do we get completed

1577
00:59:23,640 --> 00:59:25,635
a product and if
they wanted to,

1578
00:59:25,635 --> 00:59:26,969
could draw on
the executive

1579
00:59:26,969 --> 00:59:28,109
summaries and data in

1580
00:59:28,109 --> 00:59:31,695
those reports.
That's unfortunate.

1581
00:59:31,695 --> 00:59:33,329
I mean, I think
we all wanted to

1582
00:59:33,329 --> 00:59:35,039
work towards a
situation where we

1583
00:59:35,039 --> 00:59:37,020
could have the policy
options document

1584
00:59:37,020 --> 00:59:38,039
in front of the
legislature

1585
00:59:38,039 --> 00:59:39,060
before they adjourned.

1586
00:59:39,060 --> 00:59:41,249
And I just I don't
think that's practical.

1587
00:59:41,249 --> 00:59:43,169
I spent I spent some
time talking with

1588
00:59:43,169 --> 00:59:44,220
both Ted Lawrence and in

1589
00:59:44,220 --> 00:59:45,510
Department of Agriculture.

1590
00:59:45,510 --> 00:59:49,400
And they and they
felt pretty strongly

1591
00:59:49,400 --> 00:59:51,530
that to try to rush

1592
00:59:51,530 --> 00:59:53,989
something that policy
options report for,

1593
00:59:53,989 --> 00:59:55,955
say, a mid May completion

1594
00:59:55,955 --> 00:59:57,469
was going to
result in document

1595
00:59:57,469 --> 00:59:59,060
that wasn't well
thought out and in

1596
00:59:59,060 --> 01:00:01,234
the end wasn't going
to be that useful.

1597
01:00:01,234 --> 01:00:03,319
So I mean, I also

1598
01:00:03,319 --> 01:00:05,389
think that given that
the policy options

1599
01:00:05,389 --> 01:00:06,559
on the secondary lands

1600
01:00:06,559 --> 01:00:10,310
debate have been
introduced in both leaders

1601
01:00:10,310 --> 01:00:13,759
of both branches
of the legislature

1602
01:00:13,759 --> 01:00:15,439
say there may not
be an action on

1603
01:00:15,439 --> 01:00:17,539
that. In this session.

1604
01:00:17,539 --> 01:00:19,850
I think it's unrealistic
for us to expect

1605
01:00:19,850 --> 01:00:22,399
you to assume that

1606
01:00:22,399 --> 01:00:23,659
even if we got something

1607
01:00:23,659 --> 01:00:25,054
here that it
would be timely,

1608
01:00:25,054 --> 01:00:26,734
there's the possibility of

1609
01:00:26,734 --> 01:00:28,220
interim committees and all

1610
01:00:28,220 --> 01:00:29,389
that to deal
with this issue.

1611
01:00:29,389 --> 01:00:31,800
So we have done
the best we can.

1612
01:00:31,800 --> 01:00:33,030
I think we all
know it's a less

1613
01:00:33,030 --> 01:00:34,980
than optimal situation.

1614
01:00:34,980 --> 01:00:37,739
And I feel good that
and having gotten

1615
01:00:37,739 --> 01:00:40,259
them these reports
in a timely manner,

1616
01:00:40,259 --> 01:00:41,894
if they want to act

1617
01:00:41,894 --> 01:00:45,849
quickly, they can do that.

1618
01:00:46,220 --> 01:00:48,359
They haven't we've given

1619
01:00:48,359 --> 01:00:50,439
them a choice as well.

1620
01:00:50,690 --> 01:00:51,900
Okay.

1621
01:00:51,900 --> 01:00:53,520
Do you need any
motion as far

1622
01:00:53,520 --> 01:00:56,310
as sending this report

1623
01:00:56,310 --> 01:00:58,919
on the legislature in

1624
01:00:58,919 --> 01:01:00,419
a cover letter or
is that I don't

1625
01:01:00,419 --> 01:01:02,354
think you need to take
formal action now.

1626
01:01:02,354 --> 01:01:04,839
We have that
direction. Sorry.

1627
01:01:05,570 --> 01:01:07,830
I just got a report

1628
01:01:07,830 --> 01:01:12,270
from that guy's
name yesterday,

1629
01:01:12,270 --> 01:01:15,360
which was his real name,

1630
01:01:15,360 --> 01:01:18,209
alter ego anyway, Dr.
secondary Lane, dr.

1631
01:01:18,209 --> 01:01:21,879
Second steady part
because they're barking.

1632
01:01:23,300 --> 01:01:26,559
That's a fast time. True?

1633
01:01:26,750 --> 01:01:29,264
Is because okay.

1634
01:01:29,264 --> 01:01:30,029
He's going to pick him

1635
01:01:30,029 --> 01:01:31,259
up and he doesn't know how

1636
01:01:31,259 --> 01:01:32,099
you'll feel as far

1637
01:01:32,099 --> 01:01:33,929
as telling the
commission meeting.

1638
01:01:33,929 --> 01:01:36,540
But Ginny is headed
back already to

1639
01:01:36,540 --> 01:01:39,899
her shower and get

1640
01:01:39,899 --> 01:01:42,345
here and she should be
here by about 10:15.

1641
01:01:42,345 --> 01:01:46,260
So in the interests
of both of them

1642
01:01:46,260 --> 01:01:47,250
prime being here and

1643
01:01:47,250 --> 01:01:48,029
we would hope I'm going to

1644
01:01:48,029 --> 01:01:49,860
put off the
transportation AND rule,

1645
01:01:49,860 --> 01:01:51,104
but let's go ahead
and head with

1646
01:01:51,104 --> 01:01:53,650
John Kelly's presentation.

1647
01:02:03,070 --> 01:02:05,029
Mr. Chairman,
for the record,

1648
01:02:05,029 --> 01:02:05,900
my name is John Kelly.

1649
01:02:05,900 --> 01:02:07,009
I'm project manager for

1650
01:02:07,009 --> 01:02:08,180
the departments urban

1651
01:02:08,180 --> 01:02:10,099
growth management study.

1652
01:02:10,099 --> 01:02:12,604
I want to cover for

1653
01:02:12,604 --> 01:02:15,320
matters in my
presentation to you,

1654
01:02:15,320 --> 01:02:16,399
talk a little bit

1655
01:02:16,399 --> 01:02:20,070
about the governor's
symposium.

1656
01:02:20,440 --> 01:02:24,619
Obtain your approval of

1657
01:02:24,619 --> 01:02:26,119
the outline for

1658
01:02:26,119 --> 01:02:29,369
the departments
summary steady report.

1659
01:02:29,710 --> 01:02:33,179
Your approval of approach.

1660
01:02:33,760 --> 01:02:36,439
The third item
would be due to

1661
01:02:36,439 --> 01:02:38,699
obtain the commission's
approval of

1662
01:02:38,699 --> 01:02:40,530
the proposed approach
for following

1663
01:02:40,530 --> 01:02:43,169
up on study results.

1664
01:02:43,169 --> 01:02:46,949
And finally, to
go over with you

1665
01:02:46,949 --> 01:02:50,295
the findings of the report

1666
01:02:50,295 --> 01:02:52,860
on one of the three
major subjects,

1667
01:02:52,860 --> 01:02:54,089
the subject of
development outside

1668
01:02:54,089 --> 01:02:57,119
urban growth boundary
on the Symposium,

1669
01:02:57,119 --> 01:03:00,839
which occurred month
ago today, Carol,

1670
01:03:00,839 --> 01:03:02,219
I think is handed
out to you

1671
01:03:02,219 --> 01:03:04,500
a copy of the
what we call the

1672
01:03:04,500 --> 01:03:06,510
follow-up report that is

1673
01:03:06,510 --> 01:03:08,129
being mailed today and

1674
01:03:08,129 --> 01:03:09,480
tomorrow and probably on

1675
01:03:09,480 --> 01:03:12,630
Monday to all symposium
participants,

1676
01:03:12,630 --> 01:03:14,400
members of the board, of

1677
01:03:14,400 --> 01:03:16,485
the co-sponsoring
entities,

1678
01:03:16,485 --> 01:03:19,124
and members of
the legislature.

1679
01:03:19,124 --> 01:03:23,115
Feeling pretty pleased
about the symposium.

1680
01:03:23,115 --> 01:03:26,129
We set out to
basically a coke,

1681
01:03:26,129 --> 01:03:28,770
tried to cultivate a
receptive audience for

1682
01:03:28,770 --> 01:03:31,500
the findings and
recommendations

1683
01:03:31,500 --> 01:03:33,000
of the growth
management steady.

1684
01:03:33,000 --> 01:03:34,140
I think we ended up doing

1685
01:03:34,140 --> 01:03:35,880
quite a bit
more than that.

1686
01:03:35,880 --> 01:03:38,549
I think we came
out of it not

1687
01:03:38,549 --> 01:03:40,740
only having cultivated
or receptive audience,

1688
01:03:40,740 --> 01:03:45,015
but also having
successfully

1689
01:03:45,015 --> 01:03:46,379
drawn that audience from

1690
01:03:46,379 --> 01:03:48,360
communities
across the state,

1691
01:03:48,360 --> 01:03:51,104
we had over 300
participants.

1692
01:03:51,104 --> 01:03:53,519
I think the
outcome is that we

1693
01:03:53,519 --> 01:03:55,469
now have in place what

1694
01:03:55,469 --> 01:03:57,630
can work as a network

1695
01:03:57,630 --> 01:04:00,660
for soliciting and
obtaining support for,

1696
01:04:00,660 --> 01:04:04,410
say, recommendations
at key junctures.

1697
01:04:04,410 --> 01:04:07,274
I think I know for
a fact that we,

1698
01:04:07,274 --> 01:04:09,915
we spawned some local,

1699
01:04:09,915 --> 01:04:12,449
at least the
germination of some

1700
01:04:12,449 --> 01:04:14,340
local live ability
initiatives

1701
01:04:14,340 --> 01:04:16,485
and communities
around the state.

1702
01:04:16,485 --> 01:04:20,219
The symposium provided
an opportunity

1703
01:04:20,219 --> 01:04:21,390
for Governor Roberts to

1704
01:04:21,390 --> 01:04:26,759
make remarks that
serve to reinforce.

1705
01:04:26,759 --> 01:04:28,349
Heard administration's

1706
01:04:28,349 --> 01:04:29,609
commitment deliverability

1707
01:04:29,609 --> 01:04:33,359
as one of its three
so-called pillars.

1708
01:04:33,359 --> 01:04:35,400
And also to
make statements

1709
01:04:35,400 --> 01:04:36,840
that were pretty
impressive in

1710
01:04:36,840 --> 01:04:38,369
terms of the strength of

1711
01:04:38,369 --> 01:04:39,239
her endorsement of

1712
01:04:39,239 --> 01:04:40,965
the statewide
planning program.

1713
01:04:40,965 --> 01:04:44,429
Finally, I think
this symposium,

1714
01:04:44,429 --> 01:04:45,569
because of the
involvement of

1715
01:04:45,569 --> 01:04:47,565
other state
agency directors,

1716
01:04:47,565 --> 01:04:51,089
helped build or reinforce

1717
01:04:51,089 --> 01:04:52,229
existing bridges
with other

1718
01:04:52,229 --> 01:04:53,369
state agencies and

1719
01:04:53,369 --> 01:04:54,840
establish the
department and

1720
01:04:54,840 --> 01:04:57,149
the commission in
leadership roles

1721
01:04:57,149 --> 01:04:59,710
on the issue of liability.

1722
01:05:00,560 --> 01:05:02,759
Another aspect of it that

1723
01:05:02,759 --> 01:05:04,784
was kind of pleasing,

1724
01:05:04,784 --> 01:05:06,329
I turned out to
be in effect,

1725
01:05:06,329 --> 01:05:09,119
except for the commitment
of staff time,

1726
01:05:09,119 --> 01:05:10,769
a fact-free to

1727
01:05:10,769 --> 01:05:12,269
the department and
the commission.

1728
01:05:12,269 --> 01:05:15,749
Because of sponsorships
that we aligned up in

1729
01:05:15,749 --> 01:05:18,029
the over

1730
01:05:18,029 --> 01:05:21,660
projection participation
registration,

1731
01:05:21,660 --> 01:05:25,604
we ended, ended up
spending much of the

1732
01:05:25,604 --> 01:05:27,360
$4,000 at all that we had

1733
01:05:27,360 --> 01:05:30,404
budgeted for it,
weighted go.

1734
01:05:30,404 --> 01:05:33,929
Changing villager.
Ever tell you

1735
01:05:33,929 --> 01:05:38,430
Goldstar report outline is

1736
01:05:38,430 --> 01:05:39,945
in the staff report.

1737
01:05:39,945 --> 01:05:42,029
This is the proposed
outline for

1738
01:05:42,029 --> 01:05:43,439
the urban growth

1739
01:05:43,439 --> 01:05:45,540
management study
summary report

1740
01:05:45,540 --> 01:05:47,979
that the department
would issue.

1741
01:05:51,440 --> 01:05:53,760
And we would like to

1742
01:05:53,760 --> 01:05:55,650
obtain your
approval of that.

1743
01:05:55,650 --> 01:05:57,990
There are three features

1744
01:05:57,990 --> 01:05:58,679
that I would just like to

1745
01:05:58,679 --> 01:06:00,195
call your attention to.

1746
01:06:00,195 --> 01:06:02,160
One is that it divides

1747
01:06:02,160 --> 01:06:05,580
the findings into
three sections.

1748
01:06:05,580 --> 01:06:08,324
Three principal
subject categories.

1749
01:06:08,324 --> 01:06:10,079
The first being
development outside of and

1750
01:06:10,079 --> 01:06:11,159
growth boundaries
and urban

1751
01:06:11,159 --> 01:06:12,749
growth boundary expansion.

1752
01:06:12,749 --> 01:06:14,459
The second major
category being

1753
01:06:14,459 --> 01:06:16,620
development inside urban
growth boundaries.

1754
01:06:16,620 --> 01:06:22,424
And the third being
infrastructure funding.

1755
01:06:22,424 --> 01:06:24,959
The third feature that

1756
01:06:24,959 --> 01:06:26,925
I think is worth
noting is that

1757
01:06:26,925 --> 01:06:32,295
the approach is to
array proposals

1758
01:06:32,295 --> 01:06:35,159
for actions to address

1759
01:06:35,159 --> 01:06:37,169
the issues and concerns

1760
01:06:37,169 --> 01:06:38,804
that the study uncovered.

1761
01:06:38,804 --> 01:06:41,010
And that we intend to

1762
01:06:41,010 --> 01:06:43,439
propose to include
proposals that

1763
01:06:43,439 --> 01:06:45,269
came from sources not

1764
01:06:45,269 --> 01:06:48,915
only which include the
consultant reports,

1765
01:06:48,915 --> 01:06:50,699
but also some other
initiatives that

1766
01:06:50,699 --> 01:06:53,009
transportation rural
development process

1767
01:06:53,009 --> 01:06:55,319
divided bill in case it

1768
01:06:55,319 --> 01:06:56,669
doesn't get enacted

1769
01:06:56,669 --> 01:06:58,589
this session,
the home-built,

1770
01:06:58,589 --> 01:07:00,090
there's 1,000
friends report on

1771
01:07:00,090 --> 01:07:02,115
the metro Housing Rule

1772
01:07:02,115 --> 01:07:06,225
and other sources
of ideas that

1773
01:07:06,225 --> 01:07:09,300
merit being included among

1774
01:07:09,300 --> 01:07:11,700
the process that
we will propose

1775
01:07:11,700 --> 01:07:14,069
for follow up
efforts to translate

1776
01:07:14,069 --> 01:07:17,399
these into into
specific actions.

1777
01:07:17,399 --> 01:07:19,859
Why don't I just go on
and talk to you about

1778
01:07:19,859 --> 01:07:22,035
the process and
then pause.

1779
01:07:22,035 --> 01:07:24,060
That may be a juncture
you want to take

1780
01:07:24,060 --> 01:07:28,484
to take advantage
of to take action.

1781
01:07:28,484 --> 01:07:31,499
And I'll talk about
the proposed process

1782
01:07:31,499 --> 01:07:33,389
before you go on
just to see if

1783
01:07:33,389 --> 01:07:35,010
everybody's on the
same wavelength.

1784
01:07:35,010 --> 01:07:36,930
Does everybody have

1785
01:07:36,930 --> 01:07:38,279
any immediate questions or

1786
01:07:38,279 --> 01:07:39,899
problems with
this outline that

1787
01:07:39,899 --> 01:07:42,960
John's laid out here?

1788
01:07:42,960 --> 01:07:48,959
Okay. That outlined
by the way,

1789
01:07:48,959 --> 01:07:50,160
it was suggested by

1790
01:07:50,160 --> 01:07:52,050
an advisory
panel that we've

1791
01:07:52,050 --> 01:07:54,565
put together for
our study report,

1792
01:07:54,565 --> 01:07:58,760
which consists of
Commissioners blaster and

1793
01:07:58,760 --> 01:08:00,649
Saxton Jan
trials from gene

1794
01:08:00,649 --> 01:08:01,699
here Jim buys a product

1795
01:08:01,699 --> 01:08:02,629
from crack miss county,

1796
01:08:02,629 --> 01:08:05,329
Rodney Bon, Tom
Van der sand,

1797
01:08:05,329 --> 01:08:06,529
and a crack them
as county and

1798
01:08:06,529 --> 01:08:08,014
Ethan Seltzer of metro.

1799
01:08:08,014 --> 01:08:10,369
That same committee
also suggested

1800
01:08:10,369 --> 01:08:12,350
the basic process that
we're proposing to

1801
01:08:12,350 --> 01:08:15,365
you for following up
on study results.

1802
01:08:15,365 --> 01:08:19,429
The most important
element of that process

1803
01:08:19,429 --> 01:08:22,984
is the creation of
three task groups.

1804
01:08:22,984 --> 01:08:24,619
They would correspond to

1805
01:08:24,619 --> 01:08:27,109
the three principal
subject categories

1806
01:08:27,109 --> 01:08:28,489
in the report outline.

1807
01:08:28,489 --> 01:08:29,869
Again, those
being development

1808
01:08:29,869 --> 01:08:31,445
outside urban
growth boundaries,

1809
01:08:31,445 --> 01:08:34,189
boundary expansion,
development inside

1810
01:08:34,189 --> 01:08:35,554
urban growth boundaries

1811
01:08:35,554 --> 01:08:37,749
and infrastructure
funding.

1812
01:08:37,749 --> 01:08:41,609
We would assemble
these task groups

1813
01:08:41,609 --> 01:08:44,609
to contain
representation of

1814
01:08:44,609 --> 01:08:46,290
a range of interests,

1815
01:08:46,290 --> 01:08:47,760
public and private sector,

1816
01:08:47,760 --> 01:08:50,609
local and state
government in and

1817
01:08:50,609 --> 01:08:52,679
obtain as much
geographic diversity

1818
01:08:52,679 --> 01:08:54,540
as we could as well.

1819
01:08:54,540 --> 01:08:58,709
The model here is
the roundtable group

1820
01:08:58,709 --> 01:08:59,940
that emerged into kind of

1821
01:08:59,940 --> 01:09:01,289
a work group I understand

1822
01:09:01,289 --> 01:09:02,789
on the
transportation rule.

1823
01:09:02,789 --> 01:09:04,859
And what we're talking
about is in effect,

1824
01:09:04,859 --> 01:09:06,089
a consensus group to

1825
01:09:06,089 --> 01:09:08,280
develop specific
proposals.

1826
01:09:08,280 --> 01:09:10,830
These task groups would

1827
01:09:10,830 --> 01:09:16,380
be charged with
translating proposals

1828
01:09:16,380 --> 01:09:20,010
that are listed in
the study report into

1829
01:09:20,010 --> 01:09:22,515
specific actions to
take the form of

1830
01:09:22,515 --> 01:09:24,794
either proposed

1831
01:09:24,794 --> 01:09:26,714
administrative
rule amendments,

1832
01:09:26,714 --> 01:09:28,740
proposed amendments to

1833
01:09:28,740 --> 01:09:30,975
the statewide
planning goals,

1834
01:09:30,975 --> 01:09:32,879
or proposed legislation.

1835
01:09:32,879 --> 01:09:35,265
They would do their
work in two phases.

1836
01:09:35,265 --> 01:09:39,435
In phase one, they would
review each issue,

1837
01:09:39,435 --> 01:09:41,685
the proposals that are

1838
01:09:41,685 --> 01:09:44,760
suggested in the
report to address it.

1839
01:09:44,760 --> 01:09:46,740
And they and they would

1840
01:09:46,740 --> 01:09:48,480
make a recommendation on

1841
01:09:48,480 --> 01:09:49,739
the selected approaches to

1842
01:09:49,739 --> 01:09:52,770
the commission,
get its feedback.

1843
01:09:52,770 --> 01:09:54,329
Then in Phase II, they

1844
01:09:54,329 --> 01:09:57,254
would take that
feedback in there.

1845
01:09:57,254 --> 01:09:58,889
Recommendations
and translate

1846
01:09:58,889 --> 01:10:00,825
them into specific
proposals.

1847
01:10:00,825 --> 01:10:03,659
Phase one would
would occur

1848
01:10:03,659 --> 01:10:05,279
between September
of this year in

1849
01:10:05,279 --> 01:10:07,305
December, run
through December.

1850
01:10:07,305 --> 01:10:09,479
Phase two would go

1851
01:10:09,479 --> 01:10:12,254
from January 1992
through July,

1852
01:10:12,254 --> 01:10:14,594
or into July of 1992,

1853
01:10:14,594 --> 01:10:17,039
with the aim that

1854
01:10:17,039 --> 01:10:20,549
beginning in July of
1990 to the commission,

1855
01:10:20,549 --> 01:10:22,784
it could begin hearings

1856
01:10:22,784 --> 01:10:25,454
on proposed
administrative rules

1857
01:10:25,454 --> 01:10:27,045
or proposed goal
amendments.

1858
01:10:27,045 --> 01:10:28,889
And then the
legislative proposals

1859
01:10:28,889 --> 01:10:30,345
would would

1860
01:10:30,345 --> 01:10:33,345
be channeled

1861
01:10:33,345 --> 01:10:36,840
into the bill
development process

1862
01:10:36,840 --> 01:10:38,920
that begins in August.

1863
01:10:39,010 --> 01:10:44,644
We're suggesting
that the Commission

1864
01:10:44,644 --> 01:10:46,099
at the next meeting

1865
01:10:46,099 --> 01:10:48,360
of the Commission,
this commission,

1866
01:10:48,790 --> 01:10:51,260
that we come back to

1867
01:10:51,260 --> 01:10:53,719
the Commission and
obtain its review of

1868
01:10:53,719 --> 01:10:58,700
a steady report
that we seek from

1869
01:10:58,700 --> 01:10:59,600
the commission approval to

1870
01:10:59,600 --> 01:11:00,589
issue that report for

1871
01:11:00,589 --> 01:11:02,509
public distribution
and that

1872
01:11:02,509 --> 01:11:03,710
at it's August meeting,

1873
01:11:03,710 --> 01:11:05,539
the commission conducted
public hearing on

1874
01:11:05,539 --> 01:11:09,500
the study on the
study report and

1875
01:11:09,500 --> 01:11:14,719
issue instructions
to the department

1876
01:11:14,719 --> 01:11:17,285
for guidance to
the task groups.

1877
01:11:17,285 --> 01:11:20,540
One way in which our
proposal I'm now

1878
01:11:20,540 --> 01:11:23,744
making to you departs from

1879
01:11:23,744 --> 01:11:26,669
what the staff report

1880
01:11:26,669 --> 01:11:28,770
says is that we
would propose that

1881
01:11:28,770 --> 01:11:32,040
the report that the
Commission approves for

1882
01:11:32,040 --> 01:11:35,564
distribution in June
be the final report,

1883
01:11:35,564 --> 01:11:37,334
not a draft report.

1884
01:11:37,334 --> 01:11:41,295
And that the instructions

1885
01:11:41,295 --> 01:11:44,819
that the Commission
gives us at

1886
01:11:44,819 --> 01:11:47,639
the conclusion of
the August hearing

1887
01:11:47,639 --> 01:11:49,620
take the form of written
instructions and

1888
01:11:49,620 --> 01:11:50,909
would not necessarily have

1889
01:11:50,909 --> 01:11:51,959
to be translated into

1890
01:11:51,959 --> 01:11:54,869
amendments to the to
the study report,

1891
01:11:54,869 --> 01:11:56,759
and it could be translated

1892
01:11:56,759 --> 01:11:59,039
into instructions
to the task groups.

1893
01:11:59,039 --> 01:12:00,869
The idea is just
to get closure on

1894
01:12:00,869 --> 01:12:04,149
the report and get
it wrapped up.

1895
01:12:04,630 --> 01:12:08,119
That's basically what we

1896
01:12:08,119 --> 01:12:09,650
have in mind
for a process,

1897
01:12:09,650 --> 01:12:11,899
you can tell
that our aim is

1898
01:12:11,899 --> 01:12:15,199
to draw to a close

1899
01:12:15,199 --> 01:12:16,520
the steady process and

1900
01:12:16,520 --> 01:12:18,679
moved into a process where

1901
01:12:18,679 --> 01:12:22,400
we actually do things
by way of rulemaking,

1902
01:12:22,400 --> 01:12:25,049
goal amendment
or legislation.

1903
01:12:25,240 --> 01:12:29,120
I assume one of
your hopes are

1904
01:12:29,120 --> 01:12:31,430
expectations is that as

1905
01:12:31,430 --> 01:12:32,794
we form these
three groups,

1906
01:12:32,794 --> 01:12:35,030
that there will be a
commissioner that would

1907
01:12:35,030 --> 01:12:37,940
be more that would

1908
01:12:37,940 --> 01:12:40,339
be willing to sit on
those committees?

1909
01:12:40,339 --> 01:12:41,989
Well, absolutely.

1910
01:12:41,989 --> 01:12:44,510
I think that is certainly

1911
01:12:44,510 --> 01:12:48,049
an important way that
we can attract to

1912
01:12:48,049 --> 01:12:49,249
participation that kind of

1913
01:12:49,249 --> 01:12:50,630
talent from outside

1914
01:12:50,630 --> 01:12:52,100
the convention
that we want

1915
01:12:52,100 --> 01:12:54,769
in that certainly sends
a very strong signal.

1916
01:12:54,769 --> 01:12:56,570
So I just put that as

1917
01:12:56,570 --> 01:12:58,009
an early warning that
Commissioners this

1918
01:12:58,009 --> 01:12:59,780
kind of think about what

1919
01:12:59,780 --> 01:13:00,920
they might want
to volunteer

1920
01:13:00,920 --> 01:13:07,230
for a few months here
you think about it.

1921
01:13:08,050 --> 01:13:09,919
Good job.

1922
01:13:09,919 --> 01:13:11,944
Okay, That sounds
agreeable to you.

1923
01:13:11,944 --> 01:13:15,739
Good. Okay. Then what

1924
01:13:15,739 --> 01:13:17,929
we thought we
would do is cover

1925
01:13:17,929 --> 01:13:20,420
today in by way of
presentation to you

1926
01:13:20,420 --> 01:13:22,520
the contents of
the first of

1927
01:13:22,520 --> 01:13:24,875
the three principal
report sections.

1928
01:13:24,875 --> 01:13:26,419
The one on
development outside

1929
01:13:26,419 --> 01:13:28,159
urban growth boundaries in

1930
01:13:28,159 --> 01:13:30,025
urban growth
boundary expansion.

1931
01:13:30,025 --> 01:13:32,010
Preliminary draft
of that section of

1932
01:13:32,010 --> 01:13:35,084
the report was attached
to the staff report.

1933
01:13:35,084 --> 01:13:40,589
And I'm just going to
take the remaining time

1934
01:13:40,589 --> 01:13:42,510
to go through
and summarize

1935
01:13:42,510 --> 01:13:44,789
the important findings and

1936
01:13:44,789 --> 01:13:47,174
proposals in that section.

1937
01:13:47,174 --> 01:13:50,159
Can I get some
sense from you of

1938
01:13:50,159 --> 01:13:51,330
how much time
you would like

1939
01:13:51,330 --> 01:13:52,994
to dedicate to this?

1940
01:13:52,994 --> 01:13:59,709
Well, we're stalling here.

1941
01:13:59,930 --> 01:14:04,229
No disrespect what you

1942
01:14:04,229 --> 01:14:05,789
were trying to wait for

1943
01:14:05,789 --> 01:14:07,770
time or at least
Ginny to get back.

1944
01:14:07,770 --> 01:14:10,365
So take your time is
what you're telling me.

1945
01:14:10,365 --> 01:14:12,690
That she'd be
backed by things

1946
01:14:12,690 --> 01:14:16,229
like 20 min or so before.

1947
01:14:16,229 --> 01:14:17,879
We'll take a
break about then.

1948
01:14:17,879 --> 01:14:20,954
And so should I try to
conclude by in 20 min?

1949
01:14:20,954 --> 01:14:23,055
Well, is that a reasonable
amount of time?

1950
01:14:23,055 --> 01:14:24,690
Yeah. It's just
it's a matter of

1951
01:14:24,690 --> 01:14:27,269
how much detail I go
into my questions.

1952
01:14:27,269 --> 01:14:29,820
We asked him about

1953
01:14:29,820 --> 01:14:31,140
20 min then
something like that.

1954
01:14:31,140 --> 01:14:37,064
Yeah. Okay. What I
would like to do

1955
01:14:37,064 --> 01:14:39,359
is talk about the
two issues which I

1956
01:14:39,359 --> 01:14:41,520
consider the
most important

1957
01:14:41,520 --> 01:14:43,529
among the four that this
section talks about.

1958
01:14:43,529 --> 01:14:45,149
Those two issues
are, number one,

1959
01:14:45,149 --> 01:14:46,769
the constraints
on urban growth,

1960
01:14:46,769 --> 01:14:48,150
boundary expansion,

1961
01:14:48,150 --> 01:14:49,214
which are caused by

1962
01:14:49,214 --> 01:14:50,490
development that's
occurring on

1963
01:14:50,490 --> 01:14:54,195
the urban fringe and
the interrelationships.

1964
01:14:54,195 --> 01:14:55,259
The second issue being

1965
01:14:55,259 --> 01:14:57,134
the interrelationships
between

1966
01:14:57,134 --> 01:14:59,009
the extra urban
development

1967
01:14:59,009 --> 01:15:00,179
in an urban region and

1968
01:15:00,179 --> 01:15:01,410
the development
that occurs

1969
01:15:01,410 --> 01:15:03,164
inside its urban
growth boundaries.

1970
01:15:03,164 --> 01:15:04,650
Let me give you
to start with

1971
01:15:04,650 --> 01:15:06,299
some definitions.

1972
01:15:06,299 --> 01:15:08,249
By urban region, I mean

1973
01:15:08,249 --> 01:15:10,965
a city in the
area around it,

1974
01:15:10,965 --> 01:15:12,810
which along with the city,

1975
01:15:12,810 --> 01:15:14,279
operates as a single

1976
01:15:14,279 --> 01:15:15,929
housing and labor market.

1977
01:15:15,929 --> 01:15:17,580
So it's the city,

1978
01:15:17,580 --> 01:15:19,559
the area within the
urban growth boundary,

1979
01:15:19,559 --> 01:15:20,579
in the area outside

1980
01:15:20,579 --> 01:15:21,795
the urban growth boundary,

1981
01:15:21,795 --> 01:15:23,760
where most of the
people commute or

1982
01:15:23,760 --> 01:15:25,755
many of the people
commute into the city.

1983
01:15:25,755 --> 01:15:27,059
Basically it's
a single labor

1984
01:15:27,059 --> 01:15:29,439
markets, single
housing market.

1985
01:15:29,960 --> 01:15:32,055
By x over an area,

1986
01:15:32,055 --> 01:15:34,574
I'm referring
to the portion

1987
01:15:34,574 --> 01:15:35,790
of the urban region

1988
01:15:35,790 --> 01:15:37,904
outside the urban
growth boundary.

1989
01:15:37,904 --> 01:15:40,064
And then by urban fringe,

1990
01:15:40,064 --> 01:15:42,870
I mean the portion
of an urban region

1991
01:15:42,870 --> 01:15:44,729
immediately
outside but close

1992
01:15:44,729 --> 01:15:46,410
to the urban
growth boundary,

1993
01:15:46,410 --> 01:15:49,379
which the echo
Northwest case study

1994
01:15:49,379 --> 01:15:50,580
is defined as being,

1995
01:15:50,580 --> 01:15:52,110
generally speaking,
within one to

1996
01:15:52,110 --> 01:15:54,299
2 mi of the urban
growth boundary.

1997
01:15:54,299 --> 01:15:56,325
So it's the area
right outside.

1998
01:15:56,325 --> 01:16:00,249
It's a subpart of the
extra urban area.

1999
01:16:00,560 --> 01:16:03,359
Constraints on
EGB expansion

2000
01:16:03,359 --> 01:16:05,025
caused by fringe
development.

2001
01:16:05,025 --> 01:16:08,849
Let me just give you
the basic findings.

2002
01:16:08,849 --> 01:16:11,520
First of all, development
occurring and

2003
01:16:11,520 --> 01:16:15,300
urban in UVB fringe areas

2004
01:16:15,300 --> 01:16:20,235
will conclude seriously
confined options

2005
01:16:20,235 --> 01:16:22,214
for urban growth
boundary expansion.

2006
01:16:22,214 --> 01:16:24,089
When the time comes, we

2007
01:16:24,089 --> 01:16:26,025
found that residential
development,

2008
01:16:26,025 --> 01:16:30,045
looking here at the
four case study areas,

2009
01:16:30,045 --> 01:16:32,174
that residential
development and

2010
01:16:32,174 --> 01:16:34,199
the friend has resulted in

2011
01:16:34,199 --> 01:16:37,769
a low density residential
ring around much or

2012
01:16:37,769 --> 01:16:40,289
all of the urban
growth boundary

2013
01:16:40,289 --> 01:16:43,155
in each of the four
case study areas.

2014
01:16:43,155 --> 01:16:45,795
This development,
in combination

2015
01:16:45,795 --> 01:16:47,310
with pre-existing
development,

2016
01:16:47,310 --> 01:16:48,944
will severely constrained

2017
01:16:48,944 --> 01:16:50,759
urban growth
boundary expansion.

2018
01:16:50,759 --> 01:16:52,020
This is so even

2019
01:16:52,020 --> 01:16:54,570
though the amount
of development is

2020
01:16:54,570 --> 01:16:56,445
proportionately small

2021
01:16:56,445 --> 01:16:58,439
compared to total
development,

2022
01:16:58,439 --> 01:17:03,045
and in each urban
region, 5-15%.

2023
01:17:03,045 --> 01:17:07,179
But at the same time
it's occurring.

2024
01:17:07,640 --> 01:17:09,870
It's effect in combination

2025
01:17:09,870 --> 01:17:11,189
with existing
development will

2026
01:17:11,189 --> 01:17:13,560
have this constraining
impact in Bedford,

2027
01:17:13,560 --> 01:17:14,684
e.g.

2028
01:17:14,684 --> 01:17:18,135
during our 1985 to
89 study period,

2029
01:17:18,135 --> 01:17:20,190
there were 49
dwelling units in

2030
01:17:20,190 --> 01:17:25,514
36 new parcels proved
in the urban fringe.

2031
01:17:25,514 --> 01:17:28,034
In 1990, when the city

2032
01:17:28,034 --> 01:17:29,309
of med for it expanded

2033
01:17:29,309 --> 01:17:30,870
its urban growth boundary,

2034
01:17:30,870 --> 01:17:34,590
owners of acreage
home sites in

2035
01:17:34,590 --> 01:17:36,450
the urban fringe
effectively blocked

2036
01:17:36,450 --> 01:17:39,134
expansion into
their areas.

2037
01:17:39,134 --> 01:17:41,759
They do that by

2038
01:17:41,759 --> 01:17:44,009
participation in
the public process

2039
01:17:44,009 --> 01:17:46,199
that that the city and

2040
01:17:46,199 --> 01:17:47,264
county went
through in their

2041
01:17:47,264 --> 01:17:49,019
growth boundary
expansion process.

2042
01:17:49,019 --> 01:17:52,109
They just the you

2043
01:17:52,109 --> 01:17:53,549
have several
consequences of

2044
01:17:53,549 --> 01:17:54,795
development in
the urban fringe.

2045
01:17:54,795 --> 01:17:55,935
One is that you just

2046
01:17:55,935 --> 01:17:57,630
simply have
personalization and

2047
01:17:57,630 --> 01:17:58,829
that makes future
development

2048
01:17:58,829 --> 01:18:01,169
and urban densities
difficult.

2049
01:18:01,169 --> 01:18:04,650
Secondly, you build
in a constituency in

2050
01:18:04,650 --> 01:18:06,150
opposition to urbanization

2051
01:18:06,150 --> 01:18:08,684
of the effected portions.

2052
01:18:08,684 --> 01:18:10,349
But how they
just delivers by

2053
01:18:10,349 --> 01:18:11,639
protesting that the county

2054
01:18:11,639 --> 01:18:13,109
and the cities
chicken down,

2055
01:18:13,109 --> 01:18:15,480
by protesting against
urban growth,

2056
01:18:15,480 --> 01:18:17,610
boundary expansion
into their areas

2057
01:18:17,610 --> 01:18:19,395
in the city and
county chicken down.

2058
01:18:19,395 --> 01:18:20,730
Well, I mean, really

2059
01:18:20,730 --> 01:18:22,215
what it came, they could
have still done it.

2060
01:18:22,215 --> 01:18:23,564
They weren't
legally blocked.

2061
01:18:23,564 --> 01:18:24,630
There wasn't any wasn't a

2062
01:18:24,630 --> 01:18:25,829
court case, that stuff.

2063
01:18:25,829 --> 01:18:27,209
No, there wasn't
a court case.

2064
01:18:27,209 --> 01:18:29,430
It was just advocacy
and participation

2065
01:18:29,430 --> 01:18:30,360
in the development in

2066
01:18:30,360 --> 01:18:31,770
the decision-making
process.

2067
01:18:31,770 --> 01:18:33,540
But it's a little bit
more complex than that

2068
01:18:33,540 --> 01:18:37,590
because if the city the
city and county sure.

2069
01:18:37,590 --> 01:18:38,639
Could go ahead and include

2070
01:18:38,639 --> 01:18:40,349
an area in the UVB.

2071
01:18:40,349 --> 01:18:41,550
But if the ultimate

2072
01:18:41,550 --> 01:18:43,169
intention is to be able to

2073
01:18:43,169 --> 01:18:44,399
then bring that area into

2074
01:18:44,399 --> 01:18:46,395
the city through
annexation.

2075
01:18:46,395 --> 01:18:48,404
The city knows that

2076
01:18:48,404 --> 01:18:51,449
its ability eventually
annex that area is

2077
01:18:51,449 --> 01:18:53,880
almost nil given
existing annexation laws

2078
01:18:53,880 --> 01:18:55,319
so that some of
the difficulty

2079
01:18:55,319 --> 01:18:56,759
that arises, I mean,

2080
01:18:56,759 --> 01:18:58,980
the if they're not gonna

2081
01:18:58,980 --> 01:19:01,290
be able to effectively
use that area

2082
01:19:01,290 --> 01:19:04,605
for for further
development use than

2083
01:19:04,605 --> 01:19:06,840
their incentive to even

2084
01:19:06,840 --> 01:19:09,480
bring it into the UVB
is significantly less.

2085
01:19:09,480 --> 01:19:11,700
And that's part of the
dynamic that goes on.

2086
01:19:11,700 --> 01:19:12,389
Unfortunately,

2087
01:19:12,389 --> 01:19:13,800
it's partly a
function of the fact

2088
01:19:13,800 --> 01:19:15,930
that the annexation
laws or don't,

2089
01:19:15,930 --> 01:19:17,309
don't give
cities assurance

2090
01:19:17,309 --> 01:19:18,330
that they can do something

2091
01:19:18,330 --> 01:19:20,999
once the areas
inside the EGB,

2092
01:19:20,999 --> 01:19:22,830
and they're
concerned about

2093
01:19:22,830 --> 01:19:24,840
what kind of service
mechanisms could really

2094
01:19:24,840 --> 01:19:27,164
be adequately developed
a survey areas

2095
01:19:27,164 --> 01:19:28,949
overall on a
statewide basis,

2096
01:19:28,949 --> 01:19:30,749
I think we can confident

2097
01:19:30,749 --> 01:19:32,850
that this will
have the effect,

2098
01:19:32,850 --> 01:19:34,989
the net effect of

2099
01:19:35,090 --> 01:19:39,629
greater UVB expansion into

2100
01:19:39,629 --> 01:19:41,954
agricultural lands than
would have occurred,

2101
01:19:41,954 --> 01:19:43,334
than would occur
otherwise,

2102
01:19:43,334 --> 01:19:44,579
if there was protection

2103
01:19:44,579 --> 01:19:46,665
of these urban
fringe areas and

2104
01:19:46,665 --> 01:19:48,764
the avoidance of
the constraints

2105
01:19:48,764 --> 01:19:51,700
that fringe
development causes.

2106
01:19:52,310 --> 01:19:55,439
Excuse me, how
does that I don't

2107
01:19:55,439 --> 01:19:57,975
understand how that
logically follows.

2108
01:19:57,975 --> 01:20:00,719
If it stopped on
the fringe area,

2109
01:20:00,719 --> 01:20:03,599
are you saying it's
going to go on past

2110
01:20:03,599 --> 01:20:05,115
that into the Ag lands

2111
01:20:05,115 --> 01:20:06,644
or what are you saying?

2112
01:20:06,644 --> 01:20:08,430
I think it simply

2113
01:20:08,430 --> 01:20:10,844
depends on local
circumstances.

2114
01:20:10,844 --> 01:20:13,289
I think it will in areas

2115
01:20:13,289 --> 01:20:16,050
which perhaps is more

2116
01:20:16,050 --> 01:20:19,304
likely to not go over,
but instead into,

2117
01:20:19,304 --> 01:20:20,759
you see expansions of

2118
01:20:20,759 --> 01:20:21,899
urban growth boundaries in

2119
01:20:21,899 --> 01:20:23,999
other directions
than the directions

2120
01:20:23,999 --> 01:20:26,534
that they might have
gone and had that,

2121
01:20:26,534 --> 01:20:28,439
those constraints
not been there.

2122
01:20:28,439 --> 01:20:30,270
So if there's AG
lens over here,

2123
01:20:30,270 --> 01:20:31,830
they're liable
to move that way

2124
01:20:31,830 --> 01:20:33,059
instead of up here

2125
01:20:33,059 --> 01:20:36,239
where the fringe
growth has occurred.

2126
01:20:36,239 --> 01:20:39,435
That's what
you're assuming.

2127
01:20:39,435 --> 01:20:40,635
Commissioners accidents.

2128
01:20:40,635 --> 01:20:41,429
I just had a question.

2129
01:20:41,429 --> 01:20:46,590
The person who grew
up in front of mine,

2130
01:20:46,590 --> 01:20:48,480
who grew up in California,

2131
01:20:48,480 --> 01:20:50,400
was describing this,

2132
01:20:50,400 --> 01:20:53,039
this example, this
donut around.

2133
01:20:53,039 --> 01:20:56,234
Urban growth area as one,

2134
01:20:56,234 --> 01:20:59,114
and then the ultimate
expansion into

2135
01:20:59,114 --> 01:21:01,649
agricultural areas
and the loss

2136
01:21:01,649 --> 01:21:03,225
of those agricultural
workers.

2137
01:21:03,225 --> 01:21:06,210
As a model that
California's gone through.

2138
01:21:06,210 --> 01:21:07,395
That they've, they've,

2139
01:21:07,395 --> 01:21:08,879
they've been
through it and

2140
01:21:08,879 --> 01:21:10,379
are now paying the price

2141
01:21:10,379 --> 01:21:11,699
for some of
those decisions.

2142
01:21:11,699 --> 01:21:13,560
And I didn't know whether

2143
01:21:13,560 --> 01:21:15,435
it was as part
of this work,

2144
01:21:15,435 --> 01:21:16,650
any of that had been.

2145
01:21:16,650 --> 01:21:18,090
I don't know whether
that's true or not.

2146
01:21:18,090 --> 01:21:19,260
This is just an assertion

2147
01:21:19,260 --> 01:21:21,029
this person was making.

2148
01:21:21,029 --> 01:21:22,950
Has that been looked at

2149
01:21:22,950 --> 01:21:24,209
or is there an
ability to look

2150
01:21:24,209 --> 01:21:25,530
at that and to learn

2151
01:21:25,530 --> 01:21:26,999
from those
lessons perhaps,

2152
01:21:26,999 --> 01:21:30,029
or to use their
use that example

2153
01:21:30,029 --> 01:21:33,524
and making our
policy decisions.

2154
01:21:33,524 --> 01:21:35,684
I certainly think
that an effective way

2155
01:21:35,684 --> 01:21:37,589
of selling proposals for

2156
01:21:37,589 --> 01:21:39,899
strengthening
the program in

2157
01:21:39,899 --> 01:21:42,944
this area is by
reference to California.

2158
01:21:42,944 --> 01:21:47,820
I think that we can take
credit in the state,

2159
01:21:47,820 --> 01:21:49,200
what you're learning
program can take

2160
01:21:49,200 --> 01:21:50,895
credit for the
fact that we don't

2161
01:21:50,895 --> 01:21:52,634
have subdivisions

2162
01:21:52,634 --> 01:21:54,885
out in our
agricultural lands.

2163
01:21:54,885 --> 01:21:56,280
I mean, you don't need to

2164
01:21:56,280 --> 01:21:58,560
conduct a study
to know that

2165
01:21:58,560 --> 01:22:01,169
when you drive from
Portland to Salem or

2166
01:22:01,169 --> 01:22:03,165
from Salem to Eugene

2167
01:22:03,165 --> 01:22:03,840
in the absence of

2168
01:22:03,840 --> 01:22:05,040
the statewide
planning program,

2169
01:22:05,040 --> 01:22:06,239
we would probably see

2170
01:22:06,239 --> 01:22:09,130
remote satellite
subdivisions.

2171
01:22:09,200 --> 01:22:12,059
At the same time.

2172
01:22:12,059 --> 01:22:14,849
We are not getting

2173
01:22:14,849 --> 01:22:19,830
a a strict delineation

2174
01:22:19,830 --> 01:22:21,480
of land use between

2175
01:22:21,480 --> 01:22:25,479
urban areas and
urban areas.

2176
01:22:25,580 --> 01:22:28,800
The I'm not sure

2177
01:22:28,800 --> 01:22:30,600
if that answers
your question.

2178
01:22:30,600 --> 01:22:32,069
I wasn't suggesting from

2179
01:22:32,069 --> 01:22:33,779
California because
they haven't

2180
01:22:33,779 --> 01:22:35,189
figured out a way to
solve the problem.

2181
01:22:35,189 --> 01:22:37,020
Well, but I
wasn't suggesting

2182
01:22:37,020 --> 01:22:37,829
kind of raising

2183
01:22:37,829 --> 01:22:39,179
the California's
boogie man as

2184
01:22:39,179 --> 01:22:45,139
a weighted scheme is
that it gets it to meet.

2185
01:22:45,139 --> 01:22:47,659
Maybe I was suggesting
that because me,

2186
01:22:47,659 --> 01:22:50,779
they have concrete
examples of the loss of

2187
01:22:50,779 --> 01:22:52,550
agricultural lands through

2188
01:22:52,550 --> 01:22:56,570
the XOR urbanization
of populations.

2189
01:22:56,570 --> 01:22:57,904
They've just done it.

2190
01:22:57,904 --> 01:22:59,360
And they, I mean,
they have done it.

2191
01:22:59,360 --> 01:23:01,460
They part of what I

2192
01:23:01,460 --> 01:23:03,620
get part of my concern
and coming now

2193
01:23:03,620 --> 01:23:04,955
my concern part of

2194
01:23:04,955 --> 01:23:06,709
like to see happen
out of making

2195
01:23:06,709 --> 01:23:08,330
issue proposals
here is to end

2196
01:23:08,330 --> 01:23:10,339
this discussion
which goes on

2197
01:23:10,339 --> 01:23:11,945
endlessly about this meet

2198
01:23:11,945 --> 01:23:15,109
and we need a
rural lifestyle.

2199
01:23:15,109 --> 01:23:16,850
We need to do this,
we need to do that.

2200
01:23:16,850 --> 01:23:19,120
And I think it's a, I hope

2201
01:23:19,120 --> 01:23:20,260
that we can simplify that

2202
01:23:20,260 --> 01:23:21,580
discussion and say, Okay,

2203
01:23:21,580 --> 01:23:23,169
if you want to
make that policy

2204
01:23:23,169 --> 01:23:24,430
and provide for these kind

2205
01:23:24,430 --> 01:23:29,050
of ten acre McMansions,

2206
01:23:29,050 --> 01:23:30,069
as they referred to

2207
01:23:30,069 --> 01:23:31,944
recently in the
Oregon Union.

2208
01:23:31,944 --> 01:23:34,299
There is an economic cost

2209
01:23:34,299 --> 01:23:35,740
to it and I guess
I was looking to

2210
01:23:35,740 --> 01:23:37,690
California for some it

2211
01:23:37,690 --> 01:23:40,539
costs this much money
to do it ultimately.

2212
01:23:40,539 --> 01:23:43,420
Yeah. And there's this
much net effect on

2213
01:23:43,420 --> 01:23:45,189
the state's
agricultural economy

2214
01:23:45,189 --> 01:23:46,210
because I think too often

2215
01:23:46,210 --> 01:23:48,760
these discussions are
kind of values of

2216
01:23:48,760 --> 01:23:50,049
life discussions and there

2217
01:23:50,049 --> 01:23:51,880
really should be
economic decision.

2218
01:23:51,880 --> 01:23:53,515
Sure. I absolutely agree.

2219
01:23:53,515 --> 01:23:55,390
I don't see why that
couldn't be done

2220
01:23:55,390 --> 01:23:58,585
to make economic estimate.

2221
01:23:58,585 --> 01:24:00,580
Because this topic
is a hot one.

2222
01:24:00,580 --> 01:24:03,730
And just as I
understand it,

2223
01:24:03,730 --> 01:24:05,110
the staff is
going to be at

2224
01:24:05,110 --> 01:24:07,764
our June meeting
bringing us a proposal,

2225
01:24:07,764 --> 01:24:10,149
discuss about a rule we

2226
01:24:10,149 --> 01:24:13,210
might adopt to start
approaching this issue.

2227
01:24:13,210 --> 01:24:16,165
If you want to comment
on that at all,

2228
01:24:16,165 --> 01:24:18,489
about the how the staff

2229
01:24:18,489 --> 01:24:20,260
feels this issue is
so critical that

2230
01:24:20,260 --> 01:24:23,799
needs some faster response

2231
01:24:23,799 --> 01:24:24,745
than waiting a year.

2232
01:24:24,745 --> 01:24:26,740
And therefore there
I don t think

2233
01:24:26,740 --> 01:24:28,944
I'm really prepared
to address that.

2234
01:24:28,944 --> 01:24:35,029
It's not something
I've had in my yeah.

2235
01:24:35,370 --> 01:24:37,449
I'd actually rather not.

2236
01:24:37,449 --> 01:24:39,400
I think it's better.
I think it's better.

2237
01:24:39,400 --> 01:24:40,780
I think it's
better to wait

2238
01:24:40,780 --> 01:24:43,540
because comes out of that.

2239
01:24:43,540 --> 01:24:46,070
I don't think this
is the right time.

2240
01:24:46,830 --> 01:24:49,510
A couple of other
related findings.

2241
01:24:49,510 --> 01:24:52,360
One is that the
study case studies

2242
01:24:52,360 --> 01:24:54,190
found that these
developments occurring in

2243
01:24:54,190 --> 01:24:55,479
the fringe is occurring in

2244
01:24:55,479 --> 01:24:59,230
both exception areas
in on resource land.

2245
01:24:59,230 --> 01:25:03,940
In Ben e.g. 66% occurred
in exception areas,

2246
01:25:03,940 --> 01:25:07,340
34% on resource lands.

2247
01:25:08,760 --> 01:25:11,440
So it's both, this is not

2248
01:25:11,440 --> 01:25:12,699
an exception
area problem is

2249
01:25:12,699 --> 01:25:14,079
not a resource
area problem.

2250
01:25:14,079 --> 01:25:15,985
It's more often than not

2251
01:25:15,985 --> 01:25:17,394
an exception
every problem,

2252
01:25:17,394 --> 01:25:18,970
but not exclusively.

2253
01:25:18,970 --> 01:25:21,250
And also, we found

2254
01:25:21,250 --> 01:25:24,430
that development and urban

2255
01:25:24,430 --> 01:25:26,004
growth boundary
fringe areas

2256
01:25:26,004 --> 01:25:27,669
is not limited
to lots that

2257
01:25:27,669 --> 01:25:30,070
predated the statewide
planning program

2258
01:25:30,070 --> 01:25:32,439
that we are seeing
some subdivision and

2259
01:25:32,439 --> 01:25:33,610
partitioning going on in

2260
01:25:33,610 --> 01:25:35,320
these fringe areas is

2261
01:25:35,320 --> 01:25:38,815
not simply a matter of
historical artifact.

2262
01:25:38,815 --> 01:25:42,385
Real important
distinction to make.

2263
01:25:42,385 --> 01:25:44,469
It has important
implications,

2264
01:25:44,469 --> 01:25:46,149
I think for what could

2265
01:25:46,149 --> 01:25:48,639
possibly done to
address this issue.

2266
01:25:48,639 --> 01:25:51,819
We have basically
what amounts

2267
01:25:51,819 --> 01:25:55,209
to one major proposal
for addressing it.

2268
01:25:55,209 --> 01:25:56,709
It's the it's the approach

2269
01:25:56,709 --> 01:25:57,790
that's contained in

2270
01:25:57,790 --> 01:25:58,899
the bill that is to

2271
01:25:58,899 --> 01:26:01,789
establish so-called
urban reserves.

2272
01:26:02,640 --> 01:26:05,560
But before I
get into that,

2273
01:26:05,560 --> 01:26:07,615
let me just make
one disclaimer.

2274
01:26:07,615 --> 01:26:11,560
We purposefully
decided to to, uh,

2275
01:26:11,560 --> 01:26:14,260
re proposals
in this report

2276
01:26:14,260 --> 01:26:15,789
and not characterize

2277
01:26:15,789 --> 01:26:16,900
what we're
suggesting here,

2278
01:26:16,900 --> 01:26:18,010
what suggested here as

2279
01:26:18,010 --> 01:26:21,219
recommendations of
the department.

2280
01:26:21,219 --> 01:26:24,610
We feel that there is
need for more work,

2281
01:26:24,610 --> 01:26:26,950
more discussion
before any of these

2282
01:26:26,950 --> 01:26:29,664
really can be
characterized as a,

2283
01:26:29,664 --> 01:26:30,850
as a recommendation and we

2284
01:26:30,850 --> 01:26:32,289
need to do more
consultation.

2285
01:26:32,289 --> 01:26:33,550
And that's a big part of

2286
01:26:33,550 --> 01:26:36,139
what the task groups
are all about.

2287
01:26:36,180 --> 01:26:39,055
On urban reserves.

2288
01:26:39,055 --> 01:26:41,169
The proposal is
to establish

2289
01:26:41,169 --> 01:26:41,799
urban reserves

2290
01:26:41,799 --> 01:26:43,510
outside urban growth
boundaries to

2291
01:26:43,510 --> 01:26:45,789
preserve fringe
lands for possible

2292
01:26:45,789 --> 01:26:48,339
if you GB expansion
by urban reserved,

2293
01:26:48,339 --> 01:26:50,064
I just want to make
sure this is clear.

2294
01:26:50,064 --> 01:26:52,689
We mean land
officially identified

2295
01:26:52,689 --> 01:26:55,690
for future urban growth
boundary expansion.

2296
01:26:55,690 --> 01:26:57,640
So that development
on land within

2297
01:26:57,640 --> 01:26:59,515
the urban reserve
would be restricted.

2298
01:26:59,515 --> 01:27:00,520
So that the land could

2299
01:27:00,520 --> 01:27:02,335
be available for future

2300
01:27:02,335 --> 01:27:04,090
UG be expansion and

2301
01:27:04,090 --> 01:27:06,055
development at
urban densities.

2302
01:27:06,055 --> 01:27:06,760
John,

2303
01:27:06,760 --> 01:27:09,295
is there any recommendation
or thought as to

2304
01:27:09,295 --> 01:27:13,615
this issue of people
at once get out there,

2305
01:27:13,615 --> 01:27:15,280
whether they're on
a 20 acre lot or

2306
01:27:15,280 --> 01:27:17,165
attending or ladder
or 50 acre lot,

2307
01:27:17,165 --> 01:27:18,340
them demonstrating

2308
01:27:18,340 --> 01:27:19,149
against

2309
01:27:19,149 --> 01:27:21,294
expansion of the urban
growth boundary.

2310
01:27:21,294 --> 01:27:23,634
That issue, is
there any thought

2311
01:27:23,634 --> 01:27:25,839
given to perhaps
making it a

2312
01:27:25,839 --> 01:27:28,255
requirement for any
new building permits

2313
01:27:28,255 --> 01:27:29,379
in that urban fringe

2314
01:27:29,379 --> 01:27:31,059
area that the people sign

2315
01:27:31,059 --> 01:27:32,440
a non remonstrance or

2316
01:27:32,440 --> 01:27:34,900
whatever it is agreement
that they would

2317
01:27:34,900 --> 01:27:37,539
not remonstrated
against an expansion of

2318
01:27:37,539 --> 01:27:38,829
an urban growth
boundary and or

2319
01:27:38,829 --> 01:27:40,314
a city limit
into their area.

2320
01:27:40,314 --> 01:27:42,594
We haven't gotten to
that level of detail,

2321
01:27:42,594 --> 01:27:44,770
but I don't see why

2322
01:27:44,770 --> 01:27:46,975
that couldn't be one
of the mechanisms

2323
01:27:46,975 --> 01:27:49,389
that would be used

2324
01:27:49,389 --> 01:27:51,505
to effectuate
urban reserves.

2325
01:27:51,505 --> 01:27:55,285
I mean, they
are going to be

2326
01:27:55,285 --> 01:27:57,460
areas within which
certain restrictions

2327
01:27:57,460 --> 01:27:59,980
apply that don't
apply elsewhere.

2328
01:27:59,980 --> 01:28:05,845
And that certainly
could be one of them.

2329
01:28:05,845 --> 01:28:07,194
I would be interested in

2330
01:28:07,194 --> 01:28:10,000
what kind of azole
we're talking about it.

2331
01:28:10,000 --> 01:28:11,440
This is an overlay zone or

2332
01:28:11,440 --> 01:28:13,059
an ESU is on or how do we

2333
01:28:13,059 --> 01:28:16,315
approach that in
these urban areas?

2334
01:28:16,315 --> 01:28:18,609
Well, let me elaborate

2335
01:28:18,609 --> 01:28:20,200
a little bit on
what we have

2336
01:28:20,200 --> 01:28:22,000
in mind at this point for

2337
01:28:22,000 --> 01:28:22,929
urban reserves that may

2338
01:28:22,929 --> 01:28:25,030
answer some of
these questions.

2339
01:28:25,030 --> 01:28:28,599
Within urban reserves,
we would propose that

2340
01:28:28,599 --> 01:28:29,950
non-pharm and not enforce

2341
01:28:29,950 --> 01:28:31,419
developments at page eight

2342
01:28:31,419 --> 01:28:32,694
for people who want to.

2343
01:28:32,694 --> 01:28:35,260
Okay, Well, I'm
actually working from

2344
01:28:35,260 --> 01:28:37,059
a little bit different
outline where

2345
01:28:37,059 --> 01:28:39,955
I've dropped things out.

2346
01:28:39,955 --> 01:28:42,429
But this word to
pretty much the same.

2347
01:28:42,429 --> 01:28:46,329
We're talking about
non-pharm and

2348
01:28:46,329 --> 01:28:48,220
non forest dwellings being

2349
01:28:48,220 --> 01:28:49,839
prohibited on these lands,

2350
01:28:49,839 --> 01:28:51,100
on lands planned and zone

2351
01:28:51,100 --> 01:28:53,170
for exclusive farm use.

2352
01:28:53,170 --> 01:28:55,480
In a floor
minimum lot size

2353
01:28:55,480 --> 01:28:58,165
10-20 acres or larger,

2354
01:28:58,165 --> 01:29:01,974
established in sparsely
developed portions

2355
01:29:01,974 --> 01:29:04,629
of the urban fringe
exception areas.

2356
01:29:04,629 --> 01:29:07,120
So in effect
that this would

2357
01:29:07,120 --> 01:29:10,449
be an overlay zone
that would apply

2358
01:29:10,449 --> 01:29:11,830
additional restrictions

2359
01:29:11,830 --> 01:29:13,059
that would not apply on

2360
01:29:13,059 --> 01:29:14,590
similarly zone land

2361
01:29:14,590 --> 01:29:16,855
outside the urban reserve.

2362
01:29:16,855 --> 01:29:20,500
Question. Don't
most cities and

2363
01:29:20,500 --> 01:29:22,329
counties have

2364
01:29:22,329 --> 01:29:24,505
growth management
agreements

2365
01:29:24,505 --> 01:29:26,785
that they've signed?

2366
01:29:26,785 --> 01:29:29,800
They do over in
our country.

2367
01:29:29,800 --> 01:29:34,149
I think. Well, go ahead.

2368
01:29:34,149 --> 01:29:35,560
Well, I was just gonna say

2369
01:29:35,560 --> 01:29:37,360
there was a lot
of emphasis

2370
01:29:37,360 --> 01:29:39,159
that was put on growth
management agreements

2371
01:29:39,159 --> 01:29:41,424
during the
acknowledgment period.

2372
01:29:41,424 --> 01:29:44,049
And there were some
that were done at

2373
01:29:44,049 --> 01:29:46,164
that time and some
that are pretty good.

2374
01:29:46,164 --> 01:29:47,380
And a lot where there

2375
01:29:47,380 --> 01:29:49,630
were never adequate
agreements

2376
01:29:49,630 --> 01:29:52,450
together and for
those even for

2377
01:29:52,450 --> 01:29:53,739
those that were
put together

2378
01:29:53,739 --> 01:29:55,029
at the time of
acknowledgment,

2379
01:29:55,029 --> 01:29:56,620
there has been some some

2380
01:29:56,620 --> 01:29:57,849
of those have
become outdated.

2381
01:29:57,849 --> 01:29:59,259
One of the things we have

2382
01:29:59,259 --> 01:30:01,180
done during
periodic review is

2383
01:30:01,180 --> 01:30:03,309
to suggest in many cases

2384
01:30:03,309 --> 01:30:05,605
that those agreements
be updated.

2385
01:30:05,605 --> 01:30:08,950
But in some cases
they haven't

2386
01:30:08,950 --> 01:30:11,459
really they
certainly haven't

2387
01:30:11,459 --> 01:30:14,499
utilized all the tools
that are possible.

2388
01:30:14,540 --> 01:30:18,880
That would be that
would be a tool.

2389
01:30:18,920 --> 01:30:20,985
Yes.

2390
01:30:20,985 --> 01:30:22,870
I think that's
absolutely right

2391
01:30:22,870 --> 01:30:25,394
in but it's a
tool that could,

2392
01:30:25,394 --> 01:30:26,879
that could be applied

2393
01:30:26,879 --> 01:30:30,060
to all issues of

2394
01:30:30,060 --> 01:30:31,829
development outside
urban growth boundary,

2395
01:30:31,829 --> 01:30:34,139
some of which is not
in these fringe,

2396
01:30:34,139 --> 01:30:36,789
would not be an
urban reserves.

2397
01:30:37,220 --> 01:30:39,974
And actually there's a

2398
01:30:39,974 --> 01:30:41,699
I'm coming to the
other issue I

2399
01:30:41,699 --> 01:30:42,929
wanted to talk to
you about today,

2400
01:30:42,929 --> 01:30:44,880
which is just the issue of

2401
01:30:44,880 --> 01:30:46,979
development outside

2402
01:30:46,979 --> 01:30:48,644
urban growth boundaries
regardless of

2403
01:30:48,644 --> 01:30:51,675
location inside or
outside the fringe area.

2404
01:30:51,675 --> 01:30:53,110
And I think we get into

2405
01:30:53,110 --> 01:30:54,685
some suggestions
that bring

2406
01:30:54,685 --> 01:30:56,424
up or relate to

2407
01:30:56,424 --> 01:30:59,299
these growth
management agreement.

2408
01:31:01,260 --> 01:31:03,520
One of the other
elements that would be

2409
01:31:03,520 --> 01:31:04,870
involved in an
urban reserve is

2410
01:31:04,870 --> 01:31:06,940
that where development
compatible

2411
01:31:06,940 --> 01:31:09,130
with future urban
development is permitted,

2412
01:31:09,130 --> 01:31:11,109
it should be clustered
in its placement.

2413
01:31:11,109 --> 01:31:12,909
Guide it to avoid
conflict with

2414
01:31:12,909 --> 01:31:14,259
identifiable long-term

2415
01:31:14,259 --> 01:31:16,000
public facility projects

2416
01:31:16,000 --> 01:31:17,919
such as extensions
of major arterials.

2417
01:31:17,919 --> 01:31:20,020
Here we're getting
into the kind of

2418
01:31:20,020 --> 01:31:21,520
the concept of what's
referred to in

2419
01:31:21,520 --> 01:31:23,380
some places as
shadow planning,

2420
01:31:23,380 --> 01:31:25,314
where you try
to anticipate

2421
01:31:25,314 --> 01:31:27,250
the Urban Development

2422
01:31:27,250 --> 01:31:28,570
and the configuration it

2423
01:31:28,570 --> 01:31:31,990
would take and
then regulate

2424
01:31:31,990 --> 01:31:33,160
the location and
the placement

2425
01:31:33,160 --> 01:31:34,660
of property improvements.

2426
01:31:34,660 --> 01:31:38,725
To reduce conflicts
with that.

2427
01:31:38,725 --> 01:31:41,809
Those expectations.

2428
01:31:42,270 --> 01:31:44,949
Also another important
element I hear,

2429
01:31:44,949 --> 01:31:48,940
I think is that UVB
expansion criteria

2430
01:31:48,940 --> 01:31:51,580
need need

2431
01:31:51,580 --> 01:31:53,649
to include standards for

2432
01:31:53,649 --> 01:31:54,790
the amount in density of

2433
01:31:54,790 --> 01:31:56,829
development and
for redevelopment

2434
01:31:56,829 --> 01:31:58,284
inside urban
growth boundaries,

2435
01:31:58,284 --> 01:32:01,599
there's concern
that urban reserves

2436
01:32:01,599 --> 01:32:03,399
could operate as a sort of

2437
01:32:03,399 --> 01:32:05,530
self-fulfilling
prophecy and could end

2438
01:32:05,530 --> 01:32:07,539
up resulting in

2439
01:32:07,539 --> 01:32:10,300
premature urban growth
boundary expansion.

2440
01:32:10,300 --> 01:32:13,914
Or undermining the
accomplishment

2441
01:32:13,914 --> 01:32:15,639
of density
objectives inside

2442
01:32:15,639 --> 01:32:17,185
the urban growth boundary.

2443
01:32:17,185 --> 01:32:19,210
And one way to try

2444
01:32:19,210 --> 01:32:21,099
to reduce that
possibility is

2445
01:32:21,099 --> 01:32:24,070
to include in
the development

2446
01:32:24,070 --> 01:32:25,360
of urban reserve policies,

2447
01:32:25,360 --> 01:32:28,330
standards that would be

2448
01:32:28,330 --> 01:32:29,740
applied at the time
of urban growth,

2449
01:32:29,740 --> 01:32:31,164
boundary expansion.

2450
01:32:31,164 --> 01:32:33,264
That ties in with

2451
01:32:33,264 --> 01:32:35,739
the second of the
three major sections

2452
01:32:35,739 --> 01:32:37,179
of the report
that went on,

2453
01:32:37,179 --> 01:32:39,955
development inside urban
growth boundaries.

2454
01:32:39,955 --> 01:32:42,189
There'll be talking
to you about in June.

2455
01:32:42,189 --> 01:32:45,070
But there are also
those such standards

2456
01:32:45,070 --> 01:32:47,169
would also sort
of purposes

2457
01:32:47,169 --> 01:32:50,380
that relate to some
density shortfalls of

2458
01:32:50,380 --> 01:32:51,684
the case studies found

2459
01:32:51,684 --> 01:32:54,319
inside urban
growth boundaries.

2460
01:32:54,750 --> 01:32:57,444
An extra urban
development.

2461
01:32:57,444 --> 01:32:59,320
We're talking about just

2462
01:32:59,320 --> 01:33:01,285
simply the total quantity

2463
01:33:01,285 --> 01:33:04,030
of mainly residential
development

2464
01:33:04,030 --> 01:33:06,039
that's occurring within
these urban regions.

2465
01:33:06,039 --> 01:33:07,359
So within the same
labor market,

2466
01:33:07,359 --> 01:33:08,544
the same housing market,

2467
01:33:08,544 --> 01:33:10,704
but outside the urban
growth boundaries.

2468
01:33:10,704 --> 01:33:12,729
And our principal
finding is

2469
01:33:12,729 --> 01:33:13,630
just simply the amount

2470
01:33:13,630 --> 01:33:15,114
of that that's going on.

2471
01:33:15,114 --> 01:33:17,605
Based on our four
case studies,

2472
01:33:17,605 --> 01:33:19,554
we found that
large portions

2473
01:33:19,554 --> 01:33:21,864
of the development in

2474
01:33:21,864 --> 01:33:23,980
Oregon's fast-growing
urban regions is

2475
01:33:23,980 --> 01:33:25,330
occurring outside

2476
01:33:25,330 --> 01:33:26,604
the urban growth
boundaries.

2477
01:33:26,604 --> 01:33:28,479
I think I've had an
occasion earlier

2478
01:33:28,479 --> 01:33:30,820
to cite these
statistics to you.

2479
01:33:30,820 --> 01:33:32,125
Let me just repeat them.

2480
01:33:32,125 --> 01:33:33,819
In the Bend Area,

2481
01:33:33,819 --> 01:33:37,779
57% of total 1985 to 1989,

2482
01:33:37,779 --> 01:33:41,350
residential growth
occurred outside Benz GGB.

2483
01:33:41,350 --> 01:33:43,509
In Brookings.
The amount with

2484
01:33:43,509 --> 01:33:47,484
37% in Bedford, 24%.

2485
01:33:47,484 --> 01:33:50,830
In Portland, only 5% of

2486
01:33:50,830 --> 01:33:52,449
that state period
environment occurred

2487
01:33:52,449 --> 01:33:54,220
outside the urban
growth boundary.

2488
01:33:54,220 --> 01:33:57,300
But in crack them
as county 20,

2489
01:33:57,300 --> 01:34:00,084
20% of total
single-family development

2490
01:34:00,084 --> 01:34:01,060
occurred outside of

2491
01:34:01,060 --> 01:34:02,994
the urban growth boundary.

2492
01:34:02,994 --> 01:34:05,199
How can what percent

2493
01:34:05,199 --> 01:34:06,489
of Portland occurred
outside the

2494
01:34:06,489 --> 01:34:09,774
urban go five to 5%
of total retail.

2495
01:34:09,774 --> 01:34:11,395
I'm like, well,
there's three count,

2496
01:34:11,395 --> 01:34:12,670
Portland metro area, Tri

2497
01:34:12,670 --> 01:34:14,650
County area, only 5%.

2498
01:34:14,650 --> 01:34:16,089
But if you look at

2499
01:34:16,089 --> 01:34:17,200
the single-family for

2500
01:34:17,200 --> 01:34:18,519
molten home in
Washington Counties,

2501
01:34:18,519 --> 01:34:21,324
it was only 4%.

2502
01:34:21,324 --> 01:34:24,159
In cracking was
counting 20%.

2503
01:34:24,159 --> 01:34:26,499
So it's a, it's,

2504
01:34:26,499 --> 01:34:28,900
the lessons I
draw from that is

2505
01:34:28,900 --> 01:34:30,685
that our program can work

2506
01:34:30,685 --> 01:34:33,100
if it is considered

2507
01:34:33,100 --> 01:34:35,694
to have them among
its objectives.

2508
01:34:35,694 --> 01:34:37,779
The concentration
of new development

2509
01:34:37,779 --> 01:34:39,829
inside urban
growth boundaries.

2510
01:34:39,829 --> 01:34:42,044
And that actually is a big

2511
01:34:42,044 --> 01:34:45,164
if because it's being
done in Portland,

2512
01:34:45,164 --> 01:34:47,820
but it's not being done
in some other areas.

2513
01:34:47,820 --> 01:34:48,989
And these are
the, we selected

2514
01:34:48,989 --> 01:34:51,510
these areas because
of the rapid growth.

2515
01:34:51,510 --> 01:34:53,375
We found that most ex,

2516
01:34:53,375 --> 01:34:54,690
urban development
is occurring in

2517
01:34:54,690 --> 01:34:57,190
exception areas.
In Ben e.g.

2518
01:34:57,190 --> 01:34:58,979
81% of the 85,

2519
01:34:58,979 --> 01:35:02,099
89 extra urban
residential development

2520
01:35:02,099 --> 01:35:03,570
was an exception areas

2521
01:35:03,570 --> 01:35:06,299
in med for it, it was 59%.

2522
01:35:06,299 --> 01:35:08,880
But significant
amounts of x that

2523
01:35:08,880 --> 01:35:09,990
are in development
are occurring

2524
01:35:09,990 --> 01:35:11,205
on resource lands.

2525
01:35:11,205 --> 01:35:17,259
In Bedford, 41% was on
resource lands, e.g.

2526
01:35:21,120 --> 01:35:25,149
we also try to get the
consultants to think

2527
01:35:25,149 --> 01:35:27,159
about why this extra

2528
01:35:27,159 --> 01:35:28,494
urban development
is occurring.

2529
01:35:28,494 --> 01:35:31,885
I mean, these numbers
are pretty dramatic.

2530
01:35:31,885 --> 01:35:37,345
When you think about
the causes of this,

2531
01:35:37,345 --> 01:35:38,709
of this development,
really,

2532
01:35:38,709 --> 01:35:40,135
I find myself thinking,

2533
01:35:40,135 --> 01:35:41,379
it's kinda
surprising that we

2534
01:35:41,379 --> 01:35:42,850
haven't seen more of it.

2535
01:35:42,850 --> 01:35:44,889
In general, what we

2536
01:35:44,889 --> 01:35:47,560
think is that this
development is occurring

2537
01:35:47,560 --> 01:35:50,289
because of an interaction
of a variety of

2538
01:35:50,289 --> 01:35:53,845
economic forces and
governmental policy.

2539
01:35:53,845 --> 01:35:56,320
The economic
forces included

2540
01:35:56,320 --> 01:35:58,825
include decentralization
of employment,

2541
01:35:58,825 --> 01:36:01,749
increasing real incomes,
lower land service,

2542
01:36:01,749 --> 01:36:03,010
and tax costs outside

2543
01:36:03,010 --> 01:36:04,390
urban growth boundaries.

2544
01:36:04,390 --> 01:36:06,700
Lack of urban
service capacity

2545
01:36:06,700 --> 01:36:08,109
inside urban
growth boundaries

2546
01:36:08,109 --> 01:36:09,625
in some locations,

2547
01:36:09,625 --> 01:36:11,350
improved access provided

2548
01:36:11,350 --> 01:36:13,344
by intercity highways.

2549
01:36:13,344 --> 01:36:15,100
In the large number of

2550
01:36:15,100 --> 01:36:16,269
exception area is approved

2551
01:36:16,269 --> 01:36:16,899
at the time of

2552
01:36:16,899 --> 01:36:18,670
comprehensive plan
acknowledgment.

2553
01:36:18,670 --> 01:36:20,590
Also, there's just simply

2554
01:36:20,590 --> 01:36:23,110
the issue that
in some areas,

2555
01:36:23,110 --> 01:36:25,990
the policies on economic
development are

2556
01:36:25,990 --> 01:36:29,904
comparatively relaxed.

2557
01:36:29,904 --> 01:36:31,630
There's there's
variation among

2558
01:36:31,630 --> 01:36:33,669
counties in how
restrictive they

2559
01:36:33,669 --> 01:36:34,899
are about are in

2560
01:36:34,899 --> 01:36:37,929
permitting extra
urban development.

2561
01:36:37,929 --> 01:36:40,689
Because of these factors,

2562
01:36:40,689 --> 01:36:44,154
with only modest
increases in travel time.

2563
01:36:44,154 --> 01:36:46,299
Households with
a preference for

2564
01:36:46,299 --> 01:36:49,074
low density settings
can often find

2565
01:36:49,074 --> 01:36:52,194
rural locations
at lower cost

2566
01:36:52,194 --> 01:36:55,195
than equivalent
urban alternatives.

2567
01:36:55,195 --> 01:36:58,599
With modest sacrifices in

2568
01:36:58,599 --> 01:37:00,699
terms of your
commute to your job.

2569
01:37:00,699 --> 01:37:04,104
You can get probably,

2570
01:37:04,104 --> 01:37:06,924
you can get not on
the rural setting

2571
01:37:06,924 --> 01:37:09,355
which your tastes
may prefer,

2572
01:37:09,355 --> 01:37:10,660
but you can get
that chances

2573
01:37:10,660 --> 01:37:12,369
are in many locations at

2574
01:37:12,369 --> 01:37:14,199
a lower cost than
what you would

2575
01:37:14,199 --> 01:37:16,675
pay inside the urban
growth boundary.

2576
01:37:16,675 --> 01:37:17,770
So no wonder we're getting

2577
01:37:17,770 --> 01:37:19,669
as much as we're getting.

2578
01:37:20,850 --> 01:37:23,365
But the lower cost

2579
01:37:23,365 --> 01:37:25,765
does not reflect
the full cost.

2580
01:37:25,765 --> 01:37:27,849
Out-of-pocket costs. Okay.

2581
01:37:27,849 --> 01:37:30,864
In terms of public
services required,

2582
01:37:30,864 --> 01:37:33,769
I put out-of-pocket There.

2583
01:37:39,420 --> 01:37:42,145
We are at 20 min.

2584
01:37:42,145 --> 01:37:45,459
Okay. I won't go

2585
01:37:45,459 --> 01:37:49,179
into why all of
this is important.

2586
01:37:49,179 --> 01:37:53,995
But the interrelationships,
there are

2587
01:37:53,995 --> 01:37:55,390
important
interrelationships

2588
01:37:55,390 --> 01:37:57,310
between what
goes on outside

2589
01:37:57,310 --> 01:37:59,049
urban growth boundaries
and what goes on

2590
01:37:59,049 --> 01:38:00,340
inside the human
growth boundaries

2591
01:38:00,340 --> 01:38:01,779
of the same urban region.

2592
01:38:01,779 --> 01:38:03,729
Though. Those reasons

2593
01:38:03,729 --> 01:38:05,200
why I think we should be

2594
01:38:05,200 --> 01:38:06,759
concerned in

2595
01:38:06,759 --> 01:38:07,870
the statewide
planning planning

2596
01:38:07,870 --> 01:38:09,999
program with this issue.

2597
01:38:09,999 --> 01:38:12,445
In addition, there is

2598
01:38:12,445 --> 01:38:15,205
lots remaining
development capacity

2599
01:38:15,205 --> 01:38:16,975
and these are
extra urban areas

2600
01:38:16,975 --> 01:38:19,270
in the band area, e.g.

2601
01:38:19,270 --> 01:38:21,580
there is remaining
capacity for about

2602
01:38:21,580 --> 01:38:24,460
it and 11,000
additional units.

2603
01:38:24,460 --> 01:38:25,930
Just to give
you a sense of

2604
01:38:25,930 --> 01:38:26,949
the scale of that,

2605
01:38:26,949 --> 01:38:30,370
if all residential
development in band at

2606
01:38:30,370 --> 01:38:32,215
recent rates of growth

2607
01:38:32,215 --> 01:38:33,520
was built outside

2608
01:38:33,520 --> 01:38:35,154
the room and
growth boundary.

2609
01:38:35,154 --> 01:38:36,940
You could accommodate
that growth

2610
01:38:36,940 --> 01:38:38,769
for the next 14 years.

2611
01:38:38,769 --> 01:38:40,750
We're talking about a lot,

2612
01:38:40,750 --> 01:38:42,414
not so much in
some of the areas,

2613
01:38:42,414 --> 01:38:44,900
other areas,
Brookings is modest.

2614
01:38:45,470 --> 01:38:47,819
In Portland
area, it's about

2615
01:38:47,819 --> 01:38:49,649
the same amount
paid by the way.

2616
01:38:49,649 --> 01:38:51,615
Working here, no.

2617
01:38:51,615 --> 01:38:54,730
1110 number of
dwelling units.

2618
01:38:55,190 --> 01:38:57,360
In the way of proposals.

2619
01:38:57,360 --> 01:38:59,400
The first proposal is

2620
01:38:59,400 --> 01:39:02,129
that the statewide
planning goals should be

2621
01:39:02,129 --> 01:39:05,159
amended to more clearly
defined policy on

2622
01:39:05,159 --> 01:39:06,600
exited my
development within

2623
01:39:06,600 --> 01:39:07,469
commuting distance of

2624
01:39:07,469 --> 01:39:09,449
urban growth boundaries.

2625
01:39:09,449 --> 01:39:11,550
So what we're saying

2626
01:39:11,550 --> 01:39:12,870
here is that we
ought to think

2627
01:39:12,870 --> 01:39:17,489
about establishing
state policy on,

2628
01:39:17,489 --> 01:39:18,900
in effect the allocation

2629
01:39:18,900 --> 01:39:20,265
of development between

2630
01:39:20,265 --> 01:39:22,230
inside and outside
the growth boundary

2631
01:39:22,230 --> 01:39:24,339
in any urban region.

2632
01:39:24,500 --> 01:39:27,259
That state policy should,

2633
01:39:27,259 --> 01:39:29,020
should address
the values to

2634
01:39:29,020 --> 01:39:31,315
be protected and balanced.

2635
01:39:31,315 --> 01:39:32,440
And planning for urban

2636
01:39:32,440 --> 01:39:33,704
areas, including the CDN,

2637
01:39:33,704 --> 01:39:34,899
can open space qualities

2638
01:39:34,899 --> 01:39:36,819
of countryside
outside cities,

2639
01:39:36,819 --> 01:39:38,934
the effects of economic
development and

2640
01:39:38,934 --> 01:39:41,380
urban development
and development

2641
01:39:41,380 --> 01:39:44,095
insider urban
growth boundaries.

2642
01:39:44,095 --> 01:39:45,819
The accomplishment of

2643
01:39:45,819 --> 01:39:47,140
statewide planning
program and

2644
01:39:47,140 --> 01:39:48,174
local plan objectives

2645
01:39:48,174 --> 01:39:49,974
inside and growth
boundaries.

2646
01:39:49,974 --> 01:39:52,374
The allocation of
growth between areas

2647
01:39:52,374 --> 01:39:54,969
inside and
outside UG bees.

2648
01:39:54,969 --> 01:39:56,365
And the extent to which

2649
01:39:56,365 --> 01:39:57,700
regional
preferences should

2650
01:39:57,700 --> 01:39:59,589
prevail on these issues.

2651
01:39:59,589 --> 01:40:00,939
Those are the factors

2652
01:40:00,939 --> 01:40:01,810
we think they ought to be

2653
01:40:01,810 --> 01:40:04,375
considered in the
deliberations

2654
01:40:04,375 --> 01:40:06,024
on a state policy.

2655
01:40:06,024 --> 01:40:08,935
But we really do not
have a policy right now.

2656
01:40:08,935 --> 01:40:16,030
59, 57% is in effect
neither good nor bad.

2657
01:40:16,030 --> 01:40:19,629
That's really what it
calls into question,

2658
01:40:19,629 --> 01:40:22,790
is whether or not
it is good or bad.

2659
01:40:24,660 --> 01:40:26,650
Do we need to be looking

2660
01:40:26,650 --> 01:40:27,760
at this from the
State Board and

2661
01:40:27,760 --> 01:40:29,139
the smaller cities
you basically

2662
01:40:29,139 --> 01:40:30,985
you're talking
about the NVO.

2663
01:40:30,985 --> 01:40:33,729
We got a lot of
small towns,

2664
01:40:33,729 --> 01:40:35,424
villages, whatever
out there,

2665
01:40:35,424 --> 01:40:36,849
are there places
in the state

2666
01:40:36,849 --> 01:40:39,684
where you would be
looking at the factor?

2667
01:40:39,684 --> 01:40:41,259
But perhaps some of

2668
01:40:41,259 --> 01:40:42,640
our development ought
to be going into some

2669
01:40:42,640 --> 01:40:43,479
of the smaller places

2670
01:40:43,479 --> 01:40:44,259
where people couldn't look

2671
01:40:44,259 --> 01:40:45,130
near their jobs and

2672
01:40:45,130 --> 01:40:46,930
still have the
rural setting.

2673
01:40:46,930 --> 01:40:52,330
Well, I certainly
think that we now

2674
01:40:52,330 --> 01:40:54,579
have many
opportunities for

2675
01:40:54,579 --> 01:40:57,760
rural settings or
rural type settings.

2676
01:40:57,760 --> 01:41:01,120
And some of those
opportunities are located

2677
01:41:01,120 --> 01:41:04,690
near smaller communities

2678
01:41:04,690 --> 01:41:06,654
that are in the orbit,

2679
01:41:06,654 --> 01:41:07,959
the orbit of

2680
01:41:07,959 --> 01:41:10,840
larger areas like
Eugene, Springfield.

2681
01:41:10,840 --> 01:41:17,559
And that's a
strategy which would

2682
01:41:17,559 --> 01:41:20,319
assign a role to
those communities in

2683
01:41:20,319 --> 01:41:22,750
accommodating
long-term demand

2684
01:41:22,750 --> 01:41:24,880
for rural home sites.

2685
01:41:24,880 --> 01:41:27,309
It's certainly
one that any area

2686
01:41:27,309 --> 01:41:29,049
to consider and
it's planning.

2687
01:41:29,049 --> 01:41:30,804
There are those who

2688
01:41:30,804 --> 01:41:32,979
point out there are some
advantages of that.

2689
01:41:32,979 --> 01:41:34,779
I think one of the
thing you would find,

2690
01:41:34,779 --> 01:41:36,939
I think if you did
this same study

2691
01:41:36,939 --> 01:41:39,614
and McMahon,

2692
01:41:39,614 --> 01:41:47,139
Bill, Wilson,
bill Dallas, etc.

2693
01:41:47,139 --> 01:41:48,925
I think you would
find the same

2694
01:41:48,925 --> 01:41:50,635
basic pattern in the same,

2695
01:41:50,635 --> 01:41:52,999
same enforces didn't work.

2696
01:41:55,530 --> 01:41:57,355
People.

2697
01:41:57,355 --> 01:41:59,259
Preponderance,
or in summary,

2698
01:41:59,259 --> 01:42:00,280
isn't for patterns
and other

2699
01:42:00,280 --> 01:42:01,779
areas less than
a preponderance,

2700
01:42:01,779 --> 01:42:03,909
but a lot of
development outside

2701
01:42:03,909 --> 01:42:06,400
the cities on
relatively small lives,

2702
01:42:06,400 --> 01:42:08,739
people commuting into
those small towns

2703
01:42:08,739 --> 01:42:10,809
to Dallas or ligamentum,

2704
01:42:10,809 --> 01:42:13,075
Dundee, whatever it is.

2705
01:42:13,075 --> 01:42:15,474
I think you would
find basically these.

2706
01:42:15,474 --> 01:42:16,690
Relationships hold no

2707
01:42:16,690 --> 01:42:18,550
matter where you
went in. The state.

2708
01:42:18,550 --> 01:42:21,940
Policy question is not

2709
01:42:21,940 --> 01:42:23,350
whether Riyadh
guide growth to

2710
01:42:23,350 --> 01:42:25,765
a magnet or a Dallas.

2711
01:42:25,765 --> 01:42:28,345
But if growth
occurs in Dallas,

2712
01:42:28,345 --> 01:42:29,860
visit occur in Dallas,

2713
01:42:29,860 --> 01:42:31,029
or does it spread

2714
01:42:31,029 --> 01:42:32,784
out in the countryside
around down?

2715
01:42:32,784 --> 01:42:34,959
What should our
policy be to look at?

2716
01:42:34,959 --> 01:42:36,954
Maybe lifestyle

2717
01:42:36,954 --> 01:42:38,350
does mean a lot to
a lot of people.

2718
01:42:38,350 --> 01:42:39,250
If there are some areas

2719
01:42:39,250 --> 01:42:40,195
where there's the blog,

2720
01:42:40,195 --> 01:42:42,549
perhaps without
seriously affecting

2721
01:42:42,549 --> 01:42:43,419
what's going to happen in

2722
01:42:43,419 --> 01:42:44,604
those molecules
is in fact,

2723
01:42:44,604 --> 01:42:48,399
a lot of these
things can be nice

2724
01:42:48,399 --> 01:42:50,004
to get additional
development

2725
01:42:50,004 --> 01:42:52,149
and maybe that's the
way to encourage them.

2726
01:42:52,149 --> 01:42:54,039
Okay, you can have your
rural lifestyle and

2727
01:42:54,039 --> 01:42:56,710
these areas that will
encourage development.

2728
01:42:56,710 --> 01:43:00,519
Forbes ruler is
quite depressed.

2729
01:43:00,519 --> 01:43:01,840
I've wondered if
this was a part of

2730
01:43:01,840 --> 01:43:04,389
what we work together.

2731
01:43:04,389 --> 01:43:07,090
Usually those development

2732
01:43:07,090 --> 01:43:08,229
is linked to some kind

2733
01:43:08,229 --> 01:43:11,905
of economic
sector activity.

2734
01:43:11,905 --> 01:43:16,180
So now the retirement
residences

2735
01:43:16,180 --> 01:43:18,369
are somewhat
different matter,

2736
01:43:18,369 --> 01:43:20,500
but one of the this issue

2737
01:43:20,500 --> 01:43:21,580
we've actually
talked about,

2738
01:43:21,580 --> 01:43:22,929
this issue some at

2739
01:43:22,929 --> 01:43:24,550
the state level about
whether there isn't

2740
01:43:24,550 --> 01:43:26,860
the possibility
of trying to

2741
01:43:26,860 --> 01:43:28,015
encourage some
of the Portland

2742
01:43:28,015 --> 01:43:29,770
road to go elsewhere.

2743
01:43:29,770 --> 01:43:31,915
And one of the big
difficulty is,

2744
01:43:31,915 --> 01:43:33,909
I think what the
state has done,

2745
01:43:33,909 --> 01:43:35,230
some of them would have to

2746
01:43:35,230 --> 01:43:37,000
continue to do
is in one of

2747
01:43:37,000 --> 01:43:38,410
the things that
state can do is to

2748
01:43:38,410 --> 01:43:39,849
try to make sure
services and

2749
01:43:39,849 --> 01:43:40,929
facilities are there to

2750
01:43:40,929 --> 01:43:43,434
encourage the location,

2751
01:43:43,434 --> 01:43:46,239
the industry to some of
those other places as

2752
01:43:46,239 --> 01:43:48,520
a magnet for new
residential development.

2753
01:43:48,520 --> 01:43:51,625
I mean, something like

2754
01:43:51,625 --> 01:43:53,830
a Boeing plant
moving from Seattle,

2755
01:43:53,830 --> 01:43:56,199
which it has gone
over to Spokane and

2756
01:43:56,199 --> 01:43:57,264
then becoming a magnet

2757
01:43:57,264 --> 01:43:58,570
residential development.

2758
01:43:58,570 --> 01:44:02,964
But unless you have
jobs for people,

2759
01:44:02,964 --> 01:44:04,629
then they're
not necessarily

2760
01:44:04,629 --> 01:44:05,859
they don't have
any reason to

2761
01:44:05,859 --> 01:44:08,949
choose those Eastern
Oregon location, right?

2762
01:44:08,949 --> 01:44:10,524
The jobs have
to come first,

2763
01:44:10,524 --> 01:44:13,539
but I think we
don't be decided.

2764
01:44:13,539 --> 01:44:15,910
Well, we're not going
to make everyone

2765
01:44:15,910 --> 01:44:16,960
live within an
urban growth

2766
01:44:16,960 --> 01:44:18,895
boundary department.

2767
01:44:18,895 --> 01:44:22,389
There are places in
Oregon still a full grip

2768
01:44:22,389 --> 01:44:27,115
to encourage
jobs and return.

2769
01:44:27,115 --> 01:44:29,169
Rural kind of lifestyle

2770
01:44:29,169 --> 01:44:30,355
that a great many
people want.

2771
01:44:30,355 --> 01:44:32,290
My gut feeling it's hard,

2772
01:44:32,290 --> 01:44:33,820
but it's a difficult
thing, Hector,

2773
01:44:33,820 --> 01:44:36,699
with this discussion,
when it's

2774
01:44:36,699 --> 01:44:39,339
characterized as
everybody lives

2775
01:44:39,339 --> 01:44:39,754
inside

2776
01:44:39,754 --> 01:44:41,799
urban growth boundary
and an apartment.

2777
01:44:41,799 --> 01:44:43,899
I don't think that that is

2778
01:44:43,899 --> 01:44:45,130
a fair characterization of

2779
01:44:45,130 --> 01:44:47,395
what anybody is
talking about.

2780
01:44:47,395 --> 01:44:49,779
I don't think there's
much question

2781
01:44:49,779 --> 01:44:51,504
in this country
and the state,

2782
01:44:51,504 --> 01:44:53,140
the preponderance
of people will

2783
01:44:53,140 --> 01:44:55,824
continue to want a
single-family dwelling.

2784
01:44:55,824 --> 01:44:57,400
Whether they can
all afford it or

2785
01:44:57,400 --> 01:44:58,810
not, is another question.

2786
01:44:58,810 --> 01:44:59,919
But in this case

2787
01:44:59,919 --> 01:45:01,150
of a single-family
dwellings,

2788
01:45:01,150 --> 01:45:02,799
there'll be more an
issue of the size of

2789
01:45:02,799 --> 01:45:05,724
the lot and what
they can afford,

2790
01:45:05,724 --> 01:45:08,514
not whether they will
be it's an apartment

2791
01:45:08,514 --> 01:45:11,470
or you're going to

2792
01:45:11,470 --> 01:45:12,595
sit, you're in
an apartment.

2793
01:45:12,595 --> 01:45:13,779
If you're outside
the city, you're on

2794
01:45:13,779 --> 01:45:15,340
a single-family dwelling
on a large lot.

2795
01:45:15,340 --> 01:45:16,569
I don't think that
that's really

2796
01:45:16,569 --> 01:45:18,535
the choice we're
talking about.

2797
01:45:18,535 --> 01:45:19,960
Even we got

2798
01:45:19,960 --> 01:45:22,000
the presentations
from California.

2799
01:45:22,000 --> 01:45:24,730
He was providing a large,

2800
01:45:24,730 --> 01:45:27,100
extensive amounts of
single-family dwellings

2801
01:45:27,100 --> 01:45:28,359
in his what are

2802
01:45:28,359 --> 01:45:33,069
called relatively high
density little cities.

2803
01:45:33,069 --> 01:45:34,480
I think that's going to

2804
01:45:34,480 --> 01:45:35,740
continue to be the case.

2805
01:45:35,740 --> 01:45:37,750
It's a question of
whether that's on

2806
01:45:37,750 --> 01:45:39,820
a 5,000 square foot

2807
01:45:39,820 --> 01:45:42,040
lot or a 50,000
square foot

2808
01:45:42,040 --> 01:45:45,309
one and it gets Mr. term?

2809
01:45:45,309 --> 01:45:47,004
Yeah.

2810
01:45:47,004 --> 01:45:50,979
I I would have
to say that.

2811
01:45:50,979 --> 01:45:53,560
What Commissioner
Harris and

2812
01:45:53,560 --> 01:45:55,164
I think is saying,

2813
01:45:55,164 --> 01:45:56,679
not that everybody should

2814
01:45:56,679 --> 01:45:57,999
live inside the
department,

2815
01:45:57,999 --> 01:45:59,639
but there are areas

2816
01:45:59,639 --> 01:46:01,180
actually in the state that

2817
01:46:01,180 --> 01:46:03,580
need to be encouraged

2818
01:46:03,580 --> 01:46:04,854
to have more development.

2819
01:46:04,854 --> 01:46:06,384
Oh, I don't
have this type.

2820
01:46:06,384 --> 01:46:09,760
And the, the the
we don't need to

2821
01:46:09,760 --> 01:46:12,010
be saying that making

2822
01:46:12,010 --> 01:46:13,270
some kind of a statement.

2823
01:46:13,270 --> 01:46:15,699
I think Hector is where
you were coming from

2824
01:46:15,699 --> 01:46:19,674
that we're trying to
close everything in.

2825
01:46:19,674 --> 01:46:21,010
I don't think that
anything that

2826
01:46:21,010 --> 01:46:21,970
John is saying is

2827
01:46:21,970 --> 01:46:24,340
saying that that's one of

2828
01:46:24,340 --> 01:46:25,120
the problems I think

2829
01:46:25,120 --> 01:46:26,200
with this discussion as it

2830
01:46:26,200 --> 01:46:28,359
continues to
get twisted or

2831
01:46:28,359 --> 01:46:30,910
construed and
there will be

2832
01:46:30,910 --> 01:46:33,430
no opportunity for anybody

2833
01:46:33,430 --> 01:46:34,930
to have an acreage
home side.

2834
01:46:34,930 --> 01:46:36,519
Yeah, I think
that's the result.

2835
01:46:36,519 --> 01:46:38,529
Might my instincts
are just from

2836
01:46:38,529 --> 01:46:41,154
looking at this
is that that

2837
01:46:41,154 --> 01:46:44,260
the demand for acreage
home sites can be

2838
01:46:44,260 --> 01:46:49,675
met and that all
needs can be met.

2839
01:46:49,675 --> 01:46:51,535
What we lack.

2840
01:46:51,535 --> 01:46:52,780
And there are all sorts of

2841
01:46:52,780 --> 01:46:54,189
ways of doing that.

2842
01:46:54,189 --> 01:46:57,190
Using existing resources.

2843
01:46:57,190 --> 01:47:02,020
What we lack is a
vehicle for meeting

2844
01:47:02,020 --> 01:47:04,945
all those competing
objectives

2845
01:47:04,945 --> 01:47:07,720
on a planned basis.

2846
01:47:07,720 --> 01:47:09,969
Right now we're getting

2847
01:47:09,969 --> 01:47:11,979
much of that demand
is being met,

2848
01:47:11,979 --> 01:47:14,500
but it's not being
met on a plan basis.

2849
01:47:14,500 --> 01:47:15,775
And as a consequence,

2850
01:47:15,775 --> 01:47:19,310
it's having some
untoward consequences.

2851
01:47:19,890 --> 01:47:22,089
So we can, we can, I

2852
01:47:22,089 --> 01:47:24,130
think we can have it all.

2853
01:47:24,130 --> 01:47:26,230
But, but we have

2854
01:47:26,230 --> 01:47:29,560
to provide the
mechanisms and tools for

2855
01:47:29,560 --> 01:47:31,284
the communities
in the state

2856
01:47:31,284 --> 01:47:35,620
to achieve that end.

2857
01:47:35,620 --> 01:47:37,899
The structure right
now isn't really

2858
01:47:37,899 --> 01:47:39,714
set up in a way that
permits that to happen.

2859
01:47:39,714 --> 01:47:40,960
And part of
that is because

2860
01:47:40,960 --> 01:47:42,025
of the structure
right now.

2861
01:47:42,025 --> 01:47:43,224
Doesn't sound.

2862
01:47:43,224 --> 01:47:45,729
Real economic signals.

2863
01:47:45,729 --> 01:47:48,189
One of the things e.g.

2864
01:47:48,189 --> 01:47:51,430
that an urban growth
boundary is to do is to,

2865
01:47:51,430 --> 01:47:53,815
is to encourage
reinvestment

2866
01:47:53,815 --> 01:47:56,050
in areas as opposed
to the kind of

2867
01:47:56,050 --> 01:47:59,349
linear American
model where you left

2868
01:47:59,349 --> 01:48:00,849
the core deteriorate and

2869
01:48:00,849 --> 01:48:02,170
people just keep moving

2870
01:48:02,170 --> 01:48:03,550
to the suburbs
and you push

2871
01:48:03,550 --> 01:48:05,080
that growth on endlessly,

2872
01:48:05,080 --> 01:48:06,460
as long as there's
a land-based,

2873
01:48:06,460 --> 01:48:08,514
the real issue in
Oregon is if you just

2874
01:48:08,514 --> 01:48:10,239
let that core deteriorate

2875
01:48:10,239 --> 01:48:11,455
and push things out,

2876
01:48:11,455 --> 01:48:13,150
you're pushing
onto resource land

2877
01:48:13,150 --> 01:48:15,324
and that has an
economic consequences.

2878
01:48:15,324 --> 01:48:17,229
The other economic
consequences

2879
01:48:17,229 --> 01:48:20,769
that providing the
rural lifestyle,

2880
01:48:20,769 --> 01:48:22,404
I think you're absolutely
right, everyone.

2881
01:48:22,404 --> 01:48:24,189
You can have what
they want if you

2882
01:48:24,189 --> 01:48:26,379
establish a process
for doing it.

2883
01:48:26,379 --> 01:48:27,550
And part of that process

2884
01:48:27,550 --> 01:48:29,139
has to be a consideration.

2885
01:48:29,139 --> 01:48:30,805
What are the
economic costs

2886
01:48:30,805 --> 01:48:31,899
of that rural lifestyle?

2887
01:48:31,899 --> 01:48:33,309
I would submit that many

2888
01:48:33,309 --> 01:48:34,885
people in Oregon today,

2889
01:48:34,885 --> 01:48:38,724
our lives make that
even more distinct.

2890
01:48:38,724 --> 01:48:41,170
Many people in the
metropolitan area

2891
01:48:41,170 --> 01:48:42,355
of Portland are

2892
01:48:42,355 --> 01:48:43,749
enjoying the benefits of

2893
01:48:43,749 --> 01:48:46,255
a rural lifestyle
without paying the cost.

2894
01:48:46,255 --> 01:48:48,399
Their fair share
of the tax cost of

2895
01:48:48,399 --> 01:48:50,109
the state where
the jurisdiction

2896
01:48:50,109 --> 01:48:51,999
of providing them with
that rural lifestyle.

2897
01:48:51,999 --> 01:48:56,739
And so I support what
you're saying totally.

2898
01:48:56,739 --> 01:48:59,724
And what we need
is a process to

2899
01:48:59,724 --> 01:49:01,839
allocate the
resources that are

2900
01:49:01,839 --> 01:49:04,750
available in an
economic way.

2901
01:49:04,750 --> 01:49:06,700
One of the things
I think that

2902
01:49:06,700 --> 01:49:08,664
the planning
program can deliver

2903
01:49:08,664 --> 01:49:11,739
is a framework for

2904
01:49:11,739 --> 01:49:13,284
accomplishing the
planning part.

2905
01:49:13,284 --> 01:49:14,740
And we can
collaborate with

2906
01:49:14,740 --> 01:49:17,514
others to overtime make

2907
01:49:17,514 --> 01:49:19,974
the economic cost signals

2908
01:49:19,974 --> 01:49:23,060
reinforce our objectives.

2909
01:49:23,280 --> 01:49:25,744
I think at
another example,

2910
01:49:25,744 --> 01:49:28,119
Lynas talking about
good illustration

2911
01:49:28,119 --> 01:49:29,580
of the kinds of problems.

2912
01:49:29,580 --> 01:49:31,060
What we're not
planning for

2913
01:49:31,060 --> 01:49:35,170
it is in galactose county
or the state right

2914
01:49:35,170 --> 01:49:36,610
now is being
asked to build

2915
01:49:36,610 --> 01:49:40,690
the sunset sunrise
corridor highway,

2916
01:49:40,690 --> 01:49:43,090
a four lane freeway

2917
01:49:43,090 --> 01:49:44,979
through clock
in this county.

2918
01:49:44,979 --> 01:49:48,129
And what's that
is occurring?

2919
01:49:48,129 --> 01:49:49,599
Because people
went out there and

2920
01:49:49,599 --> 01:49:51,954
one of the rural lifestyle
which they have.

2921
01:49:51,954 --> 01:49:53,529
But now they're
finding that

2922
01:49:53,529 --> 01:49:55,599
their roads are clogged
to the point that

2923
01:49:55,599 --> 01:49:57,250
can't get to work
in the time that

2924
01:49:57,250 --> 01:49:59,350
they as ideal in
their own mind.

2925
01:49:59,350 --> 01:50:00,639
So they want the
state to build

2926
01:50:00,639 --> 01:50:02,710
a highway so they
can get to work now.

2927
01:50:02,710 --> 01:50:05,199
And this is the
contradiction, right?

2928
01:50:05,199 --> 01:50:06,999
We've got to face is
that there's nothing

2929
01:50:06,999 --> 01:50:08,425
wrong with the
roll lifestyle.

2930
01:50:08,425 --> 01:50:09,294
They can have it.

2931
01:50:09,294 --> 01:50:11,920
But there are limits
to the number of

2932
01:50:11,920 --> 01:50:13,285
people that can be there

2933
01:50:13,285 --> 01:50:14,679
or that certain point,

2934
01:50:14,679 --> 01:50:16,660
there's big cost
that gotta be paid.

2935
01:50:16,660 --> 01:50:17,439
And the question is,

2936
01:50:17,439 --> 01:50:18,580
should the state of Oregon

2937
01:50:18,580 --> 01:50:19,539
be paying the costs

2938
01:50:19,539 --> 01:50:20,785
for building that highway?

2939
01:50:20,785 --> 01:50:23,424
Or should those
people pay that cost?

2940
01:50:23,424 --> 01:50:25,645
Way, their way
it's working out,

2941
01:50:25,645 --> 01:50:28,400
the state's going
to pay that cost.

2942
01:50:29,280 --> 01:50:32,199
That's the issues
that come up when

2943
01:50:32,199 --> 01:50:32,740
you don't have

2944
01:50:32,740 --> 01:50:34,299
a planned way of
getting dressed.

2945
01:50:34,299 --> 01:50:36,310
And I think there's
a week and we have

2946
01:50:36,310 --> 01:50:37,554
an example in Portland

2947
01:50:37,554 --> 01:50:38,740
where it's worked
out very well.

2948
01:50:38,740 --> 01:50:41,305
I think we're
done Thorpe area,

2949
01:50:41,305 --> 01:50:44,680
which has 124
acre home sites

2950
01:50:44,680 --> 01:50:45,745
that are really
quite older,

2951
01:50:45,745 --> 01:50:47,724
30 to 50 years old.

2952
01:50:47,724 --> 01:50:49,599
But it's right, nestled

2953
01:50:49,599 --> 01:50:52,719
into and surrounded
by more dense areas.

2954
01:50:52,719 --> 01:50:55,180
And those people have

2955
01:50:55,180 --> 01:50:57,970
horses and there's a
rural lifestyle there.

2956
01:50:57,970 --> 01:51:00,609
But yet it's
integrated into the,

2957
01:51:00,609 --> 01:51:02,739
more integrated
into the system

2958
01:51:02,739 --> 01:51:03,760
of highways and roads

2959
01:51:03,760 --> 01:51:05,530
and they're probably more

2960
01:51:05,530 --> 01:51:07,539
close to or within
city limits.

2961
01:51:07,539 --> 01:51:09,070
I believe they're more

2962
01:51:09,070 --> 01:51:11,334
likely they're
paying their rent.

2963
01:51:11,334 --> 01:51:13,060
This is the part of

2964
01:51:13,060 --> 01:51:14,470
the city. So
what gets done?

2965
01:51:14,470 --> 01:51:16,810
Are they sitting at

2966
01:51:16,810 --> 01:51:17,845
death or it's
just an area?

2967
01:51:17,845 --> 01:51:19,450
I don't know if they're
an incorporated city.

2968
01:51:19,450 --> 01:51:20,319
I don't know. No.

2969
01:51:20,319 --> 01:51:21,759
No, they're not in
case they're not

2970
01:51:21,759 --> 01:51:23,440
part of that may
breach pardon me,

2971
01:51:23,440 --> 01:51:27,549
show probably maybe
freeloading on That's

2972
01:51:27,549 --> 01:51:29,589
a good example of a
rural or lifestyle

2973
01:51:29,589 --> 01:51:31,765
and an earbud that
can be accommodated.

2974
01:51:31,765 --> 01:51:32,799
There's nothing
wrong with it.

2975
01:51:32,799 --> 01:51:34,509
It's just kinda work out

2976
01:51:34,509 --> 01:51:35,680
this thing Olin
talked about and

2977
01:51:35,680 --> 01:51:37,525
make sure these
people don't preload.

2978
01:51:37,525 --> 01:51:39,279
We just haven't in Oregon,

2979
01:51:39,279 --> 01:51:42,940
just an immense array
of local circumstances.

2980
01:51:42,940 --> 01:51:45,010
And we have really

2981
01:51:45,010 --> 01:51:46,900
an impressive
level of talent.

2982
01:51:46,900 --> 01:51:47,679
One of the things that

2983
01:51:47,679 --> 01:51:49,059
struck a number of us at

2984
01:51:49,059 --> 01:51:51,760
the symposium was that
we had 300 people.

2985
01:51:51,760 --> 01:51:52,809
There are many of whom,

2986
01:51:52,809 --> 01:51:55,659
whom were not planners

2987
01:51:55,659 --> 01:51:57,670
or people like yourselves

2988
01:51:57,670 --> 01:51:59,064
who have been
exposed to this.

2989
01:51:59,064 --> 01:52:02,064
But the level of
discussion was very high.

2990
01:52:02,064 --> 01:52:04,660
We have cities and

2991
01:52:04,660 --> 01:52:07,030
counties with a lot of
planning expertise.

2992
01:52:07,030 --> 01:52:09,235
They have own local
circumstances

2993
01:52:09,235 --> 01:52:11,079
in tastes and
preferences vary.

2994
01:52:11,079 --> 01:52:12,670
What we need to
do, I think in

2995
01:52:12,670 --> 01:52:14,904
the planning program
is provide them,

2996
01:52:14,904 --> 01:52:17,335
each of them a vehicle
where they can

2997
01:52:17,335 --> 01:52:18,849
they can use to

2998
01:52:18,849 --> 01:52:20,860
figure out what is
right for them.

2999
01:52:20,860 --> 01:52:22,854
And we're alone.

3000
01:52:22,854 --> 01:52:25,630
We've done a lot of
that, but not all of it.

3001
01:52:25,630 --> 01:52:32,989
It sounds like we're
getting news update.

3002
01:52:35,880 --> 01:52:38,860
Can we take a break?

3003
01:52:38,860 --> 01:52:42,310
Yeah. Let's just find

3004
01:52:42,310 --> 01:52:44,050
out what are I'm
pretty close.

3005
01:52:44,050 --> 01:52:45,820
Commissioner verdict is on

3006
01:52:45,820 --> 01:52:47,500
her way and we'll
be here soon.

3007
01:52:47,500 --> 01:52:49,480
Commissioner croup is on

3008
01:52:49,480 --> 01:52:51,039
his way and we'll
be here soon,

3009
01:52:51,039 --> 01:52:52,659
but I don't think
he's gonna be with us

3010
01:52:52,659 --> 01:52:54,939
for the whole day
by any means.

3011
01:52:54,939 --> 01:52:57,370
The OneDrive
sketches drive.

3012
01:52:57,370 --> 01:52:58,674
Now, you can ask somebody

3013
01:52:58,674 --> 01:53:00,955
came up with well,
that's a question.

3014
01:53:00,955 --> 01:53:03,699
I volunteered to driving
home and he says No,

3015
01:53:03,699 --> 01:53:05,410
we'll do it
himself, but he's

3016
01:53:05,410 --> 01:53:07,120
gotten a local
anesthetic now.

3017
01:53:07,120 --> 01:53:08,305
So he wears on

3018
01:53:08,305 --> 01:53:09,850
not feeling any
pain right now,

3019
01:53:09,850 --> 01:53:11,559
but he's got
about 2 h on that

3020
01:53:11,559 --> 01:53:13,390
before he has to
go to painkillers.

3021
01:53:13,390 --> 01:53:15,805
So stitches, I don t know,

3022
01:53:15,805 --> 01:53:18,265
70 mi to inches inside the

3023
01:53:18,265 --> 01:53:20,929
Basilar and 25.

3024
01:53:24,990 --> 01:53:28,839
He thinks he's
got no money

3025
01:53:28,839 --> 01:53:31,000
for not letting them dry.

3026
01:53:31,000 --> 01:53:33,250
We've argued this
point already.

3027
01:53:33,250 --> 01:53:36,220
Chair ruling, whether
that's a good question.

3028
01:53:36,220 --> 01:53:37,329
I don't know
why it might be

3029
01:53:37,329 --> 01:53:38,769
worth calling to
maybe there's

3030
01:53:38,769 --> 01:53:39,969
some other reasons
it could be brought

3031
01:53:39,969 --> 01:53:42,590
to bear on arguments.

3032
01:53:45,060 --> 01:53:47,410
Drive home.

3033
01:53:47,410 --> 01:53:49,360
I don't I don't want to be

3034
01:53:49,360 --> 01:53:50,860
the one to tell him
he can't drive home,

3035
01:53:50,860 --> 01:53:52,960
but you can't drive home.

3036
01:53:52,960 --> 01:53:55,599
How fast you're doing
while you're here?

3037
01:53:55,599 --> 01:53:57,380
Yeah, That's
what I'm saying.

3038
01:53:58,830 --> 01:54:01,479
We do it about 80 or what?

3039
01:54:01,479 --> 01:54:04,254
Well, I told him that
there was a quorum and

3040
01:54:04,254 --> 01:54:05,619
the commission
credit proceed

3041
01:54:05,619 --> 01:54:06,730
without anybody wants to

3042
01:54:06,730 --> 01:54:08,004
be here for the transient.

3043
01:54:08,004 --> 01:54:08,995
Okay.

3044
01:54:08,995 --> 01:54:11,154
Well, let's take
a quick break.

3045
01:54:11,154 --> 01:54:13,240
And John, if we don't come

3046
01:54:13,240 --> 01:54:14,649
back to you or

3047
01:54:14,649 --> 01:54:15,640
do you have
something you need?

3048
01:54:15,640 --> 01:54:17,619
The last thing is you
need to tell us in

3049
01:54:17,619 --> 01:54:18,970
case I'm very close

3050
01:54:18,970 --> 01:54:20,454
to probably write to
the transportation.

3051
01:54:20,454 --> 01:54:22,525
I'm very close to
the conclusion.

3052
01:54:22,525 --> 01:54:23,559
There are things
that I would

3053
01:54:23,559 --> 01:54:24,550
like to share with you,

3054
01:54:24,550 --> 01:54:25,735
but I mean, well,

3055
01:54:25,735 --> 01:54:27,369
why don't you go ahead
and just finish up

3056
01:54:27,369 --> 01:54:28,210
quickly and
then we'll take

3057
01:54:28,210 --> 01:54:29,680
our break and alright,

3058
01:54:29,680 --> 01:54:30,999
let me just run
through this.

3059
01:54:30,999 --> 01:54:32,350
We won't interrupt
anymore.

3060
01:54:32,350 --> 01:54:33,880
What you might
do is just try

3061
01:54:33,880 --> 01:54:35,470
to highlight the options,

3062
01:54:35,470 --> 01:54:36,879
the proposal pieces,

3063
01:54:36,879 --> 01:54:38,425
because that's
probably mostly right.

3064
01:54:38,425 --> 01:54:42,655
That's what I thought
I'd do. One of

3065
01:54:42,655 --> 01:54:44,575
the second
recommendation is that

3066
01:54:44,575 --> 01:54:46,450
a planning framework
be established

3067
01:54:46,450 --> 01:54:48,550
for x urban
exception areas.

3068
01:54:48,550 --> 01:54:50,980
And that where
they do not exist,

3069
01:54:50,980 --> 01:54:52,479
the program should
provide for

3070
01:54:52,479 --> 01:54:53,829
the development
of plans for

3071
01:54:53,829 --> 01:54:57,099
exception areas outside
of growth boundaries.

3072
01:54:57,099 --> 01:54:59,335
That's why I'm
talking about

3073
01:54:59,335 --> 01:55:03,249
a vehicle for doing
local planning.

3074
01:55:03,249 --> 01:55:05,380
As an interim
measure to limit

3075
01:55:05,380 --> 01:55:05,800
the amount of

3076
01:55:05,800 --> 01:55:07,450
extra urban
development occurring.

3077
01:55:07,450 --> 01:55:09,370
Clustering should
be encouraged or

3078
01:55:09,370 --> 01:55:10,390
required in a floor

3079
01:55:10,390 --> 01:55:12,010
minimum lot size
and extra urban,

3080
01:55:12,010 --> 01:55:13,060
rural residential areas

3081
01:55:13,060 --> 01:55:14,350
should be established.

3082
01:55:14,350 --> 01:55:15,760
The jurisdictions of each

3083
01:55:15,760 --> 01:55:17,514
urban region should be,

3084
01:55:17,514 --> 01:55:19,749
should decide and
allocation of

3085
01:55:19,749 --> 01:55:21,789
development
between inside and

3086
01:55:21,789 --> 01:55:23,169
outside the urban
growth boundary.

3087
01:55:23,169 --> 01:55:25,390
This could take the
form of an amendment to

3088
01:55:25,390 --> 01:55:27,219
growth management
agreement or

3089
01:55:27,219 --> 01:55:28,840
an intergovernmental
agreement

3090
01:55:28,840 --> 01:55:30,445
that now exists.

3091
01:55:30,445 --> 01:55:33,100
And we're suggesting that

3092
01:55:33,100 --> 01:55:35,110
a cross acceptance or

3093
01:55:35,110 --> 01:55:36,174
were one of the proposals,

3094
01:55:36,174 --> 01:55:38,200
is that a cross
acceptance requirements

3095
01:55:38,200 --> 01:55:39,490
for the areas
comprising and

3096
01:55:39,490 --> 01:55:41,604
urban region
should be created

3097
01:55:41,604 --> 01:55:43,180
by cross acceptance.

3098
01:55:43,180 --> 01:55:44,889
This is meant a
process by which

3099
01:55:44,889 --> 01:55:47,425
jurisdictions
within urban region

3100
01:55:47,425 --> 01:55:48,910
systematically would

3101
01:55:48,910 --> 01:55:50,739
review each other's
planning actions

3102
01:55:50,739 --> 01:55:53,245
for consistency with
their own plans.

3103
01:55:53,245 --> 01:55:56,350
Work to harmonize their
plans and policies,

3104
01:55:56,350 --> 01:55:58,299
and when necessary
to come to

3105
01:55:58,299 --> 01:56:00,895
agreement to participate
in mediation.

3106
01:56:00,895 --> 01:56:02,725
So basically it says,

3107
01:56:02,725 --> 01:56:05,365
if you if you're a
jurisdiction within

3108
01:56:05,365 --> 01:56:08,649
a single urban
urban region,

3109
01:56:08,649 --> 01:56:11,439
you would notify and

3110
01:56:11,439 --> 01:56:13,420
share with the
other jurisdictions

3111
01:56:13,420 --> 01:56:15,355
what your plant proposed
planning actions

3112
01:56:15,355 --> 01:56:17,109
are and go through

3113
01:56:17,109 --> 01:56:19,179
a cross acceptance
process.

3114
01:56:19,179 --> 01:56:21,429
That's basically those are

3115
01:56:21,429 --> 01:56:24,910
the basic proposals for
those two issues for

3116
01:56:24,910 --> 01:56:31,365
inclusion in the
report. Any questions?

3117
01:56:31,365 --> 01:56:32,415
Yeah.

3118
01:56:32,415 --> 01:56:33,540
Just one other
quick thing.

3119
01:56:33,540 --> 01:56:35,609
When you the idea
of holding that

3120
01:56:35,609 --> 01:56:36,869
that public hearing that

3121
01:56:36,869 --> 01:56:37,919
you'd have in August,

3122
01:56:37,919 --> 01:56:39,404
even though you
wouldn't be

3123
01:56:39,404 --> 01:56:41,520
directing staff to
revise the report.

3124
01:56:41,520 --> 01:56:42,900
I think the twist
that you want to

3125
01:56:42,900 --> 01:56:44,969
put on that hearing
in August is

3126
01:56:44,969 --> 01:56:46,499
that you want to get

3127
01:56:46,499 --> 01:56:50,774
people's initial reaction
to the options and

3128
01:56:50,774 --> 01:56:52,920
express issues or

3129
01:56:52,920 --> 01:56:54,510
concerns that
they would like

3130
01:56:54,510 --> 01:56:56,069
the task groups to

3131
01:56:56,069 --> 01:56:58,589
consider as a task
group process starts.

3132
01:56:58,589 --> 01:57:00,570
And I think if
you put that

3133
01:57:00,570 --> 01:57:02,370
kind of framework on it,

3134
01:57:02,370 --> 01:57:04,110
people will have a
better understanding

3135
01:57:04,110 --> 01:57:05,819
of what the public
hearing is about.

3136
01:57:05,819 --> 01:57:07,530
Because often when you
have a public hearing,

3137
01:57:07,530 --> 01:57:08,759
it's to change a report.

3138
01:57:08,759 --> 01:57:09,690
In this case,
we're not talking

3139
01:57:09,690 --> 01:57:10,829
about changing the report,

3140
01:57:10,829 --> 01:57:12,669
but but it really is

3141
01:57:12,669 --> 01:57:13,690
that opportunity than the

3142
01:57:13,690 --> 01:57:15,400
task groups can take

3143
01:57:15,400 --> 01:57:16,779
that public testimony and

3144
01:57:16,779 --> 01:57:18,819
incorporate it into
their thinking when they

3145
01:57:18,819 --> 01:57:24,219
move through this
process. Thank you.

3146
01:57:24,219 --> 01:57:26,020
Let's take a short break

3147
01:57:26,020 --> 01:57:27,279
and hopefully
that will be up

3148
01:57:27,279 --> 01:57:34,820
to our discussion on
transportation and rule.

3149
01:57:35,310 --> 01:57:37,780
Recognizing we made out of

3150
01:57:37,780 --> 01:57:40,280
four nodes and we'll
come back to that.

3151
01:57:46,530 --> 01:57:49,390
Mr. Chairman, we have

3152
01:57:49,390 --> 01:57:51,399
several pieces
of paper for you

3153
01:57:51,399 --> 01:57:54,235
in additional one
that will distribute.

3154
01:57:54,235 --> 01:57:57,369
As I proceed with
the discussion,

3155
01:57:57,369 --> 01:58:00,204
you haven't April
16th staff report.

3156
01:58:00,204 --> 01:58:02,289
In addition, you received

3157
01:58:02,289 --> 01:58:04,615
an April 24th
amendment to that,

3158
01:58:04,615 --> 01:58:06,775
that includes
some revisions

3159
01:58:06,775 --> 01:58:09,489
that are basic,
basically typographical.

3160
01:58:09,489 --> 01:58:11,110
I have three other changes

3161
01:58:11,110 --> 01:58:12,550
that I want to
note for you in

3162
01:58:12,550 --> 01:58:14,275
the draft rule that are

3163
01:58:14,275 --> 01:58:16,359
also typographical

3164
01:58:16,359 --> 01:58:18,685
error changes that
we'd like to make.

3165
01:58:18,685 --> 01:58:21,339
I then like to talk
about four issues

3166
01:58:21,339 --> 01:58:23,560
that seem to be
major issues

3167
01:58:23,560 --> 01:58:25,810
in the discussions
that we've

3168
01:58:25,810 --> 01:58:28,854
had on the rule and to
review those with you.

3169
01:58:28,854 --> 01:58:30,700
Let me quickly go through

3170
01:58:30,700 --> 01:58:33,940
the typographical changes.

3171
01:58:33,940 --> 01:58:35,710
They start on page

3172
01:58:35,710 --> 01:58:37,630
On three-page at 17:20,

3173
01:58:37,630 --> 01:58:42,069
1.25 of rural 17.

3174
01:58:42,069 --> 01:58:47,719
On page 17,
sub-section six.

3175
01:58:50,220 --> 01:58:54,769
There isn't an missing
in the last sentence.

3176
01:58:56,400 --> 01:58:58,374
It should be.

3177
01:58:58,374 --> 01:58:59,695
And providing

3178
01:58:59,695 --> 01:59:02,444
direct access between
adjacent uses.

3179
01:59:02,444 --> 01:59:05,395
The underlying
section on page 17,

3180
01:59:05,395 --> 01:59:07,404
last full line should say,

3181
01:59:07,404 --> 01:59:09,159
and providing
direct access

3182
01:59:09,159 --> 01:59:11,359
between adjacent uses.

3183
01:59:18,270 --> 01:59:23,119
Second change
is on page 21.

3184
01:59:23,190 --> 01:59:29,214
There is a repeated phrase

3185
01:59:29,214 --> 01:59:34,370
in the underlying
Section, o652g.

3186
01:59:36,150 --> 01:59:39,849
And we should delete where

3187
01:59:39,849 --> 01:59:43,014
the replaced road segment
is either abandon,

3188
01:59:43,014 --> 01:59:46,340
that is a repeated
phrase in the rule.

3189
01:59:52,620 --> 01:59:56,959
Third changes on page 25.

3190
01:59:58,050 --> 02:00:00,339
And the staff grammarian

3191
02:00:00,339 --> 02:00:01,569
informs me that
we should be

3192
02:00:01,569 --> 02:00:05,290
saying within as one
word rather than two.

3193
02:00:05,290 --> 02:00:09,949
On Section o73.

3194
02:00:11,250 --> 02:00:14,259
That is in the last
sentence of that section,

3195
02:00:14,259 --> 02:00:18,080
specific sites are areas
within the corridor.

3196
02:00:18,300 --> 02:00:21,099
And I think with
that, we have

3197
02:00:21,099 --> 02:00:23,110
all the changes that
we need to make

3198
02:00:23,110 --> 02:00:25,509
to correct those problems.

3199
02:00:25,509 --> 02:00:27,340
Just important
to point out

3200
02:00:27,340 --> 02:00:29,319
that version of the
rule that we're

3201
02:00:29,319 --> 02:00:30,910
working on is the one

3202
02:00:30,910 --> 02:00:33,280
that's with a memo on top.

3203
02:00:33,280 --> 02:00:34,795
It's dated April 24th.

3204
02:00:34,795 --> 02:00:35,320
That's correct.

3205
02:00:35,320 --> 02:00:36,744
Not the one
that originally

3206
02:00:36,744 --> 02:00:38,965
was in your book, but
the one that came in?

3207
02:00:38,965 --> 02:00:39,939
That's correct.

3208
02:00:39,939 --> 02:00:41,440
That's the version that

3209
02:00:41,440 --> 02:00:43,570
we'll be working
with today.

3210
02:00:43,570 --> 02:00:46,429
Discard the other one.

3211
02:00:54,630 --> 02:00:56,889
There are four issues that

3212
02:00:56,889 --> 02:00:59,035
I'd like to briefly

3213
02:00:59,035 --> 02:01:00,849
raise to you
that have been

3214
02:01:00,849 --> 02:01:02,139
major issues in
the commission's

3215
02:01:02,139 --> 02:01:03,280
discussion in this rule.

3216
02:01:03,280 --> 02:01:04,630
They are the question of

3217
02:01:04,630 --> 02:01:06,069
requiring local
governments to

3218
02:01:06,069 --> 02:01:08,079
reconsider land
use patterns

3219
02:01:08,079 --> 02:01:10,644
as a way to reduce
travel needs.

3220
02:01:10,644 --> 02:01:14,590
The requirement that
the major urban areas

3221
02:01:14,590 --> 02:01:17,754
plan to reduce vehicle
miles traveled.

3222
02:01:17,754 --> 02:01:20,140
The third is the question

3223
02:01:20,140 --> 02:01:22,179
of what is a land
use decision and

3224
02:01:22,179 --> 02:01:23,739
how this rule
effects making

3225
02:01:23,739 --> 02:01:26,229
certain transportation
planning decisions,

3226
02:01:26,229 --> 02:01:27,474
land use decision.

3227
02:01:27,474 --> 02:01:29,845
And the fourth is one
that has come up in

3228
02:01:29,845 --> 02:01:31,044
questions regarding

3229
02:01:31,044 --> 02:01:32,320
implementation
of the rule,

3230
02:01:32,320 --> 02:01:33,639
about how this rule would

3231
02:01:33,639 --> 02:01:35,454
affect the Western bypass.

3232
02:01:35,454 --> 02:01:37,345
Let me go first
to the issue of

3233
02:01:37,345 --> 02:01:40,314
the requirement to
reconsider land use plans.

3234
02:01:40,314 --> 02:01:42,475
The department is
recommending that this

3235
02:01:42,475 --> 02:01:44,409
not that this change

3236
02:01:44,409 --> 02:01:45,515
that's been recommended by

3237
02:01:45,515 --> 02:01:46,944
number of legislators and

3238
02:01:46,944 --> 02:01:50,034
other groups not be
included in the rule,

3239
02:01:50,034 --> 02:01:51,280
were sympathetic to

3240
02:01:51,280 --> 02:01:52,719
the concern that's
been raised.

3241
02:01:52,719 --> 02:01:54,489
We agree that considering

3242
02:01:54,489 --> 02:01:56,349
changes to land
use patterns is

3243
02:01:56,349 --> 02:01:58,809
an important element of

3244
02:01:58,809 --> 02:02:00,490
accomplishing the
goals that are

3245
02:02:00,490 --> 02:02:02,064
set forth in this rule.

3246
02:02:02,064 --> 02:02:03,550
However, we believe that

3247
02:02:03,550 --> 02:02:06,519
the principal way to
address this should

3248
02:02:06,519 --> 02:02:07,419
be through the work that

3249
02:02:07,419 --> 02:02:08,740
the commission has
scheduled over

3250
02:02:08,740 --> 02:02:11,439
the next year on urban
growth management.

3251
02:02:11,439 --> 02:02:13,419
Consequently, we're
not recommending

3252
02:02:13,419 --> 02:02:15,099
changing the MAY to Shao.

3253
02:02:15,099 --> 02:02:16,299
We have, however, in

3254
02:02:16,299 --> 02:02:19,225
response to this
discussion,

3255
02:02:19,225 --> 02:02:22,509
proposed a couple of
changes to the rule.

3256
02:02:22,509 --> 02:02:23,950
And in addition,

3257
02:02:23,950 --> 02:02:25,119
we're recommending
that the Commission

3258
02:02:25,119 --> 02:02:27,189
adopt a policy
statement which would

3259
02:02:27,189 --> 02:02:29,560
basically restate
that proposition.

3260
02:02:29,560 --> 02:02:30,550
That is that
the commission

3261
02:02:30,550 --> 02:02:31,690
agrees that changes to

3262
02:02:31,690 --> 02:02:33,940
land use, plans or

3263
02:02:33,940 --> 02:02:35,904
patterns are an
important element

3264
02:02:35,904 --> 02:02:38,635
of accomplishing the
objectives of this rule.

3265
02:02:38,635 --> 02:02:40,030
But that this ought to

3266
02:02:40,030 --> 02:02:41,439
be done in the context of

3267
02:02:41,439 --> 02:02:43,344
an overall
evaluation of how

3268
02:02:43,344 --> 02:02:44,680
development is occurring

3269
02:02:44,680 --> 02:02:46,825
within urban
growth boundaries.

3270
02:02:46,825 --> 02:02:49,510
The specific other
changes we're making are

3271
02:02:49,510 --> 02:02:51,699
to add the
detailed language

3272
02:02:51,699 --> 02:02:52,780
that we presented
to you at

3273
02:02:52,780 --> 02:02:53,829
your march Commission

3274
02:02:53,829 --> 02:02:55,465
meeting that would explain

3275
02:02:55,465 --> 02:02:57,699
how local governments
that choose

3276
02:02:57,699 --> 02:03:00,415
to reevaluate
land use plan.

3277
02:03:00,415 --> 02:03:01,990
Plans and patterns ought

3278
02:03:01,990 --> 02:03:03,250
to go about doing that.

3279
02:03:03,250 --> 02:03:05,754
A lot of our concern
was that there was not

3280
02:03:05,754 --> 02:03:07,630
much certainty
or specificity

3281
02:03:07,630 --> 02:03:08,529
about how you would

3282
02:03:08,529 --> 02:03:10,195
reconsider land use plans.

3283
02:03:10,195 --> 02:03:12,309
We've given some
specific suggestions

3284
02:03:12,309 --> 02:03:14,184
on how that would
be accomplished.

3285
02:03:14,184 --> 02:03:16,150
The second thing
that we have

3286
02:03:16,150 --> 02:03:18,129
done is to
propose that you

3287
02:03:18,129 --> 02:03:20,950
expedite several of
the requirements for

3288
02:03:20,950 --> 02:03:22,479
revising local zoning

3289
02:03:22,479 --> 02:03:24,115
and subdivision
ordinances.

3290
02:03:24,115 --> 02:03:25,929
You recall that
the rule includes

3291
02:03:25,929 --> 02:03:28,119
a number of specific
requirements to make

3292
02:03:28,119 --> 02:03:30,430
development and
street patterns

3293
02:03:30,430 --> 02:03:32,694
more transit and
pedestrian friendly.

3294
02:03:32,694 --> 02:03:34,179
Those are things
that given

3295
02:03:34,179 --> 02:03:35,829
the other requirements
and the rule would

3296
02:03:35,829 --> 02:03:37,734
not have to be done
for five years.

3297
02:03:37,734 --> 02:03:38,979
We're recommending
that those be

3298
02:03:38,979 --> 02:03:41,409
expedited for sit
for urban areas of

3299
02:03:41,409 --> 02:03:45,204
25,000 or more to be
done within two years.

3300
02:03:45,204 --> 02:03:46,839
We think that
that will get

3301
02:03:46,839 --> 02:03:49,790
the most direct impact.