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And I'm going to
introduce Terry Bristol.

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I'll let him say more
about his background, his

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00:00:05,940 --> 00:00:08,490
slide tells you more,
as much as I know.

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And I will warn you
that Terry has warned

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me that he has

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so much material that it's

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possible he will run over.

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And I've allowed
him to do that.

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I have to leave at one
for other reasons.

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And so I will be turning

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the control over to him.

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And I've asked
him at a maximum

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to shut off

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the recording at an
hour-and-a-half.

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If people still want
to keep talking,

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that's the rooms
if they got well,

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I won't go that long
anyway. I hope not.

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I'm just giving
you a forewarning.

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So if you're wondering,
when does he ever

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going to get to
the punchline?

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He's promised me he'll get

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to the punch lines before

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the hour is up because

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I want to hear them too.

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All right. Take
it away, Terry.

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Okay. Well,
where am I here?

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Back to the beginning
here. So this

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is an extended
version of a talk I

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gave in the summer on at

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the conference
thermodynamics to 0.0,

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which is a good Europe.

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And they have
another conference.

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Anybody's interested in
that stuff is saying,

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I'm trying to write.

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Mouse is not behaving.

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They say they only
give me 20 min,

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so there you go.

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Now, what I wanna do here,

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so the basic theme here
is I'm going after

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quantum theory
and claiming

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that it's really a
participatory theory,

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which is not a new idea.

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That's, as you'll see,

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it's been around
for Wheeler,

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pushed it a lot and other

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people, but it
didn't go anywhere.

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And I think the reason
it didn't go anywhere,

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it's because of
the, you know,

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the engineer is being

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run by my mathematical
physicist,

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not engineers
first of all.

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And the other part it has

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to at the thermodynamics,

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which I think is crucial.

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So we finally get
to understand

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quantum theory
according to

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this at least
another perspective,

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if we understand it in

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terms of
participatory systems

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engineering
thermodynamic framework.

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So now what I'm
doing here,

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next slide, okay,
so I wanted to do,

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I decided it's
really centered.

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It's kind of a preamble

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for people in systems
kind of thing.

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A lot of the audience
here is systems theory.

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People like Wayne and

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I have had this dialogue
in the past about

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whether or not weather
systems theory

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should be understood
as a scientific theory

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or as an
engineering theory.

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I've been pushing
your course that it's

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a participatory
engineering theory.

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Now, one of my
reasons for that is

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the modern origin of
system theory really

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came in Engineering and

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Operations Research
and Cybernetics and

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in practice for people
to practice using

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system series system
design questions

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are not scientific
questions.

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Design questions are

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not scientific questions.

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Another theme there
is system design

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is not applied science.

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So the tendency to

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call systems of science
comes, I think,

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from the dominance of

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the mathematical
physics crowd and

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its unyielding mechanical
representation

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of both quantum theory
and thermodynamics.

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But quantum theory
properly understood,

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as I will argue,

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assures us that the
ultimate theory of

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everything that
you like will not

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be the classical
mechanical type.

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What's been missing
to get us beyond that

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is a Systems Engineering
Thermodynamics.

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And per hypothesis
of systems theory

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is a thermodynamic
theory and always has

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been engineering
thermodynamics will

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be seen to be systems
thermodynamics.

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I'm going to say that

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they're actually the same,

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so, okay.

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Second preamble.

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People have been working
in systems theory

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and thermodynamics
and what

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is energy and how
does it work,

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have unfortunately
been saddled

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with, are favored anyway,

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the Clausius
Boltzmann Gibbs

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interpretation of
thermodynamics,

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which is the bad
guy, so to speak,

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useful sometimes but not,

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not representative
of the whole.

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E.g. Schrodinger's
little book,

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What is Life goes
into the sink,

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talks about living
systems is consuming

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low entropy stuff

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and generating
high entropy.

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And overall the system
is running down.

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Resources or decline in

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energy is cleanliness is,

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comes out of the Clausius,

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the heat death world and

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everything which would be

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nice to get out of it.

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They don't seem to be
getting out of it.

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And socioeconomics,
we're familiar with

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Ehrlich's 1960
prediction in

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this population
bomb that we were

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all these
starving by 1985.

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And Vauxhall
swim continues

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that tradition emphasizing

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and resource limitations.

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Now, where does this go in

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the systems engineering

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thermodynamics program,

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which I'm trying to

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Greater foundation to

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Hermes norm in his book,

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infinite resource,

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the power of ideas
and a finite planet,

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argues that energy policy
should be based on,

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not on how much
water, air,

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soil, or silicon you have,

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but rather on what
you do with it.

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In other words,
on system design.

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So the idea is, idea,

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he's saying is the
infinite resources ideas

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and system design.

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And that also
comes out and

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William McDonald's
great book called The

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upcycled beyond
sustainability,

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designing for abundance.

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Mcdonald's has
this great thing.

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He says, sustainability
is like getting up

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every morning
and asking how

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it can be less bad.

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All actions seems to
be non, unprofitable.

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You're always losing
is to be alive.

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You're, the best thing to

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do is commit suicide
or something,

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I guess, saved the world.

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Their pupil
pushing anyway.

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Anyway, both of
them have done and

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anomer into

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this constructive
emergence model,

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which is where all
the scopes I believe.

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Okay, So I want
to start here.

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Megan says a
quantum theory.

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This has been a
problem for some time.

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Feynman regularly quoted
this famous quote.

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He says, If you think

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you understand
quantum mechanics,

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you to understand
quantum mechanics.

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And then swollen picks
this up in 2010,

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he's talking to a group of

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graduate students at

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the Perimeter Institute
and talking about

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when he and his
generation came into

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and to quantum
theory sedate

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in the 60s and 70s,

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he said we were the
previous generation

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sort of gave up on trying

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to make sense of
quantum theory.

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And we were gonna get it.

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And then he says,
and it's now

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2010 has become
rather Kafkaesque.

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Which if you don't
know that term weird,

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that we have made no
progress whatsoever.

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However, the experimentalist
will tell us

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that quantum theory is

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the most successful
theory and history.

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This is a strange to

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talk to about this stuff.

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And he goes, he

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finally we are going
through he loved

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all the philosophical
subnet. He goes.

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But you know, I don't
need to understand

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it to be able to use
it, to apply it.

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Which struck
me and that's,

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I think this actually
a real situation.

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So how can we not
understand it?

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And yet the
experimentalist can use

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it as the most successful
theory and history.

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That's kinda like, that's

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been sitting
there for years.

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So I want it first
thing I wanna do,

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I want to
distinguish between

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quantum theory and
quantum mechanics.

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Quantum theory should tell

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us about the
nature of reality.

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And that's kinda
the, the big

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question, who am
going to put it?

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Quantum mechanics is about

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particular types
of application.

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So the experimentalist can

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find versions of
quantum theory.

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Derivative, like you want

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a particle or a wave
theory or higher,

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and use one or the
other of those

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and you can apply it.

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But what is quantum

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00:08:08,510 --> 00:08:09,620
theory tell us
about the world?

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Well, the two-slit
experiment kinda captures

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that net is that
quantum theory,

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quantum reality is
ontologically ambiguous.

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World made up
of particles,

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are made up of waves.

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00:08:23,360 --> 00:08:25,879
By me say what's waiting,

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an answer of nothing.

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So anyway, observe
in one way,

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you see particle
aspect or age or

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another way you see

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00:08:32,479 --> 00:08:33,860
the wave aspect
of reality.

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And Heisenberg goes
on to say, you know,

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the experimental setup To

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00:08:38,779 --> 00:08:41,465
see particles

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00:08:41,465 --> 00:08:43,819
and experimental
setup to see waves.

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00:08:43,819 --> 00:08:44,644
These two set of

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00:08:44,644 --> 00:08:47,089
themselves are
complimentary.

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00:08:47,089 --> 00:08:50,210
Alright? So
quantum theory is

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00:08:50,210 --> 00:08:53,120
not a classical
mechanical theory.

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00:08:53,120 --> 00:08:54,949
The reading is just off

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00:08:54,949 --> 00:08:56,750
the top without
going into details

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00:08:56,750 --> 00:08:58,129
because it
interpolates two

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00:08:58,129 --> 00:09:00,844
complimentary mechanical,

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00:09:00,844 --> 00:09:02,464
a classical
mechanical series,

250
00:09:02,464 --> 00:09:04,310
Newtonian particle
three and

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00:09:04,310 --> 00:09:05,435
Maxwell's wave theory,

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00:09:05,435 --> 00:09:07,564
electromagnetic
wave theory.

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00:09:07,564 --> 00:09:10,460
But how does it

254
00:09:10,460 --> 00:09:11,720
include both a
series Quantum

255
00:09:11,720 --> 00:09:13,159
it because they're
complimentary,

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00:09:13,159 --> 00:09:14,000
just like particle and

257
00:09:14,000 --> 00:09:15,620
a wave or complimentary.

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00:09:15,620 --> 00:09:18,620
Newtonian mechanics is.

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00:09:18,620 --> 00:09:21,815
And Maxwellian mechanics
are complimentary.

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00:09:21,815 --> 00:09:23,390
So quantum theory
wants to understand

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00:09:23,390 --> 00:09:25,429
reality in a new way,

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00:09:25,429 --> 00:09:27,289
in a way that
moves us from

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00:09:27,289 --> 00:09:29,570
the passively observing
spectators of

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00:09:29,570 --> 00:09:31,969
objective reality
out there to

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00:09:31,969 --> 00:09:33,440
active participants in

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00:09:33,440 --> 00:09:36,780
an historically
developing reality.

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00:09:37,810 --> 00:09:40,910
Okay, so my
bold hypothesis

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00:09:40,910 --> 00:09:42,439
that obesity this talk

269
00:09:42,439 --> 00:09:44,630
is that quantum theory and

270
00:09:44,630 --> 00:09:45,740
quantum reality
can only be

271
00:09:45,740 --> 00:09:46,910
properly made sense of it.

272
00:09:46,910 --> 00:09:48,109
A more general post

273
00:09:48,109 --> 00:09:50,464
mechanical engineering
thermodynamics.

274
00:09:50,464 --> 00:09:53,510
Now, my limited agenda
here is not to present

275
00:09:53,510 --> 00:09:54,664
settled arguments

276
00:09:54,664 --> 00:09:56,720
detailing every
aspect of this,

277
00:09:56,720 --> 00:09:59,104
rather outline a
prospective map

278
00:09:59,104 --> 00:10:01,054
of a research program.

279
00:10:01,054 --> 00:10:03,694
Many of the
components reasoning

280
00:10:03,694 --> 00:10:05,675
will require further
elaboration.

281
00:10:05,675 --> 00:10:07,280
And that's why sometimes I

282
00:10:07,280 --> 00:10:09,245
run long is because they
tried to elaborate,

283
00:10:09,245 --> 00:10:10,805
but I'm not gonna do that.

284
00:10:10,805 --> 00:10:13,280
So that's the program.

285
00:10:13,280 --> 00:10:15,829
Popper's put forth
this idea of

286
00:10:15,829 --> 00:10:17,299
a bold hypothesis
and we'll

287
00:10:17,299 --> 00:10:19,325
learn the most from
bold hypotheses,

288
00:10:19,325 --> 00:10:20,750
not these p small things.

289
00:10:20,750 --> 00:10:22,940
So this is a
bold hypothesis.

290
00:10:22,940 --> 00:10:25,264
We emulate this
out, part one,

291
00:10:25,264 --> 00:10:27,274
I'm going to identify for

292
00:10:27,274 --> 00:10:28,490
defining
characteristics and

293
00:10:28,490 --> 00:10:29,299
quantum theories are

294
00:10:29,299 --> 00:10:30,230
all pretty
straightforward,

295
00:10:30,230 --> 00:10:32,090
participatory,
indeterminate,

296
00:10:32,090 --> 00:10:34,519
complimentary, and
non-community.

297
00:10:34,519 --> 00:10:36,379
This part two, I'm
going to develop

298
00:10:36,379 --> 00:10:37,970
the engineering
thermodynamics of

299
00:10:37,970 --> 00:10:39,875
Saudi aren't Sadi Carnot,

300
00:10:39,875 --> 00:10:41,015
just so you know
what it is.

301
00:10:41,015 --> 00:10:43,595
It's not the same as
the Clausius games.

302
00:10:43,595 --> 00:10:47,569
Thing. And then
I'm gonna point,

303
00:10:47,569 --> 00:10:49,010
it turns out that
there are four

304
00:10:49,010 --> 00:10:50,720
characteristics that
I pointed out in part

305
00:10:50,720 --> 00:10:52,309
one of quantum
theory are also

306
00:10:52,309 --> 00:10:54,020
definitive characteristic
engineering to

307
00:10:54,020 --> 00:10:56,089
read and I mix this.

308
00:10:56,089 --> 00:10:58,340
Maybe coincidentally,
I don't think so.

309
00:10:58,340 --> 00:11:00,545
But I think that's
impressive.

310
00:11:00,545 --> 00:11:02,044
My understanding anyway.

311
00:11:02,044 --> 00:11:03,230
And then part three,
I'm gonna reach

312
00:11:03,230 --> 00:11:04,520
back historically,

313
00:11:04,520 --> 00:11:07,744
the precursors or
kernels, mature ideas.

314
00:11:07,744 --> 00:11:09,890
Earlier insights
came from Higgins

315
00:11:09,890 --> 00:11:11,885
and the Ellenberger and

316
00:11:11,885 --> 00:11:14,000
Leibniz brought these
forth in his proposed

317
00:11:14,000 --> 00:11:15,169
met a paradigm shift from

318
00:11:15,169 --> 00:11:16,309
statics to dynamics,

319
00:11:16,309 --> 00:11:19,730
which is also from
science to engineering.

320
00:11:19,730 --> 00:11:21,620
So that's the agenda.

321
00:11:21,620 --> 00:11:23,675
Okay? I'm gonna
go through these.

322
00:11:23,675 --> 00:11:25,219
These are easy, I think.

323
00:11:25,219 --> 00:11:26,869
For characteristic
of quantum theory,

324
00:11:26,869 --> 00:11:28,534
quantum theory is
participant theory.

325
00:11:28,534 --> 00:11:31,250
This is why do you need
to have collapsed?

326
00:11:31,250 --> 00:11:33,079
The wave function
is because it's

327
00:11:33,079 --> 00:11:35,510
a potential theory says
it's indeterminate.

328
00:11:35,510 --> 00:11:37,880
It says the world is.

329
00:11:37,880 --> 00:11:40,370
In order to get
an actual world,

330
00:11:40,370 --> 00:11:41,465
you have to have

331
00:11:41,465 --> 00:11:42,919
an observation
if you'd like,

332
00:11:42,919 --> 00:11:44,120
or an action, and you

333
00:11:44,120 --> 00:11:45,934
need a participant
to do that.

334
00:11:45,934 --> 00:11:47,899
So the theory is
not classically

335
00:11:47,899 --> 00:11:50,119
mechanical and is not

336
00:11:50,119 --> 00:11:51,289
classical
mechanical is from

337
00:11:51,289 --> 00:11:52,310
one actual state to

338
00:11:52,310 --> 00:11:54,499
another unique actual
state and just,

339
00:11:54,499 --> 00:11:56,869
just one to the next.
There's no potential.

340
00:11:56,869 --> 00:11:58,280
Whereas in quantum theory,

341
00:11:58,280 --> 00:12:01,099
we're moving from a
potential which has

342
00:12:01,099 --> 00:12:04,100
options to an
actual future.

343
00:12:04,100 --> 00:12:05,900
Outcomes are contingent.

344
00:12:05,900 --> 00:12:08,675
Contingent on a
choice must be made.

345
00:12:08,675 --> 00:12:11,045
The potential represents
the possibility of

346
00:12:11,045 --> 00:12:12,455
alternative futures,

347
00:12:12,455 --> 00:12:14,659
not multiple universities.

348
00:12:14,659 --> 00:12:18,470
So wheelers big on
this great essay,

349
00:12:18,470 --> 00:12:19,579
if you want to
call it observer

350
00:12:19,579 --> 00:12:21,214
ship is Genesis.

351
00:12:21,214 --> 00:12:23,300
And this is the
participants act of

352
00:12:23,300 --> 00:12:25,670
observation is
what actualizes.

353
00:12:25,670 --> 00:12:27,200
I don't think
it's observation.

354
00:12:27,200 --> 00:12:28,114
I think it's an act,

355
00:12:28,114 --> 00:12:29,180
but I think
it's active and

356
00:12:29,180 --> 00:12:30,650
participating engineer

357
00:12:30,650 --> 00:12:32,569
that actualizes
measure will see.

358
00:12:32,569 --> 00:12:34,505
Second characteristic

359
00:12:34,505 --> 00:12:36,470
is classmate is
indeterminate.

360
00:12:36,470 --> 00:12:37,670
And this is captured by

361
00:12:37,670 --> 00:12:38,930
the idea of the potential,

362
00:12:38,930 --> 00:12:40,879
the actual, We
see this in,

363
00:12:40,879 --> 00:12:41,990
we'll talk about collapse

364
00:12:41,990 --> 00:12:42,590
of the wave function,

365
00:12:42,590 --> 00:12:43,400
but I don't think
it really made

366
00:12:43,400 --> 00:12:44,750
clear that what
we're moving from as

367
00:12:44,750 --> 00:12:46,295
an indeterminate state

368
00:12:46,295 --> 00:12:48,229
to determine its state.

369
00:12:48,229 --> 00:12:50,300
Of course, the
determinant state is

370
00:12:50,300 --> 00:12:52,309
a new indeterminate
state, but, okay,

371
00:12:52,309 --> 00:12:54,679
so Heisenberg's
original terms,

372
00:12:54,679 --> 00:12:56,870
he goes on about
what he thought

373
00:12:56,870 --> 00:12:59,210
about this
uncertainty thing.

374
00:12:59,210 --> 00:13:00,530
He sees, he originally

375
00:13:00,530 --> 00:13:03,169
favorite indefinite
and indeterminate.

376
00:13:03,169 --> 00:13:04,684
So it's already there.

377
00:13:04,684 --> 00:13:07,310
I mean, Heisenberg's
uncertainty principle

378
00:13:07,310 --> 00:13:09,814
is really Heisenberg
indeterminacy principle,

379
00:13:09,814 --> 00:13:11,839
saying that reality is

380
00:13:11,839 --> 00:13:13,730
in some sense inherently
indeterminate.

381
00:13:13,730 --> 00:13:15,560
Now Polly, I
like this quote

382
00:13:15,560 --> 00:13:18,079
from polity kinda
combines 1.2.

383
00:13:18,079 --> 00:13:20,285
This is the new
pattern of thought.

384
00:13:20,285 --> 00:13:22,249
We do not assume
any longer

385
00:13:22,249 --> 00:13:24,350
the detached observer
occurring in

386
00:13:24,350 --> 00:13:27,289
the idealization
classical type of theory

387
00:13:27,289 --> 00:13:28,610
that an observer who by

388
00:13:28,610 --> 00:13:30,874
his indeterminable
Effects,

389
00:13:30,874 --> 00:13:32,509
creates a new situation,

390
00:13:32,509 --> 00:13:34,984
theoretically described
as a new state

391
00:13:34,984 --> 00:13:36,904
on the observed system.

392
00:13:36,904 --> 00:13:37,954
Okay?

393
00:13:37,954 --> 00:13:40,759
I think that captures
third characteristic is

394
00:13:40,759 --> 00:13:43,399
complementarity is

395
00:13:43,399 --> 00:13:45,290
an essential characteristic
quantum theory,

396
00:13:45,290 --> 00:13:46,220
more emphasized,

397
00:13:46,220 --> 00:13:50,194
it says that particle
and wave phenomenon,

398
00:13:50,194 --> 00:13:52,149
or complimentary,
they're coded,

399
00:13:52,149 --> 00:13:54,154
find opposites way I
like to think of that is

400
00:13:54,154 --> 00:13:56,765
codified opposite is
local and non-local,

401
00:13:56,765 --> 00:14:00,079
which we get in modern
discussion of bill.

402
00:14:00,079 --> 00:14:01,610
But the idea of
local and non-local,

403
00:14:01,610 --> 00:14:04,325
these are two
different concepts

404
00:14:04,325 --> 00:14:05,494
that are Cody find

405
00:14:05,494 --> 00:14:10,209
opposites and observe
in quantum theory,

406
00:14:10,209 --> 00:14:12,264
observable, observables
are conjugates,

407
00:14:12,264 --> 00:14:14,049
conjugates are contraries,

408
00:14:14,049 --> 00:14:15,820
contraries are
complimentary.

409
00:14:15,820 --> 00:14:18,144
So goes the theme here.

410
00:14:18,144 --> 00:14:21,640
And Heisenberg at one
point says, you know,

411
00:14:21,640 --> 00:14:22,659
this whole idea
of uncertainty

412
00:14:22,659 --> 00:14:23,679
is really derivable

413
00:14:23,679 --> 00:14:25,389
directly from
the existence

414
00:14:25,389 --> 00:14:27,129
of conjugate variables,

415
00:14:27,129 --> 00:14:29,019
which you say
complementary variables,

416
00:14:29,019 --> 00:14:29,770
conjugate variables,

417
00:14:29,770 --> 00:14:32,740
really interesting
idea was much more,

418
00:14:32,740 --> 00:14:35,350
much better developed
than modern thinking

419
00:14:35,350 --> 00:14:36,519
than it was at the time.

420
00:14:36,519 --> 00:14:38,664
This is a board, didn't
miss this at all.

421
00:14:38,664 --> 00:14:41,949
It is, is a coat of

422
00:14:41,949 --> 00:14:43,450
arms when he was
inducted into

423
00:14:43,450 --> 00:14:44,349
them or do the elephant

424
00:14:44,349 --> 00:14:45,309
or something like that.

425
00:14:45,309 --> 00:14:46,884
And they go to the top.

426
00:14:46,884 --> 00:14:48,099
You see that obviously

427
00:14:48,099 --> 00:14:49,870
the Yang Yang
diagram there,

428
00:14:49,870 --> 00:14:51,935
but the, It's contrary.

429
00:14:51,935 --> 00:14:55,169
Intimacy means contraries
are complimentary.

430
00:14:55,870 --> 00:15:02,420
So Einstein is
this nice quote

431
00:15:02,420 --> 00:15:05,044
though, like
realities company.

432
00:15:05,044 --> 00:15:06,950
He was asked What is, what

433
00:15:06,950 --> 00:15:08,254
is quantum reality?

434
00:15:08,254 --> 00:15:09,530
And he says, well,

435
00:15:09,530 --> 00:15:11,060
as his physics
is of course

436
00:15:11,060 --> 00:15:13,550
an attempt to conceptually,
to grasp reality.

437
00:15:13,550 --> 00:15:16,055
It's not independently
as being observed.

438
00:15:16,055 --> 00:15:17,269
This sense when speaks of

439
00:15:17,269 --> 00:15:18,410
physical reality
or a write-off,

440
00:15:18,410 --> 00:15:20,660
you see that he's
a spectator model,

441
00:15:20,660 --> 00:15:21,560
not a participant model,

442
00:15:21,560 --> 00:15:23,030
but nonetheless, this is

443
00:15:23,030 --> 00:15:24,815
in pre quantum physics.

444
00:15:24,815 --> 00:15:26,119
There's no doubt as to how

445
00:15:26,119 --> 00:15:27,830
this was to be understood.

446
00:15:27,830 --> 00:15:29,960
Newton's theory of reality

447
00:15:29,960 --> 00:15:31,519
was determined
by a material

448
00:15:31,519 --> 00:15:32,539
point in space-time.

449
00:15:32,539 --> 00:15:34,114
Now, to understand that,

450
00:15:34,114 --> 00:15:35,330
you understand that he's

451
00:15:35,330 --> 00:15:38,089
onto this absolute
simultaneity.

452
00:15:38,089 --> 00:15:40,189
Now you have absolute
simultaneity

453
00:15:40,189 --> 00:15:41,855
which accused Newtons.

454
00:15:41,855 --> 00:15:43,670
Well, the only way you
can have everything

455
00:15:43,670 --> 00:15:44,899
happening at the same time

456
00:15:44,899 --> 00:15:46,234
as it happened in
the same place.

457
00:15:46,234 --> 00:15:48,034
And that's the material
point in space.

458
00:15:48,034 --> 00:15:49,189
That's what he's saying.

459
00:15:49,189 --> 00:15:50,989
The implication of
Newton's theories,

460
00:15:50,989 --> 00:15:53,164
That's realities
is point in space.

461
00:15:53,164 --> 00:15:54,259
Now Maxwell's theory

462
00:15:54,259 --> 00:15:55,759
is basically the opposite.

463
00:15:55,759 --> 00:15:57,110
As my field in

464
00:15:57,110 --> 00:15:58,774
space and time
where every word,

465
00:15:58,774 --> 00:16:00,560
every place in spaces
of different time,

466
00:16:00,560 --> 00:16:02,734
every different times
in a row space.

467
00:16:02,734 --> 00:16:05,255
Then he says,
quantum mechanics,

468
00:16:05,255 --> 00:16:06,544
it's not so easily seen.

469
00:16:06,544 --> 00:16:08,690
And I've gone over this
with various people.

470
00:16:08,690 --> 00:16:10,820
And when is it,

471
00:16:10,820 --> 00:16:15,754
It's these two
different than

472
00:16:15,754 --> 00:16:17,150
the Newtonian and

473
00:16:17,150 --> 00:16:18,995
Maxwellian spacetime
frameworks

474
00:16:18,995 --> 00:16:21,170
are complimentary and they

475
00:16:21,170 --> 00:16:23,540
have complimentary
symmetry principles.

476
00:16:23,540 --> 00:16:25,754
You find a complimentary
symmetry principles.

477
00:16:25,754 --> 00:16:26,360
We never thought of

478
00:16:26,360 --> 00:16:27,904
complementary
symmetry principles.

479
00:16:27,904 --> 00:16:28,684
Think it's true.

480
00:16:28,684 --> 00:16:31,250
I asked Freeman
Dyson about that and

481
00:16:31,250 --> 00:16:33,694
it goes absolutely. Okay.

482
00:16:33,694 --> 00:16:34,970
Now another
way, commentary

483
00:16:34,970 --> 00:16:36,364
is not really a new idea.

484
00:16:36,364 --> 00:16:38,644
And just to get
a sense of it,

485
00:16:38,644 --> 00:16:41,899
one thing that the boy
said was of course,

486
00:16:41,899 --> 00:16:43,309
that all phenomena
in quantum theory,

487
00:16:43,309 --> 00:16:44,030
all phenomena have

488
00:16:44,030 --> 00:16:45,229
both a particle
and a wave.

489
00:16:45,229 --> 00:16:45,620
Asked me if we

490
00:16:45,620 --> 00:16:46,595
don't have particle
phenomenon,

491
00:16:46,595 --> 00:16:49,489
wave phenomena as we
originally imagined,

492
00:16:49,489 --> 00:16:51,379
but we have phenomena
that always

493
00:16:51,379 --> 00:16:53,584
have a particle aspect
and a wave aspect.

494
00:16:53,584 --> 00:16:55,564
Okay, now, my analogy here

495
00:16:55,564 --> 00:16:57,319
is when you observe
a soccer game,

496
00:16:57,319 --> 00:17:00,229
do you see cooperation
or competition?

497
00:17:00,229 --> 00:17:01,819
Both.

498
00:17:01,819 --> 00:17:03,979
Alternatively, you
can you see him boy,

499
00:17:03,979 --> 00:17:05,330
she at the same time?

500
00:17:05,330 --> 00:17:06,859
And do you see
the actions of

501
00:17:06,859 --> 00:17:10,310
one player or the actions
of the whole team?

502
00:17:10,310 --> 00:17:12,755
And is it competitive
or cooperative?

503
00:17:12,755 --> 00:17:14,674
I think you get
the sense of,

504
00:17:14,674 --> 00:17:16,819
you know, cooperation and

505
00:17:16,819 --> 00:17:19,310
competition are
also complimentary.

506
00:17:19,310 --> 00:17:22,849
Okay, so there's
a tougher part.

507
00:17:22,849 --> 00:17:24,919
The new fourth
characteristics

508
00:17:24,919 --> 00:17:25,850
of quantum theory is

509
00:17:25,850 --> 00:17:29,015
that this new
non-communicative geometry.

510
00:17:29,015 --> 00:17:29,839
So it turns out

511
00:17:29,839 --> 00:17:32,044
complimentary variables
don't commute.

512
00:17:32,044 --> 00:17:33,949
So I'm not gonna go

513
00:17:33,949 --> 00:17:34,970
into the whole
vector calculus

514
00:17:34,970 --> 00:17:36,064
with AB does not equal.

515
00:17:36,064 --> 00:17:37,310
So if you go

516
00:17:37,310 --> 00:17:38,855
one way through
things down there,

517
00:17:38,855 --> 00:17:40,639
in regular
vector calculus,

518
00:17:40,639 --> 00:17:42,169
you can, you can
go back and forth.

519
00:17:42,169 --> 00:17:45,710
And that's your normal,
normal calculus.

520
00:17:45,710 --> 00:17:48,649
But then when you add
another variable,

521
00:17:48,649 --> 00:17:51,425
you get to
multivariable calculus.

522
00:17:51,425 --> 00:17:52,970
Multi-variable calculus is

523
00:17:52,970 --> 00:17:54,200
not a generalization,

524
00:17:54,200 --> 00:17:56,360
generalization
over classical

525
00:17:56,360 --> 00:17:58,624
calculus or geometry.

526
00:17:58,624 --> 00:18:01,595
It's, it's, it's unique.

527
00:18:01,595 --> 00:18:05,435
Uk has to do with this
non commutativity.

528
00:18:05,435 --> 00:18:08,060
Anyway. So as a
consequences,

529
00:18:08,060 --> 00:18:09,140
non commutativity reality

530
00:18:09,140 --> 00:18:11,585
emerges selectively
and irreversibly.

531
00:18:11,585 --> 00:18:13,969
And if that's true, then
reality is actually

532
00:18:13,969 --> 00:18:16,954
cumulative and
irreducibly historical.

533
00:18:16,954 --> 00:18:18,530
Okay, If something
happens,

534
00:18:18,530 --> 00:18:19,894
it happens as part
of the universe.

535
00:18:19,894 --> 00:18:22,624
The universe is
cumulative of events

536
00:18:22,624 --> 00:18:25,985
and it's irreducibly
historical.

537
00:18:25,985 --> 00:18:28,144
So it's always
going forward.

538
00:18:28,144 --> 00:18:32,660
Alright, so I'm
already saying this.

539
00:18:32,660 --> 00:18:34,084
I think.

540
00:18:34,084 --> 00:18:37,189
Well, anyway, here's my
favorite module here.

541
00:18:37,189 --> 00:18:38,479
You can't get
here from there.

542
00:18:38,479 --> 00:18:40,579
And the reason is,
what I'm saying is you

543
00:18:40,579 --> 00:18:42,845
can't get to
quantum theory

544
00:18:42,845 --> 00:18:47,600
from arguments
about the limits

545
00:18:47,600 --> 00:18:50,660
of the classical
theories, okay?

546
00:18:50,660 --> 00:18:53,735
Because it's a
revolutionary step,

547
00:18:53,735 --> 00:18:55,639
just like a Kuhnian
revolutions.

548
00:18:55,639 --> 00:19:00,199
So the, there's a
step from the limits

549
00:19:00,199 --> 00:19:02,164
of mechanical theories to

550
00:19:02,164 --> 00:19:06,080
quantum theory
framework that is,

551
00:19:06,080 --> 00:19:08,840
can't be reduced to
mechanical concepts.

552
00:19:08,840 --> 00:19:10,010
So that's, that's one

553
00:19:10,010 --> 00:19:11,330
of the things has
been really tough.

554
00:19:11,330 --> 00:19:15,290
And it requires a
paradigm shift,

555
00:19:15,290 --> 00:19:16,639
whichever we'll
be talking about.

556
00:19:16,639 --> 00:19:18,875
Okay, so summary part one,

557
00:19:18,875 --> 00:19:21,349
none of the four distinct
characteristics of

558
00:19:21,349 --> 00:19:22,579
quantum theory can
be understood in

559
00:19:22,579 --> 00:19:24,485
any classical
mechanical framework,

560
00:19:24,485 --> 00:19:25,879
in any framework defined

561
00:19:25,879 --> 00:19:26,989
by the presuppositions of

562
00:19:26,989 --> 00:19:28,190
classical observer

563
00:19:28,190 --> 00:19:29,855
independent symmetry
and conservation.

564
00:19:29,855 --> 00:19:31,789
I say, hey Terry, Can
I ask a question?

565
00:19:31,789 --> 00:19:32,974
I know you don't want

566
00:19:32,974 --> 00:19:34,790
much time taken
away, but quick Yes.

567
00:19:34,790 --> 00:19:37,080
Would you say it's not

568
00:19:37,540 --> 00:19:41,149
it's not really
reversible.

569
00:19:41,149 --> 00:19:44,314
We do know that the
classical theory can,

570
00:19:44,314 --> 00:19:46,295
at least the
results of it,

571
00:19:46,295 --> 00:19:50,945
can reduce down to
characteristics of,

572
00:19:50,945 --> 00:19:53,449
well, anyway, I guess
I like your question.

573
00:19:53,449 --> 00:19:54,380
I don't like
your question.

574
00:19:54,380 --> 00:19:55,234
Wait, forget it.

575
00:19:55,234 --> 00:19:56,510
Okay. I'm gonna go on.

576
00:19:56,510 --> 00:19:58,744
So the focus of
part two is,

577
00:19:58,744 --> 00:19:59,930
I mean, I know what
the question is

578
00:19:59,930 --> 00:20:01,039
and I have an
answer to it,

579
00:20:01,039 --> 00:20:04,130
but I don't want to
nonsensical thing

580
00:20:04,130 --> 00:20:06,410
about microphysics
and stuff anyway.

581
00:20:06,410 --> 00:20:07,580
So when we go
on to part two,

582
00:20:07,580 --> 00:20:10,459
but in quiet to argue

583
00:20:10,459 --> 00:20:11,239
that quantum theory is

584
00:20:11,239 --> 00:20:12,229
a thermodynamic theory.

585
00:20:12,229 --> 00:20:13,670
And you already know
that in some sense,

586
00:20:13,670 --> 00:20:14,089
because you look at

587
00:20:14,089 --> 00:20:15,409
Schrodinger's
equation, you know,

588
00:20:15,409 --> 00:20:17,330
the, you is, it's
about energy.

589
00:20:17,330 --> 00:20:19,339
And in Lagrange's energy

590
00:20:19,339 --> 00:20:20,794
in Hamilton is energy.

591
00:20:20,794 --> 00:20:22,009
And so I had

592
00:20:22,009 --> 00:20:23,734
a conversation
with Brian Greene.

593
00:20:23,734 --> 00:20:25,730
Now it's pointed out
to him, I said Brian,

594
00:20:25,730 --> 00:20:26,869
to sort out
modern physics,

595
00:20:26,869 --> 00:20:27,380
you need to get

596
00:20:27,380 --> 00:20:29,000
a proper understanding
of thermodynamics.

597
00:20:29,000 --> 00:20:30,259
And he is turned around
and looked at me,

598
00:20:30,259 --> 00:20:33,004
says Terry, it's
all thermodynamics.

599
00:20:33,004 --> 00:20:34,490
Now that shocked
me a little bit,

600
00:20:34,490 --> 00:20:36,634
but then I realized
that he was right.

601
00:20:36,634 --> 00:20:39,110
That all of modern
physics is embedded

602
00:20:39,110 --> 00:20:40,189
in thermodynamics and a

603
00:20:40,189 --> 00:20:41,450
string theory
and everything.

604
00:20:41,450 --> 00:20:43,879
So thermodynamics
is the king of

605
00:20:43,879 --> 00:20:45,710
the hill beyond all

606
00:20:45,710 --> 00:20:47,719
of these other
sub theories.

607
00:20:47,719 --> 00:20:51,725
So the problem,
our problem is,

608
00:20:51,725 --> 00:20:54,994
physics textbooks
tend to represent

609
00:20:54,994 --> 00:20:56,269
3D dynamics in terms of

610
00:20:56,269 --> 00:20:57,499
the mechanistic Clausius

611
00:20:57,499 --> 00:20:59,645
Boltzmann Gibbs
formulation.

612
00:20:59,645 --> 00:21:01,849
Quantum theory is not
a mechanical theory

613
00:21:01,849 --> 00:21:02,900
in this classical sense.

614
00:21:02,900 --> 00:21:04,189
So here then is
our problem.

615
00:21:04,189 --> 00:21:05,899
How to understand quantum.

616
00:21:05,899 --> 00:21:07,760
Theory thermodynamically
without

617
00:21:07,760 --> 00:21:11,180
the mechanical
presuppositions the solution.

618
00:21:11,180 --> 00:21:12,319
Proposing this essay as

619
00:21:12,319 --> 00:21:13,430
a quantum theory
is properly

620
00:21:13,430 --> 00:21:14,435
understood in terms of

621
00:21:14,435 --> 00:21:16,070
engineering
thermodynamics.

622
00:21:16,070 --> 00:21:20,119
Okay? So part two,
don't okay, timewise.

623
00:21:20,119 --> 00:21:22,775
So my strategy here
is to develop,

624
00:21:22,775 --> 00:21:25,205
first to develop
engineering thermodynamics,

625
00:21:25,205 --> 00:21:26,735
Sadi Carnot.

626
00:21:26,735 --> 00:21:29,899
And in the process
we'll see there are

627
00:21:29,899 --> 00:21:31,189
four definitive
characteristics

628
00:21:31,189 --> 00:21:31,939
are quantum theory are

629
00:21:31,939 --> 00:21:33,440
also definitive
characteristics

630
00:21:33,440 --> 00:21:35,254
of engineering
thermodynamics.

631
00:21:35,254 --> 00:21:38,825
Okay, So this is my muse.

632
00:21:38,825 --> 00:21:41,825
I visited a couple
times a year in Oxford.

633
00:21:41,825 --> 00:21:43,550
Peter Atkins and
alkenes wrote

634
00:21:43,550 --> 00:21:44,660
this book a few years

635
00:21:44,660 --> 00:21:45,889
back called The
second Law.

636
00:21:45,889 --> 00:21:48,305
And in that it shocked me.

637
00:21:48,305 --> 00:21:49,909
He said There are
two histories of

638
00:21:49,909 --> 00:21:53,480
thermodynamics,
Cornell and Boltzmann.

639
00:21:53,480 --> 00:21:55,835
And he says Karnak travel

640
00:21:55,835 --> 00:21:57,605
towards the right
x from the engine,

641
00:21:57,605 --> 00:21:58,579
then the symbol of

642
00:21:58,579 --> 00:22:00,305
industrial reality,
Boltzmann travel,

643
00:22:00,305 --> 00:22:01,925
thermodynamics
from the atom,

644
00:22:01,925 --> 00:22:02,990
the symbol with emerging

645
00:22:02,990 --> 00:22:04,490
scientific fundamentalism.

646
00:22:04,490 --> 00:22:05,464
Okay?

647
00:22:05,464 --> 00:22:06,664
And then he goes
on and says,

648
00:22:06,664 --> 00:22:09,935
thermodynamics still
has both aspects.

649
00:22:09,935 --> 00:22:11,060
That shocked me.

650
00:22:11,060 --> 00:22:11,825
The modern theory.

651
00:22:11,825 --> 00:22:13,879
There's two different
versions of

652
00:22:13,879 --> 00:22:16,399
modern theater
promoter Readings.

653
00:22:16,399 --> 00:22:17,960
Yes, actually.

654
00:22:17,960 --> 00:22:21,109
So what is the
relation between

655
00:22:21,109 --> 00:22:22,439
the current mechanical

656
00:22:22,439 --> 00:22:24,619
engineering versions
of thermodynamics,

657
00:22:24,619 --> 00:22:27,485
the Boltzmann
Gibbs version,

658
00:22:27,485 --> 00:22:29,480
and carnivores and
wishes relationship.

659
00:22:29,480 --> 00:22:30,004
Okay?

660
00:22:30,004 --> 00:22:30,934
First of all, it took me

661
00:22:30,934 --> 00:22:31,909
literally three years to

662
00:22:31,909 --> 00:22:34,145
convince myself that
accuracy is right.

663
00:22:34,145 --> 00:22:35,600
That there are
two urgency going

664
00:22:35,600 --> 00:22:37,864
around in my insight,

665
00:22:37,864 --> 00:22:40,220
ultimately to convince
me was that it was

666
00:22:40,220 --> 00:22:41,899
the difference between
mechanical work

667
00:22:41,899 --> 00:22:43,459
at thermodynamic work,

668
00:22:43,459 --> 00:22:45,110
which I'll go into
a little bit later.

669
00:22:45,110 --> 00:22:47,794
But just for a
highlight there.

670
00:22:47,794 --> 00:22:50,329
I think one must
be a special case

671
00:22:50,329 --> 00:22:52,565
within the other
was my thought.

672
00:22:52,565 --> 00:22:54,469
So I think the either

673
00:22:54,469 --> 00:22:55,760
engineering thermodynamics

674
00:22:55,760 --> 00:22:57,889
is a special case,

675
00:22:57,889 --> 00:23:00,274
mechanical thermodynamics
or vice versa.

676
00:23:00,274 --> 00:23:01,669
Okay, So my hypothesis

677
00:23:01,669 --> 00:23:03,109
is engineering
thermodynamics is

678
00:23:03,109 --> 00:23:05,179
the more general
subsuming and superseding

679
00:23:05,179 --> 00:23:08,149
all possible mechanical
formulations.

680
00:23:08,149 --> 00:23:09,950
Now, the other
guy who got all

681
00:23:09,950 --> 00:23:11,809
this early on
was Don card.

682
00:23:11,809 --> 00:23:17,405
Well, my friend anyways,

683
00:23:17,405 --> 00:23:19,700
kept telling me to go
meet don card well,

684
00:23:19,700 --> 00:23:21,200
and I didn't do it
in then he died,

685
00:23:21,200 --> 00:23:23,464
unfortunately, so he's
on my track here.

686
00:23:23,464 --> 00:23:25,219
So he says almost, almost

687
00:23:25,219 --> 00:23:26,780
traditionally it
seems accounts of

688
00:23:26,780 --> 00:23:27,920
development of
the concepts

689
00:23:27,920 --> 00:23:29,059
of work and
injury of tender

690
00:23:29,059 --> 00:23:30,469
describe them within

691
00:23:30,469 --> 00:23:31,490
the Classical framework

692
00:23:31,490 --> 00:23:32,960
of Newtonian mechanics.

693
00:23:32,960 --> 00:23:34,490
And he's being
said, I'd like

694
00:23:34,490 --> 00:23:35,690
to suggest that this

695
00:23:35,690 --> 00:23:38,180
may be to take too narrow
a view of the case,

696
00:23:38,180 --> 00:23:40,700
I guess so card dwell

697
00:23:40,700 --> 00:23:42,229
took a broader than
you and came to

698
00:23:42,229 --> 00:23:43,609
realize that the
real history of

699
00:23:43,609 --> 00:23:45,289
thermodynamics is
about machines

700
00:23:45,289 --> 00:23:47,269
and engines and cartilages

701
00:23:47,269 --> 00:23:48,679
at the University
of Manchester,

702
00:23:48,679 --> 00:23:49,459
which was the seat

703
00:23:49,459 --> 00:23:51,379
of the Industrial
Revolution.

704
00:23:51,379 --> 00:23:53,089
So it's not too
surprising that

705
00:23:53,089 --> 00:23:54,739
he came up with this card.

706
00:23:54,739 --> 00:23:57,004
Well, it is great work on

707
00:23:57,004 --> 00:23:59,840
UK's smitten who did

708
00:23:59,840 --> 00:24:01,325
a lot of work on
water wheels.

709
00:24:01,325 --> 00:24:02,600
And this is really cool

710
00:24:02,600 --> 00:24:03,679
if you get into
really closely

711
00:24:03,679 --> 00:24:04,789
related to Sadi Carnot

712
00:24:04,789 --> 00:24:06,455
was work on steam engines.

713
00:24:06,455 --> 00:24:08,525
So tracing back.

714
00:24:08,525 --> 00:24:11,420
So carbo strikes
than to look at

715
00:24:11,420 --> 00:24:12,694
the history of

716
00:24:12,694 --> 00:24:14,240
engines and machines
on the center,

717
00:24:14,240 --> 00:24:15,469
he realized you
go back to Saudi,

718
00:24:15,469 --> 00:24:17,315
but then you start going
back beyond sunny.

719
00:24:17,315 --> 00:24:18,935
And the 17th,
18th century.

720
00:24:18,935 --> 00:24:21,349
There were all these
articles or essays being

721
00:24:21,349 --> 00:24:23,314
written on the topic

722
00:24:23,314 --> 00:24:24,815
roughly on machines
in general.

723
00:24:24,815 --> 00:24:27,335
And Huygens wrote
been yelling.

724
00:24:27,335 --> 00:24:31,234
Leibnitz, later,
Euler column carnal,

725
00:24:31,234 --> 00:24:33,020
they're all
writing on machine

726
00:24:33,020 --> 00:24:34,714
trying to understand
machines.

727
00:24:34,714 --> 00:24:37,099
You don't see
this much in the,

728
00:24:37,099 --> 00:24:40,129
in the Boltzmann,
Clausius, Boltzmann stuff.

729
00:24:40,129 --> 00:24:42,350
I don t think maybe a
little on Clausius way

730
00:24:42,350 --> 00:24:44,764
that the current concern,

731
00:24:44,764 --> 00:24:45,949
understand machines
in general

732
00:24:45,949 --> 00:24:47,329
did not want to.

733
00:24:47,329 --> 00:24:48,994
This concern with

734
00:24:48,994 --> 00:24:50,900
understanding machines
and engines did

735
00:24:50,900 --> 00:24:52,715
not arise from within

736
00:24:52,715 --> 00:24:54,485
the mechanics
research program.

737
00:24:54,485 --> 00:24:55,640
Okay, You look great.

738
00:24:55,640 --> 00:24:57,889
Came up it came up
from engineer's, okay,

739
00:24:57,889 --> 00:24:59,329
and this is a
point that's made

740
00:24:59,329 --> 00:25:00,874
in philosophy,

741
00:25:00,874 --> 00:25:02,165
history and
philosophy of science

742
00:25:02,165 --> 00:25:03,845
along the way
that the whole,

743
00:25:03,845 --> 00:25:05,434
whole of thermodynamics

744
00:25:05,434 --> 00:25:06,499
really came from
engineer is

745
00:25:06,499 --> 00:25:10,054
not from mathematical
physicist.

746
00:25:10,054 --> 00:25:12,079
Now.

747
00:25:12,079 --> 00:25:15,590
So what's the
real history?

748
00:25:15,590 --> 00:25:17,780
Lakatos popularized
the idea

749
00:25:17,780 --> 00:25:17,930
of

750
00:25:17,930 --> 00:25:19,849
rational reconstructions
in history science.

751
00:25:19,849 --> 00:25:21,695
And this is going
to be, say,

752
00:25:21,695 --> 00:25:23,869
historians of
science accepting

753
00:25:23,869 --> 00:25:25,040
the presupposition of

754
00:25:25,040 --> 00:25:26,450
the mechanics
research program

755
00:25:26,450 --> 00:25:28,474
that the ultimate theories
can be mechanical.

756
00:25:28,474 --> 00:25:29,749
Interpret the history of

757
00:25:29,749 --> 00:25:30,859
science as a history of

758
00:25:30,859 --> 00:25:31,969
advances within

759
00:25:31,969 --> 00:25:33,485
the mechanics
research program.

760
00:25:33,485 --> 00:25:35,180
They seek supportive
evidence while

761
00:25:35,180 --> 00:25:36,109
counter evidence either

762
00:25:36,109 --> 00:25:37,505
ignored or misrepresented.

763
00:25:37,505 --> 00:25:39,409
This is, I believe
with resulted in

764
00:25:39,409 --> 00:25:40,129
the dominance of

765
00:25:40,129 --> 00:25:41,750
the history of
thermodynamics.

766
00:25:41,750 --> 00:25:44,794
I always use Boltzmann
Gibbs tradition.

767
00:25:44,794 --> 00:25:47,795
So this is a read this,

768
00:25:47,795 --> 00:25:52,335
so this is early
essay of Clausius.

769
00:25:52,335 --> 00:25:54,529
Says, well, this is carnal

770
00:25:54,529 --> 00:25:56,270
proved that whenever work

771
00:25:56,270 --> 00:25:57,424
is produced by heat,

772
00:25:57,424 --> 00:25:59,150
a certain quantity
of heat passes from

773
00:25:59,150 --> 00:26:01,295
a warm body to
cool one, too.

774
00:26:01,295 --> 00:26:04,160
Cold sink. This
transmission,

775
00:26:04,160 --> 00:26:06,319
chrono regards
as the change of

776
00:26:06,319 --> 00:26:09,179
heat corresponding to
the work produced.

777
00:26:09,700 --> 00:26:13,730
I know says expressly
that no heat is

778
00:26:13,730 --> 00:26:17,225
lost in the process and
he adds carnal ads.

779
00:26:17,225 --> 00:26:20,029
This is a fact which has
never been disputed.

780
00:26:20,029 --> 00:26:21,769
It is first
assumed without

781
00:26:21,769 --> 00:26:23,330
an investigation
and then confirmed

782
00:26:23,330 --> 00:26:25,235
by various calorimetry
experiments.

783
00:26:25,235 --> 00:26:26,900
To deny it would
be to reject

784
00:26:26,900 --> 00:26:28,864
the entire theory of heat,

785
00:26:28,864 --> 00:26:32,570
of which it forms the
principal foundation.

786
00:26:32,570 --> 00:26:37,400
Clausius says, I'm
not, I'm not however,

787
00:26:37,400 --> 00:26:39,005
sure that the assertion

788
00:26:39,005 --> 00:26:41,359
that the production
would work,

789
00:26:41,359 --> 00:26:43,999
then in the production
of work, a loss

790
00:26:43,999 --> 00:26:45,214
of heat never occurs,

791
00:26:45,214 --> 00:26:47,105
is officially established
by experiment.

792
00:26:47,105 --> 00:26:49,429
And he goes nice is
perhaps the contrary

793
00:26:49,429 --> 00:26:52,310
is to be user2
greater justice.

794
00:26:52,310 --> 00:26:55,219
So what we see
here is a kernel.

795
00:26:55,219 --> 00:26:57,829
Kernel and Clausius are

796
00:26:57,829 --> 00:26:59,600
speaking different
languages here.

797
00:26:59,600 --> 00:27:02,750
So Clausius sees the
driving force of

798
00:27:02,750 --> 00:27:04,519
heat is a driving
force and that driving

799
00:27:04,519 --> 00:27:06,605
force declines as
workers produce.

800
00:27:06,605 --> 00:27:08,030
Pernod says express,

801
00:27:08,030 --> 00:27:10,024
no heat is lost
in the process,

802
00:27:10,024 --> 00:27:12,005
that the quantity
remains unchanged.

803
00:27:12,005 --> 00:27:13,790
And he has this fact.

804
00:27:13,790 --> 00:27:16,850
So the principal
foundation.

805
00:27:16,850 --> 00:27:18,410
So I think what he's

806
00:27:18,410 --> 00:27:20,299
actually saying, this
fundamental principles,

807
00:27:20,299 --> 00:27:22,280
physical foundation
is actually,

808
00:27:22,280 --> 00:27:23,750
it'll turn out
that conservation

809
00:27:23,750 --> 00:27:25,070
of living for
some Vis viva.

810
00:27:25,070 --> 00:27:26,615
And I want to
suggest that this is

811
00:27:26,615 --> 00:27:29,360
the first law of
engineering thermodynamics,

812
00:27:29,360 --> 00:27:31,040
conservation of
living for us, No,

813
00:27:31,040 --> 00:27:32,089
we don't even know
what let me first

814
00:27:32,089 --> 00:27:33,380
is yet, but
we'll get there.

815
00:27:33,380 --> 00:27:34,774
Okay?

816
00:27:34,774 --> 00:27:36,919
Well, as our current node.

817
00:27:36,919 --> 00:27:39,889
In his essay in 1803,

818
00:27:39,889 --> 00:27:42,140
fundamental principle
equilibrium motion

819
00:27:42,140 --> 00:27:44,359
outlines his project is

820
00:27:44,359 --> 00:27:46,354
to articulate an
engineering worldview.

821
00:27:46,354 --> 00:27:47,359
Really.

822
00:27:47,359 --> 00:27:50,464
In his opening
remarks, he says,

823
00:27:50,464 --> 00:27:53,179
argues that rational
mechanics can't account

824
00:27:53,179 --> 00:27:55,399
for engineers and
engineering practice.

825
00:27:55,399 --> 00:27:57,170
So just like saying to

826
00:27:57,170 --> 00:27:58,399
the mathematical physicist

827
00:27:58,399 --> 00:28:00,230
where the engineers in

828
00:28:00,230 --> 00:28:02,374
your model of
the universe.

829
00:28:02,374 --> 00:28:03,800
This is one of the
things will lead me away

830
00:28:03,800 --> 00:28:05,119
from a scientific
worldview yourself.

831
00:28:05,119 --> 00:28:06,680
I don't see myself

832
00:28:06,680 --> 00:28:09,004
in the scientific
world view.

833
00:28:09,004 --> 00:28:10,969
I mean, everything
is deterministic.

834
00:28:10,969 --> 00:28:12,560
I mean, what's inquiry,

835
00:28:12,560 --> 00:28:14,419
what I didn't
make any sense.

836
00:28:14,419 --> 00:28:16,919
There's nobody in
and no people there.

837
00:28:17,170 --> 00:28:20,194
The entire mechanics
research program,

838
00:28:20,194 --> 00:28:21,799
by its very nature, adopts

839
00:28:21,799 --> 00:28:23,779
this detached spectator
representation.

840
00:28:23,779 --> 00:28:25,460
New inquiry and inquire

841
00:28:25,460 --> 00:28:26,989
is outside the system.

842
00:28:26,989 --> 00:28:29,390
No observers, no
active agents,

843
00:28:29,390 --> 00:28:31,759
no participant
engineers inside.

844
00:28:31,759 --> 00:28:33,724
The czars
engineering world

845
00:28:33,724 --> 00:28:35,075
view is participatory

846
00:28:35,075 --> 00:28:37,039
engineers and
engineering practice or

847
00:28:37,039 --> 00:28:39,500
natural components
of reality.

848
00:28:39,500 --> 00:28:42,109
On to say that
inquiry itself has

849
00:28:42,109 --> 00:28:45,049
to be part of a natural
aspect of reality.

850
00:28:45,049 --> 00:28:47,225
Then cannula is the
beautiful part.

851
00:28:47,225 --> 00:28:49,130
He's presents this very
specific arguments,

852
00:28:49,130 --> 00:28:51,334
citing a well-known
engineering present.

853
00:28:51,334 --> 00:28:52,730
What we lose in time.

854
00:28:52,730 --> 00:28:54,590
We gain in power.

855
00:28:54,590 --> 00:28:59,000
Now, what if I
can use pulleys?

856
00:28:59,000 --> 00:29:01,264
So if I use a politer
raise something,

857
00:29:01,264 --> 00:29:03,440
it takes more
time to raise it.

858
00:29:03,440 --> 00:29:05,090
But the unit power that

859
00:29:05,090 --> 00:29:06,650
I need to do that is less.

860
00:29:06,650 --> 00:29:07,729
Okay. That's kind of a St.

861
00:29:07,729 --> 00:29:10,550
so animals see from

862
00:29:10,550 --> 00:29:12,710
this one statement
I'm gonna go on

863
00:29:12,710 --> 00:29:15,140
and develop these
four characteristics,

864
00:29:15,140 --> 00:29:17,149
participatory and
determinants, so forth.

865
00:29:17,149 --> 00:29:18,980
They all, they all follow

866
00:29:18,980 --> 00:29:21,365
from this one
engineering principle.

867
00:29:21,365 --> 00:29:23,209
So we said the engineers

868
00:29:23,209 --> 00:29:25,849
are embodied participants,

869
00:29:25,849 --> 00:29:27,140
they're part of reality.

870
00:29:27,140 --> 00:29:30,379
Okay, engineering very
dynamic framework

871
00:29:30,379 --> 00:29:31,640
is a participant
framework.

872
00:29:31,640 --> 00:29:33,575
But I call
carnivores epiphany.

873
00:29:33,575 --> 00:29:34,759
This is where engineers

874
00:29:34,759 --> 00:29:36,019
in a world of engineering.

875
00:29:36,019 --> 00:29:37,459
And another to say we're

876
00:29:37,459 --> 00:29:37,999
agents and

877
00:29:37,999 --> 00:29:39,229
where that agency
it's really best.

878
00:29:39,229 --> 00:29:41,689
In the intro to
Saudis book,

879
00:29:41,689 --> 00:29:43,729
it talks about the
meteorological cycle

880
00:29:43,729 --> 00:29:45,379
and all these
other things where

881
00:29:45,379 --> 00:29:47,930
all these engineering
processes are going

882
00:29:47,930 --> 00:29:48,859
on and we're engineers

883
00:29:48,859 --> 00:29:50,524
within that
engineering world.

884
00:29:50,524 --> 00:29:52,549
So if quantum theory

885
00:29:52,549 --> 00:29:54,304
is engineering
thermodynamics,

886
00:29:54,304 --> 00:29:56,839
it would resolve a
couple of points.

887
00:29:56,839 --> 00:29:59,480
These are minor that why

888
00:29:59,480 --> 00:30:01,099
do we observe as the
collapse wave function?

889
00:30:01,099 --> 00:30:01,400
You know,

890
00:30:01,400 --> 00:30:02,690
it's all nonsense because

891
00:30:02,690 --> 00:30:03,514
they're not outside that.

892
00:30:03,514 --> 00:30:04,999
There's no outside
of the system.

893
00:30:04,999 --> 00:30:07,159
And it removes bores cut

894
00:30:07,159 --> 00:30:11,150
problem. But
in general go.

895
00:30:11,150 --> 00:30:12,589
So the other part

896
00:30:12,589 --> 00:30:16,130
is already well-known
engineering principle

897
00:30:16,130 --> 00:30:18,199
that we lose with time.

898
00:30:18,199 --> 00:30:20,465
And time, we gain
in power means

899
00:30:20,465 --> 00:30:21,919
engineers can
accomplish attack,

900
00:30:21,919 --> 00:30:22,849
for instance, faster,

901
00:30:22,849 --> 00:30:25,039
slower using pulleys
will be slower,

902
00:30:25,039 --> 00:30:27,920
requires less power
per, per time.

903
00:30:27,920 --> 00:30:30,199
Participant. What
this means is

904
00:30:30,199 --> 00:30:31,385
a participant
engineers have

905
00:30:31,385 --> 00:30:32,869
options. This
is a key point.

906
00:30:32,869 --> 00:30:34,039
They have options.

907
00:30:34,039 --> 00:30:35,869
They find themselves
in a partially

908
00:30:35,869 --> 00:30:37,250
constrained but
irreducibly

909
00:30:37,250 --> 00:30:38,584
indeterminate reality.

910
00:30:38,584 --> 00:30:40,069
I can say engineers

911
00:30:40,069 --> 00:30:42,605
have constrained freewill,

912
00:30:42,605 --> 00:30:44,089
the Hindu,
anything but they

913
00:30:44,089 --> 00:30:46,564
have freewill
within constraints.

914
00:30:46,564 --> 00:30:48,590
So foreman read
this great book

915
00:30:48,590 --> 00:30:49,820
called the existential
pleasures.

916
00:30:49,820 --> 00:30:51,635
That engineering
is a great book.

917
00:30:51,635 --> 00:30:53,359
And what he says

918
00:30:53,359 --> 00:30:55,789
is properly connects it

919
00:30:55,789 --> 00:30:57,844
to the continental
existentialists movement.

920
00:30:57,844 --> 00:30:59,629
And his extra
central engineer

921
00:30:59,629 --> 00:31:01,504
has the ability to act,

922
00:31:01,504 --> 00:31:03,920
but no definitive script.

923
00:31:03,920 --> 00:31:07,265
Actualization of an
actualization is

924
00:31:07,265 --> 00:31:09,185
of an indeterminate
potential.

925
00:31:09,185 --> 00:31:10,279
It requires a choice.

926
00:31:10,279 --> 00:31:12,094
In other words, alright,

927
00:31:12,094 --> 00:31:14,974
engineering colleagues
as a teacher,

928
00:31:14,974 --> 00:31:16,370
I teach my students that

929
00:31:16,370 --> 00:31:20,165
their opportunity
actual users

930
00:31:20,165 --> 00:31:22,159
were value manifestos
or something.

931
00:31:22,159 --> 00:31:24,650
Okay, so anyway, so
that's the basic idea.

932
00:31:24,650 --> 00:31:25,339
So engineers and I

933
00:31:25,339 --> 00:31:27,439
like this idea,
applied science,

934
00:31:27,439 --> 00:31:28,850
not even logical
thing, No,

935
00:31:28,850 --> 00:31:30,875
they don't know
exactly what to do.

936
00:31:30,875 --> 00:31:32,600
After you evaluate
and they have to try

937
00:31:32,600 --> 00:31:34,729
different things and
they learn and so forth.

938
00:31:34,729 --> 00:31:35,900
And solving

939
00:31:35,900 --> 00:31:38,210
an engineering problem
is different than

940
00:31:38,210 --> 00:31:39,499
it would be imagined in

941
00:31:39,499 --> 00:31:40,669
applied science
and applied

942
00:31:40,669 --> 00:31:41,855
science She's calculated.

943
00:31:41,855 --> 00:31:43,850
But engineering,
problem-solving is

944
00:31:43,850 --> 00:31:45,365
much more complicated
than you.

945
00:31:45,365 --> 00:31:47,390
You have to try
things out and yeah,

946
00:31:47,390 --> 00:31:49,460
those sub-tests and all
that sort of stuff.

947
00:31:49,460 --> 00:31:52,699
So anyway, so
creative opportunity

948
00:31:52,699 --> 00:31:53,930
that the inferior

949
00:31:53,930 --> 00:31:55,009
felonies himself
and accretive

950
00:31:55,009 --> 00:31:57,499
opportunity to actualize
future reality.

951
00:31:57,499 --> 00:32:01,190
Instead of what this
ends up doing it trans,

952
00:32:01,190 --> 00:32:02,479
forms this idea of

953
00:32:02,479 --> 00:32:05,210
a probability space
that comes out

954
00:32:05,210 --> 00:32:07,280
of Schrodinger and

955
00:32:07,280 --> 00:32:09,035
become an engineering
worldview,

956
00:32:09,035 --> 00:32:10,430
becomes a constrained

957
00:32:10,430 --> 00:32:13,469
existential
possibility space.

958
00:32:14,530 --> 00:32:18,620
So here's your
participants.

959
00:32:18,620 --> 00:32:20,300
They have options.
So Paulie,

960
00:32:20,300 --> 00:32:21,110
I already read this one,

961
00:32:21,110 --> 00:32:23,329
wants to see it

962
00:32:23,329 --> 00:32:24,409
again, a new
pattern of thought.

963
00:32:24,409 --> 00:32:25,220
We do not assume any

964
00:32:25,220 --> 00:32:26,480
longer than he
tests observer

965
00:32:26,480 --> 00:32:27,709
Ukrainian idealizations

966
00:32:27,709 --> 00:32:28,939
in this classical
type of theory.

967
00:32:28,939 --> 00:32:30,470
But an observer who buy

968
00:32:30,470 --> 00:32:32,120
it's indeterminate
effects creates

969
00:32:32,120 --> 00:32:33,649
a new situation
theoretically

970
00:32:33,649 --> 00:32:36,155
described as a new
student or system.

971
00:32:36,155 --> 00:32:37,879
Okay, So third

972
00:32:37,879 --> 00:32:40,835
component, it's
complementarity.

973
00:32:40,835 --> 00:32:42,080
And this is
really what drew

974
00:32:42,080 --> 00:32:43,820
me to this connection

975
00:32:43,820 --> 00:32:45,079
between Al-Azhar
in quantum

976
00:32:45,079 --> 00:32:47,030
theory in the first place.

977
00:32:47,030 --> 00:32:49,130
This idea that the
composition of motion

978
00:32:49,130 --> 00:32:50,809
and the idea is that

979
00:32:50,809 --> 00:32:53,165
all motion and change
and those are,

980
00:32:53,165 --> 00:32:54,589
in engineering in general,

981
00:32:54,589 --> 00:32:57,004
has both the linear
and an angular aspect.

982
00:32:57,004 --> 00:32:58,219
You see all the
descriptions of

983
00:32:58,219 --> 00:32:59,509
motion and Lazaro has

984
00:32:59,509 --> 00:33:01,010
essays and always has

985
00:33:01,010 --> 00:33:03,440
a cosine angle
added to a cell.

986
00:33:03,440 --> 00:33:04,550
But is that why there's

987
00:33:04,550 --> 00:33:05,989
only an angle associated

988
00:33:05,989 --> 00:33:07,010
with a linear motion?

989
00:33:07,010 --> 00:33:10,804
So for him, all
motion is composite.

990
00:33:10,804 --> 00:33:13,129
So the parallelogram of

991
00:33:13,129 --> 00:33:14,720
forces doesn't
work in this.

992
00:33:14,720 --> 00:33:15,949
Higher forces to

993
00:33:15,949 --> 00:33:17,449
higher-dimensional
parallel ground forces is

994
00:33:17,449 --> 00:33:18,559
adding things to adding

995
00:33:18,559 --> 00:33:20,480
different linear
things together.

996
00:33:20,480 --> 00:33:21,649
And that's nice as long as

997
00:33:21,649 --> 00:33:24,199
you're doing simple
vector calculus.

998
00:33:24,199 --> 00:33:27,259
But when you go to this
higher order thing,

999
00:33:27,259 --> 00:33:31,070
when you're Combining
linear and angular,

1000
00:33:31,070 --> 00:33:31,580
or if you like

1001
00:33:31,580 --> 00:33:33,410
linear and rotational
components,

1002
00:33:33,410 --> 00:33:36,995
as all motion is composed
of both of those,

1003
00:33:36,995 --> 00:33:39,110
then your forces you into

1004
00:33:39,110 --> 00:33:41,090
a higher concept
of change.

1005
00:33:41,090 --> 00:33:43,790
So it's not as
motion, motion,

1006
00:33:43,790 --> 00:33:45,739
linear motion, That's
nice Newtonian stuff

1007
00:33:45,739 --> 00:33:47,969
and your rotation.

1008
00:33:48,460 --> 00:33:50,840
Newtonian notation
if you like.

1009
00:33:50,840 --> 00:33:51,800
But now we're
ready to think

1010
00:33:51,800 --> 00:33:53,059
of where they're combined.

1011
00:33:53,059 --> 00:33:54,380
Okay, So real motion,

1012
00:33:54,380 --> 00:33:55,910
real change has

1013
00:33:55,910 --> 00:33:58,640
two components and
they're complimentary.

1014
00:33:58,640 --> 00:34:02,099
And this complementarity
goes back to,

1015
00:34:03,220 --> 00:34:05,239
they all trace it back

1016
00:34:05,239 --> 00:34:10,274
to ancient Greek stuff.

1017
00:34:10,274 --> 00:34:14,425
So now, so change.

1018
00:34:14,425 --> 00:34:16,449
Now, since it's
a higher concept

1019
00:34:16,449 --> 00:34:18,549
that we need a new
word for a new term.

1020
00:34:18,549 --> 00:34:21,804
And the term that comes
up is called action.

1021
00:34:21,804 --> 00:34:25,840
And I think it takes it
from the Allen Baer,

1022
00:34:25,840 --> 00:34:29,035
little bit from lightness
and wagons maybe.

1023
00:34:29,035 --> 00:34:34,009
Okay, So complimentarity
in engineering.

1024
00:34:34,200 --> 00:34:36,520
So one way to put it,

1025
00:34:36,520 --> 00:34:38,754
this is something that
Atkins got me on to.

1026
00:34:38,754 --> 00:34:40,959
Newtonian linear motion is

1027
00:34:40,959 --> 00:34:43,120
by infinitesimal
linear steps.

1028
00:34:43,120 --> 00:34:44,500
So you can see
right off the bat,

1029
00:34:44,500 --> 00:34:45,579
so you've been tested,

1030
00:34:45,579 --> 00:34:46,510
that means its derivatives

1031
00:34:46,510 --> 00:34:47,665
is in differential.

1032
00:34:47,665 --> 00:34:50,110
So we're living newness,

1033
00:34:50,110 --> 00:34:51,220
leaving something out is

1034
00:34:51,220 --> 00:34:53,054
linear motion is
leaving something out.

1035
00:34:53,054 --> 00:34:54,469
And what I'm
showing you now is

1036
00:34:54,469 --> 00:34:56,164
the angular component.

1037
00:34:56,164 --> 00:34:57,649
To get the
angular component

1038
00:34:57,649 --> 00:34:58,849
needed whole
separate theory of

1039
00:34:58,849 --> 00:35:00,469
gravity to account for

1040
00:35:00,469 --> 00:35:03,184
curvilinear
aspect of motion.

1041
00:35:03,184 --> 00:35:06,109
Those are, they're
all has both.

1042
00:35:06,109 --> 00:35:07,550
Okay. And I've
already covered that.

1043
00:35:07,550 --> 00:35:09,424
I think it's Archimedes.

1044
00:35:09,424 --> 00:35:11,089
Archimedes. They all trace

1045
00:35:11,089 --> 00:35:12,379
back to Archimedes
argument

1046
00:35:12,379 --> 00:35:15,545
that the complementarity
of lines and curves,

1047
00:35:15,545 --> 00:35:16,730
as you do the
quadrature of

1048
00:35:16,730 --> 00:35:18,379
the circle and all
that sort of stuff.

1049
00:35:18,379 --> 00:35:20,840
And higher
geometry anyway.

1050
00:35:20,840 --> 00:35:24,800
So it was already

1051
00:35:24,800 --> 00:35:26,599
views the Euler-Lagrange

1052
00:35:26,599 --> 00:35:29,300
approach ideas as he said,

1053
00:35:29,300 --> 00:35:30,590
these are useful but

1054
00:35:30,590 --> 00:35:32,555
not representative
of the whole.

1055
00:35:32,555 --> 00:35:34,609
Ontologically,
mythologically,

1056
00:35:34,609 --> 00:35:36,679
the Lagrange

1057
00:35:36,679 --> 00:35:38,465
principally statute
is ambiguous.

1058
00:35:38,465 --> 00:35:39,965
It's really about extrema.

1059
00:35:39,965 --> 00:35:41,630
Euler makes this criticism

1060
00:35:41,630 --> 00:35:43,460
of Lagrange does he said,

1061
00:35:43,460 --> 00:35:44,539
Hey, wait a minute,
we're not talking

1062
00:35:44,539 --> 00:35:46,174
about least action here.

1063
00:35:46,174 --> 00:35:47,270
Sometimes it's least,

1064
00:35:47,270 --> 00:35:48,589
sometimes it's
mostly it depends on

1065
00:35:48,589 --> 00:35:51,020
the problem and you can't
just sell whatever.

1066
00:35:51,020 --> 00:35:52,039
You can't say
that the whole

1067
00:35:52,039 --> 00:35:53,119
system is
representative of the

1068
00:35:53,119 --> 00:35:55,985
whole because
it's ambiguous.

1069
00:35:55,985 --> 00:35:56,390
Okay?

1070
00:35:56,390 --> 00:35:57,815
It's kinda like
particle wave.

1071
00:35:57,815 --> 00:35:59,510
But the key takeaway

1072
00:35:59,510 --> 00:36:01,009
I want to get here
is linear and

1073
00:36:01,009 --> 00:36:03,379
curvilinear
mechanical ideals are

1074
00:36:03,379 --> 00:36:05,450
complimentary and
taken individually

1075
00:36:05,450 --> 00:36:07,669
economy representative
of the whole.

1076
00:36:07,669 --> 00:36:10,715
Analogy is
particles. In ways.

1077
00:36:10,715 --> 00:36:12,244
The world is
not made up of

1078
00:36:12,244 --> 00:36:14,419
particles and waves.

1079
00:36:14,419 --> 00:36:16,040
Neither one of
those can be

1080
00:36:16,040 --> 00:36:17,975
conceptually representative
of the whole.

1081
00:36:17,975 --> 00:36:19,280
Not to say there
aren't particles,

1082
00:36:19,280 --> 00:36:20,480
there are particles,
there are ways,

1083
00:36:20,480 --> 00:36:21,829
but neither one
of those taken by

1084
00:36:21,829 --> 00:36:23,959
themselves is represented
with the whole.

1085
00:36:23,959 --> 00:36:25,499
Okay.

1086
00:36:28,390 --> 00:36:31,625
So all change is

1087
00:36:31,625 --> 00:36:35,375
has to codify and
complimentary components.

1088
00:36:35,375 --> 00:36:37,040
With this, as I said,

1089
00:36:37,040 --> 00:36:39,050
the search guessing
me it was R in

1090
00:36:39,050 --> 00:36:41,179
quantum theory,
then deployed.

1091
00:36:41,179 --> 00:36:42,650
This is sort of
repeats. So anyway,

1092
00:36:42,650 --> 00:36:43,729
they're the person
who didn't miss

1093
00:36:43,729 --> 00:36:45,515
this stuff debris gets it.

1094
00:36:45,515 --> 00:36:48,425
Max Planck, who supposedly

1095
00:36:48,425 --> 00:36:50,674
obsessed by the connection

1096
00:36:50,674 --> 00:36:51,980
of his concept of action,

1097
00:36:51,980 --> 00:36:53,119
the corner of action with

1098
00:36:53,119 --> 00:36:54,814
Leibnitz formulation
of action.

1099
00:36:54,814 --> 00:36:57,154
And we'll see this
come up again.

1100
00:36:57,154 --> 00:36:59,734
This link between
plank and Leibnitz,

1101
00:36:59,734 --> 00:37:01,325
I'm going to develop
that further.

1102
00:37:01,325 --> 00:37:02,629
So that's in part three.

1103
00:37:02,629 --> 00:37:04,279
We'll, we'll go into that.

1104
00:37:04,279 --> 00:37:06,169
So the last thing

1105
00:37:06,169 --> 00:37:10,070
in the engineering
world view,

1106
00:37:10,070 --> 00:37:10,819
and it does have

1107
00:37:10,819 --> 00:37:12,680
the same non-community
geometry

1108
00:37:12,680 --> 00:37:13,730
because you can
see it because you

1109
00:37:13,730 --> 00:37:14,180
already have

1110
00:37:14,180 --> 00:37:15,529
the complimentary
components in there

1111
00:37:15,529 --> 00:37:17,405
and complimentary

1112
00:37:17,405 --> 00:37:19,355
components are
not commutative.

1113
00:37:19,355 --> 00:37:23,359
It Kronos other
major essay

1114
00:37:23,359 --> 00:37:25,520
is called geometry
position in 1803,

1115
00:37:25,520 --> 00:37:27,440
it's really, it's an
essay on non-computer

1116
00:37:27,440 --> 00:37:30,559
you projected or
perspective geometry.

1117
00:37:30,559 --> 00:37:31,789
And perspective
geometry goes

1118
00:37:31,789 --> 00:37:33,785
back to the
ancient Greeks.

1119
00:37:33,785 --> 00:37:35,914
But also in that period

1120
00:37:35,914 --> 00:37:38,540
in round Ecole
Polytechnique and France.

1121
00:37:38,540 --> 00:37:40,940
There's this guy,
Gus bar Munch,

1122
00:37:40,940 --> 00:37:42,410
who was famous for

1123
00:37:42,410 --> 00:37:43,970
they see descriptive
geometry.

1124
00:37:43,970 --> 00:37:45,259
Differential
geometry is really

1125
00:37:45,259 --> 00:37:47,599
a projective
geometry project

1126
00:37:47,599 --> 00:37:49,670
in a lot of his followers,

1127
00:37:49,670 --> 00:37:52,850
facade and heavier
Coriolis consulate.

1128
00:37:52,850 --> 00:37:56,255
And that led up to
two punk Ray and

1129
00:37:56,255 --> 00:37:57,380
all those guys endorsed

1130
00:37:57,380 --> 00:37:58,850
this projective geometry

1131
00:37:58,850 --> 00:38:00,754
as the real geometry.

1132
00:38:00,754 --> 00:38:03,890
So it's more general

1133
00:38:03,890 --> 00:38:06,215
than any one of the
metric geometries.

1134
00:38:06,215 --> 00:38:08,719
That's kind of the key
things we get into.

1135
00:38:08,719 --> 00:38:11,270
Couple of variables
don't commute.

1136
00:38:11,270 --> 00:38:13,400
Consequently, reality
emerges selectively

1137
00:38:13,400 --> 00:38:15,950
and irreversibly
is kinda repeat.

1138
00:38:15,950 --> 00:38:18,080
Punk Korea
actually gives a

1139
00:38:18,080 --> 00:38:20,509
participant respective
definition of

1140
00:38:20,509 --> 00:38:21,559
space and time and is,

1141
00:38:21,559 --> 00:38:23,944
in his book is quite
fascinating how we

1142
00:38:23,944 --> 00:38:25,100
define space and time

1143
00:38:25,100 --> 00:38:26,764
by looking at different,

1144
00:38:26,764 --> 00:38:27,829
looking in different ways

1145
00:38:27,829 --> 00:38:29,089
and moving in
different ways.

1146
00:38:29,089 --> 00:38:32,914
It's all, it's all
based on action and

1147
00:38:32,914 --> 00:38:35,030
what we discover
and how we

1148
00:38:35,030 --> 00:38:36,380
all become observers have

1149
00:38:36,380 --> 00:38:37,880
become part of the world.

1150
00:38:37,880 --> 00:38:39,770
As humans and observers

1151
00:38:39,770 --> 00:38:41,105
unable to do things
in the world,

1152
00:38:41,105 --> 00:38:42,349
any kind of goes through

1153
00:38:42,349 --> 00:38:43,879
the process of
how we do that.

1154
00:38:43,879 --> 00:38:45,650
You see that
also in Piaget,

1155
00:38:45,650 --> 00:38:49,069
I think my positives

1156
00:38:49,069 --> 00:38:50,930
engineering framework
is more general.

1157
00:38:50,930 --> 00:38:53,630
So what is done in

1158
00:38:53,630 --> 00:38:55,219
this time thing at

1159
00:38:55,219 --> 00:38:57,874
a time dimension of
engineering practice,

1160
00:38:57,874 --> 00:38:59,839
he moves us from
the mechanical path

1161
00:38:59,839 --> 00:39:01,219
independent
thermodynamics,

1162
00:39:01,219 --> 00:39:02,510
which had thermodynamics,

1163
00:39:02,510 --> 00:39:03,529
you're familiar
with that term,

1164
00:39:03,529 --> 00:39:05,659
path independent
to a more general,

1165
00:39:05,659 --> 00:39:07,220
higher-dimensional
path independent

1166
00:39:07,220 --> 00:39:08,989
thermodynamics and
path-dependent.

1167
00:39:08,989 --> 00:39:10,729
Then you have to
take time and

1168
00:39:10,729 --> 00:39:13,070
how fast did you get
their path independent?

1169
00:39:13,070 --> 00:39:14,689
Is they just how high

1170
00:39:14,689 --> 00:39:17,029
or low Did you get up
or down the mountain?

1171
00:39:17,029 --> 00:39:18,950
But in path-dependent and

1172
00:39:18,950 --> 00:39:20,329
you wanted to know
what path did you

1173
00:39:20,329 --> 00:39:21,770
take and how
long did it take

1174
00:39:21,770 --> 00:39:23,735
you and what method
did you use?

1175
00:39:23,735 --> 00:39:27,049
Okay, So two hypotheses

1176
00:39:27,049 --> 00:39:28,490
here that need of
further collaboration.

1177
00:39:28,490 --> 00:39:30,904
I say, I'm going to
clean the second law of

1178
00:39:30,904 --> 00:39:31,954
engineering thermodynamics

1179
00:39:31,954 --> 00:39:33,845
is Carlos principal.

1180
00:39:33,845 --> 00:39:35,285
I just learned that

1181
00:39:35,285 --> 00:39:38,179
Pierre Duhem
actually got that.

1182
00:39:38,179 --> 00:39:40,070
Basically I'm saying
the first law

1183
00:39:40,070 --> 00:39:43,789
is conservation,
engineering, thermodynamics.

1184
00:39:43,789 --> 00:39:45,830
So this part three,

1185
00:39:45,830 --> 00:39:46,550
we're doing pretty good on

1186
00:39:46,550 --> 00:39:47,720
time, I think here.

1187
00:39:47,720 --> 00:39:49,220
Where did I did? So I

1188
00:39:49,220 --> 00:39:50,330
want to know like Lazada,

1189
00:39:50,330 --> 00:39:52,625
so brilliant where
his ideas came from.

1190
00:39:52,625 --> 00:39:54,350
What is historical
precursors

1191
00:39:54,350 --> 00:39:57,380
of Kronos mature ideas.

1192
00:39:57,380 --> 00:39:58,639
And Cardinal noted

1193
00:39:58,639 --> 00:40:00,649
that historians
selectively

1194
00:40:00,649 --> 00:40:03,109
neglected popular
essays on

1195
00:40:03,109 --> 00:40:03,919
machines in general,

1196
00:40:03,919 --> 00:40:04,880
it's an
eighteenth-century.

1197
00:40:04,880 --> 00:40:06,620
Know, if you look, I think

1198
00:40:06,620 --> 00:40:08,090
the earliest
person who got all

1199
00:40:08,090 --> 00:40:10,535
this was Christian
hooligans.

1200
00:40:10,535 --> 00:40:15,410
Make your presentation
on it was in April,

1201
00:40:15,410 --> 00:40:18,170
I guess, in Delft.

1202
00:40:18,170 --> 00:40:20,689
In, but he gave his
results to lightness.

1203
00:40:20,689 --> 00:40:21,949
So where do lightens
get it from?

1204
00:40:21,949 --> 00:40:23,075
He got it from
her ligands.

1205
00:40:23,075 --> 00:40:25,550
And it says to do the
compound pendulum.

1206
00:40:25,550 --> 00:40:27,169
All sorts of
interesting stuff

1207
00:40:27,169 --> 00:40:28,775
that Huygens
was working on.

1208
00:40:28,775 --> 00:40:32,000
And what Higgins,
Higgins boat,

1209
00:40:32,000 --> 00:40:34,460
his theory of
relativity is

1210
00:40:34,460 --> 00:40:36,830
not the same as

1211
00:40:36,830 --> 00:40:39,020
Galileo's theory
of relativity.

1212
00:40:39,020 --> 00:40:40,445
Galilean relativity,

1213
00:40:40,445 --> 00:40:42,574
which people seem
to be mistaking.

1214
00:40:42,574 --> 00:40:44,540
Anyway later layers in

1215
00:40:44,540 --> 00:40:45,694
this DLM baird I think,

1216
00:40:45,694 --> 00:40:47,270
is very important and

1217
00:40:47,270 --> 00:40:50,090
certainly important
to Cornell.

1218
00:40:50,090 --> 00:40:52,354
Cornell studied under
DLM very briefly

1219
00:40:52,354 --> 00:40:53,420
what the output
was very old

1220
00:40:53,420 --> 00:40:54,559
and I was very young,

1221
00:40:54,559 --> 00:40:56,780
but he got with the
calendar was saying,

1222
00:40:56,780 --> 00:40:58,849
and he uses a lot of
the same terminology.

1223
00:40:58,849 --> 00:41:00,710
Also the Bernoulli's,
Bernoulli's are

1224
00:41:00,710 --> 00:41:02,914
in this Euler column,

1225
00:41:02,914 --> 00:41:04,910
wrote articles on
machines in general

1226
00:41:04,910 --> 00:41:06,889
and Karnataka
to aliveness,

1227
00:41:06,889 --> 00:41:08,689
offered the most
general vision

1228
00:41:08,689 --> 00:41:11,405
of his proposed
mega shift.

1229
00:41:11,405 --> 00:41:14,449
In his most shift from
statics to dynamics.

1230
00:41:14,449 --> 00:41:15,979
So what I'm trying to
try and do here is I'm

1231
00:41:15,979 --> 00:41:17,750
trying to take all
those guys and I'm

1232
00:41:17,750 --> 00:41:20,480
just going to try and
go after this stuff in

1233
00:41:20,480 --> 00:41:21,920
terms of what Leibniz
did it because

1234
00:41:21,920 --> 00:41:23,450
he makes this really nice,

1235
00:41:23,450 --> 00:41:25,025
met a parent, what I
call a minute paradigm

1236
00:41:25,025 --> 00:41:27,815
shift from statics
to dynamics.

1237
00:41:27,815 --> 00:41:30,469
And Lazaro actually
comments in

1238
00:41:30,469 --> 00:41:33,949
this in his essay on

1239
00:41:33,949 --> 00:41:37,519
positions that he's
trying to complete

1240
00:41:37,519 --> 00:41:41,525
Luz Ares or likenesses
dynamics project,

1241
00:41:41,525 --> 00:41:44,900
which he called
analysis cities.

1242
00:41:44,900 --> 00:41:48,800
So this is a
paradigm shift

1243
00:41:48,800 --> 00:41:49,819
from statics to dynamics.

1244
00:41:49,819 --> 00:41:50,734
What's going on here?

1245
00:41:50,734 --> 00:41:53,105
Because it's from
a mechanics.

1246
00:41:53,105 --> 00:41:54,619
The Science, Engineering,

1247
00:41:54,619 --> 00:41:56,734
not advanced
within science.

1248
00:41:56,734 --> 00:41:57,919
I'm going to
call it a medic.

1249
00:41:57,919 --> 00:41:58,790
It's kind of a medic.

1250
00:41:58,790 --> 00:42:00,814
Kuhnian, Kuhnian
revolutions.

1251
00:42:00,814 --> 00:42:02,059
Kuhnian revolutions
are sort

1252
00:42:02,059 --> 00:42:03,079
of within science.

1253
00:42:03,079 --> 00:42:04,520
They're all scientific
revolutions.

1254
00:42:04,520 --> 00:42:05,854
One side of erosion X,

1255
00:42:05,854 --> 00:42:10,069
this is essentially
a paradigm shift.

1256
00:42:10,069 --> 00:42:12,665
This is goes a step
beyond this is going from

1257
00:42:12,665 --> 00:42:15,259
a completely
different system

1258
00:42:15,259 --> 00:42:16,205
is going to engineering.

1259
00:42:16,205 --> 00:42:16,730
Okay?

1260
00:42:16,730 --> 00:42:19,009
So for instance, one of

1261
00:42:19,009 --> 00:42:20,899
the major players is
Princeton's historian

1262
00:42:20,899 --> 00:42:22,625
of science, Gillespie.

1263
00:42:22,625 --> 00:42:25,459
Identify as a core
eighteenth-century issue,

1264
00:42:25,459 --> 00:42:27,364
as a shift from statics.

1265
00:42:27,364 --> 00:42:29,030
Is he calls the
science of mechanics,

1266
00:42:29,030 --> 00:42:31,205
dynamics, the science
and machines.

1267
00:42:31,205 --> 00:42:33,574
Mature lightest focuses on

1268
00:42:33,574 --> 00:42:35,720
engines and engineers is,

1269
00:42:35,720 --> 00:42:37,279
we'll see Dewey and

1270
00:42:37,279 --> 00:42:38,719
pragmatism gets a lot

1271
00:42:38,719 --> 00:42:39,799
of this stuff and he sees

1272
00:42:39,799 --> 00:42:41,239
this mega Schiff from

1273
00:42:41,239 --> 00:42:42,259
the spectator to the

1274
00:42:42,259 --> 00:42:44,000
participant representation
of inquiry.

1275
00:42:44,000 --> 00:42:45,019
I like a lot of doing

1276
00:42:45,019 --> 00:42:46,834
a lot of pregnant
to stuff is

1277
00:42:46,834 --> 00:42:48,680
I think an early attempted

1278
00:42:48,680 --> 00:42:51,064
to a philosophy
of engineering.

1279
00:42:51,064 --> 00:42:55,534
Okay, so there's a
participant ontology,

1280
00:42:55,534 --> 00:42:57,649
Leibniz dynamics.

1281
00:42:57,649 --> 00:42:59,345
So I would say it's
participatory.

1282
00:42:59,345 --> 00:43:01,310
The statics worldview is,

1283
00:43:01,310 --> 00:43:03,004
I like to think it
was a billiard ball.

1284
00:43:03,004 --> 00:43:03,679
World.

1285
00:43:03,679 --> 00:43:07,459
Everything goes in linear
paths and contact,

1286
00:43:07,459 --> 00:43:09,319
causality and
everything like that.

1287
00:43:09,319 --> 00:43:11,120
Here's the other
particle physicists

1288
00:43:11,120 --> 00:43:13,385
do all that crap
still today.

1289
00:43:13,385 --> 00:43:15,935
Dynamics.

1290
00:43:15,935 --> 00:43:18,065
It turns out it's a world

1291
00:43:18,065 --> 00:43:19,310
of entities that with

1292
00:43:19,310 --> 00:43:21,080
internal energy
there like people

1293
00:43:21,080 --> 00:43:23,540
walking around,
organisms and agents.

1294
00:43:23,540 --> 00:43:24,950
And you'll see that
shift and I'm gonna

1295
00:43:24,950 --> 00:43:26,795
go into details of that.

1296
00:43:26,795 --> 00:43:30,169
So these agents embody
the living force,

1297
00:43:30,169 --> 00:43:32,225
the capacity to
effect change.

1298
00:43:32,225 --> 00:43:33,830
In fact, agents that are

1299
00:43:33,830 --> 00:43:36,050
used are metabolic
engines.

1300
00:43:36,050 --> 00:43:38,269
And again, I repeat
Kronos epiphany

1301
00:43:38,269 --> 00:43:40,130
were engines in a
world of engineering.

1302
00:43:40,130 --> 00:43:45,949
So this whole idea
of the lives,

1303
00:43:45,949 --> 00:43:46,835
he says what's called

1304
00:43:46,835 --> 00:43:49,010
organism IC
engine ontology

1305
00:43:49,010 --> 00:43:52,385
is a great book on
this by and Smith.

1306
00:43:52,385 --> 00:43:54,934
Flex much stuff is
called Divine machines.

1307
00:43:54,934 --> 00:43:56,090
Leibnitz, in the science

1308
00:43:56,090 --> 00:44:00,050
of life and aliveness,

1309
00:44:00,050 --> 00:44:02,314
someone points later,

1310
00:44:02,314 --> 00:44:05,015
more mature stuff
because organisms,

1311
00:44:05,015 --> 00:44:07,070
organisms are
like hydraulic

1312
00:44:07,070 --> 00:44:08,600
pyrotechnics engines.

1313
00:44:08,600 --> 00:44:12,470
The technique is the
fire part. Hydraulics.

1314
00:44:12,470 --> 00:44:13,670
He sees that's
how we, that's

1315
00:44:13,670 --> 00:44:15,319
how we use these.

1316
00:44:15,319 --> 00:44:16,639
We can move our
limbs and stuff

1317
00:44:16,639 --> 00:44:17,780
by using hydraulics,

1318
00:44:17,780 --> 00:44:20,734
which is really a lot
of ways very brilliant.

1319
00:44:20,734 --> 00:44:22,909
So these, these
metabolic machines

1320
00:44:22,909 --> 00:44:24,349
are best understood in

1321
00:44:24,349 --> 00:44:25,760
terms of their
final causes.

1322
00:44:25,760 --> 00:44:27,574
Each part is coordinated

1323
00:44:27,574 --> 00:44:29,825
for its intended use.
And I'll go into that.

1324
00:44:29,825 --> 00:44:31,414
Reality is an integer

1325
00:44:31,414 --> 00:44:34,360
composed of engines all
the way up and down.

1326
00:44:34,360 --> 00:44:38,180
This recalls
Plato's same thing.

1327
00:44:38,180 --> 00:44:40,160
So this engines
all the way down

1328
00:44:40,160 --> 00:44:42,559
as soon as you hear all
the time in Leibniz.

1329
00:44:42,559 --> 00:44:44,989
Okay, so just for evening

1330
00:44:44,989 --> 00:44:47,194
when I developed this
theme elsewhere,

1331
00:44:47,194 --> 00:44:48,679
you can go to
YouTube and search

1332
00:44:48,679 --> 00:44:50,885
for systems
engineering worldview.

1333
00:44:50,885 --> 00:44:54,815
You'll see SME I did
a few months ago.

1334
00:44:54,815 --> 00:44:58,429
Okay, so net a paradigm
shift the system.

1335
00:44:58,429 --> 00:45:01,009
So aliveness dynamics
is holistic, okay?

1336
00:45:01,009 --> 00:45:01,609
And this is where you see

1337
00:45:01,609 --> 00:45:02,959
the systems theory part.

1338
00:45:02,959 --> 00:45:07,974
So the shift is from a,
mechanical, statics,

1339
00:45:07,974 --> 00:45:09,789
causal a causes B

1340
00:45:09,789 --> 00:45:12,325
paradigm is sort of
thing as you like,

1341
00:45:12,325 --> 00:45:13,900
you know, we talking
about, okay?

1342
00:45:13,900 --> 00:45:16,180
Okay, this force
hits this body B.

1343
00:45:16,180 --> 00:45:16,809
Now we want to know what

1344
00:45:16,809 --> 00:45:18,129
the trajectory of B is.

1345
00:45:18,129 --> 00:45:20,799
Don't think much
about a. Ages came in

1346
00:45:20,799 --> 00:45:22,389
there and hit it
with something,

1347
00:45:22,389 --> 00:45:23,439
a hit that thing.

1348
00:45:23,439 --> 00:45:25,569
And now it's going,
now it has this input,

1349
00:45:25,569 --> 00:45:27,039
is this momentum and

1350
00:45:27,039 --> 00:45:28,465
is going in
this direction.

1351
00:45:28,465 --> 00:45:29,529
Maybe it gets hit again

1352
00:45:29,529 --> 00:45:30,729
and then it goes
another direction.

1353
00:45:30,729 --> 00:45:33,940
But what happens
in Leibnitz?

1354
00:45:33,940 --> 00:45:36,595
The a and the B are
equally important.

1355
00:45:36,595 --> 00:45:40,675
So when a hits
B, B hits a.

1356
00:45:40,675 --> 00:45:42,819
Okay? So they're both,

1357
00:45:42,819 --> 00:45:44,094
they're both
doing it and say

1358
00:45:44,094 --> 00:45:45,400
it's a dynamic interplay.

1359
00:45:45,400 --> 00:45:46,540
So the world is not made

1360
00:45:46,540 --> 00:45:49,299
up of external causes.

1361
00:45:49,299 --> 00:45:51,010
A is coming in and hitting

1362
00:45:51,010 --> 00:45:54,190
be a problem with
Newtonian clockwork.

1363
00:45:54,190 --> 00:45:55,810
It didn't do
anything until

1364
00:45:55,810 --> 00:45:57,729
God came in and
smacked it.

1365
00:45:57,729 --> 00:45:59,529
Smack DAB are welded up.

1366
00:45:59,529 --> 00:46:01,780
Well, you don't
need in lightness,

1367
00:46:01,780 --> 00:46:03,835
you don't need anymore
external causes.

1368
00:46:03,835 --> 00:46:05,709
Everything ends up
being internal.

1369
00:46:05,709 --> 00:46:10,735
So everything is
interrelated.

1370
00:46:10,735 --> 00:46:13,554
So there are no
isolated systems,

1371
00:46:13,554 --> 00:46:15,460
okay, So it's holistic.

1372
00:46:15,460 --> 00:46:17,530
Everything is interacting
with everything

1373
00:46:17,530 --> 00:46:19,630
else in the system.

1374
00:46:19,630 --> 00:46:22,629
You don't need external
changes already.

1375
00:46:22,629 --> 00:46:23,980
See the same expressions,

1376
00:46:23,980 --> 00:46:25,614
changes already present.

1377
00:46:25,614 --> 00:46:27,820
Okay? I don't need to
account for changes

1378
00:46:27,820 --> 00:46:29,079
in the world is

1379
00:46:29,079 --> 00:46:30,625
changing. That's the
nature of the world.

1380
00:46:30,625 --> 00:46:33,400
And it's spontaneous
changes proteins.

1381
00:46:33,400 --> 00:46:34,479
Okay, so again, the Lord,

1382
00:46:34,479 --> 00:46:37,359
so the complementarity in

1383
00:46:37,359 --> 00:46:42,325
enlivens, you think
of it this way.

1384
00:46:42,325 --> 00:46:44,815
In Newtonian linear motion

1385
00:46:44,815 --> 00:46:46,975
has an unnatural
resistance.

1386
00:46:46,975 --> 00:46:48,220
Okay? So if you

1387
00:46:48,220 --> 00:46:49,645
just say, oh, and
Newton, you know,

1388
00:46:49,645 --> 00:46:51,340
somebody gets
started, it just goes

1389
00:46:51,340 --> 00:46:53,140
unless it's hit by
something else.

1390
00:46:53,140 --> 00:46:54,609
Well, that's like
perpetual motion.

1391
00:46:54,609 --> 00:46:56,680
Like Is that
what he meant?

1392
00:46:56,680 --> 00:46:58,630
You know, like,
oh, something

1393
00:46:58,630 --> 00:47:00,280
set in motion
will continue

1394
00:47:00,280 --> 00:47:01,929
in motion unless it's

1395
00:47:01,929 --> 00:47:04,190
interfered with her
or his interference.

1396
00:47:04,190 --> 00:47:05,950
Interference
is built in to

1397
00:47:05,950 --> 00:47:08,769
any practical situation.
Natural resistance.

1398
00:47:08,769 --> 00:47:10,090
Okay, so I think

1399
00:47:10,090 --> 00:47:11,649
in the practical
Newtonian thing,

1400
00:47:11,649 --> 00:47:14,634
you have both the motion
and its resistance.

1401
00:47:14,634 --> 00:47:16,480
And we, I understand,

1402
00:47:16,480 --> 00:47:18,339
I like to understand
what happened with

1403
00:47:18,339 --> 00:47:20,830
lightness as he
enfolds these two.

1404
00:47:20,830 --> 00:47:24,370
Okay, So this holistic
dynamical system

1405
00:47:24,370 --> 00:47:25,420
and its parts are now

1406
00:47:25,420 --> 00:47:27,144
composed of complimentary,

1407
00:47:27,144 --> 00:47:28,749
but they use these
terms, soliciting

1408
00:47:28,749 --> 00:47:30,279
and retarding forces.

1409
00:47:30,279 --> 00:47:32,529
A is interacting
with the bees,

1410
00:47:32,529 --> 00:47:35,545
interacting dynamically
oscillating.

1411
00:47:35,545 --> 00:47:38,395
They're compensating
each other

1412
00:47:38,395 --> 00:47:40,375
like a natural feedback.

1413
00:47:40,375 --> 00:47:42,789
This is going to go
into this a little bit.

1414
00:47:42,789 --> 00:47:45,130
Hogan says it
with a pendulum.

1415
00:47:45,130 --> 00:47:46,900
They're like a pendulum

1416
00:47:46,900 --> 00:47:48,280
is going back-and-forth.

1417
00:47:48,280 --> 00:47:49,704
It's naturally
feeding back.

1418
00:47:49,704 --> 00:47:53,769
Okay? So this
internal energy

1419
00:47:53,769 --> 00:47:55,119
is composite and

1420
00:47:55,119 --> 00:47:56,230
we have to give
it a new name,

1421
00:47:56,230 --> 00:47:57,910
and that's where we
get the living force.

1422
00:47:57,910 --> 00:47:58,870
Miss Viva.

1423
00:47:58,870 --> 00:48:02,124
It's this internal
energy that has this,

1424
00:48:02,124 --> 00:48:03,535
from a mechanical
point of view is

1425
00:48:03,535 --> 00:48:06,234
n-fold as very
different world.

1426
00:48:06,234 --> 00:48:08,340
So this in turn

1427
00:48:08,340 --> 00:48:09,759
is neither created
nor destroyed.

1428
00:48:09,759 --> 00:48:11,499
It just says it's
already there,

1429
00:48:11,499 --> 00:48:13,030
it's already there
and didn't go away.

1430
00:48:13,030 --> 00:48:15,915
It's always conserved.
This is, again,

1431
00:48:15,915 --> 00:48:17,859
I call Saudis first law,

1432
00:48:17,859 --> 00:48:19,975
which is concentration
of living force.

1433
00:48:19,975 --> 00:48:22,269
Okay, so this is

1434
00:48:22,269 --> 00:48:23,725
important for the
systems people.

1435
00:48:23,725 --> 00:48:25,480
So this dynamic
equilibrium is

1436
00:48:25,480 --> 00:48:28,779
a feedback system and

1437
00:48:28,779 --> 00:48:30,910
it leads to this
higher geometry.

1438
00:48:30,910 --> 00:48:32,410
And this is a tricky part,

1439
00:48:32,410 --> 00:48:34,599
this, this movement,

1440
00:48:34,599 --> 00:48:35,619
the fact that
we have to go

1441
00:48:35,619 --> 00:48:36,774
to a higher geometry,

1442
00:48:36,774 --> 00:48:38,140
to a different
new or not in

1443
00:48:38,140 --> 00:48:40,375
a rectilinear
spacetime anymore.

1444
00:48:40,375 --> 00:48:42,849
We're not in an Newtonian

1445
00:48:42,849 --> 00:48:44,529
or in a Maxwell anything.

1446
00:48:44,529 --> 00:48:45,759
And this is a tough
part, been working

1447
00:48:45,759 --> 00:48:46,509
a lot on this and

1448
00:48:46,509 --> 00:48:47,409
I'm not going to go
ahead and do it,

1449
00:48:47,409 --> 00:48:49,660
but think of it as in

1450
00:48:49,660 --> 00:48:50,739
terms of two
different types

1451
00:48:50,739 --> 00:48:52,645
of equilibrium,
static equilibrium.

1452
00:48:52,645 --> 00:48:56,410
Newton's third law,
equal and opposite.

1453
00:48:56,410 --> 00:48:58,870
With equal and
opposite or linear

1454
00:48:58,870 --> 00:49:00,519
equal and opposites.

1455
00:49:00,519 --> 00:49:01,809
In dynamic equilibrium,

1456
00:49:01,809 --> 00:49:03,280
the eNB interactions
are not

1457
00:49:03,280 --> 00:49:04,975
mechanically symmetric.

1458
00:49:04,975 --> 00:49:09,970
Okay? So the term likeness

1459
00:49:09,970 --> 00:49:13,254
and kernel uses the
relationships transverse.

1460
00:49:13,254 --> 00:49:16,584
So they have an obtuse
and acute angles.

1461
00:49:16,584 --> 00:49:19,089
I mean, he could imagine,

1462
00:49:19,089 --> 00:49:25,075
see it in a diagram in
the lower right there.

1463
00:49:25,075 --> 00:49:28,960
Thing that, that the
going up and going

1464
00:49:28,960 --> 00:49:31,179
down or angularly
different

1465
00:49:31,179 --> 00:49:32,620
and the same with
the pendulum.

1466
00:49:32,620 --> 00:49:36,369
Okay? So what
happens is there's

1467
00:49:36,369 --> 00:49:38,110
a continuous
oscillation or

1468
00:49:38,110 --> 00:49:40,630
cycling of the whole
and the parts.

1469
00:49:40,630 --> 00:49:43,404
And natural systemic
feedback system

1470
00:49:43,404 --> 00:49:44,770
each feeds the other.

1471
00:49:44,770 --> 00:49:46,750
I'll give some examples
of that later.

1472
00:49:46,750 --> 00:49:49,374
Dynamic equilibrium
are continuous

1473
00:49:49,374 --> 00:49:52,060
and they are also
net productive.

1474
00:49:52,060 --> 00:49:55,149
So the image here is
the cyclic aspect is

1475
00:49:55,149 --> 00:49:58,809
the engine was
our emphasizes.

1476
00:49:58,809 --> 00:50:01,374
There's no mechanical
gated engine.

1477
00:50:01,374 --> 00:50:03,384
Conservation. We're not

1478
00:50:03,384 --> 00:50:04,929
increasing energy
here at all.

1479
00:50:04,929 --> 00:50:06,250
We're just redirecting it.

1480
00:50:06,250 --> 00:50:12,430
Okay? So you
mentioned before

1481
00:50:12,430 --> 00:50:14,185
these two symmetry
principles

1482
00:50:14,185 --> 00:50:17,815
and what Leibniz does

1483
00:50:17,815 --> 00:50:19,584
in this correspondence
with Clark,

1484
00:50:19,584 --> 00:50:20,979
he goes every
single principle

1485
00:50:20,979 --> 00:50:22,360
of identity, again,
discernible.

1486
00:50:22,360 --> 00:50:24,984
What he argues is
essentially that

1487
00:50:24,984 --> 00:50:28,375
the Newtonian model of

1488
00:50:28,375 --> 00:50:31,089
reality has this symmetry
in this universe.

1489
00:50:31,089 --> 00:50:34,074
Universality says the
whole universe is,

1490
00:50:34,074 --> 00:50:35,605
your whole universe
is uniform.

1491
00:50:35,605 --> 00:50:37,780
He's, he can't tell one
place from another.

1492
00:50:37,780 --> 00:50:41,410
Like This. Doesn't
make any sense.

1493
00:50:41,410 --> 00:50:42,550
So it can't extend,
things can't

1494
00:50:42,550 --> 00:50:43,944
exist in that world.

1495
00:50:43,944 --> 00:50:45,729
And the same goes
if you flip over

1496
00:50:45,729 --> 00:50:47,605
into the Maxwellian
spacetime,

1497
00:50:47,605 --> 00:50:49,660
they both have
this mechanical

1498
00:50:49,660 --> 00:50:51,069
continuity and what
he's saying and the

1499
00:50:51,069 --> 00:50:52,990
principal NAD
into symbols you

1500
00:50:52,990 --> 00:50:55,119
mechanical continuity
or uniformity is,

1501
00:50:55,119 --> 00:50:56,275
don't make any sense.

1502
00:50:56,275 --> 00:50:57,505
Nothing can
happen in them.

1503
00:50:57,505 --> 00:51:00,264
Okay? So he goes down

1504
00:51:00,264 --> 00:51:03,250
to this higher
order geometry,

1505
00:51:03,250 --> 00:51:04,915
which is a higher
order continuity.

1506
00:51:04,915 --> 00:51:06,519
Remember place
and time as both

1507
00:51:06,519 --> 00:51:09,130
a continuous sameness
in a discontinuous.

1508
00:51:09,130 --> 00:51:12,295
This is again, it refers
back to Archimedes.

1509
00:51:12,295 --> 00:51:14,110
So the indeterminacy,

1510
00:51:14,110 --> 00:51:14,920
I'm switching around here.

1511
00:51:14,920 --> 00:51:17,169
The indeterminacy in life

1512
00:51:17,169 --> 00:51:19,314
is really comes with
the concept of action.

1513
00:51:19,314 --> 00:51:21,519
Early lives is current

1514
00:51:21,519 --> 00:51:23,559
concerned to count
for contingency,

1515
00:51:23,559 --> 00:51:24,340
you might guess everything

1516
00:51:24,340 --> 00:51:25,435
in the world necessary.

1517
00:51:25,435 --> 00:51:27,564
I mean, like this one
is deterministic thing.

1518
00:51:27,564 --> 00:51:29,665
Now he says, Look, it's
contingent, isn't it?

1519
00:51:29,665 --> 00:51:31,119
It's a beautiful book by

1520
00:51:31,119 --> 00:51:33,204
this guy, McDonald's
Harvard guy.

1521
00:51:33,204 --> 00:51:35,214
In any place I exist.

1522
00:51:35,214 --> 00:51:38,589
He identifies in
lightness optics

1523
00:51:38,589 --> 00:51:40,074
where he talks
about the path

1524
00:51:40,074 --> 00:51:41,289
of refractive Mike any,

1525
00:51:41,289 --> 00:51:43,165
any, calls that
an optimum.

1526
00:51:43,165 --> 00:51:45,220
And out of this
he develops,

1527
00:51:45,220 --> 00:51:46,525
which I think
is brilliant.

1528
00:51:46,525 --> 00:51:47,709
And it's going to read
the book, what he

1529
00:51:47,709 --> 00:51:50,515
calls his principle
of optimization.

1530
00:51:50,515 --> 00:51:52,630
So actions are optimum

1531
00:51:52,630 --> 00:51:54,264
and this is where
you get best,

1532
00:51:54,264 --> 00:51:55,480
best of all
possible worlds

1533
00:51:55,480 --> 00:51:59,379
is an optimum actions

1534
00:51:59,379 --> 00:52:00,894
and optimum forms, okay?

1535
00:52:00,894 --> 00:52:03,340
So aliveness
defines action

1536
00:52:03,340 --> 00:52:04,870
as a higher-order optimum.

1537
00:52:04,870 --> 00:52:06,190
A composite ratio of

1538
00:52:06,190 --> 00:52:07,930
two irreducible ideal

1539
00:52:07,930 --> 00:52:08,995
complimentary components.

1540
00:52:08,995 --> 00:52:11,560
Action is, in the abstract

1541
00:52:11,560 --> 00:52:13,600
is arbitrary or
indeterminate.

1542
00:52:13,600 --> 00:52:16,999
In this guy though
is quite good.

1543
00:52:17,130 --> 00:52:19,240
Points out that this is an

1544
00:52:19,240 --> 00:52:20,890
criticized and at
least lightness

1545
00:52:20,890 --> 00:52:22,600
to this idea of
analysis cities,

1546
00:52:22,600 --> 00:52:24,009
which is to say it's

1547
00:52:24,009 --> 00:52:25,419
arbitrary and
the abstract,

1548
00:52:25,419 --> 00:52:27,414
but in specific
situations,

1549
00:52:27,414 --> 00:52:28,674
there's always an optimum.

1550
00:52:28,674 --> 00:52:32,569
Okay? Alright, so,

1551
00:52:33,920 --> 00:52:36,419
so then Leiden is realizes

1552
00:52:36,419 --> 00:52:38,324
that actions are
what agents do.

1553
00:52:38,324 --> 00:52:40,799
Agents or participant
engineers with

1554
00:52:40,799 --> 00:52:42,060
internal entry
or the capacity

1555
00:52:42,060 --> 00:52:43,560
of that change
for formwork.

1556
00:52:43,560 --> 00:52:45,285
Actions he realizes

1557
00:52:45,285 --> 00:52:47,939
are undertaken
for reasons.

1558
00:52:47,939 --> 00:52:49,919
Aliveness approach
to understanding

1559
00:52:49,919 --> 00:52:51,239
reality in terms of

1560
00:52:51,239 --> 00:52:54,494
optimum path has
an optimum systems

1561
00:52:54,494 --> 00:52:56,129
is his principle of
sufficient reason.

1562
00:52:56,129 --> 00:52:57,719
Anything, anything
that's happening

1563
00:52:57,719 --> 00:52:59,189
has a spatial reasoning.

1564
00:52:59,189 --> 00:53:00,825
It exists, has to have
a specific reason

1565
00:53:00,825 --> 00:53:02,880
because it's an
engineering.

1566
00:53:02,880 --> 00:53:05,820
So I like this guy and

1567
00:53:05,820 --> 00:53:08,220
this picks up
50 years later

1568
00:53:08,220 --> 00:53:10,275
on my business dynamics,

1569
00:53:10,275 --> 00:53:12,914
which had provoked his
Vis viva controversy.

1570
00:53:12,914 --> 00:53:13,950
The kind of
review is really

1571
00:53:13,950 --> 00:53:15,029
for the mechanics guys,

1572
00:53:15,029 --> 00:53:16,534
rational mechanics.
They want to know what

1573
00:53:16,534 --> 00:53:19,195
What was the
real mechanics?

1574
00:53:19,195 --> 00:53:21,294
In order to do they
didn't know which

1575
00:53:21,294 --> 00:53:22,570
was the principle
conservation,

1576
00:53:22,570 --> 00:53:26,380
what's conserved, MV
momentum or MV squared.

1577
00:53:26,380 --> 00:53:28,420
And it's a big issue in

1578
00:53:28,420 --> 00:53:29,845
accord is famous article

1579
00:53:29,845 --> 00:53:31,239
will portray it
gives us an MIC.

1580
00:53:31,239 --> 00:53:32,349
Gas use is nowhere in

1581
00:53:32,349 --> 00:53:34,765
both. They're
both considered.

1582
00:53:34,765 --> 00:53:36,549
All real change is a

1583
00:53:36,549 --> 00:53:39,174
composite with irreducible
aspects of both.

1584
00:53:39,174 --> 00:53:40,795
In the MV squared.

1585
00:53:40,795 --> 00:53:42,670
Again, new concept
of change.

1586
00:53:42,670 --> 00:53:44,050
He comes up with
action. He's accused

1587
00:53:44,050 --> 00:53:45,580
of stealing is
from aliveness.

1588
00:53:45,580 --> 00:53:46,209
I don't know
whether he did or

1589
00:53:46,209 --> 00:53:47,560
not, didn't matter me.

1590
00:53:47,560 --> 00:53:49,329
Okay, so actions are

1591
00:53:49,329 --> 00:53:51,100
optimum balanced
combinations

1592
00:53:51,100 --> 00:53:52,299
of MV, MV squared.

1593
00:53:52,299 --> 00:53:55,720
Now, my favorite example

1594
00:53:55,720 --> 00:53:57,865
which Euler endorsed
is the orbit.

1595
00:53:57,865 --> 00:53:59,769
So you see here
that envy and MV

1596
00:53:59,769 --> 00:54:03,010
squared R form a
regular orbit.

1597
00:54:03,010 --> 00:54:05,500
Now if you're a
computer program

1598
00:54:05,500 --> 00:54:06,879
where we used to
try and launch

1599
00:54:06,879 --> 00:54:08,020
satellites are
trying to do that.

1600
00:54:08,020 --> 00:54:09,789
It's really hard because

1601
00:54:09,789 --> 00:54:10,810
you had to get
that satellite

1602
00:54:10,810 --> 00:54:12,189
at the right
velocity and it

1603
00:54:12,189 --> 00:54:13,765
has to be exactly
the right angle.

1604
00:54:13,765 --> 00:54:15,069
Otherwise it
goes up, comes

1605
00:54:15,069 --> 00:54:17,514
crashing back down, or
it makes me wonder.

1606
00:54:17,514 --> 00:54:20,755
The creation of a
regular orbit is hard.

1607
00:54:20,755 --> 00:54:22,419
And he says it's
like the solution to

1608
00:54:22,419 --> 00:54:25,630
an engineering
problem. Repeat that.

1609
00:54:25,630 --> 00:54:27,385
Creation of
irregular orbit

1610
00:54:27,385 --> 00:54:28,719
is like the solution to

1611
00:54:28,719 --> 00:54:30,609
an engineering
problem where

1612
00:54:30,609 --> 00:54:31,989
a reason has a purpose,

1613
00:54:31,989 --> 00:54:33,550
so lightweight and sees

1614
00:54:33,550 --> 00:54:35,605
everything in
the universe as,

1615
00:54:35,605 --> 00:54:39,340
as created by God,

1616
00:54:39,340 --> 00:54:41,710
the engineer's, the
structure, infections,

1617
00:54:41,710 --> 00:54:42,865
reality or dynamic

1618
00:54:42,865 --> 00:54:45,234
optimization to
complementary components.

1619
00:54:45,234 --> 00:54:46,930
You can again look at my

1620
00:54:46,930 --> 00:54:48,639
YouTube thing
extraction venture to

1621
00:54:48,639 --> 00:54:49,989
reality and understood
in terms of

1622
00:54:49,989 --> 00:54:52,120
engineering reasons,

1623
00:54:52,120 --> 00:54:53,920
he moves us from causes,

1624
00:54:53,920 --> 00:54:55,959
two reasons, principle
of sufficient reason.

1625
00:54:55,959 --> 00:54:57,670
Now, it's entertaining.

1626
00:54:57,670 --> 00:54:59,559
So this idea of actions,

1627
00:54:59,559 --> 00:55:01,060
historically
it was ignored

1628
00:55:01,060 --> 00:55:03,745
by the dominant
mathematical physics.

1629
00:55:03,745 --> 00:55:04,480
I didn't want to

1630
00:55:04,480 --> 00:55:05,874
think about action
or anything.

1631
00:55:05,874 --> 00:55:09,549
They redefined it in
the garage and stuff.

1632
00:55:09,549 --> 00:55:11,439
This higher-order action

1633
00:55:11,439 --> 00:55:12,744
re-emerges in
quantum theory.

1634
00:55:12,744 --> 00:55:16,690
Clunk realizes that
moca toys action

1635
00:55:16,690 --> 00:55:18,039
is the same as his,

1636
00:55:18,039 --> 00:55:20,409
his quantum of action in

1637
00:55:20,409 --> 00:55:22,629
this books is playing

1638
00:55:22,629 --> 00:55:24,250
was obsessed with
mobile transaction.

1639
00:55:24,250 --> 00:55:25,360
He later realized that it

1640
00:55:25,360 --> 00:55:27,355
originated with,
with Leibniz.

1641
00:55:27,355 --> 00:55:28,960
Unfortunately,
you're going man,

1642
00:55:28,960 --> 00:55:30,190
who is Trump
wrote this book.

1643
00:55:30,190 --> 00:55:33,984
A lot of people read
the dismissed plunks,

1644
00:55:33,984 --> 00:55:35,530
supposed to insight and

1645
00:55:35,530 --> 00:55:36,609
rationally reconstruct

1646
00:55:36,609 --> 00:55:37,990
the whole thing
of action and

1647
00:55:37,990 --> 00:55:40,644
mechanical concepts
of Lagrange.

1648
00:55:40,644 --> 00:55:42,369
Anyway, they screwed up.

1649
00:55:42,369 --> 00:55:43,735
I think plonk is right.

1650
00:55:43,735 --> 00:55:45,280
And I think that he said,

1651
00:55:45,280 --> 00:55:46,810
he said we should
look at, we

1652
00:55:46,810 --> 00:55:48,459
want to understand
quantum theory more.

1653
00:55:48,459 --> 00:55:52,059
We should look at likeness
concept of action.

1654
00:55:52,059 --> 00:55:53,709
Okay, So now we'll give

1655
00:55:53,709 --> 00:55:55,689
it a couple of
examples here.

1656
00:55:55,689 --> 00:55:58,810
So this dynamic
equilibrium idea.

1657
00:55:58,810 --> 00:56:00,370
So if you look
at our Earth,

1658
00:56:00,370 --> 00:56:02,470
is to ask what is

1659
00:56:02,470 --> 00:56:06,085
it static in one sentence,
it's homeostatic.

1660
00:56:06,085 --> 00:56:09,369
But it's a dynamic
homeostasis.

1661
00:56:09,369 --> 00:56:10,629
And it's been that way.

1662
00:56:10,629 --> 00:56:11,649
I mean, it's arguable.
That has been

1663
00:56:11,649 --> 00:56:13,029
over 3 billion years,

1664
00:56:13,029 --> 00:56:14,139
three-and-a-half
billion years.

1665
00:56:14,139 --> 00:56:16,119
And we're thinking
this is the guy thing.

1666
00:56:16,119 --> 00:56:19,074
So the O2 and
CO2 work agendas

1667
00:56:19,074 --> 00:56:21,039
are complimentary
and they feed

1668
00:56:21,039 --> 00:56:22,210
each other just like

1669
00:56:22,210 --> 00:56:23,500
with the other
thing I've seen.

1670
00:56:23,500 --> 00:56:25,114
They're like if each other

1671
00:56:25,114 --> 00:56:26,950
and what is produced.

1672
00:56:26,950 --> 00:56:28,735
And the argument
is that if

1673
00:56:28,735 --> 00:56:31,585
there is an equilibrium,
we'll then what?

1674
00:56:31,585 --> 00:56:33,100
Because there's all
this work going on.

1675
00:56:33,100 --> 00:56:35,349
Well, that's what
the work does.

1676
00:56:35,349 --> 00:56:36,970
It's an organizational
development

1677
00:56:36,970 --> 00:56:38,680
and the structures and
functions reality,

1678
00:56:38,680 --> 00:56:41,739
it's not increasing
the amount of energy.

1679
00:56:41,739 --> 00:56:42,999
Other thing is
just changing

1680
00:56:42,999 --> 00:56:45,295
the organizational
structure of the Earth.

1681
00:56:45,295 --> 00:56:48,775
So the Earth. Sagan and

1682
00:56:48,775 --> 00:56:50,545
Snyder and this
whenever we'll call it

1683
00:56:50,545 --> 00:56:52,269
the cool and
basically argued that

1684
00:56:52,269 --> 00:56:52,750
the Earth is

1685
00:56:52,750 --> 00:56:54,909
a progressively
developing engine

1686
00:56:54,909 --> 00:56:57,970
and has increasing
potential

1687
00:56:57,970 --> 00:57:00,429
to do engineering
type things.

1688
00:57:00,429 --> 00:57:02,260
Okay? So talks
about this a lot.

1689
00:57:02,260 --> 00:57:03,849
I talked about
structural causality.

1690
00:57:03,849 --> 00:57:05,619
That's what's really
involved in lightness.

1691
00:57:05,619 --> 00:57:07,149
So the causality is

1692
00:57:07,149 --> 00:57:09,369
changing the
structure of reality.

1693
00:57:09,369 --> 00:57:12,189
There's a really neat
book by this guy,

1694
00:57:12,189 --> 00:57:16,254
fell cow ski,
Life's engines.

1695
00:57:16,254 --> 00:57:18,640
That the deep sea
is a whole group.

1696
00:57:18,640 --> 00:57:20,710
And he gives the example
of these consortia.

1697
00:57:20,710 --> 00:57:23,559
One group of bacteria
loves sulfur at

1698
00:57:23,559 --> 00:57:24,789
plus three and exports at

1699
00:57:24,789 --> 00:57:26,874
it at minus five, right?

1700
00:57:26,874 --> 00:57:28,870
And the other
one loves it at

1701
00:57:28,870 --> 00:57:30,699
minus five and exports
and a plus three.

1702
00:57:30,699 --> 00:57:32,350
And they form
this consortium

1703
00:57:32,350 --> 00:57:35,425
in going back and forth
and back and forth.

1704
00:57:35,425 --> 00:57:37,345
And it's kinda nice
little engine.

1705
00:57:37,345 --> 00:57:38,740
And there's the
net process.

1706
00:57:38,740 --> 00:57:43,405
However, carton
hydrogen ion

1707
00:57:43,405 --> 00:57:45,519
is advanced and when
that hydrogen I advance,

1708
00:57:45,519 --> 00:57:48,490
it connects to
the carbon CO2.

1709
00:57:48,490 --> 00:57:49,810
And that's how carbon

1710
00:57:49,810 --> 00:57:52,270
compounds start
to get generated.

1711
00:57:52,270 --> 00:57:55,015
In this process.

1712
00:57:55,015 --> 00:57:57,324
A new carbon compounds is

1713
00:57:57,324 --> 00:57:59,859
changing the
organizational structure

1714
00:57:59,859 --> 00:58:01,705
and function of reality.

1715
00:58:01,705 --> 00:58:05,409
And this is one rule

1716
00:58:05,409 --> 00:58:07,299
of being about
Kobilka consortiums.

1717
00:58:07,299 --> 00:58:09,144
You don't outcompete
the others

1718
00:58:09,144 --> 00:58:10,690
to their exclusion
because they're feeding

1719
00:58:10,690 --> 00:58:12,220
you compete.

1720
00:58:12,220 --> 00:58:14,709
And this, my friend
Bill Martin has

1721
00:58:14,709 --> 00:58:15,909
his widow's claim and

1722
00:58:15,909 --> 00:58:18,384
all this part of
this deep-sea grew.

1723
00:58:18,384 --> 00:58:20,979
And he says if Darwin,
Darwinian evolution

1724
00:58:20,979 --> 00:58:22,270
is supposed to work
like a tinkerer,

1725
00:58:22,270 --> 00:58:24,609
he says Evolution with
mitochondria works

1726
00:58:24,609 --> 00:58:27,770
like a corps of
engineers. I love that.

1727
00:58:28,500 --> 00:58:31,629
It tie up here
in economics.

1728
00:58:31,629 --> 00:58:33,849
There's an enigma and
economics it was called

1729
00:58:33,849 --> 00:58:36,609
increasing returns in
scientific economics.

1730
00:58:36,609 --> 00:58:37,659
So if the sign of

1731
00:58:37,659 --> 00:58:39,849
a good description
of economies,

1732
00:58:39,849 --> 00:58:41,785
if the scientific
description

1733
00:58:41,785 --> 00:58:43,525
of economies is
appropriate,

1734
00:58:43,525 --> 00:58:45,820
then the economy should
be conservative.

1735
00:58:45,820 --> 00:58:48,355
So what was this with
increasing returns.

1736
00:58:48,355 --> 00:58:49,915
And then arguably even

1737
00:58:49,915 --> 00:58:51,429
we're running out
of resources.

1738
00:58:51,429 --> 00:58:52,705
So what's
increasing, however,

1739
00:58:52,705 --> 00:58:54,520
increasing returns
coming from?

1740
00:58:54,520 --> 00:58:56,500
But economics naturally

1741
00:58:56,500 --> 00:58:57,639
produce a surplus, okay,

1742
00:58:57,639 --> 00:59:00,039
progressively
cumulatively is wrong

1743
00:59:00,039 --> 00:59:01,194
or poles points out,

1744
00:59:01,194 --> 00:59:04,090
he got to 2018 Nobel
Prize in Economics,

1745
00:59:04,090 --> 00:59:06,205
increasing capacity
to perform work.

1746
00:59:06,205 --> 00:59:08,740
And Romer solution is

1747
00:59:08,740 --> 00:59:11,485
paradigm shift to
engineering economics,

1748
00:59:11,485 --> 00:59:12,954
which he then turns of

1749
00:59:12,954 --> 00:59:15,070
endogenous
technological change.

1750
00:59:15,070 --> 00:59:16,674
That's very well-taken

1751
00:59:16,674 --> 00:59:19,194
in David worships book.

1752
00:59:19,194 --> 00:59:23,425
So economic agents are
innovative engineers.

1753
00:59:23,425 --> 00:59:24,850
Problem-solving engineers

1754
00:59:24,850 --> 00:59:26,200
are value actually risers.

1755
00:59:26,200 --> 00:59:28,150
They develop the world and

1756
00:59:28,150 --> 00:59:29,680
industry part of
this goes back and

1757
00:59:29,680 --> 00:59:32,229
consortia thing
and economic soon

1758
00:59:32,229 --> 00:59:35,005
as AV is a win-win
exchange relationship,

1759
00:59:35,005 --> 00:59:36,969
okay, so fundamental
relationship and

1760
00:59:36,969 --> 00:59:39,340
this is an
exchange a and B,

1761
00:59:39,340 --> 00:59:42,504
I took a trade, trade
with fish for bread.

1762
00:59:42,504 --> 00:59:46,030
And that creates a
new relationship.

1763
00:59:46,030 --> 00:59:46,869
And every time we create

1764
00:59:46,869 --> 00:59:47,890
a new relationship
like that,

1765
00:59:47,890 --> 00:59:48,550
it changes

1766
00:59:48,550 --> 00:59:50,439
the organizational
structure of reality.

1767
00:59:50,439 --> 00:59:52,809
And Romer's realization is

1768
00:59:52,809 --> 00:59:56,845
that it's in his interests
that you succeed.

1769
00:59:56,845 --> 00:59:58,479
So you said
somebody created

1770
00:59:58,479 --> 01:00:00,925
a new way to make
computer chips.

1771
01:00:00,925 --> 01:00:03,790
That's my computer chips
are cheaper, is it?

1772
01:00:03,790 --> 01:00:05,260
And I didn't do anything.

1773
01:00:05,260 --> 01:00:07,060
So he realizes
she said it's in

1774
01:00:07,060 --> 01:00:09,099
my interest in
others succeed.

1775
01:00:09,099 --> 01:00:11,260
Have a book coming
out someday.

1776
01:00:11,260 --> 01:00:13,509
New growth economics,
new birth politics,

1777
01:00:13,509 --> 01:00:15,790
new growth morality.
Okay, so that's it.

1778
01:00:15,790 --> 01:00:18,655
My god, I made
it in 60 min.

1779
01:00:18,655 --> 01:00:24,680
Is this possible? When
are you still awake?

1780
01:00:37,170 --> 01:00:40,074
When I'm not
here? Now, when

1781
01:00:40,074 --> 01:00:41,800
you left something
in the chat,

1782
01:00:41,800 --> 01:00:43,344
he said to leave, I
have to drop off.

1783
01:00:43,344 --> 01:00:45,879
I made you the host now.

1784
01:00:45,879 --> 01:00:50,109
So if anybody has any
questions or any site.

1785
01:00:50,109 --> 01:00:52,059
Yeah, Terry, I
had a question

1786
01:00:52,059 --> 01:00:54,804
about I put it
in the chat.

1787
01:00:54,804 --> 01:00:56,110
I read this book back in

1788
01:00:56,110 --> 01:00:57,670
the '80s called
three scientists and

1789
01:00:57,670 --> 01:00:59,979
their gods by
Robert Wright

1790
01:00:59,979 --> 01:01:01,300
is one of my
favorite authors.

1791
01:01:01,300 --> 01:01:03,100
And there was this guy

1792
01:01:03,100 --> 01:01:05,469
Fred Qin from MIT or
something like that,

1793
01:01:05,469 --> 01:01:08,020
who was a strange
fellow who he was kind

1794
01:01:08,020 --> 01:01:09,369
of a self-trained hacker

1795
01:01:09,369 --> 01:01:10,794
type or something
like that.

1796
01:01:10,794 --> 01:01:12,669
And he was envisioning

1797
01:01:12,669 --> 01:01:14,185
the entire universe
as just a,

1798
01:01:14,185 --> 01:01:17,785
just a big old
cellular automata.

1799
01:01:17,785 --> 01:01:19,989
Sort of strikes
me that your idea

1800
01:01:19,989 --> 01:01:21,340
of engines all
the way down is

1801
01:01:21,340 --> 01:01:24,310
kinda the same
idea a little bit,

1802
01:01:24,310 --> 01:01:27,325
but that's all stuff
that's happening in

1803
01:01:27,325 --> 01:01:29,394
I say in simulated

1804
01:01:29,394 --> 01:01:31,555
within a computer
world, you know,

1805
01:01:31,555 --> 01:01:34,429
I know I know Robert been

1806
01:01:35,010 --> 01:01:37,479
the problem with
a, you know,

1807
01:01:37,479 --> 01:01:39,400
there's a whole bunch
of work that was

1808
01:01:39,400 --> 01:01:42,249
done in when we
got computers

1809
01:01:42,249 --> 01:01:43,719
and we wanted to be able

1810
01:01:43,719 --> 01:01:45,819
to write a program
that this is

1811
01:01:45,819 --> 01:01:47,439
called the wanted to call

1812
01:01:47,439 --> 01:01:49,989
it the life programmers.

1813
01:01:49,989 --> 01:01:51,220
And I can you
can, you can,

1814
01:01:51,220 --> 01:01:54,100
you can write a
program, right?

1815
01:01:54,100 --> 01:01:56,260
John Conway's Life
program. Yeah, that's it.

1816
01:01:56,260 --> 01:01:57,490
Okay, so that
was very, very

1817
01:01:57,490 --> 01:01:58,960
impressive than
or equal to 0.

1818
01:01:58,960 --> 01:02:00,515
So the universe is,

1819
01:02:00,515 --> 01:02:02,729
you know,
computer-generated.

1820
01:02:02,729 --> 01:02:08,400
So the idea is that
it's that they wanted,

1821
01:02:08,400 --> 01:02:11,369
they wanted to
get emergence by

1822
01:02:11,369 --> 01:02:16,664
some sort of mathematical
formulation.

1823
01:02:16,664 --> 01:02:19,305
It is not going to work.

1824
01:02:19,305 --> 01:02:21,570
I don't know what I
mean. Without going

1825
01:02:21,570 --> 01:02:24,059
into that in great detail.

1826
01:02:24,059 --> 01:02:26,190
I mean, I have to go
back and look at it,

1827
01:02:26,190 --> 01:02:28,484
but these computer
simulations

1828
01:02:28,484 --> 01:02:31,350
of systems are very

1829
01:02:31,350 --> 01:02:33,164
impressive and they're
very interesting.

1830
01:02:33,164 --> 01:02:36,164
But none of that
is science,

1831
01:02:36,164 --> 01:02:36,540
okay,

1832
01:02:36,540 --> 01:02:37,710
it's all engineering and

1833
01:02:37,710 --> 01:02:38,655
I can just start
with that.

1834
01:02:38,655 --> 01:02:40,769
The other thing
that's important in

1835
01:02:40,769 --> 01:02:44,189
this is that There's

1836
01:02:44,189 --> 01:02:46,515
nothing in the cellular
automata about,

1837
01:02:46,515 --> 01:02:51,375
about metabolic systems.

1838
01:02:51,375 --> 01:02:53,190
Okay? I mean, where's

1839
01:02:53,190 --> 01:02:55,155
the energy coming from
and where is it going?

1840
01:02:55,155 --> 01:02:57,734
That whole thing is
like it's not there.

1841
01:02:57,734 --> 01:02:59,324
There are some I mean,

1842
01:02:59,324 --> 01:03:02,460
if you go back
to the bad guys

1843
01:03:02,460 --> 01:03:03,479
book and he's
really a good guy

1844
01:03:03,479 --> 01:03:05,235
Schrodinger, right?
A lot of good stuff.

1845
01:03:05,235 --> 01:03:07,634
But that little
book, what his life,

1846
01:03:07,634 --> 01:03:10,230
where he has this eating

1847
01:03:10,230 --> 01:03:14,639
low entropy plants and
animals and so forth.

1848
01:03:14,639 --> 01:03:17,549
And we're, we're, we're
exporting high-energy

1849
01:03:17,549 --> 01:03:18,915
and this is all going to

1850
01:03:18,915 --> 01:03:20,729
the gray heat, death
and stuff like that.

1851
01:03:20,729 --> 01:03:21,960
Those guys are
all stuck in

1852
01:03:21,960 --> 01:03:26,060
that mechanical version
of thermodynamics.

1853
01:03:26,060 --> 01:03:29,530
In this article
that I wrote

1854
01:03:29,530 --> 01:03:30,760
recently and
somebody said I

1855
01:03:30,760 --> 01:03:34,449
needed to clarify how,

1856
01:03:34,449 --> 01:03:36,910
how the engineers, how

1857
01:03:36,910 --> 01:03:39,339
the experimental
physicists are

1858
01:03:39,339 --> 01:03:41,394
able to use
quantum theory,

1859
01:03:41,394 --> 01:03:42,880
even though we don't
understand it,

1860
01:03:42,880 --> 01:03:45,070
knows how is climate,
how can they use it?

1861
01:03:45,070 --> 01:03:46,209
What are they doing
with a halogen?

1862
01:03:46,209 --> 01:03:48,415
And that's very
important. In a way.

1863
01:03:48,415 --> 01:03:51,429
It gets into the
whole relationship

1864
01:03:51,429 --> 01:03:55,254
between Heisenberg
and Schrodinger.

1865
01:03:55,254 --> 01:03:56,739
So high number
comes up with

1866
01:03:56,739 --> 01:03:59,020
this theory like

1867
01:03:59,020 --> 01:04:02,469
matrix algebra,
higher-order.

1868
01:04:02,469 --> 01:04:04,180
It's higher-order
mathematics,

1869
01:04:04,180 --> 01:04:05,199
linear algebra,

1870
01:04:05,199 --> 01:04:07,239
multivariable vector
calculus as well.

1871
01:04:07,239 --> 01:04:08,184
It turns out to be.

1872
01:04:08,184 --> 01:04:11,469
And, and he's like This
is great, wonderful.

1873
01:04:11,469 --> 01:04:12,925
And then shortage or
comes along and says,

1874
01:04:12,925 --> 01:04:14,049
oh wait a minute,
that's all.

1875
01:04:14,049 --> 01:04:15,729
Everything is discontinuous
and anything that

1876
01:04:15,729 --> 01:04:16,989
you guys nice continuous

1877
01:04:16,989 --> 01:04:17,919
wave function
you guys like.

1878
01:04:17,919 --> 01:04:19,119
It's all wafers.

1879
01:04:19,119 --> 01:04:23,319
And Eisenberg's
reaction to us,

1880
01:04:23,319 --> 01:04:25,269
to Schroedinger
stuff was he said,

1881
01:04:25,269 --> 01:04:29,455
What crap, insane,
ridiculous.

1882
01:04:29,455 --> 01:04:31,060
But you see in

1883
01:04:31,060 --> 01:04:34,225
that this kind of
debate between them.

1884
01:04:34,225 --> 01:04:35,634
And if you go,

1885
01:04:35,634 --> 01:04:39,204
if you look at
the applications

1886
01:04:39,204 --> 01:04:41,454
of quantum
theory now here,

1887
01:04:41,454 --> 01:04:42,880
Here's a want to try to

1888
01:04:42,880 --> 01:04:44,694
get to which would
be much nicer.

1889
01:04:44,694 --> 01:04:46,239
A lot of the discussion

1890
01:04:46,239 --> 01:04:47,469
of quantum
theory is simply

1891
01:04:47,469 --> 01:04:51,070
about photons
and electrons

1892
01:04:51,070 --> 01:04:53,215
and that whole world,

1893
01:04:53,215 --> 01:04:55,329
and the micro particle

1894
01:04:55,329 --> 01:04:56,619
world and all that stuff.

1895
01:04:56,619 --> 01:04:58,479
And you don't see it when

1896
01:04:58,479 --> 01:05:01,220
you're talking about
the soccer game.

1897
01:05:01,650 --> 01:05:07,735
So again, Paul Romer,
stuff in economics.

1898
01:05:07,735 --> 01:05:09,475
I'm seeing like if

1899
01:05:09,475 --> 01:05:12,410
I've seen is that
all systems,

1900
01:05:12,410 --> 01:05:15,389
our thermodynamic
systems, okay?

1901
01:05:15,389 --> 01:05:16,800
And all systems are

1902
01:05:16,800 --> 01:05:18,359
engineering
thermodynamic systems.

1903
01:05:18,359 --> 01:05:21,449
Okay, So, and you see
it in Paul Romer.

1904
01:05:21,449 --> 01:05:23,999
I think the book
is quite nice.

1905
01:05:23,999 --> 01:05:25,409
I should have

1906
01:05:25,409 --> 01:05:27,704
this manuscript that
I haven't finished.

1907
01:05:27,704 --> 01:05:30,419
I say I characterize
myself as retiring

1908
01:05:30,419 --> 01:05:32,774
academic was six
Unfinished manuscripts.

1909
01:05:32,774 --> 01:05:33,584
Definitely.

1910
01:05:33,584 --> 01:05:34,980
Hey, I don't want to, I

1911
01:05:34,980 --> 01:05:36,209
want to make sure
that the other end,

1912
01:05:36,209 --> 01:05:37,320
Richard in France get

1913
01:05:37,320 --> 01:05:38,684
a chance to ask questions.

1914
01:05:38,684 --> 01:05:39,840
Yeah. You guys have

1915
01:05:39,840 --> 01:05:43,425
any but I do have a
follow-up question.

1916
01:05:43,425 --> 01:05:46,479
Okay. You guys Heather?

1917
01:05:47,000 --> 01:05:50,140
Heather, what are
you working on?

1918
01:05:53,120 --> 01:05:57,834
You unmute? Yeah.
What am I working on?

1919
01:05:57,834 --> 01:06:00,499
Why is it a nice
girl like you?

1920
01:06:00,870 --> 01:06:06,130
Oh, I'm a physics

1921
01:06:06,130 --> 01:06:10,119
major and I'm kind of
interested in math,

1922
01:06:10,119 --> 01:06:14,380
physics, systems and
have been gobbling up

1923
01:06:14,380 --> 01:06:16,225
all the classes in

1924
01:06:16,225 --> 01:06:20,109
the system science
program and cool.

1925
01:06:20,109 --> 01:06:22,389
So, yeah, I've
been reading

1926
01:06:22,389 --> 01:06:25,540
Sean Carroll on many
worlds recently.

1927
01:06:25,540 --> 01:06:28,255
It shines a friend.

1928
01:06:28,255 --> 01:06:30,625
I think his first book
was his best book.

1929
01:06:30,625 --> 01:06:33,009
If you want to look
at is called from

1930
01:06:33,009 --> 01:06:35,410
maternity. Oh, yeah. Yeah.

1931
01:06:35,410 --> 01:06:37,600
For his time stuff. Yeah.

1932
01:06:37,600 --> 01:06:39,549
Yeah. Because yeah.
Then and he's

1933
01:06:39,549 --> 01:06:41,049
got another one on time,

1934
01:06:41,049 --> 01:06:42,084
which is pretty good.

1935
01:06:42,084 --> 01:06:43,330
But any of these funny,

1936
01:06:43,330 --> 01:06:45,710
he goes like
he criticizes.

1937
01:06:46,020 --> 01:06:48,264
He goes over Boltzmann,

1938
01:06:48,264 --> 01:06:50,049
Boltzmann brains and
all that sort of stuff.

1939
01:06:50,049 --> 01:06:51,340
And actually this doesn't

1940
01:06:51,340 --> 01:06:52,540
make any sense and it's

1941
01:06:52,540 --> 01:06:56,050
like contradictory
and says,

1942
01:06:56,050 --> 01:06:57,069
But if anybody asks

1943
01:06:57,069 --> 01:06:59,170
you the basis of
thermodynamics,

1944
01:06:59,170 --> 01:07:01,429
this is actually
Boltzmann's.

1945
01:07:02,220 --> 01:07:05,004
This kinda, you
know, I like it.

1946
01:07:05,004 --> 01:07:06,655
I like to get the chance.

1947
01:07:06,655 --> 01:07:08,770
Relatively
honest about an,

1948
01:07:08,770 --> 01:07:10,839
another great
book on some of

1949
01:07:10,839 --> 01:07:12,955
the stuff is
Jennifer Coopersmith

1950
01:07:12,955 --> 01:07:15,820
on once I was
called energy to

1951
01:07:15,820 --> 01:07:17,259
subtle concept
and another one

1952
01:07:17,259 --> 01:07:19,494
on the principle
of least action.

1953
01:07:19,494 --> 01:07:22,569
And she all in
life you'll end up

1954
01:07:22,569 --> 01:07:25,869
going to the standard
interpretation,

1955
01:07:25,869 --> 01:07:26,304
which is

1956
01:07:26,304 --> 01:07:28,165
a mathematical physics
interpretation.

1957
01:07:28,165 --> 01:07:29,649
But along the
way they keep

1958
01:07:29,649 --> 01:07:30,400
asking you all these

1959
01:07:30,400 --> 01:07:31,300
where I was
talking to Jeff,

1960
01:07:31,300 --> 01:07:32,994
all these heretical
questions.

1961
01:07:32,994 --> 01:07:34,695
And the same thing
that Shonda,

1962
01:07:34,695 --> 01:07:36,579
he just points
out to you that

1963
01:07:36,579 --> 01:07:39,865
the Boltzmann thing
just doesn't work.

1964
01:07:39,865 --> 01:07:42,070
And so you can do
it if you want.

1965
01:07:42,070 --> 01:07:42,879
But the thing is they

1966
01:07:42,879 --> 01:07:44,229
don't have any
alternatives.

1967
01:07:44,229 --> 01:07:46,644
I would say these
guys are my feelings.

1968
01:07:46,644 --> 01:07:47,604
They're stuck.

1969
01:07:47,604 --> 01:07:49,780
They're good people,
they're trying.

1970
01:07:49,780 --> 01:07:51,460
And if you talk to
more casually and

1971
01:07:51,460 --> 01:07:53,139
stuff like that,
they're there.

1972
01:07:53,139 --> 01:07:54,459
Let me talk to
Brian Greene a lot

1973
01:07:54,459 --> 01:07:56,364
about this stuff and
he just goes like,

1974
01:07:56,364 --> 01:07:57,954
I mean, he gets it,

1975
01:07:57,954 --> 01:07:59,485
but he doesn't
know where to go.

1976
01:07:59,485 --> 01:08:00,010
And as we have

1977
01:08:00,010 --> 01:08:02,329
string theory may
give me a break.

1978
01:08:02,329 --> 01:08:03,990
I'll totally, I asked her,

1979
01:08:03,990 --> 01:08:05,475
I said Brian is
string theory

1980
01:08:05,475 --> 01:08:06,779
totally deterministic.

1981
01:08:06,779 --> 01:08:07,590
He says, Oh yeah,

1982
01:08:07,590 --> 01:08:09,504
absolutely totally
determinacy.

1983
01:08:09,504 --> 01:08:14,654
Nuts. Well, Sean Carroll
has been getting,

1984
01:08:14,654 --> 01:08:15,750
getting me thinking

1985
01:08:15,750 --> 01:08:17,249
about whether
foundations of

1986
01:08:17,249 --> 01:08:18,870
quantum mechanics
is a good direction

1987
01:08:18,870 --> 01:08:20,295
to go if I studies,

1988
01:08:20,295 --> 01:08:21,839
that sounds pretty
interesting.

1989
01:08:21,839 --> 01:08:23,339
Yeah, yeah. Well,
the good guy,

1990
01:08:23,339 --> 01:08:24,539
the guy who's really

1991
01:08:24,539 --> 01:08:27,089
struggling right
now is Lee Smolin.

1992
01:08:27,089 --> 01:08:28,830
If you haven't
looked at his stuff,

1993
01:08:28,830 --> 01:08:31,649
do you know him? I think
I've heard the name.

1994
01:08:31,649 --> 01:08:32,534
I'm gonna look them up.

1995
01:08:32,534 --> 01:08:35,830
Very small and the
Perimeter Institute.

1996
01:08:35,900 --> 01:08:39,840
He was one of those
whose brick broke ranks.

1997
01:08:39,840 --> 01:08:41,610
How do you spell
his last name?

1998
01:08:41,610 --> 01:08:44,110
I just put in the chat
there if you like.

1999
01:08:44,130 --> 01:08:49,134
Since I misspelled
it. Slowly, know

2000
01:08:49,134 --> 01:08:52,239
SLO LIM here with
an L in there.

2001
01:08:52,239 --> 01:08:52,525
Got it.

2002
01:08:52,525 --> 01:08:53,709
Okay. I'm sorry.

2003
01:08:53,709 --> 01:08:55,539
I missed it.

2004
01:08:55,539 --> 01:08:57,114
Yeah. Okay.

2005
01:08:57,114 --> 01:09:00,445
So what is Smolin in
trouble about right now?

2006
01:09:00,445 --> 01:09:02,589
So small,
undiscounted together

2007
01:09:02,589 --> 01:09:04,704
with with Penrose?

2008
01:09:04,704 --> 01:09:05,980
Yeah. So small as it hits

2009
01:09:05,980 --> 01:09:07,824
this thing called the
Perimeter Institute.

2010
01:09:07,824 --> 01:09:10,314
It's up in Toronto,
I think Toronto.

2011
01:09:10,314 --> 01:09:12,864
And was funded like

2012
01:09:12,864 --> 01:09:14,229
$100 million from Nokia

2013
01:09:14,229 --> 01:09:15,039
or something like that.

2014
01:09:15,039 --> 01:09:18,280
And you just want to
get stuff up there.

2015
01:09:18,280 --> 01:09:20,170
That one quote from him
when he's talking to

2016
01:09:20,170 --> 01:09:21,370
these two

2017
01:09:21,370 --> 01:09:23,184
beginning, he's talking
to his students.

2018
01:09:23,184 --> 01:09:24,984
And he said, like,

2019
01:09:24,984 --> 01:09:25,900
we're all going to try

2020
01:09:25,900 --> 01:09:27,099
and figure out
what quantum.

2021
01:09:27,099 --> 01:09:29,709
Reality was all about,
he says now 2010,

2022
01:09:29,709 --> 01:09:31,914
we've made any
progress at all.

2023
01:09:31,914 --> 01:09:33,340
He wrote this book called

2024
01:09:33,340 --> 01:09:34,239
The Trouble with Physics,

2025
01:09:34,239 --> 01:09:35,335
which is quite good.

2026
01:09:35,335 --> 01:09:37,975
And there's this
other woman,

2027
01:09:37,975 --> 01:09:41,320
Sabina Hawkins
felt or something,

2028
01:09:41,320 --> 01:09:42,999
who wrote a book
called Lost in math,

2029
01:09:42,999 --> 01:09:43,690
which I quite like

2030
01:09:43,690 --> 01:09:44,800
her later book
I don't like,

2031
01:09:44,800 --> 01:09:46,179
but lost and math acidic.

2032
01:09:46,179 --> 01:09:47,605
This is really what
happened to them.

2033
01:09:47,605 --> 01:09:49,150
They just get lost in

2034
01:09:49,150 --> 01:09:50,575
the math and they
can't get their heads

2035
01:09:50,575 --> 01:09:53,814
out of the math
into the concepts.

2036
01:09:53,814 --> 01:09:55,480
So but swollen, got

2037
01:09:55,480 --> 01:09:57,249
together with Roger
Penrose recently.

2038
01:09:57,249 --> 01:09:58,800
And what he says
is that they've

2039
01:09:58,800 --> 01:10:00,610
got together and
decided that I,

2040
01:10:00,610 --> 01:10:03,460
Kim or with the
quantum theory

2041
01:10:03,460 --> 01:10:04,869
wasn't just false.

2042
01:10:04,869 --> 01:10:07,254
It was wrong or it
wasn't just wrong?

2043
01:10:07,254 --> 01:10:08,979
It was false. I can't
remember but both

2044
01:10:08,979 --> 01:10:10,810
of them, they're
just gone.

2045
01:10:10,810 --> 01:10:12,280
They're breaking rank
and they're saying no,

2046
01:10:12,280 --> 01:10:13,145
like there's something

2047
01:10:13,145 --> 01:10:15,309
absolutely fundamentally

2048
01:10:15,309 --> 01:10:16,390
wrong with how we

2049
01:10:16,390 --> 01:10:18,864
have approached
quantum theory.

2050
01:10:18,864 --> 01:10:22,180
And to me, it's not that
it's like a singing

2051
01:10:22,180 --> 01:10:26,429
about what Euler said
about more partway.

2052
01:10:26,429 --> 01:10:27,329
At one point he goes like,

2053
01:10:27,329 --> 01:10:28,110
Well, I'm open to it,

2054
01:10:28,110 --> 01:10:28,800
of course you're right,

2055
01:10:28,800 --> 01:10:30,850
but it's not very useful.

2056
01:10:33,020 --> 01:10:36,780
The question is Quantum,

2057
01:10:36,780 --> 01:10:38,039
this is again, the
relationship to

2058
01:10:38,039 --> 01:10:40,305
quantum theory and
quantum mechanics.

2059
01:10:40,305 --> 01:10:42,975
And quantum mechanics
is very useful,

2060
01:10:42,975 --> 01:10:46,260
but it's also ambiguous.

2061
01:10:46,260 --> 01:10:50,099
Which application, which
way am I doing it?

2062
01:10:50,099 --> 01:10:52,619
It's indeterminate
as indefinite.

2063
01:10:52,619 --> 01:10:54,195
I can do all sorts
of things with it.

2064
01:10:54,195 --> 01:10:55,244
This is one of
the interesting,

2065
01:10:55,244 --> 01:10:56,325
really extreme
things with it.

2066
01:10:56,325 --> 01:10:57,300
It's not just saying

2067
01:10:57,300 --> 01:10:58,305
something about
the uterus.

2068
01:10:58,305 --> 01:11:01,109
It's a tool. Hey, you
can do things this way.

2069
01:11:01,109 --> 01:11:01,650
You can do that.

2070
01:11:01,650 --> 01:11:03,839
It can be all of
this capability.

2071
01:11:03,839 --> 01:11:06,529
And I think all
through the,

2072
01:11:06,529 --> 01:11:07,479
this is why they have

2073
01:11:07,479 --> 01:11:08,319
been working on recently

2074
01:11:08,319 --> 01:11:10,059
is scientific

2075
01:11:10,059 --> 01:11:11,364
knowledge and
engineering knowledge.

2076
01:11:11,364 --> 01:11:13,225
In engineering knowledge,

2077
01:11:13,225 --> 01:11:15,835
engineering interpretation
of knowledge.

2078
01:11:15,835 --> 01:11:17,484
Because knowledge
is knowledge where

2079
01:11:17,484 --> 01:11:19,750
interpretation and
engineering knowledge

2080
01:11:19,750 --> 01:11:22,630
always has this
aspect of it enables

2081
01:11:22,630 --> 01:11:25,959
you to do something

2082
01:11:25,959 --> 01:11:28,600
to improve when you
make an advance and

2083
01:11:28,600 --> 01:11:30,160
engineering knowledge
and enables you to

2084
01:11:30,160 --> 01:11:32,710
improve the
design of things.

2085
01:11:32,710 --> 01:11:34,360
You don't hear
that chord is

2086
01:11:34,360 --> 01:11:37,675
sort of statement with
scientific knowledge.

2087
01:11:37,675 --> 01:11:39,580
And my friend
Henry Petroski,

2088
01:11:39,580 --> 01:11:40,900
who I also recommend is

2089
01:11:40,900 --> 01:11:43,104
great book called The
essential engineer.

2090
01:11:43,104 --> 01:11:44,859
And one of the
things he says,

2091
01:11:44,859 --> 01:11:45,730
and he says like,

2092
01:11:45,730 --> 01:11:47,589
everything you thought was

2093
01:11:47,589 --> 01:11:50,844
science is actually
engineering.

2094
01:11:50,844 --> 01:11:53,395
Now, part of it is like,

2095
01:11:53,395 --> 01:11:54,760
okay, this is me, at me,

2096
01:11:54,760 --> 01:11:56,470
I find myself in

2097
01:11:56,470 --> 01:11:57,970
this scientific
worldview owner,

2098
01:11:57,970 --> 01:12:01,000
but if everything's
determined

2099
01:12:01,000 --> 01:12:02,270
and I'm assigning
worldview

2100
01:12:02,270 --> 01:12:03,139
and any popping around.

2101
01:12:03,139 --> 01:12:05,065
Like, what am I doing?

2102
01:12:05,065 --> 01:12:07,404
What am I doing?
What am I?

2103
01:12:07,404 --> 01:12:08,589
Why am I asking
you questions?

2104
01:12:08,589 --> 01:12:10,180
May get some answers

2105
01:12:10,180 --> 01:12:11,830
and it's going to
change things.

2106
01:12:11,830 --> 01:12:12,160
Well, how can I

2107
01:12:12,160 --> 01:12:13,525
change these
already determined

2108
01:12:13,525 --> 01:12:15,745
by being determined
to ask the questions?

2109
01:12:15,745 --> 01:12:17,634
And there's all
stupid as we can.

2110
01:12:17,634 --> 01:12:21,384
So I put that as

2111
01:12:21,384 --> 01:12:24,249
the scientific
representation of

2112
01:12:24,249 --> 01:12:26,200
reality is not
self-referential,

2113
01:12:26,200 --> 01:12:30,670
a coherent is unable
to account for itself.

2114
01:12:30,670 --> 01:12:33,459
He is unable to
account for learning.

2115
01:12:33,459 --> 01:12:35,619
So somebody comes
up here of this.

2116
01:12:35,619 --> 01:12:37,405
Scientists have
figured out

2117
01:12:37,405 --> 01:12:38,740
the nature of the
universe Really.

2118
01:12:38,740 --> 01:12:40,629
Okay, Let's hear it.

2119
01:12:40,629 --> 01:12:43,060
And by the way, will
you show us where you

2120
01:12:43,060 --> 01:12:47,335
are in that universe
and how you learned it?

2121
01:12:47,335 --> 01:12:49,195
Learning has to be part

2122
01:12:49,195 --> 01:12:51,445
of the very nature
of the universe.

2123
01:12:51,445 --> 01:12:54,444
Okay? And engineering
knowledge.

2124
01:12:54,444 --> 01:12:55,734
You have a question
over here.

2125
01:12:55,734 --> 01:12:58,105
Yes. Who Richard first?

2126
01:12:58,105 --> 01:12:59,005
High.

2127
01:12:59,005 --> 01:13:00,339
Well, so this seems

2128
01:13:00,339 --> 01:13:02,559
like a good time
to jump in.

2129
01:13:02,559 --> 01:13:05,394
Substantively, I really

2130
01:13:05,394 --> 01:13:09,264
appreciate the
intellectual genealogy.

2131
01:13:09,264 --> 01:13:12,879
So I want to
situate myself in

2132
01:13:12,879 --> 01:13:14,514
this conversation
really quickly

2133
01:13:14,514 --> 01:13:17,035
and just expressing
gratitude.

2134
01:13:17,035 --> 01:13:20,875
I got to Portland
and 91 and

2135
01:13:20,875 --> 01:13:24,669
I sat with and strong
form at that time.

2136
01:13:24,669 --> 01:13:28,884
Right. And I wanted
to share with you,

2137
01:13:28,884 --> 01:13:32,094
these are my eyes
set programs, right?

2138
01:13:32,094 --> 01:13:34,705
And so because of
that, you know,

2139
01:13:34,705 --> 01:13:37,644
I sat in the
same room with

2140
01:13:37,644 --> 01:13:39,729
everyone you mentioned
with Brian Greene

2141
01:13:39,729 --> 01:13:41,680
and Penrose and
Mandelbrot,

2142
01:13:41,680 --> 01:13:43,029
and Ian Smith and

2143
01:13:43,029 --> 01:13:44,784
Stewart and all
these folks.

2144
01:13:44,784 --> 01:13:46,255
Thank you very much.

2145
01:13:46,255 --> 01:13:48,685
Right. So secondly,

2146
01:13:48,685 --> 01:13:49,660
did you have
that experience

2147
01:13:49,660 --> 01:13:50,800
per se, really, yeah.

2148
01:13:50,800 --> 01:13:52,884
Yeah. Now I made
a big difference.

2149
01:13:52,884 --> 01:13:55,705
And ultimately
that doesn't mean

2150
01:13:55,705 --> 01:13:58,210
that led me pursuing

2151
01:13:58,210 --> 01:14:00,070
the system science
PhD, right?

2152
01:14:00,070 --> 01:14:02,020
And so I'm, I am now

2153
01:14:02,020 --> 01:14:06,070
a professor in public
health here and cool.

2154
01:14:06,070 --> 01:14:06,790
And so I took

2155
01:14:06,790 --> 01:14:08,559
all the information and
became an educator.

2156
01:14:08,559 --> 01:14:10,270
And so, you
know, my ability

2157
01:14:10,270 --> 01:14:11,619
to teach his
relative to what

2158
01:14:11,619 --> 01:14:15,684
the students know
what's next for ISOC.

2159
01:14:15,684 --> 01:14:18,085
And then I have a
follow-up about Penrose.

2160
01:14:18,085 --> 01:14:19,450
What's next for Isaac?

2161
01:14:19,450 --> 01:14:22,779
Are we going
to get I mean,

2162
01:14:22,779 --> 01:14:24,099
if I could do it,
I would do it.

2163
01:14:24,099 --> 01:14:25,780
But the problem would

2164
01:14:25,780 --> 01:14:28,614
like resurrecting to
Lecture Series switch.

2165
01:14:28,614 --> 01:14:32,270
I get, it comes to my
head periodically.

2166
01:14:32,730 --> 01:14:35,560
Today's we never made
any money out of it.

2167
01:14:35,560 --> 01:14:37,479
So I have to go out and
ask for support and

2168
01:14:37,479 --> 01:14:39,415
I have to get in
the old days,

2169
01:14:39,415 --> 01:14:40,570
I had good connections.

2170
01:14:40,570 --> 01:14:42,444
I mean, a guy who
is the provost

2171
01:14:42,444 --> 01:14:44,724
at Paulo state was a super

2172
01:14:44,724 --> 01:14:47,350
supportive of having
a lecture series

2173
01:14:47,350 --> 01:14:48,009
and I got into

2174
01:14:48,009 --> 01:14:49,869
the Chancellor at the
time and so forth.

2175
01:14:49,869 --> 01:14:51,850
And, uh, kinda lost
touch with those people.

2176
01:14:51,850 --> 01:14:54,654
So getting Oregon
system to do it,

2177
01:14:54,654 --> 01:14:55,630
it's just a whole lot of

2178
01:14:55,630 --> 01:14:56,829
work for me to go back and

2179
01:14:56,829 --> 01:15:00,100
get all the sponsorships.

2180
01:15:00,100 --> 01:15:01,359
There's some out there.

2181
01:15:01,359 --> 01:15:03,849
I could do it, but
then I wouldn't be

2182
01:15:03,849 --> 01:15:06,310
finishing that book
is talking about.

2183
01:15:06,310 --> 01:15:07,674
So that's my problem.

2184
01:15:07,674 --> 01:15:08,979
So I'm at this point

2185
01:15:08,979 --> 01:15:09,969
and this other
thing is there's

2186
01:15:09,969 --> 01:15:12,370
so much since we did it,

2187
01:15:12,370 --> 01:15:16,700
there's so much on
the internet now.

2188
01:15:17,070 --> 01:15:19,450
Now we are thinking

2189
01:15:19,450 --> 01:15:20,934
we're talking about
doing something,

2190
01:15:20,934 --> 01:15:22,539
an online version where

2191
01:15:22,539 --> 01:15:24,280
I can go like
interview brian,

2192
01:15:24,280 --> 01:15:26,860
that green are n rows
and bring up some of

2193
01:15:26,860 --> 01:15:27,460
these questions

2194
01:15:27,460 --> 01:15:29,830
and stuff we're
talking about.

2195
01:15:29,830 --> 01:15:31,074
But I gotta just say,

2196
01:15:31,074 --> 01:15:34,150
personally, I'm
now 77 years old.

2197
01:15:34,150 --> 01:15:36,550
I'm not counting on

2198
01:15:36,550 --> 01:15:40,495
my brain working
reasonably well forever.

2199
01:15:40,495 --> 01:15:42,715
And so there's
stuff like that,

2200
01:15:42,715 --> 01:15:44,620
that economics, new
growth economics thing

2201
01:15:44,620 --> 01:15:46,059
or anything to
get that out.

2202
01:15:46,059 --> 01:15:48,744
That thing I mentioned

2203
01:15:48,744 --> 01:15:50,379
the systems
engineering worldview.

2204
01:15:50,379 --> 01:15:52,749
If you look on YouTube,

2205
01:15:52,749 --> 01:15:55,375
Google systems
engineering rural view,

2206
01:15:55,375 --> 01:15:56,440
you get, you see
that and it's a

2207
01:15:56,440 --> 01:15:57,895
little bit sloppy I think.

2208
01:15:57,895 --> 01:15:59,050
But it's sort of what I

2209
01:15:59,050 --> 01:16:00,925
call it took
the high road.

2210
01:16:00,925 --> 01:16:02,769
And sort of like
saying like with

2211
01:16:02,769 --> 01:16:03,940
lightest shade
where the world

2212
01:16:03,940 --> 01:16:05,035
is made up of agents,

2213
01:16:05,035 --> 01:16:06,250
was made up of engineers.

2214
01:16:06,250 --> 01:16:07,359
So let's look
at the world.

2215
01:16:07,359 --> 01:16:08,290
What does the
world look like

2216
01:16:08,290 --> 01:16:09,535
if we look at it that way?

2217
01:16:09,535 --> 01:16:10,720
And I go through that and

2218
01:16:10,720 --> 01:16:11,799
there's a whole
bunch of stuff

2219
01:16:11,799 --> 01:16:14,619
about that I get into

2220
01:16:14,619 --> 01:16:18,730
that I really want to
develop Steve Gould and

2221
01:16:18,730 --> 01:16:21,699
uniformitarianism
and I liked

2222
01:16:21,699 --> 01:16:23,049
the elements of that type,

2223
01:16:23,049 --> 01:16:24,280
but I should write it up.

2224
01:16:24,280 --> 01:16:26,184
And it's a book.

2225
01:16:26,184 --> 01:16:28,195
Why have you written
it up, Terry?

2226
01:16:28,195 --> 01:16:29,110
Because, well,
I was thinking

2227
01:16:29,110 --> 01:16:30,040
about doing a
lecture series.

2228
01:16:30,040 --> 01:16:35,035
You can never
know it really.

2229
01:16:35,035 --> 01:16:36,219
It didn't make a
difference and

2230
01:16:36,219 --> 01:16:37,599
made a tremendous
difference.

2231
01:16:37,599 --> 01:16:40,599
Because overall in
becoming an educator,

2232
01:16:40,599 --> 01:16:42,399
I've come to
value the idea of

2233
01:16:42,399 --> 01:16:43,779
public intellectuals and

2234
01:16:43,779 --> 01:16:45,850
kinda European
tradition, right?

2235
01:16:45,850 --> 01:16:48,624
And the enabled
actually see

2236
01:16:48,624 --> 01:16:50,769
leaky and all the folks

2237
01:16:50,769 --> 01:16:53,170
that you brought in
made a huge difference.

2238
01:16:53,170 --> 01:16:55,105
So I missed.

2239
01:16:55,105 --> 01:16:57,250
But also that the idea
is that I went to

2240
01:16:57,250 --> 01:16:59,650
the snippets and it
was public discourse.

2241
01:16:59,650 --> 01:17:01,390
And we know that in

2242
01:17:01,390 --> 01:17:04,015
society people were
talking about big ideas.

2243
01:17:04,015 --> 01:17:05,379
I think that's valuable

2244
01:17:05,379 --> 01:17:06,819
right now It was great.

2245
01:17:06,819 --> 01:17:09,819
It was great.
I would go to

2246
01:17:09,819 --> 01:17:11,350
these corporations and
I said wouldn't be

2247
01:17:11,350 --> 01:17:12,700
a good idea for this

2248
01:17:12,700 --> 01:17:13,989
to have this in
the community.

2249
01:17:13,989 --> 01:17:15,279
And they'd say, Oh
yeah, And I said, well,

2250
01:17:15,279 --> 01:17:18,955
like I can organize it
but I need financing.

2251
01:17:18,955 --> 01:17:23,019
Corporations and kicking.
Well, that's nice,

2252
01:17:23,019 --> 01:17:25,029
but so just quickly,
quickly, quickly.

2253
01:17:25,029 --> 01:17:27,609
May I please ask this
question based on

2254
01:17:27,609 --> 01:17:29,020
that experience when Penn

2255
01:17:29,020 --> 01:17:31,450
rows with here who went,

2256
01:17:31,450 --> 01:17:33,759
I had come from working in

2257
01:17:33,759 --> 01:17:36,190
hospitals and working
on neuro problems.

2258
01:17:36,190 --> 01:17:40,510
And Penrose said
something about

2259
01:17:40,510 --> 01:17:43,749
an application of his
Penrose tiles idea

2260
01:17:43,749 --> 01:17:45,310
and I'm wondering, and
I didn't track it.

2261
01:17:45,310 --> 01:17:46,570
So I'm wondering
if you know,

2262
01:17:46,570 --> 01:17:48,625
he suggested that

2263
01:17:48,625 --> 01:17:51,549
the microtubules
inside neurons were

2264
01:17:51,549 --> 01:17:53,170
another way to convey

2265
01:17:53,170 --> 01:17:54,670
information through

2266
01:17:54,670 --> 01:17:56,950
the flipping of
Penrose tiles.

2267
01:17:56,950 --> 01:17:59,509
Did that go anywhere?

2268
01:18:00,090 --> 01:18:02,935
Well, he wrote
a book called,

2269
01:18:02,935 --> 01:18:04,630
I think it's called the
Emperor's New Mind.

2270
01:18:04,630 --> 01:18:06,565
Yeah. Yeah. And it's,

2271
01:18:06,565 --> 01:18:08,650
and it's like I

2272
01:18:08,650 --> 01:18:10,540
think that's the one
about the microtubules.

2273
01:18:10,540 --> 01:18:12,700
Just trying to figure out,

2274
01:18:12,700 --> 01:18:15,444
this is the crazy thing.

2275
01:18:15,444 --> 01:18:16,840
All these physicists are

2276
01:18:16,840 --> 01:18:17,740
trying to figure out where

2277
01:18:17,740 --> 01:18:20,724
the observer comes in
or something like that.

2278
01:18:20,724 --> 01:18:21,129
Alright,

2279
01:18:21,129 --> 01:18:23,230
There's still in
this spectator mode,

2280
01:18:23,230 --> 01:18:24,969
but they have
to collapse it.

2281
01:18:24,969 --> 01:18:27,414
And how it is
quantum theory

2282
01:18:27,414 --> 01:18:29,650
related to consciousness
basically,

2283
01:18:29,650 --> 01:18:32,529
in a lot of them got
onto like they felt that

2284
01:18:32,529 --> 01:18:34,120
an observation had to be

2285
01:18:34,120 --> 01:18:36,609
a conscious observation
and so forth.

2286
01:18:36,609 --> 01:18:38,800
And in engineering woven,

2287
01:18:38,800 --> 01:18:39,909
maybe it does have
to be conscious,

2288
01:18:39,909 --> 01:18:41,290
but then as everything
is conscious,

2289
01:18:41,290 --> 01:18:43,825
so life, you know,

2290
01:18:43,825 --> 01:18:45,070
like, I mean, that's what

2291
01:18:45,070 --> 01:18:46,329
is everything is an agent.

2292
01:18:46,329 --> 01:18:47,860
So everything
in some sense,

2293
01:18:47,860 --> 01:18:49,044
my guess is the way to

2294
01:18:49,044 --> 01:18:50,590
come out of this
is everything

2295
01:18:50,590 --> 01:18:54,969
has consciousness in some,

2296
01:18:54,969 --> 01:18:57,580
you know, since
level areas.

2297
01:18:57,580 --> 01:18:59,619
But what Penrose
is trying to do is

2298
01:18:59,619 --> 01:19:01,749
solve that observer
observed problem.

2299
01:19:01,749 --> 01:19:03,220
And I don't think
it succeeded.

2300
01:19:03,220 --> 01:19:04,569
It was fun, It
was interesting,

2301
01:19:04,569 --> 01:19:05,530
but how they got there,

2302
01:19:05,530 --> 01:19:08,319
I like his more
recent stuff.

2303
01:19:08,319 --> 01:19:09,430
There's another
guy I mentioned

2304
01:19:09,430 --> 01:19:13,224
that wrote a book
with Lee Smolin.

2305
01:19:13,224 --> 01:19:15,070
And he's an economist.

2306
01:19:15,070 --> 01:19:18,234
Economist. Yeah, I think
so. He's at Harvard.

2307
01:19:18,234 --> 01:19:22,039
It's getting Unger un GER

2308
01:19:22,920 --> 01:19:27,924
is firstName is a long,
complicated name.

2309
01:19:27,924 --> 01:19:30,460
But he and small and
wrote a book together

2310
01:19:30,460 --> 01:19:32,874
and Unger's part
of the book,

2311
01:19:32,874 --> 01:19:33,760
it was, so
they're trying to

2312
01:19:33,760 --> 01:19:34,690
figure out how can

2313
01:19:34,690 --> 01:19:37,329
the universe, this thing.

2314
01:19:37,329 --> 01:19:39,399
All the laws governing

2315
01:19:39,399 --> 01:19:40,540
the universe needs to

2316
01:19:40,540 --> 01:19:41,860
be time-space invariant.

2317
01:19:41,860 --> 01:19:43,104
Okay? You're a reversible.

2318
01:19:43,104 --> 01:19:44,979
That's one of the
things that physicists

2319
01:19:44,979 --> 01:19:46,959
are stuck with, like
0 times bigger.

2320
01:19:46,959 --> 01:19:48,490
But then of course
then the universe

2321
01:19:48,490 --> 01:19:50,140
is all of a sudden
the big bank.

2322
01:19:50,140 --> 01:19:51,474
I mean, there's a history.

2323
01:19:51,474 --> 01:19:52,899
You can't be a
real history.

2324
01:19:52,899 --> 01:19:55,240
But then they
want to generate

2325
01:19:55,240 --> 01:19:57,819
the whole universe out
of some set of laws.

2326
01:19:57,819 --> 01:19:59,890
Okay? Well, the
other possibility

2327
01:19:59,890 --> 01:20:02,095
is that the laws develop.

2328
01:20:02,095 --> 01:20:04,165
The laws change over time.

2329
01:20:04,165 --> 01:20:05,920
But then if you
want to get,

2330
01:20:05,920 --> 01:20:06,879
which I think a
lot of people

2331
01:20:06,879 --> 01:20:07,765
are going in
that direction.

2332
01:20:07,765 --> 01:20:09,519
But then if you
want it, they

2333
01:20:09,519 --> 01:20:11,109
wanted small and
couldn't get

2334
01:20:11,109 --> 01:20:13,059
rid of as he wanted a law,

2335
01:20:13,059 --> 01:20:14,920
degenerate the laws.

2336
01:20:14,920 --> 01:20:16,374
In others you want,
it's like the,

2337
01:20:16,374 --> 01:20:17,499
like the Game
of Life thing.

2338
01:20:17,499 --> 01:20:20,619
He wanted a one algorithm

2339
01:20:20,619 --> 01:20:22,825
that was going to
allow the universe

2340
01:20:22,825 --> 01:20:25,929
to generate a
whole series of

2341
01:20:25,929 --> 01:20:28,240
more and more
sophisticated laws and

2342
01:20:28,240 --> 01:20:30,309
particles and
whatever orders

2343
01:20:30,309 --> 01:20:31,180
and stuff like that.

2344
01:20:31,180 --> 01:20:34,464
But Unger takes
the other side

2345
01:20:34,464 --> 01:20:35,799
and which is close very

2346
01:20:35,799 --> 01:20:36,969
much along the lines

2347
01:20:36,969 --> 01:20:37,930
of what I'm talking about.

2348
01:20:37,930 --> 01:20:40,465
And he's very much
into pragmatism.

2349
01:20:40,465 --> 01:20:46,734
And he sees the universe
as a self didactic,

2350
01:20:46,734 --> 01:20:48,490
emergent system
and so forth.

2351
01:20:48,490 --> 01:20:50,049
So I think he's quite good

2352
01:20:50,049 --> 01:20:51,669
and he has some
other stuff

2353
01:20:51,669 --> 01:20:52,780
that screening and
he's a famous guy.

2354
01:20:52,780 --> 01:20:54,639
He's, he's from Brazil.

2355
01:20:54,639 --> 01:20:56,199
He's actually, I think
he's a professor

2356
01:20:56,199 --> 01:20:58,090
of law at Harvard,

2357
01:20:58,090 --> 01:21:00,400
but he's, he was
notorious and he got

2358
01:21:00,400 --> 01:21:01,839
tenure at 22 years old

2359
01:21:01,839 --> 01:21:02,590
or something like that.

2360
01:21:02,590 --> 01:21:04,419
He's a, he's a phenomenon.

2361
01:21:04,419 --> 01:21:06,249
But anyway, he had swollen

2362
01:21:06,249 --> 01:21:07,660
getting together
was very impressive

2363
01:21:07,660 --> 01:21:12,319
and I was very optimistic,
smallest trying.

2364
01:21:12,330 --> 01:21:15,610
But he did he didn't
quite connect

2365
01:21:15,610 --> 01:21:16,869
with younger and younger

2366
01:21:16,869 --> 01:21:17,919
didn't quite
connect with him,

2367
01:21:17,919 --> 01:21:21,294
but it was one of
the best attempts,

2368
01:21:21,294 --> 01:21:23,600
I think so far
that I've seen.

2369
01:21:24,510 --> 01:21:26,979
But I don't think
Penrose I don't know.

2370
01:21:26,979 --> 01:21:28,270
I talked to
Penrose few times

2371
01:21:28,270 --> 01:21:31,839
and I remember talking

2372
01:21:31,839 --> 01:21:33,985
to one time I was
in Cambridge.

2373
01:21:33,985 --> 01:21:35,619
And I said, if we could

2374
01:21:35,619 --> 01:21:37,330
just figure out
what energy is,

2375
01:21:37,330 --> 01:21:38,860
what the hell
is energy use?

2376
01:21:38,860 --> 01:21:41,419
We already know. We
already know it.

2377
01:21:41,419 --> 01:21:44,265
I don't think so.

2378
01:21:44,265 --> 01:21:46,980
Article energy
wave energy.

2379
01:21:46,980 --> 01:21:48,075
Energy, energy

2380
01:21:48,075 --> 01:21:49,560
conservation. Yeah.
I don't know.

2381
01:21:49,560 --> 01:21:52,919
Anyway, so he, he was
a bit set in his ways,

2382
01:21:52,919 --> 01:21:54,255
but he's got some
brilliant stuff.

2383
01:21:54,255 --> 01:21:56,805
I mean, he's just
a great mind.

2384
01:21:56,805 --> 01:21:59,100
So Terry, I probably
don't have time to

2385
01:21:59,100 --> 01:22:00,000
stick around and listen

2386
01:22:00,000 --> 01:22:00,960
to your answer to this.

2387
01:22:00,960 --> 01:22:03,045
But my follow-up
question was about,

2388
01:22:03,045 --> 01:22:05,594
so you're viewing
everything as being

2389
01:22:05,594 --> 01:22:07,124
about passing

2390
01:22:07,124 --> 01:22:09,840
thermodynamics
back-and-forth, right?

2391
01:22:09,840 --> 01:22:11,910
Sort of kind of viewing

2392
01:22:11,910 --> 01:22:13,814
the entire olive reality

2393
01:22:13,814 --> 01:22:16,005
through the filter
of thermodynamics.

2394
01:22:16,005 --> 01:22:18,699
Well, then I would suggest

2395
01:22:18,950 --> 01:22:21,689
the alternative
might be to look

2396
01:22:21,689 --> 01:22:24,699
at it through the
view of information.

2397
01:22:24,720 --> 01:22:28,960
Yeah. Holy information
movement thing.

2398
01:22:28,960 --> 01:22:32,440
Right? Yeah. Well, as
I gave right in there

2399
01:22:32,440 --> 01:22:35,860
with the with your life,

2400
01:22:35,860 --> 01:22:43,009
think there's a guy
named Peter corny.

2401
01:22:43,800 --> 01:22:45,850
Several books out. When is

2402
01:22:45,850 --> 01:22:46,990
the earliest books
on it called

2403
01:22:46,990 --> 01:22:49,914
a centered synergistic
hypothesis,

2404
01:22:49,914 --> 01:22:51,939
which is kinda
close to this.

2405
01:22:51,939 --> 01:22:55,269
And basically he sees

2406
01:22:55,269 --> 01:22:59,184
interactions in
terms of synergy.

2407
01:22:59,184 --> 01:23:01,269
And that's very
close to this idea

2408
01:23:01,269 --> 01:23:03,459
that an extra I
said in there

2409
01:23:03,459 --> 01:23:05,589
that they exchange bread

2410
01:23:05,589 --> 01:23:07,180
for fish and so it goes

2411
01:23:07,180 --> 01:23:11,319
exchange things are
actually productive.

2412
01:23:11,319 --> 01:23:12,400
When you,
whenever you find

2413
01:23:12,400 --> 01:23:14,079
a new exchange
relationship,

2414
01:23:14,079 --> 01:23:15,880
the new product can
exchange it that

2415
01:23:15,880 --> 01:23:19,615
you are able to
change his things.

2416
01:23:19,615 --> 01:23:24,534
And he has a lot of stuff.

2417
01:23:24,534 --> 01:23:27,339
What do you call it
Chapter 1,212.13.

2418
01:23:27,339 --> 01:23:28,210
I'll try to send it to

2419
01:23:28,210 --> 01:23:29,170
you five-year email giving

2420
01:23:29,170 --> 01:23:31,060
you put your e-mail in
the chat? Yeah, Sure.

2421
01:23:31,060 --> 01:23:32,979
Firstly down and
Peter cornea

2422
01:23:32,979 --> 01:23:34,690
and there's one of his
books in particular,

2423
01:23:34,690 --> 01:23:36,850
he talks about
information during one

2424
01:23:36,850 --> 01:23:40,164
of his soundbite comments

2425
01:23:40,164 --> 01:23:42,759
is if the information has

2426
01:23:42,759 --> 01:23:47,440
functional relevance
that I'm interested.

2427
01:23:47,440 --> 01:23:49,855
But if it's just
like information,

2428
01:23:49,855 --> 01:23:52,789
I don't know. Like
Shannon information.

2429
01:23:54,060 --> 01:23:57,640
So it's the whole
information.

2430
01:23:57,640 --> 01:23:59,739
Think there's
a lot of good

2431
01:23:59,739 --> 01:24:01,840
in it because it also
in Shannon if so,

2432
01:24:01,840 --> 01:24:03,535
it's about communications
and that's

2433
01:24:03,535 --> 01:24:05,890
a big part is
exchanged thing.

2434
01:24:05,890 --> 01:24:08,049
But the exchange
paradigm to

2435
01:24:08,049 --> 01:24:10,240
me is really,
really important.

2436
01:24:10,240 --> 01:24:12,670
And that's why it's

2437
01:24:12,670 --> 01:24:15,444
different from
a hits B thing.

2438
01:24:15,444 --> 01:24:16,344
Everything,

2439
01:24:16,344 --> 01:24:17,994
everything is going
as an exchange.

2440
01:24:17,994 --> 01:24:19,689
You can see I'm exchanging
the thermodynamic,

2441
01:24:19,689 --> 01:24:20,169
but they're

2442
01:24:20,169 --> 01:24:22,044
exchanging and they're
not exchanging

2443
01:24:22,044 --> 01:24:24,850
energy. I don't
want to see you.

2444
01:24:24,850 --> 01:24:26,500
They're exchanging
something like that.

2445
01:24:26,500 --> 01:24:30,655
But it gets more as
you go higher up.

2446
01:24:30,655 --> 01:24:32,019
And like I said,

2447
01:24:32,019 --> 01:24:35,009
like my systems worldview
makes it attempted.

2448
01:24:35,009 --> 01:24:36,490
Talk about some
of that stuff.

2449
01:24:36,490 --> 01:24:37,660
Like okay, well
we, I think we

2450
01:24:37,660 --> 01:24:39,280
have agents and they are
doing this thing and

2451
01:24:39,280 --> 01:24:40,389
there are
metabolic engines

2452
01:24:40,389 --> 01:24:42,639
and some of us are
eating each other.

2453
01:24:42,639 --> 01:24:45,205
Like, what are we
really doing here?

2454
01:24:45,205 --> 01:24:47,110
So I tried to put

2455
01:24:47,110 --> 01:24:48,159
that picture
together and a lot

2456
01:24:48,159 --> 01:24:49,404
of it in ecology.

2457
01:24:49,404 --> 01:24:52,030
Ecology is systems theory,

2458
01:24:52,030 --> 01:24:53,829
of course, in spades.

2459
01:24:53,829 --> 01:24:55,360
And there's a couple

2460
01:24:55,360 --> 01:24:56,724
of guys I can't
rename rows and

2461
01:24:56,724 --> 01:24:58,090
a couple of other
guys have tried to do

2462
01:24:58,090 --> 01:25:01,450
the energy thing
in ecosystems.

2463
01:25:01,450 --> 01:25:03,354
I think all that's good.

2464
01:25:03,354 --> 01:25:05,920
And I think the guys
at the deep sea vents.

2465
01:25:05,920 --> 01:25:08,095
Are the best.
There's nothing.

2466
01:25:08,095 --> 01:25:10,480
I went to a conference
or they're looking at

2467
01:25:10,480 --> 01:25:13,210
what's called
chemo bionics.

2468
01:25:13,210 --> 01:25:14,935
Okay. Can you
progress when she

2469
01:25:14,935 --> 01:25:16,450
meets chemical garden?

2470
01:25:16,450 --> 01:25:18,819
And for them,
they want to see,

2471
01:25:18,819 --> 01:25:21,715
they're interested in
the chemical evolution.

2472
01:25:21,715 --> 01:25:25,284
They want to see life
as chemically of all.

2473
01:25:25,284 --> 01:25:28,360
The bad guys in that
are the people who

2474
01:25:28,360 --> 01:25:30,670
want it all to
be RNA or RNA.

2475
01:25:30,670 --> 01:25:31,899
Then it starts
repeating and

2476
01:25:31,899 --> 01:25:33,189
it's all Darwinian
selection.

2477
01:25:33,189 --> 01:25:36,429
And they're going
like they say to me,

2478
01:25:36,429 --> 01:25:39,489
it's like RNA and DNA

2479
01:25:39,489 --> 01:25:43,170
are like putting
GPS on your car.

2480
01:25:43,170 --> 01:25:45,385
You need an engine first.

2481
01:25:45,385 --> 01:25:46,569
Their engine
firstly, I want

2482
01:25:46,569 --> 01:25:47,875
to see where
the engine is.

2483
01:25:47,875 --> 01:25:50,229
They're all about the
world in terms of

2484
01:25:50,229 --> 01:25:52,900
engines and engines being

2485
01:25:52,900 --> 01:25:54,609
productive
engines do thinks

2486
01:25:54,609 --> 01:25:56,080
and they changed the order

2487
01:25:56,080 --> 01:25:57,760
they produce work

2488
01:25:57,760 --> 01:25:59,679
and the protection
of that work.

2489
01:25:59,679 --> 01:26:02,350
They changed the
organization of reality.

2490
01:26:02,350 --> 01:26:04,299
This, all of this stuff at

2491
01:26:04,299 --> 01:26:06,519
the people at the
Santa Fe Institute

2492
01:26:06,519 --> 01:26:07,989
about complexity and
stuff like that.

2493
01:26:07,989 --> 01:26:09,760
I think a complexity
is just a euphemism

2494
01:26:09,760 --> 01:26:11,844
for, for organization.

2495
01:26:11,844 --> 01:26:15,024
And organization
is crucial

2496
01:26:15,024 --> 01:26:16,180
in Leibniz actually has

2497
01:26:16,180 --> 01:26:17,814
a bunch of people
talking about that now.

2498
01:26:17,814 --> 01:26:22,479
And that book by
th 0 go with them,

2499
01:26:22,479 --> 01:26:24,429
does yet very,
very interesting.

2500
01:26:24,429 --> 01:26:25,900
He loses it in a
couple of places,

2501
01:26:25,900 --> 01:26:28,719
but his big pushes for

2502
01:26:28,719 --> 01:26:31,570
what he calls structural
causality is Tracy,

2503
01:26:31,570 --> 01:26:33,369
the net thing in this,

2504
01:26:33,369 --> 01:26:36,459
on this exchanges is

2505
01:26:36,459 --> 01:26:39,039
there's a structural
cause it comes as

2506
01:26:39,039 --> 01:26:40,660
structural result of

2507
01:26:40,660 --> 01:26:45,294
those interchanges.
Thank you, Terry.

2508
01:26:45,294 --> 01:26:46,284
I have to get going.

2509
01:26:46,284 --> 01:26:51,399
I want to I want
to echo Richards.

2510
01:26:51,399 --> 01:26:53,259
Thankfulness to you.

2511
01:26:53,259 --> 01:26:55,404
Your iStep theories
over the years has

2512
01:26:55,404 --> 01:26:56,829
been a big part

2513
01:26:56,829 --> 01:26:58,450
of my intellectual
development.

2514
01:26:58,450 --> 01:27:00,100
So it's been great

2515
01:27:00,100 --> 01:27:02,154
having you doing
that over the years,

2516
01:27:02,154 --> 01:27:03,400
terry, and I hope that

2517
01:27:03,400 --> 01:27:05,034
you know how much
it was appreciated.

2518
01:27:05,034 --> 01:27:06,220
I did I talked to one

2519
01:27:06,220 --> 01:27:07,540
guy about it as a
friend of mine.

2520
01:27:07,540 --> 01:27:09,734
We were talking about I

2521
01:27:09,734 --> 01:27:11,889
said I think it was
just a phenomenon.

2522
01:27:11,889 --> 01:27:13,600
I think it's just
a phenomenon.

2523
01:27:13,600 --> 01:27:15,039
There's just something
that happened in port.

2524
01:27:15,039 --> 01:27:17,290
It was very cool.
Yeah, exactly.

2525
01:27:17,290 --> 01:27:18,549
It was one of
the cool things

2526
01:27:18,549 --> 01:27:19,630
that was going
on in Portland.

2527
01:27:19,630 --> 01:27:21,640
Exactly. Alright,
thanks Terry.

2528
01:27:21,640 --> 01:27:26,230
I'll say, hey, if
you're sitting,

2529
01:27:26,230 --> 01:27:27,684
you're making you're
making Heather

2530
01:27:27,684 --> 01:27:28,960
jealous when
you're talking

2531
01:27:28,960 --> 01:27:31,250
about the series because
she's too young.

2532
01:27:31,680 --> 01:27:34,869
Yeah. Thank you for the
talk. I got to run.

2533
01:27:34,869 --> 01:27:37,749
Okay. Thanks a lot.

2534
01:27:37,749 --> 01:27:39,849
Alright. You
have a question.

2535
01:27:39,849 --> 01:27:41,214
Are you going to display?

2536
01:27:41,214 --> 01:27:43,315
Just wanted to
say thank you.

2537
01:27:43,315 --> 01:27:45,099
Fundamentally, you know,

2538
01:27:45,099 --> 01:27:48,819
the systems you've
been dealing with for

2539
01:27:48,819 --> 01:27:51,820
the last four or
five decades really

2540
01:27:51,820 --> 01:27:55,479
is quite applicable
to my field,

2541
01:27:55,479 --> 01:27:57,189
which is earthquake
engineering,

2542
01:27:57,189 --> 01:28:00,289
earthquake damage
assessment.

2543
01:28:00,390 --> 01:28:02,859
How are we going to
deal with this thing?

2544
01:28:02,859 --> 01:28:05,230
You know, that one
is going to happen,

2545
01:28:05,230 --> 01:28:07,869
but when it happens,
we don't know what,

2546
01:28:07,869 --> 01:28:09,190
you know which one of

2547
01:28:09,190 --> 01:28:10,929
these thousands
of buildings is.

2548
01:28:10,929 --> 01:28:11,410
You've got to get

2549
01:28:11,410 --> 01:28:13,030
demolished and so
on and so forth.

2550
01:28:13,030 --> 01:28:16,119
So very fertile field.

2551
01:28:16,119 --> 01:28:17,650
Are you in an
engineering department,

2552
01:28:17,650 --> 01:28:19,660
are you in civil
engineering?

2553
01:28:19,660 --> 01:28:20,395
Is truck?

2554
01:28:20,395 --> 01:28:23,215
Yeah. Yeah.

2555
01:28:23,215 --> 01:28:25,119
We're we're kinda
colleagues.

2556
01:28:25,119 --> 01:28:26,619
I'm over in the
geology department

2557
01:28:26,619 --> 01:28:27,820
and some of

2558
01:28:27,820 --> 01:28:30,205
my colleagues worked
together quite a bit.

2559
01:28:30,205 --> 01:28:31,375
Yeah.

2560
01:28:31,375 --> 01:28:32,529
Earthquake engineering,

2561
01:28:32,529 --> 01:28:34,150
geotechnical
engineering, me.

2562
01:28:34,150 --> 01:28:37,719
Yeah. I was the founding
department head

2563
01:28:37,719 --> 01:28:39,325
or founding

2564
01:28:39,325 --> 01:28:41,964
several degenerating
for 24 years.

2565
01:28:41,964 --> 01:28:43,795
But anyway,
aside from that,

2566
01:28:43,795 --> 01:28:47,530
Yeah. Goes really nice.

2567
01:28:47,530 --> 01:28:49,539
Connection to
systems science

2568
01:28:49,539 --> 01:28:52,255
goes back to early 70s.

2569
01:28:52,255 --> 01:28:54,249
Alright, thanks
again guys.

2570
01:28:54,249 --> 01:28:57,925
Bye. Alright. Stay
well. Thank you.

2571
01:28:57,925 --> 01:29:00,709
Okay. Thank you. Yes.