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So welcome to

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the System Science Friday

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noon seminar series.

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And today we have one of

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our graduates from
many years ago,

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Ruth Miller, to talk
about cultural systems.

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And I'm excited
to know more.

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So please give a better,

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fuller introduction
to yourself

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than I would've
been able to give.

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And then start.

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Okay. Well, thank you.

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When I graduated
officially in 84,

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it took me seven years

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to get through
the program.

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I had a break in there of

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a couple of years.

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And so I came into

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the program out of

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the cybernetic
systems program

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at San Jose State.

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So I had a masters
and systems

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coming into this
program and how

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valid recruited me
from the work I was

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doing with Willis
Harman and Mark Lee

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and Elgin and
those guys at

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the Center for Social

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Policy at Stanford
Research Institute,

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which is now SRI
International.

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So when Linda Stone
recruited me,

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he was assuming that

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I was interested in

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quantitative models,
but I wasn't.

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So we had an interesting

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child playing with that.

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I'm willing to, and
by that time I'd

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already played with

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the Limits to
Growth Model,

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which before it
was on Stella's.

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So we were doing
it in Fortran

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and dynamo and had

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been programming and doing

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all that kind of stuff

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for five years at

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that point, just
five-years.

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But my interest was in
people and cultures.

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And so a lot of

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my work continued
in that area.

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The first paper that
I had published

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was for a center

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for future studies
out of Minnesota.

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And it was hierarchical
restructuring

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in cultural systems.

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And that was in 79.

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And then as
things went on,

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I ended up becoming
a board member

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for the society for
General Systems Research,

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which can't help them

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transition to the
Institute for Systems,

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International Institute
for Systems sciences.

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And I worked
with Bella ban,

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eth0 and urban Laszlo

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and those guys to
make that happen.

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I happened to be at the
meeting in New York,

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in the top of the
World Trade Center.

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And we were
having dinner in

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that restaurant at the top

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of the World Trade Center

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with the whole S JSR

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during the time where

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we're making
that transition.

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And I could feel
it was funny.

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I was, I was being

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encouraged to
intuitively check

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things out and I had

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a sensation of a plane

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flying into the building.

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And so when I saw that,

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it was very hard to

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actually see that
sensation become real.

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But that's another
side trip.

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Back to the systems work.

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I continued to work
as a futurist.

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I worked with how on

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his projects and when
we had something we

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called the Northwest
Energy Policy Project.

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Do you remember that?

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For a few years and then

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I went off on my own
after I graduated,

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I went back to
the program.

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I had my master's in what

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became director
of that program.

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Then I had a health crisis

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and kinda had to

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pull out of academia
for a few years.

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Then it came
back into Oregon

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and I worked with a
community college and

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developing a
variety of programs

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and then came
back and taught

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as an adjunct at
Portland State,

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Merrill Hurst, and

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Antioch University
Seattle.

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And I helped
create their whole

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system's design
program up in India.

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So those are some of
the things that I,

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I've been involved
in over the years

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while I was when I
moved back to Portland,

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I got involved in
community development

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as well and helped to

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do the transformation of

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the abandoned and
derelict tones

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throughout North and
North East Portland.

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So we had a small company,

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it's small non-profit.

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We did 13 homes,

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but we've facilitated

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the formation
of five other

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non-profits that
overall did 500 homes,

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transforming them from
abandoned, derelict,

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generally rentals
into things

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that people could buy.

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And we created
the Portland

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Housing Center
in the process.

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A little bit of
some of the work.

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Thank you, sir.

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That was that's I'm
very proud of that.

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And then Corvallis
called me down and I

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started doing the same
thing in Corvallis.

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And then Grants Pass

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called me and I
started working with

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the economic
development teams

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and the county
commissioners

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in Chesterfield County.

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I've moved around a lot.

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I've had more addresses
and birthdays.

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And the work has generally
been around people

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seeing that things were

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not going in a
direction that they

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felt was appropriate
and trying to

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figure out how to make
them go that way.

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And during the seventies,

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that would have
been called

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normative futuring.

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I'll talk about that.

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As we go forward.

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Now, a lot of what I
do is teach people,

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whether it's as a
consultant or as

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a teacher named bite

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me to come in and
do workshops,

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or they invite me to do

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a series of talks
or whatever.

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So I'm going to share
my screen now and

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share with you some
of the things.

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I wish they
wouldn't do that.

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Some of the
things that I do.

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So I'll have this slide
up again at the end.

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And you can do whatever
you want with that.

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But can you all
see the screen?

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Yes.

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I love it when this
technology works, yes.

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Yes, I do.

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All kinds of models.

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My second public paper was

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actually the models

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and their
appropriate roles.

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And this was a description

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of the kinds of
models we use.

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And each one has

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a different role
in the process.

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You can't use a
dynamic model,

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a quantitative model,

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quantitative
dynamic model.

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If people don't have any

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idea what you're
talking about,

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you got to have both.

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And often illustrative
models are useful.

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Photographs,

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diagrams, drawings,
those kinds of things.

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A structural model.

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Weymouth talking
about putting

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together a causal
loop diagram.

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And that's often the kinds

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of things we're doing

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with the structural model.

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And then the analogic
model is actually

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a fundamental thing in

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system science
because that's

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what we started from.

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We add a biologist and we

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add a mathematician
who are saying, Wow,

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we look over
here and we see

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these dynamics and
they are replicable.

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Over here.

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We see the same
dynamics in

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these two very different
kinds of systems.

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So these are the kinds
of models that I use.

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I use all of them when I'm

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helping people
understand culture.

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The verbal model is

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the Ultra is a lot
more than the arts.

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And a lot of people
have to wake

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up to that anymore.

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We also have to wake
up to a culture is a

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lot more than
what is going

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on in an organization.

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Edgar Schein wrote

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a wonderful book on
organizational culture.

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And since he got
that book out,

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I've seen a general
tendency, a trend,

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if you will, online,

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to think that culture only

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refers to what's going
on in an organization.

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But we're not
talking about that.

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When I had coming into

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all of this was a
degree in anthropology.

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And an anthropology
culture is

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really the ocean in
which we are growing up.

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It is the total set

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of the beliefs and
the values and

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the assumptions that we

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have about our
place in the world,

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about what the world is
and our place in it.

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And it's also all

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of the social
structures and

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all the methods and all
the material objects

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that we create,

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rebuild, we destroy
and maintain as

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a result of those values,

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beliefs, and assumptions.

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And the language is

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what holds it
all together.

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So a verbal model
is what we are

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fundamentally working with

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whenever we are thinking.

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Culture.

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Actually whenever we're
thinking anymore.

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So what traditional set

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of elements that people

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use when they're
in forecasting

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to talk about culture,

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I'll see if I
can get rid of

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this stuff across
the bottom.

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Can you see the
whole diagram

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or is there stuff
on the screen?

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You can see the
whole thing.

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Okay, good. So
the steep five.

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Now, when I
started futuring,

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yes, Wait, there
was a question.

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Who was the author?

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Who wrote the book about

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organizational culture

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and shine SCHREIBER-PAN.

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Thank you. Thank you.

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So steep STEEEP.

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So society,

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technology,
environment, economics,

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and politics was
normal initially,

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I introduced values and
now I'm seeing that

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it's happening
more and more that

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people are
including values.

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This is beautiful.

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So we can't talk about

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culture without
talking about

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those fundamental beliefs,

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assumptions,
and values that

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are integrating all
the other things.

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This diagram is
inaccurate because

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obviously politics
and economy

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should be overlapping
and they aren't.

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But it's more or
less indicative.

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We're talking about

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activities and structures.

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00:10:00,979 --> 00:10:03,170
Whenever we're
talking about any,

274
00:10:03,170 --> 00:10:04,744
any kind of culture.

275
00:10:04,744 --> 00:10:06,889
And it has to be studied

276
00:10:06,889 --> 00:10:09,334
in the context of
the environment,

277
00:10:09,334 --> 00:10:10,759
which is the

278
00:10:10,759 --> 00:10:12,665
physical and natural
environment.

279
00:10:12,665 --> 00:10:13,850
And anymore, it's

280
00:10:13,850 --> 00:10:16,129
the cultural environment
in which it's sent.

281
00:10:16,129 --> 00:10:19,969
So e.g. yes, Marty.

282
00:10:19,969 --> 00:10:26,000
Oh, I think the
Talcott Parsons had

283
00:10:26,000 --> 00:10:28,129
a tetrad that gives

284
00:10:28,129 --> 00:10:31,399
you culture as at the top.

285
00:10:31,399 --> 00:10:34,820
And I think is a better
tetrad them this one.

286
00:10:34,820 --> 00:10:36,604
Well, thank you, sir.

287
00:10:36,604 --> 00:10:38,839
I think you might
want to use

288
00:10:38,839 --> 00:10:41,075
it because I
think you could.

289
00:10:41,075 --> 00:10:43,950
You couldn't merge, well,

290
00:10:43,950 --> 00:10:47,510
technology with economy
to some extent.

291
00:10:47,510 --> 00:10:49,519
Well, maybe
not, but still,

292
00:10:49,519 --> 00:10:53,090
if you want to stay
with four terms.

293
00:10:53,090 --> 00:10:56,720
I think the partisans
tetrad is quite

294
00:10:56,720 --> 00:11:00,814
nice and I used to use it.

295
00:11:00,814 --> 00:11:04,565
But I found that I was not

296
00:11:04,565 --> 00:11:07,580
getting quite the overlaps

297
00:11:07,580 --> 00:11:09,830
that I needed in
order to do it.

298
00:11:09,830 --> 00:11:12,334
And part of it
is the Parsons.

299
00:11:12,334 --> 00:11:15,395
Much as I love
his work, I do.

300
00:11:15,395 --> 00:11:17,974
Him and Alistair Taylor

301
00:11:17,974 --> 00:11:19,909
Both did some
marvelous things.

302
00:11:19,909 --> 00:11:21,770
And Spencer too, actually,

303
00:11:21,770 --> 00:11:23,930
they were operating on

304
00:11:23,930 --> 00:11:25,805
the notion that
culture was

305
00:11:25,805 --> 00:11:29,915
Western European,
American culture.

306
00:11:29,915 --> 00:11:31,099
They weren't
thinking American,

307
00:11:31,099 --> 00:11:32,420
but we think American.

308
00:11:32,420 --> 00:11:34,340
And they were not

309
00:11:34,340 --> 00:11:40,639
as grounded in other
kinds of cultures.

310
00:11:40,639 --> 00:11:42,469
Hunting, gathering
culture, or

311
00:11:42,469 --> 00:11:45,679
a river gardening
culture would have

312
00:11:45,679 --> 00:11:48,770
less focus on some
of the elements they

313
00:11:48,770 --> 00:11:51,890
had and more on
the interstates.

314
00:11:51,890 --> 00:11:52,819
And I'm going
to talk about

315
00:11:52,819 --> 00:11:54,229
that as I go forward.

316
00:11:54,229 --> 00:11:55,490
But thank you, Marty.

317
00:11:55,490 --> 00:11:58,190
I will take a look

318
00:11:58,190 --> 00:12:00,960
at whether I wanted
to reintroduce that.

319
00:12:01,600 --> 00:12:04,519
Thank you now for
what it's worth,

320
00:12:04,519 --> 00:12:06,530
folks, I can only
see four people.

321
00:12:06,530 --> 00:12:08,134
So if you do
have a question,

322
00:12:08,134 --> 00:12:09,479
I may not be able to see,

323
00:12:09,479 --> 00:12:11,375
so I'm not going to
help me do that.

324
00:12:11,375 --> 00:12:12,364
Thank you.

325
00:12:12,364 --> 00:12:16,685
All right, So
this basic model

326
00:12:16,685 --> 00:12:19,444
is the framework that

327
00:12:19,444 --> 00:12:21,709
most futurists
are working from.

328
00:12:21,709 --> 00:12:24,514
And some futurists

329
00:12:24,514 --> 00:12:26,854
that are focusing
primarily

330
00:12:26,854 --> 00:12:29,750
on sustainability
issues in

331
00:12:29,750 --> 00:12:33,244
the world are focusing
on the quantitative,

332
00:12:33,244 --> 00:12:36,215
The quantitatively
measurable elements.

333
00:12:36,215 --> 00:12:37,880
So here's a diagram.

334
00:12:37,880 --> 00:12:39,994
There's many out
there of someone.

335
00:12:39,994 --> 00:12:41,780
And they were actually

336
00:12:41,780 --> 00:12:43,160
trying to make
the point that,

337
00:12:43,160 --> 00:12:45,710
hey, it's really
interconnected system here.

338
00:12:45,710 --> 00:12:47,585
But if you look at
all of these things,

339
00:12:47,585 --> 00:12:49,055
they are all quantitative.

340
00:12:49,055 --> 00:12:51,890
There is nothing
qualitative in any of this.

341
00:12:51,890 --> 00:12:54,635
As Marty recalls to some,

342
00:12:54,635 --> 00:12:56,780
some distress with
some distress.

343
00:12:56,780 --> 00:13:00,320
My PhD dissertation was we

344
00:13:00,320 --> 00:13:01,430
have to include the

345
00:13:01,430 --> 00:13:04,280
qualitative and there
are some technologies,

346
00:13:04,280 --> 00:13:05,389
techniques and methods

347
00:13:05,389 --> 00:13:06,560
that we can do that with.

348
00:13:06,560 --> 00:13:08,509
And that gets
back to what are

349
00:13:08,509 --> 00:13:10,850
the appropriate
models to use.

350
00:13:10,850 --> 00:13:13,745
We can use all
quantitative models,

351
00:13:13,745 --> 00:13:14,885
but if we do so,

352
00:13:14,885 --> 00:13:17,670
we're missing
out on a lot.

353
00:13:18,040 --> 00:13:21,634
So how did that go?

354
00:13:21,634 --> 00:13:22,579
There we go.

355
00:13:22,579 --> 00:13:25,040
Oh, that's interesting.
There we go.

356
00:13:25,040 --> 00:13:29,330
So when I'm working
on futures project,

357
00:13:29,330 --> 00:13:32,525
I developed a set of
potential scenarios.

358
00:13:32,525 --> 00:13:34,039
You almost always will

359
00:13:34,039 --> 00:13:35,825
put together
three or four.

360
00:13:35,825 --> 00:13:38,330
And I invite
whoever I'm working

361
00:13:38,330 --> 00:13:41,104
with to participate
in that process.

362
00:13:41,104 --> 00:13:41,735
I'll use.

363
00:13:41,735 --> 00:13:43,580
I have a number of
processes that I

364
00:13:43,580 --> 00:13:45,995
use to help them
develop the scenarios.

365
00:13:45,995 --> 00:13:49,070
Everything from
appreciative inquiry

366
00:13:49,070 --> 00:13:52,459
to know structural
diagrams.

367
00:13:52,459 --> 00:13:54,769
And sometimes
I'll actually

368
00:13:54,769 --> 00:13:56,209
get involved
them and doing

369
00:13:56,209 --> 00:13:59,284
some guided meditation
to get into

370
00:13:59,284 --> 00:14:01,639
illustrative and
analogic models

371
00:14:01,639 --> 00:14:04,355
for their organization
or the community.

372
00:14:04,355 --> 00:14:07,100
Qualitatively, we're
looking at a lot of

373
00:14:07,100 --> 00:14:08,270
those things that were

374
00:14:08,270 --> 00:14:10,175
in that initial diagram.

375
00:14:10,175 --> 00:14:12,410
And quantitatively we're
looking at a lot of

376
00:14:12,410 --> 00:14:15,365
the things that are in
that secondary diagram

377
00:14:15,365 --> 00:14:17,570
that we can measure and we

378
00:14:17,570 --> 00:14:22,160
can see the trends
in quantitatively.

379
00:14:22,160 --> 00:14:26,840
The qualitative changes
are not as obvious.

380
00:14:26,840 --> 00:14:28,790
So one of the things
that I have learned

381
00:14:28,790 --> 00:14:31,969
to do is to bring

382
00:14:31,969 --> 00:14:34,249
things like magazines and

383
00:14:34,249 --> 00:14:37,279
journals and TV shows and

384
00:14:37,279 --> 00:14:40,160
movies and have people
look at those things

385
00:14:40,160 --> 00:14:43,609
to help them see how
things have changed.

386
00:14:43,609 --> 00:14:45,890
So if e.g.

387
00:14:45,890 --> 00:14:48,860
you look at the remake,

388
00:14:48,860 --> 00:14:51,455
a current remake
of a movie

389
00:14:51,455 --> 00:14:54,350
from the fifties or
the 70s or the 90s.

390
00:14:54,350 --> 00:14:56,974
You can see
changes in those.

391
00:14:56,974 --> 00:15:00,049
Or if you're looking
at advertising,

392
00:15:00,049 --> 00:15:02,735
or if you're looking at

393
00:15:02,735 --> 00:15:04,280
the kinds of things

394
00:15:04,280 --> 00:15:06,424
people are
choosing to read.

395
00:15:06,424 --> 00:15:10,280
Harry Potter was a
qualitative shift

396
00:15:10,280 --> 00:15:13,474
in our cultural
assumptions.

397
00:15:13,474 --> 00:15:15,229
Literally when
Harry Potter came

398
00:15:15,229 --> 00:15:18,259
out reflected a
qualitative shift

399
00:15:18,259 --> 00:15:20,359
in people's
expectations and

400
00:15:20,359 --> 00:15:22,010
assumptions about who they

401
00:15:22,010 --> 00:15:23,599
are and how the
world works.

402
00:15:23,599 --> 00:15:25,940
And the fact that
we had basically

403
00:15:25,940 --> 00:15:29,884
a whole generation
of children choose

404
00:15:29,884 --> 00:15:33,049
to live that experience
through the books and

405
00:15:33,049 --> 00:15:36,499
the movies has
contributed to that.

406
00:15:36,499 --> 00:15:38,464
And you can see it in

407
00:15:38,464 --> 00:15:40,700
the media that
is out there.

408
00:15:40,700 --> 00:15:42,019
And I'm going to show

409
00:15:42,019 --> 00:15:43,624
a little bit of
more of what,

410
00:15:43,624 --> 00:15:45,349
how we can use the media.

411
00:15:45,349 --> 00:15:46,985
As I go through.

412
00:15:46,985 --> 00:15:49,819
Some were developing
potential scenarios

413
00:15:49,819 --> 00:15:51,455
using all of these things.

414
00:15:51,455 --> 00:15:53,644
And those scenarios where

415
00:15:53,644 --> 00:15:54,979
I'm going, I'm
talking creatures.

416
00:15:54,979 --> 00:15:56,599
I said there's an
infinite range

417
00:15:56,599 --> 00:15:57,980
of possibilities.

418
00:15:57,980 --> 00:15:59,690
But there's a limit on

419
00:15:59,690 --> 00:16:03,019
the probabilities what
is likely to happen.

420
00:16:03,019 --> 00:16:04,490
So we're going to develop

421
00:16:04,490 --> 00:16:07,190
scenarios that are
in that limit,

422
00:16:07,190 --> 00:16:09,904
limited range of probable.

423
00:16:09,904 --> 00:16:12,260
This is my standard
framework and I've

424
00:16:12,260 --> 00:16:14,869
been using this my
whole life practically,

425
00:16:14,869 --> 00:16:16,699
certainly since
working with

426
00:16:16,699 --> 00:16:18,919
Harmon and Markley to

427
00:16:18,919 --> 00:16:21,080
help me frame the kinds

428
00:16:21,080 --> 00:16:23,449
of scenarios people
might be developing.

429
00:16:23,449 --> 00:16:25,760
The technological
success scenarios.

430
00:16:25,760 --> 00:16:28,984
Basically, we continue
as we have been.

431
00:16:28,984 --> 00:16:34,144
We have increased
population and we have

432
00:16:34,144 --> 00:16:36,830
maybe a slight
improvement in quality of

433
00:16:36,830 --> 00:16:40,519
life factors as
we move forward.

434
00:16:40,519 --> 00:16:44,299
The distress scenario
is the one that many,

435
00:16:44,299 --> 00:16:47,195
many, many people are
focused on these days.

436
00:16:47,195 --> 00:16:50,465
And it's everything
falls apart.

437
00:16:50,465 --> 00:16:53,599
And we looked at what
that might be in

438
00:16:53,599 --> 00:16:54,860
a given situation in

439
00:16:54,860 --> 00:16:56,150
different community

440
00:16:56,150 --> 00:16:58,280
and different
organization.

441
00:16:58,280 --> 00:17:00,589
The two other
scenarios are

442
00:17:00,589 --> 00:17:03,245
usually I have to wake
people up with these.

443
00:17:03,245 --> 00:17:07,130
The green
scenario has been

444
00:17:07,130 --> 00:17:11,820
historically appropriate
technology, eco,

445
00:17:11,820 --> 00:17:14,465
ecology based culture,

446
00:17:14,465 --> 00:17:17,495
rather than the
green agenda,

447
00:17:17,495 --> 00:17:20,105
which has become a,

448
00:17:20,105 --> 00:17:22,744
an economically
driven agenda.

449
00:17:22,744 --> 00:17:24,830
So we have to have a
conversation about

450
00:17:24,830 --> 00:17:26,059
what are we talking about

451
00:17:26,059 --> 00:17:27,784
here as a green scenario,

452
00:17:27,784 --> 00:17:29,179
then the transformation

453
00:17:29,179 --> 00:17:30,425
of consciousness scenario.

454
00:17:30,425 --> 00:17:33,545
Actually Peter Schwartz
develop this idea

455
00:17:33,545 --> 00:17:39,035
in a series of
papers and books.

456
00:17:39,035 --> 00:17:41,479
He, he offered this
that there was

457
00:17:41,479 --> 00:17:44,524
some major event that
happened in the world.

458
00:17:44,524 --> 00:17:45,799
There were two
ways to do it.

459
00:17:45,799 --> 00:17:46,849
It could be gradual and

460
00:17:46,849 --> 00:17:48,604
developmental or could be

461
00:17:48,604 --> 00:17:50,779
what he called it
an apocalyptic

462
00:17:50,779 --> 00:17:52,204
transformation.

463
00:17:52,204 --> 00:17:56,150
And so we would have
some major event

464
00:17:56,150 --> 00:17:57,979
that caused
everything to break

465
00:17:57,979 --> 00:18:00,604
down and have to come
together in a new way.

466
00:18:00,604 --> 00:18:03,695
So that approach yes,

467
00:18:03,695 --> 00:18:05,209
I see a question.

468
00:18:05,209 --> 00:18:06,709
Yeah, I'm just
curious about what

469
00:18:06,709 --> 00:18:08,089
your third third dimension

470
00:18:08,089 --> 00:18:09,965
coming towards me
in this diagram is.

471
00:18:09,965 --> 00:18:11,600
I'm sorry, it should show,

472
00:18:11,600 --> 00:18:14,699
but it's not,
it's population.

473
00:18:14,890 --> 00:18:17,209
So I've got quality of

474
00:18:17,209 --> 00:18:19,820
life factors, time
and population.

475
00:18:19,820 --> 00:18:22,115
So in the distress
scenario,

476
00:18:22,115 --> 00:18:24,379
we have actually now

477
00:18:24,379 --> 00:18:26,599
a relatively
low quality of

478
00:18:26,599 --> 00:18:29,450
life and relatively
low population.

479
00:18:29,450 --> 00:18:31,009
And the green scenario,

480
00:18:31,009 --> 00:18:34,190
we have very
low population,

481
00:18:34,190 --> 00:18:36,574
but a relatively
high quality of life

482
00:18:36,574 --> 00:18:39,290
in the transformation
of consciousness,

483
00:18:39,290 --> 00:18:42,079
consciousness scenario,
we might have

484
00:18:42,079 --> 00:18:47,540
effectively the same
population as we do now,

485
00:18:47,540 --> 00:18:50,540
but we are a
low population

486
00:18:50,540 --> 00:18:52,025
either way, it
doesn't matter.

487
00:18:52,025 --> 00:18:53,884
But the quality of life is

488
00:18:53,884 --> 00:18:56,150
off the scale, basically.

489
00:18:56,150 --> 00:18:58,835
In the transformation
of consciousness.

490
00:18:58,835 --> 00:19:00,530
What Peter and the

491
00:19:00,530 --> 00:19:02,599
other folks who were
developing this concept,

492
00:19:02,599 --> 00:19:04,129
we're saying is we

493
00:19:04,129 --> 00:19:06,155
are relating
to each other,

494
00:19:06,155 --> 00:19:08,945
to the world in a
totally different way,

495
00:19:08,945 --> 00:19:11,900
using human faculties
that we have

496
00:19:11,900 --> 00:19:13,355
not been allowed to use

497
00:19:13,355 --> 00:19:15,500
in the culture
we live in now.

498
00:19:15,500 --> 00:19:18,695
So it's a
transformation truly

499
00:19:18,695 --> 00:19:22,400
of how humanity functions,

500
00:19:22,400 --> 00:19:24,259
as well as how we

501
00:19:24,259 --> 00:19:26,524
think about and
relate to the world.

502
00:19:26,524 --> 00:19:28,370
To some extent, this is

503
00:19:28,370 --> 00:19:31,970
an extension of
the work done in

504
00:19:31,970 --> 00:19:35,749
a very actually
important work

505
00:19:35,749 --> 00:19:37,715
that not many people
know about anymore.

506
00:19:37,715 --> 00:19:40,550
It was a study done in
the seventies at SRI

507
00:19:40,550 --> 00:19:41,870
for the Lilly Foundation

508
00:19:41,870 --> 00:19:43,655
called the changing
images of men.

509
00:19:43,655 --> 00:19:46,789
It was published in 84 by

510
00:19:46,789 --> 00:19:48,244
Mark Lee and Harmon

511
00:19:48,244 --> 00:19:50,299
as the changing
images of men,

512
00:19:50,299 --> 00:19:52,700
but that name was
inappropriate by

513
00:19:52,700 --> 00:19:56,150
84 because of the
feminist revolution

514
00:19:56,150 --> 00:19:57,829
and so it got lost.

515
00:19:57,829 --> 00:20:01,550
But the concept is that
we're working with

516
00:20:01,550 --> 00:20:03,935
Joseph Campbell
and Margaret Mead,

517
00:20:03,935 --> 00:20:06,065
Arthur Hastings.

518
00:20:06,065 --> 00:20:07,790
They pulled him
people from all over

519
00:20:07,790 --> 00:20:11,390
the world to
figure out ways

520
00:20:11,390 --> 00:20:14,780
to understand how I'm

521
00:20:14,780 --> 00:20:16,189
Kenneth Bolding
also because

522
00:20:16,189 --> 00:20:16,830
he wrote the book,

523
00:20:16,830 --> 00:20:19,429
the image, how
our guiding image

524
00:20:19,429 --> 00:20:21,679
of who we are and
how the world works,

525
00:20:21,679 --> 00:20:23,899
determined how we behave

526
00:20:23,899 --> 00:20:27,004
as individuals
and as a culture.

527
00:20:27,004 --> 00:20:30,544
And frankly, that
concept has,

528
00:20:30,544 --> 00:20:33,934
has become the core
of the work that I

529
00:20:33,934 --> 00:20:37,970
do personally and
teach as individuals.

530
00:20:37,970 --> 00:20:40,740
Teach individuals
and groups

531
00:20:40,990 --> 00:20:43,535
and communities
very often,

532
00:20:43,535 --> 00:20:46,414
but in groups that
asked for it.

533
00:20:46,414 --> 00:20:49,520
So we're developing
a set of scenarios.

534
00:20:49,520 --> 00:20:51,830
We figure out a
range of parameters.

535
00:20:51,830 --> 00:20:53,719
In this case, it was
quality of life.

536
00:20:53,719 --> 00:20:56,360
It might be in
an organization.

537
00:20:56,360 --> 00:20:58,730
Okay, If we
continue as it is,

538
00:20:58,730 --> 00:21:01,730
how, how are we
accomplishing our mission?

539
00:21:01,730 --> 00:21:03,559
That might be the
factor that we're

540
00:21:03,559 --> 00:21:05,480
looking at up here.
How big are we?

541
00:21:05,480 --> 00:21:07,655
Might be the factor or

542
00:21:07,655 --> 00:21:09,860
the amount of funding

543
00:21:09,860 --> 00:21:11,360
that we get might
be a factor.

544
00:21:11,360 --> 00:21:14,330
So we find the set
of factors and

545
00:21:14,330 --> 00:21:16,205
develop something

546
00:21:16,205 --> 00:21:18,169
like this range
of scenarios.

547
00:21:18,169 --> 00:21:19,355
It all falls apart.

548
00:21:19,355 --> 00:21:21,065
We continue as is,

549
00:21:21,065 --> 00:21:24,890
we figure a sustainable
way of doing it,

550
00:21:24,890 --> 00:21:27,785
usually ecologically
as well as culturally.

551
00:21:27,785 --> 00:21:29,960
And then we
look at what if

552
00:21:29,960 --> 00:21:32,629
we just did everything
entirely differently?

553
00:21:32,629 --> 00:21:35,639
And that's the
transformation.

554
00:21:38,490 --> 00:21:41,425
Now, as I said earlier,

555
00:21:41,425 --> 00:21:43,645
I use the analogy a lot,

556
00:21:43,645 --> 00:21:46,045
the analogous
analogical models.

557
00:21:46,045 --> 00:21:47,440
So I've

558
00:21:47,440 --> 00:21:49,809
discovered that
ecosystems and cultures

559
00:21:49,809 --> 00:21:52,570
basically function
in the same way

560
00:21:52,570 --> 00:21:53,815
as they are analogous.

561
00:21:53,815 --> 00:21:56,500
The relationships between
what seemed to be

562
00:21:56,500 --> 00:21:59,289
independently functioning
elements lead

563
00:21:59,289 --> 00:22:02,589
to the ongoing
sustainability of the hole.

564
00:22:02,589 --> 00:22:08,409
And this this curve,
this traditional curve,

565
00:22:08,409 --> 00:22:12,519
seems to be what
we're going to see in

566
00:22:12,519 --> 00:22:16,900
any sustained or
sustainable organization,

567
00:22:16,900 --> 00:22:19,464
cultural system,
or ecosystem.

568
00:22:19,464 --> 00:22:22,519
It, it's consistent
over and over again,

569
00:22:22,519 --> 00:22:24,229
I'm finding the
same thing.

570
00:22:24,229 --> 00:22:25,115
Now.

571
00:22:25,115 --> 00:22:28,220
We all know that
environment

572
00:22:28,220 --> 00:22:29,855
continues to change.

573
00:22:29,855 --> 00:22:32,269
And so what is
sustainable in

574
00:22:32,269 --> 00:22:35,705
scenario one is no
longer sustainable,

575
00:22:35,705 --> 00:22:38,299
so as the
environment changes,

576
00:22:38,299 --> 00:22:40,114
so each of these

577
00:22:40,114 --> 00:22:42,559
is actually a
different ecosystem,

578
00:22:42,559 --> 00:22:45,950
although it's the
same place until we

579
00:22:45,950 --> 00:22:48,124
get to the
re-establishment

580
00:22:48,124 --> 00:22:49,685
of the forest ecosystem.

581
00:22:49,685 --> 00:22:52,804
And the same may happen
to an organization.

582
00:22:52,804 --> 00:22:54,379
And I've seen this
with a lot of

583
00:22:54,379 --> 00:22:57,079
businesses where
they started

584
00:22:57,079 --> 00:22:59,060
out doing one
thing and then

585
00:22:59,060 --> 00:23:01,414
through some
major collapse,

586
00:23:01,414 --> 00:23:04,820
experienced, ended
up being focused on

587
00:23:04,820 --> 00:23:06,620
entirely different
kinds of

588
00:23:06,620 --> 00:23:09,559
products and to
re-establish themselves.

589
00:23:09,559 --> 00:23:12,619
So that's means we're
looking at Penn archi.

590
00:23:12,619 --> 00:23:14,825
We're talking about

591
00:23:14,825 --> 00:23:18,589
this loop of
possibilities.

592
00:23:18,589 --> 00:23:21,109
And I'll have some
more to that.

593
00:23:21,109 --> 00:23:26,270
But with that experience
of things falling

594
00:23:26,270 --> 00:23:28,250
apart and coming
back together

595
00:23:28,250 --> 00:23:32,179
in ways that can
be sustained.

596
00:23:32,179 --> 00:23:36,590
We see that any
organization or

597
00:23:36,590 --> 00:23:38,825
culture is going to

598
00:23:38,825 --> 00:23:41,539
have to find new
ways to functions.

599
00:23:41,539 --> 00:23:43,280
So the way I
usually presented

600
00:23:43,280 --> 00:23:47,539
like not one pan

601
00:23:47,539 --> 00:23:50,630
are cases, experience,
it's overlapping.

602
00:23:50,630 --> 00:23:54,079
Series is of an
amine series

603
00:23:54,079 --> 00:23:58,504
is of the pan
archaea experience.

604
00:23:58,504 --> 00:24:00,620
And the way we
talk about it in

605
00:24:00,620 --> 00:24:03,379
the organizational
context or

606
00:24:03,379 --> 00:24:05,420
the cultural contexts is

607
00:24:05,420 --> 00:24:06,619
a little different from

608
00:24:06,619 --> 00:24:08,450
the ecological contexts

609
00:24:08,450 --> 00:24:10,489
that we're talking about.

610
00:24:10,489 --> 00:24:11,479
What is going on

611
00:24:11,479 --> 00:24:13,579
individually in
the inner growth

612
00:24:13,579 --> 00:24:14,930
at the bottom of the curve

613
00:24:14,930 --> 00:24:16,819
there we're talking about,

614
00:24:16,819 --> 00:24:18,304
can you see my cursor?

615
00:24:18,304 --> 00:24:19,459
Is that useful?

616
00:24:19,459 --> 00:24:22,174
All right, so we start
out with the seed,

617
00:24:22,174 --> 00:24:23,540
which is an idea,

618
00:24:23,540 --> 00:24:24,680
or it could be a plant

619
00:24:24,680 --> 00:24:26,104
if you're talking
ecosystems.

620
00:24:26,104 --> 00:24:28,580
But in cultural or
organizational systems,

621
00:24:28,580 --> 00:24:29,689
we have the seed.

622
00:24:29,689 --> 00:24:32,180
We go through an
inner growth process

623
00:24:32,180 --> 00:24:34,384
that is within the folks,

624
00:24:34,384 --> 00:24:36,229
the individual
or the group

625
00:24:36,229 --> 00:24:37,970
that is trying
to develop it.

626
00:24:37,970 --> 00:24:40,955
And as they develop
it, they emerge.

627
00:24:40,955 --> 00:24:43,204
And as they
emerge into form,

628
00:24:43,204 --> 00:24:45,079
this is a merging
into form.

629
00:24:45,079 --> 00:24:47,689
The seed is going to

630
00:24:47,689 --> 00:24:51,455
take them develop
within the seed,

631
00:24:51,455 --> 00:24:52,879
and then it's going to

632
00:24:52,879 --> 00:24:54,664
send out roots and stems.

633
00:24:54,664 --> 00:24:56,015
And the same thing happens

634
00:24:56,015 --> 00:24:58,354
in cultures and
organizations.

635
00:24:58,354 --> 00:25:00,635
And then as it emerges,

636
00:25:00,635 --> 00:25:02,330
it starts to share,

637
00:25:02,330 --> 00:25:04,880
it starts to interact
with others.

638
00:25:04,880 --> 00:25:08,705
And there becomes
increasing interdependence.

639
00:25:08,705 --> 00:25:11,044
And growth on the outside

640
00:25:11,044 --> 00:25:12,259
with the growth comes to

641
00:25:12,259 --> 00:25:14,375
increasing
interdependence.

642
00:25:14,375 --> 00:25:16,520
That then leads to

643
00:25:16,520 --> 00:25:18,920
the formation of
more structures.

644
00:25:18,920 --> 00:25:20,840
Now in an organization,

645
00:25:20,840 --> 00:25:23,494
initially it's maybe one
guy doing everybody,

646
00:25:23,494 --> 00:25:24,979
everything, and
then it's a team

647
00:25:24,979 --> 00:25:26,630
of folks doing everything.

648
00:25:26,630 --> 00:25:27,950
And then it gets to be too

649
00:25:27,950 --> 00:25:30,079
complex for everyone
to do everything.

650
00:25:30,079 --> 00:25:32,720
And so people start
sorting out roles and

651
00:25:32,720 --> 00:25:33,619
then you start getting

652
00:25:33,619 --> 00:25:35,480
policies and procedures.

653
00:25:35,480 --> 00:25:36,425
And Southern.

654
00:25:36,425 --> 00:25:37,610
So then we go

655
00:25:37,610 --> 00:25:40,220
increasing structure
and growth till there

656
00:25:40,220 --> 00:25:42,500
is the maximum structure

657
00:25:42,500 --> 00:25:44,419
and the minimum corrupt.

658
00:25:44,419 --> 00:25:46,339
The example is
a tree, right?

659
00:25:46,339 --> 00:25:48,409
You've got the heavy bark

660
00:25:48,409 --> 00:25:50,915
and it's not
going very far.

661
00:25:50,915 --> 00:25:52,234
Alright?

662
00:25:52,234 --> 00:25:55,069
Now, all of these
little arrows around

663
00:25:55,069 --> 00:25:56,600
the edges are constant

664
00:25:56,600 --> 00:25:58,130
inputs from the
environment.

665
00:25:58,130 --> 00:25:59,630
Sometimes they're storms,

666
00:25:59,630 --> 00:26:01,909
sometimes they're
shifts in the economy,

667
00:26:01,909 --> 00:26:04,670
sometimes they're
fires, whatever it is.

668
00:26:04,670 --> 00:26:07,670
And through the
early stages,

669
00:26:07,670 --> 00:26:09,829
the organization,
the culture,

670
00:26:09,829 --> 00:26:13,069
the system is able
to respond to

671
00:26:13,069 --> 00:26:14,119
those in some kind

672
00:26:14,119 --> 00:26:16,625
of flexible,
resilient way.

673
00:26:16,625 --> 00:26:18,290
But at the point of

674
00:26:18,290 --> 00:26:22,340
this maximum structure,
a minimum growth.

675
00:26:22,340 --> 00:26:27,335
The next event can be
the critical event.

676
00:26:27,335 --> 00:26:28,955
So here we're talking

677
00:26:28,955 --> 00:26:31,234
Prigogine dissipative
structures.

678
00:26:31,234 --> 00:26:34,219
We're talking about the
critical fluctuation.

679
00:26:34,219 --> 00:26:37,280
And what happens
in cultures and

680
00:26:37,280 --> 00:26:40,309
organizations is
an experience

681
00:26:40,309 --> 00:26:43,280
that's called
the catastrophe.

682
00:26:43,280 --> 00:26:47,134
In the catastrophe
or through,

683
00:26:47,134 --> 00:26:50,960
or because of there
may be chaos.

684
00:26:50,960 --> 00:26:52,970
One of the things that

685
00:26:52,970 --> 00:26:55,310
I encourage
organizations and

686
00:26:55,310 --> 00:26:57,889
communities to do
is to recognize

687
00:26:57,889 --> 00:27:00,710
there will be
chaos, period.

688
00:27:00,710 --> 00:27:04,114
You can't not have
the chaotic result.

689
00:27:04,114 --> 00:27:06,320
Of the, of the
catastrophe because

690
00:27:06,320 --> 00:27:08,389
the structure is what is

691
00:27:08,389 --> 00:27:10,999
destroyed in the
catastrophe.

692
00:27:10,999 --> 00:27:13,955
The basic complex,

693
00:27:13,955 --> 00:27:16,910
very integrate
structure is

694
00:27:16,910 --> 00:27:19,595
no longer able to
do what it does.

695
00:27:19,595 --> 00:27:22,565
Kinda like the harder
house right now.

696
00:27:22,565 --> 00:27:26,719
So then the thing that I

697
00:27:26,719 --> 00:27:28,069
do when I'm working

698
00:27:28,069 --> 00:27:30,155
with organizations
and communities,

699
00:27:30,155 --> 00:27:33,380
as I say, what
we've got to do,

700
00:27:33,380 --> 00:27:35,479
we can swallow and

701
00:27:35,479 --> 00:27:37,954
the catastrophe as
long as you want.

702
00:27:37,954 --> 00:27:39,649
And you will wallow in

703
00:27:39,649 --> 00:27:41,060
the catastrophe
as long as you're

704
00:27:41,060 --> 00:27:42,979
looking back and trying to

705
00:27:42,979 --> 00:27:47,159
have the structure
you used to have.

706
00:27:47,159 --> 00:27:52,074
But if you're willing
to look forward at

707
00:27:52,074 --> 00:27:57,024
the new seed that is
ready to be developed.

708
00:27:57,024 --> 00:27:59,679
As a result of this,

709
00:27:59,679 --> 00:28:03,264
you will then start
a new process

710
00:28:03,264 --> 00:28:07,600
of the pan archi
infinity that I love.

711
00:28:07,600 --> 00:28:12,130
And so focusing on
the emerging seed,

712
00:28:12,130 --> 00:28:13,300
I think the image,

713
00:28:13,300 --> 00:28:14,799
the analogy that
it has helped

714
00:28:14,799 --> 00:28:16,750
me so much with this is

715
00:28:16,750 --> 00:28:19,749
a redwood tree cannot

716
00:28:19,749 --> 00:28:22,090
grow unless
there are fires.

717
00:28:22,090 --> 00:28:25,659
The new redwood forest
can not start because

718
00:28:25,659 --> 00:28:28,914
the Redwoods seeds require

719
00:28:28,914 --> 00:28:33,020
fire to be able to sprout.

720
00:28:33,020 --> 00:28:34,790
They can't even start

721
00:28:34,790 --> 00:28:36,364
without some kind of fire.

722
00:28:36,364 --> 00:28:39,530
So our fire
management thing

723
00:28:39,530 --> 00:28:40,819
has not helped very well.

724
00:28:40,819 --> 00:28:43,129
Read forests
unfortunately.

725
00:28:43,129 --> 00:28:46,294
So as we get through
that catastrophe,

726
00:28:46,294 --> 00:28:48,049
weight can fall
apart and become

727
00:28:48,049 --> 00:28:49,369
the failed organization

728
00:28:49,369 --> 00:28:50,765
or community or culture.

729
00:28:50,765 --> 00:28:55,309
Or we can focus on the
seed and be sustained.

730
00:28:55,309 --> 00:28:58,309
And I will refer
people to movies and

731
00:28:58,309 --> 00:29:02,240
stories and whatever
to help them see this.

732
00:29:02,240 --> 00:29:05,419
This is usually the
model that I use,

733
00:29:05,419 --> 00:29:09,629
but is that the elements
we're talking about?

734
00:29:09,760 --> 00:29:13,340
All right, So where
are we today?

735
00:29:13,340 --> 00:29:14,809
That's what people want to

736
00:29:14,809 --> 00:29:16,850
know more than
anything else,

737
00:29:16,850 --> 00:29:18,890
is what is going
on and how

738
00:29:18,890 --> 00:29:21,050
did we get here and
where are we going?

739
00:29:21,050 --> 00:29:23,494
As a culture, I probably
get asked for this

740
00:29:23,494 --> 00:29:26,194
one every two or
three months.

741
00:29:26,194 --> 00:29:28,985
So this is my
summary graph.

742
00:29:28,985 --> 00:29:30,574
I will normally have spent

743
00:29:30,574 --> 00:29:32,390
two or 3 h
building up to it,

744
00:29:32,390 --> 00:29:34,715
but you guys know how
to read these things.

745
00:29:34,715 --> 00:29:37,669
The bottom thin
wiggly line

746
00:29:37,669 --> 00:29:39,109
that's just going
along the bottom.

747
00:29:39,109 --> 00:29:40,744
All along there are
hunting gatherers.

748
00:29:40,744 --> 00:29:42,559
We still have a few
hunter-gatherers

749
00:29:42,559 --> 00:29:44,375
in the world today.

750
00:29:44,375 --> 00:29:46,909
When I started
studying anthropology,

751
00:29:46,909 --> 00:29:49,340
we had approximately 5,000

752
00:29:49,340 --> 00:29:50,900
cultures on the planet.

753
00:29:50,900 --> 00:29:53,990
There are approximately
500 cultures

754
00:29:53,990 --> 00:29:55,609
on the planet
now because of

755
00:29:55,609 --> 00:29:57,800
the globalization that has

756
00:29:57,800 --> 00:30:00,784
occurred of and I'll
talk more about,

757
00:30:00,784 --> 00:30:02,795
of what here in a moment.

758
00:30:02,795 --> 00:30:05,120
But hunter-gatherers
were some of them.

759
00:30:05,120 --> 00:30:06,664
The next line up,

760
00:30:06,664 --> 00:30:08,359
that black line that's
going all the way

761
00:30:08,359 --> 00:30:10,610
across our
gardening villages.

762
00:30:10,610 --> 00:30:14,194
These usually happened
near rivers or lakes,

763
00:30:14,194 --> 00:30:15,904
and they came into being

764
00:30:15,904 --> 00:30:18,230
about 10,000 years ago.

765
00:30:18,230 --> 00:30:20,989
And they continue
to exist.

766
00:30:20,989 --> 00:30:22,280
And in fact, there are

767
00:30:22,280 --> 00:30:24,649
gardening villages
that are still in

768
00:30:24,649 --> 00:30:26,330
the same buildings and

769
00:30:26,330 --> 00:30:28,459
still on the same
piece of land

770
00:30:28,459 --> 00:30:30,590
for I know of

771
00:30:30,590 --> 00:30:33,405
one that's been there
for 4,000 years.

772
00:30:33,405 --> 00:30:36,849
Um, so humans don't

773
00:30:36,849 --> 00:30:40,039
necessarily destroyed
their environment.

774
00:30:41,160 --> 00:30:43,030
That they have to have

775
00:30:43,030 --> 00:30:44,604
a certain cultural form

776
00:30:44,604 --> 00:30:46,299
in order to do that.

777
00:30:46,299 --> 00:30:49,824
Then about 4,000 BCE,

778
00:30:49,824 --> 00:30:52,224
about 6,000 years ago,

779
00:30:52,224 --> 00:30:53,859
a whole lot of
things changed

780
00:30:53,859 --> 00:30:55,539
and we're not exactly
sure if people

781
00:30:55,539 --> 00:30:56,619
are still out there in

782
00:30:56,619 --> 00:30:58,299
the archaeology
world trying to

783
00:30:58,299 --> 00:31:00,264
figure out precisely
what happened.

784
00:31:00,264 --> 00:31:01,629
But among other things,

785
00:31:01,629 --> 00:31:03,070
the Sahara began to dry

786
00:31:03,070 --> 00:31:04,690
up and people
started heading for

787
00:31:04,690 --> 00:31:05,920
the Nile River
Valley because

788
00:31:05,920 --> 00:31:07,539
that's where they
only sustained water

789
00:31:07,539 --> 00:31:10,449
was the areas around

790
00:31:10,449 --> 00:31:12,099
the Tigris and Euphrates.

791
00:31:12,099 --> 00:31:14,950
The gardening villages
started to be

792
00:31:14,950 --> 00:31:18,290
overrun by other people.

793
00:31:18,290 --> 00:31:20,030
And so one of

794
00:31:20,030 --> 00:31:21,949
the pieces of research
that I've spent

795
00:31:21,949 --> 00:31:23,060
quite a bit of time on

796
00:31:23,060 --> 00:31:25,519
his what were those
other people?

797
00:31:25,519 --> 00:31:28,040
And it turns out that
they were the Endo,

798
00:31:28,040 --> 00:31:32,419
errands that began
the Caucasians

799
00:31:32,419 --> 00:31:34,580
that emerged out
of the Caucasus.

800
00:31:34,580 --> 00:31:36,650
And so one of the
things I've been

801
00:31:36,650 --> 00:31:38,569
playing with
and my work has

802
00:31:38,569 --> 00:31:40,520
been what was
the nature of

803
00:31:40,520 --> 00:31:42,559
the culture of the
people coming out of

804
00:31:42,559 --> 00:31:46,865
the Caucasus that then
ended up creating

805
00:31:46,865 --> 00:31:50,554
a whole new cultural
system among

806
00:31:50,554 --> 00:31:52,820
the river
gardening villages

807
00:31:52,820 --> 00:31:55,280
and the like,
gardening villages.

808
00:31:55,280 --> 00:31:59,074
And so I've written
a book that is

809
00:31:59,074 --> 00:32:01,759
focused on other
things but includes

810
00:32:01,759 --> 00:32:04,355
in the appendix the
specifics of this.

811
00:32:04,355 --> 00:32:06,049
It turns out that

812
00:32:06,049 --> 00:32:08,959
starting at least
4,000 days,

813
00:32:08,959 --> 00:32:11,120
say at least
6,000 years ago,

814
00:32:11,120 --> 00:32:13,489
probably 8,000 years ago.

815
00:32:13,489 --> 00:32:16,490
About every 200 years,

816
00:32:16,490 --> 00:32:18,709
waves of people
would come out of

817
00:32:18,709 --> 00:32:21,679
the Caucasus into the
surrounding valleys.

818
00:32:21,679 --> 00:32:24,980
And that would go
on and on and on.

819
00:32:24,980 --> 00:32:27,199
Now, the Caucasus were

820
00:32:27,199 --> 00:32:29,435
the last bastion

821
00:32:29,435 --> 00:32:32,939
of glacier
hunter-gatherer culture.

822
00:32:32,939 --> 00:32:38,155
As the glaciers retreated
back at 10,000 BC,

823
00:32:38,155 --> 00:32:41,845
the land around
the mountains

824
00:32:41,845 --> 00:32:45,159
became burdened
and the mountains

825
00:32:45,159 --> 00:32:47,784
were the only
glacier areas left.

826
00:32:47,784 --> 00:32:50,860
The caucuses is
highly volcanic.

827
00:32:50,860 --> 00:32:53,754
There are lots of
activities going on there.

828
00:32:53,754 --> 00:32:55,480
It's hatches, a lot

829
00:32:55,480 --> 00:32:57,595
of the weather front
out of Europe.

830
00:32:57,595 --> 00:32:59,110
And it's a really,

831
00:32:59,110 --> 00:33:01,989
really nasty place
to try to live.

832
00:33:01,989 --> 00:33:05,620
But it was familiar in
the sense that there

833
00:33:05,620 --> 00:33:07,120
were still glaciers for

834
00:33:07,120 --> 00:33:09,399
the glacier
oriented cultures.

835
00:33:09,399 --> 00:33:10,659
So some of them went

836
00:33:10,659 --> 00:33:12,010
followed the
glaciers up to

837
00:33:12,010 --> 00:33:13,360
the Arctic Circle and we

838
00:33:13,360 --> 00:33:15,849
still see those
cultures up there.

839
00:33:15,849 --> 00:33:17,619
What happened is

840
00:33:17,619 --> 00:33:21,190
the big game hunters
of glacier life,

841
00:33:21,190 --> 00:33:23,379
prior to 10,000 BC,

842
00:33:23,379 --> 00:33:25,765
ended up having to

843
00:33:25,765 --> 00:33:27,820
herd the animals they

844
00:33:27,820 --> 00:33:29,649
used to follow and hunt.

845
00:33:29,649 --> 00:33:31,840
So they shifted
from following and

846
00:33:31,840 --> 00:33:35,289
hunting to managing
their herds.

847
00:33:35,289 --> 00:33:37,780
And that culture of

848
00:33:37,780 --> 00:33:41,769
the glacier hunters
shifts them

849
00:33:41,769 --> 00:33:43,510
to mountain herders or

850
00:33:43,510 --> 00:33:46,044
glacier herders up around
the Arctic Circle.

851
00:33:46,044 --> 00:33:50,440
And there's, there
are values that

852
00:33:50,440 --> 00:33:52,540
go with hurting
that are not the

853
00:33:52,540 --> 00:33:55,179
same as the values
that go with farming.

854
00:33:55,179 --> 00:33:57,520
And sometimes when
I'm doing my glasses,

855
00:33:57,520 --> 00:33:58,809
I'll refer people to

856
00:33:58,809 --> 00:34:01,300
the musical Oklahoma to

857
00:34:01,300 --> 00:34:03,159
help them understand this.

858
00:34:03,159 --> 00:34:06,235
Or to the cowboy
wore the range wars,

859
00:34:06,235 --> 00:34:08,950
the US in the
19th century.

860
00:34:08,950 --> 00:34:12,190
They're very different
ways of being hurt

861
00:34:12,190 --> 00:34:15,879
or is trying to
maximize the herd.

862
00:34:15,879 --> 00:34:19,704
And has a bull
and many cows,

863
00:34:19,704 --> 00:34:22,584
one male and many females.

864
00:34:22,584 --> 00:34:24,369
This is very
different from

865
00:34:24,369 --> 00:34:26,769
a farming culture, a
gardening culture,

866
00:34:26,769 --> 00:34:28,689
and actually gardening
is different from

867
00:34:28,689 --> 00:34:31,105
farming or gardening
culture says,

868
00:34:31,105 --> 00:34:33,610
we have virtually
everything we need

869
00:34:33,610 --> 00:34:36,670
within the acre
of our home.

870
00:34:36,670 --> 00:34:39,819
And we share what we
don't need a whip

871
00:34:39,819 --> 00:34:41,349
the others in our village,

872
00:34:41,349 --> 00:34:42,549
what we don't
have, what we

873
00:34:42,549 --> 00:34:44,575
don't produce, we share.

874
00:34:44,575 --> 00:34:47,304
And that kind of culture

875
00:34:47,304 --> 00:34:50,245
is the norm in Polynesia.

876
00:34:50,245 --> 00:34:52,644
And the Native Americans,

877
00:34:52,644 --> 00:34:55,000
the village
Native Americans,

878
00:34:55,000 --> 00:34:56,620
the village
cultures all over

879
00:34:56,620 --> 00:34:59,574
the world have
that way of being.

880
00:34:59,574 --> 00:35:02,800
So you get herders and
you'll get gardeners.

881
00:35:02,800 --> 00:35:05,170
And there's this
huge disconnect.

882
00:35:05,170 --> 00:35:07,330
The herders do
not recognize

883
00:35:07,330 --> 00:35:09,070
gardens as useful because

884
00:35:09,070 --> 00:35:10,345
they're not range land.

885
00:35:10,345 --> 00:35:11,680
So they just let their

886
00:35:11,680 --> 00:35:13,239
cattle trample
the gardens.

887
00:35:13,239 --> 00:35:15,580
So every 200 years

888
00:35:15,580 --> 00:35:18,219
there would be
these herders with

889
00:35:18,219 --> 00:35:20,020
their cattle and sometimes

890
00:35:20,020 --> 00:35:23,410
horses coming
in across Asia.

891
00:35:23,410 --> 00:35:26,050
And then you can
see every 200 years

892
00:35:26,050 --> 00:35:28,689
this movement away
from the Caucasus,

893
00:35:28,689 --> 00:35:30,220
that goes further
and further

894
00:35:30,220 --> 00:35:32,260
away from the Caucasus,

895
00:35:32,260 --> 00:35:34,420
up into the
Danube and down

896
00:35:34,420 --> 00:35:38,169
into Africa and
into India.

897
00:35:38,169 --> 00:35:43,840
That structure of behavior
way back when lead

898
00:35:43,840 --> 00:35:46,149
to the beginning of what

899
00:35:46,149 --> 00:35:48,850
we now call city culture,

900
00:35:48,850 --> 00:35:50,275
civilization,

901
00:35:50,275 --> 00:35:54,024
or what I call
medieval fiefdoms.

902
00:35:54,024 --> 00:35:58,179
What began to happen
was one Bull had

903
00:35:58,179 --> 00:35:59,680
to have a lot of
followers and

904
00:35:59,680 --> 00:36:01,719
one men had to
be in charge.

905
00:36:01,719 --> 00:36:07,059
It was not normal and
still is not normal in

906
00:36:07,059 --> 00:36:08,830
gardening or a
hunter-gatherer

907
00:36:08,830 --> 00:36:10,104
cultures to have

908
00:36:10,104 --> 00:36:13,795
one man in charge and
everyone else follows.

909
00:36:13,795 --> 00:36:17,319
This idea came out
of the Caucasus.

910
00:36:17,319 --> 00:36:18,490
It's written into

911
00:36:18,490 --> 00:36:20,470
the Upanishads
and the Rig Veda.

912
00:36:20,470 --> 00:36:21,730
It's written into

913
00:36:21,730 --> 00:36:23,634
the stories of
the Samarian,

914
00:36:23,634 --> 00:36:24,895
the Epic of Gilgamesh,

915
00:36:24,895 --> 00:36:28,749
actually explains how
the people felt when

916
00:36:28,749 --> 00:36:30,609
this guy came in and was

917
00:36:30,609 --> 00:36:33,055
taken what he wanted
and ruling the scene.

918
00:36:33,055 --> 00:36:34,690
So I can go on with that,

919
00:36:34,690 --> 00:36:36,250
but I want so that

920
00:36:36,250 --> 00:36:38,694
reddish line across
the middle there

921
00:36:38,694 --> 00:36:43,014
is that way of living
that is city-state.

922
00:36:43,014 --> 00:36:44,274
One guy's in charge,

923
00:36:44,274 --> 00:36:46,315
everyone has to
do what he says.

924
00:36:46,315 --> 00:36:48,160
And if you want to look

925
00:36:48,160 --> 00:36:50,844
at a really good
description of it,

926
00:36:50,844 --> 00:36:55,285
Lewis Mumford, the
city in history.

927
00:36:55,285 --> 00:36:58,570
He just lays it
out beautifully.

928
00:36:58,570 --> 00:37:02,784
So that city-state
structure

929
00:37:02,784 --> 00:37:04,509
continues and

930
00:37:04,509 --> 00:37:07,479
people coagulate
their city-states,

931
00:37:07,479 --> 00:37:10,285
if you will, bring them
together in Saigon

932
00:37:10,285 --> 00:37:13,554
is our first emperor
in some area.

933
00:37:13,554 --> 00:37:17,814
And that would have
been about 3,200 BC.

934
00:37:17,814 --> 00:37:20,649
We start having what
I'm beginning to

935
00:37:20,649 --> 00:37:23,394
call the empire
culture forming

936
00:37:23,394 --> 00:37:26,890
through these values that

937
00:37:26,890 --> 00:37:28,329
are being imposed on

938
00:37:28,329 --> 00:37:30,069
the gardening villages by

939
00:37:30,069 --> 00:37:32,155
these herders who are

940
00:37:32,155 --> 00:37:34,539
imposing their way
of doing things.

941
00:37:34,539 --> 00:37:37,284
And there's a whole lot
more to it than that.

942
00:37:37,284 --> 00:37:40,765
That's been going
on for a long time.

943
00:37:40,765 --> 00:37:42,309
And out of that,

944
00:37:42,309 --> 00:37:43,779
a whole lot of other
things happen.

945
00:37:43,779 --> 00:37:44,829
I'm giving you a very,

946
00:37:44,829 --> 00:37:46,374
very surface
kind of thing.

947
00:37:46,374 --> 00:37:50,460
But an interesting
shift happened 1,000,

948
00:37:50,460 --> 00:37:53,860
1,000 years ago that

949
00:37:53,860 --> 00:37:56,995
actually comes out
of the monasteries.

950
00:37:56,995 --> 00:38:00,564
And the book, the
medieval machine.

951
00:38:00,564 --> 00:38:02,589
I just block the
author's name,

952
00:38:02,589 --> 00:38:05,589
but you can find a
medieval machine kind

953
00:38:05,589 --> 00:38:06,895
of explains this,

954
00:38:06,895 --> 00:38:10,765
how the Cistercians
established

955
00:38:10,765 --> 00:38:12,730
the structure that we

956
00:38:12,730 --> 00:38:16,029
call an industrial
structure at

957
00:38:16,029 --> 00:38:17,319
the same time by

958
00:38:17,319 --> 00:38:19,825
following St.
Benedict's rule.

959
00:38:19,825 --> 00:38:21,985
You can see this in
some of the work

960
00:38:21,985 --> 00:38:24,669
on the Templars
and the Masons.

961
00:38:24,669 --> 00:38:27,369
St. Benedict's rule said,

962
00:38:27,369 --> 00:38:29,755
when you joined
a monastery,

963
00:38:29,755 --> 00:38:33,880
whatever you were
beforehand did not count.

964
00:38:33,880 --> 00:38:35,949
You are now an
equal brother

965
00:38:35,949 --> 00:38:37,975
with everyone else
in the monastery.

966
00:38:37,975 --> 00:38:39,159
Now that didn't
always happen

967
00:38:39,159 --> 00:38:41,365
exactly that way, but
that was the rule.

968
00:38:41,365 --> 00:38:44,290
And so everyone was equal.

969
00:38:44,290 --> 00:38:45,954
The other thing is

970
00:38:45,954 --> 00:38:49,960
every monastery
elected there,

971
00:38:49,960 --> 00:38:54,009
liter, there, Abbott,
there, Whoever.

972
00:38:54,009 --> 00:38:55,690
Even though they
were part of

973
00:38:55,690 --> 00:38:58,149
a hierarchical empire
culture structure

974
00:38:58,149 --> 00:38:59,454
called the Roman Church.

975
00:38:59,454 --> 00:39:02,065
Within the
monastery, it was

976
00:39:02,065 --> 00:39:05,560
a democracy and
everyone was equal.

977
00:39:05,560 --> 00:39:07,794
Now what the
Cistercians did is

978
00:39:07,794 --> 00:39:10,239
nine guys would go up,
they talked to a king.

979
00:39:10,239 --> 00:39:10,960
They'd say, give us

980
00:39:10,960 --> 00:39:12,744
this barren
hillside over here.

981
00:39:12,744 --> 00:39:13,990
They've turned it into

982
00:39:13,990 --> 00:39:17,320
a thriving wool
production system.

983
00:39:17,320 --> 00:39:19,825
They used water
wheels, et cetera.

984
00:39:19,825 --> 00:39:22,599
These nine guys
ultimately would become

985
00:39:22,599 --> 00:39:24,610
an interconnected
community

986
00:39:24,610 --> 00:39:27,729
involving 3,000 people,

987
00:39:27,729 --> 00:39:31,794
typically for
one monastery.

988
00:39:31,794 --> 00:39:36,219
And those people were
seeing these guys who

989
00:39:36,219 --> 00:39:38,979
were democratic equal in

990
00:39:38,979 --> 00:39:41,184
the monastery and
they all could read.

991
00:39:41,184 --> 00:39:43,390
So there was a shift

992
00:39:43,390 --> 00:39:45,670
starting right
about 1,000 years

993
00:39:45,670 --> 00:39:48,504
ago in people's
assumptions

994
00:39:48,504 --> 00:39:50,425
about what was possible.

995
00:39:50,425 --> 00:39:52,344
I'm back to the
qualitative,

996
00:39:52,344 --> 00:39:53,979
quantitative over here in

997
00:39:53,979 --> 00:39:55,614
the technology
and the economy.

998
00:39:55,614 --> 00:39:57,655
But the qualitative
is the shift

999
00:39:57,655 --> 00:39:59,979
in the belief about
what is possible.

1000
00:39:59,979 --> 00:40:02,349
So that begins

1001
00:40:02,349 --> 00:40:05,890
the whole concept
of a democracy.

1002
00:40:05,890 --> 00:40:08,949
We begin to see it
happen in guilds.

1003
00:40:08,949 --> 00:40:11,754
We begin then to
see the Freemasons.

1004
00:40:11,754 --> 00:40:13,719
And it's well-known that

1005
00:40:13,719 --> 00:40:15,819
virtually everyone
who created

1006
00:40:15,819 --> 00:40:17,589
the Declaration of
Independence and the

1007
00:40:17,589 --> 00:40:20,080
Constitution were
active Freemasons.

1008
00:40:20,080 --> 00:40:22,269
And it's part of
the Freemasons.

1009
00:40:22,269 --> 00:40:24,144
It doesn't matter what
you are out there.

1010
00:40:24,144 --> 00:40:24,850
In here.

1011
00:40:24,850 --> 00:40:27,655
We're all equal and we
elect our leadership.

1012
00:40:27,655 --> 00:40:31,299
It was built in nowhere
else has this ever

1013
00:40:31,299 --> 00:40:36,085
happened in the world
within empire culture.

1014
00:40:36,085 --> 00:40:39,789
But through St.
Benedict's rule and

1015
00:40:39,789 --> 00:40:41,799
through the
continued influence

1016
00:40:41,799 --> 00:40:43,990
of the Freemasons,
we had this.

1017
00:40:43,990 --> 00:40:48,354
So the democratic
republics began to form.

1018
00:40:48,354 --> 00:40:50,875
And by 18, 50,

1019
00:40:50,875 --> 00:40:53,379
which is what this line

1020
00:40:53,379 --> 00:40:54,775
down the middle of it is.

1021
00:40:54,775 --> 00:40:55,900
They are pretty much

1022
00:40:55,900 --> 00:40:57,310
the dominant form of

1023
00:40:57,310 --> 00:40:59,454
culture in terms
of population.

1024
00:40:59,454 --> 00:41:01,765
And they continue
to expand.

1025
00:41:01,765 --> 00:41:04,254
The red line is now.

1026
00:41:04,254 --> 00:41:07,540
But there's something
else that happened.

1027
00:41:07,540 --> 00:41:10,090
I say 2000s aid

1028
00:41:10,090 --> 00:41:12,564
because archaeologists
use general terms.

1029
00:41:12,564 --> 00:41:18,265
But in my mind, It
happened 1962-1972.

1030
00:41:18,265 --> 00:41:21,700
And that is the
innovations,

1031
00:41:21,700 --> 00:41:23,829
that technological
innovations and

1032
00:41:23,829 --> 00:41:25,479
new values

1033
00:41:25,479 --> 00:41:27,714
regarding our relationship
with the Earth.

1034
00:41:27,714 --> 00:41:31,989
So it wasn't just the
Beatles Silent Spring.

1035
00:41:31,989 --> 00:41:33,609
And I noticed
the other day

1036
00:41:33,609 --> 00:41:34,749
that someone has published

1037
00:41:34,749 --> 00:41:38,049
a book called The Silent
Spring Revolution.

1038
00:41:38,049 --> 00:41:40,210
And it talks
about Kennedy and

1039
00:41:40,210 --> 00:41:41,709
Rachel Carson and a

1040
00:41:41,709 --> 00:41:42,985
lot of things
that happened.

1041
00:41:42,985 --> 00:41:45,940
Martin Luther King was
part of that shift.

1042
00:41:45,940 --> 00:41:47,995
All of those things
that happened with

1043
00:41:47,995 --> 00:41:51,280
62.72 established

1044
00:41:51,280 --> 00:41:52,449
the whole feminist
movement,

1045
00:41:52,449 --> 00:41:54,144
established a
whole new set

1046
00:41:54,144 --> 00:41:57,294
of values and began.

1047
00:41:57,294 --> 00:42:01,420
What I'm suggesting
is a new culture.

1048
00:42:01,420 --> 00:42:03,519
So one of the things

1049
00:42:03,519 --> 00:42:04,479
that happened
in that time,

1050
00:42:04,479 --> 00:42:07,070
it's the original
Limits to Growth.

1051
00:42:07,470 --> 00:42:10,869
The Limits to Growth
is saying that the

1052
00:42:10,869 --> 00:42:14,004
global economy,
industrial economy,

1053
00:42:14,004 --> 00:42:15,729
this was mostly the US,

1054
00:42:15,729 --> 00:42:17,710
but it was the
industrial economy

1055
00:42:17,710 --> 00:42:20,140
is going through
this structure.

1056
00:42:20,140 --> 00:42:22,914
And the one line
is the year 2000.

1057
00:42:22,914 --> 00:42:26,064
The first one, the
second one is the now.

1058
00:42:26,064 --> 00:42:28,449
That's the
original printout

1059
00:42:28,449 --> 00:42:29,874
from the original book.

1060
00:42:29,874 --> 00:42:33,159
And then in the later
but the 90s version,

1061
00:42:33,159 --> 00:42:34,929
this is later printed out.

1062
00:42:34,929 --> 00:42:37,239
So this is much more

1063
00:42:37,239 --> 00:42:39,610
readable for folks
who don't like

1064
00:42:39,610 --> 00:42:41,019
to file a little
letters across

1065
00:42:41,019 --> 00:42:44,425
the screen as Wayne and
I have established.

1066
00:42:44,425 --> 00:42:46,555
It's, yeah,
it's happening.

1067
00:42:46,555 --> 00:42:48,685
Now when I got to
play with Dynamo

1068
00:42:48,685 --> 00:42:51,114
and I got to play
with the world model.

1069
00:42:51,114 --> 00:42:52,914
We did everything
we could.

1070
00:42:52,914 --> 00:42:54,399
I don't know if you
guys have done this to

1071
00:42:54,399 --> 00:42:56,020
expand and play with

1072
00:42:56,020 --> 00:42:59,485
the variables in this
and the equations.

1073
00:42:59,485 --> 00:43:01,359
We could never get this

1074
00:43:01,359 --> 00:43:04,435
bottoming out much
further out than 2050.

1075
00:43:04,435 --> 00:43:08,019
We couldn't do
it. We try even

1076
00:43:08,019 --> 00:43:10,330
with the new the
new information

1077
00:43:10,330 --> 00:43:11,785
that we had in
the eighties,

1078
00:43:11,785 --> 00:43:13,089
we weren't able to.

1079
00:43:13,089 --> 00:43:15,954
So I'm looking at this
thing and I'm gone.

1080
00:43:15,954 --> 00:43:18,414
Yeah, that's interesting.

1081
00:43:18,414 --> 00:43:19,779
And then I went and

1082
00:43:19,779 --> 00:43:20,994
I looked at the history of

1083
00:43:20,994 --> 00:43:22,914
all the empires
in the world

1084
00:43:22,914 --> 00:43:26,269
into China, et cetera.

1085
00:43:26,280 --> 00:43:28,644
I'll follow that pattern.

1086
00:43:28,644 --> 00:43:29,619
Sorry to interrupt.

1087
00:43:29,619 --> 00:43:31,119
What what line
were you talking

1088
00:43:31,119 --> 00:43:33,920
about that you couldn't
get to duplicate?

1089
00:43:34,040 --> 00:43:38,085
I can see where everything
bottoms out here.

1090
00:43:38,085 --> 00:43:40,019
Around about 20:50.

1091
00:43:40,019 --> 00:43:41,549
I can't get that

1092
00:43:41,549 --> 00:43:43,785
bottoming out to
go any further,

1093
00:43:43,785 --> 00:43:46,440
much further
out then 2050,

1094
00:43:46,440 --> 00:43:50,200
when I play with the
variables that I see.

1095
00:43:50,540 --> 00:43:54,119
So what I learned
was as I started

1096
00:43:54,119 --> 00:43:57,300
looking at I'm
tires over history,

1097
00:43:57,300 --> 00:43:59,160
they all do the
same thing.

1098
00:43:59,160 --> 00:44:02,835
They all follow
essentially the same.

1099
00:44:02,835 --> 00:44:04,784
Falling apart.

1100
00:44:04,784 --> 00:44:07,230
They exceed the capacity,

1101
00:44:07,230 --> 00:44:09,179
and they fall
out, fall apart.

1102
00:44:09,179 --> 00:44:10,634
And what remains?

1103
00:44:10,634 --> 00:44:14,174
Gardening villages
and hunter-gatherers.

1104
00:44:14,174 --> 00:44:17,169
Isn't that interesting?

1105
00:44:17,490 --> 00:44:19,749
So then I started saying,

1106
00:44:19,749 --> 00:44:21,580
okay, so why is it that

1107
00:44:21,580 --> 00:44:23,845
empire will choose,
do those things?

1108
00:44:23,845 --> 00:44:26,739
And so I came up with
comparing values.

1109
00:44:26,739 --> 00:44:29,995
I went through the values

1110
00:44:29,995 --> 00:44:33,009
of those long-term
sustained cultures,

1111
00:44:33,009 --> 00:44:34,509
most of which
are gardening,

1112
00:44:34,509 --> 00:44:36,295
a few of which are
hunting, gathering.

1113
00:44:36,295 --> 00:44:37,899
And I saw that there were

1114
00:44:37,899 --> 00:44:40,480
some significant
differences in values.

1115
00:44:40,480 --> 00:44:43,270
So now when I'm working
with someone on

1116
00:44:43,270 --> 00:44:46,705
how do we get where we
are going, want to go?

1117
00:44:46,705 --> 00:44:47,274
I go.

1118
00:44:47,274 --> 00:44:48,940
Okay, look at your values.

1119
00:44:48,940 --> 00:44:50,964
Are they more in
alignment with

1120
00:44:50,964 --> 00:44:53,785
the ones that tend
to fall apart?

1121
00:44:53,785 --> 00:44:55,990
Or are they more in
alignment with the ones

1122
00:44:55,990 --> 00:44:58,690
that tend to be sustained?

1123
00:44:58,690 --> 00:45:01,150
Because everything
else will

1124
00:45:01,150 --> 00:45:03,550
grow out of those
values and assumptions.

1125
00:45:03,550 --> 00:45:06,445
So this is a verbal
model that we use

1126
00:45:06,445 --> 00:45:10,509
and people modify it
to meet their needs.

1127
00:45:10,509 --> 00:45:12,460
But what are our values?

1128
00:45:12,460 --> 00:45:14,410
What are we aiming
to accomplish here?

1129
00:45:14,410 --> 00:45:16,569
Are we aiming to get
as much as we can,

1130
00:45:16,569 --> 00:45:17,799
however we can get it?

1131
00:45:17,799 --> 00:45:20,395
Or are we aiming to
become something that

1132
00:45:20,395 --> 00:45:22,420
our grandchildren and
our great-grandchildren

1133
00:45:22,420 --> 00:45:24,459
enter whatever
could enjoy it.

1134
00:45:24,459 --> 00:45:26,799
And I'm intrigued
because when I look

1135
00:45:26,799 --> 00:45:29,289
at family held
corporations,

1136
00:45:29,289 --> 00:45:30,520
they tend to follow

1137
00:45:30,520 --> 00:45:33,639
the sustainable
values rather

1138
00:45:33,639 --> 00:45:35,394
than the empire values.

1139
00:45:35,394 --> 00:45:39,654
But when I look at SEC,

1140
00:45:39,654 --> 00:45:42,189
tract stock trading
corporations,

1141
00:45:42,189 --> 00:45:43,930
I see something
else entirely.

1142
00:45:43,930 --> 00:45:45,954
And then I learned
something.

1143
00:45:45,954 --> 00:45:48,160
Somewhere in the 70s.

1144
00:45:48,160 --> 00:45:49,749
A rule was put into

1145
00:45:49,749 --> 00:45:51,834
the Securities
Exchange Commission

1146
00:45:51,834 --> 00:45:54,415
that said it was

1147
00:45:54,415 --> 00:45:59,590
the number one requirement
of any corporation

1148
00:45:59,590 --> 00:46:02,469
selling stocks to maximize

1149
00:46:02,469 --> 00:46:03,609
their dividends for

1150
00:46:03,609 --> 00:46:06,009
their shareholders,
period.

1151
00:46:06,009 --> 00:46:11,199
Nothing else was,
it was an issue.

1152
00:46:11,199 --> 00:46:14,440
The quality of
the products

1153
00:46:14,440 --> 00:46:15,700
they happiness to

1154
00:46:15,700 --> 00:46:16,914
the consumers
didn't matter.

1155
00:46:16,914 --> 00:46:18,670
Their job was to maximize

1156
00:46:18,670 --> 00:46:20,365
the dividends for
the shareholders.

1157
00:46:20,365 --> 00:46:22,269
And so what happened

1158
00:46:22,269 --> 00:46:24,099
about five years
ago as people

1159
00:46:24,099 --> 00:46:25,900
started inventing
something called the

1160
00:46:25,900 --> 00:46:27,999
B Corp and the beak,

1161
00:46:27,999 --> 00:46:29,110
or the Beat Company.

1162
00:46:29,110 --> 00:46:30,400
That's enough to
be a corporation

1163
00:46:30,400 --> 00:46:31,555
or a partnership,

1164
00:46:31,555 --> 00:46:32,995
a limited
liability company,

1165
00:46:32,995 --> 00:46:35,755
any kind of company
where they said,

1166
00:46:35,755 --> 00:46:39,879
let's include the
planet and the people,

1167
00:46:39,879 --> 00:46:41,769
as well as profits.

1168
00:46:41,769 --> 00:46:43,689
The company now

1169
00:46:43,689 --> 00:46:45,699
requires three
annual reports.

1170
00:46:45,699 --> 00:46:47,229
You have to
demonstrate how

1171
00:46:47,229 --> 00:46:49,494
you've affected
the planet,

1172
00:46:49,494 --> 00:46:50,890
has affected the people

1173
00:46:50,890 --> 00:46:52,779
and what your profits are.

1174
00:46:52,779 --> 00:46:56,364
But you're allowed
to not maximize

1175
00:46:56,364 --> 00:46:58,210
the dividends to
the shareholders

1176
00:46:58,210 --> 00:47:00,130
because you are maximizing

1177
00:47:00,130 --> 00:47:01,989
these other
things as well.

1178
00:47:01,989 --> 00:47:06,159
Hey, so I'm fascinated to

1179
00:47:06,159 --> 00:47:07,315
see that there are two

1180
00:47:07,315 --> 00:47:10,045
entirely different
sets of values.

1181
00:47:10,045 --> 00:47:12,249
So then I started
looking at

1182
00:47:12,249 --> 00:47:15,744
this graph we've looked
at before and go,

1183
00:47:15,744 --> 00:47:18,610
okay, So the empire
culture appears to have

1184
00:47:18,610 --> 00:47:21,835
run from about
4,000 to about now.

1185
00:47:21,835 --> 00:47:23,859
There is an ending of

1186
00:47:23,859 --> 00:47:26,185
the empire
culture 2050 on,

1187
00:47:26,185 --> 00:47:28,330
you know, on limits to
growth if you will.

1188
00:47:28,330 --> 00:47:31,750
And so then something

1189
00:47:31,750 --> 00:47:34,885
else is a merging and
that's the green line.

1190
00:47:34,885 --> 00:47:36,715
We don't know what it is.

1191
00:47:36,715 --> 00:47:37,600
I don't know.

1192
00:47:37,600 --> 00:47:40,779
Can you read the
word on that graph?

1193
00:47:40,779 --> 00:47:42,640
Not necessarily.

1194
00:47:42,640 --> 00:47:43,134
Okay.

1195
00:47:43,134 --> 00:47:45,999
So this is a summary of

1196
00:47:45,999 --> 00:47:50,124
that long list of
values that might be,

1197
00:47:50,124 --> 00:47:53,289
that seemed to be
defining that green line.

1198
00:47:53,289 --> 00:47:57,069
Okay? So acceptance
of others,

1199
00:47:57,069 --> 00:48:00,069
recognizing the inherent
worth and dignity of

1200
00:48:00,069 --> 00:48:01,615
not just other
human beings

1201
00:48:01,615 --> 00:48:02,949
are not just whatever,

1202
00:48:02,949 --> 00:48:05,860
but all beings, sentient
beings and fuel

1203
00:48:05,860 --> 00:48:07,570
seeking for truth and

1204
00:48:07,570 --> 00:48:10,255
meaning individually
and collectively.

1205
00:48:10,255 --> 00:48:12,564
Using democratic
processes,

1206
00:48:12,564 --> 00:48:15,505
either consensus
or majority.

1207
00:48:15,505 --> 00:48:18,609
Use a focusing on the
idea that we're part of

1208
00:48:18,609 --> 00:48:20,020
a global community in

1209
00:48:20,020 --> 00:48:23,140
this interconnected
web of beingness.

1210
00:48:23,140 --> 00:48:26,110
And singing and aiming

1211
00:48:26,110 --> 00:48:29,454
for equity and compassion
through to justice.

1212
00:48:29,454 --> 00:48:33,430
So these values,
these ideas,

1213
00:48:33,430 --> 00:48:37,180
these principles seem
to be the summary,

1214
00:48:37,180 --> 00:48:38,874
if you will, of

1215
00:48:38,874 --> 00:48:41,245
the nature of this
emerging culture.

1216
00:48:41,245 --> 00:48:44,125
And when I present
this to folks,

1217
00:48:44,125 --> 00:48:46,524
some people recognize that

1218
00:48:46,524 --> 00:48:48,655
these also happened to be

1219
00:48:48,655 --> 00:48:50,845
the principles that are

1220
00:48:50,845 --> 00:48:52,524
the guiding principles for

1221
00:48:52,524 --> 00:48:56,139
Unitarian universalist
congregations,

1222
00:48:56,139 --> 00:49:00,385
which were formed in 1965.

1223
00:49:00,385 --> 00:49:01,719
The outer ones and

1224
00:49:01,719 --> 00:49:05,035
the inner one was
added in 1985.

1225
00:49:05,035 --> 00:49:07,359
So I was fascinated that

1226
00:49:07,359 --> 00:49:09,339
my summary of the one of

1227
00:49:09,339 --> 00:49:13,059
the sustainable values was

1228
00:49:13,059 --> 00:49:17,450
overlapped with
the UU Principles.

1229
00:49:17,610 --> 00:49:21,925
So I said I'd talk
about media. Again.

1230
00:49:21,925 --> 00:49:24,640
This is Simon Muller
tore his paper and

1231
00:49:24,640 --> 00:49:27,850
70 to the time-frame
of emergence.

1232
00:49:27,850 --> 00:49:30,984
And it's basically
75 years which

1233
00:49:30,984 --> 00:49:32,979
overlaps with Thomas
Kuhn's notion

1234
00:49:32,979 --> 00:49:35,005
of The Structure of
Scientific Revolutions.

1235
00:49:35,005 --> 00:49:36,535
It takes 75 years.

1236
00:49:36,535 --> 00:49:37,959
And for him it's,

1237
00:49:37,959 --> 00:49:39,519
the old guard
has died out and

1238
00:49:39,519 --> 00:49:41,289
then you're just
taking over.

1239
00:49:41,289 --> 00:49:43,644
But with military,
you can see it

1240
00:49:43,644 --> 00:49:46,989
in the ways that people
are talking about it.

1241
00:49:46,989 --> 00:49:49,555
Who's talking about,
who's writing about it?

1242
00:49:49,555 --> 00:49:51,459
So back here around zero,

1243
00:49:51,459 --> 00:49:52,570
that one line that you

1244
00:49:52,570 --> 00:49:56,110
can't really have,
it sends events.

1245
00:49:56,110 --> 00:49:58,480
Okay, See that one
that says events,

1246
00:49:58,480 --> 00:49:59,709
I'm using my finger,

1247
00:49:59,709 --> 00:50:00,954
not that the cursor,

1248
00:50:00,954 --> 00:50:04,370
this line here
that says events,

1249
00:50:04,650 --> 00:50:08,529
this line here that
says literature.

1250
00:50:08,529 --> 00:50:10,960
I use a lot because in

1251
00:50:10,960 --> 00:50:14,440
his paper, his
original paper,

1252
00:50:14,440 --> 00:50:16,135
he defines which forms

1253
00:50:16,135 --> 00:50:19,270
of literature are saying

1254
00:50:19,270 --> 00:50:21,325
what went back here at

1255
00:50:21,325 --> 00:50:22,960
zero and literature just

1256
00:50:22,960 --> 00:50:24,639
coming up on the curve.

1257
00:50:24,639 --> 00:50:29,199
You're gonna get shared
private documents.

1258
00:50:29,199 --> 00:50:30,940
Okay. I'm sending letters,

1259
00:50:30,940 --> 00:50:34,165
I'm sending emails
people use to

1260
00:50:34,165 --> 00:50:35,980
mimeograph things
and send them out

1261
00:50:35,980 --> 00:50:37,765
to their friends way
back when mulch,

1262
00:50:37,765 --> 00:50:40,090
I wrote this and
that sort of thing.

1263
00:50:40,090 --> 00:50:41,904
So that's the beginning.

1264
00:50:41,904 --> 00:50:45,505
Then the next level
is interestingly,

1265
00:50:45,505 --> 00:50:47,185
science fiction

1266
00:50:47,185 --> 00:50:50,814
stories in science
fiction magazines

1267
00:50:50,814 --> 00:50:53,124
and the shorts and

1268
00:50:53,124 --> 00:50:54,400
popular scientific

1269
00:50:54,400 --> 00:50:56,544
journals is the
next level.

1270
00:50:56,544 --> 00:50:58,600
And so then the
next one after

1271
00:50:58,600 --> 00:51:00,910
that is science
fiction books.

1272
00:51:00,910 --> 00:51:02,349
And then the
next one after

1273
00:51:02,349 --> 00:51:03,969
that is stories in

1274
00:51:03,969 --> 00:51:08,510
other journals like
The New Yorker.

1275
00:51:09,230 --> 00:51:11,714
Then we're
starting to break

1276
00:51:11,714 --> 00:51:14,865
into the more
academic literature.

1277
00:51:14,865 --> 00:51:17,520
And then we're
starting to break into

1278
00:51:17,520 --> 00:51:21,479
the the nation places

1279
00:51:21,479 --> 00:51:23,670
like that if we're
talking literature.

1280
00:51:23,670 --> 00:51:26,790
And so one of the
things that I have done

1281
00:51:26,790 --> 00:51:28,079
is I've said when it hits

1282
00:51:28,079 --> 00:51:31,029
the women's magazines,
it's normal.

1283
00:51:32,630 --> 00:51:35,489
So when meditation hit

1284
00:51:35,489 --> 00:51:38,789
the women's magazines
in the nineties,

1285
00:51:38,789 --> 00:51:41,970
that meant meditation
as part of the culture.

1286
00:51:41,970 --> 00:51:45,300
Yeah, Yoga hit the
women's magazines

1287
00:51:45,300 --> 00:51:46,934
about 10:15 years ago.

1288
00:51:46,934 --> 00:51:49,500
So that's one of
my indicators.

1289
00:51:49,500 --> 00:51:51,165
Where are we
in the values?

1290
00:51:51,165 --> 00:51:53,879
Alright, so then you can
see the formation of

1291
00:51:53,879 --> 00:51:55,230
organizations that are

1292
00:51:55,230 --> 00:51:57,404
supporting this with it.

1293
00:51:57,404 --> 00:51:58,889
And then the beginning

1294
00:51:58,889 --> 00:52:00,570
of the advocacy groups.

1295
00:52:00,570 --> 00:52:01,830
And finally they begin to

1296
00:52:01,830 --> 00:52:03,689
get some
government action.

1297
00:52:03,689 --> 00:52:06,285
And then the executive
enforcement.

1298
00:52:06,285 --> 00:52:07,890
So at the beginning,

1299
00:52:07,890 --> 00:52:09,630
it's not possible
at the end of

1300
00:52:09,630 --> 00:52:11,370
the 75 years,
this is normal.

1301
00:52:11,370 --> 00:52:12,870
So these things
are falling off

1302
00:52:12,870 --> 00:52:15,239
because we don't need
to do that anymore.

1303
00:52:15,239 --> 00:52:18,074
It's normal, it's woven
into the culture.

1304
00:52:18,074 --> 00:52:21,059
Well, 75 years.

1305
00:52:21,059 --> 00:52:25,500
Now, 65 to 40.

1306
00:52:25,500 --> 00:52:28,469
That's 75 years.

1307
00:52:28,469 --> 00:52:31,770
So back to my green line.

1308
00:52:31,770 --> 00:52:34,199
We are, and I

1309
00:52:34,199 --> 00:52:37,860
see in all likelihood
the values that

1310
00:52:37,860 --> 00:52:40,724
were emerging and 65 to 75

1311
00:52:40,724 --> 00:52:43,574
are becoming normal,

1312
00:52:43,574 --> 00:52:46,139
at least in some
places on the planet.

1313
00:52:46,139 --> 00:52:48,164
And that brings up
one other piece.

1314
00:52:48,164 --> 00:52:51,705
I no longer do
global forecasting.

1315
00:52:51,705 --> 00:52:55,785
Because about
20:15 years ago,

1316
00:52:55,785 --> 00:52:57,149
every time I would do

1317
00:52:57,149 --> 00:52:59,445
scenarios for
global forecasting,

1318
00:52:59,445 --> 00:53:01,440
I would be able
to find a spot on

1319
00:53:01,440 --> 00:53:04,454
the planet that was
doing exactly that.

1320
00:53:04,454 --> 00:53:07,274
Now I say, just choose,

1321
00:53:07,274 --> 00:53:10,514
choose the place that
you want to be like.

1322
00:53:10,514 --> 00:53:13,230
Because that's, and then

1323
00:53:13,230 --> 00:53:16,510
figure out how they
got there and do that.

1324
00:53:17,810 --> 00:53:19,500
Alright.

1325
00:53:19,500 --> 00:53:22,740
So in that development
of the green line,

1326
00:53:22,740 --> 00:53:24,930
that new cultural
framework,

1327
00:53:24,930 --> 00:53:27,719
we're seeing
technologies that

1328
00:53:27,719 --> 00:53:29,099
maximize household and

1329
00:53:29,099 --> 00:53:31,289
community sustainable
independents.

1330
00:53:31,289 --> 00:53:33,359
We're seeing the
gardening village again.

1331
00:53:33,359 --> 00:53:35,250
We're seeing
social structures

1332
00:53:35,250 --> 00:53:38,054
that support
developmental processes,

1333
00:53:38,054 --> 00:53:39,165
inner processes,

1334
00:53:39,165 --> 00:53:42,345
as well as collective
processes.

1335
00:53:42,345 --> 00:53:44,384
And we're seeing
our planning

1336
00:53:44,384 --> 00:53:47,100
shifting from based
on maximizing

1337
00:53:47,100 --> 00:53:49,004
our exploitation
of resources

1338
00:53:49,004 --> 00:53:51,749
to supporting
ecosystem dynamics.

1339
00:53:51,749 --> 00:53:54,494
And we began to see
that we're seeing

1340
00:53:54,494 --> 00:53:56,489
a community
capitalism rather

1341
00:53:56,489 --> 00:53:58,759
than corporate capitalism.
By that I mean.

1342
00:53:58,759 --> 00:54:01,809
Adam Smith's notion of
an economy rather than

1343
00:54:01,809 --> 00:54:03,639
the SEC's notion
of it covered

1344
00:54:03,639 --> 00:54:06,130
the Federal Reserve
notion of an economy.

1345
00:54:06,130 --> 00:54:09,879
Then we see a
way of achieving

1346
00:54:09,879 --> 00:54:11,229
decisions that
are based on

1347
00:54:11,229 --> 00:54:14,020
small group dialogue
rather than debate,

1348
00:54:14,020 --> 00:54:16,329
because debates says,
we're fighting.

1349
00:54:16,329 --> 00:54:18,309
And dialogue says
we can create

1350
00:54:18,309 --> 00:54:19,389
something entirely

1351
00:54:19,389 --> 00:54:21,534
new out of our
indirection.

1352
00:54:21,534 --> 00:54:26,244
Those seem to be
there ways that,

1353
00:54:26,244 --> 00:54:29,620
that green line is
coming into being.

1354
00:54:29,620 --> 00:54:31,650
I'll give you one example

1355
00:54:31,650 --> 00:54:35,450
of traditional
economic structure.

1356
00:54:36,600 --> 00:54:39,565
In anthropology
and economy

1357
00:54:39,565 --> 00:54:40,975
is simply the system,

1358
00:54:40,975 --> 00:54:42,520
the production
and distribution

1359
00:54:42,520 --> 00:54:44,690
of goods and services.

1360
00:54:44,880 --> 00:54:50,874
On the Adam Smith
standard model over here,

1361
00:54:50,874 --> 00:54:54,470
we have what's actually
happening over here.

1362
00:54:55,860 --> 00:54:59,755
And then that
leads to that.

1363
00:54:59,755 --> 00:55:02,065
And what is emerging are

1364
00:55:02,065 --> 00:55:06,069
very different kinds
of models of economy,

1365
00:55:06,069 --> 00:55:08,845
which I think
is marvellous.

1366
00:55:08,845 --> 00:55:11,109
This one on the left is

1367
00:55:11,109 --> 00:55:13,869
just kind of a standard
forecasting one,

1368
00:55:13,869 --> 00:55:16,299
but this one is put up by

1369
00:55:16,299 --> 00:55:18,219
the post Roth
Institute and

1370
00:55:18,219 --> 00:55:20,470
there's marvelous
TED Talk on

1371
00:55:20,470 --> 00:55:24,880
the doughnut economy
in Postgres foot up by

1372
00:55:24,880 --> 00:55:26,800
the post growth
Institute and they have

1373
00:55:26,800 --> 00:55:28,360
a website if
you're interested

1374
00:55:28,360 --> 00:55:29,860
in seeing what
they're doing.

1375
00:55:29,860 --> 00:55:32,200
Because they're saying, if

1376
00:55:32,200 --> 00:55:34,930
we're not going to
have this happen,

1377
00:55:34,930 --> 00:55:36,370
we have to stop trying to

1378
00:55:36,370 --> 00:55:39,160
grow their can't model

1379
00:55:39,160 --> 00:55:41,240
for how we can do that.

1380
00:55:41,760 --> 00:55:45,894
We're going through
this process right now.

1381
00:55:45,894 --> 00:55:48,084
Empire culture has failed.

1382
00:55:48,084 --> 00:55:50,394
Some new culture is
trying to happen.

1383
00:55:50,394 --> 00:55:51,579
We don't know what it is.

1384
00:55:51,579 --> 00:55:54,085
Hopefully it'll
be sustained.

1385
00:55:54,085 --> 00:55:56,860
And that is the end

1386
00:55:56,860 --> 00:55:59,140
of what I had to say here.

1387
00:55:59,140 --> 00:56:02,155
And I'll go back and
put the outer reach

1388
00:56:02,155 --> 00:56:04,764
me stuff up. Thank you.

1389
00:56:04,764 --> 00:56:05,889
That's very good.

1390
00:56:05,889 --> 00:56:07,150
Thank you.

1391
00:56:07,150 --> 00:56:09,310
That's been very,
very interesting

1392
00:56:09,310 --> 00:56:12,100
and not what I think
about all the time,

1393
00:56:12,100 --> 00:56:14,659
although it looks
like I should be.

1394
00:56:15,600 --> 00:56:18,609
Thank you. It was it was

1395
00:56:18,609 --> 00:56:21,100
fun to put this
together because

1396
00:56:21,100 --> 00:56:23,710
it's kind of
going back and

1397
00:56:23,710 --> 00:56:25,119
pulling a whole series

1398
00:56:25,119 --> 00:56:27,649
of things into one spot.

1399
00:56:27,870 --> 00:56:29,920
I'd like to encourage

1400
00:56:29,920 --> 00:56:31,480
people to ask a question,

1401
00:56:31,480 --> 00:56:33,340
but don't ask a question
that's going to take

1402
00:56:33,340 --> 00:56:34,750
15 min to answer

1403
00:56:34,750 --> 00:56:36,009
because we kinda
have limited time,

1404
00:56:36,009 --> 00:56:37,149
but feel free
to jump in with

1405
00:56:37,149 --> 00:56:39,100
a question or a
comment or whatever.

1406
00:56:39,100 --> 00:56:40,449
And then a few
minutes I'll turn

1407
00:56:40,449 --> 00:56:41,890
the recorder off
and we'll go into

1408
00:56:41,890 --> 00:56:43,180
super informal mode for

1409
00:56:43,180 --> 00:56:45,860
those who have a
few extra minutes.

1410
00:56:47,420 --> 00:56:49,619
I have a question, Ruth.

1411
00:56:49,619 --> 00:56:51,179
So I've actually
been thinking

1412
00:56:51,179 --> 00:56:52,919
about this point
that you made about

1413
00:56:52,919 --> 00:56:54,929
the consciousness kind of

1414
00:56:54,929 --> 00:56:56,550
growth that happened
or the explosion

1415
00:56:56,550 --> 00:56:57,809
that happened
in the sixties.

1416
00:56:57,809 --> 00:56:59,339
And I've been
thinking lately about

1417
00:56:59,339 --> 00:57:01,169
how the consumer economy

1418
00:57:01,169 --> 00:57:02,459
that we've got is

1419
00:57:02,459 --> 00:57:05,399
basically in place to
distract us from that.

1420
00:57:05,399 --> 00:57:07,049
A lot of people think

1421
00:57:07,049 --> 00:57:09,224
that the consumer
economy is

1422
00:57:09,224 --> 00:57:12,030
the natural outgrowth of

1423
00:57:12,030 --> 00:57:15,690
what happened with Madison
Avenue in the 50s.

1424
00:57:15,690 --> 00:57:19,035
And an economic
assumption that says,

1425
00:57:19,035 --> 00:57:20,370
we want to maximize

1426
00:57:20,370 --> 00:57:23,340
sales consumerism in order

1427
00:57:23,340 --> 00:57:26,340
to keep the
economy growing.

1428
00:57:26,340 --> 00:57:28,695
Keeping the
economy growing is

1429
00:57:28,695 --> 00:57:31,509
the most distal
destructive concept

1430
00:57:31,509 --> 00:57:33,234
in our world today.

1431
00:57:33,234 --> 00:57:34,555
Frankly.

1432
00:57:34,555 --> 00:57:38,380
So what we have now
is a world where

1433
00:57:38,380 --> 00:57:40,510
when what used to be

1434
00:57:40,510 --> 00:57:43,239
shared by five or
six people or more,

1435
00:57:43,239 --> 00:57:46,090
each individual person has

1436
00:57:46,090 --> 00:57:48,640
all those things,
washing machines, cars,

1437
00:57:48,640 --> 00:57:51,339
et cetera, that would
have been shared by

1438
00:57:51,339 --> 00:57:53,439
many people before just

1439
00:57:53,439 --> 00:57:55,105
to keep the
economy growing.

1440
00:57:55,105 --> 00:57:57,970
So the other piece
of it is that

1441
00:57:57,970 --> 00:58:01,929
some values
assumptions in an,

1442
00:58:01,929 --> 00:58:03,940
in a situation
that says someone

1443
00:58:03,940 --> 00:58:04,779
has to be in charge

1444
00:58:04,779 --> 00:58:06,399
and everyone else follows.

1445
00:58:06,399 --> 00:58:09,985
If I can keep people
consuming stuff,

1446
00:58:09,985 --> 00:58:11,770
if I can keep
them concerned

1447
00:58:11,770 --> 00:58:13,240
about what I'm assuming,

1448
00:58:13,240 --> 00:58:14,049
they're not going to pay

1449
00:58:14,049 --> 00:58:15,220
attention to
what I'm doing

1450
00:58:15,220 --> 00:58:18,415
up here. Thank you.

1451
00:58:18,415 --> 00:58:21,159
Rick, type the word
Veblen in there.

1452
00:58:21,159 --> 00:58:22,930
Do you want to explain
why Veblen should be

1453
00:58:22,930 --> 00:58:25,209
looked at Rick
Dublin? Yes.

1454
00:58:25,209 --> 00:58:26,979
Oh my goodness, good.

1455
00:58:26,979 --> 00:58:29,934
So one of my
favorite books is

1456
00:58:29,934 --> 00:58:33,189
the worldly philosophers
by Heilbroner.

1457
00:58:33,189 --> 00:58:35,455
And he gives you a very,

1458
00:58:35,455 --> 00:58:37,990
very marvelous
explanation of

1459
00:58:37,990 --> 00:58:40,120
what each of the
models is that

1460
00:58:40,120 --> 00:58:42,460
each of the economists
developed and

1461
00:58:42,460 --> 00:58:43,749
how they fed on each other

1462
00:58:43,749 --> 00:58:45,444
and led to where
we are today.

1463
00:58:45,444 --> 00:58:48,399
Glands model is absolutely

1464
00:58:48,399 --> 00:58:49,779
right on in that way.

1465
00:58:49,779 --> 00:58:52,209
But again, he's not doing

1466
00:58:52,209 --> 00:58:52,539
it from

1467
00:58:52,539 --> 00:58:54,564
a cultural anthropological
point of view.

1468
00:58:54,564 --> 00:58:55,869
And he's doing it within

1469
00:58:55,869 --> 00:58:57,609
the framework of this,

1470
00:58:57,609 --> 00:59:00,109
what I call
empire culture.

1471
00:59:02,310 --> 00:59:04,959
You have conspicuous
consumption

1472
00:59:04,959 --> 00:59:06,339
goes with everything
else we've

1473
00:59:06,339 --> 00:59:10,809
been saying that it's
yeah, it's about 11.

1474
00:59:10,809 --> 00:59:13,239
I want to be like
the guy in charge.

1475
00:59:13,239 --> 00:59:15,354
I want to look like
the guy in charge.

1476
00:59:15,354 --> 00:59:17,245
I have to be the
guy in charge.

1477
00:59:17,245 --> 00:59:20,529
And conspicuous
consumption says, I miss.

1478
00:59:20,529 --> 00:59:21,639
On one of them.

1479
00:59:21,639 --> 00:59:23,630
Are Emily.

1480
00:59:26,690 --> 00:59:28,959
Yeah.

1481
00:59:29,000 --> 00:59:31,245
But you think
that the culture

1482
00:59:31,245 --> 00:59:32,834
is shifting even though

1483
00:59:32,834 --> 00:59:34,140
the dominant culture

1484
00:59:34,140 --> 00:59:37,019
remains the
consumption culture.

1485
00:59:37,019 --> 00:59:40,229
Yeah, it's
shifting because

1486
00:59:40,229 --> 00:59:43,059
it had to, COVID
actually helped.

1487
00:59:43,070 --> 00:59:46,665
That's an awful thing
to say, but it's true.

1488
00:59:46,665 --> 00:59:48,689
When I travel
around the world,

1489
00:59:48,689 --> 00:59:49,770
I go to an airport.

1490
00:59:49,770 --> 00:59:50,670
I could be anywhere in

1491
00:59:50,670 --> 00:59:51,660
the world and
that airport,

1492
00:59:51,660 --> 00:59:52,890
the language is different.

1493
00:59:52,890 --> 00:59:55,050
There might be some
differences in

1494
00:59:55,050 --> 00:59:57,420
the in the specifics
being sold.

1495
00:59:57,420 --> 00:59:58,919
But basically I'm I'm

1496
00:59:58,919 --> 01:00:00,254
in anywhere in the world.

1497
01:00:00,254 --> 01:00:01,799
You go into downtown.

1498
01:00:01,799 --> 01:00:03,029
They all look the same.

1499
01:00:03,029 --> 01:00:05,609
The Americanization
of the world,

1500
01:00:05,609 --> 01:00:06,929
did you watch New Year's?

1501
01:00:06,929 --> 01:00:07,860
Oh my goodness, the

1502
01:00:07,860 --> 01:00:09,890
Americanization
of the world.

1503
01:00:09,890 --> 01:00:12,640
Freeways and
everywhere you look.

1504
01:00:12,640 --> 01:00:15,535
So we have that,

1505
01:00:15,535 --> 01:00:18,504
but we also have
people going,

1506
01:00:18,504 --> 01:00:19,810
wait a minute, that didn't

1507
01:00:19,810 --> 01:00:21,564
work, that isn't working.

1508
01:00:21,564 --> 01:00:23,500
And I'm seeing

1509
01:00:23,500 --> 01:00:25,719
literally an
exponential increase

1510
01:00:25,719 --> 01:00:29,694
in indicators of that
emerging culture.

1511
01:00:29,694 --> 01:00:33,714
It was slow for 30 years,

1512
01:00:33,714 --> 01:00:36,910
but the last five
years, oh my goodness.

1513
01:00:36,910 --> 01:00:40,404
It's truly it's an
exponential growth.

1514
01:00:40,404 --> 01:00:42,099
Laura, you had
your hand up,

1515
01:00:42,099 --> 01:00:43,195
I think you wanted
to make a comment.

1516
01:00:43,195 --> 01:00:44,214
Go ahead.

1517
01:00:44,214 --> 01:00:47,620
Well, I was intrigued
by your inclusion.

1518
01:00:47,620 --> 01:00:49,314
That was science
fiction literature

1519
01:00:49,314 --> 01:00:50,799
and I seem to recall you

1520
01:00:50,799 --> 01:00:54,384
mentioned Ursula K.
Look when I did,

1521
01:00:54,384 --> 01:00:56,170
I would love to
hear a couple of

1522
01:00:56,170 --> 01:00:58,150
minutes about your
experience with

1523
01:00:58,150 --> 01:01:00,519
thigh and your
inclusion of

1524
01:01:00,519 --> 01:01:03,114
her work and your
futurist project.

1525
01:01:03,114 --> 01:01:04,390
Alright, thank you.

1526
01:01:04,390 --> 01:01:06,579
To Ursula Le Guin lived in

1527
01:01:06,579 --> 01:01:08,919
Portland and her husband

1528
01:01:08,919 --> 01:01:10,539
worked at Portland State.

1529
01:01:10,539 --> 01:01:13,179
I don't know if you
knew that her father

1530
01:01:13,179 --> 01:01:15,370
was Theodore Kroeber
at Berkeley,

1531
01:01:15,370 --> 01:01:17,530
who established the field

1532
01:01:17,530 --> 01:01:19,600
of anthropology
at Berkeley.

1533
01:01:19,600 --> 01:01:22,555
So I was really familiar
with all of that.

1534
01:01:22,555 --> 01:01:25,330
And during my break

1535
01:01:25,330 --> 01:01:26,950
from the system
science program,

1536
01:01:26,950 --> 01:01:28,660
I gave myself
a presence of

1537
01:01:28,660 --> 01:01:30,834
a week-long study
with her slip.

1538
01:01:30,834 --> 01:01:33,610
And it was beautiful
aftertaste act.

1539
01:01:33,610 --> 01:01:35,290
Oh my goodness,
it was fabulous.

1540
01:01:35,290 --> 01:01:39,129
And she opened my eyes to

1541
01:01:39,129 --> 01:01:40,779
the fact that she was

1542
01:01:40,779 --> 01:01:43,329
without meaning to just
being who she was.

1543
01:01:43,329 --> 01:01:47,980
She was following the
same framework that we

1544
01:01:47,980 --> 01:01:50,469
were in quantitative
futuring

1545
01:01:50,469 --> 01:01:53,425
in her intuitive future.

1546
01:01:53,425 --> 01:01:56,754
It was literally
the same process

1547
01:01:56,754 --> 01:01:59,709
that woke me up to
all kinds of things.

1548
01:01:59,709 --> 01:02:01,899
So I studied with her
and then we set up

1549
01:02:01,899 --> 01:02:04,525
a few writers workshops

1550
01:02:04,525 --> 01:02:06,895
over the next few years,
yes, world-building.

1551
01:02:06,895 --> 01:02:08,349
And that came out
of Portland State

1552
01:02:08,349 --> 01:02:10,705
to I've forgotten
his name.

1553
01:02:10,705 --> 01:02:12,250
The guy, the physicist at

1554
01:02:12,250 --> 01:02:14,500
Portland State has had,
had to build a world.

1555
01:02:14,500 --> 01:02:16,959
He worked with
Ursula on that one.

1556
01:02:16,959 --> 01:02:19,779
So they they did that.

1557
01:02:19,779 --> 01:02:22,330
What she and I
were working

1558
01:02:22,330 --> 01:02:25,060
on was recognizing from

1559
01:02:25,060 --> 01:02:27,069
a cultural
perspective that when

1560
01:02:27,069 --> 01:02:30,790
your fundamental cultural
assumptions change,

1561
01:02:30,790 --> 01:02:33,444
you get a whole
different world, right?

1562
01:02:33,444 --> 01:02:36,114
So left hand of
darkness, right?

1563
01:02:36,114 --> 01:02:38,440
Or the dispossessed was

1564
01:02:38,440 --> 01:02:40,360
my favorite because
she laid out,

1565
01:02:40,360 --> 01:02:42,099
okay, here's a
sustainable culture

1566
01:02:42,099 --> 01:02:44,545
and here's a gravid
all culture.

1567
01:02:44,545 --> 01:02:46,869
And lay it yeah.

1568
01:02:46,869 --> 01:02:49,915
Showed the ways in
which they affected

1569
01:02:49,915 --> 01:02:53,124
individuals and affected
their ecosystems.

1570
01:02:53,124 --> 01:02:54,879
So yeah,

1571
01:02:54,879 --> 01:02:57,249
Look, working with
ligand was fabulous.

1572
01:02:57,249 --> 01:02:58,749
And she came to Portland,

1573
01:02:58,749 --> 01:03:01,179
she got the
Kellogg's Award.

1574
01:03:01,179 --> 01:03:03,474
And she talked about
how the inner,

1575
01:03:03,474 --> 01:03:07,135
inner narrative determines
our experience.

1576
01:03:07,135 --> 01:03:08,949
What I am saying to

1577
01:03:08,949 --> 01:03:11,260
myself about what
I am seeing and

1578
01:03:11,260 --> 01:03:13,360
hearing is what I'm

1579
01:03:13,360 --> 01:03:15,610
going to experience
regardless of what's

1580
01:03:15,610 --> 01:03:17,410
going on out there that

1581
01:03:17,410 --> 01:03:20,740
contributed to my whole
mental framework,

1582
01:03:20,740 --> 01:03:23,379
cyclist, cybernetics,
vision thing that

1583
01:03:23,379 --> 01:03:24,519
I worked with when I'm

1584
01:03:24,519 --> 01:03:27,169
doing the
consciousness work.

1585
01:03:31,950 --> 01:03:34,030
Depending on how urgent

1586
01:03:34,030 --> 01:03:35,139
it is to get
another question,

1587
01:03:35,139 --> 01:03:35,649
I'm going to turn

1588
01:03:35,649 --> 01:03:36,879
the recorder
off and go into

1589
01:03:36,879 --> 01:03:38,529
the more informal
mode just

1590
01:03:38,529 --> 01:03:39,610
to put a limit on

1591
01:03:39,610 --> 01:03:41,245
the length of
the recording.

1592
01:03:41,245 --> 01:03:43,129
Thank you.