1
00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:02,129
Whereby that which is

2
00:00:02,129 --> 00:00:04,320
valuable farmland
or that which

3
00:00:04,320 --> 00:00:06,660
is valuable forest
land that needs

4
00:00:06,660 --> 00:00:08,535
protection for
the economics

5
00:00:08,535 --> 00:00:10,530
of this state to preserve

6
00:00:10,530 --> 00:00:12,030
the economic viability of

7
00:00:12,030 --> 00:00:13,560
the state that can be

8
00:00:13,560 --> 00:00:15,149
protected at the same time

9
00:00:15,149 --> 00:00:17,084
we loosen up on
lots of record.

10
00:00:17,084 --> 00:00:19,574
Now as you know, 36, 61,

11
00:00:19,574 --> 00:00:21,600
really dead loosen
up on lots of

12
00:00:21,600 --> 00:00:23,640
record and we
have no idea how

13
00:00:23,640 --> 00:00:25,949
loose that's going to
be until history will

14
00:00:25,949 --> 00:00:27,270
give us some experience

15
00:00:27,270 --> 00:00:28,665
in the next few years.

16
00:00:28,665 --> 00:00:30,449
But I just wanted to

17
00:00:30,449 --> 00:00:32,160
lay that background
because I think

18
00:00:32,160 --> 00:00:34,709
it's important to
understand when some of us

19
00:00:34,709 --> 00:00:36,059
asked for
tightening up when

20
00:00:36,059 --> 00:00:37,590
high-value farmland,

21
00:00:37,590 --> 00:00:39,089
it is in the context that

22
00:00:39,089 --> 00:00:41,305
the loosening up has
already happened.

23
00:00:41,305 --> 00:00:43,249
We dare not loosen up on

24
00:00:43,249 --> 00:00:45,860
the protection of our
best agricultural land.

25
00:00:45,860 --> 00:00:47,044
Because to do that,

26
00:00:47,044 --> 00:00:48,560
we can see agricultural
economy of

27
00:00:48,560 --> 00:00:50,510
the state going to

28
00:00:50,510 --> 00:00:53,450
high-value farmland
definition.

29
00:00:53,450 --> 00:00:55,730
On your first major issue,

30
00:00:55,730 --> 00:00:58,744
there are organs
preference

31
00:00:58,744 --> 00:01:00,469
is certainly number two.

32
00:01:00,469 --> 00:01:02,270
To go back to
the definition,

33
00:01:02,270 --> 00:01:04,069
the 990s rules,

34
00:01:04,069 --> 00:01:06,529
we felt that was the
best definition.

35
00:01:06,529 --> 00:01:09,710
We are concerned
about the loss

36
00:01:09,710 --> 00:01:12,650
of alfalfa ground in
ranching country,

37
00:01:12,650 --> 00:01:15,169
knowing that
viable ranches do

38
00:01:15,169 --> 00:01:17,660
need good-quality
alfalfa ground,

39
00:01:17,660 --> 00:01:19,459
and that is not
included in

40
00:01:19,459 --> 00:01:21,470
the proposed rule on

41
00:01:21,470 --> 00:01:23,960
uses on high-value
farmland.

42
00:01:23,960 --> 00:01:27,140
We would prefer your
suggested option

43
00:01:27,140 --> 00:01:30,109
two with a limitation
of non-pharm dwellings.

44
00:01:30,109 --> 00:01:31,614
This is very important.

45
00:01:31,614 --> 00:01:33,394
The quid pro quo,

46
00:01:33,394 --> 00:01:36,065
as we understood it,
has always been.

47
00:01:36,065 --> 00:01:36,725
Okay.

48
00:01:36,725 --> 00:01:38,359
We'll give you
lots of record.

49
00:01:38,359 --> 00:01:40,594
But no new
non-farm dwellings

50
00:01:40,594 --> 00:01:42,530
in the high-value
farmland.

51
00:01:42,530 --> 00:01:44,869
And we believe that's
an important value

52
00:01:44,869 --> 00:01:48,469
that the state of Oregon
needs to commit to.

53
00:01:48,469 --> 00:01:50,089
We are also very much

54
00:01:50,089 --> 00:01:52,550
concerned about the
permission for or

55
00:01:52,550 --> 00:01:55,580
the supposed
the possibility

56
00:01:55,580 --> 00:01:58,339
having crushing and
stockpiling of aggregate,

57
00:01:58,339 --> 00:02:00,724
even aggregate that's not

58
00:02:00,724 --> 00:02:03,125
that doesn't come from
an adjacent site.

59
00:02:03,125 --> 00:02:05,075
That crushing
and stockpiling

60
00:02:05,075 --> 00:02:08,165
would be allowed on
high-value farmland.

61
00:02:08,165 --> 00:02:10,849
We think if that aggregate

62
00:02:10,849 --> 00:02:13,520
is not related to
an extraction site,

63
00:02:13,520 --> 00:02:14,764
that should not
be allowed.

64
00:02:14,764 --> 00:02:16,160
The issue of
churches has come

65
00:02:16,160 --> 00:02:17,614
up in the last
few minutes.

66
00:02:17,614 --> 00:02:19,849
In your discussion.
I happened

67
00:02:19,849 --> 00:02:21,584
to be aware of a parcel,

68
00:02:21,584 --> 00:02:24,154
very high-quality farmland
in Benton County,

69
00:02:24,154 --> 00:02:26,434
I believe it's
30 or 40 acres.

70
00:02:26,434 --> 00:02:29,179
And outside the urban
growth growth boundary.

71
00:02:29,179 --> 00:02:30,919
Outside the urban
growth boundary because

72
00:02:30,919 --> 00:02:32,989
it is very
high-quality land.

73
00:02:32,989 --> 00:02:35,165
And a farmer's
trying to buy it,

74
00:02:35,165 --> 00:02:37,175
a church is
trying to buy it.

75
00:02:37,175 --> 00:02:39,440
The landowner is
holding out for

76
00:02:39,440 --> 00:02:41,630
a huge money because he

77
00:02:41,630 --> 00:02:43,489
somehow show that
rules will change

78
00:02:43,489 --> 00:02:44,660
and he can get
even more than

79
00:02:44,660 --> 00:02:45,995
the church would
allow for him.

80
00:02:45,995 --> 00:02:48,919
Obviously in the minds
of agriculture Oregon,

81
00:02:48,919 --> 00:02:50,090
that land should be

82
00:02:50,090 --> 00:02:51,290
available for
the farmer at

83
00:02:51,290 --> 00:02:53,990
farmland prices
and that landowner

84
00:02:53,990 --> 00:02:56,030
should not have
the expectation

85
00:02:56,030 --> 00:02:57,350
that he's going
to make his

86
00:02:57,350 --> 00:03:00,139
million or more on on

87
00:03:00,139 --> 00:03:03,770
a development site in
regard to mapping,

88
00:03:03,770 --> 00:03:07,564
your option number
three is okay,

89
00:03:07,564 --> 00:03:08,570
except that it does

90
00:03:08,570 --> 00:03:09,890
raise concerns,
for instance,

91
00:03:09,890 --> 00:03:11,629
the Jackson County
farmer points

92
00:03:11,629 --> 00:03:13,460
out that they are

93
00:03:13,460 --> 00:03:15,559
now in a periodic review

94
00:03:15,559 --> 00:03:16,160
and it's going to be

95
00:03:16,160 --> 00:03:17,450
probably another
ten years.

96
00:03:17,450 --> 00:03:19,460
And by that time,
she's fearful that

97
00:03:19,460 --> 00:03:22,969
all the farmland
will be gone.

98
00:03:22,969 --> 00:03:25,400
So I wish that
there will be

99
00:03:25,400 --> 00:03:27,469
some way that
those counties

100
00:03:27,469 --> 00:03:29,734
who do have
periodic review

101
00:03:29,734 --> 00:03:31,999
currently or have
just completed,

102
00:03:31,999 --> 00:03:35,120
we'll be able to
do their map,

103
00:03:35,120 --> 00:03:36,364
their high value

104
00:03:36,364 --> 00:03:38,270
immediately and
not postpone that.

105
00:03:38,270 --> 00:03:40,430
And definitely can
you summarize?

106
00:03:40,430 --> 00:03:43,355
I've done you've had it.

107
00:03:43,355 --> 00:03:45,499
Unless your questions.

108
00:03:45,499 --> 00:03:47,600
Thank you.

109
00:03:47,600 --> 00:03:50,075
Diana Gardner coming
up, do you want me?

110
00:03:50,075 --> 00:03:50,390
Yes.

111
00:03:50,390 --> 00:03:52,069
She happens to
be next. Okay.

112
00:03:52,069 --> 00:03:53,944
I'm David Gardener today.

113
00:03:53,944 --> 00:03:56,150
Diana called last night

114
00:03:56,150 --> 00:03:57,620
and said I can't
possibly make it.

115
00:03:57,620 --> 00:03:59,525
I got my testimony ready.

116
00:03:59,525 --> 00:04:02,790
She has written testimony.

117
00:04:04,450 --> 00:04:08,464
I will attempt to
highlight that.

118
00:04:08,464 --> 00:04:13,169
Diana Gardener from
Bedford, Oregon.

119
00:04:15,130 --> 00:04:18,560
Diana with her husband
Judson Parsons,

120
00:04:18,560 --> 00:04:21,439
own or manage 2,700
acres of farm in

121
00:04:21,439 --> 00:04:25,109
forest land in Jackson
and American counties.

122
00:04:25,720 --> 00:04:28,279
We want to give you an
idea of the mood of

123
00:04:28,279 --> 00:04:30,200
commercial farmers
in Jackson County.

124
00:04:30,200 --> 00:04:31,880
We hope that my
comments will encourage

125
00:04:31,880 --> 00:04:32,929
the strongest possible

126
00:04:32,929 --> 00:04:34,190
protection for farmland.

127
00:04:34,190 --> 00:04:35,600
You may know that
major commercial

128
00:04:35,600 --> 00:04:37,429
egg in Jackson County

129
00:04:37,429 --> 00:04:38,960
is the tree fruit
industry with about

130
00:04:38,960 --> 00:04:41,120
9,000 acres in pairs.

131
00:04:41,120 --> 00:04:42,589
Feeling among growers and

132
00:04:42,589 --> 00:04:44,540
packers is that the
land-use laws are

133
00:04:44,540 --> 00:04:46,610
failing to protect
commercial agriculture

134
00:04:46,610 --> 00:04:48,080
from conflicting uses.

135
00:04:48,080 --> 00:04:49,699
There is fewer
than the face of

136
00:04:49,699 --> 00:04:51,860
continuing population
growth and

137
00:04:51,860 --> 00:04:53,720
competition for
land and water,

138
00:04:53,720 --> 00:04:56,284
the pair orchard us
may not survive.

139
00:04:56,284 --> 00:04:57,829
Given this
pessimistic view

140
00:04:57,829 --> 00:04:58,910
of the future of
the industry,

141
00:04:58,910 --> 00:05:00,500
peer orchard
owners do not see

142
00:05:00,500 --> 00:05:02,600
value in supporting
farmland protection.

143
00:05:02,600 --> 00:05:04,070
They see land-use laws is

144
00:05:04,070 --> 00:05:05,780
a trap which will
limit their options to

145
00:05:05,780 --> 00:05:07,580
capitalize on the
value of the land who

146
00:05:07,580 --> 00:05:09,139
development
when it becomes

147
00:05:09,139 --> 00:05:10,895
impossible to
continue farming,

148
00:05:10,895 --> 00:05:12,410
commercial or
to disbelieve

149
00:05:12,410 --> 00:05:13,789
that hobby farming
will survive,

150
00:05:13,789 --> 00:05:15,230
but not the pair industry.

151
00:05:15,230 --> 00:05:17,270
Growing pairs
depends on strictly

152
00:05:17,270 --> 00:05:19,954
limiting interfering
residential uses.

153
00:05:19,954 --> 00:05:21,470
In Jackson County, there's

154
00:05:21,470 --> 00:05:22,759
practically no support by

155
00:05:22,759 --> 00:05:24,169
local governing bodies for

156
00:05:24,169 --> 00:05:25,550
cut foreign land
conservation.

157
00:05:25,550 --> 00:05:27,440
The commitment is to
tourism, recreation,

158
00:05:27,440 --> 00:05:28,879
retiring housing,
retailing,

159
00:05:28,879 --> 00:05:30,650
servicing, and
aging population.

160
00:05:30,650 --> 00:05:32,960
This lack of support
occurs partly because

161
00:05:32,960 --> 00:05:34,159
the commercial
farming community

162
00:05:34,159 --> 00:05:35,719
does not lobby
for protection.

163
00:05:35,719 --> 00:05:37,580
There's also
heavy pressure on

164
00:05:37,580 --> 00:05:38,690
local politicians buy

165
00:05:38,690 --> 00:05:40,415
real estate and
development interests.

166
00:05:40,415 --> 00:05:42,649
Farming and forestry,
no longer seen as

167
00:05:42,649 --> 00:05:44,090
reliable and
growing sources

168
00:05:44,090 --> 00:05:45,544
of employment and revenue.

169
00:05:45,544 --> 00:05:47,119
Even though the
value of farming to

170
00:05:47,119 --> 00:05:49,700
the local economy
continues to increase.

171
00:05:49,700 --> 00:05:51,079
Land-use ordinances

172
00:05:51,079 --> 00:05:52,310
are pure, poorly observed.

173
00:05:52,310 --> 00:05:53,750
An excellent farmland is

174
00:05:53,750 --> 00:05:54,770
parcel eyes and

175
00:05:54,770 --> 00:05:57,004
infiltrated with
conflicting uses.

176
00:05:57,004 --> 00:05:59,300
Often being reasonable,
rural, residential,

177
00:05:59,300 --> 00:06:00,589
and finally, being lost to

178
00:06:00,589 --> 00:06:02,434
the commercial
farm land base.

179
00:06:02,434 --> 00:06:04,039
Jackson County is not

180
00:06:04,039 --> 00:06:05,900
blessed with an abundance
of good farmland.

181
00:06:05,900 --> 00:06:08,149
The little land with
class 12 prime or

182
00:06:08,149 --> 00:06:10,280
unique soils is
all threatened

183
00:06:10,280 --> 00:06:12,844
by expansion of urban
growth boundaries.

184
00:06:12,844 --> 00:06:14,540
The remaining farmland,
which will be

185
00:06:14,540 --> 00:06:16,474
classified high,
high value,

186
00:06:16,474 --> 00:06:18,155
is mostly pear orchards,

187
00:06:18,155 --> 00:06:19,984
but unclass three
or four soils

188
00:06:19,984 --> 00:06:20,900
which are unsuitable

189
00:06:20,900 --> 00:06:22,370
for their
high-value crops.

190
00:06:22,370 --> 00:06:24,800
Most of Jackson County
irrigated farmland

191
00:06:24,800 --> 00:06:25,939
will not qualify for

192
00:06:25,939 --> 00:06:27,679
high land designation
because the crops

193
00:06:27,679 --> 00:06:30,095
are not classified
how high value?

194
00:06:30,095 --> 00:06:32,150
If that land need
not be mapped

195
00:06:32,150 --> 00:06:33,709
until the next
periodic review,

196
00:06:33,709 --> 00:06:35,165
which may be in ten years.

197
00:06:35,165 --> 00:06:36,829
Case-by-case designation

198
00:06:36,829 --> 00:06:38,299
will allow ample
opportunity

199
00:06:38,299 --> 00:06:40,099
to minimize the acreage

200
00:06:40,099 --> 00:06:41,944
having the greater
protection.

201
00:06:41,944 --> 00:06:42,860
Therefore,

202
00:06:42,860 --> 00:06:44,479
she suggests the
high-value mapping be

203
00:06:44,479 --> 00:06:45,665
required in two years

204
00:06:45,665 --> 00:06:47,435
or at the time and
experience for you.

205
00:06:47,435 --> 00:06:48,469
Because a lot of

206
00:06:48,469 --> 00:06:49,879
record provision
and provision,

207
00:06:49,879 --> 00:06:51,020
the reversal Smith and the

208
00:06:51,020 --> 00:06:52,744
provision for
non-farm dwellings.

209
00:06:52,744 --> 00:06:54,230
Jackson County can expect

210
00:06:54,230 --> 00:06:55,969
very large numbers
of approvals.

211
00:06:55,969 --> 00:06:57,695
The non-pharm
rural resonances.

212
00:06:57,695 --> 00:07:00,079
This housing presents a
very direct threat to

213
00:07:00,079 --> 00:07:01,310
the survival of

214
00:07:01,310 --> 00:07:02,929
the commercial tree
fruit industry.

215
00:07:02,929 --> 00:07:04,070
The rulemaking process

216
00:07:04,070 --> 00:07:05,600
should forestall
this threat.

217
00:07:05,600 --> 00:07:07,549
There is little need for

218
00:07:07,549 --> 00:07:09,500
additional rural housing
in Jackson County,

219
00:07:09,500 --> 00:07:10,909
but there is demand

220
00:07:10,909 --> 00:07:13,310
for housing from the
non farming immigrant.

221
00:07:13,310 --> 00:07:14,989
But there is limited
need in order to

222
00:07:14,989 --> 00:07:16,460
provide housing
for commercial,

223
00:07:16,460 --> 00:07:18,514
commercial farm
owners operators.

224
00:07:18,514 --> 00:07:20,059
There are already
too many houses.

225
00:07:20,059 --> 00:07:22,159
And commercial farming
is dramatically more

226
00:07:22,159 --> 00:07:24,380
threatened by excessive
numbers of houses.

227
00:07:24,380 --> 00:07:26,840
By any need for
farm owner housing.

228
00:07:26,840 --> 00:07:28,610
Low cost farm
labor housing

229
00:07:28,610 --> 00:07:29,855
is in short supply,

230
00:07:29,855 --> 00:07:31,715
but the infiltration
of intolerance,

231
00:07:31,715 --> 00:07:32,990
non-farm resonance into

232
00:07:32,990 --> 00:07:34,489
commercial
farming areas is

233
00:07:34,489 --> 00:07:35,960
actually a serious
barrier to

234
00:07:35,960 --> 00:07:36,529
the provision of

235
00:07:36,529 --> 00:07:38,210
additional farm
labor housing.

236
00:07:38,210 --> 00:07:40,249
The commission rules
should not permit

237
00:07:40,249 --> 00:07:42,514
non-farm dwellings
and high-value land.

238
00:07:42,514 --> 00:07:43,820
And in fact, I
believe that

239
00:07:43,820 --> 00:07:45,680
no non-farm houses should

240
00:07:45,680 --> 00:07:47,949
be added to the stock
already existing.

241
00:07:47,949 --> 00:07:49,729
Willamette Valley
may be fairly

242
00:07:49,729 --> 00:07:51,590
well served by 36 61,

243
00:07:51,590 --> 00:07:53,105
the suggested
rule changes,

244
00:07:53,105 --> 00:07:54,799
but better protection
is needed for

245
00:07:54,799 --> 00:07:56,959
commercial farmers
in Jackson County.

246
00:07:56,959 --> 00:07:58,730
Because of
political realities

247
00:07:58,730 --> 00:08:00,140
at the local level, level,

248
00:08:00,140 --> 00:08:02,360
support for farm
Forest Land Protection

249
00:08:02,360 --> 00:08:03,980
must come from
the state level.

250
00:08:03,980 --> 00:08:05,780
This is one of the
admirable functions

251
00:08:05,780 --> 00:08:07,009
of the commission to take

252
00:08:07,009 --> 00:08:08,689
responsibility for
farsighted but

253
00:08:08,689 --> 00:08:10,759
locally unpopular
land use,

254
00:08:10,759 --> 00:08:12,005
regular relations.

255
00:08:12,005 --> 00:08:14,314
Thank you for your
courteous attention.

256
00:08:14,314 --> 00:08:16,775
Thank you very much.

257
00:08:16,775 --> 00:08:19,439
Leslie Elliot.

258
00:08:28,870 --> 00:08:31,670
I'm Leslie Iliad and I'm

259
00:08:31,670 --> 00:08:34,594
here from Jefferson
County today.

260
00:08:34,594 --> 00:08:36,410
I'm also director
and the soil and

261
00:08:36,410 --> 00:08:38,329
water conservation
district and

262
00:08:38,329 --> 00:08:39,140
I'm a member of

263
00:08:39,140 --> 00:08:40,535
the Jefferson
County Farm Bureau,

264
00:08:40,535 --> 00:08:43,220
but I'm only representing
myself today.

265
00:08:43,220 --> 00:08:45,214
I'm really concerned about

266
00:08:45,214 --> 00:08:47,930
the definition of
high-value farmland in,

267
00:08:47,930 --> 00:08:49,649
as it's written up in 36,

268
00:08:49,649 --> 00:08:54,150
61, and how it would
apply to goal three.

269
00:08:54,460 --> 00:08:57,650
There is information
in there

270
00:08:57,650 --> 00:09:00,035
about specify
perennials and

271
00:09:00,035 --> 00:09:02,150
would only be
considered high

272
00:09:02,150 --> 00:09:05,045
value and that
no seed crops,

273
00:09:05,045 --> 00:09:07,865
hey, paste or
alfalfa qualify.

274
00:09:07,865 --> 00:09:09,755
I guess they see
this as a very

275
00:09:09,755 --> 00:09:11,555
shallow and
sacrificial assessment

276
00:09:11,555 --> 00:09:13,550
and evaluation
of agriculture

277
00:09:13,550 --> 00:09:15,530
in our part of the state.

278
00:09:15,530 --> 00:09:17,989
In Jefferson
County in 1993,

279
00:09:17,989 --> 00:09:19,309
agricultural production

280
00:09:19,309 --> 00:09:21,410
totaled over $50 million.

281
00:09:21,410 --> 00:09:23,420
And many of the perennial

282
00:09:23,420 --> 00:09:25,144
and annual seed crops

283
00:09:25,144 --> 00:09:27,080
in Jefferson County,

284
00:09:27,080 --> 00:09:30,410
such as garlic, came in

285
00:09:30,410 --> 00:09:33,544
at over $2,300 per
acre last year.

286
00:09:33,544 --> 00:09:36,789
Onions at 4/4000
dollars an acre parcel

287
00:09:36,789 --> 00:09:38,795
at over $3,000 an acre,

288
00:09:38,795 --> 00:09:42,529
and carrots it over
$3,000 an acre.

289
00:09:42,529 --> 00:09:43,970
And we grow many others.

290
00:09:43,970 --> 00:09:46,430
See crops that are of a
pretty high valuation

291
00:09:46,430 --> 00:09:47,719
to like bluegrass seed

292
00:09:47,719 --> 00:09:49,160
vegetables and flowers.

293
00:09:49,160 --> 00:09:51,469
And I guess these crops,

294
00:09:51,469 --> 00:09:53,239
I see them as being

295
00:09:53,239 --> 00:09:56,300
producing an
evaluation that may

296
00:09:56,300 --> 00:09:58,669
be the same or
more than many of

297
00:09:58,669 --> 00:10:01,579
the so-called
specified perennials.

298
00:10:01,579 --> 00:10:03,079
And I'm really
concerned about that.

299
00:10:03,079 --> 00:10:04,460
I'm also concerned about

300
00:10:04,460 --> 00:10:07,580
the prime unique
class one or two

301
00:10:07,580 --> 00:10:11,224
designation
because we have

302
00:10:11,224 --> 00:10:13,250
in Jefferson County and
we tried to map it.

303
00:10:13,250 --> 00:10:14,119
And if you're interested,

304
00:10:14,119 --> 00:10:14,974
I'll show you the map.

305
00:10:14,974 --> 00:10:18,695
We tried to map out
areas that were not

306
00:10:18,695 --> 00:10:21,169
designated as prime
are unique and

307
00:10:21,169 --> 00:10:24,139
yet they grow many of
these high-value crops.

308
00:10:24,139 --> 00:10:27,140
And I guess my
understanding

309
00:10:27,140 --> 00:10:29,225
is the way that your
rule reads at present,

310
00:10:29,225 --> 00:10:31,565
those areas wouldn't
be protected.

311
00:10:31,565 --> 00:10:34,159
I'm very, very
concerned about that.

312
00:10:34,159 --> 00:10:35,960
And many of the crops

313
00:10:35,960 --> 00:10:37,504
that we grow in
Jefferson County,

314
00:10:37,504 --> 00:10:39,499
they're not growing
here in the valley,

315
00:10:39,499 --> 00:10:42,830
and so they are
unique to our area.

316
00:10:42,830 --> 00:10:46,309
And I feel it's

317
00:10:46,309 --> 00:10:49,835
really important that
we protect those areas.

318
00:10:49,835 --> 00:10:53,524
Another point that I
want to bring up is that

319
00:10:53,524 --> 00:10:55,370
in getting information or

320
00:10:55,370 --> 00:10:57,740
synopsis is about 36,

321
00:10:57,740 --> 00:10:59,060
61 and how it was gonna

322
00:10:59,060 --> 00:11:00,964
be going into gold III.

323
00:11:00,964 --> 00:11:03,275
I don't think
the information

324
00:11:03,275 --> 00:11:04,250
was put out well,

325
00:11:04,250 --> 00:11:06,860
so that those of us
in Jefferson County

326
00:11:06,860 --> 00:11:09,710
understood what the
high-definition

327
00:11:09,710 --> 00:11:11,854
was going to be. Weird.

328
00:11:11,854 --> 00:11:12,680
We're kind of like,

329
00:11:12,680 --> 00:11:14,134
Whoa, what's
happened here?

330
00:11:14,134 --> 00:11:19,189
And those of us that
are farming full-time,

331
00:11:19,189 --> 00:11:20,240
it's very difficult for us

332
00:11:20,240 --> 00:11:21,979
sometimes to participate.

333
00:11:21,979 --> 00:11:23,869
And now here we are at

334
00:11:23,869 --> 00:11:25,970
this point and
this stuff's been

335
00:11:25,970 --> 00:11:28,099
adopted and we're very

336
00:11:28,099 --> 00:11:29,600
concerned about it
because it doesn't

337
00:11:29,600 --> 00:11:32,105
represent our
interests in Jefferson

338
00:11:32,105 --> 00:11:34,999
or other parts of central
and eastern Oregon.

339
00:11:34,999 --> 00:11:38,855
And I guess I really
feel it's important that

340
00:11:38,855 --> 00:11:40,685
we not value land

341
00:11:40,685 --> 00:11:43,010
according to
specified perennials.

342
00:11:43,010 --> 00:11:47,719
And I think that
it's important that

343
00:11:47,719 --> 00:11:49,759
maybe what is listed in

344
00:11:49,759 --> 00:11:54,515
your high-value concerns
that the number two,

345
00:11:54,515 --> 00:11:56,719
the 1992 definitions be

346
00:11:56,719 --> 00:11:58,985
retained if at
all possible.

347
00:11:58,985 --> 00:12:00,990
Thank you.

348
00:12:01,900 --> 00:12:03,950
Yeah. I'd like to see

349
00:12:03,950 --> 00:12:05,285
them as Leslie,
have a man.

350
00:12:05,285 --> 00:12:07,220
Yeah. It's kind
of a big one.

351
00:12:07,220 --> 00:12:08,720
Once you use the map to

352
00:12:08,720 --> 00:12:11,489
demonstrate to
us your concern.

353
00:12:17,290 --> 00:12:20,120
We hit, we were
doing the best job

354
00:12:20,120 --> 00:12:21,814
and so it is not complete.

355
00:12:21,814 --> 00:12:22,999
It basically covers

356
00:12:22,999 --> 00:12:24,785
the North unit
Irrigation District.

357
00:12:24,785 --> 00:12:27,899
It does not cover all
Jefferson County.

358
00:12:42,640 --> 00:12:47,074
Cross cats areas are
areas that would not

359
00:12:47,074 --> 00:12:48,739
be designated as prime are

360
00:12:48,739 --> 00:12:50,900
unique and yet grow.

361
00:12:50,900 --> 00:12:52,940
Some of these seed,

362
00:12:52,940 --> 00:12:54,994
annual seed crops that

363
00:12:54,994 --> 00:12:57,605
are able to produce
some high valuation.

364
00:12:57,605 --> 00:12:59,299
Could you, with
your hand just

365
00:12:59,299 --> 00:13:02,389
maybe do a circle
motion around the area.

366
00:13:02,389 --> 00:13:03,530
It would primarily covered

367
00:13:03,530 --> 00:13:04,894
this area right here.

368
00:13:04,894 --> 00:13:06,769
And you see the dark.

369
00:13:06,769 --> 00:13:08,509
That's well,

370
00:13:08,509 --> 00:13:10,790
it's faded it because
this is a copy.

371
00:13:10,790 --> 00:13:13,685
But that's where
crops are growing.

372
00:13:13,685 --> 00:13:18,734
And there's an area
right down in here too.

373
00:13:18,734 --> 00:13:22,839
And there's other fans
this, and that's fine.

374
00:13:22,839 --> 00:13:24,715
There's these areas too.

375
00:13:24,715 --> 00:13:27,460
And there's others
here too that

376
00:13:27,460 --> 00:13:29,349
are that would not be

377
00:13:29,349 --> 00:13:32,360
protected as high value.

378
00:13:33,150 --> 00:13:35,709
The very darker as
though you have

379
00:13:35,709 --> 00:13:37,270
some shaded areas
besides that,

380
00:13:37,270 --> 00:13:39,745
but they're not
growing crops.

381
00:13:39,745 --> 00:13:41,019
Where are you?

382
00:13:41,019 --> 00:13:42,474
Well, here.

383
00:13:42,474 --> 00:13:45,925
Well, no further over
there, some blue here.

384
00:13:45,925 --> 00:13:48,534
Yeah, this is prime
and unique. Okay?

385
00:13:48,534 --> 00:13:50,170
This qualifies as priming.

386
00:13:50,170 --> 00:13:52,270
These are, these
are lands that

387
00:13:52,270 --> 00:13:54,849
very possibly grow the
sting prompts here,

388
00:13:54,849 --> 00:13:56,590
but they're not
designated as priming

389
00:13:56,590 --> 00:13:59,319
Union were concerned that

390
00:13:59,319 --> 00:14:01,450
they were not going to be.

391
00:14:01,450 --> 00:14:03,309
Do you know for certain

392
00:14:03,309 --> 00:14:05,170
whether those soil
mapping units

393
00:14:05,170 --> 00:14:07,419
you say that would
not qualify.

394
00:14:07,419 --> 00:14:09,955
Do they become
prime unique,

395
00:14:09,955 --> 00:14:12,879
class one or class
two with irrigation?

396
00:14:12,879 --> 00:14:14,455
That at this point,

397
00:14:14,455 --> 00:14:16,240
I can't give a
full synopsis

398
00:14:16,240 --> 00:14:18,279
of that because
as you know,

399
00:14:18,279 --> 00:14:20,860
that doesn't make
a big difference.

400
00:14:20,860 --> 00:14:22,999
And most the end,

401
00:14:23,820 --> 00:14:26,169
I think most
of these areas

402
00:14:26,169 --> 00:14:29,274
are and there may
be there may be

403
00:14:29,274 --> 00:14:31,689
reasons such as
a flood plain or

404
00:14:31,689 --> 00:14:34,060
that would
disqualify them as

405
00:14:34,060 --> 00:14:35,800
training you need to

406
00:14:35,800 --> 00:14:39,099
so that even though
they're on a floodplain,

407
00:14:39,099 --> 00:14:40,659
they're still
producing the crop.

408
00:14:40,659 --> 00:14:42,159
And so I guess my feeling

409
00:14:42,159 --> 00:14:44,809
is they should
still be protected.

410
00:14:45,550 --> 00:14:48,769
Lesly, Have you draw

411
00:14:48,769 --> 00:14:50,270
on your concern of
you thought you're

412
00:14:50,270 --> 00:14:52,415
concerned through
far enough to have

413
00:14:52,415 --> 00:14:54,199
a recommendation on how

414
00:14:54,199 --> 00:14:55,429
the definition might be

415
00:14:55,429 --> 00:14:57,574
changed to accommodate
your concern?

416
00:14:57,574 --> 00:15:00,620
I guess my feeling
it I realized

417
00:15:00,620 --> 00:15:01,849
that I'm really

418
00:15:01,849 --> 00:15:03,844
a lay person when
it comes to this.

419
00:15:03,844 --> 00:15:05,585
That you need to

420
00:15:05,585 --> 00:15:09,569
consider more
than class 1.2.

421
00:15:11,440 --> 00:15:14,554
And it needs to

422
00:15:14,554 --> 00:15:17,089
have language in
there that might be

423
00:15:17,089 --> 00:15:19,640
specific to Central
and Eastern Oregon

424
00:15:19,640 --> 00:15:20,750
and our way of

425
00:15:20,750 --> 00:15:22,414
agriculture because
like I said,

426
00:15:22,414 --> 00:15:24,125
many of the crops
that we produce,

427
00:15:24,125 --> 00:15:26,375
they're not produced
here in the valley.

428
00:15:26,375 --> 00:15:28,385
So I guess my
feeling is they do,

429
00:15:28,385 --> 00:15:30,590
and they are high-value.

430
00:15:30,590 --> 00:15:32,839
They deserve just
as much protection

431
00:15:32,839 --> 00:15:34,190
as what might be
happening here.

432
00:15:34,190 --> 00:15:36,320
And the boy with valley.

433
00:15:36,320 --> 00:15:41,374
And, you know,

434
00:15:41,374 --> 00:15:43,909
you made reference
to the 990s

435
00:15:43,909 --> 00:15:46,295
to definition. Yeah.

436
00:15:46,295 --> 00:15:48,860
You feel that was
just an improvement

437
00:15:48,860 --> 00:15:50,779
or did you feel
that was added?

438
00:15:50,779 --> 00:15:56,480
That's a good
question. I think

439
00:15:56,480 --> 00:15:58,429
it under the circumstances
at this point in

440
00:15:58,429 --> 00:16:01,339
time that it would be
adequate to protect us.

441
00:16:01,339 --> 00:16:06,270
And I am I would like
to see that maintained.

442
00:16:08,860 --> 00:16:12,860
What would you agree that

443
00:16:12,860 --> 00:16:14,420
any of the high-value

444
00:16:14,420 --> 00:16:16,220
specialty crops
have to be,

445
00:16:16,220 --> 00:16:18,499
or you almost all

446
00:16:18,499 --> 00:16:20,179
probably have to be in

447
00:16:20,179 --> 00:16:21,950
central, in
Central Oregon.

448
00:16:21,950 --> 00:16:23,300
And we add an Eastern

449
00:16:23,300 --> 00:16:24,649
Oregon and in
Eastern Oregon.

450
00:16:24,649 --> 00:16:26,854
And we have special
conditions too because of

451
00:16:26,854 --> 00:16:29,750
our growing season
limitations

452
00:16:29,750 --> 00:16:35,194
and those sorts of things
plane to this too.

453
00:16:35,194 --> 00:16:37,010
And at the same time,

454
00:16:37,010 --> 00:16:38,539
because of those
growing conditions,

455
00:16:38,539 --> 00:16:41,194
it does sometimes make
us uniquely qualified

456
00:16:41,194 --> 00:16:42,589
to grow certain crops that

457
00:16:42,589 --> 00:16:44,644
wouldn't grow
well elsewhere.

458
00:16:44,644 --> 00:16:47,105
But my main point is

459
00:16:47,105 --> 00:16:49,520
that any of those
high-value crops,

460
00:16:49,520 --> 00:16:52,459
at least in my area
that I'm from beer.

461
00:16:52,459 --> 00:16:53,180
Yeah.

462
00:16:53,180 --> 00:16:53,659
Yes.

463
00:16:53,659 --> 00:16:55,849
I think you're
probably right.

464
00:16:55,849 --> 00:16:57,769
Maybe an extension
of that.

465
00:16:57,769 --> 00:17:00,800
Of the areas that you
identified on the map,

466
00:17:00,800 --> 00:17:02,990
are those primarily
irrigated areas?

467
00:17:02,990 --> 00:17:08,900
Yes, they are. Okay.

468
00:17:08,900 --> 00:17:12,989
Thank you very much.
On Schellenberg.

469
00:17:27,270 --> 00:17:29,110
Thank you, Mr. Chairman,

470
00:17:29,110 --> 00:17:30,399
members of the
commission? I'm done.

471
00:17:30,399 --> 00:17:31,899
Schoenberg, Associate
Director of

472
00:17:31,899 --> 00:17:33,040
Governmental Affairs from

473
00:17:33,040 --> 00:17:34,884
the Oregon Farm Bureau.

474
00:17:34,884 --> 00:17:37,630
Foreign bureaus,
disappointed that

475
00:17:37,630 --> 00:17:43,419
the draft goal in 303.4
proposals before you

476
00:17:43,419 --> 00:17:47,079
today not contain our
requested reference to

477
00:17:47,079 --> 00:17:49,090
the legislative
policy language on

478
00:17:49,090 --> 00:17:52,075
protecting farm uses
and forest practices.

479
00:17:52,075 --> 00:17:56,200
The protection
provided by 30.930,

480
00:17:56,200 --> 00:17:58,959
2947 is a key ingredient,

481
00:17:58,959 --> 00:18:01,269
reducing conflict
in light of

482
00:18:01,269 --> 00:18:03,040
the additional
residences that can

483
00:18:03,040 --> 00:18:05,620
now be established
on lots of record,

484
00:18:05,620 --> 00:18:07,299
the Oregon Farm
Bureau asked

485
00:18:07,299 --> 00:18:08,679
that the Statutory
site for

486
00:18:08,679 --> 00:18:10,720
the legislative policy on

487
00:18:10,720 --> 00:18:11,829
the protection
of farming and

488
00:18:11,829 --> 00:18:13,029
forest practices,

489
00:18:13,029 --> 00:18:16,210
that being 30.933 be

490
00:18:16,210 --> 00:18:20,845
inserted after ORS on
line five of page one,

491
00:18:20,845 --> 00:18:24,339
on line six of page two,

492
00:18:24,339 --> 00:18:26,140
that it'd be amended
by inserting

493
00:18:26,140 --> 00:18:29,005
the same reference
after ORS.

494
00:18:29,005 --> 00:18:31,419
The addition of this
reference on page

495
00:18:31,419 --> 00:18:32,530
two is consistent with

496
00:18:32,530 --> 00:18:33,774
the language and
that second,

497
00:18:33,774 --> 00:18:36,189
noting the significant
adverse effects

498
00:18:36,189 --> 00:18:37,764
on farming forest uses,

499
00:18:37,764 --> 00:18:40,060
that zoning and
minimum lot sizes

500
00:18:40,060 --> 00:18:41,610
are supposed to minimize.

501
00:18:41,610 --> 00:18:43,070
These two additions will

502
00:18:43,070 --> 00:18:44,599
complement and complete

503
00:18:44,599 --> 00:18:46,070
the existing references to

504
00:18:46,070 --> 00:18:48,275
legislative land
use policies.

505
00:18:48,275 --> 00:18:51,470
Same reference
should be added to

506
00:18:51,470 --> 00:18:52,909
the implementation
section of

507
00:18:52,909 --> 00:18:54,739
goal for our embryo.

508
00:18:54,739 --> 00:18:56,900
Asked that the SEC
sentence on lines

509
00:18:56,900 --> 00:18:58,399
five through seven of page

510
00:18:58,399 --> 00:19:00,200
to be amended to read,

511
00:19:00,200 --> 00:19:02,569
citing standards
shall be designed

512
00:19:02,569 --> 00:19:04,790
to make allowed uses
compatible with

513
00:19:04,790 --> 00:19:07,474
forest and agricultural
operations

514
00:19:07,474 --> 00:19:10,924
as described in
RS thrill 0.933.

515
00:19:10,924 --> 00:19:12,769
And to conserve, value

516
00:19:12,769 --> 00:19:15,300
is found on forest lands.

517
00:19:16,990 --> 00:19:20,179
In December, the
Oregon Farm Bureau

518
00:19:20,179 --> 00:19:22,280
opposed proposed language

519
00:19:22,280 --> 00:19:27,989
and goal three on lines
22.23 of page one.

520
00:19:28,630 --> 00:19:30,889
When I make references

521
00:19:30,889 --> 00:19:33,425
to pages now I'm
referring to

522
00:19:33,425 --> 00:19:36,229
this recent one weather

523
00:19:36,229 --> 00:19:38,180
than the one back
in December,

524
00:19:38,180 --> 00:19:39,619
which appeared to give the

525
00:19:39,619 --> 00:19:41,090
Commission the
authority to

526
00:19:41,090 --> 00:19:44,435
define farm or forest
practices by rule.

527
00:19:44,435 --> 00:19:46,399
At that hearing,
staff said

528
00:19:46,399 --> 00:19:48,049
that my interpretation
was not

529
00:19:48,049 --> 00:19:50,299
what was intended after

530
00:19:50,299 --> 00:19:51,694
studying the new draft.

531
00:19:51,694 --> 00:19:54,245
I believe I now
understand the intent,

532
00:19:54,245 --> 00:19:56,150
but strongly recommend to

533
00:19:56,150 --> 00:19:58,100
punctuation
changes that will

534
00:19:58,100 --> 00:19:59,870
make the intent clear.

535
00:19:59,870 --> 00:20:02,180
Simply insert
a comma after

536
00:20:02,180 --> 00:20:04,999
the word uses on line 22.

537
00:20:04,999 --> 00:20:06,499
Insert a comma after

538
00:20:06,499 --> 00:20:09,214
the word practices
on line 23.

539
00:20:09,214 --> 00:20:11,390
These changes would
make it clear that

540
00:20:11,390 --> 00:20:13,340
it is the non-farm
uses that

541
00:20:13,340 --> 00:20:14,990
the commission
is defining by

542
00:20:14,990 --> 00:20:18,959
rule and not the farm
and forest practices.

543
00:20:19,000 --> 00:20:21,499
Finally, Farm
Bureau asked that

544
00:20:21,499 --> 00:20:23,269
the commission carry
over to another meeting

545
00:20:23,269 --> 00:20:25,040
the issue of adopting
criteria for

546
00:20:25,040 --> 00:20:26,975
the establishment
of farm dwellings.

547
00:20:26,975 --> 00:20:28,220
That's an issue
that still needs

548
00:20:28,220 --> 00:20:31,325
considerable review
before being adopted.

549
00:20:31,325 --> 00:20:34,025
Attached to my testimony.

550
00:20:34,025 --> 00:20:35,600
For your review at

551
00:20:35,600 --> 00:20:39,020
your pleasure is
a position that

552
00:20:39,020 --> 00:20:41,300
the Oregon farm bill
board of directors

553
00:20:41,300 --> 00:20:45,420
has taken on a criteria
for farm dwelling.

554
00:20:46,330 --> 00:20:48,679
So I'll leave that at

555
00:20:48,679 --> 00:20:50,030
that we would
like to see what

556
00:20:50,030 --> 00:20:51,289
the technical
review committee

557
00:20:51,289 --> 00:20:52,309
is going to come up with

558
00:20:52,309 --> 00:20:56,150
and and take a position
on that as well.

559
00:20:56,150 --> 00:20:57,709
I would make a comment

560
00:20:57,709 --> 00:20:58,849
relative to Mr. Chairman,

561
00:20:58,849 --> 00:21:02,299
you asked another
testify or

562
00:21:02,299 --> 00:21:06,979
a question about
golf courses,

563
00:21:06,979 --> 00:21:08,869
about churches and so on.

564
00:21:08,869 --> 00:21:11,600
The farm bureau
policy does

565
00:21:11,600 --> 00:21:13,699
support changing

566
00:21:13,699 --> 00:21:15,469
public or private
schools and

567
00:21:15,469 --> 00:21:18,139
churches front
from the list of

568
00:21:18,139 --> 00:21:20,194
statutory permitted uses

569
00:21:20,194 --> 00:21:22,430
in high-value farmland.

570
00:21:22,430 --> 00:21:24,109
And we support deletion of

571
00:21:24,109 --> 00:21:25,399
golf courses from the list

572
00:21:25,399 --> 00:21:26,555
of conditional uses.

573
00:21:26,555 --> 00:21:27,649
In other words,
we would want to

574
00:21:27,649 --> 00:21:29,029
make churches
and schools that

575
00:21:29,029 --> 00:21:32,180
conditional use and make
golf courses not an

576
00:21:32,180 --> 00:21:34,129
allowed to use except

577
00:21:34,129 --> 00:21:36,719
in urban growth
boundaries.

578
00:21:36,820 --> 00:21:41,765
I would also take this
opportunity to second

579
00:21:41,765 --> 00:21:46,880
the testimony that was

580
00:21:46,880 --> 00:21:48,995
given from Bedford area.

581
00:21:48,995 --> 00:21:51,155
That letter that was read,

582
00:21:51,155 --> 00:21:52,910
I had occasion yesterday

583
00:21:52,910 --> 00:21:54,815
I was in Jackson County

584
00:21:54,815 --> 00:21:59,029
talking with an excellent

585
00:21:59,029 --> 00:22:00,320
paragraphs are down there.

586
00:22:00,320 --> 00:22:02,825
And unbeknownst to me,

587
00:22:02,825 --> 00:22:04,744
he could have
written that letter

588
00:22:04,744 --> 00:22:06,724
the way it was drafted.

589
00:22:06,724 --> 00:22:08,989
And that is a very strong

590
00:22:08,989 --> 00:22:10,189
concerned on there and I'd

591
00:22:10,189 --> 00:22:12,320
just like to relay
that to you.

592
00:22:12,320 --> 00:22:14,119
That would be
the extent of

593
00:22:14,119 --> 00:22:16,070
my comments unless
you have questions.

594
00:22:16,070 --> 00:22:17,824
Let me ask a question.

595
00:22:17,824 --> 00:22:20,299
How would you
interpret that concern

596
00:22:20,299 --> 00:22:22,730
that came out of
Jackson County in

597
00:22:22,730 --> 00:22:24,350
relation to actions that

598
00:22:24,350 --> 00:22:25,970
are being considered
and it should

599
00:22:25,970 --> 00:22:27,320
ultimately be taken by

600
00:22:27,320 --> 00:22:30,780
that commission in
relation to these rules.

601
00:22:37,630 --> 00:22:40,235
Commissioner, true?
That's a good question.

602
00:22:40,235 --> 00:22:44,180
I'm not exactly sure
how to answer that.

603
00:22:44,180 --> 00:22:47,344
They are they feel
like they're in a box.

604
00:22:47,344 --> 00:22:50,599
The very definitely,
and they're

605
00:22:50,599 --> 00:22:51,860
being prohibited from

606
00:22:51,860 --> 00:22:54,275
doing the farming
practices.

607
00:22:54,275 --> 00:22:56,644
Not by the land-use laws,

608
00:22:56,644 --> 00:22:58,940
but by the public.

609
00:22:58,940 --> 00:23:03,079
And yet they have
very valuable land.

610
00:23:03,079 --> 00:23:06,139
And yet the land-use laws,

611
00:23:06,139 --> 00:23:08,810
if they're prohibited
from harming

612
00:23:08,810 --> 00:23:10,219
those properties
in a way that

613
00:23:10,219 --> 00:23:12,079
will continue to
yield a profit.

614
00:23:12,079 --> 00:23:14,029
They're just gonna
have to walk away from

615
00:23:14,029 --> 00:23:17,885
them because they can't
make a living on it.

616
00:23:17,885 --> 00:23:20,374
And they would not be
able to sell them.

617
00:23:20,374 --> 00:23:22,099
And yet the land is very

618
00:23:22,099 --> 00:23:24,605
valuable for
development purposes.

619
00:23:24,605 --> 00:23:26,779
They're not
really asking to

620
00:23:26,779 --> 00:23:29,060
have their cake
and eat it too.

621
00:23:29,060 --> 00:23:32,360
They would they need help.

622
00:23:32,360 --> 00:23:34,130
And I think that's where

623
00:23:34,130 --> 00:23:37,384
were the reference at
least to the right,

624
00:23:37,384 --> 00:23:39,844
the right to farm laws
that were asking for,

625
00:23:39,844 --> 00:23:44,870
it becomes an important
part of goal.

626
00:23:44,870 --> 00:23:46,775
But that reference
be in there,

627
00:23:46,775 --> 00:23:49,440
maybe just for
that very purpose.

628
00:23:51,730 --> 00:23:53,449
Okay.

629
00:23:53,449 --> 00:23:57,394
Donna, these folks
in an EFT zone,

630
00:23:57,394 --> 00:23:59,870
so they get the
protection from the right

631
00:23:59,870 --> 00:24:01,775
to foreign law
that was amended.

632
00:24:01,775 --> 00:24:02,840
Do they feel that

633
00:24:02,840 --> 00:24:05,699
that's not going
to help them?

634
00:24:06,760 --> 00:24:09,169
There are of
course not sure.

635
00:24:09,169 --> 00:24:11,384
There are still
some questions.

636
00:24:11,384 --> 00:24:13,704
There are some
people feel it's

637
00:24:13,704 --> 00:24:17,514
unconstitutional
at all anyway,

638
00:24:17,514 --> 00:24:19,570
and will not offer any
protection at all.

639
00:24:19,570 --> 00:24:21,399
We hope of course that
that's not the case.

640
00:24:21,399 --> 00:24:22,975
We believe that's
not the case,

641
00:24:22,975 --> 00:24:25,749
but I believe it
will help them.

642
00:24:25,749 --> 00:24:27,880
Yes. And they
just don't have

643
00:24:27,880 --> 00:24:29,230
enough any experience with

644
00:24:29,230 --> 00:24:30,910
that to feel comfortable.

645
00:24:30,910 --> 00:24:32,529
But our problem is

646
00:24:32,529 --> 00:24:34,465
now solved because
we have that.

647
00:24:34,465 --> 00:24:36,369
I think they're hoping
that's the case,

648
00:24:36,369 --> 00:24:39,260
of course, but
wouldn't know that.

649
00:24:41,430 --> 00:24:43,630
You have a question.

650
00:24:43,630 --> 00:24:45,474
Thank you, Dawn. Thank
you, Mr. Chairman.

651
00:24:45,474 --> 00:24:47,509
Fred Curtis.

652
00:24:57,210 --> 00:24:58,824
I might

653
00:24:58,824 --> 00:25:00,550
call him at a
branch coming up,

654
00:25:00,550 --> 00:25:03,130
but it would appear
that will be continuing

655
00:25:03,130 --> 00:25:06,219
the hearing
following the blood.

656
00:25:06,219 --> 00:25:09,355
So we don't get
to you before 12.

657
00:25:09,355 --> 00:25:12,310
We're going to
dwell anyway.

658
00:25:12,310 --> 00:25:14,139
Go ahead, Mr. Chairman,

659
00:25:14,139 --> 00:25:16,150
Commissioners, my
name is Brent Curtis.

660
00:25:16,150 --> 00:25:17,620
I'm with Washington
County with me

661
00:25:17,620 --> 00:25:19,825
today also as
Joanne rice and

662
00:25:19,825 --> 00:25:21,909
she is with
Washington County as

663
00:25:21,909 --> 00:25:24,400
well and has signed up.

664
00:25:24,400 --> 00:25:25,810
And I your indulgence.

665
00:25:25,810 --> 00:25:28,345
We'd like to both make
our presentation.

666
00:25:28,345 --> 00:25:31,390
Washington Counties
comments are included

667
00:25:31,390 --> 00:25:32,589
in this packet
of information

668
00:25:32,589 --> 00:25:34,089
that's coming
around to you.

669
00:25:34,089 --> 00:25:37,130
Our overall recommendation
to you is we'd

670
00:25:37,130 --> 00:25:40,220
like you to consider
the comments

671
00:25:40,220 --> 00:25:42,019
that were providing you

672
00:25:42,019 --> 00:25:44,119
and continue the hearing

673
00:25:44,119 --> 00:25:45,620
and your consideration of

674
00:25:45,620 --> 00:25:46,999
the issues that
we've identified

675
00:25:46,999 --> 00:25:49,070
to your February meeting.

676
00:25:49,070 --> 00:25:51,544
We've included

677
00:25:51,544 --> 00:25:53,119
beyond the cover
letter and number of

678
00:25:53,119 --> 00:25:54,860
attachments and I'd
like to quickly tell

679
00:25:54,860 --> 00:25:57,244
you some of the
purpose of those.

680
00:25:57,244 --> 00:25:59,180
I want to explain
all of them.

681
00:25:59,180 --> 00:26:01,669
The first attachment
includes our comments

682
00:26:01,669 --> 00:26:04,369
about the rule
and the issues as

683
00:26:04,369 --> 00:26:07,760
we read the proposed
staff response and

684
00:26:07,760 --> 00:26:10,039
the items that are

685
00:26:10,039 --> 00:26:12,440
before you today for
your consideration.

686
00:26:12,440 --> 00:26:14,689
The second,
third, and fourth

687
00:26:14,689 --> 00:26:19,219
attachments provide
are recommended.

688
00:26:19,219 --> 00:26:21,590
Amendments that we
would offer you

689
00:26:21,590 --> 00:26:23,914
in regard to the goal.

690
00:26:23,914 --> 00:26:25,640
That is golf three,

691
00:26:25,640 --> 00:26:27,440
the goal three
rule and also go

692
00:26:27,440 --> 00:26:30,814
for I want at this point,

693
00:26:30,814 --> 00:26:32,989
talk about those
in detail.

694
00:26:32,989 --> 00:26:34,414
What rather I
would like to talk

695
00:26:34,414 --> 00:26:36,949
about is hospital 36,

696
00:26:36,949 --> 00:26:40,550
61 and a dilemma that
we only very recently

697
00:26:40,550 --> 00:26:43,430
discovered we could
potentially be in through

698
00:26:43,430 --> 00:26:44,839
the drafting of the

699
00:26:44,839 --> 00:26:47,404
Golden Rule language
player staff.

700
00:26:47,404 --> 00:26:51,814
We believed through
the adoption of.

701
00:26:51,814 --> 00:26:54,005
Hospital 36, 61,

702
00:26:54,005 --> 00:26:56,359
that the legislature
provided for

703
00:26:56,359 --> 00:26:58,160
Washington County
and link county to

704
00:26:58,160 --> 00:27:01,160
maintain their approach

705
00:27:01,160 --> 00:27:02,360
to agricultural lands.

706
00:27:02,360 --> 00:27:04,700
That is the marginal
lands approach.

707
00:27:04,700 --> 00:27:08,720
And we worked very
hard at doing that by

708
00:27:08,720 --> 00:27:11,659
participating on
the Senate side

709
00:27:11,659 --> 00:27:12,739
and from the Senate Ag and

710
00:27:12,739 --> 00:27:14,315
Natural Resources
Committee.

711
00:27:14,315 --> 00:27:16,279
And if I could ask you

712
00:27:16,279 --> 00:27:18,050
to turn your attention
to attachment five,

713
00:27:18,050 --> 00:27:19,940
which is
apportioning excerpt

714
00:27:19,940 --> 00:27:24,200
from being grossed
hospital 36 61.

715
00:27:24,200 --> 00:27:26,900
And it specifically,
I want

716
00:27:26,900 --> 00:27:31,610
to call your attention
to sections 28.29.

717
00:27:31,610 --> 00:27:35,435
Section 28 is
the second page,

718
00:27:35,435 --> 00:27:36,559
n and this attachment,

719
00:27:36,559 --> 00:27:39,260
the first the first
page is the Bill,

720
00:27:39,260 --> 00:27:41,659
identifying the bill,
the cover page.

721
00:27:41,659 --> 00:27:44,420
And significantly,

722
00:27:44,420 --> 00:27:46,219
if you look at the
summary document,

723
00:27:46,219 --> 00:27:47,374
the summary of the bill,

724
00:27:47,374 --> 00:27:49,699
the second paragraph is

725
00:27:49,699 --> 00:27:51,304
really a key point for us.

726
00:27:51,304 --> 00:27:53,300
The summary is pretty

727
00:27:53,300 --> 00:27:55,294
indicative of what
I want to point to.

728
00:27:55,294 --> 00:27:58,159
It says prohibits LCD
see from identifying or

729
00:27:58,159 --> 00:27:59,555
designating small-scale

730
00:27:59,555 --> 00:28:01,565
farmland or
secondary land.

731
00:28:01,565 --> 00:28:04,729
Circumscribes LCD sees
rulemaking authority

732
00:28:04,729 --> 00:28:06,379
allows counties
to continue to

733
00:28:06,379 --> 00:28:08,060
apply marginal
and provisions

734
00:28:08,060 --> 00:28:10,339
adopted before January
when 1993 with

735
00:28:10,339 --> 00:28:13,085
certain exceptions
and modifies

736
00:28:13,085 --> 00:28:16,439
uses of land under
marginal lands provisions.

737
00:28:16,439 --> 00:28:18,445
I'm specifically the law

738
00:28:18,445 --> 00:28:20,740
does that in
sections 28.29,

739
00:28:20,740 --> 00:28:22,870
Section 29 allows is

740
00:28:22,870 --> 00:28:24,955
the section
that explicitly

741
00:28:24,955 --> 00:28:27,279
provides that
what are that

742
00:28:27,279 --> 00:28:29,139
marginal land
counties continue

743
00:28:29,139 --> 00:28:30,864
to apply this model.

744
00:28:30,864 --> 00:28:34,150
Then section 28 is

745
00:28:34,150 --> 00:28:35,589
the section that primarily

746
00:28:35,589 --> 00:28:37,180
causes you to be
having these hearings.

747
00:28:37,180 --> 00:28:38,620
That describes a lot

748
00:28:38,620 --> 00:28:41,185
about the rules processed.

749
00:28:41,185 --> 00:28:43,809
Section 28 sub three says

750
00:28:43,809 --> 00:28:46,570
basically any
portion of a rule

751
00:28:46,570 --> 00:28:48,100
inconsistent with
the provisions

752
00:28:48,100 --> 00:28:49,269
of there's a number of

753
00:28:49,269 --> 00:28:50,440
ORS sites and what

754
00:28:50,440 --> 00:28:52,569
those sites are are the
marginal lands model,

755
00:28:52,569 --> 00:28:54,769
the ability to designate
marginal lands,

756
00:28:54,769 --> 00:28:57,460
then the requirements
to use to

757
00:28:57,460 --> 00:29:00,619
15 to 13, the
farmers provisions,

758
00:29:00,619 --> 00:29:02,749
it says any
portion of rules

759
00:29:02,749 --> 00:29:04,909
inconsistent with the
marginal lands models

760
00:29:04,909 --> 00:29:06,019
shall not be implemented,

761
00:29:06,019 --> 00:29:09,695
enforced for n has
no legal effect.

762
00:29:09,695 --> 00:29:11,000
Well, that language to me

763
00:29:11,000 --> 00:29:13,070
is pretty clear that

764
00:29:13,070 --> 00:29:15,709
the section 29 allows

765
00:29:15,709 --> 00:29:17,809
us to keep the
marginal lands model.

766
00:29:17,809 --> 00:29:20,149
And I think it provides
section 28 provides

767
00:29:20,149 --> 00:29:21,799
fairly specific
direction to

768
00:29:21,799 --> 00:29:24,425
the commission about
how to prepare rules.

769
00:29:24,425 --> 00:29:27,019
Basically, the
direction is you can't

770
00:29:27,019 --> 00:29:29,599
provide rules that are

771
00:29:29,599 --> 00:29:32,360
inconsistent with the
marginal lands model.

772
00:29:32,360 --> 00:29:34,340
Now, what I'm
afraid of is that

773
00:29:34,340 --> 00:29:36,379
perhaps the way you're
drafting the rules,

774
00:29:36,379 --> 00:29:38,585
what's in front of you
might be inconsistent.

775
00:29:38,585 --> 00:29:40,414
What we're
worried about is

776
00:29:40,414 --> 00:29:43,820
that a reading of the
rules in front of you,

777
00:29:43,820 --> 00:29:46,114
the goal in front
of you is that

778
00:29:46,114 --> 00:29:48,740
marginal land counties
could be made

779
00:29:48,740 --> 00:29:51,184
to apply the high-value
lands model.

780
00:29:51,184 --> 00:29:53,495
We think that
that's explicitly

781
00:29:53,495 --> 00:29:56,224
contrary to Section 28.

782
00:29:56,224 --> 00:29:58,880
We have had only
recently had

783
00:29:58,880 --> 00:30:01,504
time to talk to the
department about this.

784
00:30:01,504 --> 00:30:03,319
And what we would
like to do is to

785
00:30:03,319 --> 00:30:05,660
continue to explore that
with the department.

786
00:30:05,660 --> 00:30:06,890
We think that
language is so

787
00:30:06,890 --> 00:30:09,514
clear to make it.

788
00:30:09,514 --> 00:30:11,060
If you believe
that perhaps there

789
00:30:11,060 --> 00:30:13,879
is some ambiguity
in that language.

790
00:30:13,879 --> 00:30:15,680
I'd like to continue
on and show

791
00:30:15,680 --> 00:30:16,160
you a little bit

792
00:30:16,160 --> 00:30:17,599
about the
legislative history.

793
00:30:17,599 --> 00:30:20,539
The very next attachment
is attachment six,

794
00:30:20,539 --> 00:30:22,474
which is a letter
from Dale riddle to

795
00:30:22,474 --> 00:30:27,030
Roy Burns that is
about this topic.

796
00:30:27,130 --> 00:30:29,360
This topic explicitly

797
00:30:29,360 --> 00:30:31,535
marginal land counties
in rulemaking.

798
00:30:31,535 --> 00:30:33,079
And I

799
00:30:33,079 --> 00:30:34,579
obviously can't read the
whole letter to you,

800
00:30:34,579 --> 00:30:36,169
but the concluding part of

801
00:30:36,169 --> 00:30:37,850
a letter talks about

802
00:30:37,850 --> 00:30:38,930
Section 28 and goes

803
00:30:38,930 --> 00:30:40,355
up the legislative history

804
00:30:40,355 --> 00:30:43,879
and makes explicit
reference to comments on

805
00:30:43,879 --> 00:30:45,829
the Senate floor of

806
00:30:45,829 --> 00:30:47,180
the House floor
when they adopted

807
00:30:47,180 --> 00:30:48,544
this particular bill.

808
00:30:48,544 --> 00:30:52,039
That basically has
Senators on the floor

809
00:30:52,039 --> 00:30:53,329
indicating and
House members

810
00:30:53,329 --> 00:30:57,109
indicating that
House Bill 36, 61.

811
00:30:57,109 --> 00:30:59,629
And here I'm on the last
page of the letter,

812
00:30:59,629 --> 00:31:01,700
eliminates any rules
that take away use.

813
00:31:01,700 --> 00:31:02,765
Is that the Legislature

814
00:31:02,765 --> 00:31:04,549
authorized on
foreign land?

815
00:31:04,549 --> 00:31:06,680
Legislature, I
thought that

816
00:31:06,680 --> 00:31:08,450
if they were
authorizing uses,

817
00:31:08,450 --> 00:31:10,219
that no rules can be

818
00:31:10,219 --> 00:31:12,320
enacted that it would
take away those users.

819
00:31:12,320 --> 00:31:14,329
So again, I think
that legislative

820
00:31:14,329 --> 00:31:15,994
history is pretty clear.

821
00:31:15,994 --> 00:31:18,440
You might ask, why why was

822
00:31:18,440 --> 00:31:19,909
Washington County
interested in

823
00:31:19,909 --> 00:31:20,944
this kind of approach?

824
00:31:20,944 --> 00:31:22,220
And some of the other

825
00:31:22,220 --> 00:31:24,810
attachments go
to that point.

826
00:31:25,030 --> 00:31:28,310
The legal part of it
isn't it continues on

827
00:31:28,310 --> 00:31:29,389
a little bit with it with

828
00:31:29,389 --> 00:31:31,219
portions from the
Acknowledgement Order,

829
00:31:31,219 --> 00:31:32,360
the original knowledge in

830
00:31:32,360 --> 00:31:33,680
order for
Washington County,

831
00:31:33,680 --> 00:31:36,110
that basically explains
the requirements

832
00:31:36,110 --> 00:31:37,700
that are incumbent
upon Washington County

833
00:31:37,700 --> 00:31:40,339
as a marginal land County
and a directive to

834
00:31:40,339 --> 00:31:43,069
the legislature excuse me,

835
00:31:43,069 --> 00:31:44,330
a directive to the

836
00:31:44,330 --> 00:31:45,740
commission about
marginal lands.

837
00:31:45,740 --> 00:31:48,334
It says attachment seven.

838
00:31:48,334 --> 00:31:50,329
On page 12 of

839
00:31:50,329 --> 00:31:51,500
the attachment under

840
00:31:51,500 --> 00:31:53,825
the section called
marginal land,

841
00:31:53,825 --> 00:31:56,329
you'll see an
underlined word.

842
00:31:56,329 --> 00:31:58,909
Under marginal lands in
the first paragraph,

843
00:31:58,909 --> 00:32:01,115
the Act required
the commission

844
00:32:01,115 --> 00:32:03,215
that basically was
the directive in

845
00:32:03,215 --> 00:32:06,769
ORS 197 to 47 that
the legislature

846
00:32:06,769 --> 00:32:08,510
provided to the
commission had said you

847
00:32:08,510 --> 00:32:11,165
shall provide
your marshlands.

848
00:32:11,165 --> 00:32:13,670
Then the next
para paragraph

849
00:32:13,670 --> 00:32:14,915
goes on to explain,

850
00:32:14,915 --> 00:32:16,940
if a county chooses

851
00:32:16,940 --> 00:32:18,710
to elect the
marginal land model,

852
00:32:18,710 --> 00:32:20,930
what it has to do is it

853
00:32:20,930 --> 00:32:23,944
has to adopt to
15 to 13 uses.

854
00:32:23,944 --> 00:32:25,610
That side is two-fifths.

855
00:32:25,610 --> 00:32:29,224
Into 8082, and I'll
I'll paraphrase it.

856
00:32:29,224 --> 00:32:31,340
If a county
Amend Amendments

857
00:32:31,340 --> 00:32:32,869
plan to designate
marginal lands,

858
00:32:32,869 --> 00:32:34,819
the county shall
apply rest to

859
00:32:34,819 --> 00:32:37,309
15 to 131 through three.

860
00:32:37,309 --> 00:32:39,350
So the legislature
said, if you do this,

861
00:32:39,350 --> 00:32:40,789
counties, you
have no choice

862
00:32:40,789 --> 00:32:42,739
applied to 15 to 13.

863
00:32:42,739 --> 00:32:44,719
And of course, that's
the marginal lands.

864
00:32:44,719 --> 00:32:47,030
Mom, we did go through

865
00:32:47,030 --> 00:32:48,785
periodic review as well

866
00:32:48,785 --> 00:32:50,449
and explored some
of these issues.

867
00:32:50,449 --> 00:32:52,639
But I want to turn back
to the point about

868
00:32:52,639 --> 00:32:53,840
the marginal
lands model and

869
00:32:53,840 --> 00:32:55,895
why we might
want to keep it.

870
00:32:55,895 --> 00:32:58,025
There is an attachment

871
00:32:58,025 --> 00:33:00,724
that is attachment eight,

872
00:33:00,724 --> 00:33:02,419
which is labeled the
Washington County

873
00:33:02,419 --> 00:33:04,550
rural lands chart.

874
00:33:04,550 --> 00:33:06,530
If you could turn to that,

875
00:33:06,530 --> 00:33:08,269
the chart is, you know,

876
00:33:08,269 --> 00:33:10,370
a three-page chart
of information that

877
00:33:10,370 --> 00:33:12,499
is germane to
Washington counties

878
00:33:12,499 --> 00:33:14,480
experienced in
the rural land in

879
00:33:14,480 --> 00:33:18,859
rural land use
districts for 91.92.

880
00:33:18,859 --> 00:33:21,350
And our point to
the legislature is

881
00:33:21,350 --> 00:33:22,549
one that point that

882
00:33:22,549 --> 00:33:23,930
we've been making
to the Commission,

883
00:33:23,930 --> 00:33:26,074
as well as that overall,

884
00:33:26,074 --> 00:33:27,769
the planning program,

885
00:33:27,769 --> 00:33:29,659
we believe in Washington
County works very

886
00:33:29,659 --> 00:33:32,629
well in accomplishing
its objectives.

887
00:33:32,629 --> 00:33:34,940
Very, very, very few

888
00:33:34,940 --> 00:33:36,050
swellings are cited

889
00:33:36,050 --> 00:33:37,759
outside the urban
growth boundary.

890
00:33:37,759 --> 00:33:39,829
Vast majority
of activity is

891
00:33:39,829 --> 00:33:41,629
going on inside the
urban growth boundary.

892
00:33:41,629 --> 00:33:42,679
And we believe
that that's the

893
00:33:42,679 --> 00:33:44,119
objectives of the program.

894
00:33:44,119 --> 00:33:46,400
What this chart
explores is

895
00:33:46,400 --> 00:33:48,379
the actual
experience first

896
00:33:48,379 --> 00:33:51,124
with building permits
issued in 1992,

897
00:33:51,124 --> 00:33:53,854
a total of 55

898
00:33:53,854 --> 00:33:54,949
altogether outside of

899
00:33:54,949 --> 00:33:56,435
the urban growth boundary,

900
00:33:56,435 --> 00:33:58,039
with the majority of

901
00:33:58,039 --> 00:33:59,509
those being an
exception areas.

902
00:33:59,509 --> 00:34:01,235
Then it explores
the experience,

903
00:34:01,235 --> 00:34:02,734
not just for
building permits,

904
00:34:02,734 --> 00:34:05,329
for sanctions of
building activities.

905
00:34:05,329 --> 00:34:07,384
And again,
you'll find that

906
00:34:07,384 --> 00:34:10,160
that less than 1%,
in some cases,

907
00:34:10,160 --> 00:34:13,054
less than a half a percent

908
00:34:13,054 --> 00:34:14,419
of all building
activities as

909
00:34:14,419 --> 00:34:16,070
occurring on
sensitive grounds,

910
00:34:16,070 --> 00:34:17,989
on, on rural
resource grounds

911
00:34:17,989 --> 00:34:19,339
where it is occurring is

912
00:34:19,339 --> 00:34:21,199
inside the urban
growth boundary.

913
00:34:21,199 --> 00:34:24,995
The reason that's on
the development side,

914
00:34:24,995 --> 00:34:26,479
on the partitioning side,

915
00:34:26,479 --> 00:34:27,860
what we've found since

916
00:34:27,860 --> 00:34:30,244
our acknowledgement
and 84 is that

917
00:34:30,244 --> 00:34:32,569
according to the
provisions that we have

918
00:34:32,569 --> 00:34:33,620
that are being
acknowledged and

919
00:34:33,620 --> 00:34:35,119
been through
periodic review.

920
00:34:35,119 --> 00:34:36,610
We've created in the EF

921
00:34:36,610 --> 00:34:39,275
few districts, five lots.

922
00:34:39,275 --> 00:34:40,985
Since that amount
of time that

923
00:34:40,985 --> 00:34:43,445
those provisions work
in Washington County.

924
00:34:43,445 --> 00:34:45,710
If you choose to
define working

925
00:34:45,710 --> 00:34:46,640
as meaning we're not

926
00:34:46,640 --> 00:34:48,589
dividing resource
lands up.

927
00:34:48,589 --> 00:34:50,269
On both those counts.

928
00:34:50,269 --> 00:34:52,129
What we wanted to do with

929
00:34:52,129 --> 00:34:54,740
the legislature
was to ask them to

930
00:34:54,740 --> 00:34:56,269
keep in place
that system that

931
00:34:56,269 --> 00:34:58,009
we thought was
working so that

932
00:34:58,009 --> 00:34:59,719
we could address
our attention

933
00:34:59,719 --> 00:35:01,399
to the growth demands

934
00:35:01,399 --> 00:35:02,510
that are occurring
in Oregon,

935
00:35:02,510 --> 00:35:03,724
that will occur
in Portland

936
00:35:03,724 --> 00:35:05,855
and we'll get our
share of them.

937
00:35:05,855 --> 00:35:08,224
And that was what was
the arguments that

938
00:35:08,224 --> 00:35:08,960
we made before

939
00:35:08,960 --> 00:35:10,699
the legislature
with these charts.

940
00:35:10,699 --> 00:35:11,959
I brought some maps

941
00:35:11,959 --> 00:35:13,789
along that I haven't
loved them to

942
00:35:13,789 --> 00:35:15,139
the Senate committee and I

943
00:35:15,139 --> 00:35:16,550
use them and I have
them in the back of

944
00:35:16,550 --> 00:35:17,719
the room that I
can show you how

945
00:35:17,719 --> 00:35:20,510
this information
plots out in terms of

946
00:35:20,510 --> 00:35:22,070
how building permits and

947
00:35:22,070 --> 00:35:23,029
building activity outside

948
00:35:23,029 --> 00:35:24,110
the urban growth
boundary or

949
00:35:24,110 --> 00:35:25,700
a raid on the
landscape while I

950
00:35:25,700 --> 00:35:28,624
won't get those out
unless you asked me to.

951
00:35:28,624 --> 00:35:31,879
I've also included
our work program

952
00:35:31,879 --> 00:35:33,170
in here that we recently

953
00:35:33,170 --> 00:35:34,505
adopted under the premise,

954
00:35:34,505 --> 00:35:36,740
under our working
assumption that we were

955
00:35:36,740 --> 00:35:37,969
going to basically keep

956
00:35:37,969 --> 00:35:38,990
our rural lands model.

957
00:35:38,990 --> 00:35:40,550
And you can see
that if you

958
00:35:40,550 --> 00:35:42,169
look in the very
last document,

959
00:35:42,169 --> 00:35:44,225
it's a 15 page document

960
00:35:44,225 --> 00:35:47,149
that focuses in on
this fiscal year,

961
00:35:47,149 --> 00:35:48,350
but looks at the
next three are

962
00:35:48,350 --> 00:35:49,805
for fiscal years.

963
00:35:49,805 --> 00:35:51,965
And it's very, very
ambitious that has

964
00:35:51,965 --> 00:35:54,589
a wide array of
planning activities.

965
00:35:54,589 --> 00:35:57,499
And what's a central
organizing principle

966
00:35:57,499 --> 00:36:00,124
of those planning
activities is to focus on

967
00:36:00,124 --> 00:36:01,279
urban issues and focus

968
00:36:01,279 --> 00:36:02,209
on urban issues that are

969
00:36:02,209 --> 00:36:03,559
required from

970
00:36:03,559 --> 00:36:05,524
transportation planning
rule requirements,

971
00:36:05,524 --> 00:36:07,805
urban reserve
requirements,

972
00:36:07,805 --> 00:36:09,874
region 2040 requirements,

973
00:36:09,874 --> 00:36:11,209
those kinds of things.

974
00:36:11,209 --> 00:36:13,504
We think in some way

975
00:36:13,504 --> 00:36:15,020
we think and what
we approached

976
00:36:15,020 --> 00:36:16,459
the legislature with was

977
00:36:16,459 --> 00:36:18,170
the rural lands activities

978
00:36:18,170 --> 00:36:19,699
are under control and
Washington County,

979
00:36:19,699 --> 00:36:21,064
that model works well.

980
00:36:21,064 --> 00:36:22,279
We need to do for
our attention

981
00:36:22,279 --> 00:36:23,705
to the urban resources.

982
00:36:23,705 --> 00:36:25,594
If we turn our
attention to the,

983
00:36:25,594 --> 00:36:26,929
if we have to turn
our attention to

984
00:36:26,929 --> 00:36:28,609
the rural model, can
you wind this up?

985
00:36:28,609 --> 00:36:29,719
You're well over
your flight

986
00:36:29,719 --> 00:36:30,830
attendants and I couldn't

987
00:36:30,830 --> 00:36:33,514
quite tolerant if
we have to do that.

988
00:36:33,514 --> 00:36:35,420
Well, we'll do it without

989
00:36:35,420 --> 00:36:36,530
any real benefits to

990
00:36:36,530 --> 00:36:37,925
the landscape and
Washington County,

991
00:36:37,925 --> 00:36:39,874
we have to turn our
attention to real uses.

992
00:36:39,874 --> 00:36:41,465
It'll be to the
detriment of urban

993
00:36:41,465 --> 00:36:43,850
and not to any gain
and the rural side.

994
00:36:43,850 --> 00:36:45,560
So for those reasons,

995
00:36:45,560 --> 00:36:46,790
we asked the legislature

996
00:36:46,790 --> 00:36:48,439
to keep the Rollins model.

997
00:36:48,439 --> 00:36:50,600
We think that the
sections in the 20th and

998
00:36:50,600 --> 00:36:53,195
29 are unambiguous
on their face.

999
00:36:53,195 --> 00:36:55,579
And that in that regard,

1000
00:36:55,579 --> 00:36:59,119
we think that
that clarity in

1001
00:36:59,119 --> 00:37:00,800
the law should
be translated

1002
00:37:00,800 --> 00:37:03,080
into the rules that
you operate under.

1003
00:37:03,080 --> 00:37:04,130
When we've suggested some

1004
00:37:04,130 --> 00:37:06,440
language, we are happy.

1005
00:37:06,440 --> 00:37:08,749
We realized that we

1006
00:37:08,749 --> 00:37:09,829
realized this
the other day

1007
00:37:09,829 --> 00:37:10,864
that we were in
this dilemma.

1008
00:37:10,864 --> 00:37:12,559
And we realize that we
presented you a lot

1009
00:37:12,559 --> 00:37:14,510
of information
to consider.

1010
00:37:14,510 --> 00:37:15,499
We would like to give you

1011
00:37:15,499 --> 00:37:16,639
time to consider that

1012
00:37:16,639 --> 00:37:19,070
and to address any
concerns you might have.

1013
00:37:19,070 --> 00:37:20,690
And for that reason,
we would ask you

1014
00:37:20,690 --> 00:37:22,729
to continue this
manner to the 18th.

1015
00:37:22,729 --> 00:37:24,800
We do have some
other issues

1016
00:37:24,800 --> 00:37:26,225
with the rules that are

1017
00:37:26,225 --> 00:37:27,755
that we've addressed and

1018
00:37:27,755 --> 00:37:30,395
Joanne rise is prepared
to talk about it.

1019
00:37:30,395 --> 00:37:34,399
We do have anytime well,

1020
00:37:34,399 --> 00:37:35,840
we didn't have
her sign up,

1021
00:37:35,840 --> 00:37:39,299
so she is so we
are alright.

1022
00:37:39,299 --> 00:37:40,575
Alright.

1023
00:37:40,575 --> 00:37:42,029
Okay.

1024
00:37:42,820 --> 00:37:45,275
You could refer to page

1025
00:37:45,275 --> 00:37:46,819
five of attachment one.

1026
00:37:46,819 --> 00:37:48,949
What I'd like to
talk about are

1027
00:37:48,949 --> 00:37:52,100
the standards
for structures

1028
00:37:52,100 --> 00:37:54,964
in the exclusive
forest district.

1029
00:37:54,964 --> 00:37:58,055
Our two concerns there are

1030
00:37:58,055 --> 00:38:02,809
that the section 29.35,

1031
00:38:02,809 --> 00:38:05,929
those portions of the

1032
00:38:05,929 --> 00:38:08,689
made explicitly clear
that if counties

1033
00:38:08,689 --> 00:38:12,049
can implement these
citing criteria

1034
00:38:12,049 --> 00:38:12,920
is through the adoption

1035
00:38:12,920 --> 00:38:14,419
of certain objective
standards.

1036
00:38:14,419 --> 00:38:15,649
And the reason that we'd

1037
00:38:15,649 --> 00:38:17,630
like to be able to
do that is that

1038
00:38:17,630 --> 00:38:19,159
would allow us
in many cases

1039
00:38:19,159 --> 00:38:21,949
to take the siting
of new dwellings and

1040
00:38:21,949 --> 00:38:23,810
new accessory
structures from

1041
00:38:23,810 --> 00:38:25,219
an administrative
review where

1042
00:38:25,219 --> 00:38:26,389
we have to give notice to

1043
00:38:26,389 --> 00:38:28,294
surrounding
property owners to

1044
00:38:28,294 --> 00:38:29,569
simply administrative

1045
00:38:29,569 --> 00:38:30,829
review over-the-counter.

1046
00:38:30,829 --> 00:38:31,669
And what we'd like to be

1047
00:38:31,669 --> 00:38:32,659
able to do would be to

1048
00:38:32,659 --> 00:38:34,429
establish specific

1049
00:38:34,429 --> 00:38:35,960
setback standards
like say,

1050
00:38:35,960 --> 00:38:38,179
300 foot setback from

1051
00:38:38,179 --> 00:38:39,739
an existing
property line and

1052
00:38:39,739 --> 00:38:41,689
how specific fire breaks

1053
00:38:41,689 --> 00:38:44,450
standards so that
if somebody chooses

1054
00:38:44,450 --> 00:38:47,210
to meet those specific
standards than

1055
00:38:47,210 --> 00:38:48,139
they wouldn't have
to go through

1056
00:38:48,139 --> 00:38:49,760
an administrative
review process

1057
00:38:49,760 --> 00:38:51,979
with notice those
cases where

1058
00:38:51,979 --> 00:38:53,300
someone could meet
those standards

1059
00:38:53,300 --> 00:38:54,380
and they would
have to go through

1060
00:38:54,380 --> 00:38:55,699
a type of what
we call a type-2

1061
00:38:55,699 --> 00:38:57,620
process and give notice.

1062
00:38:57,620 --> 00:39:00,739
The other standard
that we have

1063
00:39:00,739 --> 00:39:04,190
concern within
Section 29 is one

1064
00:39:04,190 --> 00:39:05,495
where it talks about

1065
00:39:05,495 --> 00:39:07,190
the site endless structure

1066
00:39:07,190 --> 00:39:08,750
has to ensure that
it doesn't have

1067
00:39:08,750 --> 00:39:11,150
adverse impacts
on the track.

1068
00:39:11,150 --> 00:39:13,160
And there's no
way that you can

1069
00:39:13,160 --> 00:39:16,474
develop Florida objective
criteria for that.

1070
00:39:16,474 --> 00:39:19,010
I mean, that's a
discretionary review.

1071
00:39:19,010 --> 00:39:23,014
This this new standard
would apply to impacts

1072
00:39:23,014 --> 00:39:25,069
on the actual property

1073
00:39:25,069 --> 00:39:25,999
that the applicant is

1074
00:39:25,999 --> 00:39:27,349
proposing this
type of structure.

1075
00:39:27,349 --> 00:39:28,549
And I might add,
the structure

1076
00:39:28,549 --> 00:39:29,749
doesn't mean
just dwellings,

1077
00:39:29,749 --> 00:39:31,249
it also means
accessory structures.

1078
00:39:31,249 --> 00:39:32,375
And so the county
right now,

1079
00:39:32,375 --> 00:39:33,619
we have people
having to go

1080
00:39:33,619 --> 00:39:36,710
through will cost
them like $1,500

1081
00:39:36,710 --> 00:39:38,000
beside an accessory
structure

1082
00:39:38,000 --> 00:39:39,199
because we have
this type to

1083
00:39:39,199 --> 00:39:42,500
process to go through
a silver one B,

1084
00:39:42,500 --> 00:39:44,630
we suggest to you that

1085
00:39:44,630 --> 00:39:46,940
you either delete
that standard or it'd

1086
00:39:46,940 --> 00:39:49,339
be rewarded so that we
can somehow address

1087
00:39:49,339 --> 00:39:52,475
that through clearly
objective standards.

1088
00:39:52,475 --> 00:39:54,769
And then lastly,
what I'd like to

1089
00:39:54,769 --> 00:39:55,580
talk about would be

1090
00:39:55,580 --> 00:39:56,944
the lot line
adjustment standards.

1091
00:39:56,944 --> 00:40:00,749
Jim Allison talked
previously about that.

1092
00:40:01,120 --> 00:40:03,709
Are concerned with the

1093
00:40:03,709 --> 00:40:05,629
lot line adjustment
standards

1094
00:40:05,629 --> 00:40:08,120
is that the rule does

1095
00:40:08,120 --> 00:40:09,589
not specifically provide

1096
00:40:09,589 --> 00:40:11,059
for hotline
adjustments when

1097
00:40:11,059 --> 00:40:12,500
you're reducing a parcel

1098
00:40:12,500 --> 00:40:14,629
below the minimum
parcel size,

1099
00:40:14,629 --> 00:40:18,589
which is proposed to
be 80 acres or S9 T2,

1100
00:40:18,589 --> 00:40:21,079
which are the standards
for land divisions,

1101
00:40:21,079 --> 00:40:22,459
says that you can do lot

1102
00:40:22,459 --> 00:40:23,720
line adjustment
as long as you

1103
00:40:23,720 --> 00:40:26,749
comply with the standards
of the district.

1104
00:40:26,749 --> 00:40:29,540
So we're concerned
with is that if you

1105
00:40:29,540 --> 00:40:33,274
have an 80 acre
minimum parcel size,

1106
00:40:33,274 --> 00:40:35,419
there are
literally hundreds

1107
00:40:35,419 --> 00:40:37,165
of Parsons that don't
meet that standard.

1108
00:40:37,165 --> 00:40:37,760
And you run, we

1109
00:40:37,760 --> 00:40:39,379
continuously run into
these problems where

1110
00:40:39,379 --> 00:40:41,180
somebody's too close
to the property line

1111
00:40:41,180 --> 00:40:42,590
or they find out
the property line

1112
00:40:42,590 --> 00:40:43,969
is not where
they thought it

1113
00:40:43,969 --> 00:40:46,354
was and you're dealing
with maybe say,

1114
00:40:46,354 --> 00:40:49,549
ten to 15 acre parcel
and somebody wants to

1115
00:40:49,549 --> 00:40:51,290
Dede two acres from

1116
00:40:51,290 --> 00:40:53,360
the 15 acre parcel
to ten acre parcel.

1117
00:40:53,360 --> 00:40:56,585
Well, there's no legal
authority to do that.

1118
00:40:56,585 --> 00:40:58,790
We would like the rule for

1119
00:40:58,790 --> 00:41:01,970
both the forest and
agricultural lands

1120
00:41:01,970 --> 00:41:03,439
is to provide
some remedy for

1121
00:41:03,439 --> 00:41:04,939
those types of situations

1122
00:41:04,939 --> 00:41:07,669
where you need you need to

1123
00:41:07,669 --> 00:41:09,274
address concerns
whether they're from

1124
00:41:09,274 --> 00:41:10,580
a court decree
or you've got

1125
00:41:10,580 --> 00:41:12,230
a violation
with a setback,

1126
00:41:12,230 --> 00:41:15,259
or somebody doesn't have
access to a piece of

1127
00:41:15,259 --> 00:41:17,689
property because
it's the property

1128
00:41:17,689 --> 00:41:18,830
is divided by a stream,

1129
00:41:18,830 --> 00:41:21,320
but the adjacent property
owner can farm it,

1130
00:41:21,320 --> 00:41:23,209
can can log it that we'd

1131
00:41:23,209 --> 00:41:24,980
like to be able to
have the ability

1132
00:41:24,980 --> 00:41:26,839
to do those lot
line adjustment and

1133
00:41:26,839 --> 00:41:27,949
also do those through an

1134
00:41:27,949 --> 00:41:29,179
administrative process

1135
00:41:29,179 --> 00:41:31,219
where you don't
have to go through

1136
00:41:31,219 --> 00:41:33,620
this notice process that

1137
00:41:33,620 --> 00:41:34,940
Jim Allison was referring

1138
00:41:34,940 --> 00:41:37,249
to Washington County.

1139
00:41:37,249 --> 00:41:40,039
Our fees for a lot
line adjustment

1140
00:41:40,039 --> 00:41:42,529
where we have to provide
notice is $1,300.

1141
00:41:42,529 --> 00:41:44,494
But in those
instances where we

1142
00:41:44,494 --> 00:41:47,014
don't have to provide
notice, it's only $200.

1143
00:41:47,014 --> 00:41:48,680
We would also
like that ability

1144
00:41:48,680 --> 00:41:52,279
to establish clear and
objective standards

1145
00:41:52,279 --> 00:41:53,419
for lot line adjustment.

1146
00:41:53,419 --> 00:41:54,619
So those that can
meet, that can

1147
00:41:54,619 --> 00:41:55,879
go through a
simpler process,

1148
00:41:55,879 --> 00:41:57,169
those that can't
meet them would

1149
00:41:57,169 --> 00:41:59,419
have to go through
this discretionary.

1150
00:41:59,419 --> 00:42:01,759
Your process now is

1151
00:42:01,759 --> 00:42:03,365
as Jim described as though

1152
00:42:03,365 --> 00:42:05,570
extremely difficult
or impossible

1153
00:42:05,570 --> 00:42:07,714
and very expensive
as well.

1154
00:42:07,714 --> 00:42:09,049
Well, in our in

1155
00:42:09,049 --> 00:42:11,179
our exclusive farm
use districts,

1156
00:42:11,179 --> 00:42:12,290
we do have that

1157
00:42:12,290 --> 00:42:13,550
standard and that
was required

1158
00:42:13,550 --> 00:42:16,324
of an acknowledgement
in 1984,

1159
00:42:16,324 --> 00:42:18,560
and it is a
discretionary standard.

1160
00:42:18,560 --> 00:42:20,510
And because of that,

1161
00:42:20,510 --> 00:42:23,600
the definition of a
land use decision

1162
00:42:23,600 --> 00:42:25,009
requires us to give notice

1163
00:42:25,009 --> 00:42:28,520
and he entered itself
requires us to do

1164
00:42:28,520 --> 00:42:30,289
an analysis of what are

1165
00:42:30,289 --> 00:42:32,540
the surrounding farm
and forest uses.

1166
00:42:32,540 --> 00:42:34,280
The applicant has to
show that what they're

1167
00:42:34,280 --> 00:42:35,060
proposing to do in

1168
00:42:35,060 --> 00:42:36,230
the art could
jeopardize that.

1169
00:42:36,230 --> 00:42:38,719
So It's expensive because
of the notice and

1170
00:42:38,719 --> 00:42:40,324
also because of
the analysis

1171
00:42:40,324 --> 00:42:41,804
process that
we have to do,

1172
00:42:41,804 --> 00:42:44,299
that standard applies to

1173
00:42:44,299 --> 00:42:45,829
any type of lot
line adjustment,

1174
00:42:45,829 --> 00:42:47,479
whether it's an
adjustment to

1175
00:42:47,479 --> 00:42:49,690
correct a setback
violation or worse,

1176
00:42:49,690 --> 00:42:51,335
somebody actually wants to

1177
00:42:51,335 --> 00:42:53,120
sell their neighbor half

1178
00:42:53,120 --> 00:42:54,829
of their property so
that they can include

1179
00:42:54,829 --> 00:42:56,960
it in their farm or
forest operations.

1180
00:42:56,960 --> 00:42:59,479
But with our
forest district,

1181
00:42:59,479 --> 00:43:01,160
when we went through
periodic review

1182
00:43:01,160 --> 00:43:02,900
and we amended
our ordinance

1183
00:43:02,900 --> 00:43:05,269
to comply with
the new rule that

1184
00:43:05,269 --> 00:43:08,675
was adopted back in 1991.

1185
00:43:08,675 --> 00:43:10,774
The commission
did acknowledge

1186
00:43:10,774 --> 00:43:12,769
some limited type
one lot line

1187
00:43:12,769 --> 00:43:13,939
at just adjustments.

1188
00:43:13,939 --> 00:43:15,664
They weren't
specifically authorized,

1189
00:43:15,664 --> 00:43:19,444
but staff had told us
that if the commission

1190
00:43:19,444 --> 00:43:21,709
Had had that before
then they would

1191
00:43:21,709 --> 00:43:22,879
have allowed certain types

1192
00:43:22,879 --> 00:43:23,780
of lot line adjustment.

1193
00:43:23,780 --> 00:43:24,350
See that we have

1194
00:43:24,350 --> 00:43:25,790
attached here and
show you what the

1195
00:43:25,790 --> 00:43:26,960
type of type one

1196
00:43:26,960 --> 00:43:28,610
lot line adjustment
that we have.

1197
00:43:28,610 --> 00:43:30,709
You have specific
language somewhere in

1198
00:43:30,709 --> 00:43:31,430
here that tells us

1199
00:43:31,430 --> 00:43:32,855
exactly what you
think the older do?

1200
00:43:32,855 --> 00:43:33,424
Yes.

1201
00:43:33,424 --> 00:43:37,679
We have any
further questions.

1202
00:43:38,320 --> 00:43:41,750
Thank you very much.
Would appear that we had

1203
00:43:41,750 --> 00:43:44,449
time for one more
before 12:00,

1204
00:43:44,449 --> 00:43:46,249
cut off, virginal
heartburn.

1205
00:43:46,249 --> 00:43:49,100
Mr. Chairman
Carroll informed

1206
00:43:49,100 --> 00:43:51,380
me that we could go as
late as 12 to 15 and

1207
00:43:51,380 --> 00:43:52,580
still hold our reservation

1208
00:43:52,580 --> 00:43:55,069
downstairs so
you can either

1209
00:43:55,069 --> 00:43:56,495
break and come back and

1210
00:43:56,495 --> 00:43:58,784
hear the remaining
testimony or

1211
00:43:58,784 --> 00:44:01,264
adult that we can cover

1212
00:44:01,264 --> 00:44:04,849
the way things have been
going in that time.

1213
00:44:04,849 --> 00:44:06,989
Morning.

1214
00:44:07,090 --> 00:44:11,194
I'm virtual Harper
from Jefferson County

1215
00:44:11,194 --> 00:44:15,679
and I will kind of
gloss over this.

1216
00:44:15,679 --> 00:44:18,185
I'm not going to call
this testimony exactly.

1217
00:44:18,185 --> 00:44:20,390
But I like to say is
I had some concerns

1218
00:44:20,390 --> 00:44:23,569
about dropping out
seed crops and such.

1219
00:44:23,569 --> 00:44:25,579
And certain lands
that wouldn't be

1220
00:44:25,579 --> 00:44:28,505
protected under the
high-value farmland.

1221
00:44:28,505 --> 00:44:31,579
To kinda point
something out in regard

1222
00:44:31,579 --> 00:44:36,095
that you can have dry
land is not irrigated,

1223
00:44:36,095 --> 00:44:40,520
has a prime farmland
designation

1224
00:44:40,520 --> 00:44:42,949
by SCM or by SES,

1225
00:44:42,949 --> 00:44:44,869
but not be
considered prime

1226
00:44:44,869 --> 00:44:48,544
farmland because of
not having irrigation.

1227
00:44:48,544 --> 00:44:52,189
But that land such
as dry land week,

1228
00:44:52,189 --> 00:44:54,590
which we have some
in Jefferson County,

1229
00:44:54,590 --> 00:44:56,375
north of Jefferson County,

1230
00:44:56,375 --> 00:44:58,220
could fall into
that category,

1231
00:44:58,220 --> 00:44:59,270
not be protected yet.

1232
00:44:59,270 --> 00:45:01,020
It's growing.

1233
00:45:01,180 --> 00:45:02,569
Basically

1234
00:45:02,569 --> 00:45:04,789
high-value crops were
not highly across,

1235
00:45:04,789 --> 00:45:06,680
but crops which
would constitute it

1236
00:45:06,680 --> 00:45:09,665
being either a
farmland, I believe.

1237
00:45:09,665 --> 00:45:10,010
So.

1238
00:45:10,010 --> 00:45:11,929
That wouldn't be afforded

1239
00:45:11,929 --> 00:45:14,729
because of that rule.

1240
00:45:14,860 --> 00:45:19,549
In regards to allowing

1241
00:45:19,549 --> 00:45:22,924
golf courses in
high-value farmland,

1242
00:45:22,924 --> 00:45:23,989
I would oppose that

1243
00:45:23,989 --> 00:45:25,250
because I think
basically what you're

1244
00:45:25,250 --> 00:45:27,754
citing as a
recreational use area

1245
00:45:27,754 --> 00:45:30,874
inside a high-value
farmland.

1246
00:45:30,874 --> 00:45:35,374
And through talking to
certain people on DLC,

1247
00:45:35,374 --> 00:45:41,074
DLC, DC, in previous
land use issues.

1248
00:45:41,074 --> 00:45:42,590
It was a concern that once

1249
00:45:42,590 --> 00:45:44,524
golf courses get
established,

1250
00:45:44,524 --> 00:45:47,209
it's kind of a
back door to

1251
00:45:47,209 --> 00:45:51,875
allow housing developments
around the greens.

1252
00:45:51,875 --> 00:45:53,329
You can always file for

1253
00:45:53,329 --> 00:45:54,709
variance at some point.

1254
00:45:54,709 --> 00:45:56,359
What point then
we'll housing be

1255
00:45:56,359 --> 00:45:58,610
established around
those golf courses.

1256
00:45:58,610 --> 00:46:00,709
I think that's a concern

1257
00:46:00,709 --> 00:46:03,209
that should be looked at.

1258
00:46:05,500 --> 00:46:08,900
As far as the right
to farm bill?

1259
00:46:08,900 --> 00:46:10,940
I'm not sure that
the right to

1260
00:46:10,940 --> 00:46:14,225
farm bill really
precludes anything.

1261
00:46:14,225 --> 00:46:15,680
It may tell people

1262
00:46:15,680 --> 00:46:16,970
they can't take
you to trial,

1263
00:46:16,970 --> 00:46:18,004
but it doesn't preclude

1264
00:46:18,004 --> 00:46:23,360
all the pre trial problems

1265
00:46:23,360 --> 00:46:25,039
that can arise
from a farmer.

1266
00:46:25,039 --> 00:46:26,389
I don't believe it doesn't

1267
00:46:26,389 --> 00:46:28,190
say that people
can't gear up

1268
00:46:28,190 --> 00:46:30,005
cause you a lot having

1269
00:46:30,005 --> 00:46:32,330
before you ever get
to trial as far

1270
00:46:32,330 --> 00:46:35,210
as legal expenses
to just inform

1271
00:46:35,210 --> 00:46:38,360
those people that you
can't take me to trial.

1272
00:46:38,360 --> 00:46:39,139
I think there's a lot

1273
00:46:39,139 --> 00:46:40,965
of legal
implications there.

1274
00:46:40,965 --> 00:46:43,439
There's not really
taken in by the bill.

1275
00:46:43,439 --> 00:46:46,164
It's not covered
anything prior.

1276
00:46:46,164 --> 00:46:48,220
Also, I think it would

1277
00:46:48,220 --> 00:46:50,049
probably be certain
costs that arise to

1278
00:46:50,049 --> 00:46:51,430
farmers if you allow

1279
00:46:51,430 --> 00:46:55,780
non farm dwellings in
either a farmland.

1280
00:46:55,780 --> 00:46:57,399
In the sense Do they have

1281
00:46:57,399 --> 00:46:59,274
the additional
insurance costs

1282
00:46:59,274 --> 00:47:01,389
just to kind of
protect themselves?

1283
00:47:01,389 --> 00:47:02,439
Do they have to
put up extra

1284
00:47:02,439 --> 00:47:04,660
fencing around
irrigation ditches,

1285
00:47:04,660 --> 00:47:06,264
ponds, that kind of thing.

1286
00:47:06,264 --> 00:47:08,290
Take protective
measures because you

1287
00:47:08,290 --> 00:47:12,774
have non farming
residences in the area.

1288
00:47:12,774 --> 00:47:14,320
I mean, it's one
thing to tell

1289
00:47:14,320 --> 00:47:15,655
kids or whatever,

1290
00:47:15,655 --> 00:47:17,440
you know, you can't

1291
00:47:17,440 --> 00:47:19,480
trespass, but
they still do.

1292
00:47:19,480 --> 00:47:20,890
So I mean, I think
there's a lot of

1293
00:47:20,890 --> 00:47:21,999
additional cost is gonna

1294
00:47:21,999 --> 00:47:23,109
be incurred by farmers.

1295
00:47:23,109 --> 00:47:25,250
By allowing
this to happen.

1296
00:47:27,300 --> 00:47:29,770
We cure your problems

1297
00:47:29,770 --> 00:47:31,029
with irrigation
if we simply

1298
00:47:31,029 --> 00:47:32,560
made all irrigated

1299
00:47:32,560 --> 00:47:34,974
land high-value
automatically?

1300
00:47:34,974 --> 00:47:36,790
Well, I'm not sure
if that isn't

1301
00:47:36,790 --> 00:47:37,989
already covered

1302
00:47:37,989 --> 00:47:40,734
under the prime category.

1303
00:47:40,734 --> 00:47:44,679
If it's designated
prime farmland by SCS,

1304
00:47:44,679 --> 00:47:46,629
isn't that already
covered in

1305
00:47:46,629 --> 00:47:48,354
part of your thing?

1306
00:47:48,354 --> 00:47:49,240
What I guess I'm concerned

1307
00:47:49,240 --> 00:47:50,260
about is that
stuff has got

1308
00:47:50,260 --> 00:47:53,449
a prime designation
that's non-irrigated,

1309
00:47:53,730 --> 00:47:56,229
wouldn't be covered, would

1310
00:47:56,229 --> 00:47:57,939
have a prime designation.

1311
00:47:57,939 --> 00:48:00,999
But it's not considered
prime farmland

1312
00:48:00,999 --> 00:48:02,589
because it's not being

1313
00:48:02,589 --> 00:48:04,404
irrigated is what
I'm concerned about.

1314
00:48:04,404 --> 00:48:06,564
Then at the crops,
your listing

1315
00:48:06,564 --> 00:48:08,815
would kick it back out.

1316
00:48:08,815 --> 00:48:10,599
The non-seasonal orders.

1317
00:48:10,599 --> 00:48:12,009
I understand. I thought

1318
00:48:12,009 --> 00:48:13,300
there was a problem
though that some

1319
00:48:13,300 --> 00:48:15,069
of the irrigated
land did not come

1320
00:48:15,069 --> 00:48:17,064
out as class one or
two primary unique.

1321
00:48:17,064 --> 00:48:18,519
There is some of that too,

1322
00:48:18,519 --> 00:48:20,499
where I've wondered if
we cure the problem,

1323
00:48:20,499 --> 00:48:22,390
if we simply made
all irrigated land

1324
00:48:22,390 --> 00:48:25,089
in Eastern Oregon
high-value.

1325
00:48:25,089 --> 00:48:27,230
What about what
about the dry lands?

1326
00:48:27,230 --> 00:48:29,019
So well, obviously
there's a lot of

1327
00:48:29,019 --> 00:48:31,360
dry land because all
bright and what they do,

1328
00:48:31,360 --> 00:48:32,649
they do produce crops.

1329
00:48:32,649 --> 00:48:36,040
So why not just say
if you produce crops

1330
00:48:36,040 --> 00:48:38,560
that they're all
high bay farmland,

1331
00:48:38,560 --> 00:48:40,569
what's wrong with that?

1332
00:48:40,569 --> 00:48:42,534
Some people have objected.

1333
00:48:42,534 --> 00:48:43,359
Well, I understand,

1334
00:48:43,359 --> 00:48:44,484
but they're
still producing.

1335
00:48:44,484 --> 00:48:45,759
So I mean, I
think what you're

1336
00:48:45,759 --> 00:48:47,020
doing is opened
up parts of

1337
00:48:47,020 --> 00:48:48,880
Central Oregon is
common escape valve

1338
00:48:48,880 --> 00:48:49,900
for development is what's

1339
00:48:49,900 --> 00:48:51,075
happened in here because.

1340
00:48:51,075 --> 00:48:52,639
Go to a lot of
trouble calling

1341
00:48:52,639 --> 00:48:54,734
out different soils that
should be protected.

1342
00:48:54,734 --> 00:48:56,135
And Willamette Valley,
when you come to

1343
00:48:56,135 --> 00:48:57,710
Eastern Oregon or
eastern mountain,

1344
00:48:57,710 --> 00:48:58,610
it seemed like you kind of

1345
00:48:58,610 --> 00:48:59,779
gloss over that
and just say

1346
00:48:59,779 --> 00:49:03,209
anything that produces
see art is out.

1347
00:49:03,520 --> 00:49:05,570
No, I mean, I
basically you see it.

1348
00:49:05,570 --> 00:49:06,200
You're just it's

1349
00:49:06,200 --> 00:49:07,729
just an escape
valve that side of

1350
00:49:07,729 --> 00:49:11,135
the mountain or
development bush.

1351
00:49:11,135 --> 00:49:14,825
So any comments?

1352
00:49:14,825 --> 00:49:16,220
Thank you very much.

1353
00:49:16,220 --> 00:49:16,745
All right.

1354
00:49:16,745 --> 00:49:18,920
The next one I have
up is Dale riddle,

1355
00:49:18,920 --> 00:49:20,360
can't haul and Mike Evans.

1356
00:49:20,360 --> 00:49:22,429
And can we take
this and be

1357
00:49:22,429 --> 00:49:25,369
sure to be out of here
and reasonable time?

1358
00:49:25,369 --> 00:49:28,174
They all are your
number one on the list.

1359
00:49:28,174 --> 00:49:30,049
You want to you
can do it now.

1360
00:49:30,049 --> 00:49:33,080
Why? We would like
to be out of here?

1361
00:49:33,080 --> 00:49:36,634
Why ten after 15 min.

1362
00:49:36,634 --> 00:49:37,550
Okay.

1363
00:49:37,550 --> 00:49:38,450
15 min.

1364
00:49:38,450 --> 00:49:40,160
And you've got
it provided.

1365
00:49:40,160 --> 00:49:42,245
You don't want to
ask any questions.

1366
00:49:42,245 --> 00:49:50,015
I won't dare. Good
morning, Commissioners.

1367
00:49:50,015 --> 00:49:52,199
I'm Kent how?

1368
00:49:52,540 --> 00:49:55,399
Planner with Lynn County
and I was asked to

1369
00:49:55,399 --> 00:49:58,129
participate on the
House negotiating team,

1370
00:49:58,129 --> 00:49:59,720
and I did receive
the blessing

1371
00:49:59,720 --> 00:50:02,074
of the link County
Board of Commissioners.

1372
00:50:02,074 --> 00:50:03,529
My left is my Kevin's

1373
00:50:03,529 --> 00:50:04,579
and write as del riddle,

1374
00:50:04,579 --> 00:50:06,929
I'll let them
introduce themselves.

1375
00:50:06,970 --> 00:50:09,769
I might give him his
I'm a private land

1376
00:50:09,769 --> 00:50:12,110
use consultant and I with

1377
00:50:12,110 --> 00:50:14,089
Kent and Dale
participated on

1378
00:50:14,089 --> 00:50:15,514
negotiating team on behalf

1379
00:50:15,514 --> 00:50:17,495
of the House
Representatives.

1380
00:50:17,495 --> 00:50:20,119
I'm Dale riddle. I'm a
partner in a law firm,

1381
00:50:20,119 --> 00:50:22,009
Eugene glyphs
orange and add all.

1382
00:50:22,009 --> 00:50:25,369
And I will talk

1383
00:50:25,369 --> 00:50:26,780
a little bit later
during my part about

1384
00:50:26,780 --> 00:50:29,300
my involvement in HB 3661.

1385
00:50:29,300 --> 00:50:31,114
There are seven
issues that

1386
00:50:31,114 --> 00:50:32,659
we'd like to
briefly cover with

1387
00:50:32,659 --> 00:50:35,629
the commission that
represent which

1388
00:50:35,629 --> 00:50:37,190
the proposed draft rules

1389
00:50:37,190 --> 00:50:38,539
do not represent what was

1390
00:50:38,539 --> 00:50:41,480
negotiated with a
legislature were here.

1391
00:50:41,480 --> 00:50:44,269
Our purpose is to provide

1392
00:50:44,269 --> 00:50:45,800
the relevant details of

1393
00:50:45,800 --> 00:50:48,305
the record that
provide the facts,

1394
00:50:48,305 --> 00:50:50,599
what was negotiated with

1395
00:50:50,599 --> 00:50:53,250
the governor's office
and the legislative.

1396
00:50:55,120 --> 00:50:57,529
The first issue would be

1397
00:50:57,529 --> 00:50:58,670
the rotating of

1398
00:50:58,670 --> 00:51:00,590
the hundred and
60 acre template.

1399
00:51:00,590 --> 00:51:03,034
The context of
the discussion

1400
00:51:03,034 --> 00:51:04,550
provided to you and

1401
00:51:04,550 --> 00:51:07,099
your staff report
is incomplete.

1402
00:51:07,099 --> 00:51:10,610
You've been provided
in the letter from

1403
00:51:10,610 --> 00:51:12,139
Dale riddle at

1404
00:51:12,139 --> 00:51:14,600
two representative bond
dated January 7th.

1405
00:51:14,600 --> 00:51:16,039
And you'll find in there

1406
00:51:16,039 --> 00:51:19,219
that in the
complete record,

1407
00:51:19,219 --> 00:51:22,459
the agreement was made
with an Squires of

1408
00:51:22,459 --> 00:51:24,290
the governor's office and

1409
00:51:24,290 --> 00:51:26,464
was incorporated
into the bill.

1410
00:51:26,464 --> 00:51:29,315
That was at the
template could turn

1411
00:51:29,315 --> 00:51:30,590
because of geographical

1412
00:51:30,590 --> 00:51:32,180
and topographical
realities.

1413
00:51:32,180 --> 00:51:32,869
In other words, that

1414
00:51:32,869 --> 00:51:34,819
the land use patterns that

1415
00:51:34,819 --> 00:51:36,499
don't orient themselves

1416
00:51:36,499 --> 00:51:38,165
in cardinal direction.

1417
00:51:38,165 --> 00:51:40,189
Maybe nearby exception

1418
00:51:40,189 --> 00:51:41,330
areas that are impacting

1419
00:51:41,330 --> 00:51:44,179
an area or clustering
of small parcels,

1420
00:51:44,179 --> 00:51:45,860
roads, rivers,
valleys, etc.

1421
00:51:45,860 --> 00:51:49,444
So the debate on which
agreement was reached

1422
00:51:49,444 --> 00:51:51,379
was that the
template could

1423
00:51:51,379 --> 00:51:54,569
rotate to a
fixed position.

1424
00:51:55,330 --> 00:51:58,564
Just to do that
and point out

1425
00:51:58,564 --> 00:52:02,150
the clerk patient in
the record The version

1426
00:52:02,150 --> 00:52:04,875
that in the current OER

1427
00:52:04,875 --> 00:52:07,249
before he was a
version that was

1428
00:52:07,249 --> 00:52:10,880
presented to the Senate
Senate Committee

1429
00:52:10,880 --> 00:52:11,899
on agriculture and natural

1430
00:52:11,899 --> 00:52:14,344
resources on July 29.

1431
00:52:14,344 --> 00:52:17,270
That particular
version was not agreed

1432
00:52:17,270 --> 00:52:20,539
upon from the House of
Representatives side.

1433
00:52:20,539 --> 00:52:25,775
And so Senator, need
the hearing on that.

1434
00:52:25,775 --> 00:52:29,780
And one other issue
for further analysis

1435
00:52:29,780 --> 00:52:32,179
and an opportunity
for the participants

1436
00:52:32,179 --> 00:52:35,555
to renegotiate that issue.

1437
00:52:35,555 --> 00:52:38,570
It was renegotiated that

1438
00:52:38,570 --> 00:52:39,889
evening and the
next morning

1439
00:52:39,889 --> 00:52:41,419
between the parties
who are involved

1440
00:52:41,419 --> 00:52:43,805
in negotiating
parties involved.

1441
00:52:43,805 --> 00:52:45,200
And it was agreed

1442
00:52:45,200 --> 00:52:46,805
upon that the
language that's

1443
00:52:46,805 --> 00:52:48,289
in the law would

1444
00:52:48,289 --> 00:52:50,074
be accepted as
an alternative.

1445
00:52:50,074 --> 00:52:53,720
In other words, the
specific amendment

1446
00:52:53,720 --> 00:52:54,874
was revised

1447
00:52:54,874 --> 00:52:57,709
to eliminate
the requirement

1448
00:52:57,709 --> 00:52:59,990
that the square be
in a fixed position.

1449
00:52:59,990 --> 00:53:03,750
And very record that
that was accomplished.

1450
00:53:04,420 --> 00:53:06,830
Let me just speak
to that briefly,

1451
00:53:06,830 --> 00:53:09,019
but I think I think we can

1452
00:53:09,019 --> 00:53:11,764
keep this down to
the time required.

1453
00:53:11,764 --> 00:53:13,294
I think it helped
get a little bit of

1454
00:53:13,294 --> 00:53:15,679
a background of how this
bill was negotiated,

1455
00:53:15,679 --> 00:53:17,210
the original building and

1456
00:53:17,210 --> 00:53:19,069
growth version with
past the house.

1457
00:53:19,069 --> 00:53:21,274
I was instructed by
the House leadership

1458
00:53:21,274 --> 00:53:22,670
to draft those provisions,

1459
00:53:22,670 --> 00:53:24,140
put the secondary
Lands Program.

1460
00:53:24,140 --> 00:53:27,319
And I was the
principal drafter of

1461
00:53:27,319 --> 00:53:29,360
the bill that
passed the House

1462
00:53:29,360 --> 00:53:31,924
when it got to the
Senate at that time,

1463
00:53:31,924 --> 00:53:33,650
they engrossed version was

1464
00:53:33,650 --> 00:53:35,314
a secondary lands concept.

1465
00:53:35,314 --> 00:53:37,279
Being grossed version
was more than a lot

1466
00:53:37,279 --> 00:53:40,090
of record because of

1467
00:53:40,090 --> 00:53:41,619
the lateness and
the legislature was

1468
00:53:41,619 --> 00:53:43,600
decided rather
than the Senate

1469
00:53:43,600 --> 00:53:45,579
passing a version
which has a lot of

1470
00:53:45,579 --> 00:53:47,710
record concept and some
other concepts which

1471
00:53:47,710 --> 00:53:50,530
eventually got
past and being

1472
00:53:50,530 --> 00:53:51,759
dramatically different

1473
00:53:51,759 --> 00:53:52,900
from the house
and trying to

1474
00:53:52,900 --> 00:53:55,150
work that out in a
conference committee,

1475
00:53:55,150 --> 00:53:57,444
that there would be a
working group form.

1476
00:53:57,444 --> 00:53:59,379
In an essence, the
negotiations would

1477
00:53:59,379 --> 00:54:01,479
occur on the Senate side
and a working group,

1478
00:54:01,479 --> 00:54:02,740
in essence,
would be in lieu

1479
00:54:02,740 --> 00:54:04,615
of the conference
committee.

1480
00:54:04,615 --> 00:54:07,960
The working group, I was

1481
00:54:07,960 --> 00:54:09,789
directed by the House
leadership to be

1482
00:54:09,789 --> 00:54:13,010
the chief negotiator on
behalf of the house.

1483
00:54:13,080 --> 00:54:15,849
The working group
included I believe

1484
00:54:15,849 --> 00:54:18,399
everybody should have
a copy of my letter.

1485
00:54:18,399 --> 00:54:20,230
If you don't, I've
got an extra copy.

1486
00:54:20,230 --> 00:54:21,449
I wasn't sure.

1487
00:54:21,449 --> 00:54:24,140
Question Bridge.
Jati, got it or not.

1488
00:54:24,140 --> 00:54:25,970
One was the January

1489
00:54:25,970 --> 00:54:27,230
7th letters
representative.

1490
00:54:27,230 --> 00:54:30,210
Mom, it's in your
pillow pack.

1491
00:54:30,610 --> 00:54:33,350
What it sets out there
pretty clearly what

1492
00:54:33,350 --> 00:54:35,869
exactly happened during
the negotiations,

1493
00:54:35,869 --> 00:54:37,535
when we came in.

1494
00:54:37,535 --> 00:54:38,840
In terms of the
negotiation,

1495
00:54:38,840 --> 00:54:41,404
the Senate already
had a set of

1496
00:54:41,404 --> 00:54:44,719
factors or a draft

1497
00:54:44,719 --> 00:54:46,250
of where they
want it to be.

1498
00:54:46,250 --> 00:54:47,839
We presented what
it would take

1499
00:54:47,839 --> 00:54:48,859
an essence to avoid

1500
00:54:48,859 --> 00:54:50,015
the conference
committee or

1501
00:54:50,015 --> 00:54:52,985
avoid the meltdown
on the issue.

1502
00:54:52,985 --> 00:54:55,520
Then have the problem
with the LCC budget

1503
00:54:55,520 --> 00:54:57,859
which were going on
in the background.

1504
00:54:57,859 --> 00:55:02,374
We met one of the we
had three basically,

1505
00:55:02,374 --> 00:55:05,555
I guess, semi
non negotiable

1506
00:55:05,555 --> 00:55:08,060
positions that
were presented.

1507
00:55:08,060 --> 00:55:11,585
One of them being the
having a dwelling,

1508
00:55:11,585 --> 00:55:13,219
recognizing a
dwellings for

1509
00:55:13,219 --> 00:55:14,809
the small woodlot
owner that

1510
00:55:14,809 --> 00:55:15,499
has come to be known

1511
00:55:15,499 --> 00:55:17,520
as the template dwelling.

1512
00:55:17,770 --> 00:55:20,450
What we had
originally demanded

1513
00:55:20,450 --> 00:55:22,759
was we go back to
the 990s rule,

1514
00:55:22,759 --> 00:55:24,559
which allowed the template

1515
00:55:24,559 --> 00:55:25,760
to the spine and
that there'll be

1516
00:55:25,760 --> 00:55:27,979
no homes have to be

1517
00:55:27,979 --> 00:55:30,785
within the parcels
in the template.

1518
00:55:30,785 --> 00:55:32,659
We eventually
compromised on

1519
00:55:32,659 --> 00:55:34,160
that and it was

1520
00:55:34,160 --> 00:55:36,110
agreed that there
would be three homes.

1521
00:55:36,110 --> 00:55:37,535
And in addition,

1522
00:55:37,535 --> 00:55:38,629
there with the
template could

1523
00:55:38,629 --> 00:55:41,284
be stretched out
one-quarter mile long.

1524
00:55:41,284 --> 00:55:43,580
You about it
erode, unknown

1525
00:55:43,580 --> 00:55:45,059
to the House negotiators.

1526
00:55:45,059 --> 00:55:47,480
This request, the
Governor's office,

1527
00:55:47,480 --> 00:55:50,045
the Senate portion
of negotiating team,

1528
00:55:50,045 --> 00:55:52,490
agreed during the day on

1529
00:55:52,490 --> 00:55:55,069
July 29th that the temple

1530
00:55:55,069 --> 00:55:56,510
would not be
allowed to rotate.

1531
00:55:56,510 --> 00:55:57,589
They then
presented that to

1532
00:55:57,589 --> 00:55:58,909
the committee that night.

1533
00:55:58,909 --> 00:56:00,769
It was caught by
representative bomb

1534
00:56:00,769 --> 00:56:02,450
and the negotiating team.

1535
00:56:02,450 --> 00:56:04,400
And in very polite
terms and it's

1536
00:56:04,400 --> 00:56:06,484
all in the letter to
Representative bomb.

1537
00:56:06,484 --> 00:56:07,970
It was letting me know
that the committee

1538
00:56:07,970 --> 00:56:09,529
that that was a
deal breaker.

1539
00:56:09,529 --> 00:56:12,079
And at about nine or
10:00 that night,

1540
00:56:12,079 --> 00:56:13,519
they adjourned and decided

1541
00:56:13,519 --> 00:56:15,319
that we would meet the
following morning.

1542
00:56:15,319 --> 00:56:16,609
I believe it was
about 08:30 and see

1543
00:56:16,609 --> 00:56:18,019
if we couldn't resolve
our differences.

1544
00:56:18,019 --> 00:56:20,269
We did resolve
our differences.

1545
00:56:20,269 --> 00:56:22,430
Well, senators and
representatives were in

1546
00:56:22,430 --> 00:56:24,400
the meeting and squares

1547
00:56:24,400 --> 00:56:26,050
from the governor's
office, Dick winner,

1548
00:56:26,050 --> 00:56:26,739
the director who was in

1549
00:56:26,739 --> 00:56:27,970
the meeting and it
was agreed that

1550
00:56:27,970 --> 00:56:30,174
the template would be
allowed to rotate,

1551
00:56:30,174 --> 00:56:32,229
that the amendment
that had been

1552
00:56:32,229 --> 00:56:35,064
adopted the night before
would be rejected.

1553
00:56:35,064 --> 00:56:36,999
And that we
would go back to

1554
00:56:36,999 --> 00:56:39,339
the 1990 rule and
the restrictions

1555
00:56:39,339 --> 00:56:41,260
that are currently
in the 1992 rule

1556
00:56:41,260 --> 00:56:42,309
which we're
operating under day

1557
00:56:42,309 --> 00:56:43,794
would not be in effect.

1558
00:56:43,794 --> 00:56:46,880
I think that's pretty
clear from the record.

1559
00:56:46,890 --> 00:56:49,179
And I'd be glad

1560
00:56:49,179 --> 00:56:50,409
to answer any questions
you may have.

1561
00:56:50,409 --> 00:56:51,100
But I wanted to set up

1562
00:56:51,100 --> 00:56:52,779
that context because
that context

1563
00:56:52,779 --> 00:56:54,370
then applies to some
of the other issues

1564
00:56:54,370 --> 00:56:56,419
we're going to talk
about in a minute.

1565
00:56:56,790 --> 00:56:59,094
Why would I have
a question?

1566
00:56:59,094 --> 00:57:00,429
I think the
critical thing is,

1567
00:57:00,429 --> 00:57:01,179
what did the House and the

1568
00:57:01,179 --> 00:57:02,169
Senate actually vote on?

1569
00:57:02,169 --> 00:57:03,429
And we've had
some testimony

1570
00:57:03,429 --> 00:57:04,690
that indicated
that the senate,

1571
00:57:04,690 --> 00:57:06,950
I believe at
least indicated

1572
00:57:06,950 --> 00:57:08,030
that, yes, it
could rotate,

1573
00:57:08,030 --> 00:57:10,040
but discrepancy on how

1574
00:57:10,040 --> 00:57:11,450
far you could line

1575
00:57:11,450 --> 00:57:12,739
up with the roads or
something like that,

1576
00:57:12,739 --> 00:57:13,820
but it could not
be spun just

1577
00:57:13,820 --> 00:57:15,185
to include more houses.

1578
00:57:15,185 --> 00:57:16,279
Vice-chairman Macpherson,

1579
00:57:16,279 --> 00:57:17,840
have you read
through my letter?

1580
00:57:17,840 --> 00:57:18,920
No, I haven't.

1581
00:57:18,920 --> 00:57:20,480
I think it was attempted

1582
00:57:20,480 --> 00:57:21,710
to be delivered
to my place,

1583
00:57:21,710 --> 00:57:22,460
but it was too carried

1584
00:57:22,460 --> 00:57:23,674
away because I
wasn't home.

1585
00:57:23,674 --> 00:57:25,489
Okay. I think

1586
00:57:25,489 --> 00:57:26,539
if you were reviewed
the letter,

1587
00:57:26,539 --> 00:57:28,595
you'll see the entire
legislative record

1588
00:57:28,595 --> 00:57:31,130
and what shows
in contexts.

1589
00:57:31,130 --> 00:57:33,049
Senator Collins, comments.

1590
00:57:33,049 --> 00:57:34,219
I think the
comments that you

1591
00:57:34,219 --> 00:57:37,250
received and the packet

1592
00:57:37,250 --> 00:57:38,809
may not be intentionally

1593
00:57:38,809 --> 00:57:40,054
are certainly misleading

1594
00:57:40,054 --> 00:57:41,239
and do not show
an accurate

1595
00:57:41,239 --> 00:57:42,890
reflection of
what happened.

1596
00:57:42,890 --> 00:57:45,379
And when you read that,

1597
00:57:45,379 --> 00:57:48,260
I believe in its pages for

1598
00:57:48,260 --> 00:57:57,409
through pages or through

1599
00:57:57,409 --> 00:58:00,260
12th of the letter,

1600
00:58:00,260 --> 00:58:02,240
give a complete
legislative record,

1601
00:58:02,240 --> 00:58:05,374
including the comments
by Senator colon.

1602
00:58:05,374 --> 00:58:07,670
Colon and more accurately

1603
00:58:07,670 --> 00:58:09,439
reflect the context
in which she said

1604
00:58:09,439 --> 00:58:10,670
was she sat and show

1605
00:58:10,670 --> 00:58:12,799
the statement with
some verbiage

1606
00:58:12,799 --> 00:58:15,019
that was not allowed
in your report.

1607
00:58:15,019 --> 00:58:18,139
But your Macpherson,
I might add

1608
00:58:18,139 --> 00:58:21,214
that when we were in the
negotiating session,

1609
00:58:21,214 --> 00:58:23,239
the issue of course,

1610
00:58:23,239 --> 00:58:25,144
was discussed on whether
the square should

1611
00:58:25,144 --> 00:58:27,534
be perpendicular
and parallel,

1612
00:58:27,534 --> 00:58:29,260
proper to section lines

1613
00:58:29,260 --> 00:58:30,009
or whether it shouldn't.

1614
00:58:30,009 --> 00:58:31,944
There's a lot
of discussion.

1615
00:58:31,944 --> 00:58:35,184
It was agreed
that because of

1616
00:58:35,184 --> 00:58:36,625
topographic conditions or

1617
00:58:36,625 --> 00:58:38,439
road situations or
that sort of thing,

1618
00:58:38,439 --> 00:58:41,184
that it didn't make
common sense to fix it.

1619
00:58:41,184 --> 00:58:43,165
Therefore, it
could rotate,

1620
00:58:43,165 --> 00:58:45,174
but it wasn't it wasn't

1621
00:58:45,174 --> 00:58:48,354
only because

1622
00:58:48,354 --> 00:58:50,020
of road and topographic

1623
00:58:50,020 --> 00:58:51,780
conditions that
it could be.

1624
00:58:51,780 --> 00:58:54,294
The reason that it
wasn't limited to that

1625
00:58:54,294 --> 00:58:57,220
was that that is too
subjective standard.

1626
00:58:57,220 --> 00:58:59,260
And it was agreed that if

1627
00:58:59,260 --> 00:59:01,284
a parcel was
impacted because

1628
00:59:01,284 --> 00:59:02,709
there were a certain
number of parcels

1629
00:59:02,709 --> 00:59:04,030
and dwellings around
it then it was

1630
00:59:04,030 --> 00:59:06,024
impacted really
didn't matter

1631
00:59:06,024 --> 00:59:07,810
how the Square was fixed.

1632
00:59:07,810 --> 00:59:10,150
It was simply important
that it be fixed,

1633
00:59:10,150 --> 00:59:13,165
that it couldn't continue
to rotate around.

1634
00:59:13,165 --> 00:59:17,904
And another component
of that that was

1635
00:59:17,904 --> 00:59:23,290
required by the governor's
office was that

1636
00:59:23,290 --> 00:59:25,000
the date of the
parses that

1637
00:59:25,000 --> 00:59:27,909
existed around that
area had to be

1638
00:59:27,909 --> 00:59:29,169
parcels that existed on

1639
00:59:29,169 --> 00:59:31,180
1993 and that
was to prevent

1640
00:59:31,180 --> 00:59:33,400
the creeping or a
parcel that wouldn't

1641
00:59:33,400 --> 00:59:34,750
qualify today because it

1642
00:59:34,750 --> 00:59:36,099
didn't have enough
parcels around.

1643
00:59:36,099 --> 00:59:37,390
It might fall by

1644
00:59:37,390 --> 00:59:39,535
five years from now,
personalization.

1645
00:59:39,535 --> 00:59:41,080
So the date was fixed

1646
00:59:41,080 --> 00:59:43,570
on the qualifying courses.

1647
00:59:43,570 --> 00:59:45,610
I think if you
have a chance to

1648
00:59:45,610 --> 00:59:47,770
review the letter
in the context,

1649
00:59:47,770 --> 00:59:49,855
I think you'll
you'll be convinced.

1650
00:59:49,855 --> 00:59:51,879
With the record was
and there's no room

1651
00:59:51,879 --> 00:59:53,589
for debate about what
people's memories are.

1652
00:59:53,589 --> 00:59:55,659
It's clear from the
transcripts of the tapes.

1653
00:59:55,659 --> 00:59:58,239
There's one thing
that I appreciate,

1654
00:59:58,239 --> 01:00:00,280
you're laying it
out fairly fully,

1655
01:00:00,280 --> 01:00:02,845
but you don't lay out
Joyce cones remark.

1656
01:00:02,845 --> 01:00:05,785
In context, you
selectively

1657
01:00:05,785 --> 01:00:08,214
draw a clause from it.

1658
01:00:08,214 --> 01:00:10,240
So there is something
missing here,

1659
01:00:10,240 --> 01:00:12,024
and we can lay that out.

1660
01:00:12,024 --> 01:00:13,599
I've got the
whole transcript

1661
01:00:13,599 --> 01:00:15,039
in the book and I could
read it right here,

1662
01:00:15,039 --> 01:00:17,590
but she the contact

1663
01:00:17,590 --> 01:00:19,675
and what exactly she said.

1664
01:00:19,675 --> 01:00:21,759
And I would just
encourage you to

1665
01:00:21,759 --> 01:00:23,559
read the letter and

1666
01:00:23,559 --> 01:00:24,999
everything that's in
it and be glad to

1667
01:00:24,999 --> 01:00:28,010
provide you with the
entire transcripts.

1668
01:00:31,940 --> 01:00:36,629
Second point,
regarding the creation

1669
01:00:36,629 --> 01:00:37,979
of a new five acre parcel

1670
01:00:37,979 --> 01:00:39,495
for an existing dwelling.

1671
01:00:39,495 --> 01:00:41,399
That's item number eight

1672
01:00:41,399 --> 01:00:42,884
in your staff report.

1673
01:00:42,884 --> 01:00:44,640
For forest lands.

1674
01:00:44,640 --> 01:00:46,260
This provision doesn't

1675
01:00:46,260 --> 01:00:47,640
relate to a new dwelling.

1676
01:00:47,640 --> 01:00:49,590
There seems to be some
confusion over that.

1677
01:00:49,590 --> 01:00:50,789
It's a provision
that allows

1678
01:00:50,789 --> 01:00:52,800
the land division
and it is

1679
01:00:52,800 --> 01:00:54,900
not inconsistent with
legislative direction

1680
01:00:54,900 --> 01:00:56,400
of hospital 36, 61.

1681
01:00:56,400 --> 01:00:57,630
The purpose is for

1682
01:00:57,630 --> 01:01:00,539
land exchanges and
consolidation of

1683
01:01:00,539 --> 01:01:01,889
forest lands so that

1684
01:01:01,889 --> 01:01:03,390
forest landowners
don't have to

1685
01:01:03,390 --> 01:01:05,055
purchase the
home side value.

1686
01:01:05,055 --> 01:01:06,615
The legal authority
comes from

1687
01:01:06,615 --> 01:01:08,414
1990 to go for rule,

1688
01:01:08,414 --> 01:01:11,159
which allows you five
acre land divisions to

1689
01:01:11,159 --> 01:01:13,199
segregate the
existing dwelling

1690
01:01:13,199 --> 01:01:15,694
remainder of the
forest land.

1691
01:01:15,694 --> 01:01:18,519
Just speak to
that issue real

1692
01:01:18,519 --> 01:01:21,430
briefly on again, the
legislative contexts.

1693
01:01:21,430 --> 01:01:24,100
One of the other issues
was the effect of

1694
01:01:24,100 --> 01:01:25,629
House Bill 3661 on

1695
01:01:25,629 --> 01:01:26,949
the current farm
enforce rules.

1696
01:01:26,949 --> 01:01:29,935
That was the second
non negotiable item.

1697
01:01:29,935 --> 01:01:31,660
There was an past reach

1698
01:01:31,660 --> 01:01:33,189
basically between the
House and the Senate

1699
01:01:33,189 --> 01:01:34,659
on that issue and it
was decided to break

1700
01:01:34,659 --> 01:01:36,279
that impasse that
I would meet

1701
01:01:36,279 --> 01:01:37,839
with Mr. Mentor to see if

1702
01:01:37,839 --> 01:01:39,594
we cannot work out
our differences

1703
01:01:39,594 --> 01:01:41,410
or to at least
clarify what

1704
01:01:41,410 --> 01:01:42,189
the agreements were on

1705
01:01:42,189 --> 01:01:44,079
the effect of those rules.

1706
01:01:44,079 --> 01:01:45,685
We met.

1707
01:01:45,685 --> 01:01:48,325
And in fact, we were
able to work out

1708
01:01:48,325 --> 01:01:50,769
our differences
on what rules

1709
01:01:50,769 --> 01:01:53,079
would be retained and
what would not be.

1710
01:01:53,079 --> 01:01:54,969
I send a copy of my notes

1711
01:01:54,969 --> 01:01:58,059
to Dick and gray
wolf a concerning

1712
01:01:58,059 --> 01:02:01,165
the meeting which
indicate that

1713
01:02:01,165 --> 01:02:03,490
this particular
provision would be

1714
01:02:03,490 --> 01:02:06,460
allowed to continue
in the rules.

1715
01:02:06,460 --> 01:02:09,100
That's at page two
of exhibit one,

1716
01:02:09,100 --> 01:02:10,555
which is attached
to my letter.

1717
01:02:10,555 --> 01:02:12,040
You'll also note in

1718
01:02:12,040 --> 01:02:13,089
both the House
and the Senate

1719
01:02:13,089 --> 01:02:14,109
floor debates at this was

1720
01:02:14,109 --> 01:02:16,690
specifically discussed

1721
01:02:16,690 --> 01:02:19,465
and in response
to questions,

1722
01:02:19,465 --> 01:02:21,550
discussion between
the senator

1723
01:02:21,550 --> 01:02:23,019
Stan and Jim Bond and

1724
01:02:23,019 --> 01:02:24,309
the similar
discussion between

1725
01:02:24,309 --> 01:02:25,479
represented Maryland Dale

1726
01:02:25,479 --> 01:02:26,980
and representative bomb,

1727
01:02:26,980 --> 01:02:29,200
that they indicated that

1728
01:02:29,200 --> 01:02:30,550
the division standards for

1729
01:02:30,550 --> 01:02:31,824
the non porous uses,

1730
01:02:31,824 --> 01:02:34,315
that House Bill 3661

1731
01:02:34,315 --> 01:02:37,550
would not require those
to be eliminated.

1732
01:02:38,370 --> 01:02:41,109
Conditioners.
You went through

1733
01:02:41,109 --> 01:02:42,639
you and DLC D went

1734
01:02:42,639 --> 01:02:45,550
through years of analysis

1735
01:02:45,550 --> 01:02:47,679
and debate to allow
for this provision.

1736
01:02:47,679 --> 01:02:49,525
It's basically a
homestead provision

1737
01:02:49,525 --> 01:02:51,280
allowing a
person to retain

1738
01:02:51,280 --> 01:02:53,019
their home and five
acres and a sell off

1739
01:02:53,019 --> 01:02:53,799
the rest of land to

1740
01:02:53,799 --> 01:02:55,040
an adjoining
forest owners,

1741
01:02:55,040 --> 01:02:56,289
that sort of thing.

1742
01:02:56,289 --> 01:02:58,839
We think it's a good
thing to retain.

1743
01:02:58,839 --> 01:03:00,609
We think the
authority exists in

1744
01:03:00,609 --> 01:03:03,069
3661 to retain that in

1745
01:03:03,069 --> 01:03:05,004
that the commission
can authorize

1746
01:03:05,004 --> 01:03:06,415
parcels less than

1747
01:03:06,415 --> 01:03:09,864
80 acres if they deem
that to be appropriate.

1748
01:03:09,864 --> 01:03:14,185
And in the same section
that you can allow

1749
01:03:14,185 --> 01:03:16,389
a smaller than
80 acre parcel

1750
01:03:16,389 --> 01:03:18,834
for a fire station,

1751
01:03:18,834 --> 01:03:21,504
a utility facility
of some sort.

1752
01:03:21,504 --> 01:03:23,050
You can also
allow a parcel

1753
01:03:23,050 --> 01:03:24,369
of why bakers or less,

1754
01:03:24,369 --> 01:03:26,215
for an existing
dwelling that exists,

1755
01:03:26,215 --> 01:03:27,970
we would simply urge that

1756
01:03:27,970 --> 01:03:30,340
be retained in the rule

1757
01:03:30,340 --> 01:03:32,755
and it wasn't the intent

1758
01:03:32,755 --> 01:03:33,940
of the legislature to

1759
01:03:33,940 --> 01:03:36,079
eliminate that position.

1760
01:03:37,530 --> 01:03:39,789
Next point has to do with

1761
01:03:39,789 --> 01:03:42,385
the subjective citing
standards for dwelling.

1762
01:03:42,385 --> 01:03:44,424
I refer you to page 28 of

1763
01:03:44,424 --> 01:03:46,540
36 of the Gulf
War rules that

1764
01:03:46,540 --> 01:03:50,004
are we concur with

1765
01:03:50,004 --> 01:03:51,999
Joanne Rice's comments the

1766
01:03:51,999 --> 01:03:55,270
previous person
to testify,

1767
01:03:55,270 --> 01:04:00,259
without dwelling on that,

1768
01:04:00,300 --> 01:04:02,800
basically boils down to

1769
01:04:02,800 --> 01:04:06,719
having to make
findings that

1770
01:04:06,719 --> 01:04:07,829
the sighting ensures that

1771
01:04:07,829 --> 01:04:09,690
adverse impacts on
forest operation and

1772
01:04:09,690 --> 01:04:11,819
accepted farm practices on

1773
01:04:11,819 --> 01:04:13,020
the track will
be minimized.

1774
01:04:13,020 --> 01:04:15,960
This is a very
subjective standard.

1775
01:04:15,960 --> 01:04:18,255
Enters in the discretion.

1776
01:04:18,255 --> 01:04:20,760
And the interests
of legislature was

1777
01:04:20,760 --> 01:04:23,234
that these types of

1778
01:04:23,234 --> 01:04:25,829
objections fighting
standards would not

1779
01:04:25,829 --> 01:04:29,400
be part of the new rule.

1780
01:04:29,400 --> 01:04:34,020
That links to the
another point

1781
01:04:34,020 --> 01:04:35,715
that has to do with the
temporary hardship,

1782
01:04:35,715 --> 01:04:38,234
growing temporary
hardship flowing

1783
01:04:38,234 --> 01:04:41,384
also references those
same citing standards.

1784
01:04:41,384 --> 01:04:45,719
The proposed draft
rural reference,

1785
01:04:45,719 --> 01:04:47,224
deciding standard,

1786
01:04:47,224 --> 01:04:48,849
great hardship
dwellings that require

1787
01:04:48,849 --> 01:04:50,469
the signing to ensure
that first impact,

1788
01:04:50,469 --> 01:04:52,419
worst operation excepted
farming practices

1789
01:04:52,419 --> 01:04:54,684
on the track will
be minimized.

1790
01:04:54,684 --> 01:04:57,040
Temporary hardship going
should not have to

1791
01:04:57,040 --> 01:04:58,059
address this rigorous

1792
01:04:58,059 --> 01:04:59,245
level of citing criteria.

1793
01:04:59,245 --> 01:05:00,594
They're gonna be located

1794
01:05:00,594 --> 01:05:02,364
near an existing dwelling.

1795
01:05:02,364 --> 01:05:04,599
Hooking in. The requirement
is they hook into

1796
01:05:04,599 --> 01:05:07,989
the existing drain field
and water systems.

1797
01:05:07,989 --> 01:05:12,700
So that was a
rigorous standard

1798
01:05:12,700 --> 01:05:15,070
that doesn't make sense
when we're trying

1799
01:05:15,070 --> 01:05:16,869
to be objective and

1800
01:05:16,869 --> 01:05:19,029
have clear and
objective standards.

1801
01:05:19,029 --> 01:05:21,820
I would note that this
issue is discussed at

1802
01:05:21,820 --> 01:05:24,760
page 13 of my letters
are representative mom.

1803
01:05:24,760 --> 01:05:29,470
Page 13,014.1 of the
key issues here was.

1804
01:05:29,470 --> 01:05:31,674
We'll wrap it up,

1805
01:05:31,674 --> 01:05:33,190
was that we wanted

1806
01:05:33,190 --> 01:05:35,379
the dwellings that are

1807
01:05:35,379 --> 01:05:36,864
gonna be allowed
by this bill,

1808
01:05:36,864 --> 01:05:39,700
the non doubt and
land use decisions,

1809
01:05:39,700 --> 01:05:40,569
we wanted people
to be able

1810
01:05:40,569 --> 01:05:41,560
to go to the calendar

1811
01:05:41,560 --> 01:05:44,065
with objective
criteria and

1812
01:05:44,065 --> 01:05:45,579
know based

1813
01:05:45,579 --> 01:05:46,899
upon the objective
criteria whether

1814
01:05:46,899 --> 01:05:47,679
or not they're
allowed to a

1815
01:05:47,679 --> 01:05:49,929
dwelling up or down.

1816
01:05:49,929 --> 01:05:52,690
And that was reflected

1817
01:05:52,690 --> 01:05:54,684
in our meeting that we had

1818
01:05:54,684 --> 01:05:55,569
that big banner and I

1819
01:05:55,569 --> 01:05:57,054
had where it
was agreed that

1820
01:05:57,054 --> 01:05:58,479
the objective
standards would

1821
01:05:58,479 --> 01:05:59,650
we replace excuse me,

1822
01:05:59,650 --> 01:06:00,939
the subjective
standards contained

1823
01:06:00,939 --> 01:06:01,750
in 0 29 would be

1824
01:06:01,750 --> 01:06:03,340
replaced by

1825
01:06:03,340 --> 01:06:05,170
the objective
standards in the bill.

1826
01:06:05,170 --> 01:06:06,729
I also would direct
your attention to

1827
01:06:06,729 --> 01:06:08,289
the comments made
by Maryland Dale,

1828
01:06:08,289 --> 01:06:09,369
which appear on page 11

1829
01:06:09,369 --> 01:06:10,449
of my letter
where she talks

1830
01:06:10,449 --> 01:06:12,100
about the very first

1831
01:06:12,100 --> 01:06:13,120
time in land use planning,

1832
01:06:13,120 --> 01:06:14,230
there's at least one type

1833
01:06:14,230 --> 01:06:15,129
of application where you

1834
01:06:15,129 --> 01:06:16,149
can go to the
county planning

1835
01:06:16,149 --> 01:06:17,259
office and at
the calendar,

1836
01:06:17,259 --> 01:06:18,400
Yes, you may need
some charts.

1837
01:06:18,400 --> 01:06:18,820
You may need

1838
01:06:18,820 --> 01:06:20,499
a template discussing
the template,

1839
01:06:20,499 --> 01:06:21,189
the fact that we don't

1840
01:06:21,189 --> 01:06:22,450
have a subjective criteria

1841
01:06:22,450 --> 01:06:23,770
like alignment
with the road

1842
01:06:23,770 --> 01:06:25,404
or something of
that nature.

1843
01:06:25,404 --> 01:06:26,830
You may need some charts,

1844
01:06:26,830 --> 01:06:27,639
you may need a template,

1845
01:06:27,639 --> 01:06:29,200
but right there you
will get your answer.

1846
01:06:29,200 --> 01:06:30,340
You will know how
that answer was

1847
01:06:30,340 --> 01:06:31,450
devised and that kind of

1848
01:06:31,450 --> 01:06:32,470
objective criteria is that

1849
01:06:32,470 --> 01:06:34,464
giant step forward
in this arena.

1850
01:06:34,464 --> 01:06:36,985
On the Senate side,
just the day before,

1851
01:06:36,985 --> 01:06:39,835
Senator cease makes
very similar comments.

1852
01:06:39,835 --> 01:06:41,470
Just after the comments

1853
01:06:41,470 --> 01:06:43,419
made by Senator colon,

1854
01:06:43,419 --> 01:06:45,804
which I think are
also relevant,

1855
01:06:45,804 --> 01:06:47,859
that the purpose of
this bill was to

1856
01:06:47,859 --> 01:06:49,690
provide objective
standards and allow

1857
01:06:49,690 --> 01:06:51,489
people to get permits

1858
01:06:51,489 --> 01:06:54,170
without having to go to
the land use process.

1859
01:06:54,350 --> 01:06:56,909
Very quickly,
commissioners,

1860
01:06:56,909 --> 01:07:01,080
on the hardship dwelling,

1861
01:07:01,080 --> 01:07:04,515
The biggest problem
is that that is

1862
01:07:04,515 --> 01:07:06,569
a land use decision and

1863
01:07:06,569 --> 01:07:09,569
it could be removed
in Section 2051,

1864
01:07:09,569 --> 01:07:12,510
which is a permitted
use in the forest zone,

1865
01:07:12,510 --> 01:07:16,049
and wouldn't be subject
than two criteria

1866
01:07:16,049 --> 01:07:17,505
which determine
whether or not

1867
01:07:17,505 --> 01:07:19,994
it is it Google or whether
it isn't approval.

1868
01:07:19,994 --> 01:07:22,064
It has to meet
certain standards

1869
01:07:22,064 --> 01:07:23,850
and is not necessarily

1870
01:07:23,850 --> 01:07:27,449
an allowed use in the
location that exists.

1871
01:07:27,449 --> 01:07:31,095
In other words, put it
in the same section

1872
01:07:31,095 --> 01:07:32,520
as replacement belongings,

1873
01:07:32,520 --> 01:07:33,629
and that would
make the process

1874
01:07:33,629 --> 01:07:35,709
much, much simpler.

1875
01:07:38,670 --> 01:07:41,140
On the second point on

1876
01:07:41,140 --> 01:07:43,090
this objective
standard issue.

1877
01:07:43,090 --> 01:07:46,119
Again, I think the
subjective standards are

1878
01:07:46,119 --> 01:07:49,239
appropriately in the rule

1879
01:07:49,239 --> 01:07:50,739
to guide the counties,

1880
01:07:50,739 --> 01:07:52,359
but the specific citing

1881
01:07:52,359 --> 01:07:53,980
standard should relate

1882
01:07:53,980 --> 01:07:55,870
to those as guidelines

1883
01:07:55,870 --> 01:07:57,790
rather than as
standards themselves.

1884
01:07:57,790 --> 01:07:58,959
I think they
can be left in

1885
01:07:58,959 --> 01:08:01,539
the rule rewritten
as they that be

1886
01:08:01,539 --> 01:08:03,369
citing standards are to

1887
01:08:03,369 --> 01:08:04,719
be applied by counties for

1888
01:08:04,719 --> 01:08:09,055
purposes of meeting the
subjective standards.

1889
01:08:09,055 --> 01:08:11,110
Going to cut you
off at this point,

1890
01:08:11,110 --> 01:08:13,360
Are you still want to
go on where I think

1891
01:08:13,360 --> 01:08:14,469
we wrap it up by asking

1892
01:08:14,469 --> 01:08:15,790
a question and that
might be the end of it.

1893
01:08:15,790 --> 01:08:19,599
I know that that

1894
01:08:19,599 --> 01:08:20,934
there was some concern by

1895
01:08:20,934 --> 01:08:22,659
the House legislative
leadership that

1896
01:08:22,659 --> 01:08:24,414
there hadn't
been a response

1897
01:08:24,414 --> 01:08:27,445
to the letter
and they wanted

1898
01:08:27,445 --> 01:08:30,879
a specific response so

1899
01:08:30,879 --> 01:08:32,754
that they can then
get back to you,

1900
01:08:32,754 --> 01:08:34,120
the leadership in terms of

1901
01:08:34,120 --> 01:08:35,995
test testimony
of their own.

1902
01:08:35,995 --> 01:08:37,390
I understand
it's urine can

1903
01:08:37,390 --> 01:08:39,264
at least my understanding

1904
01:08:39,264 --> 01:08:41,619
implicitly from your
discussions has

1905
01:08:41,619 --> 01:08:44,485
been that you intend to
adopt this tomorrow.

1906
01:08:44,485 --> 01:08:47,260
You can probably guess.

1907
01:08:47,260 --> 01:08:49,330
That would probably
have negative

1908
01:08:49,330 --> 01:08:50,560
political ramifications,

1909
01:08:50,560 --> 01:08:52,344
but that's part
of your job.

1910
01:08:52,344 --> 01:08:54,190
But I've been asked to

1911
01:08:54,190 --> 01:08:56,499
convey that that they
would like a response.

1912
01:08:56,499 --> 01:08:57,894
They would like to be able

1913
01:08:57,894 --> 01:08:59,860
to testify as to
these issues.

1914
01:08:59,860 --> 01:09:01,120
And for that reason,

1915
01:09:01,120 --> 01:09:02,904
they'd like to delay that

1916
01:09:02,904 --> 01:09:05,979
until the speaker is
back in the area.

1917
01:09:05,979 --> 01:09:07,479
Mr. Chair, Let me ask

1918
01:09:07,479 --> 01:09:08,500
a question and then they

1919
01:09:08,500 --> 01:09:09,640
cut his hand up version.

1920
01:09:09,640 --> 01:09:13,465
Should we get his
and then they'll

1921
01:09:13,465 --> 01:09:15,639
you call me to

1922
01:09:15,639 --> 01:09:17,184
let me know that the
letter was coming.

1923
01:09:17,184 --> 01:09:19,554
I think Monday,
a week ago.

1924
01:09:19,554 --> 01:09:20,469
I thought you had

1925
01:09:20,469 --> 01:09:22,584
the letter when I
let her decide.

1926
01:09:22,584 --> 01:09:24,819
We never did get
it from you.

1927
01:09:24,819 --> 01:09:29,875
It was copy was delivered
to us this Tuesday.

1928
01:09:29,875 --> 01:09:31,210
Bye Kelly Ross because

1929
01:09:31,210 --> 01:09:32,679
he had received a copy.

1930
01:09:32,679 --> 01:09:34,599
So after having
heard from you,

1931
01:09:34,599 --> 01:09:35,379
I kept waiting for

1932
01:09:35,379 --> 01:09:36,699
the letter but
it never came.

1933
01:09:36,699 --> 01:09:40,284
So we've only
had it two days.

1934
01:09:40,284 --> 01:09:42,774
And I didn't know.

1935
01:09:42,774 --> 01:09:44,469
Nobody has indicated
to me that

1936
01:09:44,469 --> 01:09:46,600
in a response
was expected.

1937
01:09:46,600 --> 01:09:47,950
So you're having
said it now as a

1938
01:09:47,950 --> 01:09:50,080
first that I've
heard of it.

1939
01:09:50,080 --> 01:09:51,880
I just wanted to
let you know that I

1940
01:09:51,880 --> 01:09:54,289
did not get this
when you sent it.

1941
01:09:55,530 --> 01:09:59,589
I wanted to ask the
letter that you want

1942
01:09:59,589 --> 01:10:00,609
a response to as

1943
01:10:00,609 --> 01:10:03,310
the January 7 letter?
That's correct.

1944
01:10:03,310 --> 01:10:06,490
It was written to
bomb and copied

1945
01:10:06,490 --> 01:10:07,719
the people that you want

1946
01:10:07,719 --> 01:10:10,104
response from people
that it was coffee to,

1947
01:10:10,104 --> 01:10:12,204
not from Britain to well,

1948
01:10:12,204 --> 01:10:13,959
a copy was sent to
Dick and I followed

1949
01:10:13,959 --> 01:10:15,789
up with a telephone call
the next day telling

1950
01:10:15,789 --> 01:10:16,809
him expect that he had

1951
01:10:16,809 --> 01:10:18,760
received a letter
and indicating that

1952
01:10:18,760 --> 01:10:23,095
that that it was sent.

1953
01:10:23,095 --> 01:10:25,509
Not to embarrass anybody,

1954
01:10:25,509 --> 01:10:27,084
but to open a dialogue

1955
01:10:27,084 --> 01:10:28,480
and to get a
response back.

1956
01:10:28,480 --> 01:10:29,530
And as soon as he
got it, I'd like

1957
01:10:29,530 --> 01:10:30,729
him to give a call.

1958
01:10:30,729 --> 01:10:34,480
We could discuss the
Department's response.

1959
01:10:34,480 --> 01:10:36,670
That apparently didn't
get and I didn't

1960
01:10:36,670 --> 01:10:37,545
realize I didn't
hear that we're

1961
01:10:37,545 --> 01:10:38,680
sending out January 7th.

1962
01:10:38,680 --> 01:10:41,229
I believe everybody
else got their copies.

1963
01:10:41,229 --> 01:10:44,289
And so there may just
been a mix-up in

1964
01:10:44,289 --> 01:10:46,329
the mailing system and

1965
01:10:46,329 --> 01:10:48,444
that may have occurred.

1966
01:10:48,444 --> 01:10:53,080
But the asking for

1967
01:10:53,080 --> 01:10:54,250
a response was in

1968
01:10:54,250 --> 01:10:56,289
the subsequent telephone
call letting him

1969
01:10:56,289 --> 01:10:57,459
know that we wouldn't act

1970
01:10:57,459 --> 01:10:58,689
like to talk about it.

1971
01:10:58,689 --> 01:11:00,099
And that was the
intent of that,

1972
01:11:00,099 --> 01:11:00,850
but he didn't have it.

1973
01:11:00,850 --> 01:11:01,600
So we couldn't go onto

1974
01:11:01,600 --> 01:11:03,579
a conversation
about the letter.

1975
01:11:03,579 --> 01:11:05,950
But surely it's your
property to do as

1976
01:11:05,950 --> 01:11:07,854
you please, uh,
regarded it.

1977
01:11:07,854 --> 01:11:10,284
But I think when
you do that,

1978
01:11:10,284 --> 01:11:11,785
you should take
a hard look

1979
01:11:11,785 --> 01:11:13,689
at the letters yourself,

1980
01:11:13,689 --> 01:11:15,624
because I think
you'll find

1981
01:11:15,624 --> 01:11:17,439
that the
legislative history

1982
01:11:17,439 --> 01:11:21,594
is very clear on the
issues that we bring up.

1983
01:11:21,594 --> 01:11:23,770
Thank you very much.
No. You don't feel

1984
01:11:23,770 --> 01:11:25,284
there's been ample time

1985
01:11:25,284 --> 01:11:30,175
for the leadership
to comment on this.

1986
01:11:30,175 --> 01:11:32,979
The leadership had
expected and we're

1987
01:11:32,979 --> 01:11:34,750
expecting a response and

1988
01:11:34,750 --> 01:11:35,784
didn't feel it
was necessary.

1989
01:11:35,784 --> 01:11:37,780
I'm not talking
specifically on the letter,

1990
01:11:37,780 --> 01:11:42,099
but on the overall rules

1991
01:11:42,099 --> 01:11:45,894
that have been out
for quite some time,

1992
01:11:45,894 --> 01:11:47,109
they're common
in essence is

1993
01:11:47,109 --> 01:11:49,400
in the letter to
Representative bomb.

1994
01:11:49,500 --> 01:11:51,730
There were aware
of the letter.

1995
01:11:51,730 --> 01:11:54,489
We went over the letter
and it will be copies

1996
01:11:54,489 --> 01:11:58,134
will be provided to DLC.

1997
01:11:58,134 --> 01:12:00,369
They were and
so you can take

1998
01:12:00,369 --> 01:12:02,349
that in essence as
the initial response.

1999
01:12:02,349 --> 01:12:05,379
They just your
response back maybe

2000
01:12:05,379 --> 01:12:09,459
simply the adoption of
the rules. Mr. Chair.

2001
01:12:09,459 --> 01:12:11,995
Let me just follow
up a little bit.

2002
01:12:11,995 --> 01:12:14,769
I'm still a little still

2003
01:12:14,769 --> 01:12:16,839
having some difficulty
understanding that

2004
01:12:16,839 --> 01:12:20,364
there's a leadership
expectation

2005
01:12:20,364 --> 01:12:22,390
that somebody respond to

2006
01:12:22,390 --> 01:12:25,225
a letter written
to somebody else.

2007
01:12:25,225 --> 01:12:28,450
It sounds a little
confusing to me.

2008
01:12:28,450 --> 01:12:30,759
Who is the leadership
you're talking about?

2009
01:12:30,759 --> 01:12:33,609
Where was the
communication?

2010
01:12:33,609 --> 01:12:35,829
I guess communicated
that there was

2011
01:12:35,829 --> 01:12:37,959
an expectation by whoever

2012
01:12:37,959 --> 01:12:41,889
the leadership is
that the department

2013
01:12:41,889 --> 01:12:44,004
respond to a letter
that's written to

2014
01:12:44,004 --> 01:12:46,660
a legislator in
Eastern Oregon?

2015
01:12:46,660 --> 01:12:48,399
The whole thing is
very confusing.

2016
01:12:48,399 --> 01:12:51,160
I'm sorry if I hadn't
been very articulate.

2017
01:12:51,160 --> 01:12:53,830
The leadership asked me
to draft a letter to

2018
01:12:53,830 --> 01:12:55,359
a representative
bomb because he was

2019
01:12:55,359 --> 01:12:56,920
chair of the committee
that it went through.

2020
01:12:56,920 --> 01:12:58,180
It's going over

2021
01:12:58,180 --> 01:12:59,935
the inconsistencies
that we had,

2022
01:12:59,935 --> 01:13:01,479
that representative
bomb and

2023
01:13:01,479 --> 01:13:03,490
the speaker's office
we had discussed me.

2024
01:13:03,490 --> 01:13:05,200
I mean, I just
interrupt and

2025
01:13:05,200 --> 01:13:07,104
ask who the leadership is.

2026
01:13:07,104 --> 01:13:08,184
Who are these people?

2027
01:13:08,184 --> 01:13:09,549
Because the
speakers, Rob stated

2028
01:13:09,549 --> 01:13:12,729
bomb the speaker's office
and representative.

2029
01:13:12,729 --> 01:13:13,269
Correct.

2030
01:13:13,269 --> 01:13:15,669
Asked you to do this,
correct. I see.

2031
01:13:15,669 --> 01:13:16,135
Okay.

2032
01:13:16,135 --> 01:13:16,840
Thank you.

2033
01:13:16,840 --> 01:13:18,610
And then I follow
that up because

2034
01:13:18,610 --> 01:13:20,410
I was three days
after the letter

2035
01:13:20,410 --> 01:13:24,220
had been sent out with
a telephone call,

2036
01:13:24,220 --> 01:13:27,730
the director
indicating that,

2037
01:13:27,730 --> 01:13:29,800
assuming you had a
chance to look at it,

2038
01:13:29,800 --> 01:13:33,609
that we would like to
discuss it in the sense

2039
01:13:33,609 --> 01:13:36,070
that not the intent to
embarrass anybody if

2040
01:13:36,070 --> 01:13:37,389
people hadn't had a
chance to go back

2041
01:13:37,389 --> 01:13:38,725
and look
legislative record,

2042
01:13:38,725 --> 01:13:40,270
it would give
people a chance

2043
01:13:40,270 --> 01:13:42,669
to respond to
that as it was.

2044
01:13:42,669 --> 01:13:44,349
It's too bad.

2045
01:13:44,349 --> 01:13:45,190
The letter just wasn't

2046
01:13:45,190 --> 01:13:47,005
received to a
couple of days ago.

2047
01:13:47,005 --> 01:13:48,849
So in that light, I mean,

2048
01:13:48,849 --> 01:13:52,509
the simple thing here
is we want the rules to

2049
01:13:52,509 --> 01:13:54,460
be as good as possible

2050
01:13:54,460 --> 01:13:55,720
and is consistent with

2051
01:13:55,720 --> 01:13:56,889
the legislation
as possible.

2052
01:13:56,889 --> 01:13:57,879
I mean, I think
that's our goal.

2053
01:13:57,879 --> 01:13:59,559
That's the objective is
not to point fingers

2054
01:13:59,559 --> 01:14:03,010
if you didn't get there,
if we didn't own it.

2055
01:14:03,010 --> 01:14:05,440
And so I would just
encourage you to take

2056
01:14:05,440 --> 01:14:06,849
the time necessary to

2057
01:14:06,849 --> 01:14:08,904
take a look at
legislative history.

2058
01:14:08,904 --> 01:14:10,300
Howard didn't get here,

2059
01:14:10,300 --> 01:14:13,269
did get here, and

2060
01:14:13,269 --> 01:14:15,470
go forward.
Based upon that.

2061
01:14:16,500 --> 01:14:18,940
I'm going to cut it
off at this point.

2062
01:14:18,940 --> 01:14:19,690
If you have a column

2063
01:14:19,690 --> 01:14:21,340
at the last point
I wanted to

2064
01:14:21,340 --> 01:14:22,780
make was on the provisions

2065
01:14:22,780 --> 01:14:23,979
for high-value farmlands,

2066
01:14:23,979 --> 01:14:25,719
for marginal lands,
and we'd just concur

2067
01:14:25,719 --> 01:14:27,969
with rent Curtis of
Washington County.

2068
01:14:27,969 --> 01:14:29,979
Okay. We have the
same concerns

2069
01:14:29,979 --> 01:14:31,750
regarding that for lane.

2070
01:14:31,750 --> 01:14:33,250
I would note
dress somebody

2071
01:14:33,250 --> 01:14:34,615
hear from speakers off.

2072
01:14:34,615 --> 01:14:37,359
That may want to
clarify if there

2073
01:14:37,359 --> 01:14:38,545
was confusion about

2074
01:14:38,545 --> 01:14:40,750
the last issue we
just discussed.

2075
01:14:40,750 --> 01:14:42,609
And I apologize if I

2076
01:14:42,609 --> 01:14:43,840
contributed to
that confusion.

2077
01:14:43,840 --> 01:14:45,474
Well, you'll be
around this afternoon

2078
01:14:45,474 --> 01:14:46,720
or actually it's
tomorrow when we

2079
01:14:46,720 --> 01:14:49,570
will be discussing
this as well.

2080
01:14:49,570 --> 01:14:51,819
We hope we do
hope to get to

2081
01:14:51,819 --> 01:14:54,324
the issues paper
issued papers today,

2082
01:14:54,324 --> 01:14:55,990
which would mean that
if someone is here

2083
01:14:55,990 --> 01:14:59,035
to respond in case we
have further questions.

2084
01:14:59,035 --> 01:15:00,039
Okay.

2085
01:15:00,039 --> 01:15:01,584
Well, we'll adjourn.

2086
01:15:01,584 --> 01:15:04,224
Recess the hearing until

2087
01:15:04,224 --> 01:15:07,910
we back as close as
we can to 01:00.

2088
01:15:08,340 --> 01:15:12,220
I'm region. We
can write in

2089
01:15:12,220 --> 01:15:19,519
the morning and
underneath.

2090
01:15:20,430 --> 01:15:23,959
Or Terry Curry.

2091
01:15:36,390 --> 01:15:37,900
Good afternoon.

2092
01:15:37,900 --> 01:15:39,039
My name is Perry.
Carry on with

2093
01:15:39,039 --> 01:15:40,839
blackness County
Planning Department.

2094
01:15:40,839 --> 01:15:42,369
I have four issues
I'd like to

2095
01:15:42,369 --> 01:15:44,095
discuss with you
this afternoon.

2096
01:15:44,095 --> 01:15:46,870
They all deal with
the forest rule.

2097
01:15:46,870 --> 01:15:50,500
The first one and

2098
01:15:50,500 --> 01:15:52,030
probably the most
important one

2099
01:15:52,030 --> 01:15:53,410
for Blackmun's
County right

2100
01:15:53,410 --> 01:15:56,049
now is the application

2101
01:15:56,049 --> 01:16:00,530
of the rezoning to the
egg bores designation.

2102
01:16:01,020 --> 01:16:07,690
And that's found
under 61606057.

2103
01:16:07,690 --> 01:16:10,164
And basically,

2104
01:16:10,164 --> 01:16:12,069
what it says is that
in order for us

2105
01:16:12,069 --> 01:16:17,180
to do to designate
an area eggs for us,

2106
01:16:17,340 --> 01:16:19,915
we have to demonstrate
that the air

2107
01:16:19,915 --> 01:16:22,419
the area know that

2108
01:16:22,419 --> 01:16:24,625
each parcel within
the area contains

2109
01:16:24,625 --> 01:16:27,220
a mixture of agricultural
and forest uses.

2110
01:16:27,220 --> 01:16:28,899
To an extent that
neither goal for

2111
01:16:28,899 --> 01:16:31,270
your poor apply alone.

2112
01:16:31,270 --> 01:16:33,489
That's the same
language that it was

2113
01:16:33,489 --> 01:16:36,010
adopted in the 1990s.

2114
01:16:36,010 --> 01:16:40,450
A role in the Commission's
consideration,

2115
01:16:40,450 --> 01:16:44,739
working up to the
December 1992 adoption,

2116
01:16:44,739 --> 01:16:47,335
receive testimony on how

2117
01:16:47,335 --> 01:16:49,780
difficult it would
be to find areas

2118
01:16:49,780 --> 01:16:52,479
that contain parcels where

2119
01:16:52,479 --> 01:16:54,130
every parcel
contains a mixture

2120
01:16:54,130 --> 01:16:56,214
of agricultural
and forest use.

2121
01:16:56,214 --> 01:16:58,404
And at that time,

2122
01:16:58,404 --> 01:17:02,125
the commission chose to
modify that language.

2123
01:17:02,125 --> 01:17:05,739
And the December
1992 language

2124
01:17:05,739 --> 01:17:07,660
required a demonstration
that each of

2125
01:17:07,660 --> 01:17:10,449
the areas that we
identify contains

2126
01:17:10,449 --> 01:17:14,590
a mixture of agricultural
and forest uses.

2127
01:17:14,590 --> 01:17:18,399
Now, I presented
this information

2128
01:17:18,399 --> 01:17:19,720
on December 1st at

2129
01:17:19,720 --> 01:17:21,490
Mount Hood Community
College and was

2130
01:17:21,490 --> 01:17:25,494
advised that it
was a misprint

2131
01:17:25,494 --> 01:17:30,189
and that that that
information was

2132
01:17:30,189 --> 01:17:32,245
primarily based
on the fact that

2133
01:17:32,245 --> 01:17:35,139
the language that
requires each parcel

2134
01:17:35,139 --> 01:17:37,239
under the current proposal

2135
01:17:37,239 --> 01:17:38,740
was not in bold and

2136
01:17:38,740 --> 01:17:40,149
it should have been
involved because it was

2137
01:17:40,149 --> 01:17:43,519
a modification from
the previous rule.

2138
01:17:43,920 --> 01:17:45,760
One of the first things I

2139
01:17:45,760 --> 01:17:46,660
looked at when I saw

2140
01:17:46,660 --> 01:17:48,969
the January 4 draft was

2141
01:17:48,969 --> 01:17:50,679
that language
and the language

2142
01:17:50,679 --> 01:17:51,819
is still the same.

2143
01:17:51,819 --> 01:17:53,965
It does require a
demonstration that

2144
01:17:53,965 --> 01:17:57,580
each parcel contains
a mixture clock.

2145
01:17:57,580 --> 01:17:57,760
Ms.

2146
01:17:57,760 --> 01:17:59,559
County would strongly
urge the Commission

2147
01:17:59,559 --> 01:18:01,510
to go back to

2148
01:18:01,510 --> 01:18:03,009
the language that
was contained in

2149
01:18:03,009 --> 01:18:05,665
the December 1992 rule,

2150
01:18:05,665 --> 01:18:08,110
required that the area

2151
01:18:08,110 --> 01:18:11,359
contains a mixture of
Ag and Boris juices.

2152
01:18:16,380 --> 01:18:20,110
Second point is I
just like to support

2153
01:18:20,110 --> 01:18:24,010
the department's
recommendation regarding

2154
01:18:24,010 --> 01:18:26,080
the health hardship
dwellings.

2155
01:18:26,080 --> 01:18:28,749
It appears to
us anyway that

2156
01:18:28,749 --> 01:18:31,255
most of the discussion
in the House bill

2157
01:18:31,255 --> 01:18:34,270
and the language
under section

2158
01:18:34,270 --> 01:18:38,799
49 is addressing
permanent dwellings,

2159
01:18:38,799 --> 01:18:41,499
and I don't see any
language in the bill

2160
01:18:41,499 --> 01:18:43,480
that precludes
consideration of

2161
01:18:43,480 --> 01:18:46,099
other temporary
types of uses.

2162
01:18:46,710 --> 01:18:48,970
Third issue has to do with

2163
01:18:48,970 --> 01:18:51,490
the rotating of
the template

2164
01:18:51,490 --> 01:18:53,439
to a fixed position.

2165
01:18:53,439 --> 01:18:56,290
As you're aware of, the
current language in

2166
01:18:56,290 --> 01:18:57,940
the proposal says parallel

2167
01:18:57,940 --> 01:18:59,994
and perpendicular to
the section lines.

2168
01:18:59,994 --> 01:19:02,889
And my comment on

2169
01:19:02,889 --> 01:19:04,149
that only is that if

2170
01:19:04,149 --> 01:19:05,440
you're using the template,

2171
01:19:05,440 --> 01:19:08,680
you're using it for
purposes of evaluating

2172
01:19:08,680 --> 01:19:10,240
whether or not there
are impacts and

2173
01:19:10,240 --> 01:19:12,204
an area on this
particular parcel.

2174
01:19:12,204 --> 01:19:15,460
And those impacts are
going to exist whether

2175
01:19:15,460 --> 01:19:17,469
the template is parallel

2176
01:19:17,469 --> 01:19:19,495
and perpendicular to
the section lines,

2177
01:19:19,495 --> 01:19:21,639
or whether it's turned
somewhat skewed

2178
01:19:21,639 --> 01:19:23,830
those lines but set
in a fixed position.

2179
01:19:23,830 --> 01:19:26,319
I'm not I'm not
advocating being able to

2180
01:19:26,319 --> 01:19:27,430
continually turn it to

2181
01:19:27,430 --> 01:19:29,050
continue to pick
up dwellings,

2182
01:19:29,050 --> 01:19:31,539
but to rotate it to

2183
01:19:31,539 --> 01:19:33,489
one position and do

2184
01:19:33,489 --> 01:19:35,410
your evaluation from that.

2185
01:19:35,410 --> 01:19:38,290
And again, if the impacts
are there, there,

2186
01:19:38,290 --> 01:19:41,769
there it doesn't
regardless

2187
01:19:41,769 --> 01:19:44,629
of the location
of the template.

2188
01:19:44,880 --> 01:19:47,410
Fourth issue has to

2189
01:19:47,410 --> 01:19:50,240
do with stockpiling
and crushing.

2190
01:19:50,670 --> 01:19:54,220
You've heard I'm
sure are aware

2191
01:19:54,220 --> 01:19:57,579
that the legislature
under House Bill 36 61

2192
01:19:57,579 --> 01:20:00,550
included stockpiling
and crushing in

2193
01:20:00,550 --> 01:20:03,820
condition conjunction
with the mining

2194
01:20:03,820 --> 01:20:06,174
of aggregate and
other minerals.

2195
01:20:06,174 --> 01:20:08,469
Through the statue.

2196
01:20:08,469 --> 01:20:11,815
What we would like
you to consider

2197
01:20:11,815 --> 01:20:14,710
is comparable language

2198
01:20:14,710 --> 01:20:16,930
included in the
forest rule,

2199
01:20:16,930 --> 01:20:22,239
and that would be under
Section 6600602 53e.

2200
01:20:22,239 --> 01:20:24,970
Right now, that
provides only for

2201
01:20:24,970 --> 01:20:26,379
the exploration for

2202
01:20:26,379 --> 01:20:28,315
mineral and
aggregate resources.

2203
01:20:28,315 --> 01:20:31,044
We would like to see
the comparable language

2204
01:20:31,044 --> 01:20:34,489
from the statute
added to the rule.

2205
01:20:34,590 --> 01:20:36,835
The effect of that is what

2206
01:20:36,835 --> 01:20:38,319
basically it would provide

2207
01:20:38,319 --> 01:20:39,970
for stockpiling
crushing within

2208
01:20:39,970 --> 01:20:42,109
the porous stones also.

2209
01:20:43,230 --> 01:20:49,599
And that's all
my questions.

2210
01:20:49,599 --> 01:20:54,199
Thank you very much.
Thank you. Jim enrolled.

2211
01:21:04,400 --> 01:21:06,839
For the record. I'm
Jim on your own.

2212
01:21:06,839 --> 01:21:10,110
I'm resonance is
32871 Sand Ridge Road

2213
01:21:10,110 --> 01:21:12,179
and Lebanon in Lin County.

2214
01:21:12,179 --> 01:21:13,710
And I'm speaking in

2215
01:21:13,710 --> 01:21:15,974
individual capacity today,

2216
01:21:15,974 --> 01:21:19,259
which permits me the
privilege of not

2217
01:21:19,259 --> 01:21:20,550
wearing a tie
and not wearing

2218
01:21:20,550 --> 01:21:22,874
a sports coat and
being comfortable.

2219
01:21:22,874 --> 01:21:25,980
And just one item
I want to address,

2220
01:21:25,980 --> 01:21:27,660
which came from
previous testimony

2221
01:21:27,660 --> 01:21:29,399
this morning
by Kelly Ross.

2222
01:21:29,399 --> 01:21:32,039
So the Association
of Realtors,

2223
01:21:32,039 --> 01:21:38,659
and it deals with
January 4 proposal by

2224
01:21:38,659 --> 01:21:40,630
Mr. Banner revising,

2225
01:21:40,630 --> 01:21:41,890
I want to talk
about forest lands,

2226
01:21:41,890 --> 01:21:44,544
pages 2 and 3,

2227
01:21:44,544 --> 01:21:45,924
and their proposal about

2228
01:21:45,924 --> 01:21:48,700
the building sightings.

2229
01:21:48,700 --> 01:21:51,519
I urge rejection
of the proposal.

2230
01:21:51,519 --> 01:21:53,079
I hate to disagree
with Mr. Bender,

2231
01:21:53,079 --> 01:21:54,625
but I urge rejection.

2232
01:21:54,625 --> 01:21:57,100
This reason forest land

2233
01:21:57,100 --> 01:21:59,830
in ag land zones or
industrial zones.

2234
01:21:59,830 --> 01:22:01,870
They, it is
Reagan's number

2235
01:22:01,870 --> 01:22:04,900
one and number
two, industries.

2236
01:22:04,900 --> 01:22:07,045
And the forest dwelling,

2237
01:22:07,045 --> 01:22:10,374
maybe a convenient for

2238
01:22:10,374 --> 01:22:13,420
small lot woodland
management,

2239
01:22:13,420 --> 01:22:14,859
but it's not necessary.

2240
01:22:14,859 --> 01:22:16,434
In my experience within

2241
01:22:16,434 --> 01:22:19,419
Lynn county. A
couple of examples.

2242
01:22:19,419 --> 01:22:21,205
We have two very prominent

2243
01:22:21,205 --> 01:22:23,500
non-industrial
forest owners,

2244
01:22:23,500 --> 01:22:25,240
Bert you Dale
and Bob Marley,

2245
01:22:25,240 --> 01:22:26,829
who both have
been elected as

2246
01:22:26,829 --> 01:22:28,450
the national Tree
Farm or the ear and

2247
01:22:28,450 --> 01:22:30,580
have numerous other
distinguished awards.

2248
01:22:30,580 --> 01:22:33,650
They have never lived
on their woodblock.

2249
01:22:35,160 --> 01:22:39,909
Treating forest
stocking to me.

2250
01:22:39,909 --> 01:22:42,414
I would use the
real estate term.

2251
01:22:42,414 --> 01:22:46,239
It's a form of earnest
money agreement.

2252
01:22:46,239 --> 01:22:48,969
It's a up-front commitment

2253
01:22:48,969 --> 01:22:50,215
that they will manage

2254
01:22:50,215 --> 01:22:54,279
that lat and the land
for forest production.

2255
01:22:54,279 --> 01:22:58,060
Now, Mother Nature
can do very well

2256
01:22:58,060 --> 01:23:01,794
at restricting
area or land if,

2257
01:23:01,794 --> 01:23:03,700
if the climate, so

2258
01:23:03,700 --> 01:23:04,945
conditions are
right for growing

2259
01:23:04,945 --> 01:23:06,309
trees when the trouble is,

2260
01:23:06,309 --> 01:23:08,380
it will take a two
to three centuries

2261
01:23:08,380 --> 01:23:10,074
for her to do
her slow way.

2262
01:23:10,074 --> 01:23:11,964
In the industrial world,

2263
01:23:11,964 --> 01:23:14,139
we people say that's
not fast enough.

2264
01:23:14,139 --> 01:23:16,090
We want the results

2265
01:23:16,090 --> 01:23:18,684
of that restocking
upfront.

2266
01:23:18,684 --> 01:23:20,409
Now it can be done with

2267
01:23:20,409 --> 01:23:22,689
intensive management

2268
01:23:22,689 --> 01:23:24,400
up to including
cottonwoods

2269
01:23:24,400 --> 01:23:26,500
hybrid gotten was
six-year crop or are they

2270
01:23:26,500 --> 01:23:27,759
exotic pine trees at

2271
01:23:27,759 --> 01:23:30,429
a 20-year crop or dug
for 60 to 80 crops.

2272
01:23:30,429 --> 01:23:32,320
I'm going to take a
little bit of management.

2273
01:23:32,320 --> 01:23:34,990
And that management
should come up front.

2274
01:23:34,990 --> 01:23:37,300
The earnest money
type of thing.

2275
01:23:37,300 --> 01:23:39,699
If the individual
who wants

2276
01:23:39,699 --> 01:23:41,020
the house in the woods

2277
01:23:41,020 --> 01:23:41,920
and it's sort of thing,

2278
01:23:41,920 --> 01:23:44,080
wants to do it for

2279
01:23:44,080 --> 01:23:45,550
watching the trees grow or

2280
01:23:45,550 --> 01:23:47,260
watching Mother
Nature do her thing.

2281
01:23:47,260 --> 01:23:49,749
I maintain that that

2282
01:23:49,749 --> 01:23:52,299
is not sufficient
grounds for the house.

2283
01:23:52,299 --> 01:23:53,830
The money which should

2284
01:23:53,830 --> 01:23:54,520
be there and it should be

2285
01:23:54,520 --> 01:23:55,539
demonstrated
upfront because

2286
01:23:55,539 --> 01:23:57,009
the first six years on

2287
01:23:57,009 --> 01:23:59,785
a reforestation are
the important times

2288
01:23:59,785 --> 01:24:01,750
when those trees
get established.

2289
01:24:01,750 --> 01:24:02,650
And if you just stick

2290
01:24:02,650 --> 01:24:03,370
them in the ground
and let them

2291
01:24:03,370 --> 01:24:05,635
go, it's not
going to work.

2292
01:24:05,635 --> 01:24:06,744
Alright?

2293
01:24:06,744 --> 01:24:08,680
Once the other
question brought up

2294
01:24:08,680 --> 01:24:10,690
by the real estate person,

2295
01:24:10,690 --> 01:24:15,684
what do you do with
the 20-year legacy

2296
01:24:15,684 --> 01:24:18,400
of a cut that
wasn't reforest.

2297
01:24:18,400 --> 01:24:20,230
Well, you'll
do two things.

2298
01:24:20,230 --> 01:24:21,700
We'll either let
mother nature take

2299
01:24:21,700 --> 01:24:24,489
its course or you come
in and improve it,

2300
01:24:24,489 --> 01:24:26,574
which takes that
upfront commitment.

2301
01:24:26,574 --> 01:24:28,269
So I think the
Department of Forestry

2302
01:24:28,269 --> 01:24:29,575
stand on having

2303
01:24:29,575 --> 01:24:31,630
a stand before the house

2304
01:24:31,630 --> 01:24:33,189
is the appropriate
way to go.

2305
01:24:33,189 --> 01:24:35,209
And that's all I
haven't saved.

2306
01:24:35,670 --> 01:24:38,569
Any questions, Did Jim?

2307
01:24:38,970 --> 01:24:43,579
Thank you very
much. Gary Harris.

2308
01:24:59,100 --> 01:25:02,259
Remember there's
commission on Gary Harris,

2309
01:25:02,259 --> 01:25:05,274
7,000 Northwest Daniel,
Madras, Oregon.

2310
01:25:05,274 --> 01:25:06,969
I currently reside and I'm

2311
01:25:06,969 --> 01:25:09,204
active farmer in
Jefferson County.

2312
01:25:09,204 --> 01:25:11,920
I serve on the Jefferson
County Board of

2313
01:25:11,920 --> 01:25:15,144
Review for determining
a farm use values.

2314
01:25:15,144 --> 01:25:17,139
I also had been
appointed by

2315
01:25:17,139 --> 01:25:18,759
the county court
to serve on

2316
01:25:18,759 --> 01:25:20,500
an egg advisory board for

2317
01:25:20,500 --> 01:25:23,899
the mapping of the
high-value Ag lands.

2318
01:25:24,390 --> 01:25:26,980
Jefferson County
was one of

2319
01:25:26,980 --> 01:25:28,719
the first counties
in the state to

2320
01:25:28,719 --> 01:25:32,440
adopt yet UAT in
our egg lands.

2321
01:25:32,440 --> 01:25:34,029
And we've been
very proactive

2322
01:25:34,029 --> 01:25:37,014
in protecting
our farmland.

2323
01:25:37,014 --> 01:25:39,339
Currently in
Jefferson County,

2324
01:25:39,339 --> 01:25:42,489
there are 150 plus lots

2325
01:25:42,489 --> 01:25:44,919
that are below
the ADH or test

2326
01:25:44,919 --> 01:25:47,140
and would be
sub-standard lots within

2327
01:25:47,140 --> 01:25:48,879
our new lands in

2328
01:25:48,879 --> 01:25:49,929
the North unit Irrigation

2329
01:25:49,929 --> 01:25:52,249
District of
Jefferson County.

2330
01:25:52,290 --> 01:25:54,969
I came today to talk about

2331
01:25:54,969 --> 01:25:57,009
both 3.8 and I had to I

2332
01:25:57,009 --> 01:25:59,920
presented some
written testimony and

2333
01:25:59,920 --> 01:26:01,540
I had to vary from that

2334
01:26:01,540 --> 01:26:02,830
because I'm supposed to

2335
01:26:02,830 --> 01:26:04,720
speak only the goal three.

2336
01:26:04,720 --> 01:26:06,160
I wanted to go through

2337
01:26:06,160 --> 01:26:07,179
some of the issues that

2338
01:26:07,179 --> 01:26:09,714
you have on your
January 4 letter.

2339
01:26:09,714 --> 01:26:13,869
And the first issue
was that should

2340
01:26:13,869 --> 01:26:15,550
non-farm dwellings
be cited

2341
01:26:15,550 --> 01:26:18,279
in high-value egg lands?

2342
01:26:18,279 --> 01:26:20,949
And it is my belief

2343
01:26:20,949 --> 01:26:22,359
as an individual
and it was

2344
01:26:22,359 --> 01:26:24,549
a predominant belief on

2345
01:26:24,549 --> 01:26:26,440
the egg advisory board
that there should be

2346
01:26:26,440 --> 01:26:29,900
no non-farm dwellings
in the zones.

2347
01:26:31,620 --> 01:26:34,345
For citing farm dwellings

2348
01:26:34,345 --> 01:26:36,890
in high-value leg lands.

2349
01:26:36,990 --> 01:26:42,129
It was felt that the
test should be even more

2350
01:26:42,129 --> 01:26:44,919
stringent and that
these dwellings

2351
01:26:44,919 --> 01:26:46,180
should be tied
to some sort

2352
01:26:46,180 --> 01:26:48,500
of commercial operation.

2353
01:26:49,950 --> 01:26:52,150
We didn't want We did not

2354
01:26:52,150 --> 01:26:53,874
want or wish to raise

2355
01:26:53,874 --> 01:26:55,689
our farmland
divisions above

2356
01:26:55,689 --> 01:26:57,684
80 acres because
we felt that

2357
01:26:57,684 --> 01:26:59,694
The 80 acre
parcel size was

2358
01:26:59,694 --> 01:27:02,679
convenient or
family farm members

2359
01:27:02,679 --> 01:27:04,090
to pass farm degeneration,

2360
01:27:04,090 --> 01:27:06,354
degeneration with
the ADA acre size.

2361
01:27:06,354 --> 01:27:08,200
But for establishing
dwellings

2362
01:27:08,200 --> 01:27:09,910
on those foreign lands,

2363
01:27:09,910 --> 01:27:11,919
we kinda wanted
a standard that

2364
01:27:11,919 --> 01:27:14,020
was larger than
the 80 acres.

2365
01:27:14,020 --> 01:27:15,670
We felt that
there should be

2366
01:27:15,670 --> 01:27:17,800
a commercial operation
tied to each farm

2367
01:27:17,800 --> 01:27:21,640
dwelling within our
high-value farmlands.

2368
01:27:21,640 --> 01:27:23,859
And for for testimony

2369
01:27:23,859 --> 01:27:26,394
for your technical
resource commitment.

2370
01:27:26,394 --> 01:27:28,420
It was felt that there

2371
01:27:28,420 --> 01:27:30,235
needs to be a
test developed,

2372
01:27:30,235 --> 01:27:32,650
whether it's two out of
three years or three

2373
01:27:32,650 --> 01:27:34,509
out of five years,

2374
01:27:34,509 --> 01:27:37,989
that this individual
who's going to establish

2375
01:27:37,989 --> 01:27:41,009
this dwelling must be

2376
01:27:41,009 --> 01:27:43,004
able to produce an income

2377
01:27:43,004 --> 01:27:45,914
equal to the county
border reviews

2378
01:27:45,914 --> 01:27:49,710
income for that
particular area

2379
01:27:49,710 --> 01:27:52,499
times at least the
minimum lot size,

2380
01:27:52,499 --> 01:27:56,339
80 acres in when I

2381
01:27:56,339 --> 01:27:57,720
sit on the board
review and we set

2382
01:27:57,720 --> 01:28:00,660
foreigners values for
taxation purposes,

2383
01:28:00,660 --> 01:28:03,809
the typical
figures $450-500

2384
01:28:03,809 --> 01:28:05,250
an acre per year.

2385
01:28:05,250 --> 01:28:07,020
And if you use for 50

2386
01:28:07,020 --> 01:28:09,300
times the minimum lot
size of 80 acres,

2387
01:28:09,300 --> 01:28:10,320
this individual would have

2388
01:28:10,320 --> 01:28:11,219
to at least generate

2389
01:28:11,219 --> 01:28:12,719
$36,000 to be able

2390
01:28:12,719 --> 01:28:14,624
to establish
that residents.

2391
01:28:14,624 --> 01:28:16,920
There could be some
automatic tests

2392
01:28:16,920 --> 01:28:17,969
if the guy who already has

2393
01:28:17,969 --> 01:28:20,430
a farm property without
dwellings on it that

2394
01:28:20,430 --> 01:28:23,104
is as large as the
average in the area,

2395
01:28:23,104 --> 01:28:26,544
he should be granted
a home automatic.

2396
01:28:26,544 --> 01:28:29,049
If say he is already

2397
01:28:29,049 --> 01:28:32,095
twice the minimum lot
size, he has 160,

2398
01:28:32,095 --> 01:28:33,760
you perhaps
could be granted

2399
01:28:33,760 --> 01:28:36,205
the dwelling automatic,

2400
01:28:36,205 --> 01:28:37,989
but he has to
prove that he

2401
01:28:37,989 --> 01:28:39,564
is a commercial farmer.

2402
01:28:39,564 --> 01:28:42,189
We've got a instances
in our county that

2403
01:28:42,189 --> 01:28:43,420
are lands within

2404
01:28:43,420 --> 01:28:45,910
an irrigation district
capable of irrigation,

2405
01:28:45,910 --> 01:28:47,109
but, uh, yet are currently

2406
01:28:47,109 --> 01:28:50,679
dry land and have
government CRP on them.

2407
01:28:50,679 --> 01:28:52,719
They're earning
$50 an acre.

2408
01:28:52,719 --> 01:28:55,644
We're in essence 50
times the 80 acres.

2409
01:28:55,644 --> 01:28:57,309
And so the gross
income for

2410
01:28:57,309 --> 01:29:00,085
those parcels is $4,000.

2411
01:29:00,085 --> 01:29:02,319
This dryland
farmer as being

2412
01:29:02,319 --> 01:29:04,705
subdivided into
80 acre lots.

2413
01:29:04,705 --> 01:29:07,179
And we're having
non-farm residence is

2414
01:29:07,179 --> 01:29:08,410
build on those because

2415
01:29:08,410 --> 01:29:09,429
those guys are farmers.

2416
01:29:09,429 --> 01:29:10,930
They've got a
CRP ground and

2417
01:29:10,930 --> 01:29:12,774
it's there for ten
years or whatever.

2418
01:29:12,774 --> 01:29:14,619
And it's not to say
that what happens when

2419
01:29:14,619 --> 01:29:17,005
the government
contracts ceases

2420
01:29:17,005 --> 01:29:18,100
and this land has two,

2421
01:29:18,100 --> 01:29:18,850
all of a sudden has to

2422
01:29:18,850 --> 01:29:21,250
be put back into
production.

2423
01:29:21,250 --> 01:29:23,470
But we don't
feel that $4,000

2424
01:29:23,470 --> 01:29:25,939
makes a guy a
commercial farmer.

2425
01:29:26,160 --> 01:29:28,659
The whether or

2426
01:29:28,659 --> 01:29:31,629
not high-value land
should be mapped.

2427
01:29:31,629 --> 01:29:33,459
I think the answer
is obvious.

2428
01:29:33,459 --> 01:29:35,304
If you don't, it
just allows for

2429
01:29:35,304 --> 01:29:37,599
continued indecision
down the road

2430
01:29:37,599 --> 01:29:39,640
and it allows for
the golden rule.

2431
01:29:39,640 --> 01:29:41,050
Those with a
goal and we'll

2432
01:29:41,050 --> 01:29:43,510
rule on one of

2433
01:29:43,510 --> 01:29:46,060
your minor issues
on irrigated lands.

2434
01:29:46,060 --> 01:29:48,900
On page four, you've

2435
01:29:48,900 --> 01:29:53,474
described irrigated
as meaning

2436
01:29:53,474 --> 01:29:55,485
the bottom of
the line there,

2437
01:29:55,485 --> 01:29:57,479
an irrigation or
water district with

2438
01:29:57,479 --> 01:29:58,980
established
water rights for

2439
01:29:58,980 --> 01:30:00,780
such irrigation
and irrigation,

2440
01:30:00,780 --> 01:30:02,834
water is reasonably
available

2441
01:30:02,834 --> 01:30:05,159
to the subject land.

2442
01:30:05,159 --> 01:30:08,640
The word reasonably adds

2443
01:30:08,640 --> 01:30:10,290
a whole can of worms.

2444
01:30:10,290 --> 01:30:13,079
On our, on our
advisory board,

2445
01:30:13,079 --> 01:30:14,490
we set

2446
01:30:14,490 --> 01:30:15,510
the North unit irrigation

2447
01:30:15,510 --> 01:30:17,325
district boundaries
as prime,

2448
01:30:17,325 --> 01:30:19,184
as capable of
being irrigated.

2449
01:30:19,184 --> 01:30:21,434
And there are
lands within that.

2450
01:30:21,434 --> 01:30:23,864
Water can be Swift
ID and move to.

2451
01:30:23,864 --> 01:30:25,500
And so we have to fight

2452
01:30:25,500 --> 01:30:27,790
over what's reasonable.

2453
01:30:29,220 --> 01:30:32,259
So I think that
if you're in

2454
01:30:32,259 --> 01:30:33,280
an irrigation
district and your

2455
01:30:33,280 --> 01:30:34,509
lands capable
of irrigation,

2456
01:30:34,509 --> 01:30:35,890
its highest price prime,

2457
01:30:35,890 --> 01:30:39,169
it's unique, it can
produce a $1,000 an acre.

2458
01:30:42,000 --> 01:30:44,379
I suppose that concludes

2459
01:30:44,379 --> 01:30:46,005
the portion I have
on goal three,

2460
01:30:46,005 --> 01:30:48,880
and I'll consume the rest

2461
01:30:48,880 --> 01:30:51,745
of my remarks on the
goal in a later topic.

2462
01:30:51,745 --> 01:30:53,230
We're going to be
open the hearing on

2463
01:30:53,230 --> 01:30:55,000
that very shortly
and I'll see

2464
01:30:55,000 --> 01:30:56,525
that you get on
first because you

2465
01:30:56,525 --> 01:30:57,760
have an indicator that

2466
01:30:57,760 --> 01:30:59,844
you have to be
away from here.

2467
01:30:59,844 --> 01:31:04,945
Any question from
Gary Harris?

2468
01:31:04,945 --> 01:31:07,734
If not, thank
you very much.

2469
01:31:07,734 --> 01:31:12,800
I have During Campbell
as he come in yet,

2470
01:31:12,870 --> 01:31:15,265
He's from the
speaker's office

2471
01:31:15,265 --> 01:31:17,575
and apparently,

2472
01:31:17,575 --> 01:31:20,440
I don't know who
signed the man arrow.

2473
01:31:20,440 --> 01:31:23,209
Can you tell me
what he sign-in?

2474
01:31:25,350 --> 01:31:27,429
Some question
whether we should

2475
01:31:27,429 --> 01:31:28,719
hold it open for him or

2476
01:31:28,719 --> 01:31:30,040
whether we should simply

2477
01:31:30,040 --> 01:31:32,359
continue on to go away.

2478
01:31:33,480 --> 01:31:36,460
Is there a telephone
and we call?

2479
01:31:36,460 --> 01:31:37,719
This doesn't say here.

2480
01:31:37,719 --> 01:31:41,499
It will be here at
02:00 P.M. Why don't we

2481
01:31:41,499 --> 01:31:46,074
simply continue with
the next hearing?

2482
01:31:46,074 --> 01:31:48,010
I assume that we can
go back and rehear

2483
01:31:48,010 --> 01:31:50,349
him and he comes up
for you. So desire.

2484
01:31:50,349 --> 01:31:53,030
I think you can reopen it.

2485
01:31:53,160 --> 01:31:54,504
Okay.

2486
01:31:54,504 --> 01:31:55,990
Well, I'll make that
a time certain,

2487
01:31:55,990 --> 01:31:57,430
but other than that,

2488
01:31:57,430 --> 01:31:59,559
the hearing on both 3.4 is

2489
01:31:59,559 --> 01:32:02,755
closed and we go
on to goal eight.

2490
01:32:02,755 --> 01:32:05,779
And they need to hear
from the staff version.

2491
01:32:11,310 --> 01:32:14,395
Go late materials.

2492
01:32:14,395 --> 01:32:17,749
Our under Tab number four.

2493
01:32:21,240 --> 01:32:26,529
Again, by way of background,
for most of you,

2494
01:32:26,529 --> 01:32:28,629
this is a repeat of
what was said at

2495
01:32:28,629 --> 01:32:30,489
the first full commission

2496
01:32:30,489 --> 01:32:31,989
hearing ahead on this.

2497
01:32:31,989 --> 01:32:35,470
There were changes made to

2498
01:32:35,470 --> 01:32:38,110
the destination
resorts statute during

2499
01:32:38,110 --> 01:32:41,274
the 990s three
legislative session.

2500
01:32:41,274 --> 01:32:43,674
Those changes

2501
01:32:43,674 --> 01:32:46,779
result in inconsistency
is between

2502
01:32:46,779 --> 01:32:48,580
what's in go eight on

2503
01:32:48,580 --> 01:32:50,679
destination
resorts and what

2504
01:32:50,679 --> 01:32:52,060
is in the statute.

2505
01:32:52,060 --> 01:32:53,410
There's a history going

2506
01:32:53,410 --> 01:32:55,329
back some sessions where

2507
01:32:55,329 --> 01:32:57,880
the legislature
I got involved

2508
01:32:57,880 --> 01:33:00,760
in legislating on
destination resorts.

2509
01:33:00,760 --> 01:33:01,900
And since that time,

2510
01:33:01,900 --> 01:33:03,070
the commission
has tried to

2511
01:33:03,070 --> 01:33:05,469
keep to reduce
confusion and

2512
01:33:05,469 --> 01:33:07,569
whatnot has tried
to keep Goal

2513
01:33:07,569 --> 01:33:09,234
eight in the statutes

2514
01:33:09,234 --> 01:33:10,419
in line with one another.

2515
01:33:10,419 --> 01:33:13,900
So the changes that

2516
01:33:13,900 --> 01:33:16,555
are being recommended
here by enlarge

2517
01:33:16,555 --> 01:33:19,149
stemmed from changes
to the statute on

2518
01:33:19,149 --> 01:33:20,830
destination resorts
that came out of

2519
01:33:20,830 --> 01:33:23,710
the 1993 legislative
session.

2520
01:33:23,710 --> 01:33:27,159
You know, from looking
through the materials

2521
01:33:27,159 --> 01:33:29,020
that the changes are not

2522
01:33:29,020 --> 01:33:31,465
extensive there or not?

2523
01:33:31,465 --> 01:33:33,070
Yes, They are significant,

2524
01:33:33,070 --> 01:33:36,219
but they're not expensive
and complicated.

2525
01:33:36,219 --> 01:33:38,529
We did we got a little
bit of testimony

2526
01:33:38,529 --> 01:33:40,794
on this at the
first hearing,

2527
01:33:40,794 --> 01:33:41,980
and I believe a couple

2528
01:33:41,980 --> 01:33:43,255
of people have signed up.

2529
01:33:43,255 --> 01:33:45,370
There's an issues
paper for you on

2530
01:33:45,370 --> 01:33:48,070
this that has
just a handful of

2531
01:33:48,070 --> 01:33:50,680
issues which we will get

2532
01:33:50,680 --> 01:33:53,890
to with you after
the public hearing.

2533
01:33:53,890 --> 01:33:56,680
So the changes in

2534
01:33:56,680 --> 01:33:59,529
the proposed amendments
to go late in

2535
01:33:59,529 --> 01:34:01,570
the issues paper have
been distributed to

2536
01:34:01,570 --> 01:34:03,325
all those people
who commented

2537
01:34:03,325 --> 01:34:05,530
orally or in writing.

2538
01:34:05,530 --> 01:34:07,179
And they're available for

2539
01:34:07,179 --> 01:34:08,230
anybody who
didn't get one.

2540
01:34:08,230 --> 01:34:10,045
They're available
here on the table.

2541
01:34:10,045 --> 01:34:13,239
With that, Mr.
Chairman, I say that.

2542
01:34:13,239 --> 01:34:14,874
Okay.

2543
01:34:14,874 --> 01:34:18,019
Gary Harris, you're
you're back on deck.

2544
01:34:25,850 --> 01:34:28,080
I wanted to say
one thing about

2545
01:34:28,080 --> 01:34:29,609
my farm use-value tests

2546
01:34:29,609 --> 01:34:31,949
that I forgot to mention
on the other side,

2547
01:34:31,949 --> 01:34:34,890
the reason that that's
a beautiful formula.

2548
01:34:34,890 --> 01:34:37,049
Is it a specific
Beach County and it

2549
01:34:37,049 --> 01:34:41,110
doesn't it doesn't ask
for a 20,000, 40,000,

2550
01:34:41,110 --> 01:34:42,209
$80,000 figure

2551
01:34:42,209 --> 01:34:43,889
that's applied through
the whole state

2552
01:34:43,889 --> 01:34:45,990
and egg lands capable

2553
01:34:45,990 --> 01:34:46,919
of that and that county,

2554
01:34:46,919 --> 01:34:48,524
then it meets that test.

2555
01:34:48,524 --> 01:34:50,730
The big question in
Jefferson County

2556
01:34:50,730 --> 01:34:51,869
on goal aid is we have

2557
01:34:51,869 --> 01:34:54,060
a county court and

2558
01:34:54,060 --> 01:34:55,319
accounting
planner who wants

2559
01:34:55,319 --> 01:34:57,030
to protect the egg glands.

2560
01:34:57,030 --> 01:34:58,680
Yet they also want to cite

2561
01:34:58,680 --> 01:35:00,404
destination resorts.

2562
01:35:00,404 --> 01:35:02,390
And the question that

2563
01:35:02,390 --> 01:35:04,944
you guys have
to answer is,

2564
01:35:04,944 --> 01:35:06,459
are the high-value crop

2565
01:35:06,459 --> 01:35:07,660
lands and gold III the

2566
01:35:07,660 --> 01:35:10,450
same as the high-value
crop land area.

2567
01:35:10,450 --> 01:35:12,940
In goal eight. I sit

2568
01:35:12,940 --> 01:35:14,949
on a committee
that drew a map.

2569
01:35:14,949 --> 01:35:16,629
Everybody says, Yeah, we

2570
01:35:16,629 --> 01:35:17,799
want to have that area for

2571
01:35:17,799 --> 01:35:19,180
protecting the intrusion

2572
01:35:19,180 --> 01:35:21,025
of non-pharm residences.

2573
01:35:21,025 --> 01:35:24,609
But we want to, we want to

2574
01:35:24,609 --> 01:35:27,309
compromise this
by calling it

2575
01:35:27,309 --> 01:35:28,630
just important lands not

2576
01:35:28,630 --> 01:35:31,045
high-value when it
comes to goal eight,

2577
01:35:31,045 --> 01:35:32,799
or come up with

2578
01:35:32,799 --> 01:35:36,129
some some way to

2579
01:35:36,129 --> 01:35:38,440
to skirt the state statute

2580
01:35:38,440 --> 01:35:40,884
that says we need a
three mile buffer.

2581
01:35:40,884 --> 01:35:43,150
Jefferson County is

2582
01:35:43,150 --> 01:35:44,995
a third Indian
Reservation,

2583
01:35:44,995 --> 01:35:48,415
the third BLM
and forest land.

2584
01:35:48,415 --> 01:35:50,425
And we have a corridor

2585
01:35:50,425 --> 01:35:51,580
through the middle
of the county of

2586
01:35:51,580 --> 01:35:55,554
about 120 mi north unit
Irrigation District.

2587
01:35:55,554 --> 01:35:57,549
And we consider that prime

2588
01:35:57,549 --> 01:35:58,780
and high-value Ag lands.

2589
01:35:58,780 --> 01:36:00,100
But I myself personally on

2590
01:36:00,100 --> 01:36:03,279
574 acres and five out
of the last six years,

2591
01:36:03,279 --> 01:36:04,719
we've averaged over $1,000

2592
01:36:04,719 --> 01:36:07,270
an acre girls on
every acre farm.

2593
01:36:07,270 --> 01:36:10,509
And we have
crops as garlic,

2594
01:36:10,509 --> 01:36:12,204
onion seed, carrot seed,

2595
01:36:12,204 --> 01:36:14,739
peppermint, bluegrass,
all of which on

2596
01:36:14,739 --> 01:36:16,120
a given year can
average over a

2597
01:36:16,120 --> 01:36:18,009
$1,000 an acre grows.

2598
01:36:18,009 --> 01:36:19,810
And with our
crop rotations,

2599
01:36:19,810 --> 01:36:22,719
any ground in that
Irrigation District in

2600
01:36:22,719 --> 01:36:24,640
any given year
can be capable of

2601
01:36:24,640 --> 01:36:27,084
having that crop on
that particular site.

2602
01:36:27,084 --> 01:36:29,529
Granted, we also have
crops like fallow,

2603
01:36:29,529 --> 01:36:30,970
summer, fall off wheat,

2604
01:36:30,970 --> 01:36:33,070
government pay
program ground

2605
01:36:33,070 --> 01:36:35,394
which can't make
a $1,000 an acre.

2606
01:36:35,394 --> 01:36:37,989
And therefore the
county court,

2607
01:36:37,989 --> 01:36:39,700
the county planners,
the pressure

2608
01:36:39,700 --> 01:36:41,770
from the economic
edge to committee,

2609
01:36:41,770 --> 01:36:44,289
the pressure from the
Chamber of Commerce,

2610
01:36:44,289 --> 01:36:45,940
the businessman and
the realtors all

2611
01:36:45,940 --> 01:36:48,055
say that your
area does not

2612
01:36:48,055 --> 01:36:49,780
average of $1,000 an acre

2613
01:36:49,780 --> 01:36:52,299
because of the
$30,236 million.

2614
01:36:52,299 --> 01:36:54,070
If you divide it
by the 60,000

2615
01:36:54,070 --> 01:36:55,314
acres of farm ground,

2616
01:36:55,314 --> 01:36:57,970
we don't come up with
a $1,000 an acre.

2617
01:36:57,970 --> 01:37:02,649
So we ask Director manner

2618
01:37:02,649 --> 01:37:04,374
to send the judge
a Hearn a letter.

2619
01:37:04,374 --> 01:37:07,839
The letter was
dated December 22,

2620
01:37:07,839 --> 01:37:10,015
and it's in the comp

2621
01:37:10,015 --> 01:37:11,470
that you pass on my
copy of my staff.

2622
01:37:11,470 --> 01:37:13,990
It's in the back
in the letter.

2623
01:37:13,990 --> 01:37:16,669
Have your stuff
I handed out.

2624
01:37:16,830 --> 01:37:19,135
We can agriculture it.

2625
01:37:19,135 --> 01:37:20,649
Just interpret
this letters

2626
01:37:20,649 --> 01:37:21,880
to be quite specific.

2627
01:37:21,880 --> 01:37:23,499
We have land that is

2628
01:37:23,499 --> 01:37:25,419
capable of
high-value farming.

2629
01:37:25,419 --> 01:37:27,369
It is primase unique.

2630
01:37:27,369 --> 01:37:30,400
The county court, from

2631
01:37:30,400 --> 01:37:31,539
the pressure of
the developer

2632
01:37:31,539 --> 01:37:32,875
fields that well,

2633
01:37:32,875 --> 01:37:36,864
these because it
says that high.

2634
01:37:36,864 --> 01:37:38,499
However, it

2635
01:37:38,499 --> 01:37:39,864
would include lands
that are highly,

2636
01:37:39,864 --> 01:37:41,319
highly productive
but either had

2637
01:37:41,319 --> 01:37:42,670
a bad year are rotated

2638
01:37:42,670 --> 01:37:43,990
in and out of production.

2639
01:37:43,990 --> 01:37:45,370
So they're saying
that we have

2640
01:37:45,370 --> 01:37:47,034
to consider the average.

2641
01:37:47,034 --> 01:37:49,854
And I think you need
to make the rules.

2642
01:37:49,854 --> 01:37:53,019
Clear to those
those bodies

2643
01:37:53,019 --> 01:37:56,005
that high-value Ag lands

2644
01:37:56,005 --> 01:37:58,000
are worth protecting.

2645
01:37:58,000 --> 01:38:00,430
We in Jefferson
County do not want to

2646
01:38:00,430 --> 01:38:02,770
become shoes County North.

2647
01:38:02,770 --> 01:38:05,514
And we need your help.

2648
01:38:05,514 --> 01:38:07,780
You realize what you
were talking to.

2649
01:38:07,780 --> 01:38:09,475
And we need, you know,

2650
01:38:09,475 --> 01:38:10,779
if there's 5,000 people

2651
01:38:10,779 --> 01:38:12,354
a month moving
into Oregon,

2652
01:38:12,354 --> 01:38:13,780
is it too much to protect

2653
01:38:13,780 --> 01:38:15,339
such a small egg cord

2654
01:38:15,339 --> 01:38:17,779
or in the vast
Eastern Oregon.

2655
01:38:17,970 --> 01:38:21,530
The three mile rule?

2656
01:38:22,500 --> 01:38:25,809
We have. When's
the last time

2657
01:38:25,809 --> 01:38:26,830
you got within 3 mi

2658
01:38:26,830 --> 01:38:27,835
all money and
can smell it.

2659
01:38:27,835 --> 01:38:29,859
When's the last time
you got within 3 mi

2660
01:38:29,859 --> 01:38:35,895
of Ontario's onion
processing or sin plots,

2661
01:38:35,895 --> 01:38:37,994
sugar beet, pulp feedlot.

2662
01:38:37,994 --> 01:38:39,420
Or when's the last time

2663
01:38:39,420 --> 01:38:40,469
you've been
stung by a bee?

2664
01:38:40,469 --> 01:38:42,119
I put out 150 acre hives.

2665
01:38:42,119 --> 01:38:44,069
Abby's a year on my
vegetable crops.

2666
01:38:44,069 --> 01:38:45,480
If I had a
destination resort

2667
01:38:45,480 --> 01:38:46,680
within 3 mi and I got

2668
01:38:46,680 --> 01:38:48,780
an African Eyes Hybrid
be that high that

2669
01:38:48,780 --> 01:38:51,494
flew over there and
stuck them all, be sued.

2670
01:38:51,494 --> 01:38:53,670
Or I didn't have
any net worth lift.

2671
01:38:53,670 --> 01:38:55,485
We need protected.

2672
01:38:55,485 --> 01:38:57,420
So that I'm just
rambling now,

2673
01:38:57,420 --> 01:38:59,249
thanks for, thanks
for your concerns.

2674
01:38:59,249 --> 01:39:01,455
But my main emphasis
is we need to

2675
01:39:01,455 --> 01:39:03,420
get Richards letter plane

2676
01:39:03,420 --> 01:39:05,250
to these, to these bodies.

2677
01:39:05,250 --> 01:39:08,775
And really defined that
high-value crop area.

2678
01:39:08,775 --> 01:39:10,470
Is it truly high

2679
01:39:10,470 --> 01:39:11,729
value for gold
three and not four,

2680
01:39:11,729 --> 01:39:14,260
goal aid, or is it
the same lands?

2681
01:39:15,170 --> 01:39:19,110
We think it's the
same. At least

2682
01:39:19,110 --> 01:39:19,889
that those of us on

2683
01:39:19,889 --> 01:39:21,929
the egg advisory board do.

2684
01:39:21,929 --> 01:39:23,700
Well. Thank you very much.

2685
01:39:23,700 --> 01:39:24,749
It's one farmer
to another.

2686
01:39:24,749 --> 01:39:26,309
I have to I have
to applaud,

2687
01:39:26,309 --> 01:39:27,239
but I have some others on

2688
01:39:27,239 --> 01:39:29,174
the commission
that may not.

2689
01:39:29,174 --> 01:39:32,369
Are there any
questions or comments?

2690
01:39:32,369 --> 01:39:35,439
If not, we're going
to blur Batson.

2691
01:39:48,620 --> 01:39:51,389
Good afternoon.
Where Batson

2692
01:39:51,389 --> 01:39:53,145
for 1,000 tons of Oregon.

2693
01:39:53,145 --> 01:39:54,539
1,000 friends of Oregon

2694
01:39:54,539 --> 01:39:56,340
supports the
recommendations of

2695
01:39:56,340 --> 01:39:58,420
the department
regarding revisions

2696
01:39:58,420 --> 01:40:00,145
to go late Nikolay rule.

2697
01:40:00,145 --> 01:40:03,054
There are two issues
we'd like to address.

2698
01:40:03,054 --> 01:40:04,720
First is the suggestion by

2699
01:40:04,720 --> 01:40:07,180
the Oregon Association
of Realtors

2700
01:40:07,180 --> 01:40:08,694
and or guardians
and actions,

2701
01:40:08,694 --> 01:40:11,215
the county's be
required to implement.

2702
01:40:11,215 --> 01:40:13,509
This requirement
would be contrary to

2703
01:40:13,509 --> 01:40:15,519
our s1 and 7.4 15,

2704
01:40:15,519 --> 01:40:16,870
which is not

2705
01:40:16,870 --> 01:40:19,239
mandatory language
that would have

2706
01:40:19,239 --> 01:40:21,175
mandated implementation
was included

2707
01:40:21,175 --> 01:40:23,839
in Hawaii is initial
draft of House Bill 29.

2708
01:40:23,839 --> 01:40:26,650
32 is introduced by
representative carnival,

2709
01:40:26,650 --> 01:40:28,059
is saying which
did not survive

2710
01:40:28,059 --> 01:40:29,679
amendment by the House
subcommittee that was

2711
01:40:29,679 --> 01:40:31,690
responsible for the
general form of

2712
01:40:31,690 --> 01:40:32,410
the resorts setting

2713
01:40:32,410 --> 01:40:34,134
legislation
ultimately enacted.

2714
01:40:34,134 --> 01:40:35,500
Instead, permissive
language

2715
01:40:35,500 --> 01:40:36,820
of the statute remains.

2716
01:40:36,820 --> 01:40:38,260
It would not be
appropriate for

2717
01:40:38,260 --> 01:40:40,149
the Commission to adopt
this requirement.

2718
01:40:40,149 --> 01:40:42,070
It was rejected by
the legislature.

2719
01:40:42,070 --> 01:40:45,369
The LCD is quite correct
in its response to

2720
01:40:45,369 --> 01:40:46,930
the association of

2721
01:40:46,930 --> 01:40:48,954
Oregon Trail tours
and LAA comments.

2722
01:40:48,954 --> 01:40:50,349
The second issue concerns

2723
01:40:50,349 --> 01:40:51,669
Douglas County's comment

2724
01:40:51,669 --> 01:40:53,349
that revisions of
the counties map

2725
01:40:53,349 --> 01:40:54,369
of lands for resorts,

2726
01:40:54,369 --> 01:40:56,544
sightings should be
allowed at anytime,

2727
01:40:56,544 --> 01:40:58,299
as the department
correctly

2728
01:40:58,299 --> 01:40:59,709
notes and it's comments,

2729
01:40:59,709 --> 01:41:01,614
that suggestion is
inconsistent with

2730
01:41:01,614 --> 01:41:04,749
ORS 197.455 sub two,

2731
01:41:04,749 --> 01:41:06,324
which permits
those revisions

2732
01:41:06,324 --> 01:41:08,379
only in connection
with periodic review.

2733
01:41:08,379 --> 01:41:10,240
Summarize, thousand
friend supports

2734
01:41:10,240 --> 01:41:11,830
PLCs proposal for
the amendment

2735
01:41:11,830 --> 01:41:13,615
of goal and the
goal a rule.

2736
01:41:13,615 --> 01:41:15,310
We believe that DLT
is proposal and

2737
01:41:15,310 --> 01:41:16,899
its responses to
comments as set

2738
01:41:16,899 --> 01:41:18,805
forth in the directors

2739
01:41:18,805 --> 01:41:20,200
January 4th memorandum are

2740
01:41:20,200 --> 01:41:22,149
consistent with
resource settings.

2741
01:41:22,149 --> 01:41:23,620
Thank you.

2742
01:41:23,620 --> 01:41:25,404
Where I would
like to have you

2743
01:41:25,404 --> 01:41:27,159
comment on the Jefferson
County problem.

2744
01:41:27,159 --> 01:41:30,699
Where are the high
value doesn't

2745
01:41:30,699 --> 01:41:32,439
necessarily apply it
all the way to the door

2746
01:41:32,439 --> 01:41:34,599
apply to as far as this
nation and reserves,

2747
01:41:34,599 --> 01:41:36,460
resorts, or
conserve forest,

2748
01:41:36,460 --> 01:41:38,094
you're feeling
that it does?

2749
01:41:38,094 --> 01:41:39,880
Well.

2750
01:41:39,880 --> 01:41:42,729
Two things. One is
that definition

2751
01:41:42,729 --> 01:41:43,930
of high-value crop land.

2752
01:41:43,930 --> 01:41:44,679
My understanding of

2753
01:41:44,679 --> 01:41:45,790
Jefferson County's problem

2754
01:41:45,790 --> 01:41:47,979
right now from talking
with farmers there,

2755
01:41:47,979 --> 01:41:49,930
is that the county
is simply ignoring

2756
01:41:49,930 --> 01:41:52,809
what the statute
and the rule says.

2757
01:41:52,809 --> 01:41:54,789
And I think what they're
asking you is to

2758
01:41:54,789 --> 01:41:56,500
put some
clarification about

2759
01:41:56,500 --> 01:41:57,804
that in terms of

2760
01:41:57,804 --> 01:42:00,850
the big problem now as
if you have an area,

2761
01:42:00,850 --> 01:42:03,474
a large ag area,
100,000 acres,

2762
01:42:03,474 --> 01:42:05,590
and there's portions
actually don't

2763
01:42:05,590 --> 01:42:07,930
produce $1,000 an acre.

2764
01:42:07,930 --> 01:42:09,790
You carve out those
portions and so you can

2765
01:42:09,790 --> 01:42:11,994
have destination
resorts on them?

2766
01:42:11,994 --> 01:42:14,560
Or do you look at
the area as a whole?

2767
01:42:14,560 --> 01:42:16,360
And I think it's
pretty clear and it's

2768
01:42:16,360 --> 01:42:17,680
consistent with
state policy

2769
01:42:17,680 --> 01:42:18,580
to preserve add glands,

2770
01:42:18,580 --> 01:42:20,770
enlarge blocks that
you designate areas.

2771
01:42:20,770 --> 01:42:22,329
That's what the
goal in the statute

2772
01:42:22,329 --> 01:42:23,680
says, is
concentrated areas.

2773
01:42:23,680 --> 01:42:25,419
So you don't have
little spots

2774
01:42:25,419 --> 01:42:26,919
of non high-value,

2775
01:42:26,919 --> 01:42:28,659
even though you may
have little spots that

2776
01:42:28,659 --> 01:42:29,860
actually don't have

2777
01:42:29,860 --> 01:42:31,899
the productive capability.

2778
01:42:31,899 --> 01:42:33,865
That that's my understanding
of the problem.

2779
01:42:33,865 --> 01:42:35,980
The other problem
is the county court

2780
01:42:35,980 --> 01:42:37,690
is pretty much
just ignoring

2781
01:42:37,690 --> 01:42:39,849
the requirement
and it's in

2782
01:42:39,849 --> 01:42:41,229
the goal and
in the statute

2783
01:42:41,229 --> 01:42:43,014
and your proposed rule,

2784
01:42:43,014 --> 01:42:45,399
that not only do you

2785
01:42:45,399 --> 01:42:48,925
protect lands that are
themselves high value,

2786
01:42:48,925 --> 01:42:50,424
but the three mile buffer.

2787
01:42:50,424 --> 01:42:53,800
And that's just plain
ignoring what the way

2788
01:42:53,800 --> 01:42:55,360
in which says mutism
as complicated

2789
01:42:55,360 --> 01:42:57,010
as the problem that
the sheets County had,

2790
01:42:57,010 --> 01:42:58,209
which is what do
we also protect

2791
01:42:58,209 --> 01:42:59,724
lands outside
of our county?

2792
01:42:59,724 --> 01:43:01,540
It's just we protect
any of them.

2793
01:43:01,540 --> 01:43:05,994
So that's the
way I see it.

2794
01:43:05,994 --> 01:43:08,035
I don't think
that the goal

2795
01:43:08,035 --> 01:43:08,890
eight definition of

2796
01:43:08,890 --> 01:43:10,179
high-value crop
land is the

2797
01:43:10,179 --> 01:43:11,769
same as the definition of

2798
01:43:11,769 --> 01:43:13,570
high-value
farmland that's in

2799
01:43:13,570 --> 01:43:14,799
the statute or any

2800
01:43:14,799 --> 01:43:15,849
that you've ever
considered.

2801
01:43:15,849 --> 01:43:16,930
And I think you all
have been quite

2802
01:43:16,930 --> 01:43:18,759
clear that it's a
different policy,

2803
01:43:18,759 --> 01:43:19,779
a different type of

2804
01:43:19,779 --> 01:43:21,715
land that you're
looking at.

2805
01:43:21,715 --> 01:43:23,335
But I think that

2806
01:43:23,335 --> 01:43:24,819
apparently that
isn't completely

2807
01:43:24,819 --> 01:43:27,370
clear to the farmers
in Jefferson County,

2808
01:43:27,370 --> 01:43:29,200
but it may just take
some explanation.

2809
01:43:29,200 --> 01:43:30,985
I'm not sure it's
a rule issue.

2810
01:43:30,985 --> 01:43:31,840
I would hate to see

2811
01:43:31,840 --> 01:43:33,639
you make your
definition of

2812
01:43:33,639 --> 01:43:36,534
high-value
farmland as narrow

2813
01:43:36,534 --> 01:43:38,964
as the definition of
high-value crop land.

2814
01:43:38,964 --> 01:43:40,359
Of course, I'd like
to see you expand

2815
01:43:40,359 --> 01:43:41,679
your definition of

2816
01:43:41,679 --> 01:43:43,090
high-value farmland

2817
01:43:43,090 --> 01:43:45,504
in Central and
Eastern Oregon

2818
01:43:45,504 --> 01:43:47,604
to protect all
these lands.

2819
01:43:47,604 --> 01:43:50,424
Mr. Chair, I'd like
to follow up on that.

2820
01:43:50,424 --> 01:43:52,209
Given that discussion,

2821
01:43:52,209 --> 01:43:53,785
there's been this
debate about

2822
01:43:53,785 --> 01:43:57,199
what the value definition

2823
01:43:59,460 --> 01:44:06,010
Jefferson County Court
or restrictive view.

2824
01:44:06,010 --> 01:44:09,879
And thinner,
lighter and then

2825
01:44:09,879 --> 01:44:16,230
also debate as well are
read some comments.

2826
01:44:16,230 --> 01:44:19,045
Use specific newspaper.

2827
01:44:19,045 --> 01:44:20,515
I was wondering
if you want

2828
01:44:20,515 --> 01:44:21,969
to take this
opportunity to

2829
01:44:21,969 --> 01:44:26,169
just say what
your patient is.

2830
01:44:26,169 --> 01:44:32,019
The language of
the statute now

2831
01:44:32,019 --> 01:44:42,619
is strengthened.

2832
01:44:42,690 --> 01:44:46,510
Well, it's
interesting to me,

2833
01:44:46,510 --> 01:44:47,889
it's just what
the language says

2834
01:44:47,889 --> 01:44:49,479
and it's not
really ambiguous.

2835
01:44:49,479 --> 01:44:51,550
It says concentrated
areas of

2836
01:44:51,550 --> 01:44:54,835
land that are capable
of producing $1,000.

2837
01:44:54,835 --> 01:44:56,409
It doesn't require
that the land

2838
01:44:56,409 --> 01:44:59,245
actually does
produce a $1,000,

2839
01:44:59,245 --> 01:45:01,119
and it definitely
doesn't require that it

2840
01:45:01,119 --> 01:45:04,075
produced thousand dollars
an acre every year.

2841
01:45:04,075 --> 01:45:05,854
That became the issue
in Jefferson County.

2842
01:45:05,854 --> 01:45:08,110
Landlords fallow for
a year and it's not

2843
01:45:08,110 --> 01:45:10,945
producing $11,000
an acre that year,

2844
01:45:10,945 --> 01:45:13,044
then it's no longer
high-value crop land.

2845
01:45:13,044 --> 01:45:14,635
And our view,
it's certainly is

2846
01:45:14,635 --> 01:45:15,670
a high-value
crop land if it

2847
01:45:15,670 --> 01:45:16,899
has the capability.

2848
01:45:16,899 --> 01:45:18,910
So that was the issue in

2849
01:45:18,910 --> 01:45:21,160
the paper and issue
that was pretty

2850
01:45:21,160 --> 01:45:23,800
complicated and that
director thinners letter

2851
01:45:23,800 --> 01:45:25,810
went to was that
particular issue.

2852
01:45:25,810 --> 01:45:28,399
So thank you for
the opportunity.

2853
01:45:29,870 --> 01:45:31,649
Thank you very much.

2854
01:45:31,649 --> 01:45:33,359
Thank you, Leslie.

2855
01:45:33,359 --> 01:45:34,719
Oh, yeah.

2856
01:45:41,900 --> 01:45:43,949
Well, I don't
think there's a

2857
01:45:43,949 --> 01:45:46,020
whole lot that I can

2858
01:45:46,020 --> 01:45:47,655
really add to what's
already been said

2859
01:45:47,655 --> 01:45:49,605
because I concur
with most of it.

2860
01:45:49,605 --> 01:45:54,660
And I think Gary pretty
well covered what

2861
01:45:54,660 --> 01:45:57,270
our issues are in
Jefferson County and

2862
01:45:57,270 --> 01:46:00,059
it has been really
frustrating.

2863
01:46:00,059 --> 01:46:03,854
I have to admit
somebody as far as

2864
01:46:03,854 --> 01:46:05,999
defining some of

2865
01:46:05,999 --> 01:46:10,200
the terms concentration
of farms, capable.

2866
01:46:10,200 --> 01:46:13,820
I guess, myself,

2867
01:46:14,010 --> 01:46:17,649
I'm concerned that capable

2868
01:46:17,649 --> 01:46:19,870
not be turned
into average.

2869
01:46:19,870 --> 01:46:21,849
And that if we
are producing

2870
01:46:21,849 --> 01:46:23,755
high-value because
we crop rotate,

2871
01:46:23,755 --> 01:46:25,029
and that's a very common

2872
01:46:25,029 --> 01:46:26,574
practice in our area.

2873
01:46:26,574 --> 01:46:28,480
Like I guess I'm,
I want to make

2874
01:46:28,480 --> 01:46:30,489
sure that just because we

2875
01:46:30,489 --> 01:46:33,354
aren't growing that
particular crop that is

2876
01:46:33,354 --> 01:46:34,959
capable of grossing over

2877
01:46:34,959 --> 01:46:37,105
$1,000 an acre that time,

2878
01:46:37,105 --> 01:46:38,470
that this land not

2879
01:46:38,470 --> 01:46:42,939
be acknowledged as
being high value.

2880
01:46:42,939 --> 01:46:45,429
And another
question I have,

2881
01:46:45,429 --> 01:46:48,249
and the concentration
of farms.

2882
01:46:48,249 --> 01:46:51,639
I guess I do have
some concern.

2883
01:46:51,639 --> 01:46:52,750
What happens if you have

2884
01:46:52,750 --> 01:46:54,624
an isolated area where

2885
01:46:54,624 --> 01:46:56,109
maybe there's one farm,

2886
01:46:56,109 --> 01:46:59,694
that one farm
constitutes. More.

2887
01:46:59,694 --> 01:47:01,509
He's farming
more than say,

2888
01:47:01,509 --> 01:47:04,990
someone who has only
farming or you have

2889
01:47:04,990 --> 01:47:06,969
several people in an
area that they're

2890
01:47:06,969 --> 01:47:10,000
only farm farming
like 150 acres.

2891
01:47:10,000 --> 01:47:12,219
And so I guess
that that to

2892
01:47:12,219 --> 01:47:15,070
me is of concern
because I want is,

2893
01:47:15,070 --> 01:47:16,990
I want to make sure
that even though

2894
01:47:16,990 --> 01:47:19,600
this one farmer
may be isolated,

2895
01:47:19,600 --> 01:47:21,400
if he's farming a
certain amount of

2896
01:47:21,400 --> 01:47:23,875
property and it's in it is

2897
01:47:23,875 --> 01:47:26,889
economically
valuable than I

2898
01:47:26,889 --> 01:47:28,509
think he should
be protected too.

2899
01:47:28,509 --> 01:47:30,925
I don't I don't like
that language about

2900
01:47:30,925 --> 01:47:33,879
isolated cases wouldn't
be considered.

2901
01:47:33,879 --> 01:47:36,084
I think that that
is important.

2902
01:47:36,084 --> 01:47:38,754
We recognize the isolation
isn't necessarily

2903
01:47:38,754 --> 01:47:42,499
should not be an exemption
from protection.

2904
01:47:43,440 --> 01:47:47,620
And I guess my
fear is that by

2905
01:47:47,620 --> 01:47:51,039
leaving this to open,

2906
01:47:51,039 --> 01:47:53,409
if this the case does
end up in court,

2907
01:47:53,409 --> 01:47:57,339
I don't want it
to end up at

2908
01:47:57,339 --> 01:47:59,079
totally at the
discretion of

2909
01:47:59,079 --> 01:48:02,049
the county it to
define there.

2910
01:48:02,049 --> 01:48:03,849
They're going to
call capable and

2911
01:48:03,849 --> 01:48:05,934
what they're going
to call high-value.

2912
01:48:05,934 --> 01:48:08,694
And that that does
concern me, too.

2913
01:48:08,694 --> 01:48:10,700
Thank you.

2914
01:48:10,920 --> 01:48:13,699
Thank you very much.

2915
01:48:17,910 --> 01:48:21,020
All by yourself this time.

2916
01:48:27,390 --> 01:48:30,159
Mr. Vice Chair and members
of the Commission.

2917
01:48:30,159 --> 01:48:31,239
My name is towards
Slack and I'm

2918
01:48:31,239 --> 01:48:32,260
the land use
specialists for

2919
01:48:32,260 --> 01:48:33,864
the Association of
Oregon counties.

2920
01:48:33,864 --> 01:48:36,039
And I wanted to make
just one brief comment

2921
01:48:36,039 --> 01:48:37,330
in support of

2922
01:48:37,330 --> 01:48:41,604
the draft on gold
aid as you have it,

2923
01:48:41,604 --> 01:48:45,594
it provides that the
implementation of

2924
01:48:45,594 --> 01:48:47,170
the mapping requirement is

2925
01:48:47,170 --> 01:48:48,129
that the discretion of

2926
01:48:48,129 --> 01:48:50,754
the counties that
choose to implement it.

2927
01:48:50,754 --> 01:48:53,515
We believe that's the
correct interpretation.

2928
01:48:53,515 --> 01:48:56,769
And we support
that that mapping

2929
01:48:56,769 --> 01:48:57,909
is only required if

2930
01:48:57,909 --> 01:49:00,444
a county ops to implement.

2931
01:49:00,444 --> 01:49:01,960
The gold eight
through the dip

2932
01:49:01,960 --> 01:49:04,160
for destination resorts.

2933
01:49:04,560 --> 01:49:06,205
That's all I have.

2934
01:49:06,205 --> 01:49:07,404
Thank you very much.

2935
01:49:07,404 --> 01:49:08,844
Thank you.

2936
01:49:08,844 --> 01:49:13,224
Virtual harper? Sure.

2937
01:49:13,224 --> 01:49:14,780
Yeah.

2938
01:49:17,310 --> 01:49:20,500
Virgil Harper
from terrible.

2939
01:49:20,500 --> 01:49:22,510
I'm probably just
going to run over

2940
01:49:22,510 --> 01:49:23,620
the same ground because

2941
01:49:23,620 --> 01:49:25,989
I've been in the
same battle in

2942
01:49:25,989 --> 01:49:28,689
Jefferson County and snafu

2943
01:49:28,689 --> 01:49:31,375
is the $1,000 per
acre requirement.

2944
01:49:31,375 --> 01:49:34,209
The other snafu Is the
three mile buffer.

2945
01:49:34,209 --> 01:49:35,830
I think everyone
Jefferson County

2946
01:49:35,830 --> 01:49:37,570
realizes that land

2947
01:49:37,570 --> 01:49:39,010
inside the North unit

2948
01:49:39,010 --> 01:49:42,579
Irrigation District is
high-value crop land.

2949
01:49:42,579 --> 01:49:45,174
What the county
and a lot of

2950
01:49:45,174 --> 01:49:47,170
people there, they
will accept that.

2951
01:49:47,170 --> 01:49:48,190
But what the people in

2952
01:49:48,190 --> 01:49:49,210
the counting
developers and

2953
01:49:49,210 --> 01:49:53,140
such deplored the
three mile rule.

2954
01:49:53,140 --> 01:49:56,334
So therefore, they're
looking for a way.

2955
01:49:56,334 --> 01:49:58,599
It may sound like they're
more restrictive.

2956
01:49:58,599 --> 01:49:59,920
But my viewpoint by

2957
01:49:59,920 --> 01:50:01,404
giving it what
they consider

2958
01:50:01,404 --> 01:50:04,750
a valuable land
designation,

2959
01:50:04,750 --> 01:50:06,610
but without giving you the

2960
01:50:06,610 --> 01:50:09,085
high-value crop
land designation,

2961
01:50:09,085 --> 01:50:11,800
then the three mile
rule doesn't apply.

2962
01:50:11,800 --> 01:50:13,585
And therefore it
can be challenging,

2963
01:50:13,585 --> 01:50:16,540
I think, on that regard,

2964
01:50:16,540 --> 01:50:19,810
our viewpoint is
that if it is truly

2965
01:50:19,810 --> 01:50:21,579
high-value crop land in

2966
01:50:21,579 --> 01:50:23,229
a high-value crop area,

2967
01:50:23,229 --> 01:50:25,659
they have to acknowledge
it is so and map

2968
01:50:25,659 --> 01:50:28,915
it as being that
undergo eight.

2969
01:50:28,915 --> 01:50:31,615
Now then my interpretation

2970
01:50:31,615 --> 01:50:34,119
of what a high-value
crop area is,

2971
01:50:34,119 --> 01:50:36,339
is high-value crop lands

2972
01:50:36,339 --> 01:50:38,260
capable of
producing $1,000

2973
01:50:38,260 --> 01:50:39,894
per acre per year.

2974
01:50:39,894 --> 01:50:42,039
But that also includes

2975
01:50:42,039 --> 01:50:44,230
marginal lands
that will not

2976
01:50:44,230 --> 01:50:46,209
produce a $1,000
per acre per

2977
01:50:46,209 --> 01:50:49,250
year because it's in
a contiguous area.

2978
01:50:49,430 --> 01:50:51,629
Or it will include

2979
01:50:51,629 --> 01:50:53,460
lands that set
fallow or through

2980
01:50:53,460 --> 01:50:55,409
crop rotation will not

2981
01:50:55,409 --> 01:50:56,699
produce a $1,000 per

2982
01:50:56,699 --> 01:50:58,649
acre per year
in that year.

2983
01:50:58,649 --> 01:51:00,720
The following
year it well,

2984
01:51:00,720 --> 01:51:01,740
you might let the rest

2985
01:51:01,740 --> 01:51:03,615
of Europe inset fallow.

2986
01:51:03,615 --> 01:51:06,179
But the county, I believe,

2987
01:51:06,179 --> 01:51:07,995
or their
interpretation is,

2988
01:51:07,995 --> 01:51:11,919
if you take the total
acreage of that area,

2989
01:51:11,990 --> 01:51:14,639
all-inclusive, the
ones that didn't

2990
01:51:14,639 --> 01:51:16,694
produce your
marginal lands.

2991
01:51:16,694 --> 01:51:17,850
That's how they want to

2992
01:51:17,850 --> 01:51:19,785
determine that
it produces.

2993
01:51:19,785 --> 01:51:23,324
The whole area produces
a $1,000 per acre.

2994
01:51:23,324 --> 01:51:25,890
So I'm going to
average those

2995
01:51:25,890 --> 01:51:29,085
off what you're talking
about capable of,

2996
01:51:29,085 --> 01:51:31,319
or potential of doing.

2997
01:51:31,319 --> 01:51:33,465
By doing a whole area,

2998
01:51:33,465 --> 01:51:36,795
average inclusive
of marginal lands

2999
01:51:36,795 --> 01:51:39,884
and lands that set
fallow through rotation.

3000
01:51:39,884 --> 01:51:42,059
So I think that's
where the big hang-up

3001
01:51:42,059 --> 01:51:44,400
because they look
at the soil or

3002
01:51:44,400 --> 01:51:46,079
the extension
service figures

3003
01:51:46,079 --> 01:51:47,279
for the whole
county and they

3004
01:51:47,279 --> 01:51:49,439
say we don't say

3005
01:51:49,439 --> 01:51:51,119
anywhere that the areas

3006
01:51:51,119 --> 01:51:52,470
making a 1,000 per acre.

3007
01:51:52,470 --> 01:51:54,689
So there overlooking
the potential and

3008
01:51:54,689 --> 01:51:56,910
the capability
factor that I think

3009
01:51:56,910 --> 01:51:59,309
is clear to the
rule to some of us,

3010
01:51:59,309 --> 01:52:01,980
but not for those who
want to be able to

3011
01:52:01,980 --> 01:52:03,434
cite right against these

3012
01:52:03,434 --> 01:52:05,159
high-value crop lands.

3013
01:52:05,159 --> 01:52:06,749
And I think this
all stems from

3014
01:52:06,749 --> 01:52:08,624
the three mile
buffer zone.

3015
01:52:08,624 --> 01:52:10,589
And therefore, they
are trying to ignore

3016
01:52:10,589 --> 01:52:14,029
the high-value crop
land designation.

3017
01:52:14,029 --> 01:52:17,575
So the rule I think
has to be made clear.

3018
01:52:17,575 --> 01:52:18,700
I mean, I think I

3019
01:52:18,700 --> 01:52:21,339
understood Mr.
banners letter,

3020
01:52:21,339 --> 01:52:23,245
but I can also understand

3021
01:52:23,245 --> 01:52:24,460
I think it's
paragraph three of

3022
01:52:24,460 --> 01:52:27,009
that letter where you
say sometimes takes

3023
01:52:27,009 --> 01:52:28,989
in or some marginal lands

3024
01:52:28,989 --> 01:52:30,639
may not produce and
it's inclusive.

3025
01:52:30,639 --> 01:52:31,810
And I think they're
considering

3026
01:52:31,810 --> 01:52:33,144
that as the average.

3027
01:52:33,144 --> 01:52:37,000
And I think that's
the confusing part

3028
01:52:37,000 --> 01:52:38,920
to the people who

3029
01:52:38,920 --> 01:52:41,089
are trying to
interpret the rule.

3030
01:52:46,020 --> 01:52:48,895
Any questions or comments?

3031
01:52:48,895 --> 01:52:51,745
If not. Thank you.

3032
01:52:51,745 --> 01:52:53,509
Thank you very much.

3033
01:52:54,240 --> 01:52:56,860
We've reached o'clock and

3034
01:52:56,860 --> 01:52:57,699
we had this one that

3035
01:52:57,699 --> 01:52:59,050
we said we were
going to take

3036
01:52:59,050 --> 01:53:00,639
up it to Daren Campbell.

3037
01:53:00,639 --> 01:53:04,870
Has he come in? If not,

3038
01:53:04,870 --> 01:53:06,400
I guess we close
the hearing

3039
01:53:06,400 --> 01:53:08,109
and I assume that
we could call him

3040
01:53:08,109 --> 01:53:11,499
in if we want to know
what time it comes.

3041
01:53:11,499 --> 01:53:12,939
But in any case, we were

3042
01:53:12,939 --> 01:53:15,505
closing the hearing
on Goal eight.

3043
01:53:15,505 --> 01:53:17,650
We bring the matters
to the table.

3044
01:53:17,650 --> 01:53:18,579
Now, it's my understanding

3045
01:53:18,579 --> 01:53:19,689
we take up the goal eight

3046
01:53:19,689 --> 01:53:21,760
first and then
get back to that.

3047
01:53:21,760 --> 01:53:22,839
What we had to mind.

3048
01:53:22,839 --> 01:53:25,075
We could you can

3049
01:53:25,075 --> 01:53:27,835
you can do this in any
order that you want.

3050
01:53:27,835 --> 01:53:30,070
When I recommended
this morning

3051
01:53:30,070 --> 01:53:31,524
that you take up
the whole eight.

3052
01:53:31,524 --> 01:53:33,639
First, I had
forgotten that

3053
01:53:33,639 --> 01:53:36,369
Bob portraitists
is sitting in

3054
01:53:36,369 --> 01:53:37,645
for me at

3055
01:53:37,645 --> 01:53:40,569
a another man or

3056
01:53:40,569 --> 01:53:43,554
the woman Valley
Transportation strategies.

3057
01:53:43,554 --> 01:53:45,580
So he's he's not gonna

3058
01:53:45,580 --> 01:53:48,234
be here probably
for awhile.

3059
01:53:48,234 --> 01:53:50,800
Maybe we ought
to just dig into

3060
01:53:50,800 --> 01:53:53,110
either four or three and

3061
01:53:53,110 --> 01:53:55,390
then wait for him
to come and then

3062
01:53:55,390 --> 01:53:58,090
we could do we could
do the late tomorrow.

3063
01:53:58,090 --> 01:53:59,365
Alright.

3064
01:53:59,365 --> 01:54:03,309
Well, let's move
back to gold 3.4.

3065
01:54:03,309 --> 01:54:04,750
And I think the suggestion

3066
01:54:04,750 --> 01:54:05,875
has been and probably

3067
01:54:05,875 --> 01:54:07,090
correctly so that we take

3068
01:54:07,090 --> 01:54:08,770
up the course
besides foot,

3069
01:54:08,770 --> 01:54:11,649
which is reversal of
what we before we,

3070
01:54:11,649 --> 01:54:16,090
before we take up
either three or four,

3071
01:54:16,090 --> 01:54:20,664
could we have
some discussion

3072
01:54:20,664 --> 01:54:22,900
and maybe develop
an assumption

3073
01:54:22,900 --> 01:54:24,519
on how we're going
to operate here.

3074
01:54:24,519 --> 01:54:26,019
Are we going to
try to adopt

3075
01:54:26,019 --> 01:54:27,940
everything tomorrow
with the exception of

3076
01:54:27,940 --> 01:54:29,754
the arm dwelling criteria

3077
01:54:29,754 --> 01:54:31,884
or are we going
to put it all off

3078
01:54:31,884 --> 01:54:33,399
and deal with it in

3079
01:54:33,399 --> 01:54:35,379
February or are we
going to try to

3080
01:54:35,379 --> 01:54:37,569
close out the issues

3081
01:54:37,569 --> 01:54:39,370
that there is consensus
that we close

3082
01:54:39,370 --> 01:54:41,589
out and then
maintain a list of

3083
01:54:41,589 --> 01:54:44,110
issues including the
farm dwelling criteria,

3084
01:54:44,110 --> 01:54:45,730
but could include
other issues as

3085
01:54:45,730 --> 01:54:47,889
well that we're
going to keep this

3086
01:54:47,889 --> 01:54:52,225
live issues before
us into February.

3087
01:54:52,225 --> 01:54:55,554
Could we get an operating
assumption first?

3088
01:54:55,554 --> 01:54:58,330
Go round the
commissioners here

3089
01:54:58,330 --> 01:54:59,410
and see what's your what's

3090
01:54:59,410 --> 01:55:01,030
your pleasure on this?

3091
01:55:01,030 --> 01:55:02,934
I'll start off by saying,

3092
01:55:02,934 --> 01:55:04,360
I think that we
ought to close

3093
01:55:04,360 --> 01:55:05,529
as many as we can,

3094
01:55:05,529 --> 01:55:07,720
but rather I suspect
that as we discussed,

3095
01:55:07,720 --> 01:55:09,475
this will come
up with the view

3096
01:55:09,475 --> 01:55:12,110
that we think we
haven't gotten.